Latest / The Layback Podcast / Dawson Netz, Chicago Cubs Org RHP (Ep. 89)

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Dawson Netz, Chicago Cubs Org RHP (Ep. 89) · The Layback Podcast

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Hey everyone, welcome back to the Lay Back Podcast.
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Joining us today is right-handed pitcher in the Chicago Cubs
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organization, Dawson Nets. Now Dawson just finished his
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rookie campaign at a couple different levels with the Cubs,
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but did not enter the organization in the most normal
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way. He actually got signed out of
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coaching with the Arizona Wildcats and I believe he was on
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the pitching performance side. I don't remember the exact
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title, but obviously he can pick up the pieces for us on that.
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But nonetheless, Dawson, thanks a ton for joining us today.
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Really looking forward to the discussion as I know we're going
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to go a lot of different routes with this because you are way
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more than just a pitcher who throws the ball.
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So I'm excited to peel back the layers of this.
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Dawson, thanks again and let's get into it.
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So what you got for me? Appreciate it, Adam.
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I'm in. I'm in the Cubs org currently.
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I was a GA or an analyst on the pitching side at the University
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of Arizona this last year and I pitched at Arizona the previous
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five years. So the last six years have been
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at the University of Arizona and then was able to finish it out
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here with the Cubs org. So super excited and I
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appreciate you having me on. And you're an Arizona native as
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well, correct? No, so I'm, I'm from LA
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originally, that's right. And moved out here as soon as
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school started because my sister actually played softball at the
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University of Arizona. That's.
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What it was I knew you had family around the area and I
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couldn't couldn't remember the exact order there.
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So the the whole family came out when you and your sister decided
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to just make the rest of our families look bad by dominating
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on both diamonds. Yeah, essentially, no.
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I mean, they just figured they were going to be out here all
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the time watching both of us play.
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And she's only a year younger than me.
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So she played here five years. I played here five years, only
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one year didn't didn't line up. So they just moved out here.
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And my dad's originally from here.
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He went to high school in the area in Tucson, so very familiar
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with it. My my grandma lived here, have
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some, have some aunts out here. So it's not like it's foreign to
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us. So it, it made a lot of sense.
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It was pretty seamless. I'm going to pretend I wasn't
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wrong because you saying your dad is from there and you still
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have family there I'm going to count that as a win in my book.
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Is close enough to you being from there OK I hope you're OK
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with that. You can't take that away from me
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if you're not OK with that anyways cuz that.
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Works. On that hill.
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But yeah, let's let's dive into the baseball career a little
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bit. I know from our conversations
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you kind of dealt with some hiccups at times to say the
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least, but you certainly logged some serious innings throughout
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the career. It seemed like it was a bunch of
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little things that kind of impacted you, but injuries
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certainly don't tell the whole story.
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So I, I don't want to steal your Thunder here in any regard with
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the story, wherever you want to pick it up to talk about the
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baseball career. We'll, we'll start with the
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career and we'll, we'll just kind of peel everything back
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from there. Yeah.
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So initially in high school, I was very fortunate to be on some
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very good teams and get some some really cool accolades.
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I I was an all American for a few different outlets and played
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in the area code games, did a bunch of things.
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I was very fortunate to have a bunch of offers that I was
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choosing between and like in different schools I was looking
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at. Ultimately settled on on
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Arizona. But getting hurt and not having
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success were both foreign things to me in high school that I
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never experienced. And then Fast forward going to
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Arizona, I, I felt like I was given every opportunity in the
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world as a freshman to make an impact and, and log some big
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innings. Ended up hurting myself during
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the COVID season right before the pandemic happened.
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I was able to essentially take time off during that and kind of
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regroup and figure like, OK, this is just kind of a one off
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injury. I was our our our midweek
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starter at Arizona. I was logging some, some pretty
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big innings throwing out of the pen on the weekend.
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So no sweat there. Like maybe it's just a workload
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thing. Like whatever that meant.
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I didn't, I didn't even know what what workload was.
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So Fast forward sophomore year, healthy again, throwing and wind
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up going to Omaha, which was awesome.
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I didn't get the throw as much that year as I wanted to.
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Again, was given every opportunity in the world, but
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didn't really know what I was doing from a pitching
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perspective and like what my strengths were.
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And my biggest thing my sophomore was I couldn't get
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lefties out. I had no idea what like having a
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platoon neutral arsenal was or a or a platoon neutral pitch or
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something that even just played well to lefties.
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So I had to figure out how to just get righty's out that year,
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was able to throw in Omaha, which was awesome, and then
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ended up playing summer ball in the Cape that year.
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And then I had to leave early because I got hurt again.
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So I took more time off getting back after summer ball.
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And it was kind of the same theme of like, OK, let's let's
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take so and so months off, Let's not throw, Let's get you
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healthy. And if we're being honest, I
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mean, that was kind of the literature that was out around
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man was like, hey, we don't really know what a really good
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return to throw program was with like velos and understanding
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like what intensity ranges were. So let's just take time off, let
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the human body heal, and let's get you on a throwing program
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based on distance and let's start doing these things.
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So flash forward now to junior year.
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I cracked the weekend rotation once I'm finally healthy and
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kind of the same thing happens and I get hurt again.
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And keep in mind, these are all elbow injuries.
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Kind of the same thing happens. I get shut down.
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And there was nothing handled there wrong in the sense of what
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we knew and kind of what was in the baseball world at the time.
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So I was able to finish the year, but like I couldn't throw
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hard anymore. And I took more time off after
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that because we're like, all right, you keep having these
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issues. Let's just see if we can have
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more time off and get you to just figure out how to like let
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your body heal and then ultimately like throw better for
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whatever that means with cleaner mechanics.
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And we have nothing to back that up objectively.
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So flash forward to my senior year.
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I get to the point where my elbow hurts so bad I can't even
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throw during the week in between games.
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And I was taking so much ibuprofen every weekend just to
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be able to throw out of the pen and ended up having a great
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year. And my view was just tanking
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every weekend. My coach keeps asking me like,
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are you hurt? Are you hurt?
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And I'm like, no, I'm fine, I'm fine.
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Even though I'm in a bunch of pain because I just figured like
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this is kind of the new norm for me.
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And I don't, I don't really know what else anything looks like or
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how to get out of this. So I'm just going to keep taking
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ibuprofen and I'm throwing strikes and I'm getting outs.
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So let's just keep rolling with it.
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Season ends, I'm like, I have to shut down.
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I, I can't throw like it hurts to lift my arm.
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So then I end up coming back for my for my 5th year and I'm like,
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you know what, I need to start looking into like what I'm doing
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wrong and ultimately like, how do I change that?
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So this is kind of when I started doing my own research
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and figuring out like, what do I do at a high level?
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And, and like, ultimately, how do I leverage that?
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And then how do I track like what I'm doing wrong and these
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deficiencies that I have and how do I make them better?
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I was very fortunate to have met Kevin Vance, who's our, our
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pitching coach. My, my fifth year.
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That was his first year. And then John Deroyne, who's now
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the pitching coach at Arizona. He was in a, in a performance
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role with him and they were super analytical and they showed
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me a lot of the things I did at a high level and helped me to
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understand like objectively, OK, this is what you do.
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Do you cut your your 4 seam a little bit at ball release,
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which makes you supinator. I know that's, that's kind of a
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term that people get hung up on because of the fact that, yeah,
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everyone supinates and pronates. But how do we turn that into a
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usable and actionable thing that we can help to create seam
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effects and help guys to understand like how they can
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understand ball flight and ultimately create an arsenal.
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So that, OK, you're probably a supinator because you cut your
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fastball a little bit. OK, let's let's understand like
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what your body wants to do. How do we create a fastball
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around that and a secondary package to complement that?
