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Why Ken Ham Is HIDING The Truth About Ron Wyatt & Noah’s Ark | GodTVRadio · Brett Keane and Eve Show

0:05
Ladies and gentlemen, may I have your attention please?
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The show starts in 587-6543 21-GO.
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For the lamb who was slain returns close in holy flame, the
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nations following terror. The darkness tries to hide,
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While his eyes burn like fire, and his sword cut through the
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night. Chase for flame, his pride.
1:29
King of Cave, Lord of Lords, everlasting some.
1:45
Now before the King of Kings, the
1:58
crown of Four for End Omega, the prophecy for Tao, His womb is
2:08
shipped in blood. His voice, Amanda cry.
2:12
The Judge of all creation, the Great could not deny change.
2:19
For greatly great white, the soul of God will play his bride,
2:27
King of Kings, Lord of the Lords,
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everlasting sovereign sword has removed, Heaven says now before
2:45
the King of Kings. If you ride the clouds of glory,
3:01
the lion and the lamb, no dream and desert stand against the
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great I am. The water start is raining on
3:11
his chin and with the head all on a power.
3:15
Glory to the risen sauna man. King of kings, Lord of Lords,
3:45
ever lie me some in soul have the most.
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Heaven says now before the king of kings.
3:52
The King of Kings wait for her of Lords.
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None. In shadows deep, where doubts
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reside, doubts reside. The truth shines for us.
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It won't subside outside 6000 years.
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A sacred. From lations fire we shall not
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heal. The clock's been taken the size
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of light 6000 years. The truth will play light
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forever. Land creations him imagine.
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In ancient scrolls, the secret stole a world crafted by hands
6:18
of gold, just alive. God's design and twine thou
6:39
shall crumble, faith will rise. 6000 years the truth played on
6:53
this light forever lived creation Him and that's your
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life. Let hope.
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Hello there everyone welcome to GOD TV radio the songs you heard
8:20
in the intro There are two songs from my upcoming album Citizens
8:24
of Heaven song #1 being King of Kings song #2 being called the
8:29
Young earth. Hopefully you guys will tune
8:32
into my channel next week when I drop all of the songs in the
8:35
album and hopefully you guys will enjoy the full album when
8:39
it comes out. But as you can see from the
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title and the thumbnail of this live stream, tonight we are
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discussing about Ron Wyatt versus Ken Ham and more
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specifically about the existence of gatekeepers within the Young
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Earth Creationist community. To my right you have Proverbs
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guy, and to my left you got Brett Keene.
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Say hello guys. Hello.
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Hello everybody. Hey people, what's happening?
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Not much, Brett. From what I understand, Brett
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and what I've seen on your channel, you've been posting a
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lot of videos talking with AI lately.
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What led you to go down that rabbit hole in terms of content
9:20
style? Well, one of the cool things
9:22
about it is it doesn't condemn you, it doesn't attempt to argue
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with you unless you tell it it's OK to do it, and it won't send
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you to hell. That's true.
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That's certainly true. And then Proverbs guy, I
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understand that you guys have switched more to focusing on
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TikTok recently. What led to that decision?
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What led to that decision was the incredible amount of
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censorship on YouTube and the shadow banning that takes place
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on YouTube and how they hide you in the algorithm.
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So I said, forget YouTube, it's going to just be basically a
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secondary source for us. So we started building up our
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TikTok channel and now TikTok is bigger than our YouTube
10:06
ministry. How many followers do you guys
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have on TikTok? Going on 4000, we're headed up
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that direction. It's pretty good.
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And how much views do you get in general?
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Like a general number. So typically I'd say we get
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about 1000 views per per short because it's mostly short form.
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But even when I post an hour long video on TikTok I'm getting
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3 or 4 or 500 views. I have one short on TikTok about
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Ron Wyatt that has over 300,000 views and I have never had that
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happen in three years of Youtubing.
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Wow, that is pretty impressive. If I wasn't such a stickler for
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not developing a short attention span, I might dip my toe more
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into short form content. Well, you know the cool thing
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about it is I think it's 5000, but once you hit 5000
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subscribers, you can live stream full content.
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So you only have to get past that short period of time before
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you can utilize TikTok the same way people are YouTube.
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OK that makes sense. I should probably get used to
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YouTube shorts though before I do something like that because I
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know it's for I know it's for Gangster Ghosts YouTube channel
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in particular. He grew exponentially on YouTube
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once he started posting a lot of shorts.
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The TTOR, if you end up doing some kind of live stuff, if
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Proverbs ends up plugging you and you end up getting 1000
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followers, Stream Yards has the ability to do the live show in
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short format, so you'd be all right there.
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Cool. That's cool.
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Well, since we all know what the main show is tonight, I will let
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Proverbs guy Steven take the lead in explaining to us the
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whole situation about Ken Ham versus Ron Wyatt and the
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gatekeeping involved towards keeping Ron Wyatt out of
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mainstream young Earth creationism.
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And he can also tell us how he got into making all those videos
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and all those Facebook posts about the topic.
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Yeah, so I'll go ahead and start there.
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And it was a really good story. I've become good friends with
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the Wyatt family. I've got to visit Mary Nell, who
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is Ron's widowed wife, several times.
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And I've been able to go down into their museum and I've been
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able to hold the artifacts myself.
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So I have held in my hand the sulfur balls from Sodom and
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Gomorrah. I have held in my hand femur
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bones from people of the city of Sodom and Gomorrah.
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I've held artifacts from the bottom of the Red Sea Crossing.
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I held a chunk of deck timber from Noah's Ark.
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And it goes on and on. I've even got to examine the
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bones of a giant. I've held a giant's toe in my
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hand and they found in one of the ancient graves that they
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believed to be Missus Noah, a finger that is 7 or 8 inches
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long. And that sparked my interest.
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I was already a firm believer, but I thought, you know what,
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God is telling us this for the last generation and there's no
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way we can let it go in vain. So I started advocating for Ron
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Wyatt and then I have found myself as one of his biggest
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spokesman. I am strong supporter of his
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research and that's why I did the short documentary on the
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conspiracy against Ron Wyatt. And I've actually come across
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more information since doing that video.
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So there will be a Part 2 coming very soon.
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And I just want to say for all of you young Earth creationists
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who are fans of Ron Wyatt, I am going head to head with Ken Ham
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and I'm going to hold him accountable for setting back
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creationism 30 or 40 years. Yeah, it sounds like a big
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endeavor, but please explain more about what exactly the
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creationism community did to blackball Ron Wyatt's work.
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Like what was it specifically that they had a problem with and
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therefore discredit to the point where you have AIG writing
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articles about arguments that creationists shouldn't use?
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Yeah. So the evidence that supports
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Ron Wyatt's claims is irrefutable.
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And that's what makes me so sad, that Answers in Genesis would go
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down the avenue of rejecting the claims of Ron Wyatt because we
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have an abundance of evidence. And I'm just going to take one
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example. Out of all the places that he
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claimed to have discovered in Mount Sinai, in Saudi, in Saudi
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Arabia, and at this location, the mountain of God, Mount
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Sinai, where God came down as fire on the top of the mountain
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to talk to the children of Israel.
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We have found the exact mountain where the top of its peak is
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scorched black, covered in soot. I've held the rocks in my hands
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that are still covered in the black soot on one side and
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Answers in Genesis, along with all the big name creationists
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out there with the exception of Kent Hovind, will say that it's
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desert varnish. However, they know that it's a
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blatant lie and the reason they know it is because they have
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Christian Scientists on their team and they know how desert
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varnish works. First of all, desert varnish
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doesn't pick a spot. It covers everything.
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But what we see at the mountain of God, Mount Sinai, is that it
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is only pitched black at the peak of the mountain, meaning
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the desert varnish would have had to miss the entire
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landscape, valleys and mountains all around it and only hit the
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top of the mountain. And that is scientifically
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impossible. Since then we have found the
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split rock that is right outside of the mountain of God.
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We have found the altar where they worshipped the calf that
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they made into an image of God. They still have the hieroglyphic
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type imagery carved into the rock with the bulls showing that
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that is where the sacrifice took place.
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We had it completely mapped out and at this point there's no way
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around it. The creationists are gatekeeping
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and they are purposely trying to discredit Rome's discoveries.
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I did bring with me a few points as to why I think this would be
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the case, and there's five main points, but it goes even deeper
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than that. And if you guys want after that
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point, we can get deeper into it, OK?
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Go ahead. So my number one reason is the
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lack of credibility. It damages the movement
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according to the creationists. You know, Ron Wyatt's methods
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and claims were they were often criticized for lacking
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scientific evidence, which is a lie because all of his
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discoveries were open to the public from the time of the
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discovery, even to this day, to this day.
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You can contact Mary Nell Wyatt Lee and you can ask for an
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appointment and she will take you into their museum and show
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you all of the artifacts. You know, an example of the
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gatekeeping ministries is Answers in Genesis.
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It's an Institute for Creation Research and they've publicly
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distanced themselves with many articles and references in their
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books against Ron Wyatt. I think it was because he's
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sensational and they claimed that he was unverified in that
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his discoveries didn't meet scientific scrutiny and the
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creation appeared to they appeared to hate him because
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they thought he was a pseudo scientific minded person and
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nothing could be further from the truth.
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I've interviewed his brother and I know exactly what facts and
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evidence meant to Ron Wyatt. You know, you also have the
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media coverage of Ron Wyatt, which tried to undermine him as
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a less respectable or not academic source.
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Now, why they would want to silence him is to maintain the
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credibility of the broader creationist movement.
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You know, he made a lot of sensational claims.
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For instance, he claims to see angels take the mercy seat off
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of the Ark of the Covenant and reveal the 10 commandments to
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him. Now, this would make certain
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denominations like Baptist or Methodist very uneasy.
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They don't like these sorts of sensational claims.
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It's almost like they think that we serve a dead God in 2025.
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And I completely disagree with that.
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You know, the second biggest reason I think would be
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theological conflicts. You know, Ron Wyatt was not a
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7th Day Adventist, but he did attend 7th Day Adventist
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churches because he kept the biblical feasts and he was a
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Sabbath keeper. Now to most of the creation
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ministries who primarily happened to be Baptist leaning.
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They see anyone that has anything to do with the 7th Day
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Adventist church as a heretic and for God to validate in their
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eyes this heretic would cause great great disunity in the body
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of Christ from the narratives that they've already curated
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themselves. He claimed that he found the
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blood of Jesus on the Ark of the Covenant and that it only had 24
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chromosomes, including one from a male donor.
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He believed that God personally intervened to protect his
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discoveries. A lot of people don't know this,
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but Ron Wyatt was even kidnapped by Turkish terrorists on one of
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his trips and he was held hostage for 21 days.
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Now, I want you to consider that Ron Wyatt never gained a dollar
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into his personal bank account. Everything he raised he put
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right back into archaeology, into traveling overseas.
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So Ron Wyatt did not die a rich man, and he had to be on to
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something. For him to go through being
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kidnapped by Turkish terrorists and held against his will for 21
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days. And this is just one of the
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stories of Ron going through tremendously demonic attacks he
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still kept on course. And truthfully, I think that
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with ministries like Answers in Genesis, who has never really
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lifted a finger for creationism, they almost are jealous of him.
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And I want to ask you guys, you know, what do you think Ron
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Wyatt would gain after going through the kidnapping and going
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through the mockery? You know, what would he have
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gained in all of that? Well, unless he was just seeking
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attention, it seems like he gained nothing.
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Exactly. And not only that good point
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Justin. But the attention he did get was
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almost always negative attention.
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The news called him crazy. The ministries that should have
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been supporting him called him a nut job.
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So he never gained any good attention.
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Not not once, not one, you know, recognizable name stood by his
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side and and not mocked him except again for Kent Hovind.
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So, you know, for point #3 it's jealousy or competition.
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You know, in some cases, professional jealousy may play a
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role. You know, Ron Wyatt was an
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amateur without any former archaeological training.
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And that would make creationist very angry because they have
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sent actually trained scientist over and they couldn't find what
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Ron Wyatt found in a matter of three years.
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It undermines the authority of formally trained creation
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archaeologists. It draws attention and funding a
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way for more conservative creationist research efforts.
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Now, you know, let me ask you this guys, if you're a, a
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wealthy Christian with deep pockets, would you donate to a
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ministry who claims that all of these artifacts are dead and
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gone and we can't find them? Or would you donate to the
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ministry that was actually going overseas and finding these
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places that are talked about in the Bible?
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Well, I guess I'll respond. I would personally pay for the
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ones who are seeking the evidence and the information in
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order to build a stronger foundation for Christianity,
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obviously. Exactly.
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And Answers in Genesis, I think is the head creation ministry
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behind the conspiracy plot. I think it actually falls right
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on the lap of Ken Ham and I think it's because he was afraid
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of losing money. First of all, his donations
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would dry up, but second of all, to validate the claims of Ron
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Wyatt, he would have to RIP probably 1/4 of his articles off
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the Internet. And in addition to that, he
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would have to pull many of his books off the shelves that they
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sell, which are now known to be full of misinformation #4 we
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have fear of hoaxes or embarrassment.
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Now we all know the type of scrutiny that Christians undergo
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all the time and we already get a great deal of mockery.
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So I think that it's only fair to say that getting behind these
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types of claims and supporting Ron Wyatt would open Answers in
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Genesis up to a great deal of scrutiny that personally, I
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don't think they have the courage to take on this.
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You have a point. DTR, did you have a response?
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No, I was just listening. It seems like they had some
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extra motivation on why they would do something like this to
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this man who benefited and actually lost in the process as
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opposed to gaining anything positive in the matter.
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This kind of finding could turn evolution upside down.
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Obviously, this could change how religions all over the world
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world look at the concept of God and the Bible.
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So yeah. And it would also answer a lot
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of questions and skepticism that our atheist friends have.
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Exactly, Brett. And not just that, but the
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Turkish site which is where he found Noah's Ark.
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It's it's not been accepted by mainstream archaeology or even
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most creationists. Now, what's interesting about
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that is that the Noah's Ark site in Turkey has been claimed by
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the Turkish government, which, mind you, is primarily Muslim.
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So they gain absolutely nothing by establishing the claims of
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the Christian faith. And yet when the Turkish
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government examined to this site, they said that it is no
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question at all that this is Noah's Ark.
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Now what would the Turkish government gain, Gus?
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Before we continue, TTORI don't know if you realize this, but it
25:08
was not mentioned that in a little while after we discussed
25:12
the topic, there will be an open panel where people can come in
25:15
and question and discuss the topics.
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If you so choose, go ahead. Brett Kane.
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Brett Kane is correct, by the way.
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I meant to say that in the beginning.
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It just slipped my mind. So after Steven goes through
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what he's talking about and after I go through my
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contributions to his topic, we will open up the room for anyone
25:35
watching to join us. Proceed, Steven.
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Thank you. Now, one big reason why they may
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want to silence him is to avoid association with potential
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hosts. They don't want to get behind
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these big, bold claims and then find out in five years that it
25:54
was a hoax and they look stupid. They feel that that would help
25:57
them lose credibility. Except my counter to that
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argument is that these claims have been known for 30 plus
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years now. And in 30 years they have not
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been able to disprove the Red Sea crossing.
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They cannot disprove Mount Sinai, they can't disprove Sodom
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and Gomorrah. They cannot disprove the Noah's
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Ark location. They can't disprove any of it.
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And it's been 30 years. So I'd like to think, in my
26:22
opinion, if there was strong evidence that Ron Wyatt was a
26:25
liar, we would see it by now. And we would see it other than
26:29
the ridiculous opinion of weak men like Ken Ham.
26:35
As far as the Red Sea goes, I actually looked into some
26:38
information on that. There's actually a lot of
26:41
evidence for this and abundance, actually.
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Apparently some deep divers have found Chariots and other things.
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As most out there who've read Exodus realize, the Egyptians,
26:52
whenever they were following Moses, they were covered by the
26:55
ocean and killed. Exactly, Brett.
