Latest / Pioneer Mind Podcast / How to Break Free from the System and Embrace Your Inner Pioneer

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How to Break Free from the System and Embrace Your Inner Pioneer · Pioneer Mind Podcast

• Mark Workman: Hi, and welcome back to the Mark Workman Show and the Pioneer Mind podcast, where we try to explore the idea of really stepping out into things that you don't necessarily want to go do. You know, I really believe the culture's changed so much that I just see a lot of young people that are just super stuck and can't get out of out of the systems that have tried to kind of control them and put them in a box. And I I really want to encourage people to Step out of those things, create things and do new things, read books, learn an instrument, whatever it is, start a business. you know, really that's one of my real goals is entrepreneurship and teaching people to really step out, take risks. and really that's what a pioneer does. pioneer as a term, literally is a French term that means pr to prepare a way. So the pioneers were preparing a way forward that we could have never even proceeded, you know, even thought about this country and where we've ended up. You the p pioneers that headed across the West is kind of what w how we see a pioneer is an old term. But the truth of it is, is that a pioneer starts every story. And and I'm and that's in business as well. people get ideas in their basement, in their garage, that kind of thing. And they start doing things in a way to try to create something new and really don't know the end result. They're really taking risks that no one else is willing to take. So it's really what the goal of the podcast is and and one of the one of the quotes I like to use is by C. S. Lewis, when the whole world is running towards a cliff, he who is running in the opposite direction appears to have lost his mind. and and the kind of the real truth of it is is that that really is true. If you go against the herd in the system, you are in a really thought of like you're nuts. And it's crazy to even believe that. But I know for a fact that what I had to learn in my early career is that I had to I had I realized if the herd is going that direction, I literally would look over my shoulder and realize the other way was probably the best way for me. so it it it really is the opposite of the narrative. The world is to join the system and join the herd and follow the direction. But we're anytime we're stepping out, our family, our community, church, whatever will question you and one make and really make you feel like you're making a mistake when really you're probably on the right track. So that's what the podcast is about. I'm gonna keep promoting that. I wish you'd subscribe and like it's it's free to you. It helps the show. And again, we're gonna just keep growing this message of people creating in a positive way and and moving out of that stuck spot that I see so many people when I talk to them. They're just literally the best word to describe them is they're stuck. They don't know how to make a decision. And do the next thing. And it's really the system that's kind of locked them in. So the goal is to really kind of get people out of that stuck mode. So again, subscribe and like it really helps the show. Well, today we got a great guest. It's pretty close to home for me. it'll be my son Jacob, and then and I'm just so glad he's here. We're gonna have a discussion, it's gonna be a wide open discussion about anything. Kind of wanna where I wanna start is you know, is Jacob and I talk about it quite a bit with the in terms of growing up in Fairfield, you know, and again Dylan and when he he did a podcast with me too, he talked about it openly. I think you probably watched that one, is just how much that shaped kind of who you guys are today. Not just parenting or where we lived out there on you know, in Fort Shaw in terms of the property and all those kind of things, but the whole environment you guys were in was pretty amazing. I the trauma. Yeah, the trauma. You think it's trauma. Dylan didn't think that. So but like I could leave a football game, and I always thought this was an example that I could leave a football game and you guys would be playing off in the dark somewhere I couldn't even see you. They're playing the other town. Whatever. They're little kids and destroying them. Sure. Yeah, we're the best. And I would I could holler up to somebody, hey, I'm I'm heading home, grab the boys, and they would drop you off or something. You know, I knew it was that safe. You know, it it's hard to explain to people. And and then you guys were leaving in the morning with Basically bombs in a suitcase, firecrackers and you know, torturing gophers and swimming in ditches. Homemade fireworks so I could blow gophers up. Right. So, you know, just to set that up, it i again, I don't think that's a small thing how people play, how they grow up, how how your youth goes, you know, and what do we see today? Everyone's locked in front of a computer, they're doing nothing. And and and again, maybe talk about that 'cause I believe I always say you had the last best childhood. That's the way I describe it. Yeah. What what are your th what are your thoughts on that? Well, I I think like if you look at the studies on that too, kids learn the best when they have what they call free play, when there's not adults around. Well, we don't live in a world like that. Like like there's things that I did in my childhood that I look at my wife and I go, We're not doing that. Right. I'm not letting my twelve year old walk to town by himself to go to the grocery store by himself. Right. You know. So what changed? our perception of the world probably, and then our access to information, I think. All of us having the Library of Alexandria in our hands. Yeah. And seeing every bad thing that happens in the world, we go, that could happen to me. Right. And so naturally, as human beings, we clam up and protect what's ours. And that I think ultimately stops our children from being able to We gotta stop. So yeah, that that's yeah, ultimately I think the the freedom that we allowed our children were like is trust as parents kinda went out the window because we have access to all the bad things that happen in the world all the time. Instantly in your hand. And I think ignorance is kind of bliss in that or was bliss in that. And now we know things and it makes it hard as a parent to kinda let your kids go do that. Take a you know, a suitcase full of fireworks and go kill gophers. Mm-hmm. You're you're constantly worrying about him. Right. Well, and and again, Fairfield, you know, I always I always think of the example where, you know, we all know not to bring up Dylan, but and I remember him having a fear of getting on the bus. And Mrs. Eustens, the kindergarten teacher, came out to the house, parked her car in our driveway, and would ride the bus with him. Yeah. What school does that? Yeah. No. Where does that exist? That doesn't open that one. It doesn't exist. And again, it's the subtle little things that it seemed to happen in that community that were pretty powerful. but talk about the idea of the freedom you had. You guys had freedom. And I don't mom and I were part of that too. We weren't hovers. We weren't definitely can in though you know, we we wanted you guys to make decisions as early as possible about everything, clothing, money, everything. Turn it your life over to you, even at eleven, twelve. Frustratingly so. Yeah. Where I was like, hey dude, can you just give me money like the other parents? Right. Why why do I have to work for this? This is stupid. I want a Gatorade and a pretzel at the concession stand. Sure. No, and and I get it. And I and again that was probably I probably was a little difficult on that. But at the same same time I think it's the right way. I do believe in it, you know. Well, as a parent now, now I'm like, I I do the same thing. Yeah, but y you and I were talking last night about the idea of less is more. I I feel like s the more we give to especially children in our home, the worse it kind of gets. Where if you had them well, I wanna get this and that. Well, what can you do to earn that money to get that thing, right? You know, it's that simple, right? Yeah. But you still had a lot of freedom in my way I think you guys had a ton of freedom and I think freedom was the core thing that was a part of your childhood, in my view. Yeah, you started it the podcast with what was the it's kind of the last great childhood, like before all of it. 