Latest / The Breakfast Club / INTERVIEW: Black Thought Opens Up On Childhood Trauma, Confronting His Demons, Early Days Of The Roots + More

Transcript

INTERVIEW: Black Thought Opens Up On Childhood Trauma, Confronting His Demons, Early Days Of The Roots + More · The Breakfast Club

0:00
Speaker 1: Wake that ass up in the morning.
0:02
Speaker 2: Breakfast Club.
0:04
Speaker 3: Morning everybody, it's the j Envy Charlamagne to God, we
0:08
Speaker 3: are the Breakfast Club. We got a special guest in
0:10
Speaker 3: the building. Yes, indeed, brother black Thought, welcome back.
0:13
Speaker 2: Yeah, man, thank you, thank you, thank you, Larry black Thought.
0:16
Speaker 2: I'm great. I'm great. I feel great this morning. Man.
0:18
Speaker 4: I put out amazing book called The Upcycled Self, Cycled Self.
0:27
Speaker 5: What does that title meant?
0:29
Speaker 2: You know?
0:30
Speaker 6: Essentially, it's about, you know, putting those parts of our
0:34
Speaker 6: of our of ourselves, of our of our past. You
0:37
Speaker 6: know what I'm saying that I'm no longer going to
0:39
Speaker 6: service or no longer going to service in the same
0:41
Speaker 6: way to a different use, you know what I'm saying,
0:43
Speaker 6: to a better use.
0:45
Speaker 2: Right.
0:46
Speaker 6: So that's that's what it's about. Really, it's a it's
0:49
Speaker 6: a self help memoir of sorts.
0:51
Speaker 5: Yeah, the art of becoming who we are.
0:54
Speaker 4: Always wonder why did it take us so long to
0:57
Speaker 4: discover who we actually are?
1:00
Speaker 2: Yeah?
1:00
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, you know, it's a it's it's a process,
1:04
Speaker 6: you know what I mean, it's it's it's valleys and peaks,
1:07
Speaker 6: and I think it's uh, you know, you you you
1:09
Speaker 6: you arrive at and understanding of who you are you know, uh,
1:13
Speaker 6: over time. So it's really no shortcut, you know what
1:16
Speaker 6: I'm saying. It's a uh it's a lot of people
1:19
Speaker 6: that think you can go from from you know, A
1:22
Speaker 6: A to Z, but you gotta you gotta go B, C, D, E.
1:26
Speaker 5: F G first, you know what I'm saying.
1:28
Speaker 4: And it teaches you too that you know, everything is parallel,
1:31
Speaker 4: like there's really nothing behind.
1:33
Speaker 6: You absolutely, you know what I mean. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
1:36
Speaker 6: and and and this book is about that too. It's
1:38
Speaker 6: about you know, accepting uh the present, you know what
1:41
Speaker 6: I mean. It's just you know, living, uh, being more
1:44
Speaker 6: intentional about about your presence.
1:47
Speaker 2: So yeah, that's that's that's why I'm at with it.
1:49
Speaker 3: Did you get a chance to deal with all the
1:51
Speaker 3: trauma before you put it in this book?
1:53
Speaker 1: Or was it some of it was releasing that trauma
1:56
Speaker 1: by writing this book.
1:57
Speaker 6: Yeah, a lot of the trauma, you know, it was
1:59
Speaker 6: it was addressed in during the process, you know, and
2:03
Speaker 6: that's that's what made it, you know, just like this
2:06
Speaker 6: was my therapy. It was really you know, a cathartic
2:09
Speaker 6: sort of experience, and more so than I'd expected. I mean,
2:12
Speaker 6: you know, you know your your history, right, but when
2:15
Speaker 6: it's laid out there, you know what I mean, when
2:17
Speaker 6: you have it on on the Q cards and you
2:20
Speaker 6: know what I mean and you're reading it, uh, you
2:23
Speaker 6: know in a linear sort of way. I mean, it
2:25
Speaker 6: just hits different man, it hits it hits differently. And
2:27
Speaker 6: there was something that uh, my co author Jasmine Martin
2:31
Speaker 6: was able to, uh to employ like a tool she
2:34
Speaker 6: was able to use during this process that you know,
2:37
Speaker 6: it just it really hit me hard when I was
2:39
Speaker 6: reading one of the final drafts of the book and
2:42
Speaker 6: it was you know, she was able to speak. There's
2:45
Speaker 6: an a side section where you hear, uh, you know
2:49
Speaker 6: my mother, like you hear my mother's perspective, and uh,
2:53
Speaker 6: the way she was able to, uh, you know, just
2:55
Speaker 6: to approximate my mother's perspective in her voice, That's what
2:58
Speaker 6: really really hit me hard in the process.
3:00
Speaker 3: Did you have did you have a question your faith
3:03
Speaker 3: as a kid growing up? Because you talk about so
3:05
Speaker 3: much death in your life and all the stuff that
3:07
Speaker 3: you've been through, did you ever say, you know, what,
3:09
Speaker 3: does this really exists?
3:11
Speaker 1: Is there really a God or whoever you believe it?
3:13
Speaker 1: Did you have a question your faith?
3:14
Speaker 2: At all I did.
3:16
Speaker 6: Yeah, there's definitely been times, you know when you I've
3:19
Speaker 6: questioned my my faith, uh you know, or I mean
3:23
Speaker 6: just on the existential tip, you know what I mean,
3:26
Speaker 6: like if there's a god, you know, how could all
3:29
Speaker 6: of this you know, loss and trauma and and and
3:32
Speaker 6: and and death, uh, you know exists. It's some of
3:36
Speaker 6: the stuff that I write about. How how was the
3:38
Speaker 6: world this ugly? If you made it in your image?
3:41
Speaker 2: Man?
3:41
Speaker 6: You know what I'm saying. That's one of my bars
3:42
Speaker 6: from a song called Dear God. But yeah, to answer
3:46
Speaker 6: your question, definitely.
3:46
Speaker 1: How did you get that back?
3:47
Speaker 3: And the reason I asked is if you don't know,
3:49
Speaker 3: when you read the book, you'll find out that you
3:51
Speaker 3: lost your father at a young age.
