Latest / Both Things Are True Crime / Teresa and Joe Giudice: one parent always home
Transcript
- part theresea + Joe: There is a federal courthouse in Newark, New Jersey, and on the 2nd of October 2014, a woman who has spent five years on television is standing up in it. Sh this woman, she's 42 years old, she has four daughters at home, the youngest of them five. She has spent these five television years being loud and funny and honestly sort of magnificent. Flipping a table in the first season, building a house so big that it has its own gate. And she's about to find out from a United States district judge how long she's going to prison. Her husband is standing next to her, too. He's also about to find out. And listen, they're going to both find out something that neither of them thought about. Which is that they're not going to jail at the same time. And this is not a moment anybody produced. Nobody pitched it in a room with the whiteboard. There's no bumper music on. under it. There's no confessional afterwards where somebody explains how they're feeling about it and there's no Andy. And I wanna leave them standing there for a second because we're gonna come back to this exact room, and when we do, you're gonna understand why the judge did what she did. But first, I would like to take you back thirteen years to a desk and a form and one line on it. So let's talk about it. September Two thousand and one. Teresa Judece is 29 years old, and there's no television show, no Bravo, no cameras, no Andy Cohen in her life in any capacity whatsoever. Teresa Judece, by all means, is a woman in New Jersey who wants a house, okay? And now that house costs $121,000 more than what she has. So, you know what she does? She fills out a mortgage application. And now, on the line. Where it wants to know what you do for a living. Miss Teresa writes that she was an executive assistant. She's not an executive assistant. And this is the part I want you to actually sit in because it is the whole episode and it takes about four seconds, right? Because there's a pen, there's a box, and the box just wants a job. Right? But she doesn't have that job. And instead of putting down the thing that is true. And let's say not getting the house, she puts down a thing that is not true and she gets the house. And that by itself is a lie on a farm. People now, people know, they do it every day. And most of them are never heard from again. But we do have a problem here because Miss Teresa, Miss Judice, doesn't really stop there. Instead, she now submits W two forms for the job she doesn't have, she submits pay stuff for the salary she's not earning. Somebody made those, somebody printed them out and put them in an envelope. That's the line. Lying on an application is one thing, right? But manufacturing of documents that prove the lie is a different thing. And it is the thing that thirteen years later is going to put her in front of a federal judge. Now I want to be fair about something. Because in two thousand and one there was no camera watching her do this, which means she didn't do it for a storyline, you guys. Nobody put her up to it. She did this for a house. And I think that matters because there's a version of this story that the internet tells sometimes, and that story is that Bravo ruined these people. But the show didn't exist yet. While Teresa was already there at her desk with a pen. Eight years before the first episode. Now, here's what happens after you get away with the once. You do it again. Not immediately, not dramatically, but you do it the next time you want something that costs more than you have, which for most people is like probably every couple of years, and every single time it works, you learn the same lesson, at least you think, which is that nobody checks. So now let's go to 2005, right? Four years later. A mortgage this time for $300 and about $61,000. So roughly triple the first one, you guys. And on this application, the two of them say that Teresa is a realtor, if y'all didn't know it, making $15,000 a month. Teresa's not employed at all. But notice what grew. The number tripled, and the lie got bigger to match it. She did not stay in the executive assistant. Now she is a woman with a hundred and eighty thousand dollar a year career because that is what the bigger house required her to be on paper. And that is how it works. The lie is not a decision you make once. It is a thing you have to keep feeding and it gets hungrier. Now, this ran from 2001 to 2008, seven years of fraudulent application cylinders, claiming jobs and salaries that just didn't exist. And on Joe's side, there is a separate thread running underneath the whole time. Because from 2004 to 2008, he takes in about $996,000 in income. And he does not file a single tax return. He's not following the late. One or a wrong one. He's just not filing at all for five years, almost a million dollars, zero returns. So picture where these two are by 2008, right? They have a house they got with paper that was not true. They have another house they got with paper that was not true, and his five years of income the government does not know about, and nothing has happened to either of them. I think that is the most dangerous place a person can stand. And I don't think most people