Latest / Love Your Gut / Ep 74: What SIBO Really Is (And Why the Standard Approach Falls Short) [SIBO mini series part 1]

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Ep 74: What SIBO Really Is (And Why the Standard Approach Falls Short) [SIBO mini series part 1] · Love Your Gut

• 0:03
  Dr. Heather Finley: Welcome to the Love Your Gut Podcast.
• 0:05
  Dr. Heather Finley: I'm your host, Dr.
• 0:06
  Dr. Heather Finley: Heather Finley, registered dietitian and gut health specialist.
• 0:10
  Dr. Heather Finley: I understand the frustration of dealing with GI issues because I've been there and I spent over two decades searching for answers for my own gut issues of constipation, bloating, and stomach pain.
• 0:21
  Dr. Heather Finley: I've dedicated my life to understanding and solving my own gut issues.
• 0:25
  Dr. Heather Finley: And now I'm here to guide you.
• 0:28
  Dr. Heather Finley: On this podcast, I'll help you identify the true root causes of your discomfort.
• 0:33
  Dr. Heather Finley: So you can finally ditch your symptoms for good.
• 0:36
  Dr. Heather Finley: My goal is to empower you with the knowledge and tools you need so that you can love your gut and it will love you right back.
• 0:43
  Dr. Heather Finley: So if you're ready to learn a lot, gain a deeper understanding of your gut and find lasting relief.
• 0:48
  Dr. Heather Finley: You are in the right place.
• 0:50
  Dr. Heather Finley: Welcome to the love your gut podcast.
• 0:55
  Dr. Heather Finley: If you've been told you have SIBO and handed another antibiotic or a low FODMAP diet or insert elimination diet here, but you are still bloated, constipated, and frustrated, this episode is for you.
• 1:09
  Dr. Heather Finley: Welcome back to the Love Your Gut podcast.
• 1:12
  Dr. Heather Finley: I'm your host, Dr.
• 1:13
  Dr. Heather Finley: Heather Finley, and today we are kicking off a brand new mini series all about sibo, small intestinal bacterial overgrowth.
• 1:21
  Dr. Heather Finley: This series is going to teach you what SIBO really is.
• 1:27
  Dr. Heather Finley: Why it keeps coming back and why the standard kill it and restrict everything.
• 1:32
  Dr. Heather Finley: Approach usually doesn't get people long-term relief.
• 1:36
  Dr. Heather Finley: We'll be talking about SIBO testing, recovery stories, root causes that most people miss, and what to focus on instead.
• 1:44
  Dr. Heather Finley: If you're tired of being stuck in just this bloat restrict or symptom repeat cycle.
• 1:51
  Dr. Heather Finley: But first I wanna just start off with a story because I wanna just lay the ground here so that you can relate and hopefully feel less alone.
• 2:01
  Dr. Heather Finley: So we will talk about one of our clients.
• 2:03
  Dr. Heather Finley: We'll call her Lauren.
• 2:04
  Dr. Heather Finley: Lauren came to us after, have done, have, having done four full rounds of SIBO treatment.
• 2:11
  Dr. Heather Finley: She did antibiotics and she did herbals.
• 2:14
  Dr. Heather Finley: She did antibiotics.
• 2:15
  Dr. Heather Finley: Twice and herbals twice.
• 2:17
  Dr. Heather Finley: So she had worked with her GI doctor and then she'd also worked with another alternative provider.
• 2:22
  Dr. Heather Finley: I think it was a naturopath.
• 2:24
  Dr. Heather Finley: So each time she felt a little bit better for a few weeks, but then the bloating and the constipation and the fatigue would come roaring back.
• 2:31
  Dr. Heather Finley: And in fact, the last time, so the fourth time that she treated the sibo.
• 2:36
  Dr. Heather Finley: She actually didn't ever feel better.
• 2:38
  Dr. Heather Finley: She was like that's when I knew something had to change.
• 2:41
  Dr. Heather Finley: She told me when we got on a call, I just feel like I'm buying tickets to this SIBO merry-go-round that I don't want to be on anymore, how do I actually get off?
• 2:51
  Dr. Heather Finley: So we started chatting and eventually she started working with our team.
• 2:56
  Dr. Heather Finley: And when we finally zoomed out, we discovered that no one else had ever addressed really anything besides the sibo.
• 3:03
  Dr. Heather Finley: She had serious motility issues from past food poisoning.
• 3:07
  Dr. Heather Finley: Her nervous system was very dysregulated, partially just from all the stress of the symptoms.
• 3:13
  Dr. Heather Finley: She had pretty severe mineral imbalances on her HTMA, which makes sense because you absorb nutrients in your small intestine.
• 3:20
  Dr. Heather Finley: And then once we started focusing on restoring her gut function, not just killing bacteria, everything changed.
• 3:27
  Dr. Heather Finley: She went from dreading every meal to actually enjoying food again without bloating that she had just kind of normalized for years.
• 3:36
  Dr. Heather Finley: And I really want that for you too.
• 3:38
  Dr. Heather Finley: If you're curious about what could be driving your digestive symptoms, whether you have SIBO or not, don't tune out if you.
• 3:45
  Dr. Heather Finley: Don't have SIBO or this is the first time you're hearing about it if you have chronic GI issues.
• 3:50
  Dr. Heather Finley: This message really applies to anybody, so we wanna look at the symptoms underneath the surface.
