Latest / The Marketing Brief / Nikki and Brian Explore Transformations and How AI is Just the Latest Disruption (S2 E1)
Transcript
- Brian Aucoin: Marketing Brief podcast. am your host Brian Akwan. And this is the podcast where we briefly touch on topics across the marketing landscape. As always, we're joined by an industry expert and we're very excited to be joined by Nikki Barua today. Welcome into the podcast, Nikki. and we're excited to have you. I know you've got a lot of stuff that you're involved in. You are a self-described serial entrepreneur, so I'd love to hear about kind of what you're working on right now. Nikki Barua: Hi, Brian. I'm so thrilled to be here. I feel like everything I've ever done in my life has led me to this moment. you know, I've co-founded and I currently lead Flipwork, which is, you know, really coined the term, agentic human reinvention. Because as much as we were talking about how AI is disrupting every space, the real challenge is how do humans adapt to AI and reinvent themselves to think, work and lead differently? And Flipwork is the operating system for upgrading the human, you know, to, to prepare you for this future. And it's been incredibly exciting having been in transformation for more than two decades of my career and been through every single wave of tech led disruption to see what's happening today is absolutely mind blowing. And it is both the greatest disruption of modern human history. And at the same time, The great equalizer. If you know how to leverage it and align with it and co-evolve with AI, there's absolutely nothing you can, you know, any dream that you can bring to life. And that's really exciting space to be in. Brian Aucoin: Yeah, I love that you brought that up as a point because we often talk about how the playing field is being leveled by AI and Fortune 500 companies are being challenged by upstart companies because the tools are there for them to use. I'd love to start here though. I think when people hear AI, they are maybe sometimes worried or they're thinking if I'm pro AI, am I anti-human? Right. So I talk about how AI kind of has a brand problem. Nikki Barua: Yeah. Brian Aucoin: Big AI, if that existed, right? There's a brand problem. Is that something you have to speak to in your business? I mean, you're going into enterprise situations, so is that something that you have to face? Nikki Barua: Yeah. You know, it's easy to make it that binary to say you're either pro-AI and anti-human or the reverse. But the reality is that every phase of civilization has been the result of some major change that disrupted the status quo that we as humans naturally resisted until the value outpaced the pain of change. And then we adapted to that and then we saw greater value in it. And for a while it was, you know, steady state until the next disruption happened. So I think we're just going through that. think this is the period of that painful change where we haven't quite let go of the old way and we haven't quite stepped into the new way just yet. And what causes uncertainty and discomfort for human beings is that in between. It's the unknown because That's the time when we are holding on to our old identities, our old mindset, our old skillset, our old behaviors, and we haven't quite built all the new things yet. So the unknown is not a place where humans naturally thrive. And that's frankly the only reason why all of this is happening. But we are quickly seeing the adaptation come into place and we will find ourselves in a whole new world in the next three to five years. Brian Aucoin: Absolutely. I don't know if you're familiar with very popular author Yuval Noah Harari, talks about how right now is the first time for humans where we don't know what the future is for us, right? It's very uncertain for all of us. Nikki Barua: It is so true. Yeah, it is so true. And, you know, you can't go into it seeking certainty, because if you do, you're in for a world of hurt because you're going to be disappointed and have difficulty adjusting to that. But if you go in with an explorer mindset where you consider it a grand adventure, you're excited about learning, you're willing to adapt to whatever comes your way. It offers you a blank canvas where you can literally become anything. And single person. Brian Aucoin: I agree with you there. I've been reading about something lately that I'd love to get your thoughts on. was listening to economists talk about the, we got to look at a lump labor fallacy, which basically says the jobs we have now are the only jobs, right? And if you look at it that way and that automation is coming for some of those jobs, you're like, well, then there'll be fewer jobs, right? Nikki Barua: Mm. Mm-hmm. Brian Aucoin: But what the fallacy part of it is, is that more jobs are created because of technology as well, right? I think anyone who's spent their life in technology and I've spent my life in digital marketing and media knows that the only constant is change and that things will constantly change. Is that something that you talk to businesses about? I know you do, you're not working in the DTC space, so it's more you're talking enterprise level. Nikki Barua: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, the point about labor transitions is really fascinating because this in the next three years or so, roughly about 90 million jobs will disappear. But at the same time, about 170 million new jobs will be created. So on