Latest / The Favorites Sports Betting Podcast / Robert Mays Talks NFL, Grantland and More

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Robert Mays Talks NFL, Grantland and More · The Favorites Sports Betting Podcast

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Favorites of the podcast presented by BET
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: three six five. We are part of the Action Network.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: I'm Chad Milman, chief Content Officer of the Action Network.
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Joining me on this very special podcast is my co host,
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: my companion, my compadre, my BFF professional better Sigmon Hunter.
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: Hello.
• 0:31
  Speaker 3: So, I man, I think it must be the only
• 0:34
  Speaker 3: weekend in my life, Chad.
• 0:35
  Speaker 4: I wish I was Chad Milman because I lost a
• 0:38
  Speaker 4: ton of money back in Dallas and I should have
• 0:40
  Speaker 4: listened to my friend here Chad and a bunch of
• 0:42
  Speaker 4: professional betters. But yeah, like, I still think my thought
• 0:46
  Speaker 4: process is right, right, don't. I mean, Luca showed up,
• 0:50
  Speaker 4: but unfortunately Kyrie did not. So yeah, Chad, you nailed it.
• 0:54
  Speaker 4: Like They're just a more complete team right now, and
• 0:56
  Speaker 4: I'm killing myself. I propped up Drew Holliday. Guess who
• 0:59
  Speaker 4: don't put any type of MVP bet Andrew Holly. This
• 1:02
  Speaker 4: guy so typical talk of guy up to no one's
• 1:04
  Speaker 4: talking about. He shows out and didn't put money on.
• 1:07
  Speaker 4: But great call.
• 1:08
  Speaker 3: I mean, I'm a sick in the head. I'm backing.
• 1:11
  Speaker 3: I saw a guy Hardwood proxy put out. Uh you
• 1:14
  Speaker 3: know what was it.
• 1:15
  Speaker 4: They're the team in this position that's zero to two.
• 1:17
  Speaker 4: Now back home is six and oh. The last six
• 1:20
  Speaker 4: times in the spot went in straight up. So I'm sickly.
• 1:23
  Speaker 4: I'm at the bet Dallas again, three three games in
• 1:27
  Speaker 4: a row. But yeah, Chad, not not not a bad
• 1:30
  Speaker 4: start for you being two and oh in your finals pick.
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, look, that just felt like a no brainer. We
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: got five guys on the Celtics who would be no
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: worse than the third best on any team. You got
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: two guys in the MAVs, and everyone else is replaceable.
• 1:48
  Speaker 3: And they looked at they looked at in Boston, that's
• 1:50
  Speaker 3: for sure.
• 1:51
  Speaker 5: We'll see how they.
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: Look everyone else. It's funny you mentioned Drew Holliday. So
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: a buddy of mine I was texting with him bought
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: Drew Holliday one hundred and forty to one to win
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: MVV and the debate in my house right now has
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: been and he was trying to figure out should he
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: take the cash out offer because it's a pretty good
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: offer right now, and probably would he did. He did
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: take the cash out offer because the truth is, I
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: was talking to my kid last night about this.
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: Tatum is practically.
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: Averaging a triple double, and I think what's going to
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: happen is what's going to happen is the MAVs will
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: go and win Game three, the Celtics will win Game four,
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: they'll go home win Game five.
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: It'll be a gentleman's sweep.
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: And in one of those games, Tatum is going to
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: go off, and when he does, that's going to be
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: what secures the MVP for Tatum because he's playing it
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: like an elite level that you don't really notice right
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: now when he has that one game, when he goes off.
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: All of a sudden, you'll be like, oh, yeah, this
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: guy's the MVP.
• 2:51
  Speaker 4: So Tatum's curse is he's not allowed personality, right, isn't
• 2:55
  Speaker 4: At the end of the day, that's his curse. If
• 2:56
  Speaker 4: he if he was out there proclaiming like if he was,
• 2:59
  Speaker 4: if he was you know, any other athlete in the
• 3:02
  Speaker 4: NBA that we've seen before him where it's like, you know,
• 3:05
  Speaker 4: I'm the greatest, I'm God's gift to the world, people
• 3:07
  Speaker 4: would be talking about him. But he's just not that
• 3:09
  Speaker 4: personality type. So yeah, it's a disservice to him. But yeah,
• 3:12
  Speaker 4: once again, Schad, you're nailing it right. Now, so I
• 3:15
  Speaker 4: want to I want to disagree with everything you just said,
• 3:16
  Speaker 4: like I can't because you are you are winning.
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: You're winning right now.
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: Well you're bringing me flowers, and I appreciate that, Simon.
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: Today we are joined by one of the most popular
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: voices in NFL media, host of the wildly popular podcast
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: The Athletic Football Show. Look, he've been doing this for many,
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: many years as a writer, as an analyst, as a podcaster.
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, one of the best in the biz. Robert May's welcome.
• 3:46
  Speaker 5: Brother's incredible introduction.
• 3:49
  Speaker 6: I don't think I live up to any of those things,
• 3:51
  Speaker 6: but I really appreciate it. I mean, the only thing
• 3:53
  Speaker 6: that's objectively true is that I have been doing this
• 3:56
  Speaker 6: for what seems like a long time now. Sometimes I
• 3:59
  Speaker 6: forget that, but we're going on like twelve or thirteen years,
• 4:02
  Speaker 6: and that is a huge chunk of my life.
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: So well, look overlapped back in the ESPN Grantland days,
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: and I do think it'd be interesting, Like Grantlin was
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: such a was like a moment that everyone that were
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: fans was really excited about.
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: So much great talent came out of Grantline.
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: Describe a little bit for people like what it was like.
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: For those who don't know, Grantlin was a Bill Simmons
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: started sports focused website, sports and pop culture website within
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: the ESPN ecosystem, and then when he left, he ultimately
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: started The Ringer, which sort of was the next step
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: of that.
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: Robert you started at Grantland. Tell people what it was
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: like then.
• 4:46
  Speaker 6: I was the first person hired to work there, which
• 4:48
  Speaker 6: is crazy to think about, but it is true. And
• 4:50
  Speaker 6: so I arrived there in March of twenty eleven and
• 4:53
  Speaker 6: there's no one else in the office. And then Lane Brown,
• 4:56
  Speaker 6: who was eventually our culture editor at Grantland, came and
• 5:00
  Speaker 6: just me and him in the office, and so there
• 5:02
  Speaker 6: was only three or four of us there for the
• 5:04
  Speaker 6: first month or so, and we would just kind of
• 5:06
  Speaker 6: sit in Bill's office and just talk about what we
• 5:09
  Speaker 6: wanted the site to be, which is insane. I mean,
• 5:12
  Speaker 6: just to think back on kind of the content of
• 5:14
  Speaker 6: those conversations and how creative it all felt and how
• 5:17
  Speaker 6: free it all felt. It was a really special experience
• 5:21
  Speaker 6: for somebody who was twenty three years old and doing
• 5:23
  Speaker 6: his first job in media to just be able to
• 5:26
  Speaker 6: kind of sit in and feel the growth of it
• 5:29
  Speaker 6: and kind of be at the genesis of it all,
• 5:31
  Speaker 6: and that's true on the written side. And then I
• 5:33
  Speaker 6: mean Javi Jacobi when I was twenty three came to
• 5:37
  Speaker 6: me and was like, do you want to do a podcast,
• 5:38
  Speaker 6: because that's how podcasts were handed out in twenty eleven,
• 5:41
  Speaker 6: and I was like, yeah, I do want to do
• 5:43
  Speaker 6: a podcast.
• 5:44
  Speaker 5: That sounds great.
• 5:45
  Speaker 6: And I've been doing a podcast now for the last
• 5:47
  Speaker 6: fourteen years and watching the podcast business grow and watching
• 5:51
  Speaker 6: kind of the trailblazing elements that we did there. I
• 5:53
  Speaker 6: mean guys that are famous now, like super famous, like
• 5:56
  Speaker 6: the No Dunks guys were on the Grantline podcast network,
• 6:00
  Speaker 6: men in Blazers was on the Grantline podcast network, and
• 6:03
  Speaker 6: just to I kind of have the perspective we have
• 6:04
  Speaker 6: about what it looked like then and what it looks
• 6:06
  Speaker 6: like now. It's a it's a special set of experiences.