'Cause like so I was born in nineteen ninety and then so I got in high school with the internet and then but it was different than it is now. It wasn't connected to every aspect of your life. And I I do think that that it's kind of a weird bridging of the of the of the ages, I guess, of childhood. So come into and kind of be on the tail end of of that and then whatever this new thing is, like school is not what it used to be. Like that that like you said, Mrs. Houston's like they don't have that. to mine to my knowledge. Like they it just it's just completely different experience. And then the hard part as a parent is knowing because you don't want your kids to suffer. But you also recognize hey, hey, well what made me better as a human being is struggle. Because you can't grow without some sort of struggle or suffering, really. you stay the same, you stay stagnant and we're very, very comfortable in America. We don't really that's that's ultimately what causes a lot of these issues around us is all of us are afraid to say or do anything that gets us out of our comfort level. And I think comfort kills. And as a parent, it's hard with with my sons and then my li my little girl. It's easier for me to be soft with her than my sons, but I do think there's a balance there where you want them to have good lives, but you also want to try to foster some form of struggle in a healthy way, you know, without being cruel. And and that's a hard balance. Yeah, I always believed in no is the answer to every question until I say yes as a dad. I used to tell mom that, no, no, we're not doing it. No, no. And then when I said yes, you guys would like pop up and go, Wow, he said yes to something, you know. And I think to some degree that sounds absolutely counterintuitive, but I think it it creates the right environment for for kids to kind of flourish and start thinking for themselves to solve problems or whatever, right? You know, and and or to assassinate the parents when they're sleeping. Sure, you've tried that. But it you know, you try to kill I can think of three examples where I think you literally were trying to get get making light maiming. Yeah. Light maiming is all. Light naming. Yeah. I I still have the scar in the center of my head. It's a there's an indentation right here. Cabinet's never been the same. No. But it it's pretty funny. But you know, and again, we we were probably a little different, and mom's a big part of that too, huge part of that. She definitely wants freedom for you guys and and knew that. We knew that up front. We talked about it all the time. Mom probably pushes the limits big time. A lot more than she should. Like one thing as a parent when I was but you know, my sons are just learning how to walk. I love mom, but I was a little nervous to let her take him to the park by herself. Sure. 'Cause I'm like, she's like, they're going down the slide by themselves and like they learned to walk last week. Yeah, they walk like let's She let w walk across a bridge over a stream. Yeah, they were jumping across the alligator pit. It was great. Like, Mom. No. No, and she grew up that way too though. And that's she doesn't think anything of it. Well, she tells stories about how she used to grandma would just send her down with a screwdriver and they'd pull pieces of quartz out of the road by the highway. Yeah. No. Yeah. Like as a parent, like that no. Like right next to speeding highway, you're on the edge and you're pulling pieces of cords out of the asphalt. Like, let's not do that. Right. You know. Mom and I took a bike ride one time down in the in the in Sula area and on a ri bike ride she used to use do all the time and it was a logging road. And we had logging trucks blowing by us at fifty mile an hour on a basically a dirt road. And it was single lane, and she says, I did this every day. I can't even believe I would let my kids do this. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. So she definitely has that in her, you know. So it's pretty interesting. You have the comment as a parent, you tell me that you're gonna raise kids, you're going you want savages with self control. Yeah. Is the so explain savages with self control. So say say you have a situation where something comes up. And like you're gonna like, hey, I need you guys, like, hey boys, we're getting out of the car, we're all gonna get in a fight and protect what the if, the what if moment. We all have that, we're all daydreaming. Well, if this happened, I would do this. It's the but if moment that every man has. I wouldn't hurt anybody, but if, right? And so what you want to do is you wanna be able to teach you wanna have them be competent with self-control, because you can teach self, you can have them be competent and have them lose self-control. But in that moment, if you've just been teaching them self control and you've never taught them competence, you've never taught them how to be tough, how to be how to to fight in those moments, if you ever did, you're doomed because they're not competent. They can't do it. So all that self control you're teaching them, that that removing the testosterone from them, essentially making them soft and modern men. Yeah. It it it does them a disservice because they're not capable. Where if they're capable and they have self control, that that's honestly I think the mark of a good man. There's no I don't think there's any virtue in being a gentle man if you have no capacity for violence. Right. Like like if you have no capacity to do the bad version of that, there's no virtue in do in controlling that because you don't have that issue. So I I think as a man it's important to be competent and then teach him self control. Yeah. You know, self control is like you know, someone's getting angry in your face, a road rage incidents per se. I I've had a couple of those where people are just going off. I mean shared with one you the other day and I'm just like staring at and I'm sure what I did. You know what I mean? But so but if I wasn't sitting there thinking, Okay, this could get bad I'm not thinking about what I'm thinking, I could be in a bad situation really quickly. A thousand percent. Right. You know, all of us could be. yeah. We're all capable of that, of biting on that bo on that apple and kind of getting ticked off and getting involved in something you shouldn't. yeah. Thirty percent. Right. But there is times to defend. And again, you know, I I see that with the a lot of the young men that I talk to, especially here around my office. I have guys in the shop that I visit with quite a bit. And and you know, I shared with earlier in the podcast that that, you know, they're they're working here all day at this place that I office at and then delivering pizzas at night. And I mean they're working hard, you know. And it's just such a challenging thing and they feel and they have that word stuck, you know. Has there ever been a point where you felt stuck where you're like, I am stuck, I gotta make a move and then how did you get out of it? I I've gotten stuck a bunch of times with different things and some of those were were personal issues, kind of my world view. Honestly I've been very, very fortunate to be able to kind of out outwork a lot of my financial problems. I've not not everybody can do it's I I've been very fortunate to have opportunities. that I've been able to if I've gotten stuck financially, I was able to kind of wiggle my way out of that and try to get out of that. And not everybody has that opportunity, so I've been fortunate. I would say probably my bigger stuck moments have been kind of my thought process. One would be when I left 'cause I'd kind of designed my life around football. Sure. Started, you know, junior high, high school. And that was very much your identity. Like you won football games in town. You go to the coffee crew at the gas station, they're buying you power rates. Like in the morning. Like you the town took care of you and you were kind of a celebrity in high school because we were good. And then I went to college. And you're nothing. And you're nothing again. That's what I always tell me. You're gonna be nothings. And and so where I the stuck part was so my sophomore year of