Latest / How To Protect The Ocean / How NOAA and EPA Layoffs Threaten Environmental Research and Public Safety
Transcript
- 1:00:00We need to talk about these cuts are
- 1:00:02happening to NOAA and EPA.
- 1:00:04Over a thousand people have been fired
- 1:00:07from both of these departments that
- 1:00:08provide so much critical research and
- 1:00:11protections and enforcements for
- 1:00:13environmental regulations
- 1:00:14that are out to protect you.
- 1:00:16We're gonna talk about on today's episode
- 1:00:17of the how to protect the ocean podcast.
- 1:00:19Let's start the show.
- 1:00:22Hey everybody, welcome back to another
- 1:00:24exciting episode of the how
- 1:00:25to protect the ocean podcast.
- 1:00:26I'm your host Andrew Lewin.
- 1:00:27This is the podcast where you find out
- 1:00:28what's happening with the ocean how you
- 1:00:29can speak up for the
- 1:00:30ocean what you can do
- 1:00:31to live for a better ocean by taking
- 1:00:33action and on today's episode
- 1:00:35we're gonna be talking about how the
- 1:00:36ocean is being affected by the lack of
- 1:00:37people that used to be able to do
- 1:00:40research critical research be
- 1:00:42able to predict weather be able to manage
- 1:00:44fisheries be able to look after and model
- 1:00:47climate change be able to enforce
- 1:00:49Regulations for the clean water and the
- 1:00:50Clean Air Act that
- 1:00:51are designed to protect
- 1:00:53US citizens as well as other people
- 1:00:55around the world now, they're gone
- 1:00:57They are no longer employed with NOAA or
- 1:00:59the EPA and we need to talk about it on
- 1:01:02today's episode because this is not good
- 1:01:04This is going to have long-term effects
- 1:01:07before we get into those effects
- 1:01:08We are going to talk about what actually
- 1:01:11happened in this sort of battle for
- 1:01:14science this war against science
- 1:01:15So recent mass layoffs at the NOAA so the
- 1:01:18National Oceanographic and Atmospheric
- 1:01:20Administration and the Environmental
- 1:01:22Protection Agency EPA are poised to have
- 1:01:24significant long-term effects on
- 1:01:26environmental research in the United
- 1:01:28States and over the next decade
- 1:01:29So in late February this past week, we
- 1:01:32saw about 880 NOAA employees accounting
- 1:01:36for about 7.3% of its workforce laid off
- 1:01:39These layoffs include critical personnel
- 1:01:41for divisions such as the National
- 1:01:42Hurricane Center and the
- 1:01:44Storm Prediction Center
- 1:01:45Notably 25% of the Environmental Modeling
- 1:01:48Center staff were laid off and these
- 1:01:50reductions are predicted to impair NOAA's
- 1:01:53capability to provide accurate weather
- 1:01:55forecasts and conduct essential climate
- 1:01:57research potentially compromising public
- 1:02:00safety and effectiveness of
- 1:02:01disaster response mechanisms
- 1:02:02The layoffs also affected NOAA's support
- 1:02:05for external research institutions
- 1:02:07So for example, the Scripps Institute of
- 1:02:09Oceanography, which is a huge research
- 1:02:11institute in San Diego
- 1:02:12They received $42 million from NOAA in
- 1:02:15the fiscal year of 2023 and 2024 now
- 1:02:17faces uncertainty regarding future
- 1:02:19funding as all the
- 1:02:20funding have been taken away
- 1:02:21This jeopardizes ongoing research
- 1:02:23projects and development for the
- 1:02:25environmental studies
- 1:02:25A lot of research graduate students, a
- 1:02:28lot of research that goes on to look at
- 1:02:30coastal modeling, looks at water quality,
- 1:02:32looks at conservation, a lot of different
- 1:02:35aspects will be affected
- 1:02:36through Scripps almost immediately
- 1:02:38And this is a big problem
- 1:02:40The EPA also experienced significant
- 1:02:42staff reductions with over 300
- 1:02:44probationary employees terminated
- 1:02:46These cuts targeted personnel responsible
