Latest / The Art of Costume Podcast / Gotham Knights with Costume Designer, Jennifer May Nickel

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Gotham Knights with Costume Designer, Jennifer May Nickel · The Art of Costume Podcast

0:11
Do you need a grappling hook? Are you going swinging from, you
0:14
know, skyscraper to skyscraper? So I wanted to make sure that
0:19
she had the ability to change. And she also has a whole lot of
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pockets, which I think is essential.
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It's perfect and she has to stay ready so she doesn't have to get
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ready is exactly. Hello and welcome to the Art of
0:44
Costume podcast. I am your host, Spencer
0:47
Williams, and thank you so much for joining me for another extra
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special bonus episode. What's going on, costume nerds?
0:55
It's good to be talking with you all.
0:58
It's been a little while since we had a bonus episode, but it's
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been a busy summer over here for us at the Art of Costume
1:06
podcast. Lots of great things coming up,
1:09
lots of interviews that we've done recently, lots of great
1:11
articles on the Art of costume.com.
1:14
Daniel and I have been working on our YouTube, which I really
1:19
hope you'll go check out and subscribe to.
1:21
And also I just graduated. So that was, that was kind of
1:26
fun. Had a good time, got to walk
1:28
across the stage, get my diploma, you know, do that sort
1:33
of thing. But everything's kind of calmed
1:35
down now and it's back to work 'cause we got things to do.
1:39
But Speaking of, if you want to get me a graduation gift, why
1:42
don't you head on over to Apple Podcast and leave us a 5 star
1:46
text review and let us know what you think of the podcast 'cause
1:50
that really does help. And that'd make me smile.
1:52
And Elizabeth and Danny would totally be thrilled about that
1:55
also. So why not give it a shot?
1:59
But today's episode is not about me.
2:01
It is about a fantastic show which I got to watch last year,
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Gotham Nights, a series that I absolutely loved.
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It takes place in Gotham City, so of course I'm obsessed with
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it. I think that Batman universe is
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fantastic and Gotham Knights is nothing short of that.
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But before we get too deep into it, let's go behind the costumes
2:26
and start with a summary. Batman is dead and a powder cake
2:31
has ignited Gotham City without The Dark Knight to protect it.
2:35
In the wake of Bruce Wayne's murder, his adopted son Turner
2:38
Hayes is framed for his killing. With the charismatic and hard
2:42
charging District Attorney Harvey Dent and a Gotham City
2:46
Police Department hot on his trail, Turner must rely on
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allies including his best friend and formidable coder Stephanie
2:52
Brown and unlikely Batman sidekick Cary Kelly.
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However, they soon learned there is a larger, more nefarious
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force at work within Gotham City.
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This team of mismatched fugitives must band together to
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become its next generation of saviours known as the Gotham
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Knights. That's Gotham Knights.
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Let's go behind the costumes. The series showrunners were Chad
3:16
5, Ash and James Patrick Stodoro.
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The costume design for the pilot was by costume designer Natalie
3:23
Bronfman, and the rest of the episodes were designed by my
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dear friend Jennifer May Nickel. I absolutely love Jennifer.
3:34
She's become such a friend. We met last year and she has
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just been there for all of us here at the Art of Costume as we
3:42
learn and grow and just been such a supporter.
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And yeah, I just absolutely love her.
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And also it she just had a birthday too.
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So shout out to you, Jennifer. Happy birthday.
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You will know Jennifer for some of her noble work such as What
3:58
Just Happened, Containment, Legacies, Sex Expectations,
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Taylor Tomlinson, Look at you. That is one of her comedy
4:07
specials, which I think is absolutely hilarious.
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I've seen it many times. And The Cabin with Bert
4:12
Kreischer. Jennifer works with Bert
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Kreischer and you know, I'm a big fan of his.
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She's hilarious, he's hilarious. It's just my favorite duo.
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But I'm quite taken with this show.
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It has such a fantastic career and cast.
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And being Jennifer's friend, she actually has introduced me to
4:31
the lovely showrunners Chad and James, and also even Anna, who
4:34
played Stephanie Brown in the series.
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They're all magnificent. In this interview, we're gonna
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get into all the different characters, from Turner to Cary
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Harper, Colin to Harvey Dent, played by Misha Collins.
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We also get into the sinister Court of Owls.
