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Is WVU Legit? Plus High School Officiating and Safety Technology Advencement in Football · WCHS Network Podcasts

0:01
Speaker 1: Welcome to Let's Talk with Carl Lee.
0:25
Speaker 2: Let's Talk is proudly presented by attorney Frank Walker. Real talk,
0:29
Speaker 2: real experience, real results. FrankWalkerLaw.com. Let the conversation begin on
0:35
Speaker 2: Let's Talk.
0:36
Speaker 3: Hello, ladies and gentlemen. This is Carl Lee with Let's Talk.
0:41
Speaker 4: Today we have in the– I only have one of
0:44
Speaker 4: my co-hosts in the building.
0:45
Speaker 3: That's Hollis Lewis.
0:46
Speaker 5: Hello.
0:47
Speaker 3: And then there is the football queen, Lisa Odie.
0:52
Speaker 4: She's by phone, so I have access to be able
0:55
Speaker 4: to hang up on her if I need to.
0:57
Speaker 3: Yeah, right.
1:00
Speaker 6: We all know what happens.
1:02
Speaker 4: Well, and Hollis has something I think he wants to
1:04
Speaker 4: kind of clean up, I think.
1:06
Speaker 6: Yeah, great.
1:08
Speaker 7: Open up and just talk about, I know last week
1:10
Speaker 7: we spent the entire show talking about the Safe College
1:12
Speaker 7: Sports Act. And I think we were all kind of
1:15
Speaker 7: in agreement that this is maybe something that's not perfect,
1:18
Speaker 7: but is necessary moving forward. And Lisa, you had mentioned
1:23
Speaker 7: something just about the antitrust. So essentially, what this bill
1:28
Speaker 7: in its current form would do, it wouldn't allow players
1:32
Speaker 7: to basically, it would kind of hurt their chances to
1:36
Speaker 7: unionize and maybe even um, a suit forward as far
1:40
Speaker 7: as the NCAA, as far as monopolizing different things of
1:42
Speaker 7: that nature. And I think that's number one, we probably
1:46
Speaker 7: should have spent more time talking about that aspect of
1:49
Speaker 7: it because I think it's two, two problems with that.
1:51
Speaker 7: Number one, to not allow the players to unionize, to
1:55
Speaker 7: not allow them to have really that adequate representation when
1:57
Speaker 7: ultimately this is, it all affects them.
2:00
Speaker 5: Right.
2:00
Speaker 3: It's, it's, it's totally flawed.
2:03
Speaker 7: Um, Number two, when we talk about that cap, there
2:07
Speaker 7: was a $ 20 million cap as far as what the
2:09
Speaker 7: schools could pay the players. And then again, I guess
2:11
Speaker 7: players could get money from outside of that. And I
2:14
Speaker 7: think there was like a $ 27 million, you know, some
2:19
Speaker 7: leeway above and beyond the $ 20 million if they follow
2:22
Speaker 7: certain standards. So I think the max you could probably
2:25
Speaker 7: have is close to about $ 50 million that you can spend.
2:28
Speaker 7: That's a problem because when we talk about capping the players,
2:31
Speaker 7: are we talking about capping the coaches? Are we talking
2:34
Speaker 7: about capping the coaches as far as their buyouts?
2:37
Speaker 3: Are we, you know what I'm saying? Because I think they,
2:39
Speaker 3: and again, it.
2:40
Speaker 7: Addressed as far as like coaches leaving, you know, in
2:43
Speaker 7: the middle of seasons and, but it didn't necessarily address
2:48
Speaker 7: directly tampering, which is like, again, if I'm doing interviews
2:52
Speaker 7: and the season ain't even over, I don't know what
2:54
Speaker 7: you call that. That's tampering, right? So it didn't directly
2:58
Speaker 7: address it. It kind of went around it. And my
3:00
Speaker 7: final point is that Why in the world would we
3:06
Speaker 7: hand this back over to the NCAA?
3:10
Speaker 3: Why?
3:11
Speaker 7: They have proven that they are inadequate as far as
3:16
Speaker 7: getting this right. They've had 30 years to get this right.
3:20
Speaker 7: So why in the world would we now say have
3:23
Speaker 7: this thing and all these things that's in it and
3:25
Speaker 7: then turn around and just hand them back the power?
3:28
Speaker 7: So I think those would be my primary problems with it.
3:32
Speaker 6: OK, so I'm going to I'm going to throw this
3:33
Speaker 6: out there. Why? Who else would handle it? I mean,
3:37
Speaker 6: we have to. They are the governing body of college
3:41
Speaker 6: football right now. And who else would enforce it? I mean,
3:45
Speaker 6: what would the other options be?
3:47
Speaker 7: I think the other options like I would like to
3:50
Speaker 7: see a board and sort of like maybe I'm saying panel,
3:54
Speaker 7: that's kind of the wrong thing. But I would like
3:56
Speaker 7: to see a board that's representative of what college sports is.
4:01
Speaker 7: So I don't want to necessarily see one individual organization
4:05
Speaker 7: do it. So I think it needs to be, you know,
4:08
Speaker 7: you need to have players, college coaches, former coaches, former players,
4:12
Speaker 7: just a board of people who's going to handle it
4:15
Speaker 7: instead of like one single organization.
4:17
Speaker 4: So similar to the NFL, there's actually like a players
4:22
Speaker 4: association that that they then in turn can argue and
4:26
Speaker 4: debate different things with, quote, the NFL.
4:30
Speaker 3: I think that's kind of what you're talking about.
4:32
Speaker 7: Well, not to that degree because the Players Association doesn't
4:34
Speaker 7: have any direct power to what the NFL does. But
4:37
Speaker 7: what I want to see is something like you said,
4:39
Speaker 7: a mix of where you have college representation as far
4:42
Speaker 7: as on their different levels, coaches, administrators, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,
4:46
Speaker 7: and you have players. And you mix that and that
4:48
Speaker 7: forms the new– NCAA, something to that effect, because I
4:52
Speaker 7: just think in its current form, the NCAA, it just
4:56
Speaker 7: it's proven itself to be ineffective. And I don't I
4:59
Speaker 7: don't have a perfect answer, Lisa, but I think we
5:01
Speaker 7: have to do something else.
5:02
Speaker 6: I mean, I agree with your point. I feel like
5:05
Speaker 6: that that the NCAA, the way it stands now is
5:08
Speaker 6: very flawed in the way that they enforce rules and regulations,
5:12
Speaker 6: if any. I mean, basically, the government is having to
5:15
Speaker 6: intervene to clean up the mess that they created. So
5:19
Speaker 6: I'm with you on that. The problem is, in order
5:22
Speaker 6: to get some kind of guardrails at this point, it
5:26
Speaker 6: has to be given into the hands of the NCAA
5:29
Speaker 6: because we don't have that committee established yet. We don't
5:33
Speaker 6: have that panel, so to speak. So until that kind
5:36
Speaker 6: of thing, which I don't think is Honestly, I don't
5:39
Speaker 6: think that's ever going to happen because I don't think
5:41
Speaker 6: the NCAA is ready for it. I don't I don't
5:44
Speaker 6: think they want to give that power up.
5:46
Speaker 8: No.
5:46
Speaker 6: And, you know, there's a lot of money wrapped up
5:49
Speaker 6: into this. Let's face it.
5:51
Speaker 7: OK, well, even if that's not the case, what OK,
5:55
Speaker 7: you know, and I can buy that point that you're
5:58
Speaker 7: making because it's a very valid point. But even if
6:00
Speaker 7: that's the case, I think at the very least, you
6:04
Speaker 7: need to revamp the NCAA.
6:06
Speaker 3: And what do I mean by that?
6:07
Speaker 7: They have to because of what they fail to always
6:10
Speaker 7: do is they fail to look around the corner and
6:12
Speaker 7: see what's happening. The NCAA is perpetually late when it
6:17
Speaker 7: comes to these sort of issues. So what I'm saying
6:19
Speaker 7: is that you need to lock. the historians, the compliance people,
6:24
Speaker 7: the officers, blah, blah, blah. They need to be locked
6:27
Speaker 7: up in a room for six months to figure out
6:29
Speaker 7: to go through all the rule books of all the
6:31
Speaker 7: different sports, the general rules, all them different things. Figure
6:35
Speaker 7: out to rewrite those rules and compliances and different things
6:38
Speaker 7: of that nature. Get with some attorneys as well and
6:41
Speaker 7: try to anticipate the next steps so they can start
6:44
Speaker 7: to get these things right.
6:45
Speaker 4: I don't think that that could– I don't see them
6:48
Speaker 4: doing that or even feeling like they need to do
6:51
Speaker 4: that until there is representation for the players. And that
6:58
Speaker 4: brings me back to my first point.
6:59
Speaker 8: Yes.
7:00
Speaker 3: Yes.
7:01
Speaker 4: As soon as you can get representation who those people are,
7:06
Speaker 4: I don't know, you know, I would say older coaches,
7:11
Speaker 4: I think would be more, more for those players for what,
7:19
Speaker 4: what they're doing now. Cause they're, I mean, you can
7:22
Speaker 4: say whatever you want, but collegiate football has to pay
7:26
Speaker 4: its players more. For the simple fact of its safety.
7:29
Speaker 4: It's a safety issue.
7:31
Speaker 3: That's a good one. I never even thought about it.
7:32
Speaker 3: It is a.
7:33
Speaker 4: Safety issue at the level in which those guys are playing.
7:39
Speaker 4: There's five pounds away from the NFL, you know, and
7:44
Speaker 4: guys are getting hurt.
