Latest / Popcorn and Pals / Ep 9 - Starship Troopers (1997)

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Ep 9 - Starship Troopers (1997) · Popcorn and Pals

• speaker-1: Welcome back to Popcorn and Pals, the podcast where we talk about all sorts of movies, good and bad, and give you our completely unqualified takes on them. He's Zach and I'm Justin. And today we are talking about the 1997 sci-fi epic that was snubbed by Titanic for best picture. It's Starship Troopers. But before we dive into the arachnid details, Zachary, how are things? They're good. speaker-0: Good. You know, got off vacation. Went skiing with my family. My son skied for the first time. Wow. It is very cute watching a four-year-old ski. He loved it. yeah. I mean, they're like ⁓ ⁓ button, like the bunniest of bunny slopes. Like I'm pretty sure like ⁓ they weren't pushing him along, he wouldn't be going. speaker-1: Did he stay up the whole time? All right. speaker-0: But he loved it. It's like all he wanted to do, all he could talk about, I guess they give the kids like breaks during the day. And he didn't take like a single break. They were like, you've got to drink some water. But he was all about it. speaker-1: Man, he's gonna be like the next Johnny Tsunami. speaker-0: Yeah, they were, we were at Breckridge, Colorado and they call like when I was growing up, I learned to ski outside of Reno, which is where I'm from. And we were on a mountain called Mount Rose. And so the little kids were called the Rosebuds. speaker-1: Wow, that's really clever. That's funny. speaker-0: ⁓ But and so my was very disappointed that H wasn't gonna be a rosebud for the first time ⁓ But place we were they were called the nuggets So my Colorado nuggets, I so that was very cute speaker-1: Yeah, that's right. Yeah, yeah. good. Yeah, I'm glad you guys got to ski because now we're kind of moving, at least here in Tennessee, moving into like hot weather. Springtime. speaker-0: Yeah, we're already getting ready for spring baseball for my son, so he's gonna do t-ball. And then my daughter did her very first ballerina class. Wow. Very cute. He has a leotard on and everything. speaker-1: Yeah. Did it make you want to put one on too? You know? You do have daddy-daughter dances coming up soon, before you know it. We both do, but... speaker-0: I don't think I have to wear leotards. I don't know what daddy daughter dances you're going. speaker-1: I'm still laughing. Technically you can if you want to. Whether you're required to is a different story. speaker-0: I've leotard in two, three years, you know, so. speaker-1: That's a separate Well good yeah, it's I don't know we're moving into for everybody listening today's daylight savings so I feel like we're everybody's thrown off by it, but somehow we are already in spring and ⁓ Winter is over. Yeah. Yeah now it comes the fun part cuz now we're in like tornado season speaker-0: yeah, ⁓ it's going to be bad weather ⁓ ⁓ That's the problem with like being in Tennessee, it's like subtropical. ⁓ like, I feel like ⁓ spring is great, ⁓ ⁓ much of it is just dominated by just ⁓ and bad weather. Yeah. more so than ever before. speaker-1: Mm. I yeah. I feel like this time of the year it's always scary. There's always something happening, it seems like. ⁓ speaker-0: Plus we're not out of the woods yet. We'll probably have like one more freeze come through randomly or something like that. So how about you? What have you guys been up to? speaker-1: Not a whole lot. ⁓ We really haven't done like that much. I mean, it's been really nice with warmer weather being able to get outside, having small kids during wintertime and cold weather just sucks. ⁓ we're getting ready for some trips. My wife is taking trips next month ⁓ with her work. ⁓ so really, I mean, we're kind of just laying low until then. We don't have a whole lot going on this month, but. Yeah, it's been kind of boring, which has been why it's been so fun to watch Starship Troopers. Because it was a blast from the past. speaker-0: I was curious too, ⁓ have you been following the Warner Brothers, Netflix, Paramount News and all that? I was wondering your thoughts on it. speaker-1: Sure. ⁓ It's a lose-lose anyway, Hugo. Right? I mean, not to get... I feel like it's a difficult conversation to have without getting political. speaker-0: Sure, yeah, well there's a lot of like that dumb political stuff around it. speaker-1: Yeah, yeah, but either way you split it. feel like the Netflix or ⁓ Paramount Skydance neither is good to cannibalize Warner Brothers because it just it means worse speaker-0: Yeah, from like a movie watching perspective, not like whatever the political stuff, you know, that there's a lot of that annoying stuff kind of surrounding all of it and money and whatever. But for me, from like a movie watching perspective, like that's the most disappointing thing about all. speaker-1: Yeah. what did the, ⁓ can't remember. it Zaslav? The Warner Brothers? Yeah. The Warner Brothers CEO. He's, I can't remember what he said exactly verbatim, but he said something to the effect of like this sale is going to create tremendous value for our shareholders. And from a creative standpoint, that is the worst possible thing you can hear. It's really bad. but speaker-0: as a Cause like is Netflix gonna preserve the theatrical experience? Is Paramount gonna double the movies they produce per year? answer is probably no to both of those questions. speaker-1: Yeah, I mean I feel like in the long term you yeah, all you're doing is you're killing creativity and you're putting more dollars in speaker-0: some other studio will just come out of the woodwork and there because like the brain like thing is like especially between Paramount and Warner Brothers like speaker-1: You know. speaker-0: It's not like either one of them is gaining like a distribution or it's not like Disney buying Warner Brothers, even though I would not like that either necessarily. like Disney makes kids movies, you know, you know, obviously they have older movies and they have different departments, but like, they've already bought Fox. So they've already bought their version of a Paramount. But at least like when they bought Fox, it was like two lanes that they were occupying. were filling. So like you could see how they're not going to make less movies. speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: because both lanes need their lane. Warner Brothers and Paramount like they make the same movie. All the same stuff. So it's like, I don't even know what one gains from the other one, you know. speaker-1: Yeah. They do all of the exact same things. They just, they gain a bigger backlog, especially with like streaming and stuff. Cause I feel like everything that's what it's all about is streaming, which it just makes it way more of a headache for us as consumers. yeah, I think the unfortunate part is that it will just keep reducing down. movies and any kind of, mean, like TV for that matter too, to things that make sense business wise, that's gonna return their investments and not push creativity. ⁓ Which I feel like is kind of what we've been seeing. It's kind of like what we talked about when, know, initially coming up with the concept for this podcast is that a lot of modern stuff is just not objectively ⁓ It's different than what's been done in the past. I feel like there's less creativity, which is why we wanted to look at older movies and watch older things. speaker-0: Yeah, and that model of like making 20 each studio making like 20 movies a year and like having only they're all mid to low budget and they're all, you know, only three of them have to hit big covers everyone and then a few other hit big. They make some profit and then, know, you have losers. It's like that model is just getting further and further away and cannibalizing studios with the already limited number of movies that are being produced. It's like, yeah. speaker-1: Yeah. Yeah. speaker-0: Netflix kind of follows that model. They produce a million movies a year and shows a year. Some of it they're buying, right? But like, but they're not preserving the theatrical experience with that. It's like, don't know what they gain from producing a bunch of movies other than like, I guess like just refusing to cancel your subscription. But you know. speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: I don't know. So yeah, I'm with you. I was just curious your thoughts because obviously it was with Netflix and now it's back to Paramount and I've been following it. listened to a podcast called The Weekly Planet, which is like an entertainment podcast. They've been covering it pretty closely. And so was just curious what you thought about it because to me it's just like, just depressing. ⁓ speaker-1: Yeah. It is. mean, I guess we'll see if it actually goes through. Like I know it's still not like a done deal, but it seems like this time it might go through. yeah, I don't know. In a weird world, does seem weird or it seems odd that a company as large as Warner Brothers would just allow itself to be bought out. But I don't know. Stranger things have happened. ⁓ speaker-0: Yeah, I guess it just depends on who's getting paid. speaker-1: Exactly, Because I mean it's a ton of money. really is. But yeah, it'll be interesting to see for sure. speaker-0: good news is when you ⁓ a of billionaires running companies, ⁓ understand the normal person. ⁓ get in ⁓ mind of human beings. speaker-1: They know the consumers. They know what we want. speaker-0: man, anyways, well that's why when you go to Starship Troopers, go back to a time simpler, more humble. speaker-1: Yeah, exactly. ⁓ the type of movie that Starship Troopers is, I don't know if it would be made today. I probably doubt it. speaker-0: Yeah. They would produce. They're all about making space epics, but it would be the most like sanitized, you know, shoved through focus groups and all that kind of stuff version where I feel we'll get into our thoughts on this movie. But, you know, Verhoeven had a very specific ⁓ I think. speaker-1: Yeah. Yes, he does. speaker-0: One of not the spoil age the best or age the worst, but I think his vision, I think, allowing the artist to have their own vision is what age the best. think even today in a lot of the big blockbusters that are really successful, you know, whether that's the Barbie movie or Oppenheimer, I think there's more appreciation for a single vision than there's been in a long time, which is nice. ⁓ But before we get started, do you want to my synopsis for Starship Troopers? speaker-1: I would love to. I can't wait to hear your thoughts. speaker-0: I couldn't decide on how to do this one. So I came up with two. How do you vote on which one you think is the better one? All right. First one. A man joins the military to impress a girl. When she dumps him, he decides to sleep with the woman he's been friend zoning since high school. There's also alien bugs. speaker-1: Okay. That's a strong contender. That might be it. Let's see the other one. speaker-0: Alright, alright. Citizen Kane of space operas. and unexpectedly sharp commentary on society. This sweeping epic of love, brutality, and intergalactic war follows a motley crew of 28-year-old high schoolers as they travel the galaxy kicking alien bug ass. From Klendathu to Zagama Beach, it's a nonstop thrill ride that can only be described as a group of 14-year-old boys' favorite movie. speaker-1: That's it. Number two wins. Number two wins by far. That was really well done. Cheers to you. Yeah, the 28 year old high school. That's just the most true statement in that whole thing. Yeah, very, very well said. Starship Troopers is... It is a... It's an adventure. don't want to spoil too much of it before we get into it. Give us the general plot summary first so that we can jump into it. speaker-0: ⁓ So we'll go yeah, let's go do podcast structure real quick and then we'll do a quick don't plot summary this movie like how's like all over the place. So I'll try and be as simple as possible but From a podcast structure. We'll do a quick chat about the movie compare some of our initial notes We'll go into our superlatives And then last we'll rank ⁓ if this, know, true classic is a classic of Hollywood And then from a plot summary, this follows basically, it's hard to say, because I say there's like four leads in this movie, but one of them basically checks out after the first act. So you have Johnny Rico, ⁓ his love interest, Carmen. ⁓ And then there's Diz, his third wheel. speaker-1: Yeah. Yeah. speaker-0: and the one who's been friend zone and then Carl. So four high school friends. They all decide to join in this unique universe. This kind of more fascist society that they live in. You have to join the military for citizenship. They basically all decide to join the military. They all have different motivations. Carl's super smart and goes into intelligence. ⁓ speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: Johnny wants to follow Carmen, who's probably out of everyone the most motivated to become a pilot. really, ⁓ Johnny's following a girl and then Diz follows Johnny. They all go their own separate ways while they're in training. Their hometown is attacked by a bug alien race. So they go to war. And then while they're in war, their paths cross several times and they kind of all get split to the wind. ⁓ Carmen dumps Johnny. Johnny hooks up with Diz. Carl comes in every once in a while to do some really fucked up shit. And then he pops back out. And then... ⁓ Ultimately all the all three of them or all of them really grow in their leadership roles within the military and the movie kind of culminates in a bug attack where they find I guess like the bugs secret weapon and Diz dies and they all basically promise to be friends at the end And they're fighting alien bugs speaker-1: Yeah, which