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: I can say that it is a wild time not
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: to get media geeked out for a second, but I
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: bet a lot of people can remember when places like
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: dead Spin started in the early two thousands, and it
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: was the first iteration of snarky media blogs that were
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: covering sports in a different way or covering fashion in
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: a different way, covering.
• 6:33
  Speaker 3: The onion to the onion too.
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: The onion, Oh my god, it was fantastic, And like,
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: that's what when you talk about podcasting, that's what it
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: feels like now, Like that era of twenty eleven, Bill
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: had been doing his pod for a few years and
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: he was further ahead than anybody on sort of the
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: idea of what podcasting could be.
• 6:56
  Speaker 4: And then Billy was years and years ahead, right, I
• 6:59
  Speaker 4: mean he was way ahead sports.
• 7:00
  Speaker 6: Oh yeah, it was him and Maren at that point.
• 7:02
  Speaker 6: I think we're kind of like trailblazers in their own
• 7:04
  Speaker 6: right and there and.
• 7:05
  Speaker 4: Somehow Jim Rome still was like big then even in
• 7:08
  Speaker 4: the podcast the world, like Jim Rome was early too.
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: I remember, that's right, that's totally right.
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: And now you look at the podcast business, it's so
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: hyper competitive.
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: It's so hard to get started.
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: I can't tell you how many times I've interviewed someone
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: and they will say to me, oh, by the way,
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: I got a podcast. I'm like, everyone's got a fucking podcast.
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: It's like, how do you see that? How do you
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: see the competition? How have you seen it grow in
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: a way that all of a sudden it's professionalized, and
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: you're like, man, thank god I started when I did.
• 7:43
  Speaker 6: I feel lucky because of that. And I think that
• 7:46
  Speaker 6: even starting a show four years ago, which we did,
• 7:48
  Speaker 6: and then the Athletic Football Show is only four years old,
• 7:51
  Speaker 6: and so we joined an incredibly crowded landscape and we
• 7:54
  Speaker 6: launched that show. And I think the thing I learned
• 7:57
  Speaker 6: from Grantland. I think one of the things that sat
• 7:58
  Speaker 6: Gruntland apart even from places like That's been and other
• 8:02
  Speaker 6: kind of behemoths of digital media at that time, is
• 8:04
  Speaker 6: that there's a real earnestness to what we did. And
• 8:07
  Speaker 6: it was the whole purpose and kind of idea and
• 8:10
  Speaker 6: attitude behind the enterprise was we wanted to feel like
• 8:14
  Speaker 6: a place where you were hanging out with your smartest
• 8:15
  Speaker 6: friends about a certain topic. There was a level of
• 8:18
  Speaker 6: enthusiasm and engagement that felt real, It felt genuine, and
• 8:22
  Speaker 6: I think that I've always tried to put that back
• 8:24
  Speaker 6: into my work no matter where I've been working. You know,
• 8:26
  Speaker 6: you wanted to feel like something that is driven by
• 8:28
  Speaker 6: your own enthusiasm and curiosity for a certain topic. And
• 8:32
  Speaker 6: for the most part, that's how we've programmed and built
• 8:34
  Speaker 6: the Athletic Football Show over the last four years, and
• 8:36
  Speaker 6: we've been lucky enough that even in a crowded landscape,
• 8:39
  Speaker 6: we've been able to find a little sliver of an
• 8:41
  Speaker 6: audience because I think at a certain point people do
• 8:43
  Speaker 6: want to engage with the things they love on those terms.
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: Well, look, we're going to dig into topics we're enthusiastic
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: about football, analyzing football, how to make opportunities out of
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: our football knowledge. As a reminder of the Favorites podcast
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: is presented by BED three six five.
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• 9:51
  Speaker 2: All right, Robert, we were all over.
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: The weekend trading messages about the interview you had with
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: former Patriots Bill's running back from of Bill's running back,
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: Damien Harris. The dude was awesome, and kudos to you
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: for not sort of pulling back on questions about Belichick,
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: questions about Brady, questions about the locker room Mac Jones.
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: I want to dig into a lot of those topics.
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: I know Simon does too. To me, the standout moments
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: for that were Belichick's egotism, which I didn't think I
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: could find a way to contextualize it being any more
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: than it was. And yet Damien Harris did that explain
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: a little bit about what he told you for people
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: who might not have heard that.
• 10:50
  Speaker 6: Yeah, I think that the best manifestation of that, or
• 10:53
  Speaker 6: the most interesting manifestation of that, is the idea that
• 10:55
  Speaker 6: anybody could have called plays within that ecosystem that they
• 10:59
  Speaker 6: had built anwing that it didn't really matter if that
• 11:01
  Speaker 6: person had experience as an offensive coordinator or not, because
• 11:05
  Speaker 6: you were living and coaching under this Bill Belichick umbrella.
• 11:08
  Speaker 5: It was going to work, and it was going to
• 11:09
  Speaker 5: be fine.
• 11:09
  Speaker 6: They were going to trot out the same model and
• 11:12
  Speaker 6: the same ideas they have for years, Tom Brady or
• 11:14
  Speaker 6: no Tom Brady, and it was going to work because
• 11:17
  Speaker 6: it had worked for two decades. And anybody who has
• 11:20
  Speaker 6: watched the New England Patriots offense over the last three
• 11:23
  Speaker 6: or four years, I think can attest to the fact
• 11:24
  Speaker 6: that that is not true. And I think that the
• 11:27
  Speaker 6: level of hubris that has to go into giving an
• 11:31
  Speaker 6: offensive coordinator job to someone who has never coached offense
• 11:34
  Speaker 6: in the NFL and thinking this is the right way
• 11:38
  Speaker 6: to raise and develop our second year quarterback who we
• 11:42
  Speaker 6: took with a fifteenth overall pick.
• 11:44
  Speaker 5: Pride comes before the fall in a pretty big way.
• 11:46
  Speaker 5: With that one.
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: Little context, So it was.
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: Mac Jones last year, second year Matt Patricia Joe Judge,
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: special teams coach, defensive coordinator, respectively. Years before for the Patriots,
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: they took over the play calling. Tell people a little
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: bit about what Damien Harris said about mac Jones in
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: year one versus mac Jones in year.
• 12:14
  Speaker 6: Two the biggest difference. And when I was asking him
• 12:17
  Speaker 6: about that Patricia Judge experience and what felt like was
• 12:21
  Speaker 6: missing from that compared to a well run NFL offense,
• 12:24
  Speaker 6: he just said that there was no foundation of a system.
• 12:27
  Speaker 6: There was nothing that they could really lean on. They
• 12:29
  Speaker 6: kind of just picked plays at random that they seemed
• 12:32
  Speaker 6: to like and that was what the offense consisted of.
• 12:35
  Speaker 6: And I was like, well, why wouldn't they just do
• 12:37
  Speaker 6: what they did with McDaniels the year before, right, Like,
• 12:40
  Speaker 6: it doesn't seem that hard, even if you're going to
• 12:42
  Speaker 6: run into blind spots to kind of play copy and
• 12:45
  Speaker 6: paste with an offense that to a certain extent worked
• 12:48
  Speaker 6: pretty well for mac Jones. And his thought was, and
• 12:51
  Speaker 6: his theory was that in this petty filled move, they
• 12:55
  Speaker 6: didn't want to carry over huge portions of the offense
• 12:58
  Speaker 6: and they even renamed certain concepts because they wanted ownership
• 13:03
  Speaker 6: over what was going on and they didn't want it
• 13:05
  Speaker 6: to feel like they were carrying over the stuff that
• 13:07
  Speaker 6: Josh McDaniels had done from the year before, which.
• 13:09
  Speaker 5: That to me was wild.
• 13:11
  Speaker 6: When he said that, I just sat there and kind
• 13:13
  Speaker 6: of shook my head because that's just a level of
• 13:15
  Speaker 6: self sabotage that feels totally unnecessary.
