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Interview with a Forest Witch · River City Mystery - Investigating mysteries in southern Indiana, southern Illinois, and western Kentucky

• 0:00
  Speaker: Years ago, we would make like a pilgrimage to a sacred tree, and
• 0:04
  Speaker: we would do our ritual there right at that space.
• 0:07
  Speaker: And that whole space has this like huge energy about it.
• 0:11
  Speaker: And then slowly people are like, oh, I love this energy.
• 0:16
  Speaker: I just want to take this little bit of bark with me so I can
• 0:19
  Speaker: feel this at home.
• 0:21
  Speaker: And that's the exact opposite of what animism calls us to do.
• 0:26
  Speaker: Animism calls us, you go and you
• 0:28
  Speaker: experience that while you're
• 0:30
  Speaker: there, but it's not yours to
• 0:32
  Speaker: possess.
• 0:32
  Speaker: Now you've taken it away from its part.
• 0:35
  Speaker: You've taken it away from that.
• 0:36
  Speaker: So now it's just become a small part where it was a whole.
• 0:40
  Speaker: And so I try to do whatever I
• 0:41
  Speaker: can in my practice to replicate
• 0:44
  Speaker: that and, and repeat that every
• 0:46
  Speaker: day that I'm consciously
• 0:48
  Speaker: thinking about that because I
• 0:49
  Speaker: feel it's very important, you
• 0:51
  Speaker: know, I mean, if you've ever
• 0:52
  Speaker: been in the woods, there is a
• 0:54
  Speaker: feeling that you get there that
• 0:55
  Speaker: you can never bring home with
• 0:56
  Speaker: you.
• 1:08
  Speaker: You're listening to River City
• 1:09
  Speaker: Mystery, a podcast that delves
• 1:11
  Speaker: into the Evansville and
• 1:12
  Speaker: surrounding Tri-State area's
• 1:13
  Speaker: mysteries, including unsolved
• 1:15
  Speaker: crimes, murders and
• 1:16
  Speaker: disappearances a show that isn't
• 1:18
  Speaker: afraid to jump down the rabbit
• 1:19
  Speaker: hole to investigate reports of
• 1:20
  Speaker: local hauntings, sightings of
• 1:22
  Speaker: UAPs and cryptids, among other
• 1:24
  Speaker: paranormal phenomena.
• 1:25
  Speaker: With your host law office worker by day.
• 1:28
  Speaker: Insomniac researcher of the unknown by night Matt Deig.
• 1:36
  Speaker: Welcome to episode eighteen.
• 1:38
  Speaker: My interview with Evansville's Forest, which in all honesty, I
• 1:43
  Speaker: didn't even know that a forest, which was a thing until Crystal
• 1:46
  Speaker: Foltz reached out to me recently and said, hey, I'm a witch and
• 1:50
  Speaker: I'd like to talk to you.
• 1:51
  Speaker: So I've been really excited to
• 1:53
  Speaker: talk to Crystal ever since I got
• 1:54
  Speaker: that email.
• 1:55
  Speaker: And not only is she a witch, but she has.
• 1:59
  Speaker: She brings a lot of other things
• 2:00
  Speaker: to this conversation that I
• 2:01
  Speaker: think you're gonna find
• 2:02
  Speaker: interesting.
• 2:03
  Speaker: She's been a practicing witch
• 2:04
  Speaker: since the nineteen nineties, and
• 2:06
  Speaker: her practice is steeped in
• 2:07
  Speaker: animism and Kentucky folklore
• 2:09
  Speaker: and superstition.
• 2:10
  Speaker: And she's a co-chair of Three Corners Pagan Circle, which they
• 2:15
  Speaker: serve witches in the Illinois, Indiana and Kentucky area.
• 2:19
  Speaker: But not only does she do those
• 2:21
  Speaker: sorts of things that are
• 2:22
  Speaker: witchcraft related, she's also
• 2:24
  Speaker: involved with she's worked with
• 2:26
  Speaker: several paranormal investigation
• 2:28
  Speaker: teams.
• 2:29
  Speaker: She's the co-chair of the
• 2:30
  Speaker: Southern Indiana Paranormal
• 2:31
  Speaker: Investigators.
• 2:33
  Speaker: So in this conversation, we talk
• 2:34
  Speaker: about several of those
• 2:35
  Speaker: investigations.
• 2:36
  Speaker: And that's pretty fascinating.
• 2:38
  Speaker: She also hasn't been involved in as a psychic consultant in
• 2:42
  Speaker: several search and rescues.
• 2:44
  Speaker: So that's really interesting to hear about some of those
• 2:46
  Speaker: experiences as well.
• 2:47
  Speaker: Krystal kind of, um, she brings
• 2:49
  Speaker: a back porch approach to
• 2:50
  Speaker: paranormal encounters.
• 2:52
  Speaker: She's not big into the woo woo stuff.
• 2:54
  Speaker: Likes to bring in common sense.
• 2:56
  Speaker: And I think you're going to get a sense of that.
• 2:58
  Speaker: You probably from the intro, you probably got that sense that
• 3:00
  Speaker: she's not somebody you might have imagined a, which being
• 3:04
  Speaker: she's very down to earth.
• 3:06
  Speaker: And I think you're going to enjoy this interview.
• 3:08
  Speaker: So this is my interview with
• 3:10
  Speaker: Crystal Foltz Evansville's
• 3:12
  Speaker: forest, which.
• 3:15
  Speaker: All right.
• 3:16
  Speaker: Ever since you reached out to me, I've been really excited to
• 3:18
  Speaker: talk to you.
• 3:19
  Speaker: I've never normally, if I say, you know this, I get slapped in
• 3:22
  Speaker: the face, but I'm actually.
• 3:23
  Speaker: You're an actual witch, right?
• 3:25
  Speaker: Like, what does it mean to be a witch?
• 3:27
  Speaker: It's very, very broad.
• 3:29
  Speaker: So I started practicing back in the early nineties.
• 3:33
  Speaker: And back then, most of the
• 3:34
  Speaker: information that we found, um,
• 3:37
  Speaker: random books from like Gerald
• 3:39
  Speaker: Gardner and Raymond Buckland,
• 3:41
  Speaker: Scott Cunningham, they were like
• 3:43
  Speaker: the big writers back then, but
• 3:45
  Speaker: it still, you didn't find like
• 3:47
  Speaker: huge sections in bookstores with
• 3:49
  Speaker: these books.
• 3:50
  Speaker: A lot of times you had to, to
• 3:52
  Speaker: ask for them or they would
• 3:54
  Speaker: fight.
• 3:55
  Speaker: You could find them in the back of like, mail order catalogs,
• 3:57
  Speaker: like old comic books, right?
• 3:59
  Speaker: Things like that.
• 4:00
  Speaker: Right.
• 4:00
  Speaker: So it really wasn't something that you saw, um, a lot that you
• 4:04
  Speaker: had access to that information.
• 4:07
  Speaker: You know, you got to think like in the nineties, that's when the
• 4:10
  Speaker: craft came out.
• 4:11
  Speaker: So it was really starting to
• 4:13
  Speaker: become, um, more popular and
• 4:15
  Speaker: mainstream.
• 4:17
  Speaker: But even then in your personal life, a lot of people had to
• 4:21
  Speaker: stay hidden due to work, due to, um, if you were divorced, going
• 4:26
  Speaker: through a divorce, your husband could have used that against you
• 4:30
  Speaker: in the divorce proceedings.
• 4:32
  Speaker: And like, even now, there's still people who are not safe in
• 4:35
  Speaker: their, in their workplace.
• 4:37
  Speaker: So for a witch being a witch, that means a lot of different
• 4:41
  Speaker: things to a lot of people because not everyone can
• 4:43
  Speaker: practice the same way.
• 4:46
  Speaker: You know, it really just depends on what their situation is.
• 4:50
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 4:51
  Speaker: Now, I went to your Now you're one of the four witches who run
• 4:56
  Speaker: the Three Corners pagan circle.
• 4:58
  Speaker: And I was looking into your bio there.
• 5:01
  Speaker: And you're known as the Forest Witch, which, you know, has its
• 5:06
  Speaker: own little meanings.
• 5:07
  Speaker: And then there's the shamanic
• 5:08
  Speaker: witch and a hearth witch and the
• 5:12
  Speaker: heathen witch.
• 5:12
  Speaker: So what exactly does it mean to be the forest witch?
• 5:15
  Speaker: What does that how does that differentiate you from any other
• 5:17
  Speaker: type of witch?
• 5:18
  Speaker: Well, again, witchcraft is it's
• 5:22
  Speaker: such a huge space to practice
• 5:24
  Speaker: inside of.
• 5:25
  Speaker: And back in the early days, the
• 5:28
  Speaker: only way you could really get
• 5:29
  Speaker: into witchcraft is if you knew
• 5:31
  Speaker: someone else who was into
• 5:33
  Speaker: witchcraft.
• 5:34
  Speaker: Like people would practice a little bit on their own.
• 5:38
  Speaker: But as for like organized witchcraft, you really had to
• 5:42
  Speaker: know someone who was in.
• 5:43
  Speaker: And part of that was Wicca when
• 5:46
  Speaker: it first became popular over
• 5:47
  Speaker: here.
• 5:48
  Speaker: Um, like in the sixties.
• 5:50
  Speaker: Uh, Raymond Buckland.
• 5:52
  Speaker: He brought it over after studying under Gerald Gardner.
• 5:55
  Speaker: And Wicca is more of a religion.
• 5:59
  Speaker: It has tenets.
• 6:00
  Speaker: It has specifics in the rituals.
• 6:02
  Speaker: And for most people who are
• 6:04
  Speaker: coming out of Abrahamic religion
• 6:08
  Speaker: or, you know, like the
• 6:10
  Speaker: Protestant church, the Catholic
• 6:11
  Speaker: Church, they like coming into a
• 6:13
  Speaker: space that still feels like it
• 6:15
  Speaker: has a ritual and it has a sacred
• 6:17
  Speaker: space.
• 6:18
  Speaker: So for those people just coming into witchcraft, stepping into
• 6:23
  Speaker: Wicca makes a lot of sense.
• 6:25
  Speaker: They can still feel kind of
• 6:26
  Speaker: comfortable inside those
• 6:27
  Speaker: boundaries.
• 6:28
  Speaker: Okay.
• 6:29
  Speaker: The witchcraft that I grew up with was not Wicca.
• 6:33
  Speaker: It was very much steeped in folklore and superstition.
• 6:37
  Speaker: And you didn't really call yourself a witch either.
• 6:40
  Speaker: That wasn't something that
• 6:41
  Speaker: anyone would have wanted to be
• 6:43
  Speaker: called.
• 6:43
  Speaker: Well, that's interesting, you know, you see.
• 6:45
  Speaker: Oh, yeah.
• 6:45
  Speaker: Definitely.
• 6:46
  Speaker: You know, there's in the witchcraft community.
• 6:50
  Speaker: There are a lot of people who
• 6:51
  Speaker: feel they can't really claim
• 6:54
  Speaker: witch.
• 6:55
  Speaker: If they don't have a lineage, okay, or they don't, they feel
• 6:59
  Speaker: like maybe somewhat ostracized, or they don't feel they're as
• 7:02
  Speaker: powerful because they don't come from a long line of witches.
• 7:05
  Speaker: You'll see this often where someone will be like, oh, well,
• 7:08
  Speaker: my grandmother used to do this, or my aunt used to do that.
• 7:11
  Speaker: She was practicing witchcraft.
• 7:13
  Speaker: And it's like, no, they actually
• 7:14
  Speaker: they weren't practicing
• 7:15
  Speaker: witchcraft.
• 7:16
  Speaker: They're practicing what we do in modern times as witchcraft.
• 7:21
  Speaker: But they weren't witches.
• 7:23
  Speaker: They didn't call themselves witches.
• 7:25
  Speaker: Does that make sense?
• 7:25
  Speaker: That does make sense.
• 7:26
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 7:26
  Speaker: So, you know, like some of the things, you know, the the
• 7:30
  Speaker: folklore and superstition.
• 7:31
  Speaker: And this isn't just like the
• 7:32
  Speaker: hillbilly Kentucky folklore and
• 7:34
  Speaker: superstition.
• 7:35
  Speaker: You know, the Scots-Irish have their own.
• 7:37
  Speaker: The Germans have their own, the Russians have their own.
• 7:40
  Speaker: And they all have these things that they did.
• 7:42
  Speaker: And it was everyday practice.
• 7:43
  Speaker: And they still felt they were
• 7:45
  Speaker: Christians and they still did
• 7:47
  Speaker: the church and the community
• 7:49
  Speaker: circled around whatever religion
• 7:51
  Speaker: they were.
• 7:51
  Speaker: They were in.
• 7:53
  Speaker: But they practiced these little
• 7:55
  Speaker: things every day of folklore and
• 7:57
  Speaker: superstition.
• 7:58
  Speaker: But they wouldn't have called themselves a witch.
• 8:00
  Speaker: Okay, that makes sense.
• 8:01
  Speaker: So it's more of a practice.
• 8:03
  Speaker: It's almost like a Christian who
• 8:05
  Speaker: is I mean, it's like a metaphor,
• 8:06
  Speaker: but like a Christian who is, uh,
• 8:08
  Speaker: meditating.
• 8:09
  Speaker: You're practicing meditation, but you're not doing some other
• 8:12
  Speaker: religion or something.
• 8:13
  Speaker: You're just kind of doing this practice.
• 8:15
  Speaker: That's not a religion necessarily.
• 8:18
  Speaker: Exactly.
• 8:19
  Speaker: Witchcraft is not a religion.
• 8:21
  Speaker: Wicca is one of the religions
• 8:23
  Speaker: inside of witchcraft, or Wicca
• 8:25
  Speaker: has tenants and they have
• 8:26
  Speaker: specific rituals.
• 8:27
  Speaker: They have an order of sorts.
• 8:29
  Speaker: Okay.
• 8:29
  Speaker: Um, up until Scott Cunningham and Scott Cunningham was one of
• 8:33
  Speaker: the first that I remember, um, he was a prolific writer and
• 8:37
  Speaker: speaker and one of the kindest souls and, and he really started
• 8:42
  Speaker: encouraging solitary Wicca.
• 8:45
  Speaker: So a lot of people, you know, in the nineties especially that's I
• 8:48
  Speaker: know more about that because that's when I was, you know,
• 8:50
  Speaker: kind of coming up.
• 8:51
  Speaker: I was a teenager in the early nineties.
• 8:53
  Speaker: And so I was kind of coming of
• 8:54
  Speaker: age and really starting to get
• 8:55
  Speaker: into this.
• 8:56
  Speaker: And he was one of the first that really said, it's okay.
• 9:00
  Speaker: Like you don't have to come from a long line of witches.
• 9:03
  Speaker: You don't have to have all of this history.
• 9:05
  Speaker: Like you can be the first, you
• 9:07
  Speaker: can start practicing on your
• 9:08
  Speaker: own.
• 9:08
  Speaker: And he just kind of laid out a
• 9:11
  Speaker: plan like, this is what candle
• 9:13
  Speaker: magic is.
• 9:13
  Speaker: This is what you use these colors for.
• 9:15
  Speaker: And so he really ushered in this new wave of witchcraft with
• 9:21
  Speaker: women my age.
• 9:22
  Speaker: You know, I'm almost fifty now
• 9:24
  Speaker: and there are still a lot of
• 9:25
  Speaker: women my age, you know, who
• 9:27
  Speaker: either practice in the closet or
• 9:31
  Speaker: they're just now coming out and
• 9:32
  Speaker: people see this as like, you
• 9:33
  Speaker: know, this, all of these women
• 9:35
  Speaker: in their forties and 50s are
• 9:36
  Speaker: suddenly just started doing
• 9:37
  Speaker: witchcraft.
