Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Brutal serial rapist hides from justice for decades. CAPTURED thanks to new DNA tool.

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Brutal serial rapist hides from justice for decades. CAPTURED thanks to new DNA tool. · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. May fifth, nineteen ninety two,
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: a fifty two year old Sacramento area woman returns to
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: her home in this Rosemont neighborhood, and as the sun
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: is going down, she walks in her life would never
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: be the same and was almost immediately accosted and assaulted
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: by someone who was lying in wait inside of her residence.
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: For the next over three hours, she was assaulted, sexually assaulted,
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: and various sexual acts were committed against her neighbors. The
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: dude gathered to talk at a house where Wednesday night,
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: a forty four year old woman came home to find
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  Speaker 1: a rapist waiting for her. She was blindfolded, bound and
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: repeatedly raped and beaten for what police say was at
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: least an hour. Suspect physically attacked her, bound her, and
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: sexually assaulted her. In the first two cases, women were
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: raped and tortured with a knife in their own home.
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: In the third case, he reportedly used a stun gun
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: and dragged a college student off and committed quote monstrous crimes.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: How does one man get away with repeated rapes and
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: for years? I Meancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: you for being with us. And could it be true
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: that this rapist a brutal rapist? And I've tried a
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: lot of rape cases. This is a brutal rapist that
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: enjoys torturing his victims. Is it true that evidence indicates
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: he spent years in town there in the bustling city
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: of Sacramento, at Sacramento State University, even working as a
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: part time lecturer on law enforcement. I'm telling you something again,
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: I've tried a lot of rape cases. This guy needs
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  Speaker 1: to rot in hell with me right now, and all
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: star lineup very special guests joining us from Sacramento. The
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: Sacramento District Attorney and Marie Shubert. Also with us, the
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: Sacramento Police Chief, Daniel Hahn, George Skiro DNA expert, Scales
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: Biological Laboratory, Inc. Renowned forensic expert, author of Blood Beneath
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: My Feet on Amazon, Joseph Scott Morgan, judge, trial lawyer,
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: and Ask Wilcott dot Com. Ash Wilcott joining me right now.
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: Crime Online dot Com investigative reporter Dave mac Dave. I
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: know what a rape is all about, as does every
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: woman listening to this story right now. But this isn't
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: just a story. These are real victims that suffered. You know,
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: people say, oh, they'll get closure when the purpose finally arrested.
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: There's no such thing. It affects you the rest of
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  Speaker 1: your life. But just tell me something, Dave Mack. How
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: many rape victims are we talking about that we know of?
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: And how does this guy elude police? I think the
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: key as you said, that we know of because when
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: you look at what we're actually charging them with. Between now,
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: it's between nineteen ninety two and nineteen ninety four. Two
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: of the women were attacked in their homes where he
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: was lying in wait, and the third one was apparently
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: particularly heinous, where he grabs a twenty two year old
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: off a jogging trail, uses a stun gun, and then
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: drags her off and attacks her. So we've got different
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: mos here in the same guy. The one thing we
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: have is the DNA linking him to all three of those.
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: But then you mentioned he actually was a guest lecturer
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: about law enforcement and ended up spending ten years in
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: sacrament minto before he leaves to work in the federal
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: penal system. He was hiding in plain sight, you know.
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: To Sacramento Police Chief Daniel Hahn again, Welcome Daniel and
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: to Attorney Schibert. Daniel, I gotta ask you a question
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: toward the last let me just think maybe seven years
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: that I prosecuted, I began to specially lies and cereal
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: murders and cereal rapes. When you start seeing similarities between
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: rapemo modus operandi method of operation, it's just got to
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: drive you crazy knowing this may be the same guy.
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  Speaker 1: What about when the ms are different and you can't
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: really link them together. Yeah, well, normally we don't see
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: two distinct differences, but this one there was. And this
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: one's also unique in that Amory, when she was a
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: deputy DA and one of our retired detectives now submitted
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: for the first John Doe warrant based on DNA in
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: California back then, and this is the one. So they're
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: the detective. This was one of his only open cases
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: and now it's solved. So there's great work by the
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: detectives and Amory. Take a listen to our Fanbecca Haybecker.