3:52
Speaker 1: You lost your mom at a young age as well.
3:53
Speaker 1: Both both have murdered.
3:55
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, murder victims.
3:56
Speaker 1: But how did you get that faith back?
3:58
Speaker 2: Through the arts? Through the art? Man?
4:00
Speaker 6: Like for me, it was it was it was visual art,
4:04
Speaker 6: which was my gateway you know, into music, and and
4:08
Speaker 6: that's that's what really saved my life.
4:09
Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying.
4:10
Speaker 6: It was a game changer that I would have been
4:12
Speaker 6: on the I was already on it. I was on
4:13
Speaker 6: that path, and you know, me meeting quest love when
4:16
Speaker 6: I did, which you know I talk about in the book,
4:19
Speaker 6: and just getting on on that musical trajectory of the
4:22
Speaker 6: arts is what really saved me. Now, I know you
4:24
Speaker 6: was a baby when your father was tragically murdered, when
4:27
Speaker 6: the teenager when your mother was Were you able to
4:30
Speaker 6: process that pain in the moment or was that something
4:33
Speaker 6: that you dealt with as you got older.
4:35
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's something that I'm still dealing with.
4:38
Speaker 6: I definitely was not able to process it in the moment,
4:42
Speaker 6: you know, no matter how hard I tried, right, you know,
4:44
Speaker 6: I wanted to feel all the emotion that that you
4:47
Speaker 6: you know, you expect you would expect one to feel
4:50
Speaker 6: when you experienced that sort of loss. But I mean
4:52
Speaker 6: for me, it was I mean, it took forever before
4:55
Speaker 6: I was even able to shed a tear about, you know,
4:58
Speaker 6: my mother's murder. Know, And I think it's just because
5:02
Speaker 6: there was so many layers of callous and and scar
5:05
Speaker 6: tissue to sort of work through.
5:06
Speaker 2: And that's what that's what this book is about.
5:08
Speaker 6: It's about that armor that you know, at one point
5:11
Speaker 6: in time, it might it might serve as a defense mechanism.
5:14
Speaker 6: It might you know, protect you, but as we move
5:17
Speaker 6: through life and you get into different spaces, you start
5:19
Speaker 6: to interact with different people, and you know, you're now
5:22
Speaker 6: you in these different dynamics, they no longer service in
5:24
Speaker 6: the same way.
5:25
Speaker 4: What about vengeance and revenge like, how do you ultimately let.
5:29
Speaker 5: Let that go?
5:30
Speaker 6: I mean, yeah, yeah, I'm I feeling I definitely feel
5:34
Speaker 6: like I have. It's that's that was just a wise move.
5:37
Speaker 6: I think I definitely came to to to understand as
5:41
Speaker 6: a young person, when I was still a teenager that uh,
5:43
Speaker 6: you know, holding on to uh to to negative energy
5:47
Speaker 6: in that way. You know, it's as that's as detrimental
5:51
Speaker 6: to you know, the beholder as it is to whoever
5:54
Speaker 6: you're trying to project it upon.
5:56
Speaker 2: So there, Yeah, I've never really sat.
5:58
Speaker 6: With uh, you know, whole vengeance in that way, you
6:02
Speaker 6: know what I mean, as far as like in the
6:04
Speaker 6: in my dad's case, uh it was it's still it
6:07
Speaker 6: was never a solve murder. But in my mom's case, uh,
6:11
Speaker 6: you know, they they they apprehended someone shortly after and uh,
6:15
Speaker 6: you know, we went through the trial and everything, and
6:17
Speaker 6: you know, he received the sentence and then there was
6:20
Speaker 6: a mistrial of it all, and he was we had
6:22
Speaker 6: to sit through it again. So I sat through actually
6:24
Speaker 6: through my mother's murder trial twice, you know. And but
6:28
Speaker 6: in that, you know, once it, once it was done,
6:31
Speaker 6: it was something that I had to let go of,
6:33
Speaker 6: you know what I mean, in order for me to
6:34
Speaker 6: be able to move forward.
6:35
Speaker 3: So and you still had love for for filling regardless
6:38
Speaker 3: of everything that happened.
6:39
Speaker 1: Yeah, that gotta be tough.
6:40
Speaker 6: To absolutely, Yeah, yeah, I have. I absolutely have love,
6:44
Speaker 6: you know, for for Philadelphia. That's that's the place that
6:46
Speaker 6: made me. But you know, it's also it's one of
6:48
Speaker 6: those you know, it could make you, it could break you,
6:50
Speaker 6: you know what I mean. And it's the city of
6:51
Speaker 6: brotherly love. That love has always been a tough love.
6:55
Speaker 2: You know.
6:56
Speaker 4: Is there anything you learned about, uh, your parents in
7:00
Speaker 4: this book that you previously didn't know, especially your father.
7:03
Speaker 6: There's not much that I really learned about my father
7:06
Speaker 6: that you know, hadn't already been told to me. But
7:10
Speaker 6: one thing that I really had to deal with in
7:12
Speaker 6: writing this book was I had to, you know, just
7:15
Speaker 6: sit with the level of grace.
7:16
Speaker 2: That my mother had extended to me as a young person.
7:19
Speaker 6: I burned the house down at the age of six,
7:21
Speaker 6: which is sort of way the book begins. And you know,
7:24
Speaker 6: I just knew I was in for it. I thought
7:26
Speaker 6: I was in trouble and you know what I mean,
7:29
Speaker 6: just guilt and you know, all those feelings were sort
7:31
Speaker 6: of you know, bubbling, uh, you know, like running through
7:35
Speaker 6: my body.
7:35
Speaker 2: And my mom came home.
7:37
Speaker 6: Obviously, my only concern was, you know, safe, everybody was safe, right,
7:41
Speaker 6: and yeah, just you know, the grace that she extended
7:44
Speaker 6: at that time, and it was just really surprising, you
7:47
Speaker 6: know what I mean, And it was a beautiful thing,
7:49
Speaker 6: and it just gave me a different sort of insight
7:51
Speaker 6: into who she was and in retrospect, you know what
7:54
Speaker 6: I mean now, you know, as an adult, just to
7:56
Speaker 6: go back and relive it. Yeah, it just gave me
7:58
Speaker 6: different take on my mother as a person, you.
