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SMNTY Classics: Cyberstalking and Sextortion · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and a come to
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Stuff I'll Never Told You production of iHeartRadio. And today
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: we are bringing back the episode we did on cyberstalking
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: and sextortion.
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: Because I have seen a lot.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: Of stuff in the news lately, especially as AI proliferates
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: about how this has changed and around, like deep fakes
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: women and revenge porn, which I think we're going to
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: have to come back and talk about, but even not
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: revenge porn, and just how it's changing the pornography industry
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: and romance scamps because we've talked kind of about how
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: I have sat down with my mom and said, you
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: know what, I speak on the internet for a living.
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: AI could call you make these threats. We're using my
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: voice or something, but it is also happening in the
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: romance scam world. So I think we're gonna have to
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: come back and revisit these topics. But before we do that,
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: please enjoy this classic episode. Hey, this is Andy and Samantha.
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: I'm welcome to stef I've Never Told your protection of iHeartRadio.
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: I have a very simple question for you today, Samantha,
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: do you put tape over your webcam?
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: So I used to put post it notes over my
• 1:44
  Speaker 3: webcam the new computer I've got.
• 1:47
  Speaker 4: You actually have a little button and you could just
• 1:49
  Speaker 4: slide it over so it covers up. Oh yeah, okay, yeah,
• 1:53
  Speaker 4: so I do that.
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: This is that kind of I mean, that's nice, but
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: also very telling of our times and what we're.
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: Talking about today. Yep, I have tape over mine.
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: I didn't have it for a while because I got
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: a new laptop, but then I was researching this episode
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: and in the middle of it, I went and found tape.
• 2:14
  Speaker 4: It's in starting for sure.
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah. Yeah.
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: And with that being said, today we are talking about
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: cyber stalking and sex stortion, So trigger warning for some
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: abusive behavior, some controlling behavior and stalking and yeah, sexual
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: abuse and domestic violence.
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: I dat that in there. And this has been on
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: my mind because, as.
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: I spoken about on the show, I recently lost my
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: phone and I did Samantha Nose, I did all kinds
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: of things to try to find it. I was like
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: text this thing to my phone, and I was doing
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: the you know, Google FID on my phone, and I
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: was looking online because you know, everything was like it's
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: easy to find your lost phone, but and it would
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: say you have to install, install this before you lost it.
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: But while I was desperately searched for a way to
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: find my phone, I ran across so many of these
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: top Google search suggestions of things like how to spy
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: on your wife, how to find out if your wife
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: is cheating, so many apps to install secretly on someone's phone.
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: And this is like within the first two pages of Google.
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: When I'm like, I want to find my lost phone,
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: this is what was coming up and I have I've
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: talked about it before, I know, on an episode we
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: did with bridget about how this is a new genre
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: of horror that really freaks me out, this whole kind
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: of cnyper stalking, spying thing. There's that whole really disturbing
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: Black Mirror episode about it. For some reason, I'm reading
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: a creepy fan fiction about it that really disturbs me.
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: I wasn't and I didn't know that so where it
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: was going to go, But it did, and now I
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: can't stop reading.
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: So I don't know what do about that.
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: And then I don't know if you do this matha
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: But I talked to like the man that watches me
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: as in like in theory this like government, poor government,
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: SAP that is like, Wow, she's reading more fan fiction.
• 4:06
  Speaker 4: I did not do that.
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: You don't talk to your the poor sphy. That's society.
• 4:12
  Speaker 3: But I have a dog to talk to, soh okay
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: replaces that.
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I got yeah, I got it.
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: And then I was thinking about this today because our
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: company has some pretty big brother type policies.
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: So hello, big brother company.
• 4:26
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: I used to have a friend who worked at a
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: company in our building, and they had to put in
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: a flash drive every time when they arrived to work
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: so that the flashive would record everything they every website,
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: they did everything they did in the computer, and then
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: they would take out the flash drive and turn it
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: back in so they could look at what was on there.
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: And it's just one of those things where that could
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: be abused so easily.
• 4:51
  Speaker 4: Yeah, especially the work we do, could you imagine?
