Latest / Kenny Wallace Media / The Rise of Roush Racing & No More Roval | Mark Martin Archive #4

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The Rise of Roush Racing & No More Roval | Mark Martin Archive #4 · Kenny Wallace Media

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Hey everybody, I'm Matt Martin, and we're back again with the
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Mark Martin Archive Podcast. I got Dad here.
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He's out in the California desert.
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I hope you're enjoying it out there.
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There's 5 inches of snow outside here in Arkansas.
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Yeah, I'm, I'm glad I missed that for sure.
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It's it's pretty nice out here. Yeah, it's it's cold here.
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So well, man, I think we've got a cool episode today for
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everybody. There's a couple things that
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happened recently that gave me the idea to do this show Today.
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We're going to talk about what I call the rise of Ralph racing in
0:40
1996 to 2004. A couple things that happened
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was number 1, you got to hang out with Jack Roush at Barrett
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Jackson, which I bet that was cool.
0:52
Was it cool catching up with him some?
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Oh man, we had the best time. We got together 2 days so we
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we've spent a lot of time together, told a lot of great
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stories. Even Craig Jackson set in and
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and was amazed by some of the old stories that we were were
1:09
telling. It was such a good time.
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That's so cool you guys got to catch up cuz I know it had been
1:15
a while. Yeah, yeah.
1:19
Well, another thing that happened was Kenny had Jeff
1:22
Burton on for a Kenny conversation.
1:25
And the other thing was is at Kurt Bush's Hall of Fame
1:30
induction, he was interviewed and he mentioned in his
1:34
interview that there was no place like, you know, early
1:39
2000s Roush Racing. And so just all those things,
1:44
you know, happening together near the same time.
1:47
And, you know, gave me the idea for this episode.
1:49
So I wanted to kind of before we dive into 1996 and the important
1:54
things that that happened that year, I wanted to kind of give
1:58
the the back story in the background of Ralph Racing as an
2:01
organization. So in NASCAR that is so in 1988,
2:08
that's the first full season of Ralph Racing and it was a single
2:14
car team from 88 to 1991 and then they added the 16 team in
2:22
1992. But from 1988 to 1995, you, Dad,
2:29
you earned 18 Cup wins and then 13 Bush wins when Roush showed
2:35
it starting in 1993 on to 1995 S.
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In other words, you captured every single Roush Racing win at
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that time. But you know, with that said,
2:50
obviously you, Steve Mill and all the guys there in Liberty,
2:55
you guys had put together a winning formula.
2:59
What do you think Jack wanted to do?
3:03
What what was his intention on starting the third team, the 99
3:07
team, and basing it at Mooresville?
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What was his goal, do you think? So Exide came to him after the
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Dover race and told him that they wanted, wanted him to put a
3:24
car out there, sponsor a car for next, for the next season.
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And he could, he could pick the driver and, and you know, and
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the whole thing. So, you know, it was just a, it
3:39
was a great opportunity for the organization to expand with
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backing with, with top notch backing from Exide.
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And he had, he kind of told this story while we're at Barrett
3:51
Jackson, which was pretty interesting, But the motivation
3:56
was to expand. You know he had done 2 car teams
4:02
or multi car teams all the way back into his drag racing days.
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You know all this road racing stuff was a minimum of two cars.
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And so he understood how you know if you could get double the
4:17
sponsorship you could you know you could do a lot more with the
4:21
backing and you know it it just have a bigger, stronger deeper
4:27
organization. So as you know, I guess he asked
4:33
Ward to drive it and Ward was had just signed with Bill Davis
4:40
or re signed with Bill Davis or something or other.
4:43
And he you know, he told Jeff, he said, you know, when Jeff
4:50
said, well, I'll call him. Yeah.
4:53
So it was really, it was really a a a great deal Jeff.
4:57
You know, I'd I'd known both both Ward and Jeff from the the
5:01
Bush series and I'd actually even help Jeff with it.
5:05
He was driving the a car the year before Cup car and for
5:10
their Stavola brothers. And I actually got in his car at
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Rockingham and drove it and gave him some feedback on it.
5:15
So, you know, we go way back before even we became teammates.
5:21
Right. Well, I think this, you know,
5:24
other than hiring you, I think this is the best decision Jack
5:28
ever made is in NASCAR as far as starting this third team as I
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think what we talked about today will show.
5:36
But you know, all this is happening in 1995, all these
5:40
events. And I wanted to ask you because
5:43
Jeff Burton tells a funny story. Do you remember, you know,
5:48
initially there being tensions between, you know, the 2 Liberty
5:53
teams, the sixth team and the 16 team and the 99 team, you know,
5:58
because Jeff tells that funny story about going to the
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Christmas party. You're flying the airplane and
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he's in the back with Steve Mill and then Comstock, who's the
6:11
crew chief of the 16 team. And they just, they tell him
6:15
that they're not helping him and it's not about him.
6:18
It's just like this is because Jack's trying to piss us off.
6:22
Yes, there was. I remember vividly do.
6:25
You remember that? Well, I do, I remember it real
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well. So part of the reasoning for the
6:34
shop to be in Liberty instead of Charlotte was to be able to keep
6:41
our secrets in in in house better.
6:45
In other words, the guys that work there couldn't just close
6:49
their toolbox up and push it down the street 1/2 a block to
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another team and, you know, and, and all your secrets get out.
6:57
So we were, you know, with that team being in Mooresville, my
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team, our teams felt like that, you know, everything that we
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were doing that somebody else didn't know about was going to
7:12
get out. So that was that was part of the
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reasoning, you know, and that that dissipated overtime.
