Latest / The Epstein Chronicles / Inside The OIG Interview: The Warden's Statement Detailing The Death Of Jeffrey Epstein (Part 24) (4/22/26)

Transcript

Inside The OIG Interview: The Warden's Statement Detailing The Death Of Jeffrey Epstein (Part 24) (4/22/26) · The Epstein Chronicles

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  Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the
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  Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up
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  where we left off with the interview that was given
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  by the warden of MCC to the OIG investigators question,
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  all right, so we're literally less than half a page left,
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  but this next one is just going to be I'm
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  going to have you just kind of read it along
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  with me because it's so long. He was also an
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  inmate who had risk factors for assault by other inmates
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  and did require careful selection for appropriate cell mates. Although
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  these issues were noted, well documented and communicated, a failure
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  still occurred by allowing inmate Epstein to be placed in
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  the cell alone. Although feasible for an inmate to effectuate
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  suicide while housed with the cell mate, the odds of
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  this occurring are significantly lowered when housed with another inmate.
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  The report continues, its apparent various staff at the institution
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  made a point of ensuring inmate Epstein had an assigned
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  cell mate. The captain personally instructed the lieutenants individually. A
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  mass email was distributed by Psychology, and it's apparent that
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  some Shoe officers were aware, although many people acknowledge this
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  an important fact. Ultimately, the final staff responsible for not
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  or did not ensure the requirement was met. Including vital
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  directives such as cellmate requirement and a mass email does
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  not ensure. Indiscernible directives such as cellmate requirement and a
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  mass email does not ensure those who truly need that
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  information due in fact, receive it timely. In this case,
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  inmate Epstein was actually placed with a cell mat when
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  removed from psychological observation. After that moment, It's clear there
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  was no additional written directive or a fel safe system
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  established to ensure that inmate Epstein would have had a
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  cell mat going forward. So I guess, first and foremost,
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  do you believe probably the primary reason why Epstein was
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  able to take his own life was because he'd have
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  a cell mate, on top of the fact that they
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  weren't conducting rounds in the shoe and counts. Answer? I
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  can't speak on that mindset. Only I can speak on
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  is he killed himself? Question? But what I'm asking is
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  would it have certainly helped prevent his death by one
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  having an inmate and two having rounds and counts conducted? Answer? Oh,
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  if people did their job. Question right answer, you know,
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  and he gets cut off by the investigator like obviously,
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  if he killed himself, he did it. But the way
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  that the government can better ensure that that doesn't happen
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  is by ensuring that when it's mandated that someone has
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  a cell mate, that they have a cell mate, and
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  when they do their job, like you just said, they
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  conduct rounds and counts. Is that what you believe would
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  have helped keep them alive today if you know from
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  the government perspective. Answer, I mean again, I'm going to
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  have to just say I can't say what would have
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  kept them alive, but I will say, you know, if
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  people made their rounds, did their jobs, followed instructions that
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  they were given, then it might have could have minimized,
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  you know, the risk. But I can't talk to you
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  know if he would have done it or not done it,
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  if that would have stopped them. Question now, as far
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  as this last sentence that they wrote after that moment,
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  it's clear that there was no additional written directive or
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  a fell safe system established to ensure inmate Epstein would
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  have a cell mate going forward. What do you think
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  could have been done and who should have done it? Answer,
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  so directives and the information was conveyed to people verbally
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  documented on forms on what you're supposed to do. There
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  were signs up. Question now, what signs do you know
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  that were up? Answer no, I mean the one you
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  read to me about the sign about doing the thirty
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  minute checks. Question Oh, I think this is specifically talking
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  about the cellmate requirement. Answer no, I mean indiscernible cell
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  ma requirement. It was put out by the captain. Directives
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  were given, staff was spoken to. You know, it's kind
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  of boiled down to people not doing their job. I mean,
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  if I tell you you have to do something, it's
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  given to you in writing. What more do you want? Question? Well,
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  that's kind of my question because the BOP is the
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  one who wrote that finding. So I'm curious myself what
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  you think that could have been done? Answer? I mean
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  that's somebody's opinion. You know, that's a Monday morning quarterback
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  that came in and make an opinion. I don't know
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  what their ulterior motive is for making it. Question can
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  you think of anything that wasn't done? Can you think
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  of anything like, oh, if this could have helped or
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  maybe he should have done that. As far as the
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  cellmate requirement. Answer, I can't think of anything they should
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  have done. Question No, okay, the other investigator asked a question.
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  I know it's bound to based on once everything comes up.
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  These are questions that they're going to have. So I
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  got asked, I know you mentioned that you couldn't have
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  secondary selection, like another replacement for rays because inmates keep moving.