7:46
Speaker 3: And ending their career there.
7:48
Speaker 4: You know, you may be playing for a college team,
7:51
Speaker 4: get an injury, and be done for your football career,
7:55
Speaker 4: and nobody's saying anything.
7:56
Speaker 3: And not only could be done for, like, your health. Yes.
8:00
Speaker 7: But, again, I don't want to get lost in this
8:02
Speaker 7: subject because we covered it last week.
8:04
Speaker 3: Yeah, but it is actually a good one, and you're
8:06
Speaker 3: bringing up a good point.
8:07
Speaker 7: Because I think that, again, to your point, the players, and, again, Lisa,
8:11
Speaker 7: you brought this up last week. it's going to be–
8:14
Speaker 7: it would be hard for the players to unionize at
8:17
Speaker 7: a real level. But I think the only way you'd
8:19
Speaker 7: start to make change, the players got to strike and
8:22
Speaker 7: the players got to have a work stoppage.
8:24
Speaker 6: You know what? But it's part of, say, the college
8:27
Speaker 6: sports act, the way it stands now, that they have
8:30
Speaker 6: no collective bargaining power.
8:32
Speaker 3: Exactly.
8:32
Speaker 4: And that's wrong.
8:34
Speaker 3: That is totally wrong.
8:35
Speaker 6: Jesus.
8:36
Speaker 3: Because– Another point. Go ahead, Lisa. Okay, go ahead, Lisa.
8:40
Speaker 6: Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I just want to make
8:42
Speaker 6: a quick point that we had to have the government,
8:45
Speaker 6: our United States government, to clean this mess up. Do
8:49
Speaker 6: you think the only way that they are going to
8:52
Speaker 6: form some type of panel or committee is if they
8:56
Speaker 6: add some kind of code or wording into this act?
9:00
Speaker 6: That state, we want a panel or committee. Otherwise, it's
9:03
Speaker 6: not going to happen. They're not going to change anything
9:06
Speaker 6: until they're forced. Obviously, like I said, we had this
9:09
Speaker 6: mess with NIL, with the transfer portal, with all those things.
9:12
Speaker 6: And the government had to intervene. NCAA, you think things
9:16
Speaker 6: would not have changed unless this would have happened.
9:18
Speaker 7: And again, why until that point? And that brings up again,
9:22
Speaker 7: move on. But I'm just saying, like, that brings up
9:24
Speaker 7: my point. Why in the world are we handing it
9:26
Speaker 7: back to the NCAA when the government had to step in?
9:30
Speaker 7: If the government had to fix this, we're in the
9:34
Speaker 7: middle of wars and prices up and blah, blah, blah,
9:36
Speaker 7: all the things politically is going on, and the government
9:38
Speaker 7: had to fix college sports.
9:40
Speaker 3: And again, the players have no representation.
9:45
Speaker 6: None.
9:46
Speaker 3: No real representation. No real. You as an.
9:48
Speaker 4: Individual player might have somebody, but somebody should be protecting
9:53
Speaker 4: the athletes in collegiate football just as they do.
9:58
Speaker 3: In the NFL.
10:00
Speaker 7: All right yeah we can get lost in that one
10:03
Speaker 7: Lisa did we.
10:04
Speaker 6: Went down that rabbit hole for a minute.
10:06
Speaker 7: Could you provide us some updates far as West Virginia
10:10
Speaker 7: probably got it would you say this is his biggest
10:12
Speaker 7: win maybe in the last four or five maybe six
10:16
Speaker 7: seasons Yes.
10:19
Speaker 6: This is their first upset win over a ranked team,
10:23
Speaker 6: I think, since 2018. Wow. So this is a big
10:25
Speaker 6: win for Morgantown. This is huge. You know, basically... I'll
10:30
Speaker 6: tell you right now, though, guys, it was basically a
10:32
Speaker 6: home game for the Mountaineers.
10:34
Speaker 3: Yeah, I saw the crowd.
10:36
Speaker 6: It was a sea of blue and gold. There weren't
10:38
Speaker 6: many Cavalier fans in the stands. Really, you know, we
10:42
Speaker 6: walked into a restaurant one evening for dinner the night
10:44
Speaker 6: before the game, and they were like, this bartender or
10:48
Speaker 6: waiter came up to us and said, you guys are
10:50
Speaker 6: everywhere down here. You guys. But I really want to
10:56
Speaker 6: point out something that I think was the biggest– um
11:00
Speaker 6: you know star of the whole game and that's michael
11:03
Speaker 6: hawkins i mean it was you know their quarterback michael
11:05
Speaker 6: hawkins jr he put on a show guys and i
11:09
Speaker 6: i knew at the time watching the game of course
11:11
Speaker 6: when you're watching it in person you don't get the
11:12
Speaker 6: stats but after i looked it up you know after
11:15
Speaker 6: the fact you know he was 10 for 17 passing
11:18
Speaker 6: for 190 yards and two tds he was he's a
11:21
Speaker 6: dual threat quarterback You know, rushing yards for us, 247
11:26
Speaker 6: yards to Virginia's 157. In the red zone, we were
11:30
Speaker 6: four for four. No turnovers in that game. It was
11:33
Speaker 6: almost a perfect game. You know, it was just amazing
11:39
Speaker 6: to witness. Rich Rod was so excited at the end
11:41
Speaker 6: of the game. The fans are, you know, they're charged up.
11:45
Speaker 6: It's an electric atmosphere. This game really turned around the
11:49
Speaker 6: face of the program at this point in the season.
11:52
Speaker 4: Do we think that this particular head coach has already
12:01
Speaker 4: changed the mindset.
12:04
Speaker 3: In Morgantown?
12:06
Speaker 6: I mean, I think that, you know, this squad, I think,
12:11
Speaker 6: here's the tale of the tape. If they go into
12:14
Speaker 6: Morgantown facing Oklahoma State, who I don't know what their
12:18
Speaker 6: ranking is. I know they are ranked. And that's Big
12:20
Speaker 6: 12 conference play. If they can pull out a victory
12:24
Speaker 6: in Morgantown this Saturday, it's a night game at the stadium.
12:28
Speaker 6: That will be the tale of the tape because, you know,
12:32
Speaker 6: ESPN even posted an article today about, you know, they
12:35
Speaker 6: feel like some of the sleepers in college football, they
12:38
Speaker 6: named like Ole Miss. another team that escaped me their name.
12:43
Speaker 6: But they also mentioned WVU. So we're getting that checker.
12:47
Speaker 6: And I think if they pull off a victory over
12:51
Speaker 6: the Cowboys this Saturday, we'll be in the top 25,
12:53
Speaker 6: at least at 25.
12:54
Speaker 7: Let me ask you this, as far as, because I
12:56
Speaker 7: know one of the things, our coverage state took a
12:59
Speaker 7: loss to Wesleyan this weekend. And one of the things
13:03
Speaker 7: I talked about, or excuse me, thought about was like
13:05
Speaker 7: identity and like who you are as a football team,
13:08
Speaker 7: specifically like offensively, like who are we? Do you think
13:12
Speaker 7: like sort of Rich Rod style of play, is this
13:15
Speaker 7: who we are as like just the, like the WVU
13:19
Speaker 7: Mountaineers offense football type of deal? Is this, are we
13:22
Speaker 7: getting back to who we are as far as our identity?
13:26
Speaker 6: I mean, I think, I think what he's been preaching
13:28
Speaker 6: all along and that is the hard edge of That's
13:31
Speaker 6: been kind of his philosophy, playing hard-edged football at the
13:34
Speaker 6: end of the game. And that was definitely apparent in
13:37
Speaker 6: the fourth quarter. That's usually when they kind of lay
13:41
Speaker 6: down a little bit.
13:42
Speaker 7: Yeah.
13:43
Speaker 6: There were some questionable penalties at the end of the
13:46
Speaker 6: game that Virginia tried to come back. But the offensive line,
13:50
Speaker 6: I mean, I'm telling you what, it looked like a
13:52
Speaker 6: completely different offensive line from the Coastal Carolina game. I mean,
13:56
Speaker 6: they're really starting to gel. And I think as the
13:59
Speaker 6: season progresses, if they're on this road, I think they're
14:02
Speaker 6: just going to get better.
14:03
Speaker 4: How well do you think– can the defense, or let
14:09
Speaker 4: me say it this way, can the defense keep up
14:11
Speaker 4: with Rich Rod's offense?
14:14
Speaker 3: Are they going to be able to.
14:15
Speaker 4: Play in those games at the level in which they're
14:20
Speaker 4: going to need to in order to be able to win?
14:23
Speaker 4: Because I truly believe they're going to score touchdowns. They're
14:27
Speaker 4: going to get in the end zone. The question is,
14:29
Speaker 4: can they play the defense, play it well enough to
14:34
Speaker 4: offset and be able to win.
14:38
Speaker 3: Games with the offensive scoring opportunities.
14:42
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, when you're talking about the defense, Carl,
14:44
Speaker 6: I mean, I'm going to tell you right now, Saturday
14:46
Speaker 6: night they controlled the game. You know, they imposed their
14:49
Speaker 6: will and they basically neutralized Coach Elliott's you know, offensive adjustments.
14:55
Speaker 6: And also, you know, the offense did the same with
14:57
Speaker 6: the defense. So, you know, I think they've proved this
15:01
Speaker 6: past weekend that they can be ranked opponents away from home.
