Latest / The Diary of a CFO / From Big 4 Auditor to CFO: How to Make People Want to Work With You in Finance - James White (Live in Atlanta)

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From Big 4 Auditor to CFO: How to Make People Want to Work With You in Finance - James White (Live in Atlanta) · The Diary of a CFO

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We are live in Atlanta. This is a diary of a
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CFO. And I'm your host, Wassia Kamon. I've called
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this city home for over two decades, and it is
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one of the most important business hubs in the
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country. More than two trillion in payments flow
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through Atlanta every year, with an estimated
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70 % of all U .S. credit transactions touching
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the city. Yet most business conversations are
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still centered around places like New York or
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San Francisco. So this is a limited series where
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I'm sitting down with fellow finance leaders
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and CFOs. Change that and see what's going on
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here, how they build their careers, what's working,
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what's different about doing it here, and how
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they carry the weight of these decisions. Today,
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I'm here with James White. James White is the
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CFO of ScanTech AI Systems, a company using AI
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to secure the world's infrastructure. But before,
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he was leading the finance function of a cutting
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-edge AI firm. He was a senior manager in the
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assurance practice at Ernst & Young, EY, and
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he's a Melta CPA who has seen the guts of multibillion
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-dollar organizations from the outside, and now
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a CFO is getting to build one from the inside.
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Welcome to the show, James. I see it. Thank you
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for having me here. I really appreciate it. Absolutely.
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I'm so glad we finally get to do this, especially
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because we officially met outside of Atlanta.
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That's true. That's true. In Las Vegas, of all
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places, at a conference, at a conference. For
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sure. And to be here is very, very, I'm very
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happy for that. That's fantastic. Thank you.
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So I would like to start with what brought you
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to Atlanta. So I grew up right next door. I'm
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an Alabama boy, born and raised. And so, you
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know, growing up in Alabama, it's unique. It's
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a special experience. However, I knew that there
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was more outside of Alabama. So first chance
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I got, I got out of the state. I graduated from
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University of Maryland at College Park. But being
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in the D .C., the DMV, right? I said, you know
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what, I don't miss the South as much as I thought
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I did, but wasn't ready to come back to Alabama.
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So Atlanta was, you know, the next best choice
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for a myriad of reasons. And then growing up
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in Alabama, we all looked at Atlanta next door,
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like, you know, let's go have fun over there.
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So I said, okay, that's a great place to start
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a career. Wasn't too far from home, but it was
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just right. Oh good. And then the weather must
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be better too. Depending on kind of what season
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you're looking for. I mean, summers here can
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be... They are what they are, right? Humidity
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is a thing and it's a warm blanket for us all.
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Yes, it is. And now when you came here, did you
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already know you wanted to be in public accounting?
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So, yeah, I did actually. So, you know, you know,
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kind of going back, you know, when people ask
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me kind of like, who are you? Right. I start
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with I'm the great grandson of a pioneer, right
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over in Alabama. You know, my dad's family hails
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from Montgomery. And so you know, this is a generation
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coming off of the whole sharecropping and things
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of that nature. Right. So we had kind of my grandfather
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had foresight to kind of my great grandfather
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had foresight to kind of obtain a plot of land.
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And he really he actually built or put together
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the first kind of respite for people in the in
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the area where you couldn't go to public parks
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as being an African American in Montgomery County
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where we were. So. He created kind of Whites
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Lake where that's where we could go to do picnics
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and kind of have different family reunions and
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stuff like that. So he created that for people.
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My grandfather, greatest man I've ever known,
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in the sense that he came up through a hard time
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and really showed me kind of when you care about
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someone in your family, the things that you needed
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to do. My father... Was one of the first black
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CPAs in state of Alabama Started a CPA firm Headquartered
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in Alabama, which kind of grew to about five
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offices at one point I'm still in operation today.
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And so You know for the longest time I Thought
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accounting has something to do with music records
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because my yeah, I heard he's doing something
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with records I was like he's in music and didn't
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figure out that had nothing to do with it But
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I wanted to be an engineer when I went to college.
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I said, oh, I'm going to be a systems engineer,
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industrial engineer. And I took chemistry. And
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chemistry told me you don't want to be an engineer
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because you don't have the chops. I said, all
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right, I'll take that. And so accounting kind
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of came easy to me and said, OK, well, this is,
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you know, Atlanta is where I wanted to start
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my career because I just kind of followed the
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path that so many of us are told. Get this degree
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in accounting. Go work at a firm. Get your CPA.
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And then, you know, the rest will come to you
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after that. Yes. And so when you finally got
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into public accounting, you stayed like 20 years,
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which is, which is a lot because people either
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love it or they leave it within like five years.
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So what kept you in public accounting that long?
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You know, let's, you know, let's not kid ourselves.
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The profession is a difficult one. It's a grind,
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right? It always has been. And I had the fortune
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of being able to really form bonds with my teams.
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And so that's what kind of kept, that makes,
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you know, there's this adage in the military
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where they tell you to embrace the suck, right?
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So I was able to embrace the suck doing that.
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And, you know, I forged a lot of great relationships.