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So it's like, OK, all right, let's just solely work on
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throwing A4 scene. Let's stop throwing a 2 scene
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because that doesn't make sense for that being your main
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fastball to lean on. OK, now let's let's understand
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how that plays. OK, that probably plays well in
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the upper third of the zone. And let's let's start to create
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maybe like a cutter or a or a gyro slider off of that to
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create a little bit of separation.
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And then you're going to throw a change up, you're going to seam
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shift it just because you supinate into ball release.
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So understanding all those things I was able to create in
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Arsenal that was that was usable and help me figure out like, OK,
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what are you doing that is, is getting you hurt?
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And we were able to kind of pinpoint like, OK, you kind of
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push the arm action, you're putting your, your elbow and
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parts of your arm at risk because of the way that you're,
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that you're unwinding into ball release and understand that, OK,
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how do I pull my arm through the zone?
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How do I leverage the PEC better?
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How do I create a better spiral with my arm?
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And then ultimately looking at things like Kinatrax understand
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like, OK, how is your arm sequencing?
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How do we look at like your center of mass, how everything's
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moving? Like is everything following the
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the kinematic sequence properly to yield a not only healthy, but
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like a good efficient throw that you can throw harder with?
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And looking at all these things, they kind of opened up my whole
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world to like, wow, we can really objectify pretty much all
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of this stuff and track it ended up having a solid 5th year.
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There were some, there were some hiccups early on just because of
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the fact that I was figuring out how to implement these things
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during the season, which wasn't great, but I was pretty crystal
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clear with them and they were worried.
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Like, hey, man, we know this is your last year.
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Like are you going to be OK with not throwing a lot?
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Like we, we know you're working through some things.
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I'm like, hey, ego aside, like I just want to do it right.
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I don't want to sit here and, and be upset because I'm a fifth
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year and this is my last year and I have to play like, I'd
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rather play half the season at a high level then play the whole
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season at a not so high level. So looking at all of these
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things, I was, I was able to figure out half of through the
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year like, OK, this is this is how I need to throw.
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This feels comfortable now based on everything that I'm learning
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and ended up throwing the second-half of the year and it
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was it was awesome. Flash forward, I end up going
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and playing in the MLB draft league playing summer ball.
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I end up throwing a lot harder. I was I was getting my average
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fastball Velo up above 90 finally and I was hitting 9495
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consistently, which was something that I hadn't done in
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a long time. Then the draft rolls around, I
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get some phone calls and some some org start hitting me up.
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I end up not getting drafted or signed and I was super bummed
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about it because I felt like it was too little too late to where
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I figured out some things to help me kind of create success
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but it wasn't enough. And knowing what I know now, I
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mean, I'm not, I'm not a super big guy.
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I, I was a lot older at the time.
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So like I don't know if I would have invested in myself at that
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moment either. So looking at it objectively
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from that perspective too, from the other side of the ball,
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like, OK, like am I creating something of value that's going
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to help a Major League org to create a big leaguer or at least
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give them the opportunity to have higher chances with their
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players? Understanding that after that
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was was was very helpful and like, you know what, maybe I
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just don't have it. And that kind of segwayed into
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me being Aga or, or an analyst at Arizona and shifting my focus
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away from like, you know what, I don't think I was I was meant to
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play at a high level. But this is kind of leading me
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in a way where I can learn more things and I can leverage that
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with players to help them understand more about
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themselves. Because of all the struggles I
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went through. Maybe I can use this knowledge
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in my experiences to help them get the most out of themselves.
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So that was pretty much my experience at the at EU of A and
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kind of what what led me to learning all these things.
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There's one big piece that is really kind of sticking out to
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me. You can tell that story, and it
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sounds like you spent four years banging your head against the
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wall doing the same exact thing and expecting a different
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result, which may be on the surface that's what it would
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appear to be. But as you stated, you, as well
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as those around you and even the industry as a whole literally
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didn't know any better. Like, oh, you have pain but you
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don't have a positive MRI? OK, just take time off and
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you'll be fine in a few months. That that was the answer to
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everything. It, it was just like, yeah, rub
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some dirt on it and you'll be OK.
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Yeah, exactly. We, we moved past that stage.
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But your, your solution was just like, yeah, don't do anything
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about it for a little bit and you'll probably be OK.
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It's not a knock on you or anyone that you were affiliated
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with. As you said, it was just kind of
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the situation at the time. And I know that gets really hard
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when you were left working hard or left making decisions with no
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real direction associated with those suggestions.
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So like, yeah, this is what we think could happen, but no
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reasoning behind it. And it sounds like that would
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that was also the pursuits for a while on the performance side.
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So then when you ultimately are afforded the opportunities to
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look at how you move biomechanically and figure out
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what works best for you, I'm sure it felt like this amazing
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illuminating moment where you're like, wait, there are things
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that can help me. There are tools here that I have
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that can actually make me successful.
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Because now kind of like peeling things back or winding things
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back a little bit. I'm sure it was super difficult
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for you for a while to be like, I'm a high school all American
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who could have gone anywhere in the country.
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And now I can't throw a fastball above 90 mph as a junior in
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college. Like what, what happened?
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And I know that that's kind of like stepping the timeline back
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a little bit, but I would love to cover that mental side a
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little knowing that there are so many college or professional or
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even high school athletes that deal with such similar things.
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They reach this pedestal and they think it's going to be all
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sunshine and rainbows from there on out.
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Not knowing that a little set back or like taking the wrong
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step. Not even.
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I don't even want to call it the wrong step, but taking a step a
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different direction can either set you back or just completely
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change the trajectory of everything you're dealing with.
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Yeah. And I like that you said that
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because I think a lot of people look in the past and they get
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hung up on some of the decisions that they made.
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But I know in good faith that at that crossroads I was at, I was
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operating off of the best info that I had at the time.
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So I don't have regrets for where I was at and what I acted
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upon, but it was tough knowing that I was that guy that was at
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the field last every night after practice, just working on
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anything and everything, even though there was no substance to
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it, because I was like, I'm going to will success into my
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life right now because I'm so upset by like it being so hard
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and that kind of pushing me and really motivating and channeling
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my my work ethic into like, OK, let's let's put this into
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something smarter. Let's let's put this more into
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into research and practice that actually has things backed up
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with data with information and helping guys like understand how
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do I use all this info that I have to actually create a good
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baseball player and then trim off all the fluff that doesn't
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matter. And it's just extra, right?
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Like I don't think everyone has to be that player that's that's
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their last all the time. Like my routine now is insanely
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short, but it's very specific and targeted towards the things
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that I know that are going to help me get better.
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So that was kind of my thought process with looking at where I
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was at then and really trying to assess it now.
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Like, no, I don't have regrets. Yeah, it sucked.
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It wasn't fun sitting in that. But I was operating off of like
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what I knew at the time and and the information that I had.
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How did either your coaches who were new for your fifth year in
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Vance and Deroin, or how did you approach them or they approach
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you to ultimately come to this meeting the minds of like, hey,
16:39
Dawson, we can do something different here?
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Or you going to them and saying guys like I'm lost, like what?
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How did that play out? Who approached who?
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Because as you said, they're new, they're seeing a fifth year
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guy who's been here and although he's been hurt, he's had some
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success. He's been a part of the program.
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That's normally not where you make a lot of adjustments to an
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individual. I'd love if you could just talk
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through that as well. Yeah, so it was, it was pretty
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mutual. I mean, they, they kind of laid
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forth what they wanted me to work on and I was crystal clear
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with like how I was feeling and how I felt like implementing
17:15
that into my routine was, was, was working for me.
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That allowed us to kind of open that Channel of conversation to
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be like, OK, this isn't working. This is working.
