Latest / Sabiduría Oculta Podcast / Chamanismo

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Chamanismo · Sabiduría Oculta Podcast

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Hey. Good morning. I hope this episode finds you with good health and
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your voices of good health, welcome, welcome, wisdom, hidden, your
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source of mystical knowledge, is hotteric and spiritual. I am Moisés Guzmán and
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this particular episode is special, since marcela jí de alchemia personal invited me to
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his program to talk about shamanism. This is the episode we recorded together and
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I hope in some future to have her as a guest on the show so
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that she will talk to us a little bit about what she knows in the
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description of this episode. I' ll leave you links to their networks,
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but without further ado, I hope you enjoy this episode hello. Welcome to
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this new episode of personal alchemy. Today I have Moses Guzman with me.
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He is the creative soul and the presenter of Hidden Wisdom podcast. He is
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a photographer, a painter and also a musician and, in addition, a
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psychologist. Rather, he is all over the creative part and through his podcast
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invites us to learn about topics of interest such as spirituality, cabal, finshui,
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alchemy, hermetic principles and, in addition, the themes that help us
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to understand much more this functioning of the universe that we inhabit. I have
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decided to invite you because within your subjects is that is that shamanism and you
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know that here I have not brought to podcast the subject of shamanism and who,
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better person, what Moses, to come to the podcast to talk about
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this very interesting topic. In addition, he is in Mexico and has had
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direct experience with this topic. Welcome, Moses Hi, Marcela. It'
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s nice to be here. Thank you for the invitation and opportunity you give
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me to address your community with the personal chemo look. I think the content
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of both of our podcasts is a way to help all the people who were
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at the time just like you and me, with thousands of very few answers.
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And personally, I always share what I know from the heart and have
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always told the family of hidden wisdom that no one has the truth, absolute
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truth And if what I share has no resonance, with you or with your
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beliefs, then nothing really happens. Take this information as a way to expand
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your consciousness and listen to a different point of view. Now yes, the
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subject gets to interest you enough, because then that seed of doubt that was
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sown will embark you on a journey in search of your own truth. Thank
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you very much for having me here that presentation and that which you are telling
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me seemed very nice, and I think this is going to be a very
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big opening, also in not only on the topics, because understanding loves to
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say that I know I don' t know. And shamanism, as I
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say, had not brought him here to the podcast. But more than anything,
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let' s try to spin that point between spirituality and knowing ourselves,
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because many of the people who listen to me are from Latin America and for
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us this is not so foreign to shamanism. Then let' s get into
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matter and tell me to get started. What is the shamen looks at,
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for we can say that it is a belief in the spiritual power of the
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shamans that it is now. Let' s see what a shaman is defined
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in. These are figures linked to animism. Animism is the belief that everything
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has a soul, absolutely everything, not just humans, like certain religions,
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it thinks so. In the case of shamanism. Everything has a soul and
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shamans are common in primitive tribal communities. If these shamans are ancient healers,
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they believe they can contact the spirit world by rites. And well you'
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ll wonder why they contact the spiritual world. Well, they contact him to
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ask them to intervene in favor of his will, so that they can perform
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some kind of mystical feat, some miracle. Then shamanism is something interesting,
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not only because it is one of the first manifestations of religiosity in the history
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of humanity, but this world view has also served as a source of inspiration
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for other later cultures. And yes, these traces of shamanism can be found
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in cultures and religions that are now present. That' s interesting, because
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you wouldn' t think that with modern religions we could still be touching on
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issues like shamanism. There' s something that you told me very interesting,
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which is that shamanism is the way to contact, as the world says we
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don' t see and that shamans are trained for this. We practically know.
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When you say that through rituals, they do. I would like to
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know before I turn, for example, to deeper issues. If this happens
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then from generation to generation, or a shaman is chosen, how this works
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notice that it depends a lot on culture. I have had the rapprochement with
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the shamans, because they have been from here in Mexico, really when I
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went to Peru, that I was there for a while because of the rush
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of the trip and everything, because, I could not do my search for
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shamans there in Peru, but I would have liked what I know even here
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different cultures or different ethnic shaman groups also have different beliefs. Some are already
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born with that gift others, so they are getting ready as they grow and
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purify themselves during their lives and there comes a time when they become shamans of
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their own tribe So to speak, when we talk about shamanism, we have
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suddenly heard a lot about it in different indigenous cultures of our Latin American countries.
