Latest / The R4R Podcast: Road to Zero / Ben Gathercole, Benny Alexander, and Matt Breen: Part 2

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Ben Gathercole, Benny Alexander, and Matt Breen: Part 2 · The R4R Podcast: Road to Zero

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At Lonsdale St Studio, we believe in the power of
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storytelling to connect people and create change.
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That's why we're proud to be the production partner for this
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Running for Resilience podcast. I remember that, like when the
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rugby league coach Paul Green took his life, it kind of
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prompted me to think about this idea of toughness or stoicism,
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which I imagine. I've never been a tradie, but as
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an outsider looking in, it seems like a very tough domain, very
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stoic domain. And this breathing stuff, this
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talking about your emotions and trying to get to the bottom of
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it. As I think you know, we the same
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thing that the Healthy Trading Project comes up against.
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How do you get past that hurdle? Because it's a hurdle amongst
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all bikes, but I imagine it's even more of a hurdle.
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I think and particularly tradies, it's also isolating
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you. You start pretty early and then
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you you quite often just working on your own, so to speak.
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And you might have a team that works with you or you might be
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part of a team. But I think it's quite
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isolating. They're long hours, it's
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physical, it's difficult. A lot of the time you're
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probably not paid that well. And then there's other workplace
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behaviours that could be quite damaging, whether that's
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sparking drinking. Just energy drink for breakfast.
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Energy drink for breakfast Yep all those sorts of things so
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they'd contribute to just just feeling not too good about
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yourself and again, you know you look at the simplistic view, you
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know, I feel out of shape I feel feel terrible because I've drunk
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too many drinks. You might not know why you've
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been, you know, using your phone to scroll a bit too much online
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gambling and by the time you get to Friday, you're out of money.
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You feel crap about yourself, You know, you're not connected
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with any mates that you might have in the past.
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So it's a simplistic view, but you can see why people get
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caught in that downward spiral. But at all at the end of the
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day, and why I feel so so free Canberra is possible is because
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I agree that everyone's journey and path in life is unique.
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But we are all human with the same 99.999% same biology and
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mechanisms in the brain that explain behaviour.
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And when you I feel when you understand the neurochemicals of
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endorphins, oxytocin, what all these things do, it makes sense
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why people are struggling, then we're not lifestyles that have
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changed so much. We're not living in alarm with
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our genetics, we're in our biology.
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We're not getting the sleep and all.
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It comes back to itself, nervous system regulation while you're
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on your phone scrolling, you're just trying to regulate
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yourself. What Barry said was probably a
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health was a healthy way of regular calming in the farm.
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And I feel like if that became common knowledge 100 years ago,
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we didn't know smoking was bad for us.
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We now know that that knowledge has gotten through society.
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We also know like eating too much now every like is not
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great. And I feel like when once
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society understands nervous system regulation, I really
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that's something anyone can master.
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And that's obviously that. I think that Barry was trying to
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show everyone that it it may not get us to 0, but I think it will
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make a humongous. It's the.
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Foundation difference, yeah. And that's something that we all
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have in common. We all have nervous systems.
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We all, yeah, what's shaped and impacted our nervous system
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through our journeys is is unique.
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But we still have this under like similarity of a nervous
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system that needs regulating. And from when I sailed very
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close, but not the never attempted to commit suicide, but
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when I was in really, really bad place sounding close to the
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window, I was in nervous system pain.
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I was in so much pain. And it's yeah, through the help,
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by getting help from like a psych and practising the
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holistic view around doing things that gave me good brain
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chemicals, helped me regulate my, yeah, get my nervous system
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back into a place where I was feeling a lot better.
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I refer to that a little bit as the ripple effect.
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So it means link. We speak about the ripple effect
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in terms of young fellows behaviour to their mums and
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their sisters and their aunts. And so people quite often say to
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us why are you a gendered by service?
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Why do you just treat young guys as we know that there's a ripple
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effect. So if we're we're helping young
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guy, whether through it's counselling, mentoring or
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education and they're going home and and they now understand a
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little bit about their behaviour and why they're behaving that
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way. And that's the effect that
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behaviour has on others has on others.
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We're actually not a gender. We're actually helping
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everybody. That's exactly what you're
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talking about. Once people start to understand
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a little bit about what's going on with the, the chemicals, the
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endorphins and all the things that's going on in their, in
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their body, it's like that ripple effect and they'll feel
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better and better and better just by virtue of some of those
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small changes. And if if you feel better about
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yourself, well, that's that's a start on your journey is really
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what it is. Yeah, once you got a bit of
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momentum, yeah, you start wanting to do more for whatever
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makes you feel good, and in a good way.
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So it's not easy. It's not easy to give up the
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grog on a Tuesday or Wednesday or Thursday night.
