Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / SCH 3 - Season Eleven (featuring James Lark & John Bensalhia)

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SCH 3 - Season Eleven (featuring James Lark & John Bensalhia) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

0:30
Welcome back to Strictly Come Hamster.
0:33
I am one of your hosts today, Joe Ford, and I am immediately
0:39
going to hand over to the more handsome, more charismatic, more
0:43
intelligent and completely underpaid host, Mr. Rob Brown.
0:49
Hello. Clearly unprepared.
0:50
Hey, Joe. I wondered who the hell you were
0:51
talking about then. Hello.
0:53
Good evening. How are you?
0:55
I've just dashed in from dinner so I'm a bit unprepared, but
0:57
I'll be fine. I'm sure you can wing it.
1:01
And we're on our first classic discussion on the classic series
1:03
tonight after two looks at the Modern series.
1:07
So that's that's very. About bloody time we've been
1:10
talking about all those video of Moffett stories.
1:11
This, yeah, a very different podcast today.
1:17
So yeah, thank you and welcome everyone to Strictly Come
1:20
Hamster, which is the Doctor Who Championship, the cast in which
1:24
every two weeks Joe and I chasse our way across the toy makers
1:27
dancing floor accompanied by two very special guests.
1:30
And together, as a group we're going to be ranking,
1:33
congratulating, condemning and reviewing a range of stories to
1:37
decide which one is going to pick up the cushion glitter ball
1:39
and who's going home to Peas Pottage.
1:42
So let's meet today's very special guests.
1:45
Gentlemen, would you like to introduce yourselves?
1:49
Who we're starting with. Let's start with James.
1:51
James is on the left, left to right.
1:53
Hello, I'm James. James Lark.
1:57
What more information do you need that's?
2:00
Oh, you've been on several of these before.
2:02
I I. I have, I'm proud to have
2:05
appeared on on various Hamster Book Club episodes, most
2:10
recently discussing the Glorious Dead with Joe, which I believe
2:13
has been a bit of a a bit of a a flash in the pan hit.
2:16
A triumph, I would say. Any chance for Christmas #1, do
2:20
you think with that, with that? No, the goblins have got that
2:23
one. If we have a Christmas number
2:26
one, I'm too square as scared someone's going to come out with
2:28
a shady tweet. Oh no, let's move on.
2:30
Don't worry, you don't want to know.
2:32
You don't know. Controversial.
2:34
All right. Moving swiftly on, we've.
2:36
Also got the Man of 1000 voices here.
2:40
The Mikey. I would have podcasting.
2:42
Yeah. No.
2:44
Well, maybe about same voices. Hello, I'm John.
2:47
John Bedside again and I've done a couple of commentaries with
2:50
Joey Pyramids and Mars. That was the latest one, wasn't
2:54
it? Pyramids and.
2:55
Mars. Yeah, Weber, Fear, City Death
2:59
and The Unspeakable One, Which? The Doctor, the Widow and the
3:02
wardrobe. That was our first.
3:05
What a place to start. Well, today we are in classic
3:09
series territory, so we are in season 17.
3:12
Season 17, God, I'm losing the plus already Season 11.
3:16
I find everyone did. I could see everyone panic them.
3:20
I've been watching The Curse of Peloton for nothing.
3:23
Monster peloton. You've you've caught it off me,
3:25
Chains. Oh no, no, I didn't watch the
3:28
monster. But you haven't.
3:29
Done Season 9 have you? This could be a very interesting
3:34
podcast. We're doing season 11, So John
3:37
Paul. Season 11, yeah.
3:39
Series Eleven. No, I'm joking.
3:42
Sorry, Golf. So before we get in to talk
3:45
about the individual stories, I think what be really interesting
3:47
is just to talk generally about the series as a whole and when
3:51
did you first experience it? When did you first see it?
3:53
How did you first see it? What are you kind of how do you
3:56
feel about it? Then how do you feel about it
3:57
now? Just general kind of overview of
4:01
your general feelings about the the series that's let's start
4:03
with the guests. Let's start with James.
4:05
Well, some of these I watched on VHS back in the day when when
4:10
Doctor Who was sort of like gold dust, but Jon Pertwee seemed to
4:13
be everywhere. They kept repeating his stories
4:16
on on BBC Two and for for whatever reason people seemed to
4:22
have a lot of his stuff. Dave that everyone had Dave the
4:24
Daleks when I was growing up. And so I think the first one
4:29
that I borrowed was the Time Warrior.
4:33
If if it wasn't that it was Planet of the Spiders.
4:35
But I'm pretty sure that came later because that was a sort of
4:37
double double VHS, one of those big fat VHS boxes.
4:42
But I watched I I was certainly in in my teens and probably my
4:47
early teens when I saw both of those stories and I then I sort
4:51
of caught up bit by bit that I didn't watch Death to the Daleks
4:57
until actually relatively late on.
5:01
So it's quite, quite a spread in terms of the the order in which
5:04
I experienced them. And last time I I watched it
5:09
apart from kind of the last couple of weeks when I've been
5:12
desperately revising because I understand this is a very
5:14
serious process that we're going to go through in a moment.
5:18
I was in my my marathon of Doctor Who, and at the time I
5:23
considered season 11 about as complacent as Doctor Who had
5:28
been so far. Oh.
5:30
Ouch. OK, interesting.
5:32
I'm sure we all come to that when we come to the stories,
5:35
John. Well, I well the problem was.
5:39
I mean I was, I was born three months after the last part of
5:44
Planet of the Spiders. So I honestly don't know if I,
5:48
you know, managed to catch the because they used to do
5:51
Christmas repeats in the in the mid 70s.
5:55
So I don't know if I would have caught the Christmas repeat.
5:59
Maybe. Maybe I did in my high chair and
6:01
you know you know chowing down on Christmas Turkey at three
6:06
months old. But yeah, I mean like, like
6:09
James, I first experienced season 11 with the videos, so it
6:14
would have been Death of a Daleks first, which was
6:17
Christmas 1989. I remember my granddad, who was
6:23
a big Doctor Who fan. He used to love it and he was
6:26
delighted that I got the present.
6:28
So he watched that on Christmas Day instead of a movie.
6:31
Definitely what it was on that on that day, Planet Spiders
6:36
August 91. And again, it was one of those
6:39
great, big clunky VHS boxes that you know, you needed, you know
6:44
you, you needed weight training to love those down.
6:47
I love those back home because it was so bloody heavy.
6:51
So yes, I bought that. Yes, it was when I passed my GCS
6:57
ES and I've got done reasonably well.
7:00
Ish. So yeah, I've got that.
7:02
Then it was Monster Pelagon, which wasn't until quite a while
7:05
later I think it was blah blah blah blah 2003.
7:11
I think it was, I think it was in an H&D sale back in the days
7:16
when we used to go and, you know, buy things from H&D.
7:20
Then Invasion of the Dinosaurs, which was the single tape video
7:24
and it part one is in black and white and it just looks weird
7:28
and ironically and I've been searching for the video for so
7:31
long and I never found it. I used to go to every charity
7:35
shop in the area and I never found it.
7:38
But when the Time Warrior finally came out on DVD in
7:42
September 2007, I think it was and that that was when I finally
7:46
got to see. Yeah.
7:49
But I've got to say I I really like season 11.
7:52
I I think it's got. I think it's probably one of the
7:56
most underrated seasons in the run I.
7:59
Think we've got two quite diametrically opposed to use
8:02
that. Well, I should say I've I have
8:04
slightly revised my view on on on my rewatch of the last couple
8:09
of weeks. I've had a great time watching
8:10
it, OK? Interesting, Joe, what about
8:14
you? Two of these I watched to Death
8:18
when I was very young, Time Warrior and Death to the Daleks,
8:23
so people can tell me to they're blue in the face that the music
8:25
and Death to the Daleks is terrible.
8:28
And I still think it's one of the greatest pieces of music
8:31
I've ever heard. And I know every single beat.
8:34
It's it's the Mr. Ben thing tune, isn't it?
8:36
I'm sure it is. People say that music, when they
8:38
come out of the ship is not scary.
8:40
To me, age 5 years old, it was terrifying.
8:45
I planned out the spiders I came to really, really late.
8:49
My mate Matt Dillon had the VHS copy of that and he was always
8:52
saying to me, oh, I'll lend it to you, don't buy it.
8:54
So your mom saved some money, I'll lend it.
8:56
And he never did. So I didn't get that until they
8:58
came out on DVD, which feels like much, much lesser than
9:00
everything else. Monster pelas.
9:02
And I got on video and the tracking went on it and I
9:07
refused to buy another copy because it was so boring.
9:11
I have revised my opinion on it a little bit.
9:13
Ashley So I'm not. I'm I'm still leaving my power.
9:15
I don't think it's entirely terrible, but and what's the
9:19
other one? Oh, invasion of the dinosaurs.
9:20
That was the last VHS release, but I first watched that.
9:25
Was it the last ever? Yeah, it was the.
9:27
Last ever on the web of fear. Oh, it was late though, wasn't
9:30
it? Yeah, over 2003 it came out.
9:34
There was an occasion when UK Gold was broadcast in Doctor
9:38
Who's stories at sort of 7:00 in the morning or something.
9:43
And I remember after a very drunk night out, I've gone to
9:48
Brighton, an amazing shag, and I slept on the beach and I got the
9:53
first train home at 5:00 in the morning and watched Invasion of
9:58
the Dinosaurs Half Cut. And it was amazing, absolutely.
10:02
Best evening ever. I I'll tell you what the climax
10:06
for that evening. You.
10:07
You. Couldn't do that.
10:08
That's one for your veterans, isn't?
10:10
It I think I agree with John. I think 11 is hugely
10:13
undervalued. You can see where it where Barry
10:17
and Terrance are looking at Moon Base 3 occasionally, but I think
10:23
the stories are still pretty solid.
10:25
I just think the team of the 3rd Doctor and Sarah is so
10:29
refreshing and I think it's Sarah Jane at her best in this
10:33
season, so I I think it's great. Fine, I've I've realized, Joe,
10:37
what my role on this podcast going to be, and that's going to
10:40
be the old man who says I remember watching this first
10:43
time round. Because I do.
10:45
So I know I. Know it didn't.
10:47
Matter so much with the new series, but now?
10:49
No, I know. I've realized that my age and
10:51
myself. So yeah, I was born in the
10:53
ancient days of 66, So I was 7 when it started and eight when
10:58
it finished. So I have huge memories of of
11:01
watching this. I was absolutely bizarre to a
11:03
Doctor Who from before I could speak, I think So I have very,
11:07
very clear memories of this. Time Warrior was the first time
11:12
we had a color TV, so it was the 1st Doctor Who series.
11:15
I've seen one episode at a friend's house in color and then
11:19
nagged my parents incessantly to get a color TV after that.
11:23
So we had a color TV from Time Warrior onwards.
11:26
So that's really clear. I remember the dinosaurs as
11:29
being tremendous. Maybe I've revised my opinions
11:33
on that a little bit, but at 7:00 they were absolutely
11:36
terrifying. Remember being routed to the
11:38
spot? I remember absolutely breaking
11:41
my heart when John Purtway regenerated.
11:45
And I do remember I was inconsolable, I think, for the
11:48
entire night. I mean, it was just, you know,
11:50
the most traumatic thing that could happen to a child.
11:52
And a neighbor, very unusually, came across the road that night.
11:57
And I remember I was in floods of tears and that he was looking
11:59
very oddly at me, wondering whether I was, you know, a
12:02
victim of child abuse. And then my parents kind of just
12:06
looking very dismissively at saying, oh, Doctor Who's died.
12:09
Don't worry about him. It's just Doctor Who pushed me
12:12
in a corner. But yeah, I've just have loads
12:15
of memories of the season going through.
12:18
I loved it at the time. Probably revised my opinion a
12:21
little bit since I don't think it's the strongest of the period
12:24
were years, but there's still a lot of cold in there.
12:28
Fabulous. So a couple of questions for you
12:31
then before we go into the stories, Joe Grant or Sarah.
12:37
Oh. That's a toughie.
12:39
Oh, that's. A good one.
12:42
Let's go to John first. Yeah, thanks.
12:48
I mean they're they're both kind of different dynamics.
12:50
So it's very kind of choose, though very hard to choose one
12:54
of the other. With Joe, there's, you know,
12:56
there's obviously that that big friendship that John Perkwee and
13:01
Katie Manning had and that comes through in spades on their
13:05
stories. But like Joey said, I really
13:08
like the the new dynamic between John Perkwee and Elizabeth
13:12
Slayden. It's a little, it's a little bit
13:14
more grown up. I mean, you know, Sarah Jane
13:16
doesn't really say how high. If Perkwee asks her to jump that
13:23
there's a lot more kind of, yeah, just a slightly more
13:26
mature relationship, I think. But you know, and she's, you
13:29
know, she's feisty and she's, she's independent and she's
13:35
pretty much everything that Joe wasn't.
13:37
Although having said that, Joe did become more independent in
13:41
in her last season, you know, Season 10, you know, she goes
13:43
off and does the right thing. So I've completely crushed that
13:48
argument after that. So that was a complete waste of
13:51
time. But I'm going to duck out and
13:53
say I think, I think both of them.
13:56
So I'm going to come down on one side of the fence and say Sarah
13:59
Jane Smith. But, and this is one thing on
14:02
which I have not revised my view, but one one thing that
14:05
seemed really clear to me on on this rewatch I've I've tended to
14:09
assume that Sarah Jane really kind of came into her own as Tom
14:14
Baker's companion and benefited from a change of doctrine, a
14:20
change of production team, and being a brilliant actress.
14:23
Elizabeth Stadium was able to use all of those things to build
14:27
this character. What was clear to me watching it
14:30
back this time was how fully formed the character is, I would
14:34
say in the performance more than the writing.
14:39
I actually think she takes a few seeds in the way that the
14:42
character's written and runs with them and builds this
14:45
character that is is much better in the realization than it maybe
14:49
was on paper. And the other thing that was
14:51
clear is how much this benefits Jon Pertwee's performance, which
14:56
suddenly kind of finds a new lease of life in his final
14:59
season. A new sense of humour, a new as
15:03
John says it's, it's slightly more adult.
15:04
There's certainly the relationship is slightly more
15:06
adult, and there's something brilliant about the fact that
15:08
she doesn't even really start out as a companion.
15:11
She wanders in the TARDIS for for a couple of episodes.
15:14
She's actually thinks she's she's fighting the Doctor, which
15:17
is a a master and, you know, comic masterstroke, but but also
15:21
gives her this amazing independence that she's she's
15:24
creating relationships with a whole different set of
15:26
characters and coming up with plans to to defeat the Doctor.
15:29
But you know she returns to Earth in in Dinosaurs and and
15:32
she and there's nothing saying that she's going to carry on
15:34
travelling with him. You know that's not a done deal
15:37
and even in Death of the Daleks it seems like it's a one off
15:40
trip. She's she's very reluctant to
15:41
step in there. So she comes into the series as
15:45
her own character with her own agenda and I think that's does
15:50
the series of a world of good actually.
15:52
I think she's incredible. I think she's really good in
15:54
this season and I think Jon Pertwee pulls it out of the bag,
15:58
you know, sort of gives as good as he gets with her.
16:02
He's straight away. He's winding her up as soon as
16:05
he knows who she is. He's like when he saw him around
16:07
here to make the coffee and she's like, if you think I'm
16:10
going to spend more time making cups of coffee for you, it's a
16:13
great. Report.
16:14
It's so lovely. And the way he sort of whenever
16:17
he looks at her in those first couple of stories especially,
16:19
it's with this, this rye grin, as if he's sort of enjoying
16:24
watching her make these discoveries and he's going to
16:26
let her to her own pace. But he knows he's really in
16:28
charge. It's lovely.
16:31
I love the bit in Planet the Spiders as well, where she's
16:33
trying to explain about all the stuff that's going on at the
16:36
monastery. Yeah, listen to a word of it, is
16:39
it. They're so great to get, but
16:40
it's almost like they're equals in a way that him and Joe never
16:43
were. I mean, my answer is it's tough.
16:47
I think in terms of chemistry, it's John Perry and Katie
16:51
Manning. I just don't think their
16:53
chemistry was bested in that era because they just adored each
16:56
other as a companion is Sarah Jane for sure, because she has
17:01
the agency to actually drive the stories in this season in a way
17:04
that Joe Grubb possibly wouldn't if she wasn't being tied up or
17:09
twisting her ankle or whatever's going on this week.
