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458: Dimity McDowell - The 27th Mile · C Tolle Run

• C Tolle Run: This episode is supported by Tailwind Nutrition. I was first introduced to Tailwind last year, as I've told many of you who've been listening to the podcast And I have really been enjoying it. I said a couple weeks ago that I wanted to remind you all because we're getting into these cooler crisp mornings to make sure you stay on top of your hydration. Well, we are back in the dog days of summer. I'm sorry, I jinxed all of us. It has been hot and humid here in Minnesota, and I hope that you continue to hydrate and stay on top of your fueling. So no matter what the weather is, Tailwind. Tailwind is for you. I know I say it all the time, but no matter how you're getting after it, Tailwind makes it easy to fuel and hydrate with confidence, which I love. You can focus on the miles ahead instead of worrying about your fueling plan. And I need that. I just need that extra step of thinking taken away. I can't think anymore. So I want to say thank you again to Tailwind for supporting the show. And they have given us all 20% off if you use the code TOLLY20. That's T O L L E 20 for 20% off your order at tailwindnutrition.com. Thanks again, Tailwind. Hey everyone, I'm Olympian Carrie Tulfson and welcome to the C Tolly Run podcast. Today's episode is with Dimity McDowell. We recorded live in partnership with Twin Cities in Motion at Summit Brewery in Minnesota. We talked about her new book, The 27th Mile, her journey in and out of the running world, motherhood, menopause, finding strength through every season of life, and so much more. So let's get after it. Sarah Burney: This is fabulous. I mean, we could do this all night. a little warm-up. Who's having a great night? okay. Okay, you all have your thumbs. Excellent. Excellent. my name is Allison. I work for Twin Cities in Motion. I am our community engagement manager, and I'm so happy to be engaging community this evening. Hey, yes. Bring it on, bring it on. All right. but tonight we are here to celebrate Dimity. Where did did I get Okay, I think she's gonna pop out in a couple minutes. But somebody who's given so much to the running community and as a native Minnesotan, we're so happy to have her back. a lot of people know us for doing our large events throughout the year. a couple years ago we have started doing more stuff like this. we also do programming, we do educational programming, but really it's about bringing people together and building an inclusive an accessible space for people to be part of the root running community and we're so happy to have you here. Okay, with that I am turning it over to our good friend Carrie Talison. Let's give it up to Allison and her team at T Twin Cities in Motion. Thank you so much. I am so pumped to have a C Tolly Run live event here in Minnesota. And you know what? This is such a fun night. Dimity McDowell is one of my faves in this space. She is so encouraging, so happy, so real. And her book is amazing. So if you haven't read it yet. Please do so. I've been listening to it and I just love it. So the 27th mile is the name of it. And tonight I want to just reiterate and and Diminy's gonna tell you this. It is not about, we do not want you to think this is about ending our running careers. This is about learning what's next. And you know, for me, running is everything. It is my therapy, it is my social, it's my happy hour, it is you know, that that space that I feel alive. But it also is at times really heartbreaking. And I think we're gonna just get to hear Dimity's story and hear from some of you if you're willing to share. And so yeah, let's just bring her on up. Dimity McDowell. Diminy, you have to sit down and just listen to this bio for just a second. Okay. So this is Diminy McDowell. Before focusing on her career, she, as a runner, she was a sports journalist, holding staff positions at Self, ESPN The Magazine, and Sports Illustrated for Women. She co authored three running books and co founded Another Mother Runner, an inclusive community for all female runners with Sarah Bowen Shea. A certified personal trainer, menopause coach, and running coach, Dimity has completed everything from get this, the Iron Man Court d'Alane, to the Pike's Peak Ascent. Yeah, she is awesome. But she's most passionate about passionate about helping women stay strong and move forward on the roads, on the trails, and in their own lives. She lives in Denver with her husband and two dogs and is the mother of two adult children, neither of whom are runners. Everyone, welcome Minnesota's very own Diviny McDowell. Dimini. Thank you very much. What a I am so excited to be here. I mean, this is like a dr you know, this is my this American life. wait, wait, don't tell me appearance. Jon Stewart. It's everything to be here in Minnesota. So thank you very much. Well, you know what I loved? I was emailing back and forth with you and you had a message come back to me that you said you were in your happy place in Minnesota. And I I love that. I mean it's I I grew up here. I left when I was 18, not really knowing what I was leaving behind, as most of us do when we make young decisions. and every time I come back, I just feel just my cup is full. Yeah. So tell us a little bit about Dimity the Athlete. Like how did you get into sport? Also, how did you become a runner? Well, so I was talking, I have a a high school classmate here. Yep. Kari P Peterson. Petterson. Anyway. So names and things. Mary names and things, yes. I played tennis in high school. And I mean I was the kind of kid that I mean back going back like softball, like I was picking daisies in right field, which is the only place my like coach would let me play. dandelions, I was picking not daisies. I swam. I like to swim, but I was definitely not a runner. And then I went to college and I am a very tall woman. I'm almost six four and height is really good for rowing. the sport of rowing. You get a lot of leverage on the oar with longer limbs. And so I got recruited to the club. Club. It was not a division one team or anything like that. And that's how I really found my athletic spot. I'm not coordination's not my key. So yep, that's so I started rowing and cross training for that was running. Yeah. Yeah. Did you love it from the get go? Running? Yeah. Tell us. gosh, no, gosh, no. I I mean, I remember so we had this coach from Wisconsin. I don't think he he didn't coach at like a university, it was at a smaller school. but he talked about how his athletes that came up to upstate New York where I went to school put newspaper in between their like sports bra and their cotton champion sweatshirt because we didn't have anything technical at the time, right? So we're out there sweating in cotton. and to soak the sweat. Soak that's yeah, for outdoor runs on cold winter days. Yep. So the but just long way of saying no. I mean running was never I think I found my groove once I left. once I stopped rowing and I started running more. Cause you know, running is one of those things like if you stop, start, stop, start, you never kind of feel like you're good at it or even f find your momentum. You needed some consistency. Yeah. you've said that your favorite race is right here in Minnesota. Tell us a little bit about that. Give it up for the Twin Cities ten miler. I mean, do we love that race? That race Is I mean, I have, you know, certainly we all have those races that just stick out in our heads that are just like it's not even about performance, it's just about presence, right? And I happened to be running the 10 miler while my