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You've had a long day. Especially if your social
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connections built around although your mates and you need
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it. And that's, that's, that's one
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thing. But you know, you can very
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easily fall into going home on Tuesday night after long that
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work or Wednesday night and having a glass or two wine or a
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glass a couple of beers and that leads into an extra beer.
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That's, that's a habit that's really easy to get into compared
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to, you know, when we get home tonight, then let's have it.
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We just go for a walk for 45 minutes rather than having a
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wine first up, you know, there's all these little habits.
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I'm I'm very conscious of that now for myself because I know
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that's how I perform the best. Before we came down here this
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afternoon, I actually had an ice bath set it up.
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There you go. It just makes me feel better.
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And you know, we could list on a screen all the the physical
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benefits, but I just feel better.
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So I don't even worry about it. I just feel better.
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I knew that I wanted to feel good coming down here.
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I know that I've got a long weekend in front of me.
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I've had a really big week. I was like, I could go down and
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we've been and Matt and, and be a little bit flat or I could do
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something for myself and just feel a little better.
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So that's sort of how I go about it.
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I think there's, there's a clue here as well what you just said.
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I think it resonates. I'm speaking on behalf of blokes
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with blokes when they get into the the Andrew Huberman style
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explanations of people, a lot of people switch off, they go,
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yeah, like whatever. But when you might I just feel
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better or no, I don't want to have an extra beer because I've
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got 3 kids and I just want to feel better in the morning just
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to simplify it. So mate, I just feel better.
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And I think that's the kind of language that can work in those
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groups just but under. Heberman's defence, at least
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he's trying to his big his mission is trying to educate
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people to understand the neuroscience and biology that we
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all have to then inform to make decisions so that the right,
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sustainable or not right, but better decisions that will make
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us feel good sustainably, not fix us or regulate ourselves
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with a quick fix that just makes things worse.
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But. I know I can use this an example
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with Ben because I know he's had coaches through his rugby career
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that were very technical in what they were advocating for and how
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to go about it. And then he had some coaches
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that were just like, mate, it's just going to make you strong.
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It's just going to make you feel better, like and that works.
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Don't have to think it. Don't have to think Team Ben,
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you know, he had the technical, but he had the the gift to get
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say to you, mate, trust me, sleep is is the best thing for
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you sleep and. Diet was it?
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Yep, sleep, diet and ice baths. Is is sleep dot flexibility.
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Flexibility for you guys? Yep, which is important when
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you're in a scrum, you know, quite obviously so, but he he
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had the technical part. And then I know that we had
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coaches later in your career that were very technical and
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just couldn't communicate that very well.
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And So what happens? Most blacks just switch off
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pretty quick. So it's it's about how you
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communicate. And how you get those champions
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in those spots that other people.
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Will follow. Yeah, I think so.
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It's you just got to choose a way of resonating with a person.
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And I want I'll admit I'm a fairly simplistic like makes me
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feel better. Yeah.
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Good enough for me. I know.
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Yeah. That cheques out.
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That sounds about right. Yeah, Yeah.
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Yep, I think that's something quite.
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And I know, well, I know what makes me.
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Yeah, I know what makes me feel bad and I I know that if I had
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three beers on a Wednesday night, Thursday morning
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struggling a bit. That comes from experience.
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A lot of young folks don't really realise that and I think
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people get, they go for a few weeks and some months feeling
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like crap and that becomes their normal, Yeah.
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And then they just sofa. Then it is a long way back.
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It's actually feeling healthy and normal and thriving, which I
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think every like everyone's capable of.
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But it's not easy. No, no, no, not at all.
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And that's I guess. And Brandon, I've had this
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discussion many times about if you do simplify something, that
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it some people get offended by that God, but I don't think just
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because you can state something simply doesn't mean it is
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simple. Yeah, they, but it's you've got
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to. If you can't explain something
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simply, then it'll, it'll never cover every case or every sort
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of scenario. But then yeah, people, some
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people just can't then, well, most people won't be able to
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wrap their head around it and make some sense and.
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It'll get to get you most of the way and then you can get into
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the. Complexity.
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The complexity later on. Because I think that the truth
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with stuff like this is life is so overwhelming, like everything
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that's going. Technology is just making it
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worse, so. That that could be, but you, a
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lot of people have already done an 8 hour day and then they go
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home and then there's home duties, whatever home duties
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might happen to be, whether it's kids, elderly people.
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Whatever. Whatever happens, yeah, just
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life duties get in the way. And then before you know, it's
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7:00 at night and you're just back on the merry go round.
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Do you like you were to be yourself care and how you
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regulate yourself? Is that something like?
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Is it like do you talk about the values to the young guys like?
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Yeah. We know that it is like not
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selfish to put yourself first to look at.
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You need to in fact put yourself first to health first to be able
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to then support those around you or.
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Is there any there's a nuance that because young blokes are
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pretty selfish, Yeah, pretty much.
