Latest / The MOOD Podcast / Chico Review 2026 - part 1: Why Feedback Beats 10,000 Followers

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Chico Review 2026 - part 1: Why Feedback Beats 10,000 Followers · The MOOD Podcast

• 0:00
  Matt Jacob: Hey guys, I'm in a hotel room here in Vancouver just a few days before heading down to Montana for Chico Review Week.
• 0:08
  Matt Jacob: And this is going to be a slightly different podcast episode because I really want to take you through the whole process from an attendee standpoint as it happens.
• 0:18
  Matt Jacob: I'll be documenting the experience on screen as much as possible and hopefully speaking with some of the other photographers attending the review as well as some of the reviewers and speakers themselves along the way.
• 0:30
  Matt Jacob: Now, if you're not familiar with Chico Review, it's one of the most respected portfolio review events in photography.
• 0:58
  Matt Jacob: For a few days or for a week, us photographers from all around the world gather to sit down one-on-one with editors, curators, publishers, and other well-renowned photographers to show our work and talk about where it might go next.
• 1:16
  Matt Jacob: And across this week, you kind of rotate through a series of reviewers, about 10 to 20 of them, and there are dozens of reviewers involved, and you might meet many of them throughout the event.
• 1:26
  Matt Jacob: We hope each conversation lasting around 20 to 30 minutes.
• 1:30
  Matt Jacob: That's all.
• 1:31
  Matt Jacob: And the purpose isn't just to simply show photographs, it's obviously to receive honest, informed, expert feedback from people who have spent their lives working in this type of realm.
• 1:44
  Matt Jacob: Book publishers, magazine editors, curators, and some of the best known photographers around.
• 1:50
  Matt Jacob: People who can look at a body of work and quickly understand both its potential and where, of course, it might need refinement.
• 1:59
  Matt Jacob: So for the past few years, actually, but a few weeks, certainly, I've been deep in preparation for this: editing images, sequencing them, doing a load of prints and trying to kind of shape this work into something that feels like hopefully a finished body rather than just a collection of loose photographs.
• 2:18
  Matt Jacob: The aim being to present my project in a cohesive manner and something that could hopefully eventually become a photo book or some other long form storytelling outlet.
• 2:31
  Matt Jacob: So right now I'm in my hotel room with a bunch of prints spread out on my bed.
• 2:38
  Matt Jacob: I'll show you in a minute.
• 2:39
  Matt Jacob: I'm refining the sequencing, moving images around, seeing how they kind of speak to each other in real life in print form.
• 2:46
  Matt Jacob: Some images kind of open the story a little bit and some hopefully introduce a bit of tension or space.
• 2:53
  Matt Jacob: But once the sequence begins to feel right, I'm going to number each print so that when I sit down with the reviewers in Montana, it's going to be pretty fast-paced.
• 3:01
  Matt Jacob: The work unfolds in kind of that exact order that was in attendance, and I don't waste time, you know, worrying about the sequence.
• 3:08
  Matt Jacob: This is my favorite part of the process, actually.
• 3:11
  Matt Jacob: It's just me, the images, and the question of whether this story actually holds together, the suggested narrative I'm trying to put through.
• 3:18
  Matt Jacob: In these few days, photographs will be on the table in front of lots and lots of people who spent decades shaping the world of photography in photo books.
• 3:26
  Matt Jacob: But right now, it's just about preparation.
• 3:29
  Matt Jacob: And I'll worry about that next week because as we do the reviews and as I get feedback, each review will probably change the way I display them or the change the way I talk about them based on feedback that I might get each time.
• 3:42
  Matt Jacob: So it's going to be a whirlwind of a week, a lot of socializing, a lot of connections, a lot of networking, as well as a lot of kind of professional insight that I think I'm going to be blown away with.
• 3:53
  Matt Jacob: And it's going to be a pretty overwhelming week.
• 3:55
  Matt Jacob: So I'm going to try my best to kind of record the experience firsthand and hopefully give you guys an insight into one of the best and most famous photo weeks in the photo book world there is to date.
• 4:10
  Matt Jacob: This happens every year.
• 4:12
  Matt Jacob: So you can get in by applying.
• 4:14
  Matt Jacob: Obviously, you need to have a pretty cohesive body of work already to go.
• 4:18
  Matt Jacob: And that's it.
• 4:20
  Matt Jacob: You have to pay a certain fee.
• 4:22
  Matt Jacob: You might be lucky enough to get a bit of a scholarship.
• 4:25
  Matt Jacob: And then you're off to the races.
• 4:27
  Matt Jacob: And I have no idea what to expect.
• 4:29
  Matt Jacob: I've obviously spoken to a lot of people, the likes of Jesse Lenz, Brian Scutermat, P Arts.
• 4:33
  Matt Jacob: Those uh obviously Jesse and Brian will be there, and P as an attendee.
• 4:38
  Matt Jacob: And I've also spoken to another few attendees on different workshops before.
• 4:41
  Matt Jacob: Ken Andreas and being one of them, plenty of people, and they all just say how amazing the week is, but how fast paced and how intense it is.
• 4:51
  Matt Jacob: So I'm trying to do as much preparation as I can uh right now so it can just be me in a camera sometimes recording, but I don't want that to take away from me being immersed in the experience.
• 5:02
  Matt Jacob: So apologies if you don't get to see as much of the behind-the-scenes stuff as possible, but I'll try and do my best.
• 5:08
  Matt Jacob: And um, yeah, for now, we're still seeing the images.
• 5:11
  Matt Jacob: So I'll I'll give you a little bit of an insight as to what it looks like.
• 5:16
  Matt Jacob: Okay, so I don't want to show you like all my images because if this does become a book, I want to keep it a little bit um a little bit, well, not secret, but a little bit of uh of a mystery.
• 5:28
  Matt Jacob: Um I'm not saying this is finished in any way whatsoever, but the this is kind of like my first attempt at putting this into a into a position where I think it can be promoted or at least um suggested for print.
• 5:43
  Matt Jacob: So all I'm doing at the moment is well, I've spent the last I kind of knew what my sequence roughly was going to be anyway, but as you guys know, or you might know, putting something together on screen and actually printing it out and playing around with them, which I I always recommend people to do.
• 5:59
  Matt Jacob: On your floor, on a whiteboard, I've got 8x10 prints, a few 11 by 17 prints, but eight by ten is kind of minimum size for me because you really want to kind of see the images and see how they really um flow together.
• 6:15
  Matt Jacob: Um, but you can also do like five by seven, like kind of postcard size if you're limited for space.
• 6:20
  Matt Jacob: I've got about I think I've got 40 images here.
• 6:23
  Matt Jacob: Um one, two, four, six, eight, ten, twelve, thirty forty, forty-three images.
• 6:33
  Matt Jacob: Um, yeah, and I think that's it.
• 6:35
  Matt Jacob: The biggest difficulty is obviously cutting images down because you know, in in this case, I've spent three years, uh, at least three years just looking at the images, at least three years kind of putting taking some actually more.
• 6:48
  Matt Jacob: There's a few in a few in here that are five, six years old.
• 6:52
  Matt Jacob: Just taking images, right?
• 6:54
  Matt Jacob: Um, and kind of figuring out where the story or where the narrative might, the source of that narrative might come from, which is usually inside of you.
• 7:03
  Matt Jacob: But uh this is like trying to distill six years of photography down to 45 images when you've probably taken thousands and thousands, then you know, as you can imagine, that's a painstaking or challenging and enjoyable, but also painstaking exercise because you leave so many off the table that you're proud of.
• 7:25
  Matt Jacob: But that's why editing and sequencing a book and a series is uh a skill and an art in itself.
• 7:32
  Matt Jacob: So this is something I'm really learning, um, a steep learning curve, and looking forward to getting better at it.
• 7:40
  Matt Jacob: And uh yeah, so you'll see here um on my hotel bed, we've got plenty of images.
• 7:48
  Matt Jacob: There's about what I say, 43.
• 7:50
  Matt Jacob: And now it's just about moving them around, making sure that there's pairings, but also pairings, points, pairings, making sure we we've got the tension, we've got the introduction, we've got the bookends in place, and you know, kind of basic theory.
• 8:04
  Matt Jacob: And I I know I'm very open-minded.
• 8:06
  Matt Jacob: I know as soon as I I put this in front of for, for instance, a publisher, they're just gonna kind of rip it up and just say, This is all wrong.
• 8:14
  Matt Jacob: Have you thought about uh sequencing it like this?
• 8:16
  Matt Jacob: So I'm I'm not trying to get all the answers now, I'm not trying to know all the answers, but this is just kind of my first, first real attempt at putting an edit together that I feel tells what I'm trying to tell.
• 8:31
  Matt Jacob: And that's not a secret, I'm not gonna give it away too much, but by the end of the week and by the end, by the end of this video and this podcast, I will kind of give you a little bit more of an insight as to what this project is about, why it means so much to me, and um yeah, if it has resonated at all with any of the reviewers uh or any of the other attendees.
• 8:52
  Matt Jacob: So, yeah, with regards to the reviewers, um I there are some just some huge names.
• 8:59
  Matt Jacob: And actually, I'm probably gonna be starstruck a little bit when I get there.
• 9:02
  Matt Jacob: Luckily, with the the pod, I've kind of met a few of them already online.
• 9:06
  Matt Jacob: Um, but there's so many more that I've put on.
• 9:09
  Matt Jacob: As attendees, we get to list our pre preferred reviewers that we want to be reviewed by, and we get a top 10, and then the rest are just kind of filled in whenever you can imagine the logistics with.
• 9:22
  Matt Jacob: I think there's 64 attendees, and there's 20, about 25 reviewers and speakers, because there's keynote speakers, there's alumni um attendees, and then there's reviewers as well.
• 9:34
  Matt Jacob: All of them review at some point.
• 9:37
  Matt Jacob: So, yeah, there's there's basically, you know, 90, 100 people in a in a conference room, all trying to, you know, just just talk photography.
• 9:48
  Matt Jacob: And and this is these are the types of rooms I want to be in.
• 9:51
  Matt Jacob: And this is why I'm going, and this is why I've traveled halfway around the road, halfway around the world.
• 9:57
  Matt Jacob: You know, coming from Bali to Montana is no mean feat.
• 10:00
  Matt Jacob: And uh, as you can imagine, it's very expensive.
• 10:03
  Matt Jacob: And uh, I just I just it's just a no-brainer for me.
• 10:07
  Matt Jacob: As soon as I found out about this event a few years ago, uh, I'll be watching it closely and obviously working on photography to get to a point where I feel like I I belong in the room.
• 10:17
  Matt Jacob: And uh we're at that point now.
• 10:19
  Matt Jacob: So I'm super excited, uh, quite apprehensive and yeah, just curious as to what this is gonna be like.
• 10:28
  Matt Jacob: So I'll hopefully be able to translate that through here and through the microphone if you're listening.
• 10:36
  Matt Jacob: Um, and yeah, really hope to kind of sit down with a few people that I admire, and I'll give you much more information as we start going as to who my reviewers are gonna be, and I'll try and keep you up to date because it's the days are packed.
• 10:49
  Matt Jacob: But after that first day, I have a good idea of what my schedule is gonna be like, who I'm gonna be reviewed by, etc.
• 10:54
  Matt Jacob: etc.
• 10:54
  Matt Jacob: So I'll keep you guys up to date as much as possible.
• 10:57
  Matt Jacob: But yeah, for now, I'm gonna get back to putting numbers on the back of these images, and I will see you on the other side.
• 11:05
  Matt Jacob: All right, guys, we made it to Chico.
• 11:07
  Matt Jacob: Uh, it's our first night we checked in just a few hours ago.
• 11:11
  Matt Jacob: We were pretty late.
• 11:12
  Matt Jacob: Um, we got delayed from Chicago.
• 11:14
  Matt Jacob: We're seeing my brother for a few days in Chicago before coming down here.
• 11:18
  Matt Jacob: Before that, we stopped in Vancouver, um, which is when I spoke to you guys last, and we're just trying to spend some days getting on the time zone because from Bali, it's like 14 hours time difference.
• 11:29
  Matt Jacob: Uh, and I didn't want to go into this week exhausted, um, but hasn't quite worked out.
• 11:35
  Matt Jacob: I don't know if I'm fighting something in terms of illness or if it's just lack of sleep, but uh, I definitely have been struggling the last few days with just energy and tiredness.
• 11:45
  Matt Jacob: So it's uh it's not even late, it's like 9:30 here at the moment.
• 11:49
  Matt Jacob: We've had dinner, we've met everyone, done registration, introductions, tours, and got the reviewer schedule, which I'll show you guys in a minute.
• 11:57
  Matt Jacob: But we are we're just done.
• 12:00
  Matt Jacob: We are we're so tired um after this week.
• 12:03
  Matt Jacob: So we're hoping to get a really good night's sleep tonight, uh, an attack tomorrow with as much energy and passion as possible because it's gonna be a busy, busy, intense five days, which I'm really excited about, but also quite apprehensive about uh expecting some bad with the good and some up and down emotions and a lot of socializing, networking, meeting some amazing people.
• 12:26
  Matt Jacob: So I'm gonna try and take you guys through it as much as I can.
• 12:30
  Matt Jacob: There's some stuff I won't be allowed to record, there's uh some stuff I just want to be in the moment with and not want to pull out a camera like the last few hours.
• 12:39
  Matt Jacob: Um, so I'll try and do my best.
• 12:41
  Matt Jacob: I'm gonna try and get a few guys to sit with me in a quarter and just chat um about some things.
• 12:48
  Matt Jacob: And yeah, we'll see how it goes.
• 12:51
  Matt Jacob: So there's a lot of people here.
• 12:53
  Matt Jacob: I'm not gonna be able to befriend and talk to everyone, I don't think, but we'll see.
• 12:57
  Matt Jacob: Uh, and we'll see how tomorrow goes.
• 13:00
  Matt Jacob: So I check in with you guys um uh tomorrow morning.
• 13:03
  Matt Jacob: We've got keynote speeches tomorrow morning after breakfast, and then every afternoon is blocked for the reviews.
• 13:09
  Matt Jacob: We get 20 minutes per review, and this is my schedule.
• 13:14
  Matt Jacob: Um you can see here I've got the camera a bit better.
• 13:19
  Matt Jacob: I start tomorrow with Tim Carpenter at one o'clock, and then just back to back for three tomorrow, just a couple on Wednesday, and then Friday's a big day with Odette, Brian, and Claudine, and then we finish, and I put I've got Brad Zeller in here as well on Wednesday.
• 13:37
  Matt Jacob: I just kindly spoke to him because I didn't get him, and I didn't get Matthew Jen in tempo either.
• 13:43
  Matt Jacob: So my pro my project, my task tomorrow is to speak to Matthew and see if he can fit me in somewhere, or at least uh give me half an hour of his time over a beer at some point during this week.
• 13:56
  Matt Jacob: But yeah, look at those names, some really big names and some yeah, really interesting reviews are gonna happen.