• 13:20
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and I think just to your point too, where
• 13:22
  Speaker 4: that's the biggest issue to me, where it's like, apparently
• 13:25
  Speaker 4: Josh McDaniels is the one that protected him, like Mac
• 13:27
  Speaker 4: Jones from Belichick, and when he left, I think that
• 13:31
  Speaker 4: left the void, right because now he didn't really have
• 13:33
  Speaker 4: anyone that had his back, right, the guy whould push
• 13:35
  Speaker 4: him up his rookiear was gone, and that played out.
• 13:37
  Speaker 4: I mean, we talked about it. He just looked mentally different,
• 13:40
  Speaker 4: broken the next year. But I think what you're saying
• 13:43
  Speaker 4: now she has more light on that. I thought he
• 13:44
  Speaker 4: was just broke mentally. I mean, apparently there was just
• 13:47
  Speaker 4: no coaching like he had. Literally no one was stepping
• 13:49
  Speaker 4: in and putting him into the best position. So yeah,
• 13:52
  Speaker 4: for guys like Mac Jones, we're talking about, you know,
• 13:55
  Speaker 4: players that in your view, we were talking about guys
• 13:58
  Speaker 4: who who could excel out system because it feels like
• 14:01
  Speaker 4: an NFL it's so important that you land with the
• 14:04
  Speaker 4: right coaches. As much as you want to say Mahomes
• 14:06
  Speaker 4: would have won multiple Super Bowls with the Bears.
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: What do you have without Andy Reid? Like that's a
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: big deal.
• 14:12
  Speaker 4: Andy Reid, we all talked about, is maybe the second
• 14:14
  Speaker 4: or third best coach ever in football history. So you know,
• 14:17
  Speaker 4: me and Shadow with our small list, the only quarterback
• 14:20
  Speaker 4: we could really think of personally was Mike Vick. Like
• 14:23
  Speaker 4: Mike Vick historically didn't watch film. He didn't know an offense, right,
• 14:27
  Speaker 4: he didn't even know what cover two was until he
• 14:29
  Speaker 4: got out of jail was with Andy Reid on the Eagles.
• 14:31
  Speaker 4: So clearly, Mike Vick never learned an offensive Virginia Tech
• 14:35
  Speaker 4: and did not learn an offense in Atlanta and was
• 14:38
  Speaker 4: literally on the cover of Madden. This man was the
• 14:40
  Speaker 4: biggest superstar in the world. I mean, if you're you know,
• 14:42
  Speaker 4: you in your early twenties, you don't understand Mike Vick
• 14:45
  Speaker 4: was Lamar Jackson for Lamar Jackson. I mean, Lamar Jackson's
• 14:48
  Speaker 4: gone far above with Mike Vick ever could have been.
• 14:49
  Speaker 4: But in your mind, is there even a player like
• 14:52
  Speaker 4: that that, like, you know.
• 14:53
  Speaker 3: It doesn't matter.
• 14:54
  Speaker 4: The system is Lamar and Vick the only guys we
• 14:56
  Speaker 4: could really think of that they don't need a system
• 14:57
  Speaker 4: they would work anyway.
• 14:59
  Speaker 6: Two guys I would to that I think were failed
• 15:01
  Speaker 6: on a couple different fronts, whether it's the personnel that
• 15:03
  Speaker 6: was put around them or the offense that they were
• 15:05
  Speaker 6: dropped into that I think had pretty remarkable NFL careers
• 15:08
  Speaker 6: even considering that would be Cam Newton and Andrew Luck.
• 15:12
  Speaker 6: Cam Newton, that offense, certain elements of it were built
• 15:15
  Speaker 6: around him, the running game, but he was a huge
• 15:17
  Speaker 6: driver of what made that the best running game in
• 15:19
  Speaker 6: football in Carolina. You think about the pass catchers that
• 15:22
  Speaker 6: they put him with, I mean some of the names
• 15:24
  Speaker 6: when he won the MVP, I can't even remember who
• 15:26
  Speaker 6: the starting wide receivers were on those teams in a
• 15:28
  Speaker 6: post Steve Smith world, and he was still arguably the
• 15:32
  Speaker 6: best quarterback.
• 15:32
  Speaker 5: In football for a year or two.
• 15:34
  Speaker 6: And then the situation that Andrew Luck was dropped into
• 15:36
  Speaker 6: in twenty twelve, I mean, the offensive line was an
• 15:39
  Speaker 6: absolute mess, and God blessed Brusarians and the way that
• 15:42
  Speaker 6: that offense works. But that was a downfield, pushit vertical
• 15:45
  Speaker 6: sort of offense. And when you don't have the guys
• 15:48
  Speaker 6: that can hold up when you're holding out of the
• 15:49
  Speaker 6: ball for that long.
• 15:50
  Speaker 5: You just get absolutely destroyed.
• 15:52
  Speaker 6: And Andrew Luck out wrecked for multiple years, and he was
• 15:55
  Speaker 6: still somebody that when you watched him play in shitty circumstances,
• 16:00
  Speaker 6: he was undeniable.
• 16:01
  Speaker 5: I mean, he was undeniable.
• 16:03
  Speaker 6: And so I think that's those guys, the guys who,
• 16:05
  Speaker 6: even when there's not the best stuff happening around them,
• 16:07
  Speaker 6: their talent is undeniable. And I think what we've learned
• 16:10
  Speaker 6: over the last decade two decades is that that list
• 16:12
  Speaker 6: is always going to be smaller than you wanted to be,
• 16:14
  Speaker 6: even with guys who were drafted in the top five.
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: Then there's a guy like Alex Smith.
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: He's always been a fascinating story to me because he
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: was a number one pick overall and the expectations on
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: him obviously were going to be huge, and every single
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: place that he went, he even he outperformed what was
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: his skill set and made that team a winning team.
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: So how does a guy like Alex Smith become what
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: he became when guys who are significantly more talented can't
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: get over the hump with the same disadvantages.
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: You know who coach Alex Smith? He went from Harbor
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: to Andy Reid.
• 16:57
  Speaker 6: Yeah, Well, at first it was I mean the two
• 16:59
  Speaker 6: thousand and five I can't even remember who the head
• 17:01
  Speaker 6: coach he was.
• 17:03
  Speaker 5: I think it might have been the end of Mary Euccie.
• 17:04
  Speaker 5: I think I might.
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: Remember either who passed on Aaron Rodgers that.
• 17:08
  Speaker 6: I think Mike McCarthy was the offensive coordinator for that
• 17:11
  Speaker 6: team in two thousand and five in San Francisco, if
• 17:13
  Speaker 6: I'm not If I'm not mistaken, but it was he
• 17:16
  Speaker 6: Alex Horrible.
• 17:18
  Speaker 5: He was talking horrible circumstances early in his career.
• 17:21
  Speaker 6: But I actually had a conversation about this with the
• 17:23
  Speaker 6: head coach recently, and I was asking him about why
• 17:26
  Speaker 6: some guys are able to kind of overcome terrible circumstances
• 17:30
  Speaker 6: early in their career, why some guys aren't.
• 17:32
  Speaker 5: We were talking about Will Levis last.
• 17:33
  Speaker 6: Year and how Will Levis was just hid a terrible
• 17:35
  Speaker 6: offensive line, no one to throw the ball to, you know,
• 17:38
  Speaker 6: an offensive staff that just was not up to stuff
• 17:40
  Speaker 6: and he played half the season. And you know, is
• 17:43
  Speaker 6: that something where scar tissue can develop, It becomes a
• 17:46
  Speaker 6: negative for a player. And the coach I was talking
• 17:49
  Speaker 6: to said, it's about the mental toughness of the guy
• 17:51
  Speaker 6: that you're working with and whether or not the stuff
• 17:54
  Speaker 6: that happens to that guy when things aren't going well
• 17:57
  Speaker 6: are things that are going to last. And we were
• 17:59
  Speaker 6: talking about Joe bur specifically, because Burrow is somebody that
• 18:02
  Speaker 6: offensive line was horrendous, you know, his first couple of
• 18:05
  Speaker 6: years in Cincinnati, and there was no Jamar Chas in
• 18:07
  Speaker 6: year one. Obviously, that season ends when he tears his
• 18:09
  Speaker 6: acl but even before that, things weren't going great. But
• 18:13
  Speaker 6: because of the way that Joe Burrow is wired, he's
• 18:15
  Speaker 6: able to come out on the other side of that
• 18:18
  Speaker 6: unscathed in a way that might be a little bit
• 18:20
  Speaker 6: more difficult for some guys. And that's not a great
• 18:23
  Speaker 6: answer because that's hard to identify which guys are able
• 18:26
  Speaker 6: to endure that and which guys aren't. But I think
• 18:28
  Speaker 6: sometimes it comes down to those intelligible intangible aspects when
• 18:32
  Speaker 6: you're trying to figure it out.