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But yeah, initially it wasn't met with the open arms, just
7:25
like the 16 wasn't met with open arms.
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I did not like the idea, you know, of, of adding a second
7:33
team as especially after just winning one race in 1991, it
7:38
just didn't feel like we were ready.
7:42
Yes. So going into 1996, all three of
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the teams had had some good runs that season, but there were no
7:53
wins across all three teams. You know, do you what do you
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think happened there? I mean, why do you think you
8:00
guys struggled to get, you know, into Victory Lane that year?
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And you know, like I said, you guys had some good runs.
8:08
I mean, Jeff Burton even for briefly he led the points for
8:13
after. I forgot it was early in the
8:14
season, but it was one race. But then he missed.
8:17
I think it was North Wilkesboro. I think he missed Atlanta,
8:22
Atlanta, OK, Atlanta. So it was early in the season
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and he wasn't in the points yet. You know, they didn't work,
8:28
counting 96 points until after, like Rock, I don't know, after
8:33
Atlanta something. So he missed, he missed the
8:37
ride. He had me come over and drive
8:38
his car because it wasn't fast, you know, enough.
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And I drove it and couldn't help him any with it really.
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And he missed the race. And Jack comes up, you know,
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says I'm so sorry, I'll take all the heat.
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I'll handle the sponsor. Don't worry about anything.
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It's all good. And and he said I didn't give
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you what you need. And Jeff said you gave me
9:04
everything I asked for. He said, yeah, but I didn't give
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you what you need. That's my that's my Jack Roush
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right there. So that was pretty cool.
9:14
But yeah. So as far as the six goes, we
9:18
were fast enough to win a lot of races that were very frustrating
9:22
year. You know, it seemed like every
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race that we would be really good at someone was just better.
9:30
And it just it was one of those years where they just we weren't
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consistently fast enough, you know, to to win a race and on on
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a good day. We didn't get lucky.
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Well, you know, even though you guys, you know, all three teams
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kind of had a a tough year that that season, the next season in
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97, I mean, you guys really came out swinging.
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I mean, you won four races. You were in contention for the
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championship all year, all year long.
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And Jeff Burton won his first three Cup races and he became
10:06
the second driver to win a a Cup race for for Jack.
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What do you remember about Jeff's first win?
10:15
Do you have any remembrance from that?
10:17
Yeah, I do. I do.
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It was Texas and I was leaving the race and on the restart he
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was a lap down and he was starting on the inside of me.
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And on the restart, you know, because back then they lined up
10:35
the lap cars on the inside row. He was in front.
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So we took off and he got ahead of me and we ran a few laps
10:43
there and my motor blew up. So I headed for the for the
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airport and flew from Texas to Daytona.
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And I got out of the got out of the plane and Arlene said Jeff
10:59
Burton won the race. And so that's that's my memory
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of it. So I wasn't at the track, but
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obviously really happy for him. He he brought so much to to me
11:14
and to the six car and to the team and their organization.
11:18
It was, it turned out to be a genius move by Jack to, to do it
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differently than we were doing, you know, things in, in Liberty.
11:27
And it really made the whole organization a lot stronger.
11:31
Did it dawn on you at the time that he was, you know, the
11:35
second driver now to win a Cup race for Ralph Racing?
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I mean, did you think about that at the time or?
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No, I, I it didn't even occur to me.
11:45
I kind of had blinders on. Well, you know, you talk about
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Jeff really bringing a lot to the six car and that kind of
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segues into the next season. And my next question is in 1998
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you guys move the six team moves to Mooresville into the shop
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with a 99 car and then you have your best season ever.
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You win 7 races and have over 1700 laps LED in 1998.
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My question is, is how much did that move influence the success
12:25
of that season? I mean, did did the 99 team
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really bring a lot to the six car and allow you guys to have
12:34
such a successful season? They had, you know, that their
12:38
organization was in in shop was all established there in
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Mooresville and Bobby Hudson was in charge of the the surface
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plate, the body hanging, which was real important to Jeff and I
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both, you know, because we thought we could pretty much
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handle the chassis stuff, but we had to have, you know, really,
13:01
really good people doing bodies and and at the time wind
13:05
tunneling and stuff like that. So the cars.
13:09
So it was all new car builds for me, you know, like Liberty and
13:14
and Troy Martin and those guys that always done the cars since
13:19
the beginning. And now it was Bobby Hudson's
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Surface Plate and a whole new group that were furnishing cars
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to Jimmy Finnig and I. And they were built just like
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Jeff's. Ours were built together.
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If I had suggestions that that might be better, they were
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incorporated into Jeff's cars. And if Jeff, you know, had
13:43
suggestions or they had anything, those things were
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incorporated in ours. So we had pretty much 6th sister
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cars. We're in the same shop.
13:55
We had really good cooperation, you know, between the six and
14:02
the 99 car and and you know, we were, you know, elbow to elbows
14:08
that are in that shop. So it was a it was a really,
14:11
really good year. Good year for Jeff, great year
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for us. Everything just hit magic.
14:19
That was the first year for the Taurus body and we really hit,
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we hit a home run on the on the downforce side of things and
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we're able to really have a dominant year.
14:34
Was there anything that you recall that they did like
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drastically different there in that shop compared to how y'all
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were doing things in Liberty? No, no, not really.
14:47
You know, the cars. I mean, if you want to say the
14:53
difference between 97 and 98, you know, cars coming out a
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different shop, there's there was no difference.
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It was the best stuff that we knew how to build.
