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4: Swing Dancing and Spiritual Conversations · Finding God at Work

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  (Transcribed by TurboScribe. Go Unlimited to remove this message.) Hi, I'm Chris.
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  This is Finding God at Work.
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  Just a reminder that Finding God at Work
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  isn't just a podcast, it's also an online
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  course.
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  Check it out at findinggodatwork.org.
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  Our current series is A Guide on the
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  Side, How to Have Joyful Spiritual Conversations at
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  Work.
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  Have you ever done any kind of partnered
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  dancing, ballroom dancing, swing dancing, something like that?
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  I did a little bit of swing dancing
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  when I was in high school.
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  I was in a music theater performance class
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  where we learned how to do tap dancing,
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  we learned how to do swing dancing, a
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  few other things.
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  And the thing about tap dancing was even
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  though we were choreographed, we were each kind
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  of in our own space, right?
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  So you just had to learn the moves,
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  you had to learn how to sync up
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  your feet to the music in the right
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  way, and that was all there was to
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  it.
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  You just, you either had it or you
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  didn't.
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  But with partner dancing, you didn't just have
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  to know the moves and the music, you
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  also had to know your partner.
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  You had to have this kind of dynamic
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  exchange where you know the moves or what
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  the options of moves are, but so does
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  your partner, and so you're both ready for
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  each other, and then you're responding to each
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  other in the moment in this wonderful, beautiful
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  way, right?
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  There's a reason that we think of dancing
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  as this wonderful metaphor for human relationships, for
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  marriage, for romance, for things like this.
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  I think that dancing, partner dancing, is also
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  a great metaphor for evangelism, because on the
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  one hand, we need to know the moves,
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  we need to know the rhythm, we need
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  to know the good news itself.
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  That's kind of our part that we bring,
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  of just like knowing the good news of
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  Jesus, having experienced it for ourselves.
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  But then there's also this quality of responding
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  to the other person, of gauging how open
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  they are to the good news, of seeing
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  what's going on for them and saying something
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  that might be relevant to where they're at,
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  of challenging them or inviting them to take
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  their next step toward Jesus.
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  And there's incredible joy and dynamism when you're
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  in this exchange with somebody else, and it's
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  genuine.
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  When they're experiencing the goodness of God and
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  beginning to see, oh, this is real.
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  The kingdom of God is real.
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  Maybe I could take a step towards it,
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  maybe I could take a step into it.
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  And to be in that dance of evangelism
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  is just one of the most beautiful faith
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  -building experiences that I've ever had as a
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  disciple of Jesus.
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  And if it's not something that you're familiar
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  with, again, the whole point of this series
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  is you can do it.
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  You can learn the moves and you can
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  learn how to be responsive to the person
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  in front of you.
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  So that's what I want to talk about
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  in this episode, is how are we responsive
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  to other people?
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  We've already laid the groundwork, right?
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  We talked about this in the past couple
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  episodes.
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  We're developing this attentive life where we're attentive
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  to God, attentive to other people just kind
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  of as a way of being in the
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  world.
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  And then we're also intentionally making our lives
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  like a hospitable garden for spiritual conversations.
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  We're thinking about how we bring our Christian
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  and non-Christian friends together and we make
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  it a space where these kind of conversations
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  can happen.
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  But then when it's time for a conversation,
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  how do you actually get one started?
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  How do you respond to somebody else who
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  might have some curiosity about spiritual things?
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  Well, I want to go to the scriptures
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  and look at a couple things that can
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  help us out.
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  OK, then also look at a couple thinkers
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  who can help us out, including, of course,
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  Dallas Willard.
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  OK, but first, before we go to the
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  scripture, have you ever heard this phrase, preach
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  the gospel at all times when necessary, use
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  words?
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  Sometimes it's attributed to St. Francis of Assisi.
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  Sometimes it's attributed to others.
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  And let me be honest, I think it
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  is a terrible phrase.
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  I think it's confusing.
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  I don't think it's helpful to people because
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  it's confusing two things that both matter, right?
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  On the one hand, does it matter that
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  we in our lives live out the reality
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  of God at all times, regardless of whether
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  we're explicitly having a spiritual conversation?
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  Yes, that matters.
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  On the other hand, does using words, in
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  fact, also matter?
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  Does proclaiming the good news matter?