• 14:03
  Matt Jacob: So uh I will check in with you guys tomorrow and try and keep you apprised of all of the cool stuff that's happening and hopefully take you on the journey as we go.
• 14:12
  Matt Jacob: But until then, I wish you good night and I'll chat to you tomorrow.
• 14:17
  Matt Jacob: See ya.
• 14:18
  Matt Jacob: Okay, day, well, technically day two, but day one really.
• 14:24
  Matt Jacob: We're walking down for breakfast now.
• 14:26
  Matt Jacob: Breakfast, then two keynote speakers, Peter Hugo, and I think Carolyn Drake.
• 14:34
  Matt Jacob: I can't remember.
• 14:35
  Matt Jacob: So we're heading to breakfast and then morning of speeches, then lunch, and then it's beautiful.
• 14:43
  Matt Jacob: Hey guys, end of day one.
• 14:57
  Matt Jacob: Sorry, haven't uh given uh much of a behind the scenes or in front of the scenes, but uh it's been a kind of hectic day, and I haven't honestly felt that comfortable with um recording anything or anyone yet, but uh it'll come uh as we kind of ease more into the week.
• 15:18
  Matt Jacob: Um so today we had two keynote speeches, um, one by Peter Hugo and another one by Janet Delaney, both excellent, um, some QA's at the end.
• 15:31
  Matt Jacob: And then we had some lunch, and all in all in in amongst all of this is just um socializing, essentially meeting people, meeting all the other attendees, um, as well as getting some access to the reviewers and meeting them and talking to them before we go into the afternoon reviews.
• 15:51
  Matt Jacob: So first up I had Tim Carpenter, and then I had Carl Woolley, and then I had Janet Delaney.
• 15:59
  Matt Jacob: Um really interesting experience.
• 16:01
  Matt Jacob: Like we just get 20 minutes to kind of uh present the work.
• 16:05
  Matt Jacob: And uh it's almost like speed dating and trying to kind of express something you've been working on for so long and something that means so much to you in that uh time, and that's uh kind of the whole point, right?
• 16:17
  Matt Jacob: It's meant to be done through the images.
• 16:20
  Matt Jacob: And uh yeah, I had mixed reviews, um all pointing to uh pointing to the same topics really of of uh what I what should be uh looking at, what I should be potentially changing, what I should be potentially working on moving forward.
• 16:39
  Matt Jacob: So um really kind of eclectic mix of reviewers, which is good um because uh having a more objective uh view on my work um from people who you know have very different styles in terms of their their own photography as well as their reviewer style.
• 16:59
  Matt Jacob: And um wow, it's Wendy here.
• 17:02
  Matt Jacob: Uh so that was uh really, really interesting and um a little bit deflating at times, but uh uh generally some really good points and really good uh uh critique that has really made me think and made me um not go back to the drawing board at all.
• 17:22
  Matt Jacob: But certainly when it comes to the edit and what images I'm presenting, um I think uh where this work needs to go for me to be even tighter, to be even more uh cohesive, to be more importantly more clear on uh the the suggested narrative that I'm trying to express.
• 17:42
  Matt Jacob: Because it's a lot of it's quite abstract, uh it can be a little difficult for me to collate the the more pertinent images that do that work.
• 17:52
  Matt Jacob: So yeah, we'll see.
• 17:54
  Matt Jacob: We'll see.
• 17:54
  Matt Jacob: We've got another seven reviews left to tomorrow.
• 17:58
  Matt Jacob: Um trying to the beauty of this and the way Jesse um from charcoal has kind of created this event, we're now in the tenth year of it, is that he he he gives access to everyone essentially.
• 18:10
  Matt Jacob: So everyone's mingling the reviewers, the speakers, the attendees, the staff, we're all in it together.
• 18:16
  Matt Jacob: And so even if you don't get a reviewer that you wanted on your review sheet, then there's so many chances just to ask them politely in in the spare time.
• 18:28
  Matt Jacob: We have quite a lot of spare time, which is great, to have a look at your work, as well as all of the other attendees that want to look at your work and that want to share their work as well.
• 18:37
  Matt Jacob: So it's it's really such a great community where you can just talk for do geek out on photography, but geek out on your own stories and and learn from others and share ideas.
• 18:49
  Matt Jacob: And that's what it's all about, to kind of really understand if your ideas is ideas are worth pursuing in the way that you're trying to pursue them.
• 18:57
  Matt Jacob: So it's a long road, long journey.
• 19:00
  Matt Jacob: And um by by no means am I anywhere near a finished product, but I think there's something bubbling that I'm just trying to pass out this week.
• 19:12
  Matt Jacob: And hopefully by the end of this week, I'll have made new friends, um new contacts, potentially new podcast guests, but more importantly, like more clear picture of where this body of work is going and what it means to people who are seeing it for the first time.
• 19:26
  Matt Jacob: So stay tuned.
• 19:27
  Matt Jacob: I promise tomorrow I'm going to try and get more footage from inside the scenes, not the reviews.
• 19:33
  Matt Jacob: I can't do that, but um certainly the the keynote speak speeches and the in-between moments, which I think are gonna be really important.
• 19:40
  Matt Jacob: So as I get to know more people and be more comfortable putting a microphone in their face, so yeah, hopefully tomorrow.
• 19:46
  Matt Jacob: Um, and then Thursday we have a free day.
• 19:49
  Matt Jacob: So I'm planning to kind of sit down with a few attendees, potentially a few reviewers if they're they're willing, but definitely a few attendees to just kind of talk about what this experience is meaning for them and and their own perspective on what this week is showing for them.
• 20:04
  Matt Jacob: So um I'm going to bed now.
• 20:06
  Matt Jacob: It's midnight and we're gonna be up early.
• 20:09
  Matt Jacob: So see you tomorrow.
• 20:11
  Matt Jacob: Okay, we're here day two.
• 20:15
  Matt Jacob: Well, day two point five, uh breakfast time with all the reviewees, attendees, and uh everyone basically talking about um talking about the reviews from yesterday and you know who did you get, what did they say, any good feedback?
• 20:36
  Matt Jacob: Um is this reviewer too is this reviewer too harsh?
• 20:42
  Matt Jacob: Um some guys and girls definitely a little bit deflated and uh others pretty buoyant based on um based on what they they had reviewed.
• 20:52
  Matt Jacob: So we are basically prepping for another day of reviews.
• 20:59
  Matt Jacob: And uh yeah, time to to eat breakfast and see where the day heads.
• 21:07
  JJ Sulin: Uh-oh.
• 21:08
  JJ Sulin: We're doing it now.
• 21:09
  JJ Sulin: Yeah, we're doing it for no this isn't this is informal.
• 21:12
  JJ Sulin: This is breakfast.
• 21:14
  Matt Jacob: Breakfast amusing.
• 21:15
  Matt Jacob: Breakfast amusing.
• 21:17
  Matt Jacob: Uh we're here with JJ, what was your last name?
• 21:18
  Matt Jacob: JJ Sulin.
• 21:20
  Matt Jacob: Um uh basically talking about what happened yesterday.
• 21:23
  Matt Jacob: What do you um what did you get out of yesterday?
• 21:26
  JJ Sulin: Um it was helpful.
• 21:27
  JJ Sulin: I get basically Christian Patterson and Pia, um two very different photographers, um took apart the work in a different way, but basically the same idea, meaning just kind of figure out which path you're gonna take and keep going, go further.
• 21:43
  JJ Sulin: And what what what what's your project about?
• 21:46
  JJ Sulin: Um, my project is about and I hate this question because I'm still struggling to talk about it.
• 21:50
  JJ Sulin: Yeah, but uh join the club.
• 21:51
  JJ Sulin: Yeah.
• 21:52
  JJ Sulin: So how it came together was I was going to this place year after year, and it was a place I used to go as a kid, and my um my mom was from there.
• 21:59
  JJ Sulin: And I was very attached to it kind of emotionally.
• 22:02
  JJ Sulin: And I thought it was a place I was very, very connected to.
• 22:05
  JJ Sulin: And I went back year after year and year making these photographs.
• 22:08
  JJ Sulin: And then all of a sudden I realized I don't want to go back.
• 22:11
  JJ Sulin: I'm in the car driving and it's like a 12-hour drive.
• 22:14
  JJ Sulin: Like I don't want to go back.
• 22:15
  JJ Sulin: I don't want to be there.
• 22:16
  JJ Sulin: I don't like this place.
• 22:17
  JJ Sulin: And then I realized, oh, that's probably what the work's about.
• 22:19
  JJ Sulin: This conflict of, you know, what what we're attached to, what home looks like, what connection looks like to places, nostalgia, and all these things.
• 22:30
  Matt Jacob: So we're we're in on what day two, day two kind of uh what what are you hoping to get out of the rest of the week?
• 22:36
  Matt Jacob: A book deal and a million dollars.
• 22:41
  JJ Sulin: Okay, so not much.
• 22:42
  JJ Sulin: Not much.
• 22:43
  JJ Sulin: No, the expectations are low.
• 22:45
  JJ Sulin: Yeah.
• 22:46
  JJ Sulin: Um I just I think just more information.
• 22:49
  JJ Sulin: You know, if I mean it's figured this out.
• 22:51
  JJ Sulin: I think I honestly I probably got enough from yesterday.
• 22:54
  JJ Sulin: Like I I know what I need to do.
• 22:55
  JJ Sulin: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 22:56
  JJ Sulin: I think I could just go right now and probably just go work and probably be fine, but I but there's also these amazing people, so I want to see this day.
• 23:03
  JJ Sulin: Have you got lined up for today?
• 23:05
  JJ Sulin: I have I'm gonna check my list because I know it's forget.
• 23:08
  JJ Sulin: Okay, Larry Tower, Jenna Delaney and Christopher Carr.
• 23:13
  Matt Jacob: Oh wow, what a lineup.
• 23:14
  Matt Jacob: Yeah, I mean it's it's one after another, isn't it?
• 23:16
  Matt Jacob: Just banging names uh in in the photo.
• 23:19
  Matt Jacob: When are we gonna get these three people?
• 23:21
  Matt Jacob: Yeah, like their attention to look at work.
• 23:22
  Matt Jacob: Oh, you've got Matthew Jen and Tempo and Jesse.
• 23:25
  JJ Sulin: Yeah.
• 23:26
  JJ Sulin: Uh those two.
• 23:27
  JJ Sulin: Uh I need to Sunday's a or Saturday's a big day.
• 23:30
  JJ Sulin: Yeah.
• 23:31
  JJ Sulin: Tomorrow like it'd be great.
• 23:32
  JJ Sulin: Daniel Harnold or Mike Brody.
• 23:33
  JJ Sulin: Daniel Mike Brody, Mike Brody's So's Daniel.
• 23:37
  JJ Sulin: See, Daniel Robb Arnold Rob is like in my neighborhood, you know, he's the rector of Brooklyn in New York.
• 23:41
  JJ Sulin: You just see him, you know.
• 23:43
  JJ Sulin: Um so it'd be interesting too.
• 23:44
  JJ Sulin: It just kind of I think also the part of this that's interesting for me is um nobody's here to make money.
• 23:53
  JJ Sulin: There's no money, there's like there's no glory except for within this room, you know, so it's kind of just like being part of the community and seeing being around people who are interested and what I'm interested in.
• 24:05
  Matt Jacob: Yeah, I think that when I spoke to Jesse um a few months ago, it that was the one thing he said you've got to come here for.
• 24:11
  Matt Jacob: It's like, okay, you know, it's about photography and and potentially books, but no one's making money here.
• 24:17
  Matt Jacob: It's more about if you come with the intention of just expanding your community and and meeting people, like-minded people, and that's what it's all about.
• 24:25
  Matt Jacob: You've probably seen that in two days here.
• 24:27
  Matt Jacob: Um, so yeah.
• 24:29
  JJ Sulin: 100%.
• 24:29
  JJ Sulin: We go out and just you know, I guess maybe like a little drive to make more work.
• 24:34
  JJ Sulin: You keep making work.
• 24:35
  JJ Sulin: That's it.
• 24:36
  JJ Sulin: Good luck, man.
• 24:37
  Matt Jacob: Look forward to seeing your work later.
• 24:38
  Matt Jacob: Thanks, builder.
• 24:39
  Matt Jacob: With Reed, what was your last name, Reid?
• 24:42
  Matt Jacob: Reed Havecock.
• 24:43
  Matt Jacob: Reed Havecock, and nice to meet you.
• 24:44
  Matt Jacob: And um, how did you kind of get to this point, basically, where we're sat here paying thousands of dollars for just to be in a room with with some of the best people around?
• 24:56
  Reid Haithcock: Uh it started with hanging around uh punk bands and just photographing shows and music and and friends doing less than legal stuff sometimes.
• 25:06
  Reid Haithcock: Uh and just turning that observational process onto my life, my friends, my family, my dog, my wife.
• 25:15
  Reid Haithcock: Just you know.
• 25:16
  Reid Haithcock: But photographing anything and everything, and now we're finding that down to like looking for the those times when the life and like the structure and normality of life just gets a little squirrely.
• 25:27
  Reid Haithcock: When things aren't quite what you'd expect to come across.
• 25:31
  Reid Haithcock: Like you turn a corner and there's a little girl little girl riding a horse down the street in the suburbs.
• 25:36
  Reid Haithcock: So it's like, oh interesting.
• 25:38
  Reid Haithcock: It's almost like a surreal surreal is definitely part of it.
• 25:44
  Reid Haithcock: Um irony, uh just when you come across something you didn't expect, and it's either a little bit scary or a little bit funny.
• 25:54
  Reid Haithcock: Um and now I'm here in Montana with uh a portfolio between the people who are like, I don't know what to make of this.
• 26:02
  Reid Haithcock: Oh yeah?
• 26:03
  Reid Haithcock: Yeah, yeah.
• 26:03
  Reid Haithcock: Okay.
• 26:04
  Reid Haithcock: And uh so who have you had so far from yesterday?
• 26:07
  Reid Haithcock: I had Brian Scoot Matt yesterday, okay, then Peter Hugo, and then Cole Woolley.
• 26:13
  Reid Haithcock: Cole Woolley.
• 26:14
  Reid Haithcock: Yeah, it was from TIS.
• 26:16
  Reid Haithcock: Yeah, yeah, okay.
• 26:16
  Reid Haithcock: How did they go?
• 26:17
  Reid Haithcock: Uh varied.
• 26:19
  Reid Haithcock: I had some some interesting feedback.
• 26:22
  Reid Haithcock: A little bit of like, I I don't know what to make of this.
• 26:25
  Reid Haithcock: Like, you got you have great images.
• 26:27
  Reid Haithcock: Who was that?
• 26:28
  Reid Haithcock: Uh that was Cole and Brian.
• 26:30
  Reid Haithcock: Okay, yeah.
• 26:31
  Reid Haithcock: I had the same from Cole.