15:04
Speaker 6: That's really key too. I mean, even though it felt
15:07
Speaker 6: like a home game, it wasn't in Morgantown. It wasn't
15:10
Speaker 6: at Milan Pushkar Stadium. This was a neutral site, and
15:13
Speaker 6: they were the dominant team. So I think things look
15:16
Speaker 6: good for Rich Rod and the Mountaineers.
15:19
Speaker 3: Do the Mountaineers move into the top 25 after this victory?
15:23
Speaker 6: I think they do. I think there'll be, you know, nothing,
15:26
Speaker 6: nothing massive, but I think that they'll start a track
15:29
Speaker 6: that if they can keep winning games, you know, You
15:33
Speaker 6: never know. They could sneak into that playoff bid, but
15:37
Speaker 6: they have to keep winning, and they have to win
15:39
Speaker 6: the Big 12, of course.
15:40
Speaker 3: And I think the Big 12 is doable.
15:41
Speaker 7: I mean, when you look at the teams like, you know,
15:44
Speaker 7: the Texas Texans, the Baylors, the, you know, TCUs, I
15:48
Speaker 7: think it's doable that they can find themselves in the mix.
15:51
Speaker 7: I don't think there's a– I mean, there's some really
15:53
Speaker 7: good teams. I'm not going to say that. But I
15:55
Speaker 7: don't think there's, like, any great, great teams, like unbeatable teams.
15:59
Speaker 7: You don't have, like, any Ohio States or Texas or
16:01
Speaker 7: anything like that.
16:03
Speaker 3: You know what I mean? I think it's very doable
16:04
Speaker 3: that they could find themselves in the mix.
16:07
Speaker 4: I think, again, I think it's going to be more
16:09
Speaker 4: so based on– and I agree with you, but I
16:12
Speaker 4: think it's going to be based on how well the
16:15
Speaker 4: defense can play because I truly believe– The offense is
16:20
Speaker 4: going to put points on the board. They're going to score.
16:23
Speaker 4: They're going to put– when you look at that offense
16:27
Speaker 4: and you're a coach, you're going to spend time on, hey,
16:29
Speaker 4: we got to stop these guys. Because if we don't,
16:33
Speaker 4: we're going to have a tough time. But if that
16:35
Speaker 4: defense shows up, if they show up with a good defense,
16:38
Speaker 4: I think this could be a really good year.
16:42
Speaker 3: Lisa, you mentioned penalties.
16:44
Speaker 7: Coach Lee and I, we went to the South Charleston–
16:48
Speaker 7: George Washington game on Friday.
16:50
Speaker 6: I loved your shirt. I loved your shirt.
16:52
Speaker 4: I saw it.
16:53
Speaker 6: Nice.
16:54
Speaker 4: So let me make sure I let everybody know what
16:57
Speaker 4: the shirt looked like.
16:59
Speaker 6: Yeah, please do.
17:00
Speaker 2: So.
17:02
Speaker 3: I see him.
17:02
Speaker 4: Right before we come in. First thing he does to
17:05
Speaker 4: me is like point at his shirt. He's got a
17:08
Speaker 4: shirt that's got South Charleston and G-Dub with a line
17:12
Speaker 4: down the middle.
17:13
Speaker 3: I couldn't lose.
17:14
Speaker 4: So he couldn't lose at all. I couldn't even say
17:20
Speaker 4: anything bad about it because it was so creative.
17:23
Speaker 3: I could not lose. Leisha, you got to get you one.
17:25
Speaker 7: You got to have about, you need about 10 different
17:27
Speaker 7: sweaters to.
17:28
Speaker 3: Make a hodgepodge.
17:30
Speaker 7: But I guess what I'm saying, Lisa, there was 27,
17:33
Speaker 7: that's a two and a seven, 27 penalties in the
17:39
Speaker 7: first half alone.
17:42
Speaker 3: What?
17:43
Speaker 2: Yes.
17:44
Speaker 7: You mentioned penalties, some questionable penalties.
17:49
Speaker 3: In the WVU game.
17:53
Speaker 7: I'm watching college football, watching NFL this past weekend, just
17:55
Speaker 7: a plethora of penalties, untimely penalties, a whole bunch of penalties.
18:01
Speaker 7: And one thing I thought about was just like, I
18:03
Speaker 7: just don't know. We've cut the practice time down in football.
18:08
Speaker 7: We've seen Matt talked about a bunch of penalties like
18:11
Speaker 7: on special teams. And we just don't have, in my opinion,
18:15
Speaker 7: we need more practice time in football. You cannot cut
18:18
Speaker 7: it to this degree because I think you're just seeing
18:21
Speaker 7: a plethora of penalties. In addition to now the officials
18:25
Speaker 7: just have a more, in my opinion, again, just a
18:28
Speaker 7: more direct role in the outcome of the game. Or
18:31
Speaker 7: at least it's visually. It's visually. And we've seen that
18:35
Speaker 7: with the Michigan, with the one second hole thing.
18:38
Speaker 5: You know what I mean?
18:39
Speaker 7: So it's just like there has to be an answer
18:43
Speaker 7: because I'm telling you, after the first half of the
18:46
Speaker 7: high school game, I was wore out.
18:47
Speaker 3: I couldn't take no more. I had to go. I
18:51
Speaker 3: left it at that.
18:53
Speaker 6: You were like, I'm over all this yellow, right?
18:55
Speaker 3: I am over it. I think I got an off-size pillow.
18:58
Speaker 5: We were making jokes about laundry, doing laundry. There's not
19:02
Speaker 5: going to be any flag left to wash because it
19:05
Speaker 5: was going to be worn out and gone.
19:07
Speaker 3: We were talking about that live on the radio.
19:09
Speaker 5: Jeez.
19:11
Speaker 6: Go ahead.
19:11
Speaker 3: No, go ahead, Lisa.
19:13
Speaker 6: I was just going to say, Hollis just touched on
19:15
Speaker 6: that Michigan and the, I think it was Michigan State game.
19:19
Speaker 6: And was it Michigan State? No, no, no.
19:21
Speaker 3: Western Michigan and Michigan.
19:22
Speaker 6: Sorry, I knew it was the Michigan team. Western Michigan.
19:24
Speaker 6: But the NCAA basically come out and said that But
19:31
Speaker 6: Michigan lost that game and that should never have happened.
19:35
Speaker 6: I mean, they admitted all of it, but they're not
19:37
Speaker 6: going to take the W away from Michigan, which I
19:40
Speaker 6: understand we can't do that. You know, that would just
19:42
Speaker 6: set a precedent. That would be a nightmare. But it
19:45
Speaker 6: just shows you referees should never, ever play that big
19:49
Speaker 6: of a factor. in who wins a game.
19:51
Speaker 3: Ever.
19:52
Speaker 5: Ever.
19:52
Speaker 6: Sorry.
19:53
Speaker 4: Well, and I think, too, like when you go back
19:56
Speaker 4: to the South Carolina G-Dub game, somewhere by the halftime,
20:03
Speaker 4: You might want to count how many flags that you
20:06
Speaker 4: have thrown and realize, like, okay, we might want to
20:11
Speaker 4: let this game go a little bit.
20:13
Speaker 3: So, hey, let's let him play. Right.
20:16
Speaker 6: Especially high school.
20:19
Speaker 2: Yes.
20:20
Speaker 4: Because I truly believe that you could probably go into
20:23
Speaker 4: that game and see this particular flag at this particular time,
20:28
Speaker 4: how detrimental it was to either one of the teams.
20:33
Speaker 6: Was it lopsided toward one team, though? Did GW get
20:35
Speaker 6: more penalties than South Charleston?
20:37
Speaker 3: I don't think so. I think they both got their first.
20:39
Speaker 6: Yeah.
20:39
Speaker 7: I don't know this particular stats, but I think, you know,
20:41
Speaker 7: it didn't appear, you know, to be lopsided anyway. Because GW,
20:46
Speaker 7: even on their first, I think their first two big
20:48
Speaker 7: plays got called back because of penalties. So it wasn't
20:52
Speaker 7: for South Charleston, it was for GW. South Charleston, I think,
20:54
Speaker 7: had like, they entered the red zone, I want to say,
20:58
Speaker 7: about three times in their first half in They end
21:01
Speaker 7: up getting marched out of the red zone due to penalties.
21:04
Speaker 7: But it was just, like I said, I just think,
21:06
Speaker 7: and again, watching State's game against Wesleyan, State just had
21:09
Speaker 7: a plethora of untimely penalties. And it's one of them
21:12
Speaker 7: things where you're saying it's not necessarily a lack of
21:15
Speaker 7: discipline per se. I think the way I looked at it,
21:19
Speaker 7: when you're getting, as Matt talked about earlier, when you're
21:21
Speaker 7: getting offsides on kickoffs, when you're getting a plethora, I mean,
21:25
Speaker 7: GW probably had like four holding penalties in a row, right?
21:28
Speaker 5: Right.
21:29
Speaker 7: And to me, that's a result of just not having
21:32
Speaker 7: adequate practice time as opposed to lack of discipline.
21:34
Speaker 5: Don't you think the referees are also kind of a
21:36
Speaker 5: coach on the field? I mean, they don't have to
21:39
Speaker 5: call everything. They can go to the player after the
21:41
Speaker 5: play and say, hey, what you just did there, I
21:44
Speaker 5: could have thrown the flag. If I see you do
21:47
Speaker 5: it again, I'm going to. But give them the benefit
21:49
Speaker 5: of the doubt and just kind of coach them through
21:51
Speaker 5: that instead of just calling it every single time.
