Latest / Books4Guys / How Reading Makes You a Better Leader | Leadership Books That Changed Everything with Kacy Maxwell

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How Reading Makes You a Better Leader | Leadership Books That Changed Everything with Kacy Maxwell · Books4Guys

• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, work work out of out of downtown Franklin.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um I I'm I'm hybrid, so sometimes I'm I'm here at my home office, sometimes I'm um down there.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, just south of the city.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I saw you worked at uh Ramsey Solutions for a long time.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I figured you were probably somewhere in either Brentwood or Franklin or somewhere close down there to where they're at.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, when I was working there, we started, we we actually worked, um, the office was across from the mall in Cool Springs, which was Franklin.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: They moved and built this huge facility down in in Berry Hill.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: And then everybody from then on started uh moving to Spring Hill, which is this, it's this up-and-coming uh area down there.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, it's uh it's far from the city.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like if you live in the city and you're going to Spring Hill, you're you're on the road for for a while.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I kind of I kind of lucked out just kind of being being in between.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: No, that's awesome, man.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I I've done my fair share of of Dave Ramsey podcast and listening to him.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I haven't always lived here.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: I've been here about three years now, but as uh when I moved here, the amount of people that I've met that have worked there at some point in their careers is just insane.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: Because I mean they're just one of the largest companies in the area.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: So I just never realized like how many people I'd run into.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: They're like, Yeah, I've worked there or I have worked there before.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, this is crazy.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, when I started there, it was about five, five twenty-five.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: And when I left, it was just over a thousand.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: And so I mean, just the growth and the trajectory and yeah, it it is.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: There's a uh a lot of people are moving here for a job at Ramsey, uh, and then just stay here.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: But I mean, I feel like the whole world is moving here.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: Where where did you say you moved from?
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: So from Atlanta.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: Atlanta.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: So from Atlanta.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I know all about commutes and traffic and all of that.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, it's kind of funny.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes people hear they'll say something about, you know, oh, it's gonna take 20 minutes.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, well, that's really not that bad.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: Did it take 20 minutes to walk to your car in Atlanta?
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: I just from your house.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: I the Atlanta's the one place where I just I just hate going.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: I I I used to have uh I used to work for a company in Atlanta and I would have to go down there a couple times a year.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: And every time I was like, the drive down there wasn't bad, but just once you get into the city, it's doesn't matter what time of day, what time of night, you are you are sitting in stopped traffic for no reason.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: You're like, what are we doing here?
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're on the interstate, you're like, there's eight lanes.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: Why are we stuck?
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: How's this possible?
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: This shouldn't be possible with this many lanes.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: So it's pretty crazy.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's a beautiful city.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: The out, you know, there's a lot of greenery.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: It just and the math never adds up.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: You're like, there's so much beauty here.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: I see a bunch of trees, like, where are all these people coming from?
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: And uh no, it's a unique place.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'll be there in a in a few weeks.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I I enjoy my quarterly visits and uh get togethers with old friends, but I uh I'm glad to be in Nashville, man.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: Very happy to be here.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: And um, man, it's awesome connecting with with people like yourself.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: I you know, I live on LinkedIn, and most of the people I talk with are not located here, but uh we got connected through there, and uh I think you saw some of the Books for Guys stuff, and then um, man, you sent me some cool things you're doing.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: I've got to pull up here.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: You're you're drawn to Lead Substack, where you've been talking about books that have had an impact on you and have helped shape your leadership.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: And just from a Books for Guys standpoint, I was like, dude, this is exactly like what I want to talk about because I want people to, I don't know, just be more encouraged as men to talk about books they're reading, talk about things that are impacting their lives.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, some of the episodes I've talked about how Books for Guys was born.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: It was a a work meeting I was having, and and this leader of mine, we we would always talk about sports, uh, and then we would talk about books that we were reading, and and a lot of them were uh fiction leadership style books.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember him being like, Chris, you know, like the ladies have all these wine and book clubs and they talk about books all the time.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: And he's like, we just as men don't talk about it enough, and we don't share enough of just things that are helping us grow and become better guys or better leaders.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, you know, hence Books for Guys has been born and we're doing a lot of cool things with it, and specifically trying to encourage young guys to start that journey a little bit early.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: But um, Casey, man, talk a little bit about your career.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you you've got a podcast you do, you've been in marketing, you're you're in leadership, and now you're putting out, you know, books that have meant a lot to you and that have that have helped shape your career and growth.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: But but what is your story?