business partner Sarah was running the 26.2 and I just had this one of those races where I just was like, my god, that's my split. And that's my split again. Are you kidding me? Like, who has these legs? You know, I was very it was just one of those days where everything came together, but more importantly, I had You know, I don't know if any of you else also feel like running becomes a can can become a spiritual practice, especially when you are running a little bit harder. and I got a just a flood of memories. My dad who passed too early, my uncle who passed too early, childhood memories. I was thinking of Sarah running the marathon. Like I just had one of those days where I was just like, I can't, I I couldn't get much better. So I just have very fond memories of that 10 miler. It is so beautiful. I think it's one of everyone's favorites for sure. Well, and it's the best part is is you get to double digits. Yeah. And then you get to Yeah, exactly. Yes. And there's something about double digits for sure. Yeah. You know, this run thing as I was opening up tonight, you know, we talk about it as our therapy. We talk about it as our community, our happy hour, all of these things. But a lot of it, a lot of us identify as runners. It's a big part of our identity. So how many of you kind of identify as a runner? Yeah. I mean a lot of lots of green. Yeah, a lot, a lot of green thumbs. Yeah. a lot of people put it on their resumes. A lot of people, that's when they're in interviews at jobs, they talk about the accomplishments that they have from the run. So I want to talk a little bit about that with you. Sure. Like, when did you feel like you were a runner? so I I mean, this won't this won't be the story of Dimity from rowing up until now, but I I left rowing. I moved to New York City. I watched my first marathon in New York City with my friend Kathy. I'd never seen a marathon. I've heard of the Twin Cities marathon, but that just felt like something that was went on in a place that I didn't go. I grew up in the western suburbs. I didn't, you know, travel frequently. And those big scary cities, you gotta watch out. and anyway, so I saw the the New York City marathon. Kathy and I stood at like mile 24 and just cheered until our the like we could we couldn't talk anymore. And I just couldn't believe how many people were so many different si I mean, you guys all know sizes, paces, you know, ethnicities, especially in New York City, like all the people from different countries. And this was in ninety I ran the New York City marathon in nineteen ninety seven. So it wasn't as hard to get into. All you had to do is get a get a letter in the mail quickly. And so Kathy and I ran it the next year. And that's definitely when I became a runner is is doing that training cycle. in your book there's a line early on that said it kind of stopped me when I was reading it. And it says something about one of the an orthopedist said to you in twenty seventeen, Have you ever considered not running anymore? And I wanna hear your reaction to that. Yeah, I mean, so yeah, so just to backing up just a tiny bit, I mean, so I started running basically in like I'd say nineteen ninety, 'cause that's when I started rowing. and I ran until 2020. but like I ran the 1997 New York City Marathon and then I ran the 2017 San Francisco Nike Women's Marathon. Those are my two marathons that bookended my running career. Yeah, that's it. and and between basically once I started having kids and and and growing a business around running is when my body just didn't like running anymore. You know, I mean, I think I was just in my twenties and just dumb. You know, I didn't know how much it was I was not taking care of myself. And then you get busy and I just became in this super, super unrelenting chronic injury cycle where like if I got to a starting line, you know, uninjured, I would be happy. Like, and you know, people talk about putting together seasons and running, you know, 50 half marathons in each state or You know, doing that kind of thing. Like I just wanted to like get through a training cycle and not be injured. And then I could have to take a break. I knew I would have to take a break and then I could start again. And so when my doctor, who had seen me a lot, like I had emptied Kleenex boxes in his office plenty of times, you know, came at me very gently and just said, you know, I think you should consider not running anymore. And of course I cried, but the the thing that I felt the most was relief because like I had somebody like Giving me, you know, opening the door to saying, This isn't the best thing for your body anymore. And like you really need to pay attention to that instead of me feeling like I was gonna I was quitting, you know? And I suppose you had been trying and seeing different doctors, seeing different therapists for many, many years. So maybe it was time for somebody to actually just ask you that question. Well, you we runners are a little persistent, you know? and so I mean, even you know, talking to some of the women in the book, they'll be like, Well, my doctor said I wouldn't shouldn't run this Chicago marathon. So I just, you know, went yeah, so I did it. So I went and signed up, or I went and found another doctor that said that actually I could do that and I'm gonna be okay. and so we are persistent. So yes, I mean, you know, again, I I'm preaching to the choir here because I know we've got a lot of dedicated runners in the group. I mean, the amount of money that I spent trying to find the, you know, the PT move, the the acupuncturist, the chiropractic. the therapist, the this, the that. And I mean, not only is it like a financial drain if you don't have, you know, that kind of coverage, but it's an emotional drain because all you're looking for is like a magic bullet. You're looking to be like, okay, I swear to God, I will do a hundred clamshells every single day if you just let me run again. You know? How about sleeping in a cowboy boot? I did that. in a cowboy boot. Yeah, cowboy boot. Well I had planner really bad and the Straussburg sock wasn't doing it. And so, and not to say anything bad about Strasbourg, we we still have it on the at a nightstand with my husband now because he's wearing it. but I did everything from a wrestling shoe to a cowboy boot to like all the things. that's sexy. I know, right? Actually, check out the old video of C. Tolly Run, bedroom secrets. And it's like wear a cowboy boot to bat or whatever. I can't remember what we wrote, but yeah, I mean, we do everything. Yeah. Just keep going. Yeah, yeah. So that's I mean, and so. That is it's exhausting. I mean, and and and so that's to have somebody say, you know, like I think you need to consider it. Like finally I had an expert coming in and saying, Dimity, take a beat, take care of yourself. I mean, it took me three years to finish after 2017 was when he told me 2020 is when I finished, but still it was like it was some validation and it was like made me kind of go a lover. level deeper and just be now like what's the quick fix now? What am I gonna need? More Pilates, more this, more that? Like what do I need? I want to dig into that a little bit because on January 18th, 2020, January 18th is my birthday. that was your last run. I mean I think that there's some serendipity there. I think so too. And actually you were on my podcast before that and I remember you talking about struggling and I was like Dimity we're gonna get that. We're gonna we're gonna figure this out and I remember you like, I don't know, you know like I don't know the words or if it was after we stopped recording because