21:54
Speaker 3: And I agree with you. And I know for a
22:01
Speaker 3: fact this is holding, right?
22:02
Speaker 4: So if I'm on the line, Hollis is on the
22:04
Speaker 4: defensive line, he's trying to get past me and I
22:07
Speaker 4: grab his jersey. Soon as my hands hold onto that jersey,
22:11
Speaker 4: they're going to call holding.
22:13
Speaker 6: Yeah.
22:13
Speaker 3: But that is almost every play.
22:15
Speaker 6: Sure.
22:16
Speaker 3: So you can call that any time.
22:19
Speaker 4: So I think what you can do is you can
22:22
Speaker 4: maybe hold the flag at least one or two times
22:26
Speaker 4: and go up to the guy and say, hey, look,
22:29
Speaker 4: If he slides away from you, you've got to let
22:32
Speaker 4: your hands go. You know, or you just got to
22:35
Speaker 4: be able to push him. Because one, I might not
22:39
Speaker 4: even know what I've done to hold him. Because I
22:42
Speaker 4: may not even have thought about it. You know, I
22:44
Speaker 4: grab his jersey and I'm blocking him and he goes
22:47
Speaker 4: to the right and I'm holding on to it. I
22:49
Speaker 4: may not even know. I know that I'm holding, but
22:53
Speaker 4: I don't know if they're going to call that.
22:54
Speaker 5: Well, that's the stuff, too, that your coaches in the
22:56
Speaker 5: moment are maybe not necessarily going to see either because
22:59
Speaker 5: they're too busy working about the game plan to say,
23:03
Speaker 5: you know, by the way, keep your hands off his jersey.
23:05
Speaker 5: They're going to call you on that.
23:06
Speaker 4: And they're going to yell at the official more so
23:09
Speaker 4: than they are the player because, like you said.
23:12
Speaker 3: They may not have even seen it.
23:14
Speaker 4: It may have been a hold, but they don't know.
23:17
Speaker 4: But they're like, at what point are we going to
23:20
Speaker 4: stop calling holdings?
23:24
Speaker 6: That's a good point, a valid point from both of you.
23:28
Speaker 6: Because in all honesty, and you guys come from football
23:31
Speaker 6: backgrounds and I just watch it, you guys played it.
23:33
Speaker 6: But honestly, referees could call holding on almost every single
23:38
Speaker 6: defensive play. They really could. They could. So, you know,
23:42
Speaker 6: especially at the high school level, I like what Matt
23:44
Speaker 6: said about, you know, cutting them some breaks, giving them
23:47
Speaker 6: some guidance. you know, maybe a warning here and there.
23:50
Speaker 6: You know, there's no need for that many flags in
23:55
Speaker 6: a high school game.
23:57
Speaker 4: None.
23:57
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, it was unwatchable.
23:59
Speaker 7: But like I said, I just think it's something that's
24:01
Speaker 7: happening at all levels of football just because we just
24:04
Speaker 7: don't have adequate– I feel like we don't have adequate
24:08
Speaker 7: practice time. And I don't– but, and again, we're going
24:11
Speaker 7: to have to do something about it because it's just
24:12
Speaker 7: hard to watch.
24:15
Speaker 6: It slows it down.
24:16
Speaker 3: But who's going to– I'm sorry, Lisa, go ahead.
24:19
Speaker 6: Oh, I just said it just slows the game down.
24:22
Speaker 6: It slows momentum down. It just slows everything down. You know,
24:25
Speaker 6: the kids get a drive going or, you know, some
24:28
Speaker 6: momentum going and then you have those flags everywhere. It
24:31
Speaker 6: just makes the game unbearable to watch, like Hollis said.
24:35
Speaker 4: Where would that conversation start? Who would be the person
24:40
Speaker 4: in place to be able to have that conversation with
24:45
Speaker 4: to make that change. Because I don't think a coach,
24:49
Speaker 4: especially after you lost the game, are going to be
24:52
Speaker 4: able to call up somebody and say, hey, we need something.
24:55
Speaker 7: Well, again, I think if you look, if you take
24:58
Speaker 7: the statistics guys and analyst guys and we look at
25:02
Speaker 7: penalties called, and if it's significantly higher, then I think
25:06
Speaker 7: your coaches association has their point. Even the officials, their
25:11
Speaker 7: association and their organizations, they have their point. and obviously
25:14
Speaker 7: the administrative because we have to come up with something
25:17
Speaker 7: and figure out a solution. And whether that's just figuring out,
25:21
Speaker 7: you know, to analyze the playbook and seeing kind of
25:24
Speaker 7: like what's not necessarily as we move forward as far
25:27
Speaker 7: as modern football, whether that's implementing more practice time or
25:31
Speaker 7: simply just having more training. Because I know like when
25:34
Speaker 7: we were at State, we would have the referees come
25:36
Speaker 7: down before the spring game or come down before camp
25:39
Speaker 7: and they would sort of break down.
25:40
Speaker 3: New rules and different things of that nature.
25:41
Speaker 7: Maybe you just need to do that several more times So,
25:44
Speaker 7: but something has to be done because to Lisa's point,
25:47
Speaker 7: it's just unwatchable. You don't want to sit and watch a,
25:50
Speaker 7: you know, a halftime of football with 30 penalties.
25:53
Speaker 6: Absolutely not.
25:54
Speaker 3: Do you, okay.
25:56
Speaker 4: So I, to your point about back at state, you
26:01
Speaker 4: have the officials coming in, they're having this conversation.
26:04
Speaker 3: You can do a Q and a with them and say, Hey,
26:07
Speaker 3: what about this?
26:09
Speaker 4: And you know, why wouldn't you not have that at
26:11
Speaker 4: the high school high at the high school level? But
26:15
Speaker 4: on the other side of it is, again, I think
26:18
Speaker 4: that the biggest piece is you don't– I don't know
26:26
Speaker 4: if you can call youth football, middle school football, high
26:31
Speaker 4: school football, college.
26:32
Speaker 3: Football, pro football all the same.
26:36
Speaker 7: No, you're definitely not. You're not calling them the same.
26:38
Speaker 7: That's a match point. But– Where does it change?
26:43
Speaker 4: Because let's say if it's changing at high school, okay,
26:45
Speaker 4: then we got to make the case that, okay, the
26:47
Speaker 4: holding's okay.
26:48
Speaker 7: No, I think you, to Matt's point, I think if
26:51
Speaker 7: you're talking about youth middle school and even to high
26:53
Speaker 7: school to some degree, there has to be a level
26:56
Speaker 7: of coaching and teaching as far as the official's concerned.
26:59
Speaker 7: Like the official can say, hey, buddy, you know, you're
27:01
Speaker 7: a little tight there or you back up a little bit.
27:04
Speaker 7: There can be some sort of, again, obviously once you
27:07
Speaker 7: get to college and pros, that's different. But I think
27:09
Speaker 7: there's a certain level that the officials can, you know,
27:13
Speaker 7: they don't have to call everything, at least, or at
27:15
Speaker 7: the very least, I'll say it like this, they can
27:16
Speaker 7: give you a little warning.
27:18
Speaker 5: I think everybody that's in high school is still a
27:21
Speaker 5: teaching opportunity there. Once you go on to college, I mean,
27:25
Speaker 5: you had to have played in high school to get
27:28
Speaker 5: to the college football level. You might have gotten picked
27:31
Speaker 5: up your freshman year having never touched a football when
27:34
Speaker 5: you were in high school. So, I mean, you maybe
27:36
Speaker 5: still have to learn the whole game there.
27:38
Speaker 6: Go ahead. I'm sorry.
27:41
Speaker 3: I just was agreeing with Matt.
27:43
Speaker 6: Oh, okay. Okay. I'm sorry. I'm probably on a little delay.
27:46
Speaker 6: So if I'm interrupting, just tell me I'm being annoying, Carl,
27:49
Speaker 6: you're good.
27:50
Speaker 3: At telling me that.
27:50
Speaker 6: But I was just going to say like, maybe that
27:54
Speaker 6: could be something that, you know, all these referees have
27:56
Speaker 6: to take part in training before they become a referee. So,
28:00
Speaker 6: you know, maybe that's a, you know, a section or
28:02
Speaker 6: a class or a segment or something that they could
28:04
Speaker 6: cover that covers discretion and, when you have to look
28:09
Speaker 6: at who's participating in the game, what level, and using
28:14
Speaker 6: your discretion on calling or warning about a penalty or
28:18
Speaker 6: a play.
28:20
Speaker 4: I think anything along those lines is doable and probably needed.
28:29
Speaker 6: Yes.
28:31
Speaker 4: Now, are our voices going to really matter now? To
28:39
Speaker 4: whoever is listening that has anything to do with officiating,
28:44
Speaker 4: I seriously doubt it. But again, when you see a game,
28:49
Speaker 4: when you have a game that's built that big, that
28:54
Speaker 4: game had a ton of people there, and it's such
28:59
Speaker 4: a big rivalry. And I think both teams coming out
29:03
Speaker 4: of it can definitely think and say, that the officiating
29:07
Speaker 4: was not very good. And I think to that point,
29:13
Speaker 4: you don't want to end a game like that with
29:15
Speaker 4: that being your first thing that you say, that the
29:20
Speaker 4: officials weren't very good.
29:21
Speaker 3: Yeah.
29:22
Speaker 4: Because now you got– before you even talk about, okay,
29:25
Speaker 4: South Charleston really beat them, South Hills really did this,
29:29
Speaker 4: you go right straight to the official.
