Latest / Masculine Containment / 32 - Why Men React Instead of Lead: The Power of Masculine Containment (with Patrick Michael Hoffman)

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32 - Why Men React Instead of Lead: The Power of Masculine Containment (with Patrick Michael Hoffman) · Masculine Containment

• 0:00
  Welcome to the Masculine Containment Podcast.
• 0:02
  It is my sincere honor and privilege to have with me today Patrick Michael Hoffman, who was one of the members in our second Brotherhood Container.
• 0:11
  And I'm excited for you to hear his story, get some insights.
• 0:14
  I think you're going to find a lot of this relatable.
• 0:16
  Patrick, thank you so much for being here, brother.
• 0:19
  Thank you for having me, Alex.
• 0:20
  I appreciate it.
• 0:22
  Absolutely.
• 0:23
  It's my pleasure, brother.
• 0:25
  So let's jump right in.
• 0:28
  Why don't you share with us what was going on for you before you joined the brotherhood?
• 0:33
  What was life like back then?
• 0:35
  Well, before I joined the Brotherhood, I had a lot of confusion.
• 0:39
  Well, a decent amount, that's for sure.
• 0:41
  Decent amount of confusion, internal noise that I wasn't quite, had enough clarity on.
• 0:47
  It was kind of confusing.
• 0:49
  And that made me just feel confused and not enough.
• 0:53
  And definitely, I had a lot more reactivity at that point, too, as well.
• 0:59
  It was like, it was almost as if, like,
• 1:03
  you know, we, we came together purposefully, you know, there's no, there are no coincidences.
• 1:09
  And like, and because it was like, I needed clarity on this.
• 1:13
  I'm like, what am I, what am I feeling?
• 1:14
  Like I had these different beliefs, these things that are rhetoric, this noise.
• 1:19
  I'm like, but I know it's not true.
• 1:20
  So I'm like trying to discern.
• 1:22
  I'm like, ah, it's confusing.
• 1:24
  So it was definitely confusing.
• 1:26
  And, um, um,
• 1:29
  I would say the biggest thing, I'm just glancing at my notes, is that just like...
• 1:38
  I knew I needed the support, obviously, because I'm like, huh.
• 1:41
  And I looked all around trying to search and all around reading stuff and looking at other people's podcasts, you know, listening and reading and whatnot.
• 1:48
  And I could never really find anything like this at all.
• 1:51
  And the closest thing I could find to anything even similar to this was a quote that Jocko Willink says, which is discipline equals freedom.
• 2:02
  Yeah.
• 2:03
  That's the only thing that I've been kind of like, you know, riding with this discipline, but I'm like, what is this noise?
• 2:07
  What am I, what's going on here?
• 2:08
  So very confusing.
• 2:11
  Also too,
• 2:14
  on top of that, nine years ago now, I had a near-death experience.
• 2:18
  So I was already relearning like everything of who I was and whatnot because I lost my short-term memory.
• 2:25
  So 30 seconds later, I'm forgetting like, what am I doing right here?
• 2:29
  What's going on?
• 2:29
  So I consistently have to like reflect to myself to like to see who I am so that I'm like, I'm not staying stuck in these ways of being and being trapping myself and like,
• 2:40
  moving away from that.
• 2:42
  So it was a lot of stuff.
• 2:44
  I mean, I never grew up with a real father.
• 2:46
  I've never met him.
• 2:47
  So I never had that masculine, I never had that masculine direction or guidance or true love in that way.
• 2:54
  Like I never had anything like that.
• 2:56
  So a lot of confusion, a lot of different things I had to learn and percept.
• 3:00
  And yeah, that's kind of where I was for the most part before.
• 3:05
  So what wasn't working in your life and relationships specifically, Patrick, when you think back to that time?
• 3:12
  What wasn't working was...
• 3:16
  I would say it was just, it was, it was, it was my clarity being clear and, you know, in my expression.
• 3:22
  And so it would kind of, it would kind of make me freeze up sometimes like, kind of like, and, and what I was telling you yesterday on your post on Facebook is that it was, it would make me like abandon myself.
• 3:35
  Like, Oh, I don't want to, and like it freeze up and stuff and like, not, not like, not want to like think about these thoughts that are coming to mind and everything.
• 3:47
  What did abandoning yourself look like, Patrick?
• 3:51
  abandoning myself looked like well definitely then it was more of a freezing and not listening to myself and just kind of like and it's like i'm not really there anymore it's like i'm just frozen and not not receptive um not communicating like i'm just stuck and like i'm like in fear it's like a fear like oh like i'm someone's seeing me someone's talking to me like oh and like and and all a lot of this kind of rhetoric would kind of go in my mind to like to project this stuff outwards or
• 4:21
  to project it to like make me more frozen we'll say were you in a relationship then patrick i wasn't i i am in a relationship now yes you're still in the same relationship
• 4:34
  Well, the relationship we, well, yeah, the one I'm referring to now, yes.
• 4:40
  It's been like a little over, close to a year, about a year or so.