recognize it when they're standing in it, if you get what I mean. So October twenty ninth, two thousand and nine, right? The Judices they filed for chapter seven bankruptcy in Newark. And I wanna say something here before I say anything else, because I think this may get we get put a little backwards. I didn't put that sentence right, but gets put a little backwards sometimes, constantly. And I think it may change the way you may hear the rest of this episode. Maybe not. Maybe I'm telling you guys nothing new. Probably. But being broke is legal, right? Being broke is so legal from last time I checked that there's an entire federal court system built for the specific purpose of helping you be broke in an orderly fashion. Because a chapter seven discharge wipes out your debt where it's gone. And the people you owe don't get paid, and they have to just live with it. But what y'all think about it? Let's let's really think about it. That's an enormous thing for a court to hand a person, right? So in exchange, the law it charges a price for it. And the price is not money. No, the price is total honesty. Because you are supposed to disclose everything. Every asset, every business, every stream of income under oath, you do not get to pick which ones to list. You do not get to leave off the embarrassing one or the profitable one or the one you're hoping it's bigger. And they also, on top of it, you guys, they filed several amendments to it, which means they had more than one chance to put the whole thing down. But here's what they left off: businesses they owed, income from a rental property, Teresa's real income from the television show, website sales. personal in magazine appearances and the income they were expecting for season two. So Teresa and Joe, Juicy J, they sit down in a proceeding and they testify under oath about their assets and their income and what they said was not true. So let's stop and count what just happened, right? Because it is three separate things, and the law treats them as three separate crimes. They hid it, they swore to it, they signed it. You do not get a discount for doing all three in one filing. Nope, nope, nope. You get three counts. So Sorry if I'm going all over the place, but I want to back up five months, right? Because there's something I skipped a little on purpose, alright? So May 2009, right? This is the Real Housewives of New Jersey premieres. Teresa Judice is on it from the first episode. So the bankruptcy petition in October is not something that happened to a private family. Now it is something that happened to a woman who, at that moment, had a television show. And This is the fact that made me want to do this episode at all, y'all, okay? Because the show is the hidden asset. The thing they can steal from federal bankruptcy court was Bravo, her income from it, and the money they were already expecting from a second season that had not aired yet. So let's think about what this means about the footage, okay? Because that camera in that house. Was not necessarily a news crew covering the case from the outside. That camera was inside the fraud. It was standing in the middle of an income stream that two people had sworn to a federal judge didn't even exist. And it was rolling and they were like mugging into it. You know what I'm saying? Every episode is a receipt. And they knew the cameras were there. That's the part that gets me right, because you cannot forget a film crew is in your kitchen. They were lying about the camera while standing directly in front of it on schedule for money. And when you really think about it, that has to be either the most arrogant thing you could ever hear or the most oblivious. And by the end of this episode, I'm gonna let you know which one I think it is. I think y'all know which one think it is. But let's I digress. So July 2023 happened, right? This is four years after the petition. The government, they are filing a superseding indictment, which is really just a replacement charging document that comes The original one, usually because they found more, and it had 41 counts in it. And I'm about to read you what they pleaded to, but quick thing first, because I'm gonna say a whole bunch of numbers, okay? And I want them to mean something instead of sound like a license plate. All right, I'd learn so I was representing myself per se in court. because I didn't want to sound stupid. But when you see 18 USC 1349 written down. You say it out loud as title eighteen, section thirteen, forty-nine. I said forty-one, forty-nine. USC is United States Code, which is every federal federal law there is, sorted into titles, and title eighteen is crimes, title twenty-six is taxes, and the number after it is the section, the one specific law, and if there's a number in parentheses, that is a subsection. So 152 sub one title section subsection. And now we are all boys and girls reading federal citations now. Look at us now, okay? Well got on Piper. Anyway, so they plead each pleaded to afford counts, right? In front of United States District Judge Esther Sallas. One count of conspiracy to commit mail fraud and wire fraud, Title 18, Section 1349. One count of bankruptcy fraud by concealment of assets, 152 sub one. That's the hiding. One count of bankruptcy fraud by false or oats. 152 sub two, that's the swearing, and one count of bankruptcy fraud by false declarations. 