29:31
Speaker 3: Yeah. That's when you know it's a bad deal. Yeah.
29:34
Speaker 6: And it sounds like they really didn't play a factor
29:37
Speaker 6: in the outcome of the game. You know, the score
29:39
Speaker 6: was pretty– pretty.
29:40
Speaker 3: I don't.
29:40
Speaker 4: Think that they had a factor into the game as
29:43
Speaker 4: far as winning and losing.
29:44
Speaker 3: I really don't.
29:47
Speaker 7: Hollis, what do you think about that? No, I don't
29:49
Speaker 7: think they had a factor in that. It's just the
29:51
Speaker 7: watchability of it.
29:53
Speaker 3: That's the only thing.
29:54
Speaker 7: I mean, because, you know, GW, they clearly, you know,
29:58
Speaker 7: they were a better team on that night, but it's just,
30:01
Speaker 7: like I said, just watching it was just like exhausting.
30:04
Speaker 6: Yeah, exactly. They're like, not again, not again. Yeah. All right.
30:10
Speaker 6: All right, guys, I'm going to hop off here and
30:12
Speaker 6: let you guys finish the show. Thanks for having me.
30:14
Speaker 5: All right.
30:15
Speaker 3: We'll take a quick break and we'll be right back.
30:17
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31:42
Speaker 3: All right, ladies and gentlemen, we're back.
31:45
Speaker 4: So, Hollis, I'm going to switch subjects drastically, I think
31:49
Speaker 4: it's going to be.
31:50
Speaker 3: A safety issue. You know, there's a ton of former
31:56
Speaker 3: NFL players.
32:00
Speaker 4: Um, I think, I think they said something like 25%
32:03
Speaker 4: of former NFL players have some kind of, whether it's
32:10
Speaker 4: CTE or some kind of mental health issue.
32:13
Speaker 3: Yeah.
32:14
Speaker 4: And it's somewhat based all on the physicality of the
32:17
Speaker 4: game head first kind of stuff, which is how everybody
32:21
Speaker 4: was taught, you know? And, um, I think today, I
32:26
Speaker 4: think that there are, like I know there are like
32:28
Speaker 4: the guardian caps and all those kind of things. So
32:31
Speaker 4: I'd like to talk a little bit about the safety
32:34
Speaker 4: of the game and what are some of the things
32:38
Speaker 4: that we need to do. And is it a parent's
32:41
Speaker 4: issue to do this? Or would it be the league's
32:46
Speaker 4: issue when you start talking about, let's say... when I
32:51
Speaker 4: say the league's issue that they're saying that the school
32:54
Speaker 4: has to provide that equipment for them, or do you
32:59
Speaker 4: buy it yourself for your own protection? So, so I'm
33:04
Speaker 4: curious about where and who's responsible for that safety issue.
33:10
Speaker 7: Um, when it comes to head trauma, I think, I
33:13
Speaker 7: think everybody's responsible for it. It's no one entity. Like
33:17
Speaker 7: you have to be responsible for yourself. Um, And I
33:21
Speaker 7: would also say, like, we're just we're kind of reaching
33:24
Speaker 7: a point where I don't know as far as within
33:27
Speaker 7: the context of the style of play.
33:30
Speaker 3: I don't know what more we can do. Right.
33:32
Speaker 7: I think we have to teach like heads of football.
33:35
Speaker 7: You want to teach proper tackling, you know, at the youth,
33:38
Speaker 7: middle school and high school level. So guys know how
33:41
Speaker 7: to tackle. But I don't know if you can manipulate
33:47
Speaker 7: the game any further because we go too far.
33:49
Speaker 3: It's just going to be flag football.
33:52
Speaker 7: Um, but I think with emerging technologies, like we talked about,
33:56
Speaker 7: like the guardian caps and the different sort of style
33:58
Speaker 7: of helmets that maybe can even at some point, give
34:02
Speaker 7: you some data points that you can start to, um,
34:06
Speaker 7: sort of calculate and analyze, uh, again, even with the
34:10
Speaker 7: guardian caps, it's kind of one of those things where the,
34:13
Speaker 7: so far as the safety is sort of inconclusive in
34:16
Speaker 7: the research at this time. So, I think we just
34:19
Speaker 7: have to continue to make little strides. But just to
34:23
Speaker 7: answer your question, everybody's responsible. You're responsible for your own safety.
34:26
Speaker 7: Your parents are responsible for your kids. Coaches are responsible
34:28
Speaker 7: for everybody. As far as any governing body, whether it's WV, SSAC, NFL, NCAA,
34:34
Speaker 7: they're responsible as well.
34:38
Speaker 4: Okay, I'm going to try to agree with you in
34:42
Speaker 4: pieces of that. And when you say that, my first
34:48
Speaker 4: thought process is, okay, everybody's a part of it. I'm
34:54
Speaker 4: going to assume for the parents who do buy the
34:56
Speaker 4: guardian caps and have their kids play in it, that's
35:00
Speaker 4: a step.
35:00
Speaker 3: That's a huge step.
35:03
Speaker 4: But for the parent who doesn't or the parent who
35:06
Speaker 4: can't afford it, I'm looking at youth, starting out with
35:11
Speaker 4: the youth, and maybe even high school and or middle school.
35:17
Speaker 4: Is the school responsible to make sure they have them
35:21
Speaker 4: for the kids who can't get.
35:26
Speaker 3: Them? Does the colleges have them and say, hey, Hollis,
35:29
Speaker 3: do you want to wear one?
35:31
Speaker 7: I think to answer that question, And, again, the data
35:34
Speaker 7: on guardian caps is still inconclusive whether it actually protects
35:38
Speaker 7: you or not. That's just the information that I got.
35:41
Speaker 7: It hasn't necessarily been verified that this is going to
35:44
Speaker 7: 100% protect you. So once we get to that point
35:48
Speaker 7: where the technology is caught up and we have the
35:50
Speaker 7: research and we have the data and it said, like,
35:53
Speaker 7: this is going to prevent head trauma, at that point,
35:56
Speaker 7: once we know for sure, then I think it's on
36:01
Speaker 7: the school website. on the organization to provide that just
36:05
Speaker 7: like any other part.
36:06
Speaker 3: Of the uniform.
36:06
Speaker 4: Okay, so do you not think that, well, okay, to
36:12
Speaker 4: that point, okay, when are we starting?
36:15
Speaker 3: When are we going to get to the safety helmet.
36:18
Speaker 4: And test it?
36:19
Speaker 3: I think we're getting, we're to that point now. I
36:21
Speaker 3: just don't think we've had enough.
36:22
Speaker 7: And again, we had somebody to testify, you know, last
36:26
Speaker 7: lesson at the legislator and they conceded that point. Like
36:29
Speaker 7: this isn't necessarily something that we know for sure. But
36:32
Speaker 7: I think we're fastly approaching that point where we're figuring out,
36:37
Speaker 7: and again, figure out whether this style is going to
36:39
Speaker 7: protect us or we need to manipulate or change or da-da-da-da-da.
36:42
Speaker 7: But I think once we get to that point and
36:44
Speaker 7: once we know for sure, then it's on the organization
36:48
Speaker 7: to provide, in my opinion.
36:49
Speaker 5: This is an interesting thing, and we were just talking
36:52
Speaker 5: about the GW South Charleston game. South Charleston's been in
36:55
Speaker 5: the news here locally because they've got the new white
36:58
Speaker 5: helmets up there this year, and so... These are a
37:02
Speaker 5: donation that has technology in there. They've got like 50
37:06
Speaker 5: to 56 Rydell Axiom football helmets that are equipped with
37:10
Speaker 5: what's called Insight Analytics. And so this came through donations
37:15
Speaker 5: from the WV Medicine Thomas Foundation and the WV Rockefeller
37:19
Speaker 5: Neuroscience Institute. What these do is it gives them real-time
37:24
Speaker 5: data on hits to the top of the crown and
37:27
Speaker 5: the sides of the helmets. So they have that data
37:30
Speaker 5: to see how hard are they getting hit. They can
37:32
Speaker 5: recognize patterns and things like that. And my understanding is
37:36
Speaker 5: there are folks, medical staff, that are essentially able to
37:38
Speaker 5: look at that information. And this is going to be
37:43
Speaker 5: part of the research into CTE and things like that.
37:47
Speaker 5: And so we've got a team here in the Valley
37:49
Speaker 5: that's actually participating in potentially what might go out to
37:54
Speaker 5: all of these schools. Eventually, you'll have that real-time data
37:57
Speaker 5: Same thing as how you have like huddle and you're
37:59
Speaker 5: looking at video from last week. Now you're going to
38:02
Speaker 5: have head trauma data for your players in real time
38:06
Speaker 5: as well.
38:07
Speaker 7: And I think once we get to a point where
38:09
Speaker 7: we can figure out, like once we have the data
38:12
Speaker 7: and then we can figure out what to do with
38:14
Speaker 7: the data. Like, so we have this data and we
38:16
Speaker 7: can figure out, okay, these, these are the coaching points
38:19
Speaker 7: we need to have. These, these are the things that
38:21
Speaker 7: we need to do to make sure that this level
38:24
Speaker 7: does increase or this level doesn't increase. Then I think,
38:27
Speaker 7: we implemented statewide and nationwide.
38:30
Speaker 4: And also, and I don't know this at all, okay,
38:37
Speaker 4: but I'm going to say it as if I know
38:40
Speaker 4: that it's true. There's a place where we may have
38:46
Speaker 4: to change how we approach tackling.