- 1:02:48for enforcing the regulations of the
- 1:02:50Clean Water and Clean Air Acts
- 1:02:51Those involved in
- 1:02:53reviewing environmental permits
- 1:02:54The loss of these employees could delay
- 1:02:57critical oversight functions and hinder
- 1:02:59timely responses to pollution and
- 1:03:01environmental disasters
- 1:03:02Thereby affecting the agency's ability to
- 1:03:05maintain environmental safeguards and
- 1:03:07public health protections
- 1:03:09This is serious guys
- 1:03:10I don't think I've ever seen cuts this
- 1:03:11big since we saw them in Canada happen a
- 1:03:14number of years ago, about a decade ago
- 1:03:15When Stephen Harper was prime minister
- 1:03:17with the conservatives, they made drastic
- 1:03:20cuts, but there was a
- 1:03:21strategy involved around it
- 1:03:23It's a very similar strategy to what's
- 1:03:25going on with the environmental
- 1:03:26reductions that are happening in the US
- 1:03:28It was all for oil and gas
- 1:03:29In Canada, about a decade ago, there was
- 1:03:32a pipeline being built from the tar sands
- 1:03:34in Alberta all the way to the coast in BC
- 1:03:36The reason why it took so long to do it
- 1:03:39is they had to cross these rivers and
- 1:03:40water crossings and so forth
- 1:03:41And when you have to do that, that
- 1:03:43automatically triggers an environmental
- 1:03:45assessment with those
- 1:03:46environmental assessment
- 1:03:47You look at species at risk. You look at
- 1:03:49fish habitat to cover the fisheries act,
- 1:03:51the species at risk act and those were
- 1:03:54hindering the production of this pipeline
- 1:03:56So what the government decided to do
- 1:03:58under pressure of oil and gas companies,
- 1:04:00they said, hey, you know what we're
- 1:04:01actually going to do?
- 1:04:01We're going to change the law. We're
- 1:04:04actually going to go in and we're going
- 1:04:05to change the fisheries act.
- 1:04:06They want to change the species at risk
- 1:04:07act, but they weren't able to do it in
- 1:04:09time. They got voted out
- 1:04:10before they could do it.
- 1:04:10But they changed the fisheries act to
- 1:04:12changing the wording of it. We used to be
- 1:04:15able to protect fish habitat.
- 1:04:17Then they wanted to change it. They said
- 1:04:18we're going to change that to protect
- 1:04:20commercially, recreationally and
- 1:04:22aboriginally commercial species that were
- 1:04:24actually fish that had a 30 year history
- 1:04:27of being fish, which took out a lot of
- 1:04:29the rivers and lake systems in Canada out
- 1:04:32of the running because it's just some of
- 1:04:34the fisheries hadn't been
- 1:04:35established for over 30 years.
- 1:04:36So that allowed the government to give
- 1:04:39permits faster for these oil and gas
- 1:04:41companies, no matter what they were going
- 1:04:44over, no matter what fish habitat they
- 1:04:45were destroying. Now, obviously, if you
- 1:04:47look at any conservation manual, you look
- 1:04:49at any fisheries site or talk to any
- 1:04:50fisheries scientists, they're going to
- 1:04:52say the best thing to do to protect
- 1:04:53fisheries is to protect their habitat
- 1:04:55because without their habitat, you're not
- 1:04:56going to have these fish.
- 1:04:58The government didn't care about this.
- 1:04:59They wanted this pipeline to go through.
- 1:05:01There was a lot of freedom of
- 1:05:02information. It was a big controversy
- 1:05:04that I've gone into in past episodes.
- 1:05:05I'm just giving you the rundown here. But
- 1:05:08regardless what happened, they changed
- 1:05:09the law and when they changed the law,
- 1:05:10they actually affected all the people
- 1:05:12that were under those sections.
- 1:05:13So we used to have like a section under
- 1:05:15the science that looked at environmental
- 1:05:16permits that were just looking at anybody
- 1:05:19who wants to develop where they would
- 1:05:21affect fisheries habitat.