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But where the shaman originates. It is not known for certain that some
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say Siberia, others say Mongolia, Turkey, but many scholars hold the hypothesis
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that the first shamans were the Koriacs or the Koriacs. Then shamanism appears in
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this region of Siberia and Central Asia. They are only Mongols, yes,
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these are the ones who inhabited these lands around southeast Siberia, over there from
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Tibet. There they were, too. Then they migrate to remote places like
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Korea and Japan, and in this migration they are doing, because they leave
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those characteristics in the Eskimos, in the American Indians. Interestingly, shamani themselves
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are very common in different ancestral or prehistoric cultures of humanity and without knowing each
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other they have this kind of direct relationship, they do not resemble much in
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their practices. So their presence with different names, responsibilities, modes of intervention
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in the Community are part of the common tendencies of these primitive modes of organization
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and in that sense we can say that the antecedent of all organized religions,
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because it is remote to the upper paleolithic period. We are not talking about
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shamanism then going from before invention, from agriculture, from livestock, from sedentaryism,
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from humanity. So, if we speak in years, we speak that
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for the nine thousand five hundred BC, agriculture is discovered in this upper paleolithic
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period, it ranges from thirty- five thousand years BC to ten thousand years
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BC. Then, at that time, the first humans lived in caves.
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However, because these signs have been found that since this era of shamanism has
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its roots and many of the mystical practices, these symbolic practices of shamanism,
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have been maintained in one way or another, in polytheistic religions, of ancient
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cultures, even then, of modern cultures, although, because I believe we
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all know that they were not, subsequently persecuted, they were marginalized with this
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rise of monotheism, in Europe and the Middle East. I think it is
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possible that what was the witch hunt was the end of many forms of traditional
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European shamanism. How interesting and I would never have thought it originated around Mongolia.
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I wouldn' t have expected it. That was a total surprise to
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me. But look how you have been the progress or process of having passed
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from there to here, which from Mongolia ends on the side of us,
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obviously, on earth. Suddenly at that time it was a very different way
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how it was constituted. However, one would not expect it. I wouldn
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' t expect it. When, when you say that the shaman is often
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done through rituals, suddenly they teach him or pass him through tradition or from
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the beginning, when they know he is born already, he has the gift
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of what gift or, what capacity we are talking about. When you talk
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about a shaman, what shamans can do. Well, look, I think
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we' d have to define here what a shaman is. And many people,
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even though he knows, have heard the word, but you ask him
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and he says no, because he is a sorcerer. No, this chat
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calls out demons, invokes spirits. A shaman is a hua that they say
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out there today I have an episode of about the Nahuales that are these people
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who can be transformed into animals. He' s not a nahual. And
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because many people believe that a shaman is a naual, there are also many
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stereotypes, there are many misconceptions about what a shaman is. But I have
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to put it in simple terms. A shaman is a healer, a magician,
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a witch doctor? They are not words together, not separate, witch
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doctor and they succeed in voluntarily separating their spirit from the body and enter other
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worlds to have access to the subtle matters of the soul, the spirit of
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vital energy, already in deeper terms, for shamans are considered men and women
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of knowledge specialists in the soul. In these interactions with the divine, in
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fact, the mouth or shaman of the tungo shaman translates terminologically to the one
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who knows, and this makes an allusion to that wisdom and sensitivity that make
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this shaman a mediator between people and spirits to the shamans, for many surprising
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qualities are attributed to them. They do not say that they have total resistance
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to pain that have this ability to control the elements of nature. They are
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also said to be able to talk to animals, perform miracles. The shaman,
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in addition, therefore, composes songs within his tribe makes this kind of
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tones capable of bewitching the senses and we put it in a way and induce
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this trance so that they can connect with their spirits, with their gods.
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So, not the Greeks, if we go a little further back, attributed
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this kind of thing to the figure of Orpheus. Orpheus is told the legend
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that he used to enter a type of trance to make these static trips.
