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JAW-DROPPING DETAILS EMERGE IN IDAHO STUDENT MURDERS · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece. Finally, the probable cost AFFI
0:17
Speaker 1: David for the suspect in the brutal slayings of four
0:22
Speaker 1: beautiful young Idaho University students has been unsealed. And what
0:29
Speaker 1: a bobshell from DNA to sell phone records? It goes
0:34
Speaker 1: on and on. Police now believe and reveal that they
0:41
Speaker 1: say Brian Coburger stalked the four victims all the way
0:46
Speaker 1: back until June, watching them at odd hours, late in
0:52
Speaker 1: the night and early early in the morning hours very
0:55
Speaker 1: similar to the times the murders took place. I mean,
0:59
Speaker 1: it's great this ascribe stories. Thank you for being with
1:02
Speaker 1: us here at Fox Nation and series XE eleven. This
1:07
Speaker 1: probably cause affidavit has also spun out more questions than answers.
1:14
Speaker 1: For instance, take a listen to our friends at Keen five.
1:18
Speaker 1: The first thing coming out of this is that one
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Speaker 1: of the surviving roommates in that home tells investigators she
1:24
Speaker 1: was woken up by the sound of crying and saw
1:27
Speaker 1: a masked man dressed in black walk right by her.
1:31
Speaker 1: Another big takeaways that investigators say DNA was found on
1:35
Speaker 1: a knife sheath found at the crime scene. A small
1:39
Speaker 1: piece of DNA was found on there, and then DNA
1:42
Speaker 1: taken from Coburger's family home in Pennsylvania was matched to
1:45
Speaker 1: that knife sheath. They say with more than ninety nine
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Speaker 1: point nine percent accuracy ninety nine point nine nine nine
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Speaker 1: eight percent accuracy excluding all all other possibilities that DNA
2:03
Speaker 1: came from anyone other than the killer's biological father. Again,
2:11
Speaker 1: thank you for being with us here at Crime Stories.
2:13
Speaker 1: You've got an all star panel to make sense of
2:15
Speaker 1: what we are learning now from a bombshell document. But
2:20
Speaker 1: first I want to go to a very special guest
2:21
Speaker 1: joining us, Laura Ingle, Senior correspondent Fox News. You can
2:26
Speaker 1: find her on Twitter at Laura Ingle. Laura, thank you
2:29
Speaker 1: so much for joining us. What we were just playing
2:33
Speaker 1: from King five, really, let's the kind of a bag
2:38
Speaker 1: regarding one of the roommates, Dylan, one of the roommates
2:44
Speaker 1: that lived. Do you see the let me just say
2:51
Speaker 1: inconsistency in her statement, not that she's inconsistent, but it's
2:55
Speaker 1: inconsistency inconsistent with what we think we know, all right,
3:00
Speaker 1: because we've been led to believe that she and another
3:03
Speaker 1: roommate lived on the bottom floor with two roommates on
3:08
Speaker 1: the second floor on the third floor. But if she
3:13
Speaker 1: is on the bottom floor, Laura Ingle, then how did
3:16
Speaker 1: she see the just all in black, five titner, taller, bushey, eyebrows,
3:22
Speaker 1: face over nose and mouth athletic? How did she see
3:28
Speaker 1: him go out the sliding class door if she's on
3:29
Speaker 1: the bottom floor. You're right, I mean, this probable cause
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Speaker 1: Affidavid gives us these new chilling details of these ambush murders.
3:37
Speaker 1: I mean things that we answered a lot of questions
3:41
Speaker 1: that leaves a lot unanswered. Still, So the person identified
3:44
Speaker 1: in the probable cause Affidavid only identified as DM that
3:48
Speaker 1: we realize is one of the surviving roommates Dylan Morgenson
3:53
Speaker 1: described three times in that night. Remember, police originally told
3:58
Speaker 1: us that the two surviving roommates slept through it all,
4:01
Speaker 1: and you know, the nine one one call didn't come
4:03
Speaker 1: till just before noon that day that there was an
4:06
Speaker 1: unconscious person at the residence. But now we see that
4:12
Speaker 1: this surviving roommate came and caught or not contact, but
4:16
Speaker 1: saw the suspect in the house, but first heard a noise,
4:21
Speaker 1: thinking that it was maybe Kaylee playing with her dog,
4:24
Speaker 1: then heard what sounded like crying. She opened her door
4:28
Speaker 1: three times, and on that third time, she says that
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Speaker 1: she saw a suspect dressed head to toe and black,
4:35
Speaker 1: wearing a mask only revealing bushy eyebrows, walk right by
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Speaker 1: her and then exit through the kitchen to the sliding
4:42
Speaker 1: glass door and exit. That only makes sense if she
4:47
Speaker 1: came upstairs from the ground floor, which is where we
4:50
Speaker 1: heard she was sleeping, or there's another bedroom that we
4:54
Speaker 1: maybe didn't know about that she was on that second floor.
