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Creating an Authentic Work Culture with Leadership Expert, Maree Burgess · Authentic Living

• 0:01
  Welcome to authentic living with Roxanne, a place where we have as conversations about
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  things that really matter in our lives.
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  And now here's your host, Roxanne Derhodge.
• 0:36
  Hi, everyone.
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  It's Roxanne Durhard of authentically being with Roxanne.
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  Thanks for tuning in again this week.
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  Today, I have a special guest Mary Burgess, and she's in Australia.
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  So we were talking.
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  She looks so lovely when I look at her and 6 o'clock there.
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  So we I'm so glad that you took the time to get up this early to start your day a bit earlier,
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  to be with us today.
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  So thanks for being here.
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  Okay.
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  So let me tell you a little bit about Marie and her background, which is, you know, at the time
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  we had set this up, you know, we knew that there was an alignment, but obviously now with
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  different things going on, we thought that there would be a bit more, affinity to certain
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  things that we can discuss.
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  So she talks about team performance and organizational excellence being vital, and it's
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  a must to engage people, projects, and change specialists she's a trainer, coach,
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  facilitator, author, and speaker, who particularly, practically guides leaders into
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  the teams to create the culture, you desire, and, importantly, they want to be a part of,
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  which greatly moves performance.
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  She has run her business since 2003.
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  So that's a that's a quite a long time.
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  So you've been doing this kind of work, What guide did you 2 become involved in
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  organizational consulting?
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  So it really, I I've got a bit of an eclectic career because I actually started my working
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  journey as a a nurse in a major hospital here in Melbourne.
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  And then decided to take 12 months off and work in an office so I could work normal hours and
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  not wear shift work.
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  And of course, I never went back as you do.
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  And I never went back to to nursing because I just fell in love with the the the dynamic
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  nature of being part of an organization.
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  And then my, you know, my first experience of being part teams that stay together for a while
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  because when you're hospital trained and nursing, you're in teams that change every 4 or
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  5 weeks or even daily because you're all rostered on and stuff like that.
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  So I spent a long time in in the corporate world and particularly in banking.
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  And, realized after having children and because I was working part time, my role was getting
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  narrow and narrow, and I couldn't understand why I was so unhappy, which I've never never
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  disliked any job I'd been in and, you know, did some, did some voluntary work within the
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  organization.
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  I was in at the time, learned some coaching, became part of you know, supporting their
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  graduate program.
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  And that's when I realized that I was actually doing the wrong thing.
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  And basically what I wanted to do was start a coaching business, which has now more them to
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  to training and facilitating.
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  And the nice thing about that is is it's it's not looking after the ill health of people, but
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  it's very aligned what I used to do as a nurse, which was to provide the best care and service
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  that I that I could.
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  So it's just become It's not a natural progression, but it felt very natural for for
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  me to to move into this sphere.
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  And having spent a long time in corporates and being part of a lot of teams, I was always
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  perplexed around why people got stuck in teams that they, and they were very unhappy.
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  Why leaders always and still do always have someone in their team pretty much that's that
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  is perceived as difficult.
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  And I just got really curious about that.
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  So now I really specialize in how to help people create and be part of a team that they
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  actually do wanna be traveled and actually enjoy going to work every day even though
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  they're not going to work at the moment because we're working from home.
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  Yeah.
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  So you're going getting up having your coffee, maybe your quick breakfast and you're going to
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  your your office or your living room that you reconfigured into an office, which is a a
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  change that, a lot of people have had to make full time you know, myself, same thing.
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  I worked a lot from home, but now, you know, this is what I where I am full time.
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  So let's let's pivot back to what you talked about.
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  Why is it that oftentimes teams have 1 or maybe 2 people that create such dissension that's
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  that spins a team.
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  Talk to speak a little bit to that because I'm sure most people, and I know I've been on many
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  teams in my career where you could see it happen speak to
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  a little bit about that and kind of what you know about that and what happens to people like
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  that and how it impacts the teams.
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  Yeah.
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  Look, there's just such a range of reasons why people don't fall into sync with a team or are
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  disenchanted So it could be they've just been part of the organization for a really long
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  time, and they've jaded, and they've seen a lot of change.
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  And it's almost like they're sitting there going, come on.
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  We've seen happened before.
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  It didn't work then.
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  Why would it happen now?
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  So there's a whole there's a whole, you know, a lot of history around that, and I work with a
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  lot of organizations that even now with the turnover of people, we have an organization,
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  see some people that have been in organizations with decades.
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  And if they don't stay fresh and have that love of learning, they become, you know, as Carol
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  Dwick calls it, has that fixed mindset and they just can't see anything else.
