Latest / How To Protect The Ocean / Ocean Ramsay's Shark Whisperer, A Review of the Conservation Claims and Controversies

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Ocean Ramsay's Shark Whisperer, A Review of the Conservation Claims and Controversies · How To Protect The Ocean

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  The Shark Whisperer is out.
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  I watched it on Netflix.
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  It's documentary about
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  Ocean Ramsay and her work
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  about interacting with sharks.
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  Very controversial in the science
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  and ocean conservation world.
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  Although she captures the
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  attention of many people.
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  Of course, why wouldn't you
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  when you ride a great
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  white shark in the water?
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  This is gonna be an
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  interesting review of this.
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  I already recorded an
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  episode, it was 40 minutes long.
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  I'm gonna try and make this less.
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  So let's start the show.
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  (upbeat music)
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  Hey everybody, welcome back to another
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  exciting episode of the How
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  to Protect the Ocean podcast.
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  I'm your host Andrew Lewin.
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  And this is the podcast where you find
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  out what's happening with the ocean.
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  How you could speak up for the ocean.
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  What you can do to live for a better
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  ocean by taking action.
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  If action is what you want to take before
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  we get into the Shark Whisperer and Ocean
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  Ramsay and all that.
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  If you want to take real action, you want
• 1:00:47
  to know how to protect the ocean.
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  Join the undertow to join this online
• 1:00:52
  community that I'm creating
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  with two other co-founders.
• 1:00:54
  These amazing women who are
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  out there trying to do best.
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  We are trying to help guide you to choose
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  better ways to protect the ocean.
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  If you don't know, you can learn about
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  the ocean in this community.
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  You can learn about how to protect the
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  ocean better in this community.
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  Just go to speakupforblue.com forward
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  slash join the undertow.
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  That's speakupforblue.com forward slash
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  join the undertow to join the undertow
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  and do better at conservation.
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  So that's what I want you to do right
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  before we start this.
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  Now let's get into it.
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  Okay, I recorded this episode before and
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  it was 40 minutes long.
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  Did not want to do that to you.
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  I know attention spans are short.
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  We have lots to do.
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  I want you to take this
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  episode for what it's worth.
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  It is a documentary about a woman who
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  interacts with sharks in a bad way.
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  I'm going to tell you that's a bad way.
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  She doesn't mean to do in a
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  bad way, but it's a bad way.
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  She harasses sharks.
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  It's what she does
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  and it's shown on video.
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  I don't mean to degrade her in any way.
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  I don't mean to be mean to her in any
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  way, but it's what she does.
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  And so this has been a topic of a lot of
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  controversy within the ocean science and
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  an ocean conservation world.
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  A lot of people have spoken
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  out about the work that she does.
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  But the thing is that it
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  captures a lot of attention.
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  They take amazing photos of her
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  interacting with these sharks touching
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  the sharks pushing them away interacting
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  with these sharks and she
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  puts out some misinformation.
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  So we're going to get into the
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  documentary what it's about and what are
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  the problems I have with it really in
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  terms of it and then some of the things
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  that I think we need to learn as ocean
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  conservationists and scientists to say,
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  hey, we need to start capturing the
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  attention of people and we
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  need to figure out ways to do it.
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  That is in a good way and also some
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  advice for Netflix and
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  who to actually cover.
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  So we're going to talk
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  about that all today.
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  So let's get into it.
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  The movie is about Ocean Ramsey.
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  Ocean Ramsey claims to be a scientist
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  claims to be a researcher
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  claims to be a shark whisperer.
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  Although she says she's not a shark
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  whisperer in the movie, but the movie
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  says, you know, title is shark whisperer.
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  But essentially what she's done is she's
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  created this company where she goes out
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  and she teaches people
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  how to interact with sharks.
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  She wants to show that sharks are gentle.
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  She wants to show that sharks are not
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  monsters as some movies like Jaws may
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  have represented in the past and some
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  people have represented
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  people are afraid of sharks.
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  That is not a doubt.
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  Everybody there are a lot of people who
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  are afraid of sharks.
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  People know that
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  everybody knows that it's fine.
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  There's nothing wrong with that.
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  They are predators.
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  They have big teeth.
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  They have bitten people before.
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  It doesn't happen as often
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  as we think, but it happens.
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  And when you go in the water, all you
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  think of is Jaws or all you think of are
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  these different types of movies about
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  sharks eating people or hurting people
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  and it happens in real life at times.
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  And unfortunately, you know, they get a
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  bad rap because of it.
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  So people are afraid of sharks.
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  That fear of sharks has led to the
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  killing of sharks, whether it's for
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  fishing or for
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  tournaments or for anything else.
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  And sometimes, you know,
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  people get mad at that.
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  And sometimes people are like, well, we
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  need to change the reputation of sharks.
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  Those people go out and
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  do it in different ways.