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  Speaker 1: This was one of the three attacks that fifty nine
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  Speaker 1: year old Mark Mantufflo is accused of committing between nineteen
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  Speaker 1: ninety two and ninety four. One woman was raped in
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  Speaker 1: her Sacramento County home. Another woman was attacked on a
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  Speaker 1: jogging path and Davis, and a third woman was raped
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: in her home in Sacramento. All three women survived their attacks.
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  Speaker 1: I can tell you that the victim in the case
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: out of Yolo County has been notified that the man
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  Speaker 1: who did this to her is in custody. She's very happy.
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: At a news conference Monday afternoon, Sacramento area law enforcement
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: explained just how they connected three crime scenes from the
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: early nineties to this guy who was arrested at his
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  Speaker 1: home near Atlanta on Friday. We knew these crimes were
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: all committed by the same suspect because they were linked
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  Speaker 1: by DNA left at each of the three crime scenes.
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  Speaker 1: This is so critical right now, the investigative tool of
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: linking DNA with me Sacramento's District Attorney Anne Marie Sheebert,
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  Speaker 1: District Attorney Shebert, please explain why this is so critical
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  Speaker 1: that this type of genealogical DNA be allowed across the country. Well,
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: there's no question that since the arrest of the Golden
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: State Killer, that this new tool and law enforces using
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: is really changing the world. I mean, it's it's helping
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  Speaker 1: us go back decades. I mean we know from the
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: Golden State Killer it's gone back forty years. We've seen
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  Speaker 1: over sixty cases across the country that in just over
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  Speaker 1: a year where individuals that, as Dave says, they're just
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: living right amongst us have been identified. At least three
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  Speaker 1: cases now have been resolved. That one horrific one was
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: the kidnap, rape, and murder of April Tinsley. But you know,
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  Speaker 1: there's no questions changing the world. It's just it's bringing
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  Speaker 1: people to justice. It's lifting clouds off of individuals who
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  Speaker 1: had been suspected for years where were in fact innocence,
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  Speaker 1: And ultimately it's making our communities safer. And really the
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: most important thing is prosecutors and law enforces. It's giving
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  Speaker 1: hope to victims that they long thought perhaps was had vanished.
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  Speaker 1: So it's a tremendous tool that we're going to continue
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  Speaker 1: to use within our power and do everything we can
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  Speaker 1: to make our community safe. And speaking of April Tinsley,
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: that District Attorney Emory Shebert just brought up Listen to
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  Speaker 1: Kate saw eight year old April Tinsley went missing walking
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  Speaker 1: to a friend's house. Her body was found in a
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  Speaker 1: ditch thirty years. Thirty years as family has waited for answers,
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  Speaker 1: Tinsley's killer taunted detectives with a message scrawled on a barn,
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  Speaker 1: then in two thousand and four, threatening notes found on
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: young girl's bicycles. But after all these years, it only
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: took weeks to solve the case. Using a new cutting
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  Speaker 1: edge DNA analysis, Parabon Labs compared the suspects DNA to
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: a public database of genealogy information results people get from
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  Speaker 1: a test like twenty three and me. They found distant
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  Speaker 1: cousins to build the family tree backward, then looked for
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: descendants and narrowed the search to two brothers. It really
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: had to be one or the other because they were
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  Speaker 1: carrying the right mix of DNA. Investigators collected DNA from
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  Speaker 1: one of the brothers trash and got a match. John
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  Speaker 1: Miller was arrested Sunday. In just three months, Parabon has
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  Speaker 1: identified four other killers and is working forty more cases.
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  Speaker 1: According to April, Tinsley's family allegedly get enclosure as fifty
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  Speaker 1: nine year old perp sentenced to eighty years behind bars.
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  Speaker 1: This is thirty years after he rapes and kills an
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  Speaker 1: eight year old little girl, then taunting cops with condom
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  Speaker 1: clues their words to him burn in hell, you monster.
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: I feel the same way and thank God for this
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  Speaker 1: new tool. Genealogical DNA crime stories with Nancy Grace, eight
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  Speaker 1: year old April Tinsley went missing walking to a friend's house.
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: Her body was found in a ditch. Thirty years thirty years,
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  Speaker 1: this family has waited for answers. Tinsley's killer taunted detectives
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  Speaker 1: with a message squelled on a barn, then in two
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  Speaker 1: thousand and four, threatening notes found on young girls bicycles.
