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The future world order hinges on the US-China rivalry · Cultural Wars | America Out Loud News

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1:01
I'm your host, Lieutenant Colonel Sergio Sanguri, who's
1:05
Army retired and the CEO of NECSC, any
1:09
board member of the National Security Hour itself.
1:13
My uh guest and a returning guest and
1:16
a dear friend and a colleague who's been
1:19
a colleague with us at the NCSC is
1:22
Jennifer Zhang, who is a member of the
1:25
International Press Association, a writer-reporter, uh video creator,
1:28
and also contributor to Japan forward.
1:31
Uh, she produces videos and writes stories and
1:33
commentaries and share her insights on the current
1:36
affairs as well as her personal experiences for
1:38
more than two decades.
1:41
Uh Jen has worked uh to expose the
1:43
lies and the crimes of the Chinese Communist
1:46
Party CCP and to document the injustices suffered
1:49
by the Falong Gong practitioners and other persecuted
1:52
uh groups.
1:55
Her articles have received numerous awards in international
1:59
um essay compositions, and have been published in
2:03
a respected outlet, such as the diplomat.
2:07
Uh Jen fled China in 2001 to Australia
2:10
after being persecuted for practicing Falong Gong.
2:14
She later uh published her memoirs witnessing history,
2:17
one woman's fight for freedom and phone gong,
2:21
and her story was uh adapted into the
2:25
award-winning documentary Free China, the courage to believe.
2:28
She now resides in the United States and
2:31
continues her mission to spread the church through
2:34
writing reporting videos, production, and blogging.
2:38
Uh, most importantly for us, Jen is a
2:41
senior advisor and a board member serving as
2:44
a director of China's governmental and societal affairs.
2:47
I'm sorry, I couldn't get that out.
2:49
You know, um, but uh uh Jen is
2:51
uh well uh you know a blessing to
2:54
have you here.
2:56
Uh it's been a uh it's been uh
2:59
kind of a rough couple of uh months,
3:01
especially looking at what's happening with China.
3:04
But I want to welcome you to the
3:05
show.
3:06
And uh let's see where we're gonna be
3:09
as far as China's concerned, and now that
3:11
uh Trump has uh just finished his initial
3:13
trip, uh and uh where we're gonna be
3:15
maybe uh going forward in the next couple
3:17
of years.
3:23
Okay, uh it seems a lot of people
3:26
having uh a lot of to say about
3:29
this Trump Shi meeting.
3:32
And uh up to now we don't see
3:36
any joint statement or like very detailed statement
3:40
coming out uh from this meeting.
3:44
So from the White House, there's a side
3:46
of story from the White House from the
3:48
Chinese side.
3:51
They haven't said much until now.
3:55
So of course uh everyone is you know
3:58
focusing on uh the trade war and the
4:02
national security issue, Iran war and Taiwan, and
4:06
what uh America wants and what uh China
4:09
wanted to gain.
4:14
So both sides, of course, has some has
4:17
have something to uh to hope or wish
4:20
to gain from this meeting.
4:24
So from the American side, uh on the
4:27
surface, Trump held a huge delegate with uh
4:30
take uh took a huge delegate kit with
4:34
a lot of top business people in America,
4:37
and uh he said he wished to open
4:40
up Chinese market.
4:44
So I think maybe the China China were
4:48
agreed to or agree to buy products like
4:51
Boeing plane, uh soyobin, I like even oil
4:55
from the US.
4:59
And uh according to the US side, China
5:02
also agreed not to uh supply uh weapons
5:06
to Iran.
5:09
So that is from the China uh American
5:12
side, but from the Chinese side.
5:15
Uh of course the most important issue for
5:17
the for Xi Jinping under the C CP
5:20
is Taiwan.
5:23
So very long ago, there I had information
5:28
that actually Xi Jinping really wants to have
5:32
Trump promise that US will leave China or
5:37
CCP alone, whatever they want to do with
5:41
Taiwan.
5:46
Uh uh the America will not interfere.
5:51
And uh to achieve this purpose, China can
5:54
make conceits in many other areas.
5:59
Uh so this time, you know, they I
6:02
think there is a very high intention about
6:05
whether Taiwan were becoming a bargain chip in
6:08
this meeting.
6:11
Obviously, up to now, uh, we heard when
6:15
Xi Jinping talks about Taiwan, Trump said nothing.
6:20
So I think I don't think uh America
6:23
will and can really uh sell Taiwan to
6:26
China.
6:29
That's not possible, and it will not happen.
6:33
Uh so for the for the CCP, I
6:37
think right now Xi Jinping has made a
6:41
huge I think crisis and difficult back in
6:44
China and and but the international community really
6:48
know very little or very limited, has very
6:52
limited knowledge about that.
6:56
So right now, Xi Jinping actually desperately needs
7:00
Needs Trump to come to actually show some
7:00
Trump to come to uh actually show uh
7:04
some kind of respect or show that Xi
7:05
kind of respect or show that Xi Jinping
7:09
Jinping is still uh you know world leader
7:10
is still world leader and can share the
7:13
and can share the stage with Trump because
7:16
stage with Trump because Xi Jinping needs land
7:18
Xi Jinping needs land legitimacy given to him
7:21
legitimacy given to him by Trump's diplomacy.
7:22
by Trump's diplomacy.
7:27
Back in back in China, he
7:27
Back in back in China, he several, I
7:31
think starting from several years ago, he has
7:35
encountered huge problems inside the military, and also
7:39
uh the huge problems with the Chinese economy
7:43
going down very, very fast and deteriorating very
7:47
fast.