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And, you know, it's very psych. You know, you cycle from not
15:11
winning in 96 to be in a championship contender in 97, to
15:16
have the best season of my career in 98.
15:20
You know, those were just a lot of that is when the stars line
15:24
up. You have to run good all the
15:27
time to get those wins. And we didn't.
15:29
We ran good a lot of the time in 96, but not all the time.
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And so the stars never lined up. But you know, there was a there
15:39
was a lot of enthusiasm in that Mooresville shop with the six
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and 99. The six was basically 100% new
15:48
team. I don't think maybe Dennis was
15:51
still with us, the truck driver, but it was Jimmy and 100% new
15:58
people on the six car. So I don't, I don't recall any
16:02
anyone coming, you know, from Liberty, you know, and, and
16:07
being on the team, I know that, you know, it was just a bunch of
16:11
young guys that were excited and they were damn good too.
16:15
Yeah. Sean.
16:16
Parker yeah, Sean, you know, and and so, so many of of those
16:21
guys, you know, somewhere along the way, you know, Jeff Paxton,
16:27
you know, as well, I mean, just every guy that was on that car
16:32
in 98 seemed to be young, fresh, new to me and and and ready to
16:39
have a lot of success, you know, that hadn't hadn't had the
16:43
opportunity to work on a a car that was that fast and that,
16:48
that solid. You said before that that team
16:51
that you had there in 98 and 99 was one of the best you ever had
16:56
in your entire NASCAR career, right?
16:59
Yes, they were just all so good and they and you know, the magic
17:06
is in the attitude and they were so excited.
17:11
You know, it was it was similar to 2009 with with those guys
17:15
that that that was an amazing super quality.
17:19
All people who had been there and done that before.
17:23
But that enthusiasm makes a lot of difference.
17:27
People don't believe that, but you know, you hear chemistry
17:30
talked about sometimes it does somehow translate into
17:35
performance. Just the attitude of the team.
17:39
And I'll I'll give you an example and I've told you this
17:41
many times. There's a lot of times in the
17:43
80s when 2 great drivers weren't winning races and you saw team
17:49
swap and both was win races. That's so crazy.
17:55
It just they just needed something to change and new, you
17:59
know, attitude, new enthusiasm and boy 98 and O nine were were
18:04
two of the the top years for enthusiasm level.
18:09
So you had your, you know, career year in 98, and then the
18:15
next season Jeff Burton has his career year.
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So in 99, he won six races and he led over 1000 laps.
18:25
And so my question is to you again, I mean, do you think the
18:28
success that you guys had on the six car translated some over to
18:34
their success the following season?
18:38
You know, I think that what I mean.
18:40
He knew everything that we were doing and of course we do
18:43
everything that they were doing, but part of it is just how the
18:47
stars line up. I I've heard Jeff say that we
18:50
kicked his ass and in 98, you know, moved in and kicked his
18:54
ass. Well, it's fun to talk like
18:56
that, but honestly, you know, it's not really the case.
19:00
And they they did, you know, they did the same to us the next
19:03
year, 99 for no, you know, expectable reason.
19:06
It's just it was, there was a lot of Jack always he hated it
19:12
too, because Jack's such an engineer.
19:14
He's all that black magic, you know?
19:18
Yeah. He never went for all that.
19:20
It always pissed him off. But I'm telling you, there's
19:23
something about just enthusiasm and momentum and the stars
19:29
lining up that that makes it all happen.
19:32
We still ran good in 99 but. Yeah.
19:35
Jeff had a career year. Well, The thing is, is, I mean,
19:38
to your point, I mean, if you watch the races from 98, I mean,
19:42
yes, you won seven races. But if you watch a lot of them,
19:45
Jeff's run right up there with you, you know, and it's just a
19:48
couple things are different. I mean, he might win more races,
19:51
you know, and the same is true with you in 1999.
19:55
I mean, you know, he won six races, but you're up at the
19:58
front, you know, most of the time and, you know, it doesn't
20:01
take much. And then you win more races than
20:03
you did. So there's a lot of truth to
20:06
that, that black magic. So so going into 2000.
20:13
That's Matt Kansas, first full time season in the 17 car.
20:18
You guys had hired him earlier, but that's his his first full
20:23
season and cup. So he scores his first win at
20:28
the Coke 600 that year and becomes a third driver to win a
20:31
cup race for Ralph Racing. Now you played a role in making
20:37
all that happen. I mean, can you tell us, you
20:39
know, about the process of discovering Matt and then, you
20:43
know, talking to Jack about hiring them?
20:46
Well, I think everybody knows that my foundation for my Cup
20:50
career was built in Wisconsin, and the Wisconsin racers had a
20:55
lot to do with shaping, you know, the racer that I was.
21:00
And so I'm down there in NASCAR racing and I'm I'm reading about
21:04
this. Matt Kenseth winning here,
21:08
winning there. I'm looking at the cars.
21:10
They're not the same car. They're owned by different
21:12
people or whatever. And I'm like, this kid knows his
21:17
stuff and remind me of myself. You know, he knows.
21:22
He In other words, he doesn't rely on the on Howie Leto, who
21:26
was the greatest crew chief up there ever to make his cars go
21:31
fast. He knew how to do it.
21:32
He knew how to make his cars go fast.
21:34
And I was attracted to that always.
21:37
So he and Robbie Riser come for the Bush race at Salladega and I
21:44
meet him for the first time. And so after the drivers at at I
21:49
met met him at the drivers meeting.
21:51
And so after the drivers meeting, we sit there on the
21:53
bleachers and talk for about 2020 thirty minutes.