17:12
Except as John said, possibly in season 10 where she does do bit
17:17
of plot driving. So no, I'm gonna say Sarah as
17:20
well. Yeah, for me, I kind of
17:22
nostalgia drives me to say Joe. I mean, of all the companions
17:26
throughout 60 years, Elizabeth Slade is by far and away my
17:29
favorite. But there's something about that
17:31
nostalgia about Joe and John Purtway, and it is different
17:35
with with Elizabeth Slade. I mean, she's fantastic from
17:37
that. She's so much more naturalistic.
17:39
I think that's what makes it for me that she's just all the
17:43
little looks and the winks and the kind of body language that
17:46
that Elizabeth Sladen did that just makes her feel like a
17:48
rounded person. I was supposed to just acting,
17:51
acting a role that just think she's magnificent, but the
17:54
nostalgia factor probably brings me a little bit back to Joe.
17:57
But it's so hard to choose between, isn't it?
18:00
I think you got 3 brilliant companions in the poet era, so
18:03
choosing between them is tough. And three very different
18:07
companions as well. Very.
18:10
I've got one more question for you.
18:11
Who mobile yay or nay? Oh.
18:13
God. Yay.
18:16
Say yay, I like it. I think it's it's.
18:20
Perfect for John Perth we start again.
18:22
It wouldn't make any sense with. I mean, I can't imagine, can't
18:25
imagine William Hartnell driving The Who mobile, can you?
18:28
But. I would love to see that.
18:31
I could definitely imagine trouncing driving.
18:32
Joe is now imagining William Hartnell driving The Who mobile.
18:35
So, yeah, demonstrably you can imagine it in fact.
18:37
Picking up Picking up Jackie Hill on the way to rehearsals.
18:40
Yeah, I'm. I'm picturing it now I.
18:46
I think, oh, I mean, I'm so camping, but.
18:48
It's just everything about it. It is very camp.
18:51
Our camp only purwee, yeah. But then it makes me laugh that
18:55
later on, John Purwee, one of his famous anecdotal
18:58
conventions, was he was always berating canine, saying always
19:01
too childish and too clipped, have a robot dog.
19:04
But he had let the alien car flying around.
19:06
Like. Not really sure you should be.
19:09
Throwing It's insane as a car, but when it starts flying
19:15
somewhere else, yeah. You get the feeling, Barry Ladd
19:18
said. Oh, OK, John, it's your last
19:19
series. We'll let you have this one.
19:21
Whatever you want. Yeah, OK, Well, we give up
19:24
fighting with you. You can have it.
19:25
We're leaving shortly. Brilliant, Thank you chaps.
19:30
OK, so before we get into the stories, Joe, we've had loads of
19:33
readers comments about the season overall.
19:36
So should we deal with some of those?
19:38
Or you you do the first one. Slide kick off, right.
19:41
So Paul Eilert said it's my favorite poetry season, possibly
19:44
because as the amazing Sarah Trent Smith in it, but all the
19:47
stories are incredibly strong. It's nice to move clearly away
19:50
from the Doctor being stranded on Earth.
19:53
Interesting. Anthony Carroll says.
19:57
It's the worst part. We season.
19:59
Sarah Jane is wonderful. And the Time Warrior And the
20:02
Time Warrior. Sorry, six episode stories are
20:05
too slow. Well, that's indicative of the
20:08
entire era. Not just 11, but thank you,
20:11
Anthony. Mark Cochran, friend of the
20:13
podcast, said the best bit of season 11 is the regeneration of
20:16
the plums of spiders and the arrival of the best doctor, so I
20:19
think we know where Mark's loyalties are.
20:22
Gary Russell says the worst bit of season 11 is the regeneration
20:26
in Planet of the Spiders and the departure of the Best Doctor.
20:29
Yeah. So I think we we've got two very
20:31
different. I think it's becoming quite
20:32
clear that this this season definitely divides people,
20:37
Daniel Knight said. It's regarded as the poor
20:39
relation of the five poetry seasons, but I enjoy it.
20:41
Dinosaurs are monster are better than their reputation, Death has
20:44
great nostalgia value and the Time Warrior is great despite
20:47
Alan Bromley's uninspired direction.
20:50
We need to talk about that. I want to dispel that myth, Dave
20:54
Rennie says. Season 11 is very underrated.
20:58
It introduces the marvelous Elizabeth Slayden and has some
21:01
bangers. He's not talking about Elizabeth
21:03
Slade in there, is he? Let's hope.
21:04
Not there's probably more Katie Manning, but let's let's draw a
21:08
veil over that one swiftly, Paul Quinn said.
21:11
A super season which doesn't always receive the love it
21:14
deserves, presumably because the received wisdom that Delgado's
21:17
death prompted the next US, marking the end of an era and
21:20
didn't probably want to stay but outpriced himself.
21:23
There's a lot to be said for seeing how they managed without
21:25
Delgado in a run of stories that continue the reduction of unit
21:29
that began in Season 11 or Season 10 weirdly and
21:33
simultaneously in Echo and the reverse of Season 7.
21:36
Always a smart chap. It's a good point actually,
21:39
isn't it? Do do we miss Delgado in this
21:42
last series? Because there was, I mean, we
21:45
all know the story that you know that it was written as the final
21:48
game was supposed to be the end of her way with the Doctor and
21:51
the Master in in big climactic confrontation.
21:55
But do we miss him? No, I don't think we do.
21:57
And I and I think it has to do with this new companion dynamic,
22:00
actually. I think that, as I said, Jon
22:03
Pertwee's playing it with more, slightly more of a sense of
22:05
humor than than ever before. I think it's a little bit like
22:09
he knows it's his last season. I don't know when he did the
22:12
deal or when he made the decision, but it feels a little
22:15
bit like he's decided to have a bit of fun on his way out.
22:19
And I'm not sure that would have.
22:20
I'm not sure how that would have worked with the with the Master
22:22
and the dynamic, but actually the fact that the stories are
22:26
all kind of self-contained I think adds to that slightly kind
22:29
of holiday atmosphere to the whole thing.
22:31
And it also kind of feels a little bit like a soft reboot.
22:34
You know, you've got, you know, a new companion, you've also got
22:37
new titles and it just kind of feels like a, you know, it's
22:40
kind of resetting the button a little bit.
22:43
So I I don't know. I mean it's yeah, obviously, you
22:47
know we don't have the the greatest master anymore which is
22:51
a shame. But it it does kind of feel like
22:53
it's it's on a new course I think.
22:56
I think it's very strange that Sarah Jane misses out on the
22:59
master, both sides of her era by a couple of stories.
23:04
He bows out just before she starts and he's back just after
23:06
she leaves, Melvin Pena says. This is the blockbuster season
23:12
for Pertwee's final bite of the apple, especially with precious
23:15
Liz in to manage the transition. Jason Thompson, who's on our
23:20
last podcast, said the season as a whole really changed in my
23:23
estimation when I did my first marathon watching one or two
23:25
episodes a night, the six passes are a chore to sit through in
23:29
one go. It's not the first time that's
23:30
been said, but spread out as intended.
23:32
Let's not forget they work really well.
23:36
The intriguingly named Mighty Meep says it's not my favorite
23:40
part we season, but I still enjoy it a lot.
23:42
There's so much going on. Sarah instantly having great
23:46
chemistry with the Doctor, Yase's betrayal and dealing with
23:49
trauma. A humbler Dr. accepting the need
23:51
to pay for his adventurousness. An excellent character study.
23:56
Big Orange, Michael said. It's easy to say the purwee
23:59
isn't as engaged, but that really comes later on in the
24:02
season after death to the Dalek's way.
24:04
Seems a bit bored at times. Where were these names coming
24:08
from? Limb Limb King, the Ape says
24:13
outstanding. I was never a huge fan of
24:15
Purpley's Doctor, but re watched the whole run during COVID and
24:18
fell in love with his stuff whilst not quite hitting the
24:21
peaks of Tom's era. They're stories I come back to
24:24
most often. Proper comfort blanket stuff.
24:27
I Darren said. It's a great season.
24:29
That's the Daleks and Time Warrior, what early VHS
24:31
releases. So some of my first Purpley
24:33
experiences. I'm very nostalgic.
24:36
Oh, Smy says Season 11 is a bit hit miss for me, a bit like the
24:40
Purpley era as a whole. Eric White said.
24:44
One of my earliest memories. Lots of great stuff.
24:47
And finally for you very patient gentleman watching Melton, Rob
24:51
says. I must be rare as I actually
24:54
enjoy all the stories from that season.
24:56
I don't have a favorite, or at least favorite.
24:58
I'll happily watch any of them. Fantastic and doesn't lead us
25:03
neatly onto round one of tonight's show.
25:07
So in round one, round one is our knockout round.
25:12
So what we're going to do is we've got five stories, we're
25:14
all going to pick one story and then we'll argue over who's
25:17
going to do the final one. But each of us is going to pick
25:19
one story and in time, honoured hamster tradition, we're going
25:22
to give three reasons why it should either stay in the
25:25
competition or you can give three reasons why it can be
25:28
knocked out. And your job is to persuade and
25:32
control the rest of us to your way of thinking.
25:36
So let's let's start. I think it's only fair that we
25:38
start with our guests. So John James, who feels?
25:43
Who feels the most passionate about either defending or
25:48
defaming one of the stories from season 11?
25:53
Well, I like them all. Even Monster of Pedal I think
25:56
has got lots. Of Well, you've got five to
25:57
choose from, then. Go on then John you've you've
26:00
oh. Right.
26:01
OK well I'm going to pick my favorite one of the season,
26:07
which is Invasion of Dinosaurs and I think it's probably one of
26:12
the most underrated adventures. And for years it would get like
26:17
2 out of 10 schools in like the. I think it's the Official
26:20
Handbook of a both the reviewers given 2 out of 10 which I think
26:24
is mad. Yeah, I gave the dinosaurs look
26:27
crap. There's no way they'd pass a
26:30
muster today. But if you're really watching
26:32
Doctor Who for the effects, then you're watching the wrong show.
26:35
And I think the script is is just absolutely superb and I
26:38
think it's really structural. Well, I think it's directed well
26:41
as well. I think if you ignore the
26:43
visual, the the dinosaurs, the rest of the visuals actually
26:47
look superb. I think all that, you know,
26:50
creepy empty location work in part one, which Paddy Russell, I
26:54
think she filmed three weeks before and she went, she and a
26:59
cameraman went in a car and drove around London and she got
27:04
these establishing shots and she really got a money's worth, I
27:07
think. And it's also got a great cast
27:09
as well. It's got some really good,
27:11
really good guest actors. He's got Peter Miles, John
27:15
Bennett, Edith from a lower low God.
27:21
What's it? Harman Silvera.
27:23
Harman Silvera. Yeah, sorry.
27:27
My my brain is fried and also and one thing that I really
27:33
enjoy is it kind of takes away the coziness of the unit there
27:36
by making Mike Yates a traitor. I mean you know the Richard
27:41
Franklin says he's not a trader but he's a trader thing.
27:44
You know he he sells out to to unit and I think that is a
27:48
brilliant twist and it's it's quite, I think it's actually
27:52
quite daring for the period. I think it's actually, you know
27:56
them trying to do something a little bit different with the
27:59
format and I think it really works.
28:02
So yeah, I think there's a whole load of reasons why you can
28:06
enjoy this. Fantastic.
28:09
Well, thank you for that. Let's go in and see what some of
28:14
our listeners had to say about we have loads of comments about
28:16
invasion, the dinosaurs. It's really interesting.
28:18
Some of these stories had very few comments and some have had
28:22
Blues of comments and Invasion of Dinosaurs.
28:24
We had loads so let's start with our so sigh.
28:27
Hearts at Dinosaurs is best of the season without a doubt.
28:30
Great plot. Sarah leaves their own story.
28:32
The dinosaurs are OK, not as bad as made out.
28:35
I'm per we bashes A pterodactyl with a mop.
28:37
Yates's story is so good too. The unthinkable happening.
28:40
The first episode is really strong.
28:44
Tony Filer as one line he says dinosaurs is a cracking story
28:49
with some dodgy plastic beasties.
28:52
James H said Unlike the puppets, this story has bowls.
28:55
Not. Always, not always successful,
28:58
but it definitely has ambition and multiple plots.
29:01
David Gillespie Pratt says ignore the puppets and it's a
29:05
great story unworthy of its reputation.
29:08
The cliffhanger where Sarah wakes up on the spaceship is a
29:10
series best. Also it has one of the heroes
29:13
turned traitor as John just said, which Doctor Who doesn't
29:17
deal with that often and takes guts.
29:20
Lovely Lucy McCall says she loves that Sarah Jane has her
29:23
own plot on the spaceship. She also loves the dynamic
29:25
between her and the Doctor, the twist and the turns, the plots
29:28
with Yates's betrayal and Benson's loyalty.
29:31
She likes the dinosaurs. OK, so we've got our first vote
29:34
for the dinosaurs, But Lucy points out they're not the real
29:37
threat that humans are, and they're truly scary, especially
29:41
calm Silvera's Ruth. Jason Thompson has not scraped
29:46
on the detail as usual and says I I curse received fan with them
29:51
for making me put up put off seeing this until I got Avhs
29:54
release. I loved it.
29:56
The dinosaurs are generally rubbish sure, although the
29:59
scenes of the T Rex waking up in the hangout also pretty good all
30:02
things considered. But the story around them is
30:04
great. It also has a top Benton moment
30:07
where he could pretend the Doctor overpowered him and the
30:09
Brig would believe it, but he doesn't.
30:11
He lets the Doctor action go overpower him.
30:13
That's loyalty. Michael Storm said invasion
30:17
would have been topped, but there are enough petty
30:19
annoyances to keep it off, the dinosaurs not being any one of
30:22
them. I wonder what his annoyances
30:24
were, but maybe we'll pick that up when we discuss it in a
30:27
minute. Anthony Carroll To base a show
30:30
on dinosaurs that don't work is shoddy.
30:34
Don't mince your words, Anthony, Jeff Richardson said.
30:37
Best purely for the enemy of the world's subplot.
30:39
And Sarah's quite to expose the secrets.
30:42
It's a wonderful cookie says. For me, Invasion of the
30:45
Dinosaurs is not only the best of season 11, but an all time
30:48
top tenor. I'm noticing a positive trend
30:50
here. Beautifully written, maybe the
30:52
first, the best first episode in all of who Beautiful stuff.
30:57
John Llewellyn said, very simply.
30:58
Awesome. Great story and direction.
31:01
And finally, Mark Donahue Dinosaurs would be hailed as a
31:04
classic if it had good monster effects.
31:07
Fingers crossed for the Blu-ray. So obviously John has lobbied us
31:14
heavily for including and keeping dinosaurs in.
31:19
So what do we think as a panel? James, let's come to you first.
31:21
Is that a yay or a nay? Are you agreeing with John or
31:23
not? I agree with everything that has
31:26
been said about dinosaurs. I I think in terms of pure
31:29
enjoyment, it's one of the ones in this.
31:33
It's probably my favorite in the season to watch.
31:35
I think everything that's good about it is not done as well as
31:40
it could be or should be. And that's where I mentioned
31:44
complacency. And I just think there's so much
31:48
about invasion of the dinosaurs that we've seen better done
31:51
elsewhere. The first episode, I'm, I'm an
31:54
absolute sucker for deserted London stories.
31:56
Dalek, Invasion of Earth first episode, it, it's very
32:02
atmospherically filmed but they bungle it.
32:04
Halfway through the episode they suddenly cut to a scene with
32:06
unit in and all this mystery. That's this this dread this
32:09
horror this, this. This The unknown is destroyed in
32:13
a single scene because we're suddenly with union.
32:15
It's like, oh, it's an emergency and the Unit in control.
32:18
They should absolutely have seen the whole episode.
32:20
From the Doctor and Sarah's point of view, they should not
32:22
have left off. There's there's an episode of
32:25
The Avengers called The Morning After which it's not London,
32:28
it's St. Albans.
32:29
But they they they managed to keep about 2530 minutes of the
32:32
episode going with without giving away any of the story,
32:35
which is just as well when the story arrives, it's actually not
32:38
that good, but but it's all atmosphere.
32:40
I mean that can be said about a lot of Avengers episodes.
32:43
It's a great episode because it's so it builds up so much
32:47
tension by not showing, by by just showing images of things
32:50
happening and and you don't know what's going on.