• 4:46
  And now, what I was referring to the post yesterday was like 10 years ago, that relationship.
• 4:50
  Got it.
• 4:51
  Got it.
• 4:51
  Okay.
• 4:52
  So tell us about the relationship that you're in now.
• 4:54
  How was that going before the brotherhood?
• 4:58
  Well, before the brotherhood, it was going well, going well in a sense of like, you know, we were there for the most part for each other.
• 5:04
  Yeah.
• 5:06
  But there was times where like when we did drop in and kind of speak to each other, that was like confusing.
• 5:12
  Like I didn't have, like I wasn't sure like, you know, some of these thoughts and some of this rhetoric that come to mind and whatnot.
• 5:17
  I'm like, I'm like, oh, I'm like, and at times I definitely did, you know, spill my energy and kind of spit out some stuff.
• 5:24
  And then like, it wasn't long, maybe minutes before I'm like, oh, why did I say that?
• 5:29
  Where did that even come from?
• 5:30
  I'm like, oh, man.
• 5:31
  And so that definitely happened a bunch of times.
• 5:34
  I mean, a good amount of times where it was like real close, probably once or twice.
• 5:42
  It like almost ruined the relationship where she's just she's just expressing her emotional where she's at or whatever and wanting the safety, the safety of everything, being more safe.
• 5:53
  in our relationship, me being the man, and then I'm like spewing out this whatever or that or whatever.
• 5:59
  She doesn't feel safe at all and doesn't even help whatsoever.
• 6:03
  So those were the kind of some of the times in this relationship.
• 6:09
  Obviously, in past relationships before this, before even my near-death experience, because really I've been a real one since now, actually, since then, 10 years ago or more.
• 6:20
  I mean, that was just, I was...
• 6:22
  so uncontained i was just like everything that came to mind i'm just blabbering i'm saying whatever and like i'm right i'm right you don't know you're saying whatever like it was it was yeah it was a lot of just confusion and uh all over the place and just very ungrounded is what i like to call it um yeah that's kind of where it was yeah
• 6:46
  So in a lot of relationships, there's this pattern, you know, I share it all the time.
• 6:50
  You've heard me say it of like trigger, escalation, rupture, withdraw, and then repair.
• 6:54
  Was that present for you?
• 6:57
  Before my past relationship?
• 6:59
  Absolutely.
• 7:00
  It was like...
• 7:01
  Yeah, well, there was a lot of like just that, you know, like, oh, she says something, maybe she wanted some type of safety or clarity or something like that.
• 7:08
  And I'm like exploding like, oh, I'm whatever.
• 7:12
  I'm right.
• 7:12
  I'm this.
• 7:12
  It's like this.
• 7:13
  I don't know why you're saying that or whatever.
• 7:15
  Like just totally flying off the hinge.
• 7:18
  And in a sense, I mean, not all the time, but it definitely did happen and it didn't help anything.
• 7:24
  Yeah.
• 7:25
  So tell us about in this current relationship, you just said there was a couple times where she would say something and you would react.
• 7:32
  And, you know, I think as men, we've all been there.
• 7:34
  I've been there, certainly.
• 7:36
  And there was a couple times where it almost ended the relationship.
• 7:39
  Tell us about what that felt like for you, Patrick.
• 7:42
  Oh, it felt very just very uncomfortable.
• 7:47
  Very just like just.
• 7:50
  uncomfortable like fearful um like who is i felt like i felt like i was like almost being controlled by some something else it was like because it wasn't like me in a sense it was like reactivity and i'm like where is this coming from who's who wants me to say this and speak this and like and so it was a very disconnected feeling uh very nervous nervous fearful just all over um i
• 8:15
  I mean, and then the thought of stepping into just kind of like reflecting it.
• 8:18
  Well, stepping into like, oh, if I did lose her in that sense, like that just creates so much, so much feeling of pain and distraught and like, like just, and then grief and just so much hurt.
• 8:32
  So much hurt in that.
• 8:34
  Definitely.
• 8:36
  Tell us about that feeling of like what what I'm hearing is like pain and grief and anger and frustration.
• 8:43
  But oftentimes, you know, we think it's with the other person, but we're reflecting that back on ourselves.
• 8:48
  What was that like when you felt it for you?
• 8:52
  When I felt it for me?
• 8:54
  Well, it's it's it's it's.
• 8:58
  It's.
• 9:00
  First and foremost, it's definitely to have like that mirrored reflection to see yourself look in the mirror is kind of what you're speaking out there.
• 9:08
  It's like you want to turn and look away.
• 9:10
  You don't want to you don't want to accept any of that.
• 9:12
  You don't want anything to do with it.
• 9:13
  So it's it's a lot of vulnerability.
• 9:15
  It's a lot of courage to step in and actually like to see how you're being to see like, no, this actually isn't from her.
• 9:22
  It's not her.
• 9:23
  It's actually me and my reactivity and my own, my own emotional distraught, creating this, this tension within me.
• 9:30
  And, and that, that takes the process of like understanding and reflecting and like to be able to fully accept yourself and love yourself for who you are.