21:58
And I just really liked him. And I could tell, you know, a
22:01
100% this is a dude that reminds me of a career, you know, that
22:07
I've had. He's a good dude, smart guy.
22:12
He was. It was just the right thing.
22:13
So I went straight to the hauler to get dressed for the race, the
22:19
Bush race, and Jack was there. And I said, Jack, I know you
22:24
don't have a place for him, but you have to sign this guy.
22:27
You've got to sign it. You've got to sign him.
22:29
You have to. And you know, Jack never, I'm
22:36
not going to say that that didn't always listen to what I
22:39
said. And that's a that was a big,
22:41
bold move to sign him to a contract when he didn't have
22:46
room, you know, for him in the stable.
22:49
So but they he did. And, you know, Matt Kenseth
22:54
never, ever, ever let me down. He was everything that I thought
22:59
he was and a great teammate and a great friend to me.
23:06
So the interesting thing to me too is, you know, Matt, you and
23:11
Jeff, you know what one of the things you guys all have in
23:14
common is y'all are car guys and y'all are also the, the first
23:18
three that saw success there at, at Roush.
23:23
You know, I think that certainly Jack giving you guys the ability
23:28
to determine more how your cars are set up and, and how they
23:33
are, you know, I, I think that definitely helped you guys, you
23:37
know, achieve success there. I mean, would you agree with
23:39
that? I mean, I just, it's hard to me
23:42
believe it to believe at least in the earlier years that you
23:46
could have put somebody that was just, you know, like a Tim
23:48
Richmond or somebody like that that's a really good driver but
23:51
doesn't know much about cars. To me it seemed like the early
23:56
route drivers, they had to be good drivers but they also know
23:59
it had to know how to set up their car.
24:01
Yes, that's absolutely true. In in it, it's really because,
24:10
you know, Jack, let us determine our own fate.
24:18
Robbie Reiser and Matt Kansas, you know, they were the
24:22
architect of their cars. Jeff Burton, I've said over and
24:26
over again, was a absolute master architect of his cars and
24:32
team. And I had always had my finger
24:36
on the pulse as well. I think some of the lack of
24:43
super great performance from Johnny Benson or or or Chad
24:49
Little or Ted Musgrave LePage and especially while dollingback
24:56
was that they didn't have that. They couldn't come in and say
25:01
put this, this, this, this in that car and then go drive it
25:05
and then come in and say, you know, make this change to it.
25:09
Nothing against their, they were all incredible drivers.
25:13
Yeah, they just needed to Ray Everham or something.
25:16
They, yes, they, they needed someone, you know, that could
25:19
really listen to them and and make magic and we weren't able
25:27
to give those guys that. And where Robbie Riser was able,
25:33
Robbie and Matt were able to do that and Jack let them, you
25:38
know, I think it helped when Jeff really broke the ice
25:41
because, you know, Jeff was successful.
25:47
And so OK, then what we've done with Mark is successful.
25:50
What we were doing with Jeff is successful.
25:53
We're going to let Matt and Robbie determine their, you
25:57
know, destiny here. And so that really worked.
26:00
And then, you know, of course, then you know, we come along
26:04
with some incredible drivers. Like when you put Kurt Busch in,
26:10
you know, even a decent race car, he's going to win.
26:14
And, and the same thing with Biffle, you know, I mean, he was
26:18
so incredibly talented as well. So those guys were able to do
26:25
more because of the amazing talent.
26:29
Of course then Kurt winds up with Jimmy Fennig and which was
26:32
perfect combination so. I'm glad you mentioned Kurt cuz
26:37
that we're getting into 2001. So 2001 is Kurt's rookie season
26:43
in the 97 car. He captures one pole, but other
26:47
than that he doesn't, you know, run that good the rest of the
26:50
season. And also you and Matt Kenseth go
26:53
winless and don't do that well either.
26:57
It's kind of almost a repeat of 1996.
27:01
When I was doing the notes for the show, I realized that.
27:04
With that said, though, Jeff Burton, even though he didn't
27:06
get off to a good start, he did win 2 races.
27:09
He won the Coke 600 in Phoenix. But do you recall like any
27:15
particular reason why all the Roush team seemed to struggle
27:18
that year? Because all you guys did.
27:20
Somehow or another we got behind somewhere.
27:25
You know, it it I don't know where we got behind, but or it
27:30
was probably more than one area. We got a little bit behind
27:33
probably arrow wise, maybe possibly power wise, I don't
27:38
know for sure. I don't remember exactly at that
27:42
that time, but and we had to have been off a little bit on
27:45
our chassis stuff. You know, we just, we just as a
27:49
group weren't making the speed that that we needed to.
27:54
Well, then this is another repeat of 97.
27:57
Then in 2002, you guys, you know, come out swinging again,
28:01
so you and Kurt switch teams in the offseason.
28:05
So in 2002 you go in with Kurt's team and Kurt goes in with your
28:10
team and he wins his first four Cup races with your old crew
28:17
chief Jimmy Fennick. And my old.
28:18
Cars. Yeah, and your old cars.
28:22
And so he becomes the 4th driver to win a Cup race for Roush
28:25
Racing. And then Matt Kenseth, he wins 5
28:28
races and then you win the Coke 600 and you're in contention for
28:33
the championship that year. Oh and by the way, with your
28:37
Coke 600 win that Roush Racing has now won four consecutive
28:42
Coca-Cola 6 hundreds. So although your your career is
28:48
starting to wane some, Ralph Racing is becoming a powerhouse.
28:53
It's obvious at this point. Do you recall what the energy
28:57
was like at the organization around this time?
