Latest / The Discussion Podcast / From Pen to Paperback: Dylan Miller's Rapid Rise

Transcript

From Pen to Paperback: Dylan Miller's Rapid Rise · The Discussion Podcast

0:00
This is The Late Late Lunch Show with Rod Maxwell.
0:06
So today on The Late Late Lunch Show, the lunch discussion is a literacy,
0:10
one, easy for me to say, and we're going all the way to SEAL to speak with Dylan
0:16
Miller, who's a poet and an author, and we're going to be talking about how
0:20
you got into that and his latest book.
0:23
Dylan, how are you? Really good, Rod. How are you?
0:26
I'm very, very well. So you are a poet, you're now an author.
0:32
Where did this all start? How did you get into it?
0:36
You see, everyone tends to hate me that little bit when I say this,
0:40
but basically the moment that I picked up a pen, I started writing that
0:45
as far back as I remember I've been writing, that I remember the furthest away
0:52
would have been when I was in reception writing a poem that got put in this
0:56
little mini poetry anthology.
0:58
But it's only within the last couple of years that I sort of had that moment
1:02
of hang on I'm actually good at this when I'd entered Cell Festival's poetry
1:07
trail I'd put a poem in for that,
1:10
and it was one of the ones that ended up making it into the final trail and
1:13
it sort of it made that moment of people actually want to read what I'm writing,
1:19
and so yeah that's particularly when i sort of went,
1:24
here you go here's my writing enjoy,
1:27
so one of the things i want to talk to in more depth but i want to touch on
1:31
it now is the the self-consciousness side,
1:35
of writing because as as a young guy being into literature wouldn't have been
1:40
particularly typical or trendy,
1:44
and and to focus on it would have taken a certain amount of self-belief and self-confidence.
1:52
Were you feeling that at the time I mean I've got to admit,
1:56
you know coming from a sort of person like me that I don't tend to fit in with your typical you know,
2:04
one of the boys boys if you think about it that I've tended to always be one
2:09
of those you know alone sheep but with friends I think it's a good way to describe it that,
2:15
I've never been one of those where I've had the typical, you know,
2:19
manliness of, oh, I'm a bit nervous today.
2:22
I will just go out there and be open. I will say stuff.
2:26
And so I feel like that confidence, and I've got my parents to thank massively for that.
2:32
They brought me up, you know, knowing you are you and that is good.
2:36
And so when I figured out that writing is a bit of me, it's like,
2:40
okay, I'll accept that. I'll welcome you and I'll share who I am now.
2:45
And so I feel like, yeah, that self-confidence is sort of big,
2:51
luckily, because of the sort of person that I am.
2:54
Because you do need that, don't you? Because I often think whether you're an
2:58
artist, whether you're a singer, whether you're a poet, whether you're a writer.
3:05
You're opening yourself up to people. And there's a lot of you in there that
3:10
you're opening up that a lot of people don't make that transparent.
3:14
That takes, if you think about it too much, you might not do it,
3:18
but that takes a lot of confidence.
3:21
I mean the fact that some of my poems can get more personal as well the big
3:26
range that I write of the fact of you know I'll do the odd random poet like
3:31
I'm currently in the process of writing one about ducks and geese on the canal,
3:36
but then of course I've done some more deeper ones like you know going into
3:40
my mental health my sexuality all of that trying to go into some of the deeper topics And it's like,
3:46
not many people feel like they can say stuff like that nowadays, that they can't.
3:53
Speak about themselves in a way that isn't too selfish, if you know what I mean.
3:58
I know exactly what you mean. And we'll talk about that because as much as I
4:02
think today society is a little bit more open, it's a little bit more reflective.
4:10
There's still that element to which you're never quite sure how much you should
4:14
open up. There's always going to be somebody that will shoot you down.
4:17
We've got so much to talk about, Dylan. We'll take a break and we'll be back.
4:20
Today, my guest is Dylan Miller, a local writer, a local author,
4:25
and we'll speak to him more after this.
4:30
Today on the Late Late Lunch Show, the lunch discussion is one of literature,
4:34
and we're talking to a local author, a local poet from sale, Dylan Miller.
4:39
And Dylan, it's fair to say that for somebody who's now publishing,
4:44
you're quite young to have got that stage.
4:47
We were talking just before about your first moments of discovering literature
4:52
and discovering literature.
4:54
That you had a love for it, but having a love for other people's writing and
5:00
then starting to do your own is quite a different ballgame.
5:04
When did you start putting down your own thoughts, either as a poem or a short story or whatever?
5:10
I've always been quite a bit of a book one, but luckily with the primary school
5:15
that I went to, they're dead keen on, you know, take a book,
5:19
read it, and if it's a topic that you're passionate about, give it a go at writing it.
5:24
And so, of course, I discovered, yeah, I quite like reading this sort of book.
5:29
I like reading shorter poems and stuff like that as well.
5:33
And, you know, it captures my attention span perfectly.
5:37
And so they then put that into action and sort of went, you know,
5:41
here we go. Let's go and get writing this now.
5:45
It just sort of it formed from there of there's that connection between the two, which I like.
5:50
And I do owe a lot to my primary school in the fact of they started all of this
5:56
that I was saying before about this anthology that was released when I was in
6:00
reception, you know, I was like, what, six-ish?