7:52
And also the international environment is deteriorating very
7:55
fast for the CCP.
7:59
So right now, what Xi Jinping faces is
8:03
not only the international pressure, but also the
8:07
pressure from the domestic pressure, both from the
8:11
inside the party, inside the military, and in
8:15
the general public and in the society.
8:19
So you can see he has been eliminating
8:22
almost all his high-level generals in the past
8:25
several years.
8:29
Like for the out of the seven members,
8:32
only two are left.
8:36
Five of these seven members of the Central
8:39
Military Commission were eliminated already.
8:43
That a huge ratio in terms of any
8:47
high uh ranking military.
8:51
I think the world never seen anything happened
8:54
like this with one country's military.
8:57
Xi Jinping has eliminated almost a 75% of
9:01
the generals.
9:04
He personally promoted himself.
9:07
So right now the Chinese army is an
9:11
army without proper leadership.
9:15
So how can this kind of army still
9:17
fight?
9:19
So this kind of uh crisis, the outside
9:23
world, I think has uh no very little.
9:27
So for this meeting, Xi Jinping needs it
9:30
more than Trump.
9:33
Uh but on the long run, maybe in
9:36
the short term, there were some maybe results
9:40
coming out, like uh both sides ease some
9:43
of the tensions with the trade, maybe lower
9:46
some tariffs for some kind of products.
9:50
China may promise to buy something from America
9:54
and is maybe ease uh even do something
9:57
with the fentanyl issue and this and that.
10:01
But in the non-run, why you know US
10:05
and China relationship came to this stage?
10:09
It is because there are fundamental issues between
10:13
these two countries that won't be solved through
10:16
this meeting and were not solved in the
10:19
future.
10:23
So in the non-run, I think uh problems
10:28
still exist and may also intensify.
10:33
So some Chinese commentators are saying that this
10:37
trip uh is a fairware trip.
10:42
And uh this is the end of the
10:46
trading negotiations between uh China and uh Europe.
10:50
And this is a fairware trip to a
10:54
huge historic period, and uh and this will
10:57
begin another period in terms of China and
11:01
US relationships.
11:05
Uh so trade from now on will not
11:09
be the main issue between the two countries,
11:13
but national security, world dominance, and who defined
11:17
the order and the rules for the world
11:21
is the very important one.
11:25
America is a country based on you know
11:28
freedom, democracy, and China is a country based
11:31
on communism.
11:35
So these two systems of ideologies and of
11:39
social system don't um don't do not compati
11:44
are not compatible for each other.
11:49
So in the long run, uh like Xi
11:51
Jinping wants to promote the idea of peacefully
11:54
co-exist.
11:57
But what the CCP has been doing is
12:00
very opposite to that.
12:03
So in the non-run, that will not happen.
12:06
So like the other day I I told
12:10
uh Indian journalist, he she asked me what
12:14
India and other uh countries should do in
12:18
terms of the new China and America rivalry,
12:22
and I said maybe the time of choosing
12:26
to stand with both sides will end soon.
12:30
You either choose to stand with America or
12:33
you choose to stand with uh China.
12:37
Initially, a lot of uh countries, especially in
12:41
Southeast uh Southeast Asian countries, they choose to
12:44
do business with China, but they still need
12:48
uh needs America to offer them national security
12:52
uh insurance.
12:56
So uh in the from now on, that
12:58
kind of you know, stepping on two boats
13:01
at the same time may not uh exist
13:03
anymore.
13:06
So you either uh choose America and you
13:09
either choose uh the CCP side.
13:12
So for me, this is a very clear
13:14
picture.
13:17
Oh, it is uh and well said the
13:19
reality is that uh um look, um I
13:22
think you know when initially Wang Yi stood
13:25
on stage, uh offered his vision under the
13:28
new power relations to the globe in 2012,
13:31
you know, we thought that uh uh US
13:33
would counter that because his vision was that
13:36
China would, you know, US would see it
13:39
all the last uh places in Asia to
13:42
the um to China uh while it would
13:44
retreat when in its borders focus on maybe
13:47
South America and then have either Russia or
13:50
the EU become the victor in their fights
13:53
with everybody competing for resources in Africa and
13:56
to an extent.
13:59
We saw that under Trump one Biden and
14:00
On Biden and Trump too that is kind
14:00
Trump too, that is kind of shaped up
14:02
of shaped out that way.
14:02
that way.
14:04
But with all that said, the reality is
14:04
But with all that said, um uh the
14:07
that Trump has turned that against uh uh
14:07
reality is that Trump has turned that against
14:10
China and uh has now control of the
14:10
uh uh China and uh has now control
14:13
energy in Venezuela, Argentina, uh control of the
14:14
of the energy in Venezuela, Argentina, um control
14:16
energy coming out of uh uh basically Iran,
14:17
of the energy coming out of uh um
14:20
and the fact was that Iran was uh
14:21
basically Iran, and the fact was that Iran
14:23
almost giving uh oil barrel was a hundred
14:24
was uh almost giving oil barrels 100, 20.
14:26
dollars, twenty dollars um a barrel to China,
14:29
Um
14:29
and China wasn't even paying uh Iran was
14:33
basically giving it maybe weapons, arms, and other
14:36
things that Iran needed uh to defend itself.
14:39
Um, but now you know China has to
14:42
pay uh a high cost for those barrels,
14:45
and if they do that, that means their
14:47
products are gonna have to become more expensive.
14:50
And it becomes an issue whether or not
14:52
you're gonna go ahead and uh debate and
14:54
fight over if I'm gonna buy an American
14:56
pen at the same price or a Chinese
14:58
pen, which one might be a better product,
15:00
I'll buy the American pen.
