Latest / Voyage Clinics Podcast / Building Better Teams and Relationships | Advice from Michael Webb Part 1

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Building Better Teams and Relationships | Advice from Michael Webb Part 1 · Voyage Clinics Podcast

0:09
Speaker 1: Hello, Welcome to the Voyage Cliness podcast. I'm your host,
0:12
Speaker 1: doctor Jordan Sanders, a family physician and friend of the community.
0:16
Speaker 1: Our objective of our podcast, as always is to just
0:18
Speaker 1: bring light, knowledge and truth to our community and health
0:21
Speaker 1: and wellness. And today we have Michael Webb with us.
0:24
Speaker 1: He is the imployment expert, and I just want him
0:27
Speaker 1: to just tell us about some secret sauce. We're neighbors.
0:29
Speaker 1: We go on walks and we talk about the universe,
0:31
Speaker 1: and we solve all kinds of problems. It's super fun. Michael.
0:34
Speaker 2: We solve all the world's problems while walking our dogs.
0:37
Speaker 1: It's true. It's true.
0:39
Speaker 2: And we carry bags with us. I'll let you decide
0:42
Speaker 2: what that's for.
0:43
Speaker 1: That's true. That's the courtesy thing to do.
0:45
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I I thank you for the invite and
0:49
Speaker 2: just high level. I've been an executive in the recruiting
0:52
Speaker 2: business for thirty five years. I've been managing teams of
0:54
Speaker 2: recruiters and building and managing teams, whether virtual or we
0:59
Speaker 2: call remote now or in person. But that's what I do.
1:03
Speaker 2: I have spent my life studying people and hiring and
1:08
Speaker 2: building teams.
1:10
Speaker 1: That is so cool and as I was like I'm
1:13
Speaker 1: pretty outside the box and stuff, so people might be wondering,
1:16
Speaker 1: our listeners might be wondering, what the heck does this
1:18
Speaker 1: have to do with health and wellness. I think I
1:20
Speaker 1: don't know. If there's a phrase out there that says,
1:22
Speaker 1: you know, you're only as good as your five best friends,
1:24
Speaker 1: and you know, I've heard that several times as I've
1:27
Speaker 1: been raising teenagers. People are trying to encourage me to
1:30
Speaker 1: encourage my teenager to have good friends. I don't get
1:32
Speaker 1: involved in that mess, but I think there is some
1:35
Speaker 1: validity to that. Like your good buds, they influence you,
1:39
Speaker 1: you influence them, and bringing talent into your circles, whether
1:42
Speaker 1: it's I think we're all kind of hunting talent. You know,
1:45
Speaker 1: we're hunting friendship, we're hunting maybe we're hunting a spouse,
1:48
Speaker 1: maybe we're hunting all these things, and so I think
1:51
Speaker 1: it would be super interesting just from a health and
1:54
Speaker 1: wellness standpoint. Yeah, we can talk shop about it.
1:56
Speaker 2: It's interesting you bring that up. I was the non
1:59
Speaker 2: affluent person that grew up in an affluent community, and
2:03
Speaker 2: I will say probably the best thing that happened to
2:06
Speaker 2: me was hanging out with a fluent front not that
2:09
Speaker 2: money was the most important thing. But I just saw, oh,
2:13
Speaker 2: there's a completely different way to live that my family
2:15
Speaker 2: was not living, and it wasn't about money. It was
2:18
Speaker 2: just being responsible and showing up and going the extra mile.
2:23
Speaker 2: And I learned that from the people that I was around,
2:28
Speaker 2: not the home I grew up in. I put a
2:30
Speaker 2: lot of stock in that statement.
2:33
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think there's a lot of validity too. Yeah, Yeah,
2:36
Speaker 1: tell us the secret, sauce. How can we bring talent
2:40
Speaker 1: into our lives on any level? What's the first kind
2:43
Speaker 1: of steps that you look at? How do you how
2:45
Speaker 1: would you advise us?
2:46
Speaker 2: What can I talk about employees?
2:47
Speaker 1: Yeah?
2:48
Speaker 2: You know, so I've made my living hiring people for
2:51
Speaker 2: other companies. I've made my living hiring people for the
2:53
Speaker 2: company I work for. But at the very end, you know,
2:57
Speaker 2: the reality is is I build teams that work for
3:00
Speaker 2: me to navigate those waters. And I think the most
3:05
Speaker 2: important thing is kind of beginning with the end in mind.