the thing is, this was your career, like talking about running and keeping people running and doing all these things and it still is. Still is very much. but it had to have been so hard and almost secretly you were dealing with so much more than I think like most of us knew. Yeah, I mean, yes, and I was pretty transparent. I mean, I definitely people who have been around another mother owner, like it's like not like I'm like I'm hobbling around in the pirate boot for like the 17th month. And like I I'll I'll be very clear about how that is and why I have it. And you know, it but it was a little bit like, you know, working in an ice cream store and then all of a sudden telling me being told you're like lactose intolerant, you know, when you're like, What what do I do with this? You know, like I can't sample things anymore. but but you figure it out, you figure it out. And I mean, I knew the one of the things, you know, I know we're gonna talk a little bit about another mother runner, but We really tried and continue to try to help people move forward at the pace that is best for them, right? In the way that works best for their body. And so, you know, on my best days when I was like living, you know, like feeling very good about myself, I'm like, I am teaching people that they can, you know, still be an athlete and go do really big adventures and s and you know, use their running as their foundation. On my really, you know, crappy, like, you know. Chris critical days, I was just like, ugh, this is this, you know, this is terrible. It's really hard. Do you remember that last run? I I do because kind of funny. I have a friend that had two Hamilton tickets. This was 2020, before the before COVID hit. It was January of 2020. And it was the craze everywhere, right? but I hadn't listened. so was like, okay, I have 30 minutes. At that point, I was like doing like a run walk for 30 minutes on a very s nice, soft gravel road, 15 minutes out, 15 minutes back. I'm like, I'm gonna learn Hamilton. So that when I go tonight, I will know what the heck is going on. Were you listening at normal pace or was it like, you know, two times? So I that's what I remember about it. I did not go into that run saying this is going to be my last run. But what I had been doing at that time, I was going out that that road, that gravel path that I was talking about was called the Highline Canal. And I would drive down there. I couldn't handle like that. Used to be my warm-up was a mile to the Highline Canal. But now I'm driving down, parking in the parking lot, a little pissed off that I have to drive there, you know, and then kind of getting my yaas out. But, you know, it wasn't the same. I I don't want to diminish anybody's like, you know, backside of running, but after a while, I'm like. What am I doing here? I'm, you know, running for two minutes, I'm walking for one, my hamstring still hurts. I don't feel good. Like I, you know, this isn't filling my cup the way that it used to. And so that's when I just I got in the car and I was like, I think that's good enough. I think that's good, you know. But it was you know, it wasn't like I had a cake waiting for me at home or anything like that, you know. Well, I think that's that is a big thing because we talk a lot about the physical. needs that this run does for us. But the psych the psychological toll of being chronically injured. You mentioned it already, but you know, injured, then you go to rehab or you go to therapy, whatever. You have this hope. You get you get better, you feel a little bit better from that rest or the recovery. And then the comeback story and you make it maybe close or all the way and then you get injured again. Like that was something that you were kind of on repeat for a long time. Yeah, and it's like I said, it's exhausting. And it's not just exhausting for me, but it's exhausting for everyone who has to live with me, including the dogs, you know, where I'm just like, you know, I mean, so you know, my husband, you know, you know, in the in the 27th mile, I have I talked to over fifty women and I'm I'm not stealing your stealing your notes, I promise you. But but but a couple of them that I talked to, like their partner said to them, like, to what end? Like you're you You're not a sponsored athlete. Like you are not making money from this thing anymore. And you go and you run for 30 minutes and then you have to lie for two days on the couch, you know, with ice bags on your knees. Like, okay, let's let's have a little perspective. and so like that, you know, that kind of that kind of exhaustion is real. and also, you know, again, I'm just yeah, I'm being real. Like I, you know, I went to a ton of races injured and I'm I mean, I again, you know, the those of you who know me or I will cheer you on until, you know, the cows come home. The cows come home and it's not happening anytime so I will cheer you on all day long. But but when you want something and you're also like, you know, I mean, I I knew rationally, like I am here to support women, but then I like get on the plane home and it's taking off and I'm like Crying, you know, and that's like, I mean, I I I can be both things. I can be a great cheerleader and I can be really sad for myself personally. And that's kind of where I spent a lot of time. And it again, I'm and no no guilt here or anything, but that's that was true. I think why we love you, Dimity, is because you're real and you t you tell us how it is no matter what. Yeah, right. And I think that's also us runners, you know, we we depend on each other so much on the run and in life and You know, we're gonna get into that too, but I think that we forget how important this community is. And so I wanna learn a little bit more about how you've been able to still have your community, still talk with your runners. Are you annoyed when we they ask you about gels? Are they annoyed when they ask you about getting into certain races? just those things. And I think that's important for people that are maybe entering the 27th mile to figure out how they can still have their friends in that community. Sure, sure. Yeah, do you want me to talk about that? Yeah, I do. Okay, okay. Go for it. Okay. I mean, that is huge, right? That friendship is even if you don't think it's deep, it is so deep because it's intimate. when you are running next to somebody and your heartbeat is up and you're talking about your eyes are on the road and you're talking about things that if you and I were at coffee right now, I wouldn't be like, my marriage is having a hard time or my kid is really struggling. Like, I mean maybe, but like it's so much easier to do. When you're talking forward and moving forward together. And the depth of those friendships are very immediate. But they can also be, as one sports psychologist told me on the 27th mile, friendships of convenience, which, you know, if you have a best running point, you're like, no, no, we're like, we're we're besties forever. And I hope that you are. But also there is this thing, you know, where you're, you know, it's a shared place, shared goal, shared time. and so they're you know if you are feeling left out and and I you know I write a little like what to do if you've got a running friend in your life who can't run, like reach out to them. Don't don't pretend like they didn't that they're you know that they're just not there and you know you don't care. they may not really want to receive it, and that's okay. but at least you tried. but you know, go for a walk with them, go have a drink, go have a cup of coffee, go play some pickleball, just something. It may not land