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Speaker 1: That's a huge question, is going along with if she
5:01
Speaker 1: encounters this person at between four and four thirty am,
5:05
Speaker 1: why a nine one one call was not made until
5:09
Speaker 1: nearly noon? But my question, Nancy, is this, remember the call,
5:13
Speaker 1: was there is an unconscious person? Did the other roommate
5:17
Speaker 1: did she pass out? Did she go into hiding? Did
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Speaker 1: she Was she in that frozen state of shock that
5:23
Speaker 1: she said that that's what she She stood there in
5:25
Speaker 1: shock when she saw the person. You can only imagine
5:27
Speaker 1: how terrifying that would have been. But why that time gap,
5:31
Speaker 1: That is one of the biggest takeaways of this probable cause, Affidavid,
5:36
Speaker 1: Why that call was not made? You're a hearing the
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Speaker 1: voice of Laura Ingles, Senior correspondent with the fox, and
5:42
Speaker 1: he's channel joining us. She has been all the ground
5:45
Speaker 1: from the get go on this case, Laura, if you would,
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Speaker 1: would you go through and to me right now? This
5:52
Speaker 1: is the main fly in the ointment. After hearing see
5:56
Speaker 1: hearing about seeing reading that probable cause affidavit, would you
6:02
Speaker 1: explain everything you know to this juncture about what the roommate,
6:09
Speaker 1: Dylan Morgenson said, and we learned this from probable cause,
6:12
Speaker 1: And remember there may be a lot more and there
6:15
Speaker 1: may be a very easy explanation about what we're talking about.
6:20
Speaker 1: To answer this question, was she sleeping on the second floor?
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Speaker 1: Was she somewhere other than the bottom floor? Why didn't
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Speaker 1: she call line one one immediately? Did the defendants see her?
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Speaker 1: There's no indication that he did. So many questions, but remember,
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Speaker 1: a probable cause affidavit is literally think of a skeleton.
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Speaker 1: What all it's missing? The eyes, the eyebrows, the skin,
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Speaker 1: the face, the hair, everything. It's a bare bones outline
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Speaker 1: for a judge, just enough evidence so the judge will
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Speaker 1: sign and arrest warrant. Okay, they don't give the judge
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Speaker 1: the whole file that explains everything. They give a bare
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Speaker 1: bones affidavit. They get that warrant and bam they go
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Speaker 1: make the arrest. But for everybody else, I want to
7:10
Speaker 1: hear Laura Ingle explain what we know right now about
7:15
Speaker 1: d M. That's how she's referred to in the PC
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Speaker 1: affidavit still in Morgeson. What exactly did she say? Laura
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Speaker 1: ingles she told police and one other nugget here that
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Speaker 1: I didn't know either, and I don't think anybody did.
7:30
Speaker 1: Is that Zanna Kernodle received a door dash order at
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Speaker 1: the residence at approximately four a m. That is new
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Speaker 1: we didn't and that she was awake according to her
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Speaker 1: phone record at approximately four twelve because her phone, Zanna Kernodle,
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Speaker 1: who lived on the second floor, would likely awake using
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Speaker 1: the TikTok app at approximately four twelve. Okay, who, Laura Angle?
7:56
Speaker 1: You got? I mean jake it from the fire hydrant again?
7:58
Speaker 1: Too much, she fasked, because I want to cross reference something.
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Speaker 1: His car, a white Elantra, was spotted by other surveillance
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Speaker 1: video in the King Road area between three twenty nine
8:15
Speaker 1: and four twenty videos from the King Road area that
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Speaker 1: night or is it four to four twenty five? Actually
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Speaker 1: I think it's both. So what we're hearing right now
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Speaker 1: about the door dash and the tiktoks fit in perfectly
8:32
Speaker 1: with the surveillance video from the King Road area. You
8:35
Speaker 1: just have to lay on one layer after the next
8:39
Speaker 1: to build this case. Okay, back to Laura Ingle, all right,
8:43
Speaker 1: slow it down, lady, tell me again everything we know
8:46
Speaker 1: about roommate d M. So, when we go to page
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Speaker 1: four of the probable cause AUF of David, DM stated
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Speaker 1: that she originally went to sleep in her bedroom on
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Speaker 1: the southeast side of this second floor. DM stated she
9:02
Speaker 1: woke up at approximately four am by what she stated
9:06
Speaker 1: sounded like then call this playing with her dog in
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Speaker 1: one of the upstairs bedroom, which was located on the
9:14
Speaker 1: third floor. That is what I'm referencing. That is the
9:17
Speaker 1: first time I have seen or heard that her bedroom
9:21
Speaker 1: was on the second floor. Or wait a minute, could
9:24
Speaker 1: she had just been sleeping there on a sofa? Sure,
9:27
Speaker 1: But it says in the Affidavid he stated she originally
9:32
Speaker 1: went to sleep in her bedroom on the southeast side
9:36
Speaker 1: of the second floor. That's what it says on page
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Speaker 1: four at the top. DM stated she was awoken at
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Speaker 1: four am. She thought she heard Kaylee playing with her
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Speaker 1: dog upstairs. On the third floor. A short time later,
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Speaker 1: DM said she heard who she thought was gonsolv to
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Speaker 1: say something to the effect of quote, there's someone here.
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Speaker 1: A review of the record obtained from a forensic download
10:02
Speaker 1: of then a Chronodal's phone showed this also could have
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Speaker 1: been Chronodal, as her cellular phone indicated she was likely
10:09
Speaker 1: awake and using the TikTok app at approximately four twelve,
10:14
Speaker 1: So I'm not sure if they're saying that that voice
10:17
Speaker 1: could have been there's someone here coming from her phone. Nonetheless,
10:21
Speaker 1: that is what she heard, and then she stayed to
10:24
Speaker 1: police that she looked out of her bedroom but did
10:27
Speaker 1: not see anything when she heard the comment about someone
10:30
Speaker 1: being in the house. She stated she opened her door
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Speaker 1: for a second time when she heard what she thought
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Speaker 1: was crying coming from Chronodal's room. She said she heard
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Speaker 1: a male voice saying something to the effect of quote,
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Speaker 1: it's okay, I'm going to help you end quote. Then,
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Speaker 1: at approximately four seventeen, a security camera located on King Road,
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Speaker 1: which is immediately to the northwest of eleven twelve King Road,
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Speaker 1: picked up a distorted audio of what sounded like voices
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Speaker 1: of a whimper, voices or a whimper followed by a
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Speaker 1: loud sud. The dog can be heard barking numerous time,
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Speaker 1: starting at four seventeen am, that security camera which is
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Speaker 1: next door less than fifty feet from the west wall
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Speaker 1: of Pernodal's bedroom, and then, finally the most chilling part.