• 26:32
  Reid Haithcock: Yeah, like I some some good advice I did get from Brian was like, go back to the beginning, look at your archive, like go through, do three rolls a day, just see what you have, print out contact sheets, go through and find what's connected within it.
• 26:49
  Matt Jacob: Which is fairly daunting because that's like almost 25 years of yeah, almost back to the not back to the drawing board, but like taking a step back to then get two steps forward.
• 26:59
  Reid Haithcock: Yes.
• 26:59
  Reid Haithcock: So like, and I try to do that, like look at what I've shot over the years and see what connects from years ago to now to what I shoot on this trip.
• 27:10
  Reid Haithcock: Uh and then I had for Peter Hugo, it was like totally different.
• 27:15
  Reid Haithcock: It was like, I like this, this is great, lose this, put this beside this one.
• 27:19
  Reid Haithcock: It's like these are great prints.
• 27:20
  Reid Haithcock: Like, you could put a book together with this.
• 27:21
  Reid Haithcock: Oh well.
• 27:22
  Reid Haithcock: So that's amazing, man.
• 27:23
  Reid Haithcock: Uh it's varied, man.
• 27:24
  Reid Haithcock: We'll see what happens today.
• 27:26
  Matt Jacob: I think that's the the thing I took from yesterday as well, like the the varied uh approach, more than like the I mean I had some common themes, but everyone said it in a completely different way, which is kind of normal.
• 27:39
  Matt Jacob: But I think we're here for that kind of eclectic mix of reviews, right?
• 27:42
  Matt Jacob: So I think, you know, as we talked about breakfast today, like passing out what you kind of want to take from that, not get too deflated by the stuff you may not resonate with.
• 27:53
  Matt Jacob: Yeah.
• 27:54
  Matt Jacob: Um, are you taking any any kind of different approach to the NT reviews or just open book type?
• 27:58
  Matt Jacob: Let's see what happens.
• 28:00
  Reid Haithcock: I think still open book, see what happens.
• 28:01
  Reid Haithcock: Maybe have a refined a little bit of how I talk about it when I meet somebody for the first time.
• 28:05
  Reid Haithcock: Um and I definitely spent last night like re-sequencing everything uh just to see.
• 28:11
  Reid Haithcock: And I think I think that was helpful to come at it with like not fresh eyes, but eyes that are like a little bleary, a little like, oh man, okay, there is stuff I need to rethink.
• 28:21
  Matt Jacob: So yeah, it's almost a trap to come in here think you've got like a complete, not complete body of work, but like something that you feel is ready to go.
• 28:30
  Matt Jacob: Yeah.
• 28:30
  Matt Jacob: Um, which was what I thought, and then to have kind of that just stripped back a bit, you know, yeah, you've still got more work to do, but this is good, this is not kind of aligned with it.
• 28:41
  Matt Jacob: Go go back to drawing board and work more on that.
• 28:43
  Matt Jacob: It's uh it's kind of can be difficult to take.
• 28:47
  Reid Haithcock: But um, but I think one thing that to take away from this is like you know, this is kind of uh you know, this isn't a small deal to come to Chico, but we didn't get here by following everybody's advice we were ever given.
• 28:59
  Reid Haithcock: So we could take and leave.
• 29:02
  Matt Jacob: Great.
• 29:03
  Matt Jacob: Well, good luck.
• 29:03
  Matt Jacob: Look forward to seeing your stuff later.
• 29:05
  Matt Jacob: See you around.
• 29:06
  Matt Jacob: Thanks, man.
• 29:08
  Reid Haithcock: Thank you.
• 29:19
  Matt Jacob: Hester Garrison found you in the library of Chico.
• 29:23
  Matt Jacob: Yeah.
• 29:24
  Matt Jacob: How are you finding it so far?
• 29:25
  Esther Garrison: Uh fantastic.
• 29:26
  Esther Garrison: It's so exciting to meet like amazing photographers and reviewers.
• 29:30
  Esther Garrison: So it's also quite nerve-cracking, you know, to present your work and to get the feedback.
• 29:35
  Matt Jacob: What was the journey here?
• 29:36
  Matt Jacob: Like, how did you end up applying for Chico?
• 29:38
  Esther Garrison: And so I had about Chico the first time last year.
• 29:41
  Esther Garrison: Uh, I guess through Instagram, and then I had two classmates.
• 29:46
  Esther Garrison: I did a master's in back in Spain about photography.
• 29:48
  Esther Garrison: So they were selected.
• 29:50
  Esther Garrison: And of course, seeing you know their experience here, and it was Montana.
• 29:54
  Esther Garrison: So I decided to apply for the second time, and I'm delighted that I was selected.
• 29:59
  Esther Garrison: So it was been part of an American adventure now because Montana has been one of my go-to states.
• 30:05
  Matt Jacob: This is the first time you're here.
• 30:06
  Esther Garrison: Uh, not in the States, but yes, in Montana.
• 30:08
  Esther Garrison: Yes.
• 30:09
  Matt Jacob: And uh tell us about the body of work that you're presenting to the earlier because you've got a few bodies of three projects.
• 30:15
  Esther Garrison: But I think I'm gonna tell you mostly about my main one, which is um a physical uh photo book dummy.
• 30:20
  Esther Garrison: Um, it's called Transsiberia, Genetic Lost City.
• 30:23
  Esther Garrison: And uh the story goes like this.
• 30:25
  Esther Garrison: So I work in sustainability issues like looking after human rights and environment.
• 30:30
  Esther Garrison: My previous employer, uh, a Swedish energy company, uh, sent me to Siberia with a mission to basically question whether it was socially responsible to buy enriched uranium, because my company was buying uranium, to buy enriched uranium from a closed city.
• 30:46
  Esther Garrison: So I have never heard in my life what a closed city was.
• 30:50
  Esther Garrison: So you're tell us what it is.
• 30:52
  Esther Garrison: So the closed cities started back in the cold um during the cold war, back in the 50s under Stalin.
• 30:59
  Reid Haithcock: Uh huh.
• 31:00
  Esther Garrison: Uh, they were created to host uh spots for manufacturing uh nuclear weapons.
• 31:06
  Esther Garrison: So they were secret and you know completely hidden.
• 31:10
  Esther Garrison: So they were hidden to radars, and not even the Soviet population knew of their existence.
• 31:14
  Esther Garrison: So you could take a map back from the USSR and they were not appearing anymore.
• 31:19
  Matt Jacob: Okay.
• 31:20
  Esther Garrison: And also they would have like a code name.
• 31:22
  Esther Garrison: Uh so they would have like always like a number.
• 31:24
  Esther Garrison: So my city is called Krasnoyarsk 45.
• 31:27
  Esther Garrison: Uh not even a Russian national can go there if they want to.
• 31:31
  Esther Garrison: Uh you're only allowed there if you have, for example, like a close relative or you have to go there for work, which was my case.
• 31:37
  Esther Garrison: Uh so I can say that I've been one of the few people on earth that have been able to access one of these closed cities.
• 31:44
  Matt Jacob: So they sent you your company sent you there with the intention of what?
• 31:47
  Matt Jacob: Just to document?
• 31:48
  Esther Garrison: Not to document, but to do like this is the irony of it.
• 31:51
  Esther Garrison: So to do like a human rights impasse assessment to see whether it was socially responsible to buy.
• 31:58
  Esther Garrison: So I was looking after, so my role in the company was to make sure our suppliers comply with environmental and human rights standards.
• 32:06
  Esther Garrison: So before, you know, had been to Colombia, looking at coal and displaced communities.
• 32:11
  Esther Garrison: Uh, I went to Siberia, I went to South Africa.
• 32:14
  Esther Garrison: So I was, you know, doing more like human rights impact assessments.
• 32:17
  Esther Garrison: And now, you know, to be sent to Siberia that you're buying uranium.
• 32:22
  Esther Garrison: And this was interestingly the time when Russia had invaded Crimea.
• 32:26
  Esther Garrison: So this is also part of the hypocrisy of the corporate world, you know.
• 32:30
  Esther Garrison: So this was, you know, you had sanctions, but there was no sanctions on uranium or coal.
• 32:35
  Esther Garrison: So my company was still buying coal and a lot of things from Russia.
• 32:38
  Esther Garrison: Not anymore.
• 32:39
  Esther Garrison: So it took a war basically to for them to stop you know buying uranium from from Russia.
• 32:44
  JJ Sulin: Okay, what do take us take us through the images?
• 32:47
  Esther Garrison: So the the the book is divided into parts.
• 32:49
  JJ Sulin: And this is uh this is a dummy book.
• 32:50
  JJ Sulin: This is a dummy dummy book.
• 32:52
  Esther Garrison: Okay, yeah.
• 32:52
  Esther Garrison: So the the book is divided into two parts.
• 32:54
  Esther Garrison: The first part is about the Trans-Siberian journey.
• 32:56
  Esther Garrison: So there is unfoldable maps where you can see, yes, Soviet red, you know, I look for it.
• 33:01
  Esther Garrison: Uh so you can see where uh uh I didn't do the whole route, but from Mirkus, the lake, uh, to Novosibirsk and then Krasnoyarsk is here.
• 33:09
  Esther Garrison: So I did a kind of a look.
• 33:11
  Esther Garrison: And then so the the first part is about uh we start in Moscow and um I'm showing uh a very different Siberia.
• 33:20
  Esther Garrison: You know, when I uh you ask people what do you think of Saberia?
• 33:23
  Esther Garrison: People think of snowy landscapes, endless, you know, beautiful.
• 33:26
  Esther Garrison: And I'm showing a different one, you know, feeling uh more industrial.
• 33:31
  Esther Garrison: Um and and the first half of the book is uh, you know, you get on and off the train, you know.
• 33:36
  Esther Garrison: And and the whole concept of the first part is that uh when when somebody thinks about a closed city, if you don't know the context, you don't know what to imagine.
• 33:45
  Esther Garrison: You know, you were like, what is it gonna be like?
• 33:47
  Esther Garrison: Chernobyl, something abandoned there.
• 33:50
  Matt Jacob: And what's the feedback been like so far?
• 33:53
  Esther Garrison: The feedback has been very positive.
• 33:55
  Esther Garrison: So I had a review with Daniel Ardold yesterday, he absolutely loved it.
• 33:59
  Esther Garrison: Um some other feedback is being said, well, you know, maybe you need to kind of you know cut it down a little bit, you know, which I accept.
• 34:06
  Esther Garrison: So it's become because it's like comes along, but it's all it was also part of the uh what I wanted to create is this sense of you spend days and days in the train.
• 34:15
  Esther Garrison: So it's kind of you know that that monotony.
• 34:17
  Esther Garrison: So suddenly you find you see uh you see all this, which is like uh blue sky, postcard, uh emptiness, uh um, but really clean.
• 34:27
  Esther Garrison: So it was really like a stark contrast uh with the industrial Siberia, which was kind of more for polluted.
• 34:33
  Esther Garrison: Now the the second part uh hardly contains any people because on purpose, because I wanted to give also that sense of uh isolation and emptiness.
• 34:42
  Esther Garrison: Uh it was actually quite empty, so it's not like I'm I'm hiding things.
• 34:46
  Matt Jacob: So, what are you looking for uh in the reviews here at GCAR?
• 34:51
  Esther Garrison: Well, um in the reviews, I mean, um I'm presenting this book to the publishers, so I want feedback also on you know what could be improved, you know, would they publish this book uh as well?
• 35:04
  Esther Garrison: Um I want to see kind of the the reaction you know to it, you know, whether it they could see this, it would be something that it would be kind of commercially successful, you know, as well.
• 35:13
  Esther Garrison: Yeah.
• 35:13
  Esther Garrison: I mean, in my humble view, I think who doesn't want to know about a forbidden place?
• 35:20
  Matt Jacob: Are there any legal limitations with this in terms of like if this was published, would Russia have a say in it?
• 35:26
  Esther Garrison: Well, I have a very good anecdote on this.
• 35:28
  Esther Garrison: So uh I because I was presenting this book, so this was part of I did all this book in uh in Spain, part of my master's in Spain.
• 35:34
  Esther Garrison: So when I finished this book and I was presenting it in in some of the galleries in Spain, uh that my first presentation, I don't know why.
• 35:42
  Esther Garrison: I thought it would be a very good idea to invite the Russian embassy.
• 35:45
  Esther Garrison: And I really I'm very stubborn.
• 35:50
  Esther Garrison: So I invited them to uh the inauguration.
• 35:53
  Esther Garrison: They didn't come, although I think they sent some spies.
• 35:55
  Esther Garrison: Um but then in my second presentation, I actually managed to get an interview with with the with the second, you know, the the one after the ambassador and the cultural attacher.
• 36:05
  Esther Garrison: So they received me, they bring me, you know, tea, and I'm presenting this, and I'm thinking at the same time and showing this super serious guy.
• 36:14
  Esther Garrison: I'm showing the book and I'm saying, Esther, what are you doing?
• 36:18
  Esther Garrison: You know, presenting this book to them.
• 36:20
  Esther Garrison: And they were like super, you know, like completely emotionless.
• 36:25
  Esther Garrison: And I my idea was to say, Well, I'm presenting this book, people have a lot of questions, which I don't have answers to.
• 36:31
  Esther Garrison: So it would be really good to have like a Russian representative to answer that.
• 36:34
  Esther Garrison: And they said, Well, we've never been to a close city, so we cannot really say anything about this.
• 36:39
  Esther Garrison: But okay, we will come to the event, we will not share the round table with you, but we will come to the event.
• 36:44
  Esther Garrison: So they came to the event, three of them, you know, the the guy and the two two young ladies, uh, and they were sitting in the first row me while I was, you know, doing all this speech and presentation.
• 36:53
  Esther Garrison: And now the when I finished, uh, the uh the president of the Royal Society of Photography in Spain gave war to him.
• 36:59
  Esther Garrison: And this is when you had had the most surreal uh moment.
• 37:03
  Esther Garrison: So this person stands up and basically says that everything I've seen is not really true, and he brings uh literally uh photocopies uh of a beautiful landscape of Siberia and starts showing around to people, basically with a message to say what Esther has shown is ugly Siberia, yeah, and here is a much more beautiful.
• 37:25
  Matt Jacob: This is what we want for foreigners to see.
• 37:26
  Esther Garrison: And you can still travel.
• 37:27
  Esther Garrison: I mean, he was doing his work, you know, he was promoting Russia and then you can and she said you don't have to travel third class in the Trans Siberian.
• 37:34
  Esther Garrison: He he they couldn't understand, you know, why chose third class in Trans Siberian.
• 37:39
  Reid Haithcock: That makes sense.
• 37:40
  Esther Garrison: So that was like a fascinating uh experience, to be honest.
• 37:44
  Matt Jacob: The whole thing sounds a fascinating experience.
• 37:46
  Matt Jacob: So um thank thanks for sharing.
• 37:47
  Matt Jacob: Oh, thank you so much.
• 37:48
  Matt Jacob: Good luck with with the book and the feedback, and yeah, yeah, we'll we'll touch base.