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And then reassuring them the whole way, like my, my ego's not
17:28
in this. I mean, I, I remember Vantik
17:30
asking me all the time, like, hey, man, are you, are you upset
17:32
with me that like you weren't throwing?
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I understand that, that you're not emotional about this, but I
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still feel for you. Like, I want you to have a good
17:39
experience and like, I want to know how you're feeling and just
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like reassuring him the whole way.
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Like, no, dude, I don't want you to feel bad for me.
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Like I, I just want to get better.
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And if you ever feel like I, I'm not ready for that, you don't
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have to explain it to me. Like I'm going to put my trust
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in you to understand that you have my best interest in mind
17:58
because of what you've communicated to me.
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And developing that trust, I think is what made him such a
18:05
good coach was him understanding like, OK, I can communicate with
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my players or not communicate with my players and just act
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like I know everything or show them that I know a lot and he
18:16
knew a lot. And that that really allowed me
18:19
to grow in in relationship with him and figure out like, OK, how
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do I use these things to get better?
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I mean, it got to the point where I was working with him
18:27
specifically for a month and I was working with John
18:30
specifically for a month and then pulling away things from
18:32
like what they were both seeing and working together.
18:35
It was such a great model that allowed me to really figure out
18:40
like how to get the most from myself and, and, and I felt like
18:44
that's a, a testament to them and how good of coaches they are
18:49
and the information they had and not only understanding it, but
18:52
how good of communicators they were to help me understand, like
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how to use it and then implement it and then how I was feeling.
18:59
So my experience with them was, was, was awesome.
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And, and I owe a lot of what I've learned to both of those
19:05
guys. Moving forward to Dawson Nets
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the coach, so you you don't get the call.
19:12
Coming off of that summer, how much did you value trying to
19:16
offer a similar sentiment to the players as you move into that GA
19:22
position right away? Because it's obvious that Deroin
19:26
and bands had a profound impact on you in the way that they were
19:29
able to communicate and trust in you as an athlete.
19:35
And I, I guess like build a relationship.
19:37
How how were you able to take that and apply it to your own
19:41
career as a coach? Just right off the jump, guys
19:43
that you were sharing a uniform with mere months before that see
19:48
you as a teammate and just going to get burgers and shakes on the
19:52
weekend with. Because I, I know that's exactly
19:55
what you guys do when you're not playing.
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But to then translate that immediately into no, this is
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what you need to work on because this is what I see.
20:02
Yeah, no, that's that's, that's a really good point.
20:05
What really drew me back to going there and being a
20:09
volunteer was like, hey, I, I believe in this model, I believe
20:13
in the system. I believe in the information
20:15
that you're giving to players, like if playing's not going to
20:18
work out, I want to be a coach and I want to be that kind of
20:21
coach. Like those are the things that I
20:23
want to have in my toolbox that I can use.
20:26
And then communicating that with players or recruits, Like, hey,
20:31
use me as an example. It didn't work out, but I was
20:34
able to have so much success in the little time I had with these
20:37
guys. And I'm now back here at school
20:40
making no money because I feel like this is more valuable for
20:44
me learning skills that I can use to make players better than
20:47
anywhere else I could go making some sort of salary.
20:50
So that was that was the biggest thing I tried to communicate to
20:54
guys. And I think they saw that
20:55
driving me of like, wow, he does really believe in this.
20:59
And this is something that we can now trust him because not
21:04
only do we have coaches that we like, but we have someone that
21:06
played with us, was in the trenches with us and coaching
21:09
with them. Like I felt like I was able to
21:11
bridge that gap of like still understanding from their
21:15
perspective as players, but like helping the bridge the
21:17
information and reflect like how I felt about everything they
21:22
they were saying from the coaching side.
21:24
And I think that Synergy really helped us to create a really
21:27
cool environment and to actually use the information that we're
21:32
learning to make all the players a lot better.
21:35
That's pretty unique, and it's honestly not what I expected at
21:38
all to hear you say that. A commitment to the system is
21:43
kind of what earned the trust of who were once your teammates to
21:48
then your players. And I, I guess setting the
21:52
example that way for, for a guy to show them, as you said, I'm
21:57
just kind of summarizing this and putting it my own, I guess,
22:00
synthesized manner. But for you to actually
22:04
represent like guys, no, this meant so much to me.
22:07
I learned so much. I developed so much.
22:09
I see the vision, I see the future.
22:12
You can have this too. And like, I'm all in.
22:15
So if, if like they saw you in the trenches, then want it that
22:20
bad that you're willing to forego all these opportunities
22:22
that you might have had elsewhere to come back and be a
22:25
part of it. Like I, I guess if I was your
22:28
teammate, I'd be like, well, shit, this is this is probably
22:33
the right thing for us to be doing.
22:34
Why wouldn't I have on board? Now I, I do think that's
22:37
awesome. And like I said, super unique,
22:39
not what I expected. Now sticking on this coaching
22:42
theme for a little bit, what was your biggest strength you felt
22:47
right away? Like whether it's something you
22:49
parlayed from your career or the number one thing you were able
22:52
to help your guys with first besides bridging the
22:56
communication gap because you already used that one.
22:59
So I'm not going to let you say it again.
23:00
So if there's something else that you felt like made you a
23:04
really effective coach or like what, what was the piece of your
23:09
personal coaching arsenal that made you successful during that
23:13
short stint as a coach your GA year?
23:16
Yeah, I think I always knew how to pitch at a high level.
23:20
So I could speak to that in the like gamesmanship of of of
23:24
strategy. But what I didn't know was the
23:27
technical programming side of like making a pitcher better
23:32
from like a drill package and doing water bag routines, him
23:37
doing Med ball throws and then throwing plios and like why we
23:42
do each of those things and kind of what they're all spearheading
23:45
towards in terms of like what the what the product is that
23:49
we're trying to yield out of their throw.
23:52
But I felt like my strength that I was able to, to find in, in
23:57
going through this was helping to create a pitcher that's
24:03
effective at being a really good mover, but also like understands
24:07
how to like sharpen his arsenal and then ultimately use both of
24:10
those things in the game. I, I feel like we have a lot of
24:14
guys in the space that are like, OK, I'm really good at game
24:17
calling in the game or another guy that's like, I'm really good
24:20
at programming. But I felt like my strength was
24:23
being able to blend both and help guys to learn.
24:27
Like, OK, I'm showing you how to, how to move better here.
24:30
And this is this is what we're this is what we're doing.
24:33
These are the drills that we're not only like showing you that
24:36
we think are going to work, but we're verifying this on, on our
24:39
force plate mount and showing you like, OK, you, you need to
24:42
work on your, on your leg lift and you're on weight into your,
24:46
your throw on the mound. And these are the three drills
24:49
that we've prescribed to you. And our graph on Newt force is
24:54
showing that this is putting you in the most optimal place for
24:58
what we're working on. So don't take my word for it,
25:02
take take all the numbers that were that we're getting for it
25:05
and realize that like now that we're getting you to move
25:08
better, OK, now I can blend Trackman data in with like what
25:13
we're trying to do with your arsenal.
25:14
Now let's use both of these things to get you to throw
25:16
harder and pitch more effective to both lefties and righties.
25:20
So I would say that would be my biggest strength is being able
25:23
to kind of holistically look at how do we blend both of these?
25:26
Because the the beauty of our game is, and I say this to
25:29
everyone, like you can get as optimal as you want off the
25:32
field, but at the end of the day, you have to go play a game
25:35
too. So being able to to create a
25:38
cohesion with both of these trains of thought and then
25:42
ultimately just make a good pitcher.
25:43
And all while this is going on, are you still training in the
25:47
hopes of getting into pro ball or where where was this fire
25:52
that was still burning for the Cubs to ultimately sign you in?