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  So that's that's troubling.
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  But then you can have a lack of trust.
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  And I've always been part of great teams and always been part of the teams I was part of,
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  except for one team, which was laid in my corporate career, and I couldn't work out why
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  we weren't working.
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  We just, you know, we were nice, nice to each other.
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  It was very surface level stuff.
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  But when, when I did dive into it and we actually could find out what was going on, it
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  was because there was two people in that team that actually distrusted each other and really
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  didn't like each other, but they smoothed it over.
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  So people, other people in the team couldn't see that.
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  And so there was never any authenticity.
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  So I love the fact that you look for authentic authenticity in leadership or help provide that
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  because if you don't have that, if you don't have trust, then you get clicks forming.
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  So you know, and again, seniority has a lot to do with it.
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  So you get all the bad behavior that can occur when people are very junior because they don't
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  realize the impact on the people around them.
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  But as people get more senior, they can also be hacked really badly as well because they've all
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  got their own agendas.
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  As people, we're slippery little suckers and we we are not often open, authentic, transparent,
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  and and there's so much miscommunication.
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  Totally for reasons.
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  Absolutely so.
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  And to your point, you know, I was I I'm writing my second book on on the topic of
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  authenticity and leadership.
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  And, you know, when you kind of look at it, you know, we look up to your leaders to give that
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  be that guidepost to permissive behavior.
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  And, unfortunately, and I've been on teams you know, I was part of a hospital team, where I
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  was entering as the leader and some of the behaviors on that team, at time was quite
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  infantile.
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  A best.
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  You know, but I I think, you know, some of it was the fact that leadership prior to allowed a
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  lot of nepotism and you know, triangulation and didn't resolve conflicts that kinda permeated
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  the teams.
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  And it it it really I I I think that's a lot of teams, and I don't know if you would agree.
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  Sometimes if leadership does not intervene in a way that digs out, you know, the root of the
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  dandelion, the toxicity really gains momentum.
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  Right?
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  And then a lot of people get away with bad behavior, they put up with bad behavior, all
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  those things.
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  So, you know, when you're going in to work with teams, and you're going into an organization,
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  Marie, what how are you are you doing an organizational kind of snapshot of the teams
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  you're working with prior to deciding to work with it, or how do you kind of, and what how do
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  you get brought into organizations
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  to work with their teams?
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  Yeah.
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  So, look, there can be a range of reasons and at the moment because, I have such a focus on
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  delegation because because you're right, a lot of problems, there's 2 things we really poor
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  at.
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  We're we're poor at having difficult conversations, and we're very poor at asking
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  what if questions.
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  And so people would rather avoid having a conversation with someone that perhaps is
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  troublesome or colored people who are not getting along and just hope that it goes away.
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  And it, as you said, it just festers and intensifies.
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  And then that later might move on to perhaps something more senior or move on to another
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  organization.
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  And a new leader comes in and they inherit that bad behavior.
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  And and often that's the most challenging thing because tell me they've gotta have
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  conversations that they weren't expecting in the sort of their 1st 90 days of being in a
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  role because people just would rather avoid having that difficult conversation.
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  So we're not coming to, organizations, it's usually at the lead level where I'm doing one
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  on one work with them or as you said in in teams.
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  Sometimes rarely, but sometimes I do work with whole organizations if they're sort of medium
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  sized.
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  And the first thing I will do is if it's feasible, it's not always feasible if there's
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  2,000,000 numbers, but have one on ones with each person that will be part of whatever I'm
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  doing, whether it's a 6 month program or a a one day workshop to go what's really going on.
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  So I guess I go in with a positive intent that, I don't want to be seen as a fixer because I
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  don't my the toxic teams are the ones I don't wanna work with because they're the hardest to
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  move.
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  I actually love working with performing teams.
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  They're going, how can you do even better and often it's just a few tweaks.
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  But yeah, during the one on one conversations and usually they're only 20 minutes, but it's
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  to find out What's the theme that's going on?
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  Because everyone's got their own individual stuff, but what's the theme going around for
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  that or that that team and you either bring it out and give it air or, you give them some
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  skills to do that themselves.
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  Right.
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  Because sometimes, like, I recently I was doing a bit of consulting and I was brought into an
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  organization, but it was a there was it was through a third party and they, you know, they,
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  like, the CEO said absolutely bring her in.
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  She has the expertise.
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  We're willing to do whatever it takes and, you know, senior managements ready and and we're
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  just gonna work with all our teams.
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  And, so I said, great.
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  I said, so I wanted to do, basically, and I'd reach out prior to to the senior team have
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  really good conversations.