college, so my freshman year college, I wasted. Really. I I I I I was like, I had f I have four thousand dollars in the bank, dude. I got so much money. And then I I I'm gonna I'm gonna have beer every night and my school's easy, it's cake 'cause it's my it was my gen eds. It was you know, I didn't have to study, I didn't have to do anything and I was never I was I was not expected to play 'cause I was a red shirt for the football team. And so there was no expectations of me whatsoever. I could just party and do what I wanted. and then sophomore year hit and I accidentally switched to electrical engineering 'cause I thought my uncle was electrical engineer and I told him and he goes, You idiot of mechanical, right? Well it's too late for me to switch and my teachers were sick of me. So they were like, You're staying in electrical, figure it out or get out. And I think I failed all eighteen credits that semester and 'cause I I'd never had to work hard for s I didn't realize in high school and all that, I I never had to study for anything. Well, the truth of it is, and this is gonna be taken as a negative i by any educator out there, but the truth of it is is high school is I feel like as a coach, when I was in there, not on task much and I don't know if it is deeply pushing hard enough at the high school level to prepare for electrical engineering kind of back thing. N no, no. It it's it's a farming community. And so like like your your F F A. Like that was a big club. Like like like like shop class. Shop the sho our shop at the school is half the school square footage. Like it's huge. That's true. And so it's just different. And so growing up 'cause you're not a farmer. No just ha having a completely different like I had no idea what I wanted to do. Right. Like two thousand and eight hit stock market crash. And I remember you looking at and I was like, Well, I can go play football for Carroll College. And you're like, No, you're not, for thirty-six grand a year, pal. Yeah. And I was like, okay, all I'm gonna go make an in be an engineer. They make money, right? So it it it was all kind of by accident. And so back to my story. So my sophomore year when I failed all eighteen of those credits, I was also like we got a new football coach, Bob Green, Chuck Morrell came in and I was sixth string. I was sixth on the depth chart, and there was like four guys in front of me in my. Better all them. This is cra and they wanted to get rid they were like you just didn't have the name. Well well, that and also in fairness to them, I didn't do anything. My freshman year stand out either. I didn't I did I did the bare minimum. I showed I was I was dependable. I showed up to everything on time. And that was about the best you could say about me. Right. I gotcha. And so it came down to it and I hated. So we did winter ball, which is just conditioning, and where they they're trying to make you quit. And so we went from a hundred and thirty players to eighty four. three weeks. Wow. That's they made it brutal. And so stuck it out. And then at Springball, I remember like it was the first week of six string and they didn't give me any reps. And I was like, I'm doing all this work for nothing. And they're like they want they're trying to get me to quit. And then the second week went through and I was finally I just tapped Lance Spencer is his name. Ex Grizzly guy. He was our coach I tap him I said, put me in. And he goes, you know, I said, No, put me in. Just just one. Just put me in. So he put me in. And I had the best play of my life. And I came off the corner and I destroyed Nick Baker, the quarterback, the starting quarterback is in the red jerseys. He says, Do not hit. Like in l big letters, do not hit. And I speared him in the back. wow. So choked me around, grabbed him and face me, he drugged me off the field and you know, yelled all sorts of curse words at me and I was happy as a clam. Like, I got it. Sweet. And the next day I had two reps, next day I had four, and then a week later I got the starting spot and I started for four years. Yeah. Yeah. He had a great run. Yeah. Is real and I and I th I'm thankful for Montana Tech as a school. I've told you that many times how I really felt like I know it's got a reputation for certain things, drinking and that kind of stuff. Well there's no girls. There's no girls. So what do you do? You drink. You drink with your boys. Yeah, yeah. But I would still say I I just was so impressed with the school and the staff and I mean they did a great job. I'm I went to a football game last year, still knew my name. Hi, Mr. Workman. Coming up. You know, I was blown away. You were there. Yeah. And I we were just like I'm just like, that's crazy. I think that the month Montana Tech, it's kind of absorbed a lot of personality of Butte itself. Sure. We're it's a very it's a been a it's a tough place to live, but once you're one of us, like it's us against everybody. I They literally have shirts that say Butte versus everybody. yeah, I didn't know that. Everyone wears Like like like it's it's us versus everybody. Right. And that's how they view it. Like, hey, we're we know we're a tougher town, but we're just gonna be tougher than you and we're gonna take care of our own. So how has football shaped you? You know what I mean? In terms of well, you know what I mean, in terms of just you you're you're you're actually quite entrepreneurial. You're very successful at your work, you know. I I always believe p pursue excellence in something. I used to get irritated when they'd say you When I was coaching basketball, I was assistant, I wasn't really a coach. I was a rah-rah coach. I was trying to keep people doing their closeouts and rebounding, you know, I was trying to keep on the small things, you know. But a coach is able to transfer information about a skill through verbally and training to another person that they can actually begin that muscle memory and get it in their brain. Coaches are able to do that. And then during games, they're making decisions that Most people can't even see the time left, number of quarters, how many quarters that player got. I mean, they have everything already in their brain all the time. Yeah. Head coaches are amazing. Yeah. You know what I'm talking about. And you know, but I you know, I look back at you know, football as y you were pursuing excellence in something. And I think that pursuing excellence in anything, you know, if you want to be a good trombone player and you're spending two hours a day, no one had trouble with that, right? But I remember coaching, you guys, too serious about your basketball. These kids want to be good at this. Yeah. You want to be good at football. Yeah. And I believe anyone who's pursuing excellence in anything, it shows up the rest of their life. Well, like it started when when you were coaching those that older group. So I was in elementary school. Yeah. And that kind of set the foundation for a small town. They didn't ask us they didn't tell us we were too serious about basketball. It's it's it's it's only when you're trying to change the status quo they tell you, Hey, you're doing it wrong. Right. The status quo when we got in was we're going to win right the state championship this year. That's the goal. And if we don't, it's a failure. Like you're a loser. It got that way. It got that way. And so I d I think only when you're trying to change the status quo or you know, be a pioneer change, change, be a pioneer, whatever you want to change something, is when people poo-poo your idea or whatever. Late in college, 'cause I'm only six foot, you know many times I had people from our small town tell me I'm too small. It wasn't anyone at college that was telling me I was too small. Right. Right. I had people in the media at the news organizations in V telling me it's too small. How do you do it at your size? Right. And I was like, I'm not that small. Like like what are you doing? Well, I I always said it was a benefit to you because you know, I could see that you were able to, you know, approach you had a amazing first step. We've talked about that many times about how many times like you told you total story about a guy that was snapping the ball. And he snapped the ball and he looked up and you weren't there. That was his line, right? I knew I knew I was in trouble when I snapped the ball and I looked up and you weren't there. Yeah, so you