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: But after all these years, it only took weeks to
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: solve the case. Using a new cutting edge DNA analysis,
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: Parabon Labs compared the suspects DNA to a public database
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: of genealogy information results people get from a test like
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: twenty three and me. They found distant cousins to build
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  Speaker 1: the family tree backward, then looked for descendants and narrowed
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: the search to two brothers. It really had to be
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: one or the other because they were carrying the right
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  Speaker 1: mix of DNA. Investigators collected DNA from one of the
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  Speaker 1: brothers trash and got a match. John Miller was arrested Sunday.
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  Speaker 1: In just three months, Parabon has identified four other killers
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  Speaker 1: and is working forty more cases. What a perv. This
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  Speaker 1: guy not only rapes and kills an eight year old girl,
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  Speaker 1: throwing her body into a ditch like she's trash, but
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  Speaker 1: then taunts investigators and cops, leaving condoms rubbers as clue,
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  Speaker 1: taunting notes saying he did the crime. Mother Janet Tinsley
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  Speaker 1: begged prosecutors to seek the death penalty against Miller. The
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  Speaker 1: case goes cold for a long long time, and then finally,
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  Speaker 1: thanks to genealogical DNA, he is behind bars and let
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  Speaker 1: me go to you Special guest George Skiro DNA expert
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  Speaker 1: with Skills Biological Laboratory, Inc. George, I remember the first
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  Speaker 1: time I tried a DNA case. I didn't really even
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  Speaker 1: understand what I was dealing with, but I insisted the
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  Speaker 1: crime lab bring in blowups of what they could see
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  Speaker 1: under the microscope so I could explain it to the jury.
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  Speaker 1: He got up there with all it looked like a
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  Speaker 1: bad film from an old camera that you just unroll.
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  Speaker 1: I looked at it, I looked at the jury, and
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  Speaker 1: I said, why don't you just try to explain it
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  Speaker 1: to us verbally, because unless you are a scientist and
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  Speaker 1: you're looking at this, it just it looks like a
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  Speaker 1: bunch of dots. So explain to me, how do I know.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, the odds are like one in five trillion
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  Speaker 1: that this is the guy. I mean, the odds are incredible.
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  Speaker 1: You're You're dead the water if you get a DNA match.
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  Speaker 1: Explained to me, what geneological DNA is, a white It's
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  Speaker 1: so important, Nancy. Geological DNA is a different type of
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  Speaker 1: DNA than we look at in crime labs and forensic works.
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  Speaker 1: It's actually looking at physical locations on the chromosomes that
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  Speaker 1: are that are very close together, so that when these
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  Speaker 1: are passed down through families, they're linked. So that that's
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: why they can go out so far and look at
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  Speaker 1: these second cousins and third cousins. Then once they get
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  Speaker 1: that DNA match to a potential relative, they can use
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  Speaker 1: conventional genealogical methods to backtrack and look at family trees,
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  Speaker 1: build a family tree to get back to the individual itself.
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  Speaker 1: Then what can be done is once they find that individual,
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  Speaker 1: they can take okay, wait a minute, you know what
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  Speaker 1: I'm drinking out of the fire hisrant right now. It
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  Speaker 1: is just too much, too fast. I'm trying to compare
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  Speaker 1: what you're telling me. You know, Paul holds one of
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  Speaker 1: the detectives on the Golden State killer case. He actually
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  Speaker 1: had to draw a chart for me to understand this,
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  Speaker 1: George Skuiro, because I thought, you know, foolishly that you
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  Speaker 1: have DNA from the murder of the rape and then
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  Speaker 1: through let's just say, one of these genealogical websites where
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  Speaker 1: people trace themselves back to Ireland, okay, where everybody is
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  Speaker 1: from Ireland, and I thought it was just that simple.