• 4:55
  Speaker 3: Oh oh lord, we just talked about the fact like
• 4:58
  Speaker 3: we had the virginity up episode, We've had organic episodes,
• 5:02
  Speaker 3: We've had Staler women who Kill episodes. Yea, all those
• 5:07
  Speaker 3: are really concerning. If you just saw like, are you
• 5:11
  Speaker 3: looking up like nothing, I'm find for QAnon all of
• 5:16
  Speaker 3: those things.
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: Right right, we would we would raise some suspicions.
• 5:20
  Speaker 3: For sure, well, I would also as a social worker
• 5:24
  Speaker 3: go into like kids sites and look to make sure
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: I can find people see if I can stop them,
• 5:28
  Speaker 3: like I have to try to hunt them down and
• 5:31
  Speaker 3: make sure they're okay. I had to go into kids
• 5:33
  Speaker 3: sites when they would post like sexual explicit stuff like
• 5:37
  Speaker 3: you have to take this down.
• 5:38
  Speaker 4: This is you know, child porn stuff like that.
• 5:41
  Speaker 3: So I, oh, god, yeah.
• 5:43
  Speaker 4: And talk about stalking stop.
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: I try not to think about it too much. And
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: I know it's like a running joke.
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: And I even texted my friend and was like, if
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: I die, you know, destroy my computer, destroying my search
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: history and work stuff aside. I think people would be
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: they would give me some wiggle room for that. But
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: even like, think the stuff I do isn't that people
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: wouldn't be surprised if the fan fiction.
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: Like no, I don't know, but I still wanted.
• 6:07
  Speaker 3: I was like, clease, it's kind of like I have
• 6:10
  Speaker 3: a setup, and likef I disappear, you go to these places,
• 6:13
  Speaker 3: take these things and get rid of those things, not
• 6:15
  Speaker 3: because or anything.
• 6:16
  Speaker 4: Bad, but I'm more embarrassed.
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: Right exactly. It's the embarrassment you're not there to defend.
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: Yourselves, That's right, that's how I feel too, and it
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: makes you sound so much shadier.
• 6:28
  Speaker 4: We're not hiding anything else.
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: No, no, definitely not.
• 6:32
  Speaker 4: So.
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: We have done past episodes on stalking. Check those out
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: if you want to learn more. We did also discuss
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: a lot of what we're going to be talking about
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: in our grooming episode and the recent episode we did
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: with bridget about online harassment. All of that's kind of
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: about play in this conversation, and then I did want
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: to put this in here. Earlier in twenty twenty one,
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: over thirty women sued the website porn Hub and their
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: parent company mind Geek for operating as a quote, classic
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: criminal enterprise and hosting and profiting from content that, according
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: to them, is non consensual that may involve child pornography,
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: sex trafficking, and rape and sexual assault. The lawsuit claims
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: that the site and the company behind it allowed for
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: the posting, incentivization, and monetization of this content. In the
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: words of one of the attorneys representing the plaintiffs, the
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: case is not about consensual porn or negligence. It's about
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: a porn company's intentional election to include in their business
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: model rape and other non consensual content. The lawsuit alleges
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: that the company purchased bolt content from sex traffickers and
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: hit it under shell corporations. Some girls report being pressured
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: by boyfriends to send videos of them undressing, which then
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: got posted. So that is also part of what we're
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: going to be talking about. And this is a complicated
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: situation that often gets oversimplified. Of course, any of this
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: content they're talking about should get taken down, and porn
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: Hub should be held accountable for the content they host.
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: But at the same time, you do get conservative groups
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: to crying porn in general, that muddy is the whole thing.
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: And we've talked about that before. You see that with
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: like qubanon and all that stuff.
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: But yeah, this is not exactly what we're talking about today,
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: but we are talking about things that allow for stuff
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: like this to happen.
• 8:15
  Speaker 3: Right, So let's get into the basics. Yes, what is
• 8:18
  Speaker 3: cyber stalking? According to Marshall, cyberstocking refers to the use
• 8:22
  Speaker 3: of the Internet, email, or other telecommunication technologies to harass
• 8:25
  Speaker 3: or stalk another person. It's not the mere annoyance of
• 8:29
  Speaker 3: an unsolicited email.