right. It may not, right? You know, like I again talking to one of the women in the book, she was like, When I see a running friend now in the grocery store, it's like seeing an old colleague from work. You know, it's like you're friendly to them. You want to say hello and catch up for five minutes, but it's not like, you know, you're spilling your guts out to them. And so just open the door for that friendship. It may be there and it may not. And and that's okay. Like, you know, we definitely have different seasons of friends. I think that's a good reminder though for some of us that are still very much in our run journey with our running friends. Like we want to have it be deeper, maybe than just let's go for a four mile run and then, you know, not we might have those stories that we share on the run, but we might need it to be a little deeper because there could be a twenty-seventh mile coming up for someone soon. Yeah, of course. Of course. Yeah. I want to get back into a little bit of the identity piece because I think that for me was a really I mean, I'm still living the life of a runner. Yeah. Like we are very much yay. I'm glad for you. I know you are. And we're very much on different you know, spectrum, whatever there. But I think that for me it is scary to think about life in the 27th mile. Yeah. Right. Because this is my career, much like yours. Your career was very much in the run space. I am an Olympian. I am someone that sort of thrives. Every single day still thinking about the run. I go to bed at night wondering if I'm gonna meet the Horseman Run Club. yeah, 545. Here we go. or am I going to get in, you know, three miles the next like it's just constant, right? I have this kids that are running around. I want to be able to run with them. So let's talk a little bit more about the identity piece. How do you find yourself after the run? Like, how do you still feel like dimity when you don't have it? so You know, running as we've said, it brings so many things to you. It's not it's about performance for sure, but it's about adrenaline, it's about endorphins, it's about setting goals, it's about having structured schedule, it's about friendships, it's about mental health, it's about physical health. You know, I mean, there's just tons of things it can be about, right? and the way that I talk about it and the way that I thought about it for myself is literally I had this box, this cardboard box next to me, and it had all these little small like square jewelry boxes in it and it said, you know, like structure, routine, friendships. They all had different labels on them. And they all fit into that running box, right? Simplicity. Simplicity is so big and running. and what I had to do is like pick them up, take unpack each one and find something that it would fit in over here. Right. And so like all those things are still in me and all those things are super important to me, but they don't come in this nice, neat prime package delivered in 24 hours or 24 minutes really. so like it's you know, so you know, being outside, hiking, you know, setting goals, cycling maybe. I mean the thing about it is is what you have to know is that that one box doesn't exist on this side anymore. And that's the biggest thing is that you're all I mean, again, this is my experience and what I've heard. So we're looking for that thing to replace running and running is not replaceable. Like that's just the cold hard truth, you know? And so what you can do though is if this is, you know, if this is your A, I say like here's your A, that here's my A box. Everything is in one little package. I love it. I'm over here, I'm looking for like a B minus. Seriously. And that's I mean, just lower your standards a little bit. and that's gonna be helpful in the long run, right? And did you just hear they're lowering the s the grading scale now? are they really? Yeah. So maybe they it's on trend. It's on trend. Yeah. the other thing too is to think that it's may not come in all the same places. I mean, I've used this example a lot, but I love it. Like my community now is Mahjong. Hello, old white lady right here. because I am doing it. I mean, some I'm I'm I play in the neighborhood with a lot of the women that I used to run with, and certainly some of them are still running. But I have their company now, right? And we're out and and it's not it's not as much chatter, of course, because you can't use your brain. but like that's my community, really. It's truly my community. And then the other boxes fit a little bit more neatly, but that's that's my biggest takeaway. I think what was interesting in the book was, you know, you're as you were going through your 27th mile, like you know, you were in this space of there's menopause or parametopause. Your children are getting ready to leave the home or they're in college. you have aging parents. Like there's heavy stuff and sometimes that run is just the fix. Even if it's the 20 minute run, which is my favorite thing to do in life. Like, you know, like that is a tough time for us to be going. I mean, it's just like, you know, like it's like you know, taking a screw and twisting it super, super tough. It's okay. It's okay. Yeah. I mean, it's a huge time of transition. And, you know, I'm not a psychologist, but I can tell you, we as humans, based on what I've you know, read about is we don't like change. I I personally love change, but the rest of us, you the rest of you guys don't know. I'm kidding. but yeah, we don't like change, right? Even if it's like positive change, even if like, okay, I got my dream job in New York City and I'm going there, you're still upending everything. You're upending your community, you're upending your like where you're gonna eat, how you're gonna shop, like everything, right? And so you feel unsettled. And the point is, is that you have to kind of get from point A to point B and give yourself time. To do that. And with with running, I mean, you know, I there's no scientific survey yet, but it's a year. I mean, that's really what I will say is most people that I talk to, it takes about a year to go from, my God, I'm gonna I might run over that runner in my car because I'm so angry that she's out doing what I want to be doing. No, you know, I'm I don't I don't propose that, but you know, you can shoot bullets from your eyes. That's okay. I can do that. and then to like my gosh, there's a group of women running. God, I wish I were there, but may they run well, may they be well, may they be happy. I hope they're having a good run. And it takes time and it takes work and it takes intention. Yeah. You have a lot of women in the book that share their stories. How many women did you have? I was over fifty. Yeah. Yeah. So h tell us about the book and like how you found these fifty women and any kind of insight you can tell. sure, sure. Well, so when I pitched it, first that was a really hard book to get published because nobody wants to talk about loss. Like it's you know, we want to talk about how to run a marathon, how to be your fastest, go do a high rocks, you know, like keep achieving, achieving, achieving. And I'm all for that, but I'm also for asking yourself, like, does it serve you? Does it it used to serve you, is it still serving you, and is it what you still want? You know, and so so it's hard to sell. And I was like, Well, my story, I mean, it's fine. I mean, I personally think it's amazing, but no, but so do we. That's why you're sitting here. But I mean, my story was just a slow fade, right? It was like a slow fade from Monday doctors set telling me to consider not running anymore to just like, okay, 