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So it made the hard times more like this. this
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trial and tribulation that we were all going
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through. And so we kind of bond over that. And
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once I made it to manager, I, like most people,
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kind of had that point in my career where I was
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like, do I still want to keep doing this? Because
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I said to myself, I'm going to stay at least
5:55
through senior. And then I would talk to people
5:57
that were my mentors. They were like, well, look,
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you need to really stick it out until you make
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manager. And I had that same issue where I was
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like, you know, what's here for me. And I had
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the fortune of being able to kind of change what
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I was doing inside the firm that kept it exciting,
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kept it dynamic. I was able to do a secondment
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to Berlin, Germany in 2005. So I lived in Berlin
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for 2005 2008, serving one of the you know, the
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the firm's marquee clients at the time. And so
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I was able to kind of keep reinventing myself
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the entire time. That's where, that's what kept
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me in. And frankly, you know, the thing that
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really kept me there was I knew that there were
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people below me that were looking at what I was
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doing or what I had achieved. And that gave them
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value, right? They said, look, if James is doing
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it, then I can get there too. And so that meant
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something to me. At the end of the day, wherever
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you end up, you know, the people are what's going
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to make or break your experience. I'd say by
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and large for most people. And so it meant something
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to me that I represented something for people
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that kept me kind of in the firm. When there
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were days where I wasn't, I didn't want to do
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it that day, but I wasn't ready to kind of throw
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in the towel because I wanted to maintain kind
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of whatever that was, whatever I meant to whomever
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thought that my presence had some meaning. I
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said, okay, I'll stick it out for you. Oh, wow.
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That is so inspiring, especially since I just
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learned that you work with Tiffany. That was
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Tiffany Williams. I was also on the podcast.
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So I can only imagine how inspiring it is to
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have that representation. It's huge, you know,
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you know, because in the Atlanta office at the
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time, you know, when we were kind of working
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through diversity and things of that nature,
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when I showed up, there were there weren't that
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many black partners at EY. And at the time, there
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were none in Atlanta. So a lot of us were sitting
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there trying to figure out, well, OK, is partnership
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a real thing for us? And then that started to
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kind of develop and evolve. And so I knew that
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there were people ahead of me. I said, well,
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if he's here, then he can help kind of guide
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me on that path. And I knew eventually I would
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be doing that for other people as well. And so,
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you know, I really believe that being in Atlanta
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as, you know, an African -American really changes
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kind of the quality of your career because you
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don't really feel like you're on an island because,
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you know, it's a chocolate city. This is how
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things are. Yes. So it's been a fantastic experience.
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And now you went partner at your dad's firm.
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Correct. Correct. Correct. So so, you know, I
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left EY circa 2015. And so I went back to the
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firm that my father started. About 50 years ago
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and took over there as managing partner you know
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my goal was to kind of take this wealth of information
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and experience that I had amassed and You know
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really try and push us out of Gen one into Gen
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two knowing that Yeah, I had this feeling that
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the landscape of the profession was going to
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change right technology has always been rapidly
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evolving and so You know my goal was to kind
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of help kind of take us to the next level And
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so from partner because a lot of people is like
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partner is it like I'm gonna be partner I'm gonna
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retire partner at which point did you say I want
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to come back but not just in Any public accounting
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like you came and you switch. Yeah to corporate
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finance and accounting After like two decades
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in public and like what prompted the change?
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So it was there were number aspects to it, right?
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I think throughout my career. I've always tried
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to do I Embrace being uncomfortable Throughout
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my entire career. I think and it starts right
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the first time you show up at a new company So,
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you know this goes back to when I was at Ernst
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& Young I said, okay, I showed up and I said,
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all right, I've got to be successful What do
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I need to do to be successful? and I realized
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that I'm gonna have to place myself in places
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where I may be the only, you know dark face in
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the room and That's uncomfortable for me, but
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I've got to sort this out. And so To me, that
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was just kind of a training ground for any new
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challenge that I took on. You know, for example,
10:24
when I went to Germany on this conment, didn't
10:27
take any family, I went by myself. And so here
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I am, you know, a young boy from born in Alabama,
10:34
you know, and then you plop me down in the middle
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of Germany, you know. Not supposed to do that,
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right? You know, that's not a choice that people
10:41
would make. And I just kind of met it head on
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and said, OK, well, I'll figure it out and we'll
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go from there. So doing the things that I'm not
10:49
supposed to do or people wouldn't expect me to
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do, I think has been part of my rite of passage.
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But it's been amazing. So, you know, I said I've
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never been a CFO. I believe that I can do it.
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I need the opportunity to do so. And then. I'll
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figure out the rest, right? I had enough of a
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work ethic, you know, because I grew up on, I
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grew up at my dad's from Alabama. So he had this
11:17
idea. He's like, well, I want to have a farm
11:19
when he grows up. So naturally goes on 100 acre
11:23
farm. You know, I grew up with we had about 30
11:26
to 50 head of cattle, you know, chicken coop
11:28
with pigs at one point. And so 100 acres. You
11:32
know, as while other people are just waking up,
11:34
you know, and kind of getting dropped out of
11:36
school, I got to give a six. I got to feed the
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cows, got to feed the chickens feed the dogs.
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Then I go get ready and go to school. And so
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my father put a work ethic in me, whether I liked
11:49
it or not. You know, and so I've never looked
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at something as though the challenge is going
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to be too great. I just need to work hard enough
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to either get to the answer. get to a place where
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I'm comfortable and kind of get there. And so
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all of that, you know, I attribute a lot of that
12:04
to my upbringing because I was fortunate enough
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to have someone who realized that hard work and
12:09
discipline was going to be the thing that was
12:12
setting me apart. Even if I wasn't the smartest
12:14
guy in the room, I was going to try and outwork
12:16
somebody to get to the right place. But that's
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great. It's crazy how those things kind of compound
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they do and help you be the leader you eventually
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are becoming So curious to hear what maybe other
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things that you think really helped you In your
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career, you know, it's funny as as mentees come
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to me, right? What I tell people is that and
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I realized this kind of during my career was
12:44
that No one's preferences or biases are intentional,
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right? People have the tendency to do what's
12:54
most comfortable for them. We take the path of
12:57
least resistance whenever we can. So when I was
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at Ernst & Young, you know, my focus was on making
13:07
myself as easy to get to know as possible, right?