had that that that speed off the first a few steps to get to places. And but I do think like I saw I'm thinking of a game that there was a d a tight end or whoever he was that you kept getting under his under him and and he straightening him out every play. Like I it was hilarious. Like I I i I wanna say it was the billing school. Rocky. Yeah. And and I you could just see you were just he you were sh he's six foot six or something. Yeah. And that's the to prototype, right? Yeah. And you were just getting under him and you and you were so strong you were just shoving his chin to the roof, you know. And it was and it was and it was an advantage to some degree. Yeah. Yeah. In in the yeah, there's time yeah, it was it was kinda kinda nice. Yeah. So I I never felt small. I never felt like I was getting bullied or anything. But like it was surprising just coming even coming out of high school. you're gonna play college football. You're a little small for that, aren't you? Right. And like it always bothered me. Yeah, but like I I'm as a dad, I'm all I've I've even prayed and thanked God for the idea that there's other men involved in my children's life helping them to pursue excellence and be good at something. You had great coaches. I did all the way through. My Meyer Brown, Rogers, all of anyone who helped out, all those kind of things. Those those were huge things coming from that community that again, I want you to have a great education. I want you to be smart. I want you to have a worldview thinking about but I'm not remembering what I did in English composition class. Yeah. Like I'm I remember the like what I learned. Like I'm not saying sports with everything, but in high school for me, those a lot of my big lessons came from athletics. What would be the biggest lesson you learned from one of your coaches? one of my coaches. Yeah, that you just remember he said, Don't do this. Meyer always said don't drink soda. Yeah, I mean but there's a million things. i it the big thing was was consistency. If you only put effort in every now and again, you're worthless. Like you're you're not you're not gonna be successful because there's gonna be someone that's gonna do it every time and they're gonna catch you. Right. So if you take plays off, you're going to lose. Right. And that was kind of an interesting transition into life too. It's like if you yeah Yeah, like okay, we all have like what I by take days out like we all need like a rest day just to like hang out at the house the weekends or four. Spend time with your family. But whenever I truly believe that if you are not moving the ball forward, mm-hmm in life, in anything, like the g like the guys here, they're working their butts off. They are and then they're working at pizzas, they're moving the ball forward. What happens to them if they're like, you know what? I'm just not I'm not ever gonna look for any other opportunities. I'm just gonna do this the rest of my life. Do we view that like a good thing? No. Stagnation is degradation. And that's kind of a lot of what I we we were kind of talking about, like the culture change and everything, is we've stagnated and now we're trying to keep preserve there's half of us that are trying to preserve things and then half of us that are trying to really change things. And you don't know what's what the answer to that is. And you just get degradation because we get we're locked together. Yeah. So and and I you know, I when I came up with this idea to do a podcast, I'm really doing marketing for my two businesses in my product lines and stuff. Shameless plug. I am. I am gonna do it. So that's on there. But it it's it's the idea that I realized that I was farming out a lot of my marketing to third party companies that don't care about me at all. No. So I have my oil field guys on here, dynamic drilling fluids, geodrilling fluids, all these companies that I work with. And I do podcasts with them to promote their business. So I'm not I'm I don't actually hardly mention my business, but I have the marketing behind me. I do mention RMI supply, supplies the oil field and different drilling rigs. You know, I do do a little bit of a ad, you know, just really briefly, but it's all about them. What are you guys doing? What's your new innovation? What's the new technology coming down the pike? You guys are because they're always developing something new to make something better. They're all innovation is making something better. That's not necessarily being at a pioneer. Yeah. Pioneers go into complete unknowns. Yeah. Oilfield knows a lot, but they are innovating. They are creating new better ways to do some things, safer ways, cleaner ways, and they're always working on it. I mean, they spend millions on that. Yeah, you know. Well, I I think the pioneer mindset is is uniquely American concept. I think you're right. And the reason it I say that is because as an American culture, excuse me, we're risk takers. Risk is rewarded. risk is looked at like a good thing. You go to Norway, if you step out, like because it's more of a collective culture, like, hey, you know, you don't do anything that upsets anybody. Don't change the status quo. We like it the way it is. Keep it here. This this is the way we want life. In America, you're you're rewarded for taking risks. And but that's what I think the change is. I think that's the change that's occurring last thirty years. People don't like it. They're the the culture is like the the They're not they're they're they're saying they want that, but as soon as you do it, you're the outsider. Yeah, no no it's uncomfortable. And so then you have it's it's an uncomfortable thing to take a risk. And people like the like when I said earlier, comfort kills. That's a big thing. We've gotten very comfortable. We have life is good and so the idea of taking a risk on something and not working out is more terrifying than just doing what we're d doing the thing we hate to do. But just keep doing that. Yeah. There's a book out there called The Comfort Crisis. I know I've suggested it to you. Maybe you aren't you probably haven't. I know if you've read it, but it's one that mom and I worked through last year, two years ago, maybe three years ago now. But the comfort crisis, just as a recommendation to anyone wanting to read a good book, you will be challenged directly about what you think is hard. Yeah. You know, and y you probably remember my long thirty year statement of hard things aren't bad, they're just hard. We want to value judge every ev circumstance in our life. This is so hard. This is making it so bad. No. Hard things aren't bad. They're just hard. So get get going. Yeah. And on the outside of those things, when you do have people in your life that are going through something hard, you need to understand that like, hey, the worst thing that's ever happened to somebody is the worst thing that's ever happened to somebody. So like their litmus, the it's all relative. Like you have the person that, you know. their their parents passed away when they're little, their terrible their dog ran away, their house burnt down. Whatever. They're gonna have a different perspective on what a bad day is than someone that hasn't had anything close to that experience. Right. And so as a parent, to get back to the parenting thing, how do you you obviously I don't want to die in my house burned down, my dogs run away for my kids to be tough and take risks. No, I agree. So h how do you foster that in today's comfort culture? And that's difficult. And that's that goes back to what I said. You need to say no often. As a parent. No. No. Can I have a no, no. And when you say yes, you really mean it. Yeah. You know, and create those environments where yes is a a blessing for them. I used to tell you guys we'd be we'd be doing the whitewater rafting. You probably don't remember these things, but I used to always make sure to tell you, isn't it a blessing that we're on white water rafting on Tuesday afternoon at two and I'm still making a living? Like entrepreneurship. I really believe in it a hundred percent. I'll never never we need more people starting businesses, being creative. Fishing for a compliment a little hard there, aren't you? No, I'm not at all. But I used to say that to you guys all the time because I wanted to teach you that Yeah. This is not normal. Freedom is the highest goal. Money is worthless. You b and I