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21 Short Stories About Pittsburgh Sports History · Pittsburgh Sports Memories

0:00
SPEAKER_02: Hello, and welcome to another episode of Pittsburgh Sports Memories.
0:04
SPEAKER_02: Um, in this episode, we are going to cover the short story.
0:09
SPEAKER_02: 21 of them, to be in fact.
0:12
SPEAKER_02: And uh, there'll be 21 stories about Pittsburgh Sports Memories.
0:16
SPEAKER_02: And uh, I am a person that's not very short, so my name is Steve Wirt, and I'm 5'11 in uh some other odd pounds.
0:25
SPEAKER_02: And uh, Tim, uh, how tall are you?
0:27
SPEAKER_03: Uh I'm Tim Hannon and I'm 6'2.
0:30
SPEAKER_02: Wow, I didn't know you're you're taller than me, Tim.
0:34
SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah, apparently.
0:35
SPEAKER_02: Oh, okay.
0:35
SPEAKER_02: I'm only 5'11, so never made it to six foot.
0:54
SPEAKER_02: Um, so the short story, you know, Tim, it's truly an American invention.
0:58
SPEAKER_02: It was uh refined by legendary authors such as Edgar Allan Poe, Washington Irving, John Steinbeck, F.
1:05
SPEAKER_02: Scott Fitzgerald.
1:06
SPEAKER_02: Heck, even Stephen King, you know, this the Shawshank Redemption was based on a short story by him.
1:13
SPEAKER_02: So, in honor of all these authors, and uh in light of our definitely our listeners' short attention span, um, we're going to uh we're gonna get into uh the short stories that uh from Pittsburgh Sports.
1:25
SPEAKER_02: It's just kind of a collection of them.
1:27
SPEAKER_02: There's no you know running thread or anything like that.
1:30
SPEAKER_02: So um, so gather up your adult adderall and Riddling and you know control your HDAD ADHD for at least an hour.
1:39
SPEAKER_02: So Tim, you were a child of the 80s.
1:44
SPEAKER_02: Do you remember what you were doing on May 25th, 1986?
1:49
SPEAKER_03: Uh I was probably sitting in I don't know, third grade, fourth grade at that point.
1:56
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so I remember this.
1:57
SPEAKER_02: This is the uh time that Hands Across America interrupted a pirate game.
2:04
SPEAKER_02: Hands Across America.
2:06
SPEAKER_02: There's a cool little song.
2:08
SPEAKER_02: Like now, the 80s were kind of an interesting time.
2:11
SPEAKER_02: It all kind of started with a guy named Bob Geldoff who saw that there were people in Africa that were starving to death.
2:17
SPEAKER_02: So he decided to start a charity with all his famous rock star friends who had made a lot of money.
2:24
SPEAKER_02: And he started this thing called We Are the World.
2:27
SPEAKER_02: And they made like a video, and everybody was anybody at that time, from Kenny Rogers to uh Quincy Jones to Michael Jackson to Bruce Springsteen, wrote a song and they had a concert, and they raised all these money all this money for like Live Aid Africa or something like that was the name of the concert.
2:48
SPEAKER_02: So, in such I tell you that backstory to inform everyone that you know in the 1980s there was kind of like the era of like you know big charity celebrity events.
3:00
SPEAKER_02: So Hands Across America was very much like this.
3:03
SPEAKER_02: It was to help hungry children, and who doesn't, you know, nobody wants to see a kid go hungry.
3:08
SPEAKER_02: And uh, you know, so Pete Rose uh was the manager of the Cincinnati Reds at the time, but he was also a co-chairman of the project, and he actually wanted to stop the game so they could have like the hand chain go across like Three River Stadium, but they wouldn't do that, so they decided just to play the game.
3:29
SPEAKER_02: So before the game, they had a ceremonial hand chain, and that went across the field with uh people like uh it was Dave.
3:40
SPEAKER_02: Let's see, we had uh Rick Rushel, Sammy Khalifa, Sid Bream, Tony Pena, Bill Allman, who I loved, one of my favorite, and they were joined by uh Dave Parker, um, and Pirate President Malcolm Prine, whoever he is.
3:57
SPEAKER_02: So they did that about 20 minutes before the game.
4:00
SPEAKER_02: And then at 3 o'clock, when the actual Hands Across America started, they did it across the dugout with the pirate parrot and little eaglers.
4:08
SPEAKER_02: Actually, the um the pirates had given a bunch of tickets to Little Eagles, and they they stood atop this and they did all this.
4:15
SPEAKER_02: There's a music video and everything for it.
4:17
SPEAKER_02: Uh, we'll hook that link up in our descriptions of this um podcast, and you can watch that and sing along and hold your hands up.
4:25
SPEAKER_02: The line did make it across.
4:27
SPEAKER_02: They said if they would have arranged the line correctly, it would have made it from New York to San Francisco or LA.
4:35
SPEAKER_02: They would have made it to the coast, but I think it was LA.
4:38
SPEAKER_02: It got got a little broken up like in some of the western states because they just didn't have the people spread out correctly.
4:44
SPEAKER_02: But even President Reagan gave a uh, you know.
4:48
SPEAKER_02: Do you remember this at all, Tim?
4:50
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I I remember Hands Across America vaguely.
4:52
SPEAKER_03: I definitely remember the We Are the World song or songs.
4:57
SPEAKER_03: And and I and I remember back then the the big focus on the starving children in Africa because our teachers always use that to guilt trip us in eating our lunches.
5:09
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
5:10
SPEAKER_03: You know, there's starving kids in Africa, and you're leaving half a sandwich on your plate.
5:15
SPEAKER_02: Tisk, tisk, tisk.
5:17
SPEAKER_03: Right.
5:18
SPEAKER_02: Uh, for his part, Pete Rose, Cincinnati's player manager, who had maybe or maybe not some money grinded on the game.
5:27
SPEAKER_02: Uh didn't participate in the pregame ceremony, although he is co-chairman of the project.
5:32
SPEAKER_02: I'm proud to be an American today, he said, and I'm proud of what was accomplished, he said.
5:37
SPEAKER_02: But I get paid to get my team ready to play baseball game.
5:41
SPEAKER_02: I'm happy that everything worked out without stopping the game.
5:44
SPEAKER_04: So nice.
5:47
SPEAKER_02: Uh number two on our list is Jim Basilli.
5:52
SPEAKER_02: Basilli, I think is how you pronounce it.
5:54
SPEAKER_02: Do you remember this gentleman?
5:55
SPEAKER_02: Do you know who he is, Tim?
5:56
SPEAKER_02: Outside of the hockey world, do you know who he is?
5:59
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, he did the um uh um oh I can't remember the name of them, the the portable, the the smartphones before they were smartphones.
6:07
SPEAKER_02: The Blackberry, he was Blackberries, yes.
6:09
SPEAKER_02: He was the inventor of the blackberry, not better, he sold over the company and ran the company that did the Blackberry.
6:15
SPEAKER_02: If you don't know what a Blackberry is, it was a phone that actually had a physical um keyboard on it.
6:22
SPEAKER_03: And a stylus, yeah.
6:23
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and you could write emails, get emails, surf the internet, all that, and that was like, I don't know, what was that 2000?
6:32
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, late 90s, early 2000s.
6:35
SPEAKER_02: Like the iPhone had not come out yet.
6:37
SPEAKER_02: So in 2006 of that year, this guy comes along, and uh the penguins don't have financing for the arena yet.
6:46
SPEAKER_02: And so Mario and Ron Burkle try to sell the team.
6:50
SPEAKER_02: Um, this guy Jim Basili is from Canada.
6:53
SPEAKER_02: Um, that's where Blackberry was based out of.
6:55
SPEAKER_02: He actually bid$185 million to buy the Penguins.
6:59
SPEAKER_02: Um, but unfortunately, the NHL actually made the right call, and they would not let him move the team out of Pittsburgh, and that was kind of his goal in getting control of a hockey team, is he wanted to move them to what is it?
7:13
SPEAKER_02: Hamilton.
7:14
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it was Hamilton, yeah.
7:16
SPEAKER_02: Hamilton, yeah.
7:17
SPEAKER_02: And I mean, which is like I don't know why the Toronto team would want that, because that's kind of like killing your market there.
7:25
SPEAKER_02: So, but I mean, maybe uh, you know, Canada's hockey crazy enough to support two teams in that market, maybe not.
7:33
SPEAKER_02: But you know, the Penguins, once they saw that, uh, Mario and Ron Burkle were not going, especially Mary was not going to let the Penguins move out of Pittsburgh.
7:41
SPEAKER_02: And I think the NHL saw that this was a really solid hockey market, and they would just be kind of like killing it for not much when they could probably get an arena deal.
7:50
SPEAKER_02: And that's what ended up happening.
7:52
SPEAKER_02: Um, the team backed out.
7:54
SPEAKER_02: Uh, Mario kept the$10 million deposit that the guy gave him, that Jim Basili gave him.
8:00
SPEAKER_02: And then he tried this again with two other teams.
8:03
SPEAKER_02: He tried to buy Nashville, which I don't think Nashville, Nashville seems like a pretty solid market for hockey.
8:09
SPEAKER_02: Arizona, all right, I can see your point.
8:12
SPEAKER_02: They they never had great attendance and they never made a lot of money there.
8:16
SPEAKER_02: And they did eventually move to Utah, but I guess once again, I don't think the people who own Toronto or the corporation that alone, I don't think I don't think it's a person anymore.
8:25
SPEAKER_02: I think it's like a corporation that owns the Maple Leafs was ever going to let him move a team to Hamilton.
8:30
SPEAKER_03: So Yeah, and it's a shame too, because all that um BlackBerry money was gonna last forever, I'm sure.
8:38
SPEAKER_02: Well, that's funny.
8:38
SPEAKER_02: When he saw the uh iPhone, he was like, Well, where's the uh where's the keyboard?
8:43
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and it always made sense to me the way iPhone did it.
8:47
SPEAKER_02: That design seemed better.
8:49
SPEAKER_02: Like, why wouldn't you just have a keyboard pop up, you know, rather than have a whole separate keyboard?
8:54
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
8:55
SPEAKER_02: And you could it seemed much more efficient way of doing it.
8:57
SPEAKER_02: And so like the BlackBerry suffered from it wasn't very user-friendly.
9:02
SPEAKER_02: Like, where I remember the first time I used an iPhone, I thought, because I was skeptical.
9:07
SPEAKER_02: I thought, well, why do I need a phone that goes on the internet or you know, all this stuff?
9:11
SPEAKER_02: And then once I saw that it like it basically combined like a computer, an iPod, and an iPad, I was like, this is great.
9:19
SPEAKER_02: And it was so intuitive.
9:20
SPEAKER_02: I was like, even old people will be able to use this.
9:24
SPEAKER_03: So yeah, yeah, it was it was groundbreaking.
9:27
SPEAKER_03: But I mean, uh to be fair to old Jim Basili, the Blackberry was pretty pretty cool when it came out.
9:34
SPEAKER_03: I I remember the first time I saw that, I was going to pit for graduate school, and I was like, wow, you can like hold this thing in your hand and you know get on the internet and send email and all that kind of stuff, and that was that was pretty amazing at the time.
9:48
SPEAKER_02: So even text messages hadn't developed to where they are now, where I remember that when it switched all from I was one of the fast people to switch from text from calling to texting, and now the younger generation, you just can't call them.
10:02
SPEAKER_02: You have to text them.
10:03
SPEAKER_02: They they won't answer their phone.
10:05
SPEAKER_03: So yeah, yeah.
10:06
SPEAKER_03: I'm I'm I'm not above that either, Steve.