• 37:53
  Matt Jacob: But we've got to go to a review ourselves now, but yeah, thanks so much for sharing.
• 37:57
  Esther Garrison: Thank you.
• 37:57
  Esther Garrison: Thank you so much.
• 37:58
  Esther Garrison: Great.
• 37:58
  Esther Garrison: Those in paradise were given a choice happiness without freedom or freedom without happiness.
• 38:05
  Matt Jacob: We are here with Meryl Davis.
• 38:09
  Matt Jacob: Meryl, how's the Chico experience going for you so far?
• 38:13
  Meryl Davies: Um it's been really great.
• 38:15
  Meryl Davies: I've gotten a lot of uh wonderful feedback and a lot of supportive feedback, which has been uh wonderful.
• 38:23
  Meryl Davies: Um this is my first review.
• 38:25
  Meryl Davies: So I've first ever reviewed.
• 38:26
  Meryl Davies: I've never been to one before, so uh I was wasn't sure what to expect, but uh it's been a really positive experience so far.
• 38:34
  Matt Jacob: Tell us about the the work.
• 38:36
  Matt Jacob: We'll we'll show this on the camera in a minute, but I'm sat over your prints, which uh which look fantastic.
• 38:42
  Matt Jacob: I'm intrigued to hear more about the work itself and the story and how you know to tell us tell us all about it, give us your elevator pitch.
• 38:50
  Meryl Davies: Thank you.
• 38:51
  Meryl Davies: Um so this is uh this body work is called The Shoreline.
• 38:57
  Meryl Davies: Um and it is a project I've been working on for about five years.
• 39:01
  Meryl Davies: Um it's shot on medium format film.
• 39:05
  Meryl Davies: Uh and I have shot it on the beaches of Washington, which is my home state.
• 39:14
  Meryl Davies: Um so most of these are shot around Puget Sound, um, some on the Pacific coast.
• 39:22
  Meryl Davies: And really what I'm looking for uh in these images is the place where the immensity of the water, the immensity of the sky and nature meet humanity, and I wanna explore how my community finds respite at that place because I find a lot of peace there.
• 39:49
  Meryl Davies: Um this project began during COVID um and uh my son was uh in kindergarten in COVID uh the first the first uh year of COVID and we quarantined and uh he had school at home, so we ended up going to the beach a lot or to the park for school, which was really great for us and really great for my son to be able to go outside.
• 40:22
  Meryl Davies: Um I sort of noticed while we were at the beach I noticed other people were finding sort of connections in joy that I was also finding there.
• 40:44
  Meryl Davies: Um and I started to see just the pictures just there and I would have to take them.
• 40:50
  Meryl Davies: And I think for me it is it is when I look at these they um they inspire peace in me and it's helpful for me um because we are surrounded by a lot of unpeaceful imagery um and so and also I want my son to be like to not to also have some peaceful imagery to absorb too and not just um um the media that is out there really right now.
• 41:26
  Matt Jacob: So they're they're wonderful images, Mabel, and uh I really love first of all the colour palette which evokes tranquility in itself.
• 41:37
  Matt Jacob: And there's this observational standpoint you have uh behind people looking out, you know, just seeing watching them, I guess.
• 41:50
  Matt Jacob: You you know, how how long a period did you shoot these over?
• 41:53
  Matt Jacob: And did you did you spend a lot of time just sitting and waiting, or is this more of like go shoot move on?
• 42:02
  Meryl Davies: So this is all um accumulated over several years.
• 42:07
  Meryl Davies: Yeah.
• 42:08
  Meryl Davies: Um and generally I I would always carry my camera with me.
• 42:16
  Matt Jacob: But um what kind of feedback have you had so far from from this?
• 42:22
  Meryl Davies: Um really good.
• 42:23
  Meryl Davies: I I guess uh some of the um the critique has been maybe changed the perspective of it um and added more variety of perspective um maybe different weather patterns too.
• 42:41
  Matt Jacob: So what what by the end of the week, what are you hoping to to get out of it?
• 42:46
  Meryl Davies: Well like I really wanted feedback on the sequencing of it and is this in sequence now.
• 42:54
  Meryl Davies: No, no, because it got all things got moved around and that that's great.
• 43:00
  Meryl Davies: I um because I I was unsure about the sequencing of it anyway.
• 43:06
  Meryl Davies: So um so yeah, sequencing and editing and um I'm kind of isolated and um I guess I was also just hoping to like talk to people a bit about photography and because it's hard it's like I'm in a little bubble like photography bubble at my you know in my life, so it was it's good to talk to people about it.
• 43:33
  Reid Haithcock: Yeah, and stress test the images and yeah viewpoints.
• 43:38
  Reid Haithcock: Well, thank you so much for sharing.
• 43:40
  Matt Jacob: Yeah, thank you for wonderful project and good luck with it.
• 43:44
  Matt Jacob: Thank you very much.
• 43:44
  Matt Jacob: Thanks, Meryl.
• 43:46
  Reid Haithcock: Yeah.
• 43:48
  Matt Jacob: So end of well, getting to the end of day two.
• 43:53
  Matt Jacob: Um we've got a day off tomorrow, so people are now at dinner, and uh, we're in the The conference room.
• 44:00
  Matt Jacob: I'll switch the video around.
• 44:02
  Matt Jacob: We're in the conference room, so everyone having dinner, and uh this is kind of where this also doubles up as a waiting room when we're waiting for reviews for everyone's um all of the the artists and the publishers here putting out books for us to to obviously look through as as we wait.
• 44:21
  Matt Jacob: And uh I'll try and get more footage of the the waiting room.
• 44:26
  Matt Jacob: Uh obviously, I can't get much of the review process, but I'll get more footage of the waiting room on Friday when we're back in here.
• 44:33
  Matt Jacob: Um, we had a talk by Jonathan Levitt, he's uh a wonderful artist.
• 44:39
  Matt Jacob: This is his book here.
• 44:40
  Matt Jacob: We've we've had some great, great talks.
• 44:42
  Matt Jacob: Um, obviously, we've got Marshall's blank notes here, and we've got Rory King's Gumsucker, which I'm gonna hopefully talk to him tomorrow.
• 44:50
  Matt Jacob: Uh so many obviously incredible, incredible artists.
• 44:53
  Matt Jacob: But yeah, we're just um a lot of this is what it's all about.
• 44:58
  Matt Jacob: This this is uh half of what it's all about, at least.
• 45:01
  Matt Jacob: Yeah, we're here for reviews and feedback, but um, you know, we're also here for community, we're here for uh socializing, and uh we're here to uh make lifelong friends and figure out if we can make some connections and uh yeah, see see where it takes us.
• 45:21
  Matt Jacob: So um tomorrow we've got a day off and uh hoping to relax and uh eat some more, drink some more, and um we'll see about karaoke tonight.
• 45:33
  Caitie Moore: Walk?
• 45:33
  Caitie Moore: Should we should we just like walk?
• 45:35
  Caitie Moore: Should we sit?
• 45:36
  Matt Jacob: Should we uh um I'm I'm here with Katie Moore.
• 45:40
  Matt Jacob: Katie Moore, that's that's your name, isn't it?
• 45:42
  Matt Jacob: Kate Katie, give a give us uh uh a little bit of a bio who you who you are and and what you do here at Chico.
• 45:50
  Caitie Moore: All right, well I am the event coordinator here at Chico.
• 45:53
  Caitie Moore: Am I supposed to look over there?
• 45:55
  JJ Sulin: Just look at me.
• 45:56
  JJ Sulin: This is Katie's first little little podcast.
• 46:00
  Caitie Moore: I'm like so nervous.
• 46:01
  Caitie Moore: I'm like, oh my god.
• 46:02
  Caitie Moore: Um I hate being on the side of the camera.
• 46:04
  Caitie Moore: I went to school for photography, so I'm so much.
• 46:07
  Matt Jacob: You have such a great telephone voice.
• 46:08
  Caitie Moore: Thank you so much.
• 46:09
  Caitie Moore: Um this is um my sixth event here at Chico, my fifth year.
• 46:14
  Caitie Moore: Um, and my role essentially is to make sure that the event runs smoothly, you know.
• 46:21
  Caitie Moore: I think that I excel pretty well in communication, I hope.
• 46:25
  Caitie Moore: Um, and so so much of the work that I do is just um communicating and make people feel comfortable before they come here and feel um seen before they come here.
• 46:35
  Caitie Moore: I think oftentimes people are coming from a long distance and um just want them to come here feeling prepared and comfortable.
• 46:43
  Caitie Moore: And then just like with the reviewers, you know, I'm I don't do any of the art direction, um, but I'm like the main point of contact, and in some ways I think I'm like a little bit of like the blood in the heart of Chico.
• 46:54
  Matt Jacob: Yeah, that's a really good description.
• 46:56
  Matt Jacob: I think uh for for those watching and listening, KT is like the backbone of this event.
• 47:00
  Matt Jacob: So like just leading up to it, all of the logistics and the communications.
• 47:04
  Matt Jacob: I think this is the year, this is the most you've ever had in a year in terms of attendees and reviews.
• 47:09
  Caitie Moore: Yeah, this is the biggest event.
• 47:10
  Caitie Moore: Um we have been doing this.
• 47:12
  Caitie Moore: Well, this is the tenth year that Jesse has been doing this.
• 47:14
  Caitie Moore: Um, the first two years for me were post-COVID.
• 47:18
  Caitie Moore: Um, so uh we had I think 40 people, 40 attendees.
• 47:24
  Caitie Moore: This year we have 80.
• 47:26
  Caitie Moore: Um, so with more attendees, you have to bring more reviewers.
• 47:30
  Caitie Moore: Um, and so it just kind of grows exponentially.
• 47:33
  Caitie Moore: We are so happy to have really, I think, exceeded our expectation at this point.
• 47:38
  Caitie Moore: We've our I feel like it's like we have the whole resort, we have this whole room, and that's really what we have wanted to do.
• 47:46
  Caitie Moore: And so it like it feels like we finally like fit in our pants.
• 47:49
  Caitie Moore: You know what I mean?
• 47:50
  Caitie Moore: Like we've had these pants, like the first, the first time it was sort of like it felt really intimate, and like, you know, I think people are really awkward with COVID still, and there was a lot of um, you know, hesitancy around talking, and people were st still coming from distance here, and um, so there was like it was really small, and it, you know, and now we're like in this space where I love seeing people spilling out here, they're on the inside, they're inside talking in front of the fireplace, they're at the bar having a drink, you know, where they're in the hot springs.
• 48:22
  Caitie Moore: So it feels like we've really kind of like gotten to the point where uh we want to be, and hopefully we can continue to sustain the size.
• 48:32
  Caitie Moore: And I it feels like we can, it feels comfortable.
• 48:35
  Matt Jacob: I think it feels right.
• 48:36
  Matt Jacob: I mean, I haven't been here before, but yeah, to to be the fulcrum of that kind of uh community development must be so fulfilling.
• 48:43
  Matt Jacob: But how did you get into this role and into because you I mean photographer in yourself and how did how did this all start for you?
• 48:51
  Caitie Moore: Uh FOMO.
• 48:53
  Matt Jacob: FOMO as a very big driving force for most people, yeah.
• 48:58
  Caitie Moore: Um I spent 10 years working in nonprofit spaces.
• 49:02
  Caitie Moore: Okay.
• 49:02
  Caitie Moore: Um I actually studied photography at SCAD, and uh when I came out of school, my mom was so happy to hear this.
• 49:08
  Caitie Moore: I said, I don't think I'm gonna be a shooter.
• 49:11
  Caitie Moore: And so, you know, trying to figure out what spaces I wanted to be in, and I I really wanted to be in museum gallery spaces.
• 49:18
  Caitie Moore: And I did.
• 49:19
  Caitie Moore: I was really fortunate to have an experience doing that that took me to Cleveland.
• 49:24
  Caitie Moore: Um, I was involved with a Society for Photographic Education here in the US uh and uh did a lot of conference planning.
• 49:32
  Caitie Moore: Um I feel like I again sort of funny metaphor for me.
• 49:35
  Caitie Moore: I feel like I've been wearing big britches the whole time where like I didn't necessarily have I didn't feel like I'd learned those earned those accolades, but I was standing there.
• 49:46
  Caitie Moore: So there was a lot of um imposter syndrome um early.
• 49:51
  Caitie Moore: And I met Jesse while I was working at the Transformer station in Cleveland, Ohio, and uh had moved to Atlanta a year later, kind of during COVID, was sort of between things, and had been seeing all these people that I knew, and I was like, I need to be there.
• 50:06
  Caitie Moore: And so I reached out to him and I said, Can I just help you in some kind of way?
• 50:11
  Caitie Moore: And in my head, I was like, I could be a reviewer, like you know, like he's definitely gonna hire, he's gonna hire me to be a reviewer or whatever.
• 50:19
  Caitie Moore: And he was like, Well, actually, I'm looking for somebody to help run the event, and it was just sort of like perfect timing for the both of us, and um I think it's really kind of amazing because we've worked distance the entire time.
• 50:36
  Caitie Moore: Like we've never lived in the same place.
• 50:38
  Caitie Moore: I'm in Atlanta, he's in Worcester, Ohio.
• 50:41
  Matt Jacob: Do you work on it all year round, or is it just like uh six months of the year?
• 50:43
  Caitie Moore: Okay.
• 50:44
  Caitie Moore: I would say like four or four of them are really intense.
• 50:49
  Matt Jacob: And imagine as it grows, you is gonna be eventually an all-year uh all-year-round thing.
• 50:53
  Matt Jacob: Oh no.
• 50:54
  Caitie Moore: Yeah, you know, well, I I know that for sure.
• 50:56
  Caitie Moore: He's definitely like one of the things that's really exciting about people coming to this event is that once you participate here um at the Chica Review, that he's doing workshops in Maine and Western Massachusetts.
• 51:08
  Caitie Moore: You know, he has the charcoal book club, he has the charcoal publishing, they're going to Paris, they're going to New York Art Book Fair, they're going to ICP, they're going to, you know, um the LA Artbook Fair.
• 51:20
  Caitie Moore: So I would love to be able to participate in those type of things.
• 51:23
  Caitie Moore: Um and I think we're sort of sort of trying to figure out where I fit in that, you know, like sort of leaning on each other's strengths to um to sort of disperse, you know, and and to be able to support him because he is, I mean, he's an incredible person.
• 51:41
  Caitie Moore: He's like a superhuman.
• 51:42
  Caitie Moore: Yeah.
• 51:43
  Matt Jacob: Like I don't know how so much all over the place.
• 51:46
  Caitie Moore: He does.
• 51:46
  Caitie Moore: You know, and he called me And six kids.
• 51:48
  Caitie Moore: Six kids, yeah.
• 51:49
  Caitie Moore: And he called me the other day and he's like, I'm sick.
• 51:51
  Caitie Moore: I feel like an a mortal today, you know, because Yeah.