you know I've said that to you a thousand times. Chasing dollars, you will fail. Chase freedom and you will be successful. Because freedom is powerful. It gives you it gives you Freedom in your mind and your thinking and clarity that you can't get anywhere else. And when you know, there's no worse thing in the world to wake in the morning and know you gotta go to a job you hate because you're in bondage. It it's the worst. And and the way the world's different now is so so kind of a younger perspective on it, because I agree with what you're saying. Freedom is what's important, not the money. But the money with the money comes a sense of freedom. If you were in If you're just barely making it and you're like, I have to deliver pizzas tonight after working all day just to pay the bills, you don't feel very free. That's not freedom. And that's what a lot of young people are looking down the barrel of right now. And then so you're gonna see anarchy, and that's why you see these crazy political things come through where they're like, Communism's good. It it it it's like, no, it's not. But where where people don't feel like we don't feel free. Nothing feels free. We're in bondage to the system that's been created to harvest our finances. I don't want to get political and I'm not I don't I don't either. Sorry. I get No, no, you're not. You're you're totally fine. But but what you're saying about this generation following, like I'm an X and you know, we're we're I was talking to you about this. We're what's called the tweeners. We don't join things, we're entrepreneurial, we're not gonna take BS, we don't, you know, we're not believing everything we see. X people are probably beginning of that, but we also state ourselves, keep pretty private. And you know, we're not gonna be declaring from the rooftops our views on anything. That's what the next is, you know. But the boomers ahead of us have a whole different view of things and all and then your generation, your millennials and the the Gen Zs, they're doing the calculus. They're saying this is about the money side you're talking about. They're doing the calculus. I went to college and now AI's taking my job. I went to this and is this is stealing. I and now it tossed me I was able to pay most I made a lot of money as a high schooler to go to college and stuff and was it was fairly affordable. Had help, had some on my own, that kind of thing, and was able to do it. Now it's astronomical numbers to go get training in something, most likely you can't get a job, right? So that's where I'm saying start a business, take that fifty thousand a year and plug it into some resources and go get some training, get a job with someone to learn a skill, electrical. Whatever, get some training and then start your own business, you know. I really believe in that. I I think we should be doing more training that way than always pushing the college thing. And that's is for some people. Doctors, engineers, you gotta have that training. Yeah. Isn't that right? Yeah, no, yeah, for sure. That I I think it's hard for yeah, the young people they look and they go, What should I do? Right. They're stuck. Yeah. I believe it. And You know, I've been very very fortunate to have some opportunities that where I was able to kinda get not stuck. But I'm still in it. If I miss the paycheck, I'm I'm gonna be Yeah, you'll know it. Nothing's more addicting than a bi weekly paycheck 'cause the second it's late you're you're you're where where is it? Where is it? I need it. Yeah, and and I and that's that's a hard thing to s swallow. It is, you know, and I I always say a job is just over broke, I don't care what you're getting paid. And and well I make really good well, you're still probably just overbroke, just so you know, you know. And I I I you know, I probably have some totally different perspectives than a lot of people on terms of those kind of things 'cause I'm so driven to be kind of left alone. Freedom. I wanna create something, I wanna solve problems for people that are away from me. My whole life has been my whole business model has been so I can work alone. Yeah. I and you know this that it's it's I I do everything that way. But I'm still connected with thousands of people across the country and the world, but I'm still able to solve problems and and get involved with projects or whatever I'm doing w without having someone sitting right next to me, which I could never take. Yeah. I don't know why. I just don't know why I'm that way. But, you know, it really isn't the money thing nowadays is real. It's it it's hitting families and it breaks my heart to see what's going on. And I I guess I believe entrepreneurship's the answer. I don't think a job is, but especially in in our area in Montana, a lot of things are wages. You know, it's just wages you're working for. It's really challenging. Yeah, it's it's tough because so you have the the the the boomer generation, which is sitting on eighty trillion dollars worth of assets, and then the next largest generation is the millennials and we have twenty trillion dollars in assets. That's what happened to X. You guys don't matter. You don't say anything. No, we're no we are a little bit when you read about the generation, we're we're silent. Yeah. well the millennials do all the talking and then the generation below us glue their hands to the road. So you know, we're we're progressing. So but besides the point, sorry for dipping into that. But no, it's okay. It's a good subject 'cause I think it's part of the degradation thing or the challenging thing I think for entrepreneurs and creating things, pioneer my this some of that stuck thing is real. It's absolutely real. It's all over the culture. Yeah. So like 'cause I have 'cause there there is this kind of the this rah, rah, like just work harder and you'll get out of it. Well S some it part of being successful is knowing when to say no right and quit and do something different. Right. And it it's it's it's tough 'cause not everybody has that opportunity. And so it it's yeah, and and yeah, I don't really have any other than here's some positives that might have it, 'cause we're kinda talking about parenting and struggle and all that stuff and and comfort is our problem in the U in the US. It really is. Things are g things are uncomfortable and they're gonna get more uncomfortable. Probably. So my positive view on it is well in the future with struggle we get more character. We get more you know. Well the old saying good times create you know soft men, soft men create bad times bad times. Bad times create hard men. Hard men you know create good times. And we're in the worst part of that cycle. Yeah, we are. And and like you know, again, I'll probably get comments on the podcast that, you know, ripping me. That's fine. You know, you know, in terms of people everyone's got an opinion, but my view is that, you know, there that we the pioneering spirit of preparing the way. And I feel like I'm doing that. Like and you're doing that. Even with this show, I've had a number of people get back to me, man, you know, when that show you did on reading books, I I haven't read a book. I haven't read one book. Yeah. And I'm like, you need to be reading a as much as you can. Yeah. And 'cause you d like you talked about worldview. You you mentioned worldview. I bet you if I asked a hundred people what their world view is, a hundred people would say, I don't know what you're talking about. Yeah, they're like, This is a weird question. What are you doing? They would not understand what I'm asking. Yeah, no. Like it like your perception on what, this is life. Right. 