10:09
SPEAKER_02: Old man rant off.
10:12
SPEAKER_02: Um answer your phone, Tim, when I call.
10:16
SPEAKER_02: Never.
10:18
SPEAKER_02: Um so number three on our fun time list of these stories is um do you remember the Pittsburgh Crawfords, Tim?
10:26
SPEAKER_02: No, because they were in the 1930s.
10:28
SPEAKER_02: But you know of them, they were the Negro League baseball team that was opposite of the Homestead Grays, put together by a gentleman named Gus Greenley and Cumberland Posey, who actually was the manager.
10:41
SPEAKER_02: I think uh Cumberland Posey is actually in the baseball hall of fame.
10:45
SPEAKER_02: So what happened was there's a dictator in Hispaniola.
10:49
SPEAKER_02: Do you know where Hispaniola is, Tim?
10:51
SPEAKER_03: No.
10:53
SPEAKER_02: Well, that's the name that the island was given by a little guy named Christopher Columbus.
10:57
SPEAKER_02: I know we're not allowed to talk about him much, but Christopher Columbus did, when he sailed the ocean blue in 1492, did discover some islands down there, and he named the one Hispaniola, and that would have been the DR Dominican Republic.
11:14
SPEAKER_02: So in the Dominican Republic, they had a dictator named Rafael Trulo, and this guy was a pretty uh character there.
11:21
SPEAKER_02: He was a cattle wrestler, forger, general, all-around criminal, it seems like.
11:26
SPEAKER_02: And so he decided to, you know, I guess, you know, show off for his people that he conquered or ran the country.
11:32
SPEAKER_02: He was going to get the best team that money could buy.
11:35
SPEAKER_02: So he went out and he gave his agent$30,000, and they went and recruited Satchel Page, the great pitcher who was playing for the Crawfords at that, the Pittsburgh Crawfords at that point, and offered him$30,000, which they said equivalent to$675,000.
11:53
SPEAKER_03: Wow.
11:53
SPEAKER_02: And they was supposed to get most of and six of his teammates.
11:57
SPEAKER_02: And um, you know, the guy like actually pulled blocked his way out of the car with his like limo and pointed a gun at him.
12:06
SPEAKER_02: Like it was a pretty um you know, offer you can't refused kind of scenario.
12:13
SPEAKER_02: So they they they went there and I guess Satchel they ended up barnstorming.
12:18
SPEAKER_02: Um, Satchel Page took more money than he gave the other players, which pissed off all the other players of named, you know, Cumberland Posey, Grass Greenley, and the other guys.
12:27
SPEAKER_02: Um they said Trulo's henchmen look like a firing squad, and they're they were afraid to like lose a game because you know it's kind of like losing a game when you're a coach of the Soviet Union.
12:40
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
12:42
SPEAKER_02: He not might not make it back, huh?
12:44
SPEAKER_02: And they they had to play uh against another team, I guess, in this league.
12:50
SPEAKER_02: And they entered the ninth inning and they blew an 8-3 lead before his team, Crawford's team, uh, or Satchel Page's team, that pulled out the 8-6 win.
13:00
SPEAKER_02: And um fans rated his performance at best mixed.
13:05
SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, and and when he came back, when Satchel Page came back to the United States, the nobody was happy with him since he took all that money and played for a dictator and almost got everybody killed.
13:17
SPEAKER_02: I can't see why people were mad at him.
13:21
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I I could see that being a problem.
13:24
SPEAKER_03: At least they didn't have to play against the dictator.
13:27
SPEAKER_02: Because that would have been dicey, like like Kin Jamung or something.
13:31
SPEAKER_02: Yes, he hit three home runs.
13:32
SPEAKER_02: Right.
13:32
SPEAKER_02: He most definitely did.
13:34
SPEAKER_02: Right.
13:35
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
13:36
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
13:37
SPEAKER_02: So uh number four on our list is a gentleman named Roy Jefferson.
13:44
SPEAKER_02: Um, and you might say, who is Roy Jefferson?
13:46
SPEAKER_02: Well, Roy Jefferson was a Steeler receiver in the late 60s.
13:51
SPEAKER_02: Um, he actually made the Pro Bowl in 68 and 69.
13:55
SPEAKER_02: He was actually a pretty good player.
13:57
SPEAKER_02: Um, so what happened was I guess Chuck Knowle, when he took over the team, got sick of dealing with him because he had done some things like parking in the staff parking spots, and uh he had not worn like he would come to practice and be like, Oh, I'm not wearing my helmet.
14:14
SPEAKER_02: Like I get the feeling these were passive aggressive things because as with a couple of these stories, there's like some like uh what I want to say, like this is back when the league and the union really weren't getting along, and so this guy was kind of like really pro-union and trying to get a better contract.
14:34
SPEAKER_02: So he would he would he stayed out past curfew during a preseason game in Montreal against the Giants.
14:41
SPEAKER_02: So I guess Chuck Knoll just figured, well, I'm kind of sick sick of this.
14:45
SPEAKER_02: So he traded him for Willie Richardson from the Colts, who was kind of like a troublemaker on the Colts.
14:53
SPEAKER_02: And so when this happened, that this Richardson guy only played in the preseason, and he only had a verbal contract, I guess, with the Steelers, and he's like, Well, I want to renegotiate my verbal contract, and the Steelers are like, No, you have a written contract, and they got sick of him acting up, much like Jefferson had been, you know, D like very involved with the union.
15:19
SPEAKER_02: This guy, kind of the same thing, he was like very he didn't do much.
15:22
SPEAKER_02: I was saying Willie Richards, and they traded him to the Dolphins and Don Shula, and so they uh he didn't do much down there, and they just got they got rid of him, and so they end up trading Roy Jefferson.
15:36
SPEAKER_02: Now you you could say for nothing, but they did get a fourth round draft pick from the Colts in the original deal when they traded Roy Jefferson for Willie Richardson.
15:46
SPEAKER_02: And do you have any idea what the fourth round draft pick that they got who they ended up drafting?
15:52
SPEAKER_03: Uh somebody notable, I'm assuming.
15:55
SPEAKER_02: Yes, Dwight White.
15:56
SPEAKER_02: So it all you know, in a roundabout way, it all kind of worked out for the Steelers.
16:02
SPEAKER_02: Um, Roy Jefferson um did end up winning a Super Bowl V with the Colts.
16:09
SPEAKER_02: So it wasn't a complete, like he ended up being a very solid player where Willie Richardson did not.
16:16
SPEAKER_02: So I mean it was just kind of a trade of like, oh, we got this guy that isn't going to get along with us on the Steelers.
16:22
SPEAKER_02: We got this guy that isn't happy in Indianapolis.
16:25
SPEAKER_02: He was kind of buried on the depth chart.
16:26
SPEAKER_02: Let's trade our troublemakers, and then that Willie Richardson just caused more trouble in the preseason than he was worth, and they were like, Oh, see ya.
16:35
SPEAKER_03: So, Steve, you're telling me that they were troublemaker wide receivers even before Mike Tomlin.
16:40
SPEAKER_03: I find that hard to believe.
16:42
SPEAKER_02: Yes, believe it or not.
16:44
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, didn't didn't Antonio Brown have like the same kind of problem with his helmet or something like that with the Raiders?
16:50
SPEAKER_02: And like it's very similar to the Brown thing.
16:53
SPEAKER_03: So yeah.
16:54
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and and that's happened over and over again here and in other NFL places where you you can put up with so much if the guy's productive and he's helping your team, but at that point the Steelers weren't very good anyway.
17:09
SPEAKER_03: And Chuck Knoll, I think, just wanted to change the whole culture.
17:12
SPEAKER_03: So I get getting rid of him.
17:14
SPEAKER_03: It kind of stunk that he's a pro bowl receiver, you should have been able to get a little bit more for him than they got, but like you said, it worked out.
17:21
SPEAKER_02: Well, I think I think too, like just him pulling all this little stuff.
17:25
SPEAKER_02: I think first it was like, you know, I'm in the union and I want this better money, and then you're just gonna pull like petty moves, and you know, you're a first your first or second year coach, and it's just like, no, I'm not putting up with it.
17:39
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that that's exactly what happened.
17:44
SPEAKER_02: So num number five, um, did you know Jack Lambert and Mick Jagger have a connection, Tim?
17:50
SPEAKER_03: Ooh, that sounds interesting.
17:52
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
17:53
SPEAKER_02: So should I start him up?
17:55
SPEAKER_02: Uh-huh.
17:56
SPEAKER_02: Um, so Nick Saban was telling a story.
18:00
SPEAKER_02: It's actually story comes to us via Nick Saban.
18:03
SPEAKER_02: And he said he uh because I Nick Saban played college football with Lambert.
18:07
SPEAKER_02: They were both at Kent State in the early 1970s.
18:10
SPEAKER_02: And so uh Lambert actually he was playing defensive end and he moved to middle linebacker.
18:16
SPEAKER_02: Now that doesn't it sounds like just a coaching decision, actually goes deeper than that.
18:21
SPEAKER_02: The Kent State football team would often work security concerts, and heading into Lambert's junior year, the team was doing their security for a Rolling Stones concert in Cleveland.
18:32
SPEAKER_02: Well, Cleveland being Cleveland, someone decided to throw something at Mick Jagger as he was walking off stage.
18:41
SPEAKER_02: So the team's starting middle linebacker, a guy named Bob Bender, saw what was about to happen.
18:47
SPEAKER_02: And what do you do when a pass is in the air, Tim?
18:51
SPEAKER_02: Bat it down.
18:52
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, he knocked it down.
18:53
SPEAKER_02: So um, and that that obviously like impressed Mick Jagger, and he pointed him out.
18:58
SPEAKER_02: This Bender guy and said, Hey, hire him.
19:01
SPEAKER_02: So Bender like didn't show up for like football camp, and he was like, All right, I'm just gonna go tour with the Rolling Stones, which sounds way cooler than playing for Kent State, but uh it worked out for uh Jack Lambert because he he moved to there and um he actually had a uh big goal line stand, he tackled the NFL running back in the champ MAC championship game, Bob Hitchens, and uh you know four times in a row, Lambert stopped them, so it ended up like kind of launching Jack Lambert's career as a middle linebacker.
19:37
SPEAKER_03: Wow, so Jack Lambert doesn't end up playing for the Steelers if not for Mick Jagger.
19:43
SPEAKER_02: If Mick Jagger isn't so impressed with Bob Bender or whatever his name is, it's pretty cool.
19:51
SPEAKER_02: I mean I can't imagine that Jack Lambert wasn't better than this Bender guy.
19:55
SPEAKER_02: I mean, what did he ever do after this?
19:57
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but that that sometimes that happens where if you don't get the chance to prove it, you know?
20:02
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
20:03
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I hope and now Bob Bender definitely wasn't running security in Altmont Freeway later in the Rolling Stones.
20:10
SPEAKER_03: I hope not.
20:11
SPEAKER_03: Well, yeah, because that was the Hell's Angels.
20:13
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
20:14
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, the Rolling Stones weren't very good at picking security people, were they?
20:20
SPEAKER_03: I think that actually was before this, Steve.
20:22
SPEAKER_03: I think that was in the 60s.
20:23
SPEAKER_02: Maybe they learned their lesson.
20:24
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
20:25
SPEAKER_03: Because that was in the um the American Pisong.
20:29
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
20:30
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that that incident's referenced there.
20:32
SPEAKER_03: So then that was early 70s, I think.
20:35
SPEAKER_03: Don't quote me on any of this, but I'm pretty sure that would have been before before all this.