is what they promised. Yeah, it is a sci-fi love story that coincidentally, so we... speaker-0: Have you ever seen this movie? speaker-1: our backstory into this movie, ⁓ be honest, I don't know how we found this movie in high school, but somehow we came across this movie. ⁓ feel like it was playing on ⁓ one time ⁓ we all watched it. We went and bought the DVD ⁓ I think we probably collectively watched it as our group of friends ⁓ at least 50 times. ⁓ I mean it's... ⁓ speaker-0: I think it's the movie I've seen the second most. Besides like a Christmas movie that I've watched like many times. This is the most I've seen a movie. speaker-1: Yeah. I think we, could probably put our group of friends from high school in a room and we could, we could quote the entire movie from start to end. ⁓ we loved it. It was, I can't wait to talk about this movie because I have not seen it in probably at least 15 years. ⁓ so watching it now, it, this movie is objectively bad. But it felt like coming home. It felt so good to be back. just movie. speaker-0: I don't even... So like, I think in this, in our theme being like, we rewatch classic movies from the past, you know, we expand our cultural horizons. If the first group of movies we done or did are like... Let's grow. This one is for us. Because to call this like a true classic, it's not like an AFI top 100 classic. think it is a cult classic. Yeah, for sure. And there's there's definitely a lot of fans of this movie out there. But man, this is just more you and me. We actually planned to having my brother on this episode. He ended up being sick because this is just like we need a movie for us. Yeah. Yeah, this is nostalgia. speaker-1: Yeah. This is nostalgia. But speaking of, like, because yeah, this is not a classic movie. This does not make any AFI lists or have really any awards, so to speak, I don't think. Maybe some minor awards, but there is quite a bit of talent attached to this movie. So the director, Paul Verhoeven? speaker-0: Yeah, Verhoeven. speaker-1: ⁓ I mean this is the dude he directed Rebel Cop. Total Recall, ⁓ Basic Instinct. I've never seen it. The infamous Showgirls. I mean he's done a lot. ⁓ He's done a lot and ⁓ I didn't know this but speaker-0: heard it. Yeah. speaker-1: Apparently, ⁓ Johnny Rico, Mark Wahlberg and Matt Damon auditioned the role, but ⁓ Paul distinctively wanted Casper Van Dien. And the reason why, so yes, this is a... No. Apparently, he... speaker-0: Price or what? speaker-1: He wanted it to... So this whole thing, I mean we'll dive into the backstory about this, but if you are not familiar with this movie, it follows what critics said at the time, a ⁓ pro-fascist ⁓ imitation. It's all satire, right? It's not meant to be taken seriously. speaker-0: It's almost like hard to say like what age the worst what age the best or like critic like Under It's almost really hard to Kind of criticize the world that they're in because it's a satirical world like it's meant to be over-the-top and fake. Yeah speaker-1: So like the director Paul, he wanted, I forget what was her name, but one of the infamous lady ⁓ director back during like the World War II German Nazi era, I forget her name. speaker-0: Yeah, do have the propaganda films. speaker-1: Yes, she made all the propaganda films for the Nazi effort, But she chose distinctively Aryan-looking actors to display the German image of whatever. Paul wanted these kids to have those perfect features, and that's why he chose Caspar Van Dien, because he thought Caspar was closer to that than Mark Wahlberg or Matt Damon. speaker-0: Yeah, I mean, no offense to Casper Van Deen, but he does look like a straight up... speaker-1: He looks perfect. He looks like just the cutout of a perfect Caucasian white, like a guy. Yeah, exactly. But he did, to your point, like you said earlier, he had a very specific ⁓ vision for this movie. I think he pulled it. speaker-0: Like a Hitler Youth. I don't know. Yeah, it's interesting bringing that up because obviously as we've gotten older and we've learned more about the movie I will say like the whole like Fascist satire because again, I don't think this movie is pro-fascist. I think if anything, it's kind of anti it right shows like what not questioning things not thinking for yourself, you know, just going along with it you know eating the propaganda like ⁓ All that stuff like I don't think this is a fascist movie all of that totally escaped me at 14 years old The first time I saw this movie I was eight. So this movie came out in 97. I was I Think I saw it a year or two later. So I was eight years old ⁓ speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: Obviously not for eight year olds. My parents had no idea. Those are blockbuster days. They go and they're like, oh, fun space movie. They're thinking Star Wars. My brother and I watched this. We were like, holy shit. Yeah. This is incredible. A whole new world was open to me. And it's not for like a critical eye for film. Let's just say that. Right. Yeah. But it was a wild movie. speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: But all of that, I think, escaped me for a very long time. And it's interesting coming back as like an adult and rewatching it and keeping that more critical eye out for it. I think the way it does the commentary of it is very subtle because I feel like in a lot of other movies. this would have been the main message they're pushing in the movie. Where the narrative, like you heard in the two quick summaries, the joke summaries that I gave, they're really not about anything about the world that they live in, other than that they're in the military at war. but the stuff around them is the satire. The characters, what they're going through has nothing to do with the satire almost. Maybe Carl, except for Carl, would say. Carl is like feeding, his character has purpose for the satire. But Johnny really doesn't, maybe some of the stuff that happens to them does, but like the characters themselves don't. And I think it's a really interesting way of trying to come. speaker-1: Yes. speaker-0: Especially Paul ⁓ Verhoeven, he comes from a very specific ⁓ cultural experience. And so I think the way he this movie ⁓ and ⁓ the commentary that put he didn't put it like. speaker-1: you know. speaker-0: It's in your face, but it's not in your face in the movie. I think that's part of the critics interpretation or the audiences interpretation of it back in the day when it first came out. It was almost too subtle in a non-subtle way. know what I mean? speaker-1: Yeah, no, absolutely the whole movie I think it like you were talking about watching it as an adult and not a 14 15 year old boy because back when we watched it when we were younger Especially in high school. I think we loved the action scenes. Yeah You know like there's the whole movie what drives a large part of it is this level of camaraderie between Johnny and his squad mates and That the rough yeah, Radchak's rough. That's speaker-0: Next. Next. speaker-1: what I think we latched on to ⁓ but watching it as an adult kind of with like a different set of eyes it is a really bizarre movie because you have on the one hand it comes at a time it's in the late 90s where it's almost emulating really bad 90s like high school TV dramas Yeah, like exactly. Yeah, like you have exceptionally bad writing, over the top drama acting, but then it mixes in these really intense battle scenes that border almost pure horror. speaker-0: We're in a skin horror. speaker-1: Yeah, it's exceptionally bloody. People are getting ripped in half. But it all comes together in just this really goofy movie that is one of my favorite movies of all time. Maybe it's just pure nostalgia. ⁓ But I do feel like for what it is, it is such an interesting piece. Yeah, it really is. mean, I think from start to finish, speaker-0: Me too. It's insanely rewatchable. speaker-1: There's so much that you can latch on to. If you want to say that there's a love story, I don't know, maybe you can. But there is camaraderie, there is the level of like, you know, making fun of like fascism stuff and all the things. There's action, there's adventure. I mean, there's so many things that you can... speaker-0: Yeah, I wouldn't even say there's a love story to your point. I would say it's more of a commentary on like high school infatuation. It's an infatuation story because anyone who loves anyone is not loved back by any of the characters. Like Johnny loves Cameron. Cameron doesn't love him back. Diz loves Johnny. Johnny doesn't love her back. speaker-1: Yeah. Yeah. speaker-0: ⁓ zander and cameron like zander's kind of you know he's interested in her he's playing hard but like you know she's going along you know she's going along with it but i like it's not a love story you know you know so it's it's it's yeah it's it's not a love story it's an infatuation it's like it's high school acting it's 90210 it's speaker-1: No. speaker-0: Now two of just have a lot of reference to me because I was a little too young for that show, like, you know, other ones of the time. speaker-1: Yeah, no exactly. mean, Dawson's Creek. speaker-0: Dawson's Creek is probably even better. speaker-1: Yeah, that's what like I kept thinking about the entire time watching it and maybe just watching it as with high school eyes As a you know teenage boy that was like really into halo and playing shoot them up video games You just don't really latch on to that type of stuff. You don't catch it I feel like it just kind of went over our heads maybe a little bit but watching it now I was like this is really interesting speaker-0: I don't know if we'll get to it in best scenes. I don't think any of them are my best scenes, but I think the propaganda moments in the film where they do like the, you know, the cutaways to the, would you like to know more? Like, I think those are so interesting. speaker-1: Yeah, the little cutaways. They are really funny. actually had them under age the best. Yeah. Because they are really funny. speaker-0: We'll save we'll save our discussion for them, but I like I think they're it's it's a funny movie I Think if you at least my interpretation and from what I understand Paul Verhoeven's vision for the film. It's a great satire ⁓ This is not a world you want to live in it's not a world you we want to strive to as shiny as it looks It's dark as shit underneath. And I think it's such an interesting film for that because it's just not on the surface. It's so in your face. And yet the message is not on the surface of the film in a lot of ways. speaker-1: No. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Let's dive into it. Let's get to our superlatives because I feel like there is like the specifics I'm very excited to talk about. speaker-0: Is there anything else in the movie I think that we won't get to? I love the music. I think the score is great. Try to think if there's anything else that we won't get to in our topics. Because I probably have more to say about the actual movie itself and the acting than anything else. But I did want to mention the music because I do think it's very fun. It's, you know. speaker-1: Mm-hmm. speaker-0: Gets intense. ⁓ you know another thing and we'll probably get to it, but I think the miniatures age really well. speaker-1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. A lot of like the space sequences with the ships. I, yeah, I think actually under, well, a lot of the ⁓ visual effects, ⁓ the bugs, I think for 1997? Yeah. Yeah, 1997. speaker-0: All CGI? Seven CGI? speaker-1: I can't remember what Wikipedia said the budget was, but I do remember seeing something on here that a large portion of the budget went towards CGI, visual effects, ⁓ which I think it really pays off. That in and of itself, and it did get an Academy Award nomination for... ⁓ Acting? Yeah. For best visual effects. And I think it actually earned it. speaker-0: You Oh no, it does earn it, 100%. I mean, it's on par with, this is two years before Phantom Menace, and I think it's on par in a lot of ways with that movie and so, you know. speaker-1: It is 2026 right now. I have this movie on DVD from back then in high school. think I read that the special edition DVD that I bought came out in 2002. So it's not a Blu-ray. It looks terrible. And even then, I was still kind of shocked at how good a lot of the bugs and stuff look. There's definitely some stuff that doesn't look super great. speaker-0: Okay. think being, ⁓ like not having muscles really works to like the bugs advantage. Like not having that skin flexing and things like that, but being more rigid. And I think it's like Toy Story worked for the first animated movie because the toys don't have, know, flexing and muscles right there, just very mechanical. The bugs are almost mechanical. I think it really helps it age well. speaker-1: they have like a shell that it can look plasticky. Yeah, it does really well. speaker-0: Yeah, they definitely leaned into the capabilities of CGI instead of trying to go too hard, you know, with it. All right. Yeah, let's get into the categories then. ⁓ So our categories are going to be best seen, best character, worst character or weakest link of the film, age the best, age the worst. What the fuck are they talking about? speaker-1: for sure. speaker-0: Should there be a sequel? Man, I got a lot of opinions on all the sequels, because I've seen them all. So I got some sequels. ⁓ man, this movie. OK. And then last, we'll do our hot takes and nitpicks. So let's start out with best scene. Do you want to open it up with a scene that you have in mind? speaker-1: Yeah, well I've got several but I mean, funny enough, I did like a combo of the opening high school scenes. If you mash them all together because one, speaker-0: same. I picked one of them just because I was like the highlight of it. speaker-1: But