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The Death of Luxury Air Travel · Ridiculous History

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Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome
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Speaker 1: to the show, Ridiculous Historians. We always say thank you
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Speaker 1: for tuning in, but in this case especially, thank you
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Speaker 1: very very much. Uh and and thank you Noel for
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Speaker 1: being here too. I'm worries been Um, you're a little
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Speaker 1: farther across the table than I'm used to. I kind
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Speaker 1: of want to. I want to reach out and touch you,
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Speaker 1: but you're just gonna be on my grasp reach out
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Speaker 1: and touch Ben. Ben. I got a question why, More
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Speaker 1: so now than ever, I don't understand what's the occasion? Right,
0:53
Speaker 1: this is not a reference to Fox News, and in
0:56
Speaker 1: no way is this an endorsement of that network. You
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Speaker 1: and I know are here in recording for the first
1:03
Speaker 1: time in sunny l A. We are in the way
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Speaker 1: cooler Los Angeles studios, in our Atlanta digs man. They're
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Speaker 1: pretty cool too. They're you know what, maybe I am
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Speaker 1: accidentally negging because this this is all shiny new car smell.
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Speaker 1: For me, it feels dare I say luxurious. We even
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Speaker 1: have a shiny new car smell super producer that comes
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Speaker 1: with the package. That's right, That's right, Our superproducer, Casey
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Speaker 1: Pegrom as always is here in spirit while he's holding
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Speaker 1: down Atlanta HQ. We are immensely privileged to be joined
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Speaker 1: with our l A super producer, Daniel Goodman. How's it going, Daniel?
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Speaker 1: It's going excellently. Thrilled to be here with you both
1:47
Speaker 1: and we feel the same good Sarah. Is he get
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Speaker 1: his own sound effects since he spoke on the mic? Uh? Yeah,
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Speaker 1: I think so. Can it be like a red hot
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Speaker 1: Chili peppers whammy guitar kind of dive only just because
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Speaker 1: that's the most cliche californ anything I can think of it? Yeah?
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Speaker 1: Are you okay with that? I would be honored truly.
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Speaker 1: This guy's energy right, it does have a good vibe. Um.
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Speaker 1: Speaking of vibes, how do you feel about luxury? I
2:10
Speaker 1: we were talking about this. It's funny because you and
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Speaker 1: I often when we're when we're hanging out, before we
2:16
Speaker 1: start rolling, we end up just shooting the breeze, and
2:20
Speaker 1: then part way through we say, you know what, we
2:22
Speaker 1: should have been recording this. So this is the conversation
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Speaker 1: that we're having earlier. I don't know about you, know,
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Speaker 1: but I have always had a strange relationship with the
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Speaker 1: concept of luxury because luxury itself is so relative and comparative, right,
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Speaker 1: Like in in places where people are starving, being able
2:44
Speaker 1: to eat is a luxury. In places where people are
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Speaker 1: very well to do, small things like a bag of
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Speaker 1: cash shoes might be this luxury. Right. How do you
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Speaker 1: feel about like fine linens and cushions and you know,
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Speaker 1: massages and oils otions. I appreciate it. Don't know why
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Speaker 1: I'm going down this road. I appreciate all of them,
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Speaker 1: except for massages. You know how I am about strangers
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Speaker 1: touching me? But what about you? Man? How about jewels
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Speaker 1: and gold and fine specifically picking stuff that terrified with
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Speaker 1: your with your hands? But yeah, what about you? I
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Speaker 1: don't know, man, I'm I'm I'm. I'm fine with the
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Speaker 1: opulent life, even though I don't live it, but I
3:24
Speaker 1: like looking at other people that live it. Well, we're
3:26
Speaker 1: getting there, and I don't want to put you on
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Speaker 1: the spot. But you know, longtime listeners, you will recall that, uh,
3:32
Speaker 1: my ride or die nol here has a has a
3:35
Speaker 1: past in the opera houses of great renown. You know
3:39
Speaker 1: you moved in some rarefied air. Well. They let me
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Speaker 1: sit in the corner and sniff the rarefied air in
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Speaker 1: a rarefied corner. Yeah, I, um, I've had recently, I've
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Speaker 1: had some weird luxury experiences on airlines. You know, we've
3:57
Speaker 1: talked about this on the show before. You and I
4:00
Speaker 1: have been traveling a lot. Luckily, I think we both
4:04
Speaker 1: enjoy the experience of traveling. I don't know about you. Uh,
4:08
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to sound one percent here or anything,
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Speaker 1: but I tend to sleep better in moving vehicles than
4:14
Speaker 1: I sleep anywhere else I've ever heard in my life.
4:18
Speaker 1: Is it definitely not? But I understand where you're coming from.
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Speaker 1: And Ben, I mean, speaking of luxury, you have been
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Speaker 1: taking a lot of international flights lately, um, and you
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Speaker 1: tend to occupy these more kind of luxury sleeper type
4:34
Speaker 1: cabins because of because of your You've got some connects,
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Speaker 1: right Yeah. Yeah, So I have ended up being a
4:42
Speaker 1: plus one kind of trophy for my girlfriend and as
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Speaker 1: a result, because she works with an airline, as a result,
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Speaker 1: we end up looking out into these, uh, these cabins
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Speaker 1: that I believe I have no business being and I
4:58
Speaker 1: have no business and this class. No, So you're like
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Speaker 1: arm candy for her, is what you're saying. I alright,
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Speaker 1: she has trots you out terrible taste, and dude, it's
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Speaker 1: luckily for me. But I've also noticed that in these
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Speaker 1: these cabins, the foods a little nicer, you get, you know,
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Speaker 1: it's not like just the crave box with your cheese
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Speaker 1: that's in your your yogurt or whatever it is, or
5:17
Speaker 1: your hummus. It's more like a filet and like some vegetables.
5:22
Speaker 1: And there's even a hashtag your gir girlfriend follows called
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Speaker 1: like flight food or something like that. It's a thing. Yeah, yeah,
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Speaker 1: it's the thing. There's this entire community online that just
5:32
Speaker 1: post pictures of different food they eat on airlines, very specific.
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Speaker 1: It's yeah, I love you know, I think we both
5:40
Speaker 1: love very specific communities. And this is this is a
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Speaker 1: crazy when the blogs alone are fantastic. You can you
5:48
Speaker 1: can search any airline past or present, and you won't
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Speaker 1: learn much about the aircraft, but you will learn what
5:54
Speaker 1: what kind of stuff they serve and the business class stuff.