4:51
And we even talked about the fact that Jennifer is quite
4:53
literally cannon in Gotham now, which is absolutely brilliant.
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You're gonna have to stay tuned and listen in on what I mean by
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that. And also, Jennifer and I might
5:04
have a very exciting announcement coming soon.
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So yeah, yeah, you'll just have to listen now, maybe look toward
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what's happening at San Diego Comic Con and maybe ways that
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you could hang out with me and Jennifer.
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But stay tuned for that. I hope you'll enjoy this episode
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at this interview. Jennifer has so many great
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things to share and we're gonna have a good time.
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I am so excited to introduce my friend, costume designer
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Jennifer May Nickel. Hey, Jennifer.
6:01
Hi, Spencer. Thanks for having me.
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I'm excited to be here. I'm so excited to talk to you.
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I was happy to meet you not too long ago and immediately I was
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like, we have to do an interview or a podcast, so.
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Yeah, you're, you're good at it. So, oh, I thank you.
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But first I want to start by learning a little bit more about
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you. I did a bit of stalking, light
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stalking. You hold an MFA in costume
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design from Carnegie Mellon University.
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You studied in England at Oxford University.
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I was just like, wow. So I just had to ask you, why
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costume design? Why?
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Why are you in this field? What drew you to it?
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I ever since I was little, I, I've always been like drawing
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clothes, OK? It's just the first thing that I
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took to artistically. And I've always loved like
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theater, film, television. And I didn't quite know that it
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was a field that I could actually have a career in.
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And it's been until I got into undergrad school and my
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professors were like seeing my drawings on the side of my
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notebook and stuff. And they're like, you know, you
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could be a costume designer. I was like, wait, what?
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That's. A thing.
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So they're like, why don't you just give it a try?
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Like let's do it for one of these short plays and see if you
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like it and how you feel and go from there.
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And I really, I fell in love with it right away.
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It was like everything clicked in place.
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It was, it was like when you find your soulmate career wise
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and it was the thing of I wanted to stay up all night sewing and
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draping and designing and painting and everything.
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And it was just everything I had ever wanted.
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And then turned out I was, you know, decent at it.
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And they were like, you should, you should apply for grad school
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so that you can learn more. Because our department didn't
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really have a costume design department.
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They ended up just kind of catering to help me grow and
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learn. But yeah, they suggested grad
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school. So I went to Carnegie and honed
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it all in from there. Well, I will say you're not just
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decent at it, you are brilliant at it, which is why I'm so
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excited to dive into the new show Gotham Knights on CW.
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I'm so excited to dive into Gotham Knights.
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Admittedly, I'm not as well versed in DC characters as I am
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in Marvel. However, I think there's a
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universal love for Batman and you know, Gotham City and I feel
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like you and I both kind of share nerdy qualities in the
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sense that we love this world, we love comics.
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So how does it feel to be designing costumes that carry
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that legacy of that Batman related property?
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It is just one of the coolest feelings in the world that it
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still gives me goosebumps when I think about it it.
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I realized yesterday when I was chatting with one of the
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showrunners. It's actually a year ago
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yesterday since I interviewed for the job.
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Wow. Yeah.
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Laugh it quickly. Thank you.
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And it was just when I was putting together the
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presentation and stuff for the interview, I, I was doing some
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sketches for it and everything and I was like, holy cow.
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I'm even if I don't get the job, I'm having the opportunity to
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design for Robin, like how amazing is that?
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And so it was just I definitely have a reverence towards the
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world a lot and I've been a huge Batman fan all my life.
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And so it's just been really quite lovely that I get to be a
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part of it now. Yeah, that's so exciting.
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We'll get into it later as well. But you get to design for
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characters such as Robin or Harvey Dent, characters that
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we've, you know, watched through decades and different
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iterations. So that is, that's so exciting.
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I mean, that's, that's kind of a dream, isn't it?
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I mean it, it's always been my dream to design Robin in in two
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face and I thought to do it so. And to make it even more cool,
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you are now Canon in a Gotham universe as being a high couture
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hot hot couture fashion designer as may nickel.
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This was so cool. When I saw this, I was like,
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wow, I, I, I interview a lot of costume designers, but not an
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actual designer from Gotham City.
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So what was that like? That was just the best thing
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ever. Like I don't know if I've ever
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been more proud of myself that way.
