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Kathy Ruemmler And Her Epstein Related Transcript From Her Trip To Congress (Part 13) (8/9/26) · The Vault: The Epstein Files

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: where we left off with Kathy Rumler and her conversation
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: with Congress redacted. All right, let's enter Minority Exhibit Jay
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: Bates number EFTA zero one two zero three seveny one nine.
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: It's in April twenty first, twenty fifteen email exchange between
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: you and mister Epstein. Mister Epstein forwarded you an inquiry
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: from ABC News regarding an interview with gets caught off
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: by mister Fishman. I'm sorry. Do you want her to
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: read the document first before you summarize it? Redacted? Sure? Fishman, okay. Question. So,
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: before we discuss this particular exhibit, we're going to have
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: the members ask some questions. Mister Krishna Morthy, Miss Rumler okay,
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: Christina Morthy okay, thank you. Ms Rumler. My first question
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: is did you say before that Leon Black or was
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: Leon Black someone that was referred to you as a
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: client by mister Epstein, Miss Rumler, Not Leon Black. It was,
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: as I recall, there was a commercial dispute with Apollo.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: Question so Apollo the firm? Answer? Apollo the firm correct.
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: Question okay? And how much in billing did Apollo a
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: crew with Latham and Watkins at the time that you
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: were with Latham and Watkins because of that referral? Rumler, oh, zero,
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: we had a conflict, so we were unable to do
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: the case. Question were any other clients referred to Latham
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: by Epstein? Rumler? Yes, question through you. Answer yes, there
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: was another person who he referred to me. That was
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: an individual who had been indicted in California in connection
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: with corporate acquisition. Question was it just one other client
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: that was referred to you by him? Answer? Well, of
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: course the Rothchild client was referred to me. Question okay.
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: Answer originally when he called me, it was about a
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: referral relating to this donor advised fund that he was
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: working on with mister Gates. Question any others? Answered directly,
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: not that I can remember sitting here. Question and how
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: much in billing did those clients refer to you by
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: Epstein a crew for Latham and Watkins. Answer, I don't
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: remember the specific amount. Question tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, millions.
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: Rumer Again, I don't remember the specific amount for the
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: Rothschild representation. My best recollection is that it was in
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: the single digit millions. Question Okay, did Epstein ever help
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: you in attaining your position at Goldman in twenty twenty? Answer? No,
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: he did not. Question did he ever try to help
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: you with landing any position at any other firm, including
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: Facebook not limited to Facebook? Answer not, to my knowledge
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: at the time when mister Epstein. Mister Epstein had nothing
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: to do at all with the outreach that I got
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: from Facebook. I had known for many years the retiring
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: general counsel, and he reached out to me. I made
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: the mistake I think of mentioning it to mister Epstein,
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: and then, as was his typical fashion, what I've now
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: seen is that he wanted to make himself relevant, and
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: so he would offer all sorts of suggestions about negotiations
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: around any offer. Question I understand Rumler. I didn't ultimately
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: didn't want an offer from Facebook, and I didn't receive one,
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: so his musings about that were not relevant. Question. I
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: have an email here. It's EFTA R one zero one
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: three three three eight four nine bait stamp. If you
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: can share that with the witness please, Fishman, how would
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: you like this marked redacted? It's going to be Exhibit
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: K minority Exhibit K. Question, and this is as you
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: can tell, this is an email that was originally from
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: Eryl Gould to you, which you then forwarded to mister
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: Epstein later on. Rumler, Yeah, question, Okay, we can all
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: read the substance of the email, but the first sentence
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: of that email says, I certainly do hope at this
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: time you understand the finality of your relationship with my husband.
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: She's referring to read Winegarten. Rumler, Yes, question, I hope
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: now you can find true happiness without having a relationship
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: with somebody else's husband. Was mister Epstein aware of this
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: relationship before Cheryl Gould became aware of this relationship? Roumler,
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: is this relevant to your inquiry? Question? Yes? Absolutely, one
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: hundred percent. Rumler, Okay, I'm happy to answer the question. Fishman.
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: Happy you may not be the right word, Roomler. It's
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: surprising to me that this is something that you would
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: spend your time on, but let's go ahead with it. So,
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: unbeknownst to me or inexplicably, I came to learn that
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: mister Epstein, mister Winingarten, had said something to mister Epstein
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: about his feelings for me. I did not raise those.
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: I didn't raise those with mister Epstein. Mister Epstein raised
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: it with me. Question, I guess my question is this.