25:56
What was it, March or something like that?
25:59
Yeah, 2025 to to hop on over to the complex and start training
26:05
to go off to an affiliate. Yeah, so that kind of kick
26:08
started with we, we do these things in the fall called
26:11
competition bullpens and guys throw against each other and
26:16
it's it's kind of a a break that that they get and just throwing
26:20
on track, man every day and just focusing on purely like, OK,
26:24
what are your shapes look like? How how hard are you throwing?
26:27
Are you executing this in the zone to like, no, we're going to
26:30
put you up against somebody that you're playing with right now.
26:33
And we're going to figure out like, who's going to who's going
26:37
to win this, this arena style fighting head to head, like
26:41
who's going to thrive in this, in this kind of situation now
26:43
with the tools that we've given you.
26:45
And we we had like an odd number.
26:48
And Vance is like, Hey, like, can you throw?
26:50
Like I we just need someone to throw against one of the guys.
26:53
And I was like, sure. And I had not been built up to
26:55
that point, but was still throwing enough with the guys
26:59
that needed to warm up every day just so that that they could
27:01
throw. And I was like, OK, this is what
27:04
I would throw. This is how I would do it just
27:06
really quick in my head if I was in their shoes playing again.
27:10
I'm like, you know what, I'm just going to go up there like
27:11
I'm probably going to try to like move a little bit better on
27:14
the on the mound. I'm going to try to have a
27:15
better on weight. I'm going to try to move a
27:17
little smoother, sit later and then ultimately like drop my arm
27:22
angle to rotate a little bit better.
27:23
So I'm, I'm having these internal thoughts just saying
27:27
like, OK, how do I, how do I make a quick fix?
27:29
Like let's just mess around this real quick.
27:31
So I jump on the mound, I throw a bullpen against the guy.
27:34
I don't end up beating him, but I'm sitting like 92 to 94 and
27:38
like throwing pretty hard sliders, nasty change UPS nasty
27:41
and like understanding why I'm, I'm throwing these things.
27:44
I'm like, OK, like I'm gonna have to seam shift to change up.
27:47
I have to cut it a little bit, understand, like where does
27:49
where does my ring finger have to be when I'm throwing this?
27:51
And all right, if I'm going to throw a gyro, I supinate, it's
27:55
going to sweep a little bit. I'm going to kind of cheat out
27:57
to the front of it. I need to stay behind it a
27:59
little bit and trust that I'm going to create that break just
28:02
based on who I am anatomically. And then ultimately, like how to
28:05
throw that, like this slider needs to be hard.
28:07
So I'm doing all this stuff and they're like shocked.
28:10
They're like, Oh my gosh, dude. Like this is actually pretty
28:13
gross. And I was like, yeah, I mean,
28:15
this is a testament more to what you guys are showing me, if if
28:19
anything, because I'm, I'm literally just using what I'm
28:23
learning. And there was another guy at
28:25
Arizona, my same role. His name is Owen Cuff.
28:27
He's now in the pitching performance role that John was
28:29
in with with Vance last year. And we both got to the point
28:33
where we were like, you know what, You're still able to throw
28:36
out A at a high level. Like, let's just do an
28:38
experiment and let's just program you as if you were one
28:41
of the players here and let's see if we can get you that, I
28:43
don't know, throw 100 like something stupid.
28:45
That was kind of the initial point of where we started down
28:48
this rabbit hole of like, let's just see what you can do.
28:52
And then I had this thought in the back of my head like, OK,
28:55
I'll get built up. I'll go play Indy ball and try
28:57
and throw as hard as I can just for fun.
29:00
And then as soon as the season's over, I'll call it quits.
29:03
I'll try and get a job and be a coach somewhere.
29:06
So we start going through all of this and I'm like, OK, how am I
29:11
going to start like objectively understanding what I'm doing at
29:15
a high level, what I'm doing bad?
29:17
And then how do we assess that? And then ultimately the, the
29:19
areas that I'm weak in, how do I incrementally get better to
29:23
figure out like how to raise the floor on these and make myself a
29:28
better player? Because if you can hit 100 once,
29:31
that's useless if your average fastball Velo is 89, right?
29:35
Who cares? It's about pushing the floor on
29:37
usable metrics that actually means something.
29:40
So it's like, no, I, I want to, I want to be able to have an
29:43
average fastball Velo of of 92. Like I've been able to hit 95 a
29:48
few times in my career, but my average fastball Velo was always
29:51
around 90. So it's like, OK, how do we get
29:53
my floor higher? What's the kind of arsenal I
29:56
want to throw? How do we create shapes?
29:58
And we're like, you know what, let's throw all of them.
30:00
So I got to the point where I was throwing 8 pitches, but
30:02
understanding like how my supination bias plays into
30:05
creating seam effects and movement with the ball into ball
30:10
release. So it's like, OK, I had eight
30:12
pitches. I mean, I was throwing A4 seam,
30:13
a sinker of throwing splitters, change UPS, throwing a cutter,
30:17
gyro sweeper and a curveball. We were just kind of messing
30:20
around with all this stuff and like, OK, now let's take you to
30:22
the training room. Let's do a range of motion
30:24
screen. Let's figure out where you're
30:25
deficient and then let's leverage those things that we
30:29
know about you anatomically to figure out like how do you
30:32
create force? How do you hold the ground?
30:35
How do you generate Z force on the mound?
30:37
How do you generate Y force? And ultimately, like how do you
30:40
apply the how do you apply the brakes on the mound?
30:42
The best to create an efficient lead leg block so that we can
30:46
yield just a really good efficient throw and then build
30:50
this Arsenal secondary package off of that to create something.
30:54
So it's like, OK, this is what we want.
30:56
Now let's backtrack. Let's let's track it and we got
30:59
to the point where it's like, OK, now we understand
31:02
anatomically what you're doing, what your arsenal is doing.
31:05
Now let's track your throws like you're a weight lifter.
31:09
Let's figure out what you need to do, what your high days are,
31:12
what your low days are, when you're going to have an off day,
31:15
and then when your D load period is going to be.
31:18
And then what D low range you need to be in based on the
31:21
percentage of your Max fastball and where we want that to be.
31:26
And then operating with that to create a good acute to chronic
31:29
ratio so that I can get within this window where I'm operating
31:34
in a healthy way to yield the best picture I can possibly be
31:38
with information that I have. So we were just going crazy,
31:41
nerding out over all of this stuff, which was awesome.
31:44
And we were just having fun with it.
31:46
Like I wasn't expecting to get a phone call that hey, we, we want
31:49
to sign you based on all this stuff.
31:51
So we just kept working along all of this for a few months.
31:56
And guys were were like watching me do all this and they were
31:58
asking us questions. And Owen did an awesome job in
32:01
like helping me to implement all this and helping me to
32:04
understand a lot of this info. And he's in that role for a
32:07
reason right now because he understands all this stuff.
32:10
So we were working together really trying to make a monster,
32:13
if you will, like like Frankenstein in the lab.
32:15
So that was that was our goal. How did the Cubs hear about you?
32:19
Yeah, so John is good friends with Tyler Zombro, who helps run
32:24
tread and he's a special assistant with the Cubs.
32:28
Essentially, we were, we were at the point now where it's like,
32:32
OK, I was fully built up. We started throwing in the lab
32:35
and I threw a bullpen the first time in the lab after we'd
32:40
figured out some, some different movement things that I was
32:43
working on to throw a little bit harder.
