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The Eternal Child, The Old Man and Spiritual Commitment - Jogen Sensei · Zen Community of Oregon Dharma Talks

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome. This is the Zen Community of Oregon, making the teachings of the Buddhadharma accessible to support your practice. New episodes air every week.
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: Take refuge in Buddha. Take refuge in Dharma. Take refuge in Sangha. So it came to me this morning to talk about spiritual commitment, and this is not comprehensive. And I think my intent is simply to provoke.
• 0:50
  I don't have an agenda except to support the flourishing of Dharma and anybody who wants that. But if you don't want it, it's not my business to support its flourishing necessarily. So this isn't, a finger pointing at anybody. This is just, oh, these are things I'm interested in. And you may be too.
• 1:18
  So spiritual commitment. What if at the bottom of everything you want and go toward, there are virtues of being? Like there's a thread that actually runs through the different things that, well, maybe attract and repel you. Right? And here are, just some examples of virtues of being, what I mean by that.
• 1:47
  Love, integrity, insight, unity, playfulness, creation, manifestation, purity, potency or power like the glory of high energy? What if at the bottom of everything you want and go towards are virtues of being, and in some sense, the particular thing you interface with, do, are attracted to is just a means to tap into that. It's just a means to be in relationship to that. Right? It's not your stamp collection and the excitement of going to the post office.
• 2:29
  It's the virtue of being that's related to stamps. And there probably is one. I just couldn't think of it. And so what if you're already committed to them? What if your life is already a reflection of spiritual commitment and you are living the life you're living with the people you're with, going towards the things you go towards and that's already going on at some level.
• 3:02
  Some people are playing pickleball. Some people are watching who's the boss reruns. What if you're already committed to them? And it could look like wandering actually. Might not look like commitment.
• 3:26
  It could look like you're drawn to situations that bring it out of you even though you don't know why you're drawn to them, or you're drawn to beings that embody it even though you don't necessarily make any particular effort to approach them. You just keep showing up. Spiritual commitment could look like explicit dedication to the things that bring you close, that bring you into embodiment of those virtues. And maybe different different traditions or paths or ways, amplify or bring us closer to one of these more than another. So what if you're already committed to them?
• 4:18
  If you examine your life through that lens, you just see like what like is there a deeper thread that's already running through what I do, what I approach, what approaches me? And then further, what if going towards and being close with virtues of being is how we feel our life is meaningful. A very important teacher to me, he said, for human beings to feel their life is meaningless is the most unbearable thing. It's fine to suffer, for example, but if there's no meaning made of that suffering, it's almost unbearable. Right?
• 5:04
  To live this existence and its travails, its joys and sorrows without feeling that it's meaningful is is so hard for the heart to cope with that there's all kinds of things we'll do to armor against that. Let's see if this if that rings true for you. And then what if okay. Let's say that meaning is non optional to actually stay fully alive, not only physically, but spiritually. Meaning is like the primary nutrient after, I don't know, water, sunlight, air.
• 5:50
  Then is it true that you feel this is a term, meaningless vibes because meaning is not like a brick that you have on your desk. It's vibes. Is it true that you feel meaningless vibes when you're when you're close to that quality, when you're close to that virtue of being, when you're loving, when you're playing, when you're seeing deeply, when you're in your power, when you're creating, whatever it may be. In Islam, there are 99 names of God. And if that's true, then there would be meaningless vibes just in the clarity about it, That closeness with this is somehow vital to me.
• 6:40
  There would be meaning in approaching closeness. Sometimes people come onto a path like, Zen, and just as soon as they actually start giving themselves to a path that approaches a virtue of being they value, something in them just rests. It's like, oh, I'm at home. Even though the the being at home is rough or challenging or confronting, there's there's a sense of I'm already in now, I'm in the arena of meaning. Just just getting here already.
• 7:21
  I remember that. Like, just getting here was already like, ah, okay. Right? No. And it it again, it could be a lot of things that bring you close.
• 7:35
  Before Buddhism for me, it was a drum set. Meaningness vibes in the approach, meaningness meaningness vibes in closeness with that quality, and meaningness vibes even in feeling misaligned or separated. Because if you know you're separated from that which is vital to your life, that gives you meaning in getting back into unity with it. So if this is true about meaning and virtues of being, then what's your responsibility? Because when we talk about commitment, it invokes a sense of I could make some decisions.
• 8:41
  I could do some things. I could seal a deal. I could sign a contract. I could put on a ring or a bib or a robe or a hat or get a tattoo. I don't know, whatever.
• 8:52
  Lots of ways. What's your responsibility? Now, just take a step back. That is not the only way to see it. What if virtues of being are desiring you?