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You know they'll they'll slam the door in the bedroom and get
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on the game station for. Yeah, that's not the right.
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Yeah, not the right. Yeah, for.
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That message? Yeah, it's not really.
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It's, it's a lot of when you're talking to young guys, it's,
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it's trying to. What values do you try and teach
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them? Empathy, a little sympathetic
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listening, you know, being aware of of what's happening in your
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environment. How do you sell it to them?
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Like how do you how do you get a young like I just want to play
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video games to be understand the value of empathy and want to try
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and be more empathy. Yeah.
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So that's, it's, it's really, that's a really interesting
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question because so from my background, I talk to my
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education and mentor staff all the time about this.
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And I have a saying, I want our programmes to be evidence based.
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I want them to be peer reviewed and I want them to align with
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the Australian curriculum. OK, now you know me and my
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background, that makes perfect sense.
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We're, we're playing 9 minute game, we break at 45.
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This is what we're doing, you know, so, but the truth is it's
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way more nuanced than that. And so my education staff, in
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particular Mark Whitey is very, very strong and very strong is
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not the right word but and advocate for the lived
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experience and talking through it.
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And so the programmes that he has LED us down are really,
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yeah, we, we have evidence and they're reviewed by peers and
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they, they along with the Australian curriculum stands.
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So they're all the things you need to do to go into schools,
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quite rightly. But he also has the skill to be
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able to draw young fellas into the journey and share the
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journey with young fellas. It's quite an amazing thing.
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So what? So what he he tries to share
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stories of where someone started being more empathetic.
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And then they decided, OK, yeah, I should be my empathetic.
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Yeah, and, and they use lots of, lots of tools or workshops to,
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to draw that out of young fellas.
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It's it's quite amazing. You know, one of their favourite
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ones is the mask. And the mask is really referring
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to the mask we all wear outwardly facing.
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So when we come into the studio to talk about these sorts of
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things, we've got a certain sort of mask on.
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But it does that. And our circumstances here is
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the mask is probably the same on the inside as the outside, but
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that probably wasn't the same as what we were when we were 25.
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The masks that we portrayed out, you look in inward and you're
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anxious, you're not sure about your place in the world, you
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don't really know where you're actually going to go.
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Whereas we we're probably better at that stuff nowadays in our
13:41
positions. So they spent a lot of time with
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young fellows going through that.
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It's pretty, pretty profound for them.
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And some are really proud of everybody's doing.
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The masks of grad analogy we remember.
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I remember who wrote. Rag.
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It was anonymous. Article.
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But someone wrote about mask. Yeah, and just the mask.
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Especially if you're not feeling great.
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Yeah, the mask gets pretty big and what's on the outside is
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very different to what's looking the inside of the mask.
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And, and you know, and you can suddenly shut me down on this,
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but there's no disrespect to the the career that you're in, in at
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the pub and the dock. You know, there's there's a way
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that you have to go down and present yourself in that
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environment compared to what you might do at home with the girls.
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And it's new ones. Tribe is a tribe is similar is I
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try, I try and the big deal with the dock, we try and create an
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atmosphere. People can be themselves.
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Yeah, that's something I'm really proud of that.
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Like with no dread. Like you come into the dock and
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you feel like you can just be yourself.
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Fantastic. That's something we strive for,
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obviously some people. Need and you obviously.
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Or two and they feel a bit more themselves, but.
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You won an award for being, you know, that good.
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So. Slight tangent before we get on
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because we've spoken a lot about education, but the mask, I don't
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know. The movie with Jim Carrey.
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Sometimes the mask can take over.
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Sometimes it's sometimes I enjoy putting on a different mask to
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just say what I like about that side of the world or whatever it
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may be. Like you maybe go in and you go
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into a new job and you try to be a certain way to see if it feels
15:12
right or you know what I mean? Like it's a bit different.
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So maybe the masks starts to take over the but take.
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Masks make my skin rash. Sorry, but.
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Every mask there is. A lot of it, it seems that one
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of the themes that is coming into this is education.
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Education, whether it be formal, you know, in a school setting or
15:31
informal, you know, setting an example and telling people how
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it can benefit. But the Silence is Deadly
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programme is obviously, yeah, that's the programme that is
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doing a lot of that education. Well, Silences Daily is, is a
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programme that teaches young guys to help seeking behaviour.
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So talk about what they're doing for us at Mainslink.
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Yeah, that's, that's our sort of benchmark programme.
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That's what we started. Marty Fisk.
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I spoke about it at the Business Breakfast.
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Marty Fisk started that in 2012 with the team at Mainslink at
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the time. And it's now, you know, multiple
16:07
generations more advanced than what it was when we first
16:09
started. And I recall that's how I got
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involved with men's link. I went with Marty and it would
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have been pretty early on to 12/13 and, and presented a few
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of the sciences deadly. So that was my journey into into
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men's link. But that's not the only only way
16:26
that you can educate. So, and I've been spoken about
16:29
it a few times today, but the social, the advent of social
16:32
media or the proliferation of social media is massive.