32:46
And we were like, all right, let's, let's push the envelope a
32:49
little bit. Let's throw all 8 shapes and
32:51
let's get you to try to hit a let's, let's get you to try to
32:53
hit APR. I'm like, OK, I'm warming up at
32:57
like 89 and Owen looks at me and he's like, dude, like this is
33:00
coming out pretty hot for your warmups like you were you've
33:03
normally thrown 89 in the game. Like Max intent bullets like
33:06
this is looking pretty good. So I'm throwing and knowing what
33:11
I know about myself, like OK, I don't want to get my adrenaline
33:14
going too early because once that spikes, I'm not able to
33:17
kind of hold what I'm doing and get ready efficiently.
33:20
So I'm like, I need to really ease into this.
33:23
So I'm, I'm warming up to 8989, OK, I'm at 909192 towards the
33:28
end of the of the pen, I'm starting to throw like 93 pretty
33:33
consistently. And then he's like, all right,
33:34
it looks like you're moving a little slow.
33:36
New force is showing that your center of mass velocity is a
33:39
little low. So I start moving a little
33:41
faster and next thing you know, it's 9494949595.
33:45
And then I break my PR of like 95 three and I'm like 95495
33:50
five, 95-6. And he's like, dude, you're,
33:53
you're climbing. I'm, I was literally taking the
33:56
info he was spewing to me from what he was seeing on the
33:59
computer in the lab. And I'm implementing this as I'm
34:02
throwing and we're able to kind of like cohesively create a
34:08
better delivery during the pen as I'm throwing.
34:13
So I felt like I had reached this, this optimal point of
34:16
like, OK, I understand how to actually leverage this
34:19
information now. And I understand this language
34:22
like there's no other way to throw than have a guy that's
34:27
able to translate stuff like this for me so that I can manage
34:30
it and throw harder. So we end up going back in into
34:33
the office with the coaches and they're like, oh, we saw you
34:36
guys were like messing around in the lab.
34:37
How'd it go? And I was like, dude, I had APR
34:39
3 times and broke it three times.
34:41
And they were like, Oh my gosh, like, that's, that's pretty
34:43
cool. I'm like, yeah, like just using
34:44
all the stuff that we're learning.
34:46
So this is right before our season started this year in in
34:49
2025. We're like, OK, let's let's
34:52
deload now for a week. Let's let's have you re ramp up
34:56
and let's let's have you throw one more bullpen and let's see
35:00
if you can break that record and and hit 96, which I'd never done
35:04
ever. I end up throwing a touch and
35:07
feel on that Friday, which was a week later, and we were just
35:12
going to go up there and have a high intent day, stay within a
35:17
range of like 89 to 91 just so I can get my arm used to that.
35:20
Because we had we had ramped up properly up until that point.
35:24
But then it it got to where we were biting off a little more
35:26
than we can chew and got a little greedy with like, all
35:29
right, yeah, you hit APR, but that was a little aggressive
35:31
early. So like, OK, we're going to back
35:34
off a little bit. And while you're only coaching
35:36
guys, yes, at the same time. So they're all in there watching
35:39
and so I'm supposed to throw this D load pen on Friday and
35:44
just kind of like get on the mound, hit a certain V low range
35:48
just so that I'm ready for this Max intent bullpen the following
35:51
week. So I get up there, I'm warming
35:54
up at like 91 and he's like, dude, we're not doing AD load
35:58
week right now. Like you're just going to go for
36:00
it because your body's feeling good.
36:02
I'm like, OK, fine, I get up there.
36:04
My average fastball V low for the pen was 93.
36:07
Keep in mind it's supposed to be AD load pen throwing 93 and then
36:12
by the end of it I'm like sitting 95595 six.
36:16
I hit 95 eight and then the last bullets 96.1.
36:19
And we're looking at each other like this is unbelievable.
36:22
Like I didn't feel like I was putting in any more effort than
36:25
I had in my career. I was just moving more
36:28
efficiently and I was understanding like what I was
36:33
doing and what buttons I had to press more to yield more output
36:38
out of myself. Just understanding who I am as
36:40
an athlete and as a thrower. So we end up having this track
36:45
man report that's got 8 pitches on it and an average fastball
36:49
field of 93 with, with my new PR of 96 one and we're looking at
36:54
this and we're like, holy crap, this looks pretty cool.
36:58
So John sends it out to some of his friends and, and Zombro ends
37:03
up looking at it, but we don't get any any hits.
37:06
I'm not thinking anything of it. I'm like, you know what?
37:08
I think it's just wishful thinking at this point.
37:10
Like I'm turning 25 soon, you know, like I'm a coach.
37:14
I haven't been playing up into this point.
37:16
Like I'm sure they're just, they're, they're just, they're
37:19
just being nice sending this out, just just seeing what
37:21
happened. So we end up going to a series
37:23
at BYU in Provo, UT and we're getting on the bus to go to our,
37:30
our game, I believe on Saturday and get a phone call from, from
37:36
Zombro. And he's like, hey, dude, if
37:37
you're interested, we will sign you right now.
37:40
And I was like, what? I'm like, dude, I was just
37:42
messing around. Like I didn't say this to him,
37:44
but I was like, sure, yeah, I'll sign with the Cubs.
37:48
Like, that sounds awesome. Like, who doesn't want to play
37:51
pro baseball? So get off the phone.
37:53
I'm walking on the bus. All the guys hear about it.
37:55
They're all going crazy. We end up going to the field.
37:58
I'm borrowing a guy's cleats in his glove and I'm throwing a
38:01
bullpen to get ready to go play rookie ball in a week.
38:04
So I was helping Owen run our bullpen for games, getting guys
38:08
hot. I don't have any gear,
38:10
obviously. Like I'm just there wearing a
38:11
uniform, like helping guys get ready.
38:13
And I'm just charting all of our games and I'm having to borrow
38:17
gear and get ready to go throw again.
38:20
So that was insane. And that's that's that was my
38:24
that was my last weekend and end up leaving after we got home and
38:28
then drove up to Mesa and the rest is history.
38:31
So crazy how that all happened. I love that in this whole
38:34
process it was literally just a couple guys messing around
38:37
trying to learn a little bit more and like the real just.
38:40
A couple idiots messing around in the lab.
38:42
Yeah, it was the ultimate playground for a couple of nerds
38:45
who love baseball and happen to be decent at it.
38:48
All while you're trying to go to Omaha and all while you're
38:51
trying to create the best pitching staff possible.
38:53
So I can't imagine you were sleeping too much during this
38:55
time when you're trying to invest everything you can to
38:58
help the guys be as good as they can be, as well as you trying to
39:02
be as good as you can be with all the tools and all the
39:07
knowledge that you had basically been searching for your entire
39:10
career, you finally had it. And then of course, it's why
39:13
you're trying to do everything all at once.
39:15
I slept fine up until that night that I had to wake up and drive
39:19
up. There I was.
39:20
I was pretty nervous because I did not know what to expect.
39:23
I was like, I don't know if these guys are going to look on
39:25
an MRI and see that something's wrong.
39:26
Like, I don't know, I haven't looked at my arm in forever.
39:29
I felt fine. I felt the best I'd felt in my
39:32
my entire career. So I was just super nervous
39:36
because I didn't know what to expect.
39:38
And leading up to that point, it was was surreal because I'm
39:43
like, OK, like I was having a lot of fun doing all this.
39:46
But now it's now it's getting serious.
39:48
Like this is now I'm jumping back into my baseball career
39:51
that I had overthought up until this point and was doing all the
39:55
wrong things. So I was literally talking to
39:58
myself as I'm driving up there, like, dude, what are you going
40:01
to do differently now? Because that obviously didn't
40:04
work. Yeah, you were able to throw a
40:06
little bit harder over the last few weeks.
40:08
But like, now you now you need a routine.
40:11
Now you need to figure out what you're doing.
40:13
And that kind of led me down the rabbit hole, like, OK.