• 18:34
  Speaker 4: Joe Burrow's mind might survive it his body so far
• 18:37
  Speaker 4: as not. And that's I think that's a great point
• 18:39
  Speaker 4: you just touched on, where it's like that that's a
• 18:42
  Speaker 4: real issue, and like when I think about that all
• 18:44
  Speaker 4: the time we talk about these quarterbacks.
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: Sorry to cut you off, Jed, well, no, but I
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: thought Robert's point about mental toughness. Alex Smith, Yeah personified that, right.
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: I mean, look at what the guy came back from
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: after that leg injury.
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: Robert, you probably remember this.
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: Our mutual friend Seth Wickersham, probably in twenty thirteen, twenty fourteen,
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: whatever it was, wrote this great story for ESPN the
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: magazine about Alex Smith fighting through his shoulder injury, how
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: he was sleeping upright, and the rehab to come back
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: from it. Like those things are You're right, they are intangibles.
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: I would be curious.
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: I don't know, Robert, if you've ever heard quarterback coaches
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: or coaches or coordinators or gms talk about this, how
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: are they identifying that?
• 19:32
  Speaker 5: It's a great question.
• 19:34
  Speaker 6: I mean, I think that there's obviously certain personality test
• 19:36
  Speaker 6: that guys take now, but I think.
• 19:39
  Speaker 5: It's a lot that does it. I don't think that
• 19:41
  Speaker 5: does either.
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: I think it's not until you've seen it.
• 19:44
  Speaker 5: And I think that's why I think two things.
• 19:47
  Speaker 6: And sometimes this is funny when as an analyst you
• 19:50
  Speaker 6: kind of go through your own life span, and you know,
• 19:52
  Speaker 6: when you're young, you kind of go on these more
• 19:56
  Speaker 6: narrative driven ideas, like that guy's a winner. And that
• 19:59
  Speaker 6: guy's this and that guy that because you don't know
• 20:00
  Speaker 6: any better. And then in my twenties and early thirties,
• 20:04
  Speaker 6: you want to be more analytically driven, you want to
• 20:06
  Speaker 6: be statistically driven, you want it to be rooted in
• 20:08
  Speaker 6: certain things.
• 20:09
  Speaker 5: And now that I'm getting older.
• 20:11
  Speaker 6: I kind of hear my dad's voice in the back
• 20:13
  Speaker 6: of my head when I'm thinking about players, where it's like, Eh,
• 20:15
  Speaker 6: that guy ain't got it, or that guy, Yeah, that
• 20:17
  Speaker 6: guy's got it. And I think with quarterbacks that's why
• 20:20
  Speaker 6: some of the stuff that coaches or scouts would say
• 20:23
  Speaker 6: about like, Oh, he's done it on the biggest stage,
• 20:25
  Speaker 6: he did it this way. I used to roll my
• 20:27
  Speaker 6: eyes a stuff like that when I was younger, but
• 20:29
  Speaker 6: now I think I've kind of seen the light about
• 20:31
  Speaker 6: how important it is. And I think there are two
• 20:33
  Speaker 6: fronts with guys in college coming into the NFL. Did
• 20:36
  Speaker 6: he do it in the biggest games in those moments?
• 20:38
  Speaker 6: How did he play? You think about how CJ. Stroud
• 20:40
  Speaker 6: looked in that game against Georgia and the College Football
• 20:43
  Speaker 6: Playoff and just what that looks like now in retrospect,
• 20:46
  Speaker 6: and we've seen what he is. And I think the
• 20:47
  Speaker 6: other side of it is what has he looked like
• 20:50
  Speaker 6: when things have gone poorly, you know, when he's had
• 20:53
  Speaker 6: to play behind a bad offensive line, when he's had
• 20:55
  Speaker 6: to play in an imperfect system, what has he looked like?
• 20:58
  Speaker 6: And that's honestly, one of the reasons I'm bullish on
• 21:01
  Speaker 6: Caleb Williams compared to some other guys that are drafted
• 21:03
  Speaker 6: number one overall is that we've seen him in a
• 21:06
  Speaker 6: really bad situation as recently as last year, and even
• 21:10
  Speaker 6: working through that, you can still see the glimpses of
• 21:13
  Speaker 6: what makes him special.
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: Since you brought him.
• 21:17
  Speaker 4: Up, I was gonna say, God, damn it, that was
• 21:23
  Speaker 4: waiting for it.
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: You know you're chicagoan. I'm Chicagoan. I've got significant feelings
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: about Caleb Williams. The other day, our friend darn Ravel
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: I don't know if he was being kind or if
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: he was trolling me. He texted me, you know, he's
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: in the memorabilia space now his new site collect and.
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: He texted me a link to an.
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: eBay auction for ticket stubs from the very first game
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: in which Sid Luckman through a touchdown pass and the
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: very last game in which Sid Luckman threw a touchdown pass.
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: The pair were going for thirty five bucks, and to
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: me it was indicative another reminder of how pathetically bad
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: the Bears quarterbacking has been since Sid Luckman retired seventy
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: four years ago. And you point out something about Caleb Williams.
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: And how did you make the bid?
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: You know what I was about to.
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: That's a good price.
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: Here's why I didn't do it, No joke I was about.
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: I was literally clicking on it. My buddy, who made
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: the Drew Holliday one hundred and forty to one MVP
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: called me because Drew Holliday was going off in the game,
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: and so we were talking about that, and then when
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: we got off the phone, I forgot about the bid
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: literally until this second.
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: I gotta go back to Ravel's text and see what
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: his price that now.
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: But the point is Calverd did this great interview with
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: Kayleb Williams when he had his pro day, and he
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: tried to get him to admit that he had a
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: terrible offensive line, and I was very impressed with how
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: Kayleb Williams dodged the question and just answered about his
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: ability to be mobile and the circumstance he was playing
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: under last year. So to your point, Robert, you know,
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: I don't know what you're thinking about Caleb overall, but
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: I was impressed with that answer and impressed that he
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: was recognizing he had to play under trying circumstances last year.
• 23:37
  Speaker 6: Absolutely, And I think that one of the things that's
• 23:39
  Speaker 6: jumped out to me since being exposed to him a
• 23:41
  Speaker 6: little bit more through interviews and just since he became
• 23:43
  Speaker 6: a pro and a bear specifically, is just how ready
• 23:46
  Speaker 6: he is for this moment in ways that guys aren't always.
• 23:50
  Speaker 5: He's been famous for a long time.
• 23:53
  Speaker 6: For a twenty one year old kid, and I think
• 23:55
  Speaker 6: that is kind of a downstream effect of what the
• 23:57
  Speaker 6: nil era has given us, is that these guys have money,
• 24:01
  Speaker 6: They can be on TV. You know, they have managers,
• 24:04
  Speaker 6: they have agents, and I think there's some negatives that
• 24:06
  Speaker 6: can come along with that, but I also think that
• 24:09
  Speaker 6: it's more time on task with what being a professional
• 24:11
  Speaker 6: looks like, sounds like, feels like. And when you watch
• 24:15
  Speaker 6: that guy in front of a microphone interacting with people,
• 24:17
  Speaker 6: he clearly has a better sense of that sort of
• 24:20
  Speaker 6: stuff than a lot of twenty one year old kids
• 24:22
  Speaker 6: who've never had to carry any of that before.
• 24:24
  Speaker 4: Now what's going to follow him his whole career, Which
• 24:26
  Speaker 4: I'd love to get your opinions since you've been around him,
• 24:28
  Speaker 4: is is this the number one love in his life?
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: All any great quarterback?