15:02
So China has to pay a little bit
15:03
more of a cost.
15:05
And uh I was listening to commentator today
15:08
who actually talked about the fact that you
15:11
know, look, it's demographically China's in a bad
15:14
place, and uh it's very much possible that
15:17
within the five years, which uh initially uh
15:20
um in three years that Ji Jinping had
15:23
talked about a 2030 vision on Taiwan.
15:27
Um that uh it's very much possible that
15:30
within five years you'll have uh more uh
15:32
uh you know uh depends uh diapers being
15:35
sold and baby diapers because the demographics have
15:38
flipped on their heads, and uh there's an
15:41
aging uh Chinese population, it is declining, and
15:44
uh uh frankly they're not able to replace
15:47
themselves as a point nine percent rate where
15:49
you need at least a 2.0% rate to
15:52
be able to replace those numbers.
15:55
Uh so and when it came to the
15:58
generals, as you mentioned them too, um Jen.
16:00
Uh, you know, when we initially went into
16:03
uh Wenezuela, the one thing that we noticed
16:05
was Chinese generals were purchasing a lot of
16:07
gold and silver.
16:09
Uh and we realized they're doing that because
16:12
they're trying to uh basically hedge their bets
16:14
in case there's an issue of shooting war
16:16
that might take place with China that uh
16:18
they would have uh out if the Chinese
16:21
Communist Party, you know, collapsed uh during uh
16:23
the next uh decade or so.
16:26
But uh with that said, uh we'll come
16:27
back and talk a little bit more about
16:29
these topics.
16:30
I do want to talk to you about
16:33
uh basically where we are with the demographics
16:36
with the economy of China uh in the
16:38
second uh segment of our discussion, and uh
16:41
of course my uh uh guest today is
16:43
again Jennifer Zhang, uh dear colleague and a
16:46
friend, uh senior advisory board member serving as
16:49
a director of China's governmental and societal affairs
16:51
for the Near East Center for strategic engagement.
16:54
We'll be back for the uh second portion
16:56
of our segment uh in a discussion on
16:58
uh Trump's visit to China.
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Uh my uh guest again uh today is
20:39
uh Jennifer Zhang is a member of the
20:42
International Press Association, uh a uh writer or
20:45
reporter uh and uh a contributor, especially to
20:48
Japan Forward.
20:51
And you know, uh uh Janna was uh
20:53
recently just it was this week when they
20:56
had the uh uh CIA whistleblower on the
20:59
hill testifying on the uh origins of COVID
21:00
Testifying on the origins of COVID and actually
21:02
and actually Japan Forward was uh where I
21:03
Japan Forward was where I initially had written
21:05
initially had written an article in February of
21:06
an article in February of 2020 to be
21:08
2020 uh to be published on the origins
21:09
published on the origins of COVID, but because
21:11
of COVID, but because we couldn't keep it
21:12
we couldn't keep it published in the US,
21:14
published in the US, I ended up publishing
21:15
I ended up publishing it in April.
21:17
it in April in uh Japan Forward.
21:18
In uh Japan Forward.
21:20
So uh they were uh they're one of
21:20
So they were uh they're one of the
21:22
the bet best uh you know newspapers out
21:23
best uh you know newspapers out there when
21:25
there when it comes to um trying to
21:26
it comes to um trying to at least
21:27
at least
21:30
uh make sure that uh the viewpoints are
21:33
shared with uh with the Asian readers specifically.
21:36
Jen, I did want to talk to you
21:38
a little bit more, and I know that
21:39
you know it's not a good thing.
21:40
They were going from an economic uh uh
21:43
relationship now, more of a security uh relationship
21:45
that you mentioned in the first portion of
21:47
the segment.
21:50
Um but I do want to talk about
21:53
when it comes to that reality, the demographics
21:56
and uh the possibly failing economy of China.
22:00
Um what are some of the things that
22:02
you are looking at when it comes to
22:04
the demographics and the possibility of where China's
22:07
economies can be in the next uh five
22:09
years of that relationship changes from an economic
22:11
support to a security issue?
22:14
Yeah, for the demographic issue.
22:18
I once shared a video that draw a
22:21
lot of a lot of attention, it's very
22:24
vividly let you dis uh to see the
22:28
future of the Chinese population.
22:31
So the video starts with uh uh the
22:35
playground of a high school, so you can
22:38
see hundreds, maybe three or five hundreds of
22:41
children were playing uh in uh in the
22:45
maybe the free time in the class and
22:48
uh uh at the playground of a high
22:52
school, and then the the camera penned to
22:55
uh just uh nearby or just next to
22:58
the high school is a primary school.
23:02
So you can say the primary school are
23:06
all also playing the playground, but there are
23:09
far fewer uh elementary school students, maybe in
23:13
the high school you say hundreds of them.
23:17
In in this elementary school, you only say
23:20
maybe 100, much less.
23:22
And next to the elementary school is the
23:26
kindergarten, where these kids were also playing in
23:29
the uh in the playground, and in the
23:33
kindergarten, there were only maybe about 20 children
23:37
were playing there.
23:40
So that's the current situation from the hundreds
23:43
of students in high school to maybe 100
23:47
in primary school, and then only 20 in
23:50
the kindergarten.
23:53
That's the frightening picture, and it's in just
23:57
a few seconds you pass from the playground
24:00
to the middle school to uh to uh
24:04
primary school and then to kindergarten.
24:07
That's the real situation of the Chinese population.