10 miles a week. Okay, I'm gonna try one more race. Okay, you know, and it wasn't You know, what there's not a lot of drama around it, except for internally. There's a lot of internal drama. So what I wanted to do was get other women to tell their stories because you know, when you are going through this, as with a lot of things that involve grief and loss, is you feel like you are alone and you're the only one that's ever been that ever to run. And I am in the Twin Cities marathon and now I can't even do it. It's like, go cheer. my God, this is so hard. And it is really hard. It is really hard. But you feel like you're by yourself. And so I wanted to validate people's stories. I wanted to help them. And I wanted to just kind of show them that there is that other side. And because I think a lot of us runners get very like, we're very type A. I run or I don't run, right? And and biking is cross-training and strength training is cross-training, and it's all in the service of the run, right? tell me like Were there themes that you saw in the book, like when you got to know these women a little bit too? Is there Yeah, yeah. I mean, there was a lot of grief. There was a lot of grief because going back to that identity, like it is it makes you special, you know. As I don't care what kind of endurance athlete you are, that not many people are endurance athletes, and it makes you very special. And you're talking about putting it on your resume and putting it, you know, like, you ran the Twin Cities Marathon, like automatically you know who that person is. She's motivated. She sets goals. She knows how to get up early and, you know, push herself and all those things. So and I lost. so so I saw a lot of grief. And I saw a lot of people who didn't want to talk about it. I mean, they came to me and talked about it because I gave them 20 questions to fill out. And then I interviewed them for an hour and I was like, we're gonna go there. So get ready. but really, most people don't talk about it. And that's the, I mean, a lot of them would say like, my gosh, like I feel so much better after filling out your survey, after talking to you for an hour. It was like a therapy session. And I'm like, okay, well, awesome. I mean, I'm glad. But that's that's the kind of thing that you can do for yourself as well. But you have to be willing to say, my God, I'm really struggling and I'm not sure I'm gonna be able to run anymore. And and do that with a trusted friend. Was were there any stories that stuck out to you? I I I hate to ask that because I know they're all special to you, but do you have There's so many good ones. I mean, the one that comes to mind the most though is a nun. Okay. actually has to stop. This was good. I I already spoiled it's not a very good storyteller, but I'm not typing. but anyway this woman, okay, so and I'm forgetting her name right now. Shoot. Anyway. That's but I love that part. I don't well so okay. sister Joan, but she's not Sister Joan. She's Joan right now. Thank you, Sean. Okay, so she is Joan for her 50th birthday. This is a time of Oprah. Okay. So Oprah is big, big, big. I mean it's And and so she was talking about Canyon Ranch Resorts in Arizona, which is a very like high end health spa. So Joan is turning 50 and decides that she and her best friend are gonna go there. Okay. and she's been off and on on fitness. Like she's done some bike tours, she ran a little bit, you know, she's not she's kind of like, you know, she she's fit and then she's not, she's fit and then she's not. And so then she wasn't always a nun. She was yeah, I in her life. So she gets to okay, I'll speed it up. Sorry. No, that's okay. So Joan, so Joan gets to Canyon Rance, she takes a VO2 max test. The guy was like, Holy cow, you have a Ferrari engine and a Ford Escort body. Like that is I mean, that's really what she said. So so she like takes this, Joan takes this and is like, all right, I've got my mission, let's go. So for 10 years, like she hires a coach, she wants to go under two hours and the half marathon. I mean, she's doing speed work, all this stuff, but she also is, has another mission, and she's very religious and very devoted to God. And so she decided that she needed to become a nun. And and so basically, long story short, she joined a very traditional. convent that does not allow it's not like sister act, you know, where they're out doing their singing their songs and enjoying their lives. it's more like you know, she could run, she she doesn't get any conventional clothes anymore, like literally zero. So she could run in her habit if she wanted to, but the her her practice is based in LA and if she was out running in LA you know with our phones now, that's gonna draw a lot of attention to her, which is not okay. So She has a step in her room from you know reebox step aerobics up down up down and some weights and literally wakes up and does her own little weight workout. But she had a very, very hard time getting there because she had so much untapped potential in her running still. I s I think she's felt like she had so many years to go. so we emailed a lot. and that was really special. unfortunately, you know, she can't send me a picture of herself or anything, but it is very true. Sis she's sister Michael Ann now. I remember that. That is awesome. I loved her story. you know, I think that grief is something that we don't talk about when it comes to this. Yeah. Or any sport or, you know, maybe other things that we love in life. So the women in the book, well, how did they deal with their their grief? Well, so it's interesting. Again, I did s a lot of research around it. And it's called disenfranchised grief, this kind of grief where you have a feeling that something that you lost really matters to you, but the world, our society doesn't validate it. So it's like loss of hope, loss of religion, loss of a dream. you know, it could be a miscarriage, just things that are not It could be the loss of affair, actually. That's the one that kind of got me. And I'm like, that makes sense. It's really important to you, but society's probably not gonna be like you're gonna be okay. Anyway, the point is, is that it is, you know, nobody sends you a card that, you know, that says, you know, sorry you couldn't run the half marathon, or here's take some paid time off. You know, like it doesn't go that way. So the grief is real and again, it it sneaks up on you. And that's, you know, again, like you You get it at unexpected times. Like you see somebody in the supermarket wearing her cute little, you know, track smith suit or whatever, and you're just like, I want to do that, you know, and all of a sudden you're in the parking lot crying, you know? Or, you know, seeing runners on the road is a real thing. you know, and so that grief it it comes out at you. And then eventually as you kind of learn to transition and and you get a little bit away from that running schedule, it gets a little bit easier. Did you have to unfollow some? Because a couple of people in the book talked about that, unfollowing some of the influencers or their runner friends, or some were fine. They love the pro side of the sport. So they really dug into that. So they found, you know, their pro runners that they maybe couldn't relate to, but they could still cheer on and things like that. Did Yeah. I I I didn't I I I wouldn't unfollow, I would mute so that we mute. but Did you do that to me? I didn't. I didn't. I'm still right there, Carrie. I'm still right there. I'm still right there. I gotcha. I gotcha. but I know not to hop on social media around major marathons. Okay. the Boston Marathon, the