• 51:56
  Matt Jacob: No, but that's tumbling that he can actually, yeah, he is mortal.
• 51:59
  Matt Jacob: Okay.
• 52:00
  Caitie Moore: It's like he was like, I'm a mortal today.
• 52:02
  Caitie Moore: And I was laughing because he was still like faster than I was.
• 52:06
  Caitie Moore: Like I am still a mere mortal, you know.
• 52:10
  Caitie Moore: Um, but he just has this like incredible ability, you know, and um we've gone pretty close, and I would love to be able to follow him through, you know, um, you know, what comes next and what the future is.
• 52:23
  Caitie Moore: I think what's exciting is that Jesse is interested in pushing the boundaries of like what traditional photography education can't do.
• 52:32
  Matt Jacob: Yeah, you know, and um I feel like traditional photography education is uh is a is dying.
• 52:38
  Caitie Moore: It in some ways it is.
• 52:39
  Caitie Moore: I mean, I think it's expensive for one.
• 52:42
  Caitie Moore: Um and and a lot of I mean, I don't know, it's hard because there's so many different types of schools, right?
• 52:48
  Caitie Moore: But I think that there is an ongoing need, at least that I've heard from people who do teach um or have done workshops.
• 52:56
  Caitie Moore: I think workshops are incredible.
• 52:57
  Caitie Moore: Being able to travel and spend um a weekend or a week with a group of people, sometimes you can learn almost as much as you do an entire semester, sort of in these condensed moments.
• 53:10
  Caitie Moore: Yep.
• 53:11
  Caitie Moore: I feel more real.
• 53:12
  Matt Jacob: And you almost learn from the people around you as much as the person and that's the beauty of this, I think.
• 53:17
  Matt Jacob: There's the pattern.
• 53:18
  Matt Jacob: 100%.
• 53:18
  Matt Jacob: For for attendees that might be wanting to come to Chico or might may not know so much about Chico, how would you kind of invite them into this experience and what do you what could you say to them that they would get out of it?
• 53:32
  Caitie Moore: So I think a lot of things that one of the things that I think people are really excited about, which of course they should be, is the uh the book prize.
• 53:42
  Caitie Moore: Um and so one of the things that we do offer to people who come here is an opportunity, and Jesse will offer uh a publishing contract to them.
• 53:51
  Caitie Moore: And so I think everybody's just like really nervous, and of course they want one, which is great.
• 53:56
  Matt Jacob: But I've already bribed him, it's fine.
• 53:58
  Caitie Moore: Yeah, okay, yeah, yeah, he takes cash.
• 53:59
  Caitie Moore: Yeah, big bills.
• 54:02
  Caitie Moore: But um, you know, I think the mo more important and I think the more pressing thing about this event is networking, um, meeting people.
• 54:13
  Caitie Moore: These are contemporaries.
• 54:15
  Caitie Moore: I mean, I even say like I feel more comfortable going to like, I've never been to Paris Photo, but like I'm like terrified that I would go there and like not know anybody or what to do.
• 54:26
  Caitie Moore: And like when I when you come here, we use the language like you're family now, you're part of the Chico family.
• 54:32
  Caitie Moore: And so I think we could do more with um like uh alumni types of like connect, like doing sort of meets up meetups or whatever.
• 54:39
  Caitie Moore: But what's so awesome, I think, about coming here is that you will run into those people all over the world if you continue to participate, the relationships, um, not only with the reviewers, but with your attendees or your fellow attendees, and um it makes the world feel a bit smaller and gives you a little bit more confidence, and I think that's honestly the most important part of this event is creating connections.
• 55:07
  Caitie Moore: Not everybody lives in a city where you're surrounded by a creative community.
• 55:13
  Caitie Moore: Um we have a woman, this is her shout out, Susan.
• 55:16
  Caitie Moore: Why uh wait, what's she?
• 55:19
  Matt Jacob: I'm just I'm gonna call her Susan.
• 55:22
  Caitie Moore: Yeah, it's her first name.
• 55:24
  Matt Jacob: Susan attendee?
• 55:25
  Caitie Moore: Susan, yeah, she's she's an alumni.
• 55:27
  Matt Jacob: Oh, okay.
• 55:27
  Caitie Moore: And sh this is her third year that she has come.
• 55:30
  Caitie Moore: And um be like, so yeah, no, Susan's amazing.
• 55:40
  Caitie Moore: She's come back three times, so she calls it photocamp.
• 55:43
  Matt Jacob: Photocamp.
• 55:44
  Caitie Moore: And like it's a little cheesy, but this is a big opportunity for people to really connect on the things that we geek out about.
• 55:52
  Caitie Moore: I'm not a big gear head, but like people getting out here and talking about their gear, talking about photographers or movies or music, like sometimes even talking about things that are not even photo related.
• 56:04
  Caitie Moore: Yeah, just are more in yeah, culture is like is more inspiring and will like support your work than um I think you you don't have that opportunity in everyday life.
• 56:16
  Caitie Moore: And so that's what we hope to provide for people is sort of and for me, I care so much about the space that I'm creating that allows that to happen.
• 56:25
  Matt Jacob: Yeah.
• 56:25
  Caitie Moore: So I would say like for me, my number one thing is that people that I'm creating a space that people feel like they can be creative and safe and I don't know, weird and experimental, and you know, like uh sort of expose yourself.
• 56:39
  Caitie Moore: I call this place pretty vulnerable.
• 56:41
  Caitie Moore: Yeah.
• 56:41
  Caitie Moore: Um and I think that being vulnerable is being an artist, you know, and um being able to have a place where people can be vulnerable but also feel safe and supported is like my main goal here.
• 56:55
  Matt Jacob: Well, I think yeah, yeah, I think you've achieved that.
• 56:57
  Matt Jacob: Um thank you for making everyone feel safe.
• 56:59
  Matt Jacob: I think uh the there's this safety within walls that this place brought I mean we've only been here a few days, but you can feel it certainly when you're you're literally on the line, putting your heart on the line for these for these reviews, and actually it's like being seen, being understood by people that are very similar to you or you have a similar outlook, right?
• 57:21
  Matt Jacob: And that's all we're looking for as humans is some connection and some being seen and being understood.
• 57:26
  Matt Jacob: So thanks for providing the space that I I don't know you that well, but I know Chico enough from from leading up to the event, it's just wouldn't be like this without you.
• 57:35
  Matt Jacob: So thank you so much.
• 57:36
  Matt Jacob: Thank you so much for being amazing.
• 57:37
  Matt Jacob: My pleasure, it's great to have you.
• 57:38
  Caitie Moore: Tell me your favourite part so far.
• 57:40
  Matt Jacob: Uh I don't I don't know.
• 57:43
  Matt Jacob: I think I had a really good review today with Brad where he just got everything I was trying to do.
• 57:52
  Caitie Moore: Instantly.
• 57:52
  Matt Jacob: Instantly.
• 57:53
  Caitie Moore: Yeah.
• 57:53
  Matt Jacob: And that feeling is that really got me emotional because I was extremely vulnerable, but he yeah, he just got everything and then gave me really constructive critique.
• 58:03
  Matt Jacob: So I think like one in ten maybe reviews that might really hit how you might like sing from the houses about, but um it I came here for community and and meeting meeting.
• 58:14
  Matt Jacob: Yeah, for sure.
• 58:15
  Matt Jacob: It's just you know, it's a slow burner, but by Friday, Saturday I'll probably come out of it with some great friends.
• 58:20
  Matt Jacob: Yeah.
• 58:21
  Caitie Moore: Can I tell you a funny story?
• 58:22
  Caitie Moore: Please okay, so I talk we talk about vulnerability a lot, and somebody who is not here this year is Sergio.
• 58:30
  Caitie Moore: Um, he comes every year.
• 58:32
  Caitie Moore: Yeah, he makes people cry like 10 out of 10.
• 58:36
  Caitie Moore: Like he is just like to your heart, like guts you.
• 58:41
  Caitie Moore: Um just from from like an emotional standpoint, a sweetness standpoint.
• 58:45
  Caitie Moore: And a couple years ago, I had mentioned to the staff, I was like, Oh, you know, we're so vulnerable here, like it's such a great event.
• 58:52
  Caitie Moore: But by the end of the week, we're just so tired mentally, physically, emotionally.
• 58:57
  Caitie Moore: And I came in the first day, and on each review table, she had put um a box of tissues.
• 59:03
  Caitie Moore: And I was like, and I walked in and I was like, What is that for?
• 59:08
  Caitie Moore: And she was like, Oh, well, you said people were gonna be crying.
• 59:12
  Caitie Moore: And I was like, No, like not like I was like, we're not here to like make people cry, you know?
• 59:18
  Caitie Moore: And so we kind of like joke at the end of the week.
• 59:21
  Caitie Moore: We always have we give out kind of like Photocamp, we give out like awards to people.
• 59:26
  Caitie Moore: So every year we always call like, you know, the the cry baby award, or or like or like you know, uh, whatever the award is, and it kind of goes back and forth between uh Chris McCall and Shayna Lopez.
• 59:38
  Caitie Moore: Oh really?
• 59:38
  Caitie Moore: Well, it's sort of like a joke I think.
• 59:40
  Caitie Moore: Yeah, it's Shayna, you know, but but um Sergio was the first person to make me cry here.
• 59:47
  Caitie Moore: Oh, okay.
• 59:48
  Caitie Moore: You know, in just like a beautiful way, you know, like in a in a tears of appreciation and being seen, and it just sort of felt like that arrow through your heart, you know.
• 59:58
  Caitie Moore: And I think what's so important about this event, I was saying earlier, just like kind of as a side, um, is that working in gallery spaces, spend like months putting together a show, you know, you put it together on the walls, you give people your exhibition opening, but I always felt like hollow with that process.
• 1:00:17
  Caitie Moore: Like I never personally ever felt like the climax.
• 1:00:22
  Caitie Moore: Because you didn't have an interaction with the artist or what why I I don't I I'm still I think I'm trying to unpack that, but I wouldn't like what's about this event, and maybe it goes deeper than that if you want to go into therapy with me a little bit.
• 1:00:36
  Caitie Moore: But um this event and being able to create these connections for everybody here, it it just affects me on such a spiritual level that that those are the like fireworks that I wanted the whole time, you know, and I had a big issue when I was a kid that I always felt like I was I was like, Oh, you're so awesome, you should chat with my friend over here, and they became like best friends, and I was just kind of like FOMO, you know, FOMO, and so I was always the one connecting but not being connected, and it took me a long time to realize that there is sort of power in that, and that is my superpower, and that I'm not alone, I'm not disappointed.
• 1:01:19
  Matt Jacob: So you're kind of in that role now, right?
• 1:01:21
  Matt Jacob: You're connecting everyone here, but well, hopefully we're connecting.
• 1:01:24
  Matt Jacob: I'm connecting too, right?
• 1:01:26
  Caitie Moore: No, but I found a way to connect myself.
• 1:01:28
  Caitie Moore: Got it, right?
• 1:01:29
  Caitie Moore: But I I spent years feeling on the outside while I felt like I was giving a lot to people and not receiving that back.
• 1:01:41
  Matt Jacob: Yeah.
• 1:01:42
  Caitie Moore: I don't get anything from that guy.
• 1:01:45
  Matt Jacob: As Brian skewed him out just like doing a photo bump.
• 1:01:48
  Caitie Moore: I didn't get nothing from that guy.
• 1:01:49
  Caitie Moore: But but I I honestly I get I get so much that it's like um, you know, in like a video game, like you get like five hearts, and like, okay, I get five hearts here, but by the time I leave, I have like eight hearts.
• 1:02:00
  Caitie Moore: You know what I mean?
• 1:02:01
  Caitie Moore: Like it like extends my my life force, and there's something really special about being here and being able to build that community that expands beyond Chico.
• 1:02:11
  Matt Jacob: There's something extremely fulfilling with building communities, and I'm just touching it in my own life as well.
• 1:02:16
  Matt Jacob: But what's your plans tomorrow?
• 1:02:17
  Matt Jacob: Day off tomorrow?
• 1:02:18
  Matt Jacob: No day offs for Katie.
• 1:02:20
  Caitie Moore: I don't know if I can expose where I'm going to Mars.
• 1:02:22
  Caitie Moore: Um no, but I am going to the Chico spa um and I'm getting a massage.
• 1:02:30
  Matt Jacob: Yeah, I might I might go I might get a massage as well.
• 1:02:32
  Matt Jacob: Quick quick word with Brian.
• 1:02:33
  Reid Haithcock: Oh man.
• 1:02:34
  Matt Jacob: Hey dear man, welcome back.
• 1:02:36
  Matt Jacob: Thank you, Katie.
• 1:02:37
  Matt Jacob: Thank you.
• 1:02:37
  Matt Jacob: So good.
• 1:02:38
  Matt Jacob: Uh you're sick, the Chico event?
• 1:02:41
  Matt Jacob: You're kind of a veteran now, getting bored of it.
• 1:02:43
  Matt Jacob: No, it sounds pretty fun.
• 1:02:46
  Bryan Schutmaat: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:02:46
  Bryan Schutmaat: Uh swallow 21, spring in 22.
• 1:02:51
  Bryan Schutmaat: The 21 was a 20 to 20 makeup.
• 1:02:54
  Bryan Schutmaat: 22, 23, 24, 25, 26.
• 1:02:56
  Bryan Schutmaat: What is that?
• 1:02:57
  Bryan Schutmaat: Six years.
• 1:03:00
  Matt Jacob: Um, it's good to see you again.
• 1:03:01
  Matt Jacob: And uh wh why as a reviewer, I'm interested in what the motive is to to do this.
• 1:03:07
  Matt Jacob: I know you're a big kind of connecting with community and giving back.
• 1:03:11
  Matt Jacob: Is is that kind of run deep here, or is it more about connecting with your fellow peers?
• 1:03:17
  Bryan Schutmaat: Uh I think it's a little both.
• 1:03:18
  Bryan Schutmaat: Yeah.
• 1:03:18
  Bryan Schutmaat: It's definitely a fun thing to do.
• 1:03:19
  Bryan Schutmaat: Come hang out with your buds year after year.
• 1:03:22
  Bryan Schutmaat: So I definitely like that aspect, but it's always a pleasure and a delight to see new work.
• 1:03:26
  Bryan Schutmaat: And um yeah, uh we Trespasser we did a book with someone we met here, uh Emiliano, Zeniger and I.
• 1:03:34
  Bryan Schutmaat: Oh yeah.
• 1:03:35
  Bryan Schutmaat: Uh here.
• 1:03:36
  Bryan Schutmaat: Yeah, Paris.
• 1:03:37
  Bryan Schutmaat: So um, yeah, you can find some great stuff and every year there's something surprising and beautiful.
• 1:03:42
  Matt Jacob: How's the sun's second print going?
• 1:03:45
  Bryan Schutmaat: Sound fast, yeah, good, yeah.