3:09
Speaker 2: You know, we were talking recently about your wife and
3:11
Speaker 2: doing some hiring, and the one thing that's clear is
3:16
Speaker 2: most people go about hiring the wrong way. They get
3:23
Speaker 2: wooed into somebody that they meet and think, oh, I
3:27
Speaker 2: really like this person, they would be great, and what
3:30
Speaker 2: they need to start with is what do I need
3:33
Speaker 2: this person to do? And then back into what kind
3:37
Speaker 2: of traits should that individual have. The example I'll give
3:40
Speaker 2: is I work for I had a recruiting for one
3:42
Speaker 2: of the big accounting firms, and you know, I've got
3:45
Speaker 2: a team of recruiters around the country and every single
3:48
Speaker 2: time a recruiter will call me and we hire accountants,
3:51
Speaker 2: primarily hundreds and hundreds accounts every year.
3:53
Speaker 1: So super great personality, people like very they're introverted.
4:00
Speaker 2: I got it, I got it. I make sure your
4:02
Speaker 2: listeners understood. And they're not all off the charts introverted,
4:05
Speaker 2: but they're on the side of introversion. And that's not
4:08
Speaker 2: a bad thing. But when a recruiter calls me or
4:11
Speaker 2: a hiring manager calls me and said, oh, I just
4:12
Speaker 2: interviewed this person and I can't wait for you to
4:14
Speaker 2: meet him. You're gonna love them. And I'm like, if
4:17
Speaker 2: you're talking about an accountant that I'm gonna love, I
4:20
Speaker 2: think we're talking about the wrong person. And do you
4:23
Speaker 2: have exposure to the Meersbriggs personality assessment?
4:26
Speaker 1: Yeah?
4:26
Speaker 2: Yeah, Okay, So the very first thing and people can
4:28
Speaker 2: google it. It's really simple and you can find a
4:30
Speaker 2: free assessment online. But the very first thing that it
4:34
Speaker 2: assesses for is introversion versus EXTROVERSI and I'll share with
4:38
Speaker 2: you my take away from thirty five years of hiring people.
4:42
Speaker 2: And this is nothing I've read in the book. I'm
4:43
Speaker 2: really I'm very much self taught. But with introversion comes
4:47
Speaker 2: great attention to detail. They're combined with each other, which is,
4:52
Speaker 2: by the way, why I always think you're such an
4:54
Speaker 2: anomaly because you have these crazy introversion detailed traits, but
4:58
Speaker 2: you also you're an extrovert and you don't fit the model. Right.
5:02
Speaker 1: We've talked about This has always made me angry because
5:04
Speaker 1: I was like, I don't fit any of that stuff.
5:06
Speaker 2: On the other side. Is extra version an extraversion and introversion?
5:10
Speaker 2: You know, Introversion doesn't mean that you're antisocial or or
5:14
Speaker 2: quiet or shot. It could mean that, right. What it
5:17
Speaker 2: means is is that social situations drain you. An extra
5:20
Speaker 2: version doesn't mean you're loud and gregarious and outgoing. It
5:24
Speaker 2: can be I am an extrovert. I am loud and gregarious,
5:27
Speaker 2: an outcomeer. I'm meant the just the absolute. You peg
5:31
Speaker 2: me at the end of the spectrum of extraversion. That's me.
5:34
Speaker 2: But what comes with that also is lack of attention
5:37
Speaker 2: to detail. Right, And so an example is is here's here.
5:41
Speaker 2: I am this sea level executive and but I have
5:45
Speaker 2: this glowing deficiency that I have to own and it
5:50
Speaker 2: shows itself in me with my inability to understand calendars.
5:55
Speaker 2: Like if I didn't have Outlook, I could not do
5:57
Speaker 2: the work I do till Outlook came along until we
6:01
Speaker 2: were working with computer because I started my work with
6:04
Speaker 2: a typewriter on my desk, not in a phone, and
6:06
Speaker 2: a calculator not a computer. I'm that old. I'm strapped
6:10
Speaker 2: with this. You know, this extraversion part that makes me
6:14
Speaker 2: successful in my work comes with this deficiency that's tied
6:17
Speaker 2: to it, lack of attention to detail. So I have
6:20
Speaker 2: to have a couple of detailed people working for me
6:22
Speaker 2: that can help me with that, and by the way,
6:24
Speaker 2: I do. And they're wonderful and I consider them my
6:29
Speaker 2: partners because I can't do my work without them. I
6:32
Speaker 2: can't give them so much credit for the work that
6:34
Speaker 2: they do. Are they on the introversion side, Yeah, they
6:38
Speaker 2: are right, probably maybe a little more toward the middle,
6:40
Speaker 2: you know, but they're definitely more on the introversion side,
6:43
Speaker 2: and they've got that attention to detail that I don't have,
6:46
Speaker 2: so I can be big picture and go fast. So
6:48
Speaker 2: to me, beginning with the end of mind and hiring
6:50
Speaker 2: people is is if we're looking for somebody that's detail oriented,
6:55
Speaker 2: they might be on the introversion side, but the social
6:59
Speaker 2: person in the innervie you is gonna woo us and
7:02
Speaker 2: we're going to fall in love with the wrong person.