6:05
Getting this little poem that I've written about playing out in the snow,
6:09
that, you know, it's then out there, all because they've done that little bit of encouragement.
6:16
And so your first published poem was at the age of six.
6:21
Yes, which is weird. It is weird. But at that stage, though,
6:26
you know, you're not really that self-conscious, are you?
6:31
You're doing it for the love. And having somebody to guide you,
6:34
parental, teachers, etc.
6:36
That's really quite key, isn't it? Obviously, I've done quite a bit by myself,
6:41
but I honestly, I wouldn't be wherever I am if it wasn't for the people that
6:44
have sort of pushed me to get here.
6:47
You know, whether that be my parents, my wonderful nan, who I can guarantee
6:51
is listening now. It's a big shout out to my nan, Barbara.
6:54
And then, of course, all of my
6:56
teachers as well, primary school and high school and college, All of them,
7:03
All just sort of pushing me And saying you know Get writing Go for it That I
7:08
feel like Because they've done that,
7:10
all throughout that time, all throughout the time when I've been wanting to
7:15
do writing, that it sort of made it so that that self-consciousness and,
7:20
you know, going, should I really be writing stuff like that?
7:25
It sort of made it not be there. It's meant that I can write more naturally
7:30
without going, do I include that bit? Do I include this? You know,
7:35
can I write about that topic?
7:37
It's made it so that I can write more freely and openly.
7:40
And can I ask you about your writing style and almost your writing methodology,
7:45
whether it be a poem or whether it be a short story or a longer piece of story writing?
7:53
Have you been conscious about developing that, thinking about that?
7:56
Did you take somebody else's sort of style and develop that,
8:00
or is that something that's an ongoing process of developing.
8:06
The way to write and the way to convert thoughts and ideas onto paper in the form of a poem or a story?
8:14
I mean more recently I've got to admit I embrace a sort of Oscar Wilde style
8:19
of I think of a topic I go wow this is a good topic,
8:24
I write it out in one way and go oh my gosh why did I create that monstrosity
8:29
and shift on to a different form whether that be I started off as a poem go
8:34
no this is going too deep for a poem and can work as a short story or the other
8:38
way around where I've done a short story, I've written a paragraph and gone,
8:42
uh-oh, this isn't going to fit being a short story's length.
8:45
It'll work better as a poem. Instead, it might work better as a play.
8:50
That I sort of, I jump around between based on the topic, which I mean,
8:56
apart from Oscar Wilde, I can't think of any other writer that is known for doing that.
9:00
It tends to be they've got their own sort of format and then they introduce the topic to that.
9:07
But no, I tend to work the other way around. But that flexibility is almost
9:12
unique to The Wardsmith, isn't it?
9:15
Because if you're in a band and you're writing a song, you've got to collaborate
9:21
and work that out between say two three four five people.
9:25
And and that flexibility is reduced by the number of people you've got to interface with,
9:31
whereas when you are writing for yourself by yourself you can switch lanes like that,
9:38
very easily honestly it is absolutely amazing that of course
9:43
i do try and incorporate a sort of community feel in some of my poems and stuff
9:48
like even though I'm the only one writing say I'm writing it about an event
9:52
I'll try and make it so that everyone at that event feels like they're included,
9:57
but sort of having the freedom like my book The Threatened that has been through
10:01
so many different genres,
10:03
it started off as a short little poem which then became the epigraph for those
10:07
who aren't literally you know nerds like me the epigraph is a short little poem
10:11
that you get before the actual story then it It became a short story as part
10:16
of the short story competition with Get Free Books.
10:19
Then it became, of course, an actual novella, a proper imprint book.
10:24
And so it can jump between all of those formats.
10:27
And it's like, I have the freedom to do that. And I'm massively thankful because,
10:31
of course, being a solo writer as well, being able to just do that,
10:37
to have that freedom to not have to worry about,
10:40
what's Fred going to play on his guitar while I'm saying this or something like that.
10:45
I've got to, you know, have the sort of freedom instead.
10:49
Well, I'll tell you what, it's a good place to take a break and we'll come back
10:52
and we'll talk about your book, The Friends, which was, I think,
10:55
published in 2025. Is that right? Yeah.
10:58
Yep. And so we'll come back, we'll take a break, and we'll be back with the
11:03
author, the poet, Dylan Miller, and we'll talk about his book, The Friends.
11:08
You're listening to Radio Alty. It's the Lately Lunch Show, and Rod Maxwell
11:11
with the lunch discussion.
11:13
And today, lunch discussion is with a seal-based writer, poet Dylan Miller,
11:18
who we just heard published his book, The Friends, in 2025.
11:23
So, Dylan, talk about the book.
11:26
When did you decide to write it? And what was the kernel, the core of the book in the story?
11:34
I mean, it's one of them where it's been on quite a big journey,
11:38
as I'd said before that song, that it sort of got.
11:42
This journey to it of the fact of, I wrote it as a little mini poem about how
11:47
I'm lucky having a close friendship group,
11:50
but I've heard of loads of different nightmare stories,
11:54
as they're called you know scare quotes of these friendship groups where they
11:59
all secretly hate each other and stuff like that and that that trust isn't there
12:04
so it became a little mini poem,
12:06
and then once I'd done the poem I was like okay I'm happy with that I'll leave that,
12:11
and then while I was walking through Stanley Square I'd spotted this poster
12:16
about this story competition that was being run by the Get Free Bookshop,
12:21
wonderful bookshop in Seattle, and that I thought,
12:25
you know what, this poem's got the potential to, you know, introduce characters
12:29
to it, bring it to life that little bit more, and the theme of the competition
12:34
was words have consequences, which, of course, from that poem, it was like,
12:39
okay, so friends don't trust each other,
12:42
because of what they've said, that links together perfectly, and.