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Speaker 1: DM stated she opened her door a third time after
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Speaker 1: she heard the crying and saw a figure clad in
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Speaker 1: black clothing and a mask that covered the person's mouth
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Speaker 1: and nose walking towards her. Described the figure as about
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Speaker 1: five ten or taller male, not very muscular, but athletically built,
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Speaker 1: with bushy eyebrows. The mail walked past DM as she
11:45
Speaker 1: stood in a quote frozen shock phase. The mail walked
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Speaker 1: toward the backsliding glass door. She then locked herself in
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Speaker 1: her room after seeing the mail. She did not recognize
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Speaker 1: the mail, and this investigators to believe the murderer left
12:03
Speaker 1: the scene. You are hearing Laura Ingle, senior correspondent with
12:07
Speaker 1: Fox and News Channel, breaking down what we know about
12:10
Speaker 1: d M's testimony. What we know she saw, what she heard,
12:16
Speaker 1: what she experienced the night her roommates were murdered. A
12:26
Speaker 1: Fox Nation exclusive and international pop star stripped of human rights?
12:30
Speaker 1: How does that happen easier than you think. Join us
12:34
Speaker 1: for a deep dive into Britney Spears's conservatorship Trapped, streaming
12:38
Speaker 1: now on Fox Nation Crime Stories with Nancy Grace straight
12:51
Speaker 1: out to cherylton McCollum joining us found her and director
12:55
Speaker 1: of the Coal Case Research Institute. You can find her
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Speaker 1: at coal Case Crimes Org. Cheryl, what do you make
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Speaker 1: of it? It sounds like to me that the murders
13:05
Speaker 1: started on the third floor, which is really curious to
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Speaker 1: me because if you've got door dash coming at four,
13:11
Speaker 1: she's on TikTok at four twelve on the second floor.
13:15
Speaker 1: Use proper names so we all know she who go ahead,
13:19
Speaker 1: start over, please okay? Well again, if you've got Dylan
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Speaker 1: hearing dogs barking here in the crime having this strange
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Speaker 1: person talking to her between four twelve and four seventeen,
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Speaker 1: and then you've got the car that we all need
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Speaker 1: to look for, the white Alentre four twenty leaving at
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Speaker 1: a high rate of speed, it sounds to me like
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Speaker 1: Dylan at four o'clock heard something on the third floor
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Speaker 1: that she thought was Kaylee playing with her dog. But again,
13:52
Speaker 1: whatever was occurring on the second floor between four and
13:55
Speaker 1: four twelve to me, is critical. So it sounds like
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Speaker 1: this started on the third floor with a straight out
14:00
Speaker 1: to Joe Scott Morgan joining US Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State
14:03
Speaker 1: University and star of Body backs at Joe Scott Morgan,
14:08
Speaker 1: what do you make of Cheryl's interpretation of the timeline.
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Speaker 1: There's one piece of evidence here that I think gives
14:14
Speaker 1: an indication to this third floor. It started on the
14:16
Speaker 1: third floor. Yes, it started on the third floor, and
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Speaker 1: the indication of that is a single piece of evidence,
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Speaker 1: which is, in fact, the sheath that was found adjacent,
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Speaker 1: according to the affidavit, to Megan's body in the bed
14:30
Speaker 1: right there, and the fact that the knife was unsheathed
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Speaker 1: in that area and left behind gives an indication that
14:39
Speaker 1: that's where it started. At least to me, that's a
14:41
Speaker 1: place to begin. And then after it was done, these
14:46
Speaker 1: homicides were committed on the third floor, the progression goes
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Speaker 1: down to the second floor where Ethan and Zenoor. Guys,
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Speaker 1: I'm just trying to take in everything that happened to
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Speaker 1: these young people that night. Think about it. My twins
15:03
Speaker 1: just turned fifteen, these victims just a few years older
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Speaker 1: than them. In their beds no idea, what was to
15:17
Speaker 1: befall them? And now we hear Brian Coburger had been
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Speaker 1: around them on their perimeter, over and over and over,
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Speaker 1: watching them, stalking them in the last hours. Coburger in court.
15:38
Speaker 1: Take us our cut two four or five King five.
15:40
Speaker 1: Brian Coburger was in court. He was in an orange jumpsuit,
15:44
Speaker 1: but was not in any type of handcuffs or shackles
15:47
Speaker 1: that we could see. He just said a few brief
15:50
Speaker 1: words responding to judge's questions. And here's what came out
15:53
Speaker 1: of this morning's court appearance. He was formally charged with
15:56
Speaker 1: four counts of murder one count of burglary. But the
15:59
Speaker 1: big tape kaway is that, due to Idaho law, once
16:02
Speaker 1: he makes that appearance in court, the probable cause documents
16:05
Speaker 1: are then made public. That's essentially a paper that's written
16:08
Speaker 1: by law enforcement laying out their case as to why
16:12
Speaker 1: they believe this is their man in this murder investigation.
16:15
Speaker 1: Straight out to a special guest joining us in addition
16:18
Speaker 1: to Laura Ingele from Fox News, CC Moore is with
16:22
Speaker 1: us and to the rest of the panel. I'm getting
16:24
Speaker 1: too as quickly as I can, but please jump in
16:27
Speaker 1: when you have a thought. CC Moore is, well, she's brilliant.