7:06
Speaker 2: And it happens a lot.
7:10
Speaker 1: Man. I love this. Start with what you need. Yeah,
7:14
Speaker 1: I've gone about hiring the wrong way my whole life,
7:17
Speaker 1: and I mean I've always just I'm so easy going. Yeah,
7:20
Speaker 1: I can work with anybody. I'm like, oh, I can
7:22
Speaker 1: make any of that stuff work. And so I kind
7:25
Speaker 1: of I would just hire whomever I hope for the best.
7:27
Speaker 1: And it was okay most time, turn out okay. But
7:29
Speaker 1: and then I got burned a few times. One wait,
7:31
Speaker 1: what maybe I should look at things differently here. And
7:35
Speaker 1: I love what you and what you're unpacking with this
7:38
Speaker 1: recognizing that we have talents, we have deficits everybody does,
7:42
Speaker 1: and recognizing what your talents are and hiring to your
7:45
Speaker 1: weaknesses such that it makes you whole. You got talents
7:49
Speaker 1: I don't have. I got talents you don't have. That's
7:50
Speaker 1: okay together with our powers combined out in planet.
7:54
Speaker 2: One hundred percent. But again, the you know, the the
7:57
Speaker 2: most common mistake in hiring is when you need you
8:00
Speaker 2: need a detail oriented person, and in the interview process
8:04
Speaker 2: you fall in love with an extrovert, and you're both
8:07
Speaker 2: going to be miserable, just beyond miserable. They're going to
8:11
Speaker 2: struggle at the job and you're going to struggle trying
8:14
Speaker 2: to manage them in the job and tell you part ways.
8:17
Speaker 2: And by the way, the moment you part ways, both
8:21
Speaker 2: of you feel a million times better. The portion between
8:24
Speaker 2: you both figuring out that it's the wrong person, and
8:26
Speaker 2: that day that it ends is miserable, and it happens.
8:32
Speaker 2: It happens a lot.
8:33
Speaker 1: I think of the Walt Disney's of the world, the
8:35
Speaker 1: Henry Fords of the world. They were definitely extrovert visionary people,
8:40
Speaker 1: but they had these detail oriented introverts. And there's a
8:44
Speaker 1: book called Rocket Fuel. He talks about the visionary and
8:48
Speaker 1: then the integrator, and the integrator is the person behind
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Speaker 1: the scenes actually attention to detail, getting all the stuff done,
8:54
Speaker 1: whereas the visionary is up here thinking strong and really
8:56
Speaker 1: fast and really big visions and that tag team.
9:00
Speaker 2: Often if the visionary is a creative both of those
9:04
Speaker 2: people were Disney for sure, off the charts creative. They
9:07
Speaker 2: have to surround themselves with the people that can execute
9:11
Speaker 2: the ideas that they have because they can't, no, they can't.
9:15
Speaker 2: They can only take it so far and they get
9:18
Speaker 2: bored or they get you know, it's too much or whatever,
9:21
Speaker 2: and they're off thinking about the next problem that they
9:24
Speaker 2: want to solve, because to them, the solving the problem,
9:27
Speaker 2: the creating the idea is the juice. And that's why
9:32
Speaker 2: it takes a village, right. None of us can do
9:34
Speaker 2: any of this alone. There's very few of us that
9:37
Speaker 2: have the skill sets to do everything that we want
9:39
Speaker 2: to do.
9:41
Speaker 1: Is this what opposites attract you? Think, like in relationships,
9:43
Speaker 1: because you're looking for somebody that maybe fills the other
9:46
Speaker 1: yin to your yang or whatever.
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Speaker 2: My wife and I I am luckily married to my
9:49
Speaker 2: kindergarten sweetheart. I've just been in love with her my
9:53
Speaker 2: entire life. She kissed me in kindergarten. I thought, dang,
9:55
Speaker 2: that's cool. I got to work for it now, right. Yeah,
9:58
Speaker 2: I'm glad I landed her when I had a beautiful
10:00
Speaker 2: out of hair, because there's no way I get landed day.
10:02
Speaker 2: I had great hair and potential when we got married.
10:04
Speaker 2: At least I still have, hopefully potential. Maybe someday I'll
10:07
Speaker 2: get off my deff and do something. But we are
10:10
Speaker 2: polar opposites. In fact, on the Myers Briggs there's four
10:15
Speaker 2: different quadrants that are assessed. We are polar opposites on
10:18
Speaker 2: every single quadrant. That is our superpower, right, That is
10:23
Speaker 2: our unbelievable superpower, is that we are completely different. And
10:30
Speaker 2: her strengths are my weaknesses. Her weaknesses are my strengths.
10:33
Speaker 2: And after thirty years of marriage, I can't even say
10:37
Speaker 2: it out loud that we don't even have to talk
10:40
Speaker 2: about how we divide and conquer.