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  Speaker 1: It's not. You have to go back generations and generations
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  Speaker 1: and generations, and you take this grandma, this great grandfather,
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  Speaker 1: and you take it all the way down multiple generations
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  Speaker 1: to get a match. Now, can you just explain this
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  Speaker 1: in a nutshell, Squiro, We're not all scientists like you, Okay,
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  Speaker 1: I'm just a j D. Break it down. Well, essentially,
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: it's looking for links between families and then following those links,
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  Speaker 1: following those breadcrumbs till you get to that individual you're
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  Speaker 1: looking for, and then you can take his DNA and
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  Speaker 1: compare it to the forensic DNA sample and see if
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: there's a match, and that's what gives you those huge
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: numbers in terms of making an identification. Dirig attorney from
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  Speaker 1: Sacramento A. Marie Shebert with us DA. Shebert. I don't
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  Speaker 1: understand why there is opposition to genealogical DNAs. Oh, it's
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: just I think there's just you know, some people out
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  Speaker 1: there that privacy individuals. But I think it's important for
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: people to understand is that cops never get their hands
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: on people's DNA and these genealogy sites. It's not like
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: they're out there, you know, collecting somebody's actual profile. And
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: if that's an important message that the public needs to understand,
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: is that they're simply giving a given a list. Like
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: everybody else that decides to go on to one of
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: these sites to find their biological parents or you know,
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: adoptees do this, or individuals that were products of perhaps
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: firm donors, cops are never given than that actual profile.
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: They're simply said, well, you might you might have this relative,
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: second cousin twice removed, and that's what they take. So
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: they're never doing anything with some of these actual profiles.
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  Speaker 1: The profile they have is the bad guys who left
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: it behind. As the crime seats. So that's what's important
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: to remember is that, and it's an incredible tool that
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: law enforcement. You know, we expect our law enforcement to
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: keep us safe. And what we're doing, what people like
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: Chief Han and our sheriff and our law partners are doing,
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: is they are doing everything they can within the balands
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: of the law to make sure that they are identifying
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: and violent criminals. We're not going after people that are
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: breaking into cars. We're simply going after individuals who have
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: committed horrific, horrific crimes. You know, one of the victims
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: that I saw one time on the Golden State Killer said,
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: you know, this wasn't a rape that lasted three hours,
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: it lasted forty two years. So we have to remember
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: that we are balancing privacy versus public safety, and when
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: we're talking about when we're talking about violent criminals, we're
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: doing using the tools that we have within the bounds
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: of the law to bring those people to justice. Joining
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: me forensics expert, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon,
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: professor at Jacksonville State University, Joseph Scott Morgan Just Scott, Okay,
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: let me wrap my mind around this, because I understand DNA.
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: I understand DNA matches, I understand how you get DNA,
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: but on these genealogical websites, in my mind, there's not
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: really a privacy issue because someone somewhere in your family
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: has given a DNA sample, usually through saliva. The Constitution
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: protects you from police banging down your door, no offense,
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: police Chief Daniel on or forcing you to give a confession,
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: all right, But the Constitution does not protect you from
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: somebody and your family or a distant relative from handing
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: over their DNA to a website. Yes, right, Nancy, that
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: that is not the case. You're not protected constitutionally from something,
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: for instance, that a familial connection has done. So that's
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: that's not off limits at this point. I think that
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: echoing what the DA said, I think that there are
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: privacy concerns among certain people because they just don't understand.
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: And one of the things that needs to happen is
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: further education about this, just so that people feel safe,
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: because as you stated, it's confusing. It is. It's just
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: it's confusing. I teach lightly teach DNA to criminal justice students,
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: and still at the end of the day, it's still
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: you know, you'll see big question marks over their heads,
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: you know, wondering, well, how does all of this work?
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: Because the science behind it is highly complex too. Judge
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: Ashley Wilcott joining me. Ashley, here's the bottom line. When
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: Jesscott Morgan says, trying to explain it to people, the
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: defense bar understands full well. They're not idiots, Okay, they
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: understand full well what DNA is, how it works, and
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: how this works genealogical DNA. So what is the possible complaint?
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'm so proud of District Attorney Amory Schubert
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: in Sacramento Police Chief Daniel Han. They've got a violent
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: rapist off the street. You don't like geneological DNA, Fine,
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: you invite him over to your house for Sunday dinner
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: and to spend the night. That'll be a cold day
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: in hell when that happens. Nobody wants them in their neighborhood.
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: But they don't want Amory Schubert and Daniel Han to
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: use geneological DNA. What's the argument, Well, let me start
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: first by saying I completely agree that the interest of
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: the public far outweighs the right to privacy. If Defense
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: wants to argue right to privacy. Now, don't interrupt, because
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: I know you're about to scream there's no privacy. But
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: I think defense attorneys and zealously representing their client. Whether
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: I agree with it or not, there's a constitutional right
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: they have to being represented. They are arguing, listen, they
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: did have a right to privacy because perhaps he did
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: not submit his own DNA, perhaps a different family members
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: submitted their DNA and it led to him, and they're
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: going to argue. And I don't agree with this argument,
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: so don't misunderstand me, listeners, but they are going to
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: try to argue even if he chose to do it,
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: he was doing it to a company to get the
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: results for himself, not for law enforcement to be able
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: to access, and that there does exist a right to privacy.