32:52
Invasion of the dinosaurs could have been like that.
32:55
I would also cite the the brilliant cliffhanger to episode
32:58
3 where Sarah was on a spaceship and suddenly it's like she's
33:02
been on a spaceship for three months.
33:03
The very next scene in episode 4, we're back with UNIT, and
33:07
it's absolutely clear from that moment on that that she hasn't
33:10
been in a spaceship for three months.
33:11
She can't have been because scenes are carrying on from
33:13
where we were last week. Even Mike Yates and I think it's
33:17
brilliant that Mike Gates is a traitor and yes he's a traitor
33:21
and and I think that's that's the potential for something so
33:24
profoundly good there. And Richard Franklin plays it
33:26
really well. There's this just this hint that
33:28
the events of the green death caused a kind of breakdown and
33:32
he he does that really in his it's a single line.
33:35
I think he he, he delivers that all in his performance, but he
33:38
never gets to justify his position and and what literally
33:42
says about it is so kind of badly argued.
33:46
You kind of think, well has he just kind of had a breakdown and
33:49
actually there was the potential for him to be the idealist that
33:53
Mike Yates was from day one and really capitalize on that aspect
33:56
of his character. He doesn't get a proper send
33:58
off. He pulls a gun on the Doctor and
34:00
he gets, you know, he gets taken out.
34:01
And I really feel to do that kind of level of character
34:05
development and then not deliver on it properly is is a great
34:09
crime. So I love dinosaurs, but I feel
34:12
like it's so much of it is slightly rehashing former
34:16
glories. I love the scenes of Pertwee in
34:18
the Jeep. I love the scenes where he's,
34:20
you know, running around the streets on his own.
34:22
But we've seen it all done better in earlier poetry
34:24
stories. You know, a lot of the action
34:26
sequences feel like a kind of a last gasp, you know, a harking
34:31
back to the Havoc days and not quite doing it as well.
34:35
Sorry. Are you keeping this in though
34:39
Even so despite those nickels? Yeah, let's let's keep it in.
34:44
Fabulous. It's really interesting.
34:46
You can talk with James because the first two reasons I had for
34:49
keeping this in was episode one and the episode 3 cliffhanger.
34:53
While you. Were saying that episode one I
34:56
absolutely got exact, and I've written down something very
34:58
similar to what you said about the kind of halfway jolt, the
35:01
beginning of episode one feels like we're going back to season
35:04
seven a little bit. It's got that grittiness and
35:07
earthiness to it. You've got looters and you know,
35:10
Renault's being revved like The Sweeney.
35:12
It doesn't feel like the kind of cozy power stations that we've
35:16
seen in the intervening unit years.
35:17
It's quite. Refreshing later.
35:19
It is. It is.
35:20
It feels like it's got that grittiness again.
35:22
And then as you're absolutely right, you go back to the cozy
35:25
unit. Sorry, John.
35:27
You've got the bloody corpse of the Lutra as well.
35:30
You don't say. That's all nice.
35:31
And the first shot from that playground and the abandoned
35:35
toys, it's got some really stylish direction in there.
35:38
And even the dog sniffing up the car, it's got like almost like a
35:40
survivor's feel to it, doesn't it?
35:42
Absolutely. And it has got like grittiness.
35:44
So I was saying, I was saying as you kind of rewatching it now
35:47
through kind of adult eyes, I felt sense of disappointment
35:50
when we went to the cozy unit set up and it just felt like,
35:52
oh, you're showing your hand a little bit too early and even
35:55
revealing just. For you to come in in Part 2,
35:57
didn't they just have that whole first episode?
36:00
Exactly. And and don't show the T Rex as
36:03
good or bad as he is until the. Clifford show him absolutely
36:07
leave it. Why do?
36:07
You throw 3 minutes before the cliffhanger.
36:09
Exactly. When he's just bursting through
36:11
our building. Love that.
36:16
There are some, yeah, but episode one is still a great
36:19
episode. Episode 3, cliffhanger is still.
36:22
I kind of had a slightly different take away.
36:24
And then maybe it's looking at through kind of modernized,
36:27
although his childhood didn't get it, but that probably went
36:29
to seven. But I think the fact that we're
36:31
still seeing Sarah on the ship and unit now, I think we're used
36:34
to seeing stories happening in different times.
36:36
So that doesn't necessarily kill that little bit form and I think
36:40
that works really well and the introduces to a new sets of
36:43
characters otherwise we're not going to Gab and the thing I
36:46
won't say is they're just great characters in this we have got
36:50
probably 1 traitor too many I think we get at.
36:53
Least one too many. We're all traitors.
36:56
Yeah, we get Yates revealed in two, we get Grover revealed in
36:59
three, We get Finch revealed in four.
37:03
But what they do quite cleverly, and then in five, is they make
37:05
you think the Brig might be a traitor too.
37:08
I think that's quite clever because we've had that run and
37:10
suddenly there's that question mark, is the Brigadier also a
37:13
traitor? So that's quite nice.
37:15
And I like that in episode 5, I'm, I'm keeping it in and I
37:19
think he's got Hulk's typical it's not black or white one way
37:23
or the other. I think he's got sympathy.
37:25
Sympathy on both sides. And Doctor even says that, you
37:27
know, he sympathizes. Empathizes with what Mike
37:30
saying, but not the way he's going about it.
37:32
And the messaging was pretty on the nose long before, often 55.
37:37
I was just going to say that, you know, this is the doctor
37:39
staring out the screen, giving an environmental message at the
37:42
end of it. And weirdly enough, people don't
37:45
seem to have an issue. When it's Jon Pert, we doing it,
37:47
but I do when it's Jodie Whittaker, which is curious.
37:52
I really like the fact that it's left wing villains in this
37:56
because I think, you know, Malcolm Hulk is left wing and it
38:00
would be obvious for him to go in the other direction.
38:03
And by all accounts he'd rub shoulders with some pretty
38:06
extreme left wingers and he puts them right at the heart of the
38:10
story, which is quite a bold thing to do.
38:12
I like the environmental message.
38:14
I don't think we get enough of it if I'm honest, and I think it
38:16
is reminding us to do the right things.
38:19
Here we are in 2023 and we're still not doing the right thing.
38:23
So I don't think anybody paid attention, but never mind.
38:26
Sarah has a brilliant role in this.
38:29
The only BI don't like is when she goes into that lift with Sir
38:34
Charles Grover, who is so clearly a villain at this point
38:38
and you just want to scream her out the telly.
38:40
But for about two episodes she is doing her own thing.
38:44
She's basically told her to go run along and play and she sort
38:47
of drives the story in another direction, which is really
38:51
refreshing. You just wouldn't get it with
38:53
Joe. And despite the fact we cut to
38:56
unit, I really love the direction of the first episode.
39:00
I think the 1st 10 minutes has some really potent imagery.
39:04
It's like the movie 28 days later done on, you know, 100th
39:08
of the budget. And I don't know who said about
39:10
black and white earlier. I think it works better in black
39:13
and white. Oh, it's.
39:13
Brilliant in black and white it's really and and and
39:16
unfortunately the recolorization is is, I mean I just think the
39:19
the the quality of the material is is so poor it's hard to make
39:22
that look. It doesn't match the rest.
39:24
The rest of the story, they should have left it.
39:27
I also love the Doctor being on the run later in the story, I
39:30
thought. I'm not sure that's as directed
39:31
as tensely as it could be. It feels a little bit of a.
39:34
It's a bit 10 minutes of padding.
39:36
But the idea of the Doctor being on the run from uni padding?
39:39
Great idea. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
39:40
I like when he's going in and out of that warehouse, you know,
39:43
the broken windows. And also the music for I think
39:47
the Dudley Simpson score for this.
39:48
I think it's it's actually one of my all time favorite music
39:51
schools of Doctor Who. I I think it's wonderful.
39:55
This could be that, the ultimate sort of Renaissance story, where
40:00
perceived fan wisdom said this was a dog.
40:03
And a lot of people have watched it in later years and found that
40:06
there's so much to enjoy. So yeah, I'm absolutely keeping
40:09
this in. It's probably my second favorite
40:11
of the year. And can I just call one moment?
40:15
Because I think it just shows what an amazing actress
40:18
Elizabeth Slayton is. So it's the minute where she's
40:21
going to prove to to Mark that they're not on a spaceship.
40:24
And she goes to open the the doors and she says, you know,
40:27
we're not in space, we're definitely not in space.
40:30
And she goes to open the door and she opens the door and she
40:33
sees this corridor and the look on her face, you know, she
40:36
wasn't 100% confident that she was right, even though she was
40:40
convincing him. And just the look of a smile of
40:43
relief on her face when she thinks, shit, thank God I was
40:46
right. I've not got sucked out into
40:48
space. But that's just such a classy
40:50
bit of acting. I think from Elizabeth.
40:51
Slide not it's yeah, she's she's incredible.
40:55
There's an even better bit of accent than that.
40:56
You know, Ron, it's the bit where that dinosaur,
40:59
Tyrannosaurus Rex, waits up in the hangar and she's got to
41:02
convince us it's the most terror face terrifying thing she's ever
41:06
faced. And she's at that door
41:08
desperately trying to get out. And it's that model puppet.
41:10
But she's. I mean, do you know what?
41:13
When I first watched it, I was genuinely anxious for her,
41:16
despite knowing that that was a 2 inch puppet that she was
41:19
running away from. So bravo, Elizabeth Slaton.
41:22
So we are definitely keeping version of dinosaurs in.
41:25
Can we can we put the commentary track in the in the bin though,
41:31
because it's just Paddy Russell? Going I've spoken to Toby about
41:37
that, if he was the most pained professional experience of his.
41:39
Life. Yeah, I mean hats off to Toby
41:41
Hado because the man, you know, his patience is, is just
41:46
amazing, you know, putting up with these one word answers and
41:50
he's, you know, he's working so hard to actually try and make
41:53
this commentary track as interesting as possible.
41:56
But she, you know, Paddy Russell just will not give an inch.
42:01
Excellent. I can't I.
42:02
Can't listen to that one, John. No, I I can't.
42:05
No. So dinosaurs stays in.
42:09
So James, were over to you for your choice to either keep or
42:13
condemn. Well, I find myself in a
42:16
position I never expected to, which is I'm going to defend
42:22
Monster of Peloton. What?
42:25
Because I sense that it's a bit of an underdog and I reckon in I
42:33
reckon in terms of consistency, objectively I think it's one of
42:36
the best in this season and I think it's got an awful lot
42:40
going for it. I would flag up the way it's
42:45
paced, which unlike Dinosaurs the another six part which sort
42:51
of it keeps aloft by just chucking everything at every
42:55
episode. I mean, Dinosaurs is never dull
42:57
because every episode is doing something different, but it it
43:00
it's a little bit relentless and it's a little bit facing in lots
43:03
of different directions at once. Curse of Peloton has got a
43:07
really focused idea and it sustains it for six episodes.
43:11
It knows when to bring out the Ice Warriors.
43:13
It doesn't do it at the end of episode one, it does at the end
43:15
of episode 3. So it UPS the ante right at the
43:17
point where the story needs it and and it keeps doing new
43:21
things. It saves an awful lot of things
43:24
for the final episode. It doesn't feel like a story
43:25
that resolves too early. It unfolds at a really elegant
43:28
pace. I think it's nicely directed.
43:32
I think we have to bear in mind that this is one of the talky
43:35
ones. It's people in a in a in a
43:37
series of rooms talking. And given that fact, it's got a
43:41
really dynamic feel actually. It's got an awful lot of
43:43
movement. It's got a lot of people kind of
43:45
moving in a very exciting way through very, very tiny sets and
43:49
and it doesn't ever feel claustrophobic or unless it
43:52
unless that's the intention. It doesn't feel like these.
43:55
I mean you know the the palace room, the throne room must have
43:57
been a a tiny set but and and they cram a lot of actors in
44:01
there. But it never feels like it's not
44:04
as opulent as it's meant to to feel no scenes in the mines you
44:07
know they're just caves and and Doctor Who often doesn't do
44:10
caves scenes terribly well. You know you need a Graham
44:14
Harper to work out how to do that.
44:15
But actually the the scenes with the miners are are are pretty
44:18
convincing. There's a few scenes on film and
44:21
yeah, I know that we get to see Terry Walsh in a silly wig
44:25
looking at the camera, but actually that is true of every
44:28
single story in the season at one point or another.
44:32
Most of the action is really kind of way well filmed and I
44:35
would say that's a bit of a rarity in season 11.
44:38
I don't think the action is terribly well handled, handled
44:40
usually. It seems to me that by being a
44:43
little bit more intimate, this story gets it right.
44:48
I'm going to flag up Dudley Simpson again.
44:50
I think Dudley Simpson really comes into his own in this
44:52
season. I think it's the point where
44:53
Dudley Simpson goes, ah, this is what I can do with this size of
44:56
ensemble. And he writes epic scores.
44:59
And again, he he matches the scale of this.
45:01
It's, you know, it's epic, but in a different way.
45:03
It's epic in a sort of Shakespearean way that's, you
45:07
know, obviously setting myself up for full because I'm aware
45:10
that it doesn't. It's not it's not Hamlet but I
45:14
sort of feel like it aspires to to have that level of kind of
45:17
intrigue and and Simpson gets this and he manages to to to to
45:21
write the a score that supports the dialogue really well.
45:24
He's not just kind of supporting action but he's he's he's world
45:28
building and I and I do feel like one of the strengths of
45:31
Brian Hales is concept here is that he's building on a world
45:34
that he's already set up and he is developing it more.
45:36
We see another cast of of people the the and the myth is that
45:43
this is kind of doing the miners strike in the way that the Curse
45:46
of Peladon did entry to the to the single market.
45:49
I I think that's completely wrong.
45:52
I don't think. I think this is a sequel to to
45:54
that concept. I think this is still all about
45:56
the the relationship to the Federation.
46:01
It follows up in a way that is not only compelling you know
46:04
we're suddenly seeing the effects on that entry into the
46:06
Federation on ordinary people on working people.
46:09
But it's really prescient. Imagine that they're not
46:15
representing miners, but they're representing the fishing
46:18
community. And suddenly we get to see it in
46:21
a whole new light and we suddenly see actually how it
46:23
maybe is relevant to things that have happened even the last few
46:26
years. You know, this is obviously
46:28
decades before the European Union as as it is now known was
46:34
was formed in that way. And yet what you have here is a
46:38
small splinter group of people who look, look as if they're
46:41
official arriving and trying to cast doubt on the benefits of
46:48
the Federation using smoke and mirrors.
46:51
And you've got the ruling class unable to articulate why the
46:55
Federation is a good thing because they're archaic and
46:58
fundamentally kind of unable to communicate with the people they
47:00
represent. I feel like we've seen a lot of
47:03
these things happen in in recent years.
47:05
Hales really predicts an awful lot of what was going to happen
47:08
down the road and that is something that I think plays out
47:13
with you know, good characterization with you know
47:16
the the the the queen is a a weak character.
47:20
I love that Sarah is there to tell her to to that being a
47:22
woman, you know she she comes from a society where she
47:25
basically believes she is useless because she is a girl.
47:28
She says it in as many words and Sarah is there to say no, that's
47:31
not a reason and we actually see that character go through a
47:33
massive change to the story and step up to the mark in her role.
47:37
I think we, I think we see this with a lot of the characters.
47:39
It's very easy to kind of again sit back and watch six episodes
47:44
worth and it's it's all a bit Amy and and we start to feel
47:46
that their their cardboard cutouts.
47:48
But they're not. Every character represents a
47:50
slightly different, slightly different response to this
47:54
situation. I really, really like how when
47:58
we finally get the reveal of the Ice Warriors, we're still not
48:01
sure whether they are bad guys or good guys, because the
48:04
previous Peloton story has told us that they can be the good
48:07
guys and we haven't. Yeah, sure, they're
48:09
authoritarian and overreacting, but that could just be, you
48:13
know, an authority figure overstepping his mark.
48:16
It's a while before the Doctor works out that they are actually
48:19
bad guys and they're not representing the Federation at
48:21
all. So I think this is a story with
48:23
layers and I would keep it in. Fabulous.
48:28
Well, I hate to say this, James, because as we'll come to you in
48:31
a minute, I was also going to champion it as an underdog, but
48:34
are very few comments that were received on this from our
48:37
listeners. Probably points in a different
48:39
direction, James H said. Should have been four parts and
48:43
that's all he's got to say. Kay Rennie says Peloton is just
48:47
too long and has to be bottom of the season pole despite the
48:51
tremendous Pearl We green coat and he's a fabulous coat he's
48:55
wearing in this. Lovely, Joe Short said.