yeah, this is like from when they're in class where ⁓ you know, Johnny sends Carmen a gif on fucking Microsoft Paint or whatever it was. speaker-0: It's so funny how that is age-bad. Because it's like this high technology and that's what they're sending. speaker-1: But like you have that scene, the football scene, the, I'm assuming it's the graduation dance. I don't know if they explicitly say that like they're graduating, but I think that's what's implied. ⁓ But you have like that collection of scenes opening up the movie. Yeah, so like you get a sense of this futuristic world, right, of what it is, and you get a taste of their society that they live in. I thought it was hilarious, just some of the things, but I, speaker-0: Now the bug dissection. speaker-1: all of those scenes combined because you kind of get glimpses into everything right into the characters into who Johnny is who Carmen is how bad the writing is And their motivations for doing everything right like you said Johnny's joining up to for a girl, but Carmen and Carl have Purpose yeah, they have bigger plans for themselves They have like career paths that they want to chase you get to meet Xander for the first time. It's just such a butthole ⁓ speaker-0: He's just not interested in our main characters except for Carmen. I don't blame him for what he does. Go to school with With their friends. speaker-1: I get it. ⁓ But those funny enough, I don't if you've ever seen Say By The Bell, the dude that plays Xander, he also is in Say By The Bell, I think for just like an episode, plays the literally the exact same character. He plays like the speaker-0: I've ever seen him in anyways. Yeah speaker-1: Say, yeah, just like the, he's the villain. He's the other guy who's trying to steal, and this movie successfully steal Rico's girl. But yeah, that opening sequence, it's so goofy. It's so 90s. And it's just, it's fun. I love it. speaker-0: It's so hard now. So one thing, this is the, I swear to we've seen this movie 50 times. And this is the first time I've really noticed this. And again, maybe because I'm older now and I'm smarter or less like, you know, I don't know. You know, sneaking outside and smoking cigars with you. The... ⁓ All the teachers or all the authority figures they meet so like the guy who's introducing them Or not introducing them walking them into the military who's missing the legs and arms, right? He went through mobile infantry the rat jack is missing an arm went through infantry The professor during the dissection thing same is blinded like physically blinded not But not through birth but physically blinded. So all of the teachers all their authority figures speaker-1: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. speaker-0: are pre-military and they're all horrifically injured from their experience in the military and so they're being inundated with the propaganda by the authority figures in their lives except for like Johnny's parents but the actual like hired people who speaker-1: Yeah. Yeah. speaker-0: interact with children I think this like as you can talk about the writing the writing the dialogue I think is the weakest one of the weaker points of this movie, but the I kind of like you don't notice it until you you know watch it for The zillionth time and maybe even with a little bit older eyes. Yeah, wow, that's really smart that they're telling us this world is forcing these kids down this path and Brainwashing them without telling you that they're brainwashing them. Yeah, that was really smart Yeah, that's the first time I noticed it. was like, because currently Mrs. Oh, man, the teachers blind. I'm like, wait a second. All these people are in the military, brainwashing these kids at this school. Maybe it's not as subtle as I thought it was. think it is. I'm like. speaker-1: That's Johnny's dad calls it out when Johnny says that he wants to go back. Yeah. And he says there should be laws against using schools as a recruiting zone or something like that. Johnny tries to defend Radchak. No, Radchak doesn't do that. Yeah, exactly. And yeah, I mean, he challenges him during Radchak's class. He challenges Johnny about citizenship. And he's like, do you do you believe it? Do you understand it? And Johnny's like, don't know, because like he he doesn't know. He's a high school boy. speaker-0: Ratchett. Sooner or later. speaker-1: 28 year old high school man. He doesn't have a fully evolved brain to understand what it is. no, yeah, it's a great call out. mean, it's but that that level of like subtle satire in it. I mean, all of it is just really. Yeah, yeah, it's really. It's so good. It's so. speaker-0: a bus scene as so stupid, so crazy and God every one of those lines in that movie we used to quote all the time and I love it. speaker-1: think ⁓ I could have gotten just throw me the ball dis ⁓ in like college. I probably would have done it. Just throw me the ball dis ⁓ yeah, it's ⁓ that whole opening sequence in the beginning It gives you this little taste of their home and their lifestyle and ⁓ what they're fighting for because the rest of the movie truly is it's Them fighting the bugs. Yeah, so it's also completely different than what you get for 90 % of the movie ⁓ So it's ⁓ speaker-0: It sets the stakes for them. It sets up a lot of things. mean, it sets up ⁓ the football play, the three, six, flip, flip pole or whatever. Yeah, flip six, three, hold. It sets up to use it later. Training. You know, it sets up Buenos Aires to get, you know, annihilated. like it really does a good, you know, it puts context that, OK, Johnny's charismatic. speaker-1: Flip 6 3-hole. speaker-0: But stupid. Carl's super smart and friendly, which makes his kind of transition to where he's at even more shocking. It sets up Carmen. She's there. It's fine. My wife and I had very different opinions on Carmen and Diz. We'll get into it we get the characters. Yeah, I'll tell you what, how Carly felt about all of them and how I felt about all. ⁓ But yeah, so yeah, football scene, opening scene. I do. I love their whole time in Buenos Aires. speaker-1: What's your shit? Good. Yeah, it's really fun. ⁓ My next scene is the invasion of Klindathu. Okay. Because it's so they in like the full scene, not like the very beginning, because they open up the movie with the reporter on Klindathu who dies and then you see Johnny. Yeah, yeah, right. but like the full scene, so like they are in these. speaker-0: What was your next scene? I didn't think you meant the first 30 seconds. I'll sleep or... speaker-1: Yeah, yeah, they're so amped up to fight right? This is their very first battle after training and you know their home Just got obliterated so they are ready ⁓ They bolt out of their drop pods they nuke two of the battery bugs. It's like electric speaker-0: We are such nerds, we like know all the names of these. speaker-1: Yeah, right. So I mean they're they are on cloud nine, right? And then they see some of like the regular like the I guess I don't know what you call them Just the regular army grunt bugs the ones that are very Prevalent throughout the entire movie and they just start seeing people get literally shredded like torn apart ripped in half limbs go flying It's super gory. It's borderline horrific and it starts getting a little bit serious and they have to start running away. Rico's entire crew dies except for ⁓ Diz and Ace. So if you want to talk about raising the stakes, the entire front end of the movie where he goes through basic training, they do. speaker-0: Because they spend a lot of time like earning all those like defining all those characters I'll get to one of my best scenes, but they spend a lot of time defining all those characters just to have them start freaking out and crying and like The what's the one that wants babies she's like what do we do? do? What do we do? She gets killed speaker-1: You like you know ace ace freezes and Johnny has to take over command I mean the whole thing yeah it goes from like this corny cheesy action movie like we speaker-0: Music's swelling as they're coming in to land. And then it gets quiet when they get on the plane. And then it just hurts. speaker-1: Yeah. It goes from like, ⁓ we're having fun to this is not fun. And I mean, I feel like that scene, the battle of Kundathu is, it perfectly encapsulates everything that is so much like fun about this movie. But yeah, because you go through the roller coaster of emotions ⁓ in that one scene. speaker-0: That's a great. I had the Klendathu on here too. As the landing or the yeah the landing on Klendathu. speaker-1: Hmm. What else did you have? speaker-0: So I have like the training, the mobile infancy training specifically. I love the introduction of Zim. So when they're on, the one I think I like the most, because all of his like kind of drill sergeant stuff I love, but when Ace is like, why do we need to have a knife during a nuke fight? And then he throws the knife in Ace's hand and he's like, you cannot launch a nuke if his hand is disabled. speaker-1: disable the enemy's hands. speaker-0: So I love like Zim and then ⁓ not to be like super pervy, but I do love the shower scene because they go through all the characters. I think even though it's like in Game of Thrones when they had all their sex position, it's like they make the exposition of all the characters backstory interesting by putting them in a shower altogether co-ed style. It's like very... you know, unnecessary nudity, all that kind of stuff. But it makes the scene very memorable and they like, they do cover a lot of ground in character development in that scene. I can quote like the whole thing because I think it's so funny. speaker-1: Yeah. Yeah, well I mean, yeah, you learn why everybody is there. And then as high school boys, we're like, oh yeah, you can see boobs. This is great. Which is, yeah, it's also, it's really funny. I mean, I don't know how the military works, but it's funny that it's like a coed shower. it does not work like that. I mean, hey, I don't know. Maybe some branches it does, but. speaker-0: I think that's also a commentary on the fascist society that they live in. speaker-1: But it is, the shower scene it does, because it builds up these characters so that you get to know them, which I think makes the whole Klendathu scene even more impactful because they all die. speaker-0: Yeah, it's like 15 minutes later, the klandathu scene. Yeah, like they have that then the farmer guy gets shot in the head and then they walk down Washout Lane and then Johnny gets whipped and then speaker-1: Yeah. they're in Klandathe. Yeah. Buenos Aires gets nuked and then they go to Klandathe. speaker-0: You're right. You talked about the khaledath scene. I was like actually just going over that I'm like it is it is peppered in this like very silly movie and all of a sudden some guy's head gets blown off you're like oh my god, yeah, and then And then like the whip scene where Johnny's getting punished and you're like, oh, this is speaker-1: is really intense. There's a lot of emphasis on... I guess things happening in front of the public view. So like even Johnny in the beginning when he takes, ⁓ they, they go and check their test scores at the. Yeah. And their test scores are on a screen where everybody can see. And yeah, he gets embarrassed by Carl. Carl puts his score up and everybody laughs at him, but then he gets whipped in front of everybody. There's yeah, it's there's in this fascist society, there is emphasis on things are going to be done in view of everybody else. Nothing. speaker-0: Yeah, yeah. speaker-1: and close doors. speaker-0: Well, nothing behind closed doors when it comes to getting the people to do what you want them to do. I think there's a lot said and not said about like the sky marshal of these movies and like how, and some of the sequels get into it even more, which I think the sequels completely lose the point of this movie. ⁓ anyways, yeah. So I have the shower scene, I think. It's one of my favorite scenes. speaker-1: you know. Shower scene because of boobs for Zach. speaker-0: Hey, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, There's also, you know, thoughtful commentary. one, I think this one, the dialogue's probably strongest in the. So, yeah, suck it. And then the other scene I had when they're on. I forget the name of the planet that they're on, but when the Roughnecks are going after Diz and Johnny Hookup, they land on that moon. speaker-1: Yeah, no, I would agree. planet P. ⁓ speaker-0: Yeah, Planet B. And ⁓ they're on their way to go find that general's base. And they find the general is like freaking out. like when they're in there, kind of like doing investigation, Rack Jack is like sacrificing one of his guys to make sure there's not a bug up there. So yeah, like it just shows how callous he is. ⁓ And, know. speaker-1: literally my next best scene on mine. You know? speaker-0: he dies, Diz dies, like so much happens in that scene. It's really in the movie. And again, I think probably one of the scenes where the dialogue is the strongest in the movie too. speaker-1: Yeah. I think ⁓ speaking of dialogue, I feel like if you could maybe show everybody one scene from this movie, I would pick this scene because when they go on P and they find the outpost, it's kind of ominous before the battle breaks out. It's almost like a detective game. They're trying to figure out what happened. There's dead bodies everywhere, dead bugs. They're what happened here? ⁓ And you're kind of on edge when they're just like nothing's happening, but you know it's coming. but they go and they find the body with a hole in his head. And Radchak turns and says in the most serious voice, he says, they sucked his. And I don't know if that is the worst. Actually, no, I think Diz takes the cake for worst dialogue in the movie, but that might be second worst. Yeah, so