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He went through the celestial world, through the underworld, and there he connected
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with beings from one plane to face those inner monsters in patients and thus healed
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his fears. So, two of the functions that the shaman plays in his
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community is the role of men or doctor of diseases, and not just physical
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diseases, but also spiritual diseases. And the other function that the shaman has
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within his group, of his tribe is to be a psychopompo, or because
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also known as the companion of the soul of the deceased when someone dies,
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for he is supposed to accompany that soul to its last resting place, well,
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that would be a shaman. How nice that you just mentioned the psychopomp
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there, because I didn' t know much about the psychopomp until recently I
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heard a woman in an episode of a podcast that I don' t remember
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the name. Now she' s a woman in Scotland, good in Scotland.
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In it he was educated with people from Scotland to start helping people pass
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the plan and that was the first time I heard that you just told me
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this psychopomp and I didn' t know that here too we had through the
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shaman the same service, because it is a service to the soul. And
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how nice that is. And I' m going to ask you then if
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the shaman is a person who is a medicine man and is also a man
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who helps souls pass. Pueal was then how people in his tribe were afraid
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of him with respect, because what I understand is that many of the people
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who are shamans or medicine people, everyone had them with their respect and put
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them on the edge of the tribe and the village. No one was going
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to mess with him or bother him, but at the time of the truth
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he also did not want to mix directly with him how this is how that
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shaman lived notice that, for, the shamans have always been respected for the
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same thing that they were considered a man of medicine and someone extremely intelligent,
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a role that the shamans also played in their tribes were priests, not within
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these tribes did all these rituals. As I mentioned before, they were not
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healers, they were herbalists too, and within all that, they were even
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military or political leaders. They depended heavily on the organization of the Community.
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So, in those remote times where medicine, religion, and politics were like
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a part of a whole disorganized today, because we know those things are separate.
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The shamans occupied these key positions within these organizations, even since until today,
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in the tribes that exist the shamans are considered, because all these things
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that I just mentioned. Then shamanism has been practiced since prehistoric times in all
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the geographies of the world and survives to this day, accompanied by this belief,
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in a spirit- populated world with which you can have this direct contact
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through the proper rituals. For what, then, to get the favors one
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wants those spirits to help the magician or the shaman, in this case to
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fulfill. But yeah, basically they occupy a lot of positions so they'
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re kind of mixed up in their tribe but they have a lot of respect.
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At the same time you know moyc is that when I first heard it
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was about good, for the first time not, but when suddenly I read
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now that I remember, now that you' re talking about man, medicine
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and all this sort of stuff. I think the only reference I have to
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shamanism is one who listens to it when it grows up in Latin America.
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But reading Jacobo Greenberg' s book, Pachita, I didn' t read
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the book. I listened to the free audio and listened to it like three
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times because I couldn' t believe everything that heard the claudio book that you
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entertain I highly recommend to the people who are in the podcast that ghanik find
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it, which is free on YouTube. It' s a wonder what this
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woman is. It was said that a woman medicine or Ochamana and precisely Jacobo
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came to her because of the study of shamanism in Mexico, which is the
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one you are most familiar with within the things that were told there in the
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book. And that' s what I' m talking about, because I
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don' t have another point of reference. She worked with Cuautémock, for
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example. True that is like invoking a spirit when we speak of shamanism.
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How you do then or how spirits are invoked from the shaman, start calling
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them to do what you have to do. How he does it. Yeah,
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sure Look, before I answer your question. Anyway, on my podcast
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I did an episode that talks about Pachita and her healing methods. Brother Cuautemo
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called her a good little brother. So, anyway. There' s the
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episode. I' ll pass you the league after marce so you can give
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it to your family here personal alchemy, even if they want to hear it.
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But how do they summon the spirits to these shamans. A lot has
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to do with wearing a specific outfit with these shamans as well. That'
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s why you see them and they have a very peculiar dress. They often
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wear skins from totemic animals or guard animals, so to speak, jaguars,
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eagles, all of which, because pre- Hispanic cultures considered them as guardians
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and these spirits often invoke them to carry out certain special tasks. And I
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can give you an example. Let' s not imagine the clan or the
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group was going to a kind of war. Then the shaman invoked a jaguar
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spirit to give ferocity and strength to these tribe warriors before this battle. The
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journey or flight of these shamans is a very defining thing of shamanism. This
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is attributed to the feeling that you leave your body and through the intake of
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certain plants that obviously have hallucinogenic substances, such as fungi, peyote, layahuasca,
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which contains DMT. And on this journey the shamans visit other regions,
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you can say that they have the belief that everything is divided into three parts,
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into three areas. The Cosmos is divided between zones, a lower world
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or a subworld, a middle world or the earthly plane and a higher world
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or the heavenly plane. Now each of these planes in turn is divided into
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several more transitible levels, and these spaces are not totally hermetic, they are
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not totally closed, but are said to be open to contact between these men
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and the spirits who inhabit these planes or levels. This scheme, then,
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has been maintained in the beliefs of other cultures, including Greek, Christianity.