5:59
Speaker 1: What was it? Time is so funny? Times such a
6:01
Speaker 1: flat circle. It was a few weeks ago. I want
6:04
Speaker 1: to say it was a week ago or just just two.
6:07
Speaker 1: When you and I and are a good pal Matt
6:10
Speaker 1: We're sitting down with John Hodgeman and he was telling
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Speaker 1: us about his surreal experience being a a medallion status.
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Speaker 1: He's he's a chaser. He's a medallion chaser. That's right.
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Speaker 1: He was chasing that diamond medallion status, which is very ephemeral.
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Speaker 1: As it turns out. I thought, once you had it,
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Speaker 1: you had it for life. But you gotta keep like
6:28
Speaker 1: you know that XP wears off very quickly. And uh,
6:32
Speaker 1: you know, I I've felt for you because I I
6:35
Speaker 1: was looking up to you as you're you're close right,
6:38
Speaker 1: I'm approaching silver and I was told by Mr Hodgeman
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Speaker 1: and no uncertain terms, I that is a trash medallion.
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Speaker 1: It's it's a non medallion. Yeah, you can listen to
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Speaker 1: that episode of stuff they don't want you to know.
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Speaker 1: And John at some point just stops responding to Noel,
6:56
Speaker 1: and whenever Noel mentions it, he just sort of screams.
6:58
Speaker 1: I had questions. I was trying to understand how the
7:00
Speaker 1: points work, and there's different milestones that you reach that
7:03
Speaker 1: that give you the next boost to the next level
7:06
Speaker 1: level up. I guess he would not engage with me
7:08
Speaker 1: because I was far, far too much beneath him. Um,
7:11
Speaker 1: but we're not talking about medallions today. Where we started
7:14
Speaker 1: talking about luxury and then we got derailed a little bit,
7:16
Speaker 1: which I love. Um. Do you remember have you ever
7:19
Speaker 1: seen or heard any stories about led Zeppelin's luxury plane,
7:24
Speaker 1: private plane called the Starship. I have heard of the Starship. Yeah.
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Speaker 1: So it had like a full lounge with an electric
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Speaker 1: organ and like at the time it was a cutting
7:34
Speaker 1: edge like video system where they could play films and
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Speaker 1: it was absolutely the height of decadence and dare we
7:42
Speaker 1: say luxury. And there was a time this is a
7:45
Speaker 1: Boeing seven oh seven after a two hundred thousand dollar renovation,
7:50
Speaker 1: the plane would have been leased. They didn't even own
7:54
Speaker 1: it for dollars per flight and it was just like,
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Speaker 1: you know, absolute represent inunted that led Zeppelin decadence with
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Speaker 1: you know, coke fueled parties with Elton John and Eric
8:06
Speaker 1: Smith and all that stuff. We're not talking about that
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Speaker 1: exactly today, but there was a time where that level
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Speaker 1: of at least aesthetic loungeness could have possibly been available
8:15
Speaker 1: to uh folks like me or you. Yeah, it could
8:18
Speaker 1: have become the norm. You know, today a lot of
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Speaker 1: people who travel by air have have a core common
8:26
Speaker 1: understanding of the different problems, you know, like security stinks,
8:31
Speaker 1: I hate waiting in line, no one wants a middle seat,
8:34
Speaker 1: and flying it can be such a hassle in the
8:36
Speaker 1: modern day. But back in the glory days of regulated
8:42
Speaker 1: air travel, we saw things like that led Zeppelin play right.
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Speaker 1: We saw things like, uh, for anybody who's a fan
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Speaker 1: of Austin Powers, you'll you'll notice they have this stuff
8:54
Speaker 1: about luxury airlines there and as part of his yeah
8:57
Speaker 1: baby status. That is because is of something called the
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Speaker 1: Civil Aeronautics Board. Before nineteen seventy eight, the Civil Aeronautics
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Speaker 1: Board controlled prices and roots for all all of the
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Speaker 1: planes in the US, and that meant that carriers couldn't
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Speaker 1: really compete like you're just for example, your your Frontier,
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Speaker 1: your Spirit or your Delta or your Alaskan Airlines or whatever.
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Speaker 1: They couldn't mess with each other too much on prices,
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Speaker 1: nor could they have a lot of agency with roots.
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Speaker 1: So the only way they could compete to get more
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Speaker 1: customers was based on how they served their customers, you
9:39
Speaker 1: know what I mean. And that meant they started installing
9:41
Speaker 1: some of that stuff you described, which we could describe
9:44
Speaker 1: a little bit more. Uh, like the remember the Tiger Lounge.
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Speaker 1: I don't remember it personally because it's never lucky enough
9:51
Speaker 1: to to travel. We were born then on the and
9:54
Speaker 1: the Tiger Lounge, but yeah, it's true. So in nineteen
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Speaker 1: seventy the first Boeing seven forty seven jet was introduced,
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Speaker 1: and it uh in order to kind of take advantage
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Speaker 1: of the massive amount of space that a big jet
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Speaker 1: like that had. Um and again at the time where
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Speaker 1: the idea of competing for customers attention and and dollar
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Speaker 1: was a big deal between the airlines, so uh, they
10:18
Speaker 1: there was this thing called the Tiger Lounge, which was
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Speaker 1: kind of in the guts of the Boeing seven seven.
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Speaker 1: This was only a prototype, and it had things like
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Speaker 1: I had really bespoke glass top bar and like tiger
10:31
Speaker 1: print black leather seats, and there was even a glass
10:36
Speaker 1: bottom boat type situation that allowed you to look down
10:40
Speaker 1: into the you know, the abyss, which after some drinks,
10:43
Speaker 1: I don't know if that would have been a good idea.
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Speaker 1: That would have kind of freaked me out and made
10:47
Speaker 1: me question my mortality a little too much. A window
10:49
Speaker 1: on the side I can handle, but straight down I
10:51
Speaker 1: don't know. About that. Yeah. Yeah. Oh. Also, for anyone
10:55
Speaker 1: who hasn't seen the Los Angeles studio, Dan only gotta
10:58
Speaker 1: tell you it freaks me out to know that there's
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Speaker 1: a glass bottom on the second floor. You saw that, right,
11:05
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's weird. It is weird. I don't want
11:08
Speaker 1: to have meetings in there. I don't. I don't look
11:10
Speaker 1: up and there people peering down ato you. It's very disconcerting.