16:32
Speaker 1: She's a chief genetic genealogist at Piramond Nano Labs. CC,
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Speaker 1: I want you to address this the first time I
16:41
Speaker 1: use a statistic like this in court with DNA trying
16:44
Speaker 1: to prove the case. It's, you know, an astronomical of
16:48
Speaker 1: fantastical number. But the number is and this is what
16:53
Speaker 1: we know, and anybody on the panel can backtrack on
16:55
Speaker 1: this after CC answers, we know that that team that
17:02
Speaker 1: was watching Coburger as he criss crossed the country to
17:06
Speaker 1: go back home twenty five hundred miles from Idaho to
17:09
Speaker 1: the Poconos with his dad in the launcher in question,
17:12
Speaker 1: they had two tasks. One to keep eyes on Coburger
17:17
Speaker 1: so the moment that arrest warrant issued, they could effect
17:20
Speaker 1: an arrest when the time was right. This is what
17:24
Speaker 1: was called an high highly risk arrest. It's called a
17:31
Speaker 1: dynamic entry. When the person you're going to arrest could
17:35
Speaker 1: really do anything, you gotta be ready keep eyes on
17:38
Speaker 1: him and to secure DNA. Okay, And this is how
17:42
Speaker 1: they did it. We learned from the affidavit. They watched
17:47
Speaker 1: Brian Coburger at his parents Pennsylvania home. They saw him
17:51
Speaker 1: leave the home. Did you know this? Jack? And said,
17:54
Speaker 1: they see him leave the home around four am in
17:58
Speaker 1: the dark of the night. Take out the trash. Now,
18:02
Speaker 1: I check out the trash this morning at five am.
18:04
Speaker 1: But that's just me. But here's the kicker. I didn't
18:06
Speaker 1: put it in the neighbor's guard in their dumpster. He did.
18:10
Speaker 1: He took the family trash to the neighbors and put
18:14
Speaker 1: the trash in their trash can. He also put some
18:17
Speaker 1: in their own trash can later. So why would he
18:19
Speaker 1: do that? Well, of course they went right over there
18:21
Speaker 1: and got it out. And guess what. Ccmore, it proves
18:27
Speaker 1: that the DNA on the snap button of that knife hilt,
18:33
Speaker 1: the DNA found there, the male DNA compared to the
18:40
Speaker 1: trash from the Coburger family home, all the male population
18:46
Speaker 1: of the world's excluded to ninety nine point nine nine
18:51
Speaker 1: nine eight percent. Could you explain that, CC, Yeah, so
18:57
Speaker 1: these are numbers, as you know, that we see in court.
19:00
Speaker 1: This is court admissible evidence, but it is also what
19:04
Speaker 1: we see in traditional paternity tests. So anytime someone is
19:08
Speaker 1: taking a paternity test, they're doing the exact same type
19:11
Speaker 1: of comparison. That they did here, and those are the
19:14
Speaker 1: numbers that are court admissible in those cases as well
19:17
Speaker 1: when you're trying to establish paternity. But that is not
19:21
Speaker 1: the final step. Once they have gotten that DNA to
19:25
Speaker 1: that crime lab realized, Okay, this is a male DNA,
19:29
Speaker 1: but it's not our suspect. This is the father of
19:32
Speaker 1: our suspect. The next step would be after they get
19:36
Speaker 1: that warrant for arrest and they get Brian and custody,
19:40
Speaker 1: they want to get his DNA directly from him. That
19:44
Speaker 1: is going to be the final step of the DNA
19:47
Speaker 1: testing and evidence, and once they get that exact match
19:52
Speaker 1: from Brian, they're going to have numbers similar to what
19:55
Speaker 1: they quoted for that paternity test certainty, and then that
20:00
Speaker 1: be set aside. So we're seeing multiple steps of the
20:03
Speaker 1: DNA testing here, getting closer and closer, and the noose
20:07
Speaker 1: is tightening. Cecmore, you're the brilliant genetic genealogist. There's got
20:11
Speaker 1: to be a better way to say it than I
20:12
Speaker 1: said it, because I had to really link the circuitous
20:17
Speaker 1: sentence to try to explain this stat what I'm trying
20:21
Speaker 1: to say, and I would have to work on this
20:24
Speaker 1: before I went to a Jerry Jack. Absolutely, I'm trying
20:27
Speaker 1: to say that it's ninety nine point nine to one
20:34
Speaker 1: that this DNA comes from anybody but the killer's bio dad.
20:41
Speaker 1: What's an easy way to say that. You're never going
20:44
Speaker 1: to hear them say one hundred percent. That's just not
20:47
Speaker 1: how the scientists present this type of evidence. They're saying
20:51
Speaker 1: he cannot be excluded as the father or the parent
20:56
Speaker 1: of the suspect of the person who left the DNA
20:59
Speaker 1: behind mind at the crime scene. And so these numbers
21:03
Speaker 1: are astronomical, Like you said, it is greater than the
21:08
Speaker 1: number of people in the whole world many times over.
21:12
Speaker 1: And so it's just their way of explaining the level
21:16
Speaker 1: of confidence that they have in this. But it is
21:19
Speaker 1: not going to be what it will be used in
21:22
Speaker 1: court eventually. That's all they needed to get this arrest done.
21:27
Speaker 1: And they may have more DNA evidence that they just
21:31
Speaker 1: didn't list in the affidavit because it wasn't necessary. As
21:34
Speaker 1: you said, they're just going to lay out what they
21:37
Speaker 1: need to get that next step without showing all their cards.