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And not just that, not only did they find the chariot wheels at
27:02
the bottom of the Red Sea, but they found bones from some of
27:06
the Egyptians at the bottom of the Red Sea.
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Of course, by now it was just hollowed out coral, but you can
27:12
clearly make out a femur bone without any question.
27:15
And in addition to that, they have located at the precise site
27:20
where Ron Wyatt claimed it was the Red Sea crossing, the
27:23
pillars that mark the Red Sea crossing that were erected by
27:27
King Solomon. So not only are creationists
27:31
going out of their way to shoot themselves in the foot and
27:34
discredit their own information, but I think it also goes down to
27:39
not wanting to cause an internal division in the denominations.
27:43
You know, we already have young earth and old earth
27:45
creationists. We have literalist and figure
27:48
list interpretations. You know, the people who say
27:51
every word of God is true and accurate.
27:53
And then you have the others that say no, this is more of an
27:56
allegory. So in addition to that, you have
27:59
apologetic based creationist versus sensationalist
28:03
approaches, which is what they would consider Ron's work to be.
28:06
You know, Ron Wyatt. Wyatt's work leaned heavily
28:10
towards sensationalism, which many creationists all is
28:13
dangerous or unserious, except he had the scientific evidence.
28:18
He had the proof in his hand, the tangible items that any of
28:22
these creationists could have evaluated.
28:24
You know, they all made the claim that his stuff was not
28:27
peer reviewed. But that is a lie from the pit
28:29
of hell. Everything that Ron Wyatt ever
28:32
found was open to the public. It was open to scrutiny.
28:36
And we see that he even took some of these artifacts onto CNN
28:40
when CNN interviewed him. He never tried to keep these
28:43
discoveries from the masses and he never tried to hide his work.
28:48
So it's an unfair claim that they make.
28:51
Now, I would like to show this short clip.
28:54
TTOR if you could pop this up on the screen for me.
28:57
Sure can, just waiting for your screen share.
29:00
All right, make sure yeah, I'm sharing audio.
29:05
Yeah, there you. Go.
29:08
Oh, I see something. Uh huh.
29:10
Now just let me put it right there.
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And there you go. Now my last and I think possibly
29:21
one of my most important questions for you is, you know,
29:24
in my heart, I firmly believe that there was an an
29:28
orchestrated conspiracy against your brother's research.
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Do you believe that there was a conspiracy against Ron Wyatt?
29:38
I believe it with my whole heart.
29:40
I I believe it with everything that that I am.
29:45
I've I've saw. It in actions, I felt it with
29:49
me. I mean, I'm, I'm a nobody.
29:52
The only recognition that I really get is I'm Ron's brother
29:56
and and I knew him, but but that kind of just propelled me into
30:02
the spotlight And I it's it's interesting.
30:08
I've I've had people tell me different situations.
30:13
I won't say it out loud, but why, why they would do it?
30:20
It's beyond my wildest dreamer imagination.
30:27
And, and why, you know, if, if I go to show some people what I
30:33
found or what Ron found and I can show with pictures and a
30:38
testimony. Look, I know this is true.
30:41
I've seen it, I touched it, I smelled it.
30:43
I've got sulfur balls in my car that I take and show, you know,
30:48
purely they can say, hey, well, we know Sodom's true because
30:51
hey, this guy's got some stuff and we know this is true.
30:55
But they, they wanted this part Everything.
30:58
It's beyond me. And I, if I find the answer out,
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I think it's, it's a conspiracy of evil against God's what God
31:11
wants people to know. I think this is God's work.
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That's why I do it. That's why, that's why I go play
31:18
and, and of course I'm retired and I don't need their money.
31:23
So, so I, I could use some money to buy books and things like
31:28
that, but I'm not, I, I, I, I don't need, I've got a pension.
31:32
I don't need any things like that.
31:35
I don't know if there's any better way to end the interview
31:38
than that, unless there's anything else you want to share
31:40
with us. No, I, I, I think that's, I
31:45
think that's a good point, Steven.
31:47
Thanks for having me. And if, if somebody, if I'm
31:51
close. Thank my dove just lit.
31:56
Perfect timing. It's it's you know, I'd be glad
32:01
to come and share Mary Nails got more stuff than I do, but but
32:07
that's OK. I I I know who goes with I'm
32:11
never alone. I and, and, and God, God will
32:16
see us through. Daniel went to the lion's den.
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The Hebrews, they went to the furnace.
32:23
But truth wins and, and, and we believe it so.
32:29
Amen. Amen.
32:34
All right. So that's the interview, a clip
32:39
of the interview that I have with Ron Wyatt's brother.
32:42
And as you could see, I start off that clip by asking him flat
32:46
out, do you believe there was a conspiracy against your brother
32:50
Ron Wyatt? And undoubtedly he didn't even
32:53
have to think about it. He said yes, there is.
33:00
Well, that is good news because if your own brother said yeah,
33:04
he's full of it, that would be a bad look.
33:07
Well, and you're well. I but then.
33:10
Again, Jesus is sorry. Go ahead, Brett.
33:13
Now I'll go. OK, I, I was going to say it's a
33:16
very sad and devastating story. I mean, I could see the pain in
33:20
the man's eyes. He knows that his brother was
33:23
doing trying to serve God and find this evidence and
33:26
information for the world. And to be done like that, it, it
33:30
couldn't possibly just hurt Ron himself.
33:33
It had to tore the whole family up realizing that their, their
33:38
son or their relative was trying to do the best he could.
33:41
And this is how he got got done, not just by the science
33:44
community and the news and the media, but by Christians
33:47
themselves. That almost feels almost like a
33:50
execution. Go ahead.
33:53
Yeah, that was a good point. I was just going to say, in
33:57
Jesus's ministry on earth in the 1st 1st century, there was a
34:02
point in time where even his own family members thought he was
34:06
crazy and actually came to take him home on one occasion.
34:09
That's when he dropped the line about how his disciples were his
34:12
real siblings, his real parents, his real family.
34:16
So even if his own brother had disbelieved him, that would not
34:21
have disproven Ron Wyatt's claims or discoveries.
34:24
But there is a certain emotional hurt that comes when your own
34:30
family doesn't believe you. But the fact that his brother
34:33
totally believes in what Ron did with his work and understands
34:37
that he was blackballed by all sides, I think is something that
34:41
means something good to those who support Ron Wyatt's work.
34:47
Exactly. Now, I do want to be fair
34:50
because even though I believe in my heart that Ken Ham is the
34:54
leader of this conspiracy plot, he's not the only one with dirty
34:58
hands. And I can't say for sure if he's
35:03
doing it because he wants to purposefully lie or if he does
35:07
truly believe in his heart that there's not enough evidence.
35:10
I don't see how that could be the case with the massive amount
35:13
of evidence that we have. But I want to be fair, and I
35:17
also want to say that it's not just Ken Ham, it's Eric Hoeven,
35:22
and it's a long list of other creationists who have mocked and
35:25
denied and tried to downplay these discoveries that the Lord
35:28
gave us for these end times. And you know, my last point is,
35:34
if you guys can tell me what Ron Wyatt claimed from these or you
35:39
know, was credited to him from these claims, what he gained by
35:43
making it all up, I'll eat my hat.
35:46
But the man went through kidnapping.
35:48
He went through mockery. He did not die a wealthy man.
35:51
And he worked his tail off to save money to invest his own
35:56
resources into going over and discovering these places for you
36:00
and me. That's not just that.
36:03
From what I read, it sounded like it was a very dangerous
36:06
area in which he went in the region was very violent and
36:10
aggressive to go into an area looking for artifacts of that
36:14
nature. He's literally putting his life
36:16
on the line. So he put it all on the line for
36:20
this evidence for people. So whoever this is, open your
36:27
eyes. UK emergency frequency, they
36:29
say. Put it this way, what would be
36:32
the point of the mercy seat if it was not under the crucifixion
36:36
seat? Ron's work ties the whole book
36:38
together. All sacrifice blood is on that
36:41
mercy seat for God. Exactly.
36:45
Now, I'm not sure what format you wanted to keep to it guys,
36:49
or how long you're wanting to run, but I do have a 9 minute
36:54
clip that's a compilation of all the news that Ron got when he
36:59
was kidnapped, if you'd like to show that as evidence because a
37:02
lot of people don't know that he was in fact taken by terrorists,
37:06
but it was on every news outlet. I will show that right now as
37:10
soon as you give it to. Me.
37:12
All right, Let me share this with you.
37:14
Be prepared. You want me to start putting the
37:17
link out and you just keep people backstage until we're
37:20
done with the topic? Yeah, let's and, and after I'm
37:24
done giving my $0.10, yeah, we'll do that.
37:27
All right, TTOR, if you want, you can go ahead and share my
37:30
screen and let me know when you're ready for me to hit play.
37:33
The screen is on right now. Since an Australian and a
37:38
British citizen were kidnapped in Turkey late Friday, Turkish
37:42
authorities say the Westerners were on a mission in search of
37:45
Noah's Ark when they were abducted by a band of Turkish
37:48
separatists near Carlovia. The group was working on a
37:51
television special, the TV company's owner told CNN.
37:54
The rebels are known to take hostages to embarrass their
37:57
government. US.
38:00
Nashville from Channel 4. Years.
38:05
This is the scene at 10 with Laura Brooks, Cynthia Woodjacks,
38:09
Mike Bohan and Joe Fisher. Good evening.
38:16
American and Turkish authorities are trying to find 5 westerners
38:19
tonight who were kidnapped earlier today by Kurdish rebels.
38:23
One of the men is a Nashville amateur archaeologist.
38:26
Ron Wyatt was in Turkey with a group which is trying to prove
38:29
the existence of Noah's Ark. There's been no word on how the
38:33
search is going, but Wyatt's wife is confident they will be
38:36
released. Ron Wyatt is an anesthesiology
38:41
nurse by profession, but his main focus in life, according to
38:44
his wife, is archaeology, specifically proving that Noah's
38:48
Ark exists. In 1959, he saw a picture of a
38:52
boat shaped object in Life magazine and was more than
38:56
deeply impressed that that was the remains of Noah's Ark.
38:59
And he's went out there in 77 and he's gone out there many
39:02
times every year since then. And you know, has proven beyond
39:09
a shadow of a doubt that it is. Noah Wyatt was inter westerners
39:14
when they were kidnapped early this morning by Kurdish
39:17
guerrillas. Kurdish Workers Party is the
39:19
group suspected in the kidnapping, kidnapped 10 German
39:23
tourists from the same area earlier this month.
39:25
They were released a week later. Wyatt's business partner, Doug
39:29
Snyder, says on this trip, Wyatt was trying to, quote, arrange a
39:33
preliminary excavation on the site that we believe is, in
39:36
fact, Noah's Ark in preparation for a primetime television
39:39
special now in production. Wyatt's wife says the
39:42
information that will be in that special will change people's
39:45
lives. But when they have something
39:47
tangible to look at and see and scientific evidence, then it
39:53
gives them a reason for the faith.
39:57
Mary Nell Wyatt acknowledges that spending so much time in
40:00
Turkey is risky. Ron Wyatt has made 30 trips
40:03
there since 1977, but she's confident her husband will be
40:07
released. I expect them to be released and
40:11
go about their work. They're over there for a
40:13
purpose. And the State Department says
40:16
it's monitoring the kidnapping in Washington and at the US
40:19
Embassy in Ankara. The rebels that took Wyatt want
40:22
a separate Kurdish state in what is now eastern Turkey.
40:26
And this area is called the Black Hell.
40:31
It's a very, very rough terrain. And on our way out, after we had
40:38
gotten away from these terrorists and we're being flown
40:42
out by helicopter, we were able to video some of this to give
40:48
you an idea of the type terrain that we had to travel through
40:53
every night for approximately 21 nights.
40:57
Wyatt was in Turkey with five other Westerners when they were
41:00
kidnapped early this morning by Kurdish guerrillas.
41:03
Kurdish Workers Party is the group suspected in the
41:05
kidnapping. Mary Nell Wyatt acknowledges
41:08
that spending so much time in Turkey is risky.
41:11
Ron Wyatt has made 30 trips there since 1977, but she's
41:15
confident her husband will be released.
41:18
I expect them to be released and go about their work.
41:22
They're over there for a purpose.
41:24
Today, Wyatt's wife was told by the State Department that her
41:27
husband's long time escort and driver, who is with the group
41:30
just before the kidnapping had been arrested by the Turkish
41:34
government, questioned about possible involvement with the
41:36
kidnappers and then was released this morning.
41:39
I was concerned because I knew that Ron was very close to De
41:43
Levar and I knew how he trusted him.
41:46
He trusts him in ways that he doesn't trust a lot of people.
41:50
And so I knew there was no doubt.
41:52
And I, you know, I felt helpless.
41:55
I wanted to do something. But Mary Nell still has no word
41:59
about her husband. There's really nothing.
42:02
They don't have any new information as such.
42:05
They told me that while they know it was near the the town of
42:11
Bengal that they were taking hostage, they don't they still
42:15
don't know where they are. They still don't know which
42:21
particular group is claiming responsibility for this because
42:24
there's been no claim and no demands made yet.
42:28
But there is speculation that it was the Kurdish Workers Party
42:31
that kidnapped the men, the same group that kidnapped 10 German
42:34
tourists from the same area a month ago.
42:37
What I've heard is that the group that have him doesn't like
42:40
tourism over in Turkey or anything.
42:43
And. He's working on a project that
42:46
would bring a whole lot of tourism into the country.
42:50
At first I was very worried about him.
42:53
I still am that I believe that he is doing the Lords work and
42:58
that everything will turn out the way it's supposed to.
43:01
It looks to me like they just want a a microphone to be heard
43:07
and this is the only way they can get it.
43:09
Well, actually a lot is going on, but.
43:11
I'm kind of. The Wyatt's phone won't stop
43:13
ringing. Anxious relatives and friends
43:15
are slowly getting the disturbing news.
43:19
I'm nervous. I'm concerned because he's one
43:22
of the nicest men. I he was in Lebanon, it would
43:25
disturb me greatly, but it it wasn't.
43:30
To listen to Mary Nell Wyatt, one might think her husband Ron
43:34
is just late coming home from work.
43:36
Hers hardly seems the voice of someone whose spouse disappeared
43:40
a week ago, reportedly the captive of violent rebels
43:44
thousands of miles away. Ron makes takes only calculated
43:49
risks. You know he weighs everything
43:54
before he does something. Wyatt's confident tone belies
43:58
her faith, faith in her religion and faith that her husband is
44:02
about to be free. Ron Wyatt is a nurse in
44:06
Nashville, but he's dedicated his life to proving that this
44:10
formation in the mountains of eastern Turkey is in fact the
44:14
remains of Noah's Ark. 8 days ago, the US State Department
44:18
said members of the Kurdish Workers Party, or PKK, kidnapped
44:23
Wyatt and four others on a tour through eastern Turkey.
44:27
The PKK is a rebel group fighting for an independent
44:30
Kurdish state in eastern Turkey and northern Iraq.
44:34
You know, they're living under other governments and they're
44:36
just trying to strong on their way somehow to exert their
44:44
dominance. Today, The Associated Press
44:47
reported that Wyatt and his colleagues would be freed
44:50
tomorrow. The AP says PKK leaders made
44:54
that claim in a message to a Turkish newspaper.
44:57
But that report conflicts with a French wire service story today.
45:01
It quotes a PKK leader denying any involvement in a kidnapping.
45:05
Then we were flown out by helicopter from there to Batman,
45:13
Turkey. There, the Blackhawk squadron,
45:16
it was a helicopter battle group, were on maneuvers.
45:21
And as we went back out over the area, we were able to film a bit
45:27
of that. And what I didn't know was that
45:32
there was a very large twin propped helicopter bristling
45:38
with armament that was shadowing us.
45:42
From where I was sitting, I couldn't see this.
45:45
So I was. Shall we say not a happy camper
45:49
until we got to the Blackhawk landing base at Batman.