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  Some people will swim with sharks, not
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  touch them and do what, you know, Patty
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  says and what all the scuba diving
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  outfits say and say when you're in the
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  water, you just look, you don't touch.
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  That's pretty much what the mantra is
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  when you're in the water, what you should
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  be doing, whether you're a scientist or
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  not, unless you're actually
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  doing work up on the animal.
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  You do not touch if you don't need to.
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  Ocean Ramsey touches.
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  She has this connection, she says in this
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  movie, and that's what allows her to
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  interact with these animals.
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  Now, here's the thing. She anthropomorphizes these animals.
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  Basically, what she's doing, what that
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  means is she's attributing human
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  characteristics to animals where those
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  human characteristics
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  are probably not true.
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  She says she has this
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  connection with the animals.
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  She knows the animals and they all have
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  different characteristics, like they all
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  have their character.
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  They all act in different ways.
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  Each individual shark, whether it's a
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  tiger shark, whether it's an ocean white
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  tip, each individual shark of that
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  population of that area will display
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  different types of characteristics.
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  That's not in doubt here.
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  It's whether they're being friendly or
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  whether they're coming to say hello or
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  whether they're doing things.
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  These are animals. These are predators.
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  They're coming to check you out.
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  If a shark approaches you, it's checking
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  you out to say, one, are you food? And
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  two, are you dangerous to me?
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  If you're dangerous to me, I'm going to
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  get out. If you're food, I'm going to
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  come check you out even more.
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  And so you see a lot of times in the
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  film, you see, you know, a tiger shark
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  coming up to Ocean Ramsey.
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  She puts her hand out. She says, I'm only
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  waiting until they come to me.
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  Although there's other shots in the video
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  where she's actually touching their fins
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  and things like that.
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  And there's a shot where a great white
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  came by what everybody
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  thought was deep blue.
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  Apparently it's not deep blue. The name
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  of the shark was a 20 foot
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  great white shark. It's huge.
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  And that's what made her popular. She
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  rode this thing. She held onto its fin
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  and rode it basically swimming within.
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  Let it kind of drag her around in a very
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  peaceful way. And it went viral.
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  And she claims a lot of things from that.
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  But, you know, that's what happens. She
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  rides them. She holds onto their fins.
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  She essentially harasses them. You should
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  never touch a shark. You never know what
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  you're going to do that shark.
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  You never know what's on your hands. You
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  never know what's on the
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  sharks, you know, skin.
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  There's a lot of dangers that can happen.
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  And plus you don't want to piss off a
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  shark. Now, she has gone diving with
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  sharks for a long time.
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  She probably has thousands and thousands
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  of hours with sharks in this atmosphere.
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  But the problem is, is that you never
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  know when a shark is going to turn on
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  you. For example, there is a shark that's
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  in the film where she says she has to watch her at all times.
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  Because this shark will come up. And
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  normally when she pushes them away, a
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  tiger shark will actually take a long
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  route and come back around and then come
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  visit her again by checking her out to
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  see if she's actually food.
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  But this one will come back and turn back
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  around quick and she has to be careful of
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  that. This is the thing where I'm saying
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  it's not games these sharks are playing.
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  These sharks are out there to survive.
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  They're out there either to protect
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  themselves or to eat.
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  That's what they do.
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  That's the animal kingdom. That's what
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  happens. Mother Nature is cruel. These
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  animals have to be just as cruel and
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  that's how it works. Right. So this is
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  what we're dealing with from a
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  perspective. However, the movie makes it
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  sound like she's just
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  this shark whisperer.
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  She has this ability to connect with
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  sharks and the sharks connect with her
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  and it feels just so spiritual and it
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  feels just great. It's all BS, but it's
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  easy to fall for it. It is.
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  And when I watched it, I was like, oh
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  wow, like she really does a good job with
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  all of these sharks and things like that.
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  You fall for it. It's really easy to fall
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  for because it's a beautiful depiction of
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  how animals and humans can interact. And
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  I do believe that she has, you know, a
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  want to protect these sharks. She sees
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  these sharks every day when you start to
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  grow a or not every day, but most of the
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  days when every time she's out there, she
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  sees the same sharks come back. You know,
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  there was one shark that had a crack jaw
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  or broken jaw and it's sad.
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  Then it had a fish hook in it and there's
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  a lot of things that were going on. The
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  problem is, is she's still harassing
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  sharks. She teaches other people that you
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  can harass sharks and get away with it
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  and you can't. You just don't want to do
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  that because yes, she has thousands and
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  thousands of hours in
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  the water with sharks.
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  But other people who don't are going to
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  try this. Not everybody because a lot of
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  us are like, I'm not getting in the water
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  with sharks without a cage or even just
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  getting the water with sharks anyway. But
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  there are people who will and there are
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  people who will try this tactic, whether
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  it's a great white, whether it's a tiger
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  shark, whether it's a
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  Mako shark, any shark.