10:42
Speaker 1: We just know.
10:45
Speaker 2: We're in the process right now of selling that lot.
10:48
Speaker 2: We've got a lot of land behind us, so we
10:49
Speaker 2: just sold, we close us grow on it tomorrow. I
10:52
Speaker 2: do everything up until the sale. I'm a sales guy, right,
10:55
Speaker 2: and then as soon as it gets into escrow, I
10:58
Speaker 2: hand everything off to her because that's detail. I can't do.
11:03
Speaker 2: It's just not it's not my skill set. I'm the
11:07
Speaker 2: big picture, go fast creative and she sadly has to
11:11
Speaker 2: come behind me and sweep up the mess because she's
11:13
Speaker 2: the get stuff done and attention to detail.
11:17
Speaker 1: Right, this is exactly like my wife and I exactly
11:20
Speaker 1: she helped me with all of that. Yeah, it's exactly
11:23
Speaker 1: the same. One of the flaws or follies that I've
11:26
Speaker 1: done over the years is try to make her into
11:28
Speaker 1: me and try to say why, what do you mean
11:31
Speaker 1: you can't X y Z. Yeah, but what you're saying
11:33
Speaker 1: is much more holistic in that recognize your strengths and
11:37
Speaker 1: their strengths and know that their strengths are some of
11:39
Speaker 1: your weaknesses and vice versa, and just and just combine
11:43
Speaker 1: and accept it. And you don't even have to talk
11:45
Speaker 1: about it anymore because you know where you land and
11:48
Speaker 1: where she lands. And that's beautiful. That's a great teamwork.
11:51
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think the struggle for a lot of people
11:54
Speaker 2: I interviewing people, I don't believe John, most people recognize
11:59
Speaker 2: their strengths and strengths. I think they just think of, oh,
12:02
Speaker 2: anybody could do this, right, It's like no, no, no, no, no,
12:06
Speaker 2: that's really special about you, and because it comes easy
12:11
Speaker 2: to you, you think anybody can do it right, and
12:14
Speaker 2: that's that's where you're wrong. The hard part is you
12:18
Speaker 2: is you try to make your sweet rife more like you.
12:21
Speaker 2: Is that our weaknesses can at best get marginally better.
12:26
Speaker 2: That's if we really work at it. Our strengths, however,
12:31
Speaker 2: can become superpowers. And that's the fire that you want
12:35
Speaker 2: to throw gas on. So getting back to you, you're
12:38
Speaker 2: talking about having teenagers. To me, the whole purpose of
12:42
Speaker 2: a parent and teenagers is to find out what their
12:46
Speaker 2: fire is and throw gas on that fire to help
12:51
Speaker 2: them understand. Now, this is makes you so unique and
12:55
Speaker 2: so special and so valued in the world. How can
12:59
Speaker 2: I help you take this little thing that you can
13:02
Speaker 2: do a little bit better than anybody else when you're
13:05
Speaker 2: fifteen and turn it into the thing that will make
13:08
Speaker 2: you great at your profession. And it's different for every kid.
13:13
Speaker 2: You know, my wife and I married a jock. I
13:15
Speaker 2: was a jock. We were two jocks. She was a
13:17
Speaker 2: smart jock. I was the dumb jock. And our first
13:20
Speaker 2: two kids were like you know art, you know, I
13:26
Speaker 2: want to dance, I want to play the piano, I
13:29
Speaker 2: want to do. I want to draw and paint, and
13:32
Speaker 2: we were like, give us a kid with once a ball.
13:35
Speaker 2: We know what to do with those kids. And thankfully
13:37
Speaker 2: the next two came with the you know, give me
13:39
Speaker 2: a ball. They were both crazy athletes, but you know
13:42
Speaker 2: the but but the other two, you know, we were
13:45
Speaker 2: able to find the things that lit them up and
13:48
Speaker 2: again through gas on that.
13:49
Speaker 1: Fire, recognizing those strengths and those weaknesses and then as
13:53
Speaker 1: you say, poor gas on them. I think that level
13:56
Speaker 1: of awareness and is really really important. It's when we
14:00
Speaker 1: get crosswise with that process that they struggle. We struggle.
14:03
Speaker 1: Can you imagine if you try to get a ball
14:05
Speaker 1: in the hands of your first two kids, like no,
14:07
Speaker 1: you're gonna do this sport and you're gonna you know
14:09
Speaker 1: what I mean, and it would have been a mess.
14:11
Speaker 1: At the same time, I think being careful, especially with kids,
14:14
Speaker 1: they're so neuroplastic and they can do so many cool things,
14:17
Speaker 1: and figuring that out is less aggressive than passive because
14:20
Speaker 1: it just happens, and they do fall into those niches
14:25
Speaker 1: and sometimes they'll bounce around a little bit because they
14:28
Speaker 1: they're so neuroplastic and they can do lots of cool things.