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  Yes, that matters.
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  And there's an extent to which this quote
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  in particular, this when necessary use words tends
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  to minimize that.
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  It's almost like a quote that gives permission
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  for really what matters is living our lives
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  a certain way and whether or not we
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  ever get around to sharing the good news.
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  You know, it may happen, it may not.
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  And I just don't think that's what scripture
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  offers for us.
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  OK, but I want to be hospitable to
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  the good part of that, which is scripture
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  does speak to this dynamism of who we
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  are, of the kind of life we're living.
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  It is important.
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  And it connects that to this kind of
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  responsiveness that does, in fact, use words.
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  OK, so let's go to a couple of
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  different passages.
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  One of my favorite verses in the entire
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  Bible is Luke 8, verse 1.
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  This is in the ESV.
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  Soon afterward, Jesus went on through cities and
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  villages, proclaiming and bringing the good news of
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  the kingdom of God.
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  OK, this is a verse that gives us
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  Jesus's MO.
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  How did he do things?
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  As he went through cities and villages, as
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  he went from place to place, he proclaimed
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  the good news of the kingdom of God.
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  But it says proclaiming and bringing.
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  He also brought the good news of the
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  kingdom of God.
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  In his ministry of healing, in his ministry
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  of deliverance from evil spirits, wherever Jesus went,
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  the kingdom of God happened.
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  So Jesus was not just using words.
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  He was also bringing the reality of God's
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  kingdom with him wherever he went.
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  And he was speaking about it.
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  So for Jesus, there's not a contradiction here.
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  There's action.
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  There's invoking the power of God through his
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  unique life, lived in the power of the
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  Holy Spirit as the Messiah, as the Son
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  of God.
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  And there's proclaiming, saying, here's the kingdom of
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  God.
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  Enter into it.
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  So Jesus, he did both.
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  He had this life that was filled with
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  the presence of God and brought the kingdom
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  of God with him wherever he went.
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  And he proclaimed the good news about that
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  kingdom.
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  So if we are disciples of Jesus, if
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  we're learning from him, I think that our
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  MO might be similar, where maybe there's a
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  how we live dynamic, and then also a
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  when we use words dynamic.
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  Okay, let's go to another passage.
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  Paul in Colossians.
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  This is Colossians chapter four.
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  It's kind of in the section of the
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  letter where Paul's just giving kind of a
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  lot of little tidbits of wisdom and application.
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  He's already done the theological heavy lifting in
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  earlier chapters.
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  And this is what he says when he
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  gets to a little bit of input about
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  relationships with people who may not be connected
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  to God through Jesus Christ.
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  This is verse five.
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  Be wise in the way you act toward
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  outsiders.
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  Make the most of every opportunity.
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  Let your conversation always be full of grace,
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  seasoned with salt, so that you may know
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  how to answer everyone.
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  Oh, did you catch this kind of two
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  sides to that?
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  On the one hand, there's a kind of
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  taking initiative that Paul gets at there, right?
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  He says, be wise in the way you
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  act toward outsiders, make the most of every
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  opportunity.
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  So that sounds pretty active.
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  That sounds like, oh, I'm looking for opportunities
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  and I'm asking, is this an opportunity?
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  Is this something that I can take advantage
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  of right now?
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  Okay, but then what are you actually doing,
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  right?
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  What's the verb, right?
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  When it talks about conversations, it says, let
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  your conversation always be full of grace, seasoned
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  with salt, so that you may know how
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  to, what?
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  So that you may know how to answer
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  everyone.
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  Now that's a responsive word.
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  If you're answering someone, it implies that they
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  have already asked a question, that they've already
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  shown a certain level of curiosity.
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  So putting these two things together, I think
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  the phrase we could use is Paul is
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  recommending a posture of responsive initiative.
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  Responsive initiative.
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  We're responding to other people.
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  We're ready to answer them, which implies they
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  already show some curiosity, a certain level of
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  openness.
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  And yet we're also looking for opportunities.
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  We're looking, is this a chance?
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  Is this a chance for me to be
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  wise in the way I interact towards outsiders?
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  Is this a chance for me to, like
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  Jesus, proclaim something about the kingdom of God?
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  Okay, let's go to a different epistle and
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  a different apostle.
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  Peter, 1 Peter 3, 15 through 16.