13:11
Finding as many common places as I could find
13:13
with people. in order for them to want to maybe
13:17
invest in me, right? Because there are a number
13:19
of times where you see people and they would
13:21
struggle with being at the firm, like no one
13:25
really talks to me or we're not relating on things.
13:28
I was like, that's not their job to find a common
13:31
place in you, to relate to you. It's your job
13:33
to find a common place where the two of you can
13:36
connect on something. and then that'll kind of
13:38
want them to kind of pour into you in that regard.
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And so that's how I approached every day and
13:43
all the relationships that I had at the firm.
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So, you know, that's kind of what I tell people.
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I was like, listen, you've got to find a way
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to become vulnerable, right? Because that's weird
13:54
for us to kind of sit there and talk about your
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life with somebody who's a stranger, right? But
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you're trying to find just a little nugget, a
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little slice where the two of you can connect
14:03
and something that you guys can talk about. And
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they'll be like, hey, I'm working on this thing.
14:07
Have you dealt with this before? No. Well, come
14:09
on, let me show you what I'm doing. And that
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changes your entire experience 100%. And so I
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think that that was a part of is that look, you
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have to make yourself likable, right? Nobody
14:20
has to, you know, because that's who people want
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to work with, collaborate with, work around.
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They want to work around with people that they
14:25
like. Now, you know, you may not be the sharpest
14:28
tech. They'll teach you the rest, you know, but
14:30
they want to see that you're there, you're committed
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and until you have a bond. And once you've established
14:35
that, Things will work out for you. You know,
14:38
you'll get lucky at that point Yeah, and but
14:40
you create your luck right because you because
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it's it's something we don't want to admit but
14:45
people will pick who they like to work with like
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in interviews in promotions in all that it's
14:51
like it's almost like you want to hate the game
14:52
all you want but You know, you're still in the
14:55
game still in the game, right? Don't know. What
14:59
is it an MPU or whatever they call them? It's
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like you don't want to be the one that's just
15:02
there on the sideline get engaged, right, make
15:05
connections because you'll realize later on in
15:09
your career, it's, you know, it's it's going
15:13
to be as much of who you know, but it's also
15:16
going to be who knows you and what they know
15:18
about you. Right. Based off of your track record,
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based off of other people's word of mouth. And
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so that's really what's going to help drive.
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People are sitting in these rooms and making
15:30
decisions on who do we want to be here or be
15:32
there. It's gonna be based off of that. That's
15:36
a factor. It's a huge factor. It is it is so
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I'm curious to hear though Having spent, you
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know this much time in public in his industry
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What is one thing that you really miss about
15:46
that versus not? So what I miss I miss I miss
15:52
the people okay that that that really made it
15:55
made it everything for me, you know, there were
15:57
Times where you know, I was serving Coca -Cola
16:02
was my kind of primary account when I was there.
16:05
And so we bonded around, you know, the war, we
16:09
felt like that we were going through to kind
16:11
of meet these deadlines, get the numbers right
16:13
and get things out. And, you know, look, I, you
16:16
know, I don't want to sit here and glamorize
16:17
the suck it, you know, because, you know, I don't
16:20
want to lie to anybody and say, look, the profession
16:22
is very difficult. The regulatory space is kind
16:26
of very strange right now. And so the magnitude
16:29
that your errors can have on not only your personal
16:32
career, firm reputation, so on and so forth.
16:35
It's higher than it's ever been in that regard.
16:38
So, you know, that that can't be lost. But the
16:42
thing that really kind of changes the whole quality
16:45
of that is you being able to form those relationships.
16:48
Right. And that translates to everything. You
16:50
know, as of late, I've had the opportunity, the
16:54
honor, really, to serve on the board of the AICPA.
16:58
And so, again, you know, that selection was based
17:03
off of what I had done and the, you know, being
17:08
able to speak up, right? And have something important
17:10
to say when people wanted to hear it. And then,
17:12
you know, garnering respect to people that were
17:14
in my circle. And so it's a distinct honor. But
17:17
through that service, right, I'm continuing to
17:21
form some very strong personal relationships.
17:23
And so that's the most enriching part of it for
17:26
me, is that that's what I get out of it, right?
17:28
I'm giving, right, my time. Whatever people think
17:31
I know right in my perspective in order for us
17:35
to kind of get to the right answer But you know
17:38
I get as much out of it because I get to form
17:40
these relations learn from all these other people
17:42
and and go from there so it's it's um That's
17:45
what I miss. I miss kind of that collaboration
17:48
with people What do I miss or what don't I miss?
17:53
It's the hours. Let's be clear. It's the hours.
17:56
It's the politics of it, right because What you
18:00
have to know is look, their game is attrition
18:04
in terms of who rises to the top. And there's
18:07
so many macro things that you can't control in
18:09
terms of if someone does have aspirations to
18:12
become a partner, a lot of it's gonna be out
18:15
of your control. Your timing may be bad. They
18:18
may have made a bunch of partners the year before
18:20
and guess what? There's no room because the guys
18:23
at the top don't wanna retire yet. They're milking
18:26
the kitty just the way they need to. It may not
18:29
be your time or you're going to have to wait
18:30
longer. And I'm a very impatient person, so it's
18:33
not okay. It doesn't work. No, it's it's fair.
18:37
It's fair because something has to give. It does.