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So we actually provide an education programme called
16:39
Unplugged and that's teaching young guys the conscious use of
16:43
social media. So we'll, we all know that if
16:46
you're saying no to young, it's like put your phones down, no,
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it's not happening. You know, the chances of success
16:52
is not very good. So we chose the other way.
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We said let's educate young people about what social media
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is and what it's actually doing and the and the algorithms
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behind it and how it works so the young person then has a
17:06
better chance of making a conscious decision.
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Simple. Yeah, teaching them the recipe
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of the poison. Yeah, in a way, yeah.
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Yeah. Do you teach them about the
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dopamine like dopamine like? Yep, Yep, all of the above.
17:17
It's it's an amazing product unplugged.
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Yeah, I. So you so we talk about the the
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catch phrase. So silence is deadly, you know,
17:27
is the help seeking bar and unplugged is, you know,
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unplugged to connect. And they the boys have some
17:34
great material that they've developed and they have two
17:37
concert photos and I think from memory one's a Eddie Mercury
17:42
concert. So I'm gonna say mid 80s, crazy
17:47
crowd, but everyone's everyone's in the mud, everyone's watching
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Eddie. Like how?
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Freddie and then Freddie, Freddie.
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And then everyone's got their in the other one.
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They bet you they've all got their yeah.
17:56
Recording. Yeah, exactly.
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I can't remember who they've used the one day one, but yeah,
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they've got, everyone's got their phones out and they're
18:02
they're worried about the phones that the present in the moment
18:05
is not there. There's a famous photo when
18:07
LeBron James went to shooties break the NBA record for most
18:11
points. Yeah, Lakers.
18:12
And they've got the whole fans, every single one's holding their
18:15
phone and trying to capture the moment.
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And the only bike sitting there courtside was Phil Knight,
18:20
founder of Nike. He's just old fella sitting
18:22
there, the only one. Everyone had their cameras and
18:25
Phil Knights to sit in their legs crossed, just enjoying at
18:27
the moment. LeBron breaks the embarrassment.
18:29
Good. Active being actively being
18:32
present. Yeah, staying in the moment is a
18:35
skill. It's very difficult.
18:37
It's harder, the kids with my kids, like I want to capture
18:39
moments so you can relive them later.
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But then, yeah, it is just such a tricky balance that yeah,
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exactly. Then you're not enjoying the
18:45
current moment so much because you're half of your brains.
18:48
Yeah, because I heard you talk about before you take my girls
18:50
up skiing, so I'm sure you're trying to capture a bit of
18:52
skiing footy. No, no, I'm not well, No I'm
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not. You're not not good enough
18:56
skiing mate to be able to get. My phone.
18:58
You're a cannonball. Yeah.
18:59
I've been thinking about that the capturing moments is why do
19:03
we want to capture moments? And I and I think it's because
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we want to remember how we feel. And in that moment, we want to,
19:10
we want to have it later where we go.
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I felt that way. I want to feel that way again.
19:16
And I think there's a little bit of just trust.
19:19
You got to trust that when you put all yourself into something
19:22
and you and you and you do forego some of those photos,
19:25
that feeling will be there. That that Co created experience
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you've had that'll come when you sit down with that person later
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and it's and it's there and it's rather than getting out the
19:36
photo book, which is great. Don't get me wrong, there's a
19:38
place for it, But what you've the reason you've liked the
19:41
photos is because of the experience you've created with
19:43
the person. So if you double down on the
19:45
experience, it will be there in the future.
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Unfortunately, I don't think many people think that much into
19:51
it. It's it's habit.
19:52
Yeah, everyone's doing it and it's just habit.
19:55
It's easy to do. Yeah.
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I, I had AI was on a podcast a while back that was talking
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about men's mental health and an education or, and one of the
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things that came up, we got it. Guys got to talk.
20:10
You know, guys have to talk. Guys have to share their
20:11
feelings. Obviously Mens link is doing a
20:14
lot of educating in that space, but there's a reason it's not
20:17
happening. A lot of bikes don't talk for
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whatever reason. It is.
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What are you saying? Well, number one, it's hard.
20:26
Yeah. It's hard for young guys,
20:27
people. Why it it?
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And it's not young guys. It's hard for guys, everyone.
20:32
So you you actually. Is that society pressuring them
20:35
into making it hard? Is it just not taught the
20:37
skills? Is it like?
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I don't think it's been. Evolution, yeah.
20:42
That's AI mean. That's a very interesting
20:44
question. But what I do know is that you
20:46
have to set the environment up to talk.
20:48
So you do obviously have to have a safe space.