8:01
Speaker 4: Know, and you understood and the magnitude of what happened
8:03
Speaker 4: at the age of six, I don't.
8:06
Speaker 6: I don't know that I really understood the magnitude the
8:07
Speaker 6: way I knew I'd done something that you know, I mean,
8:12
Speaker 6: there was no turning back from you know what I'm saying.
8:14
Speaker 6: It was something that I couldn't undo. And uh and
8:17
Speaker 6: it felt, you know, super serious. But I think in
8:19
Speaker 6: that moment, I just shut down, like that was my
8:22
Speaker 6: you know, my my knee jerk response, my my reflex
8:25
Speaker 6: was I just shut down, and you know, I just
8:28
Speaker 6: I walked down the stairs like there wasn't a fires,
8:31
Speaker 6: you know.
8:33
Speaker 2: And yeah, I guess it gives.
8:34
Speaker 6: You a different insight too, into your children, right yeah, yeah, yeah.
8:39
Speaker 1: So how do you do you give that grace to
8:41
Speaker 1: your kids?
8:41
Speaker 3: Because you know, as as a parent, you know a
8:43
Speaker 3: lot of times when your kids do something, the first
8:45
Speaker 3: reactor is to get mad, to get upset, and.
8:47
Speaker 1: You want to scold them so they don't do it again.
8:49
Speaker 3: But you got to go back to when you were
8:50
Speaker 3: six and you did something way worse than I'm sure
8:53
Speaker 3: any of your kids have ever done.
8:54
Speaker 1: So how does that affect how you parents your kids?
8:57
Speaker 2: It absolutely does.
8:59
Speaker 6: And you know it's something that I just have to
9:00
Speaker 6: remain mindful of, you know, because in the moment, it's
9:03
Speaker 6: not easy, you know what I'm saying. I remember a
9:04
Speaker 6: couple of years ago, Uh, my son, he he did
9:08
Speaker 6: something like where I think he left the water running
9:12
Speaker 6: like for a long time up in one of the bathrooms,
9:14
Speaker 6: long story short hole, like the ceiling of a whole
9:18
Speaker 6: room in my house wound up falling through, you know
9:21
Speaker 6: when it was tens of thousands of dollars in damage
9:26
Speaker 6: and you know, long insurance claim and you know we
9:29
Speaker 6: were jacked up for a long time because of it.
9:32
Speaker 6: But yeah, you know, in that moment, it's like, Yo,
9:34
Speaker 6: that's when I have to you know, be mindful of
9:36
Speaker 6: of that grace. But you know, I definitely I got
9:38
Speaker 6: to catch myself because you know, I'm also a disciplinarian,
9:42
Speaker 6: you know, So.
9:44
Speaker 4: Are you a disciplinarian like your like like the older
9:48
Speaker 4: people that raised us, Because I always wondered there was
9:51
Speaker 4: a fine line for what we received is yes, Yeah,
9:54
Speaker 4: between discipline seventy something.
9:59
Speaker 6: It's it's a delicate balance, you know what I'm saying.
10:02
Speaker 6: I've definitely and you know, I think maybe not if
10:06
Speaker 6: I've never been team spare the Rod, you know what
10:09
Speaker 6: I'm saying. But I'm more lenient now and more, you know,
10:14
Speaker 6: I extend more grace now.
10:16
Speaker 2: I'm more forgiving now, you know than ever.
10:20
Speaker 4: You know what made you feel like now is the
10:22
Speaker 4: time to write a memoir? When somebody approaches you and
10:24
Speaker 4: it says, hey, we'd love for you to write a memoir.
10:27
Speaker 4: You know, you got to open up and really revealed
10:29
Speaker 4: things you probably never revealed.
10:30
Speaker 5: What made you want to do it now?
10:32
Speaker 6: Just because you know, I was, I was excited for
10:35
Speaker 6: that in the process, right, I was excited to you know,
10:39
Speaker 6: like what that experience might hold for me. You know
10:41
Speaker 6: what I'm saying, just being open, accessible and vulnerable in
10:45
Speaker 6: a way that I hadn't before in my art. You know,
10:48
Speaker 6: hip hop is founded upon so much you know, my
10:53
Speaker 6: cheese mo and braggedocio and you know, just larger than
10:57
Speaker 6: life win.
10:58
Speaker 2: It takes all. Yeah, you know that.
11:01
Speaker 6: Sometimes it gets exhausting, you know what I mean when
11:05
Speaker 6: when you've done that, when you've had to put up
11:07
Speaker 6: you know, such a you know, like a one dimensional
11:11
Speaker 6: perspective of of of of yourself and of your art
11:14
Speaker 6: and of your identity.
11:16
Speaker 2: Uh, you know, for such a long time.
11:17
Speaker 6: Sometimes it's uh you know, I mean they say that
11:19
Speaker 6: about people who lie, right, You tell a lie for
11:22
Speaker 6: a long time and then it's like you know, when
11:24
Speaker 6: when when.
11:25
Speaker 2: The truth shall set you free? Right?
11:27
Speaker 6: So this is this is that sort of sort of
11:29
Speaker 6: thing playing out for me, and uh, I would meet
11:32
Speaker 6: fans who've been rocking with me for such a long time,
11:34
Speaker 6: and they would say, you know, for all the roots
11:36
Speaker 6: music that you know I've acquired and all your lyrics,
11:39
Speaker 6: I know, front to back, I still feel as though
11:42
Speaker 6: I don't know, you know, black thoughter, I don't know
11:44
Speaker 6: to try to as a person, and that that's always
11:48
Speaker 6: been by design, just because of you know, my introversion.
11:51
Speaker 6: So I felt like at this stage of my career,
11:54
Speaker 6: you know, you know, and act three of of whatever
11:57
Speaker 6: it is that that I'm doing as a creative. You know,
12:00
Speaker 6: I'm saying I've passed that threshold of fifty years, you know,
12:03
Speaker 6: so this is the only place sort of left to
12:06
Speaker 6: go is within myself as an artist.