• 8:30
  Speaker 4: We get all those.
• 8:31
  Speaker 3: We know that it is methodical, deliberate, and persistent. The communication,
• 8:35
  Speaker 3: whether from someone known or unknown, do not stop even
• 8:39
  Speaker 3: after the recipient has asked the sender to cease all contacts,
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: and are often filled with inappropriate and sometimes really disturbing content.
• 8:48
  Speaker 3: Cyberstocking is an extension of the physical form of stalking.
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: Yes, and it's related to sex stortion, which is a
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: term that first started popping up in twenty ten, though
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: it may have first appeared in nineteen fifty. The DOJ
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: addressed it in twenty eleven and the FBI cautioned about
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: it in twenty twelve. So this is when someone threatens
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: to release sensitive information, images, or videos unless the target
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: sends nude pictures, performs a sexual favor, pays them some money,
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: becomes a quote, camslave, things like that, maybe a mixture
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: of all those things. Both of these cyberstocking and sextortion
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: do more directly impact girls and women. Experts estimate that
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: the number of people affected by cyberstocking is in the
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: tens of thousands, but could be in the hundreds of thousands.
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: In twenty eighteen, there were sixteen, nine hundred and seventy
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: four complaints of cyberstocking filed with the FBI. Only sixteen
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: were prosecuted. The FBI has reported to recent uptick in
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: cases that fall under federal cyberstocking laws, although that's kind
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: of complicated.
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: There's no real federal cyberstocking law. We'll get into that.
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: There are things that it falls under the head of
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: the Homeland Security investigation. Since here in Atlanta said when
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: asked about this, predators used to stop playgrounds.
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: This is the new playground, right.
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: I think one of the biggest problems that we've talked
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: about this before is that the laws cannot keep up
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: with technology. I guess something that probably can do bit.
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: So while we often think of women being the victims
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: of sextortion, men and boys are not immune. They may
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: be enticed into performing sex acts in front of webcams
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: with an attractive woman who may herself be coerced, unaware
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: they are being recorded, and they are all then threatened
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: with this release of the footage and often very often
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: shane for it and guilted into it, and this has
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: in some cases led to suicide.
• 10:41
  Speaker 4: We know some of our teen deaths because of this.
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: In some cases, male perpetrators have impersonated significant others to
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: trick women into sending them sexual videos.
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: Yes, and many perpetrators target women and girls who are
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: expiring actors and models under the guise of offering them
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: a role. Others would it as celebrities such as Justin
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: Bieber to demand at nude pictures from young girls. Sometimes
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: they edit the material to look as though they've posted
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: compromising images or videos to porn sites, so they'll make
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: it look like they did. Maybe they actually didn't, but
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: they'll send you something that makes you think that they did.
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: And many people who perpetrate these acts report that it
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: is all about power, feeling like you are controlling someone
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: and it's really heartbreaking to read, like the text exchanges
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: of you know, a young girl being like you're ruining
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: my life, please stop, and they're like no, why, really
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: really heartbreaking And yeah, as an actor, I've seen this.
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: And our agent will send out messages and be like,
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: if you get the message from this guy, he has
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: nothing to do with anything in movie or film. He's
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: just asking for pictures of people and that's just a
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: part of our business. It's like a message that goes
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: out two people in an occupation.
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: It's just odd.
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: Cyber bullying is a part of this conversation. Two and
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: some argue that cyber stocking is a form of cyber bullying.
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: So a lot of times when you look up cyberstocking,
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: you'll end up in cyber bullying websites that have kind
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: of a little section about cyber stocking.
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: I do think it is, well, it's not like new,
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: it's new.
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: We're in terms of people really trying to combat it
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: or think about how we can protect ourselves from it,
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: and how big of an issue that it is. Right,
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: So we do have some more numbers and specifics for you,
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: but first we have a quick break for a word
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: from our.
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: Sponsor, and we're back. Thank you sponsor.
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: So, just like stocking, cyber stocking is usually perpetrated by
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: someone the victim knows co workers, exes, significant others, and friends. However,
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: like I was saying before, this is still kind of new,
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: especially in terms of data collection, and so some places
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: say that kind of the opposite thing, where it's somebody
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: who has this.