20:39
SPEAKER_03: So maybe you're right.
20:40
SPEAKER_03: Maybe maybe that's why Nick was like, ooh, let's get this guy.
20:43
SPEAKER_03: He seems not only good at deflecting things.
20:46
SPEAKER_02: He could stop our fans from stabbing each other in the middle of a concert.
20:50
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, he batted down the uh the object instead of picking up the object and and murdering the guy with it.
20:57
SPEAKER_02: Fair enough.
21:00
SPEAKER_02: Um, number six, Tim, and I know you experienced this because I sure did.
21:05
SPEAKER_02: The 2008 Sun Bowl.
21:08
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, classic.
21:10
SPEAKER_02: It's it's on ESPN classic every year.
21:12
SPEAKER_02: You know, it's right up there with the catch, or you know, the Stanford Band or Doug Flutie's Hail Mary, the kick six, you know.
21:20
SPEAKER_02: I mean, all those great plays in college football history, and you have the 2008 Sun Bowl.
21:26
SPEAKER_02: So, I mean, about the second uh the first quarter, I remember there was a pass by the quarterback for Oregon State, and the linebacker from Pitt dropped the ball, and it would have been an easy interception and touchdown.
21:37
SPEAKER_02: I thought, well, you know, that happens.
21:39
SPEAKER_02: I'm sure Pitt will get other chances at the end zone.
21:42
SPEAKER_02: And then, like, I think they they kicked a field goal in the second in in the second period, and it was at the 214 mark, and that made the game three to nothing, Tim.
21:55
SPEAKER_02: And there's no way a game could end three to nothing.
21:58
SPEAKER_02: Well, it Did um do you know who the halftime um performer was of this game?
22:07
SPEAKER_03: I do not.
22:09
SPEAKER_02: It's a little group called the Village People.
22:12
SPEAKER_02: Oh, nice.
22:13
SPEAKER_02: So Donald Trump would have been happy.
22:15
SPEAKER_03: Um sure that was the most entertaining part of the game.
22:18
SPEAKER_02: Well, yeah, they they actually during halftime they broke the guinn they yeah, made the Guinness World Record for largest YMCA dance featuring the village people.
22:27
SPEAKER_02: Nice.
22:28
SPEAKER_02: Um, unfortunately, there were no village people that could have impersonated a college quarterback because Bill Stahl, these stats are pretty impressive.
22:38
SPEAKER_02: He was seven out of 24 for 52 yards passing.
22:42
SPEAKER_02: Uh, they brought in Pat Bostick, because I don't know if I think Stahl got hurt or something.
22:46
SPEAKER_02: And Pat Bostick was two for three for 37 yards.
22:50
SPEAKER_02: Lashawn McCoy wasn't much better.
22:52
SPEAKER_02: 24 attempts for 85 yards.
22:54
SPEAKER_02: I just remember at the end of the game, like they started just running the Wildcat.
22:58
SPEAKER_02: They were just like, okay, it was like Pat Bostik was like your little brother.
23:01
SPEAKER_02: Just go over there and stand.
23:02
SPEAKER_02: Just just go over there.
23:03
SPEAKER_02: We're we're gonna play football over here.
23:06
SPEAKER_02: And it's uh it it's probably one of the most boring and frustrating.
23:10
SPEAKER_02: Connor Lee missed a late field goal at the end of the game to tie it, which I mean that would have been the only justice in the world is this game going into overtime, you know, 3-3.
23:21
SPEAKER_02: God help us.
23:22
SPEAKER_02: And I do remember one of the pit players was actually the MVP of the bowl game.
23:26
SPEAKER_02: It was one of the defensive linemen, and he wasn't even there because like he ran in the the locker room figuring who wants to see like somebody just lost a game three to nothing.
23:35
SPEAKER_03: So yeah, that was that was on New Year's Eve in 2008.
23:39
SPEAKER_03: I remember watching that.
23:40
SPEAKER_03: And and you'd think a game that's 3-0 would be because of rain or snow or adverse weather conditions.
23:49
SPEAKER_03: It was in it was in El Paso, it was beautiful weather, it was sunny, it was perfect, it was just a terrible, awful, awful game.
23:58
SPEAKER_02: It wasn't even good defense, it was bad offense.
24:01
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's exactly right.
24:03
SPEAKER_03: I mean, I I can't I if you had if you had to choose all the games I've ever watched in my entire life and and force me to watch one again.
24:12
SPEAKER_02: That's worse than that the rain game in the mud where the punt you know sunk in the mud.
24:18
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that was also three to nothing, but but that made sense because the field was a quagmire and it was pouring down rain and and it was ankle-deep mud.
24:26
SPEAKER_03: That that that at least was interesting.
24:28
SPEAKER_03: This was just, like you said, bad football.
24:31
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
24:33
SPEAKER_02: So, Tim, the most memorable parts of our life, what would you say?
24:36
SPEAKER_02: Birth of a child, you know, getting married.
24:39
SPEAKER_03: Marriage.
24:40
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that kind of stuff.
24:42
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, watching the Steelers win Super Bowl 40.
24:44
SPEAKER_02: You know, it's up there, right?
24:46
SPEAKER_02: Sure, sure.
24:47
SPEAKER_02: Um, so Bruce Keeson, um, he he actually, you know, had a conflict here.
24:53
SPEAKER_02: And I wonder how this would have played out if it would have happened nowadays.
24:56
SPEAKER_02: So this he was to be married October 17th, 1971.
25:01
SPEAKER_02: And Bruce Keyson, of course, is a relief pitcher for the Pirates.
25:04
SPEAKER_02: And um, what do you think might be the problem?
25:07
SPEAKER_03: Uh October of 1971.
25:09
SPEAKER_03: The Pirates were a little occupied playing this World Series.
25:13
SPEAKER_02: And now if the Pirates would have got swept or swept, they they would have been fine, but unfortunately, they had to play seven games, and the seventh game with the World Series fell on October 17th, 1971.
25:25
SPEAKER_02: And Bruce Keyson was supposed to get married, and they would might need him to pitch.
25:30
SPEAKER_02: So um the good news is the Pirates don't need Bruce Keyson or much of anybody else outside of Steve Blass and Roberto Colmeny.
25:39
SPEAKER_02: Um, they win the game two to one, and then Keyson, who was supposed to get married, him and his best man, who's Bob Moose, who's also a pitcher on the Pirates at that time, they get a helicopter from Baltimore's Memorial Stadium to Baltimore's airport.
25:58
SPEAKER_02: They fletch a they catch a chartered plane, and because I think this game was actually during the day, Tim.
26:04
SPEAKER_02: Actually, they catch a chartered plane from Pittsburgh, from Baltimore to Pittsburgh.
26:10
SPEAKER_02: Then they get a police escort from the airport to the country club where he was getting married, and he gets married, he gets married at their um the the fans met him at the wedding, they threw rice, they couldn't get in because it was a private wedding, but I guess as he came out, you know, hey, we're married.
26:29
SPEAKER_02: They were like, Yay, World Series.
26:32
SPEAKER_02: I can't could you imagine if this if this happened nowadays?
26:36
SPEAKER_02: Would would they just postpone the wedding or I well I think first of all, no one they would be smart enough that we're not gonna we'll go and get married to November or something.
26:46
SPEAKER_03: Right, right.
26:46
SPEAKER_03: Now, if you were a pirates player today, you'd be perfectly safe getting married in October, but yeah, I imagine you wouldn't even plan it for for then if that was today.
26:58
SPEAKER_02: But if you did, yeah, what would you like?
27:01
SPEAKER_02: I guess I I don't know.
27:02
SPEAKER_02: Like all the invitations have been sent out.
27:05
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean, if you're a major league baseball player, I'm guessing you can afford to rent the hall for another day or something.
27:14
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
27:15
SPEAKER_02: So that's a fun story.
27:17
SPEAKER_02: How about do you know who Mike Lang and or Greg Brown are?
27:22
SPEAKER_03: Of course, yeah.
27:23
SPEAKER_03: Two local legends.
27:26
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, legends.
27:27
SPEAKER_02: Um, so actually, you know, Greg Brown used to call games for the Buffalo Bills.
27:31
SPEAKER_02: If you remember the uh 35-7 comeback game by the Bills over the Oilers, you know, that was a can you believe it?
27:39
SPEAKER_02: You know, um, so it was actually, you know, Steve Mike Lang who gave Greg Brown his break as an announcer.
27:47
SPEAKER_02: Um, Lang and Steve Blass, because if you remember, Mike, remember Mike Lang used to call baseball games in the 80s.
27:53
SPEAKER_02: They were calling a doubleheader against the Mets and halfway uh in 1986 and halfway through the game, Lang said, Hey, here's this 24-year-old kid named Greg Brown.
28:03
SPEAKER_02: And Greg Brown was just a reporter for the team.
28:06
SPEAKER_02: He's gonna take over and announce the rest of the game.
28:09
SPEAKER_02: And that's a pretty cool thing for Mike Lang, who I think he he was somewhat well established by 1986, right?
28:16
SPEAKER_02: You know, and Lang, apparently Lang wasn't really supposed to do that, he just kind of did it, like he hadn't cleared it with anyone at the Pirates.
28:24
SPEAKER_02: So it's just kind of like Lang saying to you, like Greg Brown saying to you or me, Tim, said, Hey, here's Steve from the Pittsburgh Sports Memories podcast.
28:32
SPEAKER_02: Let's let him call a few, you know, call the rest of this game.
28:35
SPEAKER_02: I'm tired, I'm out of here.
28:37
SPEAKER_02: So um, you know, Brown calls the rest of the game and all the way becomes the pirates' primary announcer.
28:43
SPEAKER_02: I mean, many years later, ten years or so later.
28:46
SPEAKER_02: So they must have been impressed with his you know ability to cover up bad baseball.
28:52
SPEAKER_02: So although I think if you listen to Greg Brown now, he you can tell he's like just given up.
28:58
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
28:59
SPEAKER_03: Can you blame him?
29:00
SPEAKER_03: My goodness, that guy's been through decades of really bad baseball.
29:05
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, really bad baseball.
29:06
SPEAKER_03: But yeah, that's pretty cool that Mike Lang kind of gave him his first big break.
29:10
SPEAKER_03: And like you said, something he was not supposed to do.
29:13
SPEAKER_03: But like you said, he's Mike Lang and he can get away with it.
29:16
SPEAKER_00: Uh he probably wasn't drinking or something.
29:18
SPEAKER_00: It's like, oh, I gotta go drinking.
29:20
SPEAKER_00: Scratch my back with a hacksaw, here you go, brownie.
29:25
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
29:27
SPEAKER_02: So um did you know that a uh pirates uh manager/slash player invented something?
29:33
SPEAKER_02: Do you believe it?
29:35
SPEAKER_03: Time travel?
29:36
SPEAKER_02: No, it wasn't the cure to polio either.
29:38
SPEAKER_02: That was that was Dr.
29:39
SPEAKER_02: Salk.
29:40
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
29:40
SPEAKER_02: Um so uh Fred Clark, who we've covered in 1925 and other Fred Clark was quite the character, apparently.
29:51
SPEAKER_02: And he invented now this is more of like a baby boomer thing.
29:55
SPEAKER_02: I haven't seen them in a long time.
29:56
SPEAKER_02: Did the people even wear these anymore?
29:58
SPEAKER_02: Do you remember flip down sunglasses, Tim?
30:02
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like it's like you flip them up and I can see, and then you flip them down, now I'm shaded in case I gotta look into the sun, which I guess makes sense for like an outfielder, because you know, what if you want to see the ball come off the bat, then you can flip them down real quick, you know.