29:02
Well, the in energy, I, I recall our group, the energy was really
29:09
good in 2002 because I had, you know, all these young guys.
29:14
This is when you know, we're, we're, we're now at 5 teams and
29:19
there's a lot of pressure to have all the cars built the
29:23
same. And Matt Kenseth likes the
29:27
opposite in arrow than than I do.
29:30
And we go through, we go through a struggle there because I, I
29:36
don't like the arrow that Matt likes and he he doesn't like
29:40
mine and he's having success with his and I try his and I
29:43
don't like it. I want mine.
29:44
And, and so we struggle through that for, you know, a year or
29:50
two there where we're just, you know, we're just not the inner
29:55
energy was good and we ran good and we really should have won
29:59
the championship that year. We just wait.
30:03
We broke one too many times. I mean, we were in position to
30:09
win it. And I, you know, I thought it
30:12
was, we just couldn't fall out and and, you know, from here on.
30:17
And sure enough, we fell out and that cost us.
30:20
But yeah, wait, I mean, you know, we just then, I don't
30:26
know, I don't remember O3. I don't remember a whole lot
30:28
about that. Well, 2003 was Greg Biffle's
30:34
rookie season in the 16 car and he picked up his first career
30:37
win at the Pepsi 400 at Daytona. And so that made him the 5th
30:43
driver to win a race for Ralph Racing.
30:46
So he'd go on to have a ton of success in that 16 car.
30:52
You know, my question is, you know, that car had been around
30:55
since 1992. What did Greg bring to that car
31:00
that turned it into a a winning car?
31:05
You know is just him. Just him.
31:09
Yeah, what? He sat in the seat.
31:11
He was, he was on, he was on the level of Kurt Busch.
31:15
You know, he he and and Doug Rickard, you know, had a
31:22
championship all the way back in whatever it was 1979 or, or or
31:27
80, whatever it was with, with Dale Earnhardt.
31:30
Yeah, 8080, yeah. But after that, not such great
31:35
success. Doug was absolutely spectacular
31:40
at getting Greg what Greg needed, what he wanted in his
31:45
car. I watched it first hand, you
31:47
know, in amazement, trying to gather any, any speed out of it
31:52
that I could. But Doug was just Absolutely
31:55
Fabulous at getting Greg what he needed.
32:00
And they just, I mean, they just want him a bunch of races and
32:06
especially intermediates where I think Greg's driving talent
32:10
could really shine. And Doug getting that left
32:14
front, you know, they were always preaching got to get that
32:16
left front down. You know, I'm over, I'm over
32:19
here trying, but I'm not getting it like that.
32:21
You know, they were, they were, they were stout.
32:25
So an O3 and O 4 Ralph Racing wins Back to backup series
32:30
championships with Matt Kenseth and Kurt Busch.
32:33
So obviously, you know, this was the peak of Ralph Racing as an
32:38
organization. Do you have any like particular
32:42
memories from these two years? I mean, the, the team had come a
32:46
long way from, you know, just a handful of employees and a
32:51
single car team in 1998 or excuse me, 1988 in Liberty, You
32:57
know, and now I mean, it's on top of the NASCAR world.
33:02
Yeah, by this point, you know, I'm not young by anymore and so,
33:10
you know, I'm starting to to face the the challenge of not
33:14
being, you know, the fastest wheel man, you know, in the
33:19
shop. And so with Matt winning that
33:25
championship, when I, you know, I Co owned that car, I got
33:29
ownership in it when Jack set it up.
33:32
So I had a lot of pride because I felt like I had a hand by
33:38
bringing Matt to it and bringing a Cup championship to that that
33:43
organization. I know you can see it all over
33:46
Jack's face and I felt it a lot that he was, he was sad that it
33:52
wasn't me that brought him the first one.
33:55
But dude, we got it, you know, I wanted it for Matt.
33:59
I wanted it for Jack. I wanted it for the
34:01
organization. And I was happy, you know, I, I
34:05
didn't run good enough to win it and, you know, and, and didn't
34:11
from there on going forward in the sixth car, you know, I
34:14
didn't run good enough to be a contender for one.
34:17
We tried hard. Jack tried everything he had to
34:22
get me, you know, whatever he could to put me in a position to
34:27
do it. But I just, I mean, we could run
34:29
good. But, you know, we, we have
34:31
somebody's, I mean, it's, it's hard to win those championships
34:35
when you've got, you know, 36 races and every single race,
34:40
every single position, every single point matters.
34:45
Yeah. Well, I would say to, you know,
34:47
to add on to that, I mean, particularly when you're now
34:50
into your 40s and you're really starting to get past your prime
34:55
level as a driver. And you know, it's kind of
34:59
frustrating because Roush Racing, you know, like your
35:02
peaks were at two different times, your peak when they first
35:05
hired you. But at the, you know, at that
35:07
time they had so many mechanical failures and, and all these
35:12
different issues that they all these bugs that they had to get
35:15
worked out. And then once they did, you're,
35:19
you know, past your prime, you know, and so it's kind of a
35:24
frustrating deal, but you know, how was it seeing, you know,
35:29
Kurt Busch win his championship in O 4 and, you know, Jimmy
35:33
Fennig getting his championship? Well, my, you know, my
35:38
relationship with, with Jimmy Fennig is extremely warm that,
35:43
you know, we, we work. He was my crew chief in ASA in
35:47
85 and 86. We were side by side, you know,
35:53
every day and every night. I worked in the shop with him
35:57
and his brother Jeffrey every day and went racing, you know,
36:04
every, every night. And so I had a good relationship
36:08
with him. He had the opportunity at the
36:10
end of 86 to Bobby Allison wanted him to come and crew
36:14
chief the Cup car and I was thrilled for him.