18:40
Something has to give. Absolutely. So how was
18:42
your first week as a CFO? I'm curious to hear
18:45
like because as an auditor, like your job is
18:48
to, you know, check what's wrong, make recommendation,
18:50
and then you come in house. And now it's your
18:53
job to implement those recommendations and build
18:55
like it's. It's a total different game. So I'm
18:58
curious to hear what was that first month like
19:00
for you coming from public accounting? I was
19:03
drinking through a fire hose, right? For sure.
19:06
Because I think it's contextual. I think it depends
19:09
on what company you go into kind of exiting audit,
19:14
right? And even having done so many public company
19:18
audits up to that time, what I realized very
19:20
quickly was that there was so much to the job
19:24
inside of a finance organization. that had nothing
19:27
to do with the actual numbers, right? When you're
19:31
dealing with, depending on the size of the organization
19:33
and whether you're public or not, you've got
19:36
this whole finance aspect of it, right? From
19:38
a, let's say if you don't have a large treasury
19:40
organization, well, you're the treasury. So you're
19:45
just having to figure out finance and the nuances
19:47
of finance and is this a good debt versus equity
19:51
structure? Is this the right way to go? Sometimes
19:55
you're guessing you're utilizing every resource
19:58
you can. And then there's the whole securities
20:02
and exchange aspect of it, which was, I thought
20:05
I knew finance, securities, and exchange, and
20:08
I realized how much I didn't know. So I had to
20:10
roll up my sleeves and kind of really dig in
20:12
there. And so that was the toughest part of it,
20:16
is that moving to the other side and learning
20:19
all of these. the administrative aspect of all
20:23
that piece in terms of getting your market data,
20:25
getting your security data. How do you analyze
20:27
it? What do you use it for? Those are the things
20:29
that, you know, you're not gonna pick that up
20:32
as a public company auditor. You're on the outside
20:35
looking at some of the results of it, but not
20:38
the machinations of it, right? And so that's
20:40
the part where I really had to sharpen my pencil
20:43
and really had to dig in and spend, you know,
20:46
a number of hours getting my hand wrapped around
20:48
that. but you know the upside though is that
20:54
building teams is what you do and you know if
20:57
you're in the audit world and really throughout
21:00
any aspect of working in public company once
21:02
you get to a level of manager senior manager
21:04
you've got to build your team you've got to you
21:06
know kind of monitor what everyone's doing and
21:09
work through that and so that doesn't get lost
21:11
you know you still have that skill and frankly
21:15
you know I had our I had a lot of heavy engagement
21:19
with Nava coming up as, you know, a young senior
21:22
and manager up through senior manager. I was
21:25
president of the Atlanta chapter of Nava, probably
21:28
the shortest stint because it was right on the
21:31
beginning of me going on my second. So I made
21:34
me president. I said, hey, guys, I got to go.
21:35
You guys got to find somebody. They said, thank
21:39
you for your service. You haven't done that much.
21:42
So what I tell anybody is get engaged. outside
21:47
of your company where you can, because you're
21:50
getting these invaluable reps at leadership,
21:54
at working inside an organization, at motivating
21:58
people to kind of help you when they're just
22:01
giving their time gratis, right? Those are skills
22:03
that you pick up that you wouldn't obtain just
22:07
working inside your organization, or you won't
22:10
get those opportunities until much further on
22:13
down your career. And then it's brand new. So
22:16
you've got this kind of storage, this kitty of
22:18
information that you can draw from and put that
22:21
out there. And people too, that you meet along
22:23
the way. Absolutely. Having more CFO friends
22:26
that you can call. Like, I have so many on speed
22:29
dial. Have you seen this? Am I thinking about
22:32
this the right way? Yes. Why do we do this? So
22:36
those are the type of questions you need, especially
22:38
when you're in a situation where it's brand new
22:40
to you and you're trying to figure out your way.
22:42
It's crazy. Yes. Curious to hear though, besides
22:45
that, what did you have to like learn or unlearn
22:48
once you came into industry? There's a difference
22:52
in the level of, at times, there's a difference
22:54
in the level of motivation that I've experienced,
22:58
right, with people in the finance organization.
23:01
You come from a public accounting firm, by and
23:04
large, we're all type A, we're driven, you know,
23:07
we want to impress. And so when you move outside
23:10
of public to industry, it just may not be the
23:14
same, right? So you're learning how to operate
23:17
in an organization that isn't as driven, let's
23:22
say, focused on deliverables and results. And
23:25
so you've got to find a way to motivate people.
23:28
And so, you know, I read a lot of Sun Tzu's Art
23:31
of War as a kid, and I say as a kid, you know,
23:34
when I was probably in my 20s, I read that a
23:37
couple of times, I read Machiavelli's The Prince,
23:40
because I wanted to understand, you know, how
23:45
do I get people to move in a way? I realize you
23:48
had to find out what's important to them, right?
23:50
So being a leader, to be a good leader, I believe,
23:53
you have to listen to your people, get to know
23:55
your people so that you can understand, because
23:57
compensation can't be the only motivation factor,
24:00
right? You'll get what you pay for, and depending
24:02
on how, you know, what role it is, exactly that,
24:07
right? And so you have to find a way to kind
24:10
of connect with people almost to where I had
24:14
people that I worked for during my career that
24:16
I would run through a brick wall for, because
24:19
I believed in them. I wanted them to be successful.
24:22
And so you have to find a way to be that for
24:24
other people. And that's only through connection.