30:18
SPEAKER_02: But apparently he he invented these way back in 1913, which is crazy.
30:25
SPEAKER_02: Uh he came and devised a cap.
30:28
SPEAKER_02: It actually was a cap.
30:29
SPEAKER_02: I guess it kind of like clipped to the cap, and you bolted right into the oh, he actually bolted it right into the brim.
30:36
SPEAKER_02: Um, the true sunglasses didn't catch on until Foster Grants hit the market in 1929 and polarized lenses became available in 1936.
30:45
SPEAKER_02: So I don't know if these were like you know welding glasses or something, but um well he had a patent on it, right?
30:53
SPEAKER_02: Uh yeah, yeah.
30:55
SPEAKER_03: And and and you're right, I do remember those were popular.
30:58
SPEAKER_03: If you really like if you had regular glasses, but you wanted to wear sunglasses, the clip on, yeah.
31:04
SPEAKER_03: You could just clip them on.
31:06
SPEAKER_03: I I think now now they have those transitions.
31:10
SPEAKER_03: Well well, they have those ones that like automatically tend in the sun.
31:13
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, the transition lessons.
31:14
SPEAKER_02: Is that what they're called?
31:15
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
31:15
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
31:16
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
31:16
SPEAKER_02: That's the name brand, but you you know what we're talking about.
31:19
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
31:20
SPEAKER_02: Because you just look like a dork, like like I gotta flip down my glasses.
31:24
SPEAKER_02: Or like when you have them up, it's like, what are you doing here?
31:27
SPEAKER_02: You look like an idiot.
31:29
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, they they were a little clunky looking.
31:32
SPEAKER_03: But they, I mean, those are around for years and years, though.
31:35
SPEAKER_03: I remember seeing those a ton when I was younger.
31:38
SPEAKER_02: Since 1912, apparently.
31:40
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
31:41
SPEAKER_02: Bolted to your hat.
31:42
SPEAKER_02: So I guess you're stuck with them no matter what.
31:47
SPEAKER_02: I don't know if Fred Clark made much money off of them, but hey, whatever.
31:52
SPEAKER_02: So for number 10, and we're moving right along, we're gonna talk about a gentleman named John Stalworth.
31:59
SPEAKER_02: He's in the Hall of Fame, he's a Steeler wide receiver.
32:02
SPEAKER_02: But before all that, he was playing at a little college called Alabama AM, which not a lot of people would scout, but Bill Nunn did go to these colleges and scout.
32:14
SPEAKER_02: And so the day they get there, they have this organization, if you remember Blesto, I guess at Jack Butler's, and it was the Bears, Lions, Eagles, Steelers, talent organization.
32:25
SPEAKER_02: Well, everybody was watching, and it's a rainy day in the mud, and they're like, ugh, John Stalworth doesn't look very good.
32:31
SPEAKER_02: And so Bill Nunn, like, I got a feeling, you know, this is just a bad day to really judge somebody's speed and talent.
32:38
SPEAKER_02: So he was like, Bill Nunn's like, oh man, I'm feeling good, not good.
32:43
SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh, I think I have the flu from all that rain and stuff yesterday.
32:47
SPEAKER_02: So he stays back and he watches Stalworth and he's impressed.
32:51
SPEAKER_02: And he obtained film of John Stalwart's highlights for the entire season.
32:56
SPEAKER_02: Now, this film was supposed to be sent around the NFL.
33:00
SPEAKER_02: You got to remember, this is a small college in the 60s or 70s, so there isn't a lot of film of this Alabama AM.
33:08
SPEAKER_02: So not a lot of people know about him.
33:10
SPEAKER_02: So as a result, like they the Steelers kind of have the inside track.
33:15
SPEAKER_02: And then in the um championship game, I guess the all-star game, the coaches played Stallworth at defensive back, so nobody knows like anything about him, whether he's a good wide receiver, a bad wide receiver.
33:28
SPEAKER_02: So, you know, that's kind of like they kind of pull the wool over everybody's lie eyes, and they're able to draft Stallworth pretty late in the draft.
33:38
SPEAKER_03: So Yeah, that's amazing.
33:41
SPEAKER_03: And how would you ever have film on a college like that?
33:44
SPEAKER_03: You'd have to you'd have to get it from that's if the college even had film themselves.
33:49
SPEAKER_02: Right.
33:49
SPEAKER_02: Right.
33:50
SPEAKER_02: And like it isn't like today where somebody just filmed it on their phone or whatnot.
33:53
SPEAKER_02: It might bother be quality, but at least you'd have something.
33:57
SPEAKER_03: Well, and like even today they put it on, you know, uh something like a local local cable channel or something.
34:05
SPEAKER_03: There's plenty of uh especially if it was a player that had NFL prospects, they'd have plenty of footage.
34:11
SPEAKER_03: But yeah, that's interesting.
34:12
SPEAKER_03: Back then they didn't, and yeah, I love that story.
34:15
SPEAKER_02: But the film mysteriously vanished.
34:18
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
34:19
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
34:20
SPEAKER_02: Vanished into the backseat of Bill Nunn's back car, yeah.
34:24
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
34:26
SPEAKER_02: So that story kind of dovetails into our tenth story, which is how Lynn Swan almost ended up a Dallas Cowboy.
34:34
SPEAKER_02: So instead of Terry Bradshaw, he could have had Roger Stahlbach.
34:38
SPEAKER_02: Instead of John Stalworth beside him, he could have had uh, what's his name?
34:42
SPEAKER_02: Drew Pearson.
34:44
SPEAKER_02: So because of the Stalworth situation, the Steelers were debating what to do because Chuck Knoll really wanted Stalworth.
34:52
SPEAKER_02: They it was kind of like we know how good he is, but none of the other league knows.
34:56
SPEAKER_02: So they were debating, should we take him with this pick or can we wait later?
35:00
SPEAKER_02: Are we gonna lose out on him?
35:02
SPEAKER_02: But what they did know was Lin Swan was pretty good, and because Lynn Swan played at USC, all the teams kind of knew about him.
35:11
SPEAKER_02: So that was the debate.
35:12
SPEAKER_02: So they waited.
35:14
SPEAKER_02: I guess this debate went on for the whole time limit of the Steelers' draft pick in 1974, that 21st pick, and now Dallas has the 22nd pick.
35:25
SPEAKER_02: And apparently, according to the story, Dallas had the card filled out and ready to go, and it was gonna be Lynn Swan.
35:32
SPEAKER_03: Oh my god.
35:33
SPEAKER_02: And so they get Lynn Swan, they finally make up their mind, Noel and whoever else is running the draft, you know, the Rooney, what is it, Rooney Jr.
35:42
SPEAKER_02: and all of them, and they put it in and they get Swan with like five or ten seconds left to go.
35:48
SPEAKER_02: And Dallas has to, you know, kind of, oh, we got to pick a different guy.
35:52
SPEAKER_02: And that really was that's why I say, like, you got to tell the Stalworth story first because that kind of influences this story.
35:58
SPEAKER_02: Because if more people knew about Stalworth, they obviously thought Stalworth was the better player than Swan, and they would have taken Stalworth if they would have thought you know Dallas or somebody else was gonna pick them before they would get to.
36:13
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's that's crazy.
36:14
SPEAKER_03: Like, especially given how much he beat them in the Super Bowl.
36:18
SPEAKER_03: Like he's the year later, he's the MVP of the Super Bowl to beat Dallas.
36:24
SPEAKER_03: And he was five seconds away from being a cowboy.
36:27
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I think the Cowboys would have been pretty good with him and Pearson instead of Golden Richards.
36:33
SPEAKER_02: I Golden Richards, yeah.
36:35
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
36:36
SPEAKER_02: And uh, I mean, and with they had a pretty good team in their own right.
36:39
SPEAKER_02: Does that swing maybe a Super Bowl another way for Dallas's direction?
36:44
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
36:44
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
36:46
SPEAKER_02: So uh, but don't feel too bad for Dallas.
36:49
SPEAKER_02: Do you know who they took instead of John uh Lin Swan with the 22nd pick?
36:53
SPEAKER_03: Uh Randy White.
36:56
SPEAKER_02: Close.
36:56
SPEAKER_02: Uh Ed Tutal Jones from another small college.
37:01
SPEAKER_02: Uh, I think it was Tennessee State, he played for.
37:03
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
37:04
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, also a pretty good pick.
37:05
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so it wasn't like they totally missed the boat on anything there.
37:11
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
37:13
SPEAKER_02: Well, now we're gonna come to, I guess this is the more one of the this is probably the second most or one of the more tragic stories on our list.
37:21
SPEAKER_02: It all can't be sunshine, sunshine, rainbows, and puppy dogs, Tim.
37:25
SPEAKER_02: Sometimes life happens.
37:27
SPEAKER_02: And um on October 11th, 1959, um, Burt Bell passed away at um a steel, it was actually at a game.
37:35
SPEAKER_02: It was Steelers playing in Philadelphia at Franklin Field.
37:39
SPEAKER_02: Um, he was the NFL commissioner at the time.
37:42
SPEAKER_02: He had been one of the founding members of the Philadelphia Eagles, and he was one of the founders of getting Pennsylvania to play professional football.
37:51
SPEAKER_02: He was one of the people that helped uh repeal the blue laws.
37:55
SPEAKER_02: So he who is Burt Bell, he had played college at Penn, the University of Pennsylvania from 1914 to 1919.
38:01
SPEAKER_02: He was a pretty decent player.
38:03
SPEAKER_02: He was also a World War I veteran, and he got a letter of accommodation for hazardous duty from General Pershing.
38:09
SPEAKER_02: So he was he was pretty up there.
38:11
SPEAKER_02: Um, like I said, founder and member, member of the Eagles.
38:15
SPEAKER_02: Um, and then he had been commissioner since 1949.
38:19
SPEAKER_02: So in 1959, he's been commissioner for 10 years, and I think Burt Bell is the one who also came up with the uh draft, the reverse draft order.
38:29
SPEAKER_02: Like when you finished at the bottom of the league, you got the pick first.
38:32
SPEAKER_02: So that's a revolutionary.
38:34
SPEAKER_02: Like his ideas really revolutionized the way sports have been played.
38:39
SPEAKER_02: Because I guess back then it was like, you know, well, the best team should get the best pick every year.
38:44
SPEAKER_02: It's like, you know, a pick up basketball game, make it take it, you know.
38:48
SPEAKER_02: How do you ever get any better?
38:50
SPEAKER_02: But he realized that parody in negotiating the league as a whole was more effective than just having the Eagles be good every year, that the Eagles would benefit by the whole league being good rather than just Philadelphia, you know.
39:05
SPEAKER_02: So that's very interesting.
39:07
SPEAKER_02: Um, he has a mild heart attack in February of 1959, and his doctor actually recommended he would he shouldn't go to football games.
39:16
SPEAKER_02: But Bert Bell, you know, in a quote that actually kind of I would say a prophetic quote, he said, I'd rather die with my boots on than with them off in bed.
39:29
SPEAKER_02: And another cool thing, and I always thought if I ever it just will never happen, if I ever had like a billion dollars and owned like a team, I'd be like Mark Cuban.
39:36
SPEAKER_02: I I wouldn't sit in the front row, but I'd go and sit in like the cheap seats or like down in the end zone seats, and that's where Burt Bell liked to sit.
39:43
SPEAKER_02: And he'd like to sit with all the fans.
39:45
SPEAKER_02: I guess that could be like you could be taking your life in your hands if they lose, but whatever.
39:50
SPEAKER_02: People are people.