48:57
Worst is peloton because it's too long and dull.
49:00
Michael Donahue says Peloton is a poor sequel with few good
49:05
bits. And Darren McKay said.
49:07
Worst favorite, Sorry, monster of peloton.
49:09
But you're just so very boring and that's what we received on
49:12
it. So yeah, it was a bit of a
49:14
dumbing indictment from the the hamster listeners.
49:17
James, I think you've put up a a very valid argument.
49:21
We've now got to decide whether to agree with you.
49:23
Let's start with John. John.
49:25
No, I agree. I agree 100% with everything
49:29
that James said I've I I like the monster of Pentagon, James
49:33
said. The music is I really like the
49:35
kind of do me synthesized how you get through the ice wall as.
49:40
Soon as he mentioned the music, I could hear that scream from
49:44
the music. That really works well, yeah.
49:48
Obvious. Obviously there's a few things
49:51
that don't quite like, you know, obviously the Terry Wolf's
49:55
doubling for Jon Perry and more to the point, the cliffhanger to
49:59
part one where Blow has this bizarre kind of noise like a
50:04
little baby or something like that.
50:11
And notably, they don't have that in the reprise and I'm not
50:14
surprised. It's the look on his face, isn't
50:18
it? It's so funny.
50:23
But I I like it a lot. I think it's got an awful lot to
50:26
recommend it and I think by and large the cast are very good.
50:31
You've got you've got Donald G, got Alan Bennion.
50:37
I think he's very good as scaled.
50:39
Right. He's really good.
50:40
Yeah. They're very subtly different
50:43
to, I want to say Isley, Yeah, because he's he's.
50:47
Very charming. He's more obviously venomous,
50:51
but he's he's a very subtle, distinctive, but he's still.
50:54
Playing the politics. He's playing a bureaucrat, isn't
50:57
he? Yeah.
50:57
Yeah, you got Rex Robinson. Oh, yes.
51:01
The Badger wigs are terrible. The Badger wigs are just what?
51:04
What is all that about? They're a unique look, John Rex.
51:08
He does have one of the worst lines in all of Doctor Who,
51:10
doesn't he? What is it?
51:12
If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the mine.
51:15
What's that? Yeah, how?
51:16
How? Rick Terrence managed to keep a
51:17
straight face. Yeah, Ralph Watson is he's
51:22
enjoyably hammy. I mean, but he he really does so
51:27
quite over the top, isn't he? Well, he just, he suddenly goes
51:31
psychotic somewhere between episodes two and three, he's
51:35
sort of like and then he goes completely.
51:38
Mad. Yeah, I quite admire that.
51:41
But I admire doing that in a badger wig.
51:42
Like those badger wigs. Those badger wigs would have
51:45
been embarrassing if the people wearing them had looked
51:47
embarrassed. But they don't.
51:49
They they own the badger wigs. I mean, I don't find that as
51:54
embarrassing to watch as as they might have been as and as as
52:00
embarrassing as some costume decisions in in Doctor Who,
52:03
because because they all believe in those parts playing alike.
52:06
They are burly miners and you just sort of buy into the world,
52:08
I think. So, burly miners, I've got to
52:11
move to Joe and ask him his thoughts on Monster Peloton.
52:14
That's a. Perfect.
52:15
No thoughts on it whatsoever. Thank you.
52:19
I I can't believe I'm going to say this, but you people are so
52:24
compelling in your arguments and I'm seeing what you're seeing.
52:29
And I've never really liked this, actually.
52:30
The more I'm thinking about it, then I'm thinking about like
52:32
individual scenes that I love in this story.
52:36
I love the end of the cliffhanger where Sarah opens
52:38
the door and that Ice Warrior comes lurching out.
52:41
I think that's an amazing cliffhanger.
52:43
I love the bit where Sarah finds the Doctor after the alert.
52:46
You know that crazy gay alarms been going off all the rainbow.
52:50
Lights. And she thinks he's dead,
52:53
doesn't she? And the way she plays it, like
52:56
she touches him and he comes alive and she's like, oh, it's
53:00
so brilliantly acted. And oh, best of all, super camp
53:04
villain Eckersley. Donald G back from his meteoric
53:08
success in the space. Pirates.
53:11
Apparently, by all accounts, someone said to him on a
53:13
commentary, you know the doctors only ever leave because you're
53:17
in a story. They leave immediately.
53:19
In the next one of the actors. But no, no, he has a wonderful
53:22
moment in episode 6 when he's finally revealed.
53:24
I mean, he's in black leather, We saw a nude and he's got the
53:27
queen. He's dragging her through all
53:28
the tunnels and she goes, there's all these bodies
53:31
everywhere she goes, look at what you've done.
53:34
And he just goes never mind, and just drags her off again.
53:39
Oh, he's amazing. It's too long.
53:41
I think this is too long and I don't think it's as atmospheric
53:47
as Curse of Peloton. I don't know if there's a
53:49
different lighting designer. I think the mine really comes
53:52
alive when it's on film, but it does look like a studio when
53:56
it's on video. But I'm going to keep it in.
53:58
I think it's really fun and on fashion alone.
54:03
Hertwis coat. It's the best coat he ever had.
54:07
Well, my vote's superfluous then, but I'm also going to keep
54:09
it in. Last year, everything's going
54:11
through. Well, the reasons are a couple
54:14
of reasons. I like it.
54:15
It's actually a proper sequel, and I don't think up to this
54:18
stage we've had a proper sequel. We've had villains returning,
54:22
we've had lots of villains returning, and people say, oh,
54:24
Dialect Invasion Earth is a sequel to The Dialects.
54:27
Well, no, it's not really. It's just the same adversaries
54:29
come back again. It's not actually, we're not
54:32
seeing the same web of fear, the same characters.
54:34
Oh, sorry. What about the Web of fear?
54:37
Professor Travis. Well, no.
54:39
To the Great Intelligence, the Yetis.
54:42
Yeah, maybe. Sorry, there's always some
54:45
annoying asshole pointing things out when you say things don't
54:47
know. But they're in different
54:49
settings, Tibet and London Underground, whereas here we've
54:52
actually got a return to the same planet.
54:55
So Doctor Who always often. I mean, one of the cliches is
54:58
he's the cowboy rides into town, puts things right and then
55:02
leaves again and we never see the consequences.
55:04
Now, we're not necessarily seeing consequences here, but we
55:07
are seeing him returning to the same, not necessarily the same
55:09
time. It's 50 years later, isn't it?
55:11
But the same place. And we've got, I could do all
55:14
that. Still.
55:14
We've still got Ice Warriors. We've got, of course, the
55:17
glorious how can nobody have mentioned Alpha?
55:19
Alpha Centauri. She he It is just glorious so.
55:26
Really expressive. That struck me.
55:28
Watching it the the way that head moves around and the the
55:31
the the performance is really good.
55:34
Yeah, it is. I've not heard any gay MPs that
55:36
sound like that, though if I'm honest, that's apparently what
55:39
you said. Churchmen was asked to play Play
55:42
It Like a gay MP. Does a damn good job.
55:47
Yeah Off sensor I is a is a hero and the only thing I will say
55:52
James on the on the point you were making kind of about the
55:54
political relevance. I was growing up in this power.
55:57
OK I was only 7-8 at the time but I was very aware that there
56:01
was a lot of unrest out there. There was political upset.
56:05
We had three day working weeks in the 7273 and the only reason
56:10
I was very aware of those because I was always absolutely
56:12
petrified, the Doctor Who might go off.
56:14
If there was a power. Strike on a Saturday.
56:16
Thank God it never happened. I did for others.
56:19
So I was very acutely aware that there were kind of three day
56:22
strike and I think that this does kind of play into that.
56:24
OK, we've got minors, but we had so much civil unrest in those
56:28
days. I think it does.
56:29
It does trade on what people were seeing in the country as a
56:32
whole and I think it does reflect that quite well.
56:35
So that's another reason I'd keep it then.
56:37
Oh yeah, I agree. I think it's a it's a goodie.
56:40
Don't you think that's wonderful?
56:41
The the whole countries in like a period of civil unrest and the
56:45
greatest danger might be the Doctor Who is not on Saturday
56:48
always. How old were you then?
56:51
780 Fair enough. I was absolutely terrified
56:54
Doctor Who wouldn't be on. Honestly, fair enough if you
56:56
just said 21, so yeah. Probably.
57:00
Was that too. Yeah.
57:02
So yeah, let's keep it in. I never thought that was going
57:05
through in a million years. Well done, James.
57:08
So Joe is down to you and I do you want to go next?
57:10
No, go on. You go next.
57:12
I went first last. Time I'm going to go for then
57:15
plants, the spiders and I'm going to keep in.
57:17
I think we're getting into ones now where it's quite hard.
57:21
When I was thinking about them, I thought I'm going to champion
57:23
all of these and I sort of watched them and thought about
57:26
them again. I was a bit.
57:28
I certainly wasn't going towards no, but I was a little bit on
57:32
the fence with a couple of these, not the three.
57:34
I think Plants of Spiders is probably the best of the three,
57:37
but it still does have quite a few problems with it.
57:41
So the reasons first of all why I would put it in is because I
57:45
think it's it's pretty much the epitome of the let's stick it
57:49
let's sticks era. I think we've got pretty much
57:52
everything in one story everything that they did really
57:55
well. I mean it's really telling that
57:57
Barry let's directed, wrote and produced this the only time in
58:00
Doctor Who history that one person has taken all the lead
58:03
roles in a show and this is pretty much the summary and
58:07
episode one certainly is the kind of is a is a perfect
58:09
summation of of this era we've got.
58:12
We trade on things that are in the zeitgeist at the time.
58:15
So let's talk about ESP which was very much a topic of debate
58:18
at the time and tomorrow people on ITV were treading a similar
58:22
path. We've got the meditation and
58:24
self help centre which again is feeding into that kind of
58:27
thinking that was going on coming out of flower power from
58:30
the 60s into the 70s. It was very much about
58:32
meditation and Buddhism obviously a major part of that.
58:36
We've got the slow build up to the big reveal at the end of
58:39
episode one. You think something's going to
58:42
trans map through on the on the carpet early on and it doesn't.
58:46
But then by the reveal we got the great Spider, which,
58:49
surprise surprise, isn't the title.
58:50
So I think we knew that was coming.
58:53
We've got, you know, danger in ordinary places.
58:56
We've got tractors suddenly appearing on on country lanes
58:59
and the great character beats in the first step.
59:01
So I absolutely love the scene at the Cabaret with the Doctor
59:03
and the Brigadier when the Brigadier absolutely perks up,
59:07
when the exotic dancer comes up and the way perk we looks at
59:11
him. He gives him a no.
59:12
No, I don't. You he certainly.
59:13
Does. Of.
59:15
Course he plays that so well. My God, he really sits up.
59:17
And I was waiting for him to get a pair of glass out and Polish
59:20
them. I mean, it was, yeah, he was, he
59:22
was definitely interested in that part.
59:24
And then again we get Professor Clegg when he takes the watch
59:27
and gets visions of of Doris and Corny again, plays that
59:31
beautifully. I don't think he's that kind of
59:32
buffoon that we got a little bit in season 10.
59:35
I think he's still a rounded character, but a lovely comedy
59:38
beat for him. We've got Pertweeze and complete
59:41
control of this story. There's lots of continuity.
59:44
We see clips of Carnival of the Monsters.
59:47
We got obviously all the references to Joe and Metabolis,
59:50
not Metabolis 3. So I think we've pretty much got
59:53
everything. We've got foreshadowing what's
59:55
going to happen because Choji talks about the old man that
59:58
dies. All of that's just in episode
1:00:00
one. I think it really kind of
1:00:02
encapsulates everything of the era.
1:00:04
It does go a little bit downhill after that and again probably
1:00:07
reflect things in the era. So we got some terrible CSO
1:00:11
coming up. We get, as people have already
1:00:13
mentioned, Terry Walsh in a terrible wagon, seeing his face
1:00:17
umpteen times getting thrown around the studio floor.
1:00:20
We get some appalling acting and genuine step forward please.
1:00:25
Rod my husband. Why?
1:00:26
Why? So just it's.
1:00:29
Awful. No?
1:00:30
It's just like. I shan't let you defend this.
1:00:33
I shan't, I shan't. Why oh why oh why, It's it's
1:00:37
terrible, isn't? It also, why is Terry, Why is
1:00:39
Terry Walsh doing that? Terry Walsh turns up in that wig
1:00:42
to do stuff that Pertwee could have done himself.
1:00:44
He just sort of, yeah, it's not very, it's not very dynamic.
1:00:47
He just sits. It's almost like Pertwee goes,
1:00:50
well, they're shooting me from behind so Terry can take this
1:00:52
one. I'm going to.
1:00:53
I'm off for a cup of tea. I'm off for a fag.
1:00:55
Yeah. So OK, we get some crappy bits,
1:00:58
but then it comes back again. And I think again we got some
1:01:01
great bits. So growing up around lots of
1:01:04
people who didn't like Doctor Who, they remembered some of the
1:01:07
jumper we once, they really stuck out.
1:01:08
So everyone said, oh, I remember the one with the maggots.
1:01:11
Oh, I remember the ones where the monsters came out to the
1:01:13
sea. And this one was oh, I remember
1:01:15
the one with the big spiders jumping on people's back.
1:01:17
So had really memorable visuals and I think that was, that's a
1:01:21
key to this. And again, that's a real, you
1:01:23
know, stocking trade for Harry Letts and Terrence decks.
1:01:27
So yeah, I think it sums up lots of what we know of that era and
1:01:31
reflects it back, but then does some new stuff too.
1:01:34
So my second reason for liking it is the characters and what
1:01:39
really like about plant spiders? This is the regeneration story.
1:01:42
This is the big climax of five years of Jumper, where, you
1:01:45
know, he's the biggest doctor, he's in all the media
1:01:48
constantly. And who are our main
1:01:51
protagonists? They're a group of.
1:01:53
Fairly. Seedy, rundown, middle-aged
1:01:55
businessmen. I mean it's it's not it's such a
1:01:58
juxtaposition. You are not expecting those to
1:02:01
be your big bad. I don't think we see a similar
1:02:03
group in in any who actually they're just quite real and just
1:02:07
a little bit seedy and a little bit dirty and greasy and noisy.
1:02:11
They're very pathetic. Yeah, I mean what is he?
1:02:14
Lupton's a failed sales director and he's just greasy and
1:02:18
sedious. And he's he's like Leonard
1:02:20
roster from rising down. But he's got an anger to him as
1:02:23
well as a bit sinister. Yeah, yeah, he's he's worrying.
1:02:28
We also get Tommy, and Tommy doesn't get talked about enough.
1:02:31
So again, sorry, sorry to hark back to childhood, but I went to
1:02:36
a normal state primary school and we had a girl in our class
1:02:41
who had learning disabilities. Obviously it wasn't called
1:02:44
learning disabilities in those days, but including a character
1:02:48
like Tommy in a regular show not making a big fuss about the fact
1:02:52
that he's got learning disabilities at all, he's just
1:02:55
there. I think that's a fantastic way
1:02:57
for children just to kind of accept, you know, we're all
1:03:01
different and there are people with differences out there and
1:03:04
it's part of life's rich tapestry.
1:03:06
I feel slightly uncomfortable with the kind of magic
1:03:09
resolution to his learning disabilities with the crystal
1:03:12
later on. Although the line when he said
1:03:14
something like, you know, who wants to be normal, I thought
1:03:16
that was that was lovely. But it's a little uncomfortably
1:03:21
that he's magically made better, I suppose.
1:03:26
Do we need to mention the kind of uncomfortableness about Choji
1:03:30
as well, and Campo being Tibetan being played by English actors?
1:03:35
There's a bit of it's unusual that some stories get real
1:03:38
kicking for for racial misappropriation.
1:03:40
This one doesn't, and it kind of teeters on the edge of that.
1:03:43
But let's not get too drawn into that.
1:03:46
So I think the characters are my second reason.
1:03:48
And the third reason is the regeneration.
1:03:50
It's, you know, this is the first time we actually call it a
1:03:52
regeneration. It's just huge for the show.
1:03:55
I mean, Jumper, we was Doctor Who was everywhere.