• 3:57
  Dr. Heather Finley: It's a great way to fully address your symptoms and fully find relief so.
• 4:04
  Dr. Heather Finley: Let's start off by just getting into what SIBO really is and why the standard approach keeps falling short.
• 4:11
  Dr. Heather Finley: It's not, I think there's a huge misconception that SIBO just means that bacteria are in the wrong place, and that is true, but that's just such a small piece.
• 4:22
  Dr. Heather Finley: It's a sign that your whole digestive environment is really out of sync.
• 4:26
  Dr. Heather Finley: So let's start with the basics.
• 4:28
  Dr. Heather Finley: SIBO stands for Small intestinal Bacterial Overgrowth, and the key is it's not an infection in the traditional sense, it's more about a disruption in balance.
• 4:39
  Dr. Heather Finley: I have a funny story to share about this actually.
• 4:42
  Dr. Heather Finley: My kids have really been into anatomy recently and every night their bedtime stories, this is all them, not me.
• 4:50
  Dr. Heather Finley: They have wanted me to tell them about their bodies.
• 4:54
  Dr. Heather Finley: So we've learned about our stomach, we've learned about our gallbladder, which my Daughter so eloquently was like, okay, so your gallbladder is like a water gun and it shoots bile out when you digest fat.
• 5:06
  Dr. Heather Finley: So from the, from the mouth of a 6-year-old.
• 5:09
  Dr. Heather Finley: But your small intestine is.
• 5:12
  Dr. Heather Finley: Really supposed to have relatively few bacteria, especially compared to the large intestine.
• 5:18
  Dr. Heather Finley: And the reason that I was laughing when I started saying this is because my three-year-old calls the large intestine, the big intestine, so the small intestine and the big intestine, you've got two of'em.
• 5:29
  Dr. Heather Finley: Your small intestine is actually bigger than your large intestine.
• 5:32
  Dr. Heather Finley: Fun fact.
• 5:33
  Dr. Heather Finley: But your large intestine houses the bulk of your gut bacteria.
• 5:37
  Dr. Heather Finley: So we really don't want a ton of bacteria in your small intestine.
• 5:40
  Dr. Heather Finley: That's not really its purpose.
• 5:42
  Dr. Heather Finley: So when bacteria that would normally hang out in the colon or the big intestine start to overgrow in the small intestine.
• 5:50
  Dr. Heather Finley: Or when certain types grow excessively, that's when we start to see symptoms.
• 5:54
  Dr. Heather Finley: Something that Dr.
• 5:55
  Dr. Heather Finley: Ruscio talks about often is SIBO isn't just about more bacteria.
• 6:01
  Dr. Heather Finley: It's about bacteria being in the wrong place or being imbalanced, and that imbalance throws off entire ecosystems.
• 6:08
  Dr. Heather Finley: So we really can't treat this like an acute infection that just needs to be killed off.
• 6:13
  Dr. Heather Finley: We have to think about it as a sign that the gut environment isn't functioning properly, and that's what allowed that overgrowth to happen in the first place.
• 6:22
  Dr. Heather Finley: So let's talk about the types of sibo, because this can give some clues about what might be driving your symptoms.
• 6:27
  Dr. Heather Finley: So the first type of SIBO is hydrogen dominant sibo.
• 6:30
  Dr. Heather Finley: This is actually the most common type.
• 6:32
  Dr. Heather Finley: It's actually not the most common type that we see.
• 6:35
  Dr. Heather Finley: But this is the most common type, supposedly.
• 6:38
  Dr. Heather Finley: It's associated typically with looser stools, diarrhea and urgency.
• 6:43
  Dr. Heather Finley: Think of this as kind of stage one.
• 6:45
  Dr. Heather Finley: Hydrogen is kind of the starter gas produced by fermenting bacteria.
• 6:49
  Dr. Heather Finley: This is why this is not the most common type of SIBO that we see, because we typically see people when they've treated SIBO multiple times, and it's now turned into.
• 7:00
  Dr. Heather Finley: Methane as well.
• 7:02
  Dr. Heather Finley: So methane dominant overgrowth, which is technically called intestinal anogen overgrowth, or IMO.
• 7:08
  Dr. Heather Finley: This isn't true SIBO because methanogens aren't really bacteria.
• 7:12
  Dr. Heather Finley: They're archaea, but they feed on hydrogen.
• 7:16
  Dr. Heather Finley: So if you've had hydrogen SIBO and it wasn't resolved properly, it can turn into methane overgrowth.
• 7:23
  Dr. Heather Finley: This type is typically linked with constipation, harder stools, more stubborn, bloating, and typically is when people have had symptoms for a long time.
• 7:32
  Dr. Heather Finley: Hence why that's the most common one that we see.
• 7:35
  Dr. Heather Finley: And then the last piece, which is I guess the quote unquote newest form of sibo.
• 7:40
  Dr. Heather Finley: This one is newer.
• 7:41
  Dr. Heather Finley: It's not routinely tested yet.
• 7:44
  Dr. Heather Finley: It often shows up as really foul smelling gas, like sulfur or rotten eggs, plus fatigue, brain fog, sensitivity to su sulfur rich foods like eggs or garlic.
• 7:53
  Dr. Heather Finley: It can also be associated.