New York City marathon. and again, it's not that I'm like mad, I'm just sad, right? You know, you're like, I want to be that. I did all the things right to be there. I want to be there. So One sports psychologist that I talked to suggested muting people or just taking like the social media off your phone, making it inaccessible, and then you can decide, you know, if you want to unfollow people. But you know, it definitely, you know, it can get people's blood boiling for sure. And and not in again, like not in a mad way, but just like a just a kind of, you know, unmoored, sad way. Yeah, I want to know what your husband had to say. About what? I mean January eighteenth, twenty two. Daniel, I know I I just it was So yeah, I mean you say that we're the same, we're not the same. I mean you have like five Olympic rings on your you know, I mean I so I think Grant is the name of my husband. I think he was also probably relieved. I mean, you know, it's I created a little mini soap opera in my house, you know, I mean all you know, a lot. And I think that he I mean, I I did get to run for thirty years. I mean, that's not insignificant. And so like I know that he I mean, he supported me through everything and and helped me do a lot of things I didn't think I could do. And then also I think that he, you know, you can see the toll it's taking on you, you know, or on a loved one. So, you know, but it wasn't we again like it, you know, it kind of came and went. It wasn't like I It's once I started to kind of put all the pieces together and be like, I wonder if this could be useful to somebody that that's I mean, I I started this book with a s an article for Women's Running magazine and I had to go back to my Strava to know that it was that day. So so it really wasn't like, you know, I wasn't journaling about it or anything like that. Yeah. That's interesting. I I often wonder what Charlie I mean, Charlie and I got married after a long stretch of my planner fasciatis. Yeah. And I was like, if he can walk down the aisle with me, we have made it, you know, because it was it was not easy for him. I wanna talk a little bit about what you're doing now to replace it. In the book you talk a little bit about what how you were transitioning, but still even now, like I'm hearing about this epic swim that you might take. Yeah, yes. You're doing all kinds of really cool things. Well that's I want I mean, one of my values is adventure, right? Like over Overrunning my value is adventure. Like that is something I want to have in my life forever. And so even I've always been adventurous. Yeah, I love that. But that's yeah, that's my that's my jam. Not all of us are. Yeah, no, I understand that. I understand. What's one thing that's that's not a trail run that has you kind of interested? I mean, like I am deathly afraid of cross country skiing, even like There are hills. Yep. I got a friend over here for you. I know somebody in the crowd that might have someone that can help me. But I mean, like, I'm afraid of all of that stuff. Even mountain biking. The I was out mountain biking the other day. I don't feel my feet on the ground. And it's so it scares me. Okay. So I gotta hear what you're doing to get that thrill of done. Well, so I am going to swim. My new friend Greta and I. I just met her, but she's going to? Yes. Okay, sorry. It's it's called the the Great Superior Swim. It's this coming weekend. Anyone someone else doing it here? fun. In Minnesota, don't you know? you did the point to point. Yeah, I wanted to do point to point, but it sells out in like a half second. Yeah. So that's why I think they started the Great Superior Swim. So it's basically swimming along the shore of in Duluth Harbor. Yeah. and you can go one, two, or three point seven miles. and I'm not I'm not gonna swim 3.7. I mean, I haven't really trained for this at all. I'm I'm being honest. Of course. but but it's gonna be fun. You get to wear a wetsuit and I get to be in Cold Lake Superior, which is great. But I think but but to back up a little bit to be a little bit more of service to people who are thinking about this is when you if you like to train for things, if that is your thing, right? You like the routine, you like a training plan, you like the structure it brings to your life, you need to be more proactive. than your running days because you can pick up, you know, a half marathon, a marathon, a 10K, 5K, you know, mm multiple times in a month, right? Like you're just like, I wasn't ready for that half marathon. I'm just gonna switch it back a couple more weeks. That is not the case with like cycling, which is something I like to do. swimming, you know, open water events are very they're pretty rare. and then, you know, and hiking is different. you know, you can set your own goals and do on your own time. But but that's that is one thing that you have to be, you know, it's the opportunities aren't quite as numerous. A lot of the n your newer activities though are pretty much like you with the movement, like you in the water swimming, you on your bike. It's not like, you know. Chatty Kathy out on a run. No, no, no, no. Yeah. So you miss the, you know, you still have the community if that's important to you, but it's not the same. I mean, you can't, I mean, certainly, yes, you can ride two by two and talk for a little bit on a bike, but it's not the same as running, right? and so otherwise you're gonna annoy everyone on the path or get hit by a car. We don't want either of those. and so and swimming, yes, your head's in the water, but I really enjoy swimming because that's that sensory deprivation that you don't, you know, especially with, you know, their phones and everything. It's just such a nice, you know, just escape under the water. you do have to find your community though. I mean, that's that's it's hard, right? You know, you have to kind of put yourself out there. It's a little bit like Sarah Beau and Shay and I used to talk about like you have to kind of date to find a best running friend, and you have to date to find, you know, a cycling club or a hiking club or whatever feels good. Yeah. I want to. Ask the audience, is there anyone here that's in their twenty-seventh mile? Or would you be willing to share a few things with us? Okay. I think we have here, we have a microphone right here. or if you do we have someone that'll run? Can can run the microphone? Yeah. we're gonna have a couple people run the microphone around. But I just have a couple of questions and you can even answer. Maybe we'll start with you. no, actually, and then we'll crowd. Okay. I'm gonna ask you first. Okay. What do you miss about running? And we're gonna ask you these same questions the same questions. I miss the last mile. And like coming and just knowing how good I'll feel when I'm like standing on the porch of my house and just that that endorphin accomplished I'm a badass, I'm a rock star feeling. Yeah. What do you not miss about running? I mean injuries for sure. And the pressure and the pressure of having a bee so black and white, running is so black and white. You know, you're either getting faster, you're getting slower. You're you know exactly how far you've gone. Like it's just the the nonstop numbers can be a lot, especially if you're not feeling good. I think you kind of shared this, but what's your favorite way to move now? I mean, I do love to buy my bike. I have a gravel bike now. I quite like her. and I like to swim. I mean, I and I'm strength training a lot more and that feels good. What would you tell someone who's scared about giving up running? There's another side. It's gonna be hard. It's gonna