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  But is it possible that a list should have been
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  created that you know, should have told the shoe officers, hey, listen,
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  if Rayes ever gets removed, here's a list of maybe
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  possible five inmates that could you could choose from. Answer,
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  But I mean, under you know, different inmates, we can
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  do that. But he was a high profile inmate. I
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  would have had to get the name and run it
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  up to the department to see if it was okay,
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  it wasn't just him. I was going to arbitrarily say, listen,
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  I need you to you know, we're going to put
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  this guy. I was just like with the other ones,
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  sent it up to the department. So again it would
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  have been based on who was there question and because
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  of that extreme detail that had to go into selection,
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  I think that redacted as asking should have there been
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  a list of names that the higher up signed off
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  on in case every one was removed, they went to court,
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  they didn't come back, they were transferred things like that.
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  Answer like, that's what they list as a failsafe, like
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  as a precautionary measure. Question. And that's why I think
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  he's saying, like a list of five people versus one
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  or two. So if this person is not there, what
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  about this one? That one is not there either, but
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  maybe this guy you know that type of thing, or
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  did you just stand by a hunch answer? I just yeah,
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  I just feel like, you know, it wasn't I can't know.
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  I mean again, I'm operating in hindsight. I mean at
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  the time, you know that's what was done. Question. Yeah,
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  and we are absolutely asking you to operate in hindsight.
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  Answer right. Question saying like Monday morning quarterbacking yourself and
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  your own institution. I get it, but like Monday morning
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  quarterbacking the situation? What do you think they you know,
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  they're referring to this as the BOP and we're not
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  experts were coming in, but BOP is saying this. I'm
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  just saying, what do they mean by this? And what
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  are some things that could have been done. Answer right,
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  But those are individuals that are coming in looking at
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  a situation that weren't deeply involved in it. You know,
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  they weren't the ones that were told, hey, okay, I'm
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  talking to my boss and it's going to go all
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  the way up the department. That wasn't privy to them.
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  That was a need to know basis. But unfortunately, everyone
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  who is going to eventually look at this case, says
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  the other investigator is going to be doing the same
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  exact thing as they are. Answer no, But what I'm
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  saying is if we're looking at assessing the situation on
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  what happened in real time, That's what I'm talking about.
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  So in real time now, if they had known that, hey,
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  you know what, these names had to go up and
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  be you know, vetted at the same time, maybe it
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  would have been a different thought process. The word answers
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  and was a possible question and was possible? And maybe
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  you discuss this, was it possible that hey, listen, the
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  shoe officers could have replaced Did they have the ability
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  to replace Reyes if they wanted to, or did they
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  have to come up the chain of command for the
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  chin of command to tell them who the new inmate,
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  he gets cut off by the warden. They were instructed, hey,
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  let us know when where he's to have a cell
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  mate at all times, and to notify let someone know
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  because again due to the individual that he was, you
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  just don't want to throw anybody question. Okay, but doesn't
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  that kind of hinder them from taking action. Let's say
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  at the point on that day you are not in
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  the institution, Captain redacted, was there? I understand there was
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  an acting warden there, you had the executive staff there.
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  Just because the warden is not there, it doesn't mean
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  the institution doesn't run. That's why you have, you know,
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  people acting on your behalf, you know, so that they
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  can make these decisions. Question. So, maybe what Redacted you're
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  trying to ask is would somebody, since it sounds like
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  you would have to go over your head to even
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  make that decision, has to go to the regional director level.
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  Would the associate warden have the ability to go to
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  the regional director or would have they known to go
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  to the regional director? Answer? So, let's say that did happen, right,
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  they would have no I'm saying as far as finding
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  out that hey needed a sell mate so even though
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  I'm off that day, I'm still working because I got
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  the government phone and they're going to call me and
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  tell me, hey, this is what we got going on.
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  He needs a cell mate. And then I would be like, okay,
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  let's see what we have so we can send it up. Question.
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  So basically you were always available. Someone was always available
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  that if the proper notification was being made up, they
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  could send it up the chain. A newer inmate could
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  have been assigned. Answer. That's why I carried it. That's
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  why I had indiscernible so to I get calls all
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  hours of the night even if I'm off, I'm not off.
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  If there's an issue, an emergency, I'm called Yeah. Question okay.