11:13
Speaker 1: I don't know why I've found a new weird neuroses.
11:16
Speaker 1: I don't want people to see the top of my
11:18
Speaker 1: head during meetings. You've been I've been looking it at
11:21
Speaker 1: that time. But you're right. Well, you're right because the
11:24
Speaker 1: Tiger Lounge sort of echoes the the aesthetic of very
11:29
Speaker 1: fancy luxury cruise liners, you know. And because the Civil
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Speaker 1: Aeronautics Board is no more, you're much less likely to
11:39
Speaker 1: see things like piano bars, which used to be in
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Speaker 1: both first class and coach. You're less likely to see
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Speaker 1: a Parisian chef preparing meals, and you're less likely to
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Speaker 1: see these like fashion plate uniforms for flight attendants. You're
11:56
Speaker 1: less likely to see a lot of stuff, and that's
11:59
Speaker 1: because in night the reason that you and I and
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Speaker 1: Danill missed. This glorified era of fancy airline travel is
12:08
Speaker 1: because in Congress enacted something called the Airline Deregulation Act.
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Speaker 1: This is the reason we went from things like Tiger
12:19
Speaker 1: Lounges to Spirit and no ding on Spirit. Spirit is
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Speaker 1: a budget airline that will get you where you need
12:26
Speaker 1: to go. The idea here was ostensibly that the act
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Speaker 1: of deregulating the airline market would allow the average Jane
12:36
Speaker 1: and John Doe or Smith or whatever you know, anonymous
12:39
Speaker 1: name you want to use, to have access to this
12:42
Speaker 1: mode of travel, which was so much faster than a
12:46
Speaker 1: car or than a train at the time, and they
12:50
Speaker 1: would have never been able to afford it otherwise. The
12:52
Speaker 1: reasoning went, and this opened up a new plane field
12:57
Speaker 1: because you know, as we said at the top airlines
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Speaker 1: in the US originally could not compete on price, and
13:04
Speaker 1: they couldn't really compete on routes, so they had to
13:06
Speaker 1: compete on customer service. But now that they could compete
13:10
Speaker 1: on the basis of price, they could really talk turkey
13:14
Speaker 1: and they could undercut their competitors and stuff all the
13:17
Speaker 1: customer service bells and whistles right that that all fell
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Speaker 1: to the wayside, it didn't need it wasn't part of
13:24
Speaker 1: the model anymore, right, But why Ben, I'm still a
13:27
Speaker 1: little bit confused, Like was it because they're the competition
13:32
Speaker 1: had gotten to stiff and there were like empty flights
13:36
Speaker 1: or something like that. Like I'm a little confused as
13:38
Speaker 1: to how deregulating would cause this change. Yeah, Yeah, And
13:44
Speaker 1: and what the move, what the drive to deregulation would
13:47
Speaker 1: have been, right, because again, ostensibly, you know, emphasize that word,
13:52
Speaker 1: please hear that in italics. Ostensibly this is meant to
13:56
Speaker 1: bring air travel to the people. However, there was something
14:02
Speaker 1: that occurred called the air mail scandal, and this occurred
14:07
Speaker 1: way back in the nineteen thirties. This was a congressional
14:11
Speaker 1: investigation on um on corruption, on nepotistic awarding of contracts
14:18
Speaker 1: to certain airlines to carry mail. Yeah, and because of that,
14:23
Speaker 1: people were much more in favor of government regulation originally,
14:29
Speaker 1: and now more and more in these are modern days,
14:31
Speaker 1: we'll hear people arguing against regulation, often often with some
14:38
Speaker 1: sort of ulterior motive. But what happened with regulation the
14:43
Speaker 1: airline industry is that it began to have the opposite
14:48
Speaker 1: effect to what Congress originally wanted. It to do because
14:54
Speaker 1: they wanted to regulate flights to make sure that airfare
14:58
Speaker 1: was in their fairly priced and that planes would not
15:03
Speaker 1: be in a situation where there would be empty flights.
15:06
Speaker 1: Like even now, even today, in a deregulated environment, the
15:10
Speaker 1: three of us could buy plane tickets and someone may
15:13
Speaker 1: have sold us more tickets than there were seats on
15:16
Speaker 1: the plane. Yeah, I mean, it's absolutely a rarity to
15:19
Speaker 1: ever be on a flight where there's even one empty seat. Yeah,
15:22
Speaker 1: I don't know that I've been on it. I mean
15:23
Speaker 1: I had a middle free middle seat on this last
15:26
Speaker 1: flight that I took, and that was just like a
15:29
Speaker 1: dream come true. You know, I could stretch my one
15:31
Speaker 1: leg out to the side, I could use that middle
15:33
Speaker 1: trade table as an additional table that I had to
15:36
Speaker 1: get into an agreement with my other seat. May It
15:38
Speaker 1: was like, hey, man, is this cool. I'll have this side,
15:40
Speaker 1: you can have that side. You know. It was great.
15:42
Speaker 1: But that's that's very unusual. Now I get it now, Ben,
15:44
Speaker 1: I guess the the the the issue for me was
15:46
Speaker 1: the disfluency of like, you know, regulation good, deregulation bad.