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: This is a new area of law. Again, I believe
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: they can completely legally be obtained with subpoena like the
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: police have done. However, I think a defense attorney's going
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: to argue, Listen, new area of law. We want courts
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: to rule on this because there is a right to privacy.
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace, Yeah, you're shocked. People who
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: live in this East Sacramento neighborhood where Mark Mantefel lived
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: for more than a decade. Couldn't believe he's being charged
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: in several violent rape cases between nineteen ninety two and
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: nineteen ninety four. Was not in the neighborhood. Yeah, I
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: mean he was a quiet guy, but you know he
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: talked to you. Helpful neighbors say Mantefell helped rewire their home.
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: He also attended sach State, even lectured there in the
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: fall of nineteen ninety three, according to school officials. He
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: also worked in the federal prison system as an administrator,
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: retiring in Florida back in twenty fourteen. But police say
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: he's sexually assaulted three women decades ago. In the first
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: two cases, women were raped and tortured with a knife
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: in their own home. In the third case, he reportedly
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: used a stunt gun and dragged a college student off
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: and committed quote monstrous crimes. Our friend Rachel Wolf at
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: CBS thirteen, you're here, neighbors to Mark Mantifal, reacting reacting
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: to the discovery that he is a brutal rapist. After
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: lecturing on criminal justice and working within the system, the
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: criminal justice system, he moves clear across the country as
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: far away from his crimes as he could get to
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: the other side, to the east coast from the west coast.
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: But DNA manages to track him down. And believe it
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: or not, all of you ladies listening, all of you
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: men listening who have a wife, a daughter, a sister,
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: and of course you had a mother, imagine this guy's
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: foot coming through her kitchen window one night. And now
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: there are opponents to the use of genealogical DNA with
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: me special guests Sacramento Police Chief Daniel Hahn and the
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: elected District Attorney of Sacramento and Marie Shubert. I just
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: I don't get it. I guess I should know by
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: now that a defense attorney is paid and ethically bound
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: to do everything they can under the law to get
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: the client off. But good grief, this guy, I mean,
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: the neighbors thought he was such a nice, quiet guy
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: that blended into the neighborhood. I wonder how many rapes
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: he committed or other crimes he committed where he potentially
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: used a condom or didn't leave DNA to Amrie Schibert,
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: what do you say to your opponents? Well, what I
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: say to the opponents is that we're striking the right balances.
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: You know, our jobs in law enforcement is to protect
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: the community, to bring dresses to victims, and to remove
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: violent predators from our community. And that's exactly what this is.
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: An investigative lead. It's no different than a match off
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: the DNA databank from CODIS. It's giving Chief Han or
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: our law enforcement partners a lead, which then they go
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: out and do their jobs and they identify these individuals.
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: And so when somebody wants to say this is you know,
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: they don't like it, Well, they don't like it because
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: people get caught. And that's the reality. The public overwhelmingly
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: supports us. We know that because studies have been done
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: since the arrest in the Golden State killer were the
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: public ninety percent of the public plus wants us to
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: use it for violent crime. To help us solve missing persons,
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: help us solve crime, evolving children, help take rapists and
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: murders off the street. You know, to you, Ashley Wilcott, judge,
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: trial lawyer, and anchor, I compare this if I were
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: doing an appellate brief on this to the theory of
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: the plain view doctrine. In other words, let's just pretend,
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: Ashley Wilcot, that I walk by your giant, luxurious suv
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: and I look in and I see less seasons marijuana
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: is legal in so many places. Let me just say,
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: a line of coke? All right? I see it's right
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: there on your dashboard. You've been snorting up again at
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: lunchtime in your suv. Ashley. I hate to tell you this,
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: so I catch you. It's in plain view. You left
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: it there. And then your defense is, I didn't do it.
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: My best friend Joe got Morgan dented. That's not gonna work.
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: It's in plain view. It doesn't really matter anymore. It's
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: your car. Long story short, with genealogical DNA the target.
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: This guy Mark Matefeld may say I didn't give my DNA.