24:27
That's only through people feeling as though
24:29
you care about them, not just what they do, and
24:33
that will motivate them to go the extra mile
24:36
for you. That's been my experience. Or that's
24:38
how I've tried to lead. Successful or not, I'll
24:41
let you know. That's so important, though, because
24:45
when you think about our, you know, curriculum,
24:48
accounting and finance, there's nothing about
24:50
leadership in it. There is nothing about, you
24:52
know, psychology or everything is that even when
24:56
you look at the different classes, accounting
24:59
101, 102, financial management, cost accounting,
25:02
there is nothing about people. and then you get
25:05
into the role and you realize, even in public
25:07
accounting, the higher you go, it's all people.
25:10
It's all about people. It's all about people.
25:14
And look, maybe I was smart enough back then
25:18
to kind of dig into this aspect of it. There's
25:22
a book, 21 Irrefutable Laws of Leadership, that
25:25
I read post -graduation that really helped me
25:29
understand what motivates people in the different
25:33
levels of leadership. Because you've got to know
25:35
how good you can be, right? Because supposedly
25:38
there's a ceiling in terms of how good of a leader
25:41
you can be, right? Because, you know, if you're
25:44
a 10 on the leadership scale, then you can attract
25:46
10 talent, right? But if you're just a five,
25:49
then you've got to be able to recognize what
25:51
are your strengths? What are your weaknesses?
25:53
How do you move there? And how do you work on
25:57
those other skills in order to become a better
25:59
leader? And so you're right. The people aspect
26:03
of it is not taught. It's only learned. But there's
26:07
tons of resources out there for you to do it.
26:09
You just got to put in the time and the effort.
26:12
I really want what you want that for your or
26:15
that aspect of your career. And listen, here's
26:18
what you got to know. That's going to change.
26:20
Right. But, you know, I'm a father and I'm a
26:25
father first and foremost. Right. So, you know,
26:27
she's nine years old now and, you know, she's
26:31
my new wife. And so I think I was mentioning
26:34
to you that at this point in my career, if I
26:39
never receive another accolade, if no one else
26:43
ever knows my name, when this is all said and
26:45
done, the only thing that I want is for her to
26:49
want to spend time with me when she's out in
26:53
the world. That's the only value I have. Everything
26:57
else is icing on the cake. I want to be who she
27:01
needs me to be. But I really won't let anything
27:06
detract from that because that's my primary focus.
27:09
I want to do a good job. I want to provide for
27:11
my family. But that's who I am today. I happen
27:18
to be a CFO. I happen to be in the accounting
27:21
profession. But I want to be known by her as
27:27
a fantastic father and someone that she looks
27:30
up to. And that's it. Everything else is easy
27:33
after that. Wow. That's beautiful because a couple
27:37
years ago, you know, in the grind, I wanted to
27:39
become a CFO and all that. I think I was VP of
27:42
finance and accounting. I told you that. And
27:45
I was working late one day because at the time,
27:47
the company I was working for was based in San
27:49
Francisco. Which meant when I woke up, they were
27:53
still asleep. And so by 6 p .m. here was just
27:56
3 p .m. there. So I had longer days. So and I'm
28:00
the cook. I don't have a wife. I have a husband
28:02
who doesn't cook. Now, now, now, now. So it wasn't
28:08
like, you know, so we had to step in a little
28:10
bit and, you know, stepping in. It was just what
28:13
you get. Chick -fil -A. He cooked Chick -fil
28:15
-A. We cooked Chick -fil -A a lot during those
28:18
times. Good job. But what I remember so vividly
28:22
is she came one day and she was like, what are
28:25
you doing? You know, I'm an accountant. And she
28:27
said, that's what it is. I don't want to do that
28:30
when I grow up. And he broke my heart. And it
28:34
completely changed how I work because I thought
28:38
I was good at setting boundaries. But hearing
28:40
it from my child, I was like, oof. Tell you everything
28:44
from the mouths of babes is what they say. Yes.
28:48
Yes. So it completely changed how I showed up,
28:52
the thing I said yes to, and how I responded
28:55
to her. But it completely changed me on that
28:58
leadership side of how I was spending my time.
29:03
And it's so profound when you said, yeah, at
29:05
the end of the day, what is your new why and
29:08
how it changes? But for others who may not have
29:11
kids or still want to grow on that leadership
29:14
side, You mentioned resources you mentioned you
29:16
obviously read a book a lot of books because
29:19
you mentioned like five books Already, but what
29:22
are other things that you think can help people
29:24
like find that? Healthy balance right because
29:27
you don't want to be all in of I work all these
29:30
hours I make all this money and I have no life.
29:33
Yeah. Well, I have a life and I'm broke You know
29:37
there is in credits right like yeah, what have
29:40
you found really helped in that? in terms of
29:43
striking balance? Yes. No is a powerful word.
29:47
It's a complete sentence, right? I've always
29:49
struggled with not taking advantage of the opportunities
29:53
that were presented for me. I would always say
29:55
yes, right? And so I think there's a time for
29:59
that in your career, right? Where you absolutely
30:02
say yes to everything, right? Say yes to the
30:05
projects and it'll pay dividends. But I think
30:09
that And I'm envious of this new generation a
30:14
little bit in the sense that their career doesn't
30:18
define them. Oh, yeah. Right. I think that's
30:21
fantastic because, you know, I believe that the
30:23
older generations, that's that who they were,
30:26
right, is what defines who they are in the world.
30:30
And that can that that's a heavy handcuff to
30:32
put yourself right. It's a heavy cross to carry.
