Latest / The JEMS Report / From Overdose Survivor to EMS Leader

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From Overdose Survivor to EMS Leader · The JEMS Report

• speaker-0: What's up everybody? Welcome to Just A Little Salt, the podcast hosted by me, the Salty Paramedic. If you or anybody you know wants to be on the show, make sure to send a request to Justalittle Salt Podcast at gmail.com. If you want to support the podcast and the work I'm doing for first responders, it's easy. Go on the saltyparamedic.com. Everything there, books, merch, resources, is built around this community. If you're looking for bonus episodes or content you're not going to hear anywhere else, make sure to join the Patreon. Go on patreon.com and search the salty paramedic. That support directly helps me keep bringing this content to life. Without further ado, thanks for listening. Here's the show. ⁓ boy, do I have a very special episode today. ⁓ if y'all don't know who this is, her name is Liz Harney. ⁓ she's got many hats. ⁓ she's done many amazing things. But the thing I'm most excited to talk about was our experience in medic class together. I got somebody that was in my paramedic class that saw me before all the salt. So we're gonna discuss that. We're gonna discuss what she's been up to lately and ⁓ I'll let you introduce yourself. speaker-1: Hi everybody, I'm Liz Harney. So currently I oversee all quality assurance and improvement processes for Baptist Health across Kentucky and Indiana. Among other things, ⁓ mentor with the Kentucky Leadership Academy and vice chair for the workforce committee for the Kentucky Board of EMS and co-founder for paramedic pathways, which we're trying to provide those good old scholarships to those seeking paramedic school ⁓ across Kentucky. ⁓ and ⁓ I'm only one capstone away from completing my MBA. So Yeah, yeah. We're getting it. speaker-0: So in other words, you're just as busy as I am, you know, and we we started in the same paramedic class. ⁓ did you ever think we would cross paths like this looking back? Absolutely. speaker-1: Absolutely not. We I you know, I talked about this a little bit earlier today, but you know, when you go through EMT and especially paramedic school, you you bond, but you trauma bond quite a bit, ⁓ because it's you were in the trenches for so long. ⁓ but I just I was just excited to graduate and and get the P. I didn't think I you looking far surpassed that. No, I would have never imagined. What are we at? Almost ten years later. ⁓ speaker-0: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. speaker-1: Almost ten years later that we're doing what we're doing. No. speaker-0: Yeah, yeah. I mean same. ⁓ back then it was just ⁓ I had a one year old at home and it just seems like life was a blur. I was just trying to get through it just like you. And then once I got that certification, I was like, All right, I kinda just want to chill a little bit. I don't want to do anything else because life has been so hectic. Yes. But now, ⁓ you know, we're both going around speaking around the country. We've ran into a ⁓ each other a few times and then I don't know about you, but I've I've been, you know ⁓ miles thousands of miles away and I've had somebody come up to me and ask me if I if I know you and that's just crazy, you know. We both just started off in class and now we're both kinda doing our own thing. It's just a cool experience. Yeah. speaker-1: No matter what state that I go to, it once people learn I'm from Kentucky, they go, Do you know the salty paramedic? And I'm like, Yes, I do, actually. We were in paramedics. speaker-0: I knew him before the mustache. speaker-1: It was a baby mustache at the time. It's evolved. speaker-0: Yeah, yeah, a little bit. what what do you remember about the first day of mediclass? speaker-1: I terrified. ⁓ I sat in the very back of the class. And I don't know if you remember, do you remember Dad? Yeah. Remember the the Brian that sat next to me? We called him Dad. ⁓ speaker-0: Dad? ⁓ yeah. Yes, the older gentleman. speaker-1: We were just back there together and i honestly with the amount of books that they handed us on day one, I mean they were taller than we were. and it was a little overwhelming to say the least. We were all hopeful but ⁓ but terrified at the same time. Yeah. I sat directly behind you. speaker-0: Yeah. You probably saw me just put my head down on the desk many times. Yes. speaker-1: Yes. That and and you were ⁓ a fabulous creator of the memes of your baby. speaker-0: I try to tell people, I've been making memes since ⁓ I had a phone. Like it's just always been in my nature. speaker-1: The original meme creator right here. speaker-0: It it got me through medic class and it's funny now I have people come up to me and say, Your videos get me through class. I'm like, that's that's just crazy to me. speaker-1: And it's crazy that ⁓ remember when, and John O, if you're listening, look at us now. Hey, hey, but ⁓ remember when John O had us do ⁓ we had to get up in the front of the class. I think we got in trouble. I'm not even I'm not even totally sure. I don't even think everybody else had to do it. I think I think we actually got in trouble. And we had to do this presentation in the front of the class and we were both terrified terrified that we're doing this presentation. I think it's funny that you fast forward 10 years and this is what we do electively. speaker-0: Yeah. Yes. Well I I I can't remember why, but I do believe we got in trouble for something and I remember slightly about having to present something and yes, terrified. And I tell people that all the time when I go and present around on like if you saw me years ago, I would have been shitting bricks right now. ⁓ yeah. If I if I knew I'd be doing this in front of this many people. speaker-1: Yeah. Yeah, I would have much rather done the whole thing where we ran around the school a bunch of times and up and down the stairs to get our heart rates up and then we had to run a code. That felt better than getting up in front and t and talking about like cardiothoracic medical issues. speaker-0: ⁓ yeah. Now looking back at that class, ⁓ what's one subject in particular that really you seemed to really struggle with and you were terrified of? It just it it was hard to hard to handle. speaker-1: Pharmacology speaker-0: Yes. That was what I was gonna say. speaker-1: I think I still have my drug book up here, I swear to God. It's probably all wrong now. ⁓ but you're you remember the hours we spent on those drug books? And then we would come into this blank sheet of paper, and then we would just have to like by memory know the the dose or the indication or the contraindication. ⁓ I think we all got like averaged like a forty percent on that course. speaker-0: ⁓ yeah. Yeah. Anytime somebody comes up to me and says, Hey, I'm in medic class right now, wha what do you recommend studying? And I tell them pharmacology and cardiology is what I focused on. And pharmacology especially, like that drug book you're talking about. I think I found it a few months ago and threw it away because it it brought up bad memories. But it was just I mean, huge, very, very thick binder. And it was just I remember I had a dry erase board and I was just writing out drugs. It was ⁓ man. speaker-1: Just brought up a good point. And you you had ⁓ your your dry erase board. You had actually mentioned that, and I'm like, that's a great idea. And so I I actually did that too ⁓ of just taking the classification of drugs. So say you have like sympathomimetics, and I would just go through and I would write down all of the pieces from that drug card on there. And it was all memorization. I mean, there was really nothing else like you could connect with that. It was all memorization, but it worked, and I recommend that to everybody. What's going through farm? It's a good job. It just keeps on going. speaker-0: ⁓ looking back at class, ⁓ you know, obviously it's it's a struggle for everybody. You know, people have to juggle family life, personal life, work. Was there ever a moment that