• 7:55
  Dr. Heather Finley: Joint pain and some really wonky symptoms.
• 7:58
  Dr. Heather Finley: These clients often feel like toxic but they get a flat line result on a breath test, which can be super misleading.
• 8:06
  Dr. Heather Finley: The only test that is really easy to get to test for all three of these is the Trio Smart Test.
• 8:13
  Dr. Heather Finley: They have a process on their website where you can actually order it.
• 8:16
  Dr. Heather Finley: But don't go and order it.
• 8:17
  Dr. Heather Finley: As you're listening to this, I'm gonna talk about when you should and when you shouldn't test for sibo.
• 8:22
  Dr. Heather Finley: So while the type of overgrowth matters, the symptoms do often overlap, often persistent bloating.
• 8:28
  Dr. Heather Finley: Excess gas fatigue, brain fog, skin issues is really common.
• 8:33
  Dr. Heather Finley: Constipation, diarrhea.
• 8:35
  Dr. Heather Finley: And then a big one is nutrient deficiencies, especially B12, iron fat soluble vitamins.
• 8:41
  Dr. Heather Finley: SIBO can interfere with absorption, so your small intestine is primarily where you digest a lot of your nutrients.
• 8:49
  Dr. Heather Finley: So if you've had SIBO for a long time and you also have low iron or poor B12 or whatever it might be.
• 8:57
  Dr. Heather Finley: These things can all actually go together.
• 8:59
  Dr. Heather Finley: So here's the bottom line.
• 9:01
  Dr. Heather Finley: SIBO is a downstream consequence, not a standalone condition.
• 9:06
  Dr. Heather Finley: If you hear anything from the episode, let it be that it is your body's way of waving a red flag that your whole digestive system is not working like it should.
• 9:17
  Dr. Heather Finley: And before you get overwhelmed, I'm gonna simplify this for you.
• 9:20
  Dr. Heather Finley: It's helpful to understand the type of gas that's involved, but the more helpful piece is fixing the environment that allowed the overgrowth in the first place.
• 9:29
  Dr. Heather Finley: And that's where real healing actually happens.
• 9:33
  Dr. Heather Finley: So if you only focus on killing bacteria, you really will keep missing the reason that it's growing in the first place.
• 9:39
  Dr. Heather Finley: So let's talk about the typical SIBO protocol that so many clients come to me after trying.
• 9:45
  Dr. Heather Finley: Usually more than once.
• 9:46
  Dr. Heather Finley: Here's the typical sequence.
• 9:48
  Dr. Heather Finley: You get a positive breath test, or you just have symptoms.
• 9:51
  Dr. Heather Finley: We get a lot of clients that doctors were like, eh, we're not gonna do the breath test.
• 9:55
  Dr. Heather Finley: You probably have sibo.
• 9:56
  Dr. Heather Finley: Just go ahead and take these antibiotics.
• 9:59
  Dr. Heather Finley: Typically, you're prescribed Rifaximin or Xifaxan Neomycin.
• 10:04
  Dr. Heather Finley: Flagal is another one.
• 10:05
  Dr. Heather Finley: Sometimes you're prescribed a combination.
• 10:08
  Dr. Heather Finley: You also are probably told to do a low FODMAP diet, something like the biphasic diet.
• 10:14
  Dr. Heather Finley: You might feel a little relief and then all of a sudden your symptoms come back.
• 10:18
  Dr. Heather Finley: Whether that is two weeks later, two months later, maybe six months later.
• 10:22
  Dr. Heather Finley: There are also a lot of doctors that will say that you kind of proactively need to treat SIBO just to prevent it, which is totally wrong if you fix the reason that it came.
• 10:33
  Dr. Heather Finley: Then you don't have to keep taking the antibiotics for it.
• 10:37
  Dr. Heather Finley: So the Lofo hop diet, if you're not familiar, removes fermentable fibers.
• 10:40
  Dr. Heather Finley: So things like garlic, onions, legumes, certain fruits, grains.
• 10:44
  Dr. Heather Finley: This can help reduce gas and bloating, the biphasic diet.
• 10:48
  Dr. Heather Finley: I've actually had the founder of this diet.
• 10:50
  Dr. Heather Finley: On the podcast is a more structured version of this, often done in two phases strict elimination, then reintroduction alongside antimicrobials.
• 11:00
  Dr. Heather Finley: Now here's the thing.
• 11:00
  Dr. Heather Finley: This podcast is not about whether you should do lo fodmap or biphasic or not, because these symptoms or these approaches can reduce symptoms and the short term, but they're not actually gonna fix the problem or prevent recurrence, and that's the problem.
• 11:16
  Dr. Heather Finley: You cannot starve your way out of sibo.
• 11:20
  Dr. Heather Finley: You cannot kill your way into balance.
• 11:22
  Dr. Heather Finley: So it's like spraying weed killer on your garden without fixing the poor soil conditions that allowed for those weeds to take over in the first place.
• 11:30
  Dr. Heather Finley: So, sure, the weeds might die for now, but they'll be back unless you enrich the soil.
• 11:35
  Dr. Heather Finley: You plant new things, you pull them out by the root.
• 11:38
  Dr. Heather Finley: And you tend to the ecosystem itself.
• 11:41
  Dr. Heather Finley: So let's talk about the three big reasons that this kill and restrict approach fails.
