Latest / Arroe Collins Like It's Live / The Playbook From Joshua Robinson The Hidden Forces Shaping Modern Football

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The Playbook From Joshua Robinson The Hidden Forces Shaping Modern Football · Arroe Collins Like It's Live

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: So have you been there yet? Arrow.net, A-R-R-O-E.net. Don't just
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: think of one podcast. We are so far beyond that.
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: It's the power of choice. 21 different podcasts for you
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: to just kind of surf through, to find your new vibe,
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: to get into it, to talk about it, and maybe
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: to create your own. Arrow.net, A-R-R-O-E.net. Enjoy your exploration. Good morning, Joshua.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: How are you doing today?
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: I'm very well. How are you?
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: Absolutely excited to share a conversation with you because I'll
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: tell you what, I went into last night's first opening
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: game knowing what was in your book and you have
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: really re-educated me as a football fan and as somebody
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: who loves to get into marketing and the mindsets behind
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: what it takes to create not just a big football team,
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: but we're talking about success in the business financial world
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: as well when it comes to football.
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: I think that's right.
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: And it's about knowing how to adapt, knowing how to
• 0:59
  Speaker 3: read the marketplace and zigging when everyone else is zagging.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: Oh my God. And last night they were zagging because
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: when Sam went out, I mean, it was like, Oh
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: my God, those, those television dollars because everybody's going to
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: be diving out of this game. They're going to be
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: losing some money, but, but man, did they pull that
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: monkey off or what last night? That to me is
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: what the NFL is all about.
• 1:20
  Speaker 3: Well, it's, it's really about, um, You know, Drew Locke
• 1:23
  Speaker 3: was ready to come in and pick up from Sam Darnold.
• 1:27
  Speaker 3: And it's those systems that are in place. There are
• 1:30
  Speaker 3: a million fail safes for all of these teams. And
• 1:33
  Speaker 3: what they've done so smartly, especially teams like the Seahawks,
• 1:37
  Speaker 3: is figured out a system for their 53 guys and
• 1:41
  Speaker 3: know what role each of them has to play. And
• 1:43
  Speaker 3: by the way, how they're going to pay them accordingly. Yeah.
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: Now, do you see last night as being one of
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: those situations where Sam is out, so therefore the new
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: guy comes in? It kind of reminds me so much
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: of when Frank Reich first came to the Carolina Panthers,
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: and then we were all shouting Kerry Collins' name. I mean,
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: it's like every team has a story like last night,
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: and it creates conversation, dude.
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: The conversation never goes away. The NFL plays 17 weeks
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: of regular season, but the conversation lasts 52.
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: So now is it really, really a goal to help
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: prevent dynasties? Because I swear to God, this generation love,
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: I mean, even though, you know, people are going Kansas
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: city or, or, or the Patriots, I think deep inside,
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: they're going, I love them. I love them.
• 2:28
  Speaker 3: This is, this is not a decision that the fans make.
• 2:31
  Speaker 3: This is a decision that not even the NFL makes today.
• 2:34
  Speaker 3: This has been baked into the very structure of the
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: NFL since the start.
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: The idea that, um, It's more.
• 2:41
  Speaker 3: Important to prop up every team than it is to
• 2:44
  Speaker 3: have one crushing everybody else. And that goes back to
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: guys like Wellington Mara and the Giants saying, OK, we're
• 2:51
  Speaker 3: prepared to give up a little bit of television money
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: if it helps this team from Green Bay, Wisconsin, stay alive. Yeah.
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: Well, because my eye is always on that salary cap.
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: And I'll tell you what, we're going to bring up
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: the NBA just for a second. But when the NBA
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: Clippers got busted the last week, I mean, it's like,
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: oh my God, am I learning something new about how
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: they're playing and toying around with that salary cap money?
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: And is it going to come in and poison my NFL?