15:51
Speaker 1: But it was that regulation that was causing the airlines
15:55
Speaker 1: to prosper right, but it maybe was keeping fair higher
16:00
Speaker 1: and there wasn't enough competition um and so it wasn't
16:04
Speaker 1: necessarily good for the consumers. And then I believe that
16:07
Speaker 1: it get to a point where the Civil Aeronautics Board
16:10
Speaker 1: was seen as having kind of um run its course
16:18
Speaker 1: at this point in time, late nineteen seventies. What they're
16:21
Speaker 1: seeing is that they're regulated airlines, and those are the
16:25
Speaker 1: legacy airlines, and then there are these upstarts where I
16:28
Speaker 1: should say, start up airlines that are unregulated. So Congress
16:32
Speaker 1: compares the basic fare of a ticket and they say,
16:35
Speaker 1: let's look at what it costs someone to fly on
16:38
Speaker 1: a regulated airline and what it costs to fly on
16:41
Speaker 1: an unregulated airline. And then they said, oh wow, click
16:46
Speaker 1: lightbulb moment. Unregulated airlines charge way less money per ticket,
16:53
Speaker 1: and we should help people get some savings, and therefore
16:57
Speaker 1: we're helping more people to fly, which in the long
16:59
Speaker 1: term arguably helps this industry. There's a guy from Cornell University,
17:04
Speaker 1: Alfred E. Kahn k A h N, and he was
17:09
Speaker 1: he was according to a great article on air and
17:12
Speaker 1: Space dot s I dot e du, he was one
17:16
Speaker 1: of the first academics to look at the airline industry
17:20
Speaker 1: simply and solely as a business. And he said, if
17:24
Speaker 1: we break up this regulated structure that we have, we
17:28
Speaker 1: will create new space for new airlines, will increase competition
17:33
Speaker 1: therefore will lower these fares. And Carter actually appointed him
17:38
Speaker 1: as the chair of the Civil Aeronautics Board to lead
17:42
Speaker 1: the charge into this new era of deregulation. And at
17:46
Speaker 1: the time, um the major airlines were against it, which
17:51
Speaker 1: is interesting, right, You would think they'd be like more money,
17:54
Speaker 1: more money, or like, you know, less fewer rules, more money,
17:56
Speaker 1: we can do whatever we want. But again, that's that's
17:58
Speaker 1: the thing you kind of have to wrap your head around.
18:00
Speaker 1: This idea of regulation was more or less in the
18:04
Speaker 1: best interest of the airlines rather than the consumer. And
18:07
Speaker 1: this it's it's just kind of it's a little tricky
18:09
Speaker 1: for me. Even like when you uh, deregulate something, you
18:12
Speaker 1: think that means it's a free for all now, but
18:14
Speaker 1: it didn't quite mean that in the situation at all, right, yeah, exactly.
18:18
Speaker 1: And so when Congress pushed this through and and Carter
18:22
Speaker 1: signed the Deregulation Act, which was specifically October, so the
18:28
Speaker 1: anniversary is coming up if you're looking for something strangely
18:32
Speaker 1: specific to celebrate. When they signed this Deregulation Act, they
18:36
Speaker 1: fundamentally changed the airline industry and we're still feeling the
18:42
Speaker 1: effects of this today. The Deregulation Act eventually dissolved that
18:47
Speaker 1: Civil Aeronautics Board, which again ALFREDY. Khan had run for
18:51
Speaker 1: a time, and now US airlines were no longer regulated
18:56
Speaker 1: the way that a public utility is regulated, and this
19:01
Speaker 1: led to the death of some iconic famous airlines. Without
19:06
Speaker 1: this regulation, outfits like PanAm or Eastern Airlines couldn't compete
19:13
Speaker 1: because there were new, younger airlines that were coming in.
19:17
Speaker 1: They were coming in hot, you know what I mean. Yeah,
19:19
Speaker 1: But pan M two is like the quintessential luxury type
19:22
Speaker 1: you know, iconic sixties seventies airline that you think of,
19:26
Speaker 1: like with these kinds of lounges in these piano bars
19:28
Speaker 1: and the very very stylish flight attendants and all of that,
19:32
Speaker 1: and like the kind of cocktail our culture. Like I think,
19:34
Speaker 1: wasn't there a TV show about PanAm? I mean, PanAm
19:37
Speaker 1: shows up in a ton of films, for sure, Yeah,
19:39
Speaker 1: and it was in Catch Me if you can, for sure.
19:42
Speaker 1: But I feel like there was actually a series sort
19:44
Speaker 1: of recently about the history of Panama. It was like,
19:47
Speaker 1: you know, about that whole kind of universe. You're right, Nola.
19:51
Speaker 1: A quick a quick look online tells me that not
19:55
Speaker 1: only was there a TV series about PanAm, it is
19:59
Speaker 1: called pan Birst of Creativity, Burst of Creativity. I love,
20:03
Speaker 1: I love to attribute that. Yeah, the the deregulation knocks down,
20:10
Speaker 1: knocks down these formerly herculean legacy carriers and introduces a
20:15
Speaker 1: new species of airline, the low cost carrier or LCC.
20:20
Speaker 1: So essentially it just lowered the barrier to entry into
20:24
Speaker 1: the field. Right, Yeah, So what maybe once was not
20:28
Speaker 1: a monopoly necessarily, but at the very least a very
20:31
Speaker 1: tight knit group of competitors that more or less weren't
20:35
Speaker 1: after each other. There was enough, you know, money to
20:37
Speaker 1: go around. Now the field is kind of flooded with
20:40
Speaker 1: all of these young, whipper snapper airlines, and nobody really
20:44
Speaker 1: cares about the luxury stuff anymore because they have more
20:47
Speaker 1: access to cheap tickets and travel that a certain segment
20:50
Speaker 1: of the economy would not have had before. It was
20:52
Speaker 1: much more exclusive. Even if there was a coach kind
20:55
Speaker 1: of piano bar situation, it still would have been way
20:57
Speaker 1: out of reach for most you know, lower to middle
21:01
Speaker 1: class Americans, and a lot of people prior to the
21:05
Speaker 1: seventies were traveling. This may surprise some of our younger listeners.
21:10
Speaker 1: That certainly surprised me. A lot of people prior to
21:14
Speaker 1: the seventies. Instead of traveling in luxury airlines, they were
21:18
Speaker 1: traveling in luxury buses and coaches. There's a great museum
21:22
Speaker 1: in Hershey, Pennsylvania where you can see uh, tons of
21:28
Speaker 1: literally tons of these buses that have you know, uniformed attendance.
21:34
Speaker 1: They have a beverage cart and food service. So we're
21:38
Speaker 1: still in a situation where people have expected this, and
21:41
Speaker 1: now with deregulation, someone's able to say, well, I may
21:45
Speaker 1: not get you know, I may not get my fine wine,
21:48
Speaker 1: and I may not get I don't know, I'm making
21:50
Speaker 1: stuff up my my foot massage cushions and linens and
21:53
Speaker 1: oils and lotions. Yeah, yeah, I may not get all
21:57
Speaker 1: of these things. Uh, and I may be eating a
22:01
Speaker 1: microwave meal or just some peanuts. Microwave was considered very
22:05
Speaker 1: very forward, very futuristic at the time. I mean that
22:07
Speaker 1: was earlier than that. But remember when the microwave was
22:09
Speaker 1: like it's called you know, microwave cooking was like the
22:11
Speaker 1: wave of the future, and they'll be like microwave cookbooks.