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  They will do that and they will get hurt
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  because of it. And that is dangerous
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  because what does that do? Not only to
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  the person hurt the person, but it could
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  also hurt the reputation of sharks. And
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  that is what we don't want. We've taken a
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  lot of time. There's a lot of people who
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  have taken a lot of time to make sure
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  that these sharks have better reputation,
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  that they're known as being these
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  formidable animals and predators, apex
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  predators, but they need to be protected
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  and that they're not always after humans.
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  There have been plenty
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  of studies to show that.
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  Dr. Chris Lowe out of the University of
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  California, Long Beach lab, the shark
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  lab, and it shows it every day. So that's
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  something that's really important to look
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  at. Look at the science. Don't just look
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  at people who are just touching sharks
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  and getting away with it because I'll
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  tell you at some point she's going to get
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  hurt. She even says that it could happen
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  and that she's okay with it. I'm not okay
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  with somebody getting hurt. People
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  watching it or filming it. And also, you
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  know, that reputation of sharks going
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  downhill. Let's be honest. The crocodile
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  hunter had the same kind of thing. Got
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  killed by a stingray.
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  An accident and you know he doesn't want
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  anything happened to stingrays, but
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  people are afraid of stingrays because it
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  hit the crocodile hunter that it could
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  hit anybody if people are afraid, but not
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  going to want to protect and we need all
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  hands on deck to protect. That's what we
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  need. Okay, enough on that. I got a lot
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  of other stuff to go through. So I'm
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  going to go through that and I'm already
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  at like 13 minutes. So I've got like a
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  couple minutes to try and keep everything
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  down to a good thing. So hopefully my
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  editor will be able to edit this down so
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  that you can go and get a good timing and get back on to your own.
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  Okay, let's talk about the conservation
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  efforts. The one story that really
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  captured my attention was the
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  conservation effort that she talks about
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  a banning sharks in Hawaii, the banning
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  of shark fishing in Hawaii. Now she talks
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  a lot about conservation efforts about,
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  you know, finning. She talks about
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  banning finning and how, you know, 100
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  million sharks die every day. We know the
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  deaths of sharks from finning is going
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  down since it was first reported. But
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  there are other ways that sharks die. A
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  lot is overfishing and unsustainable.
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  Fishing practices and not, you know,
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  watching them out in the high seas and so
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  forth. There's a lot of stuff that is
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  killing sharks and still a lot of sharks
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  die each and every day shark fishing can
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  be a problem. There are ways that, you
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  know, sustainable shark fishing can
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  happen. But what she refers to one thing
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  before we get into the story of how she
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  protected or how she helped get shark
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  fishing banned in Hawaii was the fact
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  that she talked about fitting and she
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  talked about finning.
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  She has B roll of her walking around what
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  seemed to be in an Asian fishing market
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  She sees sharks these dead sharks and
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  fins being cut off of these dead sharks
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  Now that is technically not finning that
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  is taking the fins off of a dead shark
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  That is actually very legal in a lot of
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  places not illegal
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  legal in a lot of places
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  If you land the shark, that means you
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  bring it back dead you fish the shark
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  You're gonna sell it for its meat. You
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  can also sell the fins because you want
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  to use up the entire body
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  That's a sustainable practice and use of
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  a shark is if you're gonna fish it and if
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  you don't agree with it
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  That's fine. But if you're gonna fish it
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  you should eat all of it
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  So taking the fins make sense in that
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  perspective the act of
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  finning is to go out into the ocean
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  Right middle the ocean or wherever you
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  are on the coast wherever and actually
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  catch a shark keep it alive
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  Cut the fins off the shark while it's
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  alive and then throw the shark back while
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  it's still alive without its fins
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  For it to essentially just die a very
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  very painful death. That is cruel
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  That is awful. And I know
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  some of you will argue that
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  Hey, you know what killing a shark just
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  for fishing and different meat is cruel
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  in itself. I understand that that is
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  legal in a lot of places
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  What's illegal is the act of finning
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  which I just described?
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  There's meaning in the different words
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  and she misrepresents
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  what finning is in this film
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  She's done that before and that matters
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  to a lot of ocean conservationists to a
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  lot of scientists and
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  it should matter to you
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  Because that's actually legal
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  That's actually using the shark when you
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  land it and cut the fins
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  off to use it for shark fins
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  That's actually a sustainable way because
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  you want to use all of the animal, right?
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  That's a very good way of making sure
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  that we're sustainable
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  if we are going to fish
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  For a particular species a shark a
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  different type of fish, whatever that is
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  You want to use all of it so that makes
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  it worthwhile, right?