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Christianity justifies that this shamanic technique par excellence consists of these steps from one cosmic
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region to another region, for example, going from earth to heaven, which
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is what modern religions now handle, or going from earth to hell, already
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depending. So many cultures have this idea that the planes are divided. There
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is even a belief here among the naus that Thus it is told to the
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shamans of Mexico that each human being has three soul centers where three souls inhabit.
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And let' s remember that this soul thing is a soul. So
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these centers are the head, the heart, and the liver. The liver
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aha, then it' s three. In the head lives the tonal,
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the tonal we could say that it is an animal which when a person is
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born, you acquire this bond with this animal, with this tonal. And
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the Nahuas also believe that the tonal has a double, that it inhabits a
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corral in another world. Let' s remember that tonal is an animal.
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Then you have your tonal in your head or in your heart, in your
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liver. But besides, that tonal has a double in another world that we
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don' t see and lives in a corral. This one is called the
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Tlalocan and there dwell the twin animals of all humans. I mean, in
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this corral. There' s all our doubles. Then the shamans possess several
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strong and ferocious animals as tonals. The shamans have not only one, they
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have several and the same shaman can perform good actions in favor of a person
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' s tonal if the shaman is a healer or evil actions and the shaman
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is a sorcerer. And where I' m going with all this this sea
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you' ve heard cases where a person is very, very sick and they
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take her to the doctor and they do studies of all kinds and they never
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find her clear, of course. Okay. The explanation given by the Nahuas
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to this is that it is a kind of witchcraft and the witchcraft in which
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it consists consists of a rapture in the dream of the victim' s tonal.
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Then, during a dream trip, the tonal of the sorcerer leads to
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the tonal of the victim, to the corral of the companion animals and there
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they feed on the spiritual substance of this tonal that, in the physical world
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is weakening the sick and can reach it, it can lead to forgiveness until
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death. Even wow, so it' s like they steal or kidnap our
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guide animal and take it and separate it and eat the energy of that guide
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animal. Yes, that' s exactly what I' m saying, because
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it' s his belief. But yes, I have seen many cases of
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people who find nothing and nothing else. They' re sick and sick and
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sick and take them with a sorcerer, with a healer and they' re
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relieved. No. Then I believe that there is much beyond this spiritual world
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that we do not fully understand. But for some reason the Nahuas, the
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Guarritricas that Horita, let' s talk a little bit about them this because
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yes in these beliefs and are very strongly rooted convictions. I feel like if
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there wasn' t now that you were talking about this, I remembered that
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I, at first, said no. I have no idea, I have
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never heard of Chamaringo, but at the time of truth, now remembering the
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other source where the shaman is mentioned is Carlos Castaneda, and there he also
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speaks directly of these worlds and the connection with the different planes and how it
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is possible to access them. Then it doesn' t surprise me, because
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if at this moment the hair is so finite and people have been starting to
25:56
access the world, we don' t see through developing their own skills.
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Already these kinds of talks about, for example, shamanism, at this moment
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they can not seem so strange to us. When you were talking, talk
26:11
blah, talk to me a little bit. When you talked about what you
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said earlier, Marce, I' m going to talk a little bit more
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about this. What was a word that I don' t know what it
26:22
is, what it means, what it is? There is a town here
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in Mexico, in San Luis Potosí. This one is about six and a
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half hours away from me here in Monterrey. And there are the wirraricas,
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or they are commonly more known as the huicholes. I think it' s
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easier to pronounce it and people go to the Huichols the Huichols, but in
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themselves they call themselves Wirrarians and every year make a pilgrimage. Year after year,
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These Huichols do not pilgrim, because for the Huichols the sun is their
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god and the Sun was born on the hill of the Burn or in Huiracuta.
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That' s what this town is called. Of course the locals,
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because they know it as the hill of the burned and there they go every
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year, they do not carry their offerings, they light a ceremonial fire.