12:08
Speaker 2: So this is sort of the final frontier.
12:10
Speaker 6: And it's something I've always held near and there because
12:13
Speaker 6: I'm so private, you know. So I've I've been you know,
12:16
Speaker 6: really possessive in private with my story. But I feel
12:20
Speaker 6: like now at this point in time, and you know,
12:23
Speaker 6: just with as many people who have followed me and
12:25
Speaker 6: who look up to me and you know, the idea
12:28
Speaker 6: of being a role model of it all, I think
12:31
Speaker 6: this is the time in which it would it would
12:33
Speaker 6: be you know, of of the most value and serve
12:36
Speaker 6: the most people.
12:37
Speaker 5: So as an artist, the memoir unlocks something that music have.
12:41
Speaker 2: Yeah, it has for me.
12:43
Speaker 6: It has for me, you know, I've been able to
12:45
Speaker 6: just tap into you know, telling my story in a
12:48
Speaker 6: different way.
12:49
Speaker 3: Now you talk about, you know, when you were a
12:51
Speaker 3: team getting in trouble for graffiti, and yeah, get in
12:54
Speaker 3: trouble for selling drugs, and then they shipped you, like
12:56
Speaker 3: what most black families do if they can't control you,
12:58
Speaker 3: they ship into another family. So they dropped you in Detroit. Yeah,
13:02
Speaker 3: and during that time, Detroit was just as bad as
13:04
Speaker 3: as Philly. So so how did Detroit fix things if
13:07
Speaker 3: it did, or did it make it worse?
13:09
Speaker 6: You know, for me, it's always been about perspective. So
13:12
Speaker 6: one of the ways in which you know Detroit was
13:14
Speaker 6: beneficial for me was it wasn't Philly, you know, even
13:19
Speaker 6: though it was a lot of the same stuff taking place,
13:21
Speaker 6: and you know, it was you know, murder capital, you
13:24
Speaker 6: know at one point, and yeah, everything that was happening
13:27
Speaker 6: in Philly in the eighties was happening in Detroit, you
13:30
Speaker 6: know what I'm saying.
13:30
Speaker 2: And to some.
13:32
Speaker 6: Degrees, you know, it was worse. But you know, my
13:35
Speaker 6: uncle was you know, he was doing well for himself.
13:38
Speaker 6: He was sort of you know, the Uncle Phil of
13:40
Speaker 6: it all. So for me coming from where I came
13:42
Speaker 6: from and the place in Detroit where I got to stay,
13:45
Speaker 6: it was on the outskirts, it was in the suburbs,
13:48
Speaker 6: it was you know, right next door to where Diana
13:50
Speaker 6: Ross's dad live. So I felt like I was a
13:52
Speaker 6: fresh prince moving on up.
13:54
Speaker 2: Yeah.
13:54
Speaker 6: So for me, you know, even though it was short lived,
13:56
Speaker 6: just that glimpse of you know, upper mobility, you know
13:59
Speaker 6: what I'm saying, it was a different type of fuel
14:02
Speaker 6: to the flame.
14:02
Speaker 1: It showed you that it was possible.
14:04
Speaker 2: It was possible.
14:05
Speaker 6: Yeah, and you know when Question and I was still
14:06
Speaker 6: together like throughout that whole thing. So it was a
14:09
Speaker 6: different motivation for me to get back to, you know
14:12
Speaker 6: what I'm saying, what I had left and what we
14:14
Speaker 6: had already started working on Motown.
14:16
Speaker 5: Any influence like being close to.
14:18
Speaker 6: That, you know, I think it's a It's it's more
14:22
Speaker 6: the remnants of the Motown energy, like that work ethic
14:25
Speaker 6: of it all, the assembly line of it all. You
14:29
Speaker 6: know that that was just it's I mean, it's still
14:31
Speaker 6: part of Detroit is woven into the fabric of the
14:34
Speaker 6: people there, and it's I think that's one of the
14:36
Speaker 6: things that makes you know, cities like Detroit, Chicago, Oakland.
14:41
Speaker 6: You know what I'm saying, these are sister cities, brother
14:44
Speaker 6: brother cities to uh to Affilly in that way.
14:46
Speaker 5: I love this line.
14:48
Speaker 4: Our lives are our response to the call of our childhoods.
14:51
Speaker 5: Yeah, what does that line mean to you?
14:53
Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean, you know, it's it's about having having
14:56
Speaker 2: to go through it to get to it, you know
14:58
Speaker 2: what I'm saying.
14:58
Speaker 4: Essentially, while we always got to go through it, while
15:01
Speaker 4: black people got to go we're.
15:03
Speaker 2: Not the only ones that gotta go through you know.
15:04
Speaker 6: Yeah, we're not the only ones that gotta go through it.
15:06
Speaker 6: But yeah, I think that's that's that's that's what it
15:09
Speaker 6: speaks to.
15:10
Speaker 2: You know.
15:10
Speaker 6: It's about a wisdom that you know you can only
15:14
Speaker 6: arrive at, you know what I mean. It's about a
15:16
Speaker 6: journey to that wisdom, and sometimes it's about being wise
15:20
Speaker 6: enough to realize that, uh, you know, the journey is
15:22
Speaker 6: just gonna take you back to where you begin.
15:24
Speaker 4: I love reading memoirs now because I love to hear
15:26
Speaker 4: how people, you know, cope with you know, their inner.
15:29
Speaker 5: Child, because I do not know why.
15:31
Speaker 4: The older you get, it feels like you're in a
15:33
Speaker 4: child is crying out for more and more help. And
15:36
Speaker 4: especially when you do start doing the work, when you
15:38
Speaker 4: do start going to therapy, sitting with spiritual leaders, you know,
15:42
Speaker 4: dealing with plants, whatever it is, it's like you're in
15:45
Speaker 4: a child to start screaming out for help.
15:47
Speaker 6: Well, they talk about our emotional response to just things
15:50
Speaker 6: in the world and how, you know, the way we
15:54
Speaker 6: respond to things, you know, is something that we usually
15:57
Speaker 6: developed before the age of seven or eight, you know
16:00
Speaker 6: what I mean. So's it requires a conscious effort, you
16:04
Speaker 6: know what I mean, in order to to train your body,
16:06
Speaker 6: to condition yourself to to respond to the world, to
16:09
Speaker 6: respond to any sort of stimuli in a different way
16:12
Speaker 6: than you would as a child, you know what I mean.