one hand, it's a net positive. You know, there's more jobs being created. Important thing to keep in mind, though, is it's not the same skill set that is coming back in demand. if you are displaced because you fall in that 90 million jobs that disappear, unless you re-skill and reinvent, you're not going to be part of that new demand being created. And that's the important thing to consider. And history is a great teacher, right? Like if you even, you don't even have to go too far back. Think about when the internet wave came about and e-commerce took shape and all of that. or even social media. I mean, our grandparents' generation had never heard of something called an Instagram influencer. That being an actual career choice that is high income, right? None of, or an e-commerce strategist. What is that? There are lots of jobs that literally never existed until a certain kind of technology enabled that to happen. So we're going to see the exact same thing happen. We will see a tremendous prosperity and abundance because of AI. with a lot more opportunity and a lot of new things created. But for that, you have to let go of the old playbook, shed the old mindset and step into being that kind of person that is aligned with where the wave is going. Brian Aucoin: And is that generally how you approach going into businesses and talking about becoming more agentic? Nikki Barua: Yeah, exactly. And that's often the biggest challenge that large enterprises face because investing in technology is the easy part, right? It's pretty clear big enterprises have to invest in all of the AI tools and systems and enable their environment for doing that. But the bigger challenge is how do you shift how your people operate? How do you shift? how work gets done, how people think in solving problems or making decisions, changing the human is the bigger challenge. And the traditional approach of old school change management is also pretty outdated. So even that doesn't work because you don't have the luxury of long transformation engagements like 18, 24 months to go through this. When Claude models are getting updated every other week, you've got to keep up with that kind of... pace of change. And so the real challenge is getting people to understand the speed at which this is happening. And no matter how uncomfortable they are, getting comfortable, metabolizing change at that speed and shifting their identity mindset and behaviors so that they can become these agentic leaders that aren't just thinking about the work they used to do, but thinking about how they work with AI as a teammate. that thinks alongside them, that works alongside them. And once they make that shift, it's incredible how much exponentially capable they become. And that's that whole process. take them through a very structured step-by-step, agentic reinvention process and to see how their own self-belief and the self-worth changes as a result of that. is truly breathtaking because they started the process saying, I'm trying to hold on to my past, right? Because it's threatening to let go of that. So there is a resistance initially. within weeks, they transform. And then it's like this whole new world opens up to them. And often we see their energy shift because instead of feeling like, I've got like 20, 30 years of experience, you know, now I'm thinking about retirement. We see this resurgence of excitement and energy come back. because they feel like they're day one rookies where anything is possible. Brian Aucoin: that's really cool. I imagine a huge part of this is education when you go in and start to talk to workforces. But what is that re-skilling process? Like, what's that practical work that you do with employees? Nikki Barua: Yeah. Yeah. When, when you think about, traditionally working with any new technology, we had to learn how to use that technology, right? Whether it's a CRM system, ERP system, you learn how to use it. What's different with AI is you're not just learning it, you're teaching it too. Because what your inputs are pretty much determine what your outputs and what the quality of the output is going to be and learning how to teach it. is very much part of that skill development that happens. And AI is not the kind of thing where you can simply be passive and read a book or watch a video and feel like you've figured it out. It's very much a maker craft. You can be a manager. You got to be a maker. You can't just think about it. You got to build with it. You got to roll up your sleeves and get your hands dirty. And that's not often available. you know, for most people in the workplaces, because yes, they can go for an AI certification course and watch some videos and say, okay, I get the basics of like how LLMs work or what agentic means and how to build a tool, but they haven't actually built it where they feel comfortable doing it. So we kind of take them through this incubator like experience where they're in the safe environment, where they're actually not only learning the core fundamentals, but they're actually building real agentic systems. They're redesigning workflows. They're leveraging a variety of tools that connecting this tool system. And through that process, it's not someone teaching them. They go through this process along with our AI system that works like an AI change agent. Think of it like a 24 seven expert consultant. that's guiding the individual. So if you were going through this process yourself, Brian, it