39:51
SPEAKER_02: Um he is uh unfortunately, he died actually during the game, like we said, during the fourth quarter.
39:58
SPEAKER_02: Um uh his sons, Burt Bell Jr.
40:03
SPEAKER_02: and George, were at the game.
40:04
SPEAKER_02: They're actually at the game, but I don't know if they were sitting in the box, they weren't sitting with their father, and they saw the ambulance come onto the field and they were like, Oh my goodness, who's the ambulance for?
40:12
SPEAKER_02: And they're like, It's for your dad.
40:14
SPEAKER_02: You better get down here.
40:15
SPEAKER_02: So they were all very heartbroken, and he actually made it.
40:19
SPEAKER_02: There was a doctor in the stands that tried to attend to him, but he said he was very blue.
40:23
SPEAKER_02: You got to remember this is like 1959, so nobody knows how to do CPR, there's no AEDs at the stadium, all the modern medical equipment, like the best they had to restart a heart was a cardiac injection.
40:38
SPEAKER_02: You know, if you remember pulp fiction where they stab her in the heart, that's that's basically you stab her once or three times, that one time.
40:45
SPEAKER_02: Um so it didn't it didn't work.
40:49
SPEAKER_02: Um, the poor the poor Burt Bell, he dies in the hospital, you know, leaving his family without a father, sons without a father.
40:55
SPEAKER_02: And um just for good measure, uh the Eagles do win that day day.
41:00
SPEAKER_02: Norm Van Brocklin out duels Bobby Lane, and the Eagles win 28 to 31.
41:06
SPEAKER_02: So um kind of a sad story there.
41:08
SPEAKER_02: Um Burt Bell and Art Sr.
41:10
SPEAKER_02: the chief were very good friends.
41:12
SPEAKER_02: They came into the league together, very close, very instrumental, like I said, in uh forming the early NFL.
41:20
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's a that's a sad one.
41:21
SPEAKER_03: Burt Bell actually co-owned the Steelers for a very brief time with Art Rooney, and that that whole thing about the inventing the draft, which like you said, is not only used by the NFL but every other sports league as well.
41:35
SPEAKER_03: That that all happened at uh in Pittsburgh at the Fort Pitt Hotel in Pittsburgh.
41:40
SPEAKER_03: The owners all gathered there for their whatever their like annual meeting, and that's where he pitched the idea of doing a draft with the team with the worst record drafting first, and then so on.
41:52
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, pretty pretty significant figure in the history of sports.
41:56
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and kind of unknown, like you don't really hear a lot about him.
42:00
SPEAKER_02: You hear a lot about Pete Rosell or even um oh Paul Tagleybu, who just passed away.
42:09
SPEAKER_02: So getting back to a uh little less serious story, I mean, I don't consider it very serious.
42:15
SPEAKER_02: Maybe if you're an animal lover, you'll consider it more serious.
42:18
SPEAKER_02: Um for our 13th story, lucky number 13, during the pregame for the outdoor series.
42:24
SPEAKER_02: If you remember, it's uh February 25th, 2017.
42:28
SPEAKER_02: The penguins are playing, I do believe, was it the Flyers or the Capitals?
42:32
SPEAKER_02: I think it was the Flyers.
42:34
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
42:34
SPEAKER_02: And so the Penguins thought, well, this would be really cool.
42:37
SPEAKER_02: We're penguins, let's have some real penguins from the zoo come out on the ice and waddle around and do penguin things.
42:45
SPEAKER_02: And um, so if you ever heard of PETA people for ethical treatment of animals, or I always like people eating tasty animals, which is um they said a strongly worded letter, and the word letter said, It is inherently stressful for wild animals like penguins to be hauled around, use this prop, expose the noisy crowds and with or without explosives going off.
43:15
SPEAKER_02: Uh, the only penguins on ice at Heinz Field should be humans on skates.
43:20
SPEAKER_02: Um, will you please let us know that you won't use live animals for promotions in the future?
43:27
SPEAKER_02: Um, that was PETA's you know complaint.
43:30
SPEAKER_02: And the zoo responded, um, the penguins who attended Winter Classic are some of the same penguins that participate in our weekend penguins on parade event.
43:38
SPEAKER_02: They are very comfortable around people and noises.
43:42
SPEAKER_02: The zoo said the as for the reaction to the fireworks, I guess the fireworks went off and PETA said they were scared.
43:48
SPEAKER_02: He said the fireworks lasted less than 10 seconds before the birds were back to playing on the ice.
43:54
SPEAKER_02: The penguins were terrified in a flight response.
43:57
SPEAKER_02: There's simply no refuting that.
43:59
SPEAKER_02: I I don't know.
44:00
SPEAKER_02: Were they inside the penguins' head?
44:01
SPEAKER_02: Do they know what the penguins were or were not afraid of?
44:05
SPEAKER_02: And they were frightened and attempted to flee, Tim.
44:08
SPEAKER_02: If only those poor penguins could fly, they could have flown back to Antarctica and never seen Pittsburgh ever again.
44:15
SPEAKER_02: But PETA said do better by the animals.
44:18
SPEAKER_02: And they do have like a meet and greet with the penguins, so I don't know.
44:22
SPEAKER_02: Not well, not Sidney Crosby, like penguin penguin, like Emperor Penguin, you know, where you can touch them and stuff.
44:30
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I I don't know.
44:31
SPEAKER_02: I think they just PETA gets too wonky sometimes.
44:35
SPEAKER_02: You know, there might be some people mistreating animals, but I doubt this is the case.
44:41
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, PETA's one of those groups that um I think a lot more people would get behind what they do if they could pick their battles a little just a little bit better.
44:50
SPEAKER_02: Overplaying your hand.
44:53
SPEAKER_03: Well, and they also I think intentionally look for what's the what's gonna get the most you know media attention.
45:01
SPEAKER_03: And that was that was a big event in Pittsburgh, so that would get attention if they complained about that as opposed to something that was maybe a lot more legitimate that maybe people wouldn't have paid attention to.
45:13
SPEAKER_03: I I was at that game, Steve, and uh Were the penguins terrified?
45:20
SPEAKER_03: I did not check on them personally.
45:23
SPEAKER_02: Did you ask them, are you okay?
45:25
SPEAKER_03: They they looked okay, Steve, but penguins are notorious, notoriously, you know, I uh tend to isolate their feelings.
45:33
SPEAKER_02: So they're just very stoic about the whole thing.
45:36
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, no, I don't know.
45:37
SPEAKER_03: The the fireworks were like uh national anthem, like bombs bursting in the air, and they did the thing where they fire them.
45:44
SPEAKER_03: They they do that at Sierra games all the time, too.
45:46
SPEAKER_03: It wasn't like a big fireworks show.
45:49
SPEAKER_03: It was one of those.
45:50
SPEAKER_03: So when they said less than 10 seconds, I think it was it was like one of those deals.
45:53
SPEAKER_03: So I I don't know.
45:54
SPEAKER_03: Hopefully the penguins were okay.
45:56
SPEAKER_03: I I I I'm an animal lover.
45:58
SPEAKER_03: I would hate to see, you know, an animal get used for a purpose that scares them.
46:04
SPEAKER_03: Um, but it, you know, I I would think the Pittsburgh Zoo of all people would be you know very careful and selective about what they're doing.
46:11
SPEAKER_03: They wouldn't just do something uh irresponsible.
46:15
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I I think the penguins are just fine and peanut needs to go get a life.
46:23
SPEAKER_02: So for number 14, um, you know, what's the best, you know, you know, best friends, right?
46:29
SPEAKER_02: You know, me and Tim, right?
46:30
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, there you go.
46:32
SPEAKER_02: I don't know if we're as as good of friends as apparently Ben Rothelsberger and Max Starks, but there's some sort of weird, special, not weird, but it's just a very special bond they have.
46:42
SPEAKER_02: Um Ben Ben Rothelberger actually gave up some salary to get Max Starks.
46:48
SPEAKER_02: Um, I remember after the game-winning drive in Super Bowl 43 that Max Starks compared Ben Rothelsberger to Michael Jordan.
46:58
SPEAKER_02: Um uh Ben one time, uh I guess Max Starks was hurt or in some sort of contract negotiation, actually wore a 78 jersey, which is Max Starks' number.
47:09
SPEAKER_02: Um they both came in the league uh at the same time.
47:13
SPEAKER_02: And um, you know, I I I guess they just you know, very close, and you know, he was his left tackle for many years, and Ben really got along with him for whatever reason.
47:24
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's cool.
47:25
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, Ben Ben was always uh very complimentary and um uh talked a lot about his offensive linemen, even when they weren't very good, which those early years there were some bad offensive lines that he had, but Max Starks was one of the good ones, and Ian Starks were always always very close.
47:48
SPEAKER_02: Alrighty, um Bill Madlock is Pirates manager, Tim.
47:52
SPEAKER_02: Bill Madlock was a third baseman for the Pirates in the late 70s, early 80s.
47:58
SPEAKER_02: Um, and then one day Chuck Tanner decided, hey, I'm gonna let Bill Madlock fill out the lineup cards.
48:04
SPEAKER_02: Or no, he actually Chuck Tanner filled out the lineup cards and let Madlock make all the other decisions.
48:10
SPEAKER_02: So, like when to change the pitcher, who to pinch hit for.
48:14
SPEAKER_02: And uh Tanner said, It's good for him.
48:16
SPEAKER_02: Someday I think he'd be a fine manager.
48:19
SPEAKER_02: It was good for him to be able to do something like this on the last day of the year.
48:22
SPEAKER_02: He got his feet bet, feet wet, and got a chance to see what it's all about.
48:28
SPEAKER_02: During the game, I'd walk back and forth and say to him, Do you want to do this or that?
48:33
SPEAKER_02: And he said, Yeah, make that move.
48:35
SPEAKER_02: It was kind of like it, I was kind of like a counselor for him.
48:38
SPEAKER_02: That was pretty cool of Chuck Tanner to like bring a guy along like that.
48:42
SPEAKER_02: And um, for his for his part, Bill Madlock did end up being a coach with the Detroit Tigers in 2000-2001.
48:50
SPEAKER_02: He reunited with former teammate Phil Garner.
48:53
SPEAKER_02: Um, he was invited by uh Omar Moreno to coach in a professional league in Panama City, Panama.
49:00
SPEAKER_02: In 2003, Madlock was hired to manage the Newark Bears of the Independent Atlantic League, where he went 117 and 134 during two seasons.
49:09
SPEAKER_02: In 2013, he was announced as the manager of the independent league Tiffin Saints.
49:15
SPEAKER_02: So, I mean, he coached in the minors for a little bit.
49:18
SPEAKER_02: It's hard to become a big league manager, but that's pretty cool.
49:21
SPEAKER_02: Pretty cool for him.
49:22
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's that's similar to the Mike Lane, Greg Brown thing.
49:26
SPEAKER_03: Uh-huh.
49:26
SPEAKER_03: Although it would have been a lot better if Chuck Tanner would have been like, I'm gonna go off to the bar here.
49:31
SPEAKER_03: You you decide when when to pinch hit the sky or whatever.
49:35
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, Chuck Tanner was actually kind of like classy and cool about it.
49:39
SPEAKER_02: He'd like, yeah.
49:40
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, and that and I don't think that's official, right?
49:43
SPEAKER_03: Like that doesn't count as him officially managing a game.
49:45
SPEAKER_02: Because no, I guess because he turned in the lineup, because Tanner turned in the lineup cards.
49:50
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
49:50
SPEAKER_03: But that's still pretty cool.
49:51
SPEAKER_03: And you said that was like the last game of the season, probably any year that the pirates were way out of it.