40:16
All the research that I've done, like, what are these systems
40:20
that I like? What are these things that I've
40:21
learned about? What are these deficiencies that
40:24
I had that I can hit head on and track?
40:27
And I mean, that's, that's how I, that's how I learned about
40:30
you guys was like, I was at the Wake Forest seminar learning
40:32
about all this stuff and I was like, you know what, I've had
40:35
elbow issues. I've done research on isometrics
40:38
and tendon health and ultimately like I've probably had a tendon
40:41
based issue with, with my elbow and I'd already kind of laid
40:45
some groundwork out with like, OK, I need to do something with
40:49
isometrics. I don't know what that looks
40:50
like, but I'm like, wait, I learned about this, this flex
40:53
program and I've had elbow issues.
40:56
This is an isometric based system and it tracks it
41:00
periodically and it targets specific structures within your
41:05
elbow. Like why would I not use this?
41:08
So now I started to do this internal audit of like, all
41:11
right, I don't need to do a bunch of forearm strengthening
41:13
exercises. I need to be very specific based
41:16
on the symptoms I was feeling and find systems that I can use
41:19
to track it. I mean, I also got in touch with
41:22
Ryan Nishida with Armored Heat and I was like, OK, what about
41:26
my shoulder? Do we know objectively yields
41:29
the best and most efficient way to move and be healthy as a
41:33
thrower? OK, let's let's get on a program
41:35
with with Armored HEAT. OK, now I've got my elbow, I've
41:39
got my shoulder, I've got my arm health taken care of.
41:42
Now what am I doing on the on the weightlifting side to help
41:47
kind of yield these results of like being healthy and then
41:52
maintaining a good engine that I can use throughout the year?
41:55
And very fortunate, our organization's very forward
41:58
thinking. We have some great guys on the
42:00
on the weightlifting side and we're able to track force
42:02
output, understand like why we're doing certain lifts, what
42:06
the data is showing with these lifts and ultimately like how to
42:10
do that. And now, OK, we're going to
42:12
track on force plates, your counter movement jump and
42:15
understand what your force output is in different metrics
42:17
and things like eccentric braking force.
42:20
And like how how are you filling all the buckets necessary to
42:25
create a high level athlete? What were the injuries that you
42:28
had? And then just going head on with
42:30
all these specific issues and OK, what are the drills you were
42:33
doing to throw harder and to create a better, more efficient
42:38
thrower from the anatomical constraints that you have within
42:42
your body? And now how do we create this
42:46
this new program for yourself that you can lean on and
42:50
objectively track and understand where it needs to be at?
42:54
And I got to this point where I'm laying out all this stuff
42:56
and I'm like, OK, day one, let's hit all these things and let's
43:01
and let's see what it is. I'm like, OK, took me 45 minutes
43:04
to run through all of this. Took me another 30 minutes to do
43:07
lifting and all that. OK, my routine now is an hour
43:10
long and I need to go home and play Fortnite and not think
43:13
about anything else because everything I've done in track
43:17
now I know works and I'm hitting everything head on.
43:20
I don't need to be the last guy at the field anymore wasting all
43:23
my time because I know that stuff isn't working.
43:26
So I was able to lay out all this stuff and figure out like,
43:30
what am I going to be as a player now and what is my
43:32
routine going to look like that's going to yield the best
43:34
results and not give me such a headache?
43:37
I have a few responses there and I don't want to ruin the flow,
43:41
so I'm just going to address a couple and then we're going to
43:44
keep on. But first, I remember that call
43:47
vividly when you reached out about Flexpro when you're like,
43:52
wait, this is another thing that I can track going back to you
43:56
trying to figure out solutions to everything.
43:58
You finally got objective measurements.
44:00
Thankfully, we had the stars align a little bit and I guess
44:05
quasi meet at Wake Forest in a sense, at least be in the same
44:09
room. But you were able to see like,
44:12
wait, you're telling me I can now objectively measure the
44:15
things that protect my elbow? Maybe that's what I need.
44:18
So then add that to the puzzle. And I remember looking at these
44:22
paintings behind you on a Zoom call and you saying like, look,
44:27
I just got signed. I've been working for free.
44:30
I have no money. What can I do?
44:32
Like what can I do that can help me?
44:35
Because I understand I can't get Parkville grip right now.
44:38
And I remember you telling me I signed with a pro org and I said
44:41
if you're at the liberty to tell me, I totally understand if you
44:44
don't want to disclose who signed you.
44:47
And you said the Chicago Cubs and I remember saying, well, do
44:51
I have news for you being a part of the Chicago Cubs, you have
44:54
the right to use Flexpro grip at your disposal.
44:57
And you, you like kind of jaw drop to me.
44:59
Like, wait, are you serious? Yeah, man, like literally here's
45:04
the person that you are going to go up to tomorrow when you get
45:07
to the complex and say I want to use Flexpro grip.
45:10
That was a funny one for sure that I wanted to address.
45:13
Then the the next piece. And this is where I, I said I
45:17
was going to screw myself by trying to, to bite off way too
45:19
much at once. I love, love so much that you
45:23
then mentioned the shut off. Like that's so big.
45:28
So many guys get so concerned about like, just because I made
45:33
it now, like that doesn't mean I made it like I have to keep
45:36
doing. I have to like do everything to
45:39
constantly set myself above. You got to a point where you
45:41
were able to continue your own internal audit and assess what
45:45
works for you. So now you have this super
45:50
dialed routine where you can afford yourself free time.
45:56
You don't have to be Dawson Nets, the free agent sign
46:01
pitcher every single second of every single day.
46:05
You can also be the dude that likes playing video games.
46:07
You can be the guy that likes going for walks, whatever it is
46:10
you like doing, you can legitimately shut things off.
46:14
So, and now I, I want to take those couple of pieces and
46:19
everything on this like intro to pro ball and talk about the
46:23
routine. Well, I guess that that's the,
46:27
of course I'm an idiot. I said this stuff out of order.
46:29
That was going to be my #3 my number 2 was going to be.
46:34
But we'll see if I can edit this in a funky way.
46:36
My number 2 is going to be great.
46:38
Great timing on talking about the strength of the strength and
46:43
conditioning program with the Chicago Cubs because now we're
46:46
going to podcast time travel a little bit just a week ago,
46:50
which hasn't come out yet. At the time of this recording, I
46:53
had doctor Mike Sonn on the podcast.
46:56
So for those of you listening now, and if you didn't listen to
46:58
Mike Sonn, go back and listen to him talk about the amazing
47:02
things that are being done in high performance with the
47:04
Chicago Cubs. So there you have it.
47:06
You got it from Mike Sonn, the pitching scientist of the
47:09
Chicago Cubs, as well as a player internally who didn't
47:13
know that I interviewed Mike Sonn a week ago at the timing of
47:16
this. So there you go.
47:18
Good job having a organizational alignment there.
47:21
But now, now let's go back to you really honing in your
47:26
routine in kind of how that set you free.
47:30
Yeah, it just helped me to to take all the guesswork out of it
47:34
and to understand, like this is what you do.
47:38
You're not going to be Superman and you're you're not going to
47:41
sit 105. But like, how can we push the
47:44
envelope on your average fastball below?
47:46
How can we push the envelope on your force output?
47:49
And how can we get your post row routine to fill all of the areas
47:56
that you know that you need to work on in order to yield like
48:00
what a good picture looks like? And getting getting linked up
48:03
with you and and son too was like super helpful because I
48:07
didn't understand what our org had at the time.
48:11
Like I was just getting introduced to this.
48:13
I was waiting for my physicals to clear that week and I
48:17
remember just like I'm gonna call everyone that I know that
48:20
can help me with all of these things.