'Cause like when I moved graduated college, my whole life been football, I moved to Omaha. Yeah. And the girl I thought I was gonna marry, yeah, that didn't work out. Right. Like, so I lost that part of my identity. football was gone, I moved to Nebraska. Where in Montana everyone knew my last name, either in Fairfield or Butte. You're all your workmen. You play football. You're the that was your that's my thing. I go to tech and like, did you or I go to Nebraska and they Did you play for the Huskers? And I said, No. And they go, We don't care. Right. You know, you're not a Husker. Well, I never even thought about that for you. So really leaving Montana, because I always say young people don't leave Montana well. They always get off somewhere and dream about coming home. Cause it's so different. Everywhere else is so different than here, right? thousand percent. And Fairfield creates an environment. Well you know, again, not to I'm not trying to blow smoke about Fairfield, but it it it's a unique place in the world and it creates an environment for young people in the school and everything. They go they go the extra mile. It was a phenomenal place to grow up. They make gift bags for the other teams. Well, just because when we should be conquering and dominating. Well, we did conquer and dominate. Yeah. Like that's why we always Kleenex in the boxes. Yeah, so we wanted them to feel really good about them too. Cry yourself to sleep tonight, you losers. yeah. Now we're getting to the truth of this podcast. Yeah, conquer. Yeah. But the truth of it is, is that it really is amazing. So you leave Montana and you go to Nebraska, and I guess I as a dad I never thought about it really. It's like you were on your own. it was terrible. And like I had to get a smartphone real quick 'cause I couldn't drive anywhere. I was terrified like there's so many people compared to what I I usually I usually just drive in. The next person in front of me in Montana is like three miles. And I'm like, there's a lot of traffic on the Well, you can see them you I gotta go towards that mountain. Yeah, there's a lot traffic today. Right. I got in Nebraska and I'm like, What? Yeah. You know, like, it's on the corner of Hundred Forty Fourth in Maple. And I go, Huh, what? Yeah. You know, so I had to like get a smartphone, which I didn't have at the time. I spending all my money flying back to see my girlfriend 'cause that relationship wasn't doing well. Sure. And so I had no money, so I got all my f stole my furniture, didn't steal. But peep in my apartment complex, people would leave the furniture and so the apartment complex would just throw the furniture in the dumpster. my gosh. So all my furniture was out of the dumpster. And then I bought a mattress and so I slept on the mattress on the floor and then I had an entertainment center I got of the trash can and I lugged it up. And as one of those LC had money, didn't you? No, I spent all my money on plane tickets on a failing relationship. okay. Because I didn't have any friends there, didn't know anybody. And then also t table that up with I graduated electrical engineering. I think I'm s I think I'm smart. You start your first job, anyone will tell you you don't know anything. No. You are an idiot. Yeah. And so comment so I'm terrible at my job. My relationships failed. My identity's gone. And now I'm sitting here in an apartment by myself when I, you know. in in the middle of a town where that doesn't have mountains, so it's the worst thing that's ever happened to me. Yeah. You know, because of this love relationship we have with the state of Montana. And like I think by my analogy, I think I said it to you yesterday at breakfast where I was like, I think I figured out Montana thing 'cause there's other than Texas, most like you you come to this house, everyone's house here has a picture of Montana on the wall or cups that say Montana or shirt that he says Montana. You know, everyone loves the state here. and I think it's kinda like a bad relationship where there's really high highs and then Montana when it's minus twenty, there's really low lows, but you remember the highs. And then Nebraska is like a good solid relationship. It's kind of boring, but good for you. And that's where that's why I still live there. But it's just different where like they don't have that state love that Montana has. Yeah, you've done a good job though in Nebraska. You raised your family, your home, the whole thing. It it's it's been a blessing life there. Yeah, for sure. But the star start of it I was a hundred percent planning. I was like, I'm gonna make it one year and I'm leaving. And the reason it was gonna be one year is 'cause my company gave me a bonus of three thousand dollars and I was like, That's so much money. I can't I couldn't possibly pay that back. 'Cause if I left first year I'd have to pay it back. Nothing. You know, I'd be like I was like, I can't pay them back three grand. That's so much money. I'm gonna have to sit here for a year. And then at the end of that year I was like, Well, what would I go back to? I don't I don't own a farm. No. I don't have anything, can't afford a home. Yeah. That was probably one of the mistakes I made as a leader of the house, you know, in a sense of we kind of got there in ninety-four and Rob had just passed. You knew that was kind of some most of the motive actually to leave Hamilton and go over there. But there was a point that I reached, six, eight years in, that I'm telling Kathy, you know, all my work is all over the country. You know, my trucking. My log home builders, I had twelve hundred builders in my program. I was selling to Cabela's Bass Pro, all my logs, all that kind of stuff was everywhere else. So nothing was happening in Montana. Never did, actually, never has. I've made all my career and income and and business decisions based on the rest of the country. And and in some ways I was living in Fairfield and many times I would say, if we're here in five years, we're doing it wrong. And again, it's hard to pull out and leave. Yeah. It's so hard to move and it you lose your network, you lose all kinds of things. But at the same time, there's a point where even I would say I was stuck. I would I I use that word all the time. We've settled. We're stuck. I'm young. I'm working all over the country. I have nothing to do with this area. I'm not a farmer. I have no attachment to the land. I ask anyb I go to have conversations anywhere in town and it's how you guys doing. the ground's really mellow. It's taking seed pretty good. We need to burn. We you know, it's all farming con and that's nothing wrong with that. I'm not saying that. But that wasn't my world and I didn't have that connection. The connection I had was I got I was allowed to coach basketball and then I knew you guys were growing up in just this last thing that existed. Yeah. I honestly s I knew that in my heart as a dad. I'm like, there's nowhere we're going that's gonna have this. You don't realize you're you you don't realize they're the good old days until they're gone. Yeah. And it's interesting 'cause like obviously I'm homeschooling my kids. Yeah. but like having them grow up in Omaha is a completely different deal than yeah, growing up where we did. No, Omaha has showed its colors just to and it's a from a distance, 'cause I you shared stuff and I can't even imagine submitting I'm glad as a grandfather that you're not submitting your children to that. And then I got a crew coming up telling me, Grandpa, do you know what a dodecahedron is? Yeah. You know, a twelve sided sphere and you're just looking at him like, How old are you? Yeah, two and a half. Then my one year old's counting to twenty. You know. It's different. And and because my oldest went did the public school thing there. Right. And th they were the the conclusion was, he's got a learning disability, we need to drug him. We need we need to drug Right. And we're like, well, let's just not do that and try something else. And he's a little genius. Right. So he is. He's so intelligent. And he's reading you know, I mean you you told me he read like fifty some books in the last some re he read the entire Hardy Boys series, which is fifty eight books. And now he's reading he's reading the book he's reading the book, The Anxious Generation, about his kid about kids his age getting cell phones. So he like asked to read that book and I was like, It's kind of that wouldn't be the one I'd have picked. Yeah, and what the what's going on there w is what we talked about earlier. What's going on there is a worldview is being developed. Yeah. That's a worldview piece of the puzzle. That like, okay, I I can't be so hooked into technology, I have no relationships. Yeah, like he's actually interested in learning more about it because he's like I all my friends have a cell phone and I want a cell phone, but whenever we hang out, they don't talk. Yeah. That no no one will talk to me. Right. Because I don't have a cell phone, they're all doing that. And and he's like, I don't he go you know, he's well he's asking, he's like, Well at first he's like, I want one so I can fit in. Right. 