12:46
And then from that point, when it had won the competition, I was included in this story anthology.
12:52
I was like, this is obviously some sort of golden piece that I've created for
12:58
it to have been a success of a poem and then being successful as a short story.
13:05
Why don't I carry on writing it and see where it goes? And so I introduced a
13:08
couple more new characters, a few different plot twists, made it that little bit longer.
13:15
And yeah from there it just sort of developed.
13:19
Wow wow and then and again having the freedom and the control to do that and
13:27
you know to do that by yourself is a very powerful and,
13:32
a great opportunity but it's a very powerful thing to do,
13:35
i mean it's one of them where i try to not let the power get to my head as well
13:40
because i mean i've mentioned about some of my inspirations earlier on in the
13:44
interview, but like, you've got the likes of George Orwell, who I look up to,
13:49
and of course he's written some more lengthier ones,
13:52
but you've also got shorter ones like Animal Farm, one of my personal favourite books.
13:57
That that's only like 30,000 words just under Like think it's five words under
14:03
that or something like that,
14:05
So I used that as my figure point of okay I love this book Millions upon millions
14:11
of people have loved this book.
14:13
If that's enough to keep their attention span for Then it'll work for my one
14:19
And so of course working with it from this short story That was only like you
14:23
know just below 5,000 words,
14:26
and I just sort of kept on going at it with my little word count down the bottom
14:31
telling me as the words go up and of course I had the freedom to just you know
14:36
whenever I had the spare time get out my computer start typing away,
14:41
or get a notepad start scribbling down some plus ideas,
14:45
and yeah one day I was just writing notice down and I'd gone to 31,000 having
14:51
not noticed that I'd gone anywhere near my initial target, I'd managed to take
14:57
over it by a massive amount of words.
14:59
And I was like, oh my word, this is now publishable. This is something that
15:05
I can go further on with than just having it sat there in my bank of stories.
15:11
I can get it out there. And so, of course, I've had that sort of freedom to
15:16
set my boundaries as well, which I like, because, of course,
15:18
you've got that much power,
15:20
to make it so that you've got the ability to sort of, you know,
15:25
tell myself, okay, so that's a good point to aim it around.
15:31
But, of course, I can then say, go a little bit further, like,
15:35
say, with this point with 31,000,
15:38
I knew that there was that little extra chapter that just needed going in to
15:42
tie it all together, to make it all, you know, look nice at the end, essentially.
15:47
But it just, it gave me that sort of point to go, okay, this is all right now. Wow.
15:55
I mean, in today's society, digitalization of media has meant that people can self-publish.
16:03
And while it's always beneficial to have a publishing house behind you for the
16:08
promotion and all of that, and also the mentorship as well, did you self-publish on this?
16:16
Yup, self-published. I've got to admit, looking back on it, I wasn't exactly
16:21
the happiest with the way that I did it. But of course, I was an author,
16:25
you know, just finding my feet.
16:28
But I still managed to self-publish. And that's something that I'm like,
16:33
wow, bearing in mind that at that point, I was only 17 as well, you know, 18 now.
16:38
But only 17 then, and having created this book that can now go out,
16:44
it's like, this is amazing. I've got this thing that I've created that's now out there with people.
16:51
And what did it feel like when you went into, I don't know, foils or waterstones,
16:56
and your physical book was on the shelf?
17:00
Insane to be honest like I was sat there I remember the specific moment as well
17:06
I was sat there in my history class and I'm so sorry to my history teacher,
17:12
but I'd finished all of the work early and was like I'm done and so I was just
17:16
messing around on Google as one does,
17:19
and I'd spotted as I was typing in my book to show one of my friends the first
17:23
link that came up was once Waterstones and all of a sudden the messing around stopped and I was like,
17:29
that's not Amazon that's not where I know it is and so of course I clicked on
17:34
it and I was like oh my word that's my book on the Waterstones website a website
17:39
of a shop that I've been going into since I was a.
17:46
It must be amazing to have that feeling, actually.
17:50
I'm going to take a break and come back. I want to talk to you about the process
17:56
of writing, because I'm really interested in the methodology and whether,
18:02
you've developed a style of this or it's more freer.
18:08
So today, my guest is the writer, Dylan Miller, also the poet,
18:13
comes from sale, has published at the age of 18, is that, Adil?
18:17
Yep, 18, out of January 27th.
18:21
And he's the author of the book of The Friends, which came out in 2025.
18:26
We'll talk to him more in a couple of minutes' time.
18:29
In terms of an approach to writing, because I can imagine your approach has
18:35
been somewhat organic, but I've
18:37
heard of people who have storyboards and they've got all the different,
18:42
chapters worked out, they've got the characters worked out, they've got the...
18:48
And it's then from that summary, you're trying to get it into the book.
18:54
Is your style like that or is it more organic, if you like?
18:58
Without meaning to sound mean towards those authors, don't do that at all. Please don't.