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: Freedom of the internet can do it from wherever.
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: So it makes sense to me that it would be
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: someone you know, but also makes sense that it would
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: be somebody who's just looking for someone to target women
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: aged between eighteen to thirty are the most common targets.
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: Once that, he found that sex stortion in particular victimizes
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: children under eighteen at our rate of seventy one percent
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: compared to stoking. Some experts argue that because of things
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: like the lack of obstacles, instant gratification, lack of need
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: to be in the same geographic location, and difficulty to prosecute,
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: cyberstalking is more common and more attractive for perpetrators. Sextortionists
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: are almost all male, many are repeat offenders. Most do
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: not adhere to the conditions of their sex. So if
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: they say send me this and then I'll give you
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: whatever back, most of them don't. As I learned when
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: looking online about how to find a lost phone, there
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: are so many apps out there that can be used
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: to spy on people, and their functionalities are terrifying, like
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: location tracking, remote use of camera. There's also a bunch
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: of apps that quote guarantee to put a stop to
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: cyberstocking for a price, which I can't speak to whether
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: or not they work or not. But I find that
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: really infuriating that you could be in a terrifying situation
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: and it's you're desperate and you go and are like, okay,
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: one hundred dollars will just fix this, and then might
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: not fix it right.
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: And that's kind of the same thing with identity fraud,
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: when we have these major corporations who decided to take
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: advantage of it and be like, pay us a monthly
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: fee and we'll write maybe right. If not, we'll help
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: you get it back, maybe we'll try. But I think
• 14:51
  Speaker 3: that's also a thing. And I know also out there
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: within the dark web there are white knights, I believe,
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: who try to come in and infiltrate systems to let
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: people be aware. So we had that situation of the
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: dude who had a camera, a ring camera, and they
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: actually started talking to each other. He was like, hey,
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: their numbers listed on the web, they can get you
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: real quick. And they had this thing, is like, what
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: change a password right now? So there's definitely that too,
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: I think a little more rare, still just as creepy maybe,
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: but a nice way.
• 15:22
  Speaker 4: I guess.
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, okay, So speaking of creepy, imagine you have
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: a friend, our partner that knows your pen to your phone.
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: You leave the room for something, they could easily change
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: settings in your phone and saw a hidden spyware app
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: things like that. Sometimes these apps are called spouseware or stalkerware.
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: These apps are usually specifically marketed as a way to
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: track your spouse and catch some cheating like they're not
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: even hiding. Others called dual use apps are not intended
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: to be used for cyperstalking, but things like the I
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: Lost my Phone app, or apps you used to keep
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: track of where your kids are or something like find
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: my Friends can be modified to track someone without their knowledge.
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: Google and Apple claim to have consulted domestic violence groups
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: to address these concerns, but most of their advice still
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: requires that you are the verily suspicious and aware of
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: the ins and outs of technology, So you would still
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: have to have some level of I don't trust my
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: friend or spouse or whatever right, which a lot of
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: people don't necessarily have. Because when I was looking this up,
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: and I've considered myself pretty technologically savvy, I was like, wait,
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: this is terrifying, right.
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: So, one NPR survey of eighty two domestic violence shelters
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: found that eighty five percent of them had to help
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: people with whose partners used GPS to.
• 16:51
  Speaker 4: Track their movements.
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: And by the way, we've also seen cases, murder cases,
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: quick kidnapping cases, any type of cases where detectives and
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: law enforcement actually used this as well. They tracked I
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: remember the one case they tracked a watch, a fitness
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: watch for a rape case, and there was a hole
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: back and forth about is this mating people's rights? Is
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: this constitutionally okay? Yeah, but just your and I have.
• 17:16
  Speaker 4: One of these.
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: I have a fitness watch, but it definitely locates your
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: GPS and it also shows what you're doing sort of
• 17:22
  Speaker 3: kind of tailed by the monitoring, really creepy, but I
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: use it. And then seventy five percent dealt with partners
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: who spied on them with apps. And many of these
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: shelters have a digital detoc center. And if you've ever
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: seen a spy movie, you know you gotta get rid
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: of your phone. You go get it of your GPS. Yeah.