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: Well, I don't think the NFL is quite at risk
• 3:17
  Speaker 3: of it yet, but the salary cap, you know, you've,
• 3:20
  Speaker 3: you've hit the nail on the head here is the
• 3:23
  Speaker 3: big math changing event that is kind of the BCAD
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: moment for the NFL. The modern NFL starts with the
• 3:31
  Speaker 3: salary cap because that's when it transforms from an exercise
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  Speaker 3: in just finding the best 53 football players you can
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  Speaker 3: find and into this giant puzzle of resource allocation. It's
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: not the best 53. It's who are the best 53
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  Speaker 3: that I can fit into these constraints. And then suddenly
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: you have to decide which positions you're going to pay,
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: how much you're going to pay them, and where you're
• 3:55
  Speaker 3: going to find value. And the next thing that changed
• 3:57
  Speaker 3: was the reintroduction of the rookie wage scale in the
• 3:59
  Speaker 3: early 2010s. And once you've got that, you create an
• 4:02
  Speaker 3: entire class of undervalued guys for the first four years
• 4:07
  Speaker 3: in the league. Basically, you pay them nothing. But if
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: you can find gems, especially a quarterback, then you are
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: jamming open a championship window immediately.
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: See, these are the meetings I want to be a
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: part of because I want to go into that negotiating
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: and to sit there and just listen. They don't have
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: to go, hey, Arrow, what do you think? No, no, no.
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: I'm just here to listen because we never get to
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: see the contract writer. All we hear about is what
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: comes out of the meeting. But God dang, I want
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: to know what goes on during the meeting.
• 4:37
  Speaker 3: It's you know, it's it helps to have geniuses at
• 4:42
  Speaker 3: X's and O's and guys who can spot talent anywhere.
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: But these days in the NFL, it also helps to
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: have an accounting degree. Yeah.
• 4:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: Speaking of X's and O's, I think there's a game
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: changer invisibly coming onto our path right now, and it's
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: coming from the lottery people because there they are with
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: the Powerball with the X's and O's, and you get
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: to pick your eight teams is what it is, eight teams.
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: I am sitting there excited about that because it's going
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  Speaker 1: to give me a perfect view of who people are
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  Speaker 1: really planning to be as fans because I don't think
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: we're loyal to one team anymore, and I think they're
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: ahead of the game by saying, no, you're not, and
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  Speaker 1: we're going to find out who you're picking.
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  Speaker 3: Well, I think it's definitely something that's happening across all
• 5:23
  Speaker 3: sports where people don't have the attention spans to sit
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: through entire games anymore. They're not necessarily following just one team.
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  Speaker 3: But if you're watching highlights, if you're watching YouTube and
• 5:34
  Speaker 3: social media, then you just want to see fireworks all
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  Speaker 3: the time.
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  Speaker 2: I do.
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  Speaker 3: I do.
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  Speaker 1: That's me. That's me. I mean, the reason why I
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: watched that game last night was because of Drake May
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: because he's from Charlotte. He came into my grocery store
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: all the time. So therefore, I mean, it just makes
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: me an automatic Patriots fan. But the problem is, though,
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: I'm a Carolina Panther fan. I'm cheating on my team.
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: Well, we won't tell anybody.
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: But you see how we're easily swayed like that? Or
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: is that just something that's always been going on? And
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: it's great marketing on behalf of every one of these teams.
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: Of course, it's always been going on.
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  Speaker 3: That's why, you know, that explains the success of these
• 6:09
  Speaker 3: national broadcasts. Monday Night Football became a thing. Because they
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: correctly understood that no matter who you root for, if
• 6:17
  Speaker 3: they put a juicy enough matchup in that Monday night slot,
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  Speaker 3: America is going to watch.
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  Speaker 1: Come on, Joshua. You got to be like me, though.
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: Every night that there's not a game on, you're freaking out.
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: Because now I've gotten so programmed that I've got to
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  Speaker 1: have my game. Whenever it's on, I'm going to stop
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  Speaker 1: my world, stop my movie, and check out the football game.
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  Speaker 3: Well, you've got a Wednesday night this week.
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  Speaker 2: That was amazing. Yes.
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  Speaker 3: And then you've got Thursday night in Australia, which is
• 6:43
  Speaker 3: actually Friday morning over there. And then we go into
• 6:46
  Speaker 3: a full weekend. What more could you want?