14:31
Speaker 2: There's an interesting kind of employee child parallel here. Okay.
14:37
Speaker 2: I always say that we our base instinct in managing
14:41
Speaker 2: people is to manage them the way we like to
14:44
Speaker 2: be managed.
14:46
Speaker 1: It's a mistake. I make that mistake. Yeah.
14:49
Speaker 2: No, it took me more than a decade to figure
14:52
Speaker 2: out I'm doing this wrong. I'm giving incentives to my
14:55
Speaker 2: employees that I wanted, not what they want.
15:00
Speaker 1: I'm the best gift giver in the history of gift givers. Okay,
15:03
Speaker 1: I always give him exactly what I want. Here, you go,
15:06
Speaker 1: what do you mean I don't like that? Do you
15:08
Speaker 1: even listen to me? Honey?
15:09
Speaker 2: Like I had when I was young in my career,
15:12
Speaker 2: I had a mentor, Mark Wiseman. He's long since passed away,
15:14
Speaker 2: my dear friend I was. I did not have a
15:16
Speaker 2: best man at my wedding because I wanted Mark and
15:18
Speaker 2: I was working from at the time and I didn't
15:19
Speaker 2: think it was appropriate to have your boss to be
15:20
Speaker 2: your best man. He later got married and asked me
15:23
Speaker 2: to be his best man. I mean, that's how close
15:25
Speaker 2: we were.
15:25
Speaker 1: Cool.
15:26
Speaker 2: And when I had really done things well, like really
15:30
Speaker 2: hit a home run, Mark would take me to lunch
15:34
Speaker 2: and I lived for those lunches. It was the greatest
15:38
Speaker 2: thing ever. And I found myself as a young manager,
15:41
Speaker 2: when somebody did something great, I would take them to lunch.
15:44
Speaker 2: And after ten years of doing this, a brave young
15:48
Speaker 2: employee just says, I really like you, but I don't
15:51
Speaker 2: want to go to lunch with you. And I went, oh, crap,
15:55
Speaker 2: I'm doing I'm giving them the gift that I wanted
15:59
Speaker 2: to receive. Eve they didn't want that. They wanted something
16:02
Speaker 2: else from me, right, And I had to get to
16:04
Speaker 2: know them well enough to know what it is that
16:05
Speaker 2: they wanted. I'm an extrovert, I'm larger than life, and
16:10
Speaker 2: I want recognition, right. I got people who work for
16:14
Speaker 2: me that recognition kills them public that they would like
16:18
Speaker 2: a quiet thank you note, you know, and that's more
16:21
Speaker 2: than enough, because that's how they're wired. And getting back
16:25
Speaker 2: to you know, children were hardwired when we start out
16:30
Speaker 2: as parents to try to get our children into the
16:34
Speaker 2: things that we like because we know how important it
16:36
Speaker 2: was to us. And again, you know, my first two
16:40
Speaker 2: I had to find a new rule book because I
16:41
Speaker 2: didn't know. I didn't know how to give them what
16:43
Speaker 2: they want. On top of that, you know, the second one.
16:47
Speaker 2: We didn't know until she was you know, maybe nine,
16:51
Speaker 2: I think, maybe fourth grade that she was on the
16:53
Speaker 2: autism spectrum. And I was trying, you know, to manage
16:57
Speaker 2: her like a neurotypical child, you know. And when I
17:00
Speaker 2: heard her say things like, Daddy, I can't do that,
17:03
Speaker 2: all I heard was I don't want to do that.
17:06
Speaker 2: She was incredibly literal when she said I can't. It
17:09
Speaker 2: meant I can't. When the diagnosis came out and I
17:13
Speaker 2: talked about that with the doctor, I died.
17:15
Speaker 1: I died.
17:16
Speaker 2: I's been nine years trying to force this child into
17:19
Speaker 2: doing things the way a neurotypical child would do them,
17:24
Speaker 2: and they weren't, and I caused pain. I was brutal
17:27
Speaker 2: taking that out. So our natural inclination and managing people,
17:33
Speaker 2: our natural inclination and raising children is to do the
17:36
Speaker 2: things that we like, and on occasion that's right. More
17:41
Speaker 2: often than not, it's probably wrong.
17:43
Speaker 1: So the key to this equation that we're discussing now
17:46
Speaker 1: is understanding, listening, and connecting with that person enough times
17:53
Speaker 1: such that you understand what they like and what they want. Sure,
17:57
Speaker 1: And is it all guys that are this ware is
18:00
Speaker 1: just me and you? Because I feel like, I do
18:01
Speaker 1: the exact same things.
18:03
Speaker 2: I think. It's just there are human conditions we manage.