49:56
SPEAKER_03: So that's that's cool.
49:58
SPEAKER_02: Um, for number 16, we'll stick with the pirates.
50:01
SPEAKER_02: Um, do you remember Mike Lavalier, Tim?
50:03
SPEAKER_02: He's spanky.
50:04
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
50:05
SPEAKER_02: So in 1988, he got a big hit after downing some root beer, Tim.
50:10
SPEAKER_02: Root beer.
50:12
SPEAKER_02: So uh quickly, as you know, Mike Lavalier was very much one to uh watch what he put into his body.
50:18
SPEAKER_02: He's very health conscious, as we all know from his uh obviously his bodybuild.
50:23
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, his physique.
50:25
SPEAKER_02: Um, he began drinking root beer on a very regular basis.
50:30
SPEAKER_02: So um he is a root beer diet, they called it.
50:34
SPEAKER_02: Uh he said he normally drank Diet Coke or Diet Pepsi.
50:40
SPEAKER_02: Um he was playing in St.
50:42
SPEAKER_02: Louis and he was having a bad game and said, you know what, I'm gonna have a root beer.
50:46
SPEAKER_02: And you know, all of a sudden he broke out of his slump and went two for four.
50:49
SPEAKER_03: So it's like Popeye spinach, only it's root beer for Mike Lavalier.
50:54
SPEAKER_02: Well, and too, like there's time he would cover up like the root, be like, Oh, I'm drinking beer.
50:58
SPEAKER_02: We so I don't know.
51:03
SPEAKER_03: Steve, do you like root beer?
51:04
SPEAKER_02: I I do like root beer.
51:06
SPEAKER_02: I I don't drink it a lot, but I'll drink it occasionally.
51:09
SPEAKER_02: So I mean maybe I should drink it before I do a podcast.
51:12
SPEAKER_02: Maybe I'll do a better job.
51:15
SPEAKER_03: I I'm the same way.
51:16
SPEAKER_03: It's actually the only I I don't I won't drink pop.
51:19
SPEAKER_03: I don't drink Pepsi or Coke or Sprite or any of that stuff.
51:24
SPEAKER_03: I won't drink any of that stuff, but I will drink root beer every every great once in a while.
51:29
SPEAKER_03: Especially IBC root beer.
51:31
SPEAKER_03: You ever have that stuff?
51:32
SPEAKER_03: That's that's can you find it?
51:33
SPEAKER_02: I haven't even seen an IBC root beer in years.
51:36
SPEAKER_03: Oh yeah.
51:36
SPEAKER_03: It's oh yeah, you can find it at the grocery store, it's still there.
51:40
SPEAKER_02: I normally like if I'm gonna break down and drink like something like normally I drink like seltzer anymore because it doesn't have any sugar or anything in it.
51:49
SPEAKER_02: Normally I I drink that um I drink Mountain Dew.
51:52
SPEAKER_02: So that that's kind of yeah, yeah.
51:55
SPEAKER_02: Me and Mike Lavalier really know how to take care of ourselves here.
52:02
SPEAKER_02: Um, so Terry Bradshaw, you know, he did a very Terry Bradshaw thing.
52:07
SPEAKER_02: So and that's like wanting to get traded to Kansas City.
52:12
SPEAKER_02: So in 1975, once again, like earlier on, we talked about a player strike.
52:17
SPEAKER_02: There seemed to be a lot of like unrest from like the 1970s and 1980s.
52:22
SPEAKER_02: There was a lot of player strikes and almost strikes and kind of strikes.
52:26
SPEAKER_02: So in 1975, there's a player strike, and most of the veterans' players, including Rocky and uh Terry Bradshaw and all of them, they don't cross the picket line.
52:37
SPEAKER_02: But a veteran named Joe Gillam, who's a quarterback, does, and he plays really well in the preseason, and he actually wins the starting job over Bradshaw.
52:47
SPEAKER_02: So in week two, because Gilliam's playing so well, he's on the cover of Sports Illustrated.
52:53
SPEAKER_02: And so Bradshaw figures, well, this is it.
52:55
SPEAKER_02: He's been in the league, you know, since what, 70, 69, 70?
52:59
SPEAKER_02: And he figured, well, I'm not going anywhere.
53:01
SPEAKER_02: I need to go somewhere and start my career.
53:04
SPEAKER_02: And he just basically Bradshaw says, Well, my pride was really hurt, and he was just, I just want to go somewhere else and like start or have a chance to start.
53:13
SPEAKER_02: And in week three, he asked, Can I go to Kansas City?
53:17
SPEAKER_02: And I I guess Kansas City doesn't sound like a terrible.
53:21
SPEAKER_02: You got Hank Stram and Len Dawson is at the end of his career, so you know that doesn't sound like a terrible right spot.
53:28
SPEAKER_02: But he also goes to New wants to go to New Orleans.
53:31
SPEAKER_02: New Orleans?
53:33
SPEAKER_02: They stink.
53:34
SPEAKER_02: Or Atlanta?
53:36
SPEAKER_02: Atlanta, well, Atlanta ended up having a pretty good defense.
53:39
SPEAKER_02: I would what the the the grits and blitz defense late in the 70s.
53:43
SPEAKER_02: So Atlanta, maybe, but New Orleans?
53:46
SPEAKER_02: I don't understand New Orleans.
53:49
SPEAKER_02: But basically, what happens is he goes to this meeting and Chuck Knowle, like, instead of like he thinks he's Chuck Knowles gonna be harsh on Chuck Knowle's like, you're a really good player, you're really gonna catch on, you're you're good, you're good, you know, don't worry about it.
54:01
SPEAKER_02: And like Bradshaw's kind of like, well, you're not even starting me, but he even says in this interview that he thought maybe Chuck Knowle knew he was gonna have to come back to him at some point.
54:12
SPEAKER_02: He comes back for a couple weeks, gets benched in week seven, and then in week 10 he comes back and he he starts for good in week 11.
54:20
SPEAKER_02: Um it probably like all this benching and he just called it chaos and all this ruined his confidence, and he's like, What's going on?
54:30
SPEAKER_02: And I think this kind of ruined Terry Bradshaw and Chuck Nolan, the city.
54:34
SPEAKER_03: And uh, although Chu although Bradshaw says that the benching's made him a tougher player, I I'm not sure I agree with that, but yeah, it depends when you ask Bradshaw, because sometimes he'll say, Oh yeah, Chuck made me tougher, and I thank him for that, and sometimes he'll say that Chuck ruined his life.
54:52
SPEAKER_03: So uh the New Orleans thing, Steve, I'm guessing it's just because that's where he was from.
54:57
SPEAKER_03: I mean, he wasn't from New Orleans, but he was from Louisiana.
55:00
SPEAKER_02: So he never would have won anything.
55:02
SPEAKER_02: Like I could see him winning something maybe in Kansas City, because they they had a good coach still, and they had a good, you know, still some offensive players that are pretty good.
55:11
SPEAKER_03: Well, he also, I mean, you you figure if if you were doing that today, you'd have to calculate number one, does that team need a quarterback?
55:19
SPEAKER_03: Right.
55:20
SPEAKER_03: So there's only a handful of teams that that would say, hey, our starting quarterback is so um bad that we're gonna trade for somebody else's quarterback, right?
55:29
SPEAKER_03: So that's number one.
55:30
SPEAKER_03: And then number two, I wonder, I wonder too, Steve, if like after the experience he had in Pittsburgh where everybody was booing him and all that stuff, I wonder if he just wanted like low pressure.
55:41
SPEAKER_03: Because Atlanta and New Orleans would have been I I those weren't huge at the time ball markets.
55:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
55:49
SPEAKER_03: So even if he goes there and he kind of struggles a little bit, maybe he's not under the same amount of pressure that he is here.
55:55
SPEAKER_03: Maybe maybe that had something to do with it.
55:57
SPEAKER_03: I'm just speculating.
56:00
SPEAKER_02: It's definitely odd.
56:01
SPEAKER_02: And once again, that that like the player strike kind of work works into a player's decision, you know.
56:07
SPEAKER_02: See how it you know affected um, you know, what's his name earlier in the countdown?
56:13
SPEAKER_02: And then once again, it pops up again with the uh Roy, was it uh Jefferson?
56:19
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and you're right, there was a lot, there was a lot of unrest.
56:21
SPEAKER_03: And that carried into the 80s when you had half the eighty-two season wiped out, and then you had the eighty-seven season, they they brought in the strike players.
56:29
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, they played like three games with scab players, but they really haven't had any of that.
56:34
SPEAKER_02: Since 80.
56:35
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, since 87 and the advent of free agency, like they there really hasn't been anything like that.
56:43
SPEAKER_03: No.
56:44
SPEAKER_03: Uh-uh.
56:46
SPEAKER_02: So have you ever felt like burning pirate tickets, Tim?
56:50
SPEAKER_03: I feel like burning a lot of pirates, things with pirates logos on them, yes.
56:55
SPEAKER_03: But not tickets necessarily.
56:57
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so in 1952, the pirates did that.
57:00
SPEAKER_02: They decided to have a nice little bonfire in Forbes Field and set all these tickets on fire.
57:05
SPEAKER_02: You go, well, that's a crazy thing to do.
57:08
SPEAKER_02: Well, here's what happened.
57:10
SPEAKER_02: Um, in 1952, the Boston Braves moved to Milwaukee.
57:16
SPEAKER_02: And I guess it was so late in the season that this move happened that the Pirates had already printed the season tickets for the 1952 season.
57:27
SPEAKER_02: So instead of not wanting them to hand fall into you know hands, they were they weren't worth anything, basically.
57:35
SPEAKER_02: And they the tickets had actually cost twelve thousand dollars to print, but you know, you don't want them going out there, then you have fake tickets and people have double tickets for games or tickets to games that aren't even going to be played.
57:48
SPEAKER_02: And um, they said they would have sold for two million dollars if they were sold, but um, the pirates uh the pirates had to reprint these old tickets and uh burn the old ones.
58:02
SPEAKER_02: Um fun fact about the Boston Braves Babe Ruth played his final season for them in 1935.
58:09
SPEAKER_02: Um he actually hit his three last home runs 712, 713, 714, and they were all in Forbes Field on May 25th, Tim.
58:18
SPEAKER_02: Can you believe it?
58:19
SPEAKER_02: If you listen to our other podcast, yeah, some guy found the baseball in his backyard of 714.
58:25
SPEAKER_02: So you know what else?
58:27
SPEAKER_02: There's another pirate connection to the Boston Braves that uh Bill McKechney, the manager of the 1925 Pirates, was the manager of the Boston Braves from 1930 to 1937.
58:38
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
58:39
SPEAKER_02: So a couple pirate uh connections, you know.
58:41
SPEAKER_02: You know me, local media, I'm good at finding those pirate connections.
58:46
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and I I mean I know today you don't have paper tickets, everything's like on your phone.
58:52
SPEAKER_03: But I guess what else would you do with those?
58:55
SPEAKER_03: Like you have to destroy them, I I suppose.
58:57
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I guess today they'd have like paper shredders or but yeah, could you imagine if those fell into the wrong hands or you know somebody could sell them and some unsuspecting member of the public would pay money for something that isn't worth anything?
59:10
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, I get it.
59:12
SPEAKER_03: I I I get why they had to do it, but it's just funny that they like had a huge bonfire and they like there's pictures of it too, I think.
59:19
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, we have a picture of it.
59:20
SPEAKER_02: They're like in the you know, it looks like the infield of Forbes Field.
59:24
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
59:25
SPEAKER_02: Just burning it.
59:27
SPEAKER_02: It's a pretty nice fire they got going there.