it was delivered perfect. speaker-0: He sticks his fingers in his head. That Michael Ironsides. Yeah, right. But it is cheesy. speaker-1: It's so bad, but that I feel like again it encapsulates everything I love about this movie. It's so serious and there's so much death and he says they sucked his brains out. It's perfect. That's all gross. It's stupid. no yeah, I love the pee scenes because that's where it starts, I don't know, the movie starts really getting its leg. speaker-0: It actually has a plot and purpose to the military action at that point. Like it's really to me this movie is like three movies. It's the Buenos Aires and training movie and then when they're on Klindat there and it's like culminating it becomes like a different movie at that point because everyone's dead everyone has died and ⁓ they're speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: being brought into the Roughnecks, Johnny and Asar, and it really like pivots into like a different movie. Like him and Cameron at that point are almost like it's over. He sees her and he's like, whatever, you know? And then, or she thinks he's dead too at that point. But it's like a completely different movie. And then they get to pee and they figure out about the brain bug. And like that brain bug plot is only in the third act. It's like really its own separate mission movie too. So it's like really three to me, like three movies or, That's why like giving a plot synopsis to this movie is kind of challenging. Yeah, because it's it's not like a single tight narrative. It's much more of an epic. Yeah speaker-1: Yeah, I completely agree. ⁓ speaker-0: Any other contenders for scenes? think we hit all mine. I have other ones I'd love to talk about. speaker-1: Yeah, no. The only other one that I have, and it's just because it's like a personal, like, point of pride, but... when Rico takes over the Roughnecks and he's addressing the new reinforcements and Watkins says, Rico's Roughnecks. That was, to this day, it still gives me little goose bump. Because it's so good. But yeah, I think for me, it's either Klindafu or the Outpost's battle on P, I think, are my top contenders for best scene. speaker-0: No, dude, it's all about the boobs. ⁓ No. I think the first, yeah, the first battle on P with Rat Jack leading them, finding the general, you know, discovering that they've been, you know, I don't know, not tricked, but ⁓ a like been set up to come down there so that the aliens can, so the bugs can attack and all that stuff. ⁓ my favorite scene too. ⁓ speaker-1: You will go shower scene. Mark it down in the book. Zach is showers. Yeah, I agree. speaker-0: Alright, let's start talking about some characters. We'll go best character first. speaker-1: You go first. You already know I'm on it. ⁓ speaker-0: acting in this movie is its weakest point, which is really interesting because I love this movie and honestly it adds to it that they're not the strongest actors because it is a satire and it feels like a satire from that regard. So all that preamble is to say You know, I'm thinking about this. And we're just gushing how much we love this movie. And we dogged on American in Paris. speaker-1: You Again, this is our unqualified take. speaker-0: Yeah, okay. American parents fun. Love this movie. Totally get why this is not for everyone. It was not for my wife. She watched it the second time. She's like it was better than I remember it being but she's like God this movie is violent and I'm like, yeah, it's part of the purpose point of it. So anyways, ⁓ but yeah, so characters I can't necessarily objectively interpret the acting because it's not strong, but God, I don't care. So I'm going to go with like my heart and my gut. I'm going to put up there first one. I think this it. It's going to be the first one I put up there. speaker-1: I love Zim. think Zim's very fair. Zim challenges them from the get-go. He has Johnny's back when Johnny wants to come back. speaker-0: Like you can tell him he that the recruits mean something to him. He's a huge dick to them But it's like in service of like their best interests. speaker-1: But even more, I think, very respectable towards Zim's character. He wants to go. I can't remember what the commanding officer's name is at the boot camp, whatever. speaker-0: Yeah, Hank from Breaking Bad. speaker-1: Yeah, but he tells Zim, you're not going to fight unless you get demoted. And then you find out later that Zim... He chose that path. Yeah, he went all the way down to private just so he could go fight and he captured the brain bug. Yeah, Zim is a clear choice for best character. Even though, I mean, I wish he had more time, but it's fine. What he had was great. speaker-0: I think that's why it works. He's not the best character, but I do think he's like he's probably first contender outside of the main cast ⁓ And then second contender outside the main cast he was a huge part I did Fucking love ace Ace is great. He's the comic relief. He's completely insane. You clearly know that he is related to Gary Busey. Yeah speaker-1: I'm the man speaker-0: My wife was like is that Carrie Busey? I'm like that's actually a son Yeah, but ace is great. I wish he would have done more after this movie He's the best actor of the main he's kind of the kid speaker-1: Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, he's really good and I love that his character was not unnecessarily killed off because you're right He adds like levity to the scenes because he he's just goofy But yeah, he's like Johnny's best friend they they bro down ⁓ Throughout the entirety of the movie, but especially towards the end where Johnny is Promoted up into leadership positions and then ace is his right-hand man But ace is awesome. I love ace speaker-0: He's so such a good Alright, so those are my first two. speaker-1: ⁓ I mean I'm obligated to say Rico. I mean it is what it is. So Johnny Rico has a special place in my heart. I think he is written to be almost arguably like the best action character ever made, right? He's objectively handsome. He has these girls that are fawning over him. ⁓ speaker-0: I was like, we can go back to the main gas. speaker-1: He's incredibly badass when it comes to fighting, even though he does not join the military to go off and fight on his own accord. He joins it because of Carmen, but he turns out to be this really badass soldier. ⁓ I made my very first Xbox Live Gamer Tag. I named it after Johnny Rico. That's how much of a place he had in my heart. speaker-0: General Rico 34 speaker-1: General Rico and I did it I did that at the time there were no sequel movies and I did it under the under the speaker-0: assumption. speaker-1: Assumption that Johnny... Yeah, he would get promoted in the future, so I wanted to be General Rico 34. I no longer have that gamertag, so it's up there for anybody who wants it. I mean, he had such a huge impact on a young guy. ⁓ He's always my favorite. But I do, I think... I also really like Diz in the movie even though Diz has a lot of faults. Diz is always there for Johnny. She always has Johnny's back and I feel like she has arguably like the worst death scene I think I've ever seen and we'll talk about it later. But I think outside of speaker-0: Like from an acting perspective or just like the horrificness of it. speaker-1: all of it combined in just one terrible ball. I mean, it's really bad, but I really enjoyed this throughout the entirety of the movie. speaker-0: I agree. So Johnny, I think he's great. think he's probably the second weakest actor in the movie, in my opinion. speaker-1: terrible. which I don't think Casper did ⁓ Sleepy Hollow. that's the only two movies I've ever seen him in besides future Starship Troopers movie. speaker-0: Yeah that and I think I've seen him on like a red box cover for some like, you know, Blum Blumhouse movie or something like that But or what's that one that I'm asylum movies. That's the ones that are really bad like horror movies Anyways, yeah, I think he's kind of But but I do I love again, yeah, I'm with you I love Johnny. I think he's great. I love Diz. I think this is great I like when Carl is in the movie. He's a lot of fun speaker-1: home. Tastes pretty terrible. He's really good. You're right. Yeah. speaker-0: Actually, he's probably the best actor in the movie, but rightfully so. Neil Patrick Harris has had a career proving that. speaker-1: Yeah, I mean you said it at the beginning. It's like it's a there's four main characters But Carl he's in the beginning and then you don't see him really at all until sort of the end he has one scene where he does like a propaganda infomercial Yeah, but that's it I wish yeah, I wish I wish there was more Carl speaker-0: And then he comes at the end. There are two times at the end of movie. Yeah, well, you know, and like fun, Carl deserves to be in the movie a lot. Dower, insane psychopath Carl. Yeah, we're wearing a full on SS uniform. Yeah, no, you don't want to spend a lot of time with that dude. No, he's no good at that point. speaker-1: wearing a trench coat. He's really intense. He's so ingrained. He's in too deep. speaker-0: I'm glad the Carl we got you know for the most movie is the one that you want yeah, and then you know Yeah, you can you see him turn you like God this guy's story must have been dark ⁓ Because he's like just it's interesting because he's the only character speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: everyone else is being farmed through the propaganda machine, he becomes the propaganda machine. And it's very interesting and by far the darkest, most benevolent one of them all. And he's the one who's driving the propaganda and the terrible decisions and the sacraf- you know, it's like, again, smart commentary. speaker-1: Yeah. Games in theory. speaker-0: ⁓ Any other best characters? speaker-1: No, I really do like yours though. I really enjoy ⁓ Zim and ⁓ Ace. He's great. I mean, there's nothing wrong with him. He's really intense, but it's funny because he, ⁓ you know, he's Johnny's teacher. They have like that awkward scene where when Johnny joins up with his group, which could not have been more than what, maybe a few months later? speaker-0: What about Ratchack? The timeline of this movie is very interesting. I really don't know how much time has passed. It feels like everything takes place within like six months. Yeah, but I don't really know how much time has passed. speaker-1: So I I think if there's any length of time that had to have happened in this movie it would have happened during the boot camp scenes or their time at boot camp because when they go to Klondathio it's the one battle Johnny's crew gets wiped and then he joins Radchek's team Yeah, so if but all that to say he's Johnny's teacher We don't know how much time has passed, but even let's be generous and say like a year has passed ⁓ speaker-0: Yeah, and then they have two battles. Yeah, there's that time to it that is healing and they're kind of regrouping. But I don't know. ⁓ speaker-1: When Johnny and Diz and Ace join up into Radchak's roughnecks, he's like two feet away from Radchak. He looks at him and Radchak looks at him. He points, he hits him. He points with his finger in his chest and he doesn't recognize him. This is very, I don't know, it's weird. It feels like a continuity error or something. speaker-0: Yeah, or maybe he's just like, yeah, I know you are gonna give a shit. speaker-1: But like he then they have that moment later on where Johnny talks to him and he's like, ⁓ Rico and like it comes back to him He recognizes him he realizes Tim. But anyway, I'll say Radchak's character is really good in the beginning of the movie He's very I don't say docile. He's just he's like a teacher, right? He's not intense. He's not scary He's not anything but then when he gets when Johnny becomes part of his squad in the military, he's tough. He's hard right? I only have one ask and you don't run or I'll kill you myself. And he's really intense. But he does take Johnny under his wing. Definitely. You want to talk about preferential treatment. He gives Johnny preferential treatment for sure. As soon as he realizes it's Johnny Rico, he's like, oh dude, you're my number two. Come on. And he promotes him like two or three times and he's like, okay, you want to be a lieutenant? Come on, you'd be a lieutenant. Yeah, he's fine. speaker-0: Take it, you know? Everyone's gonna find that person that helps fast track them, you know? speaker-1: Yeah, exactly. You gotta climb that ladder one way the other. speaker-0: ⁓ What about the narrator of the propaganda videos? That's a character. Yeah. Yeah. He does a really good job at it, I thought. speaker-1: He is really good at it. I love the, yeah, he is really good. speaker-0: We'll get to the propaganda things, but thought the narration was really very well done. speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: What about the... ⁓ Now we'll get to the next character. Okay, so now let's be real. is the best character, I think, for pure nostalgia purposes for us. I think probably Ace is the best character, in my opinion. Acting in all the whole package, but I love Johnny. speaker-1: . Now. speaker-0: Any final verdict for you? Okay. All right. Johnny, is. Winner. speaker-1: No, I it's Oh boy. Winner by default. Because he's the main character. speaker-0: Well, it's just I can't look at this thing objectively sometimes. Age is the worst, or not age is worst, sorry, worst character. speaker-1: done. I fucking hate Xander, speaker-0: What about the guy in the talk show who's like, only dumb person. Frankly, I find the sense of the thinking bug offensive, you know, whatever. What about that guy? speaker-1: There's a lot of just like goofy characters, and there's ⁓ the other guy who thinks if you think you're psychic maybe you are he's also like really Because