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: What where did it begin?
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: Where are you at now?
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: And what's really encouraged you to share more about the impact that some of these books are having on you?
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um it's great to it's great to connect.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: I've I've been on LinkedIn for a number of years, met a ton of people, and and a lot of them, as you say, uh don't live around me.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's a lot of Zoom calls and phone calls and those types of interactions, but it's it's fun when you actually get to uh be around people and find people that are in your in your area.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I guess my story, I I started, kind of fell into business.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I would say uh at times I would call myself a reluctant executive, uh, where I I always kind of lived in the creative space growing up.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: I I liked drawing, I liked theater.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I kind of went to college to figure out something to do uh that wasn't creative, uh, but nothing seemed to be fun, nothing seemed to be enjoyable.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: And so uh eventually I kind of landed on marketing because I was like, there's something in marketing that has a hint of creativity, right?
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: I might have been uh persuaded to do that because I watched Mad Men and I thought, oh man, that looks super creative, which there is some aspects of that in marketing, but there's a lot uh there's a lot that isn't.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, there are data and numbers and presentations and meetings, and there's there's a lot of those things that they didn't show as much in that TV show.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I've just I've been in marketing for 18 years.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I've led a bunch of teams.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: And over that time, uh, the idea of leadership continued to grow.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, one, I was gifted with uh a number of really good, and I would say gifted with some really bad leaders.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I realized as I grew in my leadership journey, it was something that was uh not really taught.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like you're good at something and you get promoted, and then you're just given people to lead.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: And honestly, you just kind of fumble your way through it.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and it wasn't until uh at one point in my career, um, I worked at an organization that was really intentional about leaning in and growing, growing leaders.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and a lot of that consisted of of book studies.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I I had started getting into uh listening to podcasts and going to conferences, and those were always good, but those are kind of like short-term hits, right?
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: You you go and you have this experience and you're like, yeah, I'm gonna change, and then you leave and you forget about it.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: But there was something about books, but not just books themselves, but books, once you interact with those, sit with them, discuss them, just meditate on them, that they had the biggest impact on my journey.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so uh as I was thinking of like, I had started posting uh some of my drawings about leadership and leadership concepts, and started developing uh drawn to lead and realized, man, this is this is an opportunity to kind of take the books that have been gifted to me and that have really had a major impact on me, and take, you know, this sort of creativity that I have and this passion for helping other leaders and uh put them together.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: So that's where drawn to leave sort of came from.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I love that.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: I was thinking of that exact thing as I was kind of doing some prep work for our conversation.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: I was thinking about that too.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, there's never been just more information out there to learn from.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: So, but but a lot of it's you know, quick hits on Instagram, YouTube, a LinkedIn post, like there's a lot of things you can take away quickly on leadership.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: But I was thinking the exact same thing.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, man, I see a lot of that, but it doesn't stick with me like it does when I read a book in long form and I'm actually like super focused and dialed in.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I was sitting there thinking, like, every single thing I've taken that I've applied for myself, whether that be for leadership or life, whatever growth I'm going through, it's like it I can always point back to a book.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: I can't really point back to an Instagram clip or a LinkedIn post or YouTube video.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: And it's kind of interesting how that how that goes because there's a lot of it out there and a lot of it you could take away, but for some reason, it doesn't seem to stick with me personally.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's the books.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: And you said the exact same thing, essentially, like, hey, I, you know, you see all this stuff, but it was books that I've taken the most from and been able to really apply and and remember and and have some lesson about it.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I think that can be shared enough because a lot of people say, I don't have time to read, I you know, I can go get it over here.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, you can, but there's something about books that we I don't know, maybe it's because you you have to truly focus and you're absorbing what your eyes are seeing.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, and it may just be a sentence, it may be a chapter that sticks with you, some a lot, maybe may not, but it's uh I just as you were talking about that, I was like, that's the exact same thought I was having.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, I there's so many places I get information from, but it's the books that I have that I reread and and recommend to other people.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like those are the things that have built me up the most.