22:14
Speaker 1: I think that was probably more in the fifties. Yeah, yeah,
22:16
Speaker 1: I think right. Maybe they were more on a toaster
22:19
Speaker 1: oven vibe, but they are. Point is that people would say, Okay,
22:24
Speaker 1: I may not get all this stuff, but I can
22:26
Speaker 1: travel faster than I ever have before, and I can
22:30
Speaker 1: finally afford it. And this means that now what people
22:36
Speaker 1: expect when they buy a ticket has changed, and there
22:40
Speaker 1: are some success stories like today Southwest Airlines is the
22:43
Speaker 1: largest domestic carrier in terms of like how many butts
22:46
Speaker 1: they put in seats and then in the air and
22:49
Speaker 1: then down on the ground. Can I throw a little
22:51
Speaker 1: shade real quick? Yeah? Please, I really shade. I just
22:53
Speaker 1: you know, we're lucky. We travel a lot for work,
22:55
Speaker 1: and so we're able to book whatever airline is most convenient,
22:59
Speaker 1: and so I tend to book Delta, and I flung
23:01
Speaker 1: exclusively on Delta for quite a while and then ran
23:03
Speaker 1: into a situation where I was coming out here to
23:05
Speaker 1: l A and the Delta flight was just exorbitantly more
23:08
Speaker 1: expensive because wayed too long to book. So I did
23:10
Speaker 1: my first Southwest flight, and I was shocked, Ben, at
23:13
Speaker 1: the lack of luxury. You were shocked. There wasn't even
23:16
Speaker 1: a USB charger, There were no there were no seatback screens. Dude.
23:22
Speaker 1: Was their WiFi barely? It was like one g? It
23:27
Speaker 1: was like a half a g. How long was the
23:30
Speaker 1: flight long? Do you feel like now you're you're you're
23:33
Speaker 1: a Delta boy through and through? I mean, I think
23:34
Speaker 1: I have to be. But here's what happened, Ben, I
23:36
Speaker 1: had I I assumed, surely there's a way to charge
23:39
Speaker 1: my device, so I wasn't paying any attention. I was
23:42
Speaker 1: just using it willy nilly, you know, in the terminal,
23:44
Speaker 1: taking videos, snap chatting, you know, crushing candies. And then
23:49
Speaker 1: I get on the plane and I'm like, excuse me,
23:52
Speaker 1: excuse me, Matt, miss uh where where where's the outlet?
23:55
Speaker 1: And she just looked at me with disdain and rolled
23:58
Speaker 1: her eyes and scoffed at me, and and and and
24:01
Speaker 1: and walked away. And and I had to I had
24:04
Speaker 1: to I had to think. I had I was, I was.
24:06
Speaker 1: I had to be with my own thoughts. You hate that, terrifying, dude,
24:11
Speaker 1: It was terrifying. I would occasionally like turn the phone
24:13
Speaker 1: back on even though I had three percent battery left,
24:16
Speaker 1: and I'm like, I'm gonna ration myself out five seconds
24:20
Speaker 1: of screen time at a time. Well, I'm glad, I'm
24:23
Speaker 1: glad you made it, you know. And that's that's an
24:26
Speaker 1: interesting anecdote because it goes into what we're what we're
24:29
Speaker 1: saying here, which is it's less a man. Luxury again
24:33
Speaker 1: is relative, right, it's comparative. Luxury is based on expectation, right.
24:38
Speaker 1: And for you, if had you gone into that situation
24:42
Speaker 1: knowing what the score would be, it would have been
24:45
Speaker 1: a little less um surprising, right, Yes, And we're at
24:51
Speaker 1: the point especially if you travel, Uh, if you become
24:54
Speaker 1: accustomed to the same thing, and I'm not saying like
24:57
Speaker 1: fancy tiger skin piano bars, but if you're accustomed to
25:00
Speaker 1: something like a USB charger, then it doesn't feel like
25:04
Speaker 1: a luxury. Well, it goes back to what you said
25:05
Speaker 1: at the beginning of the show bad. The idea of
25:07
Speaker 1: luxury in and of itself is subjective, right, Like you know,
25:10
Speaker 1: a USB charger on a plane compared to no USB
25:13
Speaker 1: charger on a plane, to me, is luxury, or at
25:17
Speaker 1: least at the very least based on my expectation, and
25:20
Speaker 1: the ability to fly at all for many people is
25:23
Speaker 1: a luxury. The to me, the ability to fly is
25:26
Speaker 1: definitely a luxury because you know, I have this bad
25:31
Speaker 1: habit where I always start rationing out hours and thinking
25:35
Speaker 1: in terms of what I could have done, how long
25:37
Speaker 1: something would have taken. So if I'm on a four
25:40
Speaker 1: hour flight and I'm thinking, well, how long would it
25:43
Speaker 1: take for me to drive? Right? And then how long
25:47
Speaker 1: would it take for me to walk? And you know,
25:50
Speaker 1: or ride a horse or something, which I'm still not
25:52
Speaker 1: solid on the numbers there. I haven't haven't done my
25:55
Speaker 1: horse research yet, but but we think about it, and
25:59
Speaker 1: it is this enormous luxury. And now that we are
26:02
Speaker 1: in this era of deregulation, and now that we also
26:07
Speaker 1: have people uh in institutions advocating for fewer plane flights
26:12
Speaker 1: due to environmental concerns, we have to ask ourselves is
26:15
Speaker 1: this a sustainable thing? Because when when the deregulation occurs,
26:20
Speaker 1: a bunch of new airlines come up and then a
26:22
Speaker 1: bunch of them die, they go to put uh, they're
26:27
Speaker 1: stocks crash. Remember Trump airlines? I do, and not personally,
26:31
Speaker 1: but I remember reading about it. That was the thing
26:33
Speaker 1: that lasted about five minutes. Yeah, yeah, up there with
26:36
Speaker 1: Trump Casinos, Trump Steaks. I think Virgin is still a
26:39
Speaker 1: thing that did Virgin die and that was one of
26:41
Speaker 1: that was one of the new entries into the field
26:43
Speaker 1: of recent years, and I think it's still around. Yeah,
26:46
Speaker 1: Virgins going alive and kicking. We got the thumbs up
26:49
Speaker 1: from down huge, huge fan of Virgin Airlines. I mean,
26:52
Speaker 1: I think there's neat things about Virgin Airlines. I think,
26:56
Speaker 1: isn't there something cool about it? What? What? What? What's
26:58
Speaker 1: the gimmick for Virgin Airlines dandald you know, uh, you know,
27:01
Speaker 1: fancy purple lighting on the inside. See you there you go.