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  That's a very big act when you eat
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  animals is to use all of its parts
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  So that's one of the things that you
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  know, and you may not
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  agree and that's fine
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  But that's one of the things that I had a
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  particularly caught my eye and be like
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  well, hold on a second
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  That's not actually finning now with her
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  banning of shark fishing within Hawaii
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  Admirable act she'd
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  played a role in it. She
• 1:12:06
  partnered up with some other organization
• 1:12:08
  There was an organization and a people
• 1:12:10
  called Hanaka and it was led by this
• 1:12:12
  whole movement was led by Hanaka
• 1:12:14
  And I've got a video to document someone
• 1:12:16
  telling you that it was Mackenzie who's
• 1:12:19
  on tick-tock who's been
• 1:12:20
  on this podcast before
• 1:12:21
  She's great. She's a scientist
• 1:12:23
  She's a very great ocean conservationist
• 1:12:25
  and she's a great science communicator
• 1:12:26
  And she is from the island of Hawaii in
• 1:12:29
  Oahu and she knows a lot about that
• 1:12:31
  And she talks a little bit
• 1:12:32
  more than I know about her
• 1:12:33
  So I'll let her talk about that aspect,
• 1:12:35
  but this was a Hanaka led
• 1:12:37
  I guess conservation movement and it
• 1:12:39
  worked now she coupled into it
• 1:12:41
  She came into the team as a team and she
• 1:12:44
  used her following to get public support
• 1:12:46
  She also goes around to schools and other
• 1:12:49
  places and communities and teaches about
• 1:12:51
  sharks and what her work does
• 1:12:52
  So that's great. That's admirable. And
• 1:12:54
  she was part of that team
• 1:12:55
  This film this documentary makes it look
• 1:12:58
  like she led the whole thing in the film
• 1:13:01
  She said that she didn't get it the
• 1:13:03
  building get passed in
• 1:13:04
  2016 nor in 2017 nor in 2018
• 1:13:06
  It wasn't until 2019 after the video came
• 1:13:08
  out of her swimming
• 1:13:09
  with the great white shark
• 1:13:10
  That's what she says. She attributes the
• 1:13:13
  fact that hey, you know what?
• 1:13:14
  That's what kind of put it over the hump
• 1:13:16
  and got it passed because there wasn't
• 1:13:17
  much opposition of
• 1:13:18
  that because if you swim
• 1:13:19
  With a great white and you're not getting
• 1:13:20
  eaten then sharks can't be that bad. We
• 1:13:22
  shouldn't be fishing for sharks
• 1:13:24
  That's what she claims
• 1:13:25
  in the film essentially
• 1:13:26
  But the thing is is when you try and get
• 1:13:28
  policy passed it doesn't
• 1:13:30
  always happen at the beginning
• 1:13:31
  Right doesn't always happen the first
• 1:13:32
  year the second year the third year
• 1:13:33
  Sometimes doesn't happen for 10 years the
• 1:13:35
  Ross Sea Marine
• 1:13:36
  protected area in Antarctica
• 1:13:37
  Took over 10 years to get accepted by 24
• 1:13:41
  nations that manage Antarctica
• 1:13:42
  It finally got accepted because you know
• 1:13:45
  the science gets better the
• 1:13:47
  public support gets better
• 1:13:48
  And there's a lot of pressure on all
• 1:13:50
  those countries from their
• 1:13:51
  own people and internationally
• 1:14:16
  To have these marine protected areas designated now There are of course other and repre And that's what makes it so
• 1:14:18
  frustrating with conservation
• 1:14:19
  It just takes so much time and a lot of
• 1:14:21
  these animals are dying in the meantime
• 1:14:22
  But I'm sure her followers and her public
• 1:14:25
  support in the gathering of public
• 1:14:26
  support and her persona
• 1:14:27
  herself helped get this passed
• 1:14:29
  But the fact is the movie whether she
• 1:14:32
  means it or not is taking credit for it
• 1:14:34
  Puts a bad taste in everybody's mouth
• 1:14:35
  because ocean
• 1:14:36
  conservation is about collaboration
• 1:14:39
  It's about working together as a team
• 1:14:41
  There are people that I know who have
• 1:14:43
  done amazing things in ocean conservation
• 1:14:46
  helped get marine protected areas
• 1:14:47
  designated helped get certain CITES
• 1:14:51
  regulations designated
• 1:14:52
  Do they take credit for it or do they let
• 1:14:55
  other people say hey
• 1:14:56
  this person did this?