• 9:38
  Speaker: And really, it's not they've always been doing it, but it was
• 9:42
  Speaker: these young girls now in their their twenties and 30s who are
• 9:46
  Speaker: saying we're going to be who we are and practice who what we
• 9:49
  Speaker: want to practice.
• 9:50
  Speaker: We don't care what social or what society tells us that we
• 9:55
  Speaker: have to be.
• 9:56
  Speaker: We don't have to be Christians.
• 9:57
  Speaker: We don't have to be wrapped up in that.
• 9:59
  Speaker: We're going to be open and out practicing witches.
• 10:02
  Speaker: And that really gave a lot of encouragement and courage behind
• 10:07
  Speaker: these older women to start coming out and practicing.
• 10:10
  Speaker: What are some benefits of, of joining witchcraft?
• 10:14
  Speaker: Like what, what are some benefits that someone might have
• 10:17
  Speaker: who's just now getting into it?
• 10:19
  Speaker: I think they, I think they find a good sense of community.
• 10:22
  Speaker: Mhm.
• 10:23
  Speaker: Um, a lot of people who are in
• 10:26
  Speaker: the witchcraft movement today
• 10:28
  Speaker: are coming from ostracized
• 10:30
  Speaker: paths, you know, and be that
• 10:32
  Speaker: your, your gender, your
• 10:35
  Speaker: sexuality, how you relate to the
• 10:38
  Speaker: world.
• 10:39
  Speaker: And they're finding this sense
• 10:40
  Speaker: of community there that you
• 10:42
  Speaker: don't often with without
• 10:44
  Speaker: judgment.
• 10:44
  Speaker: Okay.
• 10:45
  Speaker: So it's a very open type community.
• 10:47
  Speaker: You have people from all different sorts.
• 10:49
  Speaker: Coming in, I assume.
• 10:50
  Speaker: Oh, yeah.
• 10:51
  Speaker: Totally.
• 10:53
  Speaker: So you had mentioned candle magic and things like that.
• 10:55
  Speaker: So are you.
• 10:56
  Speaker: Do you practice magic?
• 10:57
  Speaker: And like, how does that work?
• 11:00
  Speaker: There's magic and then there's practicing the work.
• 11:03
  Speaker: You know what I mean?
• 11:05
  Speaker: So in candle magic, like, say you would.
• 11:08
  Speaker: Um, it varies.
• 11:10
  Speaker: You may set an intention of what you want to happen and you light
• 11:13
  Speaker: the candle and the candle burns down to a certain point.
• 11:18
  Speaker: Or you maybe you light the
• 11:20
  Speaker: candle every day for seven days
• 11:22
  Speaker: to help your intention follow
• 11:25
  Speaker: through.
• 11:26
  Speaker: And you might use specific colors depending on what you
• 11:30
  Speaker: want to happen.
• 11:31
  Speaker: Like for money, you would often use a green candle for love.
• 11:35
  Speaker: You'd use a pink candle.
• 11:37
  Speaker: Okay, um, but that's one way of doing candle magic.
• 11:41
  Speaker: But when you look at the like really the essence of candle
• 11:46
  Speaker: magic, it's the fire.
• 11:48
  Speaker: Like that's what you're working with.
• 11:50
  Speaker: You're working with the fire, you're identifying what parts,
• 11:54
  Speaker: uh, the element of fire that you need to work with.
• 11:57
  Speaker: You're feeding the fire.
• 11:59
  Speaker: The fire is, is feeding your magic.
• 12:02
  Speaker: And that's what brings it to fruition.
• 12:04
  Speaker: The witchcraft is all inside of you.
• 12:07
  Speaker: So these tools help give you a focus.
• 12:11
  Speaker: The fire isn't actually doing anything.
• 12:13
  Speaker: It's your relationship with what that fire means.
• 12:17
  Speaker: An example would be I'll give you an example about myself.
• 12:19
  Speaker: So I drown when I was nineteen in Lake Michigan, up by Chicago.
• 12:24
  Speaker: And so water and I don't always work well together.
• 12:26
  Speaker: That's not a natural element that I want to work with.
• 12:30
  Speaker: It's not there's nothing there that I feel attracted to.
• 12:33
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 12:34
  Speaker: So I can imagine.
• 12:34
  Speaker: So sometimes I have to like step
• 12:37
  Speaker: outside of myself and find a way
• 12:40
  Speaker: to work with that element,
• 12:42
  Speaker: because what it does is it
• 12:44
  Speaker: strengthens the rest of my
• 12:46
  Speaker: practice.
• 12:47
  Speaker: It forces you to get into a
• 12:49
  Speaker: space that's uncomfortable so
• 12:50
  Speaker: that you learn more about
• 12:51
  Speaker: yourself.
• 12:53
  Speaker: Is there such a thing as dark magic or good magic?
• 12:57
  Speaker: Bad magic or.
• 12:58
  Speaker: Oh, yeah.
• 12:59
  Speaker: Totally.
• 13:00
  Speaker: You know.
• 13:00
  Speaker: So, I mean, are there factions of witchcraft where someone
• 13:04
  Speaker: might be in a group of witches who only do good things, and
• 13:09
  Speaker: others like darker groups or covens or whatever there?
• 13:13
  Speaker: Oh, yeah.
• 13:13
  Speaker: Absolutely.
• 13:14
  Speaker: Absolutely.
• 13:16
  Speaker: I think that when you, when you
• 13:17
  Speaker: look at it, what we consider
• 13:20
  Speaker: dark isn't always necessarily
• 13:22
  Speaker: dark, right?
• 13:24
  Speaker: So I'll give you an example.
• 13:27
  Speaker: So I lead a social justice group.
• 13:30
  Speaker: Okay.
• 13:31
  Speaker: And so our focus, our entire focus is how do we help Move and
• 13:38
  Speaker: shift energy to help protect people that need protecting, to
• 13:42
  Speaker: help stop people from doing things that are hurting others.
• 13:47
  Speaker: And so what you're looking to restore is a balance, right?
• 13:51
  Speaker: So if someone keyed your car, you wouldn't put a curse on them
• 13:57
  Speaker: to kill them.
• 13:58
  Speaker: You might give them a flat tire later.
• 14:01
  Speaker: Like that's how that's how that balance would balance out.
• 14:03
  Speaker: Right?
• 14:05
  Speaker: Right.
• 14:05
  Speaker: And so you're looking for an eye for an eye sort of a situation.
• 14:07
  Speaker: You're looking to restore a balance.
• 14:09
  Speaker: And that's just not from, you know, like modern witchcraft.
• 14:13
  Speaker: I mean, that goes back to the very beginnings of jinxing and
• 14:17
  Speaker: cursing and hexing.
• 14:20
  Speaker: You know, there's three different types when you're
• 14:22
  Speaker: working with darker magic and they call it darker magic.
• 14:26
  Speaker: You know, we have this obsession with light and dark and what
• 14:28
  Speaker: that means and yada, yada.
• 14:30
  Speaker: But you know, it's, it's not to me, this is no different Then a
• 14:37
  Speaker: group of people sitting in church and praying that
• 14:42
  Speaker: lawmakers pass a law that prevents same sex marriage.
• 14:48
  Speaker: Okay, that's no different in my eyes because that's, you know,
• 14:53
  Speaker: affecting people in a bad way.
• 14:57
  Speaker: That's no different than me saying, what are we going to do
• 15:01
  Speaker: to stop these lawmakers from passing that law?
• 15:05
  Speaker: You know, it's subjective.
• 15:06
  Speaker: It's just like the mechanism is different for witchcraft versus
• 15:09
  Speaker: like a Christian who's praying you guys might do, you know, a
• 15:13
  Speaker: ritual of some sort versus praying, you know?
• 15:16
  Speaker: I mean, I'm vegan, like I'm not
• 15:17
  Speaker: out sacrificing animals or
• 15:18
  Speaker: anything.
• 15:19
  Speaker: Like half the time I don't cut
• 15:21
  Speaker: down any of the plants that I
• 15:22
  Speaker: work with because I feel guilty
• 15:23
  Speaker: about it.
• 15:24
  Speaker: You know, like, I'll go work
• 15:25
  Speaker: wherever they are because I
• 15:26
  Speaker: don't want that on my
• 15:27
  Speaker: conscience.
• 15:29
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 15:29
  Speaker: Are there, uh, is animal
• 15:31
  Speaker: sacrifice something that some
• 15:33
  Speaker: people do?
• 15:33
  Speaker: Some people.
• 15:34
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 15:34
  Speaker: Depending on.
• 15:35
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 15:35
  Speaker: But that's across all.
• 15:38
  Speaker: You know, if you look at.
• 15:40
  Speaker: Well I mean, golly, if you look in in voodoo, right.
• 15:43
  Speaker: Maybe Santeria.
• 15:45
  Speaker: I'm not as familiar with those.
• 15:47
  Speaker: But yeah, there are there are different groups that do that
• 15:51
  Speaker: that still practice sacrifice.
• 15:53
  Speaker: And it's protected under law
• 15:54
  Speaker: under their, um, religious
• 15:57
  Speaker: rights.
• 15:58
  Speaker: And so my understanding is that
• 16:00
  Speaker: there are all kinds of odd
• 16:01
  Speaker: potions and things like that,
• 16:03
  Speaker: like bat spit and bizarre
• 16:05
  Speaker: things.
• 16:05
  Speaker: Where do, where do witches is there like a witch store or
• 16:09
  Speaker: where do they get these things?
• 16:11
  Speaker: Well, now you're going to get me started on mass consumerism and
• 16:15
  Speaker: the unethical labor standards.
• 16:19
  Speaker: How does that tie in with, um, which, like, potion stuff?
• 16:22
  Speaker: I'm sure there's a tie in, but there it is.
• 16:25
  Speaker: So, um, yes, there are witchcraft stores and yes, they
• 16:29
  Speaker: sell herbs and they sell crystals and they sell Oh,
• 16:33
  Speaker: knives and bells and charms and books and candles and all these
• 16:36
  Speaker: things that you would need.
• 16:37
  Speaker: Right.
• 16:38
  Speaker: Okay.
• 16:39
  Speaker: Some which is purchased their items there.
• 16:41
  Speaker: Others purchase from people they know, a lot of which is make
• 16:45
  Speaker: their own tools.
• 16:46
  Speaker: Part of me being a force, which
• 16:48
  Speaker: is that I scavenge a lot of what
• 16:50
  Speaker: I use.
• 16:51
  Speaker: So I'll find it out in the woods
• 16:53
  Speaker: and or I will do my practice in
• 16:55
  Speaker: the woods.
• 16:56
  Speaker: And that goes into the mass
• 16:57
  Speaker: consumerism, you know, like I.
• 16:59
  Speaker: And I'm an old witch, so I know
• 17:00
  Speaker: I'm going to sound like an old
• 17:01
  Speaker: witch when I say this, but back
• 17:03
  Speaker: in my day, crystals and stones
• 17:06
  Speaker: were not really a big deal in
• 17:08
  Speaker: witchcraft.
• 17:09
  Speaker: Every once in a while you might have one.
• 17:10
  Speaker: It might be something, you know, like a gift.
• 17:13
  Speaker: Or you might find this one
• 17:14
  Speaker: special one that you really,
• 17:15
  Speaker: really like, but not like it is
• 17:17
  Speaker: now.
• 17:18
  Speaker: If you go on on TikTok and
• 17:20
  Speaker: Facebook and you look at most
• 17:21
  Speaker: witchcraft stores and, and I
• 17:23
  Speaker: travel all over the place, you
• 17:24
  Speaker: know, I go to Missouri, I go all
• 17:26
  Speaker: up northern Indiana, Kentucky,
• 17:27
  Speaker: Tennessee, Illinois, and you
• 17:30
  Speaker: walk in witchcraft stores, and
• 17:32
  Speaker: quite a few of them will have a
• 17:34
  Speaker: huge section of stones in
• 17:38
  Speaker: various shapes and various
• 17:39
  Speaker: sizes.
• 17:40
  Speaker: And, you know, you use this stone for love.
• 17:44
  Speaker: You use this stone to ward off bad energy.
• 17:47
  Speaker: You use this stone, you know, for money, right?
• 17:51
  Speaker: They're all for something, right?
• 17:53
  Speaker: But when you look at how those stones are harvested, it makes
• 17:56
  Speaker: you start to think about the tools that you use and where
• 17:59
  Speaker: they come from, because most of them are are mined in foreign
• 18:04
  Speaker: countries using child labor.
• 18:07
  Speaker: It pollutes their environment.
• 18:09
  Speaker: It pollutes their water, these communities.
• 18:13
  Speaker: And so if you take a tool like that, and then you go to use it
• 18:16
  Speaker: in your practice, and some people believe it doesn't matter
• 18:19
  Speaker: how it came to be.
• 18:22
  Speaker: Once you get it, you can cleanse
• 18:23
  Speaker: it and then it's fine and you
• 18:26
  Speaker: can use it for whatever you
• 18:27
  Speaker: want.
• 18:27
  Speaker: In my practice, I believe that
• 18:30
  Speaker: how that came to be, how it was
• 18:33
  Speaker: mined.
• 18:33
  Speaker: The hands that touched it before I got it.
• 18:36
  Speaker: That can affect how I work with it.
• 18:39
  Speaker: Okay, so for me, I would rather
• 18:40
  Speaker: just go out in the woods, use
• 18:43
  Speaker: what I have out there, and then
• 18:45
  Speaker: I don't have any of that
• 18:46
  Speaker: weighing down on not just my
• 18:49
  Speaker: conscious but on my practice,
• 18:50
  Speaker: you know, and what I'm trying to
• 18:52
  Speaker: accomplish.
• 18:52
  Speaker: I don't have all that baggage that came along with it.
• 18:55
  Speaker: Does that make sense?
• 18:57
  Speaker: It does make sense.
• 18:57
  Speaker: And I can see how you tie in
• 18:58
  Speaker: consumerism because, well,
• 19:00
  Speaker: sticks don't sell for much
• 19:02
  Speaker: money, but stones from foreign
• 19:04
  Speaker: places do.
• 19:05
  Speaker: So the the stores don't want to have a. Everyone going out to
• 19:09
  Speaker: the forest getting free stuff is what I'm guessing.
• 19:12
  Speaker: But if you can get to the same
• 19:14
  Speaker: end by doing those sorts of
• 19:15
  Speaker: things, what's the point of
• 19:17
  Speaker: buying an expensive crystal or,
• 19:18
  Speaker: you know, supporting those sorts
• 19:19
  Speaker: of things?
• 19:20
  Speaker: But yeah, I certainly understand, you know, I really,
• 19:22
  Speaker: I don't have any issue with, um, witches having their own stores
• 19:27
  Speaker: and selling items.
• 19:29
  Speaker: I don't feel that way at all
• 19:30
  Speaker: that everything is protected and
• 19:32
  Speaker: nothing should have a money
• 19:33
  Speaker: exchange or an energy exchange
• 19:35
  Speaker: with it.
• 19:36
  Speaker: I don't believe that at all.
• 19:37
  Speaker: I have zero issues buying from
• 19:39
  Speaker: quality craftspeople who I know
• 19:41
  Speaker: have like made this product
• 19:43
  Speaker: right?
• 19:44
  Speaker: It's when you go to Joann's and you see shelves of stones and
• 19:49
  Speaker: then you go to Walmart and you see shelves of stones, and you
• 19:52
  Speaker: go to the mall and you see shelves of stones where you see
• 19:55
  Speaker: like sacred white sage, not knowing where it came from.
• 19:58
  Speaker: You have to know that the way they were collected can't always
• 20:02
  Speaker: align with your practice.
• 20:04
  Speaker: So you just avoid them.
• 20:05
  Speaker: Learn to go out, go out with
• 20:06
  Speaker: someone and learn how to walk
• 20:08
  Speaker: the fields and find your own
• 20:09
  Speaker: stones.