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During this pilgrimage they purify and notice. His story is very long and very
27:26
beautiful. Maybe you will pass a league of a small short film that explains
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how this worldview of the Wirrarians and how this legend of the sun, because
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it was created. Same. If you want some vegetables, there' s
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about ten fifteen minutes to the short film. But well, they make this
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pilgrimage. From afar, the Wirrarika are natives of the Sierra Madre Occidental.
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For those who do not place the mountain range, this has been the states
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of Jalisco, in Nayari, Durango and Zacatecas, but I remember badly then
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this pilgrimage marce is five hundred and fifty kilometers, approximately in miles, would
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be three hundred and forty- one miles on foot. From there, from
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where they live to go to the hill of the burned and they don'
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t have in themselves like a date. Specifically, ordinary people, like us,
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don' t really know when this pilgrimage is going to be. It
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is only known that it is between October and March that they pilgrims from their
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community and arrive in the desert of Huirakuta, and the purpose is to honor
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the sun aha Then on this pilgrimage they travel the Maracamé. So they tell
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their shaman and also travel the hicuti tamet Yes, they tell those who are
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collecting the peyote. Right now, we talk a little bit about the peyote
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and during this journey they don' t talk, that is, they go
29:10
in total silence. They just drink water. Also if they go in full
29:14
there is one collecting peyote. Nothing more than this peyote is important because they
29:18
will use it in the end, as they reach their destination. Then they
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remain in complete state of contemplation. When they arrive, they climb the hill
29:30
of the burn. There in real of fourteen, really if you have the
29:34
opportunity to visit Mexico and real of fourteen, the hill of burning is something
29:38
that you have to visit more if you are, because in this wave of
29:44
spirituality. Not since I highly recommend that you go up to the hill of
29:48
the burn if you get to go to Real of fourteen. But, well,
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they' ll see I' m telling you, it' s just
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that in Mexico it' s among the places I read my husband. We
29:56
don' t have to stay in Mexico, but months because all of this
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has to be wonderful. It is that the country is great that for you
30:06
to know all these kinds of things that you are now telling us, that
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for me they are all new. But tell me, tell me, follow
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me contact aha, so they go up the hill of the burning there are
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in real fourteen, because this is the place where the sun rises. After
30:21
defeating these nocturnal animals, the monsters of the underworld, then hicuri and hicuritely
30:27
pardon themselves, confess their romantic stories. Once they get there and while a
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child hits them with a twig, it obviously doesn' t hurt, but
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because that' s like so they don' t keep any secrets, they
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get there to purify themselves, to get everything out. Then all these confessions
30:45
begin to be made. The child starts hitting them with a twig and there
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' s no guilt or. Be it here confessions are given between laughter,
30:56
between mockery and it is a way of purifying. Then, later, the
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shaman watches on the horizon looking for a blue deer that this blue deer is
31:10
the peyote. That' s how they know it. In case the shaman
31:14
does not see a blue deer, there nearby, because the group must return
31:18
empty- handed. It' s very rare for that to happen. They
31:22
always find peyote. So, if they can recognize the mythical animal, the
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shaman offers the other members a piece of peyote to chew and this is an
31:34
authorization for them to collect it from the desert ah pardon, but why an
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authorization? So people who go on pilgrimage usually can' t use the peyote
31:47
or shouldn' t use the peyote, or why a permit is illegal for
31:52
lords of the raricas, you can' t yourself go there to real fourteen
31:59
take out the peyote, or it' s punished, it' s illegal.
32:04
The only ones who have this permission are the Huichols and it' s
32:07
on that pilgrimage. So they in their pilgrimage are collecting, but they don
32:12
' t eat it yet. When the maracame gives them the signal. When
32:19
they get there that he in his vision sees that blue deer, the spirit
32:22
of the blue deer gives them a piece of peyote that means they can already
32:29
what they collected, they can start eating it. I get it, because
32:34
I, I thought, everybody wants ay Peyote' s madness right now and
32:37
the whole story I cry everyone goes and eats Peyote. No, no,
32:43
it' s illegal to do it. It' s illegal to collect it
32:46
yourself. But well, this pilgrimage culminates in the rising of the sun.