30:35
So in kind of finding the balance. I heard there's
30:40
a story that's out there where I think it was
30:42
a teacher giving a seminar and they got this
30:45
big glass jar and they put a bunch of heavy rocks
30:48
into it. It's like, is it full? And you continue
30:51
to put things in. You add smaller pebbles and
30:53
then sand and then water. The key there is you
30:56
start with the things that are most important
30:58
in your life. Every person has to go through
31:00
that evaluation on their own. And here's the
31:02
thing, it will shift. Because when I first started,
31:05
I just wanted money, opportunity, because the
31:08
money allowed me to do the other things I like
31:10
to do. I grew up in Alabama, so I like to go
31:13
hunt, I like to go hang out with my friends.
31:17
I grew up having a bush hog, a hundred acres
31:19
as a kid, so those are the things that I like
31:23
to do outside of work. But as I went along, my
31:28
Y changed. It was okay, well, my relationships
31:31
became more important. So I had to kind of move
31:35
things around. Does that mean you may have to
31:37
kind of take a lesser role at work or kind of
31:42
ride out a position a little bit longer and not
31:44
get that next promotion because this is more
31:46
important. You have to constantly go through
31:49
the process what's important to you, right? And
31:53
if that's important to you, are you serving it
31:57
properly? And if not, you gotta be strong enough
32:00
to make the changes to do so. That's what I would
32:05
tell anybody right, but you've got this luxury
32:08
that those first call it ten years of your career
32:12
Go all out, you know focus on this look up in
32:17
ten years and then you would have obtained this
32:23
capital individuals right this not this knowledge
32:27
reports repository that you've gained Right you
32:30
allow people to pour into you start there Right.
32:33
And after that, then you can start making some
32:35
of those harder decisions in life. You know,
32:37
um, I didn't think about kids, you know, before
32:40
I turned 30. Now, mind you, if you'd asked me
32:42
in college, I was going to have three kids by
32:44
the time I was 28. Well, life has a funny show.
32:48
That's my husband and I were going to have four
32:50
kids. We have to, so, you know, um, so, you know,
32:54
it just didn't lay out for me, um, in that way.
32:56
But, you know, I wouldn't trade it for the world
33:00
at this point. And there are times where, you
33:03
know, it's so good now. I was like, well, I didn't
33:05
do this early. Well, look, God has a funny way
33:08
of saying he's like, I'll give you what you're
33:10
ready for. And I was not ready prior to then.
33:13
But, you know, it's and look, it's afforded me
33:15
to be a better father. I know today than I would
33:19
have been, you know, if we had started 10 years
33:22
earlier. Right. So that, you know, and you'll
33:25
hear me talk about, you know, family and my daughter
33:27
a lot in almost every conversation that I have,
33:30
because That's my guiding light. Right. And so
33:34
I have the fortune of having that now. Now, again,
33:36
going back to kind of the people that aren't
33:38
there in their in their path, really plot out
33:41
where you want to be, how you how you want to
33:44
live your life. Because when all this is said
33:47
and done, the organization probably still be
33:50
there when you retire or leave. Right. All this
33:53
will still be around when it's over. And so you've
33:56
got to answer to somebody and it's going to be
33:58
the person in the mirror. Right. You know, Does
34:02
that really enrich you? Is that the value that
34:04
you want to have in your life? Sound like a motivational
34:07
speaker. But I mean, I think this is real because,
34:09
you know, I was sharing with you one thing that
34:12
really touched me not too long ago was it was
34:15
a short of a guy, you know, I think he was a
34:17
multimillionaire or billionaire. They were asked,
34:19
you know, he's kind of this conversation where
34:21
he says, listen, go through all these accolades,
34:24
you know, you go through his career, mass all
34:28
this money, you have mass all these resources.
34:31
And at the end of it, if because you were taken
34:35
away from your family for so much that your grown
34:38
children don't seek you out to spend time with
34:41
you, then what was it worth at the end of the
34:46
day? That's the one price I'm unwilling to pay.
34:52
This is all said and done, right? So she showed
34:55
up, all right, this is it. She'll get everything
34:57
from this point forward. Most importantly, she'll
35:01
get my attention whenever she wants it. That,
35:04
to me, makes everything. After that, I don't
35:09
know that I really care. I want to do a good
35:11
job. I don't want to sully my name by, you know,
35:14
not being there for the roles that I have. But,
35:17
you know, none of that can take away from her.
35:22
So, look, I'm fortunate in that I have a why.
35:25
I love it. I enjoy it. But I won't give that
35:28
up. Oh, that is so nice. And so one of my last
35:32
questions is for the senior managers here that
35:35
are in audit, for example, that want to make
35:37
the move into industry, what will be your advice
35:39
to them? So first thing I tell them is really
35:44
evaluate. Don't take your first opportunity,
35:47
right? Really evaluate the culture of the company,
35:51
right? Because you have to understand you're
35:55
coming from if let's say you were at one of the
35:58
top 50 firms in the country, you are coming from
36:03
a very well developed organization and structure.
36:09
And so you have to really say to yourselves,
36:12
you know, so you've been in this real comfortable
36:15
kind of environment and blanket for the longest
36:16
time. So do your due diligence, not just on the
36:22
company's metrics on and so forth, but the culture
36:24
of the organization. So a lot of times you'll
36:27
get that first nod. You'll be like, all right,
36:28
yep, this is my opportunity. I get to go be a
36:29
CFO. Because it can change kind of the context
36:34
of that. You'll end up, you can go into a very
36:37
entrepreneurial situation, right? A organization,
36:41
let's say, maybe they're five to seven years
36:43
old, you're on the ground floor. It's a great
36:44
opportunity, but you've got to know that going
36:47
in. So you really have to kind of do some real
36:50
introspection and say, okay, yep, I'm gonna put
36:53
my head down. And what am I sacrificing at the
36:56
time that I do that? Who are you doing it for?