45:54
From there we were flown into Enscherlich Air Force Base.
45:59
These people treated us very, very nicely.
46:03
Everybody, the Australian, the Britain and ourselves.
46:08
And shall we say we were given some psychological information
46:15
so that we wouldn't think we were crazy when we had bad
46:19
dreams about being back out in the area and having flashbacks
46:23
and that sort of thing. A Nashville woman says her
46:25
husband looks tired and a little thinner but otherwise in good
46:29
health after the ordeal he's been through.
46:31
Mary Nell Wyatt today got to see the first pictures of her
46:34
husband Ron since Kurdish rebels released him from three weeks
46:38
of. Captivity.
46:40
Oh, it's so good to see him. Ron Wyatt is an amateur
46:47
archaeologist who was kidnapped in eastern Turkey along with
46:50
four other Westerners. They were constantly travelling
46:55
by foot that they were moving them around all night long and
47:00
then the only time they could sleep was during the day and
47:02
they said it was so cold that and they they didn't have warm
47:07
clothing. Mrs. Wyatt expects her husband
47:10
home early next week. First class.
47:44
Noah's Ark. But they were abducted by
47:46
Kurdish rebels and held for three weeks.
47:49
They were finally released and Wyatt returned home to Dallas
47:51
last week. Wyatt says he found the final
47:54
resting place of the. Well, I just have one question
48:03
after witnessing all of that. Are there people out there who
48:09
claim that he was never kidnapped by terrorists?
48:13
I don't know that they outwardly claim he was never kidnapped by
48:17
terrorists, but they do make it sound like all of his trips
48:20
overseas were fluff trips and basically vacations and he never
48:24
endured any kind of hardship to prove these claims.
48:28
And as you guys have just seen, that is a total lie.
48:33
May I read? He was literally kidnapped by.
48:36
He was literally kidnapped by terrorists while trying to find
48:39
Noah's Ark. I don't.
48:43
It doesn't get more dangerous than that, ladies and gentlemen.
48:47
Very dangerous. You guys mind if I read some
48:49
information about that real quick you might find
48:51
interesting? Go for it, Brett.
48:53
Yes, that'll be that'll be the last point about Ron Wyatt
48:56
before I transition this into my segment.
48:59
All right, so I I've been back here watching, listening, but
49:03
also doing text back and forth with my AI instead of voice
49:07
because I wanted to hear the what the segment was that Mister
49:12
Proverbs was playing and says yes.
49:14
Ron Wyatt was kidnapped in Turkey in August 1991 along with
49:17
four others while waiting to obtain an excavation permit for
49:21
the Drupner site, which he believed to be the resting place
49:25
with Noah's Ark. The group, including Wyatt,
49:28
Americans Richard Reeves, Marvin Wilson, Australian Allen
49:31
Robertson, British tourist Gareth Thomas was seized by
49:35
Curtis Guerrillas. That's some serious business,
49:38
ladies and gentlemen. In eastern Turkey near Mount
49:41
Ararat. They were held for 21 days and
49:44
experienced White Wyatt's wife described as terrible for those
49:49
involved. After the release, they were
49:50
taken to the Incirlik US air base where they were reported to
49:55
be in good health but underwent further medical examinations.
49:59
The kid kidnapping drew significant media attention and
50:02
disrupted Wyatt's plans. That would explain why it is
50:06
that that even happened. They could have been actually
50:09
paid by some kind of government or some kind of group in order
50:13
to go up there and disrupt his his archaeological fines and
50:18
keep him until they could send him over through the Embassy of
50:22
America. Yeah, that's definitely possible
50:27
for sure. What do you think of that idea,
50:31
Steven? I mean, I think with my
50:35
research, I've always considered Ron a hero of the faith and I I
50:41
think very highly of him. But after doing my research, I
50:46
can't tell you for certainty who is behind it.
50:49
I have my speculations, but I know beneath the shadow of doubt
50:52
that there was an orchestrated conspiracy plot against Ron
50:56
Wyatt. Yes, I am open to that
51:02
possibility because of everything I'm about to discuss
51:06
in my segments. And it's unfortunate that we
51:09
have gatekeepers in the young earth creationist community who
51:13
gatekeep what gets allowed to be discussed and what's allowed to
51:16
be considered evidence and what's not, because the truth
51:20
doesn't operate that way. Now, the reason why it's bad, as
51:25
you pointed out already earlier, is that creationists are already
51:29
under a bunch of scrutiny and ridicule and censorship from
51:34
mainstream media, mainstream academia, mainstream scientific
51:40
community, and atheists and agnostics in general.
51:43
I'm going to share on screen a couple of books that I think
51:47
those watching this will appreciate getting and reading
51:51
because it will open your eyes to a lot of this stuff.
51:55
The first one that I would like to show on screen if it will let
51:59
me add. There we go is Slaughter of the
52:02
Dissidents by Jerry Bergman. This is a amazing book and the
52:07
first in several books that discuss basically censorship of
52:12
Christians and creationists in the scientific and academic
52:15
community before censorship was made cool in the last 10 years.
52:20
Then there's the sequel book, Silencing the Darwin Skeptics,
52:23
The War Against Theists, which is Slaughter of the Dissidents
52:26
Volume 2. And then there's the third book
52:29
called Censoring the Darwin Skeptics, how belief in
52:32
evolution is enforced by eliminating dissidents.
52:35
And this is volume 3 of the Slaughter of the Dissidents
52:39
series. I have all three of these books
52:42
right next to me, actually on the bookshelf that's next to my
52:44
computer. But if you guys want to get the
52:46
books for yourselves, as you can see, they're all on Amazon and
52:49
they're not terribly expensive, and they're definitely very
52:53
valuable historical documents in terms of documenting the
52:57
censorship that Christians and creationists have gone through.
53:01
I mean, we've had people's lives destroyed for committing the
53:04
thought crime of being a creationist.
53:06
We've had people's academic careers, torpedoes tanked naked
53:10
out of orbit because they dared to commit the thought crime of
53:13
being young or creationists or creationists of any kind in some
53:18
cases. I'll give you an example though,
53:20
of how AIG and other mainstream creationist ministries like them
53:27
and ICR and Creation Today, etcetera, how they gatekeep
53:31
what's allowed to be mainstream in the YEC movement.
53:35
I have a friend who runs the Creation Engineering Concepts
53:39
ministry. His name is Doctor JD Mitchell.
53:41
He's someone who I actually used to film presentations of one of
53:45
his other creationist ministries about a decade ago, and he's
53:49
someone I got to know, and he's really smart and really
53:52
articulate. And he actually did a fossil
53:56
guidebook a few years back, which is the only fossil
53:59
guidebook, to my knowledge, that is written from the young Nerf
54:02
creationist perspective. But before he made that fossil
54:05
guidebook, he made this book you see on screen called The
54:08
Creation Dialogues, a response to the position of the American
54:12
Association for the Advancement of Science on Evolution
54:15
Christianity. So what made this particular
54:19
book very powerful for me is that JD Mitchell does a great
54:24
job of combining traditional academic research on creationist
54:31
topics into his own personal experiences of going to museums,
54:35
of going to fossil beds and actually looking at the stuff
54:39
for himself. He tried to get his book picked
54:42
up by Answers in Genesis and ICR and those other mainstream
54:46
creationist ministries, and they rejected his book because it
54:52
didn't. It wasn't purely 100% academic
54:56
research of the traditional variety.
54:58
They didn't like the fact that he integrated his own personal
55:01
experiences of going to museums and fossil beds into the book.
55:06
And having read the creation dialogues myself, it is one of
55:10
the best creationist books I've ever read and I have a lot of
55:15
them on my bookshelf. So when I heard that reasoning
55:19
coming from JD Mitchell as to why his book didn't get picked
55:22
up by those ministries, I was honestly in shock and awe.
55:25
I was like, Oh my God, if that's true you guys are dumb as hell
55:30
because this is one of the best books I've ever read.
55:33
It's the fact that he combines his personal experience of going
55:36
to these places and comparing it to traditional research.
55:40
That's what makes it compelling. And yet AIG and ICR and all
55:45
those other gatekeepers in the YAC movement literally will not
55:48
let people like my friend have their books sold in their online
55:51
stores because, well, they don't like the way he wrote it
55:55
basically, even though it's really good.
55:58
But that's not the only way that they gatekeep.
56:03
Now, there is a subject that has come up before on the Internet
56:07
regarding myself, especially on Smoky Saints channel in the
56:11
past, mainly the idea of Young Earth Creationism being a
56:15
salvation issue. Contrary to what they were
56:19
saying on one of their live streams, the majority of the
56:22
Young Earth Creationist community does not believe that
56:25
Young Earth Creationism is a salvation issue.
56:28
I actually do. And that's because I actually
56:32
believe the premises that AIG teaches that leads you to that
56:37
conclusion. But rather than just lay out
56:40
what all those premises are, I'd rather show you guys this video
56:44
on screen that I did a couple years ago titled Ken Ham
56:48
Responds to Me, uses logical fallacy to justify rejecting
56:53
Young Earth creationism as a salvation issue.
56:57
Now I'm going to hit play and we're going to let it rain.
57:31
Hello. To everyone, if you're watching
57:34
this video, then you are part of the TTOR army, an army that is
57:38
building itself up 1 subscriber at a time.
57:42
And as you can see from the title and thumbnail of today's
57:45
video, today we're talking about Ken Ham.
57:48
And something happened with Ken Ham that I never thought would
57:51
actually happen in all these years of me knowing about him.
57:55
Ken Ham actually talked to me directly via Twitter.
57:59
And funny enough, the topic of discussion was the issue of
58:03
Young Earth creationism being a salvation issue.
58:07
And as you're going to see in today's video, not only does Ken
58:12
Ham deny that Young Earth Creationism is a salvation
58:16
issue, despite the fact that he himself in his own ministry has
58:20
taught all of the premises that lead you to the conclusion that
58:24
young Earth creationism is a salvation issue.
58:27
But the reason that Ken Ham gave for why he rejects Young Earth
58:31
Creationism being a salvation issue, despite teaching all the
58:35
premises in his ministry that lead to that conclusion
58:37
conclusion is one of the worst answers I've ever seen any
58:42
apologist give in the history of the world.
58:45
I kid you not. But how did this conversation
58:49
come about? Well, let's get into that.
58:52
So as you can see here on screen, Ken Ham put out a very
58:57
long Tweets Like a Tweet blog back on May 9th, 2023.
59:03
I'm only going to read the first little bit of it because that's
59:06
the part I responded to on Twitter.
59:09
So Ken Ham says I realized the following statement could easily
59:14
be taken out of context from what I'm about to communicate
59:17
and that some people no doubt will be very upset with me for
59:20
saying it. I believe that what those who
59:24
compromise God's words in Genesis with evolution billion
59:28
or millions of years do is similar in a specific way.
59:32
I'll explain to what cults do to the Bible.
59:35
Now before people get too upset. I recognize those who believe in
59:38
the teaching of a cult cannot be Christians.
59:41
However, salvation in Christ is not conditioned upon believing
59:45
in a young earth and rejecting evolution.
59:48
I recognize there are true Christians who believe in
59:50
millions of years in evolution. Now I do believe they are
59:54
compromising and thus undermining the authority of
59:56
scripture. But I'm not saying they are not
59:58
Christians. Now I took issue with Ken Ham
1:00:02
saying that salvation in Christ is not conditioned upon
1:00:06
believing in a young earth and rejecting evolution.
1:00:09
And here's how I worded it to him.
1:00:12
So in response to Ken Ham, I said.
1:00:15
You yourself and your ministry teach that.
1:00:18
One, the Bible teaches A6000 year old Earth 2 that rejecting
1:00:23
Bible teachings is rejection of biblical authority.
1:00:26
And three, biblical authority is a salvation issue.
1:00:30
If all three things are true, then young Earth creationism is
1:00:35
a salvation issue. Now let's actually unpack that.
1:00:40
As for premise #1A cursory research into the Answers in
1:00:45
Genesis ministry will confirm that Premises 1 is true, at
1:00:50
least so far as that Ken Ham and his ministry teaches that the
1:00:53
Bible teaches A6000 year old urban universe.
1:00:57
And after looking at the data provided by the Bible itself in
1:01:00
Genesis, Exodus and 1st Kings chapter 6 verse one, I myself
1:01:05
verify that Premise 1 is true. So both AIG, Ken Ham and I agree
1:01:10
that Premise 1 is true. But what about premises 2 and
1:01:13
three? Does AIG?
1:01:15
Does Ken Ham really teach them? Well, to prove that they do, I'd
1:01:19
like to turn your attention to this archived Answers in Genesis
1:01:22
article from March 2nd, 2020 called First Tier Question
1:01:27
Question Mark. And I'm going to read some parts
1:01:30
of it and you'll see very clearly that premises 2 and
1:01:33
three are taught by Ken Ham himself, who is the author of
1:01:37
this AIG article. Ken Ham writes in Christian
1:01:42
circles, a system exists developed by theologians that
1:01:46
divides doctrines and other scriptural matters into first
1:01:49
tier, second tier, and 3rd tier levels.
1:01:52
This man made categorization considers first tier issues to
1:01:56
be either essential doctrines or doctrines that are required for
1:02:00
salvation or both. You skip down to the part of the
1:02:04
article that says we believe, and this is what can Ham writes.
1:02:08
Now as we at Answers in Genesis have said many times, the Bible
1:02:11
does not say in Romans 10/9 that if you confess with your mouth
1:02:14
that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised
1:02:17
him from the dead, and believe in a young earth, in six literal
1:02:20
days you will be saved. Indeed, Roman 10-9 states if you
1:02:25
confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in
1:02:27
your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be
1:02:29
saved. Through the years, I have always
1:02:32
emphasized in my teaching that salvation is not conditioned
1:02:34
upon believing in six literal creation days or a young earth.
1:02:38
Nowhere does God's word state you have to believe such things
1:02:41
to be saved. There are Christians who believe
1:02:44
in millions of years and Christians who accept evolution.
1:02:47
If they profess Christ as their Savior, I would not question
1:02:49
their salvation in any way. Does it follow then that the
1:02:53
days of creation, the age of the earth, and whether God used
1:02:55
evolution are not important and thus are not first tier issues?
1:03:00
Now this is the problem with man made systems imposed on
1:03:02
scripture. It's not as simple as the use of
1:03:04
these systems would suggest. So let me ask this instead.
1:03:08
Is biblical authority a first tier issue?
1:03:11
Let's consider the following. Does the Bible state you have to
1:03:14
believe the following to be saved?
1:03:17
Jesus walked on water. Jesus fed thousands as a
1:03:19
miracle. Jesus healed the blind, deaf and
1:03:21
mute. The Israelites shoes and clothes
1:03:24
didn't wear out in the desert Jonah was in was in a fish for
1:03:27
three days. Jesus was born of a virgin.
1:03:30
The list could go on and on. The answer to each question is
1:03:33
no. The Bible doesn't say a person
1:03:35
has to believe those accounts to be saved.
1:03:37
So does that mean the list doesn't matter then?
1:03:39
Of course not, as these accounts are plainly taught in Scripture.
1:03:42
When you take the text as written, is it important to
1:03:44
believe in the list? To reject them is to undermine
1:03:48
biblical authority. It ultimately opens the door to
1:03:51
reject anything in Scripture. Then you skip down to the third
1:03:57
paragraph in the Where's the line section.
1:04:00
And this is what Ken Ham writes. Taking the Bible naturally as
1:04:04
written according to the literature and its context is of
1:04:07
great importance. Biblical authority is indeed a
1:04:11
first order, first tier issue. So let's take this in reverse
1:04:17
order. Ken Ham taught in this article
1:04:21
that biblical authority is a first tier issue.
1:04:25
In other words, biblical authority is a salvation issue.