59:29
SPEAKER_02: They look big.
59:29
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
59:30
SPEAKER_03: Could have a little little you know, marshmallows and stuff.
59:33
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, hot dogs.
59:34
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, there you go.
59:37
SPEAKER_02: Now, Tim, I think you were at this event.
59:40
SPEAKER_02: Um, November 13th, 1995.
59:44
SPEAKER_02: Did you go to a Steelers Browns game that you may or may not have won a wore an armband to?
59:50
SPEAKER_03: I I did go to that game.
59:52
SPEAKER_03: It was a Monday night football game, and I did wear the orange armband.
59:55
SPEAKER_02: Aw, isn't that nice?
59:57
SPEAKER_02: Do you still have it or did you get rid of it?
59:58
SPEAKER_03: Uh-huh.
59:58
SPEAKER_03: No, I still have it, and I still have I still have a sign that they handed off.
1:00:02
SPEAKER_03: Well, I'll let you tell the story first.
1:00:04
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so what happened in 1995 was Art Model was involved in a feud to fund his building of a new stadium for the Browns.
1:00:13
SPEAKER_02: So most, you know, owners would just threaten to move the team and then, you know, whatever, then you get your stadium built.
1:00:21
SPEAKER_02: Or, you know, you just kind of flirt with other cities.
1:00:24
SPEAKER_02: Well, Art Model did no such thing.
1:00:26
SPEAKER_02: He just like, oh, Baltimore's gonna give me a bunch of money in a new stadium.
1:00:30
SPEAKER_02: I'm going there.
1:00:31
SPEAKER_02: And like literally seven days before this game on Monday night, like that news broke that like the Browns are out of Cleveland and Cleveland's not gonna have a football team.
1:00:43
SPEAKER_02: And it was very shocking to the football world because like Cleveland had a very loyal following, still does, and um, there were major protests in Cleveland, and uh the Browns actually end up they weren't that great in this season, but they got even worse.
1:00:58
SPEAKER_02: Um and it's just you know, the paper was saying, you know, this might be the last meeting of the teams ever.
1:01:05
SPEAKER_02: So the pay the the Browns are in Pittsburgh playing the Steelers, and fans decide to wear armbands in solidarity with Cleveland.
1:01:14
SPEAKER_02: Anthony Pila, the Archbishop of Cleveland, who himself was moving to Baltimore, stated he did not think it was a fair trade.
1:01:22
SPEAKER_02: I got some great quotes from like paper.
1:01:24
SPEAKER_02: Linda Blair of Meadville was sure that the Browns did Cleveland dirty.
1:01:29
SPEAKER_02: Jason Dalinowski, 17, stated that Baltimore would be made up of players that he already hated.
1:01:37
SPEAKER_03: Most prophetic.
1:01:38
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, Chad Lakoshish, friend who was a friend of this Jason guy, said he was born to raise, he was born and raised to hate Cleveland.
1:01:48
SPEAKER_02: So, um what was your experience at did you hate Cleveland last more?
1:01:54
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean, so just for folks that might be too young to remember the the way that we feel about the Ravens today is the way we felt about the Browns back then.
1:02:06
SPEAKER_03: You know, and that's and that was like that for decades.
1:02:08
SPEAKER_03: I mean, that predated Steve and I's existence.
1:02:12
SPEAKER_03: You know, Pittsburgh, Cleveland was the rivalry, and to hear that they were moving, and that was one season after we had had this playoff game with them.
1:02:20
SPEAKER_03: We played them in the playoffs in January of '95.
1:02:25
SPEAKER_03: So to go from that to now all of a sudden they're moving, uh, it it definitely put the pause button on the hate because you're like, no, we we like you can't get rid of the Cleveland Browns.
1:02:36
SPEAKER_03: And and Modell, like, everybody was really angry with him.
1:02:39
SPEAKER_03: I was really angry with him uh at the time.
1:02:43
SPEAKER_03: And and so, yeah, we wore some people wore orange armbands.
1:02:48
SPEAKER_03: They they ended up save the Browns signs, which I still have one of those.
1:02:52
SPEAKER_03: And um, you know, it was a lot of solidarity.
1:02:56
SPEAKER_03: Now, I will say when the when kickoff happened, I mean, it was just like, okay, now it's a game.
1:03:01
SPEAKER_03: No, nobody, there was some talk of like everybody turned their back on the kickoff.
1:03:06
SPEAKER_03: Right.
1:03:07
SPEAKER_03: Nobody did anything like that.
1:03:08
SPEAKER_03: That was that was like, hey, we're we're beside we're we're behind you guys.
1:03:12
SPEAKER_03: We hope that somehow that a deal was struck to save the team, um, but we want to beat you tonight.
1:03:18
SPEAKER_03: You know, it wasn't it didn't really carry beyond that.
1:03:21
SPEAKER_02: Well, there was an ad in the Pittsburgh Post Gazette I saw from a a bank in Ohio saying like what you were saying about turning your backs on the on the team, you know.
1:03:34
SPEAKER_02: It's just like weird stuff like that.
1:03:36
SPEAKER_02: Like and like they took an ad in a Pittsburgh paper asking the fans to do that.
1:03:41
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean it was a bank in Cleveland that like how would I ever do I I don't think I do much banking in Cleveland.
1:03:48
SPEAKER_02: It was like Ohio Valley Bank or something.
1:03:51
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
1:03:52
SPEAKER_03: Everybody was angry.
1:03:53
SPEAKER_03: I get it.
1:03:54
SPEAKER_03: And again, I I was with the people of Cleveland, I think a lot of people were.
1:03:57
SPEAKER_02: They took an ad in the Pittsburgh paper.
1:03:59
SPEAKER_02: That's just odd.
1:04:00
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
1:04:01
SPEAKER_03: It was a weird time, and and of course the the Browns end up moving, but then the NFL makes a deal to give them a team back.
1:04:08
SPEAKER_03: And and and Modell, like I said, everybody was mad at him, but boy, looking back on that, um uh the city did the city of Cleveland did really kind of hose him over.
1:04:19
SPEAKER_02: But he he should have he should have played hardball back.
1:04:22
SPEAKER_02: I think that's the only thing I I would have said I would have met in Baltimore very publicly.
1:04:26
SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes.
1:04:27
SPEAKER_02: Like, oh look, they got this stadium here, and da-da-da, and we're gonna start, you know, if you don't start negotiating, we're gonna move to Baltimore.
1:04:34
SPEAKER_03: It's supposed to be uh it's supposed to be a little bit of a game.
1:04:37
unknown: Yeah.
1:04:37
SPEAKER_03: You know, Mario Lemieux remember, like, went to Kansas City to like eat dinner and then like flew back.
1:04:43
SPEAKER_03: You know, like it's it's it's you have to play a little bit of a game, and I think his feelings were hurt at that point, and he was just like, you know what?
1:04:51
SPEAKER_03: I'm gone.
1:04:52
SPEAKER_03: Bye.
1:04:53
SPEAKER_03: And I think he just wanted to stick it to the politicians, but that's that's not easy to the politicians who are gonna be out of on elected two years.
1:05:02
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:05:03
SPEAKER_03: I mean, the the the he he just went way too nuclear.
1:05:07
SPEAKER_03: Like his his he had legit reasons for being upset.
1:05:12
SPEAKER_03: Totally legit reasons, but he went way too nuclear.
1:05:16
SPEAKER_02: I'm sure there's a lesson in there somewhere, but damned if I learned it.
1:05:21
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, well the the really sad thing for the people of Cleveland is the Baltimore Ravens have won two Super Bowls.
1:05:30
SPEAKER_03: And are probably one of the five best run organizations in the league.
1:05:36
SPEAKER_03: I mean, I hate to say that, like, have it be recorded, but it's true.
1:05:40
SPEAKER_03: And that could have been Cleveland the whole time.
1:05:42
SPEAKER_03: And yeah, well, that's just that's the story of Cleveland sports, though.
1:05:48
SPEAKER_02: Uh by the way, the Steelers win on a twenty twenty to three on a pretty nifty play by Coriol Stewart.
1:05:53
SPEAKER_02: That's the he runs from one sideline to the other.
1:05:56
SPEAKER_02: And the bonus point is uh Bill Belichick was there too in Knicks.
1:05:59
SPEAKER_02: Nick Saban and Jim Schwartz and all them, so
1:06:02
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, they actually played each other, I want to say two weeks later in Cleveland.
1:06:07
SPEAKER_03: And that was like the that was the official last game until you know they came back into the league four years later.
1:06:15
SPEAKER_00: Crazy.
1:06:17
SPEAKER_02: So um moving on to uh more fun stuff.
1:06:21
SPEAKER_02: Um have you ever been charged with assault, Tim?
1:06:25
SPEAKER_03: Not recently.
1:06:26
SPEAKER_02: Have you ever assaulted a costumed character?
1:06:30
SPEAKER_03: No.
1:06:31
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
1:06:32
SPEAKER_02: Well, on July 9th, 2003, Randall Simon thought it would be a great idea to lightly, and I would say this because this is totally an overreaction by everybody in Milwaukee, the Brewers Organization, and I just I just forgot how much I can't stand the Brewers.
1:06:49
SPEAKER_02: Like the he taps the head of the chef's hat of the Italian sausage in a sausage race.
1:06:57
SPEAKER_02: So much like we have the pierogi race, the Washington Nationals have a president race, the Brewers have a sausage race between an Italian sausage, a Polish sausage, and a hot dog.
1:07:11
SPEAKER_02: And I maybe somebody else too.
1:07:12
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
1:07:13
SPEAKER_02: I think there's a chorizo now, too.
1:07:15
SPEAKER_02: Probably.
1:07:18
SPEAKER_02: There might be.
1:07:19
SPEAKER_02: But he hits the Italian sausage who wears number three with the tap of his baseball bat, and the Italian sausage falls down, taking out the hot dog.
1:07:28
SPEAKER_02: But then in a show of racial harmony, the Italian sausage is helped up by the Polish sausage, Tim.
1:07:35
SPEAKER_02: I think there's a lesson on uh you know racial harmony and integrity there that if the Polish sausage can get along with Italian sausage, yet you know it eludes us.
1:07:45
SPEAKER_02: I I don't I don't know how.
1:07:47
SPEAKER_02: But um uh for his part, uh like if you watch it, we'll we'll link.
1:07:54
SPEAKER_02: I have the replay of this, and like you can hear the brew, it's from the brewer's uh broadcast, and like they go nuts.
1:08:00
SPEAKER_02: Oh, I can't believe he did that.
1:08:02
SPEAKER_02: Oh my gosh! It's like this is it's total overreaction, but it gets worse because after the game, the uh Milwaukee Police Department, which is the people that charge Laurencia Bambemick with uh total not crime, so you people are got problems bigger than Randall Simon, uh, literally arrest him, put him in cuffs, and fine him$433 for disorderly conduct.
1:08:28
SPEAKER_02: Because I'm sure there wasn't anybody being murdered, raped, drugs weren't being sold, nothing else was going on right outside the stadium.
1:08:37
SPEAKER_02: You had so much time on your hands to arrest Randall Simon.
1:08:43
SPEAKER_02: So he gets suspended.
1:08:46
SPEAKER_02: Let me read some of the quotes.
1:08:47
SPEAKER_02: He's suspended by the baseball for three games due to the incident.
1:08:51
SPEAKER_02: It's uh Schlesinger.
1:08:53
SPEAKER_02: So we've got Rick Schlesinger, the Brewer's executive vice president of business operations.
1:08:58
SPEAKER_02: This is in no way a reflection on the pirates, such as Schessinger said.