• 9:13
  What if something is is calling you towards it through you? Because virtues of being just exist. They just exist. They might flirt with you. They might respond to your approach actually.
• 9:43
  So if it's true that meaning meaningness vibes comes from closeness, approach, clarity about virtues of being, then, well, that sounds pretty important. Or like from another angle, it sounds crazy to try to live a human life without taking that into account. In a way like, if this is true, then a life that doesn't have some intentionality around this is kind of haphazard. Because actually pleasure is not the thing you really want. Pleasure is a nice texture.
• 10:24
  But there are people who are replete, they're dying from pleasure, but they have no meaning. There are people who have lots of meaning and very little pleasure and they're full. So should we apply, agency? Should we do something about this? Should we sign up for something?
• 10:47
  Should we put ourselves into, a system of transformation like Sufism or Zen or Tibetan Buddhism or I don't know. There's so many, right? Should we apply agency in that way? Do you have agency? Do you have it?
• 11:09
  Some people are like, I don't I don't think so because I know some people are like, really wanna commit to something but I can't. This all sounds good but I don't know how or I I like I'm missing that bone or that organ. I don't really I don't really have it. Is there a force in us that chooses this over that? Let's say you do have clarity around this and you kind of have your own hierarchy of meaning.
• 11:39
  It is more meaningful for me to go into the studio and paint than it is to scroll on my phone. Let's say that's clear, but you don't go in the studio and paint. It's more meaningful for me to meditate before I go to bed than to I don't know. But I don't. Is there then a force in us that chooses this over that?
• 12:10
  I'm interested in that. In the poem we will be reciting for a little while, Rumi says, true freedom comes to those who have escaped the questions of free will and fate. Fate being, no. I have zero agency. He says, wrong.
• 12:41
  Free will being, I can choose exactly what I want and I must actually really rather watch Netflix than meditate. Wrong. Then what are you left with? I was, reflecting on this just in terms of two archetypes, Saturn and Puer. Any astrology people in the room?
• 13:10
  Okay. Just a couple. Good. Who is who is familiar with the term Puer? Okay.
• 13:21
  Just a few. Yeah. So a the Jungians, at least they used to be, very into, the Puer, which is an archetype that means the eternal child Or if it's a they they've gendered it to a Puer Ella is like a feminine Puer. And in a way, could say it means eternal child or child of delight and also means an ungrounded child. Right?
• 13:48
  And so that is that in the world that comes through us, that lives in us, it may to some degree, that is inspired and rides inspiration. That's that part of us that wants to follow energy. Our engagement is formed of the magic of newness. We're drawn forward by by novelty, by energy, by exhilaration born of expansion. And if we're, strongly aligned or even captured by this energy, then we are needing inspiration and magic from what we do.
• 14:39
  That could be relationships. That could be jobs. We're needing inspiration and magic. But the problem is that inspiration and magic come and go, and they go and come. There's like a cultural myth that I notice and I think this affects people's commitment to a spiritual tradition that I want a job that I feel I wake up every day and I'm excited to do it.
• 15:11
  And I'm like, every day? You wake up every day and you're excited? Like, fantasy is this? What fantasy is this? You might you might feel the meaningless vibes of that lane you're in, but excited?
• 15:29
  Magic? So then, what happens with our closeness to virtues of being when inspiration and magic come and go? Well, when we're in a Puer style of being or Puella style of being, we look for something new to give it to us. We move on. We're like, what do those folks have going on?
• 16:02
  It looks a little bit more colorful. It looks a little more juicy. Right? Or we conclude that there's nothing left in the place where we're at that we've hit the bottom of it. It's like when we're in the Puerre style of being, the way we've been getting magic and inspiration is is like a piece of food that we've chewed and now the flavor is gone.
• 16:29
  And we're like, well, the flavor's gone. We don't question the approach. We don't look at the mind that looks for magic or inspiration. We've even got tired of blueberries. Have you people can get tired of blueberries.
• 16:46
  I it's really true. Or even though the coffee has tasting notes of roasted cactus, black currant and cocoa butter, we're like, no, I wanna drink Rasa or I wanna drink Oolong. This is a cultural flavor, Puer. It's a it's, just to make a generalization, it's a very American flavor. The new, sexy, interesting thing, new and improved.
• 17:26
  How many times have you been exposed to that image, new and improved? Walk down a grocery aisle, new and improved. Now more bold flavor. We're inundated with it. It's like we swim in it so we don't even notice how that affects us.
• 17:45
  We are we are conditioned as consumers. Now, the eternal child, of course, has many, beautiful and potent qualities. It's a very spiritual archetype because it can be profoundly inspiring. It has the it has the sufficient motivation, motivation and propulsion to transcend limitations because that's what it wants. Doesn't wanna be limited.