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: So a lot of these domestic violence shelters provide like
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: a what we would call like a brick phone, right, essentially,
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: all it does is call and that is it. So
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: this this NPR SETI also profiled an app called m
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: spy for about seventy dollars a month. This app instructs
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: you how to install it and then hide any trace
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: of it, even with a verified symbol next to it
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: making it look legit. It monitors text messages, call logs,
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: call recordings, pictures, videos, every website visited, every key type.
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: This allows people to figure out people's usernames and passwords.
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: It could be used to block phone numbers, further isolating
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: the victim, and location tracking all on top of that.
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: But one of the scariest things is the eavesdrop function.
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: When someone calls, whether you answer or not, the speaker
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: phone is activated and recording starts. So as someone who
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: gets like probably twenty spam calls a day, that would
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: be a lot a lot of eavesdropping that could happen
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: to me.
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: Right, So, most but not all states have laws against
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: cyber stocking, and it's recent and those that don't usually
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: they'll prosecute cyber stocking under harassment or stalking laws. There
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: isn't a federal law against cyber stocking, but there is
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: one that covers it. So so many loopholes. However, many
• 19:01
  Speaker 3: officials aren't fully up to date on the ways people
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: can be harassed and victimized using technology. We know this,
• 19:07
  Speaker 3: many of them don't even understand the technology. Many of
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: them don't believe this technology right, which makes this whole
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: thing super difficult. Many law enforcement officers don't have the resources.
• 19:18
  Speaker 4: Even though they get millions of dollars, they have lots
• 19:21
  Speaker 4: of weapons.
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: Just all that.
• 19:23
  Speaker 3: Some outlets have pointed out, the prosecution is frequently quite
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: lenient and they are even no matter what, and we've
• 19:29
  Speaker 3: seen them in way too many cases when it comes
• 19:32
  Speaker 3: to bullying. They don't even have that on record for
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: face to face bullying, so having it on internet text
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: doesn't worry, especially when you start talking about the First Amendment,
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: which is completely misinterpreted for this specifically.
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and there are so many case studies or examples
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: that were given in researching this, and I know we've
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: talked about them before, but where women would you know,
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: be like, I'm being cybersdoctor, this is what's happening to me,
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: And they would have to explain the technology, like they
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: would have to do this whole extra step.
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: And then kind of having yeah, this amused, like are
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: you sure this is a big response? Can't you just
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: delete it?
• 20:13
  Speaker 4: Yeah?
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: And this doesn't include the victim blaming that is associated
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: with all of this. So immediately, if you will have
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: a sexy picture, your credibility goes out of the window.
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So the technology available and the level of data
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: collection that happens on the Internet just at large has
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: played into these high numbers of cyberstocking that are yes,
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: continuously going up. So on top of all the things
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: we've talked about with phone, there's also cyberstalking online and
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: that can involve similar things like tracking online in stelling,
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: tracking apps on someone's laptop, and also yeah, access to cameras,
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: sending unsolicited or threatening messages, overwhelming a target of cyberstocking's
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: chat channels with messages, starting online rumors, or sharing videos
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: or pictures edited or not without consent, like revenge porn, blackmailing,
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: setting up websites that host stories that may be true
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: are not about the person breaking into online accounts to
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: pose as a person and ruin their reputation, spywear, oh,
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: and even like hidden cameras in people's homes with some
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: audio capabilities.
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: Things like that.
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: All of this usually takes place over time, and it
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: is a very very scary experience that is yes, often dismissed.
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: Cyberstalking can result and negative outcomes like trouble sleeping, hyper vigilance, nightmares,
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: high levels of stress, trouble eating, feelings of loss of
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: control and safety, feelings of helplessness, fear and isolation, things
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: like that.
• 21:41
  Speaker 4: Yeah, there's so many things.
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: So online dating has also played into this, which sucks
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: because a part of dating could be sending sexypects messages
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: or videos.
• 21:51
  Speaker 4: I've never done that. Part of this is because I
• 21:53
  Speaker 4: worked in social work. I knew what was happening.