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: I've just I've found that things that slow you down are the ones that end up having the most impact on you.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: Instagram posts, even even podcasts.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_01: I listen to podcasts when I drive to and from work.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: I listen when I'm, you know, walking my dog.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm usually doing something else when I'm I'm uh listening to a podcast.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but when I sit with a book, I literally have to sit and slow down.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm not the fastest reader.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'm not like skimming these things really, really fast.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: I have to sit with them.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: And the longer I sit with something, the more it it tends to stick.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: But honestly, uh, you know, you can see behind me, I've got a bunch of books and there's a bunch of books down here.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: There are so many books on here that I either didn't finish uh or I've forgotten 95% or 100% of even even what I read.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: And as I as I thought through drawing the lead and leaning in there, um, part of it was uh how do we take these books and and get actionable insights from them?
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: Cause I think I went through a season where I I would say I was more of a collector of books.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: So I would, I would hear somebody say a book and I'm like, oh, and I would get it, and I'm like, I'm gonna read it, and I'd throw it on the shelf and then I would just never read it.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: Or I would, I would read it really fast, or I would listen to the audiobook or something just to almost say that I did it.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like, have you read this book?
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I totally read it.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so that author's so, you know.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so it it wasn't something that was actually uh impacting me or something that was making me a better leader.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: But I found when I would get into these book studies uh with these other people, and we would just talk through them.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: And and again, we would all read the books on our own.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: And then you come in and you sit down and somebody's facilitating, someone's asking questions.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_01: But I I realized that hearing the different perspectives of other people of how not only the uh the book impacted them, but how they have seen it play out in their journey made it stick so much more.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: And it made it go, oh, I understand that principle or that concept better because you've taken something and you've put it in a different medium, or you've like, even though you know authors will give you 37 examples in in their book to make a point, sometimes you need somebody to make it more relevant to you, right?
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: To say something like, you can give me an example of what happened at Coke or at Apple, and great, I get that.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: But when somebody says, this is what happened to me in my work, for some reason it just makes it more, more real and more and more tangible.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: So there, there's part of it I'm I'm trying to not only just highlight some good books, because I think reading, I I'm I'm a hundred percent in in the camp with you.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like everybody should be reading more.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: But there's something of taking that next step to go deeper with the book, to discuss, to write, to do something with it to really make it stick so that it can it can help you in your journey.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: I love this because yeah, I was thinking of this too.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: You were talking about you've been blessed to have good leaders and also probably blessed to have some bad ones that you can kind of learn, hey, what what you don't like.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: Now sitting here thinking, there's there's three or four leaders that come to mind, and and I don't know if it's because they did this or not, but they did have our team read a book, and we all came afterwards and and discussed it.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_00: And those are books I've reread, and those are leaders that I've, if anyone ever asked, you know, of character traits of a good leader, those are the ones I point to.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: And again, I don't know if it's specifically because of the book, there were other things they did too that had a positive impact on me.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I was thinking about the ones that that were a little more negative, like they never had us read a book, they never, you know, talked about how to be a good leader, how to grow.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: It was more just like, hey, do this, and uh, if you don't, you know, we're gonna have problems.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: But the ones that really invested in me and our team, it was a big deal for for them to take time and have us dive in and then discuss, like you said, each of us had a little bit of a different perspective, which was very fascinating because as I reread some of these books, I was like, oh, I see why they took this from it.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm actually, I see, I see it now better as well.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: And it just, man, the it's just the critical thinking.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: What it what it opens you up to pause and just think through on some things.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, man, there is not a better feeling than than than pausing.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: And we we're all so fast to have an opinion.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: We're all so fast to try and make a decision.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: And and thankfully, I've kind of noticed this in my life a lot over the last probably two years of just pausing and and saying things like, I don't know, I need more information, or, you know, let me think of what they might be thinking as they're talking to me.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what is what are they trying to portray?