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: Well, do you think that's going to change the face of,
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: let's say, we're going to have a follow-up to your
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: book once these outside countries really say, we want to
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  Speaker 1: play your game. We want to be a part of
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: this with season after season.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, it's possible.
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  Speaker 3: I think we will have a franchise abroad at some
• 7:04
  Speaker 3: stage in the next five or 10 years. But these
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  Speaker 3: games expanding into new territories, that's the last place for
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  Speaker 3: the NFL to go. The NFL has completely conquered America.
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  Speaker 3: So it's got to look beyond that.
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: The book we're talking about is the playbook, The Hidden Forces,
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: Shaping Winners and Losers in Modern Day Football. Could the
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: people of the 40s and 50s of football play in
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: today's game? And would they understand the rule changes?
• 7:33
  Speaker 3: That's a good question. And I think the short answer
• 7:35
  Speaker 3: is no. I mean, one, the size of the players
• 7:38
  Speaker 3: is so completely different. The physicality is.
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  Speaker 2: Unmatched.
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  Speaker 3: And so none of those, I'm not even sure the
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  Speaker 3: players of the 50s NFL could play in college today.
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  Speaker 2: Right, right.
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  Speaker 1: Well, and that just seems to be the big thing
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  Speaker 1: these days. I mean, because I was going to ask
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  Speaker 1: you about that as well. When is the NFL going
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  Speaker 1: to start going into these high schools and start drafting
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: those students? I mean, I think, well, I mean, Drake
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  Speaker 1: May did play for Carolina. But the fact of the
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: matter is, I mean, we could have a Kobe Bryant here,
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: pull him out of high school, get him right in
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  Speaker 1: the game. Or can they mentally and physically handle something
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  Speaker 1: like that?
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  Speaker 3: I'm not sure they'd be ready to handle it physically,
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  Speaker 3: but you never know. One or two absolute physical specimens
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  Speaker 3: might be ready.
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  Speaker 2: But I think emotionally it's very hard.
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  Speaker 3: The NFL is so big and I think it's different
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  Speaker 3: from the NBA because the pressures are so intense that
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  Speaker 3: we're not close to seeing that.
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  Speaker 2: Please don't move.
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  Speaker 1: We'll be right back with Joshua Robinson coming up next.
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: The name of the book, The Playbook, The Hidden Forces
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: Shaping Winners and Losers in Modern Football. We are back
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: with Joshua Robinson. What I love about your book, Joshua,
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: you and Jonathan both put together something here that I
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: wish I could get as part of my play-by-play on
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: the radio because I do listen to the games on
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: the radio. That, to me, is my imagination getter. And
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: the thing is, though, is that we don't get these
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: long stories that you're sharing like in this book. That's
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: why this book is so important to football fans, because
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: it is the story without commercial interruptions and there's no
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: 10-yard penalty.
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: Well, thank you. That's very flattering.
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  Speaker 3: But what we tried to do was really explain, you know,
• 9:14
  Speaker 3: the things that we don't get, as you say, from
• 9:16
  Speaker 3: the broadcast. Explain how the NFL is shaped today, because
• 9:23
  Speaker 3: it's not just X's and O's anymore. It's far beyond that.
• 9:27
  Speaker 3: And these front offices are making decisions in real time
• 9:30
  Speaker 3: all the time that shape what we see on a Sunday,
• 9:34
  Speaker 3: but that very few people actually get an insight into.
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: I thought the radio industry changed the rules every five seconds.
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: My God, the constant rules in the NFL right now.
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: I don't know how these front offices can keep themselves
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: going and without shifting every player that's in there because
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: new rules means new team people inside that office.
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: For sure.
• 9:56
  Speaker 3: Um but that's why they hire smarter and smarter people
• 9:59
  Speaker 3: those uh those nfl front offices are full of really
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  Speaker 3: really very brilliant people um who also know that they
• 10:07
  Speaker 3: can't be too rigid and that's the genius of somebody
• 10:10
  Speaker 3: like harry roseman or les sneed with the rems those
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: guys are constantly adapting And they're pulling in wisdom and knowledge,
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: not just from football, but from the business world, from
• 10:20
  Speaker 3: other sort of high performance and leadership philosophies. They are
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: always ready to address that NFL moving target.