you felt like you could really consider quitting, like maybe I couldn't do this? speaker-1: All the time. It it was a daily. I mean, honestly, and and even when I moved in as program director, like I knew that. I I knew that, you know, this program is such a gauntlet of a program because you have you have your academics and you have your furious testing and then you have lecture and then you've got clinicals and then you have your actual job that provides you money. ⁓ and then wait, you have a family too. So it is just The amount of hours that we worked and didn't get paid was wild. Wild. ⁓ it is ⁓ it is paramedic school is not for the week. That's that's for sure. speaker-0: What what's what would be like the funniest thing or or best story you remember from class? speaker-1: ⁓ gosh. I'll have to say it I'm going back to the time that he wanted us to to we he wanted us to work under pressure. And by doing that, we had to run around the building, which I'm sorry, none of us were in shape, especially those that were not in part of the fire business. Like I didn't work out. That wasn't a thing. And then having us on like a 90 degree day, run around the building and up and down the steps. I was dying. And then we had to go and intubate, which we had just learned that skill. We had to intubate and then somebody else was doing compressions. Now I'm all excited, right? Because I this is all this is so cool to me. And I'm like videoing because I'm like, this is so cool. Look at all it's doing. I get a call from John O that night and he was like, I'm gonna need you to take that down. And I'm like, ⁓ okay, why? It's because we had just learned that skill and it was all of our technique was atrocious. speaker-0: Yeah yeah yeah. speaker-1: And it really wasn't the point. The point wasn't the skill. The point was to be able to kind of get your adrenaline up and be able to focus on the steps that you needed to do. Like we will perfect the tick the perfect the technique, but the point was to work under pressure. ⁓ so when I posted that, it got shared by like a bajillion schools and entities and people just dogging this program because of the how horrible it was we were intubating and the way we were doing it. I was like, I'm sorry. speaker-0: Yeah, yeah. speaker-1: He s I talked to him the other day and he said that is still something that he brings up on day one of like, do not record like things without giving it to me first. speaker-0: That's fair. That's fair. ⁓ I I I briefly recall, which I know there's a picture out there. I don't remember what exactly what we went out somewhere with helmets on and harnesses. What team built yeah. speaker-1: It was at Asbury and we had to like and I'm afraid of heights, like ⁓ my God. And we were like swinging in trees like freaking Tarzan and we had the harnesses and we had the whole bit and we were like trying to work together as a team building thing and ⁓ it was raining and it was cold. ⁓ and we powered through it. Yeah. Adapt and overcome. speaker-0: Yeah, that was a that was a different experience. It's ⁓ like ⁓ I know the medic class we put on at my department, they have a day where they ⁓ throw mats on the ground and they practice mixed martial arts just like defensive techniques and that's always fun. So remember? Yeah. Something speaker-1: He took us to the MMA place and we got to learn like self defense. Now it's so funny because you know, fast forward when you actually have patients that are kind of, you know, kicking your ass back there. All of those skills that we learned that day, I don't remember those at all. I'm like, do I hold my hand here? I sh I no. speaker-0: Yeah, I'm just gonna fight for my life, whatever. there there's a ⁓ I I'm I'm precepting a medic student right now. He just got his numbers, so just gonna ride a few days with him, make sure he's good. Somebody brought up a point, they're like, ⁓ you know, if if Spaulding took a took a test with you right now, you'd probably kill him. And ⁓ that's completely true. So ⁓ talking about that, if you had to take that paramedic final from way back right now, do you think you're passing? speaker-1: Was hiding. right now as it stands, like have not brushed up, I would probably fail because even that thick med calculation book that we were we were given. I mean, that thing was thick. It was like a hundred pages long. I still get that out once a year and I go through it because I forget. I I it's almost those things of like if you don't use it, you lose it kind of situation. And those are the things that like you're tested on or all of these intricacies and things like that. Or, you know, even as you move into critical care, you're kind of more focused now on the vent or the balloon pump and things like that. And you kind of lost all of those, you know, the Parkland burn formula or you know, just things like that where you really don't use that, ⁓ but it's gonna be tested on. So I would if I didn't have proper prep, yes, I would I would fail. But you definitely have to like you gotta go back and you gotta brush the dust off the books there and look at it. So speaker-0: Yeah, we ⁓ that reminds me when I was first starting out as a medic, there's a guy that got promoted and he hadn't been riding on the ambulance a like he had he hadn't rode on the ambulance for a year or two. And we switched, we took Zopenex off the trucks and went to albuterol and I had this difficulty breathing patient. I said, Man, I said, ⁓ give me a breathing treatment and he was like looking at everything and where he it wasn't Zopenex anymore. He was just he didn't know what to do. And I saw him I kept looking over at him and he just had the the ⁓ mask in his hand and all the medicine and he just threw it on the ground and said, Get your own breathing treatment I still laugh about that story every time. Yeah. speaker-1: Yeah. Yeah, no, we gotta yeah, that's that's why Con Ed's a thing, you know, we gotta brush up on all all the pieces. But exactly sometimes with the testing the testing pieces, you know, you'll literally never see it or use it again. So that's what makes it hard. speaker-0: So so we've established we started in the same classroom, but the paths we took were pretty different. What happened between the Liz sitting back in paramedic school and the Liz sitting across from me today? What's the difference? speaker-1: ⁓ my gosh. Yeah. So even graduating, it was like such a feat. And then I ⁓ worked at an awesome service ⁓ that actually paired me with a medic to start. Because if you remember, I had been an EMT for about three seconds before I went to paramedic school. So I had very limited knowledge and or experience in terms of of being a provider. ⁓ so I know most organizations like once you get your numbers. They throw you into the deep end. They're like, good luck. There you go. And this one didn't do that. They they paired me with a actually, it was the assistant director. She was a paramedic herself. And I learned so much on just how to curtail my technique and my thought process and my critical thinking, ⁓ decision making, ⁓ things like that, where I almost had a safety net, if you will. So I was really fortunate to grow in that aspect of things. So when I finally, ⁓ you know, they finally separated us out and I had my first partner that was an EMT or whatever, I felt much stronger than I would have if I would have just been kind of thrown to the wolves. Because there is a there is a there is something that, you know, schools can't teach and that is experience. That's experience that you see. Not everything is going to fit inside of a of a textbook. ⁓ there's going to be things that fall on the outside of that. And so for me to have that kind of experience. It was great. ⁓ I worked there for quite a bit and then the school that I never thought I would ever enter back into. Like when we left those walls that day, I'm like, I never coming out. I'm never coming out. speaker-0: Yeah, I heard. speaker-1: They wrote me back in and ⁓ they're like, Hey, come teach this I teach this class or whatever. And so I did that, I