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And also my husband too. Like just the fact that I'm now
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I'm Canon and the DCU as a designer is really kind of
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awesome. It's so cool and it's such a
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great look too. So you really made your entrance
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into as one of Gotham's top premier designers quite well.
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So what I love about Gotham in general is the darkness to it.
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You know, it's a popular say, but has a edge to it.
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And I love seeing the various versions that, you know,
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creators have done with it. For example, Matt Reeves, The
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Batman was a bit more sinister and grimy, The Dark Knight,
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which you know, I love by Christopher Nolan was a bit more
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contemporary, and the Tim Burton films are very campy and kooky
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and over the top. So how did you prepare in terms
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of developing the sort of look for Gotham that you were going
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for? Visually, it was really kind of
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amazing how we were just all on the same page very early on in
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the process of the look, when I got the look books from the
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production designers and the DP, and it was very much in line of
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what I'd already been thinking, what the showrunners had been
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conveying. And so we were all visually kind
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of in that same place of a little art Deco, a little Blade
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Runner, a little, you know, The Dark Knight, the Nolan things
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with, with still the grit and grime of the Matt Reeves Batman.
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But that we wanted to keep everything a bit more grounded
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in reality. But it's still our own unique
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Gotham. It's our own unique take on it
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that still pays homage to the others.
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Right, it's it definitely has a little bit of an edge to it, but
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still has a little bit of a sophistication to it.
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So let's get into some of our favorite characters, starting
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with Turner Hayes, Bruce Wayne's adopted son.
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I feel like you can see a lot of that classic Bruce Wayne dress
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in this character, but you still got to add a little bit of a
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punk to it. So what was your concept behind
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this character? So for Turner, because he, you
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know, he was adopted by Batman after his parents were killed,
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that there is this sense of privilege to him now because
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he's had Bruce Wayne's wealth. But in the moment in our show,
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since Batman is dead and he is now a fugitive, he doesn't have
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access to the power and wealth. And so part of him is in a place
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of reverting a little more towards his past and who he used
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to be before he was Bruce Wayne's son.
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So he starts to dress a little bit more like his actual parents
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and the way he dressed before Bruce Wayne was in his life.
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And so it's just that like subtle taking it back and then
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also creating a bit of creature comfort comforts for him so that
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he doesn't change a lot clothing wise.
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Like he, he has his staple pieces that he it's, it's his
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comfort blanket that he wears, especially his jackets.
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Like he always has to have his jacket on because the thing like
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that makes him feel safe. It's a good jacket.
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And and it's going back to some of those classic lines,
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especially for him, all of our Gotham, we tried to create a
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universal sense of timelessness, vintage elements throughout the
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show and throughout different characters at different times.
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And his tends to take on more of like a 1940s and 50s like worker
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kind of style. And you haven't gotten there.
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But in episode 109, you get to meet Turner's parents in a way.
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And so it hopefully, I think pays off to the audience of, OK,
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now you get to see where where Turner's style has come from,
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where the simplicity of his clothes.
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But it has a classic feel to it at the same time.
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You can feel the little bits of vintage in there.
15:16
Fascinating. Such a fun character and
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honestly I think favorite in terms of costumes.
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I feel like I see a lot of my future wardrobes looking a lot
15:25
like IS. A lot of Tom Snyder.
15:30
Yeah. Oh, nice to know.
15:33
Probably shocking to no one listening to this podcast.
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My favorite, my favorite character was Duela, the
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daughter of the Joker. I love her style.
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It's very punk. I also see like Blade Runner
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influences in it, and I also believe that she has a comic
15:50
book background. So tell me about bringing this
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character into live action. So with her comic book
15:57
background, it like she has such a rich character and it is a
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twisted character very, I mean, just the Joker's daughter.
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So but in her way of kind of doing that, she would mess up
16:17
her face in the comic books as a way of making herself look
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beautiful and paying tribute to her dad, the Joker.
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And so we weren't, you know, necessarily going to be doing
16:32
that on our show. Take a step back a little bit.
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Because it definitely gets very gruesome in the comments
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depending on which one you're reading.
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And but there was I wanted to find a way of honoring that also
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within her character and it was a great place to go with in her
16:53
clothes. Is that she just any iteration
16:56
of clothing that she inevitably has stolen from somewhere?
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She kind of funks it up in her own way and something that
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might, you know, the average consumer would find beautiful as
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it is, she goes and makes it her own.