21:41
Speaker 1: Immediately joining me also, Brian, I Fit's given VP operations
21:46
Speaker 1: USPA nation Wide Security. Brian, I want you to hear
21:50
Speaker 1: something upst the creepy factor, if that's even possible. Take
21:54
Speaker 1: a listen our cut two four seven Sebastian Robertson. The
21:58
Speaker 1: suspect's phone was used at least a dozen a dozen
22:02
Speaker 1: times near the suspects home ahead of the murders, and notably,
22:06
Speaker 1: investigators say the phone was turned off at the time
22:10
Speaker 1: of the killings. It's obviously an emotional time for the
22:13
Speaker 1: family scene the defendant for the first time. This is
22:17
Speaker 1: the beginning of the criminal justice system and the family
22:20
Speaker 1: will be here for the long haul. The suspects phone
22:23
Speaker 1: was used at least and I emphasize at least twelve
22:28
Speaker 1: times near the victims home, beginning back in June up
22:36
Speaker 1: until November thirteen, the day of the murders. Can you
22:41
Speaker 1: just imagine that Fitzgibbons, Well, I'll tell you, Nancy, it's
22:45
Speaker 1: similar to him leaving behind the sheaths that data exhaust
22:51
Speaker 1: from these twelve trips that he took to the murder
22:55
Speaker 1: site previously that they were able to team through that
22:59
Speaker 1: historical site location information is going to be a key
23:04
Speaker 1: part of this case, and it's important for everybody to
23:07
Speaker 1: know that that cellular cellular analysis survey team the FBI
23:11
Speaker 1: had that that data that they have is very precise,
23:15
Speaker 1: very accurate. That look back period where they're able to
23:20
Speaker 1: see Coburger's phone in the vicinity of the King King
23:25
Speaker 1: Road residence is going to be tremendously impactful as this
23:29
Speaker 1: thing moves forward. Joining me in addition to Laura Ingle,
23:32
Speaker 1: Sheryl McCollum, Joe Scott, Brian Fitzgibbons joining me right now,
23:37
Speaker 1: Chris and Cec More. Chris mcdonnah is with US director
23:40
Speaker 1: coal Case Foundation, former homicide detective. I found them on
23:43
Speaker 1: a YouTube channel, the interview room. Chris mcdonnah I want
23:47
Speaker 1: to go to you because you've carefully examined all around
23:53
Speaker 1: the victims King Road home. What do you make of
23:57
Speaker 1: what Laura Ingle is telling us about the possibility at
24:01
Speaker 1: roommate DM Dylan Morgenson was on the second floor, and
24:06
Speaker 1: what do you make of the defendant being around their parameter,
24:11
Speaker 1: their perimeter twelve times at very odd times of the
24:16
Speaker 1: day and night. And significantly Jack is that he has
24:22
Speaker 1: a cell phone on all the time, except he turns
24:26
Speaker 1: it off a couple of hours at the time of
24:27
Speaker 1: the murder or puts it on airplane mode. I love
24:30
Speaker 1: it when they do that jump in. Well, a couple
24:33
Speaker 1: of things jump out Nancy right away is his undergraduate
24:38
Speaker 1: degree is in psychology and cloud based forensics, Joe, and
24:43
Speaker 1: he was signing out for an internship with the local
24:46
Speaker 1: PD to teach him about how to avoid you, how
24:50
Speaker 1: criminals avoid detection in that. Something else that is really
24:57
Speaker 1: bothering me is the fact that the police should now identified.
25:00
Speaker 1: This homicide goes down between four am and four twenty
25:04
Speaker 1: five am. The fact that these twelve contacts, which we
25:09
Speaker 1: would call preincident behaviors, occur through the cell phone analysis
25:15
Speaker 1: is exactly what we've been talking about here on this
25:17
Speaker 1: panel and your show, Nancy. Is this guy spent a
25:21
Speaker 1: lot of time taking a look at his target set.
25:25
Speaker 1: And that brings me then to Dylan. She this little
25:30
Speaker 1: this child. There's one part of the affidavit that just
25:35
Speaker 1: stuck out to me where the officer says she stood
25:41
Speaker 1: in a frozen shock phase. What that told me writing
25:47
Speaker 1: many affidavits through my career is this is just the
25:51
Speaker 1: tip of the iceberg, and we're going to get those
25:53
Speaker 1: explanations as to why there was a delay, as well
25:58
Speaker 1: as the hideous statement by the suspect that she hears
26:04
Speaker 1: it's okay, I'm going to help you. I did the
26:07
Speaker 1: little boy in southern California in nineteen ninety eight, Matthew
26:10
Speaker 1: checking in the bathroom, the suspect stood behind him and says,
26:14
Speaker 1: you know me, I'm here to kill you. I got
26:19
Speaker 1: chills when I read this statement from this witness, because
26:24
Speaker 1: I can only imagine the shop, the fear, the terror
26:28
Speaker 1: in her mind, and then later to find out there's
26:33
Speaker 1: a footprint at her bedroom door from this suspect. So
26:38
Speaker 1: did he come back in after she closed the door
26:41
Speaker 1: to finish the deal or get the sheet that he
26:44
Speaker 1: left behind on the third floor. Something you said, Chris mcdonna,
26:47
Speaker 1: I think needs to be emphasized even more so. Everyone
26:52
Speaker 1: is ready to put a linch mob on the roommatee
26:57
Speaker 1: DM Dylan Morgenson for hiding in her bedroom. She's a child.
27:04
Speaker 1: I think many of these victims were very sheltered. This
27:08
Speaker 1: was the first time they had lived away from home.
27:11
Speaker 1: And when she says, I was in a frozen shock state.
27:17
Speaker 1: You referred to a case I know very well, the
27:20
Speaker 1: case of a little boy in California named Matthew Checky.