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: What are their thoughts on the issue before I respond?
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: Let me see if I can better understand their point of view.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: And there's times I'm like, oh, that makes sense.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: Let me change my approach or change what I'm about to say next, because now that I've thought this through, I can see better of how this communication is going to be more positive than negative because of me taking a pause.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: It just but it reading is what's created that, the the pause, and it's led to better conversations and it's led to more growth.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: And man, I just I love that because it's it's something I've in my reading journey.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: I've as I look back, these are some of the things that I highlight as positives from it.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: And you're hitting all the nails on the head of just the things that I've gone through too.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just but we all it's it's fun to talk to people who go through that journey and you're like, yeah, isn't that so cool?
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like it happens to everyone who really is intentional about it.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I wonder, you know, you mentioned your leaders that did did book studies with you.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: One of the one of the reasons that I love doing book studies at my work um is because not because reading a book makes you smarter or better, um, but there's two things I think it does.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: One, um, it gives you a common uh lexicon, right?
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: It gives you a common set of things that you can talk about, even a framework that kind of takes what's going on at work and takes it outside of that situation.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: So one of the one of the the books that is is extremely impactful to me is is Ideal team player by Patrick Luncioni.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: And it talks about the the sort of three aspects of an ideal team player.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I love taking my team through that.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_01: One, because it kind of takes out uh opinions, right?
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: Or helps form opinions.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_01: So you're like, hey, is this guy uh a a good team player?
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: And they're kind of like, well, you know, yeah, he seems nice and yeah, like I give him stuff to do and he does it.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: And so they're they're just kind of putting feelings around it, like, yeah, here's a here's some thoughts.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: But the the framework of that is humble, hungry, smart.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: Is he is he humble?
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: Does he does he focus on himself all the time?
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: Is he only trying to do stuff for him, or is he thinking about the team?
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: Uh is he is he humble or is he hungry?
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: Is he really wanting to get out there and get things done?
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: Or are you constantly having to check in and going, like, are you doing your job?
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: And then smart is like people smarts.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: Does he understand how to read the room?
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: Is he good in those situations?
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: And so asking him, how where does he fall in humble, hungry, smart?
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_01: All of a sudden, it changes the way you can have a conversation just around that topic because we've both read this book, we've both discussed this book and how it fits.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: And so it gives us this sort of like framework, rubric, whatever to have these conversations.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: So that's that's one reason why I really love books.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: The second is because when you are reading it, you are thinking about it.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: So reading doesn't necessarily make you a good leader.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, reading leadership books is does not make you a great leader.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: However, the more time I spend reading books, creating content for drawn to lead, the more that I'm thinking about the type of leader that I am.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: And so that makes me more intentional when I, when I go and and into my leadership, you know, role, right?
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: And so some of it is it's just the intentionality of doing it and reading the book and discussing it that will m make you at least a more thoughtful leader, right?
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: Versus falling into just old patterns and doing, doing, you know, what you do or what you think in the moment this is this is the right thing.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's a little bit of that in intentionality.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: So those two, those two things I think are really powerful reasons to read books with your team.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and and to take that a step further, Casey, the the being curious and and continuous learning.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, you know, I think if some of maybe some of these leaders that aren't so great, you know, and I don't again, I don't know if they're reading books or not, but I could see where if you're not and you're not continuously challenging yourself or challenging the way you lead um and trying to be better, then you are gonna get stuck and and and and maybe as things progress, you're not going to.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's that's not a good pattern to be in.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: But if you are continuously reading and learning, you know, whether that be podcasts, books, you're continuously kind of reshaping your thought process and you're continuously getting better, or you know, and you want to get better.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, it's a process, but at least you're trying.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: So it's really fun to, I mean, time goes by so fast, man.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's so intriguing to look back over like a six, 12 month, or two years and just be like, man, what I did then, I definitely wouldn't do now because of this.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I've learned more, I've done this, or my approach then, like, man, how dumb was I?