24:11
So if you look at the even official
24:15
numbers, like last year, only less maybe some,
24:19
I don't remember the exact number, either it's
24:22
eight million or something around that.
24:26
So that kind of new birth in one
24:29
year was even lower than the great, you
24:33
know, the great famine in China during 19
24:36
uh 60s.
24:40
The the new birth number was even lower
24:43
than that period, and lower than the beginning
24:47
of the so-called establishment of People's Republic of
24:51
China, and it was almost equal to the
24:55
new birth number in hundreds of years ago,
24:59
maybe in Qin Dynasty.
25:03
So that sheer number is so terrifying.
25:07
So which means people uh young people are
25:11
not married, um are not get married, they
25:14
are refuse to have children.
25:18
So that is a very desperate, maybe quiet
25:21
expression of how desperate the young people in
25:24
China now.
25:28
They refuse to marry, they refuse to uh
25:31
to raise children because they have lost their
25:35
hope in the future of the society.
25:39
To the point that recently the Chinese national
25:43
security ministry even reduced uh produce a video
25:48
to condemn the so-called flying flat, because flying
25:52
flat is the trending, you can say activity,
25:56
you can if you can call that an
26:01
activity is for the young people.
26:05
They do they say we like land, we
26:08
do nothing, we don't work hard because there's
26:10
no work to do anyway.
26:13
And if we work hard, we are only
26:16
paying the loans, we are paying paying the
26:18
loans for the banks, we are not getting
26:21
anything out of anything.
26:24
So people prefer to live land and do
26:26
nothing.
26:29
So a very passive way of living and
26:32
uh spend only spend the minimum amount of
26:34
money.
26:37
Some young people even go to the like
26:41
uh vegetable market or farmers market just to
26:44
pick up solarway vegetables free, of course, and
26:48
go by cook.
26:51
So they they spend no nothing, and they
26:54
are not ashamed of that.
26:56
They even share videos and it become a
26:58
new trend.
27:00
They go to the supermarket to just pick
27:04
up some solar wave vegetable, but still edible,
27:07
and then take them back home to cook.
27:11
And so they they share their way of
27:14
living on very minimum uh spending, and they
27:17
are proud of that, and I share this
27:21
kind of experience.
27:24
So that the mood, mood of many Chinese
27:27
young population.
27:30
So, how can a society with such a
27:35
huge uh youth can develop and thrive?
27:39
And uh you it also mentioned economy.
27:43
Economically, I think China is also have very,
27:46
very huge trouble.
27:49
Of course, it's because the economic model is
27:54
basically wrong from the beginning, because communism or
27:58
socialism is based on the so-called connective ownership,
28:02
state ownership.
28:07
So from the very beginning of the established
28:07
So from the very beginning of the established
28:10
of communist regime in China, they they they
28:11
of communist regime in China, they they took
28:13
they took away all the land, they confiscated
28:14
away all the land, they confiscated all the
28:17
all the land and all the businesses, and
28:18
land and all the businesses, and the government
28:20
the government takes control of everything, and then
28:21
takes control of everything.
28:23
they have the so-called people's commune, and everybody
28:25
And then they have the so-called people's commune,
28:26
found.
28:28
and everybody farm together and eat together and
28:31
share everything together.
28:34
But that didn't work.
28:36
That resulted in millions, hundreds of millions of
28:39
people, I think either 30 million to 40
28:43
million, or maybe more starved to death.
28:48
So that model didn't work, and they knew
28:49
themselves.
28:51
So that's why at the end of the
28:54
cultural revolution, Deng Xiaoping talk about reform and
28:57
opening to the outside world, opening to the
28:59
West.
29:02
That's when they started establishing diplomatic relationship with
29:06
America and the open to the so-called outside
29:10
world.
29:13
And then it talked about learning from the
29:16
West and import technology from the West.
29:20
And finally, it was allowed to join WTO.
29:24
And since then, China's economy took off.
29:28
But if we look back, we know how
29:32
did they uh gain their so-called very fast
29:36
growth rate in the past maybe four decades.
29:40
One, they rely on the huge international market.
29:44
The whole world opens, opened their market to
29:46
China.
29:49
Two, they steal a huge number of intellectual
29:53
property technology from America and from other countries.
29:58
Three, they I think they have very they
30:02
exploit their own workers very, very badly, very
30:06
low human rights or no human rights condition.
30:11
They don't care about the environment, they don't
30:15
care about the laborers' uh welfare, so very
30:19
cheap and low human rights uh products.
30:24
But they don't have a healthy and really
30:28
grow a growth engine of itself.
30:32
So when the outside world when America and
30:35
the West realized that we are being you
30:39
know exploited by the C CP.
30:43
Our market were you know dumped by by
30:47
the cheap product from the C CPR manufacturing,
30:51
uh were hollowed out by the C CP.
30:55
When this then the world realized the unfair,
30:59
you know, state subsidies to the state uh
31:03
enterprises from the Chinese government, when the world
31:07
starts to push back, the the Chinese economy
31:11
suddenly realized it has no uh you know,
31:15
growth engine of its its own.
31:20
Once, of course, the real estate market developed
31:23
also very, very fast, its market value as
31:26
well as the volume of the high buildings
31:30
grew very, very fast.
31:33
But then people realize that is a huge,
31:36
huge bubble.
31:39
Uh that is not unreal, the house price
31:43
is unrealistically high compared to the income of
31:47
the Chinese population, and because the land is
31:51
still owned by the state, by the government,
31:55
and the government sold you to the usage
31:59
of land use, you know, the rights.