48:22
And I didn't understand that son was in charge of all this stuff
48:27
and ended up getting really close with him and understanding
48:29
like we have all these systems like, let's, let's help you to
48:34
use it so that we can create the best version of yourself
48:38
possible. And he really opened my eyes to
48:41
like specifically what the science is behind understanding,
48:44
like what workload management is, why we use Flex Pro and how
48:49
do we bridge the weight room with throwing with, with all of
48:53
this stuff. And just realizing like, OK, now
48:57
that I understand all this stuff like what is, what is my org
49:01
look for and what are what are major leaguers doing to get to
49:06
the big leagues and what are what are they doing at a high
49:09
level? We have some really smart dudes
49:11
here in our, in our front office that that were helping me
49:13
understand this. And it was like looking at, OK,
49:16
these guys are able to strike out more hitters on average, but
49:21
they're also not walking a lot of guys.
49:23
And if you want to get places, you got to push the envelope on
49:27
average. Fastball veto because that opens
49:30
your door up to having better secondary and then understanding
49:34
like there's something called perceived velocity.
49:37
Now we're understanding VAA and how fastballs are entering the
49:41
strike zone and, and like, OK, now that I have all these
49:44
things, my best fastballs are a little bit harder on average.
49:50
I release height is a little bit lower on average, my extensions
49:53
a little bit higher on average. And this all playing into what
49:58
I'm trying to do. And it's like, OK, now that I
50:00
understand all these things, like I'm going to push the
50:04
envelope on what I know about my arsenal and I'm going to use it
50:07
in a way to create the best picture and version of Dawson
50:12
Nets that I possibly can. And that was super liberating
50:15
for me because I was like, now I don't have to take any of this
50:18
guesswork out of it. And I'm just, I'm just going to
50:22
go as, as as hard as I can. And I'm a firm believer in the
50:25
good Lord looking out for me and opening this door for me.
50:29
And if it's not meant to be, so be it.
50:31
Like I want to be a coach. I want to help people learn
50:33
about this stuff. But if he doesn't want me here
50:35
right now, so be it. Like I'm not going to worry.
50:37
I'm not going to, I'm not going to stress about things that I
50:40
don't know. So understanding all of these
50:42
things, that was a perspective, the mindset and everything that
50:46
I had created up until that point to hit the ground running
50:50
Week 1 and jump into pro ball again as a player.
50:53
Again, a couple things I want to call to based on what you just
50:58
shared there. One, you were able to parlay
51:01
everything you just said into a pretty solid 63 2/3 innings your
51:09
rookie campaign. It looks like you started nine
51:13
of the 18 games that you appeared in.
51:15
And I know that doesn't include any of the backfield data that
51:19
you had to work through when you first got assigned to the Cubs.
51:22
And you're trying to show them that you do have a workload and
51:25
you have to work through all these different things.
51:27
But you threw over 1000 pitchers in pro ball this year across
51:31
four different levels. And it's pretty unique to see
51:34
that you were able to come in right away throwing relief as
51:38
well as go out and make starts Like so, so amazing that you
51:44
start in the complex and then you're able to go off to high A
51:48
and be a starter in South Bend and then finish the season in
51:52
AA. Like I, I'm sure that was
51:55
somewhat of a whirlwind to know that like not only, not only do
52:00
I get the chance to play pro ball, but everything that I have
52:04
done so far has enabled me to have some success in pro ball,
52:09
even even in this first years. I'm still learning and figuring
52:12
out how to keep my feet under me.
52:15
But then the the other piece that I wanted to address, you
52:18
mentioned Mike Sawn, you mentioned reaching out to me or
52:21
Ryan Yoshita or these other people.
52:23
You said anybody that you felt could help you whatsoever,
52:26
whenever that happened in your career that you realize that
52:30
that, wow, I can't get help if I don't speak up or I, I don't
52:34
know what's going to be available to me if I don't ask.
52:37
I'm sure that was liberating as well, knowing that there are so
52:40
many people that also have your best interests and are trying to
52:44
help you go as far as you can and if you don't say something,
52:50
those opportunities don't arise. I, I got to the point where I
52:55
was like, if, if I'm going to sit back and not say anything,
52:59
my career is not going to happen for me.
53:01
Like I need to go out and get what I know works.
53:04
And I was like, you know what? I don't care what people think
53:06
of me anymore. I don't care if this is awkward
53:08
or if I'm reaching out to someone in in a weird way, like
53:11
I know this works. I know what I want out of this.
53:14
I'm going to try to connect with as many people as I can who
53:18
understand baseball from this perspective and where and where
53:23
the game's moving. And ultimately, just how do I
53:25
leverage data the best in order to yield the best player I can
53:30
possibly be. And that was, that was my main
53:32
focus and I wasn't going to let anything get in the way of that.
53:36
And I think I want to make one more shift here in discussion
53:39
since we've kind of already been going at this for a while.
53:42
I don't even remember when we hit the record button, but I
53:44
know we we covered a handful of topics before we did press
53:47
record. And out of the sake of your own
53:50
throwing program today and my marriage, I probably shouldn't
53:54
stay on too much longer. So with that, the one final
53:58
shift we're going to make is loosely tied to what you were
54:02
talking about. What's going on internally with
54:04
the Cubs. It has been pretty evident on
54:08
social media if you follow the right people.
54:10
I talked about this a little bit with Mike Sawn.
54:12
The Cubs are doing some incredible stuff from a high
54:14
performance perspective. I think that's excellent for
54:17
branding. Going down this branding
54:20
discussion, organizations all do something different or they all
54:24
do roughly the same stuff. They're all trying to win
54:27
baseball games, but they all have their own unique way in a
54:30
sense that they go about it or what they value.
54:33
And you have seen this as a coach at the collegiate level,
54:38
granted for a short time, but you saw this at the collegiate
54:40
level and how you guys needed to create a brand or a plan to
54:45
express it to your players to get buy in and get people to be
54:48
successful. Now you're seeing it as an
54:50
athlete again with the Cubs who are trying to show their guys,
54:54
we have this amazing product, we have this amazing solution that
54:59
we can offer you guys that if you just participate in the
55:02
system, we know we can increase your overall output and get you
55:06
one step closer to being a major leaguer.
55:08
So now I want to just turn this over to you to talk a little bit
55:13
about something that you said you find really unique within
55:17
the game and that's kind of brand creation to recruit
55:21
players or get buy in from players to believe in the
55:25
mission that their org set forward for.
55:28
Sure. I mean, up until having this
55:30
opportunity to go out and and play again, I wanted to work in
55:33
in the front office for, for an MLB org somewhere.
55:36
And this is this is still something I'm pretty keen on and
55:39
I try to analyze and like understand, like what are the
55:42
best orgs doing? What are the orgs that are
55:44
winning World Series, going to the playoffs, playing at a high
55:48
level and not only making major leaguers for themselves, but
55:51
like trying to make major leaguers for the whole org to
55:54
create value to then trade them and create more value for
55:58
themselves? Just just looking at this it, it
56:01
seems like the best orgs are operating off of data and
56:06
analytics and understand like how do we leverage those?
56:09
But how do we holistically cultivate a program that
56:14
includes good propaganda, good branding in a way where the
56:18
players feel like they're a part of something and they're uniting
56:21
around something? And then how do we create like a
56:24
staff and coaches that are on the ground every day on the
56:28
field, talking to the front office, talking to all of our
56:31
coordinators, our scientists and understanding like, what are the
56:35
what are the analysts saying? What are the players doing?
56:38
What do we want as an org? And how do we bridge all of this
56:43
and use that to create a culture of winning and output every
56:49
single year? There isn't one thing I think
56:51
specifically that Trump's the other, but it's it's the idea
56:56
that all of it matters. And you have to create a culture
56:59
that people unite around. And hopefully one day, like I
57:03
want to, I want to be a part of something where I can help
57:05
instill this and use what I've learned, get other people to
57:10
believe in it and then ultimately unite around it so
57:12
that you can create the system that kind of policies itself.