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: But since at least ninety percent of the US is
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: fifty four million single people have tried online dating, there's
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: a lot for would be cyberstogglers to mine from. And
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: thinks to the fact we're constantly tied to our phones
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: as I am, computers and other technology. There are so
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: many avenues for us to be victimized and you can
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: turn things but depend on into sources of fear and harassment.
• 22:19
  Speaker 3: And yeah, when it's on, when they have one picture,
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: it doesn't even matter, it can be there for it's
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: there forever.
• 22:26
  Speaker 4: Like I remember having to show.
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: A kid who had been sending pics of herself to
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: a boy, which I was like, this is a huge
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: say this canna come back bite if you're not careful.
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: And also the fact that you're sending a picture of
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: yourself can actually be considered child born other story, but
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: having to show her that I could go back and
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: pull it up for our she was kind of like, oh,
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: so definitely it doesn't disappear.
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and it is really really unfortunate because we're not
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: looking to fear amonger or anything, but right just something
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: you should should be aware of. And it sucks. It
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: does because you shouldn't have to.
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: Worry about that.
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: If you're dating online and you do want to send
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: the sexy picture. It is extremely unfortunate that that is
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: something we have.
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: To worry about.
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: And yeah, a lot of people, especially people who were
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: like got the flooded of channels or whatever, they would
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: just talk about how like every notification they'd get on
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: their phone would just send this fear fear through them.
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: And it is something we depend on.
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: It is something that a lot of us use for
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: all kinds of fun things, so to have it turned
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: into that. So some experts break down cyberstalking into types.
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: One of the most common is emails cyberstocking. This can
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: involve trying to fix a relationship, start a relationship, threatening
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: or traumatizing it through unsolicited messages, sending viruses, or flooding
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: at someone's inbox. Then there's internet cyberstocking with the goal
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: of slandering are threatening the victim. This can involve breaking
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: into accounts, spoofing, sending pornographic images, and using spyware. Doxing
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: can fall under this too, posting private information, posing as
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: the victim and asking strangers for sexual activity, or building
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: entire websites, yes, with the intent of inviting strangers to
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: degrade and harass the victim. Victims have reported strangers showing
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: up at their door a place of work expecting sex.
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: In one case, over one thousand people showed up at
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: his home. But then there are computer cyberstalkers, stalkers who
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: control the victim's computer, which is.
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: Also terrifying.
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: Also terrifying, So we do have some advice, but first
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: we're going to pause for one more group brick for
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: a word term or sponsor.
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: We're back, Thank you sponsor.
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: So, if you suspect or have confirmed you are the
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: target of cyberstocking, organizations have some steps and advice to take,
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: which is further complicated because a lot of it's online.
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: So again, if you haven't already looked this up. It
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: can be something frightening or perhaps not even possible in
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: your home devices. Here's what Marshall recommends. Trust your instincts
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: and exercise caution if you have an abuser who is
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: good with technology. So if you notice things like difficulty
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: churning off phone, or if it takes longer than normal,
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: an unexplained increase in your data bill, an increase in
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: battery changage, it could be a spyware app. Experts also
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: suggest checking to see if your phone is rooted or
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: jail broken. Backing up your phone is also a good idea.
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: All of this is with a caveat that a soccer
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: abuser may be able to see what you're doing, so
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: you have to take that into account and make sure
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: you're doing what is best for you and your particular
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: situation on this scurity questions. Don't answer with something guessable,
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: answer with something weird. I've been doing this for years.
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: Works for me as far as.
• 26:06
  Speaker 4: I know right. Have a safety plan in place.
• 26:11
  Speaker 3: Organizations like RAIN or the National Sexual Assault Hotline can
• 26:14
  Speaker 3: help with this, and some have quick clothes features for laptops.
• 26:18
  Speaker 3: I know there's been a lot of features that allow
• 26:20
  Speaker 3: for that and also features.
• 26:21
  Speaker 4: I could ask for help, but it looks like you're
• 26:23
  Speaker 4: talking to a friend.
• 26:24
  Speaker 3: You can also seek out a safer computer at a
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: public place if you think yours might be compromised, and
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: this is an option for you.
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, create new email accounts.