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so glad that I've changed my approach with this and I can see a more positive, uh, you know, positive direction with people that I'm working with and leading now that I've, you know, learned how to do this a little bit better.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: But it but it comes back to like wanting to be curious and pushing yourself to learn and want to be better.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it's just that's that's a big part of it that I love to discuss with people is just that continuous curiosity and uh that continuous drive to want to be better.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because I I had a guy on a sports guy and he was talking about this.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: He's accomplished so much.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, man, like what?
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: You know, do you ever look back and just be like, wow, what I've done all this?
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: And he's like, Yeah, I do, but the goalpost is always moving because once you get somewhere, you you either stay there and it starts to go backwards, or or you move the goalpost further and you try to get better and expand what you can do and and what you want to accomplish.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: So he's like, it's this healthy line of being very um content and grateful for what you've done, but also continuing to pursue and maximizing your life.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: You only got one life, it's very short, time goes by fast.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_00: So you gotta, you know, you want to accomplish and do all the things that you want to do.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I just love that conversation of curiosity and continuous learning too, because it just drives you to just be a better human, be a better person.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: And uh just so much good can come from that approach of not acting like, you know, hey, I know it all, been there, done that, you know, and you just stop.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um because when you meet those people, you kind of you kind of see it.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: You're like, man, you're you it's not good.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's funny, that was one of the reasons that that kept me from leaning into drawn to lead early.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the the idea that uh I would come off as I think I have it all figured out, right?
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: That that if you're gonna talk about leadership, then obviously you think that you're a really good leader, right?
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: You must think that you've got all All of this stuff figured out.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, I know that I am not the best leader.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: I know because when I read these books and I see what I want to push toward, I realize that I miss the mark on a, on a daily basis.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: And so I've I've tried to approach this from a exactly what you're talking about, that sort of curiosity of like, I want to know how I can get better.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not sharing this to say, hey, I've reached this pinnacle, right?
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: I've reached this summit.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: You can too if you follow, follow my advice.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: That's it's kind of another reason why I went this direction with these books, is like, I like rereading these books because they help put these ideas back into my head that I need to continually tune up.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: That that is that's the reason that I'm spending so much time because depending on where you are in your life, I think you kind of said this earlier.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: You can interact with a book at this season and then you can interact with it in this season, and you can, it will be completely different.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's a completely different book.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so one of the things, one of the things that uh I've tried to do and kind of make it a little bit more unique is you talk about being curious and and how how do you make it stick.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: One of the things I I started leaning into was sketchnoting.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: And sketchnoting, it it starts as a way just it kind of started as a way to take notes.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: So you'd go to a conference and so you would translate what the speaker was saying into images, sketches, right?
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_01: As I started doing research on that, I found that retention rates uh of somebody who sketchnotes a talk are like 30% higher because you're using multiple points of the brain, right?
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_01: You're you're listening and you're translating words to words in your mind.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: So even if you take notes, your your uh your recall goes up, which is great because you're you're doing a separate action, right?