loved it. And then ⁓ it wasn't too long before they asked me to be their clinical coordinator. I'm like, okay, cool. So I've got a business degree as well. So I kind of use some of those marketing techniques and things like that to really hit the pavement and open up a multitude of doors and experiences and things like that for the students of speaker-0: I had the same thought. speaker-1: Just thinking about all the things that I wish we would have had when we were in paramedic school. I really tried to to make it a well rounded experience and ⁓ to be able to provide all those opportunities. And then honestly, ⁓ I don't even know what they were thinking, but then they ⁓ they offered program director in my way and I speaker-0: Who, me? ⁓ speaker-1: ⁓ I know I'm sure like everybody in class was like, what? Man, you never wanted to leave, did you? ⁓ so yeah, I did that for a few years. ⁓ it was challenging. It was neat. It was so cool being a mentor or just so cool like having a chance to kind of ⁓ customize and create a program ⁓ that you feel like is going to be beneficial to create the well-rounded paramedic. ⁓ which kind of you know, going down the affective domain or making sure that this clinical rotation is going to satisfy this. And ⁓ so that was really cool. And then from there I went into hospital world. ⁓ also very different. So ⁓ creating the critical care paramedic program with St. Joe, they actually ⁓ utilize cr ⁓ paramedics at full scope ⁓ within the ERs. So ⁓ being able to provide a program that ⁓ inept them with all of the skills that they needed in order to do that because it's different. ⁓ you're talking about you're not just managing one patient, you are managing multiple patients that all need multiple things and to truly be able to prioritize those needs in that way is very different. And now I'm I'm in the world of quality assurance. Who would have ever said that? ⁓ yeah. But it kind of all blends somehow, like from the educator to the provider, to working into the hospital world. Like I've kind of touched all these pieces within EMS, ⁓ and I'm able to kind of build programs that I'd love to build build new things that make things efficient. That's that's probably one of my favorite things ⁓ to do. So that's what I'm that's what I'm doing now. speaker-0: Yeah. That's that's awesome. let's let's rewind a little bit about your story before EMS. What got you into EMS? Mm-hmm. speaker-1: The topic. Yes. well, you know, it's funny because, you know, you had no idea, right? Until the very, very end. Yeah. but ⁓ I I wanted to be a paramedic because a paramedic saved me and saved me in more ways than than a clinical approach. And I had lived through 10 years of opioid addiction. speaker-0: No. speaker-1: And I was at a point where I had lost all the things. I had lost, ⁓ you know, I had lost custody of my son, I had lost my home, I had lost my car, I had lost my job, I had nothing left, and I almost lost my life. And you know, I was face to face with EMS, right in Lexington, Kentucky, and that provider It was such a it was such a unique experience with her because she was so different in terms of, you know, her position of authority and power, if you will, in into the role that she has. ⁓ into my moment of most utter defeat. You know, a lot of people don't know this, but the day that I had overdosed, I had just put together a whole year of sobriety and I lost it and I relapsed. And ⁓ my God. Like the amount of defeat you can't imagine the amount of defeat that you feel after losing a year of thinking that you got it and and you've lost it. And ⁓ especially with how sick I was. I it took me weeks to walk again. It was ⁓ I was in full rhabdomyalysis ⁓ because I had been in that contorted position for so long. I was really sick. I spent about a week in the hospital after that. But to wake up and be so So exhausted, so upset with yourself. you know, you're even mad that you woke up. You just, you're just done, you know. And then you've got some folks that are just looking at you and talking to you and treating you like you just don't matter. Let's just be honest. Like they treat you like you've interrupted their lunch break. You're just another addict. You're wasting my time. That's that was the approach that almost everybody else on that scene had. And then you have her, who still somehow found found like life behind my eyes. And and she just had this way of of making me believe that there was still life behind the eyes. And it was such a it was such a surreal moment. And she was so authentic about it. Like you knew she wasn't just Just just saying it like you could tell like she was truly being authentic in her words. And you know, when she she dropped me at the hospital, I I know she never in a million years thought any probably anything else about it, right? She went on to the next call and did did the next thing, but I never forgot her. Ever. I thought about her the entire stay at the hospital and I I thought about her for the next three months ⁓ post that hospital visit ⁓ before I decided to actually go into ENT school. speaker-0: That's ⁓ that's unreal. And that's that's something I talk about ⁓ when I go around speaking is one thing is showing compassion to your patients. ⁓ that's that's something I feel like a lot of us struggle with. That's something I struggle with. About five or five years into it, I was acting like that old salty paramedic, you know. ⁓ you know, I was getting disgruntled, all that stuff. And then my grandfather, he was getting really sick. ⁓ we were having a call for lift assists. And I remember one night in particular, this ⁓ elderly paramedic, his his number was probably one. He had been doing it forever. And he walked in at one in the morning. He'd been there multiple times that month in the middle of the night. Did not act like it came, addressed my grandfather, asked him how the family been, how he he'd been doing, helped us and went about his way. It was right then and there it clicked to me. I was like, you know, we have to show compassion to our patients. ⁓ it's not our jobs to judge. We have no idea their backstories. It's our job to help them. And just like this paramedic that helped you, like we have no idea the impact we could have on that person by just showing compassion. And that's ⁓ look look at everything that's blossomed from that, you know, like your your life has just completely changed. That that's so motivating to me as a provider. That ⁓ speaking of that, ⁓ have you ever reconnected with that paramedic? speaker-1: Yes. ⁓ it was actually during paramedic school. And again, you had no idea. I was in ⁓ the last my last ER clinical shift, which we know we had like hundreds of hours of ER clinical shifts, and it was at St. Joe East, and she ⁓ you know, we were working in the ER and I she walked in and I knew it was her immediately. And I'm like, ⁓ my god. And I she actually brought in a patient that had just OD'd. And I thought, ⁓ my gosh, thank God they have her immediately. Thank God they have her because I had been witnessing throughout all of these clinical rotations the the treatment of you know people in that patient population or frequent flyers or people that are not managing their CHF or COPD. You know, it was kind of that same just irritation, that same avoidance of kind of connecting that empathetic, that empathetic path. And so I'm like, ⁓ my god, thank God they have her. I she goes to the bathroom and I'm waiting outside like a lurker. I'm like there. I'm like, I'm gonna get her. And she comes out and I'm like, hey, you may not remember me, but I remember you. And she kind of looked at me and I said, It was in October of last year. And she said, You were off the exit 110 at this ho at this motel. And I said, Yes. And she goes, ⁓ my God. Like she sees my my school shirt and what I'm doing. And I'm like, I'm literally here because of you. And we had a moment. Like we her and I were both just blubbering in the in the hallway. And everybody's kind of looking like, what is going on? ⁓ so we came out and you know, we we took a picture