• 20:10
  Speaker: Find them in the ground.
• 20:11
  Speaker: You know you're not going to mine them and they're all there.
• 20:14
  Speaker: Yeah, as a matter of fact, you
• 20:15
  Speaker: say in your bio here on the, uh,
• 20:17
  Speaker: the three corners pagan circle
• 20:18
  Speaker: that you carry a poke of rusty
• 20:20
  Speaker: nails and poison ivy, and you
• 20:22
  Speaker: have an affinity for pocket
• 20:23
  Speaker: knives.
• 20:24
  Speaker: I do, I do, I've got to ask.
• 20:26
  Speaker: I saw that and I'm like, I have to ask her.
• 20:28
  Speaker: What?
• 20:28
  Speaker: Why do you carry rusty nails and poison ivy?
• 20:31
  Speaker: Oh, that's just part of my practice.
• 20:33
  Speaker: You know, like when I say that, then people know that I walk.
• 20:37
  Speaker: Walk what they call, you know, a left handed path.
• 20:39
  Speaker: So a poker.
• 20:41
  Speaker: Rusty nails and poison ivy are
• 20:44
  Speaker: something that, um, someone who
• 20:46
  Speaker: does jinx hexes and curses would
• 20:49
  Speaker: carry.
• 20:50
  Speaker: Oh, most most people who do what
• 20:53
  Speaker: we call light and love magic,
• 20:54
  Speaker: they wouldn't be carrying those
• 20:56
  Speaker: things.
• 20:56
  Speaker: You know, that's a, it's a very specific item for a specific
• 20:59
  Speaker: type of practice.
• 21:01
  Speaker: So how often do you do like a heavy.
• 21:03
  Speaker: So what would qualify someone
• 21:05
  Speaker: to, to receive, uh, be on the,
• 21:07
  Speaker: the, the wrong end of a hex or a
• 21:09
  Speaker: curse as far as you're
• 21:11
  Speaker: concerned.
• 21:11
  Speaker: Like is someone who's a bad
• 21:14
  Speaker: customer service experience or
• 21:16
  Speaker: know, like, what's the standard
• 21:18
  Speaker: for someone to be cursed in your
• 21:20
  Speaker: opinion?
• 21:21
  Speaker: Oh, I mean, like someone who starts wars for no reason.
• 21:27
  Speaker: Oh, like big picture stuff.
• 21:29
  Speaker: Oh, yeah, it's big stuff.
• 21:30
  Speaker: It's not petty stuff.
• 21:31
  Speaker: Yeah, I got thick skin.
• 21:33
  Speaker: I got thick skin.
• 21:34
  Speaker: I grew up with all brothers on a farm in Kentucky.
• 21:36
  Speaker: I got thick skin.
• 21:37
  Speaker: Most of that stuff, I don't care.
• 21:40
  Speaker: Yeah, that rolls off.
• 21:40
  Speaker: So do you ever curse people in your personal life, or is it
• 21:44
  Speaker: just all like people you know?
• 21:46
  Speaker: Big picture, big picture stuff.
• 21:48
  Speaker: It's all social justice work now.
• 21:50
  Speaker: Well, I say that, but you know, like if I'm riding down the road
• 21:54
  Speaker: and it's snowy outside and there's ice all over the road
• 21:58
  Speaker: and some guys right up on my butt and I'll say, you know
• 22:02
  Speaker: what, we're going to get there when I decide that we're going
• 22:04
  Speaker: to get there, not when you decide we're going to get there.
• 22:07
  Speaker: Right?
• 22:08
  Speaker: And, you know, some people would consider that a jinx, you know,
• 22:12
  Speaker: because now I've affected how how this is going to go for him.
• 22:15
  Speaker: You know, I've put that out there.
• 22:17
  Speaker: I've said it and I've let them
• 22:18
  Speaker: know this is how it's going to
• 22:19
  Speaker: happen.
• 22:20
  Speaker: So yeah, I have done that.
• 22:21
  Speaker: I won't lie.
• 22:24
  Speaker: it would be.
• 22:24
  Speaker: It would be tempting.
• 22:25
  Speaker: I'd probably throw more curses than I'd like to admit.
• 22:29
  Speaker: Uh, just.
• 22:30
  Speaker: Yeah, without getting into the
• 22:31
  Speaker: details, but, um, I this is just
• 22:34
  Speaker: fascinating.
• 22:35
  Speaker: I could probably talk to you
• 22:36
  Speaker: forever about this stuff now,
• 22:37
  Speaker: but you're also connected to the
• 22:38
  Speaker: Southern Indiana paranormal
• 22:40
  Speaker: investigators.
• 22:41
  Speaker: You're a co-chair on that organization, and you've done
• 22:44
  Speaker: paranormal investigations for years and years.
• 22:46
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 22:46
  Speaker: So Billy Miller, um, started way back in the day, thirty years
• 22:51
  Speaker: ago, close to I've been all over the place with Billy.
• 22:55
  Speaker: He passed away a couple of years ago and his niece and I, he left
• 22:59
  Speaker: the group to us.
• 23:00
  Speaker: And so we've been to all kinds of places.
• 23:04
  Speaker: Uh, General Stone's mansion,
• 23:07
  Speaker: Randolph Asylum, Waverly, tons
• 23:10
  Speaker: of local places here in
• 23:11
  Speaker: Evansville.
• 23:11
  Speaker: I did the, the building where the ninety six SDO and all the
• 23:15
  Speaker: radio stations are.
• 23:17
  Speaker: I did a reading in that building
• 23:18
  Speaker: and then did the morning show
• 23:20
  Speaker: and see, I've done all kinds of
• 23:22
  Speaker: things.
• 23:22
  Speaker: As for like, what is your
• 23:24
  Speaker: expertise as far as when you're
• 23:25
  Speaker: going on these paranormal
• 23:26
  Speaker: investigations?
• 23:26
  Speaker: Are you do you carry equipment with you or what are you
• 23:30
  Speaker: bringing to the investigation?
• 23:32
  Speaker: Yeah, I'm the no equipment girl.
• 23:34
  Speaker: Okay.
• 23:34
  Speaker: I don't like equipment.
• 23:35
  Speaker: You are the equipment?
• 23:36
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 23:37
  Speaker: Yes.
• 23:37
  Speaker: I don't like the equipment.
• 23:38
  Speaker: I don't like messing with it.
• 23:40
  Speaker: It it just it messes with me.
• 23:42
  Speaker: So when I go into a space, which
• 23:44
  Speaker: is generally what I do if I do,
• 23:46
  Speaker: um, readings for paranormal
• 23:48
  Speaker: groups is I go in and I give a
• 23:51
  Speaker: psychic reading of the space and
• 23:53
  Speaker: then then they will use the
• 23:55
  Speaker: equipment to see if they can
• 23:56
  Speaker: validate anything that I picked
• 23:58
  Speaker: up.
• 23:59
  Speaker: And we always try to have either someone who knows the history of
• 24:03
  Speaker: the building well enough that they can like validate, right.
• 24:08
  Speaker: What I'm picking up on.
• 24:09
  Speaker: Yeah, that'd be really helpful.
• 24:10
  Speaker: Otherwise, you're just kind of
• 24:11
  Speaker: saying things and it's like,
• 24:12
  Speaker: yeah, that's, that would be
• 24:13
  Speaker: interesting if there wasn't an
• 24:14
  Speaker: living here or something, you
• 24:16
  Speaker: know?
• 24:16
  Speaker: But yeah, you know, and that's part of it too, is that when you
• 24:20
  Speaker: know, when you go into a space.
• 24:22
  Speaker: Yeah, people can say whatever
• 24:24
  Speaker: and, and all you can do is sit
• 24:26
  Speaker: there and, and either accept it
• 24:28
  Speaker: or not accept it, which is why I
• 24:29
  Speaker: like to have someone there that
• 24:30
  Speaker: can validate, you know, like
• 24:31
  Speaker: when I did the stuff with the,
• 24:34
  Speaker: um, Indiana historic sites, it
• 24:36
  Speaker: was amazing having the
• 24:37
  Speaker: historians there.
• 24:39
  Speaker: I remember going to Culbertson
• 24:40
  Speaker: Mansion and we were on the
• 24:43
  Speaker: second floor.
• 24:44
  Speaker: And as soon as we got up there,
• 24:45
  Speaker: I said, I have no idea why, but
• 24:47
  Speaker: I feel like I need to stand on
• 24:49
  Speaker: one leg, like I just lost my
• 24:51
  Speaker: leg.
• 24:52
  Speaker: And one of the historians said, the woman who lived here, her
• 24:56
  Speaker: husband, they ended up taking both of his legs.
• 25:00
  Speaker: They kept like they would take a little bit, and then they would
• 25:03
  Speaker: take a little bit more and they would take a little bit more
• 25:05
  Speaker: because he had some disease.
• 25:06
  Speaker: And so it was really cool
• 25:08
  Speaker: getting that immediate
• 25:09
  Speaker: validation that that's why I
• 25:11
  Speaker: felt that, you know, like,
• 25:13
  Speaker: what's the strangest thing
• 25:14
  Speaker: you've ever had happen on a
• 25:15
  Speaker: paranormal investigation?
• 25:18
  Speaker: Probably when we were doing
• 25:19
  Speaker: community House number two at
• 25:20
  Speaker: new Harmony when I was with
• 25:22
  Speaker: Joanie Mehan and, um, Tracy
• 25:25
  Speaker: Hain.
• 25:26
  Speaker: Tracy was on one floor and I was on another floor above her and
• 25:31
  Speaker: she was doing the Estes Method.
• 25:33
  Speaker: I'm not sure if you're familiar with that.
• 25:35
  Speaker: I'm not.
• 25:36
  Speaker: Okay, so with the Estes method, your eyes are covered and you're
• 25:41
  Speaker: listening to headphones and it's either just white noise behind
• 25:45
  Speaker: it or sometimes it'll be, um, they'll use the ghost box where
• 25:50
  Speaker: it scans all the radio stations.
• 25:52
  Speaker: And so Tracy was doing that on the floor below me.
• 25:55
  Speaker: And so she's with a group and
• 25:56
  Speaker: she's really picking up on some
• 25:58
  Speaker: stuff, and I'm on the floor
• 25:59
  Speaker: above that.
• 26:01
  Speaker: There was a guy in the group that just kind of gave me a
• 26:04
  Speaker: weird vibe the whole night.
• 26:05
  Speaker: He was a younger guy.
• 26:06
  Speaker: He was with a young girl, and he
• 26:08
  Speaker: just kind of gave me a bad vibe
• 26:10
  Speaker: all night.
• 26:10
  Speaker: And at one point we had said, don't ask how they died.
• 26:15
  Speaker: Like, don't ask stuff like that.
• 26:17
  Speaker: Just be cool about it.
• 26:19
  Speaker: And so we go around the circle and they're asking questions.
• 26:21
  Speaker: And what does he ask?
• 26:23
  Speaker: He goes, how did you die?
• 26:25
  Speaker: And right at that moment, this huge wooden beam that support
• 26:29
  Speaker: like in the middle of all three floors and it's huge.
• 26:33
  Speaker: It's a huge wooden beam put in, you know, by the harmonist.
• 26:36
  Speaker: Whoever built the building, that's how old it is.
• 26:38
  Speaker: It split from the floor to the top.
• 26:40
  Speaker: Oh my gosh, he's at that loud
• 26:43
  Speaker: crack at that moment when he
• 26:44
  Speaker: asked that.
• 26:45
  Speaker: And that's probably the weirdest thing that's ever happened.
• 26:48
  Speaker: That is weird.
• 26:49
  Speaker: And at the yeah.
• 26:49
  Speaker: And at that very moment, Tracy's on the floor below us and she's
• 26:52
  Speaker: getting like some really violent stuff going on on the Estes.
• 26:56
  Speaker: So it's like, was it what was going on with her?
• 26:59
  Speaker: Was it the sky?
• 27:00
  Speaker: Was it a combination of both things?
• 27:02
  Speaker: Like, I don't know, that's
• 27:03
  Speaker: probably the weirdest thing that
• 27:04
  Speaker: I've ever experienced, like a
• 27:06
  Speaker: physical manifestation.
• 27:07
  Speaker: I mean, it's like actual, you
• 27:09
  Speaker: could actually see what
• 27:10
  Speaker: happened.
• 27:10
  Speaker: It's not just like something
• 27:11
  Speaker: that's been recorded, uh, audio
• 27:13
  Speaker: or something.
• 27:14
  Speaker: That's.
• 27:15
  Speaker: Yes.
• 27:15
  Speaker: And that's so rare.
• 27:17
  Speaker: It's I mean, because I've been
• 27:18
  Speaker: doing this for years and years
• 27:19
  Speaker: and years, and it is incredibly
• 27:20
  Speaker: rare to ever catch anything like
• 27:22
  Speaker: that.
• 27:23
  Speaker: Joni thinks all of the buildings down in new Harmony are haunted.
• 27:26
  Speaker: Sounds like they are.
• 27:27
  Speaker: The history is is pretty wild.
• 27:30
  Speaker: It is the history.
• 27:31
  Speaker: The history is wild.
• 27:32
  Speaker: Yeah, I have a different, um, I
• 27:35
  Speaker: have a different view on
• 27:36
  Speaker: haunting and how much stuff is
• 27:38
  Speaker: haunted and how much of it is
• 27:39
  Speaker: just like residual stuff that
• 27:41
  Speaker: happens.
• 27:42
  Speaker: What do you think?
• 27:42
  Speaker: What do you how do you describe
• 27:43
  Speaker: like a paranormal event like
• 27:45
  Speaker: that?
• 27:45
  Speaker: Like, what do you think is going on?
• 27:47
  Speaker: What I experienced in that moment?
• 27:49
  Speaker: I'm not exactly sure.
• 27:50
  Speaker: I think it was a shift in energy.
• 27:53
  Speaker: Like I do believe that
• 27:54
  Speaker: everything, um, moves through
• 27:56
  Speaker: energy.
• 27:57
  Speaker: And so all of this is kind of
• 27:59
  Speaker: like on wavelengths, but I think
• 28:01
  Speaker: a lot of times when people feel
• 28:02
  Speaker: their house is haunted, it's
• 28:04
  Speaker: just either a manifestation of
• 28:07
  Speaker: something they've done
• 28:07
  Speaker: themselves.
• 28:09
  Speaker: Because I've done a lot of home
• 28:10
  Speaker: clearings and I've done a lot of
• 28:12
  Speaker: that, and it'll be people who
• 28:14
  Speaker: have a lot of trauma or they
• 28:16
  Speaker: have drug addiction problems in
• 28:18
  Speaker: the house, or it's very, very
• 28:21
  Speaker: rare that I would go to a home
• 28:22
  Speaker: and it would just be a regular,
• 28:24
  Speaker: normal scenario with some weird
• 28:27
  Speaker: stuff happening.
• 28:28
  Speaker: That that's one percent of the homes that I ever went to, the
• 28:32
  Speaker: other ninety nine percent.
• 28:35
  Speaker: Tons of other stuff going on.
• 28:37
  Speaker: So you never really get to the bottom.
• 28:39
  Speaker: You know, is it a ghost?
• 28:41
  Speaker: Is it a residual haunting or is
• 28:45
  Speaker: it these people have chaotic
• 28:46
  Speaker: lives.
• 28:47
  Speaker: They have a lot of stuff going on, and that just manifests
• 28:50
  Speaker: itself out into chaos, you know?
• 28:53
  Speaker: Absolutely.
• 28:53
  Speaker: And it's, it's hard to
• 28:54
  Speaker: differentiate between like, say,
• 28:56
  Speaker: the chaotic lives may be
• 28:58
  Speaker: manifesting into this, but is it
• 29:00
  Speaker: or is it attracting some
• 29:02
  Speaker: supernatural or paranormal
• 29:03
  Speaker: entity that's attracted to that
• 29:06
  Speaker: energy itself?