36:59
Do they understand that? Are you having those
37:01
conversations? Now, if you're single, senior
37:04
manager coming out, drive forward, right? But
37:08
what I tell people is never lose sight of the
37:12
people that are also in your circle. If you have
37:15
a family, open that conversation up, right? Like,
37:19
yeah, it's on your shoulders to support your
37:21
family, but open that conversation up. Let everybody
37:24
understand the sacrifice that's about to happen.
37:26
Um, so they buy in on it. So, um, you're not
37:30
carrying an extra cross while you're going out
37:32
there doing it. That's what I tell people. That's
37:34
such a great advice. I wish I had that years
37:36
ago. Thank you for sharing. Cause I read the,
37:41
the first 90 days, um, book and he was talking
37:44
about how, like before you, you hop into any
37:47
role. You need to make sure you're not trying
37:50
to plan a big move, like something major going
37:52
on, because your attention will focus and you
37:55
can really put a stress on those relationships.
37:58
And I didn't realize how much that meant, but
38:02
that's such a great advice. Yeah. People have
38:04
to buy into your plan. And so everyone's, every
38:08
household is different, right? But having that
38:11
buy -in and that support at the end of the day
38:14
will really make it a more meaningful relationship
38:18
and for them to take the ride with you as opposed
38:22
to, you know, you're looking at them in the rear
38:25
view while you're out doing what you're doing,
38:26
right? Because that can get lost. You know, going
38:29
back to kids, right? You know, all they want
38:32
is your presence and your attention, right? And
38:34
so now look, you know, in hindsight, right? You
38:39
know, my father, you know, like I said, started
38:44
a CPA firm in Alabama, right, which was minority
38:47
on CPR, which unheard of, you know, you served
38:50
as revenue commissioner of the state of Alabama
38:53
under George Wallace, right, and then director
38:56
of finance under Jim Folsom, right. So he was
39:00
gone a lot, right. And so I have the benefit
39:03
of having gone through that experience. But I
39:06
also have an absolute appreciation for what it
39:10
was able to provide for me. right down the line.
39:14
And so, yeah, there was a sacrifice. We did have
39:17
a conversation about him going to work for George
39:20
Wallace, right? Because actually George has got
39:22
his own story. And so, you know, trust I had
39:25
my father was that he explained to me, he's like,
39:28
listen, George is not the same man that he was.
39:30
And that's why I'm doing this, you know, for
39:32
a number of reasons. So I understood sacrifice
39:36
as a child in the benefit of a greater good that
39:39
a lot of people didn't have to experience. But
39:42
I'm also mindful of what that does on the back
39:47
end to the family. You know, and so I don't have
39:50
anything negative to say about, you know, my
39:53
upbringing, my childhood, because it's provided
39:54
me everything where I am today. Give me great
39:57
opportunities. I've done my best to take full
39:59
advantage of those opportunities and not squander
40:02
them because I knew that there was sacrifice
40:04
made all along the way to get there. And it means
40:08
a lot to me. Right. And so that was important.
40:12
But at the same time, I sit here and say, I don't
40:16
know that I want my daughter to ever experience
40:19
that. But if we do, that's going to be a conversation
40:22
that we're going to have. And because I want
40:24
her to buy in because she's got to always remember,
40:27
she's the most important thing. I was like, daddy
40:29
won't do this if this doesn't pan out. Or we'll
40:33
have a longer conversation where I get her on
40:34
my side eventually. Try. I will attempt. She's
40:39
the boss. So what is one truth about your career
40:42
that you rarely say out loud? So it's starting
40:47
to be said more. Um, and I've said this in a
40:50
number of rooms. I actually, I said it at my
40:54
new board member orientation for the ICPA. Um,
40:58
you know, we went through the orientation. We
40:59
kind of go through the first meeting and we're
41:02
having kind of a hot wash, a debrief at the end
41:04
of the meeting. And my comment was, I feel like
41:09
I'm an imposter in the room. And I realized I'd
41:13
started to feel that throughout most of my career
41:16
when people selected me to do things. Because
41:19
I was shocked that I got the opportunity. And
41:22
when you start looking at the people that are
41:24
with you, you say to yourself, well, I'm not
41:26
them. Why am I here? Should I be here? And that'll
41:30
happen as you progress through your career, where
41:31
you get invited into these more important rooms.
41:34
You're sitting down at the table where critical
41:37
decisions are being made. And that, you know,
41:42
I've started to kind of talk about that. And
41:45
it started to get coined a lot more. Yes. You
41:47
know, this imposter syndrome where you're like,
41:51
I don't know why I'm here, but you have to shake
41:55
that as soon as possible. Acknowledge it. Because
41:59
that humility is what's going to benefit you
42:01
because it's going to help you ask questions.
42:03
Like if you don't know, somebody else may not
42:07
know as well. So never take that for granted.
42:10
So relish that. But yeah, I've always felt like
42:14
I was an imposter in the room. I never felt like
42:16
I was good enough. Other people perceive that
42:18
I was because they thought that I had some value.
42:21
And so I have to rest on those laurels. So don't
42:24
second guess yourself. Do the work. put in the
42:28
effort after you're there to prove it to yourself.
42:32
Because if you're proving it to yourself, everyone
42:34
else is going to see it. They're going to see
42:36
the effort. They're going to see the engagement.
42:38
They're going to see the participation. And it'll
42:41
continue to pay dividends. But you have to shake
42:44
that off. But I've always felt like an imposter.