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  I know there was a lot of of change and and things that weren't done well.
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  So, of course, what, unfortunately, as I got going with the the CEO didn't she didn't
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  explicitly make, her intentions made.
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  She basically wanted to brush everything away.
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  So here I am.
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  I'm going in and talking to the teams about, okay.
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  Like, alright.
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  So there's been a lot.
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  And things aren't going so well, and things have not been so done so well.
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  However, where do we need to pivot to the future?
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  Giving them a bit of space to be able to air because they've been told, that's my role.
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  But let's kinda bridge and figure out the next step to get out of of the storm.
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  People were, I would say they were quite forthcoming, but what ended up happening, it
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  was on fortunate.
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  They did for reverberation of what the CEO wanted, was.
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  I don't like that they are bringing up things that they're contentious about that's putting
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  in them in the past, but she couldn't recognize potentially that really, you know, prior to
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  making change, you have to allow people that voice.
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  And I don't know if you would agree with that, Marie.
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  Be able to say, you know, this was cruddy.
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  This was so horrible.
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  And blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.
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  And then eventually as they went on, what happened is they kinda, you know, I often say
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  that the dissenters rise to the top when when there's no more validity anymore once they've
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  been put on that stage.
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  And what start to happen is eventually, you know, the real core concerns came out, and the
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  people that were just like, I I'm gonna say the 2% that just wanted to keep them there
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  Eventually, people kinda start to look at them for what it was, and they were ready to work.
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  But, unfortunately, the alignment between where the CEO her perception of things and where
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  things needed to go was out of alignment.
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  So needed I didn't work with them full time.
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  So it's it's that's unfortunate at times.
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  Right?
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  Because it it would have meant a lot of work, long term work, but it it regardless of what
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  the employees and the teams had been through, they were willing to work.
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  Yeah.
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  And look, that's the other thing.
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  The the the person that says come in and fix fix my team but they actually wouldn't wanna be
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  hands off.
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  Or you're right.
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  They don't wanna dive into no.
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  No.
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  Don't go back into the past, because we don't need to go there.
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  Well, actually, yes, you do.
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  You've gotta get it out in the open.
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  It's gonna cause angst and anxiety, but we're gonna talk about this and then go, okay.
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  Time to move on.
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  Absolutely.
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  So I think, you know, in retrospect, because it was a third party, I I figured I'd my due
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  diligence would add a shift in how I approach things now when there's a third party to make
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  sure that I get the proper information that I need to prior to going in.
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  You know?
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  So let's so, obviously, the base that we know with teams is that they need to experience
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  their team members as being transparent.
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  And to your point about leadership, they also need to be able to experience that with their
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  senior leadership that's running the team.
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  So let's say that's in place.
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  And let's talk a little bit more about your your sweet spot or your your super power, which
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  is delegation.
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  And talk about what are some of the core elements that leaders need to have or acquire
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  to be a good delegator?
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  Yeah.
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  So, you know, research that I've done shows that 28% of us have actually trained in
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  delegation.
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  Because it's just perceived as something that that we can do.
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  But when people actually really think about it, they say, actually, we're that very good at it.
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  It really does come back to a whole there's a whole range of reasons.
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  There's stuff going on for us around why that we don't wanna delegate from.
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  My team are too busy.
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  I don't know what to delegate.
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  I'm fearful that if I delegate something, they will do it really badly.
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  Or they'll do it so well that'll make me look badly because it used to be my role.
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  So there's a whole whole lot of fears that prevent people from from delegating or beliefs
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  that they have around around their team.
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  Sometimes they just do because I think faster to just get on and do it.
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  It'll it takes too long to to train people.
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  And sometimes they'll try to delegate and the team will go, that's not my job.
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  And they'll push back.
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  And I guess my my sweet spot is middle management.
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  So I look at middle management leaders who are either mutually leading a team, and so I've
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  never had to delegate and helping them understand what they need to do and how they
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  need to do it because it's more than just handing tasks Sober, there's there's all of
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  these leadership components which we've touched on authenticity, trust communication, building
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  relationships, and so on.
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  One of the first things I get people to do, and I actually did this with a, you know, as for
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  the first time with a really simulator a couple of years ago in an organization who had stepped
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  into a more senior role into the C suite.
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  And I and I was thinking, gosh, what will we start with?
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  What will I do?
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  And I thought, I know we'll just work out what's on the plate for her 1st 90 days.
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  That'll take the first 10 minutes, and then we'll get into a good conversation.
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  Well, 90 minutes later, we're still putting up things on her huge whiteboard around what was
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  on her plate.