18:05
Speaker 2: We run, you know, the way are naturally you know,
18:08
Speaker 2: until somebody tells us different. We kind of do it
18:10
Speaker 2: the way we think we're supposed to do it.
18:12
Speaker 1: We have all this bias, yeah, and we're just applying
18:14
Speaker 1: it to our equation in front of us. What else
18:17
Speaker 1: do we have?
18:18
Speaker 2: But until we fail enough times, yeah, to correct.
18:21
Speaker 1: A better way would be to just take the time
18:23
Speaker 1: to get to know them, to see what makes them
18:25
Speaker 1: tick and what gets them moving, and then maybe lean
18:28
Speaker 1: into those things. How do you do that? Or what
18:31
Speaker 1: are some systems that you've built, Whether it's a family
18:33
Speaker 1: member or an employee, Like, how do you how do
18:37
Speaker 1: you deep in and connect with them and deepen that
18:39
Speaker 1: relationship such that you can be a better boss or
18:42
Speaker 1: a better parent. Yeah.
18:43
Speaker 2: No, it's great questions in whether it's family or employees.
18:47
Speaker 2: In either case, you have to know them well enough
18:49
Speaker 2: to know what makes them tick, what motivates them, how
18:53
Speaker 2: are they wired, what are they like? What do they
18:55
Speaker 2: not like? I manage a team that is fully remote
18:57
Speaker 2: for me, in fact, I'm the only employee and my
19:00
Speaker 2: whole company in the state of Utah, and so every
19:03
Speaker 2: single person I talk to is on a zoom call,
19:05
Speaker 2: and I do it all day long. You know, you've
19:07
Speaker 2: seen me try to walk the dogs in the morning.
19:08
Speaker 2: I can't. I'm on the phone with the East Coast.
19:11
Speaker 2: And but part of my managing people is to really
19:16
Speaker 2: get to know the people I manage. And when you're
19:20
Speaker 2: fully remote from your employees, which a lot of employers
19:24
Speaker 2: and employees, that's the relation they have. Now, even if
19:26
Speaker 2: they're in the same town, they might be together very rarely.
19:30
Speaker 2: And that's becoming more and more common virtual or hybrid
19:33
Speaker 2: work work environment, which makes getting to know the people
19:37
Speaker 2: even more important. There's no a spree de core there.
19:41
Speaker 2: You know, it's harder to build. It's harder to build
19:43
Speaker 2: the teamwork. And I have a scheduled hour every single
19:48
Speaker 2: week with my employees, with every single one of my employees,
19:51
Speaker 2: one on one one hour, and a minimum john of
19:56
Speaker 2: half of that is talking about anything butt work. We
20:01
Speaker 2: don't talk about work for at least a half hour
20:05
Speaker 2: because we don't have water cooler time. We don't have
20:07
Speaker 2: time in the lunch room, we don't have time in
20:10
Speaker 2: your case between patients. How was the weekend. We don't
20:13
Speaker 2: have that time. If we don't make it, it doesn't happen.
20:16
Speaker 2: And the only way I can get to know you
20:19
Speaker 2: and your family and your spouse or significant other and
20:22
Speaker 2: your kids and what's going on in your life and
20:24
Speaker 2: your trials and what you're working through and get to
20:27
Speaker 2: know you. There's no sense of camaraderie, there's no attachment,
20:32
Speaker 2: there's no I have to invest. I have to make
20:36
Speaker 2: that investment, and it's intentional. Now I'm grateful that I'm
20:40
Speaker 2: a hate to term people person, but that's what I am.
20:43
Speaker 2: My whole business is people, and so I'm naturally inclined
20:46
Speaker 2: to do that. So I think it's easier for me
20:48
Speaker 2: than it is for some. But I try to train
20:51
Speaker 2: accountants how to do it. It's hard. It's hard for
20:53
Speaker 2: them because if they have to go outside their comfort zone.
20:56
Speaker 1: What I'm hearing is a scheduled, deliberate connect with the
21:01
Speaker 1: person care about and want to build. And this is
21:05
Speaker 1: maybe a maintenance step of like maintaining that awesome team,
21:09
Speaker 1: because you can have an excellent team, and if you
21:11
Speaker 1: don't maintain, if you don't put the time, energy and
21:13
Speaker 1: effort into maintaining those relationships, developing them, understanding how to
21:18
Speaker 1: help that person grow and yourself and work with them.
21:23
Speaker 1: Then it can fizzle out and it can become distant.
21:25
Speaker 1: And I think that applies to kids too. I think
21:27
Speaker 1: about my kids and do I spend an hour every
21:30
Speaker 1: single week talking with them about their lives. That's encouraging
21:33
Speaker 1: me to do that more. Sometimes I just go to
21:36
Speaker 1: their room and I lay in there and I lay
21:39
Speaker 1: on the carpet and they're just yapping, you know, they
21:41
Speaker 1: just want to yap, and I'm just listening and I'm
21:43
Speaker 1: just laying there and halftime I fall asleep. But when
21:47
Speaker 1: I don't, it's awesome. I feel like I need to
21:49
Speaker 1: do better at those spaces of deliberate, intentional connection with
21:53
Speaker 1: my wife, with my kids, with my team at work.