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And so she could spend, well, not spend, she would steal a
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$5000 jacket and then tear holes in it and add safety pins and,
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you know, just do spray painted up and all of that.
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So anything that she wears, she's constantly she's stolen
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it. And then we called it, dualified
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it. It's yeah, it's it's her nervous
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taking away. We see her as like an insomniac
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here while everyone else is sleeping.
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Since she's also a fugitive and can't really do too much, she's
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like stealing the other, like, students clothes from school and
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funking them up and making them her own.
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And yeah, doing all the cool funky things to it.
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Like her as you have in the photo there?
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Her little Gotham City jacket. Oh, that's such a great jacket,
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by the way. I fell in love with it.
18:13
Thank you. So there's definitely, it's like
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there's a lot of Duela in me and then like also a lot of Harper
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in me. And my husband and I joked of
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like, I dressed like Harper on the average, but if I could
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always dress like Duolla, I probably would.
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I feel like that's probably true for most of us.
18:37
She is the coolest, but the Gotham Knights would not be
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complete without Robin. Who you mentioned is someone you
18:44
want to work with. I love this look because it has
18:47
a more practical take on the classic Robin look.
18:50
You know, he's not wearing tight spandex and A and a mask, but
18:53
there's still elements to it that say Robin to me, like the
18:56
colors, for example. So what was your approach to
18:59
designing the Robin character? So I wanted, well, we all wanted
19:04
to make sure that she felt grounded and real in our
19:09
universe like this. She's not just popping up in a
19:12
superhero suit because it's not exactly right where she is.
19:17
Batman took her, you know, under his wing.
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But he was teaching her. She wasn't really supposed to be
19:25
fully out there in crime and acting as a vigilante.
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He was showing her the ropes, but she didn't quite have all
19:33
the tools yet. And in episode 2, you kind of
19:38
see her, you know, taking a few of the tools from Wayne Tower.
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So, you know, she has something. But but we wanted it to feel
19:50
like this is, you know, a teenage girl who is secretly
19:56
quietly doing all of this. She doesn't have resources to,
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you know, have. She doesn't have Lucius Fox
20:05
making all of this for her. Like.
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So. We're making it work.
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Yeah, like making it feel real, feel real to her character, her
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practicality, making it form and function at the same time.
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But something that you can also believe a teenager would have
20:25
put together themselves and Carrie as a character and then
20:32
Navia as a person. They're both like very practical
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and I really wanted to lean into that for this of her costume is
20:42
something that can be molded for any need that Robin has and that
20:47
every episode she can change out what pouches she's wearing.
20:51
She can change out what weapons she has on both her utility belt
20:55
and her bandolier, and she is ready for whatever fight.
21:00
You know, it's it's a difference between fighting the mutants and
21:04
fighting a Talon. There's different things that
21:06
you need for each situation. Do you need a grappling hook?
21:09
Are you going swinging from, you know, skyscraper to skyscraper?
21:12
So I wanted to make sure that she had the ability to change.
21:16
And she also has a whole lot of pockets, which I think is
21:20
essential. That's perfect, and she has to
21:23
stay ready so she doesn't have to get ready.
21:28
And that's exactly, you know, what's behind her look.
21:33
Yeah, I love it. Probably one of my favorite
21:35
characters. I would love to talk about the
21:37
Row siblings, starting with Harper, another badass
21:41
character, also with an edgy style that also feels like we
21:45
could see it, you know, in modern day 2023 perhaps.
21:49
So what was your approach to this?
21:51
Harper is, like from the comics, my favorite of the nights.
21:57
OK. 'Cause she fights for the
21:59
underdog. And it was actually something I
22:02
mentioned in my interview for the job, the way she fights for
22:07
and protects Colin. It's something that I really
22:11
admire. And I was always the one in
22:14
grade school standing up to the bullies for my friends.
22:17
And it was something that, like in her arc, I just absolutely
22:23
love. And I love that she's a mechanic
22:25
and an engineer and that she just has this cool style that's
22:29
edgy. But also, again, functional and
22:32
practical because she knows she's going to get dirty.
22:35
She doesn't need to be wearing like something frilly.
22:38
She is more comfortable in a coverall ready to go.
22:43
So that's one of the things I love about her, adding the funky
22:46
style into that too. So you, since you see it some of
22:51
yourself in some of these characters in costumes, would
22:54
you say that there is a collaborative process between
22:56
you and the actors who are bringing these costumes to life?