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  And that's when I realized that we've got a look and it was Madro and we didn't, you know,
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  it wasn't 90 minutes worth of this, this, this, this, it was actually what about this tell me
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  more about that conversation as we went.
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  And when we both looked at that list, it was then the other stand back and go, actually,
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  that is something I can park.
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  That is something that that doesn't need to be done for another 6 months.
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  And the list became much more feasible.
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  The other issue was there was no team in place to delegate anything to, so that had to be
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  built up as well.
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  So even doing that task audit, which would which is the first thing I get people to do is
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  sometimes enough to lighten the load or to make people realize this is what I can pass on.
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  And the things you can pass on are things that you don't need your absolute expertise to be
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  able to do.
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  But also understanding because when people step up into a new role, they'll often keep doing
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  the activities that they used to do in their old role they could be part of the same team
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  because it's stuff they're really good at and that's why they got promoted.
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  And they find it hard to let go of what they're really good at because then they feel
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  threatened they're doing stuff they're not so good at, which is leading.
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  So it's helping them do that step up, and I call it right level management.
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  So If their leader steps up, but they're still operating here, they're pushing all their team
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  down.
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  So everyone's operating at the wrong level.
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  And if it's throughout the organization, that's a huge issue.
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  So how to get them to step up and and delegate the tasks that they used to do.
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  So that's it.
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  That would be my first tip is to say what is on your task list and what are you, what are you
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  still doing that you shouldn't do?
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  And asking yourself the question, if not, you know, look at it, look at something you're
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  about to do.
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  If not me, who else do this.
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  I like I like the the concept about comfort, really, because, if you're stepping up a level,
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  you know, we all like comfort and safety to feel competent if you think about it.
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  But not thinking, you know, if you're thinking of a leader, you're not thinking that they're
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  struggling with that, but I'm thinking about in my leadership roles.
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  I think, I, Brenna, an addiction unit at a hospital as, you know, one of my first
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  management roles.
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  And, you know, I was quite young also, those types of things, but I worked with another
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  leader, and he was so, kinda lost in being liked that he did everything that that his team
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  wanted.
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  So he went from being one of the team members to being the team lead.
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  And and I would look at it, and I would say, like, but, you know, that particular filing
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  situation is not your, you know, that's your your your expertise and your value is being
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  lost there, you know, but he was, you know, more interested in perceiving this as
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  connection versus recognizing that in fact, he wasn't showing people, you know, the value of
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  what he had been promoted to.
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  Which is which is sort of one of the other things I focus on, and in the white paper that
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  I'm happy to offer people which is a mindset audit, which is what is it that you're doing
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  that that either you should be doing or that you have beliefs about?
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  And and one of them is it it's I often say that that it can be so challenging to step up from
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  within your team.
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  So your your manager or your supervisor had stepped up and and left the peers behind
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  because suddenly he's leading them.
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  And He wants the relationships to stay the same, and they just can't.
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  Right.
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  Right.
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  And I think, you know, you know, this part of when thinking about it for deli from an
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  element, I think every level you go up, my perception is that you can't keep the
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  connections in the organization.
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  So I I always say, you know, you may level up, then you have less connection, then you level
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  up, and then you get to the CEO where the CEO needs to go outside of the organization.
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  Which is which is a lonely place to be.
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  Right?
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  Because as human beings, ultimately, we know that you have the skill and the capacity and
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  the personality and the acumen to do that role.
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  But when you're up there and you're having a tough day, it's like, help anybody.
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  You can't go to the level under, you have to be able to, and that's where, you know, senior
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  senior coaching and executive coaching becomes very, very vital.
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  But it's it's it's a tough thing, and I've seen people go through it, and they struggle because
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  they, you know, they're still wanting to maintain those connections, especially in
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  smaller communities and like that too where you might see the, you know, your managers or your
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  SVPs at the hockey rink or the soccer field or whatever, and then you're still having to meet
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  seeing that certain level of acumen even though you're outside of work.
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  That's right.
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  And and the number of
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  people that I work with who, go, but I used to be best friends with this person.
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  We used to socialize together, and we've had and now these things happened, and it's because
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  you know, sorry.
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  You've stepped up.
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  You're now leading them, and you have to behave differently.
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  So let's So let's talk a little bit about, in this time and, you know, I I, you know, I think
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  we'd be a bit remiss to not, you know, acknowledge that, being a leader is a, a subset
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  of a skill that I think some people are just naturally come into it a little bit better, but
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  obviously with skill and development enhancement, people get it.
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  But the shift in what how we've, you know, you're in Australia and I'm in Canada and we're
• 21:58
  basically, you know, we're doing the same types of things.