152 sub three, that's the signing. And Joe Joe, Mr. Juze Joe, he added a fifth by his little self. Okay. One count of failure to file a tax return, Title 26, Section 7203, because taxes live in their own little title. Four counts each and five for Joe. So I'm just saying that plainly because. If you look on the internet, it's like the the conclusion for a lot of sites is that these two pleaded guilty to 41 counts. I even saw that on NBC. But 41 from what I can see is the charging sheet, and four was the deal. And here's the thing that I want y'all to carry out of this conversation. They were not prosecuted for being broke. They were prosecuted for lying about what they had while going to the court and being like, Hey, forgive what I owe. The debt they had was never the crime. The paperwork was the crime. So we jump it all around. I know follow me here, follow me. October the second, 2014, Newark. We now we are back to where we started, right? And Teresa, she's getting herself 15 months, two years of supervised release, and an $8,000 fine. Joe's getting 41 months, two years of supervised release, and a $10,000 fine. And together they forfeit $414,000. And Then Judge Sallas does the same I brought you back here for, okay? Because Teresa is to report to the Bureau of Prisons on January 5th, 2015, and Joe does not begin his sentence until she finishes hers. And that's actually in the Justice Department's own press release, which is so interesting. Not it's not a rumor or a Bravo edit or something that a producer was able to arrange. Instead, it was a federal judge looking at two guilty people and four daughters, the the youngest of them nine years old by then, and they built the sentence so that one parent could always be in that house. And she could have really sent them both at once. It would have been faster. And nobody would have been able to call it unfair, but she didn't. So everything we watched on television after that was not a family coping with something, it was a court order playing out in a kitchen. And I want to be honest about how I felt watching it, which is that the stagger was mercy and punishment at the same time, signed by the same hand on the same afternoon. She gave them less than she could have, and she arranged it as carefully as a person can arrange a thing like that. And it still took a parent out of that house for four straight years, which is what it was supposed to do, because that's what a sentence is. So January 2015 happens, right? Teresa goes in. December 2015, Teresa comes home. About 11 months of a 15 month sentence. Then Joe goes in. He serves at Fort Dixon, then in Allenwood, and is scheduled for release on March 14th, 2019. Four years and two months of handling children back and forth by order of a court. And I don't have to editorialize that. I just set the dates in order so you could do the math on how old those girls were. But I'm gonna say my own thing here because I have watched this footage more than once and it does something to me. That has nothing to do about whether I like Teresa Judice. Okay? Okay. Just a little thought. Okay, the house too big. And I'm not saying in a shady way. I just mean physically. It was built for family of six who were all supposed to be in it. And honestly, once it just got down to five people, I don't know. I just feel like a house like that doesn't know how to hold a gap. Instead it just echoes. And I feel like the camera ended up unintentionally cap caught cat cannot speak. Catching that. Let me not talk about people house, okay? 'Cause I'm I'm I'm I can't talk, okay? but it just felt big. That was that's pretty much it, honestly. And like with even just one parent missing and them switching it off or whatever, like it just felt empty. It really did. And I feel like the camera unintentionally caught that. And I think that is just a very honest thing about reality television that just happened to occur. And honestly, then too, watching Joe with those girls while he was still home, knowing the trade was coming, it was literally one of the most gracious and most painful things I've ever seen on television. He was not getting away with anything. He was running a clock. Every dinner was a countdown. And the kindest thing the court did for those children is the same thing that guaranteed the loss would have to happen twice. And here's what I really think about Teresa Judece. I think Teresa Judice is irreplaceable as a freaking mother. Not because she's good on it on camera, because she's really not the best on the camera. I think she's a better mother off camera. She's a little awk as a kid mom on camera sometimes. and also she's also not that sympathetic. but she's irreplaceable because she is theirs, okay? There is nothing like the womb you come from, alright? Even in a complicated dynamic, even when the two of you Do not agree on what happened or who she is or who you are. That's not a sentimental statement. That's a structural one. There is only one of your mama, and there's never going to be another one. You know? And listen, I know a little thing or two about a comp complicated dynamic with a mother, okay? And I'm not about to narrate minds right