• 1:14:58
  No, they will be the first to say no
• 1:15:00
  actually I worked with this organization
• 1:15:02
  and this organization did
• 1:15:03
  this part in this process
• 1:15:05
  And everybody gives credit to everybody
• 1:15:06
  doesn't happen all the time
• 1:15:08
  But when it happens that's when you know
• 1:15:09
  the true collaboration is in effect
• 1:15:12
  That's when you know that this person is
• 1:15:13
  admirable this person
• 1:15:15
  Deserves to be in this area because they
• 1:15:17
  just want to get the stuff passed and
• 1:15:19
  protected and not take
• 1:15:21
  credit for it even though
• 1:15:22
  Credits do to them right, but now they
• 1:15:24
  don't want to take all the credit
• 1:15:25
  They want to say hey, you know what other
• 1:15:26
  people, you know help get this passed
• 1:15:28
  So that is a big problem and I know maybe
• 1:15:31
  that you're listening to this and you're
• 1:15:32
  a supporter of ocean rams
• 1:15:33
  And you see well, you know what she's
• 1:15:35
  helped anyway, so isn't that great?
• 1:15:36
  It is great
• 1:15:37
  But to take credit for it in this film or
• 1:15:39
  what seems to be taking
• 1:15:41
  credit for this she led this
• 1:15:43
  Really puts a sour taste in a lot of
• 1:15:45
  people's mouths that have worked so hard
• 1:15:47
  to put it through now with that said I
• 1:15:50
  Haven't come across anybody speaking out
• 1:15:51
  against it in that thing
• 1:15:53
  That doesn't mean that anybody hasn't but
• 1:15:55
  I haven't seen any reports or any
• 1:15:57
  articles where people are speaking out
• 1:15:58
  against it and that's fine
• 1:16:01
  Maybe they did maybe they didn't what I
• 1:16:03
  see is one person taking
• 1:16:04
  credit that leading this
• 1:16:05
  I know differently and that puts a sour
• 1:16:08
  taste in my mouth with this
• 1:16:09
  I wouldn't work with somebody like that
• 1:16:11
  because of it, right?
• 1:16:12
  Whether she has two million followers or
• 1:16:14
  two followers that puts
• 1:16:15
  a sour taste in my mouth
• 1:16:16
  So I think that's thing is it's
• 1:16:18
  transparency. It's
• 1:16:18
  like hey, you know what?
• 1:16:19
  We got this pass was great, but it was a
• 1:16:21
  team effort that
• 1:16:21
  didn't show off in the movie
• 1:16:23
  It looked like she led that speaking of
• 1:16:25
  transparency ocean ramsi's education now
• 1:16:28
  Look, you don't have to be a scientist to
• 1:16:30
  do this type of work, you know
• 1:16:31
  You don't have to be a scientist you can
• 1:16:33
  be an advocate you can be an activist
• 1:16:36
  You can be someone who works in policy
• 1:16:38
  and gets into these types of situation
• 1:16:41
  gets public support and do really great
• 1:16:43
  work for ocean conservation
• 1:16:44
  But ocean ramsi has
• 1:16:45
  claimed that she is a scientist
• 1:16:47
  However, there's something very different
• 1:16:49
  about her claims compared to what she's
• 1:16:52
  proven or what she's shown
• 1:16:53
  of where she's gone to school
• 1:16:54
  And how she got her credentials
• 1:16:57
  She may have schooling and she may have
• 1:16:58
  credentials and she may choose not to
• 1:17:00
  post it on a website
• 1:17:02
  But she is the first scientist that I
• 1:17:03
  have ever met who has not posted their
• 1:17:05
  credentials or talked
• 1:17:06
  about their credentials
• 1:17:07
  And that is a little weird to me. I'll be
• 1:17:10
  honest and it's not against
• 1:17:11
  it if she has it that's fine
• 1:17:13
  But it's causing a lot of controversy
• 1:17:15
  within the scientific community ocean
• 1:17:17
  conservation committees
• 1:17:17
  Like she says she's a scientist
• 1:17:19
  She says she practices science and you
• 1:17:20
  can collect data for a lot of different
• 1:17:22
  researchers and stuff
• 1:17:23
  that happens all the time
• 1:17:23
  And you're not a scientist, but she
• 1:17:25
  claims she's a scientist, but she doesn't
• 1:17:26
  talk about being a scientist
• 1:17:27
  She doesn't they not proudly display it
• 1:17:30
  on her website or anything like that
• 1:17:31
  And I feel like that's
• 1:17:32
  a little odd, you know
• 1:17:33
  You want to be transparent you say you
• 1:17:34
  should be proud if she did the work
• 1:17:36
  It's hard work and she should be proud of
• 1:17:38
  what she's done, but
• 1:17:38
  don't claim it and not show it
• 1:17:40
  I think that's a little weird. It's not
• 1:17:42
  like the end all be all but it's a little
• 1:17:44
  odd that she's not claiming it
• 1:17:46
  There are people who said that she's gone
• 1:17:48
  to San Diego State University. She's got
• 1:17:50
  a marine biology degree
• 1:17:51
  She got a degree in a master's in animal
• 1:17:52
  behavior. I haven't
• 1:17:53
  seen it on her website
• 1:17:54
  I haven't seen her cut that and actually
• 1:17:55
  say it she's very
• 1:17:56
  mysterious in that kind of way
• 1:17:58
  She doesn't talk about
• 1:17:59
  herself a lot within that respect
• 1:18:01
  She only talks about herself within like
• 1:18:02
  saving sharks as well as
• 1:18:04