• 9:38
  And it's through that love and acceptance that you can actually stop fighting it and try to stop like all the righteousness or any of that.
• 9:45
  And like just come down from your pedestal, you know, and from pride and just, you know, actually, you know, we're equal here and it's all good.
• 9:53
  And like, see like that.
• 9:56
  the beliefs that you have, the definitions, the perceptions you had.
• 10:01
  You know, and if you want to, really don't have to be, you can kind of deep dive and learn, which I did, which I learned that wasn't something I needed to do, but deep dove and seen like, we're at, we're at,
• 10:11
  where I gained these beliefs and these perceptions from, um, a lot from like my early day, early childhood days, my stepfather, he was a very shameful, shameful dude.
• 10:20
  And like, we didn't do anything like father son stuff at all.
• 10:24
  Um, and he would beat me, call me names and stuff, not a good guy at all.
• 10:28
  So that kind of came, that kind of made me feel that unworthiness feeling and whatnot.
• 10:33
  So like, then like,
• 10:35
  It made me like have to prove myself like, oh, I'm not a fool.
• 10:37
  I'm not unworthy.
• 10:38
  I'm like, whatever.
• 10:39
  So, so that would like, that would create reaction.
• 10:42
  So that uncomfortability would create reaction to anything on the outside of me.
• 10:48
  Man, you've done a lot of work, Patrick.
• 10:49
  I can feel it.
• 10:51
  So you said we connected at kind of exactly the right time.
• 10:55
  Can you tell us what brought you to the brotherhood?
• 10:57
  Yeah.
• 10:58
  Well, excuse me.
• 11:01
  Yeah, man, I was just, like I was saying in the beginning there, just kind of confused on, I did a lot of research and reading.
• 11:09
  I got hundreds of books, but I only read probably, you know, 20, 30.
• 11:14
  But reading and stuff, trying to discern, like, what I'm feeling, what I'm thinking, like, who am I and whatnot.
• 11:20
  And, like, which is kind of what I've been doing since my motorcycle wreck, trying to figure out, like, who am I?
• 11:25
  Who is this guy?
• 11:25
  Yeah.
• 11:26
  And, uh, and, and so, and so, uh, um, so what was your question again?
• 11:37
  It was what brought you to the brotherhood?
• 11:39
  Yeah.
• 11:40
  I'm like getting in this, but, uh, what brought me, it was like the confusion, exactly the confusion and wanting to need clarity and needing like a mentor, needing someone that's been through this because everything I was reading and seeing everywhere, I'm like, this is just creating more confusion within me.
• 11:54
  I'm like, I'm not getting any real.
• 11:55
  clarity here and like and so then like i commented on one of your posts and and then you you got back to me uh through messenger or whatnot and started connecting and then i was just like oh and you were talking about setting up this group and stuff like that and i was like oh dude for sure i'm all about this and then i'm like you know i didn't really know but like i knew that i needed something so i stepped into it and then you know and then you started calling masculine containment everything and and just
• 12:20
  And just stepping into it, I mean, I guess I don't want to go any further, but, but yeah, that's kind of how it all.
• 12:26
  Yeah, no, you're, you're good to, you're good to explain it.
• 12:29
  So, um, did you have any hesitations when you first started moving towards being in this brotherhood and learning masculine containment?
• 12:40
  Hesitations?
• 12:42
  I mean, maybe.
• 12:43
  Maybe.
• 12:45
  Well, I say I would definitely have hesitations for sure, but it's something that I've been doing since my motorcycle rack was like having awareness and reflecting on myself and seeing who I am and what I believe.
• 12:58
  And a lot of me does believe like, oh, the righteousness and I'm right.
• 13:03
  And whatever these perceptions.
• 13:04
  And it's like, it's like,
• 13:06
  you don't know what you're talking about though.
• 13:07
  Like, and so a lot of it was moving through that and just stepping into it, like vulnerable and like, Oh, I don't know, man.
• 13:13
  I don't know what this is.
• 13:15
  Like, but I'm going to, I'm going to do this.
• 13:16
  I'm going to step into it.
• 13:17
  Like, all right, man, here we go.
• 13:19
  Like, so there was definitely nervousness and whatnot, but like, you know, what they've said before I've heard is the only way out is through.
• 13:27
  So the law of through.
• 13:30
  Yeah.
• 13:31
  Right.
• 13:32
  Stepping into it, man.
• 13:33
  Woo.
• 13:34
  It's one of those things we talk about in the brotherhood all the time.
• 13:38
  So when you first joined, what were your expectations, Patrick?
• 13:45
  Well, expectations.
• 13:48
  I guess.
• 13:50
  I guess.
• 13:52
  Part of me, it wasn't like my full exactly, but part of me definitely expected like, oh, I'm going to find the answers.
• 14:00
  I'm going to get the answers and this and that and whatnot.
• 14:02
  Like I'm going to get clarity.
• 14:04
  And like, that's what part of me wanted.