22:59
Very much so, yes. I mean, it's always a
23:03
collaboration with everybody and, you know, with these
23:07
characters because of both their comic background, but then also
23:14
we're still in our own unique world.
23:16
We, it was the discussion of, OK, what elements do we want to
23:20
keep? What, what are you bringing to
23:22
the plate? Like, we don't want to do a
23:24
literal translation of it. We want to keep the homage to
23:29
the comic book characters. But how, how are we pushing it
23:32
forward into our Gotham and the things that we all feel?
23:38
And so with Harper, it was keeping the elements of the
23:43
coveralls and practicality, but also adding in a little more
23:48
color, a little more funkiness, showing a little more of an edge
23:52
where she's not necessarily the T-shirt kind of gal she often is
23:58
in the comic books. But we do add the elements in
24:02
there here and there when it works.
24:04
Yeah, have a bit of fun with it. I love Cullen's costumes.
24:09
They're the most relatable. I can see myself in costumes.
24:13
What was the inspiration? It feels very, like I said,
24:15
modern relabel. Looking at some of your mood
24:17
boards you put together. Yeah, it his I would say is
24:22
actually the closest to the comic book character in the
24:25
beginning because his arc on our show is a little bit different
24:31
than in the comics at that moment.
24:33
But it's starting where he as 1A fugitive and a trans man is a
24:42
little more hesitant to be seen. And so he's a little more inward
24:46
covered quite as in your face as maybe some of the other
24:52
characters like Duela. Graphic Tees, sometimes a little
24:56
bit baggier fits. Yes, exactly.
25:00
Having the layers on too. And then we slowly throughout
25:04
the season start to change his clothing to be more fitted more.
25:10
And we're growing into the role of both being a superhero as
25:14
well as wanting to be seen. And so he gets, you know, powder
25:20
of himself and his growth and who he is as the season goes on
25:24
because he's a Gotham Knight and he starts to own it.
25:28
And we really push that once his character starts to get there,
25:32
which is kind of right after, like, you're where you stopped.
25:37
OK, so I still have a little bit of a journey.
25:39
I'm excited. And it just builds throughout
25:43
the season. Perhaps there's nothing creepier
25:46
than a masked cult, especially when they're guarded by a large
25:52
assassin named the Talon. So tell me about the Court of
25:57
Owls and the Talon. Because when I was looking at, I
26:00
was like, oh, this is fun costuming, very scary.
26:03
And I think what's kind of creepy about, too, is that
26:05
they're clearly, you know, established establishment
26:08
characters in the very proper suiting, which makes it
26:11
creepier, honestly. Yes, yes, I they are my favorite
26:17
mass group of villains in the Gotham world.
26:22
Like I love that comic series. It's just the run.
26:26
It is one of my absolute favorites.
26:28
I gotta get it. But when I heard that the show
26:31
was going to highlight that, I was like, oh, please, I really
26:34
want to be able to do this. It's just like, you know, I
26:41
they're just so creepy and in the comics.
26:45
And so to be able to bring that to life on screen was definitely
26:50
one of the most fun things I got to do.
26:53
My team and I worked very hard on it.
26:55
And it's one of those cool things where this is really
26:59
where we got to bring a lot of the vintage elements into the
27:03
show and help it give even more of that timeless vibe that I've
27:08
been talking about. The court.
27:11
We dress the court members themselves in a more lighter
27:18
palette than a lot of the rest of in the show.
27:23
They're a bit more austere and pristine.
27:26
You can tell they're rich from and it is that generational
27:33
wealth that I really kind of tried to dig into clothing wise
27:39
for them because in Gotham, the Court of Owls has been around
27:44
for, you know, centuries. And these people have inherited
27:49
their position in the court from, you know, their
27:52
grandfather's grandfather. And it was essential to me to
27:57
really hone in on that and show that they're that different kind
28:02
of upper crust than some of the other wealthy of Gotham are.
28:06
And so creating the like alley color palette that you see on
28:10
screen, it was very important using creams, metallics, you
28:16
know, softer Browns, things of that nature like rays, tweeds,
28:21
everything that just feels old and creepy.