  interacting with these sharks
• 1:18:05
  So that's a little odd to me. Like I
• 1:18:07
  said, I'm very proud of that. I have an
• 1:18:08
  undergraduate degree
• 1:18:09
  I have a master's
• 1:18:10
  degree. I work very hard for it
• 1:18:11
  It was not easy talk to anybody who's
• 1:18:13
  done a graduate degree. It is sucks. It's
• 1:18:15
  hard. It is very difficult
• 1:18:17
  So if you have it flaunt it and you don't
• 1:18:20
  have to like I said, it's not the end all
• 1:18:22
  be all but it's a little odd to
• 1:18:23
  Me that she's not proudly displaying it
• 1:18:26
  or proudly talking about it as she should
• 1:18:27
  be because it is a very
• 1:18:29
  difficult thing to get
• 1:18:30
  It's not easy to get
• 1:18:31
  so that's a big thing
• 1:18:32
  I want to talk about going back to the
• 1:18:34
  interaction when you have cage free dives
• 1:18:37
  and you have cage dives a lot of times
• 1:18:40
  You know, you have to attract the sharks
• 1:18:42
  people attract the sharks using chumming
• 1:18:44
  or sometimes they use hand feeding
• 1:18:45
  Which is kind of crazy when you think
• 1:18:46
  about feeding sharks
• 1:18:47
  But a lot of people do it and that's how
• 1:18:49
  they attract the sharks chumming and hand
• 1:18:51
  feeding Ocean Ramsey
• 1:18:53
  says she doesn't do it
• 1:18:54
  And there's no physical evidence that
• 1:18:56
  says she does it at
• 1:18:57
  this point that I could see
• 1:18:59
  However, there have been people and I'll
• 1:19:01
  link to the video below who have said
• 1:19:02
  that she does chum water
• 1:19:03
  that they know people who say
• 1:19:05
  That she chums with the water to attract
• 1:19:07
  those sharks. She says she doesn't
• 1:19:10
  There have been apparently videos shows
• 1:19:12
  that there's chum in the water that have
• 1:19:14
  been taken down from social media posts
• 1:19:15
  Nobody that has worked for her is allowed
• 1:19:18
  to talk about it
• 1:19:19
  because they've all signed
• 1:19:20
  NDAs and they refuse to talk about it
• 1:19:22
  because they can't
• 1:19:22
  because they legally can't
• 1:19:24
  Again, the mystery around it whether it's
• 1:19:25
  true or not. I don't
• 1:19:26
  know the mystery around it
• 1:19:28
  She says she doesn't do it
• 1:19:29
  But there's you know, some people say she
• 1:19:31
  does and there's been some photos that
• 1:19:33
  have been shown online of some, you know
• 1:19:35
  Sometimes she's been hand feeding and
• 1:19:36
  she's taking those down whether that's
• 1:19:38
  just a once in a
• 1:19:39
  lifetime thing or I don't know
• 1:19:41
  Sometimes you can learn from that, but
• 1:19:42
  she says she's never done it
• 1:19:43
  She doesn't do it. And so that's a little
• 1:19:45
  weird to me again. It comes down to the
• 1:19:47
  transparency of the thing
• 1:19:49
  So I think that's difficult now. Let's
• 1:19:50
  talk about the fact
• 1:19:51
  that she's an influencer
• 1:19:52
  She's a big influencer
• 1:19:53
  within the ocean space
• 1:19:54
  She has over 2 million followers on
• 1:19:56
  Instagram and other places and a lot of
• 1:19:58
  people love what she does people have
• 1:20:00
  watched this movie and they
• 1:20:01
  Love what she does. They think she is
• 1:20:03
  amazing. That's great. They don't know
• 1:20:06
  it's very difficult to know
• 1:20:07
  She doesn't talk about a lot of the
• 1:20:08
  controversies. She lets it ride
• 1:20:10
  She talks about the
• 1:20:10
  controversies in the film
• 1:20:12
  But it doesn't make it
• 1:20:13
  look like that big of a deal
• 1:20:14
  There looks like there's some researchers
• 1:20:15
  who are on the film who don't agree with
• 1:20:17
  what she does and they talk about that
• 1:20:18
  So it kind of like when I watch I was
• 1:20:19
  like, oh, she's actually,
• 1:20:20
  you know facing it head-on
• 1:20:21
  She's talking about it. She just ignores
• 1:20:23
  it and she just does what she does
• 1:20:25
  But there's still like
• 1:20:26
  something weird about it
• 1:20:27
  It just didn't sit right with me
• 1:20:29
  But she does have a lot of followers and
• 1:20:31
  those followers have gone after other
• 1:20:33
  researchers and ocean
• 1:20:35
  scientists and ocean conservation
• 1:20:36
  Who have spoken out and criticized her
• 1:20:38
  for what she does that
• 1:20:40
  is obviously not good now
• 1:20:41
  I don't know if she
• 1:20:42
  says to go out and do it
• 1:20:43
  But the fact is I feel as an influencer
• 1:20:44
  you have that responsibility to kind of
• 1:20:46
  go online is like hey
• 1:20:47
  people if people criticize me
• 1:20:48
  That's fine as part of the job
• 1:20:50
  Please don't go after and you know
• 1:20:52
  threaten their lives or this and that and
• 1:20:53
  blah blah blah which has happened
• 1:20:55
  And so, you know when you have a
• 1:20:57
  following like that and people love you
• 1:20:58
  They defend you but it can get aggressive
• 1:21:00
  it can get scary and
• 1:21:01
  that's not good with that
• 1:21:03
  Said having a following is a really great
• 1:21:05
  thing for conservation, right?