19:04
Because that gives you that sort of concrete, I must follow this path.
19:09
Whereas I have to be honest when I was writing my book I thought that the killer
19:14
at the end was a completely different person to who I then wrote it to be,
19:18
and so of course if you let the story flow then there's certain points where
19:23
you go hang on I was going to go down that pathway,
19:26
but if I go down a different pathway then the story can grow that little bit
19:31
more it just sort of makes sense now that the way that I've written it.
19:35
And so, yeah, I do tend to have a sort of plan.
19:38
I'm very thankful for Google Slides that I rely on that massively of,
19:43
I'll just splat, one slide's dedicated to all of the characters,
19:47
one slide's dedicated to all of the different, you know, main settings.
19:52
But I tend to not specifically go, right, in this chapter, this person will do this.
19:58
Because that sort of makes me be, you know, handcuffed to that idea, I must be there.
20:05
Whereas with, you know, the way that I write, I can go, right,
20:11
that's one, that's one, which one works better?
20:15
And then I can sort of develop it from there.
20:18
And I guess that means that you're almost building a jigsaw puzzle,
20:21
but you're sort of creating the pieces while you're doing it.
20:25
But you've got to make sure it works in a sequence and it works in its context, if that makes sense.
20:33
Really decent metaphor I love that one but yeah of the jigsaw puzzle it is sort
20:38
of like I've got the same colored pieces,
20:42
and I've got the same way to link them together but it's all about the,
20:45
linking bit on top essentially of will it then carry on of course you know you
20:52
need to sort of think of how will this look all round how will the overall finished product look,
20:58
and if you go for a sort of, you know, specific one,
21:02
then you've got that sort of way of, I may end up branching off and you've got
21:07
that one tiny piece missing that anyone who's built a puzzle and has lost a
21:12
piece, it is so frustrating seeing it like that.
21:15
Whereas with this, it's like you've got this finished puzzle and usually there's
21:20
that little, you know, attachment bit sticking out of where you can go on to the next book then.
21:26
Well, I was going to come to you about that, but before we talk about that,
21:29
I was going to say, you know,
21:32
can it be as mechanistic as going, I feel like I need a cliff edge here,
21:38
or I need a bit of suspense, or, you know,
21:41
I've got to get this in because it opens up another door or it adds a bit of intrigue.
21:48
It'll get the reader thinking of they're going down one route but they might be going to another.
21:54
Are you constantly thinking of that? It's a bit like Snakes and Ladders, really.
21:59
I mean, massively. I have been told multiple times by most people that I've
22:05
spoken to who've read my book that they had no clue who the killer was until
22:09
they were revealed at the end.
22:12
And so it's sort of, I have to admit I'm one of those officers,
22:15
as well, that I'll get to a certain point and I'll go, right,
22:19
you're perfectly safe, you know, there's no way that anyone would be able to kill you.
22:24
So this is the chapter where you're going to die. And I will sort of throw in
22:28
that massive curveball of, where did this come from? That shouldn't have happened.
22:34
And I do purposely sort of annoying to the reader, but in a good way,
22:40
things of you will suspect a person you will think they must 100% be the killer
22:46
and I go right that's gonna basically make us be a point of massive suspense
22:51
where you've got that idea.
22:53
Why not make it that little bit more suspense and, you know,
22:58
add that bit more tension there by making this main suspect all of a sudden be killed?
23:03
And it's sort of, you can go from there of, you know, developing the way the
23:09
pathway is going by going, right, I'll drop that character.
23:13
I'll make this friendship all of a sudden separate.
23:16
And it does eventually make it so that at the end,
23:20
it can all sort of form together and basically all of the strings can tie together
23:25
that nice neat bit and i can imagine though your time of life and the way that,
23:31
as a teenager personalities can change and develop so quickly that,
23:39
you can bring that into the book in layers if you like because you're always
23:44
discovering something about somebody.
23:47
As their whole person is developing. I mean, all of the characters are around
23:52
age 16, 17 as well, which sort of helps because, as you said,
23:57
around that age, they're going from their teenage,
24:03
laid-back hall to now being thrown into the adult world.
24:07
And so, of course, you've got all of the personalities adapting, changing.
24:11
There's one character in particular who you start off at the book absolutely
24:16
hating with a strong passion hating,
24:18
and at the end you absolutely love them and they'll become one of your favorite
24:22
characters it's like I've seen that happen with actual people like go from going
24:28
you don't exactly seem the nicest person,
24:31
to then going hang on you have just become like my new best friend like.
24:37
It's amazing the way that they can sort of develop and the fact that I can then
24:42
put that onto the characters.
24:44
And it must be wonderful that you have, I'll use the word control,
24:50
but you can control that universe in that book and you can decide how you want that to play out.
24:57
That's quite a lovely gift, if you like.
25:00
I'm like some sort of omnipotent figure I'm able to rule over all of the people,
25:06
that it's sort of it's nice that I can decide,
25:10
who's who of sorts like yeah I can create these characters I can form their
25:17
friendships and it does just sort of come to me as well like I'll be walking
25:21
along the street and I'll go,
25:23
oh my word I've put those two people near each other they have the opportunity to be friends so why not,
25:31
and in a similar way these two people have had a sort of little moment of,
25:36
hmm, I don't like you that much.