• 11:47
  Dr. Heather Finley: Number one, if it isn't already obvious, is it doesn't address why SIBO developed.
• 11:53
  Dr. Heather Finley: So SIBO is a secondary issue.
• 11:55
  Dr. Heather Finley: You have to ask why did bacteria overgrow in the first place?
• 11:59
  Dr. Heather Finley: Why didn't the body clear it out naturally?
• 12:01
  Dr. Heather Finley: This is where my.
• 12:03
  Dr. Heather Finley: North to south digestion framework becomes really important.
• 12:07
  Dr. Heather Finley: Whether you are a client in our programs or you are a practitioner in my practitioner programs, I teach this to you.
• 12:14
  Dr. Heather Finley: If you've heard me talk about this before, you know, I always say you can't fix what's happening in the small intestines so south if you don't support what's happening upstream, north.
• 12:23
  Dr. Heather Finley: So we start at the top.
• 12:25
  Dr. Heather Finley: How's your meal hygiene?
• 12:26
  Dr. Heather Finley: Are you chewing?
• 12:27
  Dr. Heather Finley: Well, can you salivate?
• 12:29
  Dr. Heather Finley: Can you swallow?
• 12:30
  Dr. Heather Finley: Are you eating in a calm state?
• 12:31
  Dr. Heather Finley: Do you have enough stomach acid to break down your food?
• 12:34
  Dr. Heather Finley: Is your bile flowing properly to digest fats?
• 12:37
  Dr. Heather Finley: Is your pancreas releasing enzymes?
• 12:40
  Dr. Heather Finley: How's your liver?
• 12:41
  Dr. Heather Finley: There's so many steps of digestion that have to go correct in order for food to even end up in your small intestine.
• 12:48
  Dr. Heather Finley: So because if any of this is going wrong, you're sending undigested food into the small intestine where it sits, it ferments, it feeds bacteria, creating the perfect storm for sibo, which is not what we want.
• 13:01
  Dr. Heather Finley: Problem number two is it starves good bacteria too.
• 13:04
  Dr. Heather Finley: So the longer you stay on restrictive diets like low FODMAP or whatever it might be.
• 13:09
  Dr. Heather Finley: The lower your microbial diversity eventually will be especially important strains or keystone strains of bacteria like bifidobacteria.
• 13:18
  Dr. Heather Finley: These are keystone for long-term gut health.
• 13:21
  Dr. Heather Finley: These diets were never meant to be long-term, and I think that a lot of people that use these diets in their practice, they would agree with me Like, yes, the low FODMAP diet is gonna help you possibly be less bloated, but it's not actually gonna fix the sibo.
• 13:36
  Dr. Heather Finley: It's not gonna kill sibo.
• 13:38
  Dr. Heather Finley: But what happens is a lot of people go to practitioners that are uneducated about what low FODMAP is, and then they end up on these diets for way, way, way too long.
• 13:48
  Dr. Heather Finley: So low fodmap.
• 13:50
  Dr. Heather Finley: Was a four to six weeks max elimination, but we've had clients come to us who've been on it for like two plus years.
• 13:57
  Dr. Heather Finley: By then, their gut is so depleted.
• 13:59
  Dr. Heather Finley: Not of even just the bad stuff, but the very microbes that keep things in balance to support your immune function, your hormone health, even your mood.
• 14:08
  Dr. Heather Finley: And they just didn't know.
• 14:10
  Dr. Heather Finley: No one told them, do this for four to six weeks and then you have to reintroduce.
• 14:14
  Dr. Heather Finley: They were never guided correctly.
• 14:16
  Dr. Heather Finley: Alright, the last problem is it ignores the whole body.
• 14:21
  Dr. Heather Finley: Contributors like the nervous system, gut motility, even minerals.
• 14:25
  Dr. Heather Finley: Even the best diet or protocol will fail if your bowels aren't moving daily.
• 14:30
  Dr. Heather Finley: If your nervous system is stuck in fight or flight, if you're depleted in minerals that drive gut motility.
• 14:36
  Dr. Heather Finley: Minerals help your body to make energy.
• 14:40
  Dr. Heather Finley: They also help your muscles to contract.
• 14:42
  Dr. Heather Finley: So if you're really constipated and your gut muscles can't contract, then that's a problem.
• 14:48
  Dr. Heather Finley: Your minerals also help you to make stomach acid and enzymes.
• 14:51
  Dr. Heather Finley: So if your gut isn't moving or your digestion isn't working properly upstream, you can do all the killing and restricting in the world and it's not gonna stick.
• 15:00
  Dr. Heather Finley: And the real trap is clients often think that they failed the protocol.
• 15:05
  Dr. Heather Finley: When in reality the protocol failed them because it was actually missing a huge, huge piece.
• 15:10
  Dr. Heather Finley: So in short, SIBO isn't just about bacteria.
• 15:15
  Dr. Heather Finley: It's about function.
• 15:16
  Dr. Heather Finley: It's about flow.
• 15:17
  Dr. Heather Finley: It's about balance.
• 15:18
  Dr. Heather Finley: You can't heal the system by attacking one piece of it over and over again.
• 15:23
  Dr. Heather Finley: Let's talk chat about testing and why.
• 15:26
  Dr. Heather Finley: Testing actually isn't everything.
• 15:28
  Dr. Heather Finley: I love testing.