16:15
Speaker 6: So that's what they call, you know, the work. So
16:17
Speaker 6: this is this is part of that. This is uh,
16:19
Speaker 6: this is me doing doing my work to work through
16:21
Speaker 6: my ship. And it's and it's the beginning of it.
16:23
Speaker 6: This book is only you know, this is UH, this
16:25
Speaker 6: is me as a young person.
16:26
Speaker 2: It's ah. By the by the end of the book,
16:29
Speaker 2: I think I'm still I'm in high school.
16:31
Speaker 3: You know, I was gonna ask with the Roots when
16:34
Speaker 3: you guys created the Roots, when did y'all start making money?
16:36
Speaker 3: And the reason I asked is because it was new,
16:38
Speaker 3: Like when when when the Roots came out, it was
16:40
Speaker 3: something that hip hop hasn't seen on that platform or
16:43
Speaker 3: respected on that platform. So when did the Roots finally
16:45
Speaker 3: break through? And was like, nah, this is hip hop's bad?
16:49
Speaker 6: I want to say around you know, two thousand.
16:52
Speaker 1: And six, and who was the characters during that time?
16:56
Speaker 6: It was you know, me quest Comar hover it on bass,
17:02
Speaker 6: I want to say, Frank Knuckles was playing percussion and
17:06
Speaker 6: Kirk Captain Kirk went on guitar. You know that was
17:09
Speaker 6: that was sort of the crew. And also around that time,
17:12
Speaker 6: you know, Cody chessing Ut was a reoccurring you know,
17:16
Speaker 6: basically a member of the Roots. When he decided, you know,
17:19
Speaker 6: to make a move and you know, stop touring with us,
17:22
Speaker 6: he uh essentially replaced himself with my with my brother
17:26
Speaker 6: Martin Luther. So we've always had you know, someone you know,
17:30
Speaker 6: just like a singer since the early two thousands associated
17:33
Speaker 6: with with with with the group.
17:35
Speaker 3: Was it hard to always you know, break into a
17:37
Speaker 3: market sell it to a promoter because I just remember
17:40
Speaker 3: the routs so early on and just like this is
17:42
Speaker 3: just so different, and sometimes a hip hop different, it
17:45
Speaker 3: is hard to break through.
17:46
Speaker 2: It was very hard for us.
17:47
Speaker 6: It was, you know, super difficult to because we didn't
17:52
Speaker 6: really look or sound or feel like anything anything else
17:55
Speaker 6: that was that was happening. So it was a lot
17:57
Speaker 6: of uh, you know, we always had to prove ourselves
18:00
Speaker 6: right and and you know, I mean it took so
18:03
Speaker 6: long for us to even break even financially, and that's
18:08
Speaker 6: something that just came over time. Uh, you know, just
18:11
Speaker 6: paying those dues on the road, you know what I'm saying,
18:13
Speaker 6: Like you start at one point touring and then you're
18:15
Speaker 6: able to sort of get your stock up just through
18:18
Speaker 6: when you keep coming back.
18:19
Speaker 2: You know what I mean.
18:20
Speaker 6: So we were able to sort of build on on
18:22
Speaker 6: on that relevance and it was wild. It was like
18:24
Speaker 6: when we finally hit a point, you know, six o seven,
18:28
Speaker 6: you know where we felt like, yeah, you know, all
18:30
Speaker 6: these years of two hundred plus days on the road
18:33
Speaker 6: started to pay off. That's when you know, there was
18:36
Speaker 6: a whole seismic shift in the way people started to
18:39
Speaker 6: receive you know, people were receiving music and you know,
18:42
Speaker 6: concert tickets and all that thing. It was, you know,
18:45
Speaker 6: we went through a revolution with the you know, streaming
18:48
Speaker 6: and that whole thing. So and then that's when the
18:51
Speaker 6: Tonight Show opportunity presented itself and that's what made it
18:53
Speaker 6: make sense. It was like, you know, we had just
18:56
Speaker 6: reached finally reached the we hit a stride and and
18:59
Speaker 6: everything was changed engine you know. So yeah, that that
19:01
Speaker 6: in that uncertainty, uh you know, the the consistency of
19:06
Speaker 6: the day job in that platform that it would it
19:09
Speaker 6: would represent.
19:10
Speaker 5: You know, it looked really good. Was there a particular moment?
19:13
Speaker 2: Was it?
19:13
Speaker 5: Was it a jay Z using y'all a lot or like,
19:16
Speaker 5: was it a particular moment that caused that shift?
19:21
Speaker 2: You know when we started to make some bread, Yeah, I.
19:24
Speaker 4: Mean get recognized by enough to where the Tonight Show
19:27
Speaker 4: was like yo, I want that.
19:29
Speaker 2: Well, you know, yeah, I think it was just over time, man.
19:31
Speaker 6: You know, we you know, we've been around for I
19:35
Speaker 6: mean blessed enough to have been around for such a
19:38
Speaker 6: long time that you know. A good example is, you
19:40
Speaker 6: know there's a festival that takes place in in in
19:45
Speaker 6: uh in Denmark, in Copenhagen, every year. It's called Ross Guild.
19:50
Speaker 6: And uh, you know, we started playing at Ross Guild
19:53
Speaker 6: before we were even you know, allowed on the actual
19:55
Speaker 6: festival grounds. Like we were you know, two tenths you know,
19:58
Speaker 6: out on the main trip right and you know, we
20:01
Speaker 6: we worked our way up from you know the outskirts
20:05
Speaker 6: to the tenth you know, right on the borderline to
20:07
Speaker 6: you know, you know, third and fourth stages until we came.
20:12
Speaker 2: Back and we were able to headline, you know, with
20:14
Speaker 2: it was the Roots and Bruce Springsteen co.