• 1:03:46
  Bryan Schutmaat: Yeah, we're happy.
• 1:03:48
  Bryan Schutmaat: Yeah.
• 1:03:48
  Matt Jacob: What's next on the Horizon Feed?
• 1:03:50
  Bryan Schutmaat: For me, I've honestly just been doing a lot of commercial work these days.
• 1:03:53
  Bryan Schutmaat: Yeah.
• 1:03:53
  Bryan Schutmaat: Like doing some brand work and um it's like haven't really been ready to dig right into the next uh serious art project, so doing a little gap, I suppose.
• 1:04:04
  Bryan Schutmaat: Yeah.
• 1:04:05
  Matt Jacob: And then karaoke tonight.
• 1:04:06
  Matt Jacob: What are you gonna say?
• 1:04:07
  Bryan Schutmaat: Not sure.
• 1:04:08
  Bryan Schutmaat: I mean I in the past I've done Lefty Frizzelle, George Strait, tonight.
• 1:04:12
  Bryan Schutmaat: I think I might do Don Williams.
• 1:04:14
  Bryan Schutmaat: Uh there's always Cash and Hank.
• 1:04:17
  Bryan Schutmaat: Um Bankers.
• 1:04:18
  Bryan Schutmaat: Done Radiohead before, Crete, um, what else?
• 1:04:21
  Bryan Schutmaat: Brooks and Dunn.
• 1:04:23
  Bryan Schutmaat: I don't know.
• 1:04:24
  Bryan Schutmaat: There's a lot.
• 1:04:24
  Matt Jacob: What are you doing?
• 1:04:25
  Matt Jacob: Uh I don't know, but we'll try and um yeah, we'll try and record the video of some karaoke tonight.
• 1:04:30
  Matt Jacob: Okay, and just to embarrass a little bit.
• 1:04:32
  Matt Jacob: Good to see you.
• 1:04:34
  Matt Jacob: Thanks, man.
• 1:04:34
  Matt Jacob: Hey everyone, end of another day, and we've got a day off tomorrow.
• 1:04:41
  Matt Jacob: It's uh Wednesday night.
• 1:04:42
  Matt Jacob: Uh midnight.
• 1:04:44
  Matt Jacob: Day two day two of reviews done.
• 1:04:49
  Matt Jacob: Uh I had only two reviews today, and um they were great.
• 1:04:55
  Matt Jacob: I had um Shana Lopez from SF Momer, and Gianluca, and Jen Marco Gamberini, who are from Latte, and they both were um very supportive.
• 1:05:10
  Matt Jacob: Um focus a lot on the the edit sequencing.
• 1:05:14
  Matt Jacob: And I think as we just do the work down each review, it's a little bit more um useful, but a little bit more uh clear in terms of how I should be moving forward there.
• 1:05:29
  Matt Jacob: So um in between the moments we obviously spoke to um people like Katie and a few of the attendees as well, so that was really nice.
• 1:05:38
  Matt Jacob: The weather here has been great.
• 1:05:40
  Matt Jacob: Um I expected a lot of cold, a lot of snow, but we're getting warmth as real springtime weather.
• 1:05:46
  Matt Jacob: And um it's really nice to see people opening up a little bit more, some friendships starting to uh formulate and people sharing their work with each other.
• 1:05:55
  Matt Jacob: So you know, as you go through these formal reviews, there's lots of like in between moments.
• 1:05:59
  Matt Jacob: where people can sit together, look at their work together and we had a few nice moments today of doing that.
• 1:06:06
  Matt Jacob: So um tomorrow's a day also people are going to be doing kind of going down to Yellowstone or going into Livingston, going to this bar, working on their work, again sharing more work.
• 1:06:17
  Matt Jacob: And I'm going to try and go around and speak to a few more attendees.
• 1:06:20
  Matt Jacob: If I support any reviewers, um they they're probably going to keep themselves to themselves, but there's a few on my left I want to kind of get the attention of and uh yeah we'll see how we go.
• 1:06:31
  Matt Jacob: So a nice kind of open day tomorrow I'm gonna also work on my writing and my elevator page and my sequencing but uh yeah definitely mentally kind of fatiguing and uh taking a window karaoke evening tonight I completely forgot any sorry but uh look at I'm um having some feeble and karaoke no I got out of hand it was um I'm gonna hit the hit inside now and uh wishing this doesn't end because it's gonna be so much fun already so I'm looking forward to the next three days and emerging myself even deeper.
• 1:07:34
  Matt Jacob: So hopefully I can give you a little bit more of a deeper insight as I become a little bit more familiar with the people and get to know uh people a little bit better and and uh rather than just shovel a camera microphone in their face and hopefully get uh get a little bit more access for you guys.
• 1:07:51
  Matt Jacob: So see you tomorrow.
• 1:07:53
  Matt Jacob: Morning everyone this is my first video of day what day are we on?
• 1:07:58
  Matt Jacob: We're on day three officially yeah it's like Monday was day one but not really but this is day three it's like day off day yeah we're here with um Matt Cosby Matt Cosby yeah um tell us how your week's been going so far in terms of Chico review and also how you got here like what was the quick story synopsis of your your journey to Chico well so far so good.
• 1:08:21
  Matt Cosby: I've had some good reviews uh close to tears only one time yep but I was I was accounting for that you know I I um I'm here to grow so if people have you know good critiques good notes I'm happy to hear it um so I've had six reviews three on the first day three on the second they both and they all went really well and I met with some really good folks and I've been make making good friends like you Matt I've made some really good um you know introductions and all the work's been amazing I've been looking at a lot of uh participants' work so good yeah um but I got here because I've been a uh editorial photographer for going on 15 years and so I've shot a lot of work for other people and the whole time I've been making personal work on the side but I'm trying to get my work seen by more people than just my wife and my mom and Instagram and Instagram exactly so that's why I'm here because I want my personal work to have a place to live.
• 1:09:16
  Matt Jacob: What's um what's the the work that you're presenting tell us a bit about kind of the the background of your work but more specifically this body that you're you're presenting to the reviews.
• 1:09:25
  Matt Cosby: Sure so I applied with two bodies of work and I um printed out both of them here.
• 1:09:29
  Matt Cosby: So I have both and um when I sit down with a reviewer I'm like hopefully we can you know if you have time we'll do you know both and everybody's been great.
• 1:09:38
  Matt Cosby: Do 10 minutes on one 10 minutes on the other um and everybody talks that's that's you you're cutting cutting it fine like everybody's talking at like 1.5 speed when you listen to a podcast everybody's been really nice in talking very fine.
• 1:09:51
  Matt Cosby: So one of the bodies of work is something I've been working on for 10 years.
• 1:09:55
  Matt Cosby: It's sort of like a tongue-in-cheek look at the American dream and you know I grew up in this country in the 80s when it was like if you do this, you do this, you'll have the white picket fence at the end of the road, you know like and that myth has been busted.
• 1:10:08
  Matt Cosby: And so I'm looking for like a sincere sincere quirky humorous look at the American dream.
• 1:10:15
  Matt Cosby: So I make uh portraits of strangers and sort of like symbolic American roadside attractions and and all that kind of stuff.
• 1:10:24
  Matt Cosby: So that's one project.
• 1:10:25
  Matt Cosby: And that's the stuff I like to shoot all the time when I'm not working that's when I have my camera with me I'm looking for that stuff.
• 1:10:30
  Matt Jacob: Do you juxtapose juxtapose the the myth the the the photos that represent the myth compared to the reality or is it more kind of like a like you said more just tongue-in-cheek comedic look at the the the the busting of the myth?
• 1:10:46
  Matt Cosby: A little bit of both like Hollywood has this like view you know I think people from other countries and stuff they think of America and they think it's all fancy it's all like sparkly and stuff but there's like a lot of lonely parts of America there's a lot of quirky people here and there's a lot of things that aren't polished.
• 1:11:02
  Matt Cosby: And so that's the stuff I really like.
• 1:11:03
  Matt Cosby: Because like I grew up in the in the uh northeast and it's like all lighthouses and like lobster men and that's really beautiful and beautiful sunsets but I like the people like the fishermen like the grittiness of the of the place.
• 1:11:14
  Matt Cosby: So I'm looking for that you know the like the real shit.
• 1:11:17
  Matt Cosby: Yeah and I if I can find a juxtaposition some humor and that that's what I find like my work's more successful.
• 1:11:22
  Matt Cosby: So that's one project and the other project's very very different I got um I got access to this family in Wyoming and I'm from the Northeast so I have this obsession with the West because I didn't grow up there.
• 1:11:33
  Matt Cosby: But this family um a nephew and an uncle they took over their grandfather's ranch who passed away suddenly and so now all this pressure for them they have to take care of like 800 black Angus cows and they move them over over the course of a year.
• 1:11:47
  Matt Cosby: 800?
• 1:11:48
  Matt Jacob: Yeah with one family and one family that's crazy.
• 1:11:52
  Matt Cosby: And they have helpers but it's really just the uncle and the nephew and so they let me hang out with them and I get to stay with them and crash at their camp.
• 1:11:59
  Matt Cosby: I stay at the horse hotel where it's basically just like you put your horse you tie your horse up and then above there's a bunk bed and it's like a little hospital mattress.
• 1:12:08
  Matt Cosby: And that's like as fancy as they get but I love just being there with them.
• 1:12:11
  Matt Cosby: I don't want to stay at a fancy hotel.
• 1:12:13
  Matt Cosby: I'd rather be with them and uh be in the trenches with them.
• 1:12:16
  Matt Cosby: So I am basically it's like about you know loss of the family member but it's also this the new guard of ranching um and it's so different from my thing but it's like still Americana.
• 1:12:28
  Matt Cosby: Yeah there's like a little bit of that.
• 1:12:30
  Matt Cosby: But what's interesting I think for me is like I've shot so much color work but for this ranching story it's all black and white and that's a totally new thing for me so stripping away the color so it's more about gesture and light and yeah so that that's kind of where I'm at.
• 1:12:44
  Matt Jacob: What are you hoping to get out of this week which is kind of it's a big week I mean the amount just the sheer amount of people to I mean it's a good reviewer to attendee ratio but you know everyone you know put the book thing aside because everyone wants to have a book what else are you hoping to to get from the the review specifically or or the week overall well with my 10 year project I'd like to know if I'm close to being done that would be for a good starter like yeah do another 10 years.
• 1:13:12
  Matt Cosby: Yeah you're just getting going right um I'd like to know if the 10 year project is like needs some things added or if I'm getting close to being you know being able to show it.
• 1:13:20
  Matt Cosby: And then with the black and white ranching work it's such a shorter thing that I'm wondering and it's it's a 2,000 miles away from where I live so I'm wondering if people are seeing what I'm seeing.
• 1:13:31
  Matt Cosby: Is it something that they think I could should continue.
• 1:13:34
  Matt Cosby: I think I will continue it even if they were like no it sucks.
• 1:13:36
  Matt Cosby: I'd still I love doing it so I'd have to continue but I'm wondering if these people who have seen so much work over their careers if they think I'm onto something and so far so good.
• 1:13:46
  Matt Jacob: People have been like yeah keep it up keep going cool Matt thanks so much for uh for joining to me good luck with everything and we'll we'll see you later appreciate you money and we're roommates we're yeah we are we're next door neighbors hey guys so uh we're in Livingston right now and uh it's a beautiful town but it's unseasonably hot sure we can see the uh temperature gauge up there and the opportunity bank but it's 25 degrees Celsius which in the middle of March in this part of the world is is strange so we're enjoying the sun and uh everyone's doing their own thing today so it's kind of like a a disparate environment um today which is which is cool everyone's some people are going for massage some people are hiking some people going to Livingston and um just talking to whoever I can bump into so um had a few conversations with people on the bus over here um didn't record anything but by the time we get back I think um there'll be a few more people around and I can sequester a group of a group of people I think there'll be some work sharing and I'm getting an informal review later as well so uh watch this space but yeah I just thought I'd show you Livingston for those watching and uh it's a beautiful town for anyone who who does come to this state Montana um Livingston is is one of those quaint historic and and beautiful towns that has a lot of really cool local culture a lot of art here um a lot of great coffee shops good restaurants and uh lovely people so yeah speaking of which we're about to go for coffee now and I will speak to you soon either on the on the bus home um we're grabbing a shuttle it's about 30 minutes from from Chico and uh yeah I'll speak to you maybe on the bus or um suddenly later on when we get back to Chico hot springs.
• 1:15:57
  Matt Jacob: I'm here with Tony Terinos we're back from Livingston we had a a nice lunch at Livingston now just kind of catching up with everyone you've had a quiet day today just chilling out super quiet got acclimated to the altitude yes and have problems with the altitude so it's nice to finally feel like myself.
• 1:16:16
  Tony Chirinos: You had some informal reviews today I did I had two of them and they went well yeah it went well you know it's it's really nice that they allow that to happen that you can actually ask somebody for a review that's not on the list that you got so that's really I think that's a deal breaker actually I think if we were restricted to the 10 that they give us it would I mean obviously it'd still be great but the fact that we can probably get another 10 you know out in in between moments is so so great.
• 1:16:42
  Tony Chirinos: I mean I've gotten three more than yeah yeah yeah tell us about uh how you how you got here because as as a scholar um congratulations for getting getting scholarship um tell us about the the body of work or the bodies of work that you're you're presenting that kind of got you that scholarship yeah so the the body of work that I'm presenting is the title of it's Cox and uh it's about fighting roosters in an island called San Andres it's a Colombian island that is on the coast um of Central America very close to Nicaragua and so they have a very rich tradition of cock fighting and so one of the reasons why I did it is because I'm Latino and we're associated to this subculture so tight that a lot of people don't want to deal with it and so I said I have to make make it a challenge.
• 1:17:39
  Tony Chirinos: Yeah I have to challenge myself to see what I can make out of this because I've seen a lot of different projects and it's more about you know in color bloody you know death and all that kind of stuff and I really didn't want to do that.
• 1:17:54
  Tony Chirinos: So for me the project is more about the taking care of the birds and the grooming of the birds to prepare them for war.
• 1:18:03
  Matt Jacob: Just like the ritual of preparation.
• 1:18:05
  Tony Chirinos: The way that I see it is sort of a samurai where they're you know ironing their kimono and and they get a haircut and they're sharpening their blades before they go out to battle.
• 1:18:17
  Tony Chirinos: So that's that's how I associated the project.
• 1:18:20
  Tony Chirinos: And obviously you know the people that handle the birds and the culture of the of the island all have to do with the project.
• 1:18:28
  Tony Chirinos: Yeah.
• 1:18:28
  Matt Jacob: And what was the approach to to do this project?
• 1:18:31
  Matt Jacob: How how long how many trips over there and was it more of like an observational standpoint?
• 1:18:37
  Matt Jacob: I mean we're showing I haven't seen the this project yet but we'll be showing on the screen now.
• 1:18:42
  Tony Chirinos: And I I'm sure I'll see it later but give us anything so so it started because of my dad of my father and um he was a storyteller.