25:38
And so why not make them separate for a bit? Why not see how their characters
25:42
can sort of fend for themselves?
25:45
It's sort of, I have the power to be able to, of course, because the book's
25:49
all about trust, sort of manipulate their trust in each other,
25:53
which is a weird feeling to have.
25:57
But also it's a very responsible feeling to have because especially with you
26:01
writing at that age group and a lot of your readers being at that age group,
26:06
it's a very emotionally delicate time of people's lives.
26:10
And you might have somebody reading that feeling a bit victimized,
26:14
if you like, and you want them to gain some strength of character from it.
26:20
And you might have somebody who is victimizing and you want them to reflect
26:26
maybe on that that that's you have that ability or responsibility to get that
26:31
into your work do you think about that at all dylan.
26:34
Massively i mean the main character at the beginning because of course throughout
26:39
the story as people sort of drop off and people appear all of that it sort of
26:43
changes around but at the beginning the first character that you're introduced to jack,
26:48
he goes through bullying due to the way that he is like whether that be his
26:53
sexuality at one point the fact that he's smart in class that there's so many
26:59
different things that you sort of see him go through
27:02
and i have seen people go through firsthand whether that be from myself,
27:06
or people who are close to me and it's like if i had have read this book and i had have gone
27:12
that person has this real life thing happened to them and of course you know
27:17
all of the deficit all of this is happening to them and they're able to overcome it in some way,
27:24
that sort of empowered them so I like to make it sort of.
27:28
I don't know if it has happened, but I like to think in my head that at least
27:32
one person has read my book, seen this character and gone, wow, they can do that.
27:38
So can I, I am going to be okay.
27:42
And that's both the inspiration, the responsibility, but the possibility that,
27:48
had a piece of literature goes, I'm going to take a break.
27:51
I want to come back and talk about promotion and selling basically what you do and how you find that.
27:59
So today I'm speaking to the author Dylan Miller from SEAL and he published
28:04
the book The Friends in 2025. We've just been talking about that.
28:08
We'll come back and talk about other things after this.
28:12
I often think of poets and writers today being almost more performance artists in a way because.
28:21
It's a little bit ironic that in a very digital way when people can connect very transgend...
28:28
Very remotely okay that actually people do like,
28:33
also little audiences little moments that that are special
28:39
and i think what's happened i think what's happened in literature world is that
28:44
writers and poets have had to not just do the creative writing side but also
28:49
almost become performance artists in a way,
28:52
and maybe they always were and we and but but have you had to do more of that
28:58
and how have you found doing that in order to promote the book The Friends?
29:04
I mean of course people know me as Dylan Miller writer but while doing all of my actual book
29:10
I had to become my own editor as well as getting you know
29:14
friends and people who know what they're looking for I had to become my own
29:17
editor for the book I've had to become my own promoter I've had to become a
29:21
social media manager for all of my page
29:24
I've become an events manager when I've held you know the launch for that,
29:29
and some of my community poetry events where I've also had the book playing some sort of part in it,
29:34
that basically I've taken on the sort of job, the sort of team that a while
29:39
ago you would have had an actual team bought for.
29:43
Nowadays you just sort of you can't and especially being a small author I know
29:48
that there are other people out here that will feel the same of,
29:52
you just you don't have the money to be able to do it nowadays to have that
29:56
team and so there is that sort of weird expectation of right you've written
30:01
this book you're able to do the creative side,
30:05
now here's all of the stuff that you're not got to know how to do, good luck.
30:09
Just sort of take it from there, you know, whether it be trying to organize
30:14
some sort of event pit altogether, whether it be trying to, you know,
30:19
run a social media page, which,
30:21
for those of you who don't know me, I am not the most online socially.
30:26
I'm more of an in-person speaker. And so to try and organize all of that is
30:31
a little bit mind-blowing.
30:33
Trying to work out how do I promote something bearing in mind that of course
30:38
little 17 year old me had no clue how to you know promote anything you know,
30:45
and so to be able to then have to look into that to have to do research you
30:51
know I owe a lot to Altrincham HQ of his little blogs that he writes of,
30:57
you know finding different ways of how he suggests businesses to promote themselves,
31:02
and I take that and go right I'll alter that a bit and I then go and sort of
31:07
do that with my book instead or you know my poems my events that I'm doing stuff like that.
31:13
Well it's funny you mentioned the business because my son was in a band up until
31:18
recently my daughter's an artist and with both of those because you've got to manage your whole.
31:26
Universe of things you actually build skills entrepreneurial skills commercial
31:31
skills publishing skills promoting skills that makes you an all-rounded person in many ways,
31:39
and i often find that one of the benefits of that is that even if the thing that you primarily,
31:46
love and want to be doing doesn't come off you've built up another portfolio
31:51
of things that are very transferable into many other areas.
31:55
I mean, yeah, I've had a particularly surreal moment quite recently, actually.
32:00
I've been nominated for an Alteringham and Sale Chamber of Commerce Business
32:04
Award for all of my community work that I've done. And it's like,
32:09
if you go back even like five years ago, would a writer have been considered a business?
32:15
Because of the amount of stuff you're expected to pick up nowadays being a creative
32:20
whether that being like some sort of band whether you're an artist whether you're a performer,
32:26
whatever sort of creative you are you're expected to be able to pick up the
32:31
sort of the business side of all of that,
32:35
and so yeah it's quite surreal then going wow because I've took on all of this
32:42
as well as doing you know what the likes of older writers that you've read about,
32:48
that they would have been doing,
32:51
that you've sort of you've got the extra.