he reminds me of I never watched always sunny but ⁓ Rob his character when he like slicks his hair back But yeah the talk show bug guy is pretty bad ⁓ speaker-0: Yeah. Familiar, too. Okay, yeah. brought back. speaker-1: Xander just he's just the butthole I will give it that actor plays a really good like you love to hate him ⁓ But he also he doesn't really have any redeeming Scenes to him like he truly is kind of a butthole from start to finish ⁓ But I outside of him, I don't know I think you probably Yeah, I was gonna say you could throw Carmen out there she dumped Johnny over DVD ⁓ speaker-0: Do you throw a Carmen? So Denise Richards is super interesting because I really know her from Four Things and it was like Hollywood had like picked her out of the hat to be like you're gonna be a star. think she... Do you remember it was Wild Things before this? It's the one with Nev Campbell and Matt Dylan. Let's Wild Things. speaker-1: I don't know, I've never seen it. think this... speaker-0: 98 so it comes right out right after this so she gets picked to in Starship Troopers ⁓ Gets cast in wild things where she's like a sex symbol, and I think Hollywood was like alright Big blockbuster star sex symbol woman, let's go put her in a Bond movie ⁓ in ⁓ world's not enough. She's Christmas. ⁓ Christmas, Joan Jones or whatever ⁓ Was so panned in that movie. ⁓ not ⁓ supposed to be a nuclear physicist ⁓ Christmas, dr. Christmas or whatever ⁓ speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: And I think after that was like, ⁓ no, we pick wrong, you know? And, you know, was pseudo blacklisted from Hollywood and relegated to Casper Van Deen-esque movies. Both of them after this, right? And ⁓ so she'd like, yeah, this like kind of burning candle. And I don't know if it was ever warranted. I just think she looked very attractive. And it was kind of like what Hollywood thought they wanted at the time. And nothing wrong with Denise Richards. I have no problem with her. she's, my wife loves her on The Real Housewives. I think she's not, but I don't really like those housewife shows, but my wife likes her and. But yeah, it's like she kind of burned really bright coming out for this movie. Got a couple of big roles, think probably her most successful being Wild Things. And then just like kind of tanked after that James Bond movie. And I'm not sure watching this movie if it was ever warranted because she's not a super strong actress. speaker-1: No, she's definitely not. mean, there's, I don't know. It's tough to, because there are, there's a lot of bad acting in Starship Troopers, but you also kind of have to wonder, like, like Michael Ironside saying, it sucked his brains out. Yeah. He delivered it really well. It is a terrible line, right? It's really bad writing. So, you know, where does, I don't know. I don't know if you put the chicken before the egg or vice versa, whatever, you know, like, Because even a good actor can make good on bad writing. speaker-0: I would argue that Xander is one of the better actors. The guy who played Xander, I forget his name. I should look it up. speaker-1: I have it. just... Patrick Muldoon. Yeah. I don't know if I've ever seen him in anything besides this and Saved by the Bell. But he plays the same... He plays the other guy who's bad, who's trying to steal your girlfriend. He always plays that character. But he earns my worst character just purely because he's Johnny. speaker-0: Yeah, he's a he's a butthole in the movie and definitely an antagonist ⁓ Yeah, I think Carmen to me is like the weakest length of all weakest link of all the main characters Mm-hmm, I think Johnny's actually the second even though I really have a good time with him. Yeah But yeah, I'll give it we'll give it to Does hander? Zander with a Z speaker-1: Alexander... Yeah, don't get it wrong. ⁓ okay. Age the Best. Yes. I love Age the Best. ⁓ We already kind of touched on it the bug CGI, think really held up. Yeah But no, want let's talk about the propaganda scenes. Yeah, because so many Yeah, they're really funny ⁓ The one that I really really love the most watching as an adult. I was like, I don't remember this being this funny ⁓ but after Buenos Aires gets hit and they're watching like the recap I guess or whatever and it just shows an explosion speaker-0: And videos. speaker-1: explosion with a death toll number and the death toll number just keeps growing but with an explosion in the background and what a way to deliver horrible mass news or mass death news than that. speaker-0: Skyrocketing. And like you notice like the one commentary on during the scene is like the guy with his dead dog in the background. And he's like the only good bug is a dead bug. It's like immediately the propaganda machine is working at focusing your hate away from them. Like honestly in the movie, I don't even know. Really? Like. Not to be a conspiracy theory guy, but like there's not a 0 % chance that that meteorite was not hurled from a US, or not US, but a Earth. ⁓ Like, it's not like an inside job. speaker-1: Yeah. Yeah, it totally could have been. Because that's what sprung them into battle to invade. speaker-0: To fill this society, like the way that this society feels. speaker-1: Yeah, it absolutely could be. ⁓ What do you call it? False flag? No. Is that it? I mean it's been done throughout history, yes, where you fake it so that your nation can take action. Absolutely, it totally could be. Because they don't understand, I can't remember how they describe that the bugs hurl asteroids into outer space at Earth. speaker-0: conspiracy. their supply of meteorites, that's all they really talk about. speaker-1: Yeah, like they don't elaborate how they do it, but that one scene causes them to invade and- speaker-0: I think that's like maybe some I don't know if a criticism is the right word. But you see where it is. The planets are relative to each other, like opposite sides of the galaxy. And the bugs literally have no demonstrated capability of doing it. The only reason why we know that they're capable of. Shooting asteroids at Earth is because the propaganda videos are like look we can defend against bug asteroids You have no idea if they actually can there's no demonstration that they actually can for all we know It's just they're like all right start putting in propaganda that they can send asteroids And that we can defend against them and then when an asteroid does hit they're like well, obviously it's the bugs look at our videos They've always said that they can throw asteroids at us speaker-1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. The propaganda scenes, I don't know, they range from pure, like, here's how you can join up and support and fight the bugs to talk shows to do you think you're psychic? Like, it's just really funny. ⁓ yeah, live on all channels. Live live. in all channels. Again, like everything is done in public view. But yeah. speaker-0: I feel like, whoa, OK, public execution. speaker-1: Yeah, and it is, it's, I don't know. ⁓ Watching a lot of the stuff that involves kids feels just kind of weird, but also kind of funny. speaker-0: the purpose of it right? to be gross. The kids holding the big gun at of the movie rap the bad and then they're squishing the bugs and the mother is like clapping like a maniac. speaker-1: Yeah. But yeah, so they are involving kids and the kids are indoctrinated into it and yeah But all that to say I know that those scenes directly contributed to like a lot of what movie critics at the time were like ⁓ this is pro-fascist and all the things and like it's so goofy and funny. How can you take this remotely serious? speaker-0: Yeah, it's totally meant to be satire. speaker-1: Like they're so, again, watching a mass death event, like a death toll, click up, skyrocket with an explosion in the background. It's just so funny. I don't know. ⁓ But I really, the propaganda scenes, to me, I always enjoyed them. We used to watch it years and years years ago, but rewatching it now, I really like those scenes because they're so goofy. speaker-0: The one after the Klendatu massacre, it's like dark, you know, it's got the gray background instead of like the preppy one, but the music is the same. It's just slowed down. speaker-1: That's it. ⁓ I love the propaganda scenes. speaker-0: They're great. I have that in Age of the Best 2. I think we talked about, but I have the miniatures too. love, think, it just goes to show to me that you can actually achieve something. You have to be like over the top CGI. Like it can work with miniatures. It can work with practical explosions. The explosion scene where they, speaker-1: Really good. Yeah. speaker-0: on P before they land and they fly over with the two jets and just drop all the bombs. And there's just clearly just real gasoline explosions that are happening. But I'm like, it looks great. It doesn't need any CGI. It some because the planes are CGI. But I mean, it's minimal CGI. speaker-1: It does. Yeah, I mean it holds up. feel like there's... Like I feel like when you go back and you watch CGI from like, you know, 15 years ago, some of it you're like, that didn't really age good. But when you do it in real life, it always looks good. Yeah, I agree. speaker-0: And I think you've used the limitations to your advantage, which I think is why the bugs work so well and the way they're designed. speaker-1: Yeah, I completely agree. The only other thing that I had on H the best, we kind of touched on it, but the camaraderie of Johnny's squads, I guess, because he had multiple. Yeah. They all died at one point. Actually, they all died at both points. Yeah. I mean, there's just something about like that friendship aspect of it where you get to know the first group at boot and you really speaker-0: Even the students have the camaraderie. Like at the school and then yeah, the school, the boot camp, the second group of troopers under a Ratchack. speaker-1: You know, the whole movie, Johnny has friends with him and they just do these quote unquote like super fun missions. There's a lot of death and everything and these characters are not safe. They all die except for Johnny and Ace. They're the only two, I'm not counting Carmen or ⁓ Carl, but Johnny's director. speaker-0: Yeah, I mean like because once even Carmen kind of gets sidelined in the movie once she goes to pilot over to she goes back in and out but very correctly the ⁓ speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: The one thing that made me laugh, speaking of the camaraderie, is they're all like 28 year old, 30 year old high school students, right? So they all look super, I think probably Neil Patrick Harris is the closest to actually being a young high school person, but think even then he's probably still 24. Johnny was 28 when this movie came out. speaker-1: Ten years is younger. speaker-0: But like, you know, he's in the military for most of it. So you can like chalk up like, oh, well, they're going to get older as they go. But I think it's so funny. They're all 28 year old high school students coming out. They look no different. Maybe a couple like makeup scars between the beginning of the movie and when Johnny takes over the Roughnecks. His recruits that they put in there, 13 year old children. They're like, oh, look, they look like kids. I'm like, yeah, because they're little. speaker-1: Yeah, they look like. They are kids. speaker-0: our kids. It's just so funny to make it look like, oh, look, they're so grizzled and old now. And I'm like, it's the same. They just put like, actually high school age appropriate kids in those roles, if not younger. speaker-1: And they look like normal people too. I mean, there are normal looking people throughout this movie, but the main characters are all very attractive people. So it's hard to believe that, yeah, they're just these like military people going into battle and all the things, but yeah, his recruits, they are kids. That's they should be. speaker-0: So the last thing I had on age the best was the uniforms and not because they're good uniforms. They're so cheap. ⁓ movie spent a lot of money on something, but it wasn't those uniforms. But I love Firefly. They reused the prop, these prop uniforms in Firefly for the Central Alliance or whatever it's called in there. was like, ⁓ speaker-1: I didn't know that. speaker-0: paint them purple in it. I'm like... speaker-1: Are you talking about like their, ⁓ like what they wear, like their tactical uniforms? speaker-0: Not yeah the tactical unicorns with the rubber and the help the helmets are so distinctive in this movie and when they show up in Firefly you're like ⁓ speaker-1: Starship Troopers. Starship Troopers. That's really funny. I didn't know that. speaker-0: I just to say the best because I just wanted to mention that Firefly is awesome and they use the Starship Troopers costume. speaker-1: So. speaker-0: Alright, the worst. speaker-1: Hmm first one you touched on it ⁓ But the technology that is ever present throughout the entirety of the movie. I know anytime you make a futuristic movie Yeah Unless I don't know maybe I feel like things you kind of see it sometimes in like Star Wars or But like they're kind of yeah some because back then they didn't have like, you know CGI and all the things and speaker-0: Star Trek is full of it. I love Star Trek. and your imagination is limited. speaker-1: You're limited to what you have at the time, right? But this, felt ⁓ kind of painful at some points, like Johnny's GIF that he draws of Carmen. ⁓ But so much of what they used throughout the movie, it felt distinctly 90s. ⁓ Like for example, when they're in the science class cutting open the bug and they have the safety goggles. My dad had a billion of those from working in like warehouse sales and all the things. like that is not a futuristic pair of goggles. Like they were very present at the