27:23
Speaker 1: As Zra call He was about nine years old and
27:26
Speaker 1: he was at a family picnic reunion sort of deal
27:32
Speaker 1: on the ocean, and he wanted to go to the
27:35
Speaker 1: bathroom and his aunt said, I'll go, and they went
27:39
Speaker 1: to the public bathroom. Everything was fine, and the aunt
27:44
Speaker 1: stood outside the door, and in those few moments a
27:48
Speaker 1: guy goes in and slashes Matthew's neck. Just never had
27:55
Speaker 1: met him, didn't know anything about him, just went in
27:58
Speaker 1: and murdered him. Matthew checky straight out to Dr Bethany
28:04
Speaker 1: Marshall's psychoanaist joining us out of Beverly Hills at doctor
28:07
Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall dot com Doctor Bethany. Everyone is screaming the
28:12
Speaker 1: PC doesn't show the motive. Well, it doesn't have to.
28:16
Speaker 1: Number one and number two, that is not the state's
28:19
Speaker 1: burden to figure out, Wow, why would you do such
28:22
Speaker 1: a thing. We could talk about that at the water cooler.
28:25
Speaker 1: The state duty is to get the riot person in
28:28
Speaker 1: the right jurisdiction and try them according to the constitution
28:32
Speaker 1: and get a true verdict. That is a state's duty.
28:35
Speaker 1: They're not shrinks. But while we're on it, what do
28:40
Speaker 1: you think. I'm beginning to wonder if this you know
28:44
Speaker 1: he would do these odd experiments questionnaires and this was
28:48
Speaker 1: just another one of his bizarre experiments with human guinea pigs.
28:54
Speaker 1: Or was he so immersed in the world of murder
28:57
Speaker 1: that it consumed him. I think you just explain the
29:00
Speaker 1: whole motivation right there. He was immersed in the world
29:03
Speaker 1: of murder. But let me roll out one simple fact here.
29:07
Speaker 1: There are eight factors that are associated with serial killers
29:12
Speaker 1: when you look at their history, you know, childhood abuse
29:14
Speaker 1: and neglect, torturing animals. I could go on and on,
29:19
Speaker 1: but one factor is voyeurism. Almost all serial killers stalk
29:25
Speaker 1: their victims, and they are voyeurs, meaning they're like peeping
29:29
Speaker 1: toms and they don't just look and you know, scroll
29:32
Speaker 1: TikTok and Instagram. They look and masturbate Nancy. Let's just
29:37
Speaker 1: be honest here. They are in a sexual frenzy while
29:41
Speaker 1: they are stalking their victims. That is it right there.
29:44
Speaker 1: So the crime began last June. It wasn't just when
29:48
Speaker 1: he was plunging a knife into his victims. That was
29:50
Speaker 1: just the I don't know, the cherry on the ice
29:53
Speaker 1: cream Sunday right there. That the crime started in June
29:57
Speaker 1: when he selected these or victims victims selection is so
30:03
Speaker 1: important to serial killers that that's where the excitement is, watching, stalking, looking, masturbating, peeping,
30:11
Speaker 1: learning everything about the victims, inserting themselves into their crime.
30:14
Speaker 1: And it was during this time that he put out
30:17
Speaker 1: these strange, odd questionnaires, you know, wondering, you know, asking
30:21
Speaker 1: even a prison population. You know, what were you thinking before,
30:25
Speaker 1: during after the crime? How did you engage in victim selection?
30:29
Speaker 1: Because he was engaging in victim selection. So what we
30:35
Speaker 1: might find semen at the crime. I think what we're
30:39
Speaker 1: going to find is all the sexual activity and motivation
30:43
Speaker 1: occurred before the crime, and then killing them was just
30:48
Speaker 1: like the final coup de gras. That was the end
30:50
Speaker 1: of it. So this is a sad thing about this
30:53
Speaker 1: case is the crime went on for months and months
30:55
Speaker 1: and months and there was no way to detect it,
30:58
Speaker 1: and there was no way to have the tected it.
31:00
Speaker 1: We're just putting in the putting the pieces together after
31:03
Speaker 1: the fact. And just a quick clement about the poor
31:07
Speaker 1: roommate who saw him with the you know, the bushy
31:12
Speaker 1: eyebrows and the athletic build. Yes, she's just a child.
31:15
Speaker 1: She had no idea, she didn't know what we know now.
31:20
Speaker 1: She had no way to put the pieces together. She's
31:22
Speaker 1: just a little girl who shut her door and was
31:24
Speaker 1: used to people coming in and out of that house
31:28
Speaker 1: because remember this is a college town, you know, so
31:31
Speaker 1: kids come in all hours of the day or night
31:34
Speaker 1: partying and even just sitting up on their beds and talking.
31:37
Speaker 1: And yes, she was scared, but it was four in
31:40
Speaker 1: the morning. Of course she locked the door and went
31:42
Speaker 1: to bed. That is no surprise. Time stories with Nancy
31:58
Speaker 1: Grace with me high profile lawyer out of Jacksonville, former
32:06
Speaker 1: FBI agent Dale Carson at Dale carsonal Law dot com. Dale,
32:10
Speaker 1: I want you to take a listen to Judge Meghan Marshall,
32:14
Speaker 1: the lat of County Magistrate and our cut two fifty
32:18
Speaker 1: a count two alleges that you committed the feeling offense
32:21
Speaker 1: of murder in the first degree. It alleges that the
32:24
Speaker 1: defense Bryan C. Coeberger Honor about November of thirteenth, twenty
32:28
Speaker 1: twenty two and way Talk founding State of Idahoe, did
32:32
Speaker 1: will flee, unlawflead, deliberately, with premeditation and with malice aforethought,
32:37
Speaker 1: kill and murder Madison Mogan a human being by stabbing
32:40
Speaker 1: Madison Mogan from which she died in violation of Idaho
32:44
Speaker 1: eighteen four zero zero O one four zero zero two,
32:49
Speaker 1: four zero zero three, and four zero zero four. The
32:53
Speaker 1: maximum penalty for this offense, if you were deplete guilty
32:56
Speaker 1: or be found guilty, is debt or imprisonment for life.