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: Aren't we in a position in history where the transition
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: is taking place? The old time fan is starting to
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: fade off because that's what we do in life. But
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: yet the new fan wants more of the business side
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: of the NFL that it too can serve as an
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: inspiration if you study the business.
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: Definitely. I mean, it is a hundred billion dollar business.
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: And it just means it's too big for it to
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: be just football people anymore. And so you have it's
• 10:59
  Speaker 3: extremely compelling in terms of the lessons it can give
• 11:03
  Speaker 3: you for you know, any other enterprise you might be
• 11:06
  Speaker 3: involved in.
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: And the lessons are true.
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: And it's really a league of adapt or die. And
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: that's advice we can all take.
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: I'll tell you what, I swear to God that there
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: are many times I take, because I take notes all
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: the time. And one of the things that I'm seeing
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: as the NFL makes their moves and makes their decisions,
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: I swear that I'm seeing that Amazon, Kroger, and other
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: big businesses make moves like it as well. Whatever the
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: NFL is doing to shift their players, so are other businesses.
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: And I find that the NFL truly is a leader
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: in the world of business.
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: And it has certain advantages.
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: One, it's a monopoly.
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: That is the only game in town, and they have
• 11:45
  Speaker 3: various protections. But, you know, it comes back to, and
• 11:50
  Speaker 3: not to get too nerdy about it, but a 1961
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: act of Congress called the Sports Broadcasting Act. When Pete
• 11:56
  Speaker 3: Rozelle went before Congress and said, this is essential to
• 11:59
  Speaker 3: our business. We need to be able to act as
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: a group to negotiate our TV rights collectively. That changed
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: the game for the NFL. But more than that, by
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: the way, if it sounds like a cartel, That's what
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: it is. They act as a cartel, a legal one,
• 12:15
  Speaker 3: to negotiate and control the supply of professional football in America.
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: And they've made fortunes at it.
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: So in your writing and in your researching, there had
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: to be that tiny little voice that sat on your
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: left or right shoulder that said, hey, look, everybody's saying
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: that they write out the scripts for this NFL story.
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: They do it in the WWF or the WWE. Hey,
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: here's the thing. Would they do it in football? I mean,
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: because we do see some unbelievable, spectacular things that come
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: from left field. And it's like, that is so Hollywood.
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's the real deal in the way of, oh,
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: my God, we really are living this in the moment.
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: And that's the beauty of football. You don't need to
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: script it.
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: Why would they ever do that and compromise and adulterate
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: their product? Their product is so good and so compelling already.
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: And it's got 70 years of proof of concept that
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: they don't need to mess around with it. They can
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: just let it ride. And they know that America will
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: tune in.
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: Well, it's because, you know, I mean, Carolina came from
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: out of nowhere last year just to get into the playoffs.
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: And of course, you know, there's those of us, the
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: armchair quarterbacks going, I know what they're doing. Yeah, they're
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: building it up, man. They're writing the story. And that's
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: why I need people like you, Joshua, as well as Jonathan,
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: to make sure that we do stay straight with the
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: real history of the NFL.
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: And look, when a team rises from nowhere, that's not
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: Any sort of manipulation happening in that season. It means
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: that the NFL system is working. This is the system
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: that is designed to prop up teams that have been
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: in down periods and designed to punish winners in some ways.
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: If a team like Carolina comes up, it's because they've
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: used those mechanisms right in terms of, you know, making
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: the salary cap work for them. And, you know, using
• 13:58
  Speaker 3: draft picks and signing players at the right times in
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: their careers.
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: Oh, my God.
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: You can see that. That's very evident in the front
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: offices because I see a lot more presidents from different teams,
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: you know, getting into the social media world and you're
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: starting to see their side as well. I didn't have
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: that growing up where you heard from the team president.
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: It was always the coach and the team.
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: Correct.
• 14:21
  Speaker 3: And, you know, I think it just tells you a
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: lot about the direction.
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: The NFL is going, where....
• 14:28
  Speaker 3: It simply cannot be, as we said, about X's and
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: O's anymore. It can't be Paul Brown calling plays and
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: three yards in a cloud of dust.