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  We're all having to manage from home.
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  So delegation virtually.
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  Let's talk a little bit about that.
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  And, What kind of thing?
• 22:12
  I'm I'm just thinking it's probably a bit of a wild, wild west out there potentially for
• 22:16
  people that have never or haven't acted as teams remotely as their, kinda, their modus up
• 22:24
  upper end eye.
• 22:25
  So what what are some of the things that you've heard or you've seen or you think that teams
• 22:30
  would be experiencing right now virtually with the element of delegation.
• 22:34
  Yeah.
• 22:34
  And and it's interesting when, you know, so many organizations do work well previously
• 22:39
  worked flexibly and now absolutely have to.
• 22:42
  And but but working flex speed is like, oh, you can work a day from home or you can work
• 22:46
  somewhere else, whereas now it is literally you're out of the office.
• 22:49
  And that has, I guess, that has lifted the, I as you know, the visibility of whether you're
• 22:58
  good at delegating or not or what your leadership is like or what your team is like.
• 23:04
  Because then a whole new range of fears come into place because people used to be able to
• 23:07
  see every day, so you can actually see what they're doing.
• 23:10
  Now they're at home and you can't see it.
• 23:13
  And that's not to say, in fact, people are busier at home on finding than when they used
• 23:18
  to be at work, which I'll I'll come back to.
• 23:20
  But suddenly, people who were in the office and were perceived as pretty good at perhaps
• 23:24
  delegating and lading, have lost that element of control, which is visibility of what the the
• 23:31
  team are doing and that raises a bit of fear.
• 23:33
  And then when we get a bit of fear from a neuroscience perspective, we get sort of
• 23:36
  cortisol entering system, which makes us feel stressed, and then we start to operate
• 23:40
  differently, and then we get this domino effect of what's going on.
• 23:45
  So things that are happening, out of the workplace.
• 23:48
  But while people are still working, are things like we've got people who used to walk out the
• 23:54
  front door and and then trouble to their office, fills their commuting time, and they
• 23:58
  would be away from their family and now working with their family.
• 24:01
  And all of the challenges that that brings in, if you've got young children, if you've got
• 24:05
  school age children or children in secondary school or even college, suddenly the dynamics
• 24:11
  of how you're working had changed just because you've got different people around you.
• 24:16
  And suddenly, you have to sort of show that you actually do have a real job because all they do
• 24:21
  is see you sitting Really, what are you doing?
• 24:23
  We can't play video games all day.
• 24:26
  The other thing that's happening is people I'm I'm spending more time on video conferencing
• 24:30
  than ever, ever, ever before, which I love because they are they are getting that face to
• 24:36
  face, thing, but but again, there's research emerging that we get this cognitive dissonance
• 24:42
  happening because when I'm talking to you on a computer screen, it looks like we're together,
• 24:46
  but we know there's this there's this dissonance that actually we're not really.
• 24:50
  Right.
• 24:50
  And so that takes up bandwidth of our brain, which again is a bit exhausting.
• 24:55
  So people who previously could say, hey, Bob, tell me about the results from blah blah blah
• 25:01
  and they're sitting next to them.
• 25:02
  Now I have to set up, you know, an instant message or set up a Zoom time to have that
• 25:07
  conversation.
• 25:08
  And so they're doing more they're spending more time looking at a computer screen, talking to
• 25:14
  people.
• 25:15
  And they're starting earlier because they've lost their commute time, and they're going
• 25:19
  later.
• 25:19
  And now because their computer is at home, probably always was, but now it's accessible so
• 25:24
  much.
• 25:24
  And they're used to working from that table in the lounge room or in if they have an office.
• 25:30
  They're also doing, you know, stuff at night when they may not have previously and stuff on
• 25:34
  weekends.
• 25:35
  So it it's actually concerning for me from a a health perspective that that people are doing a
• 25:42
  lot more work, but they're also doing work that creates a cognitive load on our brain because
• 25:49
  we've got this dissonance about what's real and what's not.
• 25:53
  So that's, I think, a a bit of an issue without even looking at all the people that have, you
• 25:59
  know, which is sort of separate completely to what we're saying, but who have lost their jobs
• 26:02
  and there's that pressure of there's that added pressure of will I have a job in a week if you
• 26:07
  do still have a job.
• 26:08
  So there's a lot of stress going on for people at the moment.
• 26:12
  And if leaders Also have that stress of what am I team doing?
• 26:17
  They can easily fall into the micro management aspect of internet messaging all the time,
• 26:23
  checking all the time how you're going with because they're not seeing it, so they've got
• 26:28
  to check all the time.