32:55
Expectations and that's now
32:57
built up to them being able to have creatives appearing in business awards,
33:02
and it's like the boundaries have been broken and at the moment i'm quite happy
33:07
with that but i'm intrigued to see how it's going to go in the future as well
33:10
of how far are we going Are we going to push it?
33:12
Are we going to see writers having shops on the high street?
33:15
Are you going to see, especially with the rise of Amazon and all of that,
33:20
that are massively affecting local businesses?
33:23
How is that going to then play out for creatives as well that may use those
33:27
local businesses to sell their stuff?
33:29
Are we going to see, you know, all of a sudden artists having their own shops on the high street?
33:36
Well, I think we're in a very interesting point in the whole media
33:40
world, because while people can self-publish, whether it be books,
33:47
whether it be paintings, whether it be music, whether it be podcasts.
33:54
It does seem to me like the channels that those,
33:58
media areas work in still have a gate that doesn't get opened until certain
34:05
powerful organizations decide to open it does that make sense,
34:10
and and and i i wonder whether we'll ever,
34:14
you have to have a lot of personal drive and,
34:19
some some other abilities to keep going until you either hit that gate and they bring you in,
34:27
or you decide i'm gonna stop or i i'm happy where i am i'm happy being outside
34:32
of that gate if that's if that makes sense,
34:35
i mean i feel like nowadays that gate's been shifted quite a bit of the fact
34:40
of i know of quite a few of my friends who are amazingly talented at like art, singing all of that,
34:48
but they've just, they've not been able to do anything with it because they've not had anyone there.
34:53
I'm very lucky in the fact of doing the Poetry Trail and the Bookshop competition,
35:00
both so close, that Stanley Square were able to sort of notice me and go,
35:06
you're good at poems and were able to then introduce me to their Corridor Gallery.
35:11
And from there, I was able to flourish that little bit more.
35:14
But of course, if I didn't have those opportunities, then how far would I have
35:19
been able to go? Like I've recently hit the milestone of 300 followers on my Facebook.
35:25
Would I have been able to get to that higher number if I hadn't have had the
35:31
likes of them or Cell Festival bringing me on to do the poetry trail with the
35:36
wonderful Shine and Beef Butterfly books?
35:38
Would I have been able to have gotten that far?
35:42
And then the thing i find which is i think quite unique to media and the creative sector,
35:48
is that whereas if you're in a profession like a doctor lawyer whatever there's
35:54
there's a natural stairway or ladder where you've got different levels and you
36:00
sort of know where you are based on that,
36:03
the whole media creative space it's more like snakes and ladders there there's
36:07
there's you You don't know where you should be by when, and,
36:13
you don't necessarily have somebody telling you, you're okay,
36:16
you're on track, you're doing all right.
36:19
It's a whole different mind game, I find, Dylan.
36:22
I mean, I would say that there's a lot more snakes than ladders as well.
36:27
It's a lot more easier to sort of go, right, I'm doing amazing.
36:30
I'm doing amazing. Oh, dear, I've now got nothing else to do.
36:34
Because, of course, you're a creative. And so once you've written that story
36:39
and sent it out that's been sat there, you've written all of those poems and
36:42
you've sent them out, that's it. You now have an empty bank that you're then
36:47
needing to create more for.
36:49
And so of course if you sort of let those go out too quickly,
36:54
then you're gonna fall down that metaphorical snake of you've now got nothing else to do,
37:00
you're getting you know radio silence if you'll forgive the pun that you've
37:05
then got sort of nothing else to post but on the other hand if you're holding them back and you know,
37:13
not sharing them as quick as you should be and getting them out enough then eventually people go,
37:19
well if he's not supplying for us then why should we stay for his creative side
37:24
why shouldn't we go somewhere else.
37:26
Like why don't we start reading a different author you know if he's not giving
37:31
us poems let's jump to a different poet,
37:34
and so there's sort of that expectation of you need to know when to do stuff
37:39
to be able to even hop one space on the board,
37:44
and i i i wonder where are the mentors where are the the guiders,
37:51
for young creatives like you who you could go to just say look you know,
37:58
should i do xyz should i take a break you know because the fact is you're sometimes a break can be,
38:05
good for you because it allows you to calibrate and maybe go in a different
38:09
direction, but sometimes you might be thinking, ride that train,
38:13
keep going, ride that train.
38:14
You know, I have been, and that's discipline, but you need guidance, I think.
38:21
I mean, they're just, they're not there nowadays, of course,
38:24
with the rise of, you know, AI and all of that, with the fact of you'll have
38:29
AI writing stories and, you know, creating pics and all of that,
38:33
that all of the people who would usually be there to give guidance,
38:38
they just aren't easily as accessible because you don't know whether when you're
38:42
speaking to an author, whether they are an author, or whether they're one of
38:46
these that have written their story like 90%
38:50
AI and have added one word.
38:51
In by themselves that you don't quite know who you're speaking to and of course going from there,
38:59
you then don't know whether they're gonna be sending you down the right pathway
39:03
or whether they're sending you down a path of destruction as it were.