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: You didn't have the right to do that. Well, somebody
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: and your family did, and it's out there for me
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: to find in plane view, and you're busted. Tell me
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: what's wrong with that argument, Ashley. I don't think there's
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: anything wrong with that argument, But I want to add
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: something to that. Nancy. Don't forget the judicial system is involved.
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: So it's not as if law enforcement went out and said,
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: half cocked, we're going to get all of these samples
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: of DNA, and we're going to start comparing them. No,
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: they had to go through the judicial process, which again
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: is in place to safeguard constitutional rights. So a judge
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: had to sign a warner, they had to get a
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: subpoena that said they could access this, and so that's
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: another safeguard to ensure they're not just going out and
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: looking and going into homes and pulling information to say,
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: we're going to consider whether these hundred residents did this. Instead,
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: rather they're using the system in place, just like you're
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: saying in plane view, it protects individuals and if you
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: want to engage in criminal activity, there's absolutely a right
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: for a judicial system to be involved to give the
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: right for law enforcement to subpoena or access DNA submitted
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: by choice to a company take a listen to our
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: friends at Fox forty. In nineteen ninety three, around the
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: time of his three allanged rapes, Mantiford was a Sacramento
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: State student and a guest lecturer in criminal justice at
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: the school. His law enforcement career would span more than
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: two decades, working with the Federal Bureau of Prisons in
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: Atlanta and Miami. At one point coming under investigation for
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: accusations he was trying to plant evidence on an inmate.
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: According to court documents, the message should be clear, if
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: you committed a violent crime in this community and you
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: left your DNA, you can expect that we're going to
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: try to solve that crime and bringing to justice. Sacramento
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: County District Attorney Anne Marie Schubert says it took a
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: collaborative effort among sheriffs and police detectives and FBI agents
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: to track Mantifold down like the infamous Easterea rapist case,
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: using DNA technology to match Mantifol's DNA left a crime
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: scenes with that of someone in his family. Treat with me.
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: Sacramento Police Chief Daniel Han. Chief Han question, did he
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: not leave any fingerprints at the crime saying any of
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: his crime scenes because I imagine his prints were taken
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: if he was in the system. Yeah, a lot of
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: these crimes they didn't leave fingerprints because they covered up
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: their faces and also to other things. And I would
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: just say this about the DNA first and foremost, Who
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: wouldn't want this guy off the street. Who wants this
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: guy still out on the street after horrific crimes that
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: he did in people's homes where he was there for hours.
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: And then secondly, DNA is such a good piece of
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: evidence because it's unique to the suspect, it's illegal. There
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: were warrants in various stages of this case. And you
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: leave DNA pretty much everywhere you go, so you don't
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: have to necessarily fingerprints, because if you wear gloves, you
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: don't have fingerprints, but you it's hard not to be
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: somewhere for hours and do the kind of crimes he
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: did and not leave your DNA all over that house.
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: You know, the reason he managed to outsmart everyone clearly
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: is because he was in law enforcement. He knew how
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: to cover his tracks. He knew every trick in the book.
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: To Emory Shebert, the Sacramento District Attorney, DA Shebert, how
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: did you get around the statute of limitations on murder?
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: There is no statute, but on rape in many jurisdictions
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: there is, although that tide is shifting. Yeah, so in
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: California back in nineteen the early nineties of statue limitations
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: with six years and so, you know, I think it
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: was probably serendipity, as I call it, when I got
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: a phone call from Pete will Over, who's a sack
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: ped detective one of the best I've ever seen, called
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: me late ninety nine, frustrated because he had a couple
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: of very horrific crimes, this one plus another one that
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: the guy ended up getting caught in. Coincidentally, at the
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: time that he called me, I had read a story
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: about another prosecutor in another state doing this idea of
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: charging an unknown person but alleging his true his DNA
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: as his description, and so I, myself and my colleagues
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: did a lot of research on it. In California law
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: looked at it, felt very strongly that we could do it,
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: and I felt like, well, there's you know, this guy,
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: whoever it is, needs to be held accountable, and if
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: we don't do this, he's going to get away with it.