20:51
You do have to, as I was describing, you know, it's the
20:55
best way to talk to a fella is to, to go for a walk side by
20:58
side. You know, if, if you're going to
20:59
sit down and go, what's wrong, Matt?
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What's going on? It's like, well.
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That's the same with my daughters.
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Like that's when we got them in the car.
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Never get out of them at first if something that's all like
21:10
later in the evening or. Just comes.
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Out when you're not? Yeah.
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Comes out later. On so there's there's AI.
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Guess there's a way, but I think with our programmes it's really
21:20
about enabling and letting. Giving them the tools, yeah.
21:26
But just enabling, it's OK to say that, you know, a lot of a
21:29
lot of young guys might not have had that messaging in their
21:31
lives. That's OK to say that a lot of
21:35
young guys, I don't want to be critical anywhere.
21:39
A lot of young guys, their mums have done the talking for all
21:43
their entire life. So yeah, whatever the example
21:49
happens to be, mum will jump in first and say, Oh no, no, no,
21:52
Ben, Ben said that he's going to do this.
21:55
What did Ben actually say? You know, so we sort of see that
21:58
in counselling a little bit. So when when a mum comes in and
22:02
you know what's what's been going on, mum will jump in or
22:05
this is what's been going on. So the does the counsellor
22:08
straight away that's a red flag and try and go mum dear, maybe
22:11
you need to say a bit of. Counselling or Nah.
22:13
So commonly without counselling, it's really about counselling
22:17
with a young fella. So unless there's a.
22:20
But when the mother jumps? In we don't actually.
22:23
Well, you never. OK, Yeah.
22:24
We don't unless there's a very specific reason why mum needs to
22:28
be involved. It's not common that we have
22:30
mums involved for that reason, yeah.
22:33
I can also say it from mum's from my from my perspective
22:37
sometimes like I, I like to think that I'm a pretty present
22:40
father. But with that comes like your
22:44
kids are learning and you've obviously been through their
22:46
their face. Like I'd like to think I'm
22:48
smarter than a toddler. And but but you see them doing
22:52
something and you know, they're about to stuff up.
22:54
You know they're about to fall. You know what pitfalls they're
22:56
about to. And because I'm there, I've got
22:58
the choice of OK, do I let them fall?
23:02
Do I let them do this or and I have to actively step back And I
23:06
feel like that's. You're making that conscious
23:09
decision, which is really good a lot of the time.
23:11
It's hard for people. To It's very hard.
23:13
Because in the moment it would hurt the kids sometimes.
23:16
And that's. But overall or over the long
23:18
term it helps. Or if you want young guys to
23:21
speak, you got to you got to you got.
23:24
To let them, yeah. Do you do anything with parents?
23:29
The short answer is yes. We when we start our mentor
23:35
programme, our two year mentor journey, so we have a mother's
23:37
workshop and we continue to to engage with mums along that
23:40
journey. It's something that we actually
23:43
want to do. We're actually creating a
23:45
programme as it speaks with hopefully launch date in first
23:49
term 2026. So and and I don't want to get
23:54
the phrasing wrong because we haven't started, we haven't
23:57
worked out the phrasing, but we want to have a father's and
24:00
father and son course, but that could be an uncle.
24:07
So it could be this significant male Bromo in their life, might
24:10
be their uncle, could be an older brother, could be a
24:12
granddad, could be a dad. And the and the that pair comes
24:17
along and and learns to communicate better.
24:25
Can you share what you do in the mum's workshop or what's going
24:27
to be in the mum's workshop? So we do, yeah, it's a it's a
24:33
tough question. The the Mums workshop is about
24:38
informing the mum about what a mentor journey is.
24:41
So it's really trying to keep mum calm about it.
24:46
Because quite obviously, let's just use the example that it's a
24:50
mum from a single parent household and that her 12 year
24:54
old son that you know, has gone through the battles and the
24:56
journeys to 12 and then all of a sudden they're going to be
25:01
matched and paired with a male normal.
25:03
So it's, it's quite a confronting situation.
25:06
We totally acknowledge that. So we try and bring mums in and
25:10
obviously go through the safety of what our programme is and
25:12
the, the rigours that we have gone through to choose mentors
25:16
and why we've chosen. And so the process.
25:19
So it's really about talking about the process of what the
25:21
mentor programme is, but it's also giving the mums a chance to
25:26
talk about their journey. That's part of it, too.
25:29
Yeah, yeah, yeah, very much so. And that's, you know, we would
25:33
do an intake of something between 10 and 15 young fellas
25:37
and that might be say 3 * a year.
25:40
So we'll, we'll always have the mums in or the OR the guardian
25:44
or whoever's in charge of the young fella in, in for that
25:47
workshop. And then that enables them to
25:51
understand the men's link journey and be engaged as we go
25:54
through the entire programme. And trust it a bit more so it
25:57
can be as beneficial as possible.