• 18:14
  You don't when you're in this style, anything that seems like it might box you in even a little bit, oh, not that. Box me in? Hell no. I tried Zen but they almost boxed me in. So now I'm doing whatever.
• 18:38
  Now, me contrast this with, the Saturn. So traditionally, is called the Sensei. And the Sensei means something like old man, but but implies wise old man. I think it could be wise old woman. Maybe that's a different archetype.
• 19:00
  I don't care. People are familiar with a Saturn return in astrology. I've done a lot of work with individuals who are like in that age group and I swear like you would not have doubts about astrology if you knew how many people around 26 to 29, 26 to 28 are dealing with commitment, are dealing with life is saying grow up, are dealing with can I can I root in some way? So what holds us to a fire? You can't cook in this life if you're not held to a fire.
• 19:47
  What holds us to a fire? Does anything bind you, corral you, wall you, hold you to your depth? Again, if when you when you, I think my first reaction when I hear terms like bind you, corral you or wall you, I go, oh, why would I want that? I'm not a horse. I could use words like, does anything root you?
• 20:18
  Does anything vessel you? What is your vessel? If you have a virtue of being that is vital to your spiritual wellness, what what is your what is your vessel? Do you have any structure that doesn't depend on your desire? Because our desire is fickle.
• 21:01
  Gravitas. What what rises up when we when what rises up if you imagine to whatever it may be for you saying, yes, I'm in unreservedly. Can you imagine saying that to anything? Yes, I'm in unreservedly. How does somebody do that when you grow up with this illusion of choice?
• 21:43
  And under being in something unreservedly doesn't mean the commitment is interminable. That's fake. Everything's impermanent. It doesn't mean we don't respond to changes. That's not healthy.
• 22:03
  Many people feel that nothing is good enough for me to actually manifest like that kind of sincerity. Nothing is good enough for like, it's kind of ugly, but we feel that no one is good enough. Or they feel we feel that for a while until we get close. That's that's Puer energy. But what if nothing is good enough?
• 22:30
  True. So something is good enough. Can you see the logic? Nothing is good enough. K.
• 22:36
  We're on the same page. So something is good enough. Something's good enough. Some way, path, commitment, or vessel. I am actually thinking about this and I and I don't think I think about this in a tight way.
• 23:05
  For example, the Pu'er energy is kind of like a butterfly or a hummingbird that just flies around and sips the nectar. That could be a discipline in itself. There's a there's a path there. Could you commit to that? Or if you kind of take the, the Saturn point of view, well, that's refusing to accept sacrifice as an ingredient of awakening.
• 23:39
  Grow up and get married. It's kind of the most common way this energy comes through into the world. Not very popular. So there's a tension between these these two when we think about spiritual commitment. Feeling the pull towards sipping all the nectars.
• 24:11
  But can you also feel have you ever perceived how ungrounded a hummingbird is? How much like a kind of quality of anxiety that animal has? Their heart is going a mile a minute. That heart is like, there's not even like almost not not even an interval between beats. That can't be a peaceful existence.
• 24:35
  That body is all motion. So feeling the pull and seeing the beauty in sipping all the nectars and being someone who says, I'm gonna follow the energy and only the energy. And also feel the desire in you for some gravity, for a grounding and a rooting. And this is I'm not presenting these as a hard and fast duality. Like, here are these two things.
• 25:17
  One of them's better. This one without the other is just a different kind of, neurosis. And in a way, they're they're within each other. If you think of something you commit to that has a daily ritual, you just are doing it every day. You're waking up next to the the person or you're going to the job or you're picking up the instrument.
• 25:54
  The Pu'er instinct is, can I find energy within this? Not to transcend and leap out into something new, what's novel, but what am I not seeing that's actually within this? Right? It's like, how do I freshen the organs of meeting? And then we could also say there's an unappreciated or underappreciated discipline around the courting of delight.
• 26:35
  There's a kind of, wisdom in not letting what has been a structure exert influence on you if it's not life giving. So my basic premise is what if at the bottom of everything you want and go towards, there are virtues of being. And that that is a source of of meaning, and sources of meaning are how one of the ways growth happens, then how do you lean into that? How do you lean how do you consistently lean into that? Or do you want to lean into that consistently?
• 27:33
  I don't know. Well, maybe this is like a part one or something. So those are the thoughts I have for for today. And I'm I'm interested in your thoughts about the topic.
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to the Zen Community of Oregon podcast, and thank you for your practice. New episodes air every week. Please consider making a donation at zendust.org. Your support supports us.