• 24:33
  Speaker 4: I mean Tom Brady was literally pointing at him when
• 24:36
  Speaker 4: he was saying, there's players who care more about their
• 24:38
  Speaker 4: name and their brand and the offield stuff than on
• 24:40
  Speaker 4: the field. And I know they took a lot of
• 24:43
  Speaker 4: you know, heat for that, and there's a whole thing
• 24:44
  Speaker 4: on it, but is it real? Is Williams from your experience,
• 24:48
  Speaker 4: is he like, no, this is all I care about,
• 24:50
  Speaker 4: Like all the other stuff, I could get rid of
• 24:51
  Speaker 4: it tomorrow as long as I saw a football. You
• 24:54
  Speaker 4: see him as kind of being on the fence like
• 24:56
  Speaker 4: he's got both feet at like you know, on each side,
• 24:58
  Speaker 4: where it's like he loves he loves the life, but
• 25:01
  Speaker 4: he loves football, which we've seen that doesn't work in football, right,
• 25:05
  Speaker 4: Like we've seen it. Like you want you got to
• 25:07
  Speaker 4: be a cycle, you got to be all in because
• 25:08
  Speaker 4: you know who's a psycho? Patrick Mahomes, like Lamar, Josh Allen,
• 25:12
  Speaker 4: all these guys, Joe Burrow, they're psychos.
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: This is all they care about.
• 25:16
  Speaker 4: So I would love to hear your view on Williams,
• 25:18
  Speaker 4: because this is what the haters are going to say
• 25:20
  Speaker 4: his whole career.
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: If he doesn't do well, they're like, ah, he cared
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: about the spotlight, Like you know, that's just the older
• 25:25
  Speaker 3: guy thing to say, right, So I'd love to hear
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: your take on that.
• 25:28
  Speaker 5: I would say two things.
• 25:29
  Speaker 6: One, it does feel like the football is important to
• 25:31
  Speaker 6: him and he wants to be really good. I mean,
• 25:33
  Speaker 6: everybody that has been around him and anybody that has
• 25:36
  Speaker 6: any proximity to him seems to think that's true. He's
• 25:38
  Speaker 6: a good teammate. That's the thing I'm most worried about.
• 25:40
  Speaker 6: Can you relate to the guys in the locker room.
• 25:41
  Speaker 6: Can you be somebody that can find common ground with
• 25:44
  Speaker 6: all fifty three of those guys? Can you be a
• 25:46
  Speaker 6: leader and meet guys where they are? Can you listen
• 25:49
  Speaker 6: when it's necessary? And he said all the right things
• 25:52
  Speaker 6: when it comes to every single aspect of that. On
• 25:54
  Speaker 6: the other side of it, I would implore people who
• 25:57
  Speaker 6: think that you have to be this football focus monster
• 26:01
  Speaker 6: to go google Tom Brady, met Gala and Joe Brady
• 26:05
  Speaker 6: or Joe Burrow, Michael Rubin, party just just go check
• 26:09
  Speaker 6: some of those things out, Like there are guys who
• 26:12
  Speaker 6: love the life and can still be attracted to and
• 26:16
  Speaker 6: engaged with football, Like it's not a twelve month a
• 26:18
  Speaker 6: year job. You can still have interest outside of the game.
• 26:21
  Speaker 6: I think that practice schedules, practice habits, you know, the
• 26:25
  Speaker 6: demands put on players. There's been a really nice middle
• 26:28
  Speaker 6: ground that's been found where it's not something that's going
• 26:30
  Speaker 6: to eat into every aspect and every outs of your life.
• 26:33
  Speaker 6: So I think it's okay to have some sort of
• 26:36
  Speaker 6: balance as long as you're putting yourself in positions to
• 26:38
  Speaker 6: consistently have a preparation advantage.
• 26:40
  Speaker 5: And I think it is possible to do both of
• 26:42
  Speaker 5: those things.
• 26:43
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• 26:46
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• 28:02
  Speaker 4: Ah, Yes, Oma Steaks. Thank Oma Staks. I got that
• 28:05
  Speaker 4: in the mail chat. It's really good, I mean really
• 28:08
  Speaker 4: good steaks.
• 28:09
  Speaker 3: Brother.
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: My freezer is so loaded with stuff from Omaha Steaks.
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: I had to start giving other food away, and I've
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: enjoyed all of it. Anybody who thinks that Caleb Williams
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: doesn't want to win or succeed did not watch him postgame,
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: crying in his mother's arms after I think it was
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: his last game or.
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: The Bowl game.
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: I was moved by it, and I know there was conversation.
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: You know that you don't want a quarterback who does that?
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: I do like I'm practically in the fetal position in
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: tears if Simon and I don't go at least three
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: and two in our contest every week, Like I want
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: someone who cares so much that they are going to
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: be moved to tears if it doesn't go well for them.
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: Why would that be a bad thing in any aspect
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: of life. Why was someone who is so passionate about
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: something that they are trying so hard they want us
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: to see so well that they get emotional about it.
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: That's amazing to me.
• 29:14
  Speaker 6: I think it's just about finding your path to discipline,
• 29:18
  Speaker 6: whatever that happens to be. You know, if you're Tom
• 29:20
  Speaker 6: Brady and you love the process, you love the actual
• 29:24
  Speaker 6: ritual of getting up in the morning, going about it
• 29:26
  Speaker 6: the same way every single day, every practice is as
• 29:29
  Speaker 6: if you were practicing for the Super Bowl, and that's
• 29:31
  Speaker 6: how you get out of bed in the morning, and
• 29:32
  Speaker 6: that's how you apply the same level of discipline to
• 29:34
  Speaker 6: the craft every day. That's one avenue. If Caleb Williams's
• 29:38
  Speaker 6: path is I want to be great, I want to
• 29:40
  Speaker 6: be remembered, I want to be special. But the end
• 29:43
  Speaker 6: result is the same. You still put in the same
• 29:45
  Speaker 6: amount of work. You still find discipline in the same way.
• 29:48
  Speaker 6: It just happens to be coming from a different Whether
• 29:50
  Speaker 6: it's internal or external motivation, extrinsic or instrinsic, it doesn't
• 29:54
  Speaker 6: really matter. I think that it's all about making sure
• 29:57
  Speaker 6: that you're putting in the work every single day, and
• 29:59
  Speaker 6: wherever that pasth comes from, it becomes immaterial at a
• 30:02
  Speaker 6: certain point.
• 30:03
  Speaker 4: Well, I hope it doesn't eat them alive, because it's
• 30:05
  Speaker 4: sitting there the mantle of I mean, we saw Derek Rose, right, Chicago,
• 30:09
  Speaker 4: they are dying for a guy like that, right, I
• 30:12
  Speaker 4: mean they just want that kind of guy, and he
• 30:14
  Speaker 4: has a personality for it, right. And Derek Rose, he
• 30:17
  Speaker 4: was a silent killer, but he was perfect for the city,
• 30:19
  Speaker 4: like everything about it, especially Chicago at that time. It
• 30:22
  Speaker 4: was those were really rough days in the city. He
• 30:24
  Speaker 4: kind of embodied the city that's been lacking in Chicago,
• 30:28
  Speaker 4: has been missing that. So like that's my thing with him.
• 30:31
  Speaker 4: It's like it's you couldn't have picked a better spot
• 30:34
  Speaker 4: for this guy. I mean, the way it all worked out,
• 30:36
  Speaker 4: where it's like they've been dying for a guy for
• 30:39
  Speaker 4: this their whole life. I mean, as an Egos fan,
• 30:41
  Speaker 4: we just had our first four thousand yard passer was
• 30:44
  Speaker 4: Carson Wentz.
• 30:45
  Speaker 3: I mean, look at that guy's career.
• 30:46
  Speaker 4: So it's like, as a suffering fan base, I get
• 30:49
  Speaker 4: Bears fans just they they've been dying for one and
• 30:52
  Speaker 4: it does feel like, I mean, just watching his tape
• 30:55
  Speaker 4: in these camps, you I mean, you haven't seen something
• 30:58
  Speaker 4: like this ever in Chicago. His throes is arm angles,
• 31:00
  Speaker 4: his footwork, it's all just like, oh my god, I
• 31:04
  Speaker 4: can't believe. And the way they set it up too,
• 31:06
  Speaker 4: all the pieces there. So I just wanted to put
• 31:08
  Speaker 4: that out there because that's everyone that's messages us, because
• 31:10
  Speaker 4: me and Chad talk way too much about him as is.