38:51
Speaker 3: And we've done that, right? Have we?
38:53
Speaker 7: Yeah, we've definitely done that. Even the way the game's called,
38:58
Speaker 7: you're not leading with your helmet anymore. Them days is
39:01
Speaker 7: pretty much coming to a close.
39:04
Speaker 4: And I do know that rule. And I know that
39:07
Speaker 4: there are rules that, you know, helmet to helmet and
39:11
Speaker 4: that kind of stuff.
39:12
Speaker 7: And even like dragging players down from the back.
39:15
Speaker 3: So I think we've changed it.
39:17
Speaker 7: It's just that the question is, it can only change
39:20
Speaker 7: so much. There's still gonna be head-to-head contact. There's still
39:25
Speaker 7: gonna be hard hits. It ain't gonna change but so much. Well,
39:28
Speaker 7: and see, and I see that too. because, again, I'm
39:33
Speaker 7: coming to tackle you. I don't have the time.
39:38
Speaker 4: To try to, well, let me get my head off
39:41
Speaker 4: to the side or, you know, that kind of thing.
39:43
Speaker 3: And even if you try, the running back can still.
39:45
Speaker 4: You still may come at me and we end up with.
39:48
Speaker 3: Head to head.
39:49
Speaker 7: There's an element of danger with this, and that's football.
39:51
Speaker 7: That is football. It ain't going to change. And I
39:54
Speaker 7: think that, but to Matt's point, if we can get
39:57
Speaker 7: some more data points, so maybe in those situations, if
40:01
Speaker 7: we're seeing a kid who has a high, you know,
40:05
Speaker 7: data point that's going to be bad to, you know,
40:08
Speaker 7: a specific part of his brain, maybe we can say, hey, man,
40:10
Speaker 7: you need to sit or you need to work on
40:13
Speaker 7: some things or we can, you know, at least we
40:14
Speaker 7: can have some data that we can analyze to figure
40:17
Speaker 7: out different ways we can, you know, help this kid
40:21
Speaker 7: not further that injury.
40:22
Speaker 3: You know what I mean? So, yes, I do.
40:27
Speaker 4: But let's, okay, so let's assume I make this contact.
40:33
Speaker 4: And I lead with my head and all of a
40:36
Speaker 4: sudden I have this concussion and we go through the
40:39
Speaker 4: whole concussion protocol on the sidelines, all that kind of stuff.
40:44
Speaker 3: And likely the best thing you would think is I'm
40:46
Speaker 3: not back in.
40:47
Speaker 2: Yeah.
40:49
Speaker 4: But there is no specific rule saying that I can't
40:53
Speaker 4: come back in.
40:54
Speaker 3: No, there is. You can't come back. If you got
40:56
Speaker 3: a diagnosed concussion, you're out. Okay. Yeah.
41:00
Speaker 7: Now, again, how do we diagnose that? That's one thing.
41:03
Speaker 7: But if you have a concussion, you are done. Okay,
41:07
Speaker 7: which is, I understand the reality. But to your point,
41:12
Speaker 7: like you said, the question is, did that take place?
41:15
Speaker 7: You know, did that actually, did it take place? Because
41:18
Speaker 7: we all know you may get, for every concussion that
41:21
Speaker 7: you got diagnosed with, you probably had 20 of them.
41:24
Speaker 6: Yes.
41:26
Speaker 3: And it depends on... How you react to it. Yeah.
41:32
Speaker 4: You know, are you laying out on the field? You know,
41:35
Speaker 4: you're just out there. Getting up slow. Getting up slow.
41:40
Speaker 4: And if you make that contact and you get up
41:44
Speaker 4: and go right back to the huddle, it's somebody saying, hey,
41:48
Speaker 4: let's get him out of the game. And I'm not
41:51
Speaker 4: trying to put– talk bad about coaching or the trainer.
41:57
Speaker 4: I'm just saying it's not something that we're used to doing,
42:01
Speaker 4: especially with you as the star player.
42:04
Speaker 3: You know, you as a quarterback and you get hit,
42:06
Speaker 3: your head hits the ground. So I didn't hit you.
42:11
Speaker 4: In the head, but your head hit the ground and
42:13
Speaker 4: you get up and you might be dizzy, but you're
42:15
Speaker 4: trying to stay in the game because you're trying to win.
42:17
Speaker 4: But I think there is two things can be true.
42:19
Speaker 4: So we can try to make the game as safe
42:22
Speaker 4: as possible. and we can use technology to help us
42:26
Speaker 4: do that. And then you're talking about that being in
42:27
Speaker 4: the helmet. Yeah, being in the helmet. And also, this
42:31
Speaker 4: game is dangerous. There's going to be concussions. There's going
42:34
Speaker 4: to be catastrophic injuries. There are going to be really
42:38
Speaker 4: bad injuries, and that's the reality of it. And we
42:41
Speaker 4: cannot legislate that. We cannot technology our way out of that.
42:47
Speaker 4: That is the nature of football. And I think that, again,
42:53
Speaker 4: We have to do everything that we can do to
42:55
Speaker 4: make it safer, but it ain't never going to be safe.
42:59
Speaker 5: Here's where I see the game going. If they're going
43:01
Speaker 5: to have technology and helmets now that can tell how
43:05
Speaker 5: hard you hit, I think there's going to be a
43:07
Speaker 5: doctor on the sideline with an iPad, and you take
43:10
Speaker 5: a hit, they're going to get a notification that says
43:12
Speaker 5: you need to pull that player and double check to
43:14
Speaker 5: make sure they're okay.
43:15
Speaker 3: 100%. I think that's where it's going. I would love
43:19
Speaker 3: to think that would be where they would take it.
43:22
Speaker 7: But, again, there's going to be another argument to that.
43:25
Speaker 7: There's going to be another side to that.
43:27
Speaker 5: The fact of the matter is, like in our cell phones,
43:30
Speaker 5: for example, the other day I was coming down Virginia
43:33
Speaker 5: Street here to come to the office, and somebody was
43:35
Speaker 5: driving the wrong way up Leon Sullivan Way, and I
43:37
Speaker 5: had to slam on my brakes, and my phone went flying.
43:40
Speaker 5: I got onto the lot here, and my phone starts saying, hey,
43:43
Speaker 5: we detected you might be in a crash. We're going
43:45
Speaker 5: to call 911. Wow. If my phone knows that when
43:48
Speaker 5: I'm driving, they can put technology like that in a
43:52
Speaker 5: helmet that says, wow, that was a hard hit. We
43:54
Speaker 5: might need to check him out.
43:55
Speaker 7: And again, just to play devil's advocate, you are going
43:57
Speaker 7: to have a contingency on the other side of that saying, well,
43:59
Speaker 7: the technology don't know this and that, and it's going
44:02
Speaker 7: to ruin the game, and it's going to slow down
44:04
Speaker 7: the game, and it's going to cost me wins, and da-da-da-da-da-da-da.
44:07
Speaker 3: There's another side of that.
44:08
Speaker 4: Yes, and I would say this to anybody who is like,
44:11
Speaker 4: I don't even understand why they're having that conversation about it.
44:16
Speaker 4: It is a safety issue for a ton of players,
44:23
Speaker 4: and I'll just say, players who have gone from youth football,
44:29
Speaker 4: middle school, high school, college, and pro. And those guys
44:34
Speaker 4: that have made it to that level who are no
44:38
Speaker 4: longer here. And specifically because of those head injuries. And
44:47
Speaker 4: to me, I'm thinking that it is super, super, super,
44:53
Speaker 4: super important that to be talking about this even if
44:57
Speaker 4: it's a second time around.
44:59
Speaker 3: Because it's just too important.
45:02
Speaker 4: And if everybody loves football, if the majority of people
45:06
Speaker 4: love football more than any other sport, We have to
45:10
Speaker 4: continue to try to make it as safe as possible.
45:13
Speaker 3: Yeah.
45:14
Speaker 7: And I think also when we talk about that safety,
45:17
Speaker 7: because we could talk about like a singular hard hit,
45:20
Speaker 7: which may not necessarily be detrimental at all.
45:24
Speaker 3: Right.
45:25
Speaker 7: But I also think, to Matt's point, it's the accumulation
45:27
Speaker 7: of hits. So I think probably part of that analyst
45:31
Speaker 7: is going to be not only did he get this
45:34
Speaker 7: player got hit this hard times, but we're, we're looking
45:37
Speaker 7: at this iPad and this is kind of the third
45:39
Speaker 7: or fourth or fifth or 10th hit. So I think
45:42
Speaker 7: to that degree, I think that can be very useful,
45:44
Speaker 7: but I also think again, there's just so to me
45:48
Speaker 7: is such a balancing act because again, when I talk
45:50
Speaker 7: about the accumulation of hits, I think we have to, you,
45:53
Speaker 7: you're looking at from youth on.
45:55
Speaker 6: Yeah.
45:55
Speaker 5: Right.
45:55
Speaker 7: You're not looking at college and in high school or
45:59
Speaker 7: have a record when you leave, let's say like high
46:02
Speaker 7: school to college, but to my, yeah.
46:05
Speaker 3: Go ahead.
46:07
Speaker 4: You go from high school to college. You decide you're
46:10
Speaker 4: going to go to this particular college. This documentation goes
46:14
Speaker 4: with you because of it's not, like you said, it's not,
46:18
Speaker 4: you know, if you're one of those continuous guys who
46:22
Speaker 4: make a hit and end up finding something's wrong.