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: My question is were you aware that Epstein knew about
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: the relationship prior to the time that you became aware
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: that Gould became aware of the relationship Rumler. The answer
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: is I think I understand what you're asking an yes,
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: and that's why I forwarded this. And to be clear,
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: to be very clear, my relationship with mister Winegarten was
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: which has absolutely nothing to do with mister Epstein whatsoever.
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: Question he didn't introduce you or anything else like that.
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: Answer No, as I with apologies, I don't think you
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: were here a congressman. When I said this, he cold
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: called me out my law firm. I was an unmarried
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: person and mister Winegarten was an unmarried person. When I
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: received this email, it was out of the blue. I
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: was shocked and mortified, among other reactions. And the reason
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: that I forwarded it to Epstein is because Epstein had
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: raised with me that mister Winegarten had raised with him
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: his feelings toward me. Question last question in an earlier email,
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  Speaker 1: and we can share this with you. You Basically, he
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: said to you on July ninth, twenty seventeen, can you
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: and I have a coffee or a meal with John
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: Brennan Runer? Yes? Question and in response you said that
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: would be fun. I think you would be scared off
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: because of your Google history. That was July ninth, twenty nineteen.
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: When did you become aware of Jeffrey Epstein's conviction for
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: child prostitution? Rumler? I became aware of it when he
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: pled guilty to two prostitution related offenses, including solicitation of
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: a minor for prosecution in or around July of twenty fourteen.
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: Question thank you, mister chrishmmrthy seeds to Representative Randall. Question,
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: thank you, miss Rumler. Earlier this year, the Miami Herald
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: published the story describing how you work with Steve Bannon
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: and others in twenty eighteen and twenty nineteen two. I'm
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: going to use quotier to help counter the public narrative
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: that was forming against mister Epstein after The Herald's perversion
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: of justice investigation was published. What work did you do
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: with mister Bannon? Answer? I didn't do any work with
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: mister Bannon. Mister Bannon was someone who I met on
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: one or two occasions at business meetings, and I didn't
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: work with them on anything. Miss Randall, what's your understanding
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: of mister Epstein's relationship with mister Bannon? Answer? I didn't know.
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: I mean, they seem to be friendly, but I didn't know,
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: like beyond that question. So, do you have any knowledge
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: of mister Bannon ever acting as an intermediary between Epstein
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: and Donald Trump? Answer? I don't question. In text messages
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: from August of twenty eighteen between mister Ebstein and mister Bannon,
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: mister Epstein wrote, your girlfriend Ruemler is coming over. Do
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: you know why Epstein would refer to you in the
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: manner even jokingly? Rumler, lord knows, I have no idea question.
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: I'm going to list some names and for these individuals,
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: I would like to know if you were ever aware
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: of mister Ebstein or miss Max while introducing them to
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: any minor girls or young women for the purpose of
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: engaging in sexual activity. Kimball Musk answer, I'm not familiar
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: with that name, Randall. Elon Musk's brother Martin Noak Rumler,
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry. Would you mind repeating the preface of the
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: question Randall, Yeah, if you have any knowledge of mister
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: Epstein or miss Maxwell introducing them to any minor women
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: or girls. Rumler, Okay, thank you question. I think you
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: can answer the question as a whole though, Roomner, Yeah,
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: I can answer them. The answer with respect to mister
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: Noak is no. With respect to both Epstein and Maxwell Randall,
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: Richard Branson answer no. David Copperfield answer no, David Blaine
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: answer no, Larry Summers answer no. Paulo Zampolli answer no,
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: Peter Mandelsson answer no, Henry Jureki, I'm sorry. Henry Dureki
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: answer no. Stephen Hansen answer no. Alan Dershowitz answer no,
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: Glenn Dubin answer no, Tom Pritzker answer no. And Edward
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: Brock answer no. Question. Thank you. I appreciate you answering. Roumner. Yeah.
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: And just to clarify the record, I'm unaware of any
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: of that activity with respect to anyone at the time. Again,
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: as I understand, the allegations that have been put forth
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: by the Justice Department is that the activities involving mister
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: Ebstein and miss Maxwell predicated my knowing of mister Ebstein
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: by ten years at least so that's I have no
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: knowledge of anything anything relating to those types of activities.
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: Mister Randall, thank you, mister Minn, thank you. So now
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: we have mister min asking the questions. Miss Rumler, I
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: know it's been a long day, Fishman. That means it
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: sounds like it's over. Congressman. That's fine, that would be great. Men.