1:04:31
Ken Ham also clearly teaches that if you reject anything that
1:04:34
the Bible clearly writes or teaches, then you are rejecting
1:04:39
biblical authority. So if you reject Jesus walking
1:04:43
on water or performing miracles or being born of a virgin,
1:04:46
you're rejecting biblical authority.
1:04:49
And this is a salvation issue. And if you look at Ken Ham's AIG
1:04:55
ministry for about 10 minutes, you will figure out very quickly
1:04:58
that they teach that the earth and universe are roughly 6000
1:05:01
years old. And the Bible does teach this.
1:05:04
So this premise is true. But as you have seen in this
1:05:09
article by Ken Ham in 2020 called First Tier, and as you
1:05:13
will see if you do any research into the AI GS ministry, Ken Ham
1:05:18
himself and his ministry teach that one, the Bible teaches
1:05:23
A6000 year old Earth 2 that rejecting Bible teachings is
1:05:27
rejection of biblical authority, and three that biblical
1:05:30
authority is a salvation issue. If you take these three
1:05:35
teachings of Ken Ham and you turn them into premises in a
1:05:40
logic formula, the conclusion that would logically follow from
1:05:45
all three premises being true is that young Earth creationism
1:05:49
would be a salvation issue. So after I pointed these things
1:05:54
out to Ken Ham himself, what did Ken Ham say in response to me?
1:05:59
He said not at all, as people are inconsistent.
1:06:04
So wait a minute Ken, Because people are inconsistent when it
1:06:10
comes to accepting what the Bible clearly teaches on
1:06:13
anything. This means that young Earth
1:06:16
creationism is not a salvation issue, even though the Bible
1:06:19
clearly teaches it. And you yourself say rejecting
1:06:23
anything that the Bible clearly teaches is a salvation issue.
1:06:28
That doesn't add up at all. Ken Ham, your statement here
1:06:32
does not logically follow from the premises that you yourself
1:06:37
as well as your ministry teach. Now, I myself am a young earth
1:06:43
creationist. I believe premise 1 is true, and
1:06:47
I know that premise 2 and 3 is also true.
1:06:51
So I accept the logical conclusion that flows from those
1:06:55
3 premises. And I have determined for years
1:06:58
that Young Earth Creationism is a salvation issue because of the
1:07:03
three premises that Ken Ham himself teaches and me actually
1:07:06
believing them independent of him.
1:07:09
Ken Ham is literally denying the logical conclusion that
1:07:13
logically flows from the premises that he himself teaches
1:07:17
in his ministry, simply because what other people are
1:07:21
inconsistent when it comes to accepting what the Bible says.
1:07:25
Therefore, we can just toss out the idea of Young Earth
1:07:29
Creationism being a salvation issue even though there's no
1:07:33
logical reason to reject that idea.
1:07:36
I responded to Ken Ham by saying just because people are
1:07:40
inconsistent and compromising doesn't change the fact that YEC
1:07:45
being a salvation issue, logically flows from the three
1:07:49
premises that you and your ministry teach.
1:07:52
Just admit it and own it. Ken Ham then said in response to
1:07:58
me that if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe
1:08:02
in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be
1:08:05
saved. Romans 10/9.
1:08:08
So I see what Ken Ham is doing here.
1:08:11
He is using the exact words fallacy to justify rejecting
1:08:16
young earth creationism as a salvation issue.
1:08:20
The first time I came across the exact words fallacy was when I
1:08:24
was watching David Woods Acts 17 apologetics channel years ago
1:08:28
and he was responding to Muslims who claim that well, Jesus can't
1:08:33
be God because he never once in the Bible says the exact words.
1:08:37
I am God, worship me. And even though there's all this
1:08:42
evidence in the Bible, in the New Testament especially, where
1:08:46
Jesus not only says and does the things that only God can say and
1:08:50
do, but Jesus and John 858 literally calls himself Yahweh.
1:08:55
Muslims will reject all of that as evidence for Jesus being God
1:08:59
and say, well, because he doesn't say the exact words, I
1:09:02
am God, worship me. It is wrong to say that Jesus
1:09:06
claimed to be God. We see other people use the
1:09:10
exact words fallacy when they come at Ken Ham and say well
1:09:14
there is no verse in the Bible that specifically says that the
1:09:17
earth is 6000 years old. Therefore it's illogical to
1:09:21
believe that the Bible teaches A6000 year old earth and
1:09:25
universe. Now can Ham would respond to
1:09:28
such a person and say yes it is true that the Bible doesn't have
1:09:32
a verse that says the exact words the earth is 6000 years
1:09:36
old. But when you look at the
1:09:38
genealogies and time spans provided by Genesis, Exodus and
1:09:42
1st Kings chapter 6 verse one which covers the entire time
1:09:46
between the beginning of the earth and universe all the way
1:09:49
to the fourth year of King Solomon's reign.
1:09:51
When you take all that data and you combine it with the time
1:09:55
that has passed since the 4th year of King Solomon's reign,
1:09:58
which was roughly 2900 years ago, well then you come to the
1:10:02
conclusion that the Earth and universe are roughly 6000 years
1:10:06
old. So when someone uses the exact
1:10:09
words fallacy to deny that the Bible teaches A6000 year old
1:10:13
earth and universe, Ken Ham would not for a second allow
1:10:17
that fallacy to stand. He would not allow someone to
1:10:21
say that without responding with the obvious truth.
1:10:25
But yet, when it comes to young Earth creationism being a
1:10:29
salvation issue, Ken Ham is going to use the exact words
1:10:34
fallacy. And he did use the exact words
1:10:36
fallacy to justify rejecting young Earth creationism as a
1:10:41
salvation issue. So according to Can Ham himself,
1:10:46
it doesn't matter that he teaches that the Bible teaches
1:10:49
A6000 year old earth and universe.
1:10:51
It doesn't matter that he teaches that if you reject
1:10:54
anything the Bible clearly teaches you are rejecting
1:10:57
biblical authority. It doesn't matter that Can Ham
1:11:00
teaches that biblical authority is a salvation issue.
1:11:05
It doesn't matter that Young Earth creationism, being a
1:11:08
salvation issue, logically flows as a conclusion from those 3
1:11:12
premises. Nope.
1:11:13
Nope, none of that matters, says Can Ham, because Romans 10/9
1:11:17
does not specifically say you have to believe in a young earth
1:11:20
to be saved. Therefore, Young Earth
1:11:22
Creationism's not a salvation issue.
1:11:27
Ken Ham is literally using the exact words fallacy to justify
1:11:32
saying that Young Earth Creationism is a salvation
1:11:35
issue, despite the fact that he himself teaches all the premises
1:11:40
that lead you to the conclusion that Young Earth Creationism is
1:11:43
a salvation issue. Ken Ham is one of the most
1:11:47
illogical people I have ever come across in my entire time as
1:11:52
a Christian apologist over these last eight years and a few
1:11:56
months. I responded to Ken Ham with this
1:11:59
final tweet. Your refusal to accept the
1:12:03
logical conclusion that follows from your ministry's teachings
1:12:07
regarding a 6000 year old earth and biblical authority proves
1:12:11
that you have compromised on the truth in order to appease men.
1:12:16
Jesus doesn't approve of such behavior and you know it.
1:12:21
And I'm going to stop the video right here because we don't need
1:12:25
to go any further. But Ken Ham not only used a
1:12:30
logical fallacy to justify rejecting young Earth
1:12:34
creationism as a salvation issue, but he also proved that
1:12:38
he is a coward who's only in it for the money.
1:12:42
How do I come to that conclusion?
1:12:44
Well, back in 2017, maybe early 2018, I was in a bunch of
1:12:50
different young Earth creationism groups that were
1:12:52
full of AIG supporters and fans. So I posed a question to all of
1:12:57
them saying, hey, if Ken Ham were to come out tomorrow and
1:13:02
say that young Earth creationism is a salvation issue and he was
1:13:06
wrong for denying that for all these years, would you guys
1:13:09
still support AIG financially? Not too many of those people
1:13:14
responded back to me, but the ones that did, every single one
1:13:19
of them said the same thing. No, we would not support AIG
1:13:25
financially like we currently do if Ken Ham were to do that.
1:13:30
So Ken Ham has to know that. He has to know that not only
1:13:35
will he be ridiculed more if he's points out the obvious
1:13:39
truth based on his own ministry's teachings, that young
1:13:42
Earth creationism is a salvation issue, but he knows that he
1:13:46
stands to lose money from this. He knows that AIG will take a
1:13:51
big hit in their wallet if he states the obvious truth that
1:13:56
flows from his own ministry's teachings.
1:14:00
And so because of that, I am comfortable in saying not only
1:14:04
that he is a coward, and not only that he uses logical
1:14:08
fallacy, the exact words fallacy, to justify rejecting
1:14:12
the idea of young Earth creationism being a salvation
1:14:15
issue, but he is also a grifter. AIG stands a lot to lose
1:14:21
financially from saying the obvious truth about young earth
1:14:25
creationism and salvation based on his own ministry's teachings.
1:14:30
So even though it's logically inconsistent and even though he
1:14:33
has to use a logical fallacy to do it, Ken Ham, he will do it.
1:14:39
He'll go with the logical fallacy even though it makes no
1:14:42
sense in light of his own ministry's teachings.
1:14:45
And he will do it in order to maintain the donors that AIG
1:14:48
gets, which Steven noted earlier on in the live stream I believe
1:14:52
it was, that not only is AIG like the main culprits he
1:14:57
believes behind the conspiracy to blackball Ron Wyatt.
1:15:00
But when it comes to money, AIG is the most financially well off
1:15:06
of all the young Earth creationist ministries in the
1:15:09
movements. And unfortunately, Answers in
1:15:13
Genesis and to a lesser extent, the Kent Hovind movement, I will
1:15:18
guess I'll call it in this stream.
1:15:20
They have been so successful in convincing the world that their
1:15:24
two movements represent all of Young Earth Creationism that
1:15:27
when Young Earth creationist skeptics, the atheists and
1:15:31
evolutionists like Paula Gia and Vice Rhino and Professor Stick
1:15:36
and Sir Sick and the whole lot of them, whenever they attack
1:15:39
Christians and creationists, they always go after AIG and
1:15:44
they always go after the Kent Hovind movement.
1:15:47
Because from all they can tell, that's what all of Young Earth
1:15:51
Creationism is made-up of is these two particular groups.
1:15:56
And in case anyone who's watching this stream from the
1:15:59
outside wondering why I'm even bringing up the Kent Hovind
1:16:02
movement, I'd like to bring up an older video I did back in
1:16:05
2019 where I talked about how a creationism group on a Facebook
1:16:10
alternative called Miwee kicked me out of the group because I
1:16:14
dared to expose Kent Hovind for teaching blatant heresy
1:16:18
regarding repentance being a salvation issue.
1:16:23
And rather than just say what the whole situation was, I'm
1:16:26
going to let this video roll and then I will talk about it.
1:16:30
Where political incorrectness meets Christian apologetics,
1:16:35
this is truth, the objective reality.
1:16:43
Hello there everybody. While I myself have personally
1:16:48
experienced some of the Silicon Valley Big Tech censorship going
1:16:52
on when I was shadow banned and censored by Twitter, there is
1:16:56
another group out there that is every bit as censorious as
1:16:59
Silicon Valley is. And that group is the cultish
1:17:03
groups within the Young Earth Creationism movement,
1:17:06
specifically the Answers in Genesis, Ken Ham group, and the
1:17:12
Kent Hovind group, who I call the Hovindites.
1:17:15
Recently I was actually kicked out of the creationism group on
1:17:20
Meiway, which is a Facebook alternative because this group
1:17:25
was run by Hovindites and I made the foolish mistake of sharing
1:17:30
my recent video. Kent Hovind teaches that
1:17:33
repentance is not part of salvation in that group.
1:17:37
The reason why I shared this video in the Creationism group
1:17:41
on Mayway is because I wanted other young Earth creationists
1:17:45
to be aware that Kent Hovind, a guy who to many is one of the
1:17:49
major faces of the Young Earth Creationism movement.
1:17:53
I wanted them to be aware that Kent Hovind was a heretic
1:17:56
because he teaches that repentance is not part of
1:17:59
salvation. And in my video, I showed a clip
1:18:03
from my 2015 video where I showed Kent Hovind teaching that
1:18:09
repentance is not part of salvation and that it's a work
1:18:13
that man does after he's saved, which literally contradicts what
1:18:17
the Bible says. And so I shared this video in
1:18:21
the Creationism group on Meiway and they had a real problem with
1:18:26
me daring to criticize Kent Hovind.
1:18:30
One person pointed out that they were not OK with me sharing my
1:18:35
videos and promoting my channel in the Creationism group and I
1:18:40
thought that was hilarious because every time I make a
1:18:43
young earth creationism or creationism related video I
1:18:47
always shared it in this creationism group on Mei way.
1:18:51
And never once did anybody ever say we have a problem with you
1:18:56
sharing your videos and promoting your channel here in
1:18:59
the group. It's only when I dared to
1:19:02
criticize the sacred cow of Kent Hovind that suddenly these
1:19:06
people have a problem with me sharing my videos and promoting
1:19:10
my channel to other young earth creationists and the creationism
1:19:15
group on Meiway. Funny how that?
1:19:17
Works. There was another individual in
1:19:21
this group that claimed that because I did not try to
1:19:25
personally contact Kent Hovind in private behind the scenes to
1:19:30
talk with him about this and that I instead responded
1:19:33
publicly to his public teaching that repentance is not part of
1:19:38
salvation. This person claimed that I was
1:19:41
the heretic and not Kent Hovind. I don't know what kind of looney
1:19:45
tune land this individual lives in, but me not contacting
1:19:51
someone in private to discuss some heretical teaching that
1:19:56
they publicly teach does not constitute heresy.
1:20:01
You may think it's rude of me to do that, but it's not a heresy.
1:20:06
There's nothing in the Bible to even suggest that that kind of
1:20:09
behavior is a heresy. So for that person to claim I'm
1:20:13
a heretic because I didn't try to contact Kent Hovind in
1:20:17
private before I recorded and published that video shows just
1:20:22
how nuts he is. There were other people who
1:20:25
pointed out in the group that said Oh well.
1:20:28
Kent Hovind has said at other times that repentance is part of
1:20:32
salvation, and on his website he says that it is.
1:20:37
Well, The funny thing about websites is that a lot of
1:20:39
heretical churches and teachers actually don't advertise their
1:20:43
heresies on their website. In some instances, like with
1:20:48
Brian Denlinger, they have things on their website that
1:20:52
completely contradict what their teachings teachings are and they
1:20:56
actually let that stand for a long period of time before they
1:20:59
actually change the website to reflect what they actually
1:21:01
teach. The other thing that is worth
1:21:04
noting is that Kent Hovind is the kind of person who will
1:21:08
literally say anything to anyone in order to get out of any
1:21:12
Pickles or buy insurance that he puts himself.
1:21:14
In. So I'm not surprised that he
1:21:18
would publicly teach that repentance is not part of
1:21:21
salvation in one instance, and then in other instances he would
1:21:26
say, Oh no, no, no, no, it is part of salvation.
1:21:28
Of course, nobody actually gave me a link to prove that Kent
1:21:33
Hovind has taught that repentance is part of salvation
1:21:37
more recently. So I'm not exactly going to
1:21:40
believe that he actually does teach that repentance is part of
1:21:45
salvation, especially when I showed him on video teaching the
1:21:50
contrary. But I want people to see the
1:21:53
clip again because when you see what Kent Hovind said, there's
1:21:57
no way he believes that repentance is part of salvation.
1:22:02
And This is why I wish I had the original video that I got the
1:22:05
clip from. In the original video that Kent
1:22:09
Hovind was doing with Lone Star 1776, the host of the show Lone
1:22:14
Star literally asked Kent Hovind point blank, is repentance part
1:22:19
of salvation or not? And in the clip I showed of that
1:22:23
video, I showed the entire response that Kent Hovind gave
1:22:28
to the question of whether or not repentance was a salvation
1:22:32
issue or not. And this is what Kent Hovind
1:22:35
said as soon as Lone Star was done asking the question.