36:17
And I was leaving, you know, ASA as well to go Bush racing with
36:24
the Lawmaster and and David Levenga.
36:26
So so I was happy for for Jimmy, and I was also happy that when
36:34
we made the the swap, you know, Kurt starts winning races good
36:39
on Jimmy, You know, it makes it look like it was a good move.
36:44
And by the way, we won the 600 with our new little group, But
36:50
to see Jimmy get that championship means more than I
36:54
can describe. I love Jimmy, man.
36:59
We spent a lot of lot of long days and a lot of long nights
37:03
and a few cases of of Miller. We've been in the trenches
37:09
together. When he came in 97, we had a
37:13
revival at the six car when he came crew chief that I think
37:19
about 1/3 of my cup wins him at the helm on top of the box,
37:26
which is actually amazing. So for him to get for him to get
37:30
that championship was huge. Then to get a Daytona 500, I
37:34
mean, this guy, well, he got Daytona 500 with Bobby.
37:38
So he's got I don't know how many Daytona 500 wins.
37:40
He's got his crew chief, so good on him.
37:45
That kind of wraps up my questions for this episode.
37:48
So I think we could bring Charlie and see if he's got
37:52
anything else to add. All right, guys, thanks.
37:54
That was great stuff there. We we do have some breaking news
37:58
today, fellas. So according to Jordan Bianchi
38:02
of the Athletic, the Charlotte playoff race is moving.
38:06
This is not official yet, but he's reporting it's moving from
38:10
the Roval to the Oval starting this year for all three NASCAR
38:15
series. So the 10 race chase will have
38:19
no Rd. courses. Mark your your thoughts on that.
38:25
I don't see a problem. Only problem I see is calling it
38:29
a playoff race, you know. You're still calling it that?
38:34
Well, that's what Jordan's, Jordan's headline that that,
38:39
that's Jordan's headline, which I don't, I don't get it.
38:42
So, but anyway, I'm just picking.
38:45
I don't see a problem with not having a road course in there.
38:50
You know, I'm just happy that we have 10 races to decide our
38:54
champion. I still think you'll have to be
38:57
blazingly fast and unbelievably consistent both to be the 2026
39:03
champion. So I'm good with it.
39:05
I love, love the Oval. I think I think we're ready for
39:10
cars race really good on that racetrack right now with the
39:14
with the rules package and stuff.
39:15
So the robo was interesting, but you know, it's time for a
39:20
change, I think. I got to make sure I don't call
39:23
it a playoff. So So the Chase here, of the 10
39:28
of the 10 races, like you said, all ovals, 1 superspeedway.
39:33
So Talladega is still in there. Are you?
39:34
Are you good with that makeup? Yeah, I think that I think
39:38
that's fine. Having, you know, 1
39:41
superspeedway race is is OK. I don't see a problem with it.
39:47
You know, it's gives you a a wide variety of of race tracks
39:51
and all. So I'm, I'm glad to see it's not
39:55
two or three, you know, So you know, and, and you never know
40:01
when racing superspeedway racing could change.
40:04
You know, we've had had a big crash fest.
40:08
I think we're due for a really clean race, you know, coming
40:12
soon, maybe the Daytona 500. Yeah, you got to think too that
40:16
how well the Next Gen. car runs on intermediates also goes into
40:21
this line of thinking, this other debate just about, and
40:24
everybody has fun with this, how many Rd. course or street course
40:28
races should there be across a season?
40:31
So if we're including the street courses, by my math, NASCAR goes
40:35
from six of them in 2025 to just four road or street course races
40:42
in 2026. Is is that a good number?
40:44
Would you like to see it back at six?
40:46
Would you like to see less? What do you think?
40:49
I think it's a good number. Yeah, I really do.
40:53
I think that the San Diego race will be interesting for
40:57
something new. I like the fact that they're not
41:01
stuck on anyone thing and you know, they're not I don't expect
41:05
the San Diego to be a 5 or 10 year event unless it's just
41:11
absolutely amazing and I like that.
41:14
So let's I'm all for trying a few different things, 66 road
41:21
course races, quite a few for an Oval based, you know, series.
41:28
So I love Rd. courses. I think, you know, I think
41:31
they're great, but I don't know that I don't, I don't know that
41:35
6 is is not too many, you know. So we've seen a lot of clips
41:40
and, and watched everything from the induction ceremony over the
41:43
weekend, NASCAR Hall of Fame, you guys talked about Kurt Busch
41:46
and Harry Gant and also Ray Hendrick going in.
41:49
So Mark and Matt, any memories? Does it jog your memory of 2017
41:56
of, of you going in? You think back about that
41:58
weekend and your speech and how it all went down when you when
42:02
you see another induction weekend.
42:05
I think the exhibits is, is really one of the coolest parts
42:09
about it. I mean, seeing Kurt look around
42:11
his exhibit and then seeing Harry Gant look around his, you
42:15
know, that Skull Bandit Oldsmobile in there.
42:18
I mean that that reminded me of us going in and seeing dads, you
42:21
know, Valvoline Ford in there. And so that was really neat.
42:25
You go in there with, you know, your whole family and that's
42:29
it's just a cool experience. It's, you know, the family thing
42:34
was, was, was so cool and, and having so many friends and, and,
42:41
and family there and seeing the exhibit was cool.