• 31:13
  Speaker 3: That's the thing they bring up every time.
• 31:15
  Speaker 4: They're just like, I don't think this kid Carris with
• 31:17
  Speaker 4: the most And my whole pushback is all these guys
• 31:20
  Speaker 4: have other interests. It's like, I'm not worried about him yet.
• 31:22
  Speaker 4: I might worry about him is year four, when he
• 31:25
  Speaker 4: has the weight of the world and they've had a
• 31:26
  Speaker 4: little big success. How will you be in these moments.
• 31:29
  Speaker 4: So just as a fan of good football, like he's
• 31:32
  Speaker 4: so good for our sport, and you know, I have
• 31:35
  Speaker 4: the highest hopes that he works out Chicago, just because
• 31:37
  Speaker 4: the city's never had that.
• 31:38
  Speaker 3: I mean, Sid Luckman, what year was that.
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: Chad nineteen thirty nine to nineteen fifty seven, So.
• 31:43
  Speaker 4: That's what I mean. We're that city. Dicko is a
• 31:46
  Speaker 4: lifetime ago. They've been dying for a guy in football
• 31:49
  Speaker 4: like this.
• 31:50
  Speaker 6: If he throws for four thousand yards and thirty touchdowns, ever,
• 31:54
  Speaker 6: it will be the greatest season in the history of
• 31:55
  Speaker 6: quarterbacking in Chicago. That's not an exaggeration.
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: It's not an exaggeration.
• 31:59
  Speaker 5: Great sooner he could do it pretty quickly.
• 32:01
  Speaker 6: And if you need any sort of hint about how
• 32:05
  Speaker 6: fast and how fervently the Chicago Bears fan base will
• 32:09
  Speaker 6: attach themselves to a quarterback, look no further than how
• 32:13
  Speaker 6: rabid that very small part of the Bears fan base
• 32:17
  Speaker 6: was about justin fields like two months ago, I mean,
• 32:20
  Speaker 6: that's it, and justin fields. If you look at every
• 32:22
  Speaker 6: single advanced metric, every single stat was a bottom third
• 32:25
  Speaker 6: of the league quarterback and pretty much everything, and he
• 32:28
  Speaker 6: had a very vocal section of Chicago Bears fans essentially
• 32:32
  Speaker 6: petitioning against the idea of trading him. So if Caleb
• 32:35
  Speaker 6: Williams is even a half decent quarterback that can provide
• 32:38
  Speaker 6: that fan base with a couple morsels of excitement, I
• 32:41
  Speaker 6: think that they'll win a He will win them over
• 32:44
  Speaker 6: pretty fast.
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: He throws one laser to Roma Dunza over the middle
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: of the field in the first game of the year
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: against the Tennessee Titans, Soldier Field is going to go bananas.
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: One good play is going to turn the postgame show
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: into a super Bowl like irrational celebration.
• 33:12
  Speaker 4: They should They should do the t O mcnabbo's first game,
• 33:15
  Speaker 4: I think might have a preseason they did a fake
• 33:17
  Speaker 4: hand off the Westbrook and then just threw a bomb
• 33:19
  Speaker 4: the t O and literally the whole link almost collapsed.
• 33:22
  Speaker 4: They should do that with the opening game with Williams.
• 33:24
  Speaker 4: They're just like you just said, I would explode big stadium.
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: But Robert, do you think like the Bears like to
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: bring it around. This is the last thing we need
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: to say about the Bears. But it's germane to this conversation,
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: and it's going to be a dominant theme for quarterbacking
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: and what it does in the NFL for the next
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: five years. Yeah, Can the quarterbacks be the Can the
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: Bears be the organization that can support grow a quarterback
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: with the talent like Kayleb Williams as we've been discussing, Yes,
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: I think they can be.
• 33:53
  Speaker 6: I think that they did not necessarily set themselves up
• 33:56
  Speaker 6: in the best way that they could have. I think
• 33:58
  Speaker 6: bringing back Eberflus and going with somebody like Shane Waldron,
• 34:00
  Speaker 6: who I think did a solid but unspectacular job in
• 34:03
  Speaker 6: Seattle is not the clearest path to properly developing a quarterback,
• 34:08
  Speaker 6: but I think it gives you a chance to So
• 34:10
  Speaker 6: I'm not sure I would have done what they did.
• 34:12
  Speaker 6: I think I might have started with the clean slate,
• 34:14
  Speaker 6: gone with an offense.
• 34:16
  Speaker 3: Year. Don't worry.
• 34:17
  Speaker 6: Well, that's That's also part of the problem, right, is
• 34:20
  Speaker 6: that we've played this game out so many times in Chicago,
• 34:23
  Speaker 6: where a previous regime drafts a quarterback, they fall short
• 34:27
  Speaker 6: in year one, that regime gets fired, and then this
• 34:30
  Speaker 6: guy that you drafted in the first round is starting
• 34:32
  Speaker 6: with his second staff and his second offensive system in
• 34:34
  Speaker 6: two years. I've seen that song, heard that song so
• 34:38
  Speaker 6: many times. It's happened twice in the last two times,
• 34:42
  Speaker 6: the bearst of quarterbacks in the first round. It happened
• 34:44
  Speaker 6: with mister Bisky and the John Fox regime. It happened
• 34:46
  Speaker 6: with Justin Fields and the Matt nag regime. And you're
• 34:48
  Speaker 6: setting yourself your quarterback up for failure if you do that.
• 34:51
  Speaker 6: So I think they are one step closer to that
• 34:53
  Speaker 6: eventuality than they would have been if they had started
• 34:56
  Speaker 6: over with their head coach this year. I don't think
• 34:58
  Speaker 6: that Eberfus is on the same sort of hot seat
• 35:00
  Speaker 6: at a John Fox or a Matt Nage were where
• 35:02
  Speaker 6: they almost picked those quarterbacks out of desperation for their
• 35:05
  Speaker 6: own jobs. To a certain extent, this feels different than that,
• 35:09
  Speaker 6: But I also don't think it's the perfect circumstances from
• 35:12
  Speaker 6: an infrastructure standpoint. I think the players they put around
• 35:15
  Speaker 6: him are very good, But from an infrastructure standpoint, I
• 35:18
  Speaker 6: don't think it is a perfect set of circumstances for
• 35:20
  Speaker 6: a young quarterback.
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: So staying in the division, Justin Jefferson just signed a
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: massive contract extension, most money ever for a receiver. You've
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: covered Justin Jefferson, You've written about Justin Jefferson. You had
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: a story a few years ago defensive backs described covering
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: him with a quote, his body lies to you.
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: Describe what that means.
• 35:47
  Speaker 6: I was always fascinated by this because I just felt
• 35:50
  Speaker 6: like he moved a little bit differently than other guys
• 35:52
  Speaker 6: at the position. And he's six ' one, but when
• 35:56
  Speaker 6: I stand, I'm five to eleven, justin Jefferson six to one,
• 35:59
  Speaker 6: and he stood next to him outside of the Vikings facility,
• 36:02
  Speaker 6: And even though he's only two inches taller than me,
• 36:05
  Speaker 6: his hip bone was about four inches higher than mine was.
• 36:09
  Speaker 6: So he's six ' one with these extremely long legs.
• 36:13
  Speaker 6: So when you're trying to figure out why he's moving
• 36:17
  Speaker 6: a certain way as a dB, he's chewing up so
• 36:20
  Speaker 6: much space so fast for a six to one guy
• 36:23
  Speaker 6: because his strides are insanely long. But because he's still
• 36:26
  Speaker 6: only six ' one and his center of gravity is
• 36:29
  Speaker 6: fairly low, he's able to change direction in a way
• 36:32
  Speaker 6: that is different than somebody with that stride length. So
• 36:35
  Speaker 6: that combination, he just moves differently than most guys who
• 36:40
  Speaker 6: are built like he is at that height at the position.
• 36:43
  Speaker 6: So there's really no way to understand when he's going
• 36:45
  Speaker 6: to throttle down when he's going to change direction, and
• 36:48
  Speaker 6: it makes it really really difficult to predict his movements.
• 36:50
  Speaker 6: And I think that we've seen that from DB's consistently
• 36:54
  Speaker 6: that just get absolutely cooked by him in open space
• 36:56
  Speaker 6: because they have no idea where he's going, and because he's.