21:56
Speaker 1: That's a good reminder. That's really good.
21:59
Speaker 2: It's more so important, I think when you're not together
22:02
Speaker 2: at all. Right, I am confident that the social aspect
22:07
Speaker 2: that we're talking about, where I set aside a half
22:09
Speaker 2: hour a week with your team that you're working in
22:11
Speaker 2: the office with, you're getting that a different way. You're
22:15
Speaker 2: getting it in bits and pieces. I'm trying to replicate
22:18
Speaker 2: it in the aggregate, right I'm trying to replicate that
22:21
Speaker 2: in a different way because I'm I'm I have to
22:24
Speaker 2: force it a little. It's not doesn't come across as
22:27
Speaker 2: for us, but I know that I have to invest
22:30
Speaker 2: that time, you know, And in almost all situations they
22:34
Speaker 2: want to. Some of them are more garden guarded. Some
22:37
Speaker 2: of them keep their personal lives a little personal. That's fine.
22:39
Speaker 2: I don't pry it, you know, it's I you know,
22:43
Speaker 2: I will inquire to the level that they're comfortable sharing.
22:46
Speaker 2: And but I, you know, I just I want them
22:51
Speaker 2: to know that I know them, that I see them,
22:56
Speaker 2: that I care about them.
22:58
Speaker 1: You know.
22:58
Speaker 2: I think I was teaching management class recently, and I
23:02
Speaker 2: think the biggest mistake that young managers make is not
23:06
Speaker 2: understanding who they work for. You know, I report to
23:10
Speaker 2: the three people that run the company that I work for.
23:13
Speaker 2: They're called the executive Committee. But that's not who I
23:15
Speaker 2: work for. The twelve people that report to me, that's
23:18
Speaker 2: who I work for. My job is stackcare of that.
23:22
Speaker 2: That is one hundred percent solely my job. My job
23:26
Speaker 2: is to make sure that I get the roadblocks out
23:29
Speaker 2: of the way, that I provide them work that leans
23:35
Speaker 2: to their strengths. And protect them from their weaknesses. I
23:39
Speaker 2: have a team of roughly a dozen recruiters. They're not
23:41
Speaker 2: all extroverts like me. I have to have a mix
23:45
Speaker 2: because you know, we've got projects I need. Half of
23:48
Speaker 2: my team is very detail warranted and half are kind
23:51
Speaker 2: of like me, all over the place there and they're
23:54
Speaker 2: all really good. They all just have kind of slightly
23:57
Speaker 2: different jobs. So anyway, well.
23:59
Speaker 1: Thanks, we're sharing these pearls of wisdom. These are really clutch.
24:02
Speaker 1: As we're building a team. Sometimes there's a team member
24:05
Speaker 1: that just isn't the right thing.
24:07
Speaker 2: Yeah.
24:07
Speaker 1: Ah, this is my least favorite thing. I'm a family dog.
24:10
Speaker 1: I'm an EmPATH. I love people. I love connecting. I
24:13
Speaker 1: believe I can connect with just about anybody out there. Yep,
24:15
Speaker 1: including my employees. And when one sideways, yeah, I have
24:21
Speaker 1: made I tend to hold them for years longer than
24:25
Speaker 1: I probably should have.
24:26
Speaker 2: Yeah.
24:27
Speaker 1: They say hire slow, firefast, This is the wisdom out there.
24:32
Speaker 1: I never do that. And so how do we be
24:34
Speaker 1: better at that space of unbuilding our team or calling
24:37
Speaker 1: them alone?
24:38
Speaker 2: The hard part is the employer. My business is the
24:41
Speaker 2: coming and going of people. I have talked to more
24:45
Speaker 2: people that have been laid off in the last forty
24:46
Speaker 2: eight hours, and anybody you've ever met, so I and
24:50
Speaker 2: by the way I've been laid off, it's emotional, it's tragic.