and it was just, it's still something that I shared in my presentations today. But it was so cool for her because, and this is what good plays into our burnout and our compassion fatigue, is like we never get to see the good. Sometimes we never get to see somebody like come out and be successful and blossom as you as you you're stating. We only ever see the destruction, the the absolute chaos that it brings. And of course, if you're gonna see something so negative all the time or something that somebody has failed over and over and over again, of course it's easy to get. Burnt out about that. It's easy to lose that compassionate approach because you're just so you only ever see it one way. You never get to see somebody come out of it. So for her to be able to see wholeheartedly that what I did that day, even though I'd literally probably never thought about it again, when I got to see that my approach and my words. were so strong that it literally just changed this person's entire trajectory of their life. Not only are they maintaining sobriety, but now they've completely created this whole new passionate pathway for them. And they're gonna pay it back. They're gonna pay this forward for somebody else. And like that was huge, right? Like for us to be able to see that as providers, like we won't always be afforded that. A lot of times we'll influence people we'll never see again. But ⁓ for her to be able to to kinda connect that back with me was awesome. So she actually came to my paramedic graduation and we still we still stay in contact to this day. speaker-0: That's amazing. Yeah. I just, you know, ⁓ talking again about you talking about how ⁓ we constantly see ⁓ negativity and that that that ⁓ just bleeds off into how we act. ⁓ I there's a paramedic I work with, he's he's been a medic about a year and a half, and he had a ⁓ cardiac arrest the other day and it was his first ROSC. And ⁓ he's like, Man, that was so cool. Like that this makes me feel good. I'm like Yeah, I I know a lot of of patients are not gonna make it. And it that was the first time that I saw him that he had a genuine like reaction, like, hey, what I'm doing's pretty cool and I feel good about myself. I was very lucky my first year, ⁓ everybody everybody's like, What is Spaulding doing? 'Cause I had three ⁓ Ross and at our ⁓ awards banquet that year that I got life saving awards for. Now, the nine years after that, we're not gonna talk about that. I wasn't that lucky. speaker-1: You you had magic in the salt, man. speaker-0: Yeah, it it made me feel great. When I when I had three people walk out of the hospital I felt like, All right, you know, this is cool but then afterwards like, ⁓ man, this sucks speaker-1: Yeah. That feeling is is my first one. I I tell you, I had a the partner that I had, ⁓ she was ⁓ she was she was salty. She you might even call her the saltiest, but I freaking loved her and I honestly learned a lot from her. And I remember we got Ross back on this, you know, lady out of the skill nursing facility or whatever. And, you know, I wanted to bring her a Christmas present because I'm like, Awesome, right? So I get like a blanket and stuff. I go in there and I'm like, hey, you know, brought your Christmas present. We're just so happy that you're here. And ⁓ we walked out of there and she goes, She don't know who we are. I was like, Don't deflate me. This is the moment. We gotta have that though. We have to have those motivational things that what we are doing matters and what we're doing in as far as influence, whether that is speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: truly saving a life out of cardiac arrest, or maybe that was just being a kind voice to them on their worst day, whatever that is, like we have to be able to have those motivational cues to see like what we're doing is actually making a difference. That's why we got into this to start with. Like we want to make a difference. speaker-0: You know, it's it's not like the TV shows. We're not we're not gonna have instances like that all the time. Yeah. speaker-1: Yeah. We just get clouded with the with the with the bad sometimes. speaker-0: Times. Yeah, yeah. ⁓ once you ⁓ put on that uniform, you got your certification, ⁓ do you ever remember having interactions with patients that reminded you of yourself? ⁓ speaker-1: ⁓ all the time. All the time. I think my ⁓ my very first one, my very first overdose, which honestly it took a while for me to even get, which I know is crazy. I I I don't maybe it was just maybe it's just the the w the universe telling me I just needed a little Yeah. Now I remember my first one and my partner at the time, who wasn't my normal partner, but he was my partner for that day. But like he love him, but like he's 30 years on the job, twice retired. speaker-0: Yeah, yeah, yeah. speaker-1: mean mean and but but but he's a teddy bear at the same time you know ⁓ we went out and it was it was an overdose and I remember going out there and of course he didn't know my backstory or whatever so like internally I've got so many things in my mind and I'm like this is it Liz you're gonna make a difference today and we go out there and ⁓ it was a mom and ⁓ you know she had overdosed in her apartment and her speaker-0: ⁓ yeah. speaker-1: Kids were there. It was a rough scene. It really was. ⁓ because it, you know, a lot of that brings a lot of ⁓ scenes that you you don't ever want to kind of revisit in your mind. And he was so mad, like at this situation, because you got the kids crying, she's laid on the floor. Like he is, he's upset. And understandably, right? Like that's a really tough scene. And I just remember, you know, I'm like, I'll take this one. And I get her in the back, and she said. I just had a year sober. And I'm like, I know exactly what that feels like. And like I know exactly how she's feeling. And I just remember I bent down because I didn't want him to hear me. I didn't want him to hear my story. And I just said, I was just like you. Like I I I'm in recovery. I have this much time left. And I got to a point where I had, you know, a year sober and I lost it all. And I but you know what? You can always start again. And I just remember like hugging her. Like she didn't need any clinical intervention at that point. You know, what we had done, we had done. But in the rest of the ride there, she just needed like that compassionate care. And I'm so happy that I was able to provide that to her. I don't know where she's at today, but just to know that like I was able to to kind of be there for her in that time, just as somebody was for me, was was huge. So I I've seen myself a lot in the patients that I've had the privilege to tear. to take care of and I have shared, you know, you know, much to some ethical questions like in a community paramedicine exam, like you're not supposed to share things about yourself. That's what says. ⁓ but ⁓ but I do. And to provide them hope, to provide them somebody of like, yes, I've been there, but like this isn't the end. Like you can do this. And sometimes at someone's most utter moment of defeat, knowing that's like somebody else is exactly where you where you are right now or where they used to be is like that's huge. That's a huge thing. speaker-0: Yeah, so I mean you've you've made a difference in the field as far as trying to help ⁓ patients that you connected with. ⁓ now you go around the country and do talks as well. Do you remember the first time you publicly spoke about your story? speaker-1: Yeah. ⁓ it was ⁓ I'll back up just a second too. And, you know, whenever I kind of started getting into the educational space, I really wanted to make sure that the students also had a more a better understanding about, you know, these highly stigmatized patient populations to a point where like I've said this before, like I cannot teach you empathy in a book. It's not gonna happen. I can't stand up in the front of the classroom and be like, You need to care more. It's not gonna work. Like they have to feel it. And I would bring them to ⁓ you know, these addiction education rotations