46:26
Speaker 3: Yeah. The next level.
46:29
Speaker 7: That you go to has to be aware of that. Yeah,
46:32
Speaker 7: that's actually a really good point. Yeah, I didn't think
46:35
Speaker 7: of that. So that document will follow you.
46:37
Speaker 3: Yes.
46:38
Speaker 7: But I also think, again, it's a fine balance because
46:42
Speaker 7: I don't know if we, and again, I'm going to
46:47
Speaker 7: sound lukewarm on this, even to my own point, but
46:51
Speaker 7: I don't know if we should be playing Little League
46:55
Speaker 7: in middle football. I don't know anymore. Like I'm really conflicted.
46:59
Speaker 3: I don't know.
47:00
Speaker 7: Football maybe just needs to start in ninth grade. But
47:04
Speaker 7: the problem with doing that, if we do that, then
47:07
Speaker 7: you're going to lose a lot of kids if they
47:10
Speaker 7: can't play until ninth grade. Because I think, again, accumulation
47:14
Speaker 7: of hits is just. And again, I don't know what
47:18
Speaker 7: studies we have out there. somebody who played from youth
47:22
Speaker 7: football to possibly made it to the NFL or high
47:26
Speaker 7: level or just made it, played four years in college.
47:29
Speaker 3: But that's a lot of hits.
47:30
Speaker 8: Yeah.
47:31
Speaker 7: That's a lot of hits from five to 23. That's
47:34
Speaker 7: a lot of hits. Yeah, and think about it. There's
47:36
Speaker 7: a ton of players who have done all of those,
47:40
Speaker 7: have that example. There's an opportunity to test that. But
47:47
Speaker 7: can we test that now, like after the fact? I
47:49
Speaker 7: think so.
47:50
Speaker 4: Because usually what happens, and CTE.
47:54
Speaker 3: Doesn't typically happen during a season.
47:57
Speaker 4: It's usually when you retire, and now you're sitting around,
48:03
Speaker 4: and over time, all of a sudden, you're forgetting this,
48:08
Speaker 4: and you can't, all these kinds of problems are showing
48:11
Speaker 4: up later on.
48:14
Speaker 3: Then I think they are.
48:15
Speaker 4: Now, can you have CTE at 25?
48:19
Speaker 3: I'm sure you can. Yeah, maybe. But, again, I don't know.
48:25
Speaker 6: I don't know.
48:27
Speaker 4: If you can have it that early, that means you
48:29
Speaker 4: have had some major contact.
48:31
Speaker 3: But does it? But is it major contact or accumulation
48:34
Speaker 3: of contact? Well, I'll say accumulation.
48:36
Speaker 7: Yeah, but, again, we're saying this on one hand, but
48:41
Speaker 7: I think conversations like this could, again— With the technology,
48:46
Speaker 7: that's obviously going to help. And the technology, I think,
48:49
Speaker 7: is the thing that's going to save the day because
48:51
Speaker 7: the technology is going to be the thing that give
48:54
Speaker 7: us those data points. And to your point, the technology
48:57
Speaker 7: has got to follow that player.
48:58
Speaker 8: Yes.
48:59
Speaker 7: So we have to have some– and I don't know
49:01
Speaker 7: HIPAA and all that other stuff, how you get around that.
49:03
Speaker 7: But there has to be some say of, like, you're
49:05
Speaker 7: going to play football, you hand over these medical records. And, again,
49:08
Speaker 7: and I think with football too– Like I think every
49:12
Speaker 7: level we need trainers and we need doctors and we
49:16
Speaker 7: need specialists. Like you cannot just play this game and I,
49:20
Speaker 7: and even at a high school level in my opinion
49:22
Speaker 7: and not have some sort of again i with cte
49:26
Speaker 7: you can't necessarily get tested but it's like you said
49:28
Speaker 7: there's some sort of research something that can.
49:30
Speaker 4: Be something and again i'm and i and i I
49:33
Speaker 4: don't know if there's student trainers who are.
49:36
Speaker 7: No, we need to train. No offense to nobody. No offense,
49:39
Speaker 7: but you need a doctor.
49:41
Speaker 3: You need a doctor. At least one. At least one doctor.
49:44
Speaker 3: One at every game. At every game.
49:45
Speaker 4: And you don't have to be. It doesn't have to
49:49
Speaker 4: be a team side. You are there to protect the
49:52
Speaker 4: players and whether it's. You at South Hills, me at
49:56
Speaker 4: South Charleston, either one of us go down, that doctor
50:00
Speaker 4: needs to be able to check you out.
50:02
Speaker 7: And I think to Matt's point, having that technology and
50:06
Speaker 7: having a doctor or some sort of medical personnel that's
50:10
Speaker 7: able to decipher that in real time can be really,
50:13
Speaker 7: really useful.
50:14
Speaker 5: I think one of the other big things that's going
50:16
Speaker 5: to come out of this kind of research is eventually
50:19
Speaker 5: they're going to be able to look at a player
50:21
Speaker 5: over the course of their career and they're going to
50:22
Speaker 5: see whether okay, you had 40 really big hits, and
50:27
Speaker 5: that caused CTE, versus you had 200 hits, none of
50:31
Speaker 5: them were big, but you had so many of them.
50:34
Speaker 5: Because I don't think right now they even necessarily know,
50:37
Speaker 5: is it the big hits, is it the small, is
50:39
Speaker 5: it just all of it?
50:41
Speaker 3: Accumulation of them?
50:42
Speaker 5: The research is going to eventually allow them to see
50:47
Speaker 5: where the cause is.
50:49
Speaker 3: I like that.
50:50
Speaker 7: Yeah, and how soon do we think that's going to be?
50:55
Speaker 7: I think it's happening now. I think with the AI
50:58
Speaker 7: and how it's moving. And I think the biggest hurdle,
51:01
Speaker 7: as we know, is always going to be money, particularly
51:03
Speaker 7: getting this technology inside of helmets and making sure everybody
51:07
Speaker 7: has it and then trying to cloud and keep the
51:10
Speaker 7: data and different things of that nature. That's going to
51:12
Speaker 7: be the big thing. But I think if we're interested
51:16
Speaker 7: in saving football money, then it has to start with
51:19
Speaker 7: stuff like this.
51:20
Speaker 3: Yes.
51:21
Speaker 7: Because this game, we've seen like Vans program here in
51:24
Speaker 7: the southern part of the county.
51:25
Speaker 3: They don't have a football team anymore. They had 12.
51:27
Speaker 7: They didn't have a football team, I think, the last
51:29
Speaker 7: two years. They finally got 12 kids to come out
51:32
Speaker 7: this year. And again, it's not a big school, right?
51:35
Speaker 7: Not a big school, but they have 12 kids. A
51:37
Speaker 7: school like Vann back in the day, they have 30,
51:39
Speaker 7: 40 kids there. You know, football team was always packed,
51:42
Speaker 7: but now you're seeing soccer teams and different things of
51:44
Speaker 7: that nature because parents are simply making different decisions about
51:47
Speaker 7: just not playing this, at least not early. And if
51:50
Speaker 7: you don't play it early, you're going to lose interest
51:52
Speaker 7: later as far as playing the game. So I think
51:54
Speaker 7: if we're interested in saving the game, you have to
51:56
Speaker 7: implement technology in a way that's at the very least
52:00
Speaker 7: going to give us something useful that we can use.
52:03
Speaker 3: All right, before we go, I.
52:07
Speaker 4: Want to make sure I'm good with you on where
52:11
Speaker 4: do you think we should start?
52:15
Speaker 3: Tackle football age-wise? What do you think? Ninth grade. Do you?
52:20
Speaker 7: And again, and I say that hesitantly. I'm a guy
52:22
Speaker 7: who I loved playing in junior high, middle school. I
52:26
Speaker 7: loved my youth program. It got me tough and ready.
52:29
Speaker 7: But I think, I'll say this, it's going to have
52:34
Speaker 7: to be ninth grade or we are going to have
52:38
Speaker 7: to have a sanctioned youth program middle school sort of organization.
52:45
Speaker 3: I didn't say middle school. Middle school is kind of sanctioned.
52:47
Speaker 7: But at the very least, at the youth level, it's
52:49
Speaker 7: going to have to be a little bit more structured
52:52
Speaker 7: and structured, using my words, because what we can't do anymore,
52:58
Speaker 7: we can't go out here and just play to play,
53:01
Speaker 7: and we can't have coaches who don't know what they're doing,
53:04
Speaker 7: and we can't have coaches who are encouraging football players
53:07
Speaker 7: to play a 10, 12 football game the game season
53:11
Speaker 7: and then turn around and play a travel ball where
53:14
Speaker 7: you're playing two and three football games in a weekend.
53:18
Speaker 7: We can't do that no more. If you're doing that,
53:21
Speaker 7: you're not doing that because you love kids or you
53:23
Speaker 7: love coaching.
53:23
Speaker 3: You're doing that for you.
53:24
Speaker 7: So I say, and again, let me backtrack, but I
53:27
Speaker 7: say at the earliest, at the earliest seventh grade, maybe
53:31
Speaker 7: eighth grade, we'll say seventh.
53:33
Speaker 6: Yeah.
53:33
Speaker 3: At the earliest seventh grade, unless we have structure.
53:37
Speaker 4: See, I would be okay with, with, seventh grade and
53:40
Speaker 4: then using flag for the youth.
53:44
Speaker 3: Yeah.
53:45
Speaker 7: And you could do like pads so they can still
53:47
Speaker 7: get like a little bump.