• 29:07
  Speaker: So it's kind of hard to tell what's causing what.
• 29:10
  Speaker: It definitely is, you know.
• 29:11
  Speaker: And, and that's the sad thing is because like, you know, you go
• 29:13
  Speaker: into this and you want to help people like you want them to
• 29:16
  Speaker: feel better when you leave.
• 29:17
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 29:18
  Speaker: That's one of my pet peeves
• 29:19
  Speaker: about these paranormal
• 29:20
  Speaker: investigators.
• 29:21
  Speaker: Sometimes they'll, they'll say, oh, we want to help out.
• 29:23
  Speaker: And it's like, they really just end up, you know, bringing out a
• 29:26
  Speaker: ghost box and saying, yep, you've got a ghost.
• 29:28
  Speaker: And then leaving.
• 29:28
  Speaker: And it's like, they're not, I'm not sure who's really helped
• 29:31
  Speaker: here, but look, I'll tell, I'll tell you, like all complete
• 29:34
  Speaker: honesty that the majority of the homes that I've gone to and I've
• 29:40
  Speaker: done over a hundred, you know, the majority of the homes that
• 29:43
  Speaker: I've gone to, they either had investigators or psychics there
• 29:48
  Speaker: before me, and I guarantee you that they had investigators or
• 29:52
  Speaker: psychics after me, because no matter what you would say it, it
• 29:57
  Speaker: would never resolve it.
• 29:59
  Speaker: And sometimes it was because the
• 30:00
  Speaker: investigator would come in and
• 30:03
  Speaker: get them so worked up into,
• 30:05
  Speaker: right.
• 30:05
  Speaker: It's something way more dramatic
• 30:07
  Speaker: and worse than they could have
• 30:09
  Speaker: thought.
• 30:09
  Speaker: it was just grandma.
• 30:10
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 30:11
  Speaker: Hanging around.
• 30:11
  Speaker: And we need to get her to move on.
• 30:13
  Speaker: But instead, they've turned it into.
• 30:16
  Speaker: You've got a demon portal in your bedroom, and your house is
• 30:18
  Speaker: on the Earth's ley lines, and we need to move these ley lines.
• 30:21
  Speaker: So, you know, we can't.
• 30:23
  Speaker: And they create this horrible situation.
• 30:26
  Speaker: Example.
• 30:27
  Speaker: I'll give you a really great example of this.
• 30:29
  Speaker: I did a reading for a fella over
• 30:31
  Speaker: in Princeton and he worked for a
• 30:34
  Speaker: road crew.
• 30:34
  Speaker: He ran a road crew for twenty
• 30:35
  Speaker: five years and he saw a psychic,
• 30:39
  Speaker: and she told him that something
• 30:41
  Speaker: really, really bad was going to
• 30:43
  Speaker: happen on the road on this
• 30:45
  Speaker: construction crew he was working
• 30:47
  Speaker: on, and there was going to be a
• 30:48
  Speaker: horrible accident.
• 30:50
  Speaker: People were going to get hurt
• 30:51
  Speaker: and he was going to get blamed
• 30:52
  Speaker: for it.
• 30:53
  Speaker: So he needed to quit his job.
• 30:55
  Speaker: Now, he'd been there twenty five years and this man quit his job.
• 30:59
  Speaker: His wife was losing her mind.
• 31:01
  Speaker: Oh my.
• 31:03
  Speaker: That he quit his job because this psychic told him that.
• 31:08
  Speaker: Wow.
• 31:09
  Speaker: And so here I come.
• 31:10
  Speaker: Following that to say.
• 31:12
  Speaker: Hey, bud.
• 31:13
  Speaker: No, no, no, we need to rein this in a little bit.
• 31:16
  Speaker: Right?
• 31:17
  Speaker: Let's let's let's bring in let's
• 31:19
  Speaker: bring this back to the back
• 31:20
  Speaker: porch.
• 31:20
  Speaker: You know, let's rein it in.
• 31:22
  Speaker: That's not how this all works.
• 31:25
  Speaker: But when you have people out there telling people that that's
• 31:27
  Speaker: how it works and that's what's going on and getting them worked
• 31:31
  Speaker: up, you know, and I know he saw psychics after me and he called
• 31:34
  Speaker: me back to his house four or five different times, and he
• 31:36
  Speaker: would say, well, I talked to this other psychic and they told
• 31:38
  Speaker: me you were wrong and that this is what's going on.
• 31:41
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 31:41
  Speaker: And I'm like, you know, but I don't know how to help you.
• 31:45
  Speaker: Or another one I saw, um, a girl
• 31:47
  Speaker: doing a Facebook, reading a
• 31:49
  Speaker: Facebook live reading for
• 31:50
  Speaker: another girl.
• 31:52
  Speaker: You know, she had said she was
• 31:53
  Speaker: talking to the girl's deceased
• 31:54
  Speaker: father.
• 31:55
  Speaker: She goes, you know that man you're with right now?
• 31:58
  Speaker: Your dad says that that's the man that you're going to marry.
• 32:00
  Speaker: That's who you need to marry.
• 32:02
  Speaker: And I thought, oh my goodness,
• 32:03
  Speaker: like she knows nothing about
• 32:05
  Speaker: this man.
• 32:06
  Speaker: What if he's an abuser?
• 32:08
  Speaker: There are all kinds of things
• 32:09
  Speaker: that could be wrong in this
• 32:10
  Speaker: situation.
• 32:11
  Speaker: And she has done Facebook, lived it.
• 32:13
  Speaker: So odds are the boyfriend saw it too.
• 32:15
  Speaker: It's terrifying to me that
• 32:17
  Speaker: people go out and they do this
• 32:19
  Speaker: and it gives everybody else a
• 32:21
  Speaker: bad name.
• 32:21
  Speaker: You know, I mean, because there are some of us who are very down
• 32:24
  Speaker: to earth that are saying, it doesn't matter if you put black
• 32:27
  Speaker: tourmaline in an arch outside your bedroom door.
• 32:29
  Speaker: If you're living in a house full of people doing drugs, you're
• 32:32
  Speaker: still going to have that negativity around you.
• 32:34
  Speaker: It doesn't matter how much black
• 32:35
  Speaker: tourmaline you put outside your
• 32:37
  Speaker: door.
• 32:37
  Speaker: Doesn't matter how many times we cleaned your room.
• 32:40
  Speaker: This is what you're in.
• 32:41
  Speaker: So yeah, it's very difficult to sit in that space and, and sit
• 32:44
  Speaker: with other people and say, I know this is what all these
• 32:47
  Speaker: other people have told you before, but let's look at where
• 32:50
  Speaker: you are right now.
• 32:51
  Speaker: Like what's really going on.
• 32:53
  Speaker: It's not some third world demon dog that came from a portal
• 32:57
  Speaker: that's, you know, making your kids stay up all night.
• 33:00
  Speaker: Maybe you shouldn't let your
• 33:01
  Speaker: four year old watch horror
• 33:02
  Speaker: movies right before they go to
• 33:04
  Speaker: bed.
• 33:04
  Speaker: Let's try that, see if that helps.
• 33:09
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 33:09
  Speaker: I'm bombarded.
• 33:09
  Speaker: I guess I'm on the algorithm or something, but I will get a lot
• 33:12
  Speaker: of psychic reading suggestions on TikTok and tarot readings and
• 33:16
  Speaker: things like that.
• 33:17
  Speaker: So are you on, do you do any of that kind of stuff on TikTok or.
• 33:20
  Speaker: No, not on TikTok.
• 33:21
  Speaker: I mean, golly, I'm an old lady.
• 33:23
  Speaker: Like, you know, I'm nearly fifty
• 33:24
  Speaker: and I've been doing this for so
• 33:26
  Speaker: long.
• 33:26
  Speaker: I started doing readings with
• 33:27
  Speaker: tarot cards when I was fourteen
• 33:29
  Speaker: at parties.
• 33:30
  Speaker: Oh wow.
• 33:31
  Speaker: In high school.
• 33:31
  Speaker: So it's, I've been doing this a long, long time.
• 33:34
  Speaker: Um, mostly now my practice
• 33:36
  Speaker: focuses on bringing myself to a
• 33:40
  Speaker: good space where I can help
• 33:44
  Speaker: protect others and help move
• 33:45
  Speaker: people forward.
• 33:46
  Speaker: You know, how can I help everyone progress?
• 33:49
  Speaker: How can I help our earth progress?
• 33:51
  Speaker: You know, how can I take care of other people?
• 33:54
  Speaker: And that's mainly where my practice goes.
• 33:56
  Speaker: So you like to use this for good?
• 33:59
  Speaker: Basically, you're just wanting to make the world a better place
• 34:01
  Speaker: and, and to do what you can to to make that happen.
• 34:04
  Speaker: So you're involved with finding missing people?
• 34:09
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 34:10
  Speaker: You've, you've worked on certain missing persons cases and
• 34:13
  Speaker: provided investigators with information like psychic.
• 34:16
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 34:17
  Speaker: Like how exactly have you helped?
• 34:19
  Speaker: I've never worked with families and I never will.
• 34:22
  Speaker: I think there's there's too much there.
• 34:24
  Speaker: Like when you read other.
• 34:26
  Speaker: Well, this kind of this is going
• 34:27
  Speaker: to bring us back a little bit
• 34:28
  Speaker: more into what psychic stuff is,
• 34:30
  Speaker: right?
• 34:31
  Speaker: If you are doing a reading and you start telling a story,
• 34:39
  Speaker: that's generally your brain trying to fill gaps.
• 34:43
  Speaker: So if you've ever had someone tell you about, you know, a
• 34:47
  Speaker: psychic, tell you about a reading they did, or if you
• 34:51
  Speaker: overhear psychic giving a reading to someone and they say,
• 34:56
  Speaker: oh, well, this person every day at three o'clock on Saturdays,
• 34:58
  Speaker: they went and they got coffee at this little shop.
• 35:01
  Speaker: And that was like kind of their thing.
• 35:02
  Speaker: And everybody knew them for it, you know?
• 35:05
  Speaker: You know, the family's going to be like, oh my God, they really
• 35:07
  Speaker: did love coffee.
• 35:09
  Speaker: Well, they didn't say anything
• 35:10
  Speaker: about going to that place at
• 35:11
  Speaker: three o'clock.
• 35:11
  Speaker: All they heard was this person really like coffee and they
• 35:13
  Speaker: latched on to it, right?
• 35:14
  Speaker: Right.
• 35:15
  Speaker: Mhm.
• 35:16
  Speaker: And so you have to be very, very careful, especially when you're
• 35:19
  Speaker: doing that type of work that you don't allow your brain to take
• 35:25
  Speaker: over and fill in gaps.
• 35:27
  Speaker: And some of my earlier work when
• 35:29
  Speaker: I go in and I like read some of
• 35:31
  Speaker: the earlier work I did on
• 35:32
  Speaker: missing persons cases that have
• 35:34
  Speaker: either like now been solved or
• 35:36
  Speaker: someone's been arrested or
• 35:37
  Speaker: whatever.
• 35:38
  Speaker: And I go back and I look and I go, yeah, my brain was really
• 35:41
  Speaker: filling in gaps there.
• 35:42
  Speaker: Like my brain was like really trying to make something work to
• 35:45
  Speaker: make it make sense to me so I could keep going.
• 35:48
  Speaker: Right.
• 35:48
  Speaker: That would be really hard not to do though, right?
• 35:50
  Speaker: Because you're trying to, you're your brain just naturally tries
• 35:54
  Speaker: to fill gaps and you're like, okay, so they liked doing this
• 35:58
  Speaker: activity and I'm getting a feeling that they liked water.
• 36:01
  Speaker: And so there's.
• 36:02
  Speaker: You know, it would be really difficult just to not to ignore
• 36:05
  Speaker: that part of you.
• 36:06
  Speaker: Oh, it's like a big joke.
• 36:07
  Speaker: Like in, in like the psychic investigation community.
• 36:11
  Speaker: It's this huge joke that like, everybody is every single body
• 36:15
  Speaker: that's ever found.
• 36:16
  Speaker: Is found by a body of water.
• 36:19
  Speaker: It's like and it's like a joke.
• 36:21
  Speaker: It's kind of like.
• 36:22
  Speaker: Because everywhere you go, there's some kind of body of
• 36:25
  Speaker: water, you know?
• 36:25
  Speaker: So it's like always.
• 36:26
  Speaker: Oh, they were found in a body of water near a body of water or,
• 36:29
  Speaker: or the other.
• 36:30
  Speaker: The other one is when a
• 36:32
  Speaker: psychic's doing a reading and,
• 36:34
  Speaker: and you hear this a lot with TV
• 36:36
  Speaker: psychics.
• 36:36
  Speaker: If they start kind of like they're not getting any hits
• 36:41
  Speaker: from the audience, then they start with, I'm getting someone
• 36:44
  Speaker: whose name begins with the letter M, and if you watch TV
• 36:47
  Speaker: psychics, you'll see that a lot.
• 36:49
  Speaker: And it's because that's
• 36:50
  Speaker: everybody knows someone whose
• 36:51
  Speaker: name starts with the letter M,
• 36:54
  Speaker: and it's kind of like a good
• 36:56
  Speaker: starting point to jump off
• 36:57
  Speaker: again.
• 36:57
  Speaker: And so you kind of have to watch
• 36:59
  Speaker: that when you're doing psychic
• 37:00
  Speaker: detective work too, because, you
• 37:02
  Speaker: know, like maybe I'm seeing a
• 37:05
  Speaker: man sitting on top of a woman in
• 37:07
  Speaker: his arms are going up and down
• 37:10
  Speaker: just violently.
• 37:11
  Speaker: His right arm is going up and down.
• 37:12
  Speaker: Right, right.
• 37:14
  Speaker: And then I see blood everywhere.
• 37:16
  Speaker: So my brain's reaction to that is, oh, he's stabbing her.
• 37:21
  Speaker: That's my brain's reaction.
• 37:22
  Speaker: Right?
• 37:22
  Speaker: Mhm.
• 37:23
  Speaker: And if I say I see this woman is being stabbed and they go, no,
• 37:28
  Speaker: she wasn't stabbed.
• 37:29
  Speaker: She was beaten to death.
• 37:31
  Speaker: Mhm.
• 37:31
  Speaker: You've just completely invalidated yourself, even
• 37:34
  Speaker: though you saw what you saw.
• 37:36
  Speaker: But you never saw a knife in his hand.
• 37:39
  Speaker: So you allowed your brain to do that.
• 37:41
  Speaker: I think one of the one of the cases that I think really want
• 37:46
  Speaker: to look at, all of the ones that I've done this was with first
• 37:49
  Speaker: priority down in Texas, and they had a young man who'd been
• 37:52
  Speaker: missing for about a week.
• 37:55
  Speaker: And the gentleman called me and he says, hey, we're going to go
• 37:57
  Speaker: out on Friday and Saturday and we're going to go look for him.
• 38:00
  Speaker: You know, just give me everything you can.
• 38:03
  Speaker: And so I gave them all the details that I got.
• 38:06
  Speaker: You know, where he was, there
• 38:07
  Speaker: was a whole bunch of concrete,
• 38:09
  Speaker: you know, like when they were
• 38:10
  Speaker: building new roads and you see
• 38:11
  Speaker: all the big concrete tubes and
• 38:13
  Speaker: all that.
• 38:13
  Speaker: I don't know what they're called on the side of the road.
• 38:15
  Speaker: That's what I was seeing.
• 38:15
  Speaker: Right?
• 38:16
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 38:17
  Speaker: And I said, I'm seeing this.
• 38:18
  Speaker: And yet again, this goes back to that.