where they were in these 30-day inpatient rehabs and they're seeing all these people like fight every single day for just another day of sobriety. Like truly fight, you know? And they would share their stories with the students, and the students would walk away with like this huge perspective shift. I mean, it truly was remarkable. in a one eight hour day that you can change someone's perspective on something that's so highly controversial, okay, in the in the world of EMS, truly. ⁓ so once I stepped away from that, I almost felt like, ⁓ my gosh, how am I still going to give back into that regard? Like I still feel like there is a lot of other things that I need to do. And so ⁓ Ashley Powell had reached out to me for the Kentucky Rural Health Symposium down in Somerset. And ⁓ he'd asked if there was any topics I wanted to speak about. ⁓ and I think he was looking more in terms of like the critical care stuff that I was doing. And I'm like, well, I have to talk about this. And they had me on the last day on the last time slot. And you know, especially like I know, that's the spot that they don't expect anybody to stay at. speaker-0: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wrap it up. We're going home. speaker-1: Yeah. So I had like a a f a huge auditorium. That thing was scary looking, but I only had like fifteen people in the very back of like a dark room that like you can't even see that anybody's in there. And so to me it just felt like there was nobody there. And so I was like, this will be okay. And I I shared my story. And I remember walking off the stage, I'm like, man, I'm like ⁓ But I had all of these folks that especially folks that ⁓ you could tell they've been in this profession for a long time and they came up to me and what I found interesting was there are a lot more people like me than I realize. There are a lot more people that have struggled with the struggles that I had. And you're almost kind of giving them a voice too. And and that was pretty cool to see. So it was very ⁓ I was perceived well. with that. So I've just kept going. You know, you you feel you open up the vulnerability more, right? Like you I continue, I feel like to share more and more and more about myself, like to kind of really open the full closet door and let you see all the skeletons. because that's what that is that uncomfortability is what creates the the impact and the change. So it's for the people, man. speaker-0: yeah. ⁓ absolutely. Like the just like you were talking about, you know, ⁓ older older people coming up to you, connecting to you. I I have those same experiences. You know, when I go out and speak, well ⁓ right before the first one, ⁓ we both were at the Kentucky EMS expo last year. I bought me a ⁓ big fancy suit. Like I didn't know, you know, what public speaking was. I I was trying to be prepared and then somebody told me like you you ain't gotta wear that. So I didn't put it on. I just wore blue jeans and a t-shirt. And At it's at that point that I truly realized, like, you know, the more comfortable you are and the more you don't try to change who you are, which I'm not a suit and tie person, seems like people connect more because since then I've I've gone to places and I've worn shorts and a t shirt. With th this last one matter of fact, ⁓ on my feedback, I think it was an older person said, Who wears shorts and a t shirt to this kind of event? That was my only negative feedback. Hundreds of feedback comments, people saying, ⁓ this is the best thing ever and then that person, it really got under my skin, but I was like, I'm gonna next time I'm gonna wear shorter shorts and a T shirt. speaker-1: But put a tie on, you know. speaker-0: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But ⁓ it's just like ⁓ I don't know, ⁓ people coming up to you that are like twice my age that's been doing it for forty years and saying that I've connected with them. That's that's crazy to me. And that just reinforces that we're doing the right thing and it it it's been my understanding and ⁓ that the more you reveal about your personal life, just like you said, the more comfortable you are. People seem to be comfortable with you 'cause I have people come up to me after the fact and they're telling me their life story. I'm like, damn. speaker-1: Yeah, or or just It it connecting with like the people that come up to you post. And sometimes it takes them a bit. Sometimes, you know, you won't have like you'll have your rush of people that come up directly after you speak and stuff, and then you'll you'll carry on with your day. And then you'll get somebody that was kind of afraid to, and they'll catch you in the elevator or something. And you know, it kind of reminds them of their own family experience or their own patient experience or whatever it is, but they're They're being authentic when they show appreciation of what you're doing. Like the time that you're putting into it, the energy that you're putting into it, the vulnerability that you're exposing. It truly is a been a beneficial moment for everybody. And I have never walked away from a conference feeling like it was for nothing. speaker-0: Absolutely. Same, same, same, same, same. speaker-1: We'll keep being authentic. That guy just needs to stop. I heard a piece, I had a I had some feedback come back from NIMSY and one of it just said, you know, I just didn't connect with this. I didn't connect with this at all. And of course, I am like speaker-0: Okay. Yeah, it's hard not to take things personal. You have to look at the bigger picture. speaker-1: Yeah. You know, I the stuff that we're talking about, you know, no, not everybody's gonna connect with our message. Not everyone's gonna agree with the things that we have to say. I mean, we're not here to get a hundred percent approval from every single person that we're gonna meet. If we did, then we would never get up and stand up and do and talk about the things that we're gonna talk about. Like, no, we're standing up there and we're kind of exposing the things that people have not tried to talk about for a really long time. And you're gonna have that pushback there. Like, if If you're just looking for everybody to like you, this isn't the gig. speaker-0: Absolutely. You you talk a lot about effective domain. Can you explain that in normal firefighter terms? speaker-1: domain is you as a human how you communicate how you how your empathetic approach is coming across how how you're dealing with others all things emotional intelligence which has was that term ever even expressed into paramedic school when we were there no no we learned the material in the book to pass the test right And and to be providers. We learn the skills. We learn how to start IVs. We learn how to intubate. We learn how to, you know, set up an NG tube and all those pieces. ⁓ but then you get out there and it's like you get your first DOA. And now you have to talk to the families. I wasn't prepared. I wasn't prepared with how to communicate with that. It was very, very uncomfortable for me. ⁓ how to communicate with your partners. speaker-0: For that? Nope. speaker-1: You know, when I first got out there, everyone called me like the the works medic because I thought everybody had had everything. Okay. Everybody got all the medicines. Everybody got all the things. Everybody got a 12 lead all the time, every time. I didn't care. Okay. And I'm like, my poor, you know, is just circling. Like, cause I'm just like, I need this, this, this, this, this. and ⁓ you you have to learn how to be able to to communicate with not only like your your actual crews in order to have like effective efficiency and teamwork in the back of the truck, especially with like the high intensity calls, but like you have to be able to connect with your with your people. And that was something that for sure was lacking ⁓ within the program that I know that we were in. And so when I was able to become program director of that same program, it was kind of one of the first things. And I remember, you know, in in terms of being accredited, you have to