1:03:58
It was headline news. It was in my sister was three
1:04:00
years older than me. It was in her teenage magazines,
1:04:03
was Sarah Jane Smith and Elizabeth Slayton, what she was
1:04:06
wearing. So the regeneration was really,
1:04:09
really big. And it's just different.
1:04:11
He regenerates because of his greed of knowledge.
1:04:14
So it's it's it's different the way it's done and I'm seeing
1:04:17
John Purwee really showing fear in episode five of the Great
1:04:20
One, I think really leads into that fact that this is something
1:04:24
momentous. And so yeah, but I think it's
1:04:27
it's not a big flashy regeneration, it's very subtle,
1:04:31
very quick, but I think he does the job.
1:04:33
So yeah, regeneration characters and the epitome of an arrow are
1:04:37
the reasons I'm going to keep it in.
1:04:39
It's a death, isn't it? It's actually the Doctor dying
1:04:42
for a while. Rather than some something madly
1:04:45
operatic happening, you actually just experience him expire.
1:04:50
Yes, and we feel it so. Comments.
1:04:56
I I think it's. I think it's probably the the
1:04:58
only one of the few regenerations that still means
1:05:01
it tears my eye, or rather the build up to.
1:05:04
It. But he says, you know how he has
1:05:06
to face is fear and and you know, when Sarah says, you know,
1:05:10
please don't die, Yeah, I mean I'll, you know, I'll cry
1:05:13
anything these days. But that one, yeah, it's yeah,
1:05:17
it's a killer. The regeneration, the whole
1:05:19
scene has a quiet, a stillness, A quietness, which I think is so
1:05:25
effective, And I I agree with everything you said, Rod, you've
1:05:30
you've flagged up a lot of positives.
1:05:32
You have omitted quite a lot from the end of episode one to
1:05:37
the regeneration scene. And where I think Planet of the
1:05:40
Spiders really falls down is in quite a lot of the stuff that
1:05:43
happens in between. And however good episode one is,
1:05:47
they've got to fill another five episodes with this stuff.
1:05:50
And what they end up filling it with, you know, eventually is a
1:05:54
lot of people in stock costumes against a really bad CSO
1:05:59
backdrop doing West Country accents.
1:06:01
We're all farmers, you know. We are all farmers.
1:06:06
We're being very oppressed by these these 08 legs.
1:06:12
Gareth Hunt in a in a gay moustache, doing a West Country
1:06:17
accent. Who'd have thought that two
1:06:18
years later, he'd be the poster boy for the New Avengers?
1:06:22
Ralph Hollis, though. James.
1:06:25
Yeah, No. OK, Yeah, yeah, yeah, he's he's
1:06:29
he's having to do an awful lot of the work on his own though,
1:06:33
isn't he? Oh, I wasn't talking about his
1:06:35
acting, no. What were you talking about?
1:06:38
Oh, he's just very handsome, he. Is He's very pretty, isn't he?
1:06:41
And he's unlike many of the the two legs he can grow his own
1:06:45
beard. The beard stocks were in.
1:06:50
Yeah, they were using quite a lot of them there.
1:06:52
I think the only dog food story that uses them more is State of
1:06:54
Decay. Well, we're doing Season 18.
1:06:57
Oh, we are. You're full of beards in that.
1:07:01
I was watching this with with that thought in mind of it being
1:07:04
the kind of last hurrah for Letts and Dicks and I'll even
1:07:08
you know I'll even give the chase scene a pass It's it's a
1:07:13
it's pretty drawn out and it's it's not the most dynamic ever
1:07:18
but let him have it his vehicles let let him have his comedy
1:07:21
policeman. I Even so I I'm afraid my
1:07:26
conclusion was that the last hurrah for let's and Dicks is
1:07:29
not Planet the Spiders it's robot where they actually
1:07:32
revisit a lot of kind of their stock things.
1:07:36
You know, a lot of imagery from Spearhead, from space, and it's
1:07:38
much pacier, much punchier and and I think better written.
1:07:42
I think Planet of the Spiders has a escaping hole in the
1:07:45
middle and it's parts three to five and most of part 6, in fact
1:07:50
most of part 6 is part 5 anyway, because they obviously run out
1:07:53
of material and just have to repeat a lot of part 5.
1:07:56
So although you've put up a spirited defence, I don't think
1:08:02
I can keep this one in. Joe.
1:08:08
I really love Planet of the Spiders for a lot of the reasons
1:08:12
that you've said. I'm going to say something that
1:08:15
might sound a bit heinous, but I don't think Barry Letts is the
1:08:18
strongest director and I think he should have handed this to
1:08:21
somebody else. I'm not sure he can pace very
1:08:25
well. I think probably his best
1:08:26
direction ever is his first is Enemy of the World, and I think
1:08:31
he directs really well with Inferno because he's got a solid
1:08:34
camera script by Douglas Canfield that's already
1:08:37
prepared. But after that and I love
1:08:39
Carnival of Monsters. I think it's a really fun story.
1:08:43
But he's really experimental and I really love the fact that he
1:08:48
pushes technology along. But in order to push technology
1:08:52
along you make some stumbles along the way and Planet of the
1:08:55
Spider shows so many of those. The bit where Sarah appears on
1:08:59
Met Billy is free with all that dreadful fringing.
1:09:04
It's just you can't watch this with your family can you under
1:09:06
any circumstances. And like, I think episode 4,
1:09:11
where they're in the weird cocoons, like none of that's
1:09:15
needed and they're sort of in and out a lot.
1:09:17
There's a lot of chasing around going on.
1:09:20
You've got the the farm boys coming in to rescue them, know
1:09:23
they're actually evil. It's all those Doctor Who trips
1:09:26
you. I think you're right.
1:09:27
One is a brilliant set up and it's sort of exemplifies the
1:09:31
best of the era. And I think 6 bows out the era
1:09:36
in a really surprisingly thoughtful and moving way.
1:09:42
But I also think James is right. Everything that comes in
1:09:44
between, including the Chase, which I don't mind watching
1:09:47
because it's fun and it's pacey and it's got chubby oats being
1:09:51
campus hell. And like there's there's there's
1:09:53
lots happening in it. It's really indulgent and I just
1:09:57
really indulgent. It could be.
1:09:58
Just stop and have a chat in the middle of this chase scene
1:10:01
because we've got to keep it going for a bit longer.
1:10:03
Solid 4 parter I think. I think it could be an excellent
1:10:06
4 parter, but it is a pretty dreary 6 parter, so despite
1:10:11
loving a lot of it, I'm voting it out.
1:10:15
Well, OK, so spiders is gonna be the first one that falls.
1:10:19
We didn't do the comments, actually.
1:10:20
Do you know? Do you wanna do them now or I
1:10:21
can edit them in? Let's do now.
1:10:23
Let's just do now. Let's just do them now anyway.
1:10:26
Let's keep things fresh, Michael Donahue said.
1:10:29
Spiders is good, but too long. Oh yeah, I think we've touched
1:10:31
on that. It's a pity.
1:10:32
The planet with Studio Bound, although alike the idea of
1:10:34
something finely scaring poetry and his arrogance and pride
1:10:37
being his undoing and unlike others are like how simple the
1:10:40
regeneration is. Gareth Bowley says a great romp
1:10:45
of a story with a brilliant chase sequence.
1:10:47
I've got a figure. They're all going to love it,
1:10:49
you know? Very few, actually.
1:10:51
Surprising compared to like dinosaurs, Anthony Williams said
1:10:54
everything John did was superb oceans of tears when he died at
1:10:58
the end of plants of spiders. And Eric White says Spider
1:11:01
should have been a four partner. I think he means parter.
1:11:04
Parter Yeah. Spider should have been a four
1:11:06
parter. The edited version on the DVD is
1:11:08
excellent. I've never seen that.
1:11:11
No, I can't say I have. It's jarring.
1:11:13
It's very jarring. I think when you're when you're
1:11:16
used to watching something, yeah, it's a taken out.
1:11:19
It instantly starts with the the a close up of the the mat
1:11:25
mandala. Is it the mandala that long
1:11:28
track that they have? When they sell a mantra.
1:11:30
Yeah, spider thing. Can I just, can I just say what
1:11:34
I'll I'll keep it in because I quite like Planet of the
1:11:37
Spiders. Go for it.
1:11:41
Come on, where's your defence? I thought.
1:11:43
We've done this already on the go, OK?
1:11:45
All right, well yeah, I I think the padding is.
1:11:49
The padding bit is valid because you know, it's it's just, you
1:11:55
know, like the cocoon bit. I mean it's it's just, you know,
1:11:58
really bad pun. You know, puns being thrown at
1:12:01
each other. You know, sort of went to
1:12:02
Stewart Time Lord or Roaster Time Lord.
1:12:06
Some of the CSO is dodgy. But I do like Barry Lexer's
1:12:10
ambition, like that strange bit early in Part 3, when Lux and
1:12:15
kind of has that mental leak with the spiders and there's
1:12:19
like this, this gurning, disembodied head, it ends up in
1:12:23
the in the spider courtroom. It's just sort of, you know,
1:12:26
sort of. Going they filmed it from 2
1:12:28
angles and they're. Fainting between 2:00.
1:12:30
Angles so it so his face doesn't quite line up.
1:12:32
The problem is, the effects have been so dodgy up to that point
1:12:35
you sit there wondering if it's just an accident.
1:12:38
Yeah, it's. The It's the evil next.
1:12:42
You don't. It's the Evil Queen from Snow
1:12:45
White. It's the same effect, isn't?
1:12:46
It it is, yeah. The sort of revolving revolving
1:12:49
head, yeah. And he he does, he does tend to
1:12:51
roll in his arms of it. You know, the crystal every
1:12:56
time. It's just the crystal.
1:12:57
It's always the. Crystal I love a Hammy villain.
1:13:00
He he is quite hammy, but I quite like the fact that he's,
1:13:03
you know, he's such a loser. You know, the only you know his
1:13:06
only motivation is to get back at his old you know, the the
1:13:11
Takeover Boys who kicked him out of his old job.
1:13:15
And he's, you know, he's, he's so deluded with madness.
1:13:19
Who do you think John Dearth, Is it John Dearth or John Dearth is
1:13:22
it? John.
1:13:23
Dearth I think he's brilliant. I think he's really good in this
1:13:26
and and and that that he looks tragic, doesn't he?
1:13:29
He looks like a businessman who's had.
1:13:31
Just had a bad line 10. Sizes too big for him, you know,
1:13:34
He's practically just sort of wasting away in that.
1:13:38
But even the fact that when he's delivering his back story, the
1:13:40
camera cuts away from him and shows us something else going
1:13:42
on, it's like even the the director, he's interested.
1:13:45
In his story I can't be bothered with.
1:13:47
This, But did you notice as well?
1:13:48
He's sort of washing his hands and his face in a really sort of
1:13:51
aggressive way. There's something, yeah, it's
1:13:53
coming up. I'm kind of scary.
1:13:55
Yeah, I'm waiting for him to turn up on 24 hours in police
1:13:58
custody because he's he does definitely something.
1:14:00
He's a bit of a wrong man, isn't he?
1:14:03
He'd he'd be on Twitter 24 hours a day, constantly gang at
1:14:07
everyone, wouldn't he? And there's Twitter, who's
1:14:09
tailor made for lots. In block capitals.
1:14:12
In block capitals yes. Anyone say who he?
1:14:15
Reminds us of. But from everyone's laughing, we
1:14:21
can assume they all know. Yeah.
1:14:24
Oh dear. So I can't laugh.
1:14:25
I've got a really bad sore throat.
1:14:29
Anyway. Yeah.
1:14:29
I like, I like the chase sequence as well.
1:14:32
I really like that. And also the bit that Rob
1:14:34
mentioned with the when Bert Weis forced the March like a
1:14:39
marionette on the spot and you can actually see his eye.
1:14:42
He's not got a tear in his eye. I think you know this sort of
1:14:44
real kind of, you know this usually rock solid confidence to
1:14:48
the point of arrogance. Dr. is being made to feel you
1:14:51
know, just, you know, like a little puppet you.
1:14:54
Know. Yeah, I remember that.
1:14:55
I was. I remember that as a child.
1:14:56
That really kind of struck me because I was used to this very
1:14:59
patriarchal figure that was never scared of anything and,
1:15:02
you know, held all his companions under the Cape and
1:15:05
all the rest of the cliches. But he was such he was always in
1:15:08
control and always in power, and that was.
1:15:10
The only other side. Was shocking.
1:15:12
Scared, I think his mind of evil, isn't it, when he's
1:15:15
fighting off the flames and, you know, past monsters and all of
1:15:19
that. There's a little bit of gooning
1:15:20
that, that kind of. Kills, yeah, yeah.
1:15:22
Whereas here it feels more genuine.
1:15:26
He's lying when he says when he's fight, you know, utterly
1:15:29
beaten. And he says the TARDIS brought
1:15:31
me home. That's so moving, isn't it?
1:15:33
Yeah. Although John, that chase you
1:15:38
were talking about there, I've never known a chase sequence in
1:15:40
any movie or TV where it's like past the baton from one vehicle
1:15:45
to another, just like this is, you know, right.
1:15:47
And they're all waiting. Here, Hovercraft Helicopter.
1:15:50
Let's go. It's just waiting for the next
1:15:53
bit, isn't it? You.
1:15:54
Know there's a bit where Stuart Fell, I believe had a hovercraft
1:15:58
written over him and they they filmed this stunt, they've cut
1:16:01
it to look like it's a trick shot.
1:16:03
There's the one moment where they actually need to hold hold
1:16:06
the the the shot and they cut away at the point where they
1:16:09
could have replaced him with a dummy.
1:16:10
So. And his reaction is so Dick
1:16:12
comedy is just. Yet not a very funny comic
1:16:16
moment. Chubby oats going, oh, I'm going
1:16:18
over for a lie down. I've had enough, you know, I'm
1:16:21
like, yeah, me too. I'm kind.
1:16:23
Of bet. I thought it was straight Richie
1:16:25
the first time I saw that. Oh really?
1:16:28
Yeah, I thought it was so Richie.
1:16:30
But years too early, I mean. Yeah, probably, yeah.
1:16:33
But then I I can't see a thing, you know, That's what is
1:16:36
appalling. So Spiders is out.
1:16:39
We've got three more comments on spiders, Darren thought.
1:16:42
It's action-packed, he said. Seeing the Third Doctrine full
1:16:44
James Bond mode given chase by Rd., Air and Water is awesome.
1:16:49
Oh, well then, what do I know? Well done, Darren, Joe Lewellen
1:16:52
says. Quite good.
1:16:53
Doesn't really drag interesting character bits with all the
1:16:56
running around. And zones of thought.
1:16:58
It's very, very intriguing, said Spider.
1:17:02
Still, slaps have a mandala and mantra, And who needs a vortex
1:17:05
manipulator? OK, so Spiders is the first to
1:17:10
fall by the wayside. Joe, you have got Time Warrior
1:17:13
and Death to the Daleks left. Which would you like to pick?
1:17:16
I truly cannot believe that the Time Warrior is going to be the
1:17:19
last story talked about in this episode.
1:17:22
You gone for death? I would like to champion Death
1:17:24
to the Daleks, please, which I first watched when I was seven
1:17:27
years old. So I'm watching this through
1:17:29
seven-year 7 year old's eyes, and I'm still 7 years old when
1:17:34
I'm watching it now. I think it has a brilliant first
1:17:38
episode, truly atmospheric first episode with great direction
1:17:42
from Michael Bryan in the studio with the lights down and tons of
1:17:47
dry ice pumped in and on location.
1:17:50
I think it's a very convincingly realized world and you really
1:17:54
feel the sort of oppressive atmosphere of it.
1:17:57
When the Doctor and Sarah are walking around, there's a great
1:17:59
sequence where Sarah is running through the mist, runs into the
1:18:03
TARDIS and she's like, oh thank God I'm safe.
1:18:05
She's turning the old crank candle thinking, OK, I'm going
1:18:09
to shut the doors and then you realize that bloody Exelon's in
1:18:11
there with her and grabs her foot.
1:18:13
And it's it's genuinely tense and horrific.
1:18:16
I know Robert Holmes had input in this story and this, I think
1:18:21
this was the first story had real input into.
1:18:23
And you can feel that sort of gothic horror starting to creep
1:18:26
in. Although I think Gothic is an
1:18:29
overused term, but you can feel the horror seeping into to the
1:18:33
story and you know it leads up to a Dalek cliffhanger.