be hard, but you have a 27th mile. All right. So you're in your 27th mile. Tell us a little bit about your journey. Hi. Hi. You're on. Okay. I'm Amy. I was in the book. Yes, she was. You were? How cool. So yeah. I I think my last run was January of twenty twenty three. And it was sort of like You know, constant injuries. I'd been in physical therapy for a while and I got to the point where a I thought my physical therapist was more invested in getting me back running than I was. And then I just realized that there were other things I wanted to explore. Yeah. You're really into Taekwondo. Yes. I just got my fourth degree back in March. that's so cool. So I'm gonna quickly go through these four questions. What do you miss about running? the ability to just go out the door. And get a good workout in. Yeah. Short and sweet sometimes is all you need. What do you not miss about running? Planner fish sites. I don't miss that either. what's your favorite way to move now? Is it taekwondo? It's taekwondo, and I'm also on a master swim team. And so I never had a best running friend, but I had now have a best swimming friend. fun. And what would you tell someone who's scared about giving their their running career up? There's so many other ways to move, and something else is gonna bring you joy. And it might take you a while to find it, but you'll find it. I love that. Anyone else? Is there another hand? Yeah. Let's move on. Hi, I'm Sarah. And I I actually don't even remember when I had my last run. and so what a great place to be that it's not top of mind anymore. Yeah. yeah, but I hurt myself both in running and doing CrossFit and that was kind of the end of of my running career. Yeah. And I started running in junior high I ran cross country and ran marathons and a whole bunch of half marathons and I love the Twin Cities ten mile. and I'm not gonna do another race. What do you miss about it? well I miss like getting up in the morning. I r had a paper out when I was a kid and so that routine of getting up and you know I think I learned from Dimity to just put the clothes out and you just put on and then you go. And so I would meet these gals and we just hit the road. Right. What do you not miss then? Being hurt. Yeah. Yeah. And just the frustration that you can't hit the goals that you're hoping for. And I think that's part of getting older, but it's also just like, goodness, this is not happening for me. It's not, it's not gonna be there. So I don't know if we've heard this, but do you have a new favorite way to move? I do a lot of hiking. We go to McAllister Stairs once a week. And your body handles the stairs. yeah. Yeah. Well, mostly. See? I know. No, I was walking with a friend here yesterday and we were like at the one and a half mile turnaround and I was like, I gotta slow it down. Yeah, yeah. and I just do strength workouts in my basement and open the garage door and the neighbor might see that I'm down there, and so she'll just dip in. I love that. So you still have community. Yeah. And I think that's what's on the other side is that, you know, you do find you find ways. I'm an organizer. I like to find people. So it's like, okay, who's gonna do this hike on Saturday or who let's go to Duluth and do this the Grand Traverse. So you have to put effort in and make be a good cheerleader to have people do it. But I think other people are slowing down in different ways as as we get into middle age. And so how do you encourage people to join you? I love it. Thank you guys for sharing. I want to go back to you, Dimit Dimity. Another Mother Runner. Yeah. That's still around. It is still around. Yeah. Tell us what's happening with it. yeah. So Sarah and I celebrated our 15th anniversary with another mother runner last June 2025. And we were so proud, we are so proud of all the work that we put in with it. we had so many training plans, a great, I mean, just an amazing community. Like I look around here and I just I get a lot of Really good feels. And it was, you know, time for us to just consider what was best for each of us individually. We were a package for so long. And, you know, like I said, I mean, I had so many joyous days at AMR. I'm definitely like even when I was hurt, it was it is a great job. It was a great job. It brought me so much fulfillment. And also I just needed to like we get to have chapters in our lives, right? And 15 years of a chapter is pretty damn long and really, really great, right? and I didn't I shouldn't have sweared, sorry. Sworn. I'm getting all nervous. so very proud of that. And we were sold to a company called Feisty Media. and Feisty is an amazing company out of British Columbia, and they have their goals are to increase the presence of women's sports, increase more people doing women's sports. I mean anything about research about women's sports, women athletes, like they are on it. And so they also have a lot of a great family of podcasts. And so another Mother Runner podcast is now under that umbrella. and they're doing a running retreat. I mean it's definitely, you know, half it's more than half of just the community is still showing up and that's gonna be great for everybody. I love that. Are you ready for a game? I certainly am. Are you ladies and gentlemen and everyone else out there ready for a game? Okay. This is gonna be our we you all got one of these, a thumbs up and a thumbs down. Okay. So everybody has their paddle. Do we need anyone? Does anyone need one? Raise their hand without their paddle. If you need one. Okay, I think we're good. So I'm gonna give you a statement. Green thumbs up is yes, right? You're in. You you b you agree. the red thumbs down means you're not. Dimity, I, we're Dimity and I are gonna play as well. We're playing. And if you disagree with Dimity, she has to explain herself and defend herself. Okay. Wait a minute if anybody disagrees with me? Yeah, if anyone out here. So then you have to defend your answer. Okay. All right. Okay. So we're gonna do three rounds. Are you ready? Menopause is a breeze. And gentlemen, you can answer as well. I mean I agree, I agree, like it's true. It's a menopause is not a breeze. This is what I'm saying. Menopause. menopause is not a breeze. Yes. Wow. Menopause. Menopause sucks. Yep. Here are you. Okay, treadmill running. Yes, you're in. Red, green, you're in. we have some. I I'm a green. You like treadmill. I especially for speed work. I liked it a lot for speed work. I thought it was a good tool. and I like it now for hiking. Like I like to be able to watch my, you know, Love Island. Not on Love Island. What's the show where they where they meet through the door? Love Love is Blind. Love is Blind. I do love a good Love is Blind episode. goodness. So that's what we should do. Thumbs up for Love is Blind or Love's Down for Love Is Blind. Okay, okay. Okay, next one. Running without a watch. We're kind of that generation. So what do you guys say? I'm in. I'm in for that. I am too, but I don't think I obey it very often. No, I mean I don't either, but I like the idea of it. We like the idea of it. Okay. Okay. Running with music. I mean, yes. Really? I kinda still old school no, huh? I mean, every now and then I will, but yeah, we're kind of fifty fifty on that. Okay. Coffee before a run. Absolutely not. I'm not. Do you drink coffee? I drink, I drink the menopausal drink of choice. Do you wanna know what that is? What is You might need to write this down. it is a soy milk latte, 'cause you gotta have the estrogen, two decaf espresso because you can't have caffeine anymore because you don't wanna disturb your sleep. and then two scoops of collagen. And then I