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: You've got your motor skills.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_01: But by translating words into pictures, you increase your recall.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: So part of the reason why I started leaning into this drawing is yes, I like to draw, yes, I like to be creative, but I found that it actually helps me remember it better.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_01: And what I found is then when I shared those on LinkedIn, kind of that's where I started before I created drawn to lead.com, I realized that those images helped distill super complicated concepts into really simple, approachable ideas that would allow bigger conversations.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so Drawn to Lead has kind of become this way for me to share the books that have been super impactful for me, revisit the books that have been super impactful for me, and then try and distill those books down into simple sketches and principles that people can take and leave.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: So the what the next 12 months is supposed to look like on Drawn to Lead is each month I'm I'm choosing a different book and I am distilling that down into a single principle.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: Now, the books that I'm choosing, some are like popular leadership books.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: Some you would say that's not a leadership book.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: But I feel like it highlights a principle that every leader should should really understand and try to incorporate in their in their leadership.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'm trying to do that in a way that I have text.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_01: I've got, I'm recording some book studies.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_01: So I've got some people that are gonna get together and talk about these books and we're gonna record these.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I've also adding in sketchnotes where people uh so that's got visuals and you're gonna be able to like fill in the blank.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_01: So as you go through the book, you could fill in some of some of the answers.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: And then there's a journaling component because I want people to sit with these books longer.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_01: Because again, when you use different parts of your brain, not just reading, not just seeing, not just listening, if when you use a lot of those, the recall is significantly higher and you are more likely to actually put this into practice.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_01: So that's kind of how all of this stuff slowly flowed together to create where where drawn to lead is is headed.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_00: Man, I love your just your process behind this, your excitement and just the way you're going about it.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: Journaling, we could talk about a whole nother episode.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: I had uh Jedediah Collins, he's a former NFL player on, and he he talks about journaling a lot.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: And actually, a lot of people reached out to me after that episode and was like, hey, I'm gonna start journaling more.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: Seems very important.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, he actually has a book out now where he like journaled throughout an entire season, so it's a whole different type of sports book.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just crazy, just his thoughts, you know, bad days, good days, but something you can go back to and uh see just what you took away from certain things at certain times.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: But I love too, I love your approach because it's really cool.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: I've had a lot of leaders who have written different types of leadership or business books on here, and it is really cool that they're all, especially these like really successful ones, they have this same approach of like, hey, they're almost funny about it.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_00: They're like, hey, I don't know as much as you as I as you think I do.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I love hearing them admit it.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_00: They're like, hey, we're I'm really just sharing like what's worked for me and what I've studied from other leaders, and I'm you know putting this together to help people, but like I'm consistently learning, like, and a lot of them have coaches too.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they don't, they're not their own coach.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: They're like, hey, I have other people that help me in all areas of my life because I'm trying to get better, and I'm not I'm not the smartest one in the room where I you know I have to be.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so it's cool hearing them admit that.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_00: They're like, Yeah, I'm glad this resonated with you.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um still learning, you know.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not I'm not the know-all be-all here on this subject.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm continuously if I write a book in five more years, I hope it's improved from the one that's you know a bestseller right now, you know, and I love that approach.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_00: And again, I love your approach and the way you're building this out to share, like, hey, I'm I'm learning on the go with everyone else that's gonna go through this with me.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think that's a great leadership trait and principle.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and Casey, we'll have your website in the notes and everything so people can follow along or join however they can.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, as we kind of finish up this conversation, you know, don't share all of them, but like what are some uh maybe a handful of books that have meant a lot to you and have helped shape the way you lead, you know, maybe some recent ones that have, you know, really sat well with you.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_01: So I uh I'm keeping kind of the 12 a little under wraps.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_01: I'm actually announcing uh the first three next week.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so I I can I'm assuming this will go out after that, after that announcement.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_01: But so the first one, uh the first one is Start with Why uh from Simon Sinek, um, which talks about and the principle that I'm gonna be focusing on then is purpose.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like what is your purpose as a leader?
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_01: Uh the second extremely well-known seven habits of of highly effective people, which is right there.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and the the funny thing is, is I'm not talking anything about the habits.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the the uh the principle is character.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_01: The first part of that book sets the whole premise for who you are gonna be as a person.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_01: And that is, are you gonna be led by your character or are you gonna be led by your personality?