57:16
And then all the players can almost like put their trust in
57:19
you and not overthink stuff, but understand like we're doing
57:22
these things in good faith for you guys.
57:24
We're tracking stuff. We know what a major leaguer
57:28
looks like on average from data, from output, from numbers.
57:33
And like, we can now measure success and we can do it in a
57:37
way where we're going to show you what we're doing and what we
57:41
see from you. We want you to put your trust in
57:43
us so you can just focus on working on the things that we
57:46
know work and you can just go out there and play.
57:49
Because I felt like I had to turn into the coach that I that
57:52
I never had. And it was no one's fault.
57:55
Like we were just operating off the information that we had.
57:57
But I was like, you know what? I have to be the coach that I
58:01
want to be to yield the kind of player I want to be and like
58:05
policing myself and, and having to look at and understand like
58:10
what I'm doing and analyze it and create a good product.
58:16
But I think players will thrive if they're able to understand
58:19
information, but they don't have to be their own coach.
58:21
I think everyone tries to be their own coach and it takes
58:23
their focus away from like just being a a normal human being off
58:27
the field and understanding like go to the field, get your work
58:31
in and trust the guys that are there that have your best, best
58:34
interest in mind. They're able to objectively
58:36
track like how to get you better.
58:38
But at the same time, don't overthink it because we know
58:41
what you need to do. This is the mark.
58:43
You just need to get there and we're going to show you how to
58:45
incrementally get there and then get a bunch of guys like that to
58:49
unite around the the same type of idea, the branding, the
58:53
propaganda, just so that they can understand.
58:56
Like this is what I need to do if I want to play in the major
58:58
leagues and help my org win a World Series.
59:01
Creating such a system would enable players to keep the main
59:05
thing the main thing. If that is the case, like you
59:08
said, they no longer have to be worried about where do they go
59:14
to find information or what can they do on their own, whether
59:17
it's on social media or reaching out to someone or just like
59:20
scouring their phone and the Internet for the solution to
59:23
something. If they know their organization
59:26
has something in place. Now, of course, we would be
59:30
guess short sighted not to recognize that every number,
59:35
whether we like it or not, as far as organizations are
59:38
concerned, technically kind of has a good and a bad side to it.
59:42
Because we we know what these numbers indicate.
59:45
It could be a reason to keep a guy around.
59:47
It could be a reason to get rid of a guy.
59:49
It could be a sign of something that needs to improve or it
59:52
could be a sign that a guy is trending in the wrong direction,
59:54
Which then goes back to, I think the message behind these numbers
59:59
because yes, we have to recognize as an industry that.
1:00:04
Data is powerful and it can tell a story either way.
1:00:06
It can tell a good story, you can tell a bad story.
1:00:09
But if the organization is constantly operating with the
1:00:14
perspective of trying to get every guy to the show and they
1:00:19
show that to a player. When a player believes that the
1:00:23
organization truly has their best interest, they know that
1:00:26
they are not looking for reasons then to cut said player or to
1:00:31
whatever. Dump said player, get rid of
1:00:33
them, cast them aside. They're legitimately looking to
1:00:37
create as many major leaguers as possible.
1:00:39
Let's face it, if an organization can put that in the
1:00:42
minds of the player, players aren't dumb.
1:00:44
They realize that there are only 20 however many slots depending
1:00:49
on the year to be a Major League Baseball player for their own
1:00:52
organization. But there are also 29 other
1:00:55
teams out there. And getting traded generally is
1:00:58
a good sign because it means another organization values what
1:01:03
you do and they want whatever it is that you do.
1:01:07
So getting traded is not a knock from your org.
1:01:10
It is often a massive compliment from another org saying whoa,
1:01:15
this guy does something that we don't have or has a skill that
1:01:18
we believe in. So if that becomes messaging of
1:01:23
the data like this is what we're going to do to make you a big
1:01:26
leaguer if it's with us, freaking awesome.
1:01:28
If not, we want you to go be a big leaguer elsewhere because
1:01:31
then that's a testament to what we were able to do in house.
1:01:35
So as far as like the marketing, the propaganda side goes, like
1:01:38
I'm I'm all in on what you're saying.
1:01:40
I love that concept to one of my passions when I was working as
1:01:45
AD 2 coach prior to this flex pro grip thing.
1:01:47
I'm actually reference sweatshirt today.
1:01:49
So shout out Eckerd College, but I talked a lot about re
1:01:53
recruiting like we worked so hard to bring guys in.
1:01:56
Why don't we work as hard to keep guys here or show them that
1:01:59
they did make the right choice. It always stops once you get in,
1:02:02
get them in the door. That's what it seems to be.
1:02:05
And that's a problem. You need guys to believe in the
1:02:07
system if we're actually all going to function at the highest
1:02:10
level. So I'm I'm right there with you.
1:02:13
I don't know if you want to tag team this mission one day, but
1:02:16
if you want to give me a call. But Dawson that that does it for
1:02:20
me as far as the true, I guess meat and potatoes of this
1:02:26
interview. So what I like doing with guys
1:02:30
who have some pro experience. I don't know why this became
1:02:33
tradition, but it did. Granted, you only have one year
1:02:36
under your belt at this point, so we are going to expand the
1:02:39
answer possibilities out well beyond your pro ball potential
1:02:45
answers. What is the single most unique
1:02:48
stadium or environment that you have played in in your entire
1:02:51
career? And don't feel bad saying this
1:02:54
is the toughest question that you've gotten all day because
1:02:57
that's always seems to be what guys say for whatever reason.
1:03:00
I can ask about Arsenal development and that's a snap of
1:03:04
a finger. You have it on the back of your
1:03:05
hand. But when I ask you to call back
1:03:07
on a stadium that you thought was amazing, you're just like,
1:03:10
wow, I have not thought about that in years.
1:03:14
Yeah, I got to pitch in high school at Petco Park in in San
1:03:19
Diego, and I thought that was unbelievable.
1:03:22
And my whole family was there. Had some family friends there.
1:03:25
I think that place is just beautiful.
1:03:27
And that was a pretty surreal experience, so.
1:03:30
I'll take that. That's a pretty good one.
1:03:33
That's a great one. I I typically do love when a guy
1:03:36
says like, yeah, we played at whoever's AA park the year
1:03:40
before they redid it and legitimately like someone fell
1:03:44
through the bleachers during our game or something like those.
1:03:47
Those are the answers that I love.
1:03:48
I mean, granted that that was a little bit of hyperbole when I
1:03:51
told that story there, but I love when the guys are like,
1:03:55
yeah, we played at whoever's single a affiliate and they left
1:03:58
the sprinklers on in the entire field flooded.
1:04:00
But we had to play the game anyways because of like they had
1:04:02
a concert the next day and we couldn't reschedule.
1:04:05
I find that stuff so funny. But no, Dawson, thank you.
1:04:09
You handled this interview with Grace.
1:04:10
This is tremendous. I'm looking forward to seeing
1:04:13
you in Winston Salem here in about a month.
1:04:15
It's it's been awesome to get to know you over this past year and
1:04:18
I'm excited to see what this offseason brings you now that
1:04:23
you know you truly are a professional baseball player and
1:04:27
you can keep that routine in place and only worry about
1:04:29
yourself this time around instead of 35 plus guys and it
1:04:33
dugout. So thanks again for the time
1:04:36
today. Good luck with the throwing
1:04:38
program, which I know you've held off a little bit for me to
1:04:40
hop on this call, but the this was tremendous into all the
1:04:44
listeners out there. Thanks for laying back with us.