• 1:18:50
  Tony Chirinos: He never read to us in bed.
• 1:18:53
  Tony Chirinos: So he after dinner he would tell us these stories growing up in Cuba.
• 1:18:58
  Tony Chirinos: Okay.
• 1:18:58
  Tony Chirinos: And so one of the stories that he would come back to is him dealing and participating with these cockfights.
• 1:19:06
  Tony Chirinos: And I didn't believe him I was in middle school and some of the stories that he would tell were fantastical and so I didn't believe half of the stuff he said when he came to this this story.
• 1:19:21
  Tony Chirinos: And I participated in cockfighting for two years before I even introduced the camera.
• 1:19:32
  Tony Chirinos: So I really wanted to learn okay m all of my work if you see all of my work uh 80% research 20% photography.
• 1:19:42
  Tony Chirinos: So I really dive myself into what I'm doing.
• 1:19:46
  Tony Chirinos: And so that's what I did with this project and and um I learned a lot.
• 1:19:51
  Tony Chirinos: Yeah I'm sure how many years was it shot over?
• 1:19:55
  Tony Chirinos: So seven years of worth of work and I used to go during uh the spring uh I'm sorry during summer and during the winter break.
• 1:20:06
  Tony Chirinos: I teach so um so those are the times that I would go what are you uh hoping to get out of this week uh a contract with with a book published with a book published how's that going um well there's there's two people that want me to send them um okay a PDF of 150 images so 150 yeah that's big yeah so I think they're very interested in doing it.
• 1:20:33
  Tony Chirinos: Cool good for you yeah so we'll see yeah I mean until I don't see it in my hand published then I don't believe it.
• 1:20:40
  JJ Sulin: Yeah yeah yeah yeah well best of luck is so great to meet you and I look forward to seeing the book.
• 1:20:46
  JJ Sulin: Thank you.
• 1:20:53
  Matt Jacob: These are all quite dark as well.
• 1:20:56
  Hannah Edelman: My prints are really dark too so I I forgot who oh I was with Brian was coming yesterday in the meetings and I had my flashlight like out like this because it was so dark and I'm like shining.
• 1:21:09
  Matt Jacob: Yeah lesson learned with the prints for sure.
• 1:21:11
  Hannah Edelman: No no no I mean I love darkness you just need it's tough you have to be outside yeah you have to like I love the dark I don't think they're they don't look like you printed they were printed I think the blacks they're they're not intended to be that crunchy but um I like it I love it like it's that's so it's kind of how to make those types of images work in the set and I but not in a it's just this is now it's like this is a face of important to be aware that people are gonna think that I think it's important this is a feeling like I this is finished dinner on what day are we on?
• 1:22:35
  Matt Jacob: Thursday day three I don't know what day day off middle middle of the Mahump day.
• 1:22:40
  Matt Jacob: Um I'm here with Bobby Barbaric did I get that right you did I did that right um Bobby uh it's good to good to have you here for a conversation right and tell us why you're here and uh how the Chico experience has gone for you so far.
• 1:22:54
  Matt Jacob: Um I'll start with the second one it's phenomenal it's um much more um this it says something about what I expected it's much more supportive and constructive than I thought it would be like I can mean it really quite intimidated.
• 1:23:12
  Matt Jacob: Yeah and actually when I was listening to the first speaker I think it was was it Janet no the first speaker was Peter Hugo it was Peter yeah okay yeah so it was during Janet's talk yeah and then one moment I was like what the fuck am I doing here I felt like that pretty much my whole photography career.
• 1:23:30
  Matt Jacob: Yeah but this just kind of exaggerates that um but why I'm here is because I I have I have like multiple personal projects on the go and you're just by yourself all the time and you're just I'm just sitting like masticating on my own ideas and I I don't know if they have any legs or like everybody needs an editor.
• 1:23:50
  Matt Jacob: So and Instagram is not that and Instagram's not that Instagram is horseshit and um so yeah I really I wanted support and I wanted some um options some direction some like a little validation maybe um or some like like go back to bed kind of thing like what are you doing?
• 1:24:09
  Matt Jacob: Like whatever I I just feel like I'm in this like nebulous spear by myself.
• 1:24:13
  Matt Jacob: Have you got any of that so far?
• 1:24:14
  Matt Jacob: How many reviews have you had five?
• 1:24:15
  Matt Jacob: Um five uh and I had two like uh like informal ones yeah yeah how they've gone fantastic all of them the the the fascinating thing for me has been um they they see your blind spots you know like like or like the the thing that I I that the thing that I think that other people don't see but it's still there like I know it's still there but like maybe they won't see it you know that's just that's exactly my experience from the first day especially like and then everything they said it was like yeah I knew that I wish you I just was hoping you wouldn't see it.
• 1:24:47
  Matt Jacob: Thanks Carolina Fuck off like oh I gotta go back and this is how gonna take how long?
• 1:24:54
  Matt Jacob: That's like my question was how long do I need to keep going with this for can I just print it now um tell us tell us about the body are you so you're presenting two bodies of work or do you brought it from turning into two it you know what I did I did everything right I'm type A Virgo like there's a way to do things there's a right way I'm gonna check all the boxes and then I'm then I'm gonna be the best you know like that's that's the trajectory that I'm on.
• 1:25:19
  Matt Jacob: Yeah it's not like that it's like that um so I did like I I wrote the elevator pitch and I wrote like like here's all the things and like this is the sequence and this is how it is and then uh Carolyn Drake was my first person and she's like she looked at one she had pulled out like 10 that were interesting to her and then she pulled out one and she's like what is this?
• 1:25:41
  Matt Jacob: And I was like like that's one you're not really supposed to focus on Carolyn.
• 1:25:45
  Matt Jacob: You're supposed to look at the other one.
• 1:25:47
  Matt Jacob: It's just a filler so yeah it was it's stuff like that.
• 1:25:51
  Matt Jacob: Um it just feels really honest and unauthentic which is um the best you can hope for for for people looking at your work.
• 1:25:59
  Matt Jacob: There's been a couple that have been like huh like like totally out totally unexpected what they might say like talking about like texture or like presentation and stuff like something Is that Tim uh no it was um uh Paul Mokley Oh okay yeah we had a big conversation about that um and so and but as an artist those are things that like you eventually have to think about and I I'm not even I hadn't even gotten there yet and I'm like but but thinking about that sort of transforms how you make it if you are also at the same time kind of thinking about like what would I do with this but in my Virgo brain like I'm not at that step yet but maybe if I start thinking about it now then maybe maybe it will open up the work in different ways which which is like the outcome of all of this.
• 1:26:42
  Matt Jacob: It's opening up the work in different ways.
• 1:26:43
  Matt Jacob: So no my no it's not done.
• 1:26:45
  Matt Jacob: No I'm not getting published tomorrow what's the work about I have work to do.
• 1:26:53
  Matt Jacob: Um it is um I have had a history of dissociative disorder and in the last couple of years I've gone about doing some really significant healing.
• 1:27:03
  Matt Jacob: So you want to hear my elevator pinch my perfect elevator pinch word for word please it is an intimate study of dissociation I can't listen to this I know go and reattachment through nature.
• 1:27:16
  Matt Jacob: That's it that's it's my elevator through nature.
• 1:27:19
  Matt Jacob: Through nature yeah yeah so in healing um I found this most significant healings or moments of healing came when I uh recognized like I I would be out in nature and feel this like sense of peace and safety.
• 1:27:42
  Matt Jacob: Um and I honestly in my life I've never experienced that before and so when I felt that I would take a picture because I've always metabolized my emotions through photography and writing.
• 1:27:51
  Matt Jacob: But in my later life more through more so through photography.
• 1:27:56
  Matt Jacob: And um so it just it just made sense For me to take a picture of this new feeling.
• 1:28:01
  Matt Jacob: Like I didn't, I didn't know what this was.
• 1:28:03
  Matt Jacob: And doing that kind of incorporates that into my into my body.
• 1:28:06
  Matt Jacob: And then as I like, I wasn't intending to make anything out of it.
• 1:28:11
  Matt Jacob: And then as I looked back, I'm like, oh, this is kind of this is a neat story.
• 1:28:15
  Matt Jacob: Like this this is kind of in my brain linear.
• 1:28:19
  Matt Jacob: It's not.
• 1:28:20
  Matt Jacob: Side note, it's not.
• 1:28:21
  Matt Jacob: Um but yeah, it like that's that it's it's a it's a healing journey, it's a personal, personal journey through a mental health struggle.
• 1:28:30
  Matt Jacob: Um Jesse said, like moments of sublimity, like um like you just have this sublime moment and you need to make a photo of it.
• 1:28:39
  Matt Jacob: And that's like when you draw it down, that's what it is.
• 1:28:43
  Matt Jacob: I was looking at it from this like broader scope, and in in like in a broader context, it would it applies to our dissociation from nature and why we're so fucked up.
• 1:28:51
  Matt Jacob: We always I think I'm getting that theme from a lot of attendees here.
• 1:28:55
  Matt Jacob: Yeah, we try and in input so much meaning and layers into the work, and a lot of a lot of the work can just speak for itself for for what it is.
• 1:29:03
  Matt Jacob: Yeah, but I'm interested to see it.
• 1:29:05
  Matt Jacob: Um John and Jesse both said don't overthink it.
• 1:29:07
  Matt Jacob: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:29:08
  Matt Jacob: Yeah.
• 1:29:08
  Matt Jacob: So cool.
• 1:29:09
  Matt Jacob: And you're show we're showing it tonight, so or you're you're gonna display some of it tonight.
• 1:29:13
  Matt Jacob: I am yeah, I'm excited.
• 1:29:15
  Matt Jacob: Me too.
• 1:29:15
  Matt Jacob: Thanks, Bobby.
• 1:29:16
  Matt Jacob: Thanks, Matt.
• 1:29:17
  Matt Jacob: It's great to meet you and um looking forward to seeing the work.
• 1:29:19
  Matt Jacob: I'll look forward to more conversations.
• 1:29:23
  Matt Jacob: Here with Marshall.
• 1:29:24
  Matt Jacob: Good to see you again, man.
• 1:29:25
  Matt Jacob: We had the pleasure of talking, I don't know when, October, when Black Notes came up.
• 1:29:31
  Matt Jacob: Yeah.
• 1:29:31
  Matt Jacob: Um this is your sixth year, Chico.
• 1:29:36
  Marshall To: I I don't I don't see, I think it's my seventh, but I'm not entirely sure.
• 1:29:41
  Matt Jacob: Tell us like you you're you're like the the glue that holds every day together here.
• 1:29:45
  Matt Jacob: Tell us tell tell us your role.
• 1:29:48
  Marshall To: Um pretty much, I think what Jake said was I'm the fixer.
• 1:29:52
  Marshall To: The fixer.
• 1:29:53
  Marshall To: The fixer.
• 1:29:54
  Marshall To: When when something goes outside of the straight line, then I help out.
• 1:30:00
  Marshall To: Yeah.
• 1:30:01
  Marshall To: Pretty much.
• 1:30:01
  Marshall To: Yeah.
• 1:30:02
  Matt Jacob: And you you've seen this uh event grow, I guess, over six or seven years.
• 1:30:07
  Matt Jacob: What does it mean to you now as an alumni, an artist that's had a book published, you know, going through the whole process yourself?
• 1:30:16
  Matt Jacob: What does it mean to come back here every year?
• 1:30:18
  Matt Jacob: Come on.
• 1:30:19
  Marshall To: Um, honestly, it means it means everything.
• 1:30:21
  Marshall To: I think that I think that there's just such a responsibility for you know helping the like people that are going through what you went through to like help them through it, and then also inspire them.
• 1:30:35
  Marshall To: I think that uh sometimes you can get to it can get difficult through, you know, like a week of of of reviews and they're everyone's confused.
• 1:30:44
  Marshall To: Yeah, you know, so yeah, it's very very interesting.
• 1:30:49
  Matt Jacob: Jesse Lenz just uh wearing sandals, uh it's been warm today.
• 1:30:55
  Matt Jacob: Um yeah, cool man.
• 1:30:57
  Matt Jacob: So it's so good to to have met you in person and and thanks for being such a legend of the space.
• 1:31:02
  Matt Jacob: You really like I was speaking to this uh speaking about this to Katie the other day.
• 1:31:07
  Matt Jacob: This event relies on people like you to just be warm and welcoming.
• 1:31:12
  Matt Jacob: And I think with 80 people here, 80 attendees this year, it's even more important, like talked about responsibility, but even more important just to provide people with someone not to cry on, but just like give put an arm around them.
• 1:31:25
  Marshall To: I mean, it's so new for everyone.
• 1:31:28
  Marshall To: Yeah, I mean, even when some legends walking through this space as we talk.
• 1:31:37
  Marshall To: It feels so weird.
• 1:31:42
  Marshall To: Yes.
• 1:31:42
  Marshall To: Oh please.
• 1:31:46
  Matt Jacob: Uh that's it.
• 1:31:47
  Matt Jacob: I just wanted to say hi man.
• 1:31:49
  Matt Jacob: Um you weird tonight.
• 1:31:50
  Matt Jacob: This is like an open, I don't even know what to call it, but peer review.
• 1:31:54
  Matt Jacob: This is like a a really interesting part of the review because you can't really comprehend 80 people's bodies of work in in but it's it's such a cool thing to go around and finally see.
• 1:32:07
  Matt Jacob: I haven't met all of the attendees here yet.
• 1:32:10
  Matt Jacob: So it's just nice to see see people's work and hopefully get people noticed.
• 1:32:14
  Marshall To: It is, it's it's like um it's a it's different because people can kind of relax.
• 1:32:20
  Marshall To: You know, they they've already gone through two two days of reviews.
• 1:32:24
  Marshall To: Yeah, so with with that, and then you know, having karaoke night and and uh you know a free day, everyone can kind of like reset and then put their work out again and put that shining armor on, just but but like a little bit more nicked, yeah, you know, but it's more endearing that way, yeah.
• 1:32:44
  Marshall To: And like they're more everyone's more open, I think.
• 1:32:47
  Matt Jacob: Um well if you're I I know you're not officially reviewing, but you do you do um generally you buy it?
• 1:32:54
  Matt Jacob: I mean, I want you to look at my work and review it, right?
• 1:32:56
  Matt Jacob: And I'm sure you've you've been asked by many people, what are you looking for?
• 1:32:59
  Matt Jacob: We we talked about it just off camera here, um touching upon interesting conversation.
• 1:33:04
  Matt Jacob: What are you really looking for?
• 1:33:05
  Matt Jacob: What what cut what is what is the spark that you you would see from someone's work?
• 1:33:13
  Marshall To: That's a really hard question.
• 1:33:15
  Matt Jacob: Well, we talked about um creating for yourself, maybe not not always knowing what you're making at the time, but you realizing the kind of deeper meaning behind behind that, and it's needed in rather than like shooting something that's a little bit too obvious, maybe, or too too clear, because we're competing with so many other people, and we just want meaning and we just want something personal and intimate.