time. Yeah. Or like, you know, the technology that they use, like when ⁓ speaker-0: if it ain't broke though, you know. speaker-1: when Carmen dumps Johnny. Like they sent, they sent, yeah, it's like a disc. I think like, you know, they. speaker-0: Yes, send it in a disk. ⁓ They're used to the male guy comes in with the male, you know? speaker-1: Yeah, you know, it's just all of that. Johnny puts in like a it's a DVD. It's a it's a breakup message on a DVD, but that's how they communicate. Yeah. Right. I mean, so much of that technology, it just doesn't. It probably felt super futuristic at the time in 1997. nowadays it's like, this is this feels really old. It doesn't it doesn't translate well. speaker-0: had ⁓ ⁓ music at the dance. Yeah. ⁓ speaker-1: Yeah. It's really bad. speaker-0: I was like, this is not futuristic. This is not only it's like what the 90s thought the future was. It'd be like, ⁓ it's just going to get more 90s. speaker-1: It's like 90s grunge futuristic really bad. Same thing with their outfit there. I remember the performers their dresses looked very speaker-0: Yeah, yeah, that's seen that seems so 90s All right Their combat style their fighting style. Oh, do you have that nitpicks? Okay. Well, we'll save for an epics it is will say for nitpicks speaker-1: It's really bad. speaker-0: Yeah, needs some choreography there. ⁓ The football team. So the football game. I forget what Johnny's school is called, the ⁓ Zander's team, forget the mascot's not important, but the school is the Teslas. They're Tesla. speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: is the high school's name and I'm like, ah, Tesla's just not the same. know, they're thinking Nikola Tesla back in the day. It just has a lot of different meaning. You know, I not have the worst for everyone in this country, but you know. Yeah, it's one line. Again, I actually, this is the first time I'd ever caught it when I watched this movie. It probably stuck out because it was Tesla. But also, I have my closed captions on. So I was able to read it. speaker-1: can catch that. Forget about the subtitles, you nerd. ⁓ My final one under Age the Worst, because I have a lot under nitpicks, but Age the Worst, Diz's death scene. ⁓ I mean, after she gets just speared like ten times by a bug, she looks like hell. speaker-0: But she throw red speaker-1: Yeah, feel like there are so many ways that like they could have done makeup on her they made her look awful Yeah, but she starts off the scene she tells Johnny after they're being like air-vac'd out She says Johnny I'm dying and Johnny says no you're not And she says but it's okay because I got to have you yeah, and then like she just sputters out and she just dies speaker-0: She goes down rough. Even like before she gets stabbed, she after she killed that bug by throwing the grenade in his mouth, she like turns around like basically does like like a like a little fist pump action. I did it. Yeah. speaker-1: Yeah Like I I always remember some bad things about this movie. I guess I just don't remember Diz's death scene being that bad, but it was Who is pretty rough in terms of death scenes, I guess speaker-0: ⁓ So I had the armor, right? Yeah in age the best because it wasn't because it was in Firefly I also have the armor in age the worst because it looks so bad. It is so cheap. Yeah, it just looks cheap speaker-1: It's just a rubber. Yeah, it looks like a rubber mat that they cut out in the shape of a vest It's really bad and the helmets are yeah, I don't know the helmets are goofy, but they're iconic speaker-0: Alright, what's Carmen's last name? It's Diaz, right? Like, is she supposed to be Hispanic? Or is it just because they're in Latin America and they just had Latin American names? speaker-1: I think so, yeah. I think that. Because, mean, Johnny Rico, same thing. speaker-0: Yeah, that's a point. I didn't think about that. am so cannot even see past it. speaker-1: Diz...what's Diz's last name? They all have. ⁓ speaker-0: They all have Latin last names. was like, none of them are Latin. speaker-1: ⁓ no, Des Flores, Carmen Ibanez. speaker-0: Flores. Ibanez, that's right. But still, like... speaker-1: Yeah, Johnny Rico. ⁓ mean, yeah, they, all of the characters that are from Jenkins. But they, yeah, they all have Latin last names. speaker-0: except for Carl, last name is Jack. Okay, alright, I feel better. At first I was like, is she supposed to be? Anyways, alright. What are they talking about? speaker-1: Did you have anything? speaker-0: ⁓ There was, I think it was the space captain, I forget her name, the one who is like... speaker-1: what's above Xander and Carmen? Yeah. Her. speaker-0: Yes, I forget her name, but the captain of the ⁓ she said hump the bunk, I think when they made a mistake or something like that. Yeah. I was like, I mean, know she's means right. But like, I never heard that saying before. And then I think you could chalk up. There's so much like, you know, techno babble, you know, nonsense, gravity wells and. speaker-1: Huh. Yeah. speaker-0: Whatever right, but I mean that's all meant to not be understood right that's all meant to be like in yeah, so no I mean this is 97 movie and It's sci-fi in nature. So if it is too complicated they explained it to you And I don't feel like there's too much Yeah, too much in this that's I think honestly, I think they avoided a lot of modern slang because it is a futuristic world and that would just take you right out of it. Yeah, if they're like, you know, I don't know, they're like do a Bart Simpson reference for the 90s or whatever, right? Cool man. Yeah. ⁓ speaker-1: Yeah, I agree. Yeah, I didn't even have anything down because I feel like the only things I didn't that I would have put down to your point is like Technological jargon that they made up for this movie. Yeah, like for this universe ⁓ It sounds like you've got the sequel part taken care of so don't you take it away? speaker-0: Alright, so have you seen the sequels, speaker-1: Most of them? No. I have seen... I think I saw the animated one that was like 3D... Or... Yeah. That's the only one I think I've seen. speaker-0: So the main theft for So the first one, so we'll go into what we think a SQL should be, but just to recap all four of SQLs. The second one is a direct, well, they're all directed to DVA. ⁓ what a time we lived in. speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: So the first one, no returning characters. like follows a group who get trapped behind enemy lines, basically inside of a building. one of the humans is like possessed by a bug. it's like their enemy is another human. It's basically like an excuse to shoot the movie on a single soundstage because it takes all place inside. It's awful. Terrible movie. Nothing to with it. Completely loses anything that made the first movie charming so it's not even worth talking about. Third movie, Rico returns. Live-action yeah yeah it's called Starship Troopers Marauder. ⁓ I know you and I watched this together because we were pumped when it came out because it was Rico's return. He's the only return speaker-1: Ooh, I don't know. ⁓ wait, maybe we did watch. It's very Marauder. speaker-0: But it completely, and they go into a lot more history with the Sky Marshall. They have like some super bug in it. ⁓ But honestly, it's just like the same. It's the memorable parts from this movie, but completely losing sight of what made the commentary on fascism. speaker-1: Mm-hmm. speaker-0: And it's just clearly not made by as capable of a director as Paul Verhoeven. So it's yeah, it's just more bug killing, more unnecessary nudity. Like I said, in the first one, the shower scene has a purpose. The nudity in the third one has no purpose. they're like, it's a Starship Troopers movie. It's got to be in there. It's got to be horrific and bug deaths. And put in the... the propaganda scenes, like they mean nothing and they're not as charming or as fun. So it's honestly an objectively terrible movie, but it is good to see old Johnny Rico back. The first animated movie, it's called, it's like Hero of Mars, I think. Or is that the second one? speaker-1: I was just looking it up. ⁓ I was looking up Starship Trooper's invasion. But it's yeah, it's like all fully animated. And then there's another. speaker-0: Yeah, that's the first one. And none of the characters are from this movie. And then that one, all three come back. So did Carmen's in it. Carl's in it and Rico is in it. He's actually I think he is a general in it. Trader of Mars, yeah, and it's the best one out of all the sequels, in my opinion. Still, it's directed DVD. It's not like the crazy. I think it's a ⁓ I think it's like a clone. speaker-1: trader of Mars. Why is diss in this? Huh. speaker-0: I can't remember it's been so long since I've it, but it was I remember it being decent speaker-1: Yeah. I mean that was at the time where feel like 3D movies, like animated movies, were really kicking off. Like they made a bunch of Halo stuff off the video games. In that time of when we were in college, but like 2010, 11, 12, I feel like there was a lot of that stuff floating around. speaker-0: But all in all to be said, they made four sequels of this movie, capturing what I think was kind of, I don't know if this movie was straight, straight out of the gate, a huge success. I think it was popular, but like not by no stretch of the imagination when anyone. was like, this is really successful and warranted multiple sequels. But I do think this movie had like lived on through DVD sales, through a second hand market, through this like, you know, kind of cult classic ⁓ hit. And so. able to sustain multiple directed DVD sequels. None of them have any idea what made the first movie so good. ⁓ Exactly. Yeah. And they're just ⁓ like there's people who put their blood, sweat and tears into them. But they're all a big old skipper for me. I think if you love the world and you want to like live in it for a minute, it's fine. speaker-1: They're all just cash grabs. Yeah. I have heard, I mean I don't think this constitutes like sequel stuff, but they have made some video games over the years. I've never played them. Okay. But I think there is one that came out, I think within the last five to ten years that people said actually wasn't half bad. I feel like if you really want a sequel and you want to live in that universe, maybe go play a game or something. But I don't know about these, yeah, these straight to DVD movies. It's really bad. speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: Yeah, I think I do. speaker-0: I think it has to do with it not being like a traditional classic status. so they're like, there's not this, you know, this is untouchable or you can't, you know, if you're going to touch it again, it's got to be meaningful. It's. ⁓ yeah, you know, it's got IP now, you know, is recognized. There's a fan base. We can make some money. speaker-1: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, think, yeah, nail on the head, any kind of like sequel, I feel like it needs to encapsulate what made the first one so memorable, at least to us. And none of these really had it. speaker-0: Honestly, I think the most interesting way to experience this movie again, so this is based on a book. And I would be really curious. The book is by Robert ⁓ Heinlein, Heinlein, Heinlein ⁓ from the 50s. It'd ⁓ be really interesting to read. I think I'd be really interested in reading it because it is also, again, a much more intentional satire on fascism and kind of, you know, Nazism and all that stuff. ⁓ So I think it'd be really interesting to see what a 1950s version of this movie would be. Yeah, so I'd be really, really interested, I think, to read that if we're talking about other ways to experience this film. speaker-1: Yeah. Yeah, you're gonna read it after Dungeon Crawler Crawl? Three. Are you? Yeah. Wow, I didn't know that. speaker-0: I'm on book Actually, I meant to bring yours up. Yeah, I'm on book three, so I'm moving along. Yeah, trying to. Rick, my brother, he's on book seven now. speaker-1: You gotta be ready for May. Parade of Horribles comes out. I am too. I just started seven. God, they're so good. Anyway. Hot takes, pick. speaker-0: So no recommendations on SQL for you. speaker-1: I don't know. mean, guess it's tough. It's tough to think about a sequel when there's already been several made, but I think you would just follow Johnny Rico and Ace and... speaker-0: So remember they were remaking a bunch of Paul Verhoeven movies for a while there in the two. Total Recall, did Robocop. And I was like, ⁓ maybe they're going to start some troopers. I would love to see, would love to see, honestly, I think I don't necessarily want to sequel to this movie, but I think it would be interesting to see a modern. speaker-1: Yeah, they did totally recall. telling. speaker-0: interpretation of it. Like I think it could be remade. You know, I think there's enough in today's society that you could comment on ⁓ even about like American politics. I think it'd be interesting to apply some of the lessons to this movie to a more modern, you know. more modern political commentary. So I think it could be fun. I it could be a fun remake. speaker-1: Yeah. I completely agree. Warner Brothers, if you get bought out, maybe you guys can try to make it. It'll be a good return on investments for your show. speaker-0: ⁓ If Paramount buys them, I have no faith in the Alistons. speaker-1: Yeah, it doesn't create shareholder value speaker-0: They're pretty good friends with the old administration right now. I don't think any they're not making commentary on today's administration at least Not to get too political or do it, you know, give my feelings about anything but ⁓ Anywho, yeah, let's go hot takes nitpicks. I don't have anything the movie's pretty good speaker-1: Yeah, all good button