42:45
But for me, the highlight of the whole thing was, you know, Ray
42:51
Dillon was there, Ron Neal was there, Jerry Gunderman was
42:56
there. It just goes on and on and on
42:59
the list of of people that were instrumental that I would have
43:05
probably never made it to NASCAR without that that didn't, you
43:11
know, become super famous or or, you know, NASCAR, you know, you
43:16
know, that much in NASCAR. So for me, it was my last chance
43:23
to say thank you to the fans and to the people that made it
43:31
happen. And of course, Jack Roush, you
43:34
know, and of course, even Rick Hendry, who was responsible for,
43:38
you know, for over 10% of my win total, you know, but I, it was
43:45
just meaning. So it meant so much to me to be
43:48
able to read off, you know, how much my mother, how much my my
43:52
dad, how much these guys that most NASCAR fans don't know
43:57
about that were instrumental in building my foundation.
44:03
Are you nervous giving a speech like that?
44:05
How? How long was your speech also?
44:08
I was real nervous because it was it was my last chance that
44:12
I'll ever have, last biggest chance, the big stage.
44:16
So I did the bullet points for what I wanted to say and then I
44:23
turned that over to Kevin Woods, who, you know, had been my long
44:28
time PR guy That was really good.
44:30
And he, you know, organized it and, and got it kind of written
44:37
out and I timed it and it was 15 minutes.
44:44
And I usually won't rehearse a speech.
44:49
They always want you to rehearse your speech.
44:52
I want my speech to be the first time it's ever been done, first
44:55
time it's been said. I don't want anyone to hear it
44:57
until I say it. I don't know why.
44:59
It's just, it's one of those things my I'm peculiar about.
45:05
It's, it's fake. If you practice it in front of
45:08
people and then you say it, it's not the same.
45:10
I don't know. So I didn't want to go and do a
45:17
rehearsal, but I decided I would because they really wanted me
45:21
to. And I sat down with the I think
45:25
it was with the girl that and said, you know how, how Long's
45:28
your speech? I said it's 15 minutes, you've
45:32
got 7. And I said, well, I then I can't
45:35
do it. I won't do it because it was my
45:43
chance. You know, it meant everything in
45:46
the world of me to say thank you to the people that got me there.
45:52
And so she took the speech, They looked at it, they cleaned it up
45:58
and, and, and they got it down to 7 minutes.
46:04
But I knew when I got up there, they couldn't stop me.
46:07
So, so we were able to whittle it, you know, I, I think I
46:11
delivered over, you know, somewhere around 11/10/11
46:14
minutes and I got everything in there.
46:17
They did a good job of, of streamlining lining it so that I
46:22
could still get, but I practice it a lot.
46:26
It meant the world to me. I did not read the speech.
46:30
It was from memory. All I had was some bullet points
46:34
up up on the teleprompter. I didn't have a speech.
46:37
I, I wouldn't refuse to read it. Look, this is it was from my
46:42
heart. It meant everything in the world
46:44
to me. You know, my entire career, you
46:48
know, rode on these people's back.
46:50
Yeah. Did did Matt help you with the
46:52
bullet points? I know he's obviously very
46:54
instrumental with the the book coming up this year.
46:57
No, I was. I was too busy in college, man,
46:59
at that point. Yeah.
47:02
Yeah, I was still, you know, I was, I wasn't that far from, I
47:05
wasn't, I had been retired that long.
47:08
So, you know, I was still in the hang of, of doing things like
47:12
that and making speeches at the banquets and, you know, the,
47:16
the, the NASCAR banquets and stuff.
47:18
So I knew what I wanted to say and, and Kevin got it organized,
47:28
you know, and, and sort of filled in all the blanks and
47:33
then then NASCAR media tuned it up and then I just all, I didn't
47:39
have a 1 written out. I just had them put the bullet
47:42
points up and I knew, you know, each bullet point, I knew
47:47
everything that I wanted to say and I had it all, you know,
47:50
pretty much memorized. So yeah, it was very stressful.
47:54
It meant I, you know, I, I couldn't screw it up.
47:56
I it meant it. It meant the world to me.
48:02
And how about being a part of an All Star class that year?
48:05
Benny Parsons, Rick Hendrick yourself, Raymond Parks and
48:10
Richard Childress? That that's quite the lineup.
48:13
It was. It was pretty cool to be going
48:15
in with with those guys. It was, it was amazing.
48:19
It was really the time of my life.
48:24
It was so, so great. Had so many friends come in and
48:29
family and it was just, it was the crown jewel of my career.
48:35
And it, it, it, you know, it, it seemed like it, it lasted longer
48:40
than maybe a win, you know, the Victory Lane celebration.
48:44
This seemed to linger and it's still, you know, I remember it
48:48
vividly. I don't remember Victory Lane of
48:50
any of the wins that vividly. So we also this past weekend we
48:56
had the Rolex 24 at Daytona 24 hour of Le Mans back in the day
49:03
and Matt was helping me, me with this.
49:05
You had what three class wins 899195 and of course Paul Newman
49:14
driving with you guys. So just Mark and Matt, but give
49:18
give me your memories from the Daytona 24.
49:22
Well, yeah, I mean, I think the coolest one for sure is is 1995.
49:27
I mean driving with Paul Newman. I mean, how can you get any
49:30
cooler than that? You know, I mean that that's
49:33
pretty cool. But you know, 9189, you know
49:36
cool stories behind those two because in 89 you drove for like
49:41
the two teams that Jack had in the race.
49:44
You drove for both of them. So there was no way you weren't
49:46
going to win that one. I think Jack put just put me in
49:51
the other car. I was teamed up in my car, was
49:54
teamed up with Deborah Gregg and Lynn St.