• 14:06
  But from everything I've read and been through and done and leadership courses and stuff, I'm like, you know, I don't know, man.
• 14:14
  I don't know.
• 14:14
  Like I can't like think that I know what I'm going to step into and how it's going to be.
• 14:18
  Like let's just go into this and like, whew.
• 14:21
  And just see what it's going to be like, see what people say and how it is and everything.
• 14:26
  So I just, you know, try to stay open with it and just not like think I know what it's going to be.
• 14:31
  But yeah, but my intentions weren't expecting to, oh, I'm going to heal.
• 14:36
  I'm going to take care of this.
• 14:37
  I'm going to be good.
• 14:37
  I'm going to be right.
• 14:38
  Like, I'm going to feel, yeah.
• 14:41
  So let's talk about actually being in the brotherhood, Patrick.
• 14:45
  So you joined.
• 14:47
  I'm pretty sure you were on all, if not almost all the calls.
• 14:52
  What did you actually start doing differently?
• 14:55
  Excuse me.
• 14:57
  Well, I was on every call.
• 14:59
  And what I started doing differently was, I would say just,
• 15:04
  especially in the calls with everyone being like willing to be vulnerable and having the courage to kind of show themselves and, and speak their truth, even if they're uncomfortable, it's like that, seeing that and being around that courage and being around that uncomfortability, it made me feel like, Oh, you know, yeah, I'm uncomfortable too.
• 15:22
  And, you know, and stuff, but like, it made me like,
• 15:25
  able to like come out of my shell and speak more and express more and then and in that expressing more and speaking more truth of how i feel i got beautiful divine reflections right back to me to reflect back to me and give me you know the the reflection of what they're seeing what they're hearing and like speaking to me and it gave me clarity i'm like oh yeah you're right i didn't really kind of think of it that way like oh okay so it was such a captivating beautiful experience really was
• 15:54
  Man, I love that, Patrick.
• 15:56
  What was hard about it at first?
• 15:59
  Hard would be kind of what I was saying there in the beginning, like stepping out more and like speaking more of like my vulnerability and stuff that makes me anxious and stuff that I'm like, like, I don't know, does anyone else feel this way or not?
• 16:12
  And then like hearing other people said what they were dealing with and whatnot.
• 16:16
  I was like, oh, people.
• 16:18
  other gentlemen definitely deal with this.
• 16:19
  Like, I'm not the only one like, okay.
• 16:21
  Like, and so it felt a lot more inclusive, you know, and connected and felt like felt okay to share.
• 16:27
  And in that definitely, I got like beautiful reflections back to show me that like, you know, they care too.
• 16:33
  And like, it's not, you're not alone and felt that very included.
• 16:37
  And it was very, yeah, loved it.
• 16:40
  Yeah, I think for us as men, a lot of the times when things aren't going well in our lives, we feel like we are the only ones and we're alone.
• 16:47
  When you got into the brotherhood and you heard other men's stories that were similar to yours, what did that do for you, Patrick?
• 16:55
  oh wow for one it made me again yeah feel like i'm not like alone i'm not doing this trying to do this this by myself solo or whatever like like i felt more included i felt more like actually like the the the the i don't want to get all spiritual here esoteric but like spiritual and esoteric do it all right well i just felt i felt the oneness the oneness of creation you know as above so below uh
• 17:23
  as within, so without, I mean, there's many expressions, but, um, I felt the oneness, inclusiveness and like, I didn't feel so alone and feel so like, so trapped, you know, I was, I was able to kind of like open the door and kind of be more, let myself be seen, felt and heard.
• 17:39
  And like that, that helped me be like more, just more grounded in myself and the truth of who I am and my authenticity.
• 17:46
  And that just, that just, that just feels good.
• 17:49
  And it makes you feel like you can do anything.
• 17:51
  And like, you're like, why have I been not doing this?
• 17:52
  And like, start doing that and start doing this.
• 17:54
  And like, um, but, uh, yeah, no, it was very, very, very inclusive feeling.
• 18:01
  Very genuine, very joyful, very like, uh, freeing as in like letting go of stuff that no longer serves me like that I thought did.
• 18:12
  Um.
• 18:16
  It's so good.
• 18:17
  A lot.
• 18:19
  How do you handle situations now after you've been through the brotherhood process that used to trigger you?
• 18:27
  I handle them now like with way more like of a just kind of like pause.
• 18:39
  If I get like any type of triggering reaction, anything like that that tries to like spring me, then for one, I'm like, it's like.
• 18:47
  you know, pause for a couple seconds or so.
• 18:49
  Like, and it's happened many times in my current relationship.
• 18:52
  Well, a few times in the beginning where like, she was like, couldn't read me.
• 18:58
  And was like, she would reflect that to me.
• 18:59
  It was like, oh, I can't read you.
• 19:01
  I don't know what you're thinking.
• 19:02
  You know, like, because I'm not like reacting and being all emotional and stuff.
• 19:05
  I'm like, being like, let me just gather myself here.
• 19:09
  Yeah.
• 19:10
  And then I would be like, I would see like, what's to the clarity, what it's actually there.