39:09
I found it a lot more easier with the likes of the bookshop competition i've
39:14
been able to have the person who ran that sort of give me a few hints and tips to get started,
39:22
but of course at the end of the day they're just a person who works in a bookshop
39:26
they don't know how to get writing massively out they just know how to start up a writing career,
39:34
and it's the same with like teachers you know English teachers of they'll have a vague idea,
39:41
but say you're stuck at a certain point and go where do I go now I've got like
39:47
five different pathways I can go down which one do I do,
39:51
then of course even they won't know that you just you don't have that option
39:55
anymore it makes absolute sense okay we're gonna wrap up i'll take a break,
40:00
and i come back i want to talk to you a little bit about what next um so the
40:05
you know friends has been out a year what are you working on what's the what's
40:09
the plan so today i'm delighted to speak in with dylan miller,
40:13
i feel like we could do a whole podcast on this this whole topic is i find it
40:18
intriguing to get into and hear.
40:21
What people who are in positions like you, whether they're writers,
40:24
painters, musicians, what you're thinking about.
40:27
So we'll take a break and we'll wrap up with Dylan in a couple of minutes time.
40:31
My guest today on the Lely Lunch Show, the lunch discussion has been with the
40:36
writer and the poet Dylan Miller from SAIL and he published his first book,
40:41
The Friends, last year and it's out now.
40:44
It's out digitally, is it, as well as in hardback?
40:49
Yep you've got pretty much all forms you can imagine you can get on kindle you've
40:54
got it on paperback form you've got it in hardback form
40:58
basically any way that you would like to have a book apart from audiobook which
41:03
i've still not figured out how on earth i can do that,
41:06
i'll talk to you about that offer so.
41:10
Having gone through that that big milestone of being published for the first
41:15
time what's what I have you enjoyed the promotion of that and what is that involved I.
41:24
I mean, of course, I've enjoyed the promotion of it. I've gotten free cake along
41:27
the way that, you know, having the likes of big events and stuff like my book
41:33
launch that I'd held a couple of months after it was actually out there.
41:37
Of course, it's an excuse to have a party and bring the community together.
41:41
And anyone that knows me knows that I am massively community heavy.
41:45
Like that is what I am focused on the most. and so if I've got a chance to do
41:51
something for the community and to have my book involved somehow,
41:57
then that is perfect for me and so I've found little ways whether it be like,
42:02
I've been taking it on different trips where I've gone so whether it be when
42:06
I was exploring different unis to go to whether it be on holiday I took it off
42:11
to a cricket match a year ago and it's like I can bring them to these different
42:15
places these different events,
42:17
and literally just a little mini picture of me holding this book up and it's
42:21
like i've accessed a whole new section of the community here that might have
42:26
some sort of interest in the book,
42:28
and what i what i found about that i mean i i found it to a lesser degree with
42:33
um with the radio is i'm constantly thinking about it i never really stop you know and.
42:40
It it sometimes you can be a right bore i think with some people they said they
42:45
are with me but i love the fact that i i i can be thinking i can be walking
42:50
down with my dog and suddenly something will come into my mind and i'm like
42:53
get that down especially when i've got.
42:56
Literally no memory in the short term and so i get it down and i i love the
43:00
fact that i can generate something on the show based on that little thought
43:04
on a walk you never seem to switch off.
43:07
Do you find that that's a kiss with you?
43:10
I mean, the irony of you saying that is that about an hour before I've gone
43:14
on to do the interview with you, I was going for a little walk along the canal,
43:19
spotted some geese and went, real, there's a poem sat there.
43:22
And I will just do stuff like that. I will walk along and whether it be I see
43:28
a place and go, that looks way too happy I could have some sort of,
43:33
you know, fictional murder take place in somewhere like that.
43:37
Or whether it be, you know, that looks like a nice place. I can write a little
43:42
mini story about someone working there or something like that.
43:46
I can write about that bird that exists there. I can write about the little
43:51
squirrel that's just ran past me on my walk.
43:54
It's one of those where I genuinely cannot stop. Sometimes it does get annoying
43:58
for me as well as the poor people that I then go, look at that thing.
44:02
That would make a really good idea that I'm there like, I'm sat on a train.
44:08
I'm on a train journey. I don't need to look at that person who's clicking too loud on their keyboard.
44:13
I don't need to overhear that conversation. I don't need to look at your clothing
44:18
choice and go, that would be a perfect clothing choice for this character that I'm writing.
44:23
I don't need to start analyzing people. And it's like, how do I turn it off?
44:28
But of course, I quite like it at the same time of so far as if I hadn't seen
44:33
that person wearing that particular, you know, style of shirt,
44:37
then I wouldn't have gone,
44:39
that's that person's style of shirt in my book, you know, that's that person's
44:44
sort of personality in my story.
44:47
So if you're sitting opposite Dylan Miller on a train, you could well end up
44:51
featuring as a, as the villain or the hero in one of his books.
44:57
I see, Yeah, I love that because I just think that's like, that's like when
45:01
you were a kid and playing Lego and you could build anything, you know, and,
45:06
and, and that's where the great thing about literature is, and the creatives
45:11
is you can take that anywhere. The big question though is.
45:14
Is it going to be commercial and will it sell? Because ultimately that's what
45:18
you're about, isn't it? I wouldn't say that as awful as it sounds and as much
45:23
as everyone I know hates me for saying that I'm not in it for the money.