26:01
I've got, I think one more question then and then, and then
26:05
a final question. But we, we.
26:06
Got two more questions? Yeah, yeah.
26:09
But. Just me just checking.
26:11
Let the man speak. I'm not your mum, mate.
26:17
I have gotten so much value out of writing journal and I think
26:23
one of the this is just a personal observation.
26:26
One of the reasons because I don't actually speak to my
26:30
friends or others general. Generally, I, I do a lot of it
26:34
internal and then I I'm happy to share it out into the world.
26:38
But one of the reasons I think people don't share is because I
26:42
don't understand what they're going through and they're
26:45
they're probably afraid of sounding silly.
26:48
And I think writing, even though they won't sound silly, I think
26:51
writing helps bridge that gap between silence and talking.
26:55
Does does it have a place in any of your programmes or
26:58
journaling? Absolutely journaling, not per
27:02
SE, but one of the one of the things that we do one of in the
27:08
programme is one of our programmes is the young fellows
27:11
write a letter to their mom and dad.
27:13
Yeah, awesome. Yeah, it's a crude form of
27:18
journaling. It's a beginning stage of
27:20
journaling. That's a great form.
27:21
Of journals, yeah, yeah, but and, and a young fellow's
27:24
probably never really done that. Putting it on paper, yeah.
27:28
Yeah, so, so technically, yeah, just a little bit different on
27:32
how we do it and then. Kind of indirect in the way that
27:36
you do other things as well. You don't ask them straight out,
27:39
no. It's very subtle.
27:40
Yeah, absolutely. And the there's obviously lots
27:45
of benefits to that, but it's positive feedback.
27:48
So you can guarantee that you've written a letter to your mom or
27:50
your dad telling him what you think.
27:54
Mom and dad are going to be pretty positive about it.
27:57
I can't imagine this what you love me, piss off, mate.
28:02
You're like, you're not going to get that.
28:03
So it's a really positive response to a young guy writing
28:06
about his feelings. So the chances of him developing
28:11
the confidence and the motivation to continue
28:14
journaling, because I know both of you guys are big on on the
28:17
journaling is really is a really good chance that that's going to
28:21
happen. We all know the benefits of
28:23
journaling. There's no doubt about that.
28:25
So to teach young guys that way very subtly, through really
28:29
positive experience, it's a good way to do it.
28:34
I'd never. I've never done that former
28:37
journaling reform, but I can see the benefit of it in we're
28:41
talking about getting the perspective.
28:42
Yeah, we're talking young blacks, we're talking 12/13/14
28:45
fifteen 16 year old blacks like. I'm going to do it because I
28:49
think it helps you put the shoe on the other foot when you're,
28:52
you talk about how you have that ripple effect, how what their,
28:56
what impact they have on others around them.
28:59
That writing that letter is a way of consciously thinking
29:04
about what impact or or what's. Happening and the letter doesn't
29:08
need to be long and complex, just start.
29:12
Just start. Like a lot of these young guys
29:14
would never have said, Mama, I really love you and thanks for
29:17
cooking dinner. Start with that mate.
29:20
Just start. That's a really powerful,
29:23
complicated mum. Mum's crumble.
29:25
Mum will crumble. She's never heard a young bloke
29:29
say that. Yeah, well, no, some of my
29:32
journal entries are stress at the moment.
29:36
I'll deal with it later, just as like a bit of a acknowledgement
29:40
and then come back. To it just just get you out of
29:42
your head. I mean, it's no, no different
29:44
than that method. If you're long awake at 3:00 AM
29:47
in the morning, it's like just get up and write it down.
29:51
Just clear get. Out of your brain.
29:52
Yeah, just get out of your brain.
29:54
It's it's very similar type mechanisms behind it.
30:00
Final question, Yeah, Yeah, there's one there's.
30:02
One might be 1 coming. In Benny's got a few too.
30:04
No, no, no, no. What are you?
30:06
What are you most excited about? The two more now.
30:09
What are you most excited about with Men's Link?
30:11
Coming up, so for men's link. And what can ioffer I do to
30:14
help? Yeah, thank you.
30:17
So it's very easy for organisations like Men's Link
30:21
and any community based organisation just to get style
30:25
and just continue to do the same thing because it's so hard, It
30:29
is so difficult just to survive. So you're like let's just keep
30:34
doing the same. OK, that's going to be good
30:36
enough. At least we're doing something
30:40
for Men's Link. We're very fortunate.
30:43
The staff that I have and the board that I have and the
30:46
outlook we have, we want to keep pushing, pushing programmes and
30:50
some will work better than others, but there's no doubt
30:54
that the need in our community is great.
30:58
We're really proud that we're going to stretch out into
31:01
Goldman, Yas, Kuma, Bangan Door, So Canberra and region, that's a
31:07
big thing for us. The other really big thing for
31:10
us is maturing into some online counselling.