• 19:15
  And then I would respond like what I want to respond with instead of being like emotionally distraught and being reactive.
• 19:22
  And so it gave me a lot more clarity and, and just, um, appreciation for like who I am and like, um, and just stepping into it with courage, um, um, um, um, um, um, um,
• 19:43
  how has learning to pause and not react and not escalate changed your relationship?
• 19:51
  How has it changed my relationship?
• 19:52
  Um,
• 19:53
  Um, well, for one, starting with the relationship within myself, uh, it, it changed the relationship within myself to know like, uh, you know, that what, what I, what I want to say or the thought that comes to mind or whatever is springing forth isn't truth.
• 20:12
  It's not truth.
• 20:13
  And I don't need to be like, oh, I need to express this quickly or like I'm going to lose it or.
• 20:17
  And so I got I got away from that reactivity, which is something that I've been like profoundly very reactive a lot of my life.
• 20:25
  So.
• 20:27
  Being and being less reactive allows me to have more like have more like.
• 20:33
  autonomy has laws allows me to have more just like understanding of who what i'm feeling like the truth behind what i'm feeling not like this oh i need to speak this and run away and whatever and just try to avoid no like it allows me to feel what i'm feeling and be more grounded and speak more truth and who i am and what i'm seeing and
• 20:56
  in life and like in, in myself too.
• 20:59
  And which is, which is where I am in a relationship or with the world.
• 21:03
  So I'm not like, you know, um, just being so distraught and triggered and emotionally just all over the place, uh, not contained essentially.
• 21:13
  Oh, that's,
• 21:17
  what it's brought, you know, and like I said, uh, as above, so below, but the biggest one here is as within, so without, so it's allowed, allows me to have a different perspective on myself and the world so that I'm not like, I'm not fighting, I'm not fighting the world or myself trying to swim upstream, thinking I'm going to get somewhere.
• 21:37
  I realized that there's no progress being that being made there.
• 21:40
  And I'm like, uh, no, dude, let's just,
• 21:43
  relax, turn around and go with the flow, you know, and feel the goodness.
• 21:47
  So that's kind of a nutshell.
• 21:51
  Patrick, what's your partner's name?
• 21:53
  Allison.
• 21:55
  So how has this process changed your relationship day to day with Allison?
• 22:03
  Excuse me.
• 22:04
  Sorry.
• 22:04
  I still got a throat thing going on because of this head injury from my motorcycle wreck.
• 22:08
  Anyways.
• 22:09
  No worries, brother.
• 22:10
  Yeah.
• 22:11
  um, just, so how has changed our relationship is that like, uh, I mean, for one, like I was, like I was saying there, I'm not as reactive.
• 22:20
  I'm not spilling energy all over the place and just being like ungrounded and being like, I mean, how's a woman going to be able to feel like trust, feel comfortable around that.
• 22:30
  I feel the safety around like just the, you know, ungrounded, the, the whatnot.
• 22:37
  And, um, so I'm,
• 22:39
  it's changed our relationship in the way that she like feels more comfortable.
• 22:43
  She, she came to me like, um, I mean, it was after we started, I know it was definitely some point in, into the container.
• 22:51
  Uh, she came to me and felt like, uh, she was like telling me how she, she, she, uh,
• 22:59
  She didn't... Well, no, that was before.
• 23:01
  So then...
• 23:02
  So in the container, she came to me and told me how, like, before she was not feeling safe.
• 23:08
  She was feeling, like, a little all over with my energy, so to speak.
• 23:12
  And she feels way more safety now.
• 23:14
  She feels like I'm there.
• 23:15
  I'm actually communicating with her.
• 23:17
  She sees...
• 23:18
  I see how she...
• 23:20
  Her emotions, what she's dealing with.
• 23:21
  I'm not, like, being reactive.
• 23:22
  I'm not, like, being, like, emotional.
• 23:25
  Maybe she's emotional about something.
• 23:27
  And I'm not, like...
• 23:28
  being like oh let me raise my emotion let me try oh meet her and that or whatever i don't do that you know i'm more like i understand um give her more um uh what's the word uh clarity but uh
• 23:43
  more like of a reflection, basically, a reflection on where she, what I'm seeing, I'm there for her to actually like support her, like authentically, instead of like try to match her energy and thinking like that's, that's not where it was before, thinking like, oh yeah, like that is, that is bad.
• 23:58
  And like try to like,
• 23:59
  yeah like no that just makes her try to go higher than you try to go higher then it just ruptures and then like you're trying to come back later and be like apologize and then that doesn't actually get anywhere it just causes more pain and frustration so yeah so it's definitely things have gotten a lot more clear um and we've just came together more i think i was telling you too actually um we came together excuse me we came together and um
• 24:28
  talked about I have no children she has two twin boys but she wanted to have more children and I was still like I was kind of like before I was kind of nervous with myself because like I'm like I don't know if like I feel like it's ungrounded feeling or whatever I didn't feel as contained and was like I don't know about that or whatnot I mean I didn't express to her like that but I pretty much told her like in a sense like yeah let me you know let me think on this more and whatnot and uh it allowed me to like
• 24:56
  center myself more and like now we're all about having a child you know she went and got out yeah she went and got out she had a iud and for like many years went and got got it out and everything and like so now we're definitely trying you know we're all about it and i'm like excited i'm like man like raising a child this is gonna be i can't wait to show them like what i've learned and like teach them stuff like so it's like oh i'm making tingles now like um yeah
• 25:22
  So, I mean, drastic change.