• 38:21
  Speaker: There was a huge body of water, right?
• 38:25
  Speaker: And all these concrete things.
• 38:27
  Speaker: And, and I said, but I know that that's where he is.
• 38:31
  Speaker: So they go out on Friday and no go.
• 38:34
  Speaker: He messages me that night.
• 38:35
  Speaker: He goes, no go.
• 38:36
  Speaker: Didn't see him.
• 38:37
  Speaker: And I said, there's a building there.
• 38:40
  Speaker: And on the outside of the
• 38:41
  Speaker: building, it's got like a, a red
• 38:43
  Speaker: meter, like something there's a
• 38:44
  Speaker: meter on it or something like a
• 38:46
  Speaker: water meter and it's been
• 38:47
  Speaker: painted red.
• 38:48
  Speaker: And he goes, well, we're going out tomorrow and we'll go look.
• 38:50
  Speaker: And so I'm I sent them all my notes and then he calls me that
• 38:55
  Speaker: night, that Saturday night, and he goes, we found him.
• 38:57
  Speaker: Oh. And he goes, you're not going to believe this.
• 39:01
  Speaker: And so that very first day where I had told him and they didn't
• 39:05
  Speaker: search there, they ended up going somewhere else.
• 39:08
  Speaker: And on the second day, they went to a place and it was at a state
• 39:12
  Speaker: park, and they had this huge lake, and they were redoing some
• 39:16
  Speaker: of the the little walkways that people could walk over the lake.
• 39:20
  Speaker: Okay.
• 39:20
  Speaker: So they had all these huge concrete things.
• 39:22
  Speaker: Oh, wow.
• 39:23
  Speaker: And he goes, and we're out walking.
• 39:25
  Speaker: He goes, we pull up in this parking lot and they got all
• 39:28
  Speaker: those concretes there, and there's this building.
• 39:30
  Speaker: And he goes, I'm walking around the back of the building, and I
• 39:33
  Speaker: saw this red meter on the back of the building.
• 39:36
  Speaker: He goes, and I was like, this is it.
• 39:37
  Speaker: This is it.
• 39:38
  Speaker: Well, they walked around the
• 39:39
  Speaker: whole day, never could find
• 39:40
  Speaker: them.
• 39:41
  Speaker: Looked and looked and looked.
• 39:43
  Speaker: And as they were leaving,
• 39:44
  Speaker: someone said, I think it's going
• 39:46
  Speaker: to storm.
• 39:47
  Speaker: And they looked up.
• 39:48
  Speaker: And when they looked up, they
• 39:49
  Speaker: found the boy thirty feet up in
• 39:50
  Speaker: the tree.
• 39:52
  Speaker: Oh my gosh.
• 39:54
  Speaker: And he said they never would have found him.
• 39:57
  Speaker: Wow.
• 39:58
  Speaker: Never would have found this kid.
• 40:00
  Speaker: And the kid had climbed out onto
• 40:02
  Speaker: the branch and, um, committed
• 40:05
  Speaker: suicide.
• 40:06
  Speaker: Oh, with a belt.
• 40:08
  Speaker: And.
• 40:09
  Speaker: Oh my gosh.
• 40:10
  Speaker: And he said, you know, we never would have found them.
• 40:12
  Speaker: So I described everything, like the whole thing.
• 40:14
  Speaker: They're walking around.
• 40:15
  Speaker: They're like, it's not there.
• 40:16
  Speaker: He's not here.
• 40:17
  Speaker: He's not here.
• 40:18
  Speaker: I could have gone forever
• 40:19
  Speaker: without that validation if that
• 40:21
  Speaker: one person hadn't have looked
• 40:22
  Speaker: up.
• 40:22
  Speaker: Wow.
• 40:24
  Speaker: So it's another thing like you can't assume he's laying on the
• 40:27
  Speaker: ground or in one of those concrete things, but he's he was
• 40:29
  Speaker: there in that area.
• 40:30
  Speaker: He's, you know, up.
• 40:32
  Speaker: That's insane.
• 40:33
  Speaker: I never, I never saw that.
• 40:35
  Speaker: Like I never my brain never would have put that together.
• 40:38
  Speaker: You know what I mean?
• 40:39
  Speaker: That's why it's so important that it's just.
• 40:42
  Speaker: And it's the same thing when you do readings at people's homes.
• 40:45
  Speaker: You know, it's you tell them exactly what you.
• 40:49
  Speaker: You see, you feel.
• 40:50
  Speaker: You feel, you hear, you sense, and you let them fill in what
• 40:54
  Speaker: that means, right?
• 40:56
  Speaker: Right.
• 40:57
  Speaker: Because if you don't, that's where you end up leading people
• 41:02
  Speaker: either down dark holes or you invalidate your own intuition
• 41:07
  Speaker: because you start giving all of these crazy details and then
• 41:10
  Speaker: they're like, wait a minute, that doesn't make sense at all.
• 41:12
  Speaker: Yeah, like names are some of the worst.
• 41:15
  Speaker: You know, I can't tell you how
• 41:17
  Speaker: many times I've heard a psychic
• 41:19
  Speaker: go.
• 41:19
  Speaker: I think the name ends with an with an editor.
• 41:22
  Speaker: Is it Fred?
• 41:23
  Speaker: Ted, Ned.
• 41:25
  Speaker: You know, and they start going through the gamut and people are
• 41:27
  Speaker: like, no, that's right.
• 41:28
  Speaker: Nobody I know of.
• 41:29
  Speaker: And they're like, oh, well, it must not be here.
• 41:31
  Speaker: It must be.
• 41:32
  Speaker: It must not be you.
• 41:32
  Speaker: It must not be somebody you know.
• 41:34
  Speaker: They're just here right now.
• 41:35
  Speaker: Like, you know, this is making
• 41:37
  Speaker: crap up at that point, you know,
• 41:39
  Speaker: and they're just kind of
• 41:40
  Speaker: covering themselves because if
• 41:41
  Speaker: they.
• 41:41
  Speaker: Yeah, absolutely.
• 41:42
  Speaker: You know, because they feel like
• 41:43
  Speaker: they've made a mistake or
• 41:44
  Speaker: something if if they can't just
• 41:46
  Speaker: move on.
• 41:46
  Speaker: I mean, sometimes it's probably.
• 41:48
  Speaker: And I guess that's something to
• 41:51
  Speaker: look out for too, is sometimes
• 41:52
  Speaker: maybe there's just nothing
• 41:53
  Speaker: there.
• 41:54
  Speaker: Maybe.
• 41:55
  Speaker: And your brain wants to not have awkward silence or whatever.
• 41:58
  Speaker: So you're just maybe making
• 41:59
  Speaker: stuff up because you should be
• 42:01
  Speaker: saying something.
• 42:02
  Speaker: Absolutely.
• 42:03
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 42:03
  Speaker: You know, if sixty five percent of my intuition is good, I'm
• 42:07
  Speaker: happy with that.
• 42:08
  Speaker: If I ever walked into a building
• 42:10
  Speaker: and they and everything that I
• 42:12
  Speaker: got an intuition for, they said
• 42:14
  Speaker: it was one hundred percent
• 42:15
  Speaker: right.
• 42:15
  Speaker: I'm going to think that they're feed me a line of bullshit
• 42:18
  Speaker: because I'm not going to.
• 42:20
  Speaker: I don't think they're telling me the truth at that point.
• 42:22
  Speaker: Right.
• 42:23
  Speaker: You know, it's like there's you can only go so far and it's all
• 42:28
  Speaker: intuition and it's all how you read it and understand it.
• 42:32
  Speaker: And I can't tell you how many times, you know, it's like, oh,
• 42:35
  Speaker: well, this one thing always means this for me.
• 42:39
  Speaker: Like I've heard people say that before.
• 42:40
  Speaker: It's like, you know, every time I my left arm goes numb.
• 42:45
  Speaker: It means, you know, someone died in the house.
• 42:49
  Speaker: So every time their left arm goes numb, they think someone's
• 42:51
  Speaker: died in the house.
• 42:52
  Speaker: And it's all subjective in our bodies change all the time, and
• 42:57
  Speaker: the energy in our bodies change all the time.
• 42:59
  Speaker: Unless you really, really know
• 43:01
  Speaker: you need to keep your mouth
• 43:02
  Speaker: shut.
• 43:03
  Speaker: You know, honestly, you don't know what kind of damage you're
• 43:05
  Speaker: doing to these people.
• 43:07
  Speaker: You know, like, I don't want
• 43:08
  Speaker: anyone feeling terrible when I
• 43:09
  Speaker: leave and and I but I do want to
• 43:11
  Speaker: give them some kind of insight
• 43:14
  Speaker: as to, you know, I have a
• 43:17
  Speaker: saying.
• 43:17
  Speaker: I used to always say, you know,
• 43:19
  Speaker: I don't do the grandma loves the
• 43:21
  Speaker: polka dot dress you wore to her
• 43:22
  Speaker: funeral stuff.
• 43:23
  Speaker: I don't do that.
• 43:24
  Speaker: Mhm.
• 43:25
  Speaker: Like, because I think once you pass on, you pass on very, very
• 43:30
  Speaker: rarely do I think people come back to give messages.
• 43:34
  Speaker: I think and a lot of this is
• 43:36
  Speaker: just how I grew up to that the
• 43:39
  Speaker: living in the dead should not be
• 43:41
  Speaker: living together.
• 43:43
  Speaker: They shouldn't be.
• 43:44
  Speaker: The energies don't work well together.
• 43:46
  Speaker: That's why you can't be together for very long.
• 43:49
  Speaker: You know what I mean, right?
• 43:50
  Speaker: That's why people get drained.
• 43:52
  Speaker: And so if every house has a
• 43:54
  Speaker: ghost in it, and every
• 43:55
  Speaker: restaurant has a ghost in it,
• 43:57
  Speaker: and all these things have a
• 43:58
  Speaker: ghost in them, you know,
• 44:00
  Speaker: everybody would be drained all
• 44:01
  Speaker: the time.
• 44:02
  Speaker: It's also disturbing to think that like, say, if you pass away
• 44:05
  Speaker: in a restaurant or something and like you're forever going to be
• 44:08
  Speaker: a ghost in a restaurant, like that's kind of horrifying to
• 44:10
  Speaker: think about as the ghost, right?
• 44:13
  Speaker: Well, yeah, you, you know, what gets me too, though, is like
• 44:16
  Speaker: when people say that they've crossed somebody over or we're
• 44:19
  Speaker: going to cross this person over.
• 44:21
  Speaker: And I can only just imagine myself because I'm a I'm a red
• 44:25
  Speaker: headed Kentucky girl.
• 44:26
  Speaker: So I'm raised with all boys.
• 44:28
  Speaker: I'm pretty bullheaded, and I work with all men now and I live
• 44:31
  Speaker: with all men.
• 44:32
  Speaker: And it's like, I can only
• 44:34
  Speaker: imagine me die and be on the
• 44:36
  Speaker: other side.
• 44:37
  Speaker: And someone I don't know is
• 44:39
  Speaker: telling me you need to go into
• 44:41
  Speaker: the light.
• 44:41
  Speaker: Oh, yes, you need to go there because you're too stupid to
• 44:45
  Speaker: figure that out on your own.
• 44:46
  Speaker: And you don't know.
• 44:47
  Speaker: Yeah, I mean, yeah.
• 44:48
  Speaker: Have you been in the line?
• 44:49
  Speaker: Why are you telling me to go there?
• 44:51
  Speaker: Do you know what's in there?
• 44:52
  Speaker: I don't think you do.
• 44:53
  Speaker: But you're telling me I gotta go there?
• 44:54
  Speaker: I don't think so.
• 44:55
  Speaker: I'm going to do what I need to do, and then I'll find my way.
• 44:58
  Speaker: You know what I mean?
• 44:59
  Speaker: That's a really good point.
• 45:00
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 45:01
  Speaker: And so for me, that that kind of
• 45:03
  Speaker: gets still mixed up in that, you
• 45:06
  Speaker: know, being responsible in what
• 45:08
  Speaker: you do and what you say for
• 45:09
  Speaker: people, you know, a lot of this
• 45:11
  Speaker: is entertainment.
• 45:12
  Speaker: You know, people get excited.
• 45:13
  Speaker: They're going to come over and
• 45:14
  Speaker: have ghost hunters at their
• 45:15
  Speaker: house on a Saturday night, and
• 45:16
  Speaker: everybody hangs out and it's fun
• 45:18
  Speaker: and it's spooky and it's a good
• 45:21
  Speaker: time.
• 45:21
  Speaker: I've done one hundred investigations, you know.
• 45:23
  Speaker: I love it.
• 45:23
  Speaker: It's so much fun.
• 45:24
  Speaker: The camaraderie, the trips up there and back, riding in the
• 45:27
  Speaker: car, it's a hoot.
• 45:28
  Speaker: Like, I love it.
• 45:29
  Speaker: Oh yeah.
• 45:30
  Speaker: But there's also, you know, a
• 45:32
  Speaker: responsibility you have if
• 45:33
  Speaker: you're in someone's home to help
• 45:36
  Speaker: them.
• 45:36
  Speaker: Yeah, totally different.
• 45:37
  Speaker: Then just let's go to Waverly
• 45:39
  Speaker: Hills and see what we pick up on
• 45:40
  Speaker: Saturday night.
• 45:41
  Speaker: That's totally different than
• 45:42
  Speaker: going into someone's house where
• 45:44
  Speaker: they're expecting you to be a
• 45:45
  Speaker: source of authority and
• 45:47
  Speaker: reliability.
• 45:48
  Speaker: Totally different.
• 45:49
  Speaker: You had mentioned that your your
• 45:52
  Speaker: practice involves animism and
• 45:54
  Speaker: Kentucky folklore and
• 45:55
  Speaker: superstition.
• 45:57
  Speaker: Um, how exactly does that tie in
• 45:58
  Speaker: with what you do with
• 46:00
  Speaker: witchcraft?
• 46:02
  Speaker: I think a lot of it is carrying the things that I learned as a
• 46:05
  Speaker: child really has laid a foundation for my practice.
• 46:09
  Speaker: And one of those things being
• 46:10
  Speaker: the living don't live with the
• 46:12
  Speaker: dead.
• 46:13
  Speaker: The only time you would talk to
• 46:15
  Speaker: a ghost is if you needed
• 46:16
  Speaker: something or they needed
• 46:18
  Speaker: something.
• 46:19
  Speaker: There was no just hanging out, everybody living together, that
• 46:22
  Speaker: kind of thing.
• 46:23
  Speaker: And then there's a lot of other stuff, just daily practices, you
• 46:27
  Speaker: know, like I got a girlfriend now that you do not put her
• 46:31
  Speaker: purse on the floor ever.
• 46:34
  Speaker: Because putting your purse on
• 46:35
  Speaker: the floor means you lose your
• 46:36
  Speaker: money.
• 46:38
  Speaker: So even if you're in the car, you don't put her purse in the
• 46:40
  Speaker: floorboard like you never put her purse anywhere on the floor.
• 46:44
  Speaker: Things like that.
• 46:45
  Speaker: Um, growing up with hate bullying, which is Sherwin
• 46:48
  Speaker: Williams actually made a paint called haint blue.
• 46:51
  Speaker: Years and years and years ago, because everyone kept painting
• 46:54
  Speaker: the ceiling of their.
• 46:56
  Speaker: This is southern painted the ceiling of their porches, this
• 47:00
  Speaker: specific blue color because it was supposed to keep ghosts out
• 47:03
  Speaker: of your house.
• 47:03
  Speaker: You know another thing?
• 47:05
  Speaker: Since we were talking about ghosts, I'll move into
• 47:07
  Speaker: witchcraft here in a second.
• 47:08
  Speaker: You would put a feather duster in your doorway.