- 1:05:23Now they didn't have to care about
- 1:05:24fisheries habitat. They just had to care
- 1:05:25about the recreational aboriginal viable
- 1:05:27species that were actually had a history
- 1:05:30of 30 years being fished.
- 1:05:30So now they actually couldn't have a fish
- 1:05:33habitat sector. They had to destroy that
- 1:05:34sector. They took it away and then they
- 1:05:36actually built up a new one. I think it
- 1:05:38was called fisheries protection program.
- 1:05:40That program was redesigned. It was very
- 1:05:42similar to what you did is
- 1:05:43just redesign under the new act.
- 1:05:45Now, since then, the Trudeau government
- 1:05:47came in and the first thing they did is
- 1:05:48they reviewed the fisheries act and they
- 1:05:51made it better. They put the fish habitat
- 1:05:52back in and they put it back. They put a
- 1:05:55lot of other things in there
- 1:05:56as well to make it stronger.
- 1:05:56The problem was it took five years for
- 1:05:59them to do that after they got into power
- 1:06:01because anything in government when
- 1:06:02you're putting a lot together, you have
- 1:06:04to take your time. You have to go through
- 1:06:05a specific process to get it done. All
- 1:06:08the development projects actually had
- 1:06:10went through really quickly and it could
- 1:06:12have destroyed fish habitat. So we had
- 1:06:13that five-year gap. Plus now you got to
- 1:06:15put it all together. It was ridiculous to
- 1:06:17be honest. It was really bad that we went
- 1:06:19to see and then after this happened when
- 1:06:21they put in that new division of the
- 1:06:22science section, the government, they had
- 1:06:24to rehire everybody. So what they did is they laid people off.
- 1:06:25Luckily, we were unionized. They laid
- 1:06:29people off and they couldn't get like
- 1:06:31just lay them off and you're done. You
- 1:06:32don't have a job. They had to give you
- 1:06:34choices of where you want to apply to,
- 1:06:35but you could move all over the country
- 1:06:37wherever you want to. So a lot of people
- 1:06:38got moved because they were forced to. So
- 1:06:40they had to move their homes. They had to
- 1:06:41move away from their family and friends
- 1:06:43and then some of them just actually just
- 1:06:45retired. A lot of them retired. They were
- 1:06:47on the cusp of retiring anyway, but it
- 1:06:49was all in the game of changing the law
- 1:06:51so that they can get this pipeline
- 1:06:53through. It was all about oil and gas and let's not get into the problem.
- 1:06:55So they were kind of twisted. This is
- 1:06:57about oil and gas and mining and
- 1:06:58development and natural resource
- 1:07:00development. That's what it is in the
- 1:07:02states right now. We are seeing this
- 1:07:03happen. We're seeing the Marine Mount
- 1:07:05Protection Act. That's going to be
- 1:07:06changed. We're seeing the clean water and
- 1:07:08the clean air acts. A lot of those
- 1:07:09regulations were rescinded. They were
- 1:07:11just taken out just like they were in the
- 1:07:14first Trump administration. I think it
- 1:07:15was like hundreds of different
- 1:07:16regulations were not applicable anymore
- 1:07:18and they were just taken out based on
- 1:07:20executive order. So now those two things
- 1:07:23that we looked at, the Marine Mount
- 1:07:24Protection Act that was
- 1:07:25very big when it came to oil and gas and
- 1:07:28seismic surveying, which is all about oil
- 1:07:29and gas had to do with you can't harass
- 1:07:32or kill or hurt harm a marine mammal,
- 1:07:35even especially when you're doing oil and
- 1:07:37gas. So that was a big hindrance to oil
- 1:07:39and gas production and just building and
- 1:07:41finding and drilling new wells. But then
- 1:07:43you also have the clean air and clean
- 1:07:45water act. So if you wanted to do coal
- 1:07:47plants or if you wanted to have mining,
- 1:07:50they had to have specific regulations
- 1:07:52that met criteria to meet the law so that they could have a better
- 1:07:55water. So that's why I think that they
- 1:07:56didn't pollute the air or the water in
- 1:07:59and around these mining areas or any kind
- 1:08:01of fossil fuel areas or any kind of
- 1:08:03chemical plant. Really like think about
- 1:08:05New York City, the harbor that got
- 1:08:07cleaned up over a number of years over
- 1:08:09decades because of things like the clean
- 1:08:11water act. You weren't allowed to dispose
- 1:08:13of chemicals or anything bad in the water
- 1:08:16and that harbor got cleaned up so much so
- 1:08:18that humpbacks are
- 1:08:19coming back and you see men.