20:17
Speaker 6: Headline, so you know, but yeah, that was over you
20:20
Speaker 6: know what I'm saying many years and it's like Roskild
20:23
Speaker 6: isn't like we've done that around the world, you know
20:26
Speaker 6: what I mean, just because we've been able to keep
20:28
Speaker 6: up appearances. So yeah, yeah, I guess we just paid
20:31
Speaker 6: our dues, you know, paid our dues and yeah, and
20:35
Speaker 6: then once we got you know, we got into Late
20:37
Speaker 6: Night and we started doing that thing. It definitely represented
20:40
Speaker 6: a change in our career where we haven't been able
20:42
Speaker 6: to tour in that same way. So yeah, everything that
20:45
Speaker 6: we had done up until that point, it's just been
20:48
Speaker 6: a blessing. And it's is sort of thing where we
20:50
Speaker 6: probably had taken it for granted, we'd be able to
20:52
Speaker 6: do it forever.
20:53
Speaker 2: But you know, here we.
20:54
Speaker 6: Are and now, yeah, it's uh, it's just more of
20:57
Speaker 6: a blessing and just a greater opportunity when we do
20:59
Speaker 6: get to go out and and still touch the fans
21:02
Speaker 6: in that way.
21:03
Speaker 4: Now, Now, when you decided to write about the altercation,
21:06
Speaker 4: you had request love. Yeah, back back in the nineties.
21:09
Speaker 4: You have to ask him if you could speak on that.
21:11
Speaker 6: No, I didn't have to ask him because he's written
21:13
Speaker 6: about it in one of his books, and it's the
21:16
Speaker 6: sort of thing that you know, like, that's my brother,
21:18
Speaker 6: So I mean, I know if it's good or not,
21:20
Speaker 6: you know, yeah, yeah.
21:21
Speaker 5: And also that's it's like to me, those are best relationships.
21:25
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, if you can have, if you can fight
21:27
Speaker 4: and then get over it, yeah, hey man.
21:29
Speaker 6: Yeah, absolutely, And you know, it really takes it takes
21:33
Speaker 6: it takes love for somebody to get you that upset, right,
21:37
Speaker 6: you know what I mean, Only my my loved ones
21:39
Speaker 6: have ever really been able to get me that ribbed up, right,
21:42
Speaker 6: So it's it's this there's something in that. But yeah,
21:45
Speaker 6: you know, I was we were all kids at that point,
21:48
Speaker 6: you know. Now, now I'm an adult, so I would
21:50
Speaker 6: I would I would have dealt with that situation a
21:52
Speaker 6: completely different way.
21:52
Speaker 1: How long did y'all not speak?
21:54
Speaker 6: I mean we lived together, maybe we didn't speak for
21:57
Speaker 6: the train ride home, but it's like once.
21:59
Speaker 1: We got back, right, And how was that I had
22:04
Speaker 1: to be uncomfortable? Awkward?
22:05
Speaker 6: Like, bro, yeah it was. It was definitely, you know,
22:08
Speaker 6: it was awkward. It was uncomfortable.
22:10
Speaker 2: You know.
22:10
Speaker 6: It's the sort of thing that I would laugh about
22:14
Speaker 6: almost most immediately, Like that's just where I come from.
22:17
Speaker 6: You know what I'm saying. You get into a little thing,
22:19
Speaker 6: you know, we settle it and then it's funny. But yeah,
22:22
Speaker 6: in our man's case, it just wasn't you know what
22:24
Speaker 6: I'm saying. You're like, nah, it wasn't funny, Like yeah,
22:30
Speaker 6: but yeah, we were able to, you know, obviously move
22:32
Speaker 6: past it, and I think, yeah, we're strong before it.
22:35
Speaker 2: People asked me about, you.
22:36
Speaker 6: Know, how we remained together and work together and you know,
22:40
Speaker 6: been business partners on so many different levels for such
22:43
Speaker 6: a long time, and I think, you know, it's because
22:45
Speaker 6: we got shipped like that out of the way, you know,
22:47
Speaker 6: like early on, and we able to you know, just
22:49
Speaker 6: focus on the art and the business, you know, for
22:52
Speaker 6: for many years.
22:53
Speaker 4: Chapter twelve doing the work. What kind of work do
22:57
Speaker 4: we need to do to find out who we really are?
22:59
Speaker 4: Like what worked for for black Thought?
23:01
Speaker 6: I think, you know it's it's confronting. It's confronting you know,
23:05
Speaker 6: our demons, you know it head on. And this, like
23:09
Speaker 6: I said, this is this represents the beginning of me,
23:12
Speaker 6: you know, doing doing a lot of that work. But yeah,
23:15
Speaker 6: it's still you know, very very far more to go.
23:18
Speaker 5: Was it therapy? Was it?
23:20
Speaker 2: Yeah?
23:20
Speaker 6: That's part of it, you know what I'm saying. Definitely, Uh,
23:23
Speaker 6: you know, couple's therapy, Uh, you know, therapy you know
23:27
Speaker 6: for myself, therapy for my children. You know, these are
23:31
Speaker 6: the sort of things, These are the sort of tools
23:33
Speaker 6: that are at our disposal to embrace. And you know,
23:38
Speaker 6: when it's good, it's great, you know what I'm saying.
23:40
Speaker 6: So I try to utilize all that.
23:41
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, I'm a big performing in therapy.
23:43
Speaker 2: Absolutely.
23:44
Speaker 1: Is there anything you left?
23:45
Speaker 6: Meditation? Meditation, medication? Yeah, yeah, meditation is huge.
23:48
Speaker 1: How did you learn how to meditate?
23:49
Speaker 3: And the reason I say that is a lot of
23:50
Speaker 3: people don't know how when they try they close the
23:53
Speaker 3: rise and they can't get to that place just.
23:55
Speaker 6: Just over time, over time, you know, it was something
23:58
Speaker 6: that now I started meditating. I started taking you know,
24:03
Speaker 6: fifteen twenty twenty five minutes at the beginning of the day,
24:06
Speaker 6: at the end of the day to just sit and
24:07
Speaker 6: you know, just be at peace, to be silent and
24:10
Speaker 6: just try and you know, quiet my mind. And yeah,
24:12
Speaker 6: then I started reading some books and I got into
24:15
Speaker 6: this guy, doctor Joe Despenser. He wrote a book called
24:19
Speaker 6: Becoming Supernatural. I got up on his stuff, and he's
24:23
Speaker 6: a unique individual, just because of his tone of voice,
24:26
Speaker 6: you know what I mean, the way he leads a meditation.