• 25:24
  I mean, going from like the uncomfortable, ungrounded, and then like to being like feeling safe and want to have a child together and raise a child together and whatnot.
• 25:32
  I mean, drastic change.
• 25:35
  got a question I haven't asked anybody else, Patrick.
• 25:38
  You know, I know a little bit of your background and I know nine years ago you suffered a really serious head injury and kind of had to relearn life.
• 25:45
  And that created anxiety and frustration and all kinds of, you know, complications in your life.
• 25:51
  Did going through the Brotherhood Society process help with any of that, the fallout, the symptoms from that?
• 26:06
  I would say, uh, I would say, yeah.
• 26:08
  And definitely in a sense of like, you know, I mean, because going through like the, the, the traumatic, traumatic brain injury, cause I had a dent near my skull.
• 26:15
  That was the biggest thing.
• 26:17
  Get alone the neck and back and ribs.
• 26:19
  But, uh,
• 26:20
  So, so yeah, maybe give me more clarity and like, because I would hear these, these thoughts and whatnot, like coming from a belief that I wasn't aware of and like these thoughts coming out and like whatever.
• 26:32
  And like, I didn't have as much discernment or clarity.
• 26:35
  So I'm like, Oh, what do I believe?
• 26:36
  I believe this, but I'm hearing this and stuff.
• 26:39
  So like, so I'm like, Oh.
• 26:40
  Should I follow that or whatever?
• 26:42
  And then like, you know, times before I definitely got me in lots of trouble.
• 26:46
  And so it gave me, gave me the clarity of like, just of knowing what to believe, what I'm at, what's actually coming from like my conscious will of choice of choosing to think about, or just some, something I had learned throughout my past that's just coming up thinking it knows where to direct me, like ego, the mind, whatever.
• 27:04
  and having that discernment.
• 27:06
  It's been a massive, massive shift and not just being unconscious and just kind of going with the flow of whatever, thinking like my thoughts are me.
• 27:16
  Every thought that comes through, that's me.
• 27:17
  I got to listen to it and it knows what's up.
• 27:21
  No.
• 27:22
  might not man like in having that discernment and just that just that witnessing myself and not jumping into things has made a drastic shift in life i mean as you can see here but definitely answer your question yeah for sure it's definitely made changes and just how my processing is how i process and how i like how i speak how i walk how i talk i mean the whole thing
• 27:48
  I was just about to ask you, you know, I watched you do a ton of very brave work in the brotherhood.
• 27:53
  You participated on a lot of the calls, and I know you participated in all the breakouts.
• 27:57
  I was just going to ask you, where else has this shown up in your life?
• 28:00
  And you said it's changed how you walk, how you talk.
• 28:02
  Where else have you seen it?
• 28:06
  Yeah, I mean, and how I walk, how I talk and everything like and so, again, as within so without so like, as I as I see myself more, and I, one thing I like to want to say is that I really profoundly Yeah.
• 28:22
  taken the word acceptance into my life.
• 28:25
  I said for a while, acceptance is love.
• 28:28
  Really, acceptance leads love because acceptance isn't love, but acceptance is what leads us to being more forgiving to ourselves and respecting ourselves more and actually owning ourselves because the only way to appreciate and to actually have any type of change on our perspective of how we see the world is to love ourselves for who we are and what we are and what we went through.
• 28:50
  And in that, having the appreciation and the acceptance of myself being reactive and crash my bike and doing this stuff is like, oh,
• 28:59
  and accepting it and loving it anyways, because it was all part of the process.
• 29:03
  It's changed, changed so much in just how, again, how I walk, how I talk, how, and within that has changed like my reactivity, like to people I associate myself with.
• 29:15
  Like, you know, there's been many friends, friends that I've, they're not, you know, I just stopped communicating with because they're not really, they're not really my friend in that sense.
• 29:24
  They're just kind of like people that just want to like,
• 29:27
  spill out their problems in life too.
• 29:29
  And maybe I can, you know, help them with some stuff or guide them or whatever, or like just hear them out to whatever they're dealing with and like stuff like that.
• 29:37
  Um, having more friendships, people I surround myself with, um, my direction in life, the steps I take, um, what I'm, my intentions are to, to create, to do, I mean so much, my whole life has changed, changed and shifted.
• 29:51
  Um, um,
• 29:54
  Yeah, and to bring that down more to a more grounded level is, right, the walking, talking, and acting, and being.
• 30:04
  It's, I mean, just like...
• 30:09
  just like the respect that I have for like, you know, everything, whether it's a person, place, animals, I mean, life and itself.