• 36:59
  Speaker 4: Been injured, we forget how he is probably the best
• 37:02
  Speaker 4: receiver on football, like not everything you just said is true.
• 37:05
  Speaker 4: And then throw on top of that, he might have
• 37:06
  Speaker 4: the best hands in football, like that that Buffalo catch, Well,
• 37:10
  Speaker 4: that's if he makes all the fame. That's one of
• 37:12
  Speaker 4: the clips still show right, like that was a Hall
• 37:14
  Speaker 4: of Fame catch and throw by Kirk, like that whole
• 37:17
  Speaker 4: whole sequence and then getting that game. So yeah, I
• 37:20
  Speaker 4: love the fact that they are setting up their rookie
• 37:23
  Speaker 4: same as you guys with the Bears. It's like you're
• 37:25
  Speaker 4: setting your team up right with the rookie QB with
• 37:29
  Speaker 4: you know, an all pro receiver. I mean, the Bears
• 37:31
  Speaker 4: happened to maybe have three, but they guaranteed right now
• 37:34
  Speaker 4: in Vikings they have one. So you know, all the
• 37:37
  Speaker 4: stuff about them trying to move to the Jets, was
• 37:38
  Speaker 4: that real? Like the Jets were really trying to get
• 37:41
  Speaker 4: him off the Vikings. Was that real or was that
• 37:43
  Speaker 4: just draft talk? Did that really actually happen?
• 37:46
  Speaker 6: The Vikings were never going to trade him. Okay, they
• 37:48
  Speaker 6: were never going to trade him. I mean, it's the
• 37:51
  Speaker 6: entire point of doing what the Vikings have done over
• 37:54
  Speaker 6: the last couple of years, moving off of a contract
• 37:57
  Speaker 6: like Kirk Cousins and moving on to a rookie quarterback
• 37:59
  Speaker 6: contract is to balance the deals that you're going to
• 38:04
  Speaker 6: hand out at other positions. So the way that the
• 38:06
  Speaker 6: Vikings have conceived of this, if you think about the
• 38:08
  Speaker 6: way that some teams who are often drafting a quarterback,
• 38:11
  Speaker 6: they have to spend after getting the quarterback because their
• 38:14
  Speaker 6: teams are so bad and they have so much cap
• 38:16
  Speaker 6: space that the only way to kind of take advantage
• 38:18
  Speaker 6: of that rookie quarterback contract is to spend in free
• 38:21
  Speaker 6: agency or via trades over the year or two after
• 38:24
  Speaker 6: you draft that quarterback. With the Vikings, they felt good
• 38:27
  Speaker 6: enough about their infrastructure, two high level starting tackles, the
• 38:30
  Speaker 6: best wide receiver in the league, one of the best
• 38:32
  Speaker 6: best catching tight ends in the league, and a very
• 38:34
  Speaker 6: good number two receiver who they drafted in the first
• 38:36
  Speaker 6: round last year. Their thought is we're going to pre
• 38:39
  Speaker 6: spend on those pieces before we get the quarterback. And
• 38:44
  Speaker 6: that's what they've done, and the Christian Deosov contract will
• 38:46
  Speaker 6: be coming here in the.
• 38:47
  Speaker 5: Next year or so.
• 38:48
  Speaker 6: So that was the idea, is that if we're going
• 38:50
  Speaker 6: to have the most expensive receiver in the league, a
• 38:52
  Speaker 6: top paid tight end, two top paid tackles, we can't
• 38:55
  Speaker 6: afford somebody like Kirk Cousins. So we need to get
• 38:58
  Speaker 6: onto the final financial benefits of a rookie quarterback contract.
• 39:02
  Speaker 6: That plan doesn't make sense without justin Jefferson, so it
• 39:05
  Speaker 6: was never going to happen. That was always the precedent
• 39:08
  Speaker 6: and the antecedent to what the second half of the
• 39:10
  Speaker 6: plan was going to look like.
• 39:11
  Speaker 5: From Minnesota.
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: How did you know his hip bones were four inches
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: higher than your hip bones?
• 39:18
  Speaker 5: I had him stand next to me, you did, I
• 39:21
  Speaker 5: was curious?
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and you noticed, like you noticed that his hips
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: were much higher? Like how do you even see that?
• 39:30
  Speaker 6: I stood next to him, and I like, just where
• 39:32
  Speaker 6: is his hip boat? I literally hip to hip stood
• 39:34
  Speaker 6: next to him. So the Viking, I mean, this is
• 39:36
  Speaker 6: like inside baseball, but though oftentimes the interviews will happen
• 39:40
  Speaker 6: right outside of the door to their facilities. So guys
• 39:43
  Speaker 6: will come off the practice field, he'll sit on a
• 39:45
  Speaker 6: little like cobblestone rate like bench area and you just talk.
• 39:50
  Speaker 6: And so we were sitting there having that conversation in person,
• 39:52
  Speaker 6: and I said, can you stand up for me for
• 39:54
  Speaker 6: a second, And we just went hip to hip and
• 39:56
  Speaker 6: I wanted to see how long his legs were because
• 39:59
  Speaker 6: I wanted to see if the theory that his legs
• 40:01
  Speaker 6: were insanely long for six to one person was correct.
• 40:04
  Speaker 6: And that was really the only way of doing it
• 40:06
  Speaker 6: field research.
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: Simon, can you name the fastest growing ticketing app in
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: the United States?
• 40:12
  Speaker 3: Game Time?
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: That's right, It's game Time. I love Game Time for
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: two reasons. First, they still sponsor this show. Second, I
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: use game Time all the time. They have amazing last
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: minute deals, including pro in college sports. I'm actually opening
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: the game Time app right now from my house here
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: in Connecticut. Guess what the hottest team in baseball? The
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: New York Yankees. I can get into see them for
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: thirty bucks. No matter where you live, download the game
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: Time app. Get out have some fun this week. You
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: deserve it. You can redeem code favorites for twenty dollars
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: off first purchase terms apply again. Just download the game
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: Time app and use code favorites for twenty dollars off
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: your first purchase. Last minute tickets, lowest prices guaranteed. Do
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: you feel like you watch football differently than other people
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: on Sunday?
• 41:01
  Speaker 6: Yes, I mean different than somebody who's just watching the
• 41:05
  Speaker 6: game as a fan would watch. But I don't think
• 41:07
  Speaker 6: differently than analysts would watch, you know, I don't. I've
• 41:11
  Speaker 6: never pretended to be a person who has like this
• 41:14
  Speaker 6: exceptional x's and oh's football knowledge. I didn't play football
• 41:18
  Speaker 6: after high school. I've done my best to learn about
• 41:21
  Speaker 6: the game from people who know it best, talking to coaches,
• 41:24
  Speaker 6: talking to players, you know, watching videos, reading books, watching clinics.
• 41:28
  Speaker 6: But I'm not somebody who sees the game and understands
• 41:32
  Speaker 6: route concepts and progressions and all of that stuff like
• 41:35
  Speaker 6: former players are like really in tune analysts too. But
• 41:38
  Speaker 6: I think that I'm watching it differently than a general
• 41:40
  Speaker 6: fan would, just because I'm trying to pay attention to
• 41:43
  Speaker 6: what was the formation on this play, what was the
• 41:45
  Speaker 6: motion like on this play, how did they line up,
• 41:48
  Speaker 6: what was the personnel grouping?
• 41:49
  Speaker 5: Things like that.
• 41:50
  Speaker 6: But that's more just because I want to be in
• 41:52
  Speaker 6: tune with those things for my job, not because I
• 41:55
  Speaker 6: have some preternatural ability to see the game in a
• 41:57
  Speaker 6: way that other people can't.
• 42:00
  Speaker 3: Now, I know Chad will love this.
• 42:01
  Speaker 4: I just love schedule of talk and my my biggest thing,
• 42:04
  Speaker 4: I just want to get it because again, and we
• 42:05
  Speaker 4: talked Bears a little bit, but you know, our guy
• 42:08
  Speaker 4: Evan was telling us the Bears and Pittsburgh they don't
• 42:12
  Speaker 4: play a single divisional game until week eleven?