27:04
Speaker 1: That constitutes luxury, Yeah, exactly, luxury on on a budget. Um.
27:08
Speaker 1: But no, it's absolutely true. And then you have like
27:10
Speaker 1: you know, again, Delta is probably considered more of a
27:13
Speaker 1: premium airline because the ticket prices are always a good yeah,
27:18
Speaker 1: and again for good reason, not good reason really because
27:21
Speaker 1: again if you go you compare to the way it
27:23
Speaker 1: was in the sixties and seventies where you had like
27:26
Speaker 1: you said, you know, infinity pools and you know, glass
27:31
Speaker 1: tabletops and belly dancers and then all of a sudden,
27:35
Speaker 1: there's just uh there, there's the first robot ever. Graham
27:39
Speaker 1: of Cocaine came with your tickets, right, that was that
27:43
Speaker 1: was that was part of the course. And it, you know,
27:45
Speaker 1: obviously pales in comparison. But then you compare having a
27:48
Speaker 1: little bit more leg room that that that constitutes luxury
27:52
Speaker 1: at this point, you know, I mean, you think about
27:53
Speaker 1: howmuch people pay for a first class ticket. All you're
27:56
Speaker 1: getting is a slightly wider seat and the ability to
27:59
Speaker 1: stretch your legs out a little bit, and a trade table,
28:02
Speaker 1: better snacks and maybe a compliment. You get served first,
28:04
Speaker 1: and you get to get on the plane first. Because
28:06
Speaker 1: travel has become such a nightmarish hellscape in terms of
28:11
Speaker 1: just getting to the airport, how congested it is now.
28:14
Speaker 1: We've got all the security regulation and taking off your
28:16
Speaker 1: shoes every time I go through through security. I've kind
28:19
Speaker 1: of trained my mind not to look at it to
28:22
Speaker 1: such an affront anymore. I just sort of turn off
28:24
Speaker 1: my brain until I get on the other side. But
28:27
Speaker 1: it's stressful, Yeah, it's stressful. That's why I I always
28:31
Speaker 1: end up getting to a gate all right if I
28:36
Speaker 1: feel like I'm gonna be on time. I assume that
28:38
Speaker 1: means I'm going to be late, you know what I mean.
28:40
Speaker 1: And part of it is because the Deregulation Act worked,
28:45
Speaker 1: airports are much more crowded, people can go places. We
28:48
Speaker 1: also live in an increasingly globalized society, so we are
28:52
Speaker 1: much more likely to know someone in in a distant
28:55
Speaker 1: physical location. What are some other positives that came as
28:59
Speaker 1: a result of of deregulation ben Ah, Yes, yes, yes, uh.
29:04
Speaker 1: The hub and spoke system is one of the big ones.
29:07
Speaker 1: So one of the reasons that people in the US
29:11
Speaker 1: and in our part of the U s in Atlanta,
29:13
Speaker 1: Georgia end up traveling Delta a lot is because Delta
29:17
Speaker 1: is I wouldn't say a monopoly, but it's very much entrenched,
29:20
Speaker 1: and Delta has their headquarters and their big hub in Atlanta. You'll, yeah,
29:25
Speaker 1: you'll hear people say I like flying Delta. The thing is,
29:28
Speaker 1: no matter where I'm going, I have to stop in
29:31
Speaker 1: Atlanta first. It's a weird thing, but the the hub
29:35
Speaker 1: and spoke system is essentially this. Some airports are used
29:39
Speaker 1: as a connecting point for passengers coming from different places
29:43
Speaker 1: and going to different destinations. Pretty much every airline except
29:47
Speaker 1: for maybe like a person's private G six or something.
29:50
Speaker 1: They use this system and to this day, I mean
29:52
Speaker 1: we talked about at the top of the show, Southwest
29:54
Speaker 1: is still the hub for Southwest is in Dallas, I
29:57
Speaker 1: believe that love Field. That's where you know, they were
30:00
Speaker 1: one of the first low cost airlines to enter the
30:03
Speaker 1: fray UH, and they have thrived, they continue to thrive
30:07
Speaker 1: in their base there in Dallas, So you get a
30:09
Speaker 1: lot of flights coming out West passing through Dallas or Houston. UM.
30:14
Speaker 1: But for Atlanta is like the hub for like everywhere
30:17
Speaker 1: in Atlanta still is uh. Depending on which metric use
30:21
Speaker 1: it's still is the world's busiest airport, which always stuns
30:25
Speaker 1: me because it feels like there should be bigger airports,
30:30
Speaker 1: right I always thought that, Yeah, absolutely, But then you
30:33
Speaker 1: go to like say LaGuardia in New York and it's
30:35
Speaker 1: like being in you know, a third world country or
30:38
Speaker 1: like a mad Max kind of situation. It's been under
30:40
Speaker 1: construction renovation for like ever. And the reason for that,
30:45
Speaker 1: it goes into one of the big drawbacks of deregulation
30:49
Speaker 1: is the over congestion that we talked about and the
30:51
Speaker 1: fact that a lot of airports are really really on
30:55
Speaker 1: their last legs from being overused. I mean, originally a
30:58
Speaker 1: lot of airports were built to handle around three hundred
31:02
Speaker 1: flights today, and now because of that demand and that
31:05
Speaker 1: um kind of evening of the playing field, they're hosting
31:08
Speaker 1: more than a thousand flights a day. And so you
31:11
Speaker 1: have places like LaGuardia that have been trying desperately to
31:14
Speaker 1: kind of address that, but because it still has to
31:17
Speaker 1: continue to be an active airport, you can't just shut
31:19
Speaker 1: the airport down. You gotta kind of do it in
31:21
Speaker 1: little bits and pieces. And I also tend to think
31:23
Speaker 1: the mob has involved sort of like the Esplanade and
31:26
Speaker 1: the Sopranos. I'm pretty sure there's something going on there
31:28
Speaker 1: that place. Legardia has been a construction for a long time.