32:03
So that bubble cannot uh you know sustained
32:06
anymore.
32:10
So the real estate bubble, you know, burst
32:13
burst several years ago.
32:17
And now in some places, house prices have
32:21
dropped over 50 percent, even 70 percent.
32:25
And so the last growth engine of Chinese
32:27
economy died.
32:30
So without a growth engine of the market,
32:34
and also the the governments of all levels
32:39
have accumulated hundreds of trillion dollars of debt,
32:44
which it can never pay back.
32:48
So when that bubble burst, the crisis, I
32:52
don't see a way that they can get
32:55
out of that crisis when the national debt
32:59
bubble burst.
33:03
No, I don't think they could get out
33:04
of it.
33:05
I mean, demographically they're dying economically the dynamic,
33:07
maybe that's that's why it keeps on bringing
33:09
Taiwan up, because uh, you know, Taiwan is
33:11
just basically let me go steal what I
33:13
can, you know, and a takeover, and then
33:16
at least the global economies are still relying
33:18
on me because our chip technologies, everything we
33:20
have, we're sold there, and we're winning ourselves
33:22
off.
33:24
It's gonna take some decades, but I guarantee
33:26
you, once we have win ourselves completely off
33:28
of Taiwan, then it becomes an issue of
33:30
whether or not you're gonna address it in
33:32
any which way.
33:35
And I think uh one thing IG has
33:37
to deal with the fact that just a
33:40
week ago, uh the first uh oil tanker
33:42
uh loaded up uh American flag oil tanker
33:45
in Texas and went through the Panama Canal
33:47
that we control now, uh paid a four
33:50
million dollar price, uh which US uh has
33:53
and it uh landed in Japan and provided
33:55
oil for Japan.
33:58
Um and uh that that's not gonna stop.
34:01
Uh so even Japan doesn't have to worry
34:04
about oil coming out of uh Iran for
34:06
it because now we control it to our
34:09
uh sectors and areas, so we can support
34:12
our allies who would have to go to
34:15
uh uh battle if uh uh China tries
34:18
to take Taiwan to break that you know
34:20
uh island chain uh that would really expose
34:23
uh the Pacific to China and would put
34:26
us in a very bad position strategically.
34:29
And when you're looking at the uh numbers,
34:32
just uh uh the child uh the Chinese
34:36
birth rate um hit a record low of
34:39
5.63 percent uh per every thousand people in
34:43
2025, and uh unfortunately that the trend keeps
34:46
uh moving in that direction.
34:50
So um, you know, that was a um
34:53
uh 3.39 million uh people were lost to
34:56
the numbers and demographics to the Chinese in
34:59
2025 and 2024 was just 1.4 million, but
35:00
In 2025 and 2024 was just 1.4 million,
35:02
uh it seems like the trend is uh
35:02
but uh it seems like the trend is
35:05
duplicating itself.
35:05
uh duplicating itself.
35:08
Um and uh as you said, uh kids
35:08
Um and uh as you said, uh kids
35:10
don't want to have uh kids themselves, and
35:10
don't want to have uh kids themselves, and
35:12
one of the pieces that we are using
35:13
one of the pieces that we are using
35:14
from the US multi side uh when it
35:15
from the US military side uh when it
35:17
comes to information operations against the the Chinese
35:17
comes to information operations against uh the Chinese
35:19
to break their wall to want to fight
35:20
to break their wall to want to fight
35:21
in a shooting war.
35:22
in a shooting war, um we keep on
35:23
Um we keep on uh telling them, you
35:25
uh telling him, you know, if because of
35:25
know, if because of the one child policy,
35:27
the one child policy, if we kill you
35:27
if we kill you.
35:30
uh and you're the only male to that
35:32
family, the entire branch tree is dead.
35:35
It goes away.
35:36
So once you're dead, there's no other that
35:38
means uh your entire ancestries, everything that has
35:41
existed for thousands of years that brought you
35:44
to this point will finally cease to exist
35:46
in a fight against the US and and
35:49
the fact that we showed that we're able
35:52
to basically nullify all the uh Chinese made
35:54
weapons systems that were provided to support Iran,
35:57
it uh shows that we're in uh in
36:00
a lead where China would like to be.
36:03
I don't know where the AI piece is.
36:05
Maybe we can talk about it a little
36:07
bit in the final segment of our discussion.
36:09
But uh, you know, we beat China to
36:11
the moon.
36:12
And uh frankly, uh I think if the
36:15
strength continues uh and people are starting to
36:18
look at China as an adversary, especially with
36:21
the fact that you have you know, mayors
36:23
in California now, you know, uh showing that
36:26
they're actually uh spies for uh China, and
36:29
um um we know that China has a
36:31
big uh hand and uh a lot of
36:34
the money that is coming through supporting the
36:37
protest or against uh US policies to be
36:40
able to secure ourselves better, maybe it becomes
36:42
an issue in the uh um next uh
36:45
presidential election to where you know a follow
36:48
up someone from Trump camp and becomes the
36:50
next president for the next eight years.
36:53
Uh it will continue that trend towards ensuring
36:56
that China does not have an ability to
36:59
breathe without the US approvals.
37:02
We will be back for the final segment
37:04
of our discussion with Jennifer Zhang, a member
37:07
of the International Press Association, a writer reporter,
37:10
uh, and also a contributor to Japan Forward,
37:13
she produces videos and writes stories and commentaries
37:16
that share her insights on the current affairs
37:18
as well as her personal experiences, reference China.