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so there are we talk a lot about people who are really good leaders and they're the ones that can speak very well and they can give up and give speeches, and they're good at presentation, the like all this stuff that makes up your personality.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: But if your character is flawed and not where it needs to be, and you're doing it for the wrong reasons, like the type of leader, you're just nobody's gonna want to follow you.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and then the third one is kind of the first book that's a little outside from a leadership perspective.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and it is uh originals by Adam Grant.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_01: And it it's about like the principle is creativity.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_01: And the what I mean by that is not like going out and drawing and doing all of these sort of like art or design related things.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's about being creative in how you approach that leadership, right?
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of it is curiosity, just asking yourself the question could this be different?
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_01: Could this be better?
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_01: How, how could we improve that, right?
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_01: There's a there's a creativity there that people don't don't often see.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: So those are the first three books that that I'm gonna be leaning into.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and then one that uh I mean, everyone's been talking about it.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and normally I'm like, ah, it's a popular book.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: I don't, you know, but Theo of Golden, have you read it yet?
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_00: I have not read it yet.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_00: I've heard it multiple times, but I have not I have not picked it up yet.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_01: So it uh I I won't ruin anything uh from it, but there are I almost want to add it to my list, and maybe it'll be like a future one because I think there are key things of the way this Theo guy operates that I just want to incorporate in in my everyday life.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I will say there was a couple times, so I actually listened to that one.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: I was driving into work and there's this one scene between him and another person.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like weeping in my car driving into driving into the office just because, not because it was sad, but just because I one, I thought it was beautiful, but I was like, if I could have that type of impact on somebody else one day, that's that's my North Star.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's my that's my success.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_01: And so if you do read it, again, I the guy who reads it on uh I listened to it on Spotify, it's it's really good.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_01: He does he does a really good job.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_01: So those are those are some some solid books um that I think you should read.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_00: No, great recommendations.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_00: And Casey, man, we're gonna have to.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_00: I I love this conversation we've had, and I love everything you've said.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I think a lot of people are hopefully it encourages them to to follow along with what you're doing or to you know read more books in general.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_00: But I'll be excited.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna have to do another episode at some point as you get, you know, six, nine, twelve months into this thing, and just kind of kind of rehash maybe some of the things you've learned along the way.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_00: What are some things people have shared?
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_00: You know, how did certain messages sit?
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_00: You know, what what were some of the unexpected things you building this out?
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_00: You know, what what were some takeaways?
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm really I'm looking for, I'm gonna mark my calendar to to make sure we do another episode as you get along through this, because I'd be really curious just to hear the impact.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_00: I know no doubt there will be, but it'll be really cool just to hear the things that you've experienced and and just some of the stuff you've you've been building along the way.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because I'm sure there'll be things that are unexpected in good ways.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: And it'll be really cool to hear you talk about that.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_00: But Casey, man, keep keep doing keep doing what you're doing, keep doing this cool work, keep building this, keep encouraging people to read, keep talking about it.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um I mean, you're gonna experience personal growth through this as well, which is another thing I'll be really curious to hear, just your personal journey through it all.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_00: But uh man, thank you so much for taking the time to do this.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_00: And like I said, we'll have John the lead in all the show notes so people can follow along and go join and and uh you know do what they can to support you.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_00: But uh man, thanks for being a part of it.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and and I'll say that I'll say the same to you.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_01: I I love what you're doing at Books for Guys.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_01: I love that you're encouraging people to slow down, encouraging uh guys to sit down and read together.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_01: I think I I think you're right.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like I think there are uh book clubs for women, it it seems to be more acceptable for some reason in in that, but men need to spend time with other men talking about deep things.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like there is there is a loneliness epidemic with men.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_01: And if if reading a book together is a chance to get together and talk about hard things in your life, do it, do it, right?
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_01: You you may not even discuss the book, right?
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like read the book, just get together and just be with other guys.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I love what you're doing.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_01: You are you're making an impact and continue to push guys to to just get together, slow down, and be intentional.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I appreciate that, Casey.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, it'll be a fun conversation when we uh we pick this up again down the road.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_00: It'll be really cool to see what we're both doing and just the impacts we're we're trying to have and are having.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_00: And so uh, man, thanks again, Casey.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_00: Appreciate this.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_00: My pleasure.