- 1:08:25So you enjoy that water a lot better and
- 1:08:27it just becomes a nicer area to visit in
- 1:08:30a nice area to see and you have a healthy
- 1:08:31ecosystem. But people don't care about
- 1:08:33that these days. People care about more
- 1:08:35oil and gas development and fossil fuel
- 1:08:37development. According to this
- 1:08:38administration, they're going to drill
- 1:08:39baby drill. They care about mining and
- 1:08:42they care about anything that will harm
- 1:08:44the environment, it seems. And they're
- 1:08:46getting rid of the regulations to do
- 1:08:48that. And one of the things to do, not
- 1:08:50only are you getting rid of the
- 1:08:51regulations and changing the law, but
- 1:08:53you're also getting rid of
- 1:08:54the people who have the same
- 1:08:55skills that will actually help build
- 1:08:57these laws or help enforce these laws
- 1:08:59further or make these laws better to
- 1:09:02protect the environment and protect US
- 1:09:04citizens. And I think that's where it
- 1:09:05really comes down to. So what I wanted to
- 1:09:08know was I was like, what are the long
- 1:09:10term impacts of removing over a thousand
- 1:09:13people from the workforce in and around
- 1:09:17environmental departments such as NOAA
- 1:09:19and such as the EPA. I just kind of
- 1:09:21looked at a couple of things, a couple
- 1:09:22sources here that talked about it and
- 1:09:24I'll list those sources in the
- 1:09:25show notes. But one is diminishing
- 1:09:27research capacity. Obviously, the
- 1:09:29reduction of skilled scientists and
- 1:09:30researchers will likely slow progress of
- 1:09:32environmental studies of leading gaps in
- 1:09:35data and reduced understanding of
- 1:09:37environmental changes. The other was
- 1:09:39compromised public safety with fewer
- 1:09:41experts monitoring and predicting
- 1:09:43environmental hazards. Communities may
- 1:09:45face increased risk from events such as
- 1:09:47hurricanes, wildfires and industrial
- 1:09:49pollution. We just saw what happened in
- 1:09:51the wildfires in Pasadena. We saw how
- 1:09:53quickly that fire came through without
- 1:09:55warning people that they were
- 1:09:55going to be affected. Especially when
- 1:10:04you're looking at when the wind are going
- 1:10:06to come up and you can predict those
- 1:10:07winds, what's going to happen there. And
- 1:10:09the last one is the erosion of
- 1:10:10institutional knowledge. So the departure
- 1:10:12of experienced personnel results in the
- 1:10:14loss of valuable institutional knowledge
- 1:10:16which is crucial for mentoring new
- 1:10:18scientists and maintaining the continuity
- 1:10:20of long term research projects. When you
- 1:10:23are in government, you have these
- 1:10:25projects. It's very important to understand that you have a particular
- 1:10:25And when you come in as a
- 1:10:27young scientist in government,
- 1:10:28you usually get assigned to a project.
- 1:10:30Some of these projects
- 1:10:30are five years, three years.
- 1:10:32Some of these have
- 1:10:33been going on for 50 years
- 1:10:34in monitoring and so forth.
- 1:10:36If you lose that, you
- 1:10:37lose those five, 10 years,
- 1:10:38or you eliminate those programs,
- 1:10:39or even you eliminate the scientists
- 1:10:41that have been there for a long time,
- 1:10:43and you have these new
- 1:10:43people who are coming in,
- 1:10:45you're not getting the experience
- 1:10:47that the older scientists
- 1:10:48would be able to pass down
- 1:10:49because they are gone, essentially.