1:22:41
My first question would be, if repentance or baptism, either
1:22:45
one, is part of salvation, why isn't it in every verse dealing
1:22:51
with salvation it would seem. Wrong.
1:22:53
For it not to. Be in every single verse if it
1:22:56
is indeed part. That's right.
1:23:01
If Kent Hovind really believes that repentance is part of
1:23:05
salvation, that would have been the perfect time to say, of
1:23:09
course repentance is part of salvation.
1:23:11
Lone Star Kent Hovind also could have said, well, Acts 1118 and
1:23:17
2nd Corinthians 710 say that repentance leads to salvation.
1:23:21
So clearly repentance is part of salvation.
1:23:25
If Kent Hovind was the Bible answer man that you people think
1:23:28
that he is, he would have said the second answer.
1:23:32
But Kat Hoeven didn't say any of that.
1:23:34
What did he say instead? Well, if repentance is part of
1:23:38
salvation, then how come it's not in every single verse
1:23:42
dealing with salvation? It would seem to me that if it
1:23:46
was, it would be mentioned in every single verse dealing with
1:23:49
salvation. Kent Hovind's question is
1:23:54
exactly the kind of question you would ask if you do not believe
1:23:58
that repentance is part of salvation.
1:24:01
And by saying what he said immediately after Lone Star 1776
1:24:07
asked Kent Hovind if repentance was part of salvation or not,
1:24:11
Kent Hovind is clearly showing that he does not believe that
1:24:15
repentance is part of salvation. I told you guys before that Kent
1:24:20
Hovind ran a cult out of Alabama, and the fact that his
1:24:24
followers kicked me out of the creationism group on Meiwei for
1:24:28
daring to criticize Kent Hovind proves me exactly right.
1:24:33
It doesn't matter that my criticism of him was legitimate.
1:24:36
No, I dared to criticize the sacred cow, their God Kent
1:24:41
Hovind, and so I had to go. I couldn't be allowed to be in
1:24:45
the group anymore. Even though they had no problem
1:24:48
with me being in the group prior to this.
1:24:50
Even though they had no problem with me sharing my video and
1:24:53
promoting my channel in the group prior to me sharing my
1:24:57
video criticizing Kent Hovind for teaching heresy.
1:25:02
But this is not the only time that I have been censored by
1:25:06
young earth creationists on the Internet.
1:25:09
Back in February of 2018, I uploaded a video to YouTube as
1:25:14
well as bit Shoot titled Ken Ham Compromises on Young Earth
1:25:18
Creationism Being Part of Salvation.
1:25:21
Back when I shared this video on the Internet, I was on Facebook
1:25:26
and I was in two really large young earth creationism groups
1:25:29
where I was sharing my videos and I shared this video and
1:25:33
those two groups and they kicked me out as well.
1:25:37
What happened was, is that I was visiting my cousins and family
1:25:41
out of town back when I uploaded this video.
1:25:46
And so after I uploaded this video and shared it in all the
1:25:49
Facebook groups I was in, including the two I got kicked
1:25:51
out of, I put my computer down and I went on to do something
1:25:56
fun with my cousins. I think we were either playing
1:25:59
video games or we were watching a movie or something.
1:26:03
But the point is, is that I was away from my devices and I was
1:26:07
busy having family time after I'd shared my video.
1:26:11
And so after I shared my video and I came back later, I noticed
1:26:15
that I had hundreds of views on my video almost straight away
1:26:20
and that my notification box on Facebook was blowing up.
1:26:25
I was getting all kinds of comments from people who had a
1:26:28
problem with me criticizing Ken Ham for saying that repentance
1:26:33
is not part of salvation. This criticism of Ken Ham is
1:26:37
legitimate because old earth creationists like James McGrath
1:26:41
point out that, well, if the Bible really teaches A6000 year
1:26:46
old earth and universe, and if billions of years in evolution
1:26:50
is really the foundation of everything that is morally and
1:26:54
spiritually wrong with the world today.
1:26:57
And if evolution in billions of years destroys the foundation of
1:27:01
the gospel, then obviously by implication young of creationism
1:27:06
has to be a salvation issue. And of course older of
1:27:09
creationists are right when they say that.
1:27:11
But as a younger of creationist, if you say yeah, you're right,
1:27:15
they'll call you a bigot for saying that.
1:27:18
But if you refuse to say that Young Earth Creationism is a
1:27:22
salvation issue, despite believing those things that Old
1:27:26
Earth Creationists point out, well, then you're not being
1:27:29
honest as a Young Earth creationist.
1:27:32
So if you're a Young Earth Creationist, you're damned if
1:27:35
you do say that Young Earth Creationism is a salvation
1:27:38
issue, and you're damned if you don't say that Young Earth
1:27:41
Creationism is a salvation issue.
1:27:44
Literally, if you're a Young Earth Creationist, you're damned
1:27:47
if you do and damned if you don't.
1:27:49
You're just damned no matter what if you're a Young Earth
1:27:52
Creationist. And so when I criticized Ken Ham
1:27:58
for not accepting young Earth creationism being a salvation
1:28:03
issue, I was being bombarded with comments and questions by
1:28:07
people, and they were demanding that I respond immediately.
1:28:11
And so I noticed I had like 60 of these things just lined up in
1:28:14
a row. And so I started to respond to a
1:28:17
couple of them as soon as I started reading through the
1:28:20
comments and questions people were saying.
1:28:23
And right as I was starting to respond to the boatload of
1:28:26
questions that people were demanding I respond to, I
1:28:30
suddenly lose access to the group because I had been kicked
1:28:33
out of that group. And then the same thing happened
1:28:36
in another group that I was in. So because I dared to criticize
1:28:41
Ken Ham, I was bombarded with questions that I was expected to
1:28:45
somehow know was being asked of me immediately, even though I
1:28:49
was spending time with my family.
1:28:51
And because I dared to not respond immediately to their
1:28:55
questions to me on Facebook instead of spending time with my
1:28:59
family, well, then I just had to go.
1:29:02
So clearly there are two different cult groups operating
1:29:07
in the Young Earth creationism movement.
1:29:09
One cult group is headed by Kent Hovind, who literally runs a
1:29:13
cult out of his compound in Alabama.
1:29:17
And the other cult group, which is a much bigger group is the
1:29:19
Answers in Genesis Ken Ham group.
1:29:22
Where Ken Ham is a cult leader is less obvious than Kent
1:29:25
Hovind, but his followers, especially on Facebook, act
1:29:30
every bit the part of being cultists.
1:29:33
And so notice how in the last two years, my fellow Young Earth
1:29:37
creationists kicked me out of groups because I dared to
1:29:41
criticize Ken Ham and Kent Hovind, because I dared to
1:29:46
dissent from the group think that Ken Ham and Kent Hovind
1:29:50
dish out. And because I dared to OfferUp
1:29:53
legitimate criticism of those two people, Young Earth
1:29:57
creationists running the groups I was in on Facebook.
1:30:00
And Meiwei decided that I just could not be allowed to be in
1:30:04
the groups and be with other Young Earth creationists in the
1:30:07
group. I had to go.
1:30:09
I just could not be allowed to criticize Ken Ham and Kent
1:30:13
Hovind, even though my criticism of them is legitimate.
1:30:18
Unfortunately, these cultish groups in the Young Earth
1:30:21
Creationism movement are so large that Old Earth
1:30:25
creationists, evolutionists, atheists, and even other Young
1:30:29
Earth creationists think that these groups represent the
1:30:33
entire Young Earth Creationism movement.
1:30:36
I don't know how these cult groups took over the Young Earth
1:30:39
Creationism movement, but this has got to stop.
1:30:43
We cannot allow crazy cult groups like the Ken Ham AIG
1:30:48
group and the Kent Hoven group to run the young Earth
1:30:51
creationism movement. We cannot allow them to run the
1:30:56
young Earth creationism movement because what's happening as a
1:30:59
result of that is that people on the outside, old Earth
1:31:03
creationists, evolutionists, atheists, and even other young
1:31:08
Earth creationists, they think that these cult groups represent
1:31:12
young Earth creationism. And so when they see these
1:31:16
groups, led by Kent Hovind and Ken Ham, behaving exactly like a
1:31:20
cult, they conclude that Young Earth creationism is a cult,
1:31:25
which is why you get articles from people like James McGrath
1:31:28
and Greg Nieman saying exactly that.
1:31:32
We need to gradually, if not immediately, expel these cult
1:31:38
groups from the Young Earth creationism movement.
1:31:41
What the Young Earth creationism movement needs is less
1:31:44
groupthink and less of a hive mind.
1:31:47
And we need more rugged individualism and a willingness
1:31:51
to stand not only on what the Bible says, but also the
1:31:54
implications of what it says. And if we're going to stand on
1:31:59
the implications of the Bible's teachings and recordings, then
1:32:03
we have to stand on young Earth creationism being a salvation
1:32:08
issue. If we're going to call ourselves
1:32:10
young Earth creationists, to do otherwise is very dishonest, and
1:32:19
I will cut it off there. And I know there's a lot that
1:32:22
can be said in response to this second video in particular,
1:32:26
because back in 2019, I didn't understand the concept of a cult
1:32:30
of personality as much as I do now.
1:32:34
So to call Kent Hovind's group and to call AIG cults is a
1:32:41
little bit inaccurate because the more accurate way to put it
1:32:45
is that there are cults of personality surrounding Kent
1:32:49
Hovind, surrounding Kent Ham. And we know that this is true
1:32:54
because the way that their movements work is very similar
1:32:58
to the cult of personality that surrounds Donald Trump, even
1:33:02
though Donald Trump himself doesn't do that much to
1:33:06
encourage the kind of cult of personality that is around him.
1:33:10
That cult of personality is strong.
1:33:12
It exists, and they are fanatics.
1:33:16
And it's the same thing with AIG and the Kent Hovan movement, to
1:33:20
a lesser degree. Kent Hovind himself, you could
1:33:23
make the argument, did not encourage the creation of this
1:33:27
cult of personality around him. But the fact of the matter, as I
1:33:30
showed in this video, is that that group exists.
1:33:34
There are a lot, and I mean a lot of Kent Hovind supporters on
1:33:39
the Internet who run creationism groups that if you dare to
1:33:43
criticize Kent Hovind, you're out of there.
1:33:46
Regardless of whether or not Kent Hovind's actually guilty of
1:33:49
some kind of heresy or some kind of error in his teaching or
1:33:53
something else that you can legitimately criticize Kent
1:33:57
Hovind for doing. And it's the same thing with
1:34:00
Answers in Genesis. You criticize Ken Ham in any
1:34:03
way, shape or form, and suddenly you're not allowed to be part of
1:34:06
the group, even though you're a younger creationist, even though
1:34:09
your criticism is valid. So yes, I stand by what I said
1:34:14
there at the end. Cultish cults of personality
1:34:19
need to be jettisoned from the young Earth creationism
1:34:21
movement. If we had jettisoned these
1:34:24
cultish personalities, cults of personalities from our movement
1:34:28
decades ago, what happened to Ron Wyatt may never have
1:34:32
happened. Ron Wyatt's work may be
1:34:34
mainstream young Earth creationism at this point if it
1:34:38
wasn't for these cults of personalities gatekeeping
1:34:41
everything. That's my honest thoughts after
1:34:44
thinking about everything I've went through is documented in
1:34:47
these videos and thinking about all the videos and the posts
1:34:52
that Steven has made with Proverbs Guys Ministries talking
1:34:55
about how AIG blackballed Ron Wyatt.
1:34:59
So I think when you look at everything in its totality,
1:35:03
there's definitely gatekeepers in the younger creationism
1:35:07
movement. Some are deliberate, like
1:35:08
Answers in Genesis. Some are maybe not so
1:35:12
deliberate, at least when it started happening with the case
1:35:16
of the Kent Hovind movement. But the fact of the matter is
1:35:19
that these two groups exist. Those are the gatekeepers of the
1:35:25
YEC movement. If I had to give you a real life
1:35:28
parallel to what these people groups are like, AIG would fall
1:35:32
closely to the Democrat side and the Kent Hovind movement would
1:35:39
start would more align with the GOP side.
1:35:44
I would say the AIG side is probably more sinister and more
1:35:48
purposeful than the Kent Hovind movement when it comes to
1:35:52
gatekeeping younger creationism. But the other group does exist
1:35:57
and the members of that group, like the low tier brown shirts,
1:36:01
I guess I'll call them, not necessarily Kent Hovind and his
1:36:04
ministry is brown shirts at the bottom.
1:36:07
They gatekeep a lot on the local Facebook, local social media
1:36:12
level. So when it comes to dealing with
1:36:15
that kind of gatekeeping, it's going to take a lot for
1:36:19
creationists to solve that problem, primarily because it's
1:36:24
been going on for so long. I mean, as Steven noted, you
1:36:28
know, Ron Wyatt's work has been out there for 30 years.
1:36:31
Creationist ministries existed back then.
1:36:33
They still exist now, and they've been gatekeeping the
1:36:37
whole time. All our lives.
1:36:41
They have been gatekeeping even before I was born.
1:36:44
The creationist ministries that existed have been gatekeeping
1:36:48
the younger of creationism movement, which is the same
1:36:52
temptation that fell upon Jesus's disciples in the New
1:36:56
Testament, that fell on the Jews when they went to the mountain
1:37:01
with Moses and Aaron to do the whole covenant thing and God's
1:37:05
Spirit was poured out on them. There were people who were not
1:37:09
in that circle who also had the Spirit poured on them at the
1:37:12
same time that we're starting to do miracles and do all these
1:37:16
great things that the Lord wanted them to do.
1:37:18
And in the time of Moses, the crowd tried to stop them, but
1:37:22
Aaron and Moses said, no, don't try to stop them because they're
1:37:26
doing what God wants them to do. And there's no way watching what
1:37:31
they're doing that they're going to turn around and, you know,
1:37:33
backstab us essentially. And the same thing happened with
1:37:36
Jesus and his disciples. There were some people who the
1:37:39
Spirit of God fell upon and they were baptizing people and
1:37:42
casting out demons in Jesus name.
1:37:44
And because they weren't one of the 12 disciples, the disciples
1:37:47
tried to get those people to stop.
1:37:50
And Jesus told them no, do not stop what they're doing because
1:37:54
there's no way they're going to backstab me essentially.
1:37:57
They're not going to in one breath do this and then the next
1:38:01
breath cursed me, I think, is what he said.
1:38:04
So when it comes to gatekeeping, the best way to deal with it is
1:38:09
we got to be, like I said in that old video from six years
1:38:12
ago, we got to be rugged individuals.
1:38:15
We got to be independent free thinkers who actually look at
1:38:18
evidence. But then instead of being
1:38:21
cowards and rejecting that evidence, we have to be brave
1:38:24
and we have to accept the evidence, whatever it is.
1:38:27
Because I'm sure Steven agrees with me on this, but I am
1:38:32
confident 110% and I'm exaggerating on purpose.
1:38:36
I am 110% confident that any evidence we have yet to find in
1:38:42
reality, it will support younger creationism and Christianity
1:38:46
more than it will support any kind of atheistic evolution or
1:38:51
any kind of atheistic cosmology or any kind of concept of deep
1:38:56
time. I am 110% confident of that and
1:39:00
so. It may very.
1:39:02
Well be that Ron Wyatt's work is totally legitimate and that he
1:39:05
has been blackballed by the younger creationist community as
1:39:09
well as the world for, you know, all the time that has passed
1:39:12
since then when he was alive and since he passed on.
1:39:15
That is entirely possible. I don't say that he's 100% right
1:39:20
in his work because I've never actually examined it, so I don't
1:39:24
want to be that bold about something I haven't personally
1:39:27
examined. But the idea of it, the idea
1:39:30
that his work was valid and that it's 100% accurate and that the
1:39:35
creationist blackballed him because he didn't fit into their
1:39:38
little system of control, their little narratives.