28:25
Yeah, it's fascinating that, you know, using a brighter color
28:29
palette on these characters. It's what made them creepier
28:31
because they stood out, you know, against the rest of
28:33
Gotham, which I don't want to hang out with these people.
28:36
Their their clothing is clean, whereas you know, when you get
28:40
down to the bottom, Duela and she's very gritty and right.
28:45
So I like showing the difference of that.
28:48
And then with the masks, it was fun getting to design those.
28:54
They're so cool. Yeah, I wanted it to have the
28:59
feeling of the statues in the Haunted Mansion if you go on the
29:04
ride and the they're the busts that the eyes just follow you no
29:10
matter what position you're in. Yeah, that's how I wanted the
29:14
masks to feel. And I felt like I you know, I
29:19
felt it when I was there on but and it's the a centimeter of a
29:26
difference on the way the eyes are.
29:29
It just changes everything. And it was a fun process with
29:33
the show runners and our Co creator of showing them.
29:37
OK, this is just the slightest move and this is how it takes it
29:40
more sinister and keeping the brow furrowed and keeping the
29:45
cheekbone arched and all of that.
29:48
Like all of the little things that keep it looking like an
29:51
owl, but also that it could be, you know, a mask that is around
29:58
150 years old, so. Very spooky, but even spookier
30:04
perhaps is when the Talon smashes into the scene.
30:07
What a what a creepy character who had a really interesting
30:13
suit too and looking at the mask and the different textiles and
30:16
fabrics that were in this suit. So how did this piece come
30:19
together? I have to say, I loved designing
30:24
him so much and it it's just going to always be one of my
30:30
favorite things because there's just such a richness to the
30:34
Talon and such an extra creepiness to him with that
30:39
weirdo mask, you know? Yeah, I feel like I want to have
30:43
a good time with him, Yeah. Like you just, you just know
30:48
that he's going to like funk some things up and you got to be
30:52
careful. So one of the first things we
30:56
started with idea wise was looking at the Talons from the
31:01
comic books. Also looking at the Talon that
31:04
is actually in the Gotham Knights game, which we as our
31:09
own world have nothing to do with it.
31:12
We're not a part of that. But the talent does happen to be
31:15
in there and it's a cool one. And so looking at the different
31:19
Talons that have existed, interested, but then applying
31:23
what we liked into our own universe.
31:25
And with this talent, he is, because we're really leaning
31:31
into the vintage aspect of the court.
31:36
I wanted to lean into that aspect for him too, because
31:41
you'll find out in the series that this guy has been around
31:45
for a while and so he's had this talent costume for quite some
31:52
time. And there are gold elements
31:56
throughout him that I always thought of as being a conductive
32:01
property since metals conductive and the gold is something that
32:07
helps keep him warm and alive and and.
32:12
Interesting. And so it's like everything to
32:18
him also has that purpose, but it has the visual scariness at
32:25
the same time that the court does because, you know, you'll
32:29
learn more about the talent as the rest of the season goes on.
32:33
But there he does have a, you know, someone designed him and
32:39
he has a reason for a lot of what's going on there, but
32:44
because he's a bit of a nightmare and a legend, like,
32:48
does the talent exist? He he's a thing of children's
32:52
nursery rhymes. So he has to have that visually.
32:56
Like, I don't know what that is, but I don't want to go near it,
32:59
you know? Yeah, that's an understatement.
33:03
Yeah. And so keeping his hood, having
33:07
that executioner's hood feeling to it was important to the
33:11
showrunners. All of the Talon's various
33:15
blades that he uses on his victims, keeping those close and
33:19
at the ready was important. And then having the elements of
33:23
showing the Court of Owls, like on his gauntlet, we have the
33:27
Court of Owls face embossed into the leather.
33:32
And so it's showing those little elements that kind of just ties
33:37
everything together. And he too is a very functional
33:42
sign of the blades at the ready, every shape and kind.
33:50
And one of the things that I actually really love the most
33:53
about his costume is we engineered that his Cortana
34:00
blades actually disappear behind his Cape.
34:04
So when he puts his blades away, you see the very top of the
34:09
Cortana sheets pure underneath the Cape beautifully.
34:14
And it it helps keep the creepiness of the Cape going
34:20
too. So it's functional, practical
34:23
and fashionable, but I have it any.
34:27
Other way? Well, I hope we get to see this
34:31
costume in a in a museum or something soon because it is so
34:34
cool. I love.