49:58
James, and I don't remember who else might have been Pete Halls,
50:02
but I can't remember whoever. And so then the All Star team
50:07
was over in the other car and I think he wanted me to be
50:11
credited. So he stuffed me in that car for
50:14
a few stints just to just to make sure that that I got credit
50:18
for that. But yeah, we had a lot of fun
50:22
that first one. I've got some cool memories.
50:26
You know, I had always run really good on road courses
50:30
already back in 82 at Riverside and, and whatnot.
50:34
I never used the clutch downshifting ever, even with
50:37
AT-10 transmission, because I'm a, you know, grew up a truck
50:41
driver. And so I went down there and of
50:44
course I'm scared to death of Jack and all these expert Rd.
50:49
racers. And I go out and practice and
50:51
I'm trying to do this heel and toe and I'm raking gears and,
50:55
you know, stumbling around and I come in and I go to Jack and I'm
50:59
scared to death. I mean, I go up and I say, Jack,
51:02
if you let me shift without the clutch, I promise I will not
51:10
break the transmission. And he sit there and thought
51:14
about it for a few seconds. OK.
51:18
And so there we go. I, I raced all those Rd. races
51:23
with Jack and never broke a transmission or the, the 24
51:26
hours and we never broke a transmission at the Glen or
51:30
Sonoma either one in all those years.
51:32
So I was always proud that I was must have been pretty easy on
51:37
the transmissions. And I always, you know, even
51:40
before straight years for Jericho's and stuff, you know,
51:44
always downshifted with without the clutch.
51:47
And so that that was cool. I got to he he put me out there
51:52
in the rain. It started raining and I don't
51:55
remember the girls were one of the girls were out there.
51:58
They spun out. Jack looks over at me and says
52:01
get ready, you're going in. And I said, Oh no, no, I never
52:03
drove in the rain. He said you're going in and I
52:07
was scared to death. I went out there and I ran 3
52:11
stints. I had so much fun.
52:13
I wouldn't let them Take Me Out of the car.
52:15
I was just having a ball sliding that car around.
52:18
I was probably shouldn't have been doing that, but I was just
52:20
showing out like crazy. It was, it was fun.
52:25
But you know, really like Matt said, the highlight was really
52:31
driving with Paul Newman and Tommy Kendall.
52:35
Really, really special. You know, there had been
52:37
friction between Tommy me Jack, you know, years prior to that
52:45
and it was sort of a, a makeup, you know, journey for for all
52:51
for all of us. Tommy being so tall and me being
52:55
so short, both of us were fairly miserable in the in the car
52:59
compromised. But what a what a what a team,
53:04
what a teammate. Michael Brockman was the 4th
53:09
driver as well and I don't want to leave him out, but talking
53:14
about cool, that was certainly cool Hand Luke.
53:18
Paul Newman was just so such a special human being.
53:24
Awesome. So these are great stories.
53:26
We're we're close to an hour. Let's let's have one question
53:30
from the viewers here. We have to have at least one
53:32
controversial question. It's not really that
53:34
controversial, but from Thomas Edwards on Facebook, he asks
53:38
should NASCAR keep or get rid of the green white checker and
53:43
marks reasoning why. Well, that's a touchy subject,
53:49
you know it. It was done to give the race
53:52
fans. They were screaming about races
53:55
finishing under cautions. It was done to give them a green
53:58
flag finish. It was done for a great reason.
54:01
Unfortunately, the last five years, four years, it's just
54:06
it's been totally, you know, it's been ridiculous with one
54:10
after another after another. I don't know what they should
54:14
do. You know, I have I have a
54:16
preference, but I understand the other side.
54:20
The other side is there's a lot of fans that want to see a green
54:23
flag finish. And I don't know what you're
54:26
supposed to do about it, but, you know, maybe, maybe a good
54:30
start would be lemon, you know, limit it to 1 and see how that
54:35
goes. You know, these Speedway races
54:38
and you can get 3 or 4. It gets to be almost a, you
54:42
know, a joke. And we don't want it to look
54:44
like, we don't want our sport to look like a joke, unfortunately.
54:50
So I, I, you know, I'm not, I'm just not sure.
54:53
I'm not sure what the answer is. I say I have my preference, but
54:58
I understand. You know why we have?
55:01
You know the rule. Yeah, I like that idea of
55:04
limiting it to to 1. Any final thoughts for you guys
55:08
before I go out there and shovel my 10 inches of snow that we
55:11
have here in Saint Louis? Anything else from you guys?
55:14
Y'all must have got more snow up there than we did down in
55:16
Arkansas. We got quite a bit, you know,
55:18
for this, this area. But I saw the videos Kenny was
55:22
posting. Y'all look like I've got a lot.
55:24
Yeah, I think so. Kenny's about probably 20
55:27
minutes from me. I think we got maybe 9 or 10,
55:29
but I think he got Dang close to a foot 11 or 12 inches in
55:33
Arnold, MO. Yep.
55:34
Yeah, and Dad's out there in the desert in the sunshine.
55:38
Soon, as soon as we get off this, I'm going to go out there
55:40
and wash the dust off of our Escalade.
55:43
So it's, it's been setting out since last week Wednesday, I
55:47
think. So it's it's time for a wrench
55:49
job. Awesome.
55:51
All right, Great episode, guys. Episode 4 of the Mark Martin
55:54
Archive podcast. Great stuff.
55:57
We'll see you next week, guys. Thanks.
55:59
Thank y'all. Thank you.