37:21
Uh she has worked for to expose the
37:24
lies and uh crabs of the Chinese Communist
37:27
Party and the document the injustices suffered, but
37:29
for long practitioners, we will be back for
37:32
the final segment of our discussion, uh, especially
37:35
concentrating on the Trump's uh news trip, as
37:37
uh Jennifer said of well, farewell trip possibly
37:40
uh when it comes to our economic ties
37:42
and shifting to more of a security issue
37:45
as far as uh China becoming an adversary
37:48
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39:17
Welcome back to our final segment on the
39:20
National Security Hour on America Outlaw Talk Radio
39:22
Network on iHeart Radio.
39:25
I'm your host, Lieutenant Colonel Sorgasinger, U.S.
39:28
Army retired, a board member of the National
39:30
Security Hour, and also CEO of the Near
39:33
East Center for Strategic Engagement.
39:35
My discussion continues with uh Jennifer Zhang, uh
39:38
senior advisory board member serving as a director
39:41
of China's governmental and societal affairs for the
39:44
Near East Center for Strategic Engagement.
39:48
Uh Jennifer is a China expert and former
39:50
researcher at the Development Research Center of the
39:53
State Council of the People's Republic of China,
39:56
the highest level governmental policy research and consulting
39:59
body.
40:02
And uh for the past uh uh number
40:05
of decades, uh she has worked in the
40:07
media industry again as a journalist, editor, news
40:10
producer, uh news director, columnist and TV uh
40:13
show host.
40:15
Uh she currently hosts her website at Jennifer
40:19
Jangblog.com uh and uh her video channel and
40:22
convention truths by Jennifer Jang uh can be
40:26
uh found on YouTube channels which aims at
40:29
uh offering authentic fast or fastest uh uncensored
40:33
firsthand information from inside of China and uh
40:36
uh as well as a unique in-depth analysis
40:40
and insight about China's current affairs and uh
40:43
politics.
40:47
Um Jennifer, um where do you think we
40:50
go from here?
40:53
Uh I mean when uh Xi brings up
40:57
Taiwan, that means he's focused Taiwan.
41:00
And if his economy is faltering, his demographics
41:03
are faltering, he doesn't have the leverage over
41:05
United States, uh Taiwan will definitely give him
41:08
leverage.
41:10
Do you think he is in any position
41:13
capable or that desperate that he may try
41:16
to make a move on Taiwan uh regardless
41:18
of who the president is?
41:21
Um I think for the CCP, the best
41:24
way for them to take Taiwan is of
41:27
course to compromise Taiwan from inside.
41:30
And let's say Taiwan, you know, collapse or
41:34
lose the will to stand up to uh
41:38
to the C SEPO, even one day uh
41:42
traitors from within Taiwan would gain uh upper
41:46
hand and say, hey, let's uh get you'll
41:50
get united with China.
41:54
With let's return to our motherland.
41:57
Very recently, the chairman of the newly, I
42:00
Of the newly, I think, elected um a
42:00
think, elected um a president or chairman of
42:03
president or chairman of the Goming Dang party
42:03
the Guomindang party went to China to have
42:06
went to China to have a meeting with
42:06
a meeting with Xi Jinxi, and she was
42:09
Xi Jinping, and she was so excited.
42:09
so excited.
42:13
So if you know this party took power
42:13
So if you know this party took power
42:16
in Taiwan, it could well happen that Taiwan
42:16
in Taiwan, it could well happen that Taiwan
42:20
would submit itself to C C P.
42:20
would submit itself to CCP.
42:24
That's the best scenario to the C CP.
42:24
That's the best scenario to the CCP.
42:27
It has been working very, very hard.
42:27
It has been working very, very hard to
42:31
divide Taiwan from within, to compromise Taiwan's Taiwan's
42:34
media, to infiltrate Taiwan.
42:37
They even create, I think, a huge number
42:41
of fake social media accounts to create to
42:45
do their so-called public opinion warfare, congregative warfare
42:48
to, so that's their best wish and the
42:52
best scenario.
42:56
If that could not happen, I don't think
43:00
Xi Jinping would really believe he can win
43:04
the war, but the risk here and the
43:08
danger for the international community is even if
43:12
he knew he could not uh win the
43:16
war over Taiwan, but he needs a war
43:20
to bring the China to so-called emergency state
43:24
status where he can enforce like martial law
43:28
and uh war starters, uh you know, special
43:32
manage strict management, he can even freeze people's
43:36
bank accounts.
43:41
So that could be his last ditch, disparate
43:43
motion.
43:45
He can maybe create a very controllable, limited
43:48
conflict somewhere, maybe with either with Taiwan or
43:51
maybe in the South China Sea with another
43:54
country.
43:57
So the purpose is not to win the
44:00
war, but to have a war so that
44:04
Xi Jinping can bring the China to an
44:07
emergency state so he can impose very strict
44:11
um control mode in China to maintain his
44:14
power.
44:18
If he cannot maintain his power with any
44:20
other conventional way, create a war is the
44:23
last ditch effort.
44:26
So that's the danger we can never look
44:29
away from.
44:32
So we we should always be very uh
44:36
watch out for that danger.
44:39
So militarily, I don't think the CCP is
44:44
ready or has that kind of power, but
44:48
you can never underestimate their how low they
44:53
can go when they want to gain something.
44:57
So the international world sometimes we lack that
45:00
sort of imagination.
45:03
So we should never underestimate how evil the
45:06
CCP could be.
45:09
So we should also always watch out.
45:13
Jennifer, how would you manage them?
45:15
Because frankly, US has been managing um uh
45:18
China ever since the doors were open uh
45:21
during uh Nixon's years.