1:18:37
What more do you want? Fabulous.
1:18:39
And the idea of of the TARDIS losing all of its power.
1:18:42
Terror Nation ain't big on ideas, but they're fun ideas,
1:18:46
you know, and the Tardis being stranded on that planet with no
1:18:50
way off. I think it's great.
1:18:51
Oh, and sorry, I'm just going to listen.
1:18:54
Everything I love about this story, The city of the Exelons
1:18:57
when I was seven years old. You was never going to see a
1:19:00
better special effect than that, with Sarah walking towards it
1:19:03
and the Beacon going off fabulous cigarette in the
1:19:07
distance. Oh my God, it's amazing.
1:19:10
My second reason to champion death to the Daleks is devious
1:19:14
Daleks. Yes, take away their weapons and
1:19:17
have them be really devious, although not perhaps as smart as
1:19:21
they could be, because when they're coming up with their
1:19:23
evil plan, the Doctor and Co are about two foot over there where
1:19:28
they're all going. Well, let's all pretend, you
1:19:29
know we're going to help them out.
1:19:31
And even when we get their weapons back, we're still going
1:19:33
to help them out. And then they basically turn
1:19:35
around and they're literally there right next to them going,
1:19:37
all right, Doctor, we're on your side.
1:19:39
No, no. It's really refreshing for
1:19:41
termination to say different with the Daleks, and I like them
1:19:45
using their brains rather than their guns.
1:19:49
However, when they do get their guns back, they're given
1:19:52
fabulous machine guns, and there's one sequence where they
1:19:56
blast down a bunch of excellence for no reason at all, apart from
1:20:00
the fact that they're absolute bastards, which I love.
1:20:04
I think the Dialects are really great in this.
1:20:06
They're even like, even when they've got all the premium at
1:20:08
the end, they're like, well, we don't need to blow up the
1:20:10
planet, but we're going to blow it up anyway because we don't
1:20:12
like Narnia. They're wonderful.
1:20:15
I think the Dialects are great in this.
1:20:17
There's a sequence where the Doctor says goodbye to Sarah.
1:20:22
In this, and it's one of the most intimate scenes you're
1:20:25
going to see between a Doctor and a companion in the classic
1:20:28
series. He cups her face, he talks to
1:20:30
her very gently, she tries to resist and there's just an
1:20:34
unspoken intimacy between the two of them that I really love.
1:20:37
Now, I've heard a reading from Lucy McCall, who got handsome.
1:20:40
She doesn't like that bit at all.
1:20:41
She thinks the Doctors a bit too familiar with her.
1:20:44
I think it's really very touching and it shows how their
1:20:47
relationship is deepening as the season goes on and they get more
1:20:51
and more moments like that. And the last reason I want to
1:20:55
champion this is because, and you're probably all going to
1:20:58
hate this as adults, but as a kid, all of those fabulous.
1:21:03
What? You're not going to say the
1:21:05
music? Please, for the love of God,
1:21:06
don't say the music. Oh.
1:21:08
No, that's another reason I love this.
1:21:09
I'll come to that after this one, then.
1:21:11
It's those fabulous dangers in the city of the Exelons, which
1:21:15
plays out like, you know, Doctor Who's version of The Crystal
1:21:18
Maze as you go from 1:00 room to the other, the maze of death.
1:21:23
The evil light bulbs that drive you crazy.
1:21:25
Oh, I love that, those, those video effects.
1:21:28
The school disco of death. You do not exist.
1:21:32
That exists. Fabulous.
1:21:34
You know, the the IKEA flooring of death.
1:21:38
But when you're 7 years old, all of these dangers.
1:21:40
Oh, look at James. He looks very perturbed right
1:21:42
now. I think James is giving away a
1:21:45
little bit. You've got to remember I watched
1:21:47
the VHS of this, so I wasn't aware it was a cliffhanger until
1:21:49
I. Was you can't bring up the IKEA
1:21:51
flooring of death as a as a good point and not expect me to make
1:21:54
a face I. Was I was seven, I was 7.
1:21:59
The Daleks go across. There's electric beams
1:22:01
everywhere. I sometimes think we lose.
1:22:04
We forget what it's like to watch Doctor Who as a little
1:22:07
kid. As a little kid.
1:22:09
That was just incredible. It was weird.
1:22:11
It was weird. It was weird.
1:22:12
Deadly flaw. You know, I just loved it.
1:22:15
And then just the idea that you could give the city a nervous
1:22:20
breakdown, you know, by undoing a few bits and pieces.
1:22:25
I just loved it. The the doors coming up and down
1:22:28
and then trying to get out are genuinely thought they weren't
1:22:30
going to make it. I can see as an adult why this
1:22:35
is a very trying Doctor Who story, full of cliches and
1:22:39
stereotypes and you know that Dreadful.
1:22:43
What's her name? Jill Tarrant.
1:22:45
Here. She comes, you know, Awful.
1:22:49
I mean one of Terry Nation's many Tarrant's.
1:22:52
What isn't with name Tarrant? Still don't understand it?
1:22:56
But hasn't Tarrant too far. As a child, this was the most
1:23:00
excitement I could possibly have.
1:23:02
I'll wore that video out. I love it.
1:23:05
I still love it. Now it takes me back to being
1:23:07
young and that's why I'm keeping it in.
1:23:10
Fantastic. Should we see what the comments
1:23:11
say? Joe.
1:23:13
David. I'm scared.
1:23:14
Yeah, I'm scared. They're a mixed bag.
1:23:16
Let's say mixed bag David Gillespie, Pratt said.
1:23:19
What a beige half hour story. It's a real feeling of it'll do
1:23:24
on so many fronts, especially in Termination's unremarkable
1:23:27
script. Daleks Without the Power to Kill
1:23:29
should have been much more interesting.
1:23:31
I. Feel sad for him, Michael Storm
1:23:35
says. The best for me is without doubt
1:23:39
it may it. Yeah, I'll start again, Michael
1:23:42
Storm says. The best for me is without
1:23:43
doubt. It may take story beats from
1:23:46
colony and space and spite them up, spice them up with games
1:23:48
from the annuals, but it is great fun.
1:23:51
The Daleks briefly get to be cunning again, since the odds
1:23:54
are against them. Jim Allenby said it might not be
1:23:57
everyone's favorite. It's not same as you here Joe,
1:23:59
but I saw this as a kid on VHS and it's always a go to comfort
1:24:03
story. Even the slightly dodgy music
1:24:06
and the silver and black Daleks Daleks look magnificent.
1:24:10
Melvin Pena, says Arnold Yarrow. Oh, I didn't even mention
1:24:13
Bellao. Arnold Yarrow as Bellao is
1:24:15
charming and adorable guide to the Exelon city, and Pertwee's
1:24:19
closing pronouncement about how there are only 699 wonders left
1:24:23
in the universe is a wonderfully bleak antecedent or antitype.
1:24:27
To Davison's there should have been another way from Warriors
1:24:30
or The Deep Man. The reasons are stacking up
1:24:32
here, folks. Well, don't get too excited,
1:24:34
Jeff, Richardson said. This is the worst because I
1:24:36
can't be arsed to care about shooting and yelling and space
1:24:39
parallel. May I suggest he's watching the
1:24:41
wrong television show, then ailing Phillips says Bellao is.
1:24:46
Great, Taylor, Edwards said. I love the concept, but it feels
1:24:50
like everyone from Terry Nation to Jumper, we're just going
1:24:53
through the motions. Darren McKay says it's like a
1:24:56
comfy blanket for me and that Dalek design has yet to be
1:24:59
better. Oh.
1:25:00
Yes, Ryan Mckiven said. Simple, fun, if daft story.
1:25:03
Great soundtrack. What and an atmospheric feel
1:25:07
through, though the Part 3 cliffhanger is pretty dumb.
1:25:11
Gary Bowley finally says, feels so bloody.
1:25:14
The music really doesn't help his pace.
1:25:17
I think we've got to go to James because James just looks like
1:25:20
he's lost the will to live with. This story looks like I don't
1:25:23
know what happened. And I I did enjoy it.
1:25:27
And I'm totally with Joe about seeing things as a 7 year old.
1:25:32
I I mean, I think Doctor Who should appeal to seven-year olds
1:25:36
and and and this really would have done and it's got an awful
1:25:39
lot going for it. It just from a purely kind of
1:25:42
visual perspective. The the the film scene sequences
1:25:46
are great and they've got dialects bursting into flames
1:25:48
and toppling off cliffs into into muddy lakes.
1:25:53
You know, it's it's full of stuff that I absolutely would
1:25:56
have loved as a kid. I suppose I would question
1:26:00
whether this approach where the Daleks are they're devious but
1:26:04
they're devious in a kind of Doctor Who annual 1966 way.
1:26:11
Whether that really works with this era of Doctor Who and with
1:26:15
the quite mature relationship that has been set up between
1:26:19
actually between Jon Pertwee and and and the series but but
1:26:22
particularly Jon Pertwee and Elizabeth Sladen and following
1:26:25
off. I mean I agree that first
1:26:27
episode was the the dimly lit TARDIS and that that existential
1:26:31
horror of, you know, the TARDIS is their only way out and and
1:26:35
there's no you. You feel her to spend.
1:26:37
This is her one trip and and this is where Sarah being a
1:26:40
passenger rather than a companion is so powerful because
1:26:43
it's like it's her first trip into space and you've you can
1:26:46
sense her dismay. It's like, is this it?
1:26:49
That's why I think his farewell to her is so moving.
1:26:52
It's almost like he's an apology.
1:26:54
Sorry, I was meant to take you to an amazing place and look
1:26:57
where we've ended up. I agree with that 7 year old me
1:27:02
would have seen that wrinkled flooring and gone.
1:27:06
Couldn't they at least have made it straight, couldn't they?
1:27:11
You couldn't have been cynical at 7, surely?
1:27:13
No, but I think I was critical at seven.
1:27:17
I think that I I think like many Doctor Who fans, I was a bit
1:27:20
troubled by anything that took me out of the reality.
1:27:23
And as a Doctor Who fan, I was pretty exactly, you know, I I
1:27:27
certainly never watched Doctor Who for the special effects.
1:27:31
I was willing to suspend disbelief, which is why I was so
1:27:34
troubled when something just appeared to be a bit sloppy.
1:27:36
And that is so clearly a studio set where they haven't really
1:27:39
bothered to set it up properly. And I think it's full of things
1:27:41
like that and the and the whole thing, the whole direction.
1:27:48
You know, the dialects, going away and having a conversation,
1:27:50
a loud conversation just next to the doctor.
1:27:52
It feels so lazy. Surely someone could have just
1:27:56
turned the camera a bit further so it wasn't so obvious.
1:27:59
Like one of those Daleks. Yeah, as it hasn't got an
1:28:01
operator in it and no one's even sort of getting out with a
1:28:06
sticker or anything. One is completely stationary.
1:28:09
I'm fascinated. By this you know the Daleks,
1:28:12
which move so beautifully in the in the in the Hartnell stories.
1:28:16
Did they just not pass this information on?
1:28:19
You know what? Where where were the Dalek
1:28:21
operators going on? And this is how we do this and
1:28:22
we need to keep this moving together.
1:28:24
You know that even from planets of the Daleks to to death to the
1:28:28
Daleks, there's a drop in kind of the quality of Dalek
1:28:31
operating and they bump into stuff and they don't flash their
1:28:33
lights properly. The whole thing is this slight
1:28:37
air of no one quite cares enough to make it really good.
1:28:40
And that troubles me. I have written, I wrote down
1:28:47
when I was watching it. It's this Terry Nation's most by
1:28:50
numbers script. It's sort of if you had Terry
1:28:53
Nation bingo, this would be a winning story because it's got
1:28:58
everything. It's got a series of tests, it's
1:29:00
got a space virus, it's got a Tarrant.
1:29:04
It's even like there's a point where Galloway is told you're
1:29:07
you're not fit to be leader. And like what?
1:29:09
Where did that come from? We've had no sign that Galloway
1:29:12
is a tall, a character who shouldn't be entrusted with
1:29:15
leadership. And when he does his self
1:29:16
sacrifice, it's almost on his face like, well, I've got to
1:29:19
sacrifice myself because I've been set up as a bad.
1:29:22
And so, yeah, this is me half heartedly sacrificing.
1:29:26
Myself Character Galloway. I I I disagree because I don't
1:29:32
think there's anything in the writing.
1:29:33
I think all of the characters are are absolutely kind of
1:29:36
two-dimensional. The bit, the bit where Commander
1:29:40
Alton dies and he and he says, you know, you all are going to
1:29:43
be in command and then he goes, oh, I'm sorry, so I couldn't
1:29:46
quite hear you after. It's a good line, but it feels
1:29:49
like a line that he's reused from something else.
1:29:51
I just like there's nothing that sets.
1:29:53
Him up, if I'm honest. Finally, Harry Blyton, right.
1:30:00
He's a really interesting composer.
1:30:02
Kerry Blighton's had this thing where he felt that the music he
1:30:05
wrote had to somehow match the the concept of the story, which
1:30:09
is an interesting idea. So in Doctor Who and the
1:30:11
Silurians, he thought, well, they're ancient creatures from
1:30:13
beneath the ground. I need to find an an ancient
1:30:16
instrument to represent them, which is why he uses a Shawn,
1:30:19
which I I'd say I think that's quite an effective score.
1:30:23
It's a weird score but then what score from who is not?
1:30:28
It's it's really I I think it it, I think it works in an odd
1:30:33
way. This one is him going well.
1:30:36
The Daleks are fed through a ring modulator.
1:30:39
So I need to feed my clarinet through a ring modulator and
1:30:42
that will make it sound like Dalek music.
1:30:45
And I think it's. I just think it's wrong headed.
1:30:48
I totally understand that if you've grown up with it and
1:30:50
there's a nostalgia factor that it's going to work that.
1:30:55
Was basically my only card, James.
1:30:57
That was my. You only have.
1:31:00
Joe was grasping at that point. You only have to compare it to
1:31:04
the music that Dudley Simpson writes a year later, The genesis
1:31:07
of the dialects, to see what real, menacing Dalek music
1:31:10
really sounds like. And Kerry Blighton doesn't come
1:31:13
close. It's not even like I don't think
1:31:15
he wants to come close. I think he's trying to do
1:31:16
something conceptual, and I'm not saying there's not some
1:31:21
quality to his music. I just feel like he'd be better
1:31:24
placed work with Ken Russell on a A documentary or something.
1:31:27
What about the Welsh choir, you know?
1:31:30
OK, I do quite I quite like that music.
1:31:33
But I was. I was slightly unnerved because
1:31:37
I watched Topsy Turvy recently and the head priest talks in the
1:31:40
same voice as Jim Broadbent doing WS Gilbert.
1:31:45
So no, I think that I think that choir music actually works quite
1:31:49
effectively. It it again, it comes from that
1:31:53
slightly horror inflected part of the story which ultimately
1:31:57
doesn't really deliver because they just sort of run away from
1:32:00
them and it's. The adventure game by the end
1:32:02
it. Is.
1:32:02
Yeah, yeah. And yeah, I I I agree about the
1:32:07
the weird room, you know, there's there's some real
1:32:09
weirdness there. But then there are the two
1:32:12
figures where they haven't really bothered to come up with
1:32:14
a costume. So they've just sort of wrap
1:32:15
them in toilet roll and they do, you know what I mean?
1:32:18
Like everything. There were great ideas peppered
1:32:21
amongst the episodes. But I but I feel like ultimately
1:32:25
the there's there's not the will to realize that Terry Nation is
1:32:30
for someone who early on in Doctor Who was sort of entrusted
1:32:34
as a reli a reliable pair of hands who who would turn up the
1:32:37
goods. There are so many Terry Nation
1:32:39
scripts where I think what how did you think they were going to
1:32:41
do all of this? And respected producers going,
1:32:47
yeah, we'll make this, yeah, throw some money at this.
1:32:51
So I'm thinking it's a no James. Free.
1:32:52
It's a no for me if you said yes after all.
1:32:55
That I would have been very surprised.
1:32:57
I've got to hear what John's got to say.
1:33:01
Well it's it's it's another yes for me.
1:33:03
I mean I I I love it. I love all the, you know, like
1:33:07
you said, Doctor, Who's designed to be, you know enjoyed as a kid
1:33:11
and you know it's got horror movie overtones.
1:33:15
It's got like, you know, all these tests that they've got to
1:33:17
go through and that is exactly the sort of thing that I look
1:33:20
for in Doctor. Yes.