- 1:10:52Or you lose that young
- 1:10:54cohort that came through
- 1:10:55because they were the
- 1:10:56last ones to get on.
- 1:10:57So they're the first
- 1:10:57ones to get off in layoffs.
- 1:10:59And so now you have a
- 1:11:00gap of the generation
- 1:11:02that doesn't know what
- 1:11:03they're doing when they get back in.
- 1:11:04And hopefully they'll be able to rehire
- 1:11:06for those positions.
- 1:11:07It's gonna be expensive,
- 1:11:08it's gonna be difficult,
- 1:11:08but all that data
- 1:11:09that you lose in between
- 1:11:11getting rid of people
- 1:11:12who've been there over 30 years,
- 1:11:14or even 20 or even 15 or
- 1:11:15even 10, or even just like two,
- 1:11:17you lose that institutional knowledge
- 1:11:18and you lose that
- 1:11:19ability to train and mentor
- 1:11:21new scientists that are coming through
- 1:11:23that'll allow them to be
- 1:11:24better than the other scientists
- 1:11:25when they first came in.
- 1:11:26That's the whole point
- 1:11:27is make science better,
- 1:11:28but you're not able to do that when
- 1:11:30you're losing these gaps of people.
- 1:11:32It's not as if these
- 1:11:33layoffs are based on performance.
- 1:11:35These layoffs are based on what saves the
- 1:11:37government the most money,
- 1:11:39but also they never look at what will
- 1:11:42destroy the government
- 1:11:43or these programs or
- 1:11:45will hurt the citizens.
- 1:11:46And we've already seen some examples that
- 1:11:48Elon Musk himself has admitted to.
- 1:11:50Those canceled an Ebola program,
- 1:11:52and they realize that they
- 1:11:54were like, Oh, hold on a second.
- 1:11:55We actually need that.
- 1:11:56So we're gonna bring those people back
- 1:11:57and we're gonna put the
- 1:11:58bullet program back out.
- 1:11:59So it's okay.
- 1:12:00We make mistakes even said, but we will
- 1:12:01try and rectify them as soon as possible.
- 1:12:03It just goes to show that they're not
- 1:12:04really looking at stuff that's critical.
- 1:12:07They're just going through and they're
- 1:12:08just taking away things that
- 1:12:09they think is a lot of money.
- 1:12:11And if it's a lot of money, they can save
- 1:12:12them a lot of money, then they'll do it.
- 1:12:14It's really coming at it from a very tech
- 1:12:16and private sector format,
- 1:12:18which you can't do in the public sector
- 1:12:20because these programs
- 1:12:22that people know nothing about these
- 1:12:23people who are coming in,
- 1:12:24they know nothing about they know nothing
- 1:12:26about their significance.
- 1:12:26They're just looking at the price tag.
- 1:12:28They have no idea what this can do in
- 1:12:30terms of harm for a lot of people taking
- 1:12:32away an Ebola program,
- 1:12:34you know, give it to them.
- 1:12:35They put it back.
- 1:12:36But why take it away in the first place?
- 1:12:37Why don't you take your
- 1:12:38time go through each program?
- 1:12:40They're just kind of coming through
- 1:12:40quickly quickly and cutting,
- 1:12:42but then they don't realize what mistakes
- 1:12:44they're making in the future.
- 1:12:46Taking away people who model and predict
- 1:12:48weather is very, very dangerous.
- 1:12:50We just talked to Dave Jones last episode
- 1:12:52and what that meant for the weather
- 1:12:55service and for NOAA and
- 1:12:56for satellites and for NASA.
- 1:12:58These are our programs that are critical
- 1:13:00to U.S. citizen safety.
- 1:13:02We don't know where these
- 1:13:03hurricanes are coming from.
- 1:13:04We don't know the power of them.
- 1:13:06We are going to be lost when these
- 1:13:08hurricanes comes and hit people.
- 1:13:09And unfortunately, people
- 1:13:10are going to die because of it.
- 1:13:12And who takes responsibility for that?