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: I don't know how much longer, but I wanted to
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: switch to Brad Karp and your relationship with him. How
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: long have you known mister Karp Rumler? Probably fifteen years? Question?
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: Fifteen years so around twenty eleven, twenty ten, Roomler, Yeah, men,
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: And how did you first meet him? Was it a
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: professional personal Roomler? Professional? Question? Working on a case together? Interacting? Rumler?
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: Mister Karp is a very prominent member of the legal community,
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: and he was the chairman of Men Paul Weiss Rumler,
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: Paul Weiss and I had multiple friends who were partners
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: at Paul White Also, men, can you remind me where
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: you were again in twenty eleven, twenty ten? I apologize answer.
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: I was working at the White House at the time,
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: mister min at the White House, okay, got it? And like,
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: how often did you interact with him over that time. Rumler,
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: I knew Brad, but I came to The only memory
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: I have of an interaction with him is when I
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: was leaving the White House to go back to the
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: private sector. I spoke to a couple of law firms
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: and Paul Weiss was one of them, and Paul Weiss
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: was recruiting me to join the law firm, and I
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: spoke with him quite a bit in that context. Men,
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: And did you continue to speak with them after that
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: point in time? Rumler? Yeah, question professionally or Roumler professionally.
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: Question did you have any discussion or interaction relating to
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein with mister Karp? Answer? Yeah. I was aware
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: that Brad Karp knew Epstein in a very similar way
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: that I knew mister Epstein in the sense that he
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: had a client in the form of Apollo. Mister Black
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: was the chairman and CEO of Apollo, and mister Epstein
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: had a business relationship with with mister Black. Similarly, I
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: had a client relationship with the Rothschild Bank and mister
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: Epstein had a separate business relationship with the bank. That
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: was my understanding of how mister Carp knew mister Epstein,
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: mister minn. And in twenty fourteen there's an email from
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein saying that he was introduced to you by
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: mister Carp. Is that something that you would agree with, Rumler,
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: that gets cut off by min Mister Epstein introduced you
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: to mister Carp, Rumler. No, mister Epstein just cold called
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: my firm. Min He co called your firm, Rumler. If
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: mister Carp had recommended me in some way, shape or form,
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: I didn't know that. Men. But you were introduced gets
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: cut off by Rumler. No, we were not introduced, No men.
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: And so after that time when you were introduced or
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: when mister Epstein called you over the next I guess
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: what five six years, how often would you when mister
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: Carp discuss Epstein, Like once a week, once a month,
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: once a year, Rumler, Oh gosh, no, I would say
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: very rarely. At some point in time, I think I
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: mentioned earlier, Congressman, when you weren't in the room, that
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: my observation was Epstein tried to make himself relevant men.
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: I heard you say that, Rumler, okay, connecting people, and
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: at that point or some point, I think he tried
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: to make himself relevant by talking to mister Carp about
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: recruiting me to leave Latham and go to Paul Weiss.
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: Mister Minn. Just the last couple questions here, did you
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: communicate with mister Carp. Actually, I'll preface this by saying
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: I have at least three emails saying I don't have
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: the documents here, so would you have to take my
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: word on this. But on February twenty second, twenty nineteen,
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: you were on an email with mister Carp that's sent
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: by mister Epstein updating you and mister Carp on developments
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: in a lawsuit with one of his alleged victims. And
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: on March third, twenty nineteen email you were copied. Mister
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: Carr provided legal advice to Epstein, including regarding protecting his
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: two thousand and eight plea deal, and in March thirty
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: first of twenty eighteen email exchange, you advised mister Epstein
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: on certain steps he might take consider taking following a
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: lawsuit against him. How often did you and mister Carp
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: communicate about Epstein, and in particular about legal strategy or
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: legal advice during the period. Is that the entirety of
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: it or was there more rumler my. Again. My observation
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: was that Epstein would ask me and other lawyers who
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: he knew their views. It was sort of like a
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: shotgun approach. It's one of the reasons I would have
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: thought if he were my client, he would have been
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: a maddening client because he shopped around. Okay, you knew Brad,
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: Let me ask Brad what he thinks. I know, Kathy,
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: Let me ask Kathy what she thinks. That was my
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: observation of the way that he engaged with mister carp
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: and the way that he engaged with me. Mister min
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: I'm told we're out of time, so thank you for
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: your time. Redacted. We'll go off record. All right, folks,
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: we're gonna wrap up right here, and in the next
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: episode dealing with the topic, we're gonna pick up where
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: we left off. All the information that goes with this
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: episode can be found in the description box.