• 30:18
  Like it's just, it's a beautiful reflection because like I respect myself and I see that what I had to go through and I'm like, Oh man, you know, I own it.
• 30:25
  I'm like, forgive myself.
• 30:27
  I see what, I see why it happened and stuff.
• 30:29
  And I'm like, all right, man, I get it.
• 30:31
  I love you.
• 30:31
  And then when I, when I'm like that and I fill up my cup, my cup's full, I can easily, you know,
• 30:37
  give others some of this some of this love and some of this abundance and it doesn't feel like i'm like draining myself and like and i just the people i associate myself with um going back to that um are just it's just more appreciative and they're more grounded they're not talking about emotional stuff or like reactivity like being like oh this person or being very shallow or any of that stuff like those are people that i kind of like just all right you know i didn't join i
• 31:07
  Oh, okay, for sure.
• 31:09
  And like, it's really just gave me more like understanding on like my path in life instead of being so confused and spreading my energy thin.
• 31:20
  It's gave me a lot more focus and refinement.
• 31:24
  So good.
• 31:26
  Patrick, you kind of mentioned this, but I want to ask the direct question.
• 31:29
  You know, in the brotherhood, we have one of our one of our main focuses is self-forgiveness.
• 31:34
  You know, we go through that self-forgiveness ritual.
• 31:36
  What was it like for you to forgive yourself?
• 31:41
  Well, definitely took a decent amount of courage and vulnerability, bravery.
• 31:52
  I mean, stepping into that because turning that mirror on yourself, actually seeing yourself, like, wait, what?
• 31:59
  And so it was uncomfortable for sure.
• 32:03
  Very, very nervousness.
• 32:06
  Just felt like I needed to go run or...
• 32:09
  do this or whatever.
• 32:09
  Oh, I got to go do some breath work or something like just very uncomfortable.
• 32:13
  I couldn't, couldn't want to stay contained.
• 32:16
  So, um, but it's, it's through that though, that like, I feel so much going through that and having the courage, you know, to do that and step into it.
• 32:27
  I feel so much relief and freedom that I can easily speak about this stuff.
• 32:31
  And it's like, there's no emotional distraught there.
• 32:34
  There's no, like, I'm not like getting like entangled with emotions, like to do this.
• 32:38
  I'm like, I can just speak about it so freely and openly.
• 32:40
  And like, and I want to, I really want to, because I want to like help others and tell others, like it's okay to be seen, to be heard, to be felt.
• 32:48
  Like you're not alone.
• 32:49
  Like, come on out, man.
• 32:51
  Like, let go of that stuff.
• 32:52
  It's, you know, it's, it's okay.
• 32:54
  Like, um, yeah, man.
• 32:58
  Thank you, Patrick.
• 32:59
  So if there's a guy out there listening right now who feels like you did and is stepping towards the brotherhood, what would you tell him?
• 33:10
  I would tell them if you're seeing it, you're willing to step into it.
• 33:18
  Don't have any, you know, just let go of your projections and your mental personifications.
• 33:25
  Like, oh, it's going to do this.
• 33:26
  It's going to do that.
• 33:26
  It's going to do all these things going to happen.
• 33:28
  You know, just step into it.
• 33:30
  Open-minded and allow yourself to see what you're going to see and feel what you're going to feel.
• 33:38
  And just know, like, you know, you might be uncomfortable.
• 33:41
  It's going to happen, but it's part of seeing yourself.
• 33:44
  It's part of seeing, like, the beliefs, the perceptions that no longer serve you, that they're not part of who you are, and seeing that.
• 33:52
  And when you see that stuff,
• 33:54
  It's vulnerable.
• 33:55
  It's hard to see it.
• 33:56
  But when you see it, it's like you're able to let that go and it's freedom.
• 34:00
  It's like dropping down these subconscious weights off of you and letting them go and it's freer.
• 34:07
  You're able to now make decisions, have more clarity, make decisions you want to make and where you want to go and stuff.
• 34:13
  So there's so much autonomy, so much beauty comes from it.
• 34:18
  So good.
• 34:18
  Thank you, Patrick.
• 34:20
  Last question.
• 34:21
  Well, second to last question.
• 34:24
  What would you go back and tell the version of you before you started the Brotherhood?
• 34:29
  What would I tell the version of you before I started?
• 34:33
  Um...
• 34:36
  I guess I would tell him, I mean, because I stepped into it, you know, that version did step into this, did actually do it.
• 34:42
  So I would just tell him, I would just tell him, uh, you know, it's okay.
• 34:47
  It's okay, man.
• 34:48
  Like this is, this is what you need.
• 34:50
  Like it's, so it's all right, man.
• 34:52
  Like there's, it's okay to be vulnerable, to be, to be scared, to have any nervousness or any of that.
• 34:57
  Like just, just do this.
• 34:58
  This is the way to go.
• 34:59
  Um.
• 35:03
  What can I tell them?
• 35:05
  Just that like, it's going to improve so much of your relationships, like within yourself and others.