• 15:30
  Dr. Heather Finley: Sometimes when it's for the right reasons.
• 15:33
  Dr. Heather Finley: So I know so many of you're wondering like, okay, this sounds like me.
• 15:37
  Dr. Heather Finley: Do I need to be tested for SIBO before I start working on this?
• 15:41
  Dr. Heather Finley: The truth is sibo breath testing can be helpful, but it's very far from perfect as many tests are.
• 15:47
  Dr. Heather Finley: So here's how it works.
• 15:48
  Dr. Heather Finley: You drink a sugar solution, usually lactulose or glucose, the sugar is gonna move through your digestive tract.
• 15:54
  Dr. Heather Finley: If bacteria in your small intestine are fermenting, they'll produce a gas.
• 15:58
  Dr. Heather Finley: So hydrogen methane, sometimes hydrogen sulfide, you breathe into a tube every 15 to 20 minutes over a few hours to measure the gas levels.
• 16:06
  Dr. Heather Finley: So it sounds really straightforward, right?
• 16:09
  Dr. Heather Finley: But there's a lot of things that can skew the results, and there's a lot of limitations.
• 16:13
  Dr. Heather Finley: Number one is that there's a lot of false positives that are common, especially if you are constipated.
• 16:19
  Dr. Heather Finley: If you're constipated, you have sluggish motility.
• 16:22
  Dr. Heather Finley: The sugar solution can sit longer in the small intestine.
• 16:26
  Dr. Heather Finley: This gives bacteria more time to ferment.
• 16:28
  Dr. Heather Finley: It can read to it, it can, create a positive in gas readings that suggest sibo, even if it's not actually that significant.
• 16:36
  Dr. Heather Finley: And then even small things like toothpaste can affect the outcome.
• 16:40
  Dr. Heather Finley: If you.
• 16:41
  Dr. Heather Finley: Accidentally swallow toothpaste the day of the collection or eat something off planned during the prep period.
• 16:47
  Dr. Heather Finley: You have to follow a strict diet.
• 16:49
  Dr. Heather Finley: It can throw things off, so can exercise.
• 16:51
  Dr. Heather Finley: Alcohol, not spacing it.
• 16:52
  Dr. Heather Finley: I mean, so many things can affect this.
• 16:55
  Dr. Heather Finley: And then flatline results can be misleading as well.
• 16:58
  Dr. Heather Finley: Sometimes you'll get the test results back and it's just all high.
• 17:02
  Dr. Heather Finley: So that is, it can either be all high or it can be all low.
• 17:07
  Dr. Heather Finley: It's what we call a flat line.
• 17:09
  Dr. Heather Finley: That might mean the test wasn't performed correctly.
• 17:11
  Dr. Heather Finley: It could point to hydrogen sulfide sibo, which most tests don't measure besides the trios Smart, like I mentioned.
• 17:17
  Dr. Heather Finley: And then actually many people with classic SIBO symptoms have negative tests.
• 17:22
  Dr. Heather Finley: We've seen clients with bloating after.
• 17:24
  Dr. Heather Finley: all the meals, especially if they're like super bloated by the end of the day, constipation, fatigue and their breath tests were normal, but they responded beautifully.
• 17:33
  Dr. Heather Finley: Once we address their gut environment, motility upstream, and it might, it still might not have even been sibo, it might just be Libo, which is large intestinal bacterial overgrowth and, yeah.
• 17:44
  Dr. Heather Finley: So I mean, if you wanna do a test, great.
• 17:48
  Dr. Heather Finley: It can be really helpful, especially if hydrogen sulfide is present.
• 17:51
  Dr. Heather Finley: If you have sulfur smelling gas, that can be helpful to know.
• 17:54
  Dr. Heather Finley: So while testing can offer clues, it's not the whole story.
• 17:58
  Dr. Heather Finley: You don't have to do a test.
• 18:00
  Dr. Heather Finley: I think that it's better to spend your money on other tests, which we'll get into.
• 18:04
  Dr. Heather Finley: So you don't wanna get overly focused on.
• 18:08
  Dr. Heather Finley: If you have it or if you don't.
• 18:09
  Dr. Heather Finley: Just because there's so many variables.
• 18:11
  Dr. Heather Finley: So together, like looking at a GI map, which is gonna look at your large intestine, your overall microbial balance, how you're digesting inflammation, it's just you're gonna get a lot more bang for your buck if you're trying to decide where to put your finances.
• 18:27
  Dr. Heather Finley: Versus doing another SIBO test or even an HTMA is gonna look at mineral imbalances that often drive slow motility poor detox.
• 18:35
  Dr. Heather Finley: We see a lot of our clients with chronic SIBO respond super well to minerals because their bodies are just so starved and depleted.
• 18:43
  Dr. Heather Finley: So together, I think those can paint a better picture of what's going on, especially if you haven't responded to typical SIBO treatment.
• 18:51
  Dr. Heather Finley: So if you've been holding off, you know, taking action until you get that diagnosis, you can start healing without a test because we really need to figure out why you have the SIBO or potential SIBO in the first place.
• 19:05
  Dr. Heather Finley: So let's talk about why the gut would be vulnerable to sibo.
• 19:09
  Dr. Heather Finley: Like I mentioned, it's the result often of something not working.
• 19:13
  Dr. Heather Finley: It's the red flag, not the root.