• 26:29
  So It's putting it's putting stress on people.
• 26:33
  And so it I I try to go as quickly as possible.
• 26:38
  And now we're sort of 3 or, you know, we'll probably is it 3 weeks?
• 26:41
  3 weeks into, social distancing, people now are falling into a rhythm.
• 26:48
  So now's the time to go get back into a work based operating rhythm.
• 26:54
  Set your daytime a day that you're going to work, make sure you have breaks, and bring and
• 26:59
  bring back some control in how you're operating.
• 27:01
  Set up a structure, that might be the same or a bit different to how your team and how you used
• 27:08
  to work with your team.
• 27:09
  If you had a weekly meeting, have a weekly meeting, if you had daily stand ups, still find
• 27:13
  a way to have those daily standouts.
• 27:14
  So try to recreate it knowing it's not gonna be the same, and get back to some sort of normal
• 27:21
  operating rhythm or put some rules around the fact of how you operate.
• 27:25
  So that makes that makes so much sense, right, because I think you're right.
• 27:28
  Like, it was, you know, March 15th here, and then we were like a tumbleweed to use your,
• 27:34
  your, your familiar kind of space.
• 27:37
  And now you're right because people are just like, okay.
• 27:40
  We're calibrating.
• 27:41
  We know this has been 4 weeks in.
• 27:44
  We might have another 2 months to go.
• 27:47
  Alright.
• 27:47
  Okay.
• 27:48
  Well, this is our reality, and people are learning things like slack and and and Loom and
• 27:54
  and and Zoom and and break out rooms and all that stuff and Zoom overload.
• 27:59
  So I would think, yeah, you're right because that FaceTime was maybe there more often.
• 28:04
  So managers have to manage their stress and how they're coping so that they're what they're
• 28:10
  filtering down to their teams.
• 28:12
  Yeah.
• 28:13
  And I could I would think on the employee, and then I don't know if you you would agree with
• 28:17
  us, Marie, but also maybe the the teams at home are worried about how they're being perceived
• 28:23
  about functioning.
• 28:24
  So maybe they're hyper functioning because they're concerned when when everybody catches
• 28:29
  their breath and we go back and we start to look at the KPIs and stuff like that, will I be
• 28:34
  under the microscope because of how I function at home?
• 28:37
  Yes.
• 28:38
  And look, I I hope there's a lot of slack even for, for teams and people and individuals and
• 28:47
  leaders be well, when we I mean, I was gonna say when we get back to normal, who knows what?
• 28:52
  Getting back to normal even looks like.
• 28:54
  Right.
• 28:57
  Because we are in look, I could We I don't know about calendar, but here in Australia, we are
• 29:03
  absolutely going to go into a recession.
• 29:05
  Our unemployment rate is going to skyrocket And so, we have to have some forgiveness because it
• 29:13
  could be even survivor guilt because people still have jobs.
• 29:17
  So that, you know, there's, you know, whole heap of things that we've we've gotta make sure
• 29:21
  that, we find ways to keep business going because we absolutely have too.
• 29:27
  Mhmm.
• 29:27
  But also do it in a way that there's a lot of peak evenness in there as well.
• 29:30
  So, yeah, look, I think performance reviews, maybe this is the
• 29:33
  year that we'll be able to get rid of them.
• 29:36
  Everybody's probably you know, everyone's like, oh, no.
• 29:40
  Performance review time.
• 29:41
  You know, when you're in corporate, you're like, Okay.
• 29:43
  It's just a conversation.
• 29:44
  It's no big deal, but we know that everybody nobody liked them.
• 29:48
  Nice.
• 29:48
  Exactly.
• 29:49
  Maybe this would be the year of, okay.
• 29:51
  We're not gonna have those But I I would see that, yes, absolutely delegation would be the
• 29:58
  skill of the leader is being challenged as much as the skill of the team.
• 30:03
  And the and the state the state of the the leadership and the and the teams and that
• 30:08
  relationship whatever you kinda took in person and took at home, it it was the say it's it's
• 30:15
  in it's in a space then that you now you're like, alright.
• 30:18
  We we had conflict.
• 30:19
  We had disagreements.
• 30:20
  We had unresolved concerns.
• 30:22
  All that stuff, but now we're not even seeing each other.
• 30:25
  And to your point, I'm reading you, Marie, but if I if I have an issue with you and I'm having
• 30:31
  to still kind of work with you and nobody was resolving it and it's gonna be harder even even
• 30:38
  more so, I would think, to work
• 30:40
  through.
• 30:41
  Yeah.