- 1:13:14Right? Is the government going to take
- 1:13:15responsibility because these programs
- 1:13:16have been taken out?
- 1:13:17We always see that when a natural
- 1:13:19disaster comes, we see, oh, well, you
- 1:13:20know, the fire department got cut at a
- 1:13:22certain time because of whatever.
- 1:13:25Right. Cost savings.
- 1:13:26And then you're like, well, the wildfire
- 1:13:27came through and the fire department
- 1:13:28didn't have as many resources, right?
- 1:13:30Because they had just gone through a
- 1:13:31budget cut or something like that.
- 1:13:32We see this all the time after a natural
- 1:13:34disaster comes through.
- 1:13:35And instead of going in and saying, hey,
- 1:13:37we know we're going to have more natural
- 1:13:39disasters and we need to shore up that
- 1:13:41staff and those resources.
- 1:13:43No, they always do the opposite.
- 1:13:44It's extremely frustrating.
- 1:13:46But the real part here that really gets
- 1:13:48me is the fact that over a thousand
- 1:13:50people do not have jobs that had jobs
- 1:13:52just this past week.
- 1:13:54And it has nothing to do
- 1:13:55with the way they perform.
- 1:13:56These are very good scientists.
- 1:13:58These are scientists who work as a public
- 1:14:00servant and they
- 1:14:02don't look at party lines.
- 1:14:04They look at what their project is.
- 1:14:06They take very good pride in their
- 1:14:07project and they do it for
- 1:14:09years and sometimes decades.
- 1:14:11And to just be taken away like that is
- 1:14:14extremely disappointing.
- 1:14:16Right. To get funding
- 1:14:17rescinded like that is horrible.
- 1:14:21And this is going to flood the job market
- 1:14:23like for organizations that may not be
- 1:14:25able to pay like they used
- 1:14:26to get paid in the government.
- 1:14:27I don't know what's going to happen to a
- 1:14:29lot of these people.
- 1:14:30This is extremely sad to
- 1:14:32see what's going to happen.
- 1:14:33And the long term consequences of this is
- 1:14:36going to be very sad.
- 1:14:37It's going to be long after Donald Trump
- 1:14:39and J.D. Vance have had
- 1:14:40their administration in.
- 1:14:42They'll be long gone after this,
- 1:14:43hopefully after these four years.
- 1:14:45And we are going to see a mess.
- 1:14:47We're going to see a mess that has to be
- 1:14:49cleaned up by the next administration,
- 1:14:50whether that be Democratic or Republican.
- 1:14:53And that is going to be harmful for the
- 1:14:55U.S. in the long term.
- 1:14:56I don't think people understand how
- 1:14:58harmful this is going to be even in the
- 1:15:00short term when we start to see these
- 1:15:02programs get cut so quickly.
- 1:15:04So I'd love to hear
- 1:15:04your thoughts on this.
- 1:15:05Are you a government employee or used to
- 1:15:07be a government boy?
- 1:15:07I'd love to hear your story.
- 1:15:08You can DM me at how
- 1:15:09to protect the ocean.
- 1:15:10You can put your comments down below on
- 1:15:12YouTube or on Spotify.
- 1:15:13Obviously you can DM me on Instagram at
- 1:15:15how to protect the ocean.
- 1:15:16But don't forget to subscribe and hit
- 1:15:18that notification bell so you don't miss
- 1:15:19any other episodes we put out Monday,
- 1:15:21Wednesday and Friday.
- 1:15:23I would love to hear your thoughts.
- 1:15:24Of course.
- 1:15:24So please put them in the comments
- 1:15:25whether you're for these layoffs or
- 1:15:28against these laughs.
- 1:15:28I'd love to hear your
- 1:15:29thoughts regardless.
- 1:15:30And I want to thank you so much for
- 1:15:31joining me on today's episode of the how
- 1:15:33to protect the ocean podcast.
- 1:15:34I'm your host, Andrew Lewin from the true
- 1:15:35North strong and free.
- 1:15:36Have a good day.
- 1:15:37I'll talk to you next
- 1:15:38time and happy conservation.