it up, huh? I Have I have three three big ones that we have not really talked about you touched on one for a second speaker-0: Okay. Was it the fact that during the dissection scene, no one's wearing any gloves? speaker-1: None whatsoever. Johnny's pulling out... I was actually eating my dinner during that scene and the funny thing is because I've seen it so many times I was like this great as I was eating. I was like awesome. Oh my god. Yeah okay so for a military like gun movie they are horrible at shooting guns. speaker-0: I was like, uh, gross. No tactics. just walk up, stand up straight. I mean, I guess they're not getting shot at. speaker-1: They literally never aim down the sights, which is crucial to firing a weapon. They shoot from their hips like this. ⁓ When they shoot, they do this. They spray. They move left and right. ⁓ There would, I think at one point, there are four of them. It might have been during the Battle of Kundatthu, but there's four of them trying to take down a single bug. speaker-0: spray tactics at all in this movie. speaker-1: And you sit there and wonder like how on earth. Yeah, right. But it's goofy because it's I don't know. It's the classic like action movie. You don't need to be tactical. speaker-0: ⁓ they're And then all of sudden Denise Richards who's never fired a gun the entire movie is taking out like 30 of them on her way out of the it's like The consistency on how these bugs die What it takes to kill them one it takes in some cases it takes 150 rounds into this bug In other cases, it's like one shot to the knee. Yeah, you know, it's like it's not consistent through the whole movie That's one of my nitpicks. It's just the way you kill the bugs, but also the tactics speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: does this implement? speaker-1: This was a separate nitpick, it ties into this. So Carl's propaganda scene shows how to bring down a bug strategically. if you notice, ⁓ I'm not an expert in this society and their weaponry, but the majority of them use like their long rifle, right? It's a long assault rifle and it has a shotgun built into it. And that scene that Carl does, he uses a shorter version speaker-0: the stamina. speaker-1: which one might assume would be like a submachine gun version of it, which I have a less powerful round. ⁓ Carmen also uses the same weapon at the end. It's a shorter gun. We can make assumptions that it's not as powerful, but regardless, Carl strategically says, shoot off its legs. so you immobilize it and then shoot the brain stem. He takes it out like that in that scene. Clearly that direction did not get passed down because none of them are able to replicate that. It takes four of them to bring down a single bug and they're just doing this. At the outpost battle on planet P, Diz runs out of ammo. speaker-0: Yeah, they're just spraying. speaker-1: and Rico tosses her a clip and says, make it count. I laughed. What do you mean make it count? That's a joke. She's not gonna kill a bug with a single magazine. speaker-0: To that point, that was one of my comments too, I'm like, they are spraying away here, right? There's like, just, there's no economy of ⁓ bullets being used. Like it's all just, you know, they're just spraying away. I'm like, how much ammo is in these? Cause they're physical bullets. like, that big old head of the gun must just be full of ammo because they're firing so many rounds. finally when... speaker-1: Yeah. These things are f- doesn't stop. speaker-0: When Dave's like, I'm out, I'm like, really? I didn't know these guns were... speaker-1: Yeah, but like you said it too. So their tactics and how they move and how they operate is also terrible. Equally as bad. I think during boot camp Breckenridge gets killed, the dude that gets shot in the head. He didn't get shot in head because of bad tactics. he does at one point, I think he runs in front of either Diz or somebody and they're like, clear my line of fire. And he's like, I can't see. But then when they're on Klindatu, I forget the dude's name, the Hispanic man, he runs in front of people and they're like, what are you doing? And he's just like. speaker-0: school Come on, want some? Here's some. And he shoots at like one of them, doesn't kill it, moves on to the next one, then goes back to it. What are you doing? speaker-1: There is no rhyme or reason they just run around it clearly It's just funny because it feels like the director Paul was just like, you know what just take this and just go run go speaker-0: Shoo me. No, there's like consultant on there's no choreography. They're just like actors go from spot a to spot B and start shooting. There's no tactics. It's definitely like the weakest. think one of the weaker parts of this movie. And honestly, it kind of makes it what makes it cheesy and fun. Yeah, it just looks so stupid because it's yeah, they were not consulting a military tactics expert. speaker-1: Yeah, exactly. speaker-0: You watch Saving Private Ryan, it out like a few years before this movie and that movie looks incredible and harrowing in the middle of battle scenes and they're like flopping around, goofing around, run straight up and then again eaten by bugs split in half but... speaker-1: It's just funny because I feel like that whole, that imagery of like shooting an automatic weapon from the hip without aiming, it seems very 80s and 90s action movie like over the top. Where nowadays, you know, we have movies like John Wick where he's doing everything tactical reloads and he's checking the chamber for rounds and all this shit, right? And so we kind of subconsciously know like, yeah, the right way to do this is like you got to down sights, you got to But back then they were just running in and spraying and moving. speaker-0: Schwarzenegger movies, know, Sylvester Stallone movies. Yeah, there's going on there two guns at the hips Yeah, like shooting at 45 degrees away from them. It's yeah I will say probably John Wick might have even conditioned us to like think that's what real tactics look like when it's just more looks cool. Yeah but speaker-1: Yeah, it's like gun fu as they say. speaker-0: ⁓ You name the bug that shoots the big blue rockets. speaker-1: ⁓ the battery, battery bugs. Okay. speaker-0: How does the ships get hit by those things? One flies further in the orbit. These things are coming from a planet. There are that many of them. You're telling me you cannot get out of range? The further you are away, the more spread out those are going to get if they don't fall back to the planet at some point. I'm like, the fact that they're whole, I'm like, you guys are some of the nept. speaker-1: Yeah. Thank speaker-0: People because leadership and tactic tacticians. Yeah, because there's no way that that should be even a threat. speaker-1: Yeah, they all like they they die pretty quickly too I mean Johnny and his squad they take down two of them as soon as they land Yeah, like those warheads and they have a tons of those warheads. They use speaker-0: Yeah, the fact that they only use planes one time in this movie to take out bugs and the fact that they're stuck. The fact that they even have a mobile infantry makes no sense. Like, why does it matter? These things are on a planet. They can't fly. They can only hurl their spore into space. Just nuke them from above. That's all you have to do. This would be easiest thing to the easiest enemy to take out. speaker-1: Yeah, I completely agree. But then you wouldn't have a move. speaker-0: Well, or it's like they've been so conditioned to not think for themselves that again, I almost think the sky marshal and the military leadership and the carls of the world want this war to happen. It's a way to control the people and to not have them focus on their limited freedoms. They literally have to be in the military to have any to have maybe not economic freedom, but to have like a say in your electoral system and in your society and to be a citizen. So I think they might not want the war, Dan. They might be like, yeah, we'll go throw them in them, go throw them down on the ground and do a hand to hand combat with a race that can't get the space except for some blue poop. speaker-1: Yeah, I mean like fighting in an environment where they're clearly at a disadvantage. There's more bugs in them. yeah, they're completely agree. speaker-0: Yeah. It's it again. I don't know if Paul van Hoeven Hoeven, excuse me ⁓ or the original writer Robert a Heinlein or Heinlein or however you say his last name But I don't know if they were commenting on that it was intentional because yeah took completely falls apart if you're but at the same time again, I don't know I'm totally can you see? look it I'm not a big conspiracy theory guy in real life, but speaker-1: . speaker-0: I think there could be some conspiracies going on here in this world, for sure. speaker-1: Yeah, absolutely. I believe it. I only have one more because we've touched on so much. We've touched on like how they're 30, but they're high schoolers, you know, just like, but no, my last one, it ties into the battery bugs ⁓ during the Kundathu invasion where Carmen and like the space, the spaceships are getting blown up. How are Carmen and Xander alive? They got hit. The scene shows fire coming into the cockpit and Carmen diving and being engulfed in fire and then it cuts the black. It fades away, goes to the next scene. And then when we see Carmen and Xander and them after the battle, they're literally in the cockpit and they're fine. Carmen is... speaker-0: It's kind of scratching, right? speaker-1: She's got a scratch. But like they got hit, direct impact, where there was fire coming in, but the glass is fine. The whole cockpit is fine. Everybody's fine. But they're, I don't know. It could have been. It felt like a huge continuity error or something. But yeah, I mean, cause when you watch it, you're like, ⁓ shit, Carmen just died. And then they come back and they're like, well, that was close or whatever. mean like. speaker-0: little flame that just happened to go in front of the camera. I'm sorry. speaker-1: ⁓ It's just so goofy, but... speaker-0: Yeah, that's what I had at the end to when Carmen gets when they're when they when Xander and her in the skate pod crash land on P and Xander gets his brain sucked out and then Carmen has a bug arm right through her shoulder like the size of a baseball bat. speaker-1: Yeah, and it picked. speaker-0: And it picks her up, sluffs her off, and then she just runs out holding guns and is then giving high fives to Carl at the end of the movie. I'm like, girl, there's a baseball bat through your shoulder. speaker-1: Your boyfriend just had his brain sucked up and you're like, ⁓ they zoom got the brain bug. speaker-0: It's like, ⁓ let's promise that we meet back here, the three of us again. speaker-1: You know, funny enough, feel like when ⁓ Carmen got lifted up off the ground by that bug pincer, that was the most believable acting I think I've seen from her. Her screaming was actually, I was like, whoa, that's a pretty good scream. speaker-0: Pros for life. Well, wasn't believable after the fact. speaker-1: No, I think they kind of forgot that she just yeah got stabbed and her boyfriend died speaker-0: My other nitpick. So when Johnny and Diz hook up for the first time and they're making out, Ratchack comes in and he's like Rico we're up in ten and then she's like make it 20. speaker-1: Yeah. Make it time. speaker-0: You don't need a safe time. Johnny hasn't... When was the last time Johnny had sex? Dude, that dude can get that done in 10 minutes flat. speaker-1: ⁓ problem. and they think about it too. speaker-0: I Carmen might not or Diz might not be satisfied at the end. speaker-1: ⁓ speaker-0: But there's no doubt, I'm like, 10 minutes? This guy's been going to war and in boot camp for a year. That dude's not lasting more than that. speaker-1: Mean the last yeah the last time he I mean he kisses Carmen at the dance and she says her dad's not home. Yes If I mean, don't know if they even did anything cuz he he barely gets kisses Like she even rejected him on his Microsoft paint gift So who knows maybe those first time speaker-0: You assume that's probably the last time he's up there. I'm just saying, Radchek didn't need to give them 20 minutes. They had an 18 minute cuddle after that, you know what I mean? speaker-1: was supposed to... sorry. speaker-0: Alright, anything else you got in the explainer? speaker-1: No, we've touched on so much of it. mean, I don't know, peppered throughout our entire conversation, but some of those, like the egregious ones, that's all I had. speaker-0: Man oh another one ahead. This is the last one. Okay last one when They're in the gravity well, and they have their asteroid coming at him It's Carmen and Xander and they go to take emergency evasive action a thing pops up And she has to break glass and hit a button. Yeah, like what the what is this? speaker-1: Yeah. actually break glass. speaker-0: I break glass to do an emergency evasion of this. What's going on? Why would that be a thing? Sorry. Another one. like, this is stupid. speaker-1: Yeah, no, I completely agree. speaker-0: I mean, this world is stupid that they live in. it's like, you know, someone's doing something like someone thought it was a good idea to do that, but it is funny. I was like, why would that be? Why would she has to break that? speaker-1: No I that scene, I think it's the same scene. She objectively has the worst, whoever was in charge of hair and makeup for that scene, she has like this weird like poof thing. It almost looks like she's wearing one of the soldiers helmets on her head, but it's just her hair. And I don't know why they did that. I actually, it bothered me enough to where I was about to put it down as age the worst is some of the women in the movie, whoever did their hair, cause