33:00
Speaker 1: Do you understand yes to Dela Carson. I don't know
33:05
Speaker 1: if you've ever worked to any death penalty cases, but
33:08
Speaker 1: the law is very clear based on case precedent. It's
33:11
Speaker 1: not in the Constitution, but it is a result of
33:16
Speaker 1: the six Amendment right to counsel. When you have a
33:19
Speaker 1: death penalty case and you are selecting your defense team,
33:27
Speaker 1: the defense team, if the state is appointing lawyers, has
33:31
Speaker 1: to be made up of at least one, if not more,
33:34
Speaker 1: death penalty qualified lawyers. Explain those lawyers are especially trained
33:41
Speaker 1: to deal with these kinds of cases and they have
33:45
Speaker 1: very thorough training. It takes probably a year and a
33:48
Speaker 1: half of additional training in order to represent people charged
33:52
Speaker 1: with a capital offense and the offense that could end
33:54
Speaker 1: up in the death penalty, and these cases take quite
33:58
Speaker 1: a while to pursue and prosecute, and the defense team
34:02
Speaker 1: also has the same requirement. So this is something If
34:06
Speaker 1: he in fact goes to trial and he's not given
34:08
Speaker 1: a deal to plead the life instead of the death penalty,
34:12
Speaker 1: then the result could well be that the trial will
34:15
Speaker 1: take a number of years to process. I don't know
34:19
Speaker 1: if it's going to take a number of years, but
34:20
Speaker 1: I can easily see it taking a year. Remember this
34:25
Speaker 1: is Idaho, not California or New York. This case is
34:30
Speaker 1: going to go to trial. COVID is not a threat
34:34
Speaker 1: at this juncture anyway to striking a jury. COVID has
34:38
Speaker 1: put the skids on jury selection for years now. But
34:42
Speaker 1: we're in a different phase. Gerars are being called to
34:46
Speaker 1: the courthouse. We're not on hold because of COVID. Another thing.
34:51
Speaker 1: Take a listen to our cut two five to one. Again,
34:54
Speaker 1: this is Judge Marshall speaking and mister Kolberger. Would you
34:58
Speaker 1: like to represent yourself highral lawyer or see you if
35:01
Speaker 1: you qualify for court appointing counsel. I have a court
35:05
Speaker 1: appointed council or has reviewed your application for attorney at
35:10
Speaker 1: public defense. I do find that you are indigent and
35:13
Speaker 1: do qualify for court appointing council. I will appoint as
35:17
Speaker 1: Taylor to recommend you in this case. So you may
35:20
Speaker 1: wonder where all your tax dollars go to people like
35:22
Speaker 1: Brian Coburger. Are we're going to pay for his death
35:25
Speaker 1: penalty defense team. Now, before he even left Pennsylvania, a
35:30
Speaker 1: defense lawyer was in place for him, and it is
35:33
Speaker 1: defense attorney and Taylor. Now what del Carson said is
35:38
Speaker 1: absolutely correct. To achieve further death penalty qualifications to defend
35:44
Speaker 1: or prosecute a case like that. The most common way
35:48
Speaker 1: of getting that training is to sit a second or
35:50
Speaker 1: third chair when another lawyer that's qualified tries a DP
35:56
Speaker 1: case death penalty case. I'm pretty sure if you could
36:00
Speaker 1: I get said that the mode of death will be
36:02
Speaker 1: the needle in Idaho death by lethal injection. Straight back
36:06
Speaker 1: out to Laura Ingle, senior correspondent joining us from Foxnez.
36:10
Speaker 1: Laura again, thank you for being with us. Laura. What
36:15
Speaker 1: do you believe will happen next? Well, you know, his
36:19
Speaker 1: bail was denied in that court hearing, and then he'll
36:22
Speaker 1: make his next appearance on the twelfth of this month,
36:26
Speaker 1: So that is the next time we expect him back
36:28
Speaker 1: in court. And as we continue to pour over this
36:32
Speaker 1: advadavit that not only the probable cause affidavit when you
36:35
Speaker 1: go back and you look at that Indiana State Police
36:38
Speaker 1: bodycam footage of when he was stopped, and we've seen it.
36:44
Speaker 1: We can't we can't help but study it because we
36:47
Speaker 1: hear him and we see him. And if you look
36:50
Speaker 1: closely at one of those traffic stops by the Indiana
36:54
Speaker 1: State Police as he was traveling with his father from
36:58
Speaker 1: the state of Washington to Pennsylvana where we were camped
37:01
Speaker 1: out outside of the jail where he was held, you
37:04
Speaker 1: can't help but notice there is a mark on his
37:07
Speaker 1: right wrist. And we've looked at that closely. It looks fresh.
37:12
Speaker 1: So I don't know what that means, but you know
37:15
Speaker 1: that is another clue his demeanor, his voice. That is
37:19
Speaker 1: something that will be, of course, heavily analyzed by law
37:23
Speaker 1: enforcement and by all of us. Just Goot Morgan enjoining me,
37:26
Speaker 1: Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, Just Scott. We also learned
37:30
Speaker 1: that the defendant Coburger thoroughly clean his car on multiple occasions.