• 1:21:07
  You saw it as an example in the film
• 1:21:09
  She talks about you know, basically
• 1:21:11
  inspire her followers to support this
• 1:21:14
  movement to ban shark
• 1:21:16
  fishing within Hawaii
• 1:21:17
  Is it huge was gonna save sharks around
• 1:21:19
  the world? No, but it's gonna
• 1:21:20
  save sharks in Hawaii for sure
• 1:21:21
  But you know, it's great to have that
• 1:21:24
  it's great to have that
• 1:21:25
  Unfortunately, it's with probably the
• 1:21:28
  wrong person that can do it for
• 1:21:30
  conservation because she
• 1:21:31
  often provides misinformation
• 1:21:32
  Like I said with the finning she
• 1:21:34
  interacts with sharks, which is not good
• 1:21:36
  She teaches people that you can't
• 1:21:37
  interact with sharks
• 1:21:38
  You should interact with sharks and that
• 1:21:39
  can be very dangerous for the sharks as
• 1:21:41
  well as for the people, you know
• 1:21:43
  There's a lot of
• 1:21:43
  controversy here. So why is it?
• 1:21:45
  I always wonder, you know, like why is it
• 1:21:46
  that a lot of people who have followings?
• 1:21:49
  Tend to do some like controversial things
• 1:21:50
  and maybe that's why they have
• 1:21:52
  followings. Maybe
• 1:21:52
  that's why Netflix is like
• 1:21:53
  Hey, let's do a documentary on this
• 1:21:55
  person because it's gonna drum up some
• 1:21:58
  controversy just like sea-spiracy did
• 1:22:00
  It's gonna drum up some support because
• 1:22:02
  they have a big following and we'll get a
• 1:22:04
  lot of views and that's
• 1:22:05
  really what it comes out
• 1:22:05
  So they want to make money. They want
• 1:22:06
  people to come to Netflix
• 1:22:07
  and they want to watch it
• 1:22:09
  I would just like to see
• 1:22:10
  other people get the spotlight
• 1:22:12
  People who have done great work people
• 1:22:14
  who are great people
• 1:22:15
  People who want to work with others and
• 1:22:17
  collaborate and do conservation the right
• 1:22:20
  way and should get the
• 1:22:21
  spotlight in front of an audience
• 1:22:23
  That has a Netflix type of audience, you
• 1:22:25
  know what I would like to see
• 1:22:26
  I like to see dr
• 1:22:27
  Asha Davos who's a marine mammologist out
• 1:22:30
  of Sri Lanka who discovered the only
• 1:22:32
  population that I think
• 1:22:33
  we know that to this day
• 1:22:35
  I don't know if that's true
• 1:22:36
  But the only blue whale population that
• 1:22:38
  doesn't migrate north or south and stays
• 1:22:40
  within the Sri Lankan waters and worked
• 1:22:42
  with the government as a woman
• 1:22:43
  in Sri Lanka worked with
• 1:22:44
  the government of Sri Lanka to
• 1:22:47
  Reroute one of the largest ports in the
• 1:22:49
  Indian Ocean so that they didn't harm
• 1:22:52
  blue whales and other whales in the area
• 1:22:54
  Like think about what that does a woman
• 1:22:56
  in Sri Lanka one woman Sri Lanka
• 1:22:58
  used her ability to do science and
• 1:23:02
  conservation and her speaking ability and
• 1:23:04
  her ability to inspire people to get a
• 1:23:07
  government who probably doesn't really
• 1:23:09
  treat women the best
• 1:23:10
  to change and reroute the shipping lanes
• 1:23:13
  of a port of one of the largest ports if
• 1:23:15
  not the largest port in
• 1:23:16
  in the Indian Ocean and
• 1:23:18
  She speaks all over the world to inspire
• 1:23:19
  people all over the world put a show on
• 1:23:21
  her do an entire documentary on her
• 1:23:23
  She's amazing. She's a good friend of
• 1:23:24
  mine. So I'm biased. She's amazing. Well,
• 1:23:27
  how would you just do that?