• 47:10
  Speaker: Like when I was growing up, we had feather dusters.
• 47:12
  Speaker: I don't even know if they make
• 47:13
  Speaker: them anymore, but that was kind
• 47:14
  Speaker: of a big deal growing up was to
• 47:16
  Speaker: put a feather duster in your
• 47:17
  Speaker: doorway.
• 47:17
  Speaker: So if things were getting
• 47:19
  Speaker: knocked around or somebody
• 47:21
  Speaker: wasn't feeling right, you might
• 47:22
  Speaker: go put a feather duster in the
• 47:24
  Speaker: doorway.
• 47:24
  Speaker: I always wonder how these things came to be like, how did that
• 47:26
  Speaker: become a thing?
• 47:29
  Speaker: You know, like a feather duster.
• 47:30
  Speaker: Some wise old woman said it.
• 47:32
  Speaker: Yeah, it worked, and everyone believed it, I guess, right?
• 47:37
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 47:37
  Speaker: I mean, I tell my kids stuff all
• 47:39
  Speaker: the time when they were growing
• 47:39
  Speaker: up.
• 47:40
  Speaker: I know they believe and I just made it up.
• 47:45
  Speaker: You know, stuff like, um, like wearing a match in your hair
• 47:49
  Speaker: will keep away evil spirits.
• 47:51
  Speaker: So people used to tuck matches back behind their ears.
• 47:53
  Speaker: Well, they also smoked.
• 47:55
  Speaker: So that was, you know what I mean?
• 47:57
  Speaker: Right?
• 47:57
  Speaker: So it came in handy.
• 47:58
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 47:58
  Speaker: You keep that match back behind your ear.
• 48:00
  Speaker: Or, um, if you were walking into
• 48:04
  Speaker: a house in a snake, crawled over
• 48:07
  Speaker: your foot as you were walking
• 48:09
  Speaker: in, that means the house is
• 48:10
  Speaker: haunted.
• 48:10
  Speaker: I had never heard that, but I've never had that happen either.
• 48:13
  Speaker: That's a pretty specific incident.
• 48:15
  Speaker: Yeah, but somebody had to think that and keep that superstition.
• 48:18
  Speaker: It had to happen.
• 48:19
  Speaker: It had to happen somewhere where they were like, oh, that means
• 48:22
  Speaker: the house is haunted.
• 48:22
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 48:23
  Speaker: Oh, absolutely.
• 48:24
  Speaker: Um, like another thing that's southern is if you're out, like
• 48:28
  Speaker: you're out in the woods or you're outside and you hear
• 48:30
  Speaker: somebody call your name.
• 48:32
  Speaker: No, you didn't, you did not hear anybody call your name.
• 48:35
  Speaker: Okay.
• 48:35
  Speaker: Do not answer them because it could be a ghost trying to call
• 48:39
  Speaker: your spirit away.
• 48:40
  Speaker: Ah, okay.
• 48:42
  Speaker: So unless you're looking at that person, you don't answer because
• 48:45
  Speaker: you don't know.
• 48:46
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 48:47
  Speaker: And then one kid in each family was supposed to be able to raise
• 48:53
  Speaker: the knocking spirits.
• 48:55
  Speaker: So like, if you're in your house and you hear something knocking,
• 48:58
  Speaker: like on the wall or outside, that's a knocking spirit.
• 49:03
  Speaker: And it used to be said that one
• 49:04
  Speaker: kid in each house had the
• 49:06
  Speaker: ability to call them and make
• 49:07
  Speaker: them knock.
• 49:08
  Speaker: So that would be like a Saturday evening party.
• 49:11
  Speaker: You know, people would come over and have that one kid call to
• 49:15
  Speaker: the knocking spirits.
• 49:16
  Speaker: And what are the knocking spirits doing?
• 49:18
  Speaker: Like, why are they knocking?
• 49:19
  Speaker: Are they just trying to like, make their appearance, make
• 49:21
  Speaker: their, you know, presence known?
• 49:23
  Speaker: Or is there something they're trying to do by knocking?
• 49:26
  Speaker: See, this goes back to what I said about the living.
• 49:29
  Speaker: And the dead aren't supposed to co-exist together.
• 49:30
  Speaker: Like you're not supposed to live together.
• 49:32
  Speaker: So I'm sure you've heard of conjure and people.
• 49:36
  Speaker: Nowadays, conjure is part of a practice, which is a conjure
• 49:41
  Speaker: practice, which is pretty much a person of color.
• 49:46
  Speaker: Practice is pretty close.
• 49:48
  Speaker: It's a closed practice, but that's if you do their rituals
• 49:52
  Speaker: and practices conjure in and of itself is calling forth spirits.
• 49:58
  Speaker: And so one child in each family
• 50:01
  Speaker: was able to call spirits
• 50:02
  Speaker: forward.
• 50:03
  Speaker: So the ghost just didn't wander around people's homes.
• 50:06
  Speaker: They did everything they could
• 50:07
  Speaker: to keep ghosts out of their
• 50:08
  Speaker: homes.
• 50:09
  Speaker: So they would have like the
• 50:10
  Speaker: haint blue ceiling, they would
• 50:11
  Speaker: have rice outside their door so
• 50:13
  Speaker: that the ghosts would get
• 50:14
  Speaker: confused and stop to count the
• 50:16
  Speaker: rice.
• 50:17
  Speaker: There were all these things that
• 50:17
  Speaker: they did to keep ghosts out of
• 50:19
  Speaker: their house.
• 50:20
  Speaker: So if they did need to
• 50:21
  Speaker: communicate with someone, if
• 50:23
  Speaker: they did need to find out
• 50:24
  Speaker: information, someone in the
• 50:26
  Speaker: house had to be able to call
• 50:27
  Speaker: them.
• 50:28
  Speaker: And so it was said that one child in each family had that
• 50:30
  Speaker: ability where they could call those spirits forward so they
• 50:33
  Speaker: could find out information of whatever they needed.
• 50:35
  Speaker: But sometimes it was just a parlor trick on Saturday night
• 50:38
  Speaker: just to get them to knock back one or the other, you know?
• 50:41
  Speaker: Wow.
• 50:41
  Speaker: That's interesting.
• 50:42
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 50:43
  Speaker: Uh, now there's some
• 50:44
  Speaker: superstitions about witches,
• 50:45
  Speaker: too, that I wanted to tell you
• 50:46
  Speaker: about.
• 50:46
  Speaker: Oh, okay.
• 50:48
  Speaker: So if you wanted to become a witch.
• 50:50
  Speaker: And now this is old Kentucky superstition, right?
• 50:53
  Speaker: Okay.
• 50:54
  Speaker: And probably down south, too.
• 50:56
  Speaker: But if you wanted to become a witch, you would have to go to a
• 51:00
  Speaker: mountain top at dawn, and you would shoot through a
• 51:03
  Speaker: handkerchief at the rising sun.
• 51:05
  Speaker: And you would have to curse Jehovah three times and own the
• 51:09
  Speaker: devil as master.
• 51:11
  Speaker: And then they said that when you would shoot through that
• 51:13
  Speaker: handkerchief, blood would fall through it, and that would mean
• 51:15
  Speaker: that it had worked.
• 51:16
  Speaker: And you were now a witch.
• 51:17
  Speaker: Mhm.
• 51:19
  Speaker: And another way to become a witch was to go with the devil
• 51:22
  Speaker: to the top of the highest hill at sunrise for nine days.
• 51:27
  Speaker: And each of those days, you had to curse God.
• 51:30
  Speaker: And then the devil would place one hand on your head and one
• 51:33
  Speaker: hand on your feet.
• 51:35
  Speaker: And he would say that everything between hands and feet would be
• 51:39
  Speaker: devoted to his service.
• 51:40
  Speaker: And you would have to agree to that.
• 51:42
  Speaker: So this kind of goes back to where I said people, like we
• 51:46
  Speaker: say, my grandma was a witch or my aunt was a witch or so-and-so
• 51:49
  Speaker: was a witch.
• 51:50
  Speaker: The majority of them were not.
• 51:51
  Speaker: Because if you look at what they
• 51:54
  Speaker: would have had to do in their
• 51:55
  Speaker: minds to become a witch, you
• 51:58
  Speaker: know, and look at where society
• 51:59
  Speaker: was at that time and how they
• 52:01
  Speaker: would have been ostracized from
• 52:02
  Speaker: their community.
• 52:04
  Speaker: They weren't out there doing this stuff.
• 52:05
  Speaker: Right.
• 52:06
  Speaker: A lot of the stuff they did was just folk practices.
• 52:09
  Speaker: You know, that everybody did.
• 52:12
  Speaker: And, um, another one is, have you ever heard of a witches
• 52:16
  Speaker: fetch a witches fetch?
• 52:18
  Speaker: I don't think I have.
• 52:20
  Speaker: Okay, so it's f e t c h and there's a couple of different
• 52:24
  Speaker: ideas on what a fetch is.
• 52:26
  Speaker: Right.
• 52:26
  Speaker: So a fetch could be when a which lays down an astral, projects
• 52:34
  Speaker: herself out so that she could go hear what's going on around town
• 52:39
  Speaker: or do some kind of service that she needed to do.
• 52:43
  Speaker: So say, like, say, you think that Miss Molly down the road is
• 52:47
  Speaker: talking trash about you to another girl every night at nine
• 52:50
  Speaker: o'clock when they go fetch water from the from the well, but you
• 52:53
  Speaker: don't know for sure, right?
• 52:55
  Speaker: So you had astral project
• 52:56
  Speaker: yourself and you would take the
• 53:00
  Speaker: shape of its yourself, but it's
• 53:02
  Speaker: projected right.
• 53:03
  Speaker: And it would go out and it would listen by the well to see if she
• 53:06
  Speaker: was talking about you.
• 53:07
  Speaker: Oh wow.
• 53:09
  Speaker: Like a drone only uh, in astral spirit drone to kind of spy.
• 53:14
  Speaker: That could come in handy.
• 53:15
  Speaker: So some would say the fetch would look like a familiar.
• 53:20
  Speaker: So it could take the shape of a
• 53:22
  Speaker: cat or a toad or something like
• 53:24
  Speaker: that.
• 53:24
  Speaker: Others say that the fetch is actually you, But the only
• 53:29
  Speaker: person that can see you is the one that you're trying to get
• 53:33
  Speaker: the information from.
• 53:35
  Speaker: Oh that's interesting.
• 53:37
  Speaker: So if you look at like some of these old, um, stories from the
• 53:41
  Speaker: witchcraft trials, it may be only one person since, you know,
• 53:45
  Speaker: she'll say, I know I saw her by my barn and she was out there
• 53:49
  Speaker: and she set my barn on fire.
• 53:50
  Speaker: And then she would be the only person that saw her.
• 53:53
  Speaker: Right.
• 53:54
  Speaker: And they would say, well, that must have been her fetch,
• 53:56
  Speaker: because you were the only person that saw her, right?
• 54:00
  Speaker: Even though there were thirty other people around, you were
• 54:01
  Speaker: the only one that saw her.
• 54:02
  Speaker: Well, she really did it.
• 54:03
  Speaker: That was just her fetch.
• 54:04
  Speaker: And you're the only one that could see it.
• 54:06
  Speaker: See where I'm going with that?
• 54:07
  Speaker: I do, yeah, yeah.
• 54:08
  Speaker: So clearly she's a witch and she needs to burn kind of a thing.
• 54:11
  Speaker: Absolutely, absolutely.
• 54:14
  Speaker: Um, another thing was you could take, um, a witch could take a
• 54:17
  Speaker: hairball and they would like take squirrel hair or horsehair
• 54:21
  Speaker: cow hair and they would wad it up into a little ball and they
• 54:26
  Speaker: would go hide it under your mattress or under your bed,
• 54:29
  Speaker: inside your bedding somehow.
• 54:32
  Speaker: And that was the only way a witch could kill a person.
• 54:35
  Speaker: And the only way you could stop that from happening is if you
• 54:38
  Speaker: found it and burnt it.
• 54:40
  Speaker: Oh my gosh.
• 54:41
  Speaker: Okay.
• 54:42
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 54:42
  Speaker: So if somebody started getting sick, people would go around to
• 54:45
  Speaker: their bed and start digging through the mattress, digging
• 54:47
  Speaker: through the picture, you know, the pillows, digging through
• 54:50
  Speaker: everything, trying to find that little ball of hair and burn it
• 54:55
  Speaker: so that they don't die.
• 54:56
  Speaker: Oh my God.
• 54:57
  Speaker: Exactly.
• 54:58
  Speaker: And if if your horse tail is matted up in the morning, if
• 55:03
  Speaker: it's got a bunch of tangles in it, that's because witches were
• 55:06
  Speaker: riding your horse at night.
• 55:08
  Speaker: Okay.
• 55:09
  Speaker: So the only way to keep them from doing that was you had to
• 55:12
  Speaker: tie corn checks into their main and their tails.
• 55:16
  Speaker: MM. And that would keep the
• 55:18
  Speaker: witches from riding them at
• 55:19
  Speaker: night.
• 55:19
  Speaker: Mhm.
• 55:20
  Speaker: So, speaking of witches writing things, uh, why are witches
• 55:24
  Speaker: associated with brooms?
• 55:26
  Speaker: Oh, they were easily accessible.
• 55:28
  Speaker: It's as simple as that.
• 55:29
  Speaker: Just something as simple as that.
• 55:31
  Speaker: You know, there was some bizarre
• 55:33
  Speaker: story or something connected
• 55:34
  Speaker: with brooms.
• 55:36
  Speaker: You know, I mean, it was something that everybody had.
• 55:38
  Speaker: All witches had brooms.
• 55:39
  Speaker: You know, a lot of it was a lot of things that women used every
• 55:43
  Speaker: day were considered tools of witchcraft and more so the
• 55:49
  Speaker: reason to kill them, like they would make up all these crazy
• 55:51
  Speaker: scenarios about, you know, women in their cats, you know, well,
• 55:55
  Speaker: why didn't women, as many women die during the Black Plague?
• 55:59
  Speaker: Well, most of them had cats, and the cats killed the rats until
• 56:03
  Speaker: the rats didn't get in, that the fleas didn't get in the house.
• 56:05
  Speaker: You know what I mean?
• 56:06
  Speaker: Oh, yeah.
• 56:07
  Speaker: Wow.
• 56:08
  Speaker: So, yeah, there's there's all kinds of things that are made up
• 56:10
  Speaker: just to make witches more evil than what they ever were.
• 56:14
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 56:15
  Speaker: And Hollywood certainly hasn't helped with the, you know, the
• 56:18
  Speaker: image of witches.
• 56:19
  Speaker: You know, it's always the evil witch and, you know, Wicked
• 56:23
  Speaker: Witch of the West kind of thing.
• 56:25
  Speaker: So. Yeah, they're kind of fighting wicked.
• 56:27
  Speaker: I mean, like the house dropped on her sister, right?
• 56:31
  Speaker: And then her shoes got stolen.
• 56:34
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 56:34
  Speaker: Like, was she really evil?
• 56:35
  Speaker: That's a good point.
• 56:36
  Speaker: No, that's a good point.
• 56:37
  Speaker: We don't.
• 56:37
  Speaker: I mean, it's all in how you look at things.
• 56:40
  Speaker: Witchcraft is all in how you look at it, you know?
• 56:43
  Speaker: Right.
• 56:43
  Speaker: Your perception, your reality.
• 56:46
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 56:47
  Speaker: You know, say some say the good witch was evil because she had
• 56:50
  Speaker: the power to take Dorothy home the entire movie.
• 56:53
  Speaker: And she did not.
• 56:54
  Speaker: So she made her go through all
• 56:55
  Speaker: this rigmarole when she didn't
• 56:58
  Speaker: have to.
• 56:58
  Speaker: So exactly like, who's evil?