45:24
How would you manage it to where they're
45:26
not in that desperate of a position, but
45:28
don't give them the opt to be able
45:30
to still be successful enough to be a
45:33
near-peer against us with leverage over us over
45:35
the long period of time.
45:38
So what would your advice be of how
45:40
to manage them in this process?
45:43
I think the first if I want I
45:46
can get uh give advice.
45:50
I think the US should um have its
45:55
own political will and understanding.
46:01
Like what we we want to do with
46:04
the Chinese communist party with this regime.
46:08
If we allow it to continue to exist,
46:12
it can think about a thousand ways to
46:15
infiltrate us, to undermine us.
46:18
If you bant over with this one, like
46:21
if you find one agent, there could be
46:25
another 200 or 1,000 uh somewhere in America.
46:28
You could never fight them.
46:31
Uh you you could never end their infiltration,
46:34
and they they have been planning and doing
46:37
this for decades.
46:40
So it is very hard.
46:42
You like you you plug this this whole
46:45
and then uh another come out.
46:48
So I think the most basic solution and
46:52
a long-term solution is to recognize the CCP
46:56
for what it really is.
47:00
It is an evil cult, it is it
47:03
is an international terrorist regime.
47:06
It kills its own people and it's funding
47:09
all the terrorist groups and the evil nations,
47:12
regimes in the entire world.
47:15
If we recognize and it for what it
47:18
is, you know, we once we once go
47:22
into Iraq to overthrow the Saddam's regime.
47:26
What the CCP has done, and how many
47:29
in terms of how many innocent Chinese people
47:33
the CCP has killed, it has, I think,
47:36
far exceed what Saddam Hussein has done.
47:40
So if we I think we should have
47:43
first the political will and a recognition to
47:47
call out CCP for what it is and
47:50
to help the Chinese people to overthrow the
47:54
CCP, one way or the other, and then
47:57
we if we really Chinese people gain freedom
48:01
and can join the free world and then
48:04
can become part of the civilized world, then
48:08
we gain security and peace once and for
48:11
all.
48:15
If we want to fight the CCP, there
48:17
are too many fronts to fight, and you
48:19
never know.
48:22
You know, one day you just have a
48:26
one minute of you know, lack of vagarance,
48:29
they could they could you know, maybe give
48:32
us a fatal strike over that one point
48:36
we forgot to guard against.
48:39
Yeah, I think that people keep on forgetting,
48:42
um, you know, just uh as you had
48:45
mentioned it in the first segment, just between
48:48
1958 and 1962 with the great leap forward
48:51
uh estimate of almost 45 million individuals that
48:54
were killed by the Chinese Communist Party, the
48:57
Cultural Revolution 1966 to 1976 millions, uh, you
49:00
know, exact figures or so, not counted on,
49:00
76 uh millions, uh you know, exact figures
49:02
are so not counted on, but uh other
49:02
but uh other political purges are taking place
49:04
political purges have taken place has been tens
49:05
has been tens of millions.
49:06
of millions.
49:08
So they don't uh just do it in
49:08
So they don't uh just do it in
49:10
a hundred thousands, they do it in millions.
49:10
100,000, they do it in millions.
49:12
And uh, you know, it's uh it's sad,
49:12
And uh, you know, it's uh it's sad,
49:15
but it's a reality that it exists.
49:15
but it's a reality that it exists.
49:17
You know, I always said you maybe won't
49:17
You know, I always said you maybe won't
49:19
be able to defeat them, but you could
49:20
be able to defeat them, but you could
49:21
pull the teeth out of the dragon, but
49:22
pull the teeth out of the dragon, but
49:23
uh uh it seems like this particular dragon
49:24
uh uh it seems like this particular dragon
49:25
is not gonna change its uh colors, it
49:26
is not gonna change its uh colors, it
49:27
will continue uh as
49:28
will continue uh as it has been in
49:31
the past to include uh even the Falong
49:33
Gong members, which you are one of uh
49:35
even in the organ harvesting process where they
49:37
actually cut out organs out of live human
49:39
beings.
49:42
Um you know, it's uh it's a reality
49:45
of who these individuals are, and uh, you
49:48
know, they celebrated unfortunately their 100th anniversary.
49:52
Um, and uh and that hundred years uh
49:54
almost 50 million plus killed uh by their
49:56
hands.
49:59
It's it's sad, but it's a reality.
50:01
And for those who really want to kind
50:03
of understand what they're able to do, uh
50:06
there's an English version of the nine uh
50:08
uh commentaries on the communist party, and if
50:11
you you get a chance, please take a
50:13
look at it.
50:16
And uh it's uh it's sad, but they've
50:19
actually done it their own people and they've
50:21
taught the Iranians well too uh in this
50:24
particular process, which actually is uh not a
50:26
segment that is very evil um when it
50:28
comes to what it does to its own
50:31
people, uh you know, some would say.
50:34
Um it it just I don't understand why
50:37
it's been so hard and difficult uh for
50:39
uh any administration, and I hope before President
50:42
Trump leaves uh stage left, he can at
50:45
least say, you know, Taiwan is an independent
50:48
nation.
50:50
Uh and uh as such, it's uh a
50:52
nation of the world communities and has a
50:54
right to defend itself, and we recognize it
50:57
for what it is and an intended independent
50:59
nation.
51:01
The Kumatang were our folks uh that supported
51:03
us for years.
51:06
Um why is that such a big issue?
51:09
Do you think that if he US just
51:12
mentions that uh in this administration, that is
51:15
it gonna do what?
51:18
Uh make what difficult for us with China.