meet three things. You have to show that you're meeting Cognitive domain, the psychomotor domain, and then the affective domain. And I'm like, okay, cool. What are we doing with this? And it was a singular piece of paper that we filled out at the very end of the program that was just like a yay or a nay, straight down through. And of course, it's one of those check line. And I'm like, what does that even do? Like we have these, I mean, we don't have these students for a really long time. I mean, it's a year. But that's still a year that we can evolve them in that domain. So whether that is per putting them in uncomfortable situations, having them talk through things, making sure that your scenarios are involving some piece of affect, you know, even if it's just like a lab of, you know, your patients really, really frightened of needles and you're getting ready to start an IB. How are you going to talk them through that? Or you have a scenario where the family member is just losing it on the side, and you have all these things that you gotta do, and you still have to deal with this family member, making sure that you're truly integrating all those components. And then again, using those clinical rotations as a way to for them to feel it. Like there was no other thing that we were checking off on Platinum Planner for the addiction education rotation other than the affective questions. And I'm I'm there. I'm like I took every single group with me and my role is to watch you. My role is to see how you are communicating, how you're interacting ⁓ with these patients. You know, like how how is the conversation going? You know, how did you feel going into it? How did you feel coming out of it? And to be able to kind of see those evolvements of the things that you're putting them in and then evaluating them when they come out of it to see. ⁓ I took you know, preceptor comments very seriously, nursing comments very seriously, because they're the ones actually witnessing them in a action, like actual live patient scenarios. You know, and it's truly a please don't just give all fives. Like please, like there are ways that we can grow ⁓ and adapt as as people in in the human to human business that we have. And especially as program directors and educators, like you have a role in that. And it can't just be a check line. On a piece of paper. speaker-0: Yeah, I I try to stress all the time to people when I'm precepting paramedics that being a paramedic is not just being a good clinician. ⁓ there's so many things you have to juggle when you get on scene, you have to have a good on scene presence. You have to good have a good on scene awareness of things going around you 'cause you're in charge of a lot of people there on that scene. And you know, you gotta be aware like, hey, this isn't right, you know, we gotta call PD or ⁓ you know, or I I've been on scenes before you get called for one sick person, then you're at the corner of your eye you see somebody else pass out or something else. So you're just there's so and and then not not just talking about that, like you have to be a good people person. Like you said, you have to be be able to talk to the family when they need talk to. And there's just ⁓ I have I stress that so many times because I've I've had a lot of good paramedic students that they they know all their dosages and they know their treatments and all that, but when it comes to talking to patients and families, it's just like You got a lot to do there 'cause that's half of the battle. speaker-1: And that's such a that is a ⁓ that is much harder to to fix that that piece. That piece is much, much harder to fix. I can teach you a component out of the book. I can teach you if cardiology is your your weak point, we can we can study that. if you're struggling with intubations, we can practice that. ⁓ but in terms of that that true emotional intelligence piece. That is something that is gonna involve a lot of self-reflection. It's gonna involve a lot of self awareness and it's gonna involve a lot of good feedback, right? From the people that really want to see you grow and improve as a person. speaker-0: well talking about frequent flyers, do you think frequent flyers sometimes get worse care simply because we know their address when dispatched speaker-1: ⁓ absolutely. And how many times have we had a frequent flyer with the same complaint actually come out to be true and we've disregarded it? speaker-0: Yep. I've I've seen it happen. You know, people get tunnel vision and they're like, ⁓ this is just like any of the other times and it it comes back to bite it comes comes back and bites speaker-1: Yeah. Yeah, because you're not you're not truly listening to the patient because you're you're automatically assuming that nothing is wrong. Yeah. Because they're they're just calling because they're calling. ⁓ you know, we had one I swear, had chest pain almost every other day. And I mean he lived out in the county. So like it took a hot minute to get out there. And I could even notice myself, like as soon as you'd hear that address come across, you're like And of course, chest pain. Again. speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: But you know, as a provider, it's like I still have to do all the things. I still have to do my assessment, I still have to do my 12 lead, I still have to do anything else that is warranted of me to take care of this chest pain call because it is a chest pain call. ⁓ and one of those times it actually ended up to be true. So that that is a a staunch lesson to to all those that are that are frequent. And then another, ⁓ You know, another frequent flyer that ⁓ you know, he had ⁓ he battled with alcoholism and and drug addiction. And, you know, I think we had all had him collectively, probably 10 times apiece per provider ⁓ in a short period of time. And I remember the day I went to see him, he had his actual suitcase packed. And I'm like, Where are you going? You know, he's like, I'm going to rehab today. And I'm like, Excellent. But he had he had actually put together like twenty four hours of where he hadn't had a drink and he tried to do that a little early because he was getting ready to go to rehab that day. Well, he started going into withdrawal and he started going into DTs and things like that. That's that's an actual significant medical issue. And ⁓ so, you know, we treated him, we got him up there and everyone's just like this guy again. ⁓ he thinks he's gonna do that and and they were ready to, you know They were gonna do what they needed to do, but they were ready with that AMA paperwork. They were like, here you go. It's ready to go. And I'm like, no, no. Like he's I can get we can work on some transportation to get him where he needs to because he's going to rehab. Like he's like, let's make sure he can he can make it. ⁓ because sometimes we we can be that link in the chain and we don't even realize it or we don't take the steps to do it. And so I remember I'm working with the case manager of the rehab, I'm working with the transporter. I'm working with the E D staff and I'm doing all of this after I've I'm done with the run to make sure that he gets where he needs to go. Cause I'm like I I believe in you, man. Like you you're gonna do this. ⁓ so it just y we can do a lot and and ⁓ I think if we just realize that they're not just a frequent flyer, like they're they're a person, they're a human being, and ⁓ we owe them that in the in the position that we that we have the privilege to have. speaker-0: ⁓ a hundred percent. ⁓ and last year at the EMS World Expo you presented ⁓ the Great Effect, unlocking the power of influence in education. ⁓ talk about that. Where where did the great effect come from? speaker-1: The great effect was ⁓ really going back to that affective domain in our program. So the audience intended for that session was the educator, was the program director of ways that you can integrate the affective domain directly into your program. So walking through the why, why is it important? It's important ⁓ for our patients, yes, but also us as a