• 1:23:27
  Dr. Asher Davos look her up watch what
• 1:23:30
  she does. She does live streaming a lot
• 1:23:32
  of times with her marine mammal G
• 1:23:33
  Surveys and so forth. She talks about
• 1:23:35
  whale poop, which is
• 1:23:36
  fluorescent orange. It's amazing
• 1:23:38
  You got to do a documentary on Netflix
• 1:23:39
  about her or a good friend of mine Angelo
• 1:23:42
  Villa Gomez do a documentary on him
• 1:23:44
  That guy is an amazing guy. He's like a
• 1:23:46
  brother to me. He is so much fun to talk
• 1:23:48
  to he is so interesting
• 1:23:49
  He's got an interesting history, right?
• 1:23:51
  He stands up for people
• 1:23:53
  He does conservation work and he gives
• 1:23:55
  people credit for what they do and takes
• 1:23:58
  away credit from him
• 1:23:58
  Even though he deserves most of the
• 1:24:00
  credit or a lot of the
• 1:24:01
  credit, but he won't do it himself
• 1:24:02
  He's very humble that way do these
• 1:24:04
  documentaries. That's what I want to see
• 1:24:06
  I want to see people who have done great
• 1:24:08
  work in the ocean
• 1:24:08
  conservation have a great story
• 1:24:10
  It's time that we start elevating people
• 1:24:12
  who can really command
• 1:24:14
  and inspire an audience
• 1:24:15
  But they need to get in
• 1:24:16
  front of that audience
• 1:24:17
  These are the people that these
• 1:24:18
  documentaries need to be made. I would
• 1:24:21
  love to make them myself
• 1:24:22
  I don't have the ability to do so, but
• 1:24:24
  these are the people that I would choose
• 1:24:25
  These are just two of the people that I
• 1:24:26
  would choose. There are so
• 1:24:27
  many more now with that said
• 1:24:29
  I can't wait for another Netflix
• 1:24:31
  especially comes out as I'm recording
• 1:24:33
  this it comes up tomorrow
• 1:24:34
  There is a woman in there that I've had
• 1:24:36
  on the podcast. She's amazing
• 1:24:38
  I'm not gonna talk about too much of her
• 1:24:39
  right now. She's on this new shark
• 1:24:42
  You know, it looks like a reality show
• 1:24:44
  from what I see and they're taking
• 1:24:46
  pictures and they're trying
• 1:24:46
  to get pictures of as many
• 1:24:47
  Different shark species as possible. It
• 1:24:50
  looks great. She's a scientist. She just
• 1:24:52
  graduated from master's degree. She's a
• 1:24:53
  science communicator
• 1:24:54
  She's underwater photographer
• 1:24:55
  She's amazing and I can't wait to watch
• 1:24:57
  that and I can't wait to review that and
• 1:24:59
  have her on the podcast to promote
• 1:25:00
  That these are the people that we should
• 1:25:02
  be, you know focusing on
• 1:25:03
  These are the people that we need to
• 1:25:04
  elevate and I can't wait and the other
• 1:25:06
  people who are on the show with her
• 1:25:07
  I can't wait to get to know them
• 1:25:09
  These are some of the great things that
• 1:25:10
  we should do and I want people to watch
• 1:25:12
  the show to really say
• 1:25:14
  Hey, we need to support shows like this
• 1:25:16
  on Netflix and not support too much of
• 1:25:19
  shows like we see in
• 1:25:20
  Ocean Ramses taking credit
• 1:25:21
  Spreading misinformation talking about
• 1:25:23
  wildlife harassment. It's not great,
• 1:25:25
  right showing why life rasa. It's not
• 1:25:27
  great. This is my episode
• 1:25:28
  This is my review. I would love to hear
• 1:25:30
  your thoughts whether you'd like it or
• 1:25:32
  not. No judgment here
• 1:25:33
  I want to hear from you
• 1:25:34
  Let me know in the comments below on
• 1:25:36
  YouTube and of course if you're listening
• 1:25:37
  to this on your favorite podcast app
• 1:25:39
  You can get a hold of me
• 1:25:40
  go to speakupforblue.com
• 1:25:42
  contact fill out the form goes right to
• 1:25:44
  my email or you can DM me on Instagram at
• 1:25:46
  how to protect the ocean I want to
• 1:25:48
  Thank you so much for listening to this
• 1:25:49
  episode of the how to protect the ocean
• 1:25:50
  podcast. Have a great day
• 1:25:52
  I'm your host Andrew Lewin from the true
• 1:25:53
  north strong and free. Have a great day
• 1:25:54
  We'll talk to you next
• 1:25:55
  time and happy conservation