• 35:10
  And like, you're going to have so much more clarity and awareness on life to be able to then have discernment with your path and which direction you should go and where you should focus your energy on.
• 35:21
  Because all your energy flows where attention goes.
• 35:25
  So where do you want to put your attention and your energy into now?
• 35:28
  you're not going to be so so spread thin you're going to have more clarity on the direction you want to go and when life and and whatnot you're going to see the beauty and the appreciation of yourself for one first and foremost um and you're going to love yourself more you're going to appreciate who you are and you're going to love you're going to appreciate love and that you stepped into this you're gonna be like oh man i was nervous going to do this but like whoo thankfully i did like i'm so grateful and like i'm gonna feel the beauty and
• 35:57
  So good.
• 35:58
  So good.
• 35:59
  All right.
• 35:59
  This is the real last question.
• 36:01
  Is there anything else you'd like to share, Patrick?
• 36:04
  Anything I'd like to share?
• 36:07
  Just that the biggest thing there is clarity.
• 36:14
  With clarity, I see so much.
• 36:16
  I've seen for a while since my near-death experience.
• 36:19
  I was just so unclear.
• 36:20
  I had to look.
• 36:22
  I was looking outside of myself for clarity and different things.
• 36:24
  And I started seeing it within myself.
• 36:27
  I seen, I could see that there was a lot of just distraught, a lot of just like, like people didn't know the direction to take in life, like confusion.
• 36:41
  I seen a lot of that.
• 36:43
  And like, I'm like, while I was going through this and part of me, it was like, Oh, I want to learn this and I'm going to help others.
• 36:48
  I want to do this.
• 36:49
  And, and definitely, um, get alone myself because I could just see where the world was.
• 36:58
  It's basically just stepping into this, stepping into it, no matter how unclear you are, how you feel, and whatnot.
• 37:07
  Just stepping into it with courage.
• 37:10
  We don't know step three or four or five, where it's going to go until we take step one.
• 37:15
  And then step two comes.
• 37:16
  We can't know ahead of time.
• 37:19
  So just step into it.
• 37:20
  Take...
• 37:21
  Take, utilize your courage and don't be scared.
• 37:24
  I mean, even if you are, just step into it and like understand.
• 37:28
  I'm sure, you know, there's many of these podcasts, many of these that people say very similar things.
• 37:32
  And you could see probably in them like of where they are and how they feel.
• 37:38
  Like it's through this, it's through seeing ourselves that we have so much more love.
• 37:43
  and just beauty for ourselves.
• 37:45
  And we fill our, fill ourselves up with that.
• 37:47
  It's, it's inevitable to pour out into the world and to others.
• 37:50
  And this is what shifts your, your, your lens perspective of how you see yourself, how you see reality.
• 37:56
  And, and it allows you to just love more.
• 37:59
  And through that, it's everything is just beautiful.
• 38:01
  And you realize that again, you're not, you're not needing to swim upstream.
• 38:05
  You can turn around and go with the flow.
• 38:07
  Like it's beautiful.
• 38:10
  Jake, thank you so much, brother.
• 38:12
  I was just going to say, I appreciate you so much, Alex, and what you do.
• 38:15
  And like, you know, first coming up high in your book, entrepreneur, entrepreneur, EFT, is it?
• 38:23
  Yeah.
• 38:24
  Personality.
• 38:24
  EPT.
• 38:25
  EPT.
• 38:26
  Yeah.
• 38:26
  I started reading that.
• 38:27
  I was like, oh, this is so good.
• 38:28
  I was deep dove into that.
• 38:29
  I was just like, oh, it's so good.
• 38:31
  I loved how it's...
• 38:32
  broke everything down into like these high, higher known perceptions and to like grounded them into like reality, the survivalist instinct and the hunters and whatnot, like how we all are.
• 38:43
  And that just made everything more, more clarity, more sense to it.
• 38:47
  So I appreciate you so much, Alex, and having me on and creating these brotherhood, these containers to serve the world and be, you know, to be, to be the light that you are, man.
• 38:55
  I appreciate it.
• 38:56
  Thank you.
• 38:57
  I so accept that reflection and I appreciate it deeply.
• 39:00
  And I really appreciate you being here today to contribute to others, Patrick.
• 39:04
  And, uh, if you're a man who's listening to this podcast or watching us and you related to anything Patrick said, you feel lost, you feel reactive.
• 39:13
  You feel like there's just too much energy in the situation sometimes, and maybe it's challenging you and your relationship, come to the brotherhood.
• 39:21
  We'd be honored to walk this
• 39:26
  in the world who are there to heal themselves, heal their families, do better in their life, increase their capacity, and hold masculine containment, which is one of the most powerful forces in the world, not just for the person that we're with, but for us as well.
• 39:40
  You can go to thebrotherhoodsociety.com to learn more information, sign up for a waiting list, or jump on an interview if we're in an open container period.
• 39:49
  I'd be honored to walk this path with you, and I look forward to seeing you soon.
• 39:53
  Thanks again, Patrick.