24:28
Speaker 2: His voice is really it's just wild, you know what
24:30
Speaker 2: I mean. He sounds like it's just some you know,
24:33
Speaker 2: it's like some freak shit, you know.
24:34
Speaker 6: But once you're able to like move past that and
24:37
Speaker 6: you can get over the way his voice sounds, and
24:40
Speaker 6: you you know, you're comfortable within yourself, you start to
24:43
Speaker 6: you know, see and feel results, and then you start
24:46
Speaker 6: to meet people and it's like, yo, it's so like
24:47
Speaker 6: I could feel that there's been a seismic shift in
24:50
Speaker 6: your life. And you ask what they're doing, and it's like, oh,
24:52
Speaker 6: I'm doing the same shit, you know what I mean. Like,
24:54
Speaker 6: I started to meet people who call itself putting me
24:57
Speaker 6: on to the meditations that I was already doing. But they,
25:00
Speaker 6: you know, they may have been further along in the practice.
25:02
Speaker 6: And it gave me, you know, hope. It gave me,
25:05
Speaker 6: you know, just that that reassurance that once you get
25:08
Speaker 6: over a hump, you can hit a stride and uh
25:11
Speaker 6: yeah it really works.
25:13
Speaker 2: Man.
25:13
Speaker 5: You got your mantra, you count your beads.
25:15
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, well, you know, I mean, you do whatever
25:18
Speaker 2: you need to do.
25:18
Speaker 6: If it's bees, if it's a mantra, if it's you know,
25:21
Speaker 6: just sitting in silence, if it's you know, if it's
25:23
Speaker 6: related to you know, the light or the lack there, well,
25:26
Speaker 6: whatever you need to do, you just got to do it.
25:28
Speaker 6: I think, you know, it's something different for everyone else.
25:30
Speaker 6: Every individual person, uh, you know, has something specific that
25:34
Speaker 6: they can latch onto to deepen and strengthen their own
25:37
Speaker 6: personal practice.
25:38
Speaker 2: Yah.
25:38
Speaker 5: It started me.
25:39
Speaker 4: My good sister Debbie Brown, she got me started on
25:41
Speaker 4: counting the bees, chanting my mantra. So now I'm at
25:44
Speaker 4: the point where I can just chant my mantra.
25:46
Speaker 6: Yeah and get there count exactly yeah, yeah, you know,
25:50
Speaker 6: and that's that's that's when you hit that, that's that's
25:52
Speaker 6: that transcendental, you know what I mean of it all.
25:55
Speaker 5: Could you be Black Thought without being from Philly?
25:59
Speaker 2: No, I don't think so. I don't think so. Yeah.
26:01
Speaker 6: I think, you know, so much of of of who
26:03
Speaker 6: I am, you know, so much of my identity is
26:08
Speaker 6: associated with my my philadelphianness, you know. Yeah, and it's
26:14
Speaker 6: the sort of place that I had to grow up,
26:17
Speaker 6: you know, Black Thought. I couldn't I couldn't have been
26:20
Speaker 6: Black Thought if I haven't hadn't been working, you know,
26:22
Speaker 6: as long as I have, and you know, I got
26:25
Speaker 6: a job in second grade that was a you know,
26:28
Speaker 6: that was a very Philadelphian thing, right, Yeah.
26:31
Speaker 2: So I don't think.
26:32
Speaker 6: I don't think the balance of you know, the love,
26:36
Speaker 6: but that tough love, I don't think I would have
26:38
Speaker 6: been able to receive that, you know, from any other community.
26:41
Speaker 5: And the name black Thought, where exactly did that derive from?
26:46
Speaker 6: It derived from you know, my my, my time as
26:51
Speaker 6: a visual artist and you know.
26:53
Speaker 2: Just dealing with paints and you know, just the color palette.
26:58
Speaker 6: I realized that you know, so much more whin into
27:01
Speaker 6: you know, arriving at the color black, you know what
27:03
Speaker 6: I mean. Then then one would think there's so many
27:06
Speaker 6: different nuances and colors, other colors that go into you know,
27:09
Speaker 6: arriving at the color black. So that's sort of what
27:12
Speaker 6: it would have began as and over time it's it's
27:15
Speaker 6: evolved into something, you know, that has taken far, far
27:20
Speaker 6: greater meaning you know, both I guess to me and
27:23
Speaker 6: and to you know.
27:24
Speaker 2: To people who who support me.
27:25
Speaker 6: So yeah, at the time, I didn't think, you know,
27:29
Speaker 6: I wasn't thinking of black thought as the concept of people,
27:33
Speaker 6: you know what I'm saying, But that's sort of what
27:35
Speaker 6: what has come to mean.
27:36
Speaker 3: Absolutely, Yeah, I wanted to ask, and I know it's
27:38
Speaker 3: it's it's a question that people ask all the time,
27:40
Speaker 3: what's your what's your thought process on artists.
27:42
Speaker 1: Now and music now?
27:43
Speaker 3: The reason I ask is, you know, growing up, there
27:45
Speaker 3: were so many outlets for different types of music.
27:47
Speaker 2: Right.
27:48
Speaker 3: You would hear Tribe on the radio, you would hear
27:50
Speaker 3: Most Death on the radio. You would hear Kanye, you
27:53
Speaker 3: would hear the Roots, you would hear COmON. But you
27:55
Speaker 3: would hear your Jay, you would hear your Cube, you
27:57
Speaker 3: would hear the different elements of music. Yeah, I don't
28:00
Speaker 3: think you hear that. Now, do you think that side
28:02
Speaker 3: is not being represented or just musicians are not being heard?
28:06
Speaker 6: I think I think it's being I think that side,
28:08
Speaker 6: I think the diversity of it all is being represented.
28:11
Speaker 6: But I don't think that platform is radio, you.
28:15
Speaker 2: Know what I mean. So I think it's being represented,
28:16
Speaker 2: you know.