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  Let's see if we find responsive initiative here
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  too.
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  But in your hearts, revere Christ as Lord.
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  Always be prepared to give an answer to
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  everyone who asks you to give the reason
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  for the hope that you have.
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  But do this with gentleness and respect, keeping
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  a clear conscience, so that those who speak
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  maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may
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  be ashamed of their slander.
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  Oh, okay.
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  Couple things going on there.
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  Did you catch the responsive attitude, right?
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  Always be prepared to what?
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  To give an answer to everyone who asks
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  you to give the reason for the hope
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  that you have.
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  Again, there's this assumption.
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  People are going to be asking.
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  Okay.
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  And so when people ask, then you are
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  ready to respond.
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  But also Peter connects it to your whole
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  way of life, right?
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  He says, keeping a clear conscience so that
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  those who speak maliciously against your good behavior
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  in Christ may be ashamed of their slander.
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  Peter saying there's something about your whole way
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  of life here.
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  That's relevant to these conversations.
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  Okay.
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  Dallas Willard, I think is really helpful in
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  unpacking this.
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  This is from his wonderful book, The Allure
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  of Gentleness, Defending the Faith in the Manner
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  of Jesus.
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  And he's talking about this specific passage.
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  And he says, we need to understand that
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  the ministry of apologetics is a ministry directed
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  to all people, wherever they may be located,
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  whether they call themselves Christians or not, because
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  these ideas that sit in our heads have
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  us at their mercy.
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  When we come to live our lives as
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  Christians, we must be open to anyone who
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  says, as this passage indicates, why are you
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  hopeful?
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  What's going on in you?
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  Because something is obviously different.
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  And then in that context, we exercise the
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  ministry of apologetics.
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  Okay.
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  Dallas is using this term apologetics, which is
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  more specific than just evangelism proper.
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  It's this idea of giving a reason for
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  the faith that you have, kind of explaining,
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  here's why my faith makes sense to me.
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  But Dallas is saying that this particular ministry
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  of explaining why your faith makes sense, it's
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  relevant to everyone because everybody's ideas affect their
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  life in really profound ways, right?
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  He says, the ideas that sit in our
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  heads have us at their mercy.
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  That's true for all of us as human
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  beings.
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  But he says, when you live your life
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  as a Christian, right, somebody's going to say,
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  why are you hopeful?
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  What's going on in you?
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  Because something is obviously different.
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  So that's what's going to give the occasion
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  to have this conversation about apologetics, is your
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  way of life as a Christian.
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  So Dallas goes on to say, if you
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  do not exhibit the presence of a life
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  that is above this world, something that is
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  coming into you and giving you joy, peace,
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  and strength in a situation that looks very
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  bad from the outside, there isn't going to
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  be anything for people to ask about.
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  Ooh, ooh.
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  Okay.
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  How often is that true of my life
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  in Jesus?
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  That my life is not so different from
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  anybody else's life, such that there isn't anything
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  for others to ask about.
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  And what Dallas is suggesting is that there
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  is actually a qualitative difference in the way
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  that we live our lives in general that
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  can inspire curiosity in other people.
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  Now, that is a high standard.
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  But again, that's actually a really healthy way
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  to think about evangelism, to think about apologetics,
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  to think about sharing our faith is, are
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  we experiencing the good news for ourselves, right?
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  Are we attending to God as we seek
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  to attend to others?
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  Are we experiencing the transformative joy of the
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  power of the Holy Spirit in our lives?
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  If not, okay, let's go there.
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  Let's learn the good news for ourselves.
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  And then maybe we'll have something to share
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  with someone else.
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  Along similar lines, Dallas Willard famously once had
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  a conversation with Pastor John Ortberg, where John
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  Ortberg was kind of asking about, you know,
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  what's most important in life with God.
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  And Dallas said, you must arrange your days
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  so that you are experiencing total contentment, joy,
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  and confidence in your everyday life with God.
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  You must arrange your days so that you
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  are experiencing total contentment, joy, and confidence in
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  your everyday life with God.
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  Now that's a whole nother series that we
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  could lean into.
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  How do you do that?
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  How do you arrange your life that way?
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  But that's gonna be so much more powerful
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  than any kind of technique when it comes
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  to evangelism, right?