34:36
It I love it. We we mixed like six or seven
34:41
different Leathers together. The different, we had four
34:46
different fabrics in addition to those Leathers.
34:49
It was a whole lot of awesomeness and I found a really
34:53
great stretch pleather that, well, it's more of like a vinyl,
34:58
but it had Goyard style tea in it that I loved.
35:03
And so I was like, well, this is just perfect for the talent.
35:07
A lot of fun, but how perfectly creepy?
35:11
There were a lot of large scenes that had many background actors,
35:14
especially when we were at Gotham Academy or the gala that
35:17
we were talking about at. So tell, talk to me about your
35:21
team and how you all work together to, you know, bring
35:24
together all these scenes 'cause it.
35:26
It's a lot of costumes. It's a lot of costumes and you
35:31
know, with the first year show, it's a lot of running guns too,
35:35
because you're figuring all of it out as you go.
35:39
Nothing's really been established quite yet.
35:42
And so you're really trying to figure out the world, the sets
35:46
and everything. And under ATV timeline, which
35:49
has, you know, is very fast. So it was a lot of work, but so
35:54
much fun in the way of again, because the production designer,
36:00
the DPS, the showrunner, the Co creator and our producing
36:05
director, we all were really on a good cohesive page from the
36:09
beginning that it made the process, you know, go a bit
36:14
easier than maybe other people might experience on other shows.
36:19
Our showrunners just fantastic in the way of communication,
36:23
very clear on what their thoughts and expectations were,
36:27
and really loved everybody else's enthusiasm too.
36:32
Like we were all just so excited to be getting to play in the
36:36
world of Gotham and they they were too, and we all embraced it
36:42
together. And so working with the
36:45
production designer and set decorator, my team and I just
36:49
really gelled with them very well.
36:52
And we had a great line of communication where I would send
36:55
them my mood boards of what I was thinking, tones, colors, and
36:59
everything along that line. And they would send me back what
37:03
they were thinking too. And 9.9 times out of 10 we were
37:09
already on the same page, which made it so easy and wonderful
37:17
and. So.
37:18
Yes, which was great. And then with my team, so
37:25
Marissa, my assistant costume designer, and I would start with
37:29
building the boards. And then because there were so
37:32
many boards, sometimes our key costumer would also join in and
37:36
helping with the boards to gather everything in the images
37:39
and bringing together the color palettes.
37:42
I have never done such intense color palette boards as I have
37:49
on this show because of the different delineations.
37:55
We were really trying to show between the court wealthy, which
37:59
is the generation of wealth, the new wealth of Gotham and then
38:04
the average Gothamite and then the low street level Gothamite.
38:09
And so we had all those different color schemes going on
38:14
as well as bringing in all of the vintage elements to it.
38:19
With our Academy, we are keeping it.
38:23
It's a bit, you know, has that like English kind of feel to it
38:28
or the Academy. And you know, for the most part,
38:32
like with Natalie's beautiful costume design for the pilot, we
38:37
catch that. But then we also brought in the
38:40
Plaid that is actually in the comics for Gotham Academy.
38:44
So bringing that like little nod in there and then adding like
38:51
the different elements of Ties and all of that because we
38:55
wanted to make sure there was a good range, not going how much
39:01
we'd be seeing the Academy. And we wanted to keep it that we
39:06
could kind of utilize all the different uniform options, but
39:12
keeping the tight color palette of blacks, cool Grays, cool
39:17
Blues and golds and silvers. And so just keeping them all
39:22
together, but creating a nice Christine mix that looks like,
39:28
you know, they went to Eton's. Well, it really came out
39:32
beautifully. It's such an expansive world,
39:35
and it really speaks to the talent of your team and everyone
39:38
having to work together and being in that same mindset,
39:41
going through all these crazy different scenes.
39:45
Now we only have two questions here.
39:46
We're wrapping up. Thank you for posting so much on
39:49
your Instagram by the way, it really helped.
39:52
Well, my team worked so hard on this, like we all had such a
39:55
love and commitment to this show that I really wanted to
39:59
celebrate it. And so there's there's even more
40:01
to come. Like I've been busy in the last
40:04
few weeks, but I'm starting to get back into the role of
40:08
posting again. Right.
40:10
I mean, it's like a full time job.
40:11
It is. Well, Harvey Dent is the
40:14
character that appears from time to time in Batman properties.