1:39:42
I can completely believe that based off of my lived
1:39:45
experiences, as I showed in a couple of these videos.
1:39:49
So I think when it comes to power structures in the young
1:39:53
Earth creationism movements, the gatekeepers in particular, it's
1:39:57
going to take a really long time because they're so deeply rooted
1:40:00
at this point that we have got to get the group think and the
1:40:04
cults of personality out of the YEC movement so that we no
1:40:08
longer have the problem of people like Ron Wyatt being
1:40:12
gatekeeped and prevented from being mainstream within his own
1:40:16
movement because of them. That's something I would love to
1:40:20
work against. Would you mind if I respond?
1:40:26
Sure. OK, as far as Ken Ham goes, from
1:40:31
the information I've looked up ever since 2014, most people are
1:40:36
convinced he was absolutely crushed by Bill Nye, which is
1:40:39
embarrassing because Bill Nye is an idiot.
1:40:42
Ken Ham was. This is what people believe.
1:40:46
So his according to the information, all challenges that
1:40:51
people have made to debate him have failed because he declines
1:40:56
or makes up some kind of excuse why he won't do anything.
1:40:59
So there's a lot of people that don't take Ken Hammer seriously
1:41:02
nowadays. However, I would challenge UTTOR
1:41:08
to contact him or have Proverbs do it, or even I can attempt to
1:41:13
do it and get you into a debate with them.
1:41:15
If you really think that these guys are scumbags who are
1:41:18
profiting off of Christianity and being gatekeepers, well, who
1:41:23
better to prove that by having Ken Ham actually come into a
1:41:27
room with you and you basically, you know, give them the God
1:41:31
treatment. As far as Kent Hovind, Proverbs
1:41:34
is actually associated with Kent Hovind.
1:41:37
If you really feel that Kent Hovind is wrong and that he has
1:41:40
said some things. And by the way, I think I found
1:41:43
the original video you were looking for.
1:41:45
It's called You are saved. I think I got some links here
1:41:49
I'll give you later. The third thing is, if you know
1:41:53
that there's a lot of gatekeepers and young Earth
1:41:57
creationism and the creationism account, if you're absolutely
1:42:01
convinced, which it does sound like you're very passionate
1:42:04
about, that they have been giving out false information or
1:42:07
blocking information, all that, then you know that you got a lot
1:42:11
of information from some of these folks yourself.
1:42:14
So how do you know what you believe is true?
1:42:17
It's a valid question. In terms of my creationism
1:42:22
beliefs. Right, because you obviously had
1:42:26
to do research and study. How do you know who's telling
1:42:29
you the actual truth and who's playing games with you?
1:42:34
Well, the reason why I'm a young Earth creationist is because
1:42:38
when I finally studied the issue of young Earth creationism for
1:42:42
myself back in 2014, I actually looked at what AIG articles were
1:42:50
saying as far as why they believe that the Bible teaches
1:42:54
A6000 year old earth and universe.
1:42:56
They gave the verses and I looked up the verses and then I
1:43:00
looked up the context around the passages they were saying just
1:43:04
to make sure that they were not twisting things, whether
1:43:07
intentionally or not. Like I wanted to be sure that
1:43:10
the context around those passages in the context of the.
1:43:13
Book as a whole. In the context of the Bible as a
1:43:16
whole supported through what they were saying, those verses
1:43:19
said, and so I discovered that they were.
1:43:23
And so because it's in the Bible, I don't need to take AI
1:43:27
GS word for it. The only reason I was an older
1:43:30
of creation. The only reason I was an older
1:43:33
of creationist for so long, which was like from 2012 through
1:43:38
2014, that's when I started gay into apologetics.
1:43:43
I had never actually studied the issue.
1:43:46
My rejection of young earth creationism was based on an
1:43:49
ignorance of never having actually read their source
1:43:52
material. And so once I did and I realized
1:43:55
that as far as the Bible goes, they actually are correct and
1:43:59
they actually apply the rules of hermeneutics and interpretation
1:44:03
and language to the Bible. And I found that the older of
1:44:06
creationist apologist I was following at the time were
1:44:09
actually setting those rules aside despite preaching them.
1:44:12
That's why I ultimately made that conversion from old to
1:44:15
younger of creationism back then.
1:44:18
And over time, yes, it's rolled into a lot of things, but I, I
1:44:23
know a lot of people do not like that I say that younger of
1:44:27
creationism is a salvation issue.
1:44:29
But the logical premises that lead to that conclusion, not
1:44:33
only do I believe those premises, but those parentheses
1:44:37
are literally laid out by the gatekeepers.
1:44:41
The gatekeepers themselves say the things that lead you to that
1:44:44
conclusion, but then deny the conclusion, which is really SUS
1:44:48
as some young people like to say.
1:44:50
So I, I can't get behind that. I can't get behind denying the
1:44:56
obvious conclusion that comes from the things that the Bible
1:45:00
teaches and the things that are obviously true that are not
1:45:04
necessarily found in the Bible, you know, things that are
1:45:07
logically true. So that's kind of where I come
1:45:11
from in regards to that issue. But like I think I've said in
1:45:15
past videos, even though I teach that young Earth creationism is
1:45:19
a salvation issue, it is not on the same tiers like the
1:45:23
unforgivable sin. Young Earth creationism and its
1:45:27
truthfulness, once you've been made aware of it, is something
1:45:31
that you could struggle to accept.
1:45:33
Because there's a lot of people out there who would struggle to
1:45:36
accept young Earth creationism being true because of a wide
1:45:40
variety of reasons, whether it's potential ridicule or they think
1:45:44
that people will see them as being really dumb or they think
1:45:48
that there will be some kind of detriment to their lives that
1:45:53
come with it. Like as outlined in the
1:45:56
Slaughter the Dissident series, people lost their academic
1:45:59
careers, people lost their educations that they were trying
1:46:02
to get. People lost everything they were
1:46:05
trying to get in some cases merely because they espoused
1:46:09
belief in creationism and then went into an academic setting
1:46:14
holding those beliefs. So that kind of the thing has
1:46:19
been going on for a long time. And that's one of the many
1:46:22
reasons why it can be hard for some Christians to accept
1:46:26
creationism. Hell, there's a lot of people
1:46:28
out there who come out as Christians or creationists when
1:46:33
they're really old and their academic 10 years are no longer
1:46:36
on the line. There's lots of testimonies of
1:46:38
people who are like, yeah, I believe in creationism now.
1:46:42
I'm a Christian now, and when I was a tenured professor at my
1:46:45
college, I kind of knew evolution was SUS.
1:46:48
But I, I knew if I said anything, I was going to get
1:46:51
blackballed and kicked out. So I just kept my mouth shut
1:46:54
until I was out, and then I let my real flops come out.
1:46:59
That's happened to a lot of people over time.
1:47:02
And so, yeah, that's just one of many reasons why someone would
1:47:05
be slow to accept young Earth creationism as being true, even
1:47:09
if they are someone who values what the Bible says.
1:47:14
So it's a complicated issue. There's a lot of grappling with
1:47:18
reality and with the things you believe when it comes to that
1:47:22
kind of struggle. So if someone is exposed to
1:47:26
anything I've said tonight as far as the truthfulness of young
1:47:29
earth creationism or anything I've said in other videos, and
1:47:34
they now know what the Bible says on those things, they have
1:47:39
to go deal with that themselves. You know, some people may end up
1:47:43
rejecting it anyway. Other people may end up
1:47:46
accepting it, but it takes them a long time to come to that
1:47:49
term. And I can't control any of that.
1:47:53
All I can do is put out that information, make the logical
1:47:56
implications obvious, because to me they're obvious.
1:48:01
I don't know about to other people, but to me they're
1:48:03
obvious. And so even though I teach that
1:48:06
young Earth creationism is a salvation issue, and a lot of
1:48:10
people are upset by that, I let them work it out in their own
1:48:14
space and time because that's what you do with anything else
1:48:17
that someone believes that's heretical in relation to the
1:48:21
Bible. You let them work it out in
1:48:24
their own time and way. Because if they do have a
1:48:27
personal saving relationship with God, I believe that they
1:48:31
will eventually work it out in their own time, in their own
1:48:34
way, and in a way that God is behind it.
1:48:38
So I'm not, I'm not the fire and brimstone kind of guy who says
1:48:44
the honor of creationism is a salvation issue.
1:48:47
It's more nuanced for me. And that just comes from looking
1:48:51
at the Bible as a whole, accepting its teachings,
1:48:55
accepting the logical implications that come from
1:48:57
those teachings, and just standing firm on it because it's
1:49:01
the Word of God you're supposed to do.
1:49:05
Right. And I think that you would be
1:49:08
effective if you were to actually have a one-on-one with
1:49:12
Ken Ham, Kent Hovind before they go into a mental cognitive
1:49:19
decline. Have them actually come in
1:49:22
one-on-one and discuss your views and why you think the way
1:49:25
you think. And they give their explanations
1:49:29
for it. If you really, really want to
1:49:31
see a corruption, I mean if you really believe they're doing it
1:49:34
for profit and to lead people astray, tickle ears in order to
1:49:39
keep their organizations and stack, the best way to handle it
1:49:43
is you. I don't know anybody else out
1:49:45
there who would be interested in even doing that besides atheist.
1:49:50
But you know what'll happen if an atheist were to get take get
1:49:54
an advantage over them in a discussion?
1:49:57
They'll just simply say, well, they're atheists, they're blind,
1:49:59
they don't have the Holy Spirit, they can't possibly understand
1:50:03
the mysteries of God. But if a person that's in their
1:50:07
ballpark gets into a discussion with them, well, I just think
1:50:12
about the ramifications, is what I'm saying.
1:50:16
Yeah, I get that. And that makes a lot of sense.
1:50:18
And as I think about that, that would be cool to actually have a
1:50:25
one-on-one interaction with Ken Ham that's not through a Twitter
1:50:28
account and actually make him explain himself as to why young
1:50:33
Earth creationism is not a salvation issue, even though his
1:50:36
ministry and he himself teaches all the premises that lead to
1:50:40
that conclusion. That would be a really cool and
1:50:43
interesting thing to see. No matter how that turns out,
1:50:47
The only problem I see with it is not my willingness lacking,
1:50:52
because I'm all for that. I just don't think I could see
1:50:55
Ken Ham basically stooping himself down to our level, to
1:51:00
put it another way. Well if he's a true Christian
1:51:03
who cares about our souls and wants to sow seed then he would
1:51:07
take the opportunity if he fails to any declines and I will see
1:51:12
him as a spineless coward who only does it for profit.
1:51:15
He went either way. So how about I go out of my way
1:51:19
to try to get in contact with him.
1:51:21
I'm pretty good at making connections like this.
1:51:24
I'll see if I can get him to do it and if he says yes I will
1:51:27
give you day and time later on if this is possible.
1:51:31
As far as Beethoven, I understand that you don't like
1:51:34
him personally because he's kind of a, well, I, I don't want to
1:51:38
say something horrible, but he's, he's not the most unflawed
1:51:42
human being in the world, but he would probably get into a
1:51:46
discussion with you if Proverbs were to set it up, if that's
1:51:49
something you're interested in when it comes to young Earth
1:51:52
creationism. Yeah, I I'd think about that.
1:51:57
I'd be more interested in the Ken Ham one because I think
1:52:00
you'll be the harder 1 to get. But yeah, I, I get what you're
1:52:05
saying. If you're going to reach out to
1:52:07
AIG though, for that you'll want to do it through their website.
1:52:12
All right, I'll look through their contacts, see what I can
1:52:14
find. I'll also talk to the AI and AI
1:52:18
will give me every bit of information I could possibly ask
1:52:21
for and I will do my best to get through to him.
1:52:24
I almost had Ray Comfort come on the show a while back.
1:52:27
I should probably try to see if that is possible.
1:52:31
How do you feel about Ray Comfort?
1:52:34
I mean, he's a decent Christian, like preacher, teacher.
1:52:40
He does have kind of, well, I don't know if it's changed
1:52:43
because it's been a few years since I've even looked at his
1:52:45
ministry, But in the past he had a real issue with undervaluing
1:52:51
how important apologetics were in relation to clearing the path
1:52:56
for people to hear and accept the gospel.
1:53:00
So that is something I have an issue with him on.
1:53:03
But like he doesn't to my knowledge hold any kind of weird
1:53:07
wazoo heretical beliefs relation to the Bible so I I I don't have
1:53:14
a negative opinion on him really.
1:53:17
Well, you need to realize TTR that if you don't deal have your
1:53:21
debate or discussion with Ken Ham and Ken Tobin, they're going
1:53:26
to end. They're older men.
1:53:27
They're not long for this world. And if you leave it be and just
1:53:31
walk away, their legacy will continue and it will just bring
1:53:36
more people into what you are convinced as a false witness or
1:53:40
false teaching. You don't want that.
1:53:43
So let's do the best we can to get this set up for you.
1:53:46
All right, I understand you look at these men as a filthy
1:53:49
sinners, heresies all this, but how are you ever able to expose
1:53:53
things if you don't have that polite open discussion with
1:53:57
them? I understand that's something
1:54:02
we'll work on later. For now, nice one, Dan.
1:54:10
That's a really nice one. Criticisms are valid.
1:54:13
Dan. If you watch the stream, you saw
1:54:17
Ken Ham in the past when talking directly to me, use a logical
1:54:23
fallacy to try to prove his case that younger of creationism was
1:54:28
not a salvation issue. You should know, and I know
1:54:33
that's not valid. And you also saw a video of Kent
1:54:38
Hovind himself, at least as far back as around a decade ago,
1:54:43
teaching that repentance was not part of salvation.
1:54:47
And if you go watch the original video that that is from, you
1:54:51
will know that he went into further detail on why it wasn't
1:54:56
and that if you actually go through the scriptures, you'd
1:54:58
immediately know why that position he taught back then was
1:55:02
wrong. This was around the time where
1:55:04
he was about to be let go from prison.
1:55:06
Because if you watch the full clip from that old video of
1:55:08
mine, you'll hear the prison message that plays like halfway
1:55:12
through this call to let you know what the time limit is.
1:55:16
So yeah, that is something that is legitimate.
1:55:21
That's a legitimate criticism of Kent Hovind.
1:55:25
Now, if you can prove that Kent Hovind has publicly changed his
1:55:28
position since then, I'm all for it and I would take that away as
1:55:33
far as a criticism of Kent Hovind.
1:55:37
Yeah, I don't consider anything that you've said on this show as
1:55:41
an attack, and I don't see why you would either, Dan.
1:55:44
This is simply a matter where one man says, hey, I don't agree
1:55:48
with your biblical views on this or your theological position and
1:55:53
want to talk about it. Dtor has never got in there and
1:55:57
yelled and screamed and called names or cursed somebody out.
1:56:01
He's just simply wanting to get to the bottom of this and if
1:56:04
these people are doing this intentionally, then it needs to
1:56:07
be exposed. And I think I said this right
1:56:10
after I showed that video, but the thing about why I chose to
1:56:16
show that video is I wanted to show specific real world
1:56:20
evidence that I personally lived through that shows that there is
1:56:24
a geek gatekeeper elements to the young Earth creationism
1:56:27
movement. If you criticize Kent Hovind, no
1:56:31
matter how valid your criticism is, you're not allowed to
1:56:34
associate with them on Facebook or me.
1:56:37
We if you write you greatly criticize Kent Ham for
1:56:41
something, well, suddenly you're a bad person and you just can't
1:56:46
be allowed to be in our group. That's cultish behavior.
1:56:50
That is a hive mind group. Think.
1:56:53
Whether or not that groupthink and that hivemind was originated
1:56:58
by Ken Hammond, Kent Hovind specifically or not, that
1:57:02
groupthink still exists on the Internet in large numbers in the
1:57:08
young Earth creationism movement.
1:57:11
That groupthink exists. It's the elephant in the room.
1:57:15
It's staring at you, Dan. It happens.