45:28
I should be and, you know, trying to start up uni and trying to gather some
45:32
sort of money to, you know, be alive, essentially.
45:36
I don't think about the money first. I think about the people first.
45:40
And so, like, on my social media pages, my Facebook and Instagram,
45:44
I just put poems on there for free for people to read, make no money off of it.
45:50
They're just out there then. And it's like if someone's read a poem and gone,
45:54
wow, that is, you know, particularly poignant or, oh, my word,
46:00
that is the best thing I've read today.
46:02
You know, that has made me proper belly laugh when I felt awful.
46:06
Or, you know, I've never thought about life from that perspective before.
46:10
Something like that if it's made someone stop and go wow that's made me think in some sort of new way.
46:18
Then that's satisfactory enough for me. I don't need to have a pound sign attached
46:23
to it, just merely to see.
46:25
And I've done it at events as well, where I've been at markets and stuff,
46:29
selling my poems and books, and someone stopped to just read one.
46:34
Of course, usually, if it's someone who's more money-based, they'd be like,
46:38
you know, don't stop and read all of the merchandise, come and buy something.
46:42
But I will happily have people stop, read all of the stuff that I've got there,
46:47
have a little conversation with me,
46:49
and then go off smiling because I know that that sort of that's impacted them
46:54
in some way that's possibly made their day that little bit better and of course
46:59
you never know what someone's going through
47:01
and so if it is just that little moment of,
47:05
that is very good that has cheered me up or I've been having a bad day and that's
47:11
shown me that there is actually some form of light out there,
47:15
then that makes me feel like I have earned something.
47:18
Like I don't need to have the money. I've got the joy.
47:23
And that's a very special, that's a gift, and that's quite something to have.
47:27
So what next for you? You're 18, I heard you mention university.
47:33
What is your plan now? Right, yet again, people tend to be a bit shocked when
47:38
I say this, but I'm going off to Manchester Metropolitan University to study
47:43
early years teaching, something completely away from writing, not related at all,
47:48
because I'd realised my passion for that before I'd realised my passion for writing.
47:53
And I have just as much passion for each and so I feel like it's fair to let
47:58
the one that I thought of first carry on flourish And I feel like I've accomplished enough with my writing,
48:05
that it doesn't need to have a dedicated you know course to push it forward,
48:10
And so you know I've got the ability to push forward my career wise with teaching
48:17
and finally get to where I want to be there,
48:19
while also focusing on my writing.
48:23
Because, I mean, I've recently started up a series of community poetry events
48:28
that I've done, the first one in Stratford about a month ago now.
48:33
You had Andrew Alan Matthews on here a couple of weeks after and he brought it up. Yes.
48:39
Of course, I've started that off. And so to be able to hopefully,
48:44
fingers crossed, do another couple of places through poetry events and to have
48:50
those exhibitions there,
48:52
while equally pushing forward this teaching career that I'm wanting to have.
48:57
Hopefully it carries on working. It's worked so far.
49:01
And so being able to juggle multiple lives, I guess.
49:06
Well you're young enough and take advantage while while you can it's been a
49:11
delight speaking i really enjoyed it or well over time but for people who want to follow you um.
49:18
Your your website is dylan miller writer dot wordpress.com and i guess you are
49:23
you dylan miller writer in all your socials,
49:27
yep so you can find me on facebook dylan miller dash writer on instagram at
49:33
DylanMillerWriter, all one word, no dash in there.
49:37
Of course, on my WordPress website, you can find me on YouTube.
49:43
That's just DylanMiller-Writer, again, all separate words, although I've not
49:48
updated that for a while.
49:50
But yeah, you've got those where if you want to read about my work,
49:54
see what's coming up soon, read my work itself, not just about it.
50:00
All of that is all on all of them.
50:02
And so nice, easy, accessible. So Dylan Miller, writer, can I ask,
50:07
should we expect a new book coming from you anytime soon?
50:11
How to say this without giving spoilers? Right, so...
50:17
I tend not to go too far in what I say in case I go, uh-oh, this is now unpublishable for whatever reason.
50:26
But I have recently had an idea that without meaning to, you know.
50:33
Mess it all up and to make this initially amazing plan fail,
50:38
that I came up with the idea a month ago and I'm already about a quarter of
50:43
where I want to be way through it.
50:46
So, possibly, it all depends on, you know, what time I've got,
50:50
whether it carries on being this successful, all depends on whether the interest
50:55
is still there, whether, you know, I've actually got the money to do it as well.
51:00
Of course, publishing a book, even if you self-publish, still has a lot of cost attached to it.
51:06
And so it's all sort of, I wouldn't say it's as much of a big question mark
51:11
as it was after The Threatens, but I'd say it's more, it's more of an interrobang.
51:17
For those of you who don't know, an interrobang is that question mark with a
51:21
little mini exclamation mark in the middle.
51:23
That it's still a bit of a question, but it's still got a bit of an excitement attached to it.
51:29
And there's still that sort of maybe. be,
51:33
well Dylan that sounds like a cliffhanger for everyone a good place to end it
51:37
it's been a pleasure speaking to you and good luck with the rest of the friends and,
51:43
I hope that the next book comes very very soon thank you very much indeed thank
51:49
you so much Rod this is the Late Late Lunch Show with Rod Maxwell.