1:33:21
Some of the characters are a bit a bit lackluster.
1:33:25
You know, I mean Galloway like you said is just a bit of a,
1:33:28
he's a bit one-dimensional. You know, he's, you know what
1:33:30
he's going on about his, you know, eco eco.
1:33:33
You know, I mean, it's like, you know, the excellence come up
1:33:36
with extra chocolate on their biscuits or something.
1:33:39
Like, yeah, yeah, Jill Taran, other bloke, he's got the
1:33:44
personality of a hula hoop. The other commander guy not.
1:33:50
Talking about John the great John Abeneri are you, Oh.
1:33:53
He's one. No, I've got something.
1:33:55
About John Abeneri. In a minute, John Abeneri is
1:33:57
actually excellent, and it's a shame that he's used as target
1:34:00
practice so early on in Part 2 he.
1:34:03
He is wasted, isn't he? Yeah.
1:34:04
There's not. Yeah, yeah.
1:34:05
I don't know what they've got. I was very disturbed as a child
1:34:07
how he seemed to die in a mess of mash and peas.
1:34:10
Did you see it all over the place in the spaceship when they
1:34:13
kidnap him? No, just me.
1:34:15
OK, it's all over the floor. Sorry, John, Continue.
1:34:20
Oh, right. Now.
1:34:22
Sorry. I'm with you now.
1:34:23
Yes. Yeah.
1:34:24
I mean, I don't, I don't know. I mean, maybe the Exelons had a,
1:34:27
you know, like a, you know, maybe they're really hungry or
1:34:30
something. They were looking for something
1:34:32
better than, you know, it's the mash and, you know, stale peas.
1:34:38
I don't. Know there are fat.
1:34:39
Peas rank. So yeah, there there's that.
1:34:44
And yeah, the music doesn't really work.
1:34:48
Having said that, there are quite, there are some quite nice
1:34:51
cues in part one, and I like the way there's absolutely no music
1:34:57
for the 1st 10 minutes because of, you know, the power's gone
1:35:01
and all of a sudden the TARDIS doesn't feel like a place of
1:35:04
safety anymore. It actually feels dangerous.
1:35:08
You know, you've got the Exelon actually invading and you know,
1:35:12
you see it from the the Exelon's point of view, which is one
1:35:16
thing that Michael Lee Bryan is very good at eating.
1:35:18
Much better, even better in Robots of Death.
1:35:22
You know, it's it's quite kind of voyeuristic the way you see
1:35:25
it from, you know, the baddie's point of view where it's at,
1:35:28
Sarah. And he of course he did that
1:35:29
again and wrote us a death. And it's even more kind of
1:35:31
graphic. Do you know why he did it that
1:35:35
way? Do you know why he did it that
1:35:38
way? No, he said.
1:35:40
He just didn't have enough set to shoot in, so he had to shoot.
1:35:43
It from the Xbox. Point of view to go at Sarah
1:35:45
Jane. Needs must.
1:35:47
Yeah. Well, that's, well, whatever.
1:35:48
But it works. Yeah.
1:35:50
Choice. Yeah, yeah.
1:35:51
And also he's really good with video effects.
1:35:55
The bit where, you know, when he says, you know, you do not
1:35:57
exist, etcetera, etcetera. I really like video distortion
1:36:01
for that, which they nick from top of the pots.
1:36:04
There's something, you know, that's one thing I really like
1:36:07
about 1970s Doctor Who. It's all those weird kind of
1:36:10
video effects that they include. So I think there's an awful lot
1:36:14
to recommend it. Oh yeah.
1:36:16
And the the screams at the end when the the city melts, that's
1:36:20
that's quiet. It's jarring, I think.
1:36:23
Very strange. I used to think it was Michael
1:36:24
Wisher, but apparently it's Jill Tarrant.
1:36:27
Or rather the girl who plays Jill Tarrant.
1:36:29
Mike Lee Bryant. And the guy plays who?
1:36:32
Who? Man, doing the screams.
1:36:35
So yeah. But all things considered, I
1:36:38
would keep it in. You're right.
1:36:40
Cut silence at the start. That's great, but if the best
1:36:43
thing you can say about a score is that it's, it's not there for
1:36:45
the 1st 10 minutes. Yeah, yeah, You don't know that.
1:36:49
Yeah, yeah. The cue.
1:36:50
Yeah, I'm thinking of. There's a really nice cue when
1:36:54
it cuts from the Doctor being attacked by excellence to Sarah
1:36:58
waking up in the cell. There's a lovely, soft little
1:37:00
bit of music, and if he'd done it like that all the way
1:37:02
through, it would have been so much better than the Mr. Ben
1:37:05
featuring that. He's no.
1:37:07
You've loved a bit. You know when she's towards the
1:37:09
end of episode 2 where Sarah's in The Cave and it's like, I
1:37:16
love all of that, mind you, seven years old again.
1:37:19
But I've. I've got to counter that show
1:37:21
with when we get three blind mice.
1:37:22
When the Doctor comes back from having been attacked by the the
1:37:27
root. Has the Doctor survived?
1:37:29
Hasn't he? Sarah's terrified when we get
1:37:32
three blind. My heart.
1:37:34
He's nothing if not original, and he's not original.
1:37:37
I've never heard that before. A Doctor Who's a true
1:37:39
originality. OK, so I've got the casting vote
1:37:42
on this one. Go with your inner child, Rose.
1:37:48
There are good and bad. Everything I've written down for
1:37:51
my reasons, I find good, but then I find bad.
1:37:54
So there is some really original stuff here.
1:37:57
I like the stuff about the city, the fact that the city's got a,
1:38:01
you know, a root system. We hear that the Exelons have
1:38:04
travelled across the universe and inspired the Aztecs temples.
1:38:08
You know, that's really original.
1:38:09
The fact that the city cast its inhabitants out on one of the
1:38:13
one group worships it and the other group wants to destroy it.
1:38:16
You know, there's some really new and interesting ideas now
1:38:19
for Terry Nation. The games on the on the floor
1:38:22
and the games through the city, that's new at this stage and
1:38:25
obviously we get it later on. We get it in Pyramids of Mars,
1:38:28
we get it again in five Doctors. So there are new stuff here, but
1:38:34
you're also mixed with one hell of a lot as I think James
1:38:37
rightly pointed out of termination tropes space plague.
1:38:41
When John Poe, he talks about you and your space chums and
1:38:44
that was that was the idea. What does Capaldi say?
1:38:47
In Just pop the word space in front of anything but space
1:38:51
chums was pretty much. Termination did that for about
1:38:55
four decades. Oh my goodness.
1:38:58
But we've got the good old gravel pits.
1:38:59
This was originally written to be a jungle, but Terry knows.
1:39:02
She was told no, it can't be a jungle because you.
1:39:04
Just have a. Jungle.
1:39:06
Exactly. So have a gravel pit because
1:39:08
that's really original. So yeah, let's start.
1:39:11
The characters, the other characters for me really drag it
1:39:15
down. I mean, Jill Tarrant, she is in
1:39:18
the Marine Space Corps. How did that woman get into the
1:39:21
Marine Space Corps? She's awful.
1:39:24
I mean the the show, I've done that.
1:39:27
I can't even bring myself to speak to him.
1:39:29
Future you recommended the cliffhanger of Episode One,
1:39:33
which is possibly one of the ideas of Doctor Who.
1:39:36
They all run out to see this, the source of landing.
1:39:39
They all look in completely different.
1:39:41
Directions but. They're all looking in
1:39:44
completely different directions. John Albanari, he was usually a
1:39:48
solid performance, has a terrible delivery of wait, you
1:39:52
can't as the Daleks come out. I mean it's and then the music
1:39:57
of of Carrie Blython. It ends on a Dalek firing, so
1:40:00
it's the ultimate how are they gonna get?
1:40:02
It ends on about a three minute shot of a Dalek firing, clearly
1:40:06
not successfully firing, and then it cuts to Jon Pertwee who
1:40:09
we hold for another 5 minutes, clearly not being shot.
1:40:12
The mess that is Jill Tarrant as she crumbles into his arm, it's
1:40:16
it's very stock. I do like Galloway.
1:40:18
I think Duncan Lamont is very good in his role.
1:40:21
He was apparently quite a star on me.
1:40:23
His name was kind of out there as being the lead for this story
1:40:26
or the lead guest star for this. Bellao is great, great
1:40:30
character. Love Bellao atmosphere.
1:40:32
Can you see the atmosphere is up and down?
1:40:34
You're right. The early shots with the stuff
1:40:36
on film and all the dry ice, the TARDIS landing that that's
1:40:40
really. That's sound effects are great
1:40:41
as well. The planetary sound effects and.
1:40:44
But then you go to the area where the Dalek spaceship lands,
1:40:46
and it's so you know what I. Can't look, doctor.
1:40:49
It's so in the studio, isn't it? It's the juxtaposition between
1:40:52
the two. It just doesn't.
1:40:54
Work to great for CSO shot of the interior of the spaceship.
1:40:58
I mean, I love the chanting music.
1:41:00
I think that's really atmospheric.
1:41:01
But then you've got the rest of the music and I just think for
1:41:05
every good there's too much bad. So I'm sorry guys, It's a no for
1:41:10
me. It's going to exit.
1:41:12
I'm with you, James. It's leaving the competition.
1:41:15
Devastated. Honestly, that might be a Hoover
1:41:19
attachment, but the way it screamed like that 7 year old me
1:41:22
was terrified. I could even see The Wire and I
1:41:25
was still scared. So we are left weirdly with the
1:41:29
Time Warrior. I think it's, I think it's the
1:41:32
strongest in the season in a lot of ways.
1:41:36
I think it's a brilliant script, and I've seen this one quite a
1:41:40
lot because it's one of the ones that was out on VHS early in
1:41:43
which I borrowed and watched again and again and again.
1:41:46
So I know it pretty well. And every time I'm struck by how
1:41:50
clever and how subtle this writing is, how clever it is
1:41:54
that Iron Grown and Lynx are basically the same character and
1:41:58
they both think the other is uncivilized for different
1:42:00
reasons. The the, the, the comics.
1:42:05
I mean, it's basically a comedy script with some pretty high
1:42:09
stakes and I think Jon Pertwee and Elizabeth Slayton throw
1:42:14
themselves into that and play it absolutely for real.
1:42:17
But it's it's really funny that that it is kind of talking about
1:42:23
this season being a bit of a soft reboot and a bit of a fresh
1:42:26
feel. I mean they do they go back in
1:42:28
history and it's and it's Doctor Who in an exciting yarn with
1:42:31
some some some Knights and some peasants and it's got it's got
1:42:36
all the kind of cliches but they're all quite well drawn
1:42:38
characters and they're and the dialogue is so funny and so well
1:42:42
written and the terms of phrase you get in there, it's such a
1:42:44
quotable script. I think that's I'm just going to
1:42:49
be stating the obvious but of all these stories I think the
1:42:53
design is the strongest. I think it's it's a it's a
1:42:57
pretty convincing medieval England and clearly at the
1:43:04
center of it is the Sontaran design.
1:43:06
You've got this incredibly alien looking spaceship.
1:43:10
So simple but but so jarring in that context and the design of
1:43:14
the Sontaran is is rightly lauded as well.
1:43:16
You know one of the great things to come out of classic Doctor
1:43:18
Who is it's a brilliant design brilliantly alien and and yet it
1:43:24
is still a punchline. You know the joke is that he
1:43:27
takes off his helmet and his head is the same shape you know
1:43:29
which it's a it's a brilliant joke as well.
1:43:34
I could go on but I but I want to let other people talk because
1:43:37
otherwise I'm just going to be listing kind of I'm just going
1:43:39
to start quoting it and and going through it from episode
1:43:42
one onwards. But I can't.
1:43:44
I can't see how you wouldn't enjoy this story.
1:43:46
It's it's it's just it's a it's a decent yarn and I think it's
1:43:54
perfectly well realized, not perfectly realized.
1:43:57
But I think there's nothing in this that gives me kind of any
1:44:00
any trouble. I know that Barry Letts felt the
1:44:03
special effects were a little bit disappointing as a child.
1:44:07
As the child who would have spotted the wrinkles in the in
1:44:09
the The Rug of Doom in Death of the Daleks.
1:44:12
I thought that castle exploding was as good as the explosion in
1:44:15
the demons didn't have a problem with it at all.
1:44:18
Great score as well. Dudley Simpson again.
1:44:21
Just lovely stuff. Should we go to the comments,
1:44:25
Joe? Yes, OK.
1:44:27
Start us off. Yeah, so Lucy, McCall said.
1:44:30
It's my favorite for the historical setting, the
1:44:32
introduction of Santorin and best of all, the introduction of
1:44:34
Sarah Jane as an intelligent companion with an inquiring
1:44:38
mind, something that carries on in dinosaurs.
1:44:41
Paul Quinn says Holmes's second truly great script.
1:44:45
Oh, I wonder what the 1st is Lynx.
1:44:48
Is that Rarity a monster that is also an individual character?
1:44:51
The part we run is very good on that.
1:44:54
Michael Storm said I'm prepared for some aggressive cutting, but
1:44:57
the Time Warrior is the worst of the season.
1:45:00
Direction is incredibly flat. The story's laid out straight
1:45:03
away, rubbing, rubbing any mystery to the events other than
1:45:06
Lynx Lyngrom. The supporting characters are
1:45:08
dull and pound shop Timbrook Taylor is annoying.
1:45:12
I presume he means Professor Rubbish.
1:45:13
Oh, Joe, Lewellen says. A fantastic introduction to one
1:45:18
of the great companions and monsters.
1:45:21
So, Taylor. Edwards, yeah, Taylor, Edwards
1:45:23
said. One of the best home scripts.
1:45:25
Michael Donahue says Sarah is great from the off links is a
1:45:28
great villain and it's good to see Pearl we in historical for
1:45:31
once. Rich says the Time Warriors the
1:45:34
best story. It's introduced to Sontarans and
1:45:36
Gallifrey and there's a strong star for the character Sarah.
1:45:39
The story is also a great jumping on point for new
1:45:41
viewers. The pairing of Pearl Ian Slayden
1:45:44
is hugely underrated. And the last word goes to Tony
1:45:48
Feiler, who says hard to beat time warrior on any level.
1:45:52
Stands tall amongst the best of who?
1:45:55
Who? Who was it who said the
1:45:57
characters were dull? Is.
1:45:59
That Michael Storm. It was.
1:46:02
I mean, you've got I I think Blood Axe is as good a character
1:46:05
as Iron Gron and as a double act they are.
1:46:07
They are absolutely brilliant together, I think.
1:46:09
I think he's his earnestness, his being even thicker than Iron
1:46:13
Gron is, is a brilliant joke and brilliantly written.
1:46:15
I think that Edward of Wessex and Lady Ellen are a brilliant
1:46:19
character. You've got June Brown there, for
1:46:20
goodness sake, being absolutely, you know, clearly wearing the
1:46:23
trousers in that relationship. She just needed this, the fag
1:46:26
hanging out. She almost think she couldn't
1:46:29
have done the lines in the dark cotton voice.
1:46:32
That just would have been so. She says.
1:46:34
You mean you're going to brew up a potion to slay the dog?
1:46:37
Oh, I got. To talk, to slay my neck.
1:46:42
Oh, yeah. Oh.
1:46:43
So yeah, it could have been better then.
1:46:45
It could have been better. Yeah, And a word of praise also
1:46:49
for Meg, the greatest wench Doctor Who has ever seen in that
1:46:56
wig. It's like someone in the costume
1:46:58
department said should we Shall we comb this wig?
1:47:00
No, let's just buy. Should we put it on straight?
1:47:03
No, no, let's just put it. Let's put it on, see what she
1:47:05
does with it. And she she runs with the wig.
1:47:08
It's been in a cupboard since. An unearthly trial?
1:47:10
Yes. The way she chews out, that was
1:47:13
it. Oh my dear, I'll give you bread
1:47:15
and cheese, but you'll have to wear an X feel like it's cracky
1:47:20
carbon edge or what do you think?
1:47:23
Well, I like it as well. I'm sorry.
1:47:26
It's, you know I'm, I'm finding positives in everything here.
1:47:29
So it's it's probably not that. You want a new series episode,
1:47:33
shouldn't we? No, I'm.
1:47:34
Not. Getting him on anything with
1:47:37
Murray Gold from what he said, No.