37:37
Speaker 1: He was watched doing it. You think you got rid
37:40
Speaker 1: of all the evidence? If so, why and if not why? No,
37:43
Speaker 1: absolutely not, There's no way. I don't care how much
37:46
Speaker 1: he thinks he cleaned it. He did not do a
37:48
Speaker 1: sufficient job compared to what they're doing to it in
37:51
Speaker 1: the garage right now at probably the FBI and in
37:55
Speaker 1: Pennsylvania at one of their evidence collection sites. They're taking
38:00
Speaker 1: this car apart. Literally, they're taking the seats out, carpet, headliner, everything,
38:06
Speaker 1: and they're going in with every possible agent that they
38:09
Speaker 1: have at their disposal. And I don't mean FBI agents.
38:12
Speaker 1: I'm talking about chemicals that they can a place that
38:15
Speaker 1: we're talking about luminol, maybe blue star. They're also going
38:19
Speaker 1: through here with probably evidence vacuums as well, which goes
38:24
Speaker 1: down to a different strata and pull things up that
38:26
Speaker 1: this guy would have missed. Andre ucc Moore joining US
38:30
Speaker 1: chief genetic genealogists at Paramont and the NLS was the
38:34
Speaker 1: best way. I don't saying it's going to work. But
38:37
Speaker 1: what do you expect to be the attack by the
38:40
Speaker 1: defense on the DNA. Well, you know they're not going
38:44
Speaker 1: to use anything that was found from investigative genetic genealogy.
38:48
Speaker 1: If that is still in play, I think it is.
38:50
Speaker 1: I think they just left it out of the affidavit
38:53
Speaker 1: because it was just a lead generator. It's not evidence.
38:56
Speaker 1: So they're going to focus on those astronomical numbers that
39:00
Speaker 1: you mentioned. They're going to say this DNA on this
39:06
Speaker 1: sheath or whatever else they may have in their evidence
39:09
Speaker 1: from DNA is from this person in the stats will
39:15
Speaker 1: be something like one in three hundred trillion chants, and
39:20
Speaker 1: then maybe they'll find some of the victims DNA and
39:22
Speaker 1: all that work that they are doing on his car.
39:25
Speaker 1: I was saying, how is the defense going to attack
39:28
Speaker 1: the DNA analysis? Well, the defense is going to have
39:31
Speaker 1: a difficult time with all of this evidence adding up.
39:35
Speaker 1: Come on, Sacy, put it out there. They're gonna have
39:37
Speaker 1: to pull an oja. They're gonna have to come up
39:40
Speaker 1: with some crazy theory that the blood was planted, that
39:44
Speaker 1: it was tampered with, that it has been somehow compromise.
39:47
Speaker 1: That's the only way you can't find it with one
39:49
Speaker 1: in three hundred trillion that would have been placed there.
39:54
Speaker 1: There we go. See, didn't take long. You know what,
39:57
Speaker 1: CC more I should have asked you that question, because
40:00
Speaker 1: in order to catch a environment, you got to think
40:02
Speaker 1: like a varmint, and you just don't think like a
40:04
Speaker 1: defense lawyer. All right, let's talk about with a type
40:08
Speaker 1: of DNA on that sheet in a nutshell nutshell that
40:12
Speaker 1: DNA is likely to be touched DNA a few skin cells,
40:16
Speaker 1: and they're going to say it could have been transferred,
40:19
Speaker 1: it could have been there for a different reason, and
40:23
Speaker 1: it doesn't necessarily place him at the crime scene. You know,
40:26
Speaker 1: say say, I only hope that's what they argue. They're
40:30
Speaker 1: going to say this with a party house and kids
40:32
Speaker 1: were coming in and out all the time, and Coburger
40:35
Speaker 1: was likely a guest that or just some random person
40:38
Speaker 1: they came into party with the kids, and that's when
40:41
Speaker 1: the DNA was left on a knife. Okay, See, I
40:44
Speaker 1: hope that's what they argue. Brian Fitzgivens with us A
40:47
Speaker 1: VP of Operations at USPA Nationwide Security. Brian, I'm just
40:53
Speaker 1: trying to you know, if you want to win, you
40:57
Speaker 1: don't just put your case up. You lay awake at
41:00
Speaker 1: night and you think, what are they going to do?
41:03
Speaker 1: How are they going to try to attack me? And
41:05
Speaker 1: you go through each witness and each piece of evidence
41:09
Speaker 1: with a fine toothcoming you figure out what's my problem?
41:13
Speaker 1: Where is my crack? How can I shoot them down
41:17
Speaker 1: before they can kill me? Hey, I don't know if
41:19
Speaker 1: you remember, do you remember Reagan came up with the
41:22
Speaker 1: Star Wars defense, how we're going to shoot down missiles
41:25
Speaker 1: that are coming toward the US, and everybody at the
41:28
Speaker 1: time thought, wow, impossible, it is possible, and this is
41:32
Speaker 1: how you want a trial. You shoot them down before
41:35
Speaker 1: they can torpedo you. What is the defense going to do, Brian,
41:38
Speaker 1: I think one of the pieces that they're going to
41:41
Speaker 1: attack is a cell phone data. Not all cell phone
41:45
Speaker 1: data is created equal. I think in this case, you know,
41:49
Speaker 1: there was definitely a flex in the affidavit showing that
41:52
Speaker 1: FBI team involved here in the precise locations they were
41:56
Speaker 1: able to crab from Coburger in that historic data. But
42:01
Speaker 1: that's a that's a definite that they will attack that.
42:05
Speaker 1: In the past. It's certainly in some high profile cases
42:07
Speaker 1: in the past cell phone data can be misleading. Um,
42:11
Speaker 1: So I think that there's definitely going to be an
42:14
Speaker 1: attack on that. Oh yeah, you're right, Brian Fitzki. Is
42:18
Speaker 1: there going to be all over that cell phone data?
42:20
Speaker 1: We wait as this case unfalls. Goodbye friend,