1:09:02
SPEAKER_02: It's an insane act of a person whose conduct is unjustified or unjustifiable.
1:09:09
SPEAKER_02: Larry Silverman is just as shocked and distressed as I am.
1:09:14
SPEAKER_02: It's sick of me to see it.
1:09:16
SPEAKER_02: He hit the top of a person in a sausage costume.
1:09:21
SPEAKER_02: This is just the stupidest thing ever, Tim.
1:09:24
SPEAKER_02: I before I get into all the out the stupid aftermath, is this like Mark Baden wrote an article and I forgot he did, and I read that.
1:09:33
SPEAKER_02: I was like, yeah, I I remembered I agreed with, I still agree.
1:09:36
SPEAKER_02: It was just the dumbest thing.
1:09:37
SPEAKER_02: And Baden said basically what I said like there was no other crime in the city of Milwaukee going on at this time that the police had better things to do.
1:09:45
SPEAKER_03: It it so it if you look at the just the replay.
1:09:51
SPEAKER_02: They speed it up, and Milwaukee speeds it up.
1:09:54
SPEAKER_02: Like when you watch it in real time, he gently taps.
1:09:57
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:09:58
SPEAKER_03: But if you watch it with no context, it looks like a baseball player came out there with a baseball bat and like took out somebody with a baseball bat, but it's a person in a giant padded.
1:10:08
SPEAKER_03: It was a woman who I think years later said she thought it was hilarious.
1:10:13
SPEAKER_02: It's a person named Mandy Block.
1:10:15
SPEAKER_02: She's the person that sausage, and he actually Randall Simon pays for her to have a free trip to Curacao because that's where Randall Simon's from.
1:10:25
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I I don't think she was upset by it.
1:10:27
SPEAKER_03: It was he was trying to be silly, like in and he didn't mean to hurt anybody because he did knock her down.
1:10:35
SPEAKER_03: I think he got a couple of bruises and stuff.
1:10:37
SPEAKER_03: So it wasn't like nothing, but it but he didn't he wasn't trying to hurt her, like he wasn't trying to assault is the most ridiculous charge.
1:10:44
SPEAKER_03: And and I think this was like around the time, Steve, that the outrage culture really was starting to like shape up into what it became today.
1:10:56
SPEAKER_03: And if you remember, you said this is 2003.
1:10:59
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's an insane act of a person whose good conduct, whose conduct is unjustifiable.
1:11:06
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:11:06
SPEAKER_02: Well, what got what what what what did he like break the Geneva Convention here?
1:11:11
SPEAKER_02: I this is crazy.
1:11:12
SPEAKER_03: 2003 was the same year of the Janet Jackson Super Bowl halftime.
1:11:18
SPEAKER_03: Remember that?
1:11:19
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that you know what?
1:11:20
SPEAKER_02: You know what that did?
1:11:21
SPEAKER_02: That inspired me to get glasses because I totally missed it because I was like, what happened?
1:11:25
SPEAKER_02: I was like, oh, I didn't get to see her nipple because I need glasses.
1:11:28
SPEAKER_03: But but that but but it was the it was the time of like extreme outrage over everything.
1:11:34
SPEAKER_02: And I could I I never and think Well, I never, Tim, and you need to clutch your pearls.
1:11:41
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and things were that's the early days of the internet.
1:11:44
SPEAKER_03: The internet was starting the internet was really ingrained at that point, and that's when things were starting to go viral.
1:11:50
SPEAKER_03: And I remember that was everywhere.
1:11:51
SPEAKER_03: That was on like not only the internet, but it was on like the day show and like all the sports center, all that stuff.
1:11:58
SPEAKER_03: And we just really liked, and not that we still don't, but we really like this idea of ooh, we have something to get outraged over collectively, and now we have a place on the internet where we can all go and state how outraged we are and be social justice warriors, and and then you have people like this vice president or whatever guy, the brewers.
1:12:21
SPEAKER_02: It's like uh you want to hear another fun quote by him?
1:12:24
SPEAKER_03: Oh, please.
1:12:26
SPEAKER_02: I can't put into words the anger I feel and the sense of outrage I have.
1:12:30
SPEAKER_02: We've had the sausage race every day for years and never had something like this happen.
1:12:37
SPEAKER_03: The horror.
1:12:40
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that that's that's it's it looking back on it, it's that's just embarrassing.
1:12:45
SPEAKER_03: It's embarrassing that people reacted that strongly to it.
1:12:49
SPEAKER_03: And and again, I think I think if that happens today, again, we we outrage culture is still existent today, but I think I think we um we've just been outraged over so many things now, and we've seen so many things that I think something like this would be minor.
1:13:05
SPEAKER_03: And again, it should have been minor.
1:13:06
SPEAKER_03: He wasn't if he now, if he would have been like angry because he struck out and then went and whacked the lady with the sausage, that's a that's that okay, that's worth getting outraged over, right?
1:13:16
SPEAKER_03: Like I get that.
1:13:17
SPEAKER_03: But he was just it was in between innings, he was standing near the fence, he was like forcing around.
1:13:21
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, he was forcing around.
1:13:22
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, he was being silly and he accidentally knocked her over and he didn't mean to do it.
1:13:27
SPEAKER_03: It wasn't my goodness, everybody just calmed down.
1:13:31
SPEAKER_01: Especially the Schlesinger guy.
1:13:34
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:13:35
SPEAKER_01: Rick Schlesinger, he's the bad guy.
1:13:38
SPEAKER_02: Well, anyway, the sausage did come back to PNC Park later in the season to race the pierogies.
1:13:44
SPEAKER_02: Uh, I don't know.
1:13:45
SPEAKER_02: Uh the Pirates did win 6-3 on that Friday night, August 15th, but I don't know who won the pierogie race.
1:13:52
SPEAKER_02: Randall Simon did get traded to the Cubs later that season, and Dusty Baker like pretended to like stand in front of the bats to keep Randall Simon away from the sausages.
1:14:02
SPEAKER_03: So nice.
1:14:03
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:14:04
SPEAKER_02: Back to a more serious and final story.
1:14:06
SPEAKER_02: Since it is our 21st story, there's only one person this could really be about.
1:14:12
SPEAKER_02: Um, and that'll be Tom Walker not getting on a plane to Nicaragua.
1:14:17
SPEAKER_02: You might say, Who's Tom Walker?
1:14:18
SPEAKER_02: Well, that would be Neil Walker's dad.
1:14:21
SPEAKER_02: So um what had happened was there was an earthquake in Nicaragua, and um Roberto Kalmeni, being the humanitarian that he was, had loaded a plane full of supplies, and they were gonna fly it down there.
1:14:34
SPEAKER_02: And I guess uh Tom Walker had helped them load or whatever, was involved in this and was pretty tired.
1:14:42
SPEAKER_02: And um Klmeny was like, Well, you just stay here, I'll take the seat, I'll go with this one, and you just catch the next one, or you know, rest or whatever.
1:14:51
SPEAKER_02: And of course, what had happened, everybody know that plane had wrecked in the ocean, and uh Virto Klomeny died.
1:14:58
SPEAKER_02: Um, so what happened was uh Tom Walker's quote, I can still see him standing on the ramp to the plane, and I was talking to him.
1:15:05
SPEAKER_02: Tom Walker said, I'm probably the last ball player to see him alive.
1:15:09
SPEAKER_02: As I worked my way back to my apartment that evening, the person across the street from me came over to tell me that his plane had crashed and there's no survivors.
1:15:18
SPEAKER_02: Well, there's no English-speaking radio station in Puerto Rico, and there's no ECBN, there's no cell phones in 1972.
1:15:25
SPEAKER_02: So I thought this cannot be.
1:15:29
SPEAKER_02: I mean, just kind of a weird also was Neil Walker was interviewed in this.
1:15:34
SPEAKER_02: And I mean, imagine if Tom Walker gets on that plane, there's no Neil Walker.
1:15:39
SPEAKER_02: It's very like, you know, what I want to say, it's a wonderful life, you know, kind of thing.
1:15:44
SPEAKER_02: So uh just a very tragic event, you know.
1:15:48
SPEAKER_02: It's always sad, you know, what would have been if Roberto Many would have lasted, you know, three more years, you know, would they have maybe beat the Reds in one of those world series one of those championship games that they lost?
1:16:00
SPEAKER_02: So you never know.
1:16:01
SPEAKER_02: And um just kind of one of those quirks in history, you know, who what would have happened or you know what could have been.
1:16:08
SPEAKER_02: But um, you know, definitely respect Tom Walker for you know giving that interview and Neil Walker.
1:16:13
SPEAKER_02: We all appreciate Neil Walker and he had a great career here in Pittsburgh, and you know, he's great on the broadcast when they have him on there, and um just you know, appreciate him, but um definitely a sad, sad story that Roberto Clemente died on that plane crash.
1:16:30
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I can't imagine like being seconds away from getting on a plane that you know went down and then deciding kind of last second just to not get on.
1:16:42
SPEAKER_03: Uh-huh.
1:16:43
SPEAKER_03: That's that's that in and of itself is crazy.
1:16:46
SPEAKER_03: And then it to have it be Roberto Clemeni's plane, and then like you said, you know, Walker's not born until what, probably like fourteen, fifteen years later.
1:16:54
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:16:54
SPEAKER_03: And he doesn't exist.
1:16:56
SPEAKER_03: If if Tom Walker gets on that plane.
1:16:59
SPEAKER_03: So yeah, that's a that's that's that's a really um crazy story and sad, of course.
1:17:06
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, you know, we they all can't be happy ones, and that's how we're gonna end it.
1:17:11
SPEAKER_02: But um, it's good to remember the good things about Roberto Clemeni, his you know, what is it, three thousandth hit, and all that good stuff, him standing at second base was kind of the lasting memory of baseball we have of him.
1:17:23
SPEAKER_03: And he died trying to help people.
1:17:25
SPEAKER_03: I mean, that's yeah.
1:17:27
SPEAKER_03: That's the that's the best thing you can say about him out of anything.
1:17:30
SPEAKER_03: He died trying to help people.
1:17:32
SPEAKER_02: Such such a uh you know, good positive person and you know, good good role model for everybody involved.
1:17:39
SPEAKER_02: Well, as yeah, that brings us to the end of our 21 short stories about Pittsburgh.
1:17:43
SPEAKER_02: Um, the best I can say about it was there was a whole lot of stuff that happened.
1:17:48
SPEAKER_02: Um you want to catch us on Facebook, you can comment on any of these stories you have anything to add or any criticisms or any compliments.
1:17:57
SPEAKER_02: We always appreciate that.
1:17:59
SPEAKER_02: Uh, please give us a rating on whatever podcast service you listen to us.
1:18:02
SPEAKER_02: Uh, Spotify is always popular.
1:18:04
SPEAKER_02: We're on every every different one, Tim.
1:18:07
SPEAKER_02: Um, you can check us out on our uh webpage.
1:18:10
SPEAKER_02: Um we'll I'm sure we'll have the the Walker story linked on there.
1:18:13
SPEAKER_02: Maybe the uh yeah, we'll definitely have Randall Simon hitting a sausage and you can determine if you're outraged and you need to clutch your pearls.
1:18:20
SPEAKER_02: So if you watch that video, Randall Simon, make sure you're wearing pearls, you clutch them.
1:18:25
SPEAKER_02: Be very offended.
1:18:26
SPEAKER_02: But um, what isn't it offensive is you guys are the fans, and we love that you listen and you keep us going.
1:18:32
SPEAKER_02: And um, we'll definitely talk to you uh next time on Pittsburgh Sports Memories.