'Cause that's always the first thing. And then he's then I was like, Hey, as soon as you get a cell phone your childhood is over 'Cause you're getting Library of Alexandria in your hand. You're getting access to all the world's information and all the world's information is getting access to you, which is really the problem. Really the problem. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And because you're product now. You we are now the product. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So it's very fascinating. And again, you know, I there's no one that has used technology more than me to 'cause I have to work across the globe. I mean, I'm Turkey and China and crazy stuff that I do with Texas, you know, that kind of thing. And I I could not live in Montana without it. At the same time, Yeah, you're kinda weak. It's okay. I'm very weak. very, very, very much a soft guy. So yeah. But the it is it is important to embrace technology in the right way is okay. Yeah. Am I wrong? Yeah. Well that yeah, it's hu human hu as human beings, really, what do we do? We make we tr change our environment. We clothes are really a micro environment. Right. So we've adapted that so we can live where we want to live, have a micro environment. Right. And we make better and better things. That's what we do as a species. Right. So we try to advance the ball, even to our own detriment sometimes. Right. But it just seems like this one in the last twenty years, twenty five years With the technology, it's creating new problems that no one foresaw and we're it's gonna take a couple of generations probably to work through most likely. You know, I don't I don't think it's you know, you can't solve this in overnight. This is gonna be a cultural rebalancing of staring at your phone twenty-four seven. It's there's gonna be a rebalancing, I think. Yeah, no, there's gonna be a pullback because they're gonna reach a line to where we go, we're not human anymore. And that we're gonna back up. Right. You know, and and that's obviously the positive world because like hopefully we have the opportunity to back up. Right. Right. We're not plugged into the matrix or something and now we can't get out. No, I think it will be rebalance. Yeah. In my view. You know, and again, y it'll it'll return to becoming tools, you know, that are positive rather than time suckers that destroy relationships. You know, that's what I see. Yeah, I think the most ironic outcome is often the outcome. Most like we look back and we're going, of course. Right. Never saw that happening. Right. You know. I'm gonna put up a quote here real quick and then I'd I'd like you to talk about it and just in terms of the way you see this, no man is free who is not a master of himself. Epictetus. in in in terms of the way you've the way you've had to go forward from Omaha and what you're doing now in your work, you know, some of the stuff you're into with your work, you're being pulled in very, very hard directions on terms of choices almost from four in the morning till eleven o'clock at night. Yeah. Because I got a team around the world and I have to answer their questions. Right. And so you're on different time zones from you said Poland. Poland and Milan and all that yeah. Yeah. So you know how do you maintain being a master? of yourself if you're be if you have outside external forces that are pulling on you in a way that you were actually required to respond to, but at the same time you're losing the control of your day to day life a little bit. I'm I'm gonna be honest with you, I fail at that all the time. And I I think coming down to the number one choice you can make in life, so I was told my boys who you marry. So I have to give a lot of credit to my wife on that one. Sure. Because she helps center me because my go to is I'm gonna work myself to death. I'm gonna sacrifice everything to get this goal accomplished. Right. Like, I had to sound dumb, but I had to like redefine my version my thing of success because I always monitored my success by I got it all done. Gotcha. And I'm never gonna get it all done. And so I was miserable all the time. No. And I had to like, okay. I had to figure out how to just do your best. And like it sounds corny. I'm not wired that way. I'm like, no, I need to win. None of us are. Dylan is driven terrible. He absolutely is difficult on that subject. I'm I'm actually kindly difficult on that subject, meaning I can kind of create a little bit of peaceful charm around being frustrated with something not being done and just you know, I mean that's why I work alone 'cause I you know, I I just can't stand something not being done right or whatever, you know. Yeah, and and like for for me I have a hard time unplugging and like actually enjoying ti the good times that I've earned. Yeah. Like Christmas or birthdays or a day off. Yeah. I have a hard time enjoying that because I feel like I'm like, I'm I'm yeah I'm not I had two decades of that. I'm still that way actually. I can't stand weekends. I hate Fridays because I know the weekend's coming and then on on Saturday and Sunday I'm thinking about Monday. Yeah but when we I don't like it. Yeah but then we look back 20 years later and we go, what I missed out on enjoy because like like I like working. Well like I noticed with my kids' lives, I have a heart I have to my wife has to get after me sometimes to like remind me, like, hey, like it's Sunday afternoon. Like just Enjoy the afternoon. Take a nap. Right. Like just relax. No, I think I think that's something that I don't know where it comes from. It you know, I've had other total you know, people you know have said something about it to me, you know, and about you guys. And I mean they talk about it, you know. And mom's very driven to like she c she's cannot sit still. Cannot, you know, and and it the as I get older I'm getting better at that. But I know for at least twenty, twenty-five years I was just like thinking about But when I but when I'm working, I'm like, I can't wait till next week. I got a couple days off. That'd be nice. But when I'm in that moment, I'm miserable because I'm not working. Right. So I've set myself up to be miserable all the time. So the mastering of yourself in that area is just making borders, setting boundaries. For me, it's setting boundaries and then constantly understanding you're never gonna get it all done. and you're not a finished work. That makes sense. Like just keep Going. Right. Because everyone's like, once I get the answer, I'm gonna perfect myself. I'm like, no. Who who you are at thirty five is a lot different than who you are at twenty. One hundred percent. Right. So my gosh. When you get to thirty, you you have kind of two options. You either are an under lived, skilled thirty year old or an overlived, unskilled thirty year old. Okay. You kinda to make a decision on that at some point in time, like, hey, I partied my butt off in twenties. It was great. Loved it. Now I don't have any idea. I have no life skills. Right. Right. Or the alternative to where you're like, hey, I did a little bit but I you know, I worked my butt off my twenties and now I'm I'm I have skilled. So it's it's you have to so how you start is kind of where you start the race is important. too but like yeah you're never done. No. So that's my answer. That is you're never done. No. And you and you got as soon as you know that, then the pressure's kind of off because I'm never gonna get done. I'll just wake it'll be there again tomorrow. So just cool your jets, right? I still itch. Yeah. Yeah I st I'm still you know. Yeah still 'cause like this is the last day of my vacation when we're filming this. Right. And so I'm thinking about tomorrow already. Sure you are. So I'm having like okay. Yeah we I l I l You know, everyone says you you you don't have hobbies, you don't golf and I said, my gosh, how boring. What the heck are you talking? I love project building projects, working with people, solve I mean, I d I this is my hobby. You know, and been very blessed by it. had had the few dark years from the two thousand eight, two thousand fourteen, just you know, right when you started college and Jay Dylan too. And I mean it it was again that comfort thing I had never known lack everything I touched was golden I mean high school college basketball sports anything I ever touched was a solid gold bar Everything 20s, 30s. I mean, I it was success in every