32:52
This consumption of Peyote. They do it overnight and wait for the sun to
32:58
rise. The Huichols thank their ancestors, thank the gods and return to the
33:05
camp for the ceremony of gratitude for the protection received in the search for the
33:10
Hikuri that was consumed during the night. As I mentioned a little while ago
33:19
in the Huichols or the Wirrarians call the Peyote. The blue deer and those
33:23
who haven' t seen it or don' t know what I' m
33:27
talking about. It' s a kind of cacti and it' s between
33:31
two to twelve centimeters or so in inches. It would be between one and
33:37
five inches and it doesn' t grow much, it only grows five centimeters
33:43
or two inches. On the floor. So he' s buried. They
33:45
don' t look like deer whales. Also then it is of a greyish
33:51
green color, sometimes it is bluish and is part of the ritual that is
33:58
cut to the ground. I mean, you can' t tear the peyote
34:01
out of the ground of preference, you have to cut it with a flat
34:07
stone that is there in the place, so dictated by the ritual of the
34:12
huicholes or with a wooden knife, so that, since the root is still
34:16
there deep and another button can grow in its place, it is illegal,
34:23
because how long do you think it takes to grow a peyote? No,
34:27
well, I have no idea that' s right, if it' s
34:30
illegal, you' re sure to take more than a year. It may
34:35
take more than thirty years to bloom the peyote thirty years, thirty years.
34:42
Then, then, at the time, if many people went and took them
34:45
away and plucked them away without knowing that they didn' t have to start
34:50
because you really killed him. So, the Huichols do what they do is
34:53
that with a stone they cut him to the ground and eat the halves.
35:00
Nothing more. So, this is what the Huichols and Wirrarikas use in their
35:05
ceremony for them to have that altered consciousness and be able to connect with the
35:10
spirits and their gods. How cute? How cute? I had no idea
35:16
of any of this and you experienced this you saw the passage of this whole
35:24
procession. Or you just know him for being part of Mexican culture. I
35:31
know him because at the time I went to real fourteen. This one I
35:37
did not make the pilgrimage that five hundred and fifty kilometers, because not really,
35:42
it does not give the time, but you get there to real fourteen
35:46
and take some horses. So this ride on horseback lasts about thirty minutes,
35:50
forty minutes. And something curious that happens to marce that when the horses arrive
35:57
there at the foot of the hill of the burned, they no longer continue,
36:00
that is, they stop there and do not climb, that is,
36:04
you have to get down and climb the hill on foot. I don'
36:09
t know it' s interesting that horses don' t want to walk anymore
36:16
you feel like these are nonsense and they' re not nonsense or you don
36:23
' t know anymore and feel because you' ve experienced it. When one
36:24
enters a place as is the energy, then I am not surprised. After
36:30
you go and leave the horse, what you did, because you get the
36:36
climb on the hill that is heavy, that is, if you have no
36:39
condition. There you leave the soul almost this because if it is heavy to
36:46
go up, but I go up if I go in complete silence, still
36:52
not trying, for it is to like what for respect, not that for
36:57
the Huichols that place is sacred and all that is there is sacred. The
37:00
rivers, lakes, stones, you can' t bring anything from there,
37:05
because that' s sacred land for them. So, then, in the
37:08
same way, out of respect, because you go up and when you get
37:14
there anyway if you have a chance, look for real of fourteen hill of
37:17
the burn so that you see the ceremonial center, which is a kind of
37:23
Stonehenge, where they are circles as stone, not as high as Stonehenge,
37:28
but they are circles as stone. And they already tell you there that the
37:31
walkers walk that kind of concentric circle. And you' re walking away,
37:38
you' re meditating on, because in all the things you want to leave,
37:43
what you want to purify. And when you get to the center,
37:46
there' s like some kind of offering and you leave your offering whatever you
37:52
want to offer. I personally, because I stayed there at the center,
37:55
because for them that is the center of the universe where everything originated. And
38:00
I did my meditation there. At the end, I leave my offering.
38:06
I had some quartz there to leave, to offer and you already climb a
38:10
little higher up the hill and it' s like a chapel. I could
38:15
not say chapel, because for them it is not a chapel, an altar,
38:20
so to speak, a small temple where you can see everything they leave.
38:27
In this case, the Huichols or the Wirrarians do not leave their offerings
38:31
in that center of concentric circles, but leave it up there, in that
38:37
chapel. And then you can see deer horns. I think it is in
38:42
representation, because to the blue deer there are skins, feathers, fruits,
38:47
that is, many things that you enter. There you can feel this vibe
38:52
and one of the huicholes that stay there to take care of the place,
38:57
because everyone else returns to their places of origin. He made me kind of
39:02
clean with his ritual, too, and that was my experience with the Huichols.