40:17
Everyone knows Harvey Dent two face, so this must have been
40:21
exciting character to costume just for you entering this
40:23
world. It's Harvey Dent, so this must
40:26
have been exciting it. Was, I mean, Harvey Dent is one
40:30
of my absolute favorite characters to begin with.
40:34
Nice. And that we were, you know,
40:37
loosely taking elements from the long Halloween, which is the one
40:43
like it. That's my favorite that and
40:45
comic. So I was just super duper
40:50
excited to be getting to work on Harvey.
40:53
But you know, the grounded Harvey, as we might say, like
40:59
Misha's already set out of the press.
41:01
He's like, not, not Tommy, not his Harvey.
41:06
Right, that's a bit more campy. Yeah.
41:09
And we're not that like we have fun elements to it, but he is
41:13
real and grounded. And it's, you know, we have the
41:17
nods to the mental instability that he has going on, but we're
41:23
not going in a like, you know, cartoonish kind of way.
41:28
Right. That's so cool.
41:29
I'm like, so happy for you. Like, it's so cool that you got
41:34
to be a part of this. Yeah, I I very much had a lot of
41:39
fun, especially with his character of getting into the
41:42
subtle details of Two Face and Harvey and helping to slowly
41:49
show the split that goes on throughout the season and having
41:53
just like a sophisticated way of telling it where his tie knots
41:58
get more and more complicated and more unhinged as the season
42:03
goes on. And, you know, he's wearing
42:06
different accessories that show like 2 tones to it and, you
42:11
know, having two patterns fighting each other.
42:15
And yeah, so there's a lot of like, subtle, cool elements of
42:20
bringing that in. And he you see them start to get
42:24
a bit more colorful as the season goes on too, instead of
42:27
just staying in the Navy Blues kind of tone.
42:31
To see. More teals coming into play and
42:34
more purples coming into play and it we get to go in a really
42:39
fun place. And like I have to say, the
42:43
coolest thing is the two faced costume to come because I ended
42:49
up because of the nature of television and everything, it
42:53
ended up being me turning it into the two phase stuff over a
42:59
weekend in my at my place in Atlanta.
43:03
Wow. Oh my gosh, I can't wait for
43:05
that. It's one of my babies, let me
43:06
tell you. That's so cool.
43:10
Well, I mean, just talking about all this, I'm just so excited.
43:14
Clearly, this was something you're very passionate about.
43:16
So as we wrap up, I want to ask you, what did this project mean
43:20
to you, looking back at just this, this wild project that
43:24
clearly meant so much to you? It it truly it, it meant
43:29
everything to me. It is still.
43:32
I mean, here we are a year later and I just can't say enough
43:37
about how much I loved it. I loved it not just because of
43:42
the world of Batman that we got to live in, which that alone
43:47
would have done it for me, but my amazing, amazing crew that I
43:52
love so very much. We put all of our hearts and
43:57
souls into the show and the fact that, you know, even though it's
44:02
a crazy first year schedule, they kept showing up and showing
44:06
out for me. They kept believing in my
44:09
designs and, you know, wanting to make this the best they could
44:15
possibly make it even, you know, when everyone is exhausted from
44:21
lack of sleep in TV hours, it wouldn't look this great without
44:26
them so. Well, just like these characters
44:29
being on the run, your team was also on the run the entire time,
44:32
so. Yeah, and our actors, it has
44:36
been the best group of actors that I have gotten to work with.
44:40
Truly like the guest stars even coming in, everybody was just so
44:45
lovely, so collaborative and so such a just joyful place to be.
44:52
And it came from the showrunners down I.
44:56
It was just a wonderful show and while we were all exhausted, we
45:01
all love it. I am so happy for you, Costume
45:06
designer Jennifer Maynickel. Thank you so much for joining
45:09
this. Is this been such a great
45:11
conversation. I'm just so happy for you.
45:13
This is so great and it's such a great show and I hope everyone
45:16
continues to tune in and check out all these brilliant
45:18
costumes. Thank.
45:20
You. The Art of Costume podcast is
45:26
hosted and produced by Elizabeth Joy Glass and Spencer Williams.
45:31
Our audio engineering and editing is done by Dan White.
45:35
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45:41
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45:49
For more podcast updates, costume reviews, deep dives and
45:54
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45:58
dedicated to highlighting the best in costume design.