provider, because they also don't talk about compassion fatigue and they don't talk about burnout and they don't talk about All of the mental anguish that you're going to undoubtedly go through as a as a paramedic or an EMT. Doesn't get talked about. ⁓ so the affective domain is going to prepare you in ways to walk through those pieces. I will say, you know, I I've lived a life of trials and tribulations. And I've worked a lot through training, but through that training, you know, through things like AA or NA and step work and therapy and all of like I have dug so deep internally of ways to address issues so that way I can be, I can work through that. I'm not burying it down, I'm not shoving it down, I'm not taking a drink to make it go away. I'm actually working through the progress or working through the process in order to move through it. And that's important. So when you can kind of take those same elements, which, hey, I've expert in that stuff, right? When you can take those, you can take those processes and you can kind of intertwine them into a program, like you're you're building your providers up to be well-rounded providers where like they're gonna be able to process those hard days. They're gonna be able to process the cumulative amount of exposure where it's not just, I'm gonna continue to shove it down, I'm not gonna talk about it, I'm not gonna ask for help. And I'm just gonna go have a beer after work. ⁓ so that that the Great Affect really kind of focused in on all of those components of of ways that we can kind of prepare ⁓ provide our our students with that before they become providers out onto the street. speaker-0: I'm I'm gonna quote a gentleman that we both know ⁓ after he saw that ⁓ presentation. ⁓ Rob Lawrence. Rob Lawrence. I've I've I've ran into him. I feel like I've I've been hanging out with him this year more than my own family. I I I've I've ran into him across the country so many times. Like I'll be at a conference and he'll just pop up out of nowhere. That man is everywhere. But he he speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: After he saw that, he described it as the keynote he didn't know he needed. What was it like hearing someone describe your work like that? speaker-1: was powerful. ⁓ and I I caught him on an off chance. He ⁓ we did a down the escalator ⁓ for his ⁓ for his ⁓ prodigy and I remember when we come down the ⁓ when we come down the escalator I had kind of gave him a teaser of you know because in the great affect I shared my story but I shared it at the very end of why I care so much. ⁓ and At the end of the escalator, you know, I told him, like, well, I became a paramedic because a paramedic saved me. And I could see him immediately. He's like, What? What did you say? I said, You can find out more if you come to my session tomorrow at 11 o'clock upstairs in room 208. So I reeled him in, reeled him in. I got him in there and he's sitting in and into the middle of the audience and stuff. And, you know, again, I saved my story to like the last five minutes. I that that was the time that I shared it or whatever. And you can just see. Because the way I teed it up was ⁓ at the beginning I shared a story about why it matters in terms of the patient. And what I was actually sharing was my story, but I just left who it was out of it. And so at the very end I said, you know, at the beginning I told you a story. But what I didn't tell you was my the role that I played. And that role was as the patient. And you could just see everybody was like, What? And so it was a great cliffhanger, and you could just see Rob and he's like And it was just, it was, it was awesome because like that's what I mean. Like like the power of storytelling is so big, like you can truly like reach people on a such a deep level, like they're not gonna forget it. They're not gonna forget that story, they're not gonna forget what I say, and they're gonna go back and they're gonna they're gonna change something, maybe small and maybe large, whatever, but that's something that they're gonna remember. And if it's just simply my story to tell others, cool. I'll hear for you. speaker-0: Well one of my biggest pieces of advice is people want to branch out into speaking at these conferences and everything. Like, if you want to talk about something educational, cool. That's fine. But I feel like if you implement stories into it, that's really gonna grasp your audience. Cause I've been set up at vendor booths sometimes, like before I speak, ⁓ watching other speakers that have educational ⁓ and and people are just on their phones constantly and not paying attention. But when somebody starts telling their own story that something people can connect to they're locked in. And I would I would definitely say that it's ⁓ it it's crazy the difference. speaker-1: Yeah. And you can, and you'll get that feedback too. And I know you do too. Of they'll people will come up, they'll say, everybody was so like, nobody was on their phones. Everybody was completely connected to every they were hanging on every word you were saying and they were ready for the next line. And I'm like, that's what it's about. Like, I I want to keep your attention the whole time because you're there. I'm there to provide you this topic, this lecture, this, this, this session. And my goal is to keep you engaged. And to keep you coming out of of it just a little changed, whatever whatever that is. So to be able to do that on on this scale is is pretty awesome. And you know, as you know, as you start kind of going back, you're like, okay, what's next? What am I gonna build now next? What am I gonna talk about next? And to try to keep that same energy. Like when you start like, I feel like for both of us, we started like our first presentations were like a hit. They were good. Everybody loved them. So now it's like, how do we stay on top? speaker-0: Exactly. speaker-1: Need to deliver that over and over again. speaker-0: And I don't know about you, ⁓ my first couple ones, like ⁓ my wife will vouch for this. Like I'd be on the airplane, like ⁓ reading my book 'cause it's based on my book and then going over my PowerPoint and I would spend hours rehearsing. But now, you know, I think I'm sixteen presentations in. I've I've just got dialed in. I don't have to rehearse anymore. It's just ingrained in me. And that that takes a lot of stress off your plate, you know, when you can just go out there and recite it. ⁓ yeah. Because those first couple of times I was so stressed out, especially 'cause I wasn't used to public speaking. You go out there and all these people are watching you for an hour. It's like, holy crap. Yeah. speaker-1: I I can't lie, I they ⁓ they provided me propanol ⁓ to knock that fight or flight response down. So when I got up there it didn't feel like I was on the top of a roller coaster because that's how it felt when you look out into seas of people and you're like, ⁓ my god, what am I saying? We've gotten a little better. But yeah, like to be able to have your talk and to know that you know it inside and out and like you've rehearsed. I was at a point where anytime I got on the treadmill, I walked through the whole thing. I would talk through the whole thing. So that way like I'm doing something else while I'm talking. And so then it just kind of becomes that almost like that muscle memory. And then like right now we're approaching the end of the year. I know we're in conference season right now, but then next year will be a new one. And then it's like, I gotta start over. ⁓ my god. speaker-0: Yep. I I I want to talk about your ⁓ non profit because we both now are part of nonprofits that have similar missions. Let's let's talk about paramedic pathways. ⁓ why did you co found this? speaker-1: It really stemmed out of the work we were doing for the workforce committee. So the workforce committee's main goal was recruitment and retention. And the hard part about being a committee like that is you really can't do any sort of fundraiser or anything like that to gain funds. That's not you that's we're not allowed