here, okay? but I will say the useful part I think is that you can be angry at a woman. And still know that nobody on this earth is going to replace her. I think those two things live in the same body at the same time permanently. And anybody who tells you to pick one, I feel like they selling you something. So when I say Teresa committed seven years of fraud with manufactured documents and lied under oath in the federal courtroom, and then in the next breath say that those four girls lost something nobody could sub in for. I ain't so often in the first part. And I'm not asking you to feel bad for her. I'm just telling you I think both sentences are accurate. And that's the whole thing name of the show, ain't it? Both things are true. Crime, which Kayla, what's up? So I said earlier I would tell you whether I thought that this was arrogance or oblivioness. Obli p cannot speak. Obliviousness. And I think it was obviously obliviousness, right? At least about the money. I don't think Teresa and Joe Judice are some masterminds. like when I think about the mortgages and the paperwork and the whole seven-year habit, I think that they were naive and I think they were stupid. Not cunning, not sitting at a kitchen table running a scheme with the whiteboard. But I kinda think almost stupid in the specific way where you just kinda believe that rules are suggestion and that the paperwork is just some formality and that nobody's actually reading any of it. And when I really think about it, in another reality I can see these exact two people getting in trouble for like using someone else's address to get their kid in the best or school district or food stamp fraud. Same instinct, smaller number, no cameras, it nobody ever typically hears of stuff like that. And I can especially see Teresa. Just not understanding what honesty on a form is actually for. Sometimes she just gives me the impression that she's just to be like, shave a little here, round up a little there, keep a little bit more in your pocket, get more house for less money, dip the system a little bit because everybody does it. And that's exactly why I think this story is worth someone's whole life hearing. Because those choices outlive the moments you make them. The law not catching you right away is not the law missing it, okay? It's the law. maybe not having gotten to you yet. But I know we jumping all around. I'm gonna go back to that desk in September 2001, right? Because a woman who writes down a job she does not have, then we got the bill for that that arrives in a federal courtroom in October 2014, 13 years later, with interest with four daughters in the gallery and with a sentence attached. You do not get to pick when the invoice comes. You only get to pick whether you hand them the paper. So March fourteenth, twenty nineteen comes around, right? Joe finishes his sentence. But as we all know, he ain't going home. he going home, but he ain't going home home. Or he or he's going home home, but he's not going home. Y'all get what I'm saying. He walks out of the federal prison and into ice custody because Joe Judice was born in Italy. We all know he came here as an infant. He grew up in New Jersey. He went to school in New Jersey. He married an American citizen. He had four American daughters and he lived in this country for every year of his life except the first one, and he was never naturalized. Which now a lot of people don't realize that that's a thing you actually have to go do. Growing up here just doesn't automatically do it for you. Marrying a citizen does not just automatically do it for you. It just can make the line shorter. But somebody has to go fill out that paperwork and go sit in that office. And so immigration judge John Ellington ordered him departed, deported, departed, my gosh, deported. And the order took effect when he finished his sentence. And he sat in ice custody for months fighting it. We watched it. And he lost. In October 2019, he had to go to Italy. Now here's a mechanism, and this is the most useful thing in part one. If you're ever sitting in a room with someone who's about to take a plea, I think, okay, if you are. Deportation is from what I can see called a collateral consequence, which means the judge does not impose it, the criminal judge, that is, does not impose it, and the criminal judge cannot stop it. So when Judge Sallas sentenced him, and I hope I'm saying her name right, but when Miss Judge S sentence him to forty one months, she didn't sentence him to exile. She couldn't have. But she also couldn't have prevented it either. And that's because a completely separate system, as we all know, the immigration court, they look at the same conviction and they reach their own result. So the sentencing judge has zero authority over this at all. Two courts, one conviction, two punishments, and only one of them was in that sentence. And the Supreme Court has said that this matters so much that your lawyers actually required, mandated to warn you about it. Padilla versus Kentucky, 559 US 356. Decided in 2010, so that's volume five, fifty-nine of the United States reports, page three fifty-six, which is just where to go find it. In this case, it holds that your sixth amendment right to effective counsel includes being told that a guilty plea