53:48
Speaker 4: Yeah.
53:49
Speaker 3: You can put, you can actually put them in pads
53:50
Speaker 3: for all that matters.
53:52
Speaker 4: And still, so you get used to wearing a helmet,
53:54
Speaker 4: you get used to wearing shoulder pads and all that
53:57
Speaker 4: kind of stuff. I think that would, that would be good.
54:03
Speaker 4: And I'll say this on, on your, on your comment.
54:10
Speaker 4: I don't know how anybody at this point in time
54:17
Speaker 4: could not see this is an issue that is an
54:25
Speaker 4: urgent issue to address.
54:29
Speaker 3: I just don't know how we're going year to year,
54:33
Speaker 3: to year, to year, to year.
54:34
Speaker 4: And we're not calling in organizations, um, And talking about
54:42
Speaker 4: how are we going to protect the younger kids? How
54:45
Speaker 4: are we going to protect the middle school kids? What
54:48
Speaker 4: are we going to do? Is there something going on?
54:52
Speaker 4: And I could be wrong because maybe there is something
54:55
Speaker 4: going in behind the covers and I don't know. But
54:59
Speaker 4: at this point, I think that should be something that
55:02
Speaker 4: is public. Because... I want to know what's the future
55:07
Speaker 4: for my grandson, you know, if he wants to play ball.
55:13
Speaker 7: And I just want to clean up my comment. My
55:14
Speaker 7: comment is to say if we have no structure at
55:16
Speaker 7: the youth level, then I think you should start at
55:19
Speaker 7: the earliest ninth grade. If we're going to have structure
55:23
Speaker 7: at the youth level, I'm talking about governing body, I
55:25
Speaker 7: think the earliest maybe is seventh grade. But I can
55:28
Speaker 7: concede to your point that maybe it needs to be
55:30
Speaker 7: flagged up until maybe sixth, seventh grade. But what I'm
55:35
Speaker 7: just advocating for is I think we have to be very,
55:38
Speaker 7: very careful and we have football has got to, at
55:41
Speaker 7: the youth level has got to get out of the
55:43
Speaker 7: mentality of win, win, win. We have got to get
55:46
Speaker 7: in more of the mentality of development first, win second.
55:50
Speaker 7: And we have to be, we have to think about
55:54
Speaker 7: safety over everything. And that means that to me, If
55:59
Speaker 7: you're going to play travel ball, just go ahead and
56:00
Speaker 7: implement it into a season and y'all just travel around
56:03
Speaker 7: and y'all can play different teams if you think you're
56:05
Speaker 7: that big and bad.
56:06
Speaker 3: Fine, that's cool.
56:07
Speaker 7: But you shouldn't be playing no season and then playing
56:09
Speaker 7: a second season and a third season of football because
56:13
Speaker 7: you're doing that for your ego, not for the kids.
56:15
Speaker 4: Yes, and I have told a number of people, travel
56:20
Speaker 4: football to where you play Friday, Saturday, Sunday, a football game.
56:25
Speaker 3: You play three days.
56:27
Speaker 4: So you play back-to-back games on each one of those days,
56:32
Speaker 4: and then you got to come back and you got
56:35
Speaker 4: to have practice.
56:37
Speaker 3: In the week.
56:38
Speaker 7: So let's just say you have practice. That's if you
56:40
Speaker 7: have practice. Yeah, and you got to imagine, some kids
56:42
Speaker 7: are doing this. Some kids, they're doing this in ninth grade.
56:46
Speaker 7: So you have some kids that are playing like ninth
56:48
Speaker 7: grade ball and then they're still playing, depending on their age,
56:51
Speaker 7: and then they're still doing this travel crap.
56:53
Speaker 4: Parents, I'm telling you, more football is not a better
56:57
Speaker 4: way to get your child into college on a college scholarship.
57:03
Speaker 5: It is not. What happens to certain players? You play
57:05
Speaker 5: football in the fall and then you go out and
57:07
Speaker 5: play baseball in the spring. You play different sports because
57:10
Speaker 5: then you learn hand-eye coordination, things like that.
57:12
Speaker 4: All of those kinds of things are still available.
57:16
Speaker 5: The perfect example for me is Arnold Schwarzenegger. When he
57:20
Speaker 5: was doing the whole bodybuilding thing and he was trying
57:24
Speaker 5: to learn how to pose, he went to a ballet
57:26
Speaker 5: teacher to learn how to pose his body. You go
57:30
Speaker 5: out and you play other sports. You learn hand-eye coordination.
57:33
Speaker 5: You're running differently on the baseball diamond than you are
57:36
Speaker 5: on the football field or.
57:37
Speaker 3: On the basketball court.
57:40
Speaker 5: It has to help your overall athletic ability to go
57:43
Speaker 5: play more sports.
57:44
Speaker 7: And the thing about it, and that's why I just
57:46
Speaker 7: say you need organizations that are going to promote this
57:48
Speaker 7: sort of thing. Like if you're going to have your
57:50
Speaker 7: AAU thing, make it like a year-round where you have
57:54
Speaker 7: sort of like a sports academy where I'm saying, okay,
57:57
Speaker 7: we're going to play football now, then we're going to
57:58
Speaker 7: do basketball and wrestling, and then we're going to do
58:01
Speaker 7: track and tennis and baseball, and then we're going to
58:03
Speaker 7: do swim in the summer. But it has to be
58:05
Speaker 7: something like that because what we're doing now, if you're
58:06
Speaker 7: just playing basketball all year round, you're not really getting
58:10
Speaker 7: that better of a basketball player. And certainly football, forgetting
58:12
Speaker 7: the other sport, football, that's just, in my opinion, that's irresponsible.
58:17
Speaker 3: Yes, yes. I'll just say this out loud.
58:22
Speaker 4: If your kid is playing travel football and playing three
58:25
Speaker 4: football games a On a weekend, you are hurting your child.
58:32
Speaker 7: 100%.
58:33
Speaker 4: I mean, there's no other, there's, he doesn't need to
58:37
Speaker 4: be playing three games. In the NFL, you play one
58:41
Speaker 4: game a week and it's causing issues. You know, and
58:47
Speaker 4: you can say, oh, well, yeah, but they're not getting
58:48
Speaker 4: hit like that. But nor are they developed enough. Or
58:53
Speaker 4: is their brain developed as well as a professional athlete? No.
58:57
Speaker 1: Yeah.
58:58
Speaker 7: And as for much as I love football, man, if
59:00
Speaker 7: I was 10, 11, 12 years old, I don't want
59:02
Speaker 7: to play no three games.
59:03
Speaker 2: No.
59:03
Speaker 5: No.
59:04
Speaker 7: I can say that right now. I could just i
59:06
Speaker 7: like playing a lot and i played in college and
59:08
Speaker 7: all that but i don't want to play no three
59:10
Speaker 7: games in the weekend man.
59:12
Speaker 5: Here's a hot take for you the reason the nba
59:14
Speaker 5: is so soft today is because all those players didn't
59:17
Speaker 5: grow up playing football too that's there's no contact they
59:20
Speaker 5: didn't they didn't play any contact.
59:22
Speaker 4: Sports that's true and and it's it's a great sport
59:27
Speaker 4: to play You have to be careful in it. You know,
59:33
Speaker 4: it's not as safe as you might want.
59:36
Speaker 3: But it is a great sport.
59:39
Speaker 4: And if you overdo it, you're hurting your child.
59:46
Speaker 7: And I think in a bigger sense, in a more
59:49
Speaker 7: macro sense, you're kind of hurting the game too.
59:51
Speaker 3: Yes. Because to Matt's point, I mean, I think burnout
59:54
Speaker 3: is real.
59:55
Speaker 4: Yep.
59:55
Speaker 3: Oh, for sure.
59:56
Speaker 7: And if you're like a basketball, baseball player, man, you know,
59:59
Speaker 7: I could play three, four basketball games in a weekend.
1:00:02
Speaker 7: We can do that all day, every day. But you
1:00:04
Speaker 7: ain't trying to like play no football like that. Like
1:00:06
Speaker 7: you ain't trying to be pressured into doing that.
1:00:09
Speaker 3: You know what I mean?
1:00:09
Speaker 4: How do you get up for it? You finish on Friday,
1:00:15
Speaker 4: go to Saturday, play Saturday morning. Now you're going to
1:00:18
Speaker 4: play next Saturday. How many ever games you.
1:00:20
Speaker 3: Play on Saturday? You might play Saturday morning and then
1:00:22
Speaker 3: Sunday afternoon. Yes.
1:00:24
Speaker 7: And then Sunday morning and Sunday afternoon, then I got
1:00:26
Speaker 7: to drive two, three hours home.
1:00:27
Speaker 3: Like, that's nuts.
1:00:29
Speaker 4: I don't know how.
1:00:30
Speaker 3: And I'm for everybody making their money, and I'm not
1:00:32
Speaker 3: hating on nothing.
1:00:32
Speaker 7: Me either.
1:00:33
Speaker 3: Me either.
1:00:34
Speaker 4: But I just don't know how your child could be
1:00:36
Speaker 4: okay doing that.
1:00:38
Speaker 5: Yeah, man.
1:00:39
Speaker 3: All right, well, for all the people we made mad,
1:00:41
Speaker 3: we apologize, but it's the truth. Yeah, we definitely made
1:00:44
Speaker 3: some people upset for sure. All right, Hollis, we'll get
1:00:47
Speaker 3: out of here. We'll be back again next week.
1:01:13
Speaker 4: Thank you.