• 19:15
  Dr. Heather Finley: Sibos, the, not the root cause.
• 19:17
  Dr. Heather Finley: It's the result of something in the gut environment that has become vulnerable.
• 19:21
  Dr. Heather Finley: Normal functions like digestion, motility, microbial balance are no longer being properly supported.
• 19:29
  Dr. Heather Finley: So instead of asking, how do I kill the sibo, the better question is what allowed it to get here in the first place?
• 19:36
  Dr. Heather Finley: So let's talk about the first one, which we commonly see, which is.
• 19:39
  Dr. Heather Finley: Slow gut motility.
• 19:41
  Dr. Heather Finley: This is one of the most overlooked root causes, especially if you have methane dominant or constipation.
• 19:47
  Dr. Heather Finley: When your digestive system slows down, food sits too long in the small intestine and bacteria that are supposed to be swept downstream, start fermenting start fermenting leftover leftovers, for lack of a better analogy.
• 20:00
  Dr. Heather Finley: And then you get gas, you get bloating, you get overgrowth.
• 20:04
  Dr. Heather Finley: So the question is why the slow motility, chronic stress can shut down the vagus nerve, which is key in keeping things moving.
• 20:13
  Dr. Heather Finley: Low thyroid function slows everything, including digestion.
• 20:16
  Dr. Heather Finley: We commonly see that mineral imbalances, like I mentioned, so especially like low potassium, low sodium, often cobalt.
• 20:25
  Dr. Heather Finley: These often show up on testing.
• 20:27
  Dr. Heather Finley: We often see this as a huge reason why so many of our clients can't move the needle even after trying everything.
• 20:34
  Dr. Heather Finley: So a helpful analogy I like to use is if your gut is the freeway and the bacteria are cars, slow motility is like.
• 20:41
  Dr. Heather Finley: Traffic at a standstill.
• 20:43
  Dr. Heather Finley: So bacteria that are supposed to pass through, just pile up, and it's not just hydrogen sibo, methane gas in particular slows motility even more, creating just a really vicious cycle, which is why constipation is so stubborn.
• 21:00
  Dr. Heather Finley: When you have intestinal meth antigen overgrowth,'cause the gas itself is making things worse.
• 21:05
  Dr. Heather Finley: The next root cause that we often see is low stomach acid.
• 21:08
  Dr. Heather Finley: Your stomach is supposed to act like an acid bath, breaking down food, neutralizing pathogens, triggering bile and enzyme release.
• 21:16
  Dr. Heather Finley: But if you're low, food isn't broken down, it's easier for pathogens to grow like h pylori.
• 21:23
  Dr. Heather Finley: And then that undigested food becomes a fermentable fuel for bacteria farther down the line.
• 21:29
  Dr. Heather Finley: So again, stomach acid is a north to south trigger.
• 21:33
  Dr. Heather Finley: If that's not working, everything downstream suffers.
• 21:36
  Dr. Heather Finley: And again, minerals matter.
• 21:38
  Dr. Heather Finley: You need zinc, you need chloride, you need sodium to even make stomach acid in the first place.
• 21:43
  Dr. Heather Finley: Another reason is poor bile flow or pancreatic output.
• 21:47
  Dr. Heather Finley: Like I mentioned my daughter called the gallbladder a water gun.
• 21:51
  Dr. Heather Finley: It kind of really is like that.
• 21:53
  Dr. Heather Finley: Um, even if you don't have a gallbladder, you really, even more than that, need to focus on B flow.
• 21:59
  Dr. Heather Finley: When bile and enzymes aren't released, fats and proteins go undigested.
• 22:03
  Dr. Heather Finley: This can really affect bloating and things after meals.
• 22:07
  Dr. Heather Finley: Poor bile flow is often a result of low stomach acid, again, the north to south connection, sluggish liver function, dehydration, of course, mineral depletion.
• 22:18
  Dr. Heather Finley: This is why we don't just give enzymes.
• 22:20
  Dr. Heather Finley: We need to look at what's causing it.
• 22:24
  Dr. Heather Finley: The next one that I wanna talk about is post-infectious IBS or food poisoning.
• 22:28
  Dr. Heather Finley: If you've ever had food poisoning even years ago, you may have developed what's called post-infectious IBS, and what's wild is according to Dr.
• 22:37
  Dr. Heather Finley: Ruscio.
• 22:38
  Dr. Heather Finley: About one in nine people who get food poisoning go on to develop IBS and SIBO is one of the most common outcomes.
• 22:45
  Dr. Heather Finley: So that's because the immune response to food poisoning can damage a key part of your migrating motor complex.
• 22:52
  Dr. Heather Finley: So that's kind of like that cleanup crew that moves bacteria and waste through your small intestine.
• 22:58
  Dr. Heather Finley: And when that wave gets disrupted, overgrowth can take over.
• 23:02
  Dr. Heather Finley: Another one that can be tricky is adhesions or scar tissue.
• 23:06
  Dr. Heather Finley: This one gets missed all the time.
• 23:08
  Dr. Heather Finley: If you've had C-sections, if you have endometriosis, an appendectomy, or even chronic inflammation in the gut.
• 23:16
  Dr. Heather Finley: You might have scar tissue or adhesions that physically block movement in the intestine.
• 23:21
  Dr. Heather Finley: And in these cases, visceral therapy or manual work can work.