31:31
Speaker 1: It doesn't look like they have accomplished anything, but that's
31:33
Speaker 1: just me. New Yorkers tell me I'm wrong. And so
31:41
Speaker 1: the infrastructure can't handle what's happening. It's like we had
31:46
Speaker 1: these parking lots, right, and these parking lots were designed
31:49
Speaker 1: to fit cars, let's think of it that way, instead
31:52
Speaker 1: of flights. Just for comparison, these parking lots were say,
31:55
Speaker 1: designed to fit fifty cars, and now we have more
32:01
Speaker 1: than two hundred and fifty cars, and we're we're putting
32:05
Speaker 1: a lot of logistics and a lot of algorithmic magic
32:09
Speaker 1: into figuring out how these can all get a parking
32:11
Speaker 1: space for some amount of time. And we we see
32:14
Speaker 1: the same thing happening with people because airport congestion doesn't
32:18
Speaker 1: just stop at the gate or the terminal. Airport congestion
32:22
Speaker 1: occurs when you're in the plane as well. Yeah, and
32:25
Speaker 1: everybody wants convenience. Everyone wants to be able to pick
32:28
Speaker 1: any potential time for them to leave and get their
32:30
Speaker 1: destination on time, which means that a lot of people
32:33
Speaker 1: are wanting to be in the air at the same time,
32:35
Speaker 1: which puts a lot of stress on the infrastructure that
32:37
Speaker 1: is government regulated, which is air traffic control. I'm so
32:41
Speaker 1: glad you said that air traffic control. Just thinking of
32:44
Speaker 1: working in air traffic control fills me with dread because
32:49
Speaker 1: you're the conductor of this great, dangerous, terrifying orchestra in
32:55
Speaker 1: the sky and you're working with very old tools and
32:59
Speaker 1: nobody really wants to pay to update it. I still
33:02
Speaker 1: think it's bonkers that airplanes still have ashtrays in them,
33:05
Speaker 1: and then they feel the need to remind you that
33:07
Speaker 1: you cannot smoke on this flight, like since the what
33:10
Speaker 1: eighties in the US at least, I mean, I you
33:14
Speaker 1: know what that reminds me of. That reminds me of
33:16
Speaker 1: when you go to a gas station. I don't know
33:18
Speaker 1: if you still see this, but I I see it.
33:20
Speaker 1: I feel like I still see this frequently. You go
33:23
Speaker 1: to a gas station and they have the unnecessary sign
33:25
Speaker 1: that tells you the gasoline is unleaded, and you know,
33:28
Speaker 1: it begs the question like who wears all this leaded gas?
33:32
Speaker 1: You know? I I understand how it might be weird
33:35
Speaker 1: to change an ash tray, but I feel like you
33:39
Speaker 1: could just get rid of the the sentence unleaded. I agree.
33:42
Speaker 1: And speaking of fuel, that's another thing that goes to
33:44
Speaker 1: waste as planes are delayed because of these issues because
33:48
Speaker 1: safety is obviously key. I mean a mid air collision
33:51
Speaker 1: that just sounds like, you know, absolute nightmare fuel. So
33:54
Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of exactly, And that's true,
33:57
Speaker 1: but they burn a lot of fuel just sitting on
33:59
Speaker 1: the runway waiting to get, you know, get clearance to
34:03
Speaker 1: take off. I've been in situations multiple times where you're
34:05
Speaker 1: like number fifteen to take off for there's some kind
34:08
Speaker 1: of you know, kerfuffle with their traffic control, and they
34:11
Speaker 1: don't tell you. They just kind of like you just
34:13
Speaker 1: sit there, and you're sitting there like idoling. And then
34:15
Speaker 1: yet fuel on a runway which is super expensive, and
34:18
Speaker 1: then you get one of these oh this is your
34:23
Speaker 1: speaking number fifteen? Why do they all talk like that number?
34:27
Speaker 1: Fifteen dollars? How does that happen? Good? What is the
34:31
Speaker 1: phenomenon that leads to that voice? So do you think
34:36
Speaker 1: they talked to their kids in that voice too? I
34:39
Speaker 1: don't know that would be upsetting to me growing up
34:41
Speaker 1: with Do you think they whisper like into their ear
34:44
Speaker 1: and they say, oh, good, good, good, good night John, John,
34:50
Speaker 1: your daddy loves you so much when you wake up tomorrow.
34:54
Speaker 1: It's like a Jimmy Stewart voice, kind of really slightly overcast. Uh,
34:58
Speaker 1: first grade Bush delay fifteen minutes exactly. But yeah, yeah,
35:04
Speaker 1: I mean that's a great point about the fuel. Let's
35:06
Speaker 1: go inside the airline too, Uh, And notice that it's
35:10
Speaker 1: true the seats are getting smaller. People who have ridden
35:12
Speaker 1: airplanes for a long time, you're not crazy. In the
35:15
Speaker 1: nineteen seventies, the seat was thirty four inches. Uh, and
35:18
Speaker 1: then it turned to thirty two or even now there's
35:22
Speaker 1: some that are twenty eight inches. And for any of
35:25
Speaker 1: us who are very tall or have really tall friends,
35:27
Speaker 1: like our pal Robert Lamb, you know that that seat's
35:30
Speaker 1: got to be tortures, Oh, no doubt. And here get this,
35:32
Speaker 1: this is a pretty interesting scoop. I didn't know this,
35:34
Speaker 1: but it makes perfect sense. The reason Hartsfield Jackson International Airport,
35:39
Speaker 1: or as the my favorite location hashtag Instagram is Hartsfield
35:43
Speaker 1: LaToya Jackson International Hair Salon and spaceport. I like the
35:47
Speaker 1: spaceport part, but I'm not a big fan of name.