39:10
I don' t think one, like, outside the ui rrica community,
39:15
can be part of this ceremonial they do, because, as I tell
39:22
you, it' s illegal or it' s illegal to consume peyotes.
39:24
If you are not part of this community, then I doubt that one can
39:29
be part of their ritual that they do year after year. What an interesting
39:36
experience and the process to do this, that is done in a day,
39:43
it is several days, obviously, not including the pilgrimage that is done in
39:47
a day, and you are already leaving your intention, what you want to
39:52
get fed up with your offering and stay now more or less. Long time,
39:58
really as long as you want to be. I was there about two
40:02
hours. I believe up there on the hill, because he' s very
40:06
father, that is, the vibe that feels. Also imagine marse, lest
40:10
they have connection with their gods, with their spirits. So if you feel
40:16
a very very father vibe, that is, it' s hard to describe
40:22
what it feels like there. I liked it a lot more, because that
40:25
little ritual that you' re told to walk, those circles that are in
40:30
the middle of it. And I think that if you come to visit real
40:36
of fourteen you look there, the horse people, you ask them, they
40:43
take you to the place, as I tell you, it' s about
40:46
forty minutes on horse one way up, because it already depends a lot on
40:52
the condition that one has. I think I did about thirty forty minutes.
40:54
Also to go up and then the time that you stay there no hour and
41:01
a half to two hours, because already come down. I think it'
41:06
s easy if you wind up there about five or six hours in everything from
41:12
leaving the village of Real 14 to the hill of the burn. Many say
41:15
that in the night you see very father the sunset when the sun goes in
41:20
from up there. I didn' t do it at night, I did
41:23
it during the day. But just as at another time I have a chance,
41:29
I would like to go and be there longer, and it must be
41:35
very interesting when the night is over. Yes, you are very interesting because
41:39
of the energy you say Moses. It has been very, very, very
41:45
fruitful this conversation, because there are many things that opened my mind even more
41:52
and gave me in my heart those giggles of going to Mexico and experiencing this
41:58
kind of divisions, because one already kind of reconnects in some way to what
42:06
might have been the life of one suddenly elsewhere, in another time, in
42:09
another time, in another life. You don' t know, but that
42:15
gets a lot of attention. Then it is a gift for the Community that
42:20
you have come and shared your own experiences with us going real out of fourteen
42:28
and talking or telling us how this experience was with all the shamans or people
42:34
you saw in this community. No, she does. Thank you very much
42:38
to You, not for the invitation, thanks for having me here on your
42:42
show. We hope soon you too can be in Hidden Wisdom so that you
42:46
can tell us a little bit about what you know, because it will be
42:51
a pleasure to have you there too so that the family of Hidden Wisdom will
42:55
know you as well and there will be this opening between these podcasts that,
43:01
as I told you at the beginning, I do not think they are a
43:06
way to help people who are going through this path of spiritual awakening, which
43:12
is not really easy, because a spiritual awakening you always feel very confused and
43:15
seek answers. If you can' t find it, there' s no
43:17
more doubt. So yes, many believe that a spiritual awakening is very beautiful.
43:22
It' s not a flower road. It' s not really a
43:24
difficult road. But as I say to you, I do not know what
43:30
I know or what I have gone through my experience, because I tell it
43:36
from my heart and thank you, thank you. It' s been wonderful
43:40
again to have amoíces here on the podcast and on the episode. If you
43:45
are watching this video via YouTube, I invite you to subscribe and also follow
43:51
Moses in hidden wisdom which is the podcast where he has some great pites and
43:57
podcasts that are not longer than one can consume. Of course I tell you
44:06
that you' re going to consume enough at once and for esbel you already
44:09
have many there And if you haven' t joined the community and personal alchemy,
44:15
I invite you to join, going to personal alchemy with k and subscribe.
44:22
We have arrived then, in the end remember to send me your questions
44:29
and also those topics that you want me to bring here to the community.
44:32
Again, Moses, a thousand thanks for having participated in personal alchemy and let
44:37
us hope that this is not the last time. Thank you very much,
44:40
Marce, and so, greetings to everyone, to the whole community of personal
44:44
alchemy. Nice to take care of you.