could get you removed from the country. And before Padilla, defense attorneys routinely would treat this as like, no, this is someone else's department. This is not my job. You need to go find an immigration lawyer. But the court said, Hold up, Swallow. If this plea can get your client deported, that is your job. So let's do the arithmetic. Padilla was decided in 2010 and Joe pleaded guilty in 2014. So the duty was four years old by then, right? His lawyer was required to tell him this could happen, which reframes the whole thing. Joe was not blindsided. He took a plea knowing the country could send him away afterwards. And then the country sent him away afterwards. So I like to give my little opinion here. And I don't really think it's that the sympathetic one, okay? Because do I think Joe should have been deported, pulled away from his family and four daughters after everything that family had been through? Yeah, I do. I think it was the right call and I think it was a humane one. Because those were the rules and he knew them. We all operate under a social contract. We all learn this, right? This is the basic arrangement in our country, and it's not a complicated one. You get the road, you get the courts, and you get the protection. You get to build an entire life here. And in exchange, you are supposed to follow the law. And you pay what you owe. And I don't think that's harsh. I think that's the floor. So to have that much money moving through your hands here year after year after year, and to decide you are simply not going to do the part you are supposed to be doing. Hell no, Bajo. And I'm sorry, and that in the in the utmost love as much as I can because a little part of me remember back in the day when he was on the phone and and Therese was like, Who on the phone? Who on the phone? They was in Italy, y'all remember I think they was in Italy, they was vacationing somewhere and they was like, Who on the phone? Who on the phone? And it was like some girl, I don't remember exactly the the details 'cause all the housewives get mixed in my brain and like for some reason I think I'm being transported to another housewife in my memory. but I know I'm mad at Joe. I've been mad at Joe ever since then. Because while I don't believe we have ever have gotten concrete proof he cheated on Teresa, I think he most likely did. And I don't like that. And I wasn't appreciative. So bye Joe. But I do I do genuinely, genuinely, genuinely feel devastated for the damage that it did to his daughters. They are the ones that I feel the worst about. But if I'm gonna be honest with you, they're also not even in the worst position. to be honest, they all live. They all they all are g good. okay, Melania's having some struggles, okay? But for the most part, you know what? Like, yes, he missed out on things and like the the the let me tell y'all, the real trauma and like difficulty with it, this is my little aside, my little unplanned thoughts. What I think what I think is the real like gut wrenching thing is that especially for They're family dynamic. they're very, very like they have a lot of like routines and like family traditions and like family customs and just they had all so many things that they were looking forward to, like where it just felt like Teresa had a role to play in in the situation, and Joe did. Like you could just tell that it really ripped their hearts apart almost that for certain events, like prom and just different things like that, graduation to not have both their parents there. you could just tell, like it was just that is the only part that hurts. Okay. Is so, you know, I'm moving on. Anyway, and then my other thought is something else I want to say is that I don't think people talk about how much he was blessed. Because when you really like, yeah, he missed. This is where both things are true. Yeah, he missed out on like these things and certain things. But you know what? Even when you really think about it, he still got to be. A part of his daughter's life in all in ways. maybe he wasn't able to be there equally for all four of them in every single event of their lives, but he still has daughters who all love him and who all have memories with him. And I know the youngest one has the least, but at the same time, I don't know. You get what I'm saying? I just think there's other ways we can look at it as well. Cause he got to be there here his whole life. He grew up in New Jersey. He married who he wanted. He built a family. He raised four daughters in a house. Most people will never set a foot inside, right? And then on top of all that, he got to be on television, which is a life almost nobody on this earth is really handed, right? And he got it in the most personal way there is. And it's sad that sometimes he did still come up as a really big A Hole. But like, you know, we still got to meet him with his actual family in his actual kitchen. That's even still a good like comfortable dynamic. Like, you know, like we eat like he didn't have to be met To the world on like love is blind of a very uncomfortable, I would think, environment where you're trying to find a match or whatever. I haven't watched that show in so long. but I hope y'all get what I'm saying, right? Like, I think he's a little blessed. I don't think people talk about that enough. 