31:15
So obviously face to face counselling is a really, that's
31:20
the gold standard. That's where you really it, it
31:23
really resonates and you, you can make some big differences,
31:26
but the truth is not every person, every young person can
31:30
actually get into a face to face session.
31:33
So that there's got to be a model and I don't know what the
31:36
model is going to turn out like, but it's got to be a model where
31:39
we can integrate some online counselling with some face to
31:43
face counselling and helping that young guy.
31:47
For us, helping that young guy in need.
31:50
That's got to be the first premise of what we do.
31:54
So for us, some some growth that way.
31:57
There's some some pain involved in that.
32:01
We're also very conscious of continuing to measure the impact
32:05
that we have. Now.
32:08
That sounds really easy, but that's a very difficult thing to
32:11
do and you got to stick with it. We're now going to attempt to do
32:17
that with our counselling programme too.
32:20
Again, there's lots of hurdles involved with that and it's not
32:24
commonly done. So we're really breaking new
32:27
ground with that because we want to be able to say in two or
32:31
three years time and particularly when you're
32:33
searching for funding sources, we can clearly identify the
32:37
impact that we're having with this cohort of people that come
32:41
to counselling. It takes a lot of resourcing, it
32:47
takes a lot of change and I acknowledge that.
32:51
But we're we are going to push on and get that done.
32:55
So we're excited by that and we're coming up here not too
32:59
long before it's our 25th year 25.
33:02
Yeah, which is it's sort of unbelievable.
33:05
It's when the male brain. Developed, isn't it?
33:08
I'm 60, so I'm still working. Yeah.
33:12
Maybe I'm just a slow developer. Yeah, me too.
33:14
Yeah. But Katie Gallagher, Senator
33:18
Gallagher spoke our business breakfast towards the back end
33:22
of our business breakfast. And normally we don't have the
33:26
political side of it. It's, it's, it's an apolitical
33:29
type thing. But Katie asked, can she just
33:31
say a few words of thanks to Mensling?
33:34
And she got up and she actually spoke about her mum, who was the
33:37
inaugural Southside Community Service CEO back in the 90s,
33:42
Mensling no, no, of Southside Community Services.
33:45
And she recalled the story of, of our inaugural chair, chair
33:51
CEO Richard Shanahan. And she remembers her mum, you
33:57
know, strategizing with Richard about how this was going to
34:01
men's link was going to break away from the community service
34:04
and be its own entity. And, and Katie talked about she
34:08
knew the importance of that, you know, 2025 years ago as it was
34:13
sort of gestation. And so for her to get up and and
34:16
speak about that was, I was just like, wow, that's pretty
34:20
impressive. You know, we've, we, we started
34:23
a long time ago for a community service and we're still kicking
34:26
goals, we're still helping young guys, and we still have a vision
34:29
to continue to improve. That's a big thing.
34:33
That's a really big thing. There's a lot of moving pieces
34:36
that have to come together and there's lots of balls in the air
34:39
that we continue to juggle. But there's lots of really good
34:43
people that are willing to say, yeah, like, what can we do?
34:48
What can we do? Just like you fellas, you.
34:50
Haven't given us an answer yet. And we can, but we in our
34:52
community. But I do want to just bring you
34:54
back to that point where we did meet right at the at the
34:58
beginning of running for resilience down at the pub and
35:03
we were trying to decide 2021 maybe, I don't know, I can't
35:08
remember. Yeah, I remember catching up
35:10
last year at the. Yeah, we put up Liam.
35:12
Yep. So I at least I know from myself
35:16
personally in men's link, we were sort of right at the
35:19
beginning of your journey too. We're running for rooms, might
35:21
not have been right at the start, but it's at the beginning
35:23
of the journey. And I'm very proud of that.
35:26
Running for resilience in the relationship that we're building
35:30
is organic. I don't think it needs to be
35:34
anything in flashing lights. There's lots of community or no?
35:39
Flashing screens. Flashing screens.
35:41
There's lots of community organisations that that come
35:44
along for running for resilience and you guys speak about them
35:46
very well. And I reckon that's that's
35:48
fantastic because shouldn't just be one, it shouldn't just be
35:51
two, it actually should be. Everybody has the opportunity.
35:55
Yeah, has the opportunity because that's the only way that
35:57
you'll move towards the suicide free in 2033.
36:01
Won't be just well, we just support men's link and that's
36:04
how it's like Nana, we need to do everybody.
36:07
So I'm really proud that what you guys have done, and I reckon
36:10
that's what can you do for us is can continue that holistic
36:17
standpoint. Can do and.
36:19
And come along to our events. Can do?
36:21
Yeah, you will. I'm apologies.
36:23
Oh, sorry. That's right.
36:24
Was that Monday? No, Yeah.
36:26
Sorry. Fair.