28:17
Speaker 6: Just across different platforms, and it's about tapping into those, uh,
28:21
Speaker 6: you know, I think they're more outlets, more avenues now
28:24
Speaker 6: than ever for an artist to sort of emerge without
28:29
Speaker 6: being taken advantage of, without having to sell and soul
28:31
Speaker 6: without having to compromise as much as we did, you know,
28:35
Speaker 6: like for the deal, for the bag, for the exposure.
28:38
Speaker 6: So yeah, it's it's just about you know, tapping into those,
28:40
Speaker 6: into those avenues. But yeah, I think there's more there's
28:43
Speaker 6: more space now, you know, in the in the culture,
28:46
Speaker 6: like the hip hop landscape, for for the just a
28:51
Speaker 6: broad range of influences to coexist. I think, like more
28:55
Speaker 6: so now than ever, you know. So yeah, I don't
28:59
Speaker 6: think I mean now I don't love all the music
29:02
Speaker 6: that all the hip hop music that comes out, but
29:04
Speaker 6: I think, you know, I like that that's it's all good, right,
29:07
Speaker 6: that's cool, Like I'll allow it, you know, And I
29:10
Speaker 6: think back like when if I ever really rock with
29:13
Speaker 6: every single thing, you know what.
29:14
Speaker 2: Ever, so yeah, I think.
29:16
Speaker 3: It just gave artist a chance to be a little
29:18
Speaker 3: a little more commercial, right. I just remember as a
29:20
Speaker 3: kid or even an adult, you grew up listening to
29:23
Speaker 3: the radio.
29:23
Speaker 1: Think about it. You would hear Public Enemy on the radio. Yeah,
29:25
Speaker 1: you would hear tribal.
29:29
Speaker 2: Poking.
29:30
Speaker 3: Me was in rotation, comment was in rotation, trib court
29:34
Speaker 3: quest was definitely in rotation. So you would hear those
29:36
Speaker 3: type music. But you would hear your hoes, you would
29:37
Speaker 3: hear your nahds, you would hear your Biggie, you would
29:39
Speaker 3: hear DMX. It just was an element that I don't
29:42
Speaker 3: necessarily know if it's you know, if it's transcendent now
29:46
Speaker 3: you know.
29:46
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, I don't think it's you know, yeah, the Yeah,
29:49
Speaker 6: the culture is not represented in that way anymore, you
29:52
Speaker 6: know what I mean, definitely not not on radio.
29:54
Speaker 4: Even this conversation is always interested in me because we
29:56
Speaker 4: act like over the last twelve thirteen, all all the
30:01
Speaker 4: top guys ain't on ain't on that hardcore right right,
30:04
Speaker 4: and not the Drakes, the Kendricks, the Colds like you
30:07
Speaker 4: had chances in there, you've had the Wilets, the big Shot.
30:11
Speaker 5: They're not even on that. So it's just like when
30:13
Speaker 5: people talk about how.
30:14
Speaker 1: Bad the culture is bad, like who are you all.
30:18
Speaker 5: Paying attention to?
30:19
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's it's just different. It's different, you know what
30:21
Speaker 6: I mean, whether you think it's bad or not.
30:24
Speaker 4: You know, well man, black thoughts book man, that's right
30:28
Speaker 4: cycled self cycled selves.
30:30
Speaker 3: Yes, we appreciate you for jordan Us. What do you
30:32
Speaker 3: want people to get out of this book? If they
30:33
Speaker 3: if they can get one thing out of it, what
30:34
Speaker 3: do you want them to get out of this?
30:36
Speaker 6: You know, if if if one person is able to
30:38
Speaker 6: see themselves and you know, better understand themselves or better
30:42
Speaker 6: understand you know, their path, their their lived experience, if
30:46
Speaker 6: this is going to be you know, an entree into
30:48
Speaker 6: someone else being able to start to work through their
30:51
Speaker 6: stuff and you know, shed some of those layers of
30:54
Speaker 6: of armor that are no longer useful, you know what
30:57
Speaker 6: I mean, those layers of callous and in scar tissue.
31:01
Speaker 6: Then yeah, it's it's a win. And I've already you know,
31:04
Speaker 6: experienced that, you know, I've already had some of those conversations.
31:08
Speaker 6: So I feel this book has already been helpful.
31:10
Speaker 5: All right, And y'all ain't get nominated for a Grammy
31:12
Speaker 5: this year.
31:13
Speaker 2: I did. I got dominated a couple of days ago. Congratulations.
31:17
Speaker 6: Thought the album Yeah, I know, a capella not even
31:19
Speaker 6: with a beat, wow, just the voice it bars wow?
31:23
Speaker 6: Yeah yeah yeah, love letter to hip hop?
31:26
Speaker 5: How did that feel?
31:27
Speaker 2: It feels awesome.
31:28
Speaker 6: It feels feel awesome like in that moment, I didn't
31:32
Speaker 6: really realize it until you know, my homie started telling
31:34
Speaker 6: me like, yeah, you know, it was wild, like this is,
31:36
Speaker 6: you know, your first Brandy nomination, you know what I mean,
31:39
Speaker 6: like outside of the roots. And then another homie hit
31:42
Speaker 6: me was like, yo, it would be wild if you
31:44
Speaker 6: win this joint like that's the flex.
31:45
Speaker 2: You don't even need music, you know. I sat with it, like.
31:53
Speaker 4: Do you still I don't want to say need it,
31:56
Speaker 4: but do you do you like that type of validation?
31:58
Speaker 2: I do? I do?
31:59
Speaker 6: I still appreciate that that that sort of validation, you
32:03
Speaker 6: know what I mean? That's not you know what I
32:05
Speaker 6: do it for, but it definitely uh yeah, I mean,
32:09
Speaker 6: it feels it's great to be recognized, you know what
32:11
Speaker 6: I mean.
32:12
Speaker 1: So absolutely well, it's black thought. We appreciate you. Pick
32:15
Speaker 1: up his book, The Upcycled Self, and it's The Breakfast Club.
32:18
Speaker 1: Good morning, wake that ass up in the morning.
32:21
Speaker 2: The Breakfast Club