1:57:19
And that was the point of me showing the videos, that simply
1:57:22
criticizing. So their sacred cow, which is
1:57:26
the Kent Hovind movement case, would be Kent Hovind in the AIG
1:57:29
movement. That would be Kent Ham.
1:57:31
Criticizing the sacred cow is grounds for banishment, for
1:57:36
excommunication, I guess would be the more religious term.
1:57:40
And that's something that's not OK.
1:57:42
You can't have that in the creationism movement.
1:57:45
Cults of personality are everywhere these days, and it's
1:57:49
not good. And even though sometimes the
1:57:53
heads of those cults of personality say and do things
1:57:56
that are good, the general behavior and attitudes and
1:58:00
spirits behind these cults of personality are not good.
1:58:05
The fruits never been good. I was part of one when I was
1:58:10
more active on Gab and Andrew Torbis cult of personality was
1:58:15
bigger and more popular than it is now.
1:58:19
I used to think because he put out this carefully crafted
1:58:22
image, that he was this godly man who started a social media
1:58:28
site to compete with Twitter and he just wanted people to have
1:58:31
the ability to speak freely. But then around 2020-2021, the
1:58:38
mask came off. He and his team started
1:58:40
censoring people, including Brett Keene.
1:58:42
I might add, Brett Keene got banned from Gab back in late
1:58:46
2020 for asking a question about why an article about a gang bang
1:58:53
was trending on Dissenter, even though it wasn't actually
1:58:57
trending. As far as the metrics of
1:58:59
engagement went, it's almost like it had been artificially
1:59:03
put into the trending like Facebook does.
1:59:06
Brett King got banned from Gab for asking that question.
1:59:10
So I've seen other cults of personality outside the under of
1:59:14
creationism movement affect people I know.
1:59:18
Well, it's not just Gab, it's a YouTube has the ability as well
1:59:22
as ex social media to put false trends into their section.
1:59:26
I'll give you an example. Every time Elon Musk wants to
1:59:29
announce some kind of product or that one of his new rockets is
1:59:33
going off, it just magically starts being the number one
1:59:37
trending thing. And let's face it, not everybody
1:59:40
gives a damn about how a a rocket launches.
1:59:42
You know what I mean? So, yeah, so I mean, I love Elon
1:59:48
and I think what he does is interesting, but I know that
1:59:51
he's not everybody's cup of tea. Definitely not worth trending on
1:59:56
how a rocket lands and water and all that.
1:59:59
So there's that, Dan. We do have an open panel.
2:00:02
There are links out there. I have spoken to Dan before,
2:00:05
he's not a troll, he's actually a a fairly decent person.
2:00:09
If he wants to come in and actually argue his point, go for
2:00:13
it Dan. We we are more than welcoming of
2:00:16
people. Yeah, Dan is welcome to come in
2:00:19
and ask me things directly, but as far as this comment you can
2:00:23
see on screen, I would like a link to that so that I can see
2:00:27
it with my own eyes. I will definitely remove that
2:00:32
criticism of Kent Hovind if you can show him saying that.
2:00:37
But by showing I mean giving me a link and it would be even
2:00:40
better as if you give me a link with a time marker if it's part
2:00:43
of like a larger video, that is something that I would take to
2:00:48
heart. But as far as your other comment
2:00:51
that you made, one Corinthians chapter 15 is the only place
2:00:54
that specifically spells out the gospel, and nowhere is
2:00:58
repentance or younger of creationism in there.
2:01:01
You're committing the same mistake as Ken Ham.
2:01:04
You're using the exact words fallacy.
2:01:07
You're basically saying that because repentance and young
2:01:09
earth creationism are not in this specific passage in First
2:01:13
Corinthians 15 that spells out the gospel, that therefore
2:01:17
they're not salvation issues. You're committing the same
2:01:20
fallacy, therefore your argument is not valid.
2:01:24
As you saw Ken Ham teach in his own ministry back in 2020, and
2:01:30
as you saw me say earlier in the live stream, The three premises
2:01:35
that Ken Ham and I both agree on are that the Bible teaches A6000
2:01:41
year old urban universe. Anything that the Bible clearly
2:01:44
teaches as a young as a issue of biblical authority and biblical
2:01:48
authority is a salvation issue. So therefore, the logical
2:01:52
conclusion that flows from those three things is that younger of
2:01:55
creationism is a salvation issue.
2:02:00
The same thing applies to repentance.
2:02:03
We have specific passages in the Bible that say that repentance
2:02:09
leads to salvation. Well, if repentance leads to
2:02:14
salvation, then that means it's part of salvation, because if
2:02:18
you don't repent, salvation cannot occur.
2:02:22
It's just like abiogenesis in the evolution paradigm.
2:02:25
Abiogenesis has to happen for the rest of evolution narrative
2:02:31
to occur. And yet, Despite that,
2:02:34
evolutionists and atheists will say that abiogenesis is not part
2:02:38
of evolution, even though in dictionaries on the Internet and
2:02:43
around the world, abiogenesis is described as the first evolution
2:02:48
to occur. And abiogenesis on Wikipedia
2:02:51
used to say that it was an evolutionary process until the
2:02:56
atheist started going in after I pointed this out and changed the
2:02:59
article so that it no longer says that abiogenesis is an
2:03:03
evolutionary process. All this stuff I'm laying out is
2:03:09
pretty bonafide easy to verify it's all true.
2:03:14
So when you use the exact words fallacy in relation to the First
2:03:17
Corinthians 15 to tell me that young of creationism and
2:03:21
repentance are not part of salvation or the gospel message
2:03:25
of salvation, your arguments not valid.
2:03:30
Does it matter what a nice person you are?
2:03:32
Doesn't matter if I like you or not, the argument is invalid and
2:03:37
I am not afraid to say that because it's the truth.
2:03:45
I'm surprised though that none of this, well, there were five
2:03:48
viewers, that none of the five viewers took up the opportunity
2:03:51
to come in. I do see Missing Mod though.
2:03:54
Hi missing mod, haven't seen you in a while as probably because I
2:04:00
don't stream that much and it's been a while.
2:04:04
I think it's been at least three years or something since I've
2:04:06
last seen her in the live stream.
2:04:11
Anyway, we are. Let me give you something that
2:04:14
you'll be able to use when dealing with clowns who make
2:04:17
that kind of claim. Hold on a second about the
2:04:21
abiogenesis thing. You can have this in your
2:04:24
repertoire. That way you don't have to go
2:04:26
through all kinds of nonsense. I put it on your overlays.
2:04:30
It's the latest image. All righty.
2:04:39
Awesome. So abiogenesis.
2:04:41
Yep, that's according to Oxford Languages direct Google search.
2:04:46
It looks like the original evolution of life or living
2:04:49
organisms from inorganic or inanimate substances.
2:04:55
So yes, abiogenesis is part of evolution.
2:05:00
So to any atheist and evolutionists out there who
2:05:02
somehow made it two hours deep into this live stream, you guys
2:05:07
totally have to defend abiogenesis in debates with
2:05:11
creationists. Because abiogenesis is part of
2:05:13
evolution whether you like it or not.
2:05:16
And you can change all the dictionaries in the world if you
2:05:19
want to. But that doesn't prove that
2:05:20
we're wrong. It just proves that you don't
2:05:22
like burden of proof. But anyway, that is a good
2:05:27
overlay. Thank you, Brett.
2:05:29
I see. You're welcome.
2:05:30
We we run in the too many uneducated high school dropouts
2:05:35
and atheism. It's time that we just throw
2:05:38
things up like that so we don't have to spend 15 minutes
2:05:41
educating them on how science works of.
2:05:46
Course, now that you've shown me this, and now that I put it up
2:05:49
on stream and Reddit, at some point you know they're going to
2:05:52
change the Oxford languages. Well they can try, but we also
2:05:58
have the the original copy before anything gets changed.
2:06:02
And the fact that they keep on doing that, it doesn't really
2:06:05
matter to claim that a non animate object is changing or
2:06:10
transitioning over into something symbiotic or alive as
2:06:15
defined. It's still an evolutionary
2:06:18
process no matter how they try to play the game.
2:06:22
Well, it's about time it's mod. I thought you weren't even
2:06:24
thinking about me. How nasty.
2:06:27
Come on in, people. Yep, open panel.
2:06:31
I just put the link to the room in the rumble chat and it's
2:06:36
already been sent out in our live chat.
2:06:39
So Yep. Anyone who's interested in
2:06:41
coming in. Normally I am streams about now,
2:06:44
but me and Steven went on a long time so I'll give a little
2:06:48
overtime for open panel discussion as long as you're
2:06:53
down for it. Well come on Dan, come on in.
2:06:57
If you want to have a discussion with TTR, Miss and Mod, once you
2:07:01
come in, say hello. That way we can feel special as
2:07:04
people. And to address the comment that
2:07:09
was just on screen, I do not consider myself to be an
2:07:13
encyclopedia of information. I've just read a lot of things,
2:07:17
seen a lot of videos, read a lot of articles, and there are
2:07:22
certain things that once you see them, you can't Unsee them.
2:07:26
And when it comes to a lot of these creationism things, those
2:07:31
tend to have the same effect as impact events.
2:07:35
Basically, they are burned into my mind forever and I'll
2:07:39
remember them until the day I die.
2:07:42
But as much as I can, I like to show stuff on screen and prove
2:07:47
the things I say, whether it be on a live stream or it be in one
2:07:50
of my offline uploads. Because I know there's going to
2:07:53
come a point where I eventually retire from making videos or I'm
2:07:58
no longer on the earth. And it's best to have all this
2:08:01
stuff preserved and written and video form so that people who
2:08:05
come after can look in at these things and understand them for
2:08:10
themselves. And my philosophy from the
2:08:12
beginning in 2013 has always been that if one person benefits
2:08:18
from what I do, then it's all worth it.
2:08:21
That's the most realistic expectation that a person can
2:08:24
have because some people have a higher expectation and they
2:08:28
expect to become popular when doing what God's called them to
2:08:32
do. And so I have a low expectations
2:08:36
like that because I can't control a lot of things.
2:08:42
So nobody said anything about this, but I will.
2:08:46
At the very beginning of the show you played two pretty cool
2:08:50
tracks. Will you be taking my advice on
2:08:52
how to get them distributed? I will.
2:08:57
I'm going to put them on my channel first as videos with
2:09:00
lyrics because or just as videos with images because I it's
2:09:08
easier for me production wise to create good audio files off of
2:09:11
that. But I will definitely be taking
2:09:15
your advice on how to get it distributed from there.
2:09:19
You don't want you don't want to.
2:09:21
You don't want to put your music and lyrics up until you set it
2:09:25
through the distributor in the copyright process.
2:09:28
If you put it out there, the atheist will steal it in less
2:09:31
than 5 minutes, and if they copyright it first on you, then
2:09:36
you will not be able to use the music any longer.
2:09:41
Good point, especially now that I'm on the DP radar.
2:09:46
Exactly. All right, well, that's
2:09:51
something we can work on the next week when I'm on vacation.
2:09:55
I think that these folks have been given a lot of time missing
2:09:58
mod. I've been over to your live
2:10:00
shows and you seem very sad lately.
2:10:02
A lot of people are angering you.
2:10:04
May I give you some advice? Give links to people that you
2:10:07
know aren't going to pester you or annoy you.
2:10:10
You know, like me. My e-mail is
2:10:12
stillbrettkeenphone@gmail.com. You know, teeth you are is
2:10:16
e-mail. So if you want some people who
2:10:18
will support you and be there for you and and not try to make
2:10:22
you out to look like I can't cuss right now, ladies and
2:10:27
gentlemen, then you can have some cool friends on board.
2:10:30
Sound good? No more annoyance.
2:10:36
I would take Brett's advice. Of course that's the best way to
2:10:42
do things. That is the way, as The
2:10:44
Mandalorian says. Yes, he does.
2:10:50
OK, well, no one has come into the room yet, so I think we're
2:10:56
going to go ahead and I'm going to go ahead and end this stream
2:11:01
now. But it was good doing this show.
2:11:04
It was good to see Stevens full presentation on Ron Wyatt being
2:11:09
blackballed by the YEC community, and it was good for
2:11:14
me personally to go over some of this older info on the same
2:11:19
gatekeeper topic that I used to go over back in the day.
2:11:23
It's been a long time since I dealt with it and so because of
2:11:26
that a lot of my newer viewers may have well probably aren't
2:11:31
even aware of it, so it's good to review things from time to
2:11:36
time. You you posted your comment as
2:11:39
me too. Oh no, sorry about that.
2:11:44
That's OK, I'll just delete it right now.
2:11:46
You say. You say what I wrote, though.
2:11:49
Talk as long as you like. I know how to be silent, my
2:11:52
beloved. That was a good one, a good
2:11:59
funny mistake. But anyway, guys, thank you for
2:12:02
tuning in and oh hey, Dan's here.
2:12:07
I will add Dan and I will give him just for him.
2:12:12
I'll give him the stream an extra 15 minutes if it goes that
2:12:16
long. All right, don't let me change
2:12:19
the screen layout. Hey handsome, how you doing?
2:12:24
Good. And you?
2:12:26
Oh, I'm doing pretty good, just chilling out my buddy TTR, he's
2:12:30
very passionate about this topic.
2:12:32
What do you got for us, Dan? He is no, I just love his
2:12:35
passion. That's why we we had him on
2:12:38
Proverbs guy's ministry and, and, and so it just as we can
2:12:45
all agree to disagree on things. I just oh, and I want to copy.
2:12:50
I directly asked Kent Hovind. I don't know what he said 19.
2:12:55
I mean, I heard what he just said in 2019.
2:12:57
So I did ask him. I think it was live show this
2:13:01
spring or it was recent. And I was like, Hey, you got
2:13:04
those people saying you don't believe in repentance.
2:13:07
What say you? And he goes, yes, you have to
2:13:10
repent to actually accept the gospel.
2:13:15
But I think even the one you read that repentance leads you
2:13:19
to salvation, so. Did you ask that coven this on a
2:13:26
live Proverbs show or was this done on his rumble?
2:13:30
It was alive, it was before Rumble is before he got so it
2:13:34
might have been last year before he got kicked off.
2:13:38
Well, we. Can't, we can't really get we
2:13:39
can't really get the video off of him if it's was from one of
2:13:43
his old YouTube channels that got snagged.
2:13:46
Is there, Dan, is there any way you'd be able to ask Ken Toven
2:13:52
to like, I mean, talk to him on the phone or something and let
2:13:55
him know that you're recording the conversation, but ask him
2:13:58
his view about that again. All right.
2:14:02
I'll I'll try to do a live show. I haven't seen him.
2:14:05
I've been, I've been building a nonprofit nursery for a
2:14:09
nonprofit agency. Hopefully I'll be a profit
2:14:12
nursery, but for a nonprofit. So I've been kind of off the air
2:14:15
for gosh like 3 or 4 months. So once I get.
2:14:20
Back. I noticed you're getting a bit
2:14:21
furry there, guy. Kind of rugged the way we like
2:14:24
it. I'm lazy.
2:14:25
I'm lazy. Not, not never looked like your
2:14:28
picture, but yeah, I just, I, I'm kind of rebellious.
2:14:33
So like feel like you got to, you're going to church.
2:14:36
You're not shaving. It's like Jesus, I don't think
2:14:38
shaved that much. I don't know.
2:14:41
So and I and I, that's what I enjoy about Justin is that he is
2:14:47
on the fringe of I'm not going to follow you just because you
2:14:50
say so. And that's where I am.
2:14:54
It's like, no, I I believe in Christ, him crucified,
2:14:57
resurrected. Don't tell me what I have to
2:14:59
believe, OK? So, Dan, what is your view
2:15:02
whenever it comes to young Earth creationism?
2:15:06
I, I'm, I don't see how old earth goes with the God with,
2:15:12
with salvation. Now, I wouldn't call it, I, I
2:15:15
personally don't call it a salvation.