would take you into the space. It's like being in a lab where you get experiment with anything and you don't have to worry about anything breaking, but you're actually building real systems and reinventing how you do work. And it's measuring everything along the way. it's, you know, assessing how much more agentic you've become. So what happens as a result is you're not just getting real work done and, you know, reinventing workflows and building. tools and systems, you're actually getting feedback in a very data-driven way to show how much of an orchestrator you've become. And that's what shifts their identity and builds their confidence. Brian Aucoin: Yeah, that's amazing. Thank you. And so very well explained. Thank you for explaining it that way. I really love your view of AI as a maker craft, because I totally resonate with that, is that you do have to try things and iterate. I think some people probably, there's obviously that first plateau of everyone, like, I'll just replace Google with AI. I've done it. I'm doing it. Nikki Barua: Well, that's why I mean, the first reaction is like treating every like LLM like a glorified search engine, right? Like this is just a better Google. And if you're stuck at that level, you haven't even scratched the surface. But there's no way to figure out all those things until you build it, you struggle with it, it fails, you fix it, you iterate through that process. That's what actually builds competency. And like any competency development, you like you go through that initial stage where you're Brian Aucoin: Yeah. Right. I know. Mm-hmm. Nikki Barua: It's like unconscious incompetence, and you don't even know what you don't know. And I think that's where most people are. And then it becomes you start to do a little bit, and it's like conscious incompetence. And you're like, oh my gosh, I really suck at this. This is hard, and I don't know what I'm doing. And then you suddenly become like you start to build a skill, and your unconscious and confidence comes into play. And finally, you become aware. And that's when you're a truly agentic leader, and you're like, I am now leading a hybrid team of humans plus agents. And now that is what allows me to orchestrate outcomes. And it's such a mind shift. The moment you get there, you look at the world differently and it just opens up a whole, there's a creative faculty that opens up where you start to see possibilities for your business, not just for getting work done. It just shifts your mindset around. business strategy and modes and culture and capabilities. Brian Aucoin: Amazing. Thank you. Yeah, I really, I really resonate with that. I usually like to ask my guests a question. We are now on season two of the marketing brief podcast. So I'm updating the question to what is your superpower? Do you have an idea of kind of what your superpower is in business or your personal life? Nikki Barua: In business and in life, it's the same superpower. It's my ability to reinvent over and over again. Every single phase of my life has been the result of reinvention, whether it was me coming to America as an immigrant and needing to reinvent and adapt to it, or learning how to succeed as a corporate executive and reinventing for that, or walking away from that and becoming an entrepreneur. Brian Aucoin: We'll back. Nikki Barua: And sometimes, you know, life forces you to do it. The superpower I actually built was learning to do it on command and not waiting for an external catalyst. Because when you do that, your greatest gift becomes being detached from identity. So much of what keeps us stuck in situations is we look for the safety of identity. It is like an armor you wear and you want to hold on to that. But the moment you let go of that and you're not defined by it, curiosity drives you forward and you shed your ego and you're able to remain humble and learn anything and learn from anyone. And it makes you courageous because you're not attached to the fear of failing because that identity isn't impacted by it. So I've found that reinvention has not only served me well, but I believe it's the mandate of the AI era. Brian Aucoin: Yeah, I believe it'll keep serving you well. So congratulations on that. Thank you so much for joining. I really enjoyed this conversation and really enjoyed how you kind of break things down and explain them. So thanks for being a guest. How do people get in touch with you if they're interested in flip work or just interested in getting in touch with you? Nikki Barua: Yeah, thank you for having me, Brian. Yeah, go to flipwork.ai. There's a phenomenal diagnostic that is available for anyone to take that helps you figure out your AI readiness and where you are on that agentic scale. And that is something, you the greatest gift anyone can give themselves is awareness. If you simply know where you are and you understand where you need to be, you can start taking the steps. So the diagnostic at flipwork.ai is a great place to start. I'd love to connect with people on LinkedIn. and I look forward to continuing to follow this podcast. Brian Aucoin: Yeah, thank you. I agree with you on the awareness thing. I feel like when you are aware that the universe conspires to help you in what you want to become. I'm with you on that. Thank you, Nikki, for joining us and being a guest on the Marketing Brief podcast. I'm your host, Brian Acquan, and stay curious, everyone. Nikki Barua: Thanks for having me, Brian.