• 23:25
  Dr. Heather Finley: Obviously if you have endometriosis, then there's lots of other things involved with that.
• 23:30
  Dr. Heather Finley: Pelvic floor PT can be incredibly helpful and so you often need an alternative provider on your team in that case.
• 23:38
  Dr. Heather Finley: And then the last one that I wanna bring up today is, are actually two more and they kind of go together.
• 23:44
  Dr. Heather Finley: One is mineral depletion.
• 23:46
  Dr. Heather Finley: This is a big one, especially for women who are burnt out.
• 23:50
  Dr. Heather Finley: Exhausted, been doing this forever.
• 23:53
  Dr. Heather Finley: You cannot heal a gut that doesn't have the raw materials to function Often.
• 23:57
  Dr. Heather Finley: On htma, we see low sodium and potassium, which causes sluggish motility, poor hydration.
• 24:04
  Dr. Heather Finley: We see low cobalt, which can go hand in hand with B12 deficiency and nerve dysfunction, and.
• 24:11
  Dr. Heather Finley: Stomach acid issues, we often see high calcium.
• 24:15
  Dr. Heather Finley: This can be a stress pattern.
• 24:16
  Dr. Heather Finley: It can also impact how much your bowels move, and then low magnesium.
• 24:21
  Dr. Heather Finley: This can cause tension.
• 24:22
  Dr. Heather Finley: It can cause constipation.
• 24:23
  Dr. Heather Finley: Poor enzyme activation.
• 24:25
  Dr. Heather Finley: So again, back to the garden analogy, you can't grow anything.
• 24:29
  Dr. Heather Finley: Even good bacteria, if the soil is dried out and depleted, you need minerals to rebuild the terrain.
• 24:36
  Dr. Heather Finley: To fuel motility to regulate your nervous system, which is the next thing.
• 24:40
  Dr. Heather Finley: And the last thing I'm gonna talk about and then drive detoxification.
• 24:44
  Dr. Heather Finley: The last one, and probably the most not popular one, is a dysregulate, a dysregulated nervous system.
• 24:52
  Dr. Heather Finley: You really cannot heal your gut in a state of chronic fight or flight.
• 24:56
  Dr. Heather Finley: And hear me when I say I totally get it.
• 24:58
  Dr. Heather Finley: I've been there.
• 24:59
  Dr. Heather Finley: I still catch myself.
• 25:01
  Dr. Heather Finley: It's very hard to live in a, uh, just.
• 25:06
  Dr. Heather Finley: A regulated way, your vagus nerve controls digestion.
• 25:10
  Dr. Heather Finley: So when your body is constantly in stress mode, whether you have a high stress job, whether you have kids, whether you just never have downtime, whether you're just an easily overwhelmed person, digestion literally shuts down.
• 25:24
  Dr. Heather Finley: Stomach acid drops, motility slows, inflammation goes up.
• 25:28
  Dr. Heather Finley: So this is why we spend so much time helping our clients.
• 25:31
  Dr. Heather Finley: Focus on stress, resilience, anchor in safety before meals regulate their nervous systems.
• 25:36
  Dr. Heather Finley: We've even brought in a nervous system coach now in our program who's doing monthly sessions to help our clients identify where they're getting stuck, how their self-talk is affecting them, and kind of how they can support their nervous system.
• 25:51
  Dr. Heather Finley: So the bottom line is SIBO isn't the problem.
• 25:54
  Dr. Heather Finley: It's your gut and your body raising its hand saying, Hey, something else isn't working here, and this has happened as a result.
• 26:02
  Dr. Heather Finley: So the only way truly out of this cycle is to zoom out and actually listen.
• 26:07
  Dr. Heather Finley: So the goal is to balance your gut.
• 26:10
  Dr. Heather Finley: It's not just about bacteria.
• 26:13
  Dr. Heather Finley: So we don't wanna ask the question, how do I kill the sibo?
• 26:17
  Dr. Heather Finley: It's, why did it show up here?
• 26:18
  Dr. Heather Finley: And how do I change this environment?
• 26:21
  Dr. Heather Finley: So one of the most important mindset shifts I wanna leave you with, that so many of our clients come to us with, especially after multiple rounds of antibiotics or even antimicrobials.
• 26:33
  Dr. Heather Finley: Is they often say I, I felt better for a little while, but it always came back.
• 26:38
  Dr. Heather Finley: And the reason is because they're focusing only on killing bacteria and never really on restoring the gut environment.
• 26:46
  Dr. Heather Finley: You can't just empty your house, you have to rebuild it.
• 26:49
  Dr. Heather Finley: We have to rebuild digestive function from top.
• 26:52
  Dr. Heather Finley: Down, starting with your brain, your nervous system, how your body responds to stress and healing is not about controlling every food or even running test after test.
• 27:04
  Dr. Heather Finley: It's about creating internal conditions where your gut can actually function again.
• 27:09
  Dr. Heather Finley: So we wanna focus on supporting motility that looks like daily bowel movements, nervous system regulation, minerals, gentle movement.
• 27:17
  Dr. Heather Finley: We wanna replenish minerals.
• 27:19
  Dr. Heather Finley: We want to.
• 27:21
  Dr. Heather Finley: Add in mineral rich foods, we wanna use mineral mocktails, or even custom mineral blends for a lot of our clients because they fuel every part of digestion.