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: Look at the settings in your phone, stuff like security, GPS,
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: changing passwords and pin numbers.
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: When I lost my phone that.
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: It was like over several days, I kept thinking of
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: other things I had to change my password on, like
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: oh yeah, that one too.
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, so yeah.
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: Use a corded phone for a more private conversation. Again,
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: if this is something you have access to, baby monitors
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: can be listened in on as well.
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: Get a newer donated phone.
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: Some crisis centers, like we said, provide these if possible.
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: Learn more about policies of agencies and companies when it
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: comes to publishing online data. We talked about options like
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: delete me in a recent episode with Bridget that can
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: help you find and delete public information. Get a private
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: mailbox for communications. Do you want to keep private and
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: covering your webcam with as any does removable tape If
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: yours doesn't have the feature that allows you to just
• 27:28
  Speaker 3: shut it off.
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: Just slide it on over.
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they also recommended things like using a gender neutral password,
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: never giving out your password. So I know a lot
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: of us are guilty of never giving out personal information
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: to a site or online entity you don't trust. And
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: if you have children, instruct them on these security measures too.
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: Don't respond to an email from an unknown person. Regularly
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: search your name to see what it comes up. That
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: takes a lot of courage, I know. But on top
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: of that, most organizations suggest keeping an incident log of
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: any communications with the cyberstalker. And yes, having these conversations
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: with children so they know how to stay safe online,
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: and something else that could help that. We talked about
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: a lot more data right now. The situation is seriously
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: understudied and misunderstood. Like as I was saying, as we
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: were going through this, I saw conflicting things all over the.
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: First Yeah, I mean, when it comes to anonymity and
• 28:26
  Speaker 3: the Internet, it gives a lot of free access and
• 28:29
  Speaker 3: stuff like swatting. That's a whole different level when you
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: come to like twitch and all those things. And yeah,
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: that's the other part is there's more and more technology,
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: things like Amazon on their Alexa do in the sidewalk
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: feature but that immediate was like nope, because it shows
• 28:42
  Speaker 3: it for some reason, wants.
• 28:43
  Speaker 4: You to share with the pay strangers, and I feel like, hey, Amazon,
• 28:48
  Speaker 4: that's dumb.
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: Dumb. Also things like Google, who have been accused repeatedly
• 28:54
  Speaker 3: of data mining, as well as having companies that.
• 28:57
  Speaker 4: Are all the time act Yeah, all the.
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: Credit card companies, all the credit overseeing companies, like they
• 29:04
  Speaker 3: get all that information and identities being sold because they
• 29:08
  Speaker 3: have features like that. We're not even talking about that
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: as part of the cyberstocking because yeah, that's easily accessible.
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: We've known for a long time. If you go to
• 29:17
  Speaker 3: white Pages and you want to pay some money, you
• 29:19
  Speaker 3: can get complete access to home phone number address.
• 29:22
  Speaker 4: You just have to pay ten dollars a subscription.
• 29:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah, which is really really absurd and quite quite alarming
• 29:29
  Speaker 3: as in fact, so that doesn't even include any of that.
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: We're talking more about the personal level. But when it
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: comes to and we've talked about this with bridget corporate
• 29:39
  Speaker 3: responsibility and no one really really actually dealing with that,
• 29:44
  Speaker 3: that's a whole different conversation.
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: It is.
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: It's another one of those things where so much of
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: the advice for giving in this is basically putting the
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: impetus on you and the responsibility on you to be
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: vigilant when you shouldn't have to be so concerned that
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: a company that you use got hacked right now, right, and.
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we shouldn't have to pay extra money for buying
• 30:09
  Speaker 3: a service that should have been already included in the
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: service that we're paying for right right.
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: Just we'll salt you just a little.
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: Well.
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: Listeners, As always, we would love to hear from you.
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: You can email us that Stephania mom Steff at iheartmia
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: dot com. You can find us on Instagram at steff
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: I Never Told You or on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast.
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: Thanks as always to our super producer Christina.
• 30:35
  Speaker 4: Thank you.
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: Thanks to you for listening. Stephan Never Told You. The
• 30:38
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• 30:41
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• 30:43
  Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.