• 42:15
  Speaker 3: Like, what is your view on that? Is that is
• 42:16
  Speaker 3: that beneficiary too?
• 42:18
  Speaker 4: I mean again, you guys, I mean Jayed talk about
• 42:20
  Speaker 4: I think you guys.
• 42:21
  Speaker 3: Have one of the harder division of football.
• 42:22
  Speaker 4: I don't know if you agree where you talked a
• 42:23
  Speaker 4: little bit about there with Minnesota, Jordan Love up and
• 42:26
  Speaker 4: coming already know Destroit's incredible.
• 42:28
  Speaker 3: What is with that, like Pittsburgh and Bears.
• 42:30
  Speaker 4: Is that advantage for these two teams that have new
• 42:32
  Speaker 4: quarterbacks that they don't play divisional games until week eleven?
• 42:34
  Speaker 6: That's crazy if it's an advantage or a disadvantage, because
• 42:38
  Speaker 6: I think that there are other teams. The Vikings are
• 42:41
  Speaker 6: going to be a different team after Halloween than they're
• 42:43
  Speaker 6: going to be before Halloween, and I do think that.
• 42:46
  Speaker 6: You know, we've seen teams really hit their stride at
• 42:48
  Speaker 6: different points in the year. You know, the Lions, their offense,
• 42:51
  Speaker 6: you can set your watch to it. But the defense,
• 42:53
  Speaker 6: they've thrown out different sort of strategies. They've had different
• 42:55
  Speaker 6: identities throughout the season. So I would want to play
• 42:59
  Speaker 6: better teams I think. I think earlier in the year
• 43:01
  Speaker 6: before they can crystallize a little bit that's based on nothing,
• 43:05
  Speaker 6: but if there might be no information that backs that
• 43:08
  Speaker 6: up whatsoever. But I just hear certain personnel people and
• 43:12
  Speaker 6: coaches that have over the years have just said to me,
• 43:14
  Speaker 6: you're not the team you're gonna be until Thanksgiving. You're
• 43:16
  Speaker 6: not the team you're gonna be til Thanksgiving. That's just
• 43:18
  Speaker 6: hard for me to get out of my mind as
• 43:19
  Speaker 6: I'm thinking about the league more anecdotally. But I'm sure
• 43:23
  Speaker 6: in the end it doesn't really matter. You know, it's
• 43:25
  Speaker 6: more just a quirk of it than anything else. But
• 43:28
  Speaker 6: if your season takes a turn for the worst or
• 43:31
  Speaker 6: you haven't found yourself and these other teams kind of
• 43:33
  Speaker 6: settle into who they're going to be in the back
• 43:35
  Speaker 6: half of the year.
• 43:36
  Speaker 5: Having to go.
• 43:37
  Speaker 6: Through that brutal division slate all at once in that
• 43:40
  Speaker 6: stretch of the calendar. I mean that doesn't sound fun.
• 43:43
  Speaker 4: Yeah, And as someone that also has you know, a
• 43:46
  Speaker 4: decent amount of listeners during the NFL season, I love
• 43:48
  Speaker 4: to hear review on you know, what it's like to
• 43:50
  Speaker 4: have like a huge popular show during the NFL season?
• 43:53
  Speaker 3: What positives you like about it? Were the negatives of it? Like?
• 43:56
  Speaker 4: I mean, as someone that we do this, I can
• 43:59
  Speaker 4: tell you I can't even go.
• 44:00
  Speaker 3: I can't even when we win.
• 44:02
  Speaker 4: I don't like reading people's comments because it's like you
• 44:04
  Speaker 4: don't want them blowing smoke, right, and then you also
• 44:06
  Speaker 4: don't want to be someone telling you you're like the
• 44:08
  Speaker 4: worst person in the world. So I would love to
• 44:10
  Speaker 4: review what to like have such a huge show during
• 44:11
  Speaker 4: the season.
• 44:12
  Speaker 5: Oh how huge the show is? I appreciate you guys
• 44:14
  Speaker 5: framing it that way, but.
• 44:15
  Speaker 3: If I know it's gotta be a semi big I uh.
• 44:18
  Speaker 6: The first thing I would say is the number one
• 44:22
  Speaker 6: emotion that I feel about all of this all the
• 44:24
  Speaker 6: time is gratitude. I feel so insanely lucky to have
• 44:29
  Speaker 6: a consistent audience and to have built an audience of
• 44:31
  Speaker 6: any size because I don't think I'm special.
• 44:34
  Speaker 5: I don't think I'm.
• 44:35
  Speaker 6: More talented or more entertaining, or more knowledgeable than anybody
• 44:39
  Speaker 6: that tries to do this. So the fact that I've
• 44:41
  Speaker 6: been able to or we've been able to carve out
• 44:43
  Speaker 6: even a small set of people who are going to
• 44:45
  Speaker 6: listen to the show is still insane to me, and
• 44:46
  Speaker 6: I'll take it every single time. On the other side
• 44:49
  Speaker 6: of it, I think the only real thing that I
• 44:50
  Speaker 6: think about in season compared to out of season is
• 44:53
  Speaker 6: it's frustrating sometimes feeling like you're on the hamster wheel
• 44:56
  Speaker 6: a little bit, where you are almost kind of you're
• 44:59
  Speaker 6: constantly reacting to and then predicting what's going to happen
• 45:02
  Speaker 6: in the next week. And the NFL schedule in the
• 45:04
  Speaker 6: NFL season is so unique in that way, and college
• 45:06
  Speaker 6: football's like this too, where there are so few games
• 45:10
  Speaker 6: that you're almost you're tied to the schedule in a
• 45:13
  Speaker 6: way that you're not with some of these other sports.
• 45:16
  Speaker 6: Right Like if you're talking about the NBA or baseball,
• 45:19
  Speaker 6: every game, the sky isn't falling or a team isn't
• 45:23
  Speaker 6: the greatest thing that's ever happened. So I think that
• 45:25
  Speaker 6: you can kind of ride with the narratives, and they're
• 45:27
  Speaker 6: a little bit slower developing than they are in the NFL,
• 45:31
  Speaker 6: where if you have three good games in a row
• 45:34
  Speaker 6: and then you're Dak Prescott and you throw three picks
• 45:36
  Speaker 6: and that week I'm talking about how good Dak Prescott is,
• 45:39
  Speaker 6: there's going to be a very loud subsect to people
• 45:41
  Speaker 6: on the internet who are like, what are you talking about?
• 45:43
  Speaker 6: He played the garbage last week, and it's like, well, guys,
• 45:45
  Speaker 6: there's more than four games, like yeah, and then there's
• 45:48
  Speaker 6: let's take a step back here and think about this
• 45:50
  Speaker 6: more holistically. So that's the only thing that I think
• 45:52
  Speaker 6: is a little bit frustrating is that it's really really
• 45:55
  Speaker 6: hard to not cover the league with those sort of
• 45:58
  Speaker 6: vacillations and over the first month of the year. I mean,
• 46:01
  Speaker 6: I'm sure you know this and you feel this. It's
• 46:03
  Speaker 6: hard to talk about the NFL for the first four
• 46:06
  Speaker 6: weeks of the year because you have no idea what's
• 46:08
  Speaker 6: real and what's not. So you watch something happen in
• 46:12
  Speaker 6: week one and you think, oh man, this team is great,
• 46:14
  Speaker 6: and then three weeks later you're like, I can't believe
• 46:17
  Speaker 6: I said that. I hope that they burn the tapes
• 46:19
  Speaker 6: of me saying that. So it's just a different sort
• 46:22
  Speaker 6: of beast when it comes to the way the season unfolds,
• 46:25
  Speaker 6: the way the season plays out, because the games are
• 46:28
  Speaker 6: just different than they are in other sports.
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: Robert, I do want to thank you for coming on.
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: It's been great to have you on. You know, we
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: love The Athletic Football Show and I'm looking forward to
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: it in the fall and every week. Actually, be sure
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: to check out Robert Mays every single week on his
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: terrific podcast, The Athletic Football Show. As a reminder, the
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: favorite podcast is presented by Bet three six five. Bet
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: three six five doesn't do ordinary. That's why you get
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: more boosts with that than with anyone else. Every day
• 47:01
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  Speaker 5: I Love you. Action Network reminds you please gamble responsibly.
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