'cause Joe got every bit of it. And the only thing he had to really do was go file the paperwork and not commit federal crimes. Because he had an easy path to citizenship and he did not take it. That's the part that I keep not really getting right. Lawful permanent resident married to an American citizen here since a baby. That's the short line. That's the line that people wait years and years and spend thousands of dollars to be standing in. And him choosing not to naturalize while he was actively out there committing crimes. When you sit with the order of those two choices, I feel like you decline to go get the one thing that makes you unremovable. Like, come on. And then you go and do the exact category thing that gets people removed. And Sadly, Teresa's own father said it out loud in public. Rest in peace. He said Joe only has himself to blame, even though I don't all way agree. Because Teresa Judice is not stupid. This is another thought to just have, right? I don't believe for one second that she did not know what her husband's status was or what his choices were, or that this ending was sitting there as a possibility the whole time. She knew he was not a citizen. Listen, you don't marry a man and not know that. At least not her. Okay? She she may be a little off a little bit. Sometimes I think is the act, a little bit of an act. you know, I just like you got sometimes just I sometimes think she's disassociated too. But I die guys. I just think that The two of them made a choice to build a family anyway. Four times over. And with that arrangement in place, neither one of them was doing anything about this. So I kind of feel like she carries some of it. Not legally. Listen, she answered for her own count and she served her own sentence and she did it like a G2. Teresa, I'm going to camp. Hey, let go. Come on. Let's go do this time. Sh Teresa, I did the crime, I'm gonna do the time, I'm gonna come back home and I ain't gonna do that no more. And she almost it felt like she almost got in trouble with Louie again. Teresa, be careful. Teresa really need that people looking out for her. but listen, that's just my thoughts, okay? Okay. I think that four girls lost their father to a risk that both of their parents could see. And neither of them went and fixed. Now, Teresa cannot force Joe to do it, but actually I feel like Teresa could've forced Joe to do it. Like many parts. Teresa could have just been on that behind like unrelentingly. you ain't getting none until you go get go start on that citizenship. you want another baby? I want I want the papers. I want you to get them papers, baby. You no more babies till you get these papers, baby. Like, y'all get what I'm saying? Anyway. So, listen, that's not the course doing. That's kind of theirs, in my opinion. Now, Joe went to Italy in October 2019 and later he moved to Bahamas. And he's been outside this country for seven years. And on June 26, 2025, he posted a photo carousel of himself with his four daughters on Instagram. And he wants the president of the United States to give him a pardon. He even tagged Trump and Trump Jr. And he's like, I have served my sentence. was raised in New Jersey and I want to be allowed to visit you guys again. And at the end he said, President Trump. I respect you. And I'm asking for a second chance. I don't know why I'm reading stuff like this. There's like it has nothing to do with how I feel about them. It's just the random voices I come up with. and they're all the same. They're all the same. They're all the same. See? Anyway. so in August two thousand twenty six now Gia come on the spot, right? And she's like, My family has filed what I'm calling a humanitarian packet. I said, Girl, what a what a humanitarian packet do? but on top of that, then Teresa and Gia. Hey. Melania said, Teresa Judice. I said, Girl, girl, girl, girl, girl. I wish I was in a Tampa airport. Cause I would've like, Teresa Judice. What's up? Y'all good? I would have been like in the body camera. I'd be hi Millennial, calm down. Be good. Just kidding. I wish her the best. Seriously. I like to make jokes for that. I wish you're the best. But so Teresa and Gia, they go to the White House, right? Trump and the first lady invited him. And they went for or President Trump should be polite, correct. for Columbus Day and Italian American Heritage Day. And you know, they kinda like went to go pander to get a a p personal favor from the president. and I don't really think that's beneath them, you know, especially with the president we're talking about. I don't find it surprising. I don't know, I feel like this family has spent twenty years learning that proximity is a currency and that you go stand where power is standing. So I just feel like of course that was a move. I think it was always gonna be the move. But the part that makes the whole thing lean with me, 'cause I'm like, girl, what's a humanitarian packet? Like Does G Gia Gia got the super papers? Cause What y'all Trump can't Trump can't I'm trying to even figure out to explain. Trump can't do nothing. what is humanitarian What is a humanitarian packet? President Joe parshed, pardon, we didn't fix a removal order. A pardon could fix the conviction. Didn't he already serve his time? Hey