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: So we did it on this case. We did it
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: on another case. The other case the guy got ended
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: up getting caught. This is a guy named Paul Robinson,
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: tried it, went all the way to cal Supreme Court
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: and it was upheld and that guy was sitting in
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: prison for about sixty five years now. So it was
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: something that we felt strongly that you know, these are
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: horrific crimes this particular case plus the other case, and
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: we felt like we wanted to do everything within our
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: legal toolbag to comply with that Saxon limitations. Even though
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: we didn't have a name, we could ultimately put a
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: face to that profile, that DNA profile, and that's what
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: we did. And in this case, it weren't take a
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: listen to our friends at Sea thirteen. The FBI tracked
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: him down at his home Indicator, Georgia, using the same
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: technology called genetic genealogy that led to an arrest in
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: the East Area rapist case last year. Without our ability
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: to use DNA and genetic genealogy, we would not have
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: this predator in custody right now, and maybe never would.
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: The Sacramento County District Attorney says, catching a predator like
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: Mark Mantefeld is about passion, patience, and persistance. You know,
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: I am proud to say we have put a face
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: to that DNA profile, and today, quarter of a century later,
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: a silent witness has spoken. The DA praised the ingenuity
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: and teamwork of detectives who had the foresight to keep
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: DNA test kits longer than the law allowed at the time.
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace serial rapist is bust thanks
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: to cutting edge technology, the same type that helped identify
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: the suspected East Area rapists last year. Today, law enforcement
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: announce the arrest of a former Sacramento man who had
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: worked in federal prisons and lectured at Sacramento State. Cbsoteens
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: Rachel Wolf tells us more about who he is and
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: how it took decades for authorities that track him down. Rachel,
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: the authorities here tell us that Mark Manifold lived in
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: this area, he went to sax State, even lectured there briefly,
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: as you said, But he is actually being accused of
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: sexually assaulting several women connected through DNA technology that didn't
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: even exist when those crimes were committed. Janetic genealogy has
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: led to dozens of arrest nationwide, including suspected Golden State
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: killer Joseph DeAngelo. By putting crime scene DNA profiles in
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: a public database like Jetmatch, authorities can identify relatives of
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: a suspect. The genealogists build family trees to find the
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: actual suspect. That's what pointed detectives in Washington State to
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: William Talbot. He was just found guilty of murdering a
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: couple in nineteen eighty seven, the first conviction by jury
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: tied to Janeta genealogy. This truly is a revolution in
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: crime fighting, and genetic genealogy is not going away now.
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: But it also raises privacy questions because information from innocent
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: people is being used without their knowledge. Last month, jed
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: match changed its policies so law enforcement can only search
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: users who give their consent. You are hearing our friends
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: at CBS thirteen Rachel Wolf and NBCNS Joe Friar the
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: debate over privacy raging. Can't agree at all with the
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: opponents of genealogical DNA to Sacramento District Attorney and Marie Sibert,
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: who is it that is opposing your use of genealogical
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: DNA to put violent criminals behind bars? Oh, I think
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: it's you know, there are individuals that are privacy advocates
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: that feel like law enforcement shouldn't be able to use
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: this tool. I mean, it's it's probably somewhat of an
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: anti law enforcement effort. But you know, the most important
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: I want to keep in mind for the listeners is
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: that we in Sacramento and those of us in California
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: have taken a very proactive effort and since the arrest
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: of the Golden Sekuler to get out there to educate
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: law enforcement and the public, but law enforcement on how
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: to not only do this, but to balance that privacy interest,
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: which you know we reckon. There is a privacy interest,
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: but as a judge said, you know, public safety far
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: outweighs it. But we're out there. We're not, like I
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: said earlier, we're not going to use this tool on
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: low level, non violent crimes. We're using this in a
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: manner that is identifying individuals for violent crimes, and we're
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: establishing a best practice model in California that we're pushing
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: not just across this country, but across this world because
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: we want to maintain this tool. We don't want somebody
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: to ban on it because they don't understand it, which
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: it is complex, but the most important thing to understand
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: is that we are proactively educating our law enforcement partners
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: on one how the tool works, but to make sure
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: that we are doing it in the appropriate cases. Can
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: I ask an answer, Listen, here's my question for all
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: of those individuals whose DNA is being run without their knowledge,
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: as they claim the right to privacy people claim, what's
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: the harm to them if they haven't committed the atrocious,
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: horrific crime that's being investigated, What is the harm. I
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: don't see that there's a harm to this process, dude.
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan, forensics expert and author of Blood Beneath
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: My Feet on Amazon. Joe Scott actually really brings up
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: a good point because if I have a distant relative
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: that commits a rape and murder, and somehow my DNA
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: is examined to finally reach the identity of that distant cousin,
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: I don't know about it. It doesn't affect my life.