42:46
Because listen, I've worked with some very intelligent
42:50
people. I was a good auditor. I wasn't a great
42:54
one. I was a good technician. and the greatest
42:57
technician. And so there's some aspect to either
43:00
my personality, kind of how I operate, how I
43:02
collaborate. Those are my stronger suits. And
43:05
so, you know, that kind of keeps me engaged with
43:07
people, knowing that I'll kind of find the answer.
43:09
And I don't have it in the beginning, but, you
43:13
know, shake that off. But, yeah, my biggest truth
43:16
is like, I've always felt like an imposter, but
43:18
it works because it compels you to drive a little
43:23
bit harder. to shake that out of yourself. And
43:28
the benefits are exponential after that. I think,
43:30
I think, you know, it runs from there. That's
43:33
amazing because I would not have thought like
43:36
looking at your resume and the things that, I
43:38
mean, you want the AICPA console and all that
43:41
stuff. A blind dog finds a bone every now and
43:44
then, right? The broken clock is right twice.
43:47
So like, listen, you know, my goal there is,
43:53
is to ensure that they're not wrong about their
43:57
choice. When you're given the opportunity, make
44:00
them right. If you have that in the back of your
44:03
mind, you're gonna be successful. If your goal
44:06
is just to prove them right in their choice,
44:09
because at the moments where you think you're
44:13
supposed to be there, I think that's when you
44:16
start to falter. Don't try as hard because, hey,
44:19
I'm supposed to be here. Are you? Well, you've
44:22
got to prove that every day, right? That's what
44:25
it is. You know, you're number one in the world
44:26
in whatever you do, you know, be it whatever
44:31
sport you play. Yeah, you got to the top. You
44:34
got to prove it every day. And, you know, which
44:37
means you got to work twice as hard. Otherwise,
44:39
you know, it will go away. They'll take it away
44:41
from you to prove it. Yeah. Thank you so much
44:45
for sharing my last question. Curiously here.
44:47
What is your favorite thing to do on a weekend
44:49
here in Atlanta? As you can see, I take up a
44:54
little bit of space, so food will be involved,
44:57
right? Signified of that. Look, the reason I
45:02
love this city is because it's a cultural mecca,
45:05
right? And so what I love to do is find a new
45:10
restaurant, something I haven't been to, and
45:14
try and introduce my daughter to some new cuisine,
45:16
try and break her out of, you know... kind of
45:20
dino dino chicken nuggets. Oh, gosh. Right now,
45:24
she's a noodle theme. If it's Asian or Italian,
45:28
if there's noodles in the dish, game on. So and
45:32
unfortunately, I've gotten her introduced to
45:35
duck. Right. So like, you know, ducks on her
45:38
menu, but I can't get her to eat. a pork chop,
45:42
so go figure. I still don't understand it, but
45:45
just raise the bar. So it'll be spending time
45:49
with family, trying a new meal or something like
45:53
that. But listen, this city's amazing. It's continuing
45:58
to flourish as a financial, cultural epicenter,
46:06
not just in the Southeast, but nationwide. We've
46:10
got to continue to kind of foster that and bring
46:13
more companies here in that regard. But it's
46:16
an amazing place. I don't know that I would have
46:18
wanted to raise my child anywhere else because
46:21
it's such a diverse and kind of open city. So
46:26
yeah, food will be involved for sure. Same here.
46:32
Like I'm planning my husband's Father's Day weekend.
46:34
You think it's my weekend because I'm planning
46:36
it around the things I like. Listen, what dads
46:41
realize a long time ago is that nothing belongs
46:44
to us anymore. Our birthdays don't belong to
46:46
us anymore. Father's Day, you know, it's low
46:51
on the list of important holidays. So the fact
46:53
that it gets remembered is our only win. It's
46:58
not that bad. I mean, he also likes it. Yeah.
47:00
That's what he says. I'll leave that there. I'll
47:05
leave that right there. Okay. He wants to sleep
47:11
peacefully. No, he had a good time, didn't he?
47:15
Yeah. Right. He was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, baby.
47:17
This was the best one yet. Yes. Well, thank you.
47:23
Thank you so much for being on this show. Fantastic.
47:27
I appreciate it. You made this very, uh, a warm
47:30
environment. I'll be honest with you. Um, I'll
47:34
go ahead and say this, you know, I had a lot
47:36
of trepidation, you know, being on camera first
47:40
time, I share with you, I'll say this out loud
47:42
in my head, you know, I sound like Barry White,
47:45
right? However, I've been told, I lean more Kevin
47:49
Hart. And so I've got to accept that. And when
47:52
this plays back, I've got to go through a whole
47:55
soul searching thing and just come to acceptance.
47:59
So please be kind. Thank you. Thank you, sir.
48:11
I broke her people. I broke. Yes. Mission accomplished.
48:15
You did. Okay. We're going to get to the outro.
48:24
We're going to close here in a second, but. Okay.
48:30
We're going to record this. So leave that in.
48:34
Leave it in. I've been wanting to say that for
48:37
a long time. Even it will be left in. Thank you,
48:44
sir. That's it for this episode. I think I'm
48:52
ready. We had to take like 30 minutes before
48:57
we started this episode because this man is too
48:59
funny. I know you're acting serious. Most of
49:03
the episode. I did my best, but now that's it.
49:11
That's it for today's episode of life from Atlanta
49:15
the diary of a CFO I love doing this in person
49:17
and you can definitely feel the difference So
49:20
subscribe and share this with someone who needs
49:22
it and I'll see you in the next one And we're
49:28
out