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: It's not that anymore.
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: If you only think that you can win by making
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: good practices and designing a good playbook, then you've only
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: fought half the battle.
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: Are the best teams winning the divisions? And I am
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: reluctant to even bring that up because I can just
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: hear all these announcers looking at me going, you cannot
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: predict an injury, dude. Of course, the best teams are
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: making it to the divisions.
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: Well, look, I think it's an understanding.
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: There is an understanding in the smart front offices that
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: you have to judge based on process, not on outcomes.
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: And the playoffs and the postseason are so random that
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: you can't say, It's the Super Bowl or nothing. It's
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: the teams that have good processes that finish over 500
• 15:19
  Speaker 3: year after year that make the playoffs year after year.
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: Those are the ones that you can tell are smart
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: because they're pulling away from that big, soft middle of
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: the NFL and pushing against the rules and finding new
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: things to do. And that's teams like the Rams and
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: the Eagles. Look, I'll give you an example. A guy
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: like Howie Roseman in the Eagles. He's constantly pivoting, constantly
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: reading the market and looking around corners. This was a
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: league that had basically decided collectively in this big group
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: think that we didn't pay running backs anymore.
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: Their careers were too short. They were too injury prone.
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: And you weren't getting the most value out of them
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: in a passing league. It was at that time that
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: Howie Roseman looks at the market for running backs and thinks, hey,
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: they might be undervalued now because everyone's moved away from them.
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: So he goes out and spends a fortune on Saquon
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: Barkley and it wins him a Super Bowl.
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: Oh, my God.
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: Doesn't it, with all this research, just for one brief moment,
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: doesn't it feel like you're sitting in the office of
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: George Steinbrenner putting those Yankees together? I mean, because, I mean,
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: the dude, he knew what he was looking for. And
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: even Los Angeles, the Dodgers are going through the same
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: thing now. Build it up, make it strong, make it strong.
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: But is there a payoff in the end? Is there
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: a return on their investment?
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: But look, by comparison, baseball is easy. Baseball doesn't have
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: a salary cap. So if you've got the cash, you
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: can just go out and blow all that money and
• 16:36
  Speaker 3: promise Shohei Otani the moon. And you're going to be OK.
• 16:39
  Speaker 3: And it's going to turn into World Series rings. The
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: hard part is navigating the salary cap and fitting in
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: everybody into that puzzle.
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: How much do these two billion dollar stadiums play into this? Because,
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: my God, that's another cost that you got to put
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: on to these team owners.
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: It's a huge cost, but it's actually, you know, it's
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: a huge cost, but they're getting a lot of cities
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: to pay for them.
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: But it's also generating.
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: Vast, vast amounts of money that they can then use
• 17:08
  Speaker 3: to find clever ways to get around the salary cap
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: and funnel to players and that they can spend on
• 17:14
  Speaker 3: just making their clubs and their franchises a better place
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: for players to play and to perform.
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: I think sometimes they've got it wrong when it comes
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: to where we're watching the game. I swear to God,
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: I'm seeing more people watching it on their smartphones than
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: on TV. And it's like, oh, my God, is the
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: NFL tapping into that dollar amount?
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: They very much are.
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: Good.
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: They very much are.
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: The broadcast deal is the broadcast deal, and it's worth
• 17:38
  Speaker 3: $ 10 billion a season. Wow.
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: Where can people go to find out more about you, Joshua,
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: and Jonathan? Because I want them to know why you
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: are who you are and what you're striving to become.
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: We publish everything at The Wall Street Journal. That is
• 17:51
  Speaker 3: where we have our day jobs. I'm the sports editor
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: of The Wall Street Journal. Jonathan Clegg is the executive
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: news editor. And then our books, not just this one,
• 17:59
  Speaker 3: but our previous books on the English Premier League, on
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: global soccer. And on Formula One, those are all available
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: anywhere you buy books.
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: You got to come back to this show anytime in
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: the future, dude. I love breaking bread and talking reality
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: with you.
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: It would be a pleasure.
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: Well, you'll be brilliant today, okay, Joshua?
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: Thanks so much.