• 1:33:39
  Marshall To: Yeah, I mean so many people are after success in this world, and unfortunately in this in the photo book industry, it you know, success can mean very different things.
• 1:33:50
  Marshall To: And I've learned through experience that success for me was really just having dinner with people, like having a like creating something in order to be somewhere and then having dinner with them.
• 1:34:01
  Marshall To: You know, it's success isn't always monetary and and like it has to mean something more than than like it has to be intangible, it has to be because if we're you know, but the photo business is not a lucrative business unless you're in the commercial world.
• 1:34:19
  Marshall To: So there has to be something more, otherwise search deeper, right?
• 1:34:26
  Marshall To: Um and that that's that's not like a knock to anyone, but it's like we're we're all here because we're like all open bleeding hearts.
• 1:34:35
  Marshall To: And we're we're we're hoping that our hearts don't get broken, but that's exactly what needs to happen.
• 1:34:42
  Matt Jacob: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:34:43
  Marshall To: Right?
• 1:34:43
  Matt Jacob: Yeah, it felt yeah.
• 1:34:45
  Matt Jacob: Well, how's um blank notes been since we last spoke?
• 1:34:51
  Marshall To: The I mean the support has been amazing, and you know, doing this for so many years, I I felt like I was kind of campaigning, you know, for for most of the thing.
• 1:35:01
  Marshall To: Exactly, right?
• 1:35:02
  Marshall To: So no, but it's like was there relief?
• 1:35:05
  Marshall To: There was there was lots of there was lots of relief.
• 1:35:08
  Marshall To: There was you know, I'd I'd moved on from the project, you know, before it was done, and then it's interesting seeing it done physically and then seeing the reactions from it.
• 1:35:18
  Marshall To: And and um I'd been telling a lot of different people that it you know everything's just extra at this point because you know it's everything that it's not necessarily everything I'd hoped for, but it's everything I could ever imagine, I guess.
• 1:35:34
  Marshall To: You know, or sorry, I might have meant that the other way around where it's like, you know, where I imagine like great success and like just money flying around everywhere um and then people just asking me to do lots of stuff, you know.
• 1:35:48
  Marshall To: Doesn't quite work that way.
• 1:35:50
  Marshall To: No, not at all.
• 1:35:51
  Matt Jacob: But it gets you in the room with the people you want to be in a room with.
• 1:35:53
  Marshall To: Yeah.
• 1:35:54
  Marshall To: Yeah.
• 1:35:54
  Matt Jacob: That's that's your definition of success.
• 1:35:57
  Marshall To: Yeah, especially being older now and seeing people go through it and having you know, seeing people be really disappointed with how it didn't really meet their expectations.
• 1:36:08
  Marshall To: Um you know, uh definitely learned from that and and like yeah, I'm I'm very appreciative of anything now that comes my way.
• 1:36:18
  Matt Jacob: Yeah, well well deserved, man.
• 1:36:20
  Marshall To: Thank you.
• 1:36:20
  Matt Jacob: Um it's great to finally meet you and thanks for being such a legend of this space.
• 1:36:25
  Marshall To: I'm glad to see that you know it's not all just the makeup.
• 1:36:28
  Matt Jacob: Yeah.
• 1:36:29
  Matt Jacob: Well, m most of it is makeup and good lighting.
• 1:36:35
  Matt Jacob: Or I thought there was a reader behind that.
• 1:36:37
  Matt Jacob: He's taking he's taking a piss out of the podcast we did a few months ago where he's turning up like half hung over off a 16-hour shift or whatever it was with the with your boom microphone.
• 1:36:49
  Marshall To: I was the ghost in the book.
• 1:36:52
  Matt Jacob: Right?
• 1:36:52
  Matt Jacob: I we seem to forget this was Marshall's first video first podcast.
• 1:36:56
  Matt Jacob: He did first first video on anyway.
• 1:36:58
  Matt Jacob: No one cares.
• 1:37:00
  Matt Jacob: No one cares.
• 1:37:00
  Matt Jacob: Yeah, we talked about this, no one cares about you.
• 1:37:02
  Marshall To: No, yeah, that that that's fair.
• 1:37:05
  Matt Jacob: I don't mean that in a in a but we were just talking about like no one one thing I've learned is that no one actually cares about you you, but they care about what you have to say.
• 1:37:13
  Marshall To: Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:37:13
  Marshall To: There's a there's a fine line in in that difference.
• 1:37:16
  Marshall To: Well, and like what people have to say sometimes is more interesting than who they are, definitely.
• 1:37:21
  Matt Jacob: But you still gotta make them care, you still produce the work to make them care about what you're gonna say.
• 1:37:26
  Marshall To: Yeah, and and I think that that's that's the where the responsibility lies in making work, especially nowadays, because there's not much monetary incentive.
• 1:37:34
  Marshall To: Very few people are financially successive, successful in this business.
• 1:37:39
  Marshall To: So, you know, that's that's gotta be the next best thing.
• 1:37:44
  Marshall To: I'd hope so.
• 1:37:47
  Marshall To: Good luck, everyone.
• 1:37:48
  Marshall To: Good luck, Godspeed.
• 1:37:50
  Marshall To: Thanks, Marshall.
• 1:37:52
  Marshall To: Cheers, man.
• 1:37:57
  Hannah Edelman: I I have never printed this for Matt's.
• 1:38:00
  Hannah Edelman: Um, but yeah.
• 1:38:10
  JJ Sulin: Okay, we're just wrapping up day three.
• 1:38:12
  JJ Sulin: The day off we've just been doing.
• 1:38:15
  Matt Jacob: Um what have we been doing?
• 1:38:18
  Matt Jacob: Uh peer review for everyone putting their work out and basically looking at everyone's stuff.
• 1:38:28
  Matt Jacob: There's like 80 people.
• 1:38:29
  Matt Jacob: Uh, I thought it was 65 attendees, but there's actually 80.
• 1:38:34
  Matt Jacob: And uh yeah, just trying to like absorb everyone's work here has been overwhelming to say the least, and there's just so many incredible pieces of work and bodies of photography that people have obviously you know worked hard to to to put together, to curate, to present.
• 1:38:56
  Matt Jacob: So uh yeah, it's been really good to see everyone's work.
• 1:39:01
  Matt Jacob: There's really some incredible artists to watch out for here for sure.
• 1:39:05
  Matt Jacob: So uh yeah, like uh we're wrapping up now.
• 1:39:09
  Matt Jacob: We're getting gonna get an early night tonight because last night was a little bit late, one too many bids, and um another big day tomorrow.
• 1:39:19
  Matt Jacob: So next two days we've got multiple keynote speeches again, uh lectures, and then back-to-back reviews for the next few days, and um again as much socializing as we can we can, as much meeting people and meeting them where they are, and understanding who they are as people and who they are as artists, and um just broadening broadening in the depth of a variety of art and uh and and expressionism and voices.
• 1:39:55
  Matt Jacob: So yeah, it's it's wonderful.
• 1:39:58
  Matt Jacob: Hey guys, uh checking in for the end of day three.
• 1:40:04
  Matt Jacob: Um I wish I could give you guys more to be honest.
• 1:40:08
  Matt Jacob: Uh I uh I'll be I'll be honest with you, I'm finding it difficult to I don't know, throw a camera and microphone in people's faces and disrupt the rhythm.
• 1:40:17
  Matt Jacob: Like I'm not here for this, right?
• 1:40:20
  Matt Jacob: And they're not here to be interviewed.
• 1:40:22
  Matt Jacob: Um that being said, uh I I you know we had a nice lot of conversations with um incredible artists, whether they're on the reviewer side or the attendee side, and uh a lovely evening just seeing everyone's work and having some deeper conversations as we all uh continue to get to know each other.
• 1:40:41
  Matt Jacob: So um I just had a lovely conversation with Harrison Miller, who is like a a a therapist for artists, and he really kind of gets the the struggles that the attendees have coming here, putting their reviewers on pedestals, not really kind of um not really knowing where they might be accepted and might not be accepted, and understanding that we all have a desire to be liked, whether it's uh for our work or for ourselves, and um he gets that he's been through this process, and hopefully tomorrow or so tomorrow is Friday.
• 1:41:17
  Matt Jacob: Um last day is Saturday.
• 1:41:19
  Matt Jacob: Uh tomorrow or Saturday, I will definitely try and get Harrison in front of the the camera because he has so many um salient things to to say, especially for budding artists and budding uh photographers wanting to make books or wanting to be featured and be validated and be seen.
• 1:41:39
  Matt Jacob: So um that's where we kind of left it.
• 1:41:42
  Matt Jacob: And I'm just it's exhausting, uh, I won't lie.
• 1:41:46
  Matt Jacob: But it's uh I just want to embrace these moments, these experiences that uh I've been having without worrying too much about doing this, other than talking to you guys at the beginning and end of each day.
• 1:41:59
  Matt Jacob: But I hope that you're getting a little bit of an insight into the world here.
• 1:42:04
  Matt Jacob: Um is becoming more and more precious to me as we go through this week and the connections I'm making and some just wonderful people who are just trying to make sense of their own um existence, their own art, their own voice.
• 1:42:20
  Matt Jacob: And um yeah, I'm truly privileged just to just to be here and be be part of everyone's journey.
• 1:42:26
  Matt Jacob: So yeah, look guys, um make a deal with you.
• 1:42:30
  Matt Jacob: Uh I'm gonna try and get at least five, six more attendees over the next few days.
• 1:42:34
  Matt Jacob: And I will want to speak to um definitely Jesse.
• 1:42:39
  Matt Jacob: Uh I know we've had him on the podcast, but as the guy that kind of the the creator of this event and the runner, he's extremely busy running around, uh obviously you know, handling logistics, managing all the reviewers, and you know, he's got he's got over a hundred people to try and um coordinate here along with Katie.
• 1:42:57
  Matt Jacob: So I'm gonna try and get him uh in front of the mic just for five minutes, as well as um some other names like I want to speak to uh Matt Jenatempo, um I want to speak to we've already spoken to Brian a little bit.
• 1:43:11
  Matt Jacob: Um I won't put him on the spot again.
• 1:43:14
  Matt Jacob: Um I want to speak to Mitchell Kominek.
• 1:43:18
  Matt Jacob: I want to speak to everyone.
• 1:43:20
  Matt Jacob: Um that I'm not gonna be able to do it obviously, but hopefully I'm gonna bring you um a few more of the reviewers and a few more of the attendees, as well as just kind of the ins and outs.
• 1:43:32
  Matt Jacob: I'll give you guys a tour of the resort because you know it's important that I think you see and listen to the environment uh that we get put in and how it's all kind of looked after for us and how welcome we're made to feel and how supported we're made to feel.
• 1:43:49
  Matt Jacob: So two more days.
• 1:43:51
  Matt Jacob: I feel like time is running out already, and uh well it is running out, but um don't want the Sunday to come when we all fly off um to kind of look back and on this this weird and wonderful existence we all had together for a week.
• 1:44:05
  Matt Jacob: So um my work is being received.
• 1:44:09
  Matt Jacob: Uh I think I have um plenty of work to do.
• 1:44:11
  Matt Jacob: Harrison made some really good insights.
• 1:44:14
  Matt Jacob: He gave me like a rapid review tonight.
• 1:44:16
  Matt Jacob: Is like that's half the problem.
• 1:44:18
  Matt Jacob: It's just these 20 reviewers have 80 people to try and kind of entertain or at least give attention to, and just getting any one of them to who who isn't on your list, like Harrison's not on my list, so getting him to give me some time to look at my work and give me some insights is you know, it's it's really difficult.
• 1:44:37
  Matt Jacob: And you don't want to like impose.
• 1:44:38
  Matt Jacob: They're here for that, but they're not here to just be at our every uh whim.
• 1:44:43
  Matt Jacob: So I'm trying to be sensitive with that.
• 1:44:45
  Matt Jacob: Um but uh but yeah, Harrison gave me he he really simplifies, just said, pick your pick your ten favourite images, show me your ten favourite images, and we'll see what kind of core that is, and then you just work from that.
• 1:44:57
  Matt Jacob: And I did that and I felt stripped entirely because it it felt so disjointed, felt really clunky, and it kind of made me think, fuck, I've got I've got a lot more to do uh when I get back.
• 1:45:11
  Matt Jacob: But granted, he only saw kind of uh 20 selections, if that, maybe 15.
• 1:45:16
  Matt Jacob: So yeah, we'll see.
• 1:45:18
  Matt Jacob: I've got three tomorrow.
• 1:45:20
  Matt Jacob: I've got Odette England, which I'm really looking forward to.
• 1:45:23
  Matt Jacob: Big fan of her work.
• 1:45:24
  Matt Jacob: Or Brian Scooter Mat tomorrow.
• 1:45:26
  Matt Jacob: And um, I can't remember my my third one.
• 1:45:30
  Matt Jacob: So yeah, I'll let you know how those go.
• 1:45:34
  Matt Jacob: Uh, I feel like I'm presenting a little bit more of a solidified body of work to them tomorrow.
• 1:45:38
  Matt Jacob: So um I think each day we make iterations and we we hope for improvements even in this week.
• 1:45:45
  Matt Jacob: But we'll see.
• 1:45:46
  Matt Jacob: I'm off to bed now to try and get a normal night's sleep and then we'll be at it again tomorrow.
• 1:45:50
  Matt Jacob: Alright, bye guys.
• 1:45:52
  Matt Jacob: That's all that's always interesting.
• 1:46:01
  Matt Jacob: What are you looking for in terms of artists that might just stand out and speak to you?
• 1:46:06
  Daniel Arnold: Um what trouble are you having with the project?
• 1:46:08
  Daniel Arnold: Like, where I'm like, where is this going?
• 1:46:11
  Harrison Miller: Yeah, that's you'll get people who are supportive of your work and they make you feel good, but then you go meet someone who's like, I don't really care about this.
• 1:46:18
  Harrison Miller: And then it's just like, oh great.
• 1:46:21
  Esther Garrison: It's out now! It's out, it's out, it's just awkward that I don't have it.
• 1:46:24
  Esther Garrison: It's it.
• 1:46:26
  Matt Jacob: What do you what do you look for when you're sat across the table from an attendee and they're presenting their work like I've just done with you?
• 1:46:33
  Daniel Arnold: I don't know.
• 1:46:33
  Daniel Arnold: I just you strike some magic note and the world just kind of like opens up and slows down before you, and you get to luxuriate in being a good photographer.
• 1:46:43
  Matt Jacob: And I think the truth is like We forget, even even the pros at Tim's level still need to be inspired.
• 1:46:48
  Matt Jacob: Not need to be, but still get inspired.
• 1:46:50
  Matt Jacob: Oh yeah, everybody can make pictures that I've never seen before, you know, like and I love it.
• 1:46:55
  Daniel Arnold: Whoa, what a what an what an amazing gift