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: I'm happy they did. I have no problem with it.
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: The only person that has a problem with it is
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: the perpetrator. Joe Scott Morgan. Yeah, And I think that
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: the people that are going to be looking at privacy here,
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: they have a fear that, you know, in the long run,
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: what are the gatekeepers over these databases going to do
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: and handle the sensitive information. But I got to bring
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: this back all the way back to one point, Nancy.
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: The important thing here to remember is that all those
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: decades ago, we had law enforcement people that were on
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: the ground, that were doing their job that means that
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: they were able to collect DNA evidence. At that point
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: in time, they didn't know how far reaching DNA was
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: going to be. They were able to collect this physical
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: evidence they did. They went out and did their job
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: and did a good job at the scene. Remember, what
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: we're dealing with here is very very fragile biological evidence,
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: and all these years later, all these years later, it
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: would still remain in tact so that they could put
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: this guy behind bars. Two especial guest George s Giro,
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: DNA expert at Skills Biological Lab. George explained to me,
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: are these geneological websites, you know, like ancestry dot com
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: and all of that. How does for instance, ancestry dot
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: com get your DNA? Explain how it works well? And
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: NAS people doing geneological REA search will have their DNA
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: tested using certain kits and they'll take those they'll put
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: them into ancestry dot com and they'll look for relatives
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: to see if anyone, you know, if they can find
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: a distanct cousin or do family trees and that sort
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: of thing. Then there's also a public database called jetmatch.
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: And this is the number one thing I think that
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: I would encourage your listeners to do if they are
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: in jeedmatch. Jetmatch recently change their terms of service in
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: that they're automatically opting out everyone from law enforcement searches
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: of the database. What if if any of your listeners
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: are members of jet match, they need to make sure
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: if they're interested in continue to solve these crimes as
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: jet matches done, they need to opt in so that
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: law enforcement can search those profiles. And that I think
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: is the number one take home message that I would
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: have for your listeners as if you're a member of
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: jet match, to go ahead and opt in, because that's
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: going to give us a broader area to search and
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: to be able to find these potential killers and rapists
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: and get them off. Put it in a nutshell, George Cairo.
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: Don't people just spit into a container repeatedly and that's
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: how they give their DNA essentially even that or sometimes
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: it's by a swab, But yes, they'll just spit in,
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: send it in, get the results, and then, like I said,
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: they can, once they get those results from ancestry dot
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: com twenty three and me, they can then upload those
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: to the public database and jedmatch in order to get
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: their DNA profiles out there to see if they can
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: find any relatives, potential biological parents and those sort of things.
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: To Sacramento Police Chief Daniel Han, Chief Han, what did
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: it feel like. Do you remember the moment that you
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: discovered there had been a positive match and you, somehow,
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: after all these years, caught the rapist. Yeah. We've had
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: several of those over the last year and a half.
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: So it's a really good day when you hear your
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: guys go, okay, we have some leads and we're working
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: on them to confirmed them. So yeah, there's been a
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: lot and a lot of times we can do it
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: through the criminal database. But like these guys, the Golden
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: State killer, nor Cal rapist, and this guy, they hadn't
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: been arrested in half a lengthy criminal history through the court,
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: so they were literally hiding in plain sight, and I
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: don't know how we would catch him other than this.
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: You know, I'm thinking a lot right now about a
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: little girl, April Tinsley, an eight year old little girl kidnapped,
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: brutally raped, murdered, her body thrown in a ditch through
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: genealogical DNA. Her killer an Indiana man, John D. Miller,
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: when he got in court, he stood up. All he
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: was so shaky. All they could do is say his
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: name to a pact court room, and his voice shook.
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: He was afraid of the law, he was afraid of justice.
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: But when he had that eight year old little girl,
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: he wasn't afraid. He killed her. Genealogical DNA may be
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: the only solution to put people like April Tinsley's killer
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: behind bars, demons like Mark Mantafell behind bars. To all
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: of our guests, but especially Sacramento da Amory Shubert, Sacramento
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: Police Chief Daniel Hahn, thank you for being with us
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: and please continue to fight the good fight. Nancy Grace
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: Crime Story signing off, goodbye friend. To find out more
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: about investigative genetic genealogy, good I'm in for justice dorg