• 30:42
  Far easy to avoid that difficult conversation.
• 30:44
  Right?
• 30:45
  Because I can kind of make sure that I'm kind of clocking in when you're clocking out, but
• 30:48
  now it's like, oh, no.
• 30:50
  You have to be able to talk to Roxanne at least once a week to check this out, those types of
• 30:54
  things.
• 30:54
  So I think, you know, it's it po probably poses some difficulties, but also I'm gonna say that
• 31:01
  on the on the flip side of things, it probably is teaching us a lot about what we're maybe not
• 31:07
  wanting to have dealt with before we're being forced to deal with you know, it's kinda like
• 31:11
  putting on our big girl pants and saying, okay.
• 31:14
  I have to look at it together.
• 31:16
  Yeah.
• 31:16
  Oh, absolutely.
• 31:17
  Great.
• 31:17
  I think a lot of good things are coming out of this and is there's a lot of, willingness to
• 31:23
  work together and to get on and do work.
• 31:26
  So it's absolutely not all doom and gloom and there's some amazing things happening out
• 31:32
  there.
• 31:33
  And, you know, We can say change is difficult, and yet it seems like everyone stepped into
• 31:39
  this new mode of reality and just getting on with it.
• 31:43
  So I'm I'm really impressed.
• 31:46
  I would think so, and I think, you know, it's it's a global issue.
• 31:48
  It's not And then you look around and you see how much, as communities, you know, here, I'm
• 31:55
  sure as in Australia also, you know, everybody's putting out little teddy bears in
• 32:00
  their windows or the kids are, you know, doing chalk signs and all these all these phenomenal
• 32:07
  things, and it shows you, you know, the capacity that we have as human beings when we
• 32:11
  just destatify everything and just really look about, you know what?
• 32:15
  Look, I'm safe.
• 32:16
  My family's safe.
• 32:18
  There's food.
• 32:20
  You know, we have enough to be able to sustain
• 32:22
  the toilet paper.
• 32:25
  Yeah.
• 32:25
  Of all the ridiculousness we have to, you know, and, I think it it is really bringing us to a
• 32:30
  point where, really, we see that so much similarity with each other, and I hope that
• 32:34
  that in turn plays into the element that we're all in this together.
• 32:40
  We're all human beings, and we all have the same worries and the same needs and the same,
• 32:46
  you know, things that make us happy and those types of things.
• 32:48
  So potentially from a a business perspective, I would hope that you know, and I think it truly
• 32:53
  will will have shifted us because now we we are looking at what's important
• 33:00
  Yes.
• 33:01
  And and hopefully finding this stuff, going back to to work, finding this stuff that
• 33:05
  actually we don't need to do anymore and we can become more efficient.
• 33:09
  Absolutely.
• 33:10
  Absolutely.
• 33:12
  So for anybody out there that's It's saying their team, they've gotten their feet wet,
• 33:21
  they're out of the crisis, and they're functioning, but, but the leaders wanting to
• 33:27
  kind of create a lit little bit more synergy in their teams.
• 33:32
  What kind of things would you say that would be some things that they could potentially look at
• 33:36
  implementing maybe say a bit at a time in the next month
• 33:41
  definitely look at their operating rhythm.
• 33:44
  How are they operating day to day and what sort of boundaries have they put in place for
• 33:51
  themselves, are they making sure they're staying in touch with all of their team?
• 33:58
  So, just because someone seems to be absolutely fine and you can just, you know, set the get.
• 34:04
  Don't because you do need to check-in.
• 34:06
  Really look at, you know, that that task audit and then go, there's so much here I don't need
• 34:12
  to do because that's often the case or there's so much here that that I can give other people
• 34:16
  to do because I think we also because again, we don't know how long this will go on.
• 34:20
  So we also wanna be able to make sure that we're keeping people engaged and enthusiastic
• 34:27
  about what they're doing to make sure that you're giving, if you are delegating that you
• 34:31
  giving them stuff that they're actually going to, thrive with or learn from or be challenged
• 34:36
  by in a positive way and and just check-in how how are they going?
• 34:42
  Because we've been talking about leading and leading teams, but it's also managing up.
• 34:46
  As well.
• 34:46
  So making sure that you're checking in with your boss, making sure you've got a line of
• 34:51
  communication and are operating with them with them because they've got their own stresses.
• 34:56
  As well.
• 34:57
  So, no one has the answers, so look out for each other.
• 35:01
  Yes.