direction. Then 2008 hits, and I'm like, I'm I'm walking around with shame. Like, what did I miss? You know, I was blaming myself, and I'm realizing it's a whole world thing. Lehman Brothers, you know, Brown Bear Stearns, and you know, all the things that happened and all the projects pulled and not sold nothing for two years. And you're starting college in the fall of 2009 and I'm like I'm just got hammered for a large deal. And you know, and I and I really took a beating psychologically. I was probably clinically depressed, to be honest with you, but it really was consistency. It's fun funny the word you said, consistently going to work every day. And working and doing what I could. And we got to the end of that. We took no loans for college, paid cash for everything. We owned every you know what I mean? Yeah. Basically got out of debt on all those years and and took no we it's in a miracle. Yeah. I I it's a I had to gain a bunch of weight to play college football. So I had to eat a lot. Right. I lived off a hundred and seventy five dollars, that's including rent, a month. That's crazy to me. And I figured out how to get food. I don't know It's just say I had some friends in the lunch line. I had some cooks that would leave the back door open and I I I had this big old thing, I get hash browns and eggs and they'd make me a mix of in this bundle every morning. I'd sneak in the I didn't know that at all. Well yeah. Well yeah you did. I was asking you for cash every other week. Yeah, but I you're like no 'cause I'm No I I I the mom and I we got our own tune in those years, you know. it was rough. It's changed the way we live. No, a thousand percent. It's changed the way we make decisions. I always say I don't want anything, I don't desire anything, I don't think about having anything. I I would probably end up with like two shirts, a pair of jeans and some shoes at the end of the day if mom wasn't existing in my life. I literally don't I literally have no desires. Yeah. No you you two balance each other well because mom doesn't want get rid of very much. No, she's a hoarder a little bit on some sentimental things and then but I'm I I she's made my life better in that sense because I would I don't know what my life would look like if I if this attitude I have. Yeah. You know and I want no attention. I want to be invisible. You know it sounds so crazy but it's the best way to be for peace I think because you start declaring from the rooftops or you know whatever you you want to be seen and get recognition you will get get you'll get the attention you want. and then so that's another thing. So on your quote, another th another lesson I've learned is if you're trying to better yourself, your friend group is going to get small. Meaning most people don't want you to better themselves. 'Cause they think you're gonna move beyond them. 'Cause you do. So yeah, so it's an awkward position. So every every guy kind of goes through this when you change. or whatever and and you're like, hey, I'm not gonna go out and go drinking this weekend. I'm gonna I'm gonna stay in. You've changed, man. You're different. Right. You know, and and there's where you're there's a friendless zone because you haven't had time to really develop a new community with who you are, but you also don't belong with your old one. Right. And so it's an awkward place. Right. Where of loneliness that you kinda have to go through too if you're trying to benef you know, work on affecting yourself. Right. So it it's n it's definitely the harder thing. So you're socially ostracized. It's also the harder thing to do 'cause you're putting effort into changing your your wiring. Right. And then, you know, you also have to go through a batch of loneliness. Yeah, I think that's true. but I think I I think those are shaping moments that are good. And then you and then at the end of the day you find out you have this is what is everyone it's an old saying, everyone says you can count all your friends on your hand. It's the truth. At the end of the day, there's you know, five or six close, and I'm talking outside the family, friends, that you can just not see him for years. Like I always talk about Joel. I might not see him four or five years, but I can walk into that deal and we were right where we left off. Yeah, nothing has changed. My high school. Like that, or I'm like because I obviously live somewhere else. Right. But like when I come back, I'm Yeah, you don't have to have constant contact to maintain a relationship. It's it's really something that has occurred at the core of who you are. There's a like-mindedness that goes the distance. Yeah. Is that a good way of saying it? Yeah, I'd say so. Yeah, you know. So well, again, as as we wrap this up, you know, hit the subscribe and like. And Jacob, do you have one word of wisdom that you want to leave everybody with? What would one thing you would tell? Tell crew is it to help crew be a better human, your three-year-old, four-year-old. Like one word of advice. Just yeah, what would you the most important one? Yeah, crew 'cause crew is a sponge. He hears he'll repeat it for twenty years. If I had to choose one thing to imprint on him, it'd be it sounds corny but choose your wife wisely. Yeah. None one thing, that'll ruin your life. I got a great one, so I'm good. But like I have a lot of buddies and like you know, and that and no it doesn't matter how if you don't have a partner in life that's gonna tell you when you're wrong, support you when you're right. Like it it's ho very, very difficult to do anything else. You can't do it alone. I actually don't think men can operate very well without the support of you know, like you know, disrespect. I'm very sensitive to disrespect. I will pop off hard if I'm feeling like even with Kathy if if I feel like I'm and she goes, We're not coming from 'cause you've been making jokes about me publicly, you know, whatever. You know. Yeah, whatever I do. But the thing of it is is th That I the fact that I can count on her being in my corner keeps me going. Yeah. One hundred percent. And and the natural friction that occurs in marriages is not marriage problems. That's another thing that ticks me off as well. We have marriage problems. No, that's just natural friction. Exactly. That's just what happens. You fold towels differently than the next one. Or you don't load the dishwasher just right, you know, or you know all these little frictions that show up are are not marriage problems. No. And and that those are frictions that you just grace each other with and move on. Yeah. You know what I mean? But it but the deal of it is is though it it is absolutely a critical decision. And you know, I you know, there's the old saying, y you hit the lottery. I always you know people say that in the bottom right they hit the lottery and I can honestly say I did. You know, You know, Kathy and I just came from totally different worlds in many ways from Cleveland, Ohio, essentially, to her she had a phone out in the middle of nowhere on a party line living in the forest, you know. Kind of an interesting childhood she had, you know. And but we've been incredibly blessed. Our whole really we had four or five or six years of just getting our butt handed to us out of, you know, thirty seven years. You know, so that's a pretty good track record. Pretty good track record. Yeah, and and And again, life's tough and it's it's gonna keep coming. It rest of my life, that life's gonna keep coming at me. Mm-hmm. And you. Yeah. And that's the one thing you always assume it's gonna get easier. It's like no. No, I think it keeps coming. It keeps coming. Like, yeah, you you get better at one thing. Well, that just gives you more capacity to handle more. No. And it's just more. Yeah. It's a lot. That's right. Well, thanks for joining us today. we just just appreciate Jacob go joining me. What a great conversation with him. It makes a lot of fun for me. And again, i you know, if you enjoy this. And you know, again, I'm I'm really kind of doing more of the oil field and technology, AI, that kind of stuff, the people I like to interview. But you know, this one's kind of off the shelf in the way we did it, but I thoroughly enjoyed it and I thank you for coming. It was really it was really great. So if you can subscribe and like, that'd be great. Helps the show and moves us on. Thanks a lot for joining us. Have a good one.