• 57:00
  Speaker: I guess it does depend on your perspective on who's evil.
• 57:03
  Speaker: Yeah, right.
• 57:04
  Speaker: That's what.
• 57:05
  Speaker: And that's what all of magic is.
• 57:06
  Speaker: You know, it's, you know, it.
• 57:09
  Speaker: Is it all about finding a
• 57:10
  Speaker: balance for some, that's our
• 57:12
  Speaker: practice.
• 57:13
  Speaker: For others, they don't care.
• 57:14
  Speaker: I mean, there's, there's good
• 57:16
  Speaker: there's good and bad in every
• 57:18
  Speaker: religion.
• 57:19
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 57:19
  Speaker: That's true.
• 57:19
  Speaker: You know, I could, I could throw a dart in the Bible in and
• 57:24
  Speaker: laying on something bad?
• 57:25
  Speaker: Yeah, more times than not, you
• 57:26
  Speaker: know, it's the same thing with
• 57:27
  Speaker: how people practice witchcraft,
• 57:30
  Speaker: you know?
• 57:31
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 57:31
  Speaker: Anytime there are people involved, you're going to have
• 57:33
  Speaker: all all types of abuse and that sort of thing.
• 57:36
  Speaker: So it just comes with the territory.
• 57:39
  Speaker: It does, you know.
• 57:40
  Speaker: And the same thing, you know, not just like to bash
• 57:43
  Speaker: Christianity or Abrahamic religions, I mean, because the
• 57:46
  Speaker: same thing has happened in witchcraft groups too, and in
• 57:49
  Speaker: witchcraft circles where, um, and to be honest, that's why a
• 57:53
  Speaker: lot of women started their own groups with just and we have men
• 57:59
  Speaker: in our group, you know, so we don't, we don't do that.
• 58:03
  Speaker: If it ever came to a point where we felt we need to, I'm sure
• 58:05
  Speaker: that we would, but we don't have that in our circle.
• 58:09
  Speaker: But I know there are groups
• 58:10
  Speaker: where men have become abusive
• 58:13
  Speaker: and domineering and controlling
• 58:16
  Speaker: over women.
• 58:17
  Speaker: I mean, it's been it's been written about for ages online.
• 58:20
  Speaker: You know, different groups will write about, you know, this has
• 58:22
  Speaker: happened or, you know, and it even happens in the all women
• 58:27
  Speaker: groups too, though, you know, there's somebody wants to
• 58:30
  Speaker: control everybody else.
• 58:31
  Speaker: And so it happens everywhere.
• 58:34
  Speaker: You just gotta be aware of what you're getting into and be
• 58:38
  Speaker: comfortable enough to step away.
• 58:40
  Speaker: You know, I don't ever let
• 58:41
  Speaker: yourself get so far in that you
• 58:42
  Speaker: can't.
• 58:43
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 58:44
  Speaker: Where it turns into like a, like
• 58:45
  Speaker: a cult situation where you just,
• 58:47
  Speaker: you feel like you can't leave
• 58:48
  Speaker: and you know, it's turning into
• 58:50
  Speaker: something you didn't want it to
• 58:51
  Speaker: be.
• 58:51
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 58:52
  Speaker: Is there anything else that you wanted to bring?
• 58:54
  Speaker: Oh, I was going to ask about animism.
• 58:56
  Speaker: Um, because you had mentioned
• 58:57
  Speaker: that in your, your email to me
• 58:59
  Speaker: that and I was looking into it
• 59:01
  Speaker: and basically where you think
• 59:02
  Speaker: that, um, everything has a soul,
• 59:05
  Speaker: right?
• 59:06
  Speaker: Isn't that what I'll let you explain what is animism?
• 59:10
  Speaker: So for me, animism is that everything has a spirit and that
• 59:17
  Speaker: encompasses a lot.
• 59:18
  Speaker: So, you know, a whole mountain
• 59:21
  Speaker: formation has its own spirit and
• 59:23
  Speaker: energy.
• 59:25
  Speaker: Just as each tree on that mountain has its own.
• 59:28
  Speaker: It can be the one tree or it can be the whole of the forest.
• 59:33
  Speaker: Everything has its own energy.
• 59:35
  Speaker: I guess I'm trying to think of the best way to explain it.
• 59:39
  Speaker: I know when you're holding, um, like a piece of moss or
• 59:43
  Speaker: something, you say that has a spirit to it and you get one
• 59:47
  Speaker: feeling holding that.
• 59:48
  Speaker: But if you walk into a forest where you have moss and the
• 59:51
  Speaker: whole forest surrounding you, you get a whole different feel
• 59:55
  Speaker: like, you know, there's definitely a different feel to.
• 59:59
  Speaker: You've got the moss there, but
• 1:00:01
  Speaker: it's not just the moss, it's the
• 1:00:02
  Speaker: whole everything.
• 1:00:04
  Speaker: I think I understand what you're
• 1:00:05
  Speaker: saying, it's kind of hard to
• 1:00:06
  Speaker: explain.
• 1:00:07
  Speaker: It is hard to explain because I'm trying to explain it without
• 1:00:11
  Speaker: it sounding woo woo.
• 1:00:12
  Speaker: I don't mind woo woo, but okay, I'm trying to explain it without
• 1:00:16
  Speaker: it sounding woo woo because it's it's really not a wild concept.
• 1:00:21
  Speaker: The concept is everything has energy in it.
• 1:00:24
  Speaker: And I try to be as respectful of their space and my part inside
• 1:00:32
  Speaker: of that space.
• 1:00:33
  Speaker: Right?
• 1:00:33
  Speaker: So I'm part of nature, me being
• 1:00:36
  Speaker: present on the earth, I'm part
• 1:00:39
  Speaker: of that energy as well as my own
• 1:00:41
  Speaker: individual energy.
• 1:00:43
  Speaker: And so I try to be responsible for how I put myself out there
• 1:00:48
  Speaker: and what I do and what I take inside of all of that.
• 1:00:53
  Speaker: You know, I think we've come to
• 1:00:55
  Speaker: a point where we have a lot of
• 1:00:57
  Speaker: this.
• 1:00:58
  Speaker: I need to have, I need to hold, I need to possess.
• 1:01:02
  Speaker: And I'm trying to get as far away from that as I can because
• 1:01:06
  Speaker: I years ago, we would make like a pilgrimage to a sacred tree
• 1:01:10
  Speaker: and we would do our ritual there right at that space.
• 1:01:13
  Speaker: And that whole space has this like huge energy about it.
• 1:01:18
  Speaker: And then slowly people are like, oh, I love this energy.
• 1:01:22
  Speaker: I just want to take this little bit of bark with me so I can
• 1:01:26
  Speaker: feel this at home.
• 1:01:28
  Speaker: And that's the exact opposite of what animism calls us to do.
• 1:01:33
  Speaker: Animism calls us.
• 1:01:34
  Speaker: You go and you experience that while you're there, but it's not
• 1:01:38
  Speaker: yours to possess.
• 1:01:39
  Speaker: It's about respecting that space versus I'm going to take some
• 1:01:44
  Speaker: home with me, and that space will be home with me.
• 1:01:47
  Speaker: That's not how that works.
• 1:01:48
  Speaker: It's not how that works because now you've taken it away from
• 1:01:51
  Speaker: its part, right?
• 1:01:53
  Speaker: You've taken it away from that.
• 1:01:54
  Speaker: So now it's just become a small part where it was a whole.
• 1:01:59
  Speaker: And so I try to do whatever I
• 1:02:00
  Speaker: can in my practice to replicate
• 1:02:03
  Speaker: that in and repeat that every
• 1:02:06
  Speaker: day.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker: You know, that I'm consciously thinking about that because I
• 1:02:11
  Speaker: feel it's very important.
• 1:02:12
  Speaker: You know, I mean, if you've ever
• 1:02:13
  Speaker: been in the woods, there is a
• 1:02:15
  Speaker: feeling that you get there that
• 1:02:16
  Speaker: you can never bring home with
• 1:02:17
  Speaker: you.
• 1:02:18
  Speaker: Mhm.
• 1:02:18
  Speaker: That's very true.
• 1:02:20
  Speaker: And I think it's important to experience that there in animism
• 1:02:25
  Speaker: calls me to do that.
• 1:02:27
  Speaker: And the only way for me to have that feeling is to respect that
• 1:02:31
  Speaker: and live inside of that.
• 1:02:33
  Speaker: Right.
• 1:02:34
  Speaker: So I do everything I can to just keep it that way.
• 1:02:36
  Speaker: That's that's my practice inside animism.
• 1:02:38
  Speaker: Now, some people will say, you know, there's and depends on
• 1:02:42
  Speaker: where you are in the world too.
• 1:02:43
  Speaker: You know, whatever culture
• 1:02:44
  Speaker: you're in that practices
• 1:02:45
  Speaker: animism.
• 1:02:46
  Speaker: Everybody has their own feels of it.
• 1:02:50
  Speaker: I did not grow up in a world of animism or culture of animism or
• 1:02:54
  Speaker: any of that.
• 1:02:55
  Speaker: So I only wing it on my own.
• 1:02:57
  Speaker: Like what I feel works for me.
• 1:02:58
  Speaker: You know, like in other cultures
• 1:03:00
  Speaker: where it's a primary part of
• 1:03:01
  Speaker: their culture, I'm sure they
• 1:03:02
  Speaker: have a really in-depth spiritual
• 1:03:05
  Speaker: reason.
• 1:03:06
  Speaker: I only have me in the woods and what I feel when I'm there, me
• 1:03:11
  Speaker: in the back porch, looking at this tree that I've looked at
• 1:03:14
  Speaker: for the last twenty years, I know what I feel there, right?
• 1:03:18
  Speaker: And that's all I have.
• 1:03:19
  Speaker: Um, but I find it if you read up on it from other cultures, it's
• 1:03:23
  Speaker: just so beautiful.
• 1:03:25
  Speaker: You know, Native Americans, I which I don't speak on any other
• 1:03:29
  Speaker: religions that I don't know much about, but their concept, you
• 1:03:34
  Speaker: know, of what I've read of their, their stories is very
• 1:03:37
  Speaker: similar to that, you know, and everything has a spirit.
• 1:03:41
  Speaker: Um, you know, not all witches practice animism, not.
• 1:03:46
  Speaker: There are some witches that are just like, I'm going to do my
• 1:03:48
  Speaker: thing and I don't care what anybody else is doing.
• 1:03:50
  Speaker: And I don't care if there's slave labor, and I don't care if
• 1:03:53
  Speaker: it hurts people when I do it.
• 1:03:55
  Speaker: Like I don't care.
• 1:03:56
  Speaker: I'm going to do what I want to do.
• 1:03:57
  Speaker: That's their practice.
• 1:03:59
  Speaker: That's not my practice.
• 1:03:59
  Speaker: That's their practice.
• 1:04:00
  Speaker: Yeah, that's their stuff to sit in.
• 1:04:02
  Speaker: Right.
• 1:04:03
  Speaker: But it's like that with any religion you have or any kind of
• 1:04:06
  Speaker: spiritual practice, you're going to have people like that.
• 1:04:09
  Speaker: So I don't want to make it sound like all witches are this way
• 1:04:12
  Speaker: because they're not.
• 1:04:13
  Speaker: My practice is pretty niche because I'm vegan and eco
• 1:04:18
  Speaker: friendly and sustainability.
• 1:04:20
  Speaker: And you know, anti mass consumerism.
• 1:04:25
  Speaker: It's very niche.
• 1:04:26
  Speaker: There's not a lot of witches that practice this way.
• 1:04:28
  Speaker: That is very niche.
• 1:04:29
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 1:04:29
  Speaker: Because I'm not like the TikTok crystal witches for sure.
• 1:04:34
  Speaker: But you are.
• 1:04:34
  Speaker: You're named, you know, you are a crystal.
• 1:04:36
  Speaker: So maybe I know.
• 1:04:38
  Speaker: Isn't that the most bizarre thing?
• 1:04:39
  Speaker: And so I like sometimes I'll
• 1:04:41
  Speaker: tell people like, I don't need
• 1:04:42
  Speaker: to possess them because I am
• 1:04:44
  Speaker: one.
• 1:04:44
  Speaker: You are a crystal.
• 1:04:45
  Speaker: Like I don't need to possess that.
• 1:04:47
  Speaker: That's not my space.
• 1:04:49
  Speaker: My wife wanted me to ask you
• 1:04:50
  Speaker: this because we, we are in a
• 1:04:53
  Speaker: meditation group, um, that had a
• 1:04:55
  Speaker: gathering.
• 1:04:57
  Speaker: This was a couple of years ago
• 1:04:58
  Speaker: at Wesselman Woods in
• 1:04:59
  Speaker: Evansville.
• 1:05:01
  Speaker: And I don't know if you ever you guys ever do rituals or anything
• 1:05:04
  Speaker: at Wesselman Woods.
• 1:05:06
  Speaker: We do.
• 1:05:07
  Speaker: Okay.
• 1:05:08
  Speaker: Because we were in the
• 1:05:09
  Speaker: meditation group and it was
• 1:05:11
  Speaker: silent.
• 1:05:12
  Speaker: It was late.
• 1:05:13
  Speaker: It was night.
• 1:05:14
  Speaker: It was seven thirty, eight o'clock.
• 1:05:15
  Speaker: They had the fire going and everything.
• 1:05:16
  Speaker: So no one was saying anything.
• 1:05:18
  Speaker: And we swear we heard chanting somewhere in the woods and share
• 1:05:23
  Speaker: it with us.
• 1:05:24
  Speaker: Wow, Cherise, we were kind of
• 1:05:26
  Speaker: like, it sounds like there's
• 1:05:27
  Speaker: some sort of ritual or chanting
• 1:05:29
  Speaker: going on.
• 1:05:30
  Speaker: And I said, one of these days I'm going to talk to a witch and
• 1:05:32
  Speaker: I'm going to ask.
• 1:05:33
  Speaker: And sure enough, oh my gosh, I'm going to tell Sheri.
• 1:05:37
  Speaker: Oh yeah, she'll love that.
• 1:05:38
  Speaker: So, um, we hold we hold public rituals or events every month.
• 1:05:47
  Speaker: We have something we did, we put
• 1:05:48
  Speaker: on the big witches market the
• 1:05:50
  Speaker: past two small business
• 1:05:52
  Speaker: Saturdays, the Saturday after
• 1:05:53
  Speaker: Thanksgiving.
• 1:05:55
  Speaker: But we, we try to hold events to keep the community connected at
• 1:06:00
  Speaker: least once a month.
• 1:06:01
  Speaker: We take off in January because we're tired.
• 1:06:03
  Speaker: But yeah, we do something.
• 1:06:05
  Speaker: We do events at Burdette.
• 1:06:06
  Speaker: We do Saleh1 and Ewallet Burdette.
• 1:06:08
  Speaker: Um, we do Midsummer and we try to do workshops throughout the
• 1:06:12
  Speaker: year so that people can come and just kind of like, um, learn how
• 1:06:16
  Speaker: to make a witch's besom or learn how to make sigils or so we try
• 1:06:20
  Speaker: to do different workshops too.
• 1:06:22
  Speaker: We have a candle making workshop coming up where you learn how to
• 1:06:25
  Speaker: make a candle.
• 1:06:26
  Speaker: Um, but we do love the I am a chant girl.
• 1:06:30
  Speaker: Like I love to holler and chant.
• 1:06:32
  Speaker: So if I'm leading, we're probably going to be doing some
• 1:06:34
  Speaker: kind of chant or drumming or something like that.
• 1:06:37
  Speaker: So yeah, you heard us.
• 1:06:38
  Speaker: So it was you I heard, okay.
• 1:06:39
  Speaker: That's awesome.
• 1:06:39
  Speaker: Yes.