51:21
I mean, we already have difficulties with them
51:22
anyway.
51:24
I mean, I don't think we're gonna lose
51:25
uh leverage over them, but uh there's a
51:27
lot of advisors out there who say you
51:29
don't want to get to that point.
51:31
Would that point cause uh major conflict uh
51:34
with uh with us and uh China or
51:36
would it actually help us in finally defeating
51:38
the uh CCP?
51:42
I I don't think uh China or the
51:46
CCP has the ability to actually do much.
51:51
Let's not say anything.
51:53
Their military power, like you said, that it
51:57
it's is exposed by the uh Venezuela situation,
52:01
the Madura's arrest, and of course in Iran,
52:05
their defense system is totally useless in front
52:09
of America uh the America military.
52:13
I want also to address that actually it
52:16
is not that easy to take down the
52:18
CCP, not as easy as we imagine.
52:21
The Chinese people are already fed up by
52:24
the CCP, and including a lot of Chinese
52:27
officials are fed up by the CCP.
52:31
So if we find a way, for example,
52:34
really tear down their great file wallet, all
52:37
the Chinese people can have free access to
52:41
free information and can have a free platform
52:44
where they can organize themselves freely, or if
52:47
even if they can be offered some weapons.
52:51
So maybe it is even easier for the
52:55
CCP regime to collapse than for the Iranian
52:58
regime to collapse.
53:02
That is my honest estimation.
53:05
So just try to find ways to help
53:09
the Chinese people to stand up against the
53:13
CCP and the CCP, maybe it can collapse.
53:17
In overnight, it could be much easier than
53:19
we imagine.
53:22
No, it could be, and I think if
53:24
uh um people inside know that they can
53:26
organize and show will against the government, it's
53:29
be very difficult for that government to be
53:31
able to sustain itself, especially in the weak
53:33
position that J is in today.
53:36
So this might be our best opportunity, uh,
53:38
but uh we'll see.
53:40
Um, you know, whether or not uh the
53:42
current administration, the current protest is gonna take
53:44
that uh chance.
53:46
Um and if the advisors are willing to
53:48
at least tell them simple statement of saying
53:50
that you know Taiwan is an independent nation,
53:53
uh, is amongst the nations of the uh
53:55
world and the UN and has to be
53:57
recognized as such as a right to defend
54:00
itself if need be.
54:02
And we'll leave it at that.
54:04
Uh but uh I do want to thank
54:06
you uh Jen for being on the show.
54:08
I I wish we had more time.
54:09
Uh you know, we've been trying to set
54:11
this up for a while, but uh, you
54:13
know, the issue's been on my end uh
54:15
with uh um having uh so many other
54:17
topics that we had to cover, but I'm
54:19
glad uh we had you here to really
54:21
take a look at and do a little
54:23
bit of a deep dive on uh where
54:25
we are when it comes to China.
54:27
I do want to remind our audiences out
54:29
there that you can find out more about
54:30
this show and go at all of uh
54:32
podcasts.
54:33
If you go to the menu navigation bar
54:35
at the uh American Outlaw Doc Toncom under
54:37
our show and schedule, you will be in
54:39
the know.
54:42
Um and uh again, my discussion today was
54:44
with Jennifer Zhang, a senior advisory board member
54:47
serving as a director of the China's governmental
54:49
and societal affairs for the Near East Center
54:51
for Strategic Engagement.
54:54
Uh Jen is a member of the International
54:56
Press Association, a writer-reporter, and also a contributor
54:58
to Japan Forward.
55:01
She also has produced videos and raised stories
55:03
and commentaries uh that share her insight on
55:06
current affairs as well as personal experiences and
55:09
for more than two decades has worked to
55:12
expose the laws behind the CCP.
55:15
Uh and uh um her uh her work
55:18
and awards and international essays uh and competition
55:21
have been published in respected outlets such as
55:24
a diplomat.
55:28
Uh Jen, uh before we sign off, um
55:30
your last thoughts and uh where can people
55:32
find out more about uh what you've been
55:34
working on?
55:37
Yeah, like you said, uh my website is
55:40
Jennifer Zumblock.com.
55:43
My ex-account, which I posted the most frequently,
55:46
is Jennifer Zheng 97.
55:50
Jennifer Zhen.
55:52
And uh my YouTube channel, uh, my new
55:55
one is called the inconvenience tools.
55:58
Jennifer Zheng Reports.
56:00
So you can search for this.
56:00
So you can search for this.
56:02
I'm doing very frequent uh updates, especially on
56:02
I'm doing very frequent uh updates, especially on
56:05
X uh platform uh for all the the
56:06
X uh platform uh for all the the
56:09
major news happening in China.
56:10
major news happening in China and uh especially
56:12
And uh especially about the US China relationships.
56:14
about the US China relationships.
56:19
Now much appreciated, Jen, as always.
56:19
Now much appreciated, Jen, as always.
56:21
Um and you do a yeoman's work.
56:21
Um and you do a yeoman's work.
56:23
I mean, thank you, and I want to
56:23
I want to thank you, and I want
56:24
thank our audiences for joining us on this
56:24
to thank our audiences for joining us on
56:25
mission.
56:25
this mission.
56:27
The National Security Hour is a title of
56:27
The National Security Hour is a tip of
56:28
the spear and
56:28
the spear in the epic battle to defend
56:30
the United States of America with liberty and
56:32
justice for all.
56:34
I'm your host, Colonel Sorge Sanger, U.S.
56:37
Army Retired CEO of the Near East Center
56:38
for Strategic Engagement, and we will see you
56:40
all next week.
56:42
God bless all the