2:15:17
I believe God can forgive somebody with the air of deep
2:15:21
time, but I don't see how that jives with, you know, the whole
2:15:25
Adam and Eve original sin originally the the creation
2:15:30
being made perfect because as soon as God used, you know, a
2:15:35
death, death system like evolution, that's not a perfect
2:15:40
place. And and so he's going to restore
2:15:43
the perfection at the end. Well, if it's the beginning,
2:15:47
wasn't that wasn't perfect. I don't care who wants to say
2:15:50
it, whether you're evolutionist or whatever, if you believe in
2:15:53
abiogenesis and I made that comment, I love that one.
2:15:56
I I I'm going to have to redo and and see that because they'll
2:16:00
always hide from from the abiogenesis.
2:16:04
I'll tell you what I'll do, Dan. I will contact Kent myself and
2:16:08
if Proverbs doesn't do it, and I'll let him know that I'm
2:16:12
recording the conversation and I will have an extensive
2:16:15
discussion with them about repentance.
2:16:17
That way we can resolve this. TTR is already, TTR is already
2:16:22
said that if he hears him get corrected over this, then
2:16:27
that'll be 1 less criticism for Kent Hogan.
2:16:30
So I can do that. I will.
2:16:32
I will resolve this issue if possible and I'm also going to
2:16:35
make my way into dealing with the Kent Ham thing as well.
2:16:40
Let me throw out a couple questions for both of you and
2:16:43
see how you go with this. Do you guys agree that the FIFA
2:16:47
on the cross went to heaven? Did he go with Jesus when Jesus
2:16:51
died and resurrected? Yes or no?
2:16:54
And that day he was seen in with him in paradise.
2:16:57
I I I say yes that that. Jesus.
2:17:01
Jesus told him he would. So yes.
2:17:04
The reason why I asked this question and you know I love you
2:17:07
with all my heart TTOR and I'd never play a gotcha game on any
2:17:10
of my Christian brothers and sisters, but is there any
2:17:13
indication that a majority of the people in the Bible had any
2:17:17
idea what the age of the earth actually was?
2:17:22
If you're going by just the Bible and you don't get that
2:17:25
information, but of course there are reasons why you don't get
2:17:29
that information, it's because the Bible itself is just a
2:17:32
collection of documents. It's actually 2 collections of
2:17:36
documents, Old Testament, New Testament.
2:17:39
Now if you go look at the early church fathers, which a lot of
2:17:43
old earth creationists will point towards the early church
2:17:46
fathers as proof that you know, the Bible doesn't teach young
2:17:49
earth creationism. But then when you look at the
2:17:52
exact church fathers that they name, a lot of those guys, if
2:17:55
not all of them, they specifically and explicitly
2:17:59
taught a young Earth and they said things in relation to a
2:18:03
young Earth that would have obviously been true like that.
2:18:06
Some of their letters say, well, yeah, not even 10,000 years has
2:18:10
passed. It's like, well, yeah, because
2:18:13
at this time the Earth's only 4000 years old, so that would be
2:18:17
true. Stuff like that.
2:18:20
These are excellent points T2 are and I absolutely agree with
2:18:23
you and I would love to hear Dan on this, but I I have to respond
2:18:28
with this. I would I would say that most of
2:18:31
the disciples, they never implied that they had any
2:18:34
understanding of the age of the earth or even talked about it as
2:18:38
well as the men of the Old Testament.
2:18:40
With that being the case where they saved, is God going to let
2:18:44
them go to heaven because they didn't have an understanding of
2:18:48
this this scientific attribution of the age of the universe?
2:18:53
The good news in the New Testament is that I believe it's
2:18:57
Romans one, or maybe it's later in Romans.
2:19:00
There's a passage in the New Testament that talks about, Oh
2:19:03
no, it's not Romans, it's Jesus. In Luke, I think it is, Jesus
2:19:09
talked about how people would be punished based on what they
2:19:12
knew, not based on what they didn't know.
2:19:16
Because he said that the one who knows much will be beaten with
2:19:19
many blows, but the one who knows little will be beaten with
2:19:22
fewer blows. So in the Bible we see straight
2:19:26
in the Gospels that you are judged based off what you do
2:19:31
know, not off of what you don't know.
2:19:34
And Romans, I think chapter 3, maybe it's chapter 2, Romans
2:19:40
makes it clear. Actually it's Romans one and
2:19:42
two, because Romans one and two makes it clear that everyone
2:19:45
knows that God exists and what his attributes are based off of
2:19:50
the observed creation that we live in.
2:19:52
And then Romans says that everyone's hearts have the laws
2:19:57
of God basically placed in them, built into them from the get go.
2:20:01
So. And at the bare minimum level
2:20:05
and everything else aside, everyone knows that God exists
2:20:08
on some fundamental level. Everyone knows the laws of God
2:20:12
as far as morality goes, because according to the New Testaments,
2:20:16
the laws of God are written in our hearts.
2:20:19
They're not just written down, you know, in the Old Testament.
2:20:21
They're not just written down in the New Testament.
2:20:23
That would come. It was written in our hearts.
2:20:26
So everyone at a bare minimum has that going for them.
2:20:30
Even if they never hear about Jesus, even if they never hear
2:20:34
the gospel, even if they never hear about young earth
2:20:37
creationism or any of the other variety of topics that the Bible
2:20:42
clearly teaches that are salvation issues based off of
2:20:45
the logic the AIG lays out. So the answer to that question
2:20:50
is it depends on what they knew, and everyone has a bare minimum
2:20:54
standard. So the more you know, the more
2:20:57
responsible you are for it. So that's why in the New
2:21:01
Testament there was warnings about people being teachers,
2:21:05
because they would be held more accountable for what they taught
2:21:09
than the normal person would. So the more knowledge you get,
2:21:14
the more responsible you are. I think I've made the point by
2:21:16
now. No I absolutely agree with you.
2:21:19
It's a sound argument and point. But with that being said, if we
2:21:24
look at our modern day society and our education system, our
2:21:28
education system has failed us. We have politicians, we have
2:21:32
gatekeepers, we have all these people who are throwing out all
2:21:36
these false ideas and heresy as you point out.
2:21:39
How can one actually know what the truth is when the authority
2:21:42
of science even lies to us and gives all these refuted supposed
2:21:47
arguments? I mean, when it comes down to
2:21:50
it, unless we have Someone Like You is constantly hammering into
2:21:53
our head, we're never actually going to really know the truth,
2:21:56
are we? Well, the truth does have to be
2:22:00
repeated a lot. Peter talked about that in
2:22:02
Second Peter. But yeah, I know Steven did not
2:22:06
like the second part of my presentation on the topic, but I
2:22:11
really meant what I said about how it's very possible that Ron
2:22:15
White was correct in everything he discovered and said, or at
2:22:19
least most of it, and he was blackballed by these gatekeepers
2:22:24
in the YEC community. I think that's totally possible.
2:22:28
As a matter of fact, I think it's so possible that I'm
2:22:30
probably going to look more into Ron Wyatt than I ever have
2:22:33
before just because of everything that I've seen and
2:22:37
heard being presented by Steven and his videos and in tonight's
2:22:40
stream. Like, that's something that's
2:22:43
definitely worth me investigating more into because
2:22:47
of the fact that I know there are gatekeepers everywhere
2:22:52
within, within and without of the YEC community.
2:22:55
So I probably owe it to myself and God and everyone else who
2:23:01
actually supports Ron Wyatt's work that to actually look into
2:23:05
that more. It sounds like that'd be an
2:23:08
excellent future video for sure. Dan, do you have any topics or
2:23:12
questions? Beautiful dog.
2:23:13
You are willing to let me adopt it and take it off your hands?
2:23:17
You got to get on the list. Yeah, she's our nursery dog
2:23:21
here. She's the greeter.
2:23:23
I would just back up a little bit with the, the statement on
2:23:28
the, that you asked not just salvation, but also the thing of
2:23:34
did the people know about the 7th day, seven day creation?
2:23:40
And even Jesus, you know, through the Old Testament, not
2:23:43
just Genesis. So it talks about in seven days
2:23:47
and Jesus said even in seven days it was created.
2:23:50
Now then to go around that you say, well, he was just thinking,
2:23:56
you know, like I'm the door. I was like, oh, in seven days,
2:24:01
but for me it's like, you know, it's the same thing.
2:24:05
And people say that with Jonah, Oh, Jesus said just as he was
2:24:09
three days in the fish, I will date be 3 days in the belly of
2:24:14
the earth and people are going well.
2:24:16
So if you're saying kind of parallel to me is if you're
2:24:18
denying Jonah, you're denying Jesus death and, and the grave,
2:24:25
the seven day, I mean, I can see.
2:24:27
So the only way around that is that Jesus, anytime he said it,
2:24:31
anytime the Old Testament said it, they were understanding that
2:24:36
seven days meant 7 long periods because we didn't have the
2:24:41
dating. And of course, even when we
2:24:43
started dating, we as in the scientific community, it was
2:24:47
wow, the, the, it's millions of years old and it's like, whoa,
2:24:50
it's, it's more and it's more and now it's what I think up to
2:24:54
30, whatever, it's billions and billions of years.
2:24:58
So. It's getting insane, yeah.
2:25:00
Yeah. And so to me then it's like,
2:25:02
well, I can, I could be wrong, I could be wrong and you know,
2:25:06
Jesus talking about that was all figurative language.
2:25:08
But then again, like I said, with the not believing in the
2:25:12
deep time it's in, then how do you wrap that around Adam's
2:25:17
originally sin if these and and the fall from paradise that the
2:25:25
earth was created and God said it was good.
2:25:28
He's not very he's not a very good judge a good if he thinks
2:25:32
abiogenesis creating this planet and all the death that took to
2:25:38
get here was very good and and and he's gone.
2:25:42
So if he thinks that I came because the latest monkey a
2:25:48
million years ago ate the other one and then slowly became and
2:25:53
all these mutations, the trillions and trillions of
2:25:56
mutations that had to have happened from pond scum to our
2:26:01
modern complex create creatures, It's it's it's beyond it.
2:26:08
It is not. There isn't the evidence.
2:26:11
The evidence is a creator and creation.
2:26:14
So I just go with with what the Bible says, but there is where I
2:26:18
put it in the salvation issue. Jesus dying, him crucified, him
2:26:23
taking my place on the cross. That's where the repentance you
2:26:27
have to end that. So Ephesians 2 verse 8 for by
2:26:31
God's gift you have been saved through faith, not of yourselves
2:26:35
a gift of God, not of works, lest any man should boast.
2:26:38
And Jesus saying you have to of John 316.
2:26:42
You have to believe in Jesus and part of that is that you have to
2:26:47
believe. You need that.
2:26:50
So you need that savior, which means Dan Posey was not a good
2:26:55
person. Dan Posey was a maggot, they
2:26:59
say, and I they get on me for saying magnet but maggot.
2:27:02
But we know the meaning of filthy rags if you know the
2:27:05
Bible. And that to me is gross maggot,
2:27:09
saying that I was a Meg instead of the rags they infer.
2:27:13
I'd rather think of myself as a maggot.
2:27:15
But anyway, no, there's no good thing inside of me without the
2:27:21
Holy Spirit and God's gift of salvation.
2:27:25
So that's the two. So I know I like to poke.
2:27:28
And so Justin, yeah, I believe somebody has to repent to to to
2:27:37
have the gift of God's salvation.
2:27:41
I just don't get real picky on how, you know, the again, Paul
2:27:46
saying in Corinthian, first Corinthians 15, the first part
2:27:50
there that this is the gospel. This is the gospel I preach to
2:27:54
you. And it's the only place that it
2:27:57
specifically spells out and it is belief in Jesus, belief.
2:28:01
And again, to me that is inherent, that repentance.
2:28:06
You have to believe you need the Savior.
2:28:09
But I think God can forgive a lot of things that we don't
2:28:12
understand. That's why I loved your
2:28:14
statement, Justin, that yeah, that if God will overlook things
2:28:21
and if in our ignorance, and I just put it farther, that if
2:28:28
even if I read it or you tell somebody or I tell somebody, if
2:28:33
it's still ignorance and and it's still they don't get it.
2:28:37
I still think that's a forgivable.
2:28:39
But if if where I would separate that if they think, no, I'm not
2:28:43
a bad guy, but I need this Jesus guy on the cross, then I think
2:28:48
no, you you really haven't you haven't figured you haven't
2:28:53
called on the name of the Lord for sure.
2:28:55
That made any sense? Yeah, yeah, I got that.
2:29:00
But we are out of time unfortunately.
2:29:02
So thanks for coming on, Dan. Thanks for extending the stream
2:29:06
another 15 minutes and thank you everyone who tuned in.
2:29:13
I see Steven has a question. If the six days of creation was
2:29:17
long periods of time, how do we take Adam's 930 years?
2:29:21
Was that 930 periods of time? No, that's not how the English
2:29:27
language works. Anytime there is a number,
2:29:32
anytime there is a number or a time of day attached to the word
2:29:36
day, it always refers to a period of time of 24 hours,
2:29:43
which is an ordinary day. Now there is a creationist I
2:29:46
know who argues based on the law of entropy and some other
2:29:49
things, that the days of, yeah, our days used to be a little bit
2:29:53
quicker, a little bit shorter back in creation week, and
2:29:56
things have slowed down over time.
2:29:58
But even if you just go with the days of today or like the days
2:30:02
of the beginning or they were always 24 hours, anytime there's
2:30:06
a number or a time of day, Yeah, anytime there's a number or time
2:30:09
of day attached to the word day in the English language, it is
2:30:13
referring to an ordinary day like we experienced today.
2:30:17
So when? You do the creation.
2:30:19
That you see even. Yeah, even.
2:30:21
In the morning, first day, evening, in the morning, second
2:30:24
day, evening, the morning, third day, even in the morning, 4th
2:30:26
day. We know because there's times of
2:30:29
day and numbers attached to each of the days of creation.
2:30:34
We know for sure that they were ordinary days like we
2:30:37
experienced today based off of how the English language works.
2:30:42
And then when we get to Genesis 2, three, I think it is
2:30:46
actually, let me let me look that up really quick because I
2:30:49
think Genesis 2-3 is an actual instance where there is no
2:30:53
number or time of day attached to the word day.
2:30:56
And I just want to be sure that that's actually the case before
2:30:59
I go spouting poetic here. Let's see Genesis 2.
2:31:08
No, it's 24. Maybe it's the NIV, maybe it's
2:31:13
the King James. It's different.
2:31:16
Genesis 2 four I think is the one.
2:31:19
Let me just hit go. Yeah, Yeah.
2:31:24
Because in the King James version of Genesis 24, it says
2:31:28
these are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when
2:31:31
they were created in the day that the Lord God made the earth
2:31:34
in the heavens. So there is no number or time of
2:31:37
day attached to the word day in that verse in the King James
2:31:41
Bible. Therefore, we conclude that it's
2:31:44
referring to a period of time that is longer than an ordinary
2:31:48
day, which contextually speaking, this comes right after
2:31:52
the creation account. So it would be referring to that
2:31:55
whole 7 day creation. And then the creation account
2:31:59
that comes after is specifically what happens on day six.
2:32:03
That's the general consensus of young earth creationists who
2:32:07
look at the Scriptures and accept the straightforward
2:32:10
contextual reading of them. But if you read the NIV version
2:32:14
of that verse, you won't see the word day in that context, so you
2:32:18
have to look at certain Bibles. Very good.
2:32:27
And since he decided, since he decided to pop in here at the
2:32:31
end, I'll just leave this with you, Smokey.
2:32:34
According to the English language and the rules of that
2:32:38
language, anytime AEA time of day or a number is attached to
2:32:43
the word day, it is always referring to an ordinary day.
2:32:47
So your little comment, as cute as it, is, not valid.
2:32:50
You're ignoring the rules of English.
2:32:53
Anyway, now that I've gotten that out of the way, let's end
2:32:56
the stream here and hopefully I will see you guys in the near
2:33:00
future. Although it might be a couple of
2:33:02
weeks.