to do that. So, you know, as we're starting to kind of reimagine the paramedic program and to be able to curtail it to those that are working, that are have families that are trying to make ends meet. We're trying to meet them where they are. ⁓ so that way we can s continue to ⁓ educate accurately, efficiently, and keep the quality intact, then it's like, okay, now we have this awesome program. Now we have like all of these other things. How are they gonna pay for it? A lot of times, like unless you're part of a college base, which you and I both came out of out of a out of you know, a non-college entity for paramedic school. So I know you were lucky you got your service to pay for I had to get take a bank loan out to get mine with my mom co-signing it. ⁓ took me like five years to pay off. But ⁓ a lot of people still don't even have those opportunities. So like how are we gonna like how are we gonna provide them the funding? And so a couple of us from the workforce committee decided to kind of start branch off and start a non profit. And the goal was initially, of course, is paramedic, which it's still maintaining that way. ⁓ and just doing small things of like we have a trivia night coming up for ⁓ the Kentucky State Conference where we're just gonna which you you came to our first one, which was awesome. ⁓ but just a every single like every single cent goes to ⁓ a paramedic ⁓ you know, looking good at school, whether they're already in school and they still have that balance left or maybe they're getting ready to start. But our first scholarship went to a young lady out of Butler County. And she ⁓ is now graduated. She's a paramedic and she is like one of two paramedics in that whole county. So you know, like, man, you just you're absolutely you you're making a difference in order, not just for one person, but you just made a difference for the whole county. And that's that's a big deal. ⁓ so I just, you know, all these grants that are coming through, it's just, you know, like how can we be strategic and being able to kind of capitalize on some of the funds to make it go as as far as we can. ⁓ and so that's that's always the goal. But ⁓ as you know, it's not easy to start a nonprofit. I tried to s I try to s I try to pull you in early on. So I'm like, Cool if you're doing what we want to do, come but ⁓ it's not easy and it's a lot it is a lot of work. ⁓ but it's it's worth it to to see somebody kind of get their numbers. speaker-0: Yeah. ⁓ So much work. At the end of it. Yeah, I was I was talking to the gentleman I had on the podcast yesterday about it. you know, I what I started off was last year on my TikTok videos. I said, Hey, any money I generate from these ⁓ or donations from people, I'm gonna send people to EMT class. And ⁓ it kind of blew up and I was able to send three people just from TikTok videos and I was like I was like, This is crazy. And ⁓ I think I had eight hundred applications in that I read through myself, which sucked. Wow. speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: But after that I was like, okay, I've got a new nonprofit. That way ⁓ the US government doesn't eat up all my funds. so I reached out to people. I got a bunch of good board members that knew a lot about nonprofits because I knew nothing ⁓ the amount of work that goes into it and everything, like you said. ⁓ so we opened up another application process and we had over twelve hundred applications we had to read. And it was it was the same thing from the first time. All the stories. of people talking about like, you know, they might be ⁓ taking care of their grandparent and just ⁓ telling why they cannot financially afford it, but like also telling personal stories of why they wanted to get into it. You know, their their their parent might ⁓ passed away and that just seeing the ⁓ EMS they're working on their parent just that that's what they always want to do, but they can't because paramedic school, EMT school is expensive. And just like you said, if you don't have your department paying for it, I can't imagine. Yeah. I I would have had to take out alone too. speaker-1: No speaker-0: It's it's it's a lot of money. But but when you th read through these stories, like it reinforces you like ⁓ programs like these are needed. And ⁓ so yeah, ⁓ if y'all are listening, please go support paramedic pathways. ⁓ fundraising is the biggest part I found out. You know, we're about to send another student to class right now and that's pretty much all we could afford it on this budget, but we're gonna open up applications again and it's just so so important. we're already at an hour. This is ⁓ been the most easy going podcast I've ever done. ⁓ so before we get off here, I just want to do some rapid fire questions. Okay. End it. let's see here. Worst medical stuff, worst medic school subject. speaker-1: ⁓ pharmacology. speaker-0: Agreed. ⁓ drug calculations or cardiology? Which one you picking? Trauma or medical? Medical. Pediatric call or OB call? speaker-1: Cardiology, hands down. Terrible. ⁓ my God. ⁓ speaker-0: Well we won't say bad ones, just good ones, you know. Okay. Twenty four hour or twelve hour shift? Twenty four. Station dinner or gas station dinner? speaker-1: ⁓ pediatrics? Ooh, station dinner. speaker-0: New medic who's overly confident or veteran medic who's completely checked out. ⁓ Most overrated piece of EMS equipment. speaker-1: New. New medic all day. You Katie. speaker-0: Yeah. It's ⁓ covered in dust in our ambulance. I haven't seen it since class. speaker-1: Traction splint or the traction splint. Terrible. speaker-0: Yeah, that too. Yep. ⁓ let's see here. ⁓ who would have been more likely than to get kicked out of class? Me or you? speaker-1: Probably me. ⁓ speaker-0: I don't even hardly remember anything about class to be able to answer that. It was all a blur. It was so stressful. All right. ⁓ let's see here. I got one closing question. We started paramedic school together, having absolutely no idea where life was going to take us. We both had some pretty weird paths to get here. If you could walk back into the classroom, sit down beside the Liz who was just starting medic school and tell her one thing about the life that's waiting for her, what would you tell her? speaker-1: you're gonna make it. You're gonna make it. You're gonna, you're gonna not only you're not only gonna maintain your sobriety. ⁓ you're gonna go out there and you're gonna make change. You're gonna make real change. You're gonna make a difference for this profession across the state and across the country. And you just don't even realize it yet. Just you're gonna make it. speaker-0: Heck yeah. ⁓ well, thank you for being on. It's been a great episode. it it's been good reminiscing about class and bad 'cause there's a lot of bad memories in. but just just so the listeners know, I I haven't always been salty. I I used to be a very scared paramedic student. speaker-1: No muscle. speaker-0: Yeah, no mustache. Is there anything else you want to shout out? Paramedic Pathway? Do y'all have a website or ⁓ you wanna speak speaker-1: Ha ha ha. Paramedicpathways.org. ⁓ you can learn all about us there. And also ⁓ EMSKY.org. That is a one-stop shop for all things Kentucky EMS. If you have a question, if you want to get into EMS and you don't know how, go there. If you are a new director and you want to figure out how to create a budget, go there. If you are wanting to learn how to write a grant, go there. It is a one-stop shop, emsky.org. Go check it out. And you'll see a little video of Cody. Doing a little interview. ⁓ no. speaker-0: Yeah, I forgot about that. I might have to go check out that section on grant writing. That's something I gotta learn. speaker-1: ⁓ yeah, for sure. For sure. Yeah. W they again we're you know, those are just things that you are prepared. speaker-0: ⁓ yeah, absolutely. Well thanks for coming on. ⁓ thanks everybody for listening. ⁓ please go check out Liz if you're around at these conferences and she's speaking. Go see her. ⁓ she's great. ⁓ and I will see you all on the next episode. Thanks for listening.