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  And if someone does ask should the shoe officers have
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  been given the ability? Your answer to that would have been,
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  you have that phone with you. Someone should have made
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  the notification, so someone in the hire of command answer,
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  someone in the higher command. They'd contact me. So it
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  was not like I'm off on paper because I am
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  using my leave, but I'm still on duty because you
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  can call me on my phone. Question. My last two
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  questions based on your conversation, and after this, based on
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  your conversations and this after action report that we just
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  reviewed those topics. What are the failures of the BOP
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  that allowed Epstein to die? Answer I'm not. I mean,
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  that's I think I can't. You know, I'm speculating and
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  I'm giving personal opinions and I'm not. He gets cut
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  off again. I'm not asking you to say why he
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  killed himself or if he could have. What I'm saying is,
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  what are the failures of the BOP. Hayes jump He
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  killed himself because he ain't stupid. He said to himself,
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  holy shit, I'm going to spend the rest of my
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  life in prison. Question Yeah, yeah, and I'm not. I'm
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  not absolutely not asking as far as what his mental
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  state could have been or if he could have had
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  the ability. But are the failures as you see them
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  after we reviewed all of this that you believe what
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  did the BOP do wrong in this instance unless you
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  don't think that they did anything wrong? Answer? No, I'm
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  not saying they did anything wrong. But again, these are
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  things that are that you're going to find. I mean,
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  right now I can look at it and say we're
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  looking at people not making rounds and all that, but
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  there's still an investigation going on, So I don't want
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  to sit here and speculate and say he gets cut off. No,
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  but we are the ones doing the investigation, and you're
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  the leader of the organization that you know of the place.
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  That's why this is very relevant question for you to
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  answer because you know this was the facility that you oversaw.
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  So we're just I'm simply asking, is what do you
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  think the problems are as you see them after you
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  just heard everything we talked about for it seems like
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  the fat last five hours answer. No, I mean, if
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  we could talk, I mean, you're not counting you didn't
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  make your rounds in that unit to check on an inmate.
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  I mean that is that is the basics right there.
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  You know, we can talk about all the other stuff,
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  but basic is you did not go and make those rounds.
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  Question and would you also, though, add to the fact
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  that they didn't replace reyis like they were supposed to
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  answer yes, question Okay, what actions could the BOP have
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  taken to possibly prevent Epstein's death, Because it just sounds
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  like they quote the answer would be conduct your rounds,
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  conduct your counts, do your job. Get reyis Hayes Pipes
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  in ninety nine out of one hundred times it wouldn't
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  have happened. Question. Right, So, but in this case, it
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  does seem like a lot of this was a result of,
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  like you keep on saying, people not doing their jobs.
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  But I mean, in all fairness, we've had since Epstein
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  died and before, we've had almost sixty suicides. So it's
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  the same reoccurring theme, you know, people not making their
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  rounds and doing what they're supposed to do. Question, And
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  is that the same thing that's happening with them they're
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  not doing their rounds or accounts. Answer? I mean, and
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  nine times out of ten, every time you look into something,
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  it's a matter of them doing checks, you know, not counting.
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  You know, so it's normal things. Question. Are these other
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  instances where we find out that they didn't have cell mates? Answer?
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  A single cell? You know, I mean you have access
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  to the data. I mean, you look at it, you
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  look at the members of a single cell inmate. But
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  there is instances where, you know, sometimes you do have
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  to put somebody in a single cell. Question. Sure, answer,
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  But you know there's other suicides and they don't stop,
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  you know, some of it. You know, staff had no
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  control over it and some staff had control over it.
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  Question and I do apologize. I said that was last question,
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  but I guess I should ask in Monday morning quarterbacking yourself.
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  Is there anything that you should have done differently as
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  the mcc warden answer as far as what this situation? Question? Yeah,
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  just anything that you feel like, oh, you know, like
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  I should have done this better, or I could have
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  done this better, that type of thing. Answer I can't question.
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  Just for the record, let me just okay, anything else
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  you have? Answer no, Hayes, that's it. Question anything that
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  you wanted to add to anything, Warden, anything that was said,
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  anything that we missed or you wanted to add. Answer no, No,
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  that's it. Question Is there anything you think we missed
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  talking about? Answer no, not that I can think of.
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  Question No, Yeah, no, we got you. Hayes jumps in
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  like I was impressed that you did that. He couldn't
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  go through this. I would have been to the bathroom,
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  like I got to do this. I got to do this.
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  I mean I got to make a phone call. I
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  want to take a nap. He just sat there and
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  answered all the questions. He's not even sweating under his armpits.
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  Question and thank you very much for your cooperation. I
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  appreciate you. The recording is showing that this is five
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  hours and fifteen minutes, so this was an epic, epic interview.
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  It's currently seven eighteen pm on Wednesday, October twenty seventh,
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  twenty twenty one. This is Senior Special Agent redacted, and
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  I'm turning off the recorder. All right, folks, Well, there
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  you have it, the OIG interview with the Warden from
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  mcc all. The information that goes with this episode can
• 15:34
  be found in the description box