1:47:38
No, no, no, no, no, no. Well, I think going back to the
1:47:43
whole reboot thing, it's, you know, it's, it's strange for
1:47:48
there's a couple of fans that think that Perkins phoning it in
1:47:50
because I think he's really energized at this.
1:47:53
It's almost kind of like he feels refreshed by the whole the
1:47:57
whole new challenge, which is weird because they filmed it
1:48:01
straight after the green death, which was when, you know, just
1:48:05
just after the case of Manning. There it was.
1:48:09
I think it was actually a couple of days before Rochdale Gardel
1:48:12
was sadly killed in the road accident.
1:48:16
I think it's four days before, but John Perry feels really
1:48:19
energized and there are just so many funny jokes in this.
1:48:25
And I think one of them is like the bit when rubbish says, you
1:48:29
know, yeah, John Perry goes, oh, I've got to go off and meet and
1:48:32
find a young girl. I really goes a young girl.
1:48:34
I thought it was too old for that sort of thing as pricey.
1:48:37
It's just for delivery as well. That is the dirtiest joke to
1:48:41
that point in Doctor. Who?
1:48:42
Yeah, yeah. Of course.
1:48:43
These days they make a meal out of it, you know, perhaps an
1:48:46
innuendo would just make, you know, song and dance back.
1:48:49
But here it's quite subtle and it's quite innocent and it's
1:48:51
more funny, I think. Yeah, the the I I really like
1:48:57
the setting of it. It's it's quite unusual for the
1:49:00
Doctor actually to go back in time, going back to what
1:49:03
somebody said about Timbrook Taylor.
1:49:05
They'd just done the goodies episode Camelot a couple of
1:49:07
weeks before which is you know it's sort of a similar kind of
1:49:11
feel to it. But you know there's a lot of
1:49:14
fun as well in this one. It's it's quite surprisingly,
1:49:18
quite light hearted because you know the the John Perk we use
1:49:22
are quite normally quite serious and quite deserved.
1:49:25
But this has got a lot of welcome humor in it and I think
1:49:28
it's kind of revitalized. John Perk we it was also really
1:49:31
funny is the the robot knight when he pretends to do I got any
1:49:37
fights against him and he goes isn't that a big unsporting old
1:49:41
chap you know and it's just so many funny lines in it and also
1:49:48
what James said about the the exploding all of it.
1:49:51
I I don't mind that. I think actually I think the CGI
1:49:53
version was rubbish compared to it looks like some really cheap
1:49:57
computer game that was came out in 1995.
1:50:00
You just it's, you know. Nothing wrong with the original
1:50:03
at all, I think. That makes me so sad, that
1:50:05
documentary where Barry Letts sits there and says, and at last
1:50:08
I'm going to be able to watch this with the special effects it
1:50:11
deserves. Oh, and that CGI is appalling,
1:50:13
isn't it? Yeah.
1:50:15
Yeah, it's it's just rubbish. I mean, God, you know, just
1:50:18
leave it as it is, you know, to be honest, I, you know, I feel
1:50:23
like it's kind of heresy watching it with CGI effects,
1:50:27
you know, not not just this one, but any of the ones that have
1:50:29
got, you know, redone effects. I mean just it's, you know, it's
1:50:34
what CD was at the time, you know, take it or leave it.
1:50:37
And in this case, I take it you know completely the story is
1:50:42
good and I nominate to keep it. I'm going to keep it in as well.
1:50:47
Yeah. I think it's a great story.
1:50:48
I mean the fact that some Tyrants was such a well realized
1:50:52
race, the fact they're still around today and we're still
1:50:54
talking about them and they're in the current series I think
1:50:57
just is testament to the fact that Holmes came up with a quite
1:51:00
a unique strong concept for for a villain.
1:51:04
The design is is absolutely superb.
1:51:06
I don't think actually it's ever been battered.
1:51:08
I think the original Links and Kevin Linds performance is just
1:51:13
yeah it's just on point and I think that's a say.
1:51:17
The fact that it's still around today says it was a really good
1:51:19
design. The setting like you say this is
1:51:21
this is per was only all pseudo historical and I think he really
1:51:25
revels in that and Holmes definitely revels in it because
1:51:29
it gives him opportunity to go full blast with with that
1:51:32
language and users Palomia language as you can possibly
1:51:35
get. I'm going to call out the scene
1:51:37
in the kitchen in episode 3 between poetry and Slade, and
1:51:40
which I think is just a lovely scene in the history of Doctor,
1:51:43
with Sarah coming to kind of terms with the fact that Doctors
1:51:46
alien and he's a Time Lord and it's it's just so playful and
1:51:51
delightful. And poet, he says, Oh yes, Time
1:51:53
Lords are sort of intergalactive ticket inspectors.
1:51:56
No, it's just lovely dialogue and loads of quotable lines in
1:51:59
this, you know, a straight line. What is it?
1:52:02
A straight line is the shortest distance between two points.
1:52:05
But it's by no means the most interesting.
1:52:09
I'm serious about what I do, but not necessarily about how I do
1:52:12
it. I mean, there's so many quotable
1:52:13
lines and this isn't that. It's.
1:52:15
Yeah, it's comedy. If comedy throws sometimes I
1:52:20
feel it's just missing. I'm not sure what it is.
1:52:22
It's really hard to quantify, but it just feels like it's
1:52:26
missing one small. Element.
1:52:28
To kind of take it into the the greatest echelons, but yeah,
1:52:32
generally it's pretty damn solid.
1:52:34
Although I would ask what what some tyrants have got against
1:52:37
robots, because the robot in this and then the robot in the
1:52:40
Sontaran experiment, they have the most appalling robots.
1:52:43
How are they doing so well in the war against the Rotoms?
1:52:46
Because they can't make a robot for to save their lives.
1:52:50
And finally, obviously, got to mention Elizabeth Slayton, her
1:52:53
debut. You know, she just hits the
1:52:56
ground running from from day one.
1:52:58
She's just, I think I mentioned before, she's incredibly
1:53:00
naturalistic. The scene where she gets dragged
1:53:02
off by Irongren's men, Mr. Sham, get off.
1:53:06
It's just really natural and it feels quite different companions
1:53:09
that we've had in the past. When the Doctor exasperates and
1:53:13
she's like, oh, murder a cup of tea.
1:53:15
It's just you just feel she's real, she's human and she's
1:53:18
lovely. So yeah, for lots and lots of
1:53:20
reasons, I'm going to put this one through.
1:53:25
I'm also going to put this through.
1:53:27
I mean, I couldn't argue against any of what any of you are
1:53:29
saying. It's just really fucking funny
1:53:32
this isn't it. It's so funny.
1:53:35
And I think Tops, who can cover a multitude of sins if it's
1:53:38
funny it. But it's not actually committing
1:53:40
any sentences. It's beautifully designed.
1:53:43
It's got terrific location work. I think Alan Bromley's direction
1:53:46
is a lot better. A lot of people say it's very
1:53:48
pedestrian. I think he shoots brilliantly on
1:53:50
location and he's not too bad in the studio either.
1:53:54
It's well lit, The costumes are great, the music was great.
1:53:57
As James said, it's got it, gives it real pace, but it is
1:54:01
just so funny. Unfortunately, you've stolen one
1:54:04
of the three lines I was going to quote as to why this is so
1:54:07
great. Galactic ticket inspectors, oh,
1:54:10
I could murder a cup of tea. It's just brings it all down to
1:54:13
the domestic level. But my favorite Sarah Jane line
1:54:16
is why don't you take off that ridiculous gear and go home to
1:54:20
your butcher's shop? I love that bit.
1:54:23
And of course in episode 4 where she just goes look at that great
1:54:26
spider, which is very funny. Again, it's just it's just
1:54:30
incredibly witty script. It's sort of between this and
1:54:34
Carnival of Monsters. I think For Home is his funniest
1:54:37
script. This one might win out, but
1:54:39
yeah, it's a win. It's a great start to the
1:54:41
season. It's a brilliant introduction of
1:54:43
Sarah Jane and the Sontarans and it's just a great historical Rob
1:54:47
as well and we haven't had enough history in Doctor Who for
1:54:50
a long time. Oh, unless we forget.
1:54:53
It's like you're living in the Middle Ages.
1:54:55
How? Did I forget that one?
1:54:57
Oh man. Oh, that's funny.
1:55:00
It was very. Brilliant.
1:55:02
So we get to the end of round one, Round two, but oh, it's
1:55:06
much shorter. Round two, it's very short, all
1:55:09
right. Additionally, we do it in about
1:55:10
3 seconds. Yeah, we've knocked two stories
1:55:13
out. So the first one we lost,
1:55:14
unbelievably, was planned to the spiders, and then death to the
1:55:18
dialects also went by the wayside.
1:55:20
So we're left with Time Warrior Dinosaurs and Peloton.
1:55:23
So what we're going to do here is I've got a random generator,
1:55:25
I'm going to spin it, pick two stories against each other, and
1:55:29
we've just got to decide which is our favorite.
1:55:32
So the wheel. The hamster wheel.
1:55:35
Of Spain that he's going to have to do this the.
1:55:38
First one is invasion of the dinosaurs and Invention of
1:55:42
Dinosaurs will be playing the Time Warrior.
1:55:46
Oh shit. No one wanted that to happen,
1:55:50
did they? No, no.
1:55:54
That was Paladon's in the final. So pretty much whatever wins,
1:55:59
this is going. To win partially responsible.
1:56:01
Sorry. I'm going to choose the time
1:56:04
warrior. It's shorter, it's funnier.
1:56:08
I think on the whole it's better.
1:56:09
Better realized, yeah. So the Time Warrior for me.
1:56:13
I'm going Invasion of the Dinosaurs, because I think
1:56:15
there's a bit more to it. It's got something more to say,
1:56:20
yeah, it's made. It's making more of a point.
1:56:23
Sticks probably does drag a little bit.
1:56:25
We could have lost the chase sequences or in, you know, for
1:56:27
half of episode 5, but it's got a lot more to say.
1:56:31
So I'm going with Invasion of the Dinosaurs, James and John
1:56:38
Very. Intense, isn't it, when they
1:56:43
release a special edition of Invasion of the Dinosaurs and
1:56:47
edit UNIT out of episode one and then edit all the spaceship
1:56:51
scenes together so that we don't know that Sarah actually is just
1:56:54
on a fake spaceship, that from the moment she's on it and they.
1:56:59
Need to edit out the blood that's on her head because
1:57:01
that's still fresh even though it's three months later.
1:57:05
Yeah. Or put a hat on her or
1:57:06
something. Acgi hat or something, because
1:57:08
they probably would have done, yeah, yeah.
1:57:11
Then then I think then I think dinosaurs will be in with a
1:57:14
chance. But it's too.
1:57:15
There are too many problems with it.
1:57:17
And as I say, I think it's it's just slightly trading on former
1:57:20
glories. It's not the best deserted
1:57:23
London story. It's not the best Doctor Who
1:57:26
goes into the underground story. So I am voting for the Time
1:57:29
Warrior. Sorry, I'm going to go with
1:57:31
Invasion of Dinosaurs because I think there's a lot to recommend
1:57:34
there. I I really like the atmosphere
1:57:36
of it. I like the intrigue, I like the
1:57:39
plot. I like the twists and turns.
1:57:41
And I think it proves that Doctor Who was still willing to
1:57:45
try something different at this point, you know, and actually
1:57:47
have one of the units team go, you know, go rogue.
1:57:50
It's actually kind of like, you know, the, you know, the
1:57:53
beginning of the end, I think of a couple of years.
1:57:56
It's actually seeing that team break up.
1:57:58
It's actually seeing it break up on the screen as well.
1:58:01
So sorry guys. Invasion of the dinosaurs.
1:58:04
For me, OK, well, because we've got another story.
1:58:06
Let's park that for the time being and let's see.
1:58:10
You never know what might happen.
1:58:12
So we've got invasion of the dinosaurs and obviously it's got
1:58:20
to be Monster of Paladon. So Paladon versus Dinosaurs, I'm
1:58:27
not going to be that contrary. I'm going to go for dinosaurs.
1:58:30
Dinosaurs. James Oh, look, head, says
1:58:38
Peloton, actually. But heart says dinosaurs.
1:58:41
Dinosaurs as well. OK, so Peloton falls into third
1:58:46
place. So we've got we've got a battle
1:58:48
between what, Time Warrior and dinosaurs.
1:58:50
Oh man, no one's going to budget.
1:58:53
We've there's got to be some concession somewhere.
1:59:00
Is anyone sitting on the fan? OK, let me really I'm going to
1:59:04
lay into dinosaurs Now. One of the one of the the
1:59:06
problems with dinosaurs that is is writ large from the beginning
1:59:10
is that every single guest character is a traitor.
1:59:13
And, you know, it becomes so obvious, and it's not even like
1:59:16
one of them is left until the final episode.
1:59:19
They're all revealed by the end of part three.
1:59:20
We know that they're all traitors.
1:59:22
And it pretty much is kind of like, well, OK, the only person
1:59:25
left who could be a traitor is the Brigadier.
1:59:26
But when the twist is that the Brigadier is not a traitor, you
1:59:30
know that the storytelling has taken a wrong turn somewhere.
1:59:34
I think there's Although I Went for Dinosaurs, there is more
1:59:38
padding in dinosaurs than there is in Time Warrior.
1:59:43
I'll concede. I'll, I'll concede yes.
1:59:46
I'll go time warrior. Do you know sorry, I'm I'm.
1:59:50
Going to be a turncoat. I don't know how I knew it was
1:59:53
going to come down to Invasion of Dinosaurs and the Time
1:59:56
Warrior for that season. And Time Warrior takes it.
2:00:01
So we've got a winner. I'm not going to say clear
2:00:04
winner, but we've got a winner for Season 11.
2:00:07
Thank you very much, gentlemen. Well, we found nice things to
2:00:10
say about all five of the stories.
2:00:11
We did. And in fact the passionate
2:00:13
defence of Monster of Peloton was nothing.
2:00:15
I didn't think I'll see that coming a mile off.
2:00:17
So thank you for that. Surprised myself, Actually so.
2:00:22
Indeed. Thank you all for your views and
2:00:24
opinions. Next podcast.
2:00:26
It's season 18, so we're through to a time of lots of birds and
2:00:31
lots of entropy and lots of techno bubble.
2:00:35
James John, would you like to direct people to your social
2:00:38
media or plug anything that you're involved in at the
2:00:41
moment? Well, you can find me on The
2:00:46
Artist Formerly Known as Twitter at James Lark, and I have a
2:00:52
podcast of my own. It's not been updated very
2:00:54
recently, but there are some more episodes planned for 2024.
2:00:58
It's called Neurotic Literature. Neurotic, not erotic.
2:01:03
Don't search for that unless well.
2:01:05
I was already looking. I'm that's already.
2:01:07
Interesting. If you're prepared to live with
2:01:10
the nightmares but no neurotic literature, it's it's short
2:01:13
stories and they've been described as what PG Wodehouse
2:01:19
would have written if he'd written horror.
2:01:22
Excellent. It sounds most intriguing, John.
2:01:27
Well, my, that's. I still call it Twitter.
2:01:30
If if you couldn't spell it, then it's John Bensale.
2:01:34
That's Twitter and. That's it.
2:01:36
No, that's not it. Excuse me.
2:01:39
John has written a range of fabulous Doctor Who review books
2:01:44
called Perpetual Outsider, of which I have read all of them
2:01:48
several times. They're in separate volumes.
2:01:50
They're available as ebooks. Check them out on Amazon.
2:01:54
He's a very smart, very funny writer.
2:01:56
Why didn't you mention those? Thank you.
2:01:58
I forgot they're £1.80 each Kindle.
2:02:04
They are such witty reviews. I just.
2:02:07
I absolutely adore. I love your writing.
2:02:10
Perpetual outsider. Go and find them.
2:02:13
Brilliant. So all that remains is us to
2:02:16
thank so much James and John, for being 2 superb guests for
2:02:22
our third. Thanks for having me.
2:02:23
Thank you very much. You are most.
2:02:25
Welcome. And you're both most welcome
2:02:26
back again for a future installment.
2:02:30
And that's it. That's it for tonight.
2:02:31
So thank you for listening, Joe. I know.
2:02:33
What I've got to say Are you ready this time?
2:02:35
Yeah, I'm ready. Fantastic.
2:02:36
OK. So thank you for listening.
2:02:38
And until next time, keep. Listening.
2:02:43
Goodnight.