36:27
Fair enough. Fair enough, very sorry, but.
36:29
Yeah, I, but I, I see it as a really just healthy and
36:33
beneficial relationship, you know, from men's link side of
36:36
the fence, just the awareness of what men's link does has been
36:42
increased by partnering with running for resilience.
36:47
Hopefully we we just grow organically.
36:51
Is there anything specifically no?
36:54
It'll come, it'll just. We're just, we're just in it
36:57
together unless we want to organise a fun run, you know,
37:03
community fun runs. And you know, there's all sorts
37:04
of stuff that can happen in the future.
37:07
There's there's no hurry. You know, we're, we've got
37:09
enough on our plate. Let me tell you.
37:11
I mean, yeah, well, we feel like we for our part of putting on a
37:14
lot of events to bring people together is to try and be the
37:16
lighthouse that shines light on the support people need.
37:20
And so that hopefully this pods a part of that light and
37:23
hopefully we're shining on on you today.
37:25
And hopefully, yeah when we come across people yeah that need the
37:29
exactly what everyone knows exactly what men's link does.
37:32
And if they know a young fella in their neck of the woods and
37:35
they might chat to their parents and try and now Jim in your
37:38
direction. It's, it's just about awareness
37:41
and, and as I, I spoke about earlier, it's creating champions
37:45
and whether running for resilience champion or a
37:49
lifeline champion or men's length champion, you know,
37:52
they're still out helping. And you can be all of those.
37:56
You can be a lifeline and a running for resilience.
37:58
Because we know Carrie really well and she's very much backing
38:02
what we do and we very much back what she does.
38:06
So it's it's we're all together. Absolutely.
38:09
And this isn't a power play, but Ben, you are your champion and
38:14
mate, we meant it. The gold standard of the charity
38:17
sector. We love being in a relationship,
38:20
working towards the Suicide Free Canberra but differently and all
38:25
coming together. And yeah, we couldn't be prouder
38:28
of the work you're doing, but also the partnership we have.
38:31
Yeah, thanks. In one, in one or two words.
38:36
Come on, say in one or two words.
38:38
Before we wrap up, who should this podcast?
38:40
Who would you like to see on this podcast?
38:43
Or who would like to see on this?
38:44
Podcast Who would you like to see?
38:45
Wow, you didn't brief me on that question.
38:48
On anything, yeah, it's got got to be off the top of the Dome.
38:52
After yesterday's breakfast, Barry Javoir was fantastic.
38:57
But Barry Javoir? No, but.
39:00
Kenny Gallagher. Cam Sallings.
39:03
Cam Sallings. Cam Sellings Cam Sellings is
39:08
very generous to us at Men's Link.
39:09
He's been part of our programme. He is what a Men's Link champion
39:14
typifies. He's out in the community all
39:18
the time, obviously with his job, but always has a kind heart
39:22
for not immensely but other things.
39:24
I felt shocking when I saw that he MC Do you got your the
39:28
breakfast because he MC the hospital thing the night before
39:31
the hospital awards. I can't make him.
39:33
I'm going to be a bit tired and Cam hosted an amazing job with
39:37
the hospital, was a Monday night and then he backs up and sounds
39:40
like he did a great job as well. Yeah, it's unbelievable.
39:42
And he probably was out doing the Raiders on the weekend as.
39:44
Well, he went to Country Rugby League out in Leighton on
39:49
Sunday. It was crazy.
39:50
I'm like, Cam, seriously slow down.
39:53
But I didn't you know, Cam would be great because he he is, he is
39:57
Canberra. He'll he'll do it for anybody.
40:02
Well, his level of preparation for so Cam does our events now.
40:07
So he's done big night out business breakfast.
40:09
His level of preparation with Barry from my our background.
40:14
Preparation is key. If you're going to if you're
40:17
going to have a good event, you want a good.
40:19
You know, it's preparation. Cam spent a lot of time,
40:23
multiple hours reading, researching.
40:27
We had two long video conferences with Barry going
40:31
through the questions, the run sheet, Barry said to me that was
40:36
the most prepared that an organisation had come to him for
40:41
the presentation and it, it actually shows.
40:44
OK, so I I've you know, Cam selling or.
40:48
Preparation or something? Oh, Cam, if you're watching
40:50
mate, I'm gonna shoot you a text Cam.
40:52
Yeah, yeah. There you go.
40:54
Yeah, find a thing and get him in Ben.
40:55
Yep, Ben, thank you. Oh, thanks guys, appreciate it.
40:58
It's been a joy. I'm loving what you do love the
41:02
journey. Love seeing you guys mature and
41:05
and learn as you along along the journey too, because it's it'll
41:08
be great for you. Canberra suicide free 2033.
41:12
Let's have a crack at it. Yeah.
41:13
Hey, bro. Thank you.
41:15
Thanks.