Trump, President Trump, sorry. Could you please? I'm b listen, I don't not I'm not the biggest fan of the man, but I ain't gonna be disrespectful. If he's the president, he the president, and I'm gonna say President Trump. but but I don't even know what I was about to say. I don't even remember anymore. Cause it just it just it's so funny. I'm just confused and trying to figure out how this may have happened, who d I'm almost wondering like did someone take Gia's money and like give her legal advice and didn't tell her everything and came up with 'cause I even looked maybe someone can find the humanitarian packet. I you know what, let me 'cause I've been wrong before and I will always be wrong and I've no real clue. Like what I'm completely talking about to be honest with you. I'm just talking about stuff. And Yeah, I just just wanted to look one more time just in case I missed it. I don't really everything like I when I look search humanitarian packet, I'm not seeing anything that really matches that exact thing. I mean, hold on, actually. You know what? I there's a th phrase I did not think about doing. Sometimes sometimes I just like to think out loud and No one's here, but you guys are helping me think out loud a bit. Humanitarian packet four Over turning a removal order immigration. You know, sometimes just gotta search the right things, and I may find Yeah, even AI and Google said no. So but you know what, maybe maybe she's thinking of it as this would just be the first step. first we'll get the pardon and then we'll get the removal order. Mm oof. Because these come out of very two different systems. That's the exact thing I said it probably ten minutes ago. And it turns out it is still true even all the way to the top, okay? Because even an immigration attorney, he laid it out to Newsweek, and he's like, even with a pardon in hand, he would still have to overcome the removal order and then get separate permission from the government to even apply to come back. And that's what I'm thinking. Maybe that's what g maybe that's what Gia's thinking. maybe s maybe there's a lawyer out there who has convinced her that well you gotta do the first step and then we'll work on we'll then we'll work on the second step. Then we'll get there. I I hope they're good. I I hope that they're good. 'cause I know those girls really just want to do what they can to try to get their dad back over here. And they're they're they're they're fighting. They listen. This didn't I say this man is blessed? Right? It's insane. But as of October the twelfth, two thousand twenty six, a White House official said that submitting a pardon request does not mean anybody's considering it and that the clemacy team is not currently tracking his. Probably because they're like, What do you want us to do? You wanna to start a whole bunch of hoopla and give you a pardon for this for a sentence you technically already served? I don't know. Okay anyway. I guess I guess if they're also thinking if they get a pardon for Maybe that's it. Maybe they're thinking that if they could get a pardon for the whole criminal activity in the first place that he did, that then maybe that would negate him being removed in the first place. Anyway, we're at the end of this. That is from two thousand one to thousand twenty six. This is twenty five years from start to finish. And to sum it all up, we basically have a woman who writes a job she does not have in a mortgage application in 2001, a man who does not file a tax return in 2004, a television show that arrived in 2009 and I was pretty entertained by. And they hid it from a court the same year. So then a judge sentences them in 2014 and arranges it so that the children are never alone. And then Juicy J is deported in 2019 and in 2026 he is in the Bahamas wanting a president. Do a favor that the president, from what I can understand, cannot actually grant him. And not one single step of that was Bravo's decision. Not one, because a network cannot indict you, sentence you, extend your reporting date, bond you out, keep you on this side of an ocean. A producer has never in the history of this planet been able to continue somebody's storyline past a court date. So it's just interesting to me because I remember the show having to hike his skirt up and move his little legs, and that. Is what it looks like when the actual authority walks in. And I want to say the thing I believe, which is that none of this is really a reality television story. It's a story about paperwork that happened to have a camera. Now. Three thousand miles west of that courthouse in the same years, there's a man doing something that looks like the opposite of this and is actually kind of the mirror of it. See the Judices. Hit a television show from a court. The next mofo I'm gonna talk about. He had his clients pay for a show. But that's part two, and it's a little bit of the harder one. Anyway, I love y'all. Hold on. And I'm gonna see y'all on the other coast. We're gonna talk o we we're going to California, California. And we're gonna talk about another housewife. You gall could probably already guess who it's gonna be. I don't know why I was about to say on display, on display but it's not Melissa Gorga. It's not Melissa. Each and every day, every day, every day.