• 1:06:40
  Speaker: And I think it's amazing because
• 1:06:42
  Speaker: I think the, the more like, I
• 1:06:44
  Speaker: would love to go do something
• 1:06:45
  Speaker: down at the four freedoms
• 1:06:46
  Speaker: monument and I'm working towards
• 1:06:47
  Speaker: that, you know, I just got to
• 1:06:48
  Speaker: get my plans laid out and have
• 1:06:51
  Speaker: security.
• 1:06:52
  Speaker: But I think the more that we do
• 1:06:54
  Speaker: this publicly, the better it is
• 1:06:56
  Speaker: for the community because more
• 1:06:58
  Speaker: we still have witches who are in
• 1:06:59
  Speaker: the closet, who are terrified to
• 1:07:01
  Speaker: let anybody know at work who
• 1:07:03
  Speaker: will come to events and like,
• 1:07:05
  Speaker: say, if a, if we have a craft
• 1:07:07
  Speaker: that we make or something like
• 1:07:09
  Speaker: that.
• 1:07:09
  Speaker: They're like, yeah, I can't take this home because I can't have
• 1:07:12
  Speaker: anybody at home see it.
• 1:07:13
  Speaker: There's the stigma.
• 1:07:14
  Speaker: And I think it's about education as far as people just
• 1:07:17
  Speaker: understanding, maybe people will hear you and they're like, well,
• 1:07:19
  Speaker: she doesn't sound like a crazy, horrible person who just wants
• 1:07:22
  Speaker: to harm everyone like a witch would do in my head.
• 1:07:26
  Speaker: Um, so maybe they think, oh,
• 1:07:28
  Speaker: this is maybe there's a little
• 1:07:29
  Speaker: this is a little deeper than I
• 1:07:30
  Speaker: thought.
• 1:07:31
  Speaker: And, um.
• 1:07:32
  Speaker: Oh, yeah.
• 1:07:32
  Speaker: And there's a lot of like, we
• 1:07:34
  Speaker: have what we call the light and
• 1:07:35
  Speaker: love witches.
• 1:07:36
  Speaker: And these are the girls that,
• 1:07:37
  Speaker: you know, everything is about
• 1:07:39
  Speaker: abundance and manifesting light
• 1:07:41
  Speaker: and attracting pleasantness all
• 1:07:44
  Speaker: the time.
• 1:07:45
  Speaker: And, you know, and that can be a really, really great thing, but
• 1:07:50
  Speaker: it can also lead you to ignore all your other emotions and deal
• 1:07:56
  Speaker: with your shit.
• 1:07:57
  Speaker: You know, if you're constantly
• 1:07:59
  Speaker: setting in this example, I was
• 1:08:02
  Speaker: leading a warrior goddess one
• 1:08:04
  Speaker: weekend and one of the girls,
• 1:08:07
  Speaker: she was in a very abusive
• 1:08:08
  Speaker: relationship, verbally abusive
• 1:08:10
  Speaker: relationship, horrible,
• 1:08:11
  Speaker: emotionally manipulative.
• 1:08:12
  Speaker: And she says, you know, I just get up every day and I just tell
• 1:08:15
  Speaker: myself, you know, things are going to get so much better.
• 1:08:17
  Speaker: Like he's going to change and I
• 1:08:20
  Speaker: just keep and I'm going to
• 1:08:21
  Speaker: manifest that.
• 1:08:22
  Speaker: And it's like, no, you're not.
• 1:08:24
  Speaker: You're in a bad relationship.
• 1:08:25
  Speaker: We need to get you out of this.
• 1:08:27
  Speaker: So we do have some of that light and love stuff that goes on.
• 1:08:30
  Speaker: But for the most part, witches are pretty down to earth.
• 1:08:34
  Speaker: It's not wild.
• 1:08:34
  Speaker: It's not crazy.
• 1:08:35
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 1:08:36
  Speaker: There's some that go out and
• 1:08:37
  Speaker: charge their crystals in the
• 1:08:38
  Speaker: moonlight and read tarot cards
• 1:08:40
  Speaker: on Saturday afternoons with
• 1:08:42
  Speaker: their girlfriends.
• 1:08:43
  Speaker: And.
• 1:08:43
  Speaker: But for the most part, I mean, heck, I, I in the administrative
• 1:08:47
  Speaker: director for a machine shop.
• 1:08:49
  Speaker: Pretty normal.
• 1:08:50
  Speaker: All right.
• 1:08:50
  Speaker: Every day.
• 1:08:51
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 1:08:52
  Speaker: Like I am an office wiz.
• 1:08:53
  Speaker: Like that is my space.
• 1:08:56
  Speaker: I'm good at it.
• 1:08:57
  Speaker: Do all of your coworkers know what you that you're a witch?
• 1:08:59
  Speaker: Oh, yeah.
• 1:09:00
  Speaker: I've been out of the closet for.
• 1:09:01
  Speaker: I don't think I was ever in a closet, to be honest.
• 1:09:04
  Speaker: Like everybody knows my license plate says switch on it.
• 1:09:07
  Speaker: Oh. Oh, yeah.
• 1:09:09
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 1:09:10
  Speaker: And I've been involved in LED groups forever.
• 1:09:12
  Speaker: Um, in this area, uh, when I was thirteen or fourteen, there was
• 1:09:18
  Speaker: a little store and they didn't call it a witchcraft store.
• 1:09:21
  Speaker: It was more of a nature outdoorsy kind of stuff with
• 1:09:26
  Speaker: drums and flutes and stuff.
• 1:09:29
  Speaker: And, um, one of the ladies that
• 1:09:31
  Speaker: owns a local store was probably
• 1:09:33
  Speaker: in her early thirties and she
• 1:09:35
  Speaker: worked there.
• 1:09:36
  Speaker: She owns a local, um, gemstone store.
• 1:09:40
  Speaker: And I remember being like thirteen or fourteen and going
• 1:09:42
  Speaker: in there and being like, oh my gosh, these are my people.
• 1:09:46
  Speaker: Like they were drumming and
• 1:09:47
  Speaker: singing and dancing and like,
• 1:09:50
  Speaker: you know, everyone was talking
• 1:09:52
  Speaker: about the earth and what we
• 1:09:53
  Speaker: need.
• 1:09:53
  Speaker: And I was like, oh, this is, this is it for me.
• 1:09:55
  Speaker: I was really into Green Anarchy
• 1:09:57
  Speaker: at the time and all kinds of
• 1:09:58
  Speaker: crazy stuff.
• 1:09:59
  Speaker: So I was like, I found my people.
• 1:10:01
  Speaker: And over time in Evansville, we've had such a shift.
• 1:10:06
  Speaker: We'll have like periods where
• 1:10:08
  Speaker: everybody will really be into
• 1:10:09
  Speaker: witchcraft and in groups will be
• 1:10:12
  Speaker: like thirty, forty, fifty
• 1:10:13
  Speaker: people.
• 1:10:14
  Speaker: And then we'll go through
• 1:10:14
  Speaker: periods where there's only like
• 1:10:16
  Speaker: eight, nine, ten people that
• 1:10:17
  Speaker: come out.
• 1:10:18
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 1:10:18
  Speaker: And then a movie will come out or something to get really
• 1:10:21
  Speaker: popular on, on social media.
• 1:10:23
  Speaker: And then now we've got a lot more people coming out again.
• 1:10:26
  Speaker: And so it just kind of ebbs and flows.
• 1:10:28
  Speaker: And I've run in a lot of circles.
• 1:10:30
  Speaker: And, you know, I see the same
• 1:10:32
  Speaker: faces for the past thirty years
• 1:10:34
  Speaker: doing this, you know, and new
• 1:10:37
  Speaker: ones.
• 1:10:38
  Speaker: I really think these young girls coming out and saying, I'm going
• 1:10:42
  Speaker: to be a witch and I'm not going to be embarrassed about it.
• 1:10:45
  Speaker: And you're not putting me in a closet, and I don't care if I
• 1:10:48
  Speaker: lose my job.
• 1:10:49
  Speaker: And I don't care if my parents get mad at me.
• 1:10:51
  Speaker: I don't care about any of that.
• 1:10:52
  Speaker: I'm going to do what I'm going to do.
• 1:10:54
  Speaker: And that has catapulted all of
• 1:10:58
  Speaker: this, everything that we're
• 1:10:59
  Speaker: doing now, it's catapulted it
• 1:11:02
  Speaker: just because of these young
• 1:11:03
  Speaker: kids.
• 1:11:04
  Speaker: Just saying, you know, I'm
• 1:11:05
  Speaker: breaking free from all these
• 1:11:06
  Speaker: restraints and I'm going to be
• 1:11:08
  Speaker: myself.
• 1:11:09
  Speaker: So I have to give kudos to these young girls and boys and all
• 1:11:13
  Speaker: y'all and all y'all's out there.
• 1:11:15
  Speaker: All y'all's.
• 1:11:16
  Speaker: Yes.
• 1:11:16
  Speaker: If someone wanted to.
• 1:11:18
  Speaker: Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:11:19
  Speaker: And if someone is interested in joining or maybe connecting with
• 1:11:22
  Speaker: you, I'll have those links in the show notes.
• 1:11:25
  Speaker: That way they can connect with it.
• 1:11:26
  Speaker: But but just where would they go?
• 1:11:28
  Speaker: Like if you just had to give them like a quick go to this?
• 1:11:31
  Speaker: Want to know about our.
• 1:11:32
  Speaker: Yeah, our events are on three
• 1:11:34
  Speaker: corners pagan circle dot com and
• 1:11:36
  Speaker: I'll have that link on the show
• 1:11:38
  Speaker: notes and yeah, that's a good
• 1:11:39
  Speaker: looking website and it's got a
• 1:11:41
  Speaker: events section.
• 1:11:43
  Speaker: Um, that's all.
• 1:11:44
  Speaker: Caitlin Dixon I'm going to give a shout out to Caitlin.
• 1:11:46
  Speaker: She's one of our co-chairs.
• 1:11:47
  Speaker: She does an amazing job on our website.
• 1:11:49
  Speaker: It's amazing.
• 1:11:51
  Speaker: Oh yeah.
• 1:11:52
  Speaker: She's good.
• 1:11:52
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 1:11:54
  Speaker: We have a candle making.
• 1:11:56
  Speaker: That's it's on our Facebook.
• 1:11:58
  Speaker: And we have a candle making workshop that's coming up.
• 1:12:00
  Speaker: Like I said, we took January off.
• 1:12:02
  Speaker: We're tired.
• 1:12:02
  Speaker: Yeah, I just take a break.
• 1:12:04
  Speaker: So.
• 1:12:04
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 1:12:05
  Speaker: Well, we, we regroup and figure out what events we're going to
• 1:12:08
  Speaker: do for the next year, but we have a candle making workshop
• 1:12:11
  Speaker: coming up, um, in February and that's on our Facebook page.
• 1:12:17
  Speaker: And, uh, and Jamie Hettenbach Marquette, she's leading that.
• 1:12:22
  Speaker: She owns a sun sign, candles s u n s I g n candles.
• 1:12:28
  Speaker: And so she's one of our
• 1:12:29
  Speaker: co-chairs and she's leading that
• 1:12:30
  Speaker: event.
• 1:12:31
  Speaker: I guess I should talk about the girls.
• 1:12:33
  Speaker: So Jamie is more Wiccan.
• 1:12:35
  Speaker: That's kind of how she started in her practice.
• 1:12:39
  Speaker: Caitlin is more shamanic,
• 1:12:41
  Speaker: eclectic, and Heather, she she
• 1:12:45
  Speaker: was involved in and now runs a
• 1:12:47
  Speaker: Norse heathenry.
• 1:12:49
  Speaker: And then I have my own practice,
• 1:12:51
  Speaker: which I've talked extensively
• 1:12:52
  Speaker: about.
• 1:12:53
  Speaker: So our events.
• 1:12:54
  Speaker: It just depends on who's leading it.
• 1:12:56
  Speaker: What kind of flare you're going to get.
• 1:12:58
  Speaker: Like we all have different types of events that we like to lead.
• 1:13:01
  Speaker: None of us lead the same way.
• 1:13:02
  Speaker: There's not an exact format like
• 1:13:04
  Speaker: I might do a witches walk in the
• 1:13:06
  Speaker: woods, and we go to new Harmony,
• 1:13:07
  Speaker: and we learn how to spiritually
• 1:13:09
  Speaker: use the plants in our practice
• 1:13:11
  Speaker: or sacred sites or things like
• 1:13:13
  Speaker: that.
• 1:13:14
  Speaker: So yeah, we all have our own different thing that we like to
• 1:13:18
  Speaker: do, and the four of us make it all work together.
• 1:13:20
  Speaker: So there's something for everyone.
• 1:13:22
  Speaker: So if someone may not be into
• 1:13:23
  Speaker: the forest thing, you know, they
• 1:13:24
  Speaker: can.
• 1:13:25
  Speaker: Oh, absolutely.
• 1:13:26
  Speaker: That's what we that's what we strive for.
• 1:13:28
  Speaker: Well, I want to thank you for spending the time to tell me
• 1:13:32
  Speaker: about all this.
• 1:13:33
  Speaker: It's just fascinating to me.
• 1:13:34
  Speaker: So maybe I'll have you on to talk about more in the future.
• 1:13:37
  Speaker: But because I don't want to take
• 1:13:38
  Speaker: up, I can talk all night about
• 1:13:39
  Speaker: this stuff.
• 1:13:40
  Speaker: But I really appreciate you.
• 1:13:41
  Speaker: Oh, I find it fascinating.
• 1:13:42
  Speaker: Oh. You're welcome.
• 1:13:43
  Speaker: I find it fascinating.
• 1:13:44
  Speaker: I love talking about it.
• 1:13:45
  Speaker: And, you know, the more I can,
• 1:13:47
  Speaker: you know, get the word out that
• 1:13:50
  Speaker: some of us are evil, but not all
• 1:13:52
  Speaker: right.
• 1:13:53
  Speaker: That's right.
• 1:13:54
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 1:13:55
  Speaker: And you're honest.
• 1:13:56
  Speaker: So I like that.
• 1:13:57
  Speaker: Yeah.
• 1:13:58
  Speaker: I mean, I'm not going to.
• 1:13:59
  Speaker: That's a big pet peeve of mine is when people say, you know,
• 1:14:03
  Speaker: wishes aren't bad.
• 1:14:04
  Speaker: They're all mean.
• 1:14:05
  Speaker: No, some of them are.
• 1:14:06
  Speaker: Some are.
• 1:14:07
  Speaker: It's because they're people.
• 1:14:08
  Speaker: So yeah.
• 1:14:10
  Speaker: But thanks again and I appreciate it.
• 1:14:11
  Speaker: And, um, have a good night.
• 1:14:14
  Speaker: You too.
• 1:14:14
  Speaker: Thanks so much, Matt.
• 1:14:17
  Speaker: And you can check out Krystal's
• 1:14:19
  Speaker: website at Kentucky dot me and
• 1:14:22
  Speaker: I'll have that in the show notes
• 1:14:23
  Speaker: as well.
• 1:14:24
  Speaker: So be sure to check that out.
• 1:14:27
  Speaker: And you're welcome to join my
• 1:14:28
  Speaker: discord server at RiverCityMystery.com/
• 1:14:32
  Speaker: Discord.
• 1:14:33
  Speaker: I'll have this episode up there
• 1:14:35
  Speaker: and we'll be talking about it as
• 1:14:37
  Speaker: well as a lot of the other
• 1:14:38
  Speaker: topics we've discussed and
• 1:14:39
  Speaker: released episodes on in the
• 1:14:40
  Speaker: past.
• 1:14:41
  Speaker: So there's an interesting community out there.
• 1:14:43
  Speaker: So I want to thank you for
• 1:14:44
  Speaker: listening and until next time,
• 1:14:46
  Speaker: take care.