24:53
Speaker 2: I've been fired once. It was the wrong guy and
24:55
Speaker 2: the wrong job. What I can tell you that's hard
24:59
Speaker 2: for employers to grasp is the empathy side of you
25:05
Speaker 2: wants to give the person every opportunity. You don't want
25:10
Speaker 2: to hurt them. That's why you're a good person. That's
25:13
Speaker 2: why you and I have become friends, because you're a genuinely,
25:16
Speaker 2: very kind and interested and concerned person about everybody you
25:21
Speaker 2: can't help. When when I met you, John, that came
25:24
Speaker 2: across in three minutes, I was just sitting on your
25:26
Speaker 2: lawn that Sunday afternoon a year ago. You know, it
25:30
Speaker 2: was like, oh gosh, you are this engaging guy. That
25:35
Speaker 2: heart part of you is what's stopping you from ripping
25:39
Speaker 2: the band aid off. You should know, as frustrated as
25:43
Speaker 2: you are that the individual's not coming up to speed,
25:47
Speaker 2: they are equally as frustrated that they're not succeeding. And
25:52
Speaker 2: both of you will breathe a sigh of relief eight
25:56
Speaker 2: seconds after it's over. The next day, you both will
26:00
Speaker 2: wake up and if you don't know that, and I
26:03
Speaker 2: believe this to my core, I really do, I really
26:06
Speaker 2: really do, because I've I've just I've talked to too
26:09
Speaker 2: many people. They're just I just got fired, you know,
26:12
Speaker 2: and I'm looking for a new job. Okay, great. In
26:14
Speaker 2: almost all cases, they're actually relieved that it's over. I
26:18
Speaker 2: struggling for so long. I didn't have anything else going on.
26:21
Speaker 2: You know, if I did, I would have left on
26:23
Speaker 2: my own. They're they're they're telling you all the things.
26:26
Speaker 2: It's like they were as miserable as the person who
26:29
Speaker 2: sadly had to let them go. And maybe it's callous
26:33
Speaker 2: of me because of the man. It's been a long
26:36
Speaker 2: time since I've had to fire somebody, but I have.
26:39
Speaker 2: I take a lot more time hiring now to hopefully
26:43
Speaker 2: making sure I have the right one. But uh and uh,
26:48
Speaker 2: and it's not always on the selection side. You know,
26:50
Speaker 2: sometimes life gets in their way. They might have personal problems,
26:55
Speaker 2: they everybody's got stuff that they're working on, everybody present,
26:58
Speaker 2: company included. And uh. You know, when life gets overwhelming,
27:03
Speaker 2: or the wrong person in the wrong place at the
27:05
Speaker 2: wrong time, or you know, pick your reason why it's
27:07
Speaker 2: not working. Out. They'll be relieved when it's over. You know,
27:11
Speaker 2: they'll have a different kind of pressure on the gott
27:12
Speaker 2: to find another job, that's for sure, you know. And
27:15
Speaker 2: I would say, do everything within your power to help
27:17
Speaker 2: them with that. But you got to tear the band
27:20
Speaker 2: aid off.
27:22
Speaker 1: It's never fun.
27:23
Speaker 2: No, oh, it's horrible. Anybody who says it's fun, it's
27:26
Speaker 2: a horrible person.
27:27
Speaker 1: Is Yeah, that's true. Yeah. Yeah, it's like.
27:30
Speaker 2: That George Clooney character in a movie. His job was
27:32
Speaker 2: like firing people. Remember that. A horrible job. A horrible job.
27:36
Speaker 1: Horrible, Yeah, I think. And in the interpersonal space, it
27:41
Speaker 1: would be working on relationships. And if you're in a badge.
27:45
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so.
27:47
Speaker 1: If it's marriage, hopefully you did a better job being
27:50
Speaker 1: playing good defense before you got married and higher slow
27:53
Speaker 1: whether it's a partner or whatever. For sure, do the research,
27:57
Speaker 1: do the steps. But then yeah, if it's not going
27:59
Speaker 1: to fit, and don't Yeah.
28:01
Speaker 2: And don't beat yourself up that you know it's it's possible,
28:04
Speaker 2: it's your fault, right and if it is, tell them,
28:08
Speaker 2: you know, I might have been able to do a
28:10
Speaker 2: better job managing you. I mean, you know, I'm you know,
28:14
Speaker 2: you have a different personality and for a different job
28:16
Speaker 2: here you might have been great, but this is the
28:19
Speaker 2: one we needed you for and it's not working out.
28:21
Speaker 2: And I'm sorry, man.
28:22
Speaker 1: I struggle with that because I'm not the best at training.
28:25
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm a self starter. I think other people
28:27
Speaker 1: are self starter.
28:28
Speaker 2: Yeah, I get what he is again, your strength, right,
28:31
Speaker 2: your superpower you don't even recognize and you need to
28:35
Speaker 2: know that that is a superpower, and not everyone has.
28:37
Speaker 1: It right, right, So then it makes me even more
28:41
Speaker 1: guilty about not letting them, oh for I mean, because
28:44
Speaker 1: that's the whole process, Like, ah, it is my fault.
28:46
Speaker 1: I could have done better here here, here, here, and
28:48
Speaker 1: here and there and here we are yeah, yeah, dang it.
28:52
Speaker 2: Yeah.
28:53
Speaker 1: I think that entrepreneurialism is not for the faint of heart.
28:57
Speaker 2: I've