sneak in like a little bit of sugar because God, I need a little bit of sugar. okay. We're gonna have to put that recipe out. beer after a run. we pre I don't drink, but because we're here at Summit, I'm gonna say, Yeah Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, stopping your garment at stop lights. Do we do that? Yeah, we don't care. You care. We don't care? Well, I mean I care. Yeah, you care. Okay, matching running outfits with your bestie. all the way. All the way. Katie McGregor and I used to train together. Katie's won like, I don't know, 10 U.S. championships, made a number of teams, and she would turn around and run the other way if I had the same outfit on as her. You didn't say you just that was just random. She's Yeah, well, we both were sponsored by Adidas, and we'd be all excited if we got our new kits and things. Yeah. And so we'd meet on the Cedar Lake Trail. I live downtown. She lived in St. Louis Park. And she would literally go the other way if you saw me coming. So I like it though. She would say d thumbs down for sure. Wearing your race shirt in the race. I say this too. I'm a no. I'm a hard no on that. I like to save it. Okay. Buying running shoes because they're cute. no, I'm a hard one. Well you wear what's good for your feet. Well, because my feet, I again I'm 6'4. So I won't tell my shoe size on the air, but I wear well, I will. That's okay. I'm a 12 men's. So I basically like wear what I can wear. Yeah. Yeah. I mean the good news is that there's some cute men's shoes now. Okay. Yeah. This is the last one for round one. Taking a race photo seriously. So like, do you? Make sure that you look good. I'm gonna say no. No, well no. And the thing about it is is when you're trying to make yourself look good, that's when I always look worse, right? I don't think I ever had one nice race photo. Like they didn't have the live, you know, edit type thing. And I was always like, You get stuck. Do you do you do you still race? Can you get a good live race? No. No, you run a lot. Yeah, I still run. I still like to run, but I don't really love to race anymore. Okay. Round two, runner confessions. Have you ever run faster on an easy day because someone passed you? a thousand percent. Really? Okay. I I I just maybe more swear under my breath. And I swear either. I don't drink and I don't swear. But when runners tick me off, then I probably will pass them back. Okay. Have you ever uploaded a run because you wanted someone specific to see it? No, a lot of no's. Totally. Have you studied where every porta potty is on your run? Yeah. You don't have a no? I I I kind of know where they are. I guess I haven't studied it, but I know. I know where you can definitely study. Okay. To know where porta potties are. Have you ever rounded your mileage up from like 5.97? a thousand percent. Yeah. Is there anyone that doesn't do that? there's yeah. Good for you guys. I can't do that. Well, tell you, okay. So you're out for five, okay. You ran 5.7 miles. 5.79. Do you someone asks you how far you ran? Do you say 5.79? Or do you say six? Yeah, well, so that you're rounding, my friend. I know. Yeah. I do. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Show me the green. Show me the green. Yeah. Okay. Have you ever checked somebody else's Strava and thought, hmm, that was not an easy run? Totally. We have Strava checkers up in here. Yeah, we do. Like pretty much everyone. Yeah. Okay. Have you ever said you were gonna take a rest day and then ran anyway? of course. Everyone. See, this is what I when I went through my notes after I'm like, everyone's gonna say dunk that for all of them. Okay, round three. These are the good ones. Okay, okay. Now we're really getting. Yes. Okay. Have you ever ate extra nerd clusters because we're getting our carbs? Yes. Okay. This is you know, a little bit of an old teal. Okay. Have you ever drank Diet Coke and eat Twix bars for lunch after a run? Was it Twix bars? it was cook it was chocolate chip cookies actually. Or peanut M's too. That was in the book. That's another little giveaway. how about this? Have you would you prefer childbirth or for the guys out there, kidney stones over a marathon? False. False. I would say false too. I had my first kidney stone. my gosh, this is a good story. Last year, a year ago exactly. I had my first kidney stone. I was trying to run it out like crazy. Had two CAT scans. Is that what you get? I think when you have those? CT scans? CT scans, yeah. And it wasn't coming out. I was going to Mexico a week later. So I was running, running, running, doing everything I could on all kinds of meds, spending all kinds of money. And then I finally read that if you jumped on a tre or on a trampoline, it could dislodge it. Guess what happened? A half an hour after doing toe touches on the trampoline, it came out. Wow. Wow. Toe touches on the trampoline. Yeah. What are those? Like seat? Toe touches like this. Okay. 18 minutes. I did it. my well. There went my my phone. So I would much rather run a marathon any day over a kidney stone. last one. Letting go of runners you used to be, letting go of the runner you used to be and celebrating the athlete you are today. a thousand percent. Let's go, let's go. Yeah. Okay, we are gonna, now that I dropped my phone, we're gonna do a quick selfie. I forgot I have one more question. Keep getting after it or keep getting after it. Hold that green up. Let's go right here. Here we go. Everybody get in it. We're doing a quick selfie. Ready? With your thumbs up. One, two, three. Yay. Okay. Thank you for playing with us. We have a couple last questions here, Dimity. Okay. Dimity, in your book, you asked everyone to s to write six words. Did you study this? I'm I I didn't, but I can come up with that. Six words of advice that you could leave us all with. Be well this is it's it's okay. I know, I know, I'm not gonna say it's okay. Don't don't suffer. don't suffer, be healthy, be strong. There's six. There's six, yeah. Don't suffer, be healthy, stay strong. Yep. I love that, you guys. Yes, right here. Right here for Dimity. Hey Diminy, thank you so much for all that you do for this space, for any type of endurance space, any type of sports space. We love you. We're so thankful that you're from Minnesota. Thank you. thank you to Twin Cities in Motion to Summit Brewing to our audience. Everyone, we so appreciate it. We want you to keep getting afterlife, whether you can still run or if you are on that 27th mile. Diminy has some books available here. We're gonna be around. We have time to get some more drinks and to hang out. There's more food back here. But thank you again for coming tonight. We appreciate you all. Thank you very much, you guys. C Tolle Run: Thank you so much for joining me today on CTOLIRON. And thank you to everyone who came out to be a part of the live audience and to everyone that made this event and episode happen. If you would like to find Dimity on social, you can find her at Dimity on the Move. A big thank you to Rundot for supporting the show and to our amazing producers, Andrew Harley and Sarah Bernie. Another big shout out to Tailwind Nutrition for supporting this episode. Head on over to TailwindNutrition.com and use the code TOLLY20 for 20% off your order. And I just want to remind you that if you enjoy This episode, please leave us a rating and review at ctalirun.comslash review. And then you know you can find us at YouTube, Facebook, X, and Instagram at CTallyrun or at Carrie Tullifson. And again, you can always head on over to ctallyrun.com. thanks so much for listening and watching today. And until next time, make sure to get after it.