35:49
Speaker 1: You're not. It feels loaded, well whatever, and people might
35:52
Speaker 1: not know about it if they're not from Atlanta, but
35:54
Speaker 1: you know, if you've passed through, which you likely have,
35:56
Speaker 1: and you were taking an Instagram photo, it tends to
35:58
Speaker 1: come up as a location text. But Heartsfield Airport was
36:02
Speaker 1: built after deregulation, so it was all of these things
36:06
Speaker 1: were taken into consideration, which is what made it king. Yeah. Yeah,
36:10
Speaker 1: And for comparison, Detroit's Airport, it's kind of like the
36:14
Speaker 1: straight line. It was built before this hub and spoke
36:17
Speaker 1: concept that came with deregulation, and so now we have
36:23
Speaker 1: the lay of the land, or perhaps we should say
36:26
Speaker 1: the scope of the sky. And I want to emphasize,
36:29
Speaker 1: I want to make sure that you and I don't
36:31
Speaker 1: sound like absolute heels. We're we're not jet setters. We travel,
36:38
Speaker 1: we traveling coach. Absolutely. You you have been lucky enough
36:43
Speaker 1: to be connected with an employee of a major airline, um,
36:46
Speaker 1: and so you get those buddy passes on lock and
36:48
Speaker 1: that's what allows you to travel in the international flights,
36:51
Speaker 1: which I believe I'm not mistaken. I mean, the international
36:53
Speaker 1: flights are going to be bigger and room here and
36:55
Speaker 1: have more of these lounge areas anyway, because there's such
36:58
Speaker 1: long flights right well, they're they're larger planes. I haven't
37:02
Speaker 1: I haven't ever traveled an international route on a private plane.
37:07
Speaker 1: But the good news for anybody who wants to see
37:09
Speaker 1: an airborne episode of MTV Cribs or something like that,
37:14
Speaker 1: is that those things are still in the sky. There's
37:16
Speaker 1: still these very very high end like cartoonishly offensively posh
37:23
Speaker 1: airlines like Air Emirates or whatever. I used to watch
37:27
Speaker 1: YouTube videos of people who would pay untold thousands of
37:33
Speaker 1: dollars for what was essentially a studio apartment in the sky.
37:37
Speaker 1: It's nuts and it's it's kind of like that led
37:39
Speaker 1: Zeppelin stuff you were talking about. You can check out
37:42
Speaker 1: videos of the world's only private Boeing seven eighties seven Dreamliner,
37:48
Speaker 1: which is palatial. And I know I used this word earlier,
37:51
Speaker 1: but it's it's palatial, it's opulent, and it is offensive.
37:54
Speaker 1: Can we say luxury again, just rolls off the tongue.
37:59
Speaker 1: Luxury me just sound. We should do we should do
38:03
Speaker 1: some we should do some fake advertisements just for like,
38:07
Speaker 1: not not playing specifically, but just for the concept of luxury.
38:13
Speaker 1: Maybe we can easter egg that one. But now that
38:16
Speaker 1: is where we are. I have to ask you. I
38:18
Speaker 1: have to ask you know, and I have to ask you,
38:21
Speaker 1: Daniel and everybody listening to this show. Overall, given the
38:26
Speaker 1: pros and the consent, we know, was the regulation a
38:29
Speaker 1: good thing. I'm very surprised by my own response, which
38:33
Speaker 1: is that yes, it appears so. I don't think that's
38:36
Speaker 1: surprising at all. I mean, anything that um reduces the
38:40
Speaker 1: exclusivity of a thing that is very, very valuable to
38:43
Speaker 1: many many people, I think is ultimately a very good thing.
38:46
Speaker 1: And if you want to spend that cash and get
38:49
Speaker 1: that two inches more of leg room and that champagne
38:52
Speaker 1: cocktail or whatever, go with God. But at the end
38:55
Speaker 1: of the day, we're just trying to get from playing
38:56
Speaker 1: to point B and the fact that we can fly
38:59
Speaker 1: in a magical two through the sky, you know, across
39:01
Speaker 1: the country. It's pretty incredible, and that technology should be
39:04
Speaker 1: available to everyone. What do you think? David wholeheartedly agree.
39:08
Speaker 1: I think the more accessible the technology is, the more
39:10
Speaker 1: we can allow people travel. Maybe their worldview opens up
39:13
Speaker 1: as well. Oh nice social point is a nice touch.
39:16
Speaker 1: I like that. Um, well, man, I think this is
39:19
Speaker 1: it for our story today, is it not? Yes? This
39:21
Speaker 1: is it. This concludes our episode, but not our show.
39:25
Speaker 1: Thank you so much to everyone who tuned in. If
39:28
Speaker 1: you want to continue the conversation, we would love to
39:31
Speaker 1: hear your airplane uh stories of inspiration or your airplane
39:35
Speaker 1: horror stories. You can find us on Instagram, you can
39:37
Speaker 1: find us on Facebook, you can find us on Twitter.
39:39
Speaker 1: Not just as a show, ridiculous histories everywhere. You can
39:42
Speaker 1: just google that, but you can also find me and
39:45
Speaker 1: Null in our own personal misadventures. I was gonna say,
39:49
Speaker 1: as a people as a people. Yeah, yeah, the the
39:52
Speaker 1: Nation of Ben and noll Um. You can find me
39:54
Speaker 1: exclusively on Instagram. I don't I don't really tweet. I
39:56
Speaker 1: have a Lurker account, but I don't really post anything.
39:58
Speaker 1: But on Instagram I post up a storm at how
40:01
Speaker 1: Now Noel Brown and uh I am on. I am
40:06
Speaker 1: doing various strange, completely non sketchy things on Instagram at
40:10
Speaker 1: Ben Boland and you can also find me on Twitter
40:12
Speaker 1: at Ben Bolan h s W. Thank you so much
40:17
Speaker 1: to our super producer dan'l. Thank you to our super
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Speaker 1: producer Casey pegram there in spirit. Thanks to Alex Williams,
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Speaker 1: who composed our theme. Christopher haciotis also here in spirit.
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Speaker 1: Jonathan Strickland, the Quister. Uh, God only knows where he is,
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Speaker 1: but I hope he's okay because we haven't heard from
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Speaker 1: him in a while. I'm really starting to worry. You
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Speaker 1: can still find him on our Facebook community page, ridiculous Historian.
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Speaker 1: He larks, he lurks, he pops in, he'll chime in,
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Speaker 1: he's got some hot takes like that. He's gone like Kaiser,
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Speaker 1: so exactly exactly, but we promise you he does exist.
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Speaker 1: I have a weird feeling that he will have a
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Speaker 1: spiky sense nool that he will be on the way
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Speaker 1: sooner rather than later. Thanks to research associate Gabe Lucier,
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Speaker 1: thanks to airport deregulation, and thanks to you Roal, and
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Speaker 1: thanks to the l A Studio for having us for sure,
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Speaker 1: Thanks to you Ben Tallyho, See you next time, folks.
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Speaker 1: For more podcasts for my Heart Radio, visit the I
41:22
Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to
41:25
Speaker 1: your favorite shows.