• 35:01
  And I I go back to communicate, communicate, communicate, just like you're realizing the
• 35:06
  tasks and at this level, how are you having that conversation, you know, one step up or two
• 35:12
  steps up to ensure that there's alignments with how, you know, that information is going up,
• 35:17
  but also coming back down so that you could kind of look at really what are the unnecessary
• 35:22
  We gotta throw that stuff out, and we probably should never bring it back.
• 35:26
  What kind of things do we have to be more relaxed about?
• 35:29
  And really, I think at this point, it's more about, look, we're fine.
• 35:33
  We're doing well.
• 35:35
  Okay.
• 35:35
  These are the things that have slipped what what should we focus more on and maybe what can
• 35:40
  we learn.
• 35:41
  Right?
• 35:41
  So I think it's in a way you're being forced to to have that ultimate work life balance to some
• 35:46
  degree.
• 35:47
  You know, I've been doing, you know, work with clients and somebody comes flying in the room
• 35:51
  and they say, hold on a second.
• 35:54
  Some these, you know, TV show just went on pause, and they had to go out and come back.
• 35:58
  So I think just having that whole sense of, balance as much as we can and accepting that,
• 36:03
  you know, we'll we'll get through this, and we're gonna learn so much from it.
• 36:07
  So, Marie, this has been a fantastic, I think, hopefully, I know I have learned a lot of
• 36:14
  things from today.
• 36:15
  And I'm sure that anyone listening has done the same.
• 36:19
  Now for anybody that would want to have you speak or or potentially coach with you for
• 36:25
  their, their leaders or even their teams.
• 36:28
  I know we're gonna put a link to a white paper that, Marie has written on a delegation, which
• 36:33
  I think will be a a fantastic resource.
• 36:35
  Where could people reach you and any last words of wisdom before I let you go?
• 36:40
  Thank you, Roxanne.
• 36:41
  This has been a pleasure.
• 36:42
  We could be chatting for ages, I think.
• 36:45
  So, yes, I'll I'll give you the link for my delegation white paper.
• 36:49
  It's 7 steps to go from do it to delegator.
• 36:51
  If people do wanna find out more about developing their own delegation skills or
• 36:56
  building some building that into their team skills.
• 36:58
  I do one on one coaching for for leaders, but I also do, team sessions, and that's now all
• 37:05
  online.
• 37:05
  Now I have a half day delegation workshop or even a 90 minute webinar that that gives people
• 37:11
  a a good good space.
• 37:13
  People can email me at mari, which is mardoublee, atmaryburgess.com, and I'm sure
• 37:20
  that the links will be in your show notes, and all of my other links with LinkedIn and or
• 37:25
  Facebook or anything like that.
• 37:27
  And I I guess my last tip would be, you know, be kind.
• 37:33
  So we we don't need bad behavior at this stage.
• 37:38
  So, you know, just be kind to everyone that you're interacting with.
• 37:41
  I like that.
• 37:42
  Just be kind.
• 37:43
  You know, this, I say so so long as we, you know, like each other, we get to know each
• 37:48
  other, which we're having opportunities to do trust comes.
• 37:52
  And with trust, you know, what happens is that lots of things that used to bother us before
• 37:57
  when you rebuild that relation ship, we let so many things go because you go, oh, I can see
• 38:02
  from a different light now.
• 38:03
  So that's what I talk about.
• 38:05
  It's about, you know, be aware how am I interfacing is there things that I'm doing
• 38:09
  that's bothering someone that I have to take responsibility, for to take those steps to be
• 38:14
  able to think, you know, I'm not like this about this person, but what is it might they
• 38:18
  might not like about me and how can I maybe meet that person a bit further along so that we
• 38:22
  can engage in a different way?
• 38:23
  And being at home, you know, we all have more pressures and to recognize that because that
• 38:29
  person on the other end of that video is also doing the same kinds of things you are.
• 38:33
  So this is Roxanne Derhodge.
• 38:35
  Thanks so much for tuning in again, and Marie for getting up.
• 38:39
  It's such a, I'm gonna say, on godly hour, but it's it's probably close to the beginning of
• 38:44
  your day anyway.
• 38:45
  And, if you're needing any information on mental health and wellness and authenticity,
• 38:49
  You can go to my website.
• 38:51
  It's roxanderhodge.com.
• 38:52
  There's a link for a course that you could do on relationships, which will help you to better
• 38:58
  lead in whatever we that you need to.
• 39:01
  Thanks for tuning in to authentic living with Roxanne, creating the space for positive
• 39:07
  healthy chain.
• 39:08
  Roxanne is a keynote speaker, psychotherapist, and coach to work with Roxanne, visit Roxanne
• 39:15
  Durgesh dotcom/blueprint.
• 39:18
  We'll see you next time on authentic living with Roxanne.