Diz, there's several scenes where Diz's hair is like, what? speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: doing here. Not to be mean to anybody, but yeah. ⁓ speaker-0: Okay, so I meant to talk about this on characters. Who is more sympathetic? Carmen or Diz for you? speaker-1: is for me because Carmen ⁓ I don't know because speaker-0: was like, Carmen is doing nothing wrong other than just being aggressively pursued by Johnny, and she's pretty honest with it. speaker-1: I mean, she... And she's also pretty practical. Yeah. Because she breaks up with him when she says that like, I'm going to go career. So like, there's not really any. speaker-0: She's not really leading him on. think she is generally interested in him. She just knows that this isn't the one for her. know, Johnny just loves sick. speaker-1: I think I have more sympathy for Diz because yeah, Carmen does nothing wrong, but we, I think we sit with Johnny more and so Diz gets the short end of the stick more compared to Carmen, I guess. speaker-0: Maybe as a man watching it. ⁓ Yeah, from the way Johnny treats her. See, so my wife had a completely different read on that. She was like, ⁓ my God, this is so pathetic because she's just like so stuck on this guy in the same way that I think Johnny is pathetic for Carmen. ⁓ think, almost related to Carmen more because ⁓ was, ⁓ know, ⁓ self-assured, more not really leading Johnny, being pretty straight up with him when she knew what she wanted. ⁓ for me, ⁓ like, you know, ⁓ a man, ⁓ my mind in. ⁓ speaker-1: Hmm. speaker-0: shoes where I'm like dude ⁓ Carmen's no good for you. She's not interested. Look at this straddle over there She's being you know, ⁓ I think it was just interesting how my wife had a completely different read on it ⁓ as a female ⁓ putting ourselves in the ⁓ leads shoes opposed to the male lead shoes Which is how I've always interpreted the movie as you know speaker-1: Yeah. I I think probably too. It's almost like, I don't want to say the male fantasy, but like it feels like a plot written by a man. yeah, Johnny has, he has Carmen, but he also has Diz, you know, like swooning over him on the back burner. Both of these women are very objectively pretty, but like, you know, I don't know. Johnny, speaker-0: fantasy. speaker-1: Johnny can kind of like have his pick for at least until Carmen dumps him, but it does. It kind of feels like a man wrote this and it's not really from a woman's perspective. Cause I agree. Yeah, I agree. What, what would cause Diz to be so crazy about Johnny that she would join the military, put her life in danger. Yeah. speaker-0: Doesn't she say she's going to like Princeton or something? speaker-1: I mean, like she shows up unexpectedly and he's he questions her. He's like, you saying you didn't come here because of me. Oh, yeah. Yeah. She was. Yeah. Which also, by the way, side note, the coed football, like it's funny. speaker-0: going on a football scholarship or whatever? Scholarship to university. It's funny, I never noticed it growing up at all. And then maybe now because we're living such a fucking terrible time, I notice it more and it's like, I'm just like, but for me, it did not bother me at all growing up. It doesn't bother me at all now. I think it's fun, but it is interesting. Probably another thing about commenting on society. speaker-1: It's yeah. Yeah. But and then I mean when they find that when Johnny and Diz do hook up, Diz tells him, I love you. Right. Yeah. It's it feels like where is this? Why are you so obsessed with Johnny? What is it about him? But I can see why from a female's perspective that you would think that Carmen because she did she did nothing wrong. I mean, speaker-0: If anything, she's like... Johnny's pathetic. speaker-1: She has this loser who wants to keep dating her and she's like, no man, I'm out. But I mean, like also to clearly the relationship hadn't gotten that far. I mean before she goes off to join the flight again. speaker-0: It doesn't even seem like they really like yeah are that serious boyfriend girlfriend he I think it for him it is speaker-1: Yeah, he says I love you and then he tries to get her to say it. He's I was trying on for size and she like reluctantly says it. So clearly they're not even at that point where they have like, you but it's speaker-0: That was another one my wife was like, ugh, gross. That's how, side note, that's how I got my wife to say I love you for the first time. speaker-1: Yeah, try it on for size. Did you steal that line from Rico? speaker-0: I did and then she, yeah she still doesn't say it that often. But you know, I know she does, you know? speaker-1: I'm Interesting take Carly. speaker-0: Yeah, she did not like this that much. speaker-1: That's fair. I don't know. I feel like even watching this movie, I don't know if I've ever really warmed up to Diz. I just feel bad for Diz. Yeah. Because Johnny always treats you like shit. Until Radchek's like, dude, just what are you doing? And then he's like, ⁓ yeah, I got your right. speaker-0: I've been in section so long, I'm going to last two minutes in there. I mean, 20 minutes. I mean, two minutes. speaker-1: Yeah, I mean like Diz dies and like they have a funeral for or whatever but like he's fine I think the fact that I think one Constant throughout this movie is that people nobody dies in normal painless death Everybody dies in super horrific ways and then everybody around them just keeps chugging like alright, let's go like it's just another one for the grinder but speaker-0: I don't know if that's smart writing as like the society just is because they're literally Buenos Aires is destroyed everyone they know their parents their friends who didn't leave like everyone they know is dead and they're just like Yeah, it's pretty Kill some books, right? They turned into hatred. Yeah, which I think is on purposeful writing and I think it's the same thing with you know speaker-1: Yeah, let's go kill some bugs speaker-0: When a character that means a lot to them dies, they're like, yeah, this is tough. And the earlier deaths mean more too to them. Like when the guy dies in training, the farmer guy, when he dies in training and the one girl gets like quote unquote washed out. and Johnny takes it pretty hard and then Buenos Aires dies and then finally like the deaths just keep coming after that point and they just get numb to it. And I don't know if that's smart writing, if it's convenient for the plot to, to keep things moving forward and keeping it fun but. speaker-1: Okay. Yeah. speaker-0: Alright, any other nitpicks? Okay. Alright, well then, let's rate this movie. Should this be a classic of all classics of all time? Should this be the most classic we've ever watched? speaker-1: No. ⁓ I'll give my take on it. Absolutely not. don't think for us, for me personally, I can't speak for you, but for me personally, this still holds a pretty firm top 10 spot in my all time favorite movies. But for really any other human being, it's a hard no. It's an objectively terrible movie. ⁓ I don't know if I can recommend that you watch it. Unless you get into just goofy sci-fi. ⁓ But... It is. It is. speaker-0: It's hyper violent. It's yeah, it I ⁓ forgot how violent it was. speaker-1: Yeah, I did too. then, yeah, when you start seeing, I mean, because they start using a lot of their CGI for the death scenes too. There are some, you know, practical effects, but some of them where you just see these bugs ripping, literally ripping people in half. Or like when they are at the outpost and the flying bugs start decapitating people and just like, and then you see heads just pop off. You're like, ⁓ my God. ⁓ I mean, it's really, or Zander's death, that I'm shocked that you were not traumatized as an eight year old because that's a, watching Zander get his brain out. speaker-0: was a pretty cool eight year old though, so. Or a pretty fine eight year old either way. speaker-1: I mean it really it I feel like To be attracted to this type of movie, feel like you have to... This has to be a very specific movie that you want to see. I feel like this is not just casual, haha, let's go watch this for fun. Yeah. Agreed. Because I don't know if you're going to find a lot to like here, but if you are like us and you watched it when you were in high school or earlier and you were a teenage boy, you probably loved it. I... It has so much nostalgia for me that the entire... I think rewatching it the other night, I think... I had a smile on my face from start to finish. speaker-0: I was annoying my wife quoting it so much as we were watching it. ⁓ I agree, you know, so the like the godfather to our podcast, I feel like is this podcast called rewatchable and. ⁓ speaker-1: It's so fun. speaker-0: It's similar. I'm just we totally ripped him off. But I love that podcast so much and I love the conversations they had that I just wanted to have those kind of conversations with you, which is why I wanted to make this podcast. I try to make it different enough to be our original idea. But it is like to say that we didn't ⁓ or that I didn't steal or. Pay homage, whatever you want to say it, a lot to this podcast, Re-Watchable. What I think is really interesting about the concept of that show versus this, what we're trying to do, we're looking at classic movies and re-watching them, or in a lot of cases watching them for the first time, and really trying to look back at the history of film and grow our library. ⁓ The rewatchable podcast is all about the starship troopers of the world. These movies you've watched a hundred times. speaker-1: Mm-hmm. speaker-0: And I agree with you. This movie is not a classic. It is. think there's a lot of real. think the direction is really good. I think the acting is subpar. I think the special effects are really great. I think the costume design is subpar. think the choreography of the fighting is subpar. There's a lot of weak parts in this movie. You watch L.A. Confidential like we did last last episode and they're hitting on all cylinders. I'm not like a huge, I was not a huge huge huge fan of that movie, I thought it was good, but they're hitting on all cylinders. Solid acting, solid direction, solid you know score, solid everything. This movie has probably three out of the seven categories, but it is so rewatchable and so this is not a classic. It does not deserve to be on AFI's top 100 movies of all time, but speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: I guarantee you it is probably watched a lot more than a lot of those movies are. And that's how I feel about this movie. This is a rewatchable movie. It's a fun movie. does take, you have to be a particular type of person to enjoy it, I think, because it is so violent. But it's a great, great movie for a 16 year old boy. speaker-1: Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah, so if you have teenage boys... speaker-0: No, no, do not show this movie to your 16 year old. It was as, as, I'm speaking from experience as a 16 year old. This movie is not appropriate. I will not be showing this. speaker-1: Anyway. Yeah, I was gonna say if ⁓ I had a son, and yourson wants to come watch Starship Troopers with Uncle Justin, he can come on over. We'll bust out the 2002 special edition DVD. ⁓ it's definitely, falls, this is not. speaker-0: on this. Maybe I'll leave it suspiciously out so that my that my son and then my his cousins can like sneak and go steal it and watch it. I know what you guys are like changing your lives right now. I'm just like, ⁓ don't watch this movie, but I might leave it out on the counter. They're going to be OK. speaker-1: Yeah. And then you can ask him, hey how about that shower scene? ⁓ your dad's favorite scene too. ⁓ it definitely is a ⁓ no ⁓ ⁓ of, ⁓ not a classic but. ⁓ speaker-0: ⁓ no way. It's our first movie that we've rated for me as not a classic, but goddamn I love this movie. speaker-1: It's so good. If you do watch it, you probably might like it. Maybe you don't, but maybe you do. don't know. I mean, this movie made... What is ⁓ the guy that he intakes Johnny at the beginning with no legs and like one arm. This movie made me what I am today. Yeah, that's exactly what it did. This was a fun one though. speaker-0: our personalities you probably like it. ⁓ yeah, there you go. It was fun to go back. It wasn't a chore. Sometimes I feel like watching some of the movies we watch, was like, okay, let me get through this. And I usually, I don't think there's been a single movie we watched that I didn't enjoy to some level. But man, was, was like, I was looking forward to this one. I really disappointed my brother couldn't come. It'd been fun to. speaker-1: Yeah, this one was really fun. Yeah, I would love to see it. Maybe we can get him on something else in the future. Yeah, for sure. I don't know what other movies we used to watch the hell out of, maybe we can... speaker-0: And if we ever do like a Lord of the Rings movie, I would love to do one, but I feel like we got to get some more classic. speaker-1: Yeah, or if we ever get that ⁓ last airbender the entire series down into one speaker-0: ⁓ I thought you were gonna say the N.I. Shyamalan movie. So horrible. speaker-1: I've still never seen it. We'll find something. We'll get Rick on here. speaker-0: Alright man, any other last thoughts? All right, well, like I said, we got some social media. So if you want to check us out on YouTube, we're popcornandpalspod. And we just got really the show and then some shorts on there. But it's fun time. We also have an email, popcornandpals.gmail.com. Send us any recommendations if you have for movies to watch or if you want to complain about us. You can send it directly to us. We'll just filter that right into trash, but that's okay. But yeah, no, please reach out to us. We'd love to hear from you. And ⁓ as always, keep popping that popcorn.