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  If you're not really in touch with the
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  power of the Holy Spirit to help you
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  grow in the fruit of the Spirit, and
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  then you just try and be dutiful as
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  an evangelist, how fruitful is that gonna be?
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  Versus if you are experiencing the joy of
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  God on a day-to-day basis, as
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  you grow in grace by the power of
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  the Holy Spirit, then whatever evangelism you have
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  to do will probably have some kind of
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  effect on people, right?
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  So that's the good interpretation of what I
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  think the unhelpful quote, always preach the good
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  news when necessary use words, right?
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  There is a reality where the life that
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  we're living all the time is superbly relevant
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  to these kinds of conversations.
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  It is in fact, in some sense, the
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  foundation for these kinds of conversations, the predecessor
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  to these kinds of conversations.
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  And yet that doesn't mean that we never
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  get around to having those conversations.
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  Other people may be curious and ask us
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  a question, and then we wanna be ready
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  to make the most of every opportunity.
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  Again, responsive initiative.
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  Okay, in future episodes, we're gonna unpack this
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  a lot more, but I just wanna kind
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  of give a couple other thoughts here.
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  Here I'm drawing on the work of intervarsity
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  leaders, Don Everts and Doug Schaup from their
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  book, I Once Was Lost.
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  I've used that book a couple of times
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  before, and we'll reference it again in this
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  series.
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  But they talk about this kind of moment
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  of curiosity.
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  Somebody has some curiosity about spiritual things.
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  They're already friends with you, and then maybe
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  something happens.
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  So they say, just because someone trusts you,
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  it doesn't necessarily follow that they are super
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  curious about Jesus.
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  In fact, many non-Christians are content to
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  have a Christian friend or two, but never
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  get any closer to the kingdom.
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  Hmm, interesting.
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  Okay, so that's the first thing, is that
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  this curiosity may not be automatic.
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  There may be ways that we can actually
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  provoke this curiosity.
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  Okay, but then here's the other thing.
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  When this curiosity shows up, we don't wanna
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  be overzealous, right?
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  Again, using the swing dancing metaphor.
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  You don't wanna throw your partner across the
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  dance floor in a way that they were
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  not ready for.
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  So this is, I think, so helpful.
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  They call this dousing curiosity.
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  As we have conversations with curious people, we
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  should be sensitive to what level of interest
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  they actually have.
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  Tuvia Zaretsky, a friend who works with Jews
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  for Jesus, asks a great question.
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  Would you pour out a whole pitcher of
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  water if all they are holding is a
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  little Dixie cup?
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  No, you would only pour out a few
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  ounces.
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  Tuvia's right.
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  We need to give people what they ask
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  for, instead of pouring out everything we know
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  about God the first time they display a
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  Dixie cup's worth of curiosity.
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  If they have just a thimble full of
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  curiosity, we could actually douse that small curiosity
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  by answering their small, limited question with 101
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  apologetic answers we've been waiting to use on
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  someone.
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  Try not to dump five gallons of answers
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  on a six ounce question.
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  Try to assess your friend's curiosity and respond
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  in kind.
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  This approach is much more likely to result
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  in the growth of their curiosity over time.
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  You get that?
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  Can you feel the rhythm there?
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  You're hearing the music of the Holy Spirit
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  in somebody else's life and you're seeing how
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  curious they are, how open they are, and
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  then you're not dumping the five gallon bucket
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  on them.
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  You're responding in kind.
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  You're staying in step with them and with
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  the Holy Spirit by sharing what they're open
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  to in that moment.
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  Just a thimble full if that's all that
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  they're open to.
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  Okay, so I think this is kind of
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  the groundwork, this posture of responsive initiative.
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  We're looking for opportunities.
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  We're arranging our lives so we can have
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  these kinds of opportunities come up.
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  And then when someone's curious, we're responding with
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  the level that's appropriate for their level of
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  curiosity.
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  And then we go from there.
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  Lord Jesus, thank you that you showed responsive
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  initiative, that you could challenge people, but you
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  could also winsomely invite people into the kingdom.
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  And we ask that you would do that
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  through us, that you would show us how
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  to make the most of every opportunity, how
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  to be ready to answer, to respond to
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  others as they show genuine curiosity.
• 17:19
  Jesus, do your work in us as we
• 17:21
  do our work with you.
• 17:49
  on faith in the workplace, go to our
• 17:51
  website, missioncentral.church