• 27:31
  Dr. Heather Finley: We want to repopulate microbes.
• 27:33
  Dr. Heather Finley: We're gonna introduce prebiotic foods gradually.
• 27:36
  Dr. Heather Finley: We're gonna add targeted probiotics when it's appropriate.
• 27:39
  Dr. Heather Finley: We're gonna build diversity and resilience in your gut.
• 27:42
  Dr. Heather Finley: We wanna add in stress and nervous system regulation.
• 27:45
  Dr. Heather Finley: So that can be vagus nerve activation, that can be breath work, grounding nervous system tools, eating in a relaxed state, sleep and safety, and then improve the gut terrain.
• 27:55
  Dr. Heather Finley: So this is the foundation.
• 27:57
  Dr. Heather Finley: Think of it like your soil health.
• 27:58
  Dr. Heather Finley: Hydration, sleep, bile flow, joy, connection, purpose, even pleasure can support digestion.
• 28:06
  Dr. Heather Finley: And that could be silly things like watching a movie that you like, finding downtime.
• 28:11
  Dr. Heather Finley: And yes, this takes time.
• 28:14
  Dr. Heather Finley: It's really easy to think oh, I have gut issues.
• 28:16
  Dr. Heather Finley: I just need to fix them, and then I'll never have to deal with gut issues again.
• 28:20
  Dr. Heather Finley: But the reality is, your gut journey is exactly that.
• 28:25
  Dr. Heather Finley: It's a journey.
• 28:26
  Dr. Heather Finley: It's not a destination.
• 28:27
  Dr. Heather Finley: And so we want to develop habits and foundations that you can do for the rest of your life.
• 28:33
  Dr. Heather Finley: Uh, we don't wanna just focus on what you need to take and get it over with.
• 28:39
  Dr. Heather Finley: It's about how you live, how you nourish yourself, how you support the systems that help you to feel your best and keep you well.
• 28:48
  Dr. Heather Finley: So hopefully you're getting from this that you might not need another round of SIBO treatment.
• 28:54
  Dr. Heather Finley: Right now you need to understand your why.
• 28:56
  Dr. Heather Finley: Then you can fix the sibo.
• 28:58
  Dr. Heather Finley: We do SIBO protocols all the time, but not until we've identified all the missing pieces and all the root causes.
• 29:06
  Dr. Heather Finley: We don't wanna follow the standard approach because we're gonna end up in the same place.
• 29:11
  Dr. Heather Finley: And.
• 29:12
  Dr. Heather Finley: The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again with not any better of results.
• 29:18
  Dr. Heather Finley: So you need a whole body root cause strategy that rebuilds from the top down.
• 29:23
  Dr. Heather Finley: And when you do that, you really stop managing symptoms and you finally start to heal.
• 29:28
  Dr. Heather Finley: So in the next episode where we're talking about sibo, we are going to dig into a little bit more about SIBO treatments, et cetera.
• 29:39
  Dr. Heather Finley: But here's your next step.
• 29:40
  Dr. Heather Finley: If you're listening and thinking, this is me, I've done all the protocols and nothing sticks, you have two things that I'm gonna leave you with.
• 29:48
  Dr. Heather Finley: Number one is our free quiz.
• 29:49
  Dr. Heather Finley: We have a free quiz that is simple and short and will help you uncover.
• 29:54
  Dr. Heather Finley: What is not working digestion wise and what could be driving your symptoms behind the scenes?
• 30:00
  Dr. Heather Finley: It takes about two minutes.
• 30:01
  Dr. Heather Finley: You'll get a action plan after with some resources that is completely free, so you can do that.
• 30:07
  Dr. Heather Finley: Or if you're ready to just get personalized support, you can apply for one-on-one support through the program.
• 30:15
  Dr. Heather Finley: We'll use advanced testing like the GI Map and the HTMA to tailor your plan from day one.
• 30:22
  Dr. Heather Finley: And just a quick note on that, the investment for Gut together is increasing on August 1st.
• 30:28
  Dr. Heather Finley: Unfortunately, lab costs have just continued to go up, so if you've been thinking about applying, now is the time.
• 30:36
  Dr. Heather Finley: Apply before August 1st, and you'll lock in our current price, even if you choose a start date a couple days after that.
• 30:43
  Dr. Heather Finley: So get on my calendar if you'd like to chat through your case and we can make sure it's a good mutual fit and see about working together.
• 30:53
  Dr. Heather Finley: So.
• 30:54
  Dr. Heather Finley: Thank you so much for tuning in today.
• 30:56
  Dr. Heather Finley: If you found this helpful, I'd love a rating and review.
• 30:59
  Dr. Heather Finley: That's the best way to share this show, especially because we are a small show.
• 31:04
  Dr. Heather Finley: We have less than a hundred episodes, and the way that people find it is through ratings and reviews.
• 31:09
  Dr. Heather Finley: So share it with someone.
• 31:11
  Dr. Heather Finley: Leave a rating and review.
• 31:12
  Dr. Heather Finley: If you send me a screenshot, I'll send you something.
• 31:15
  Dr. Heather Finley: You just have to email your review to our support.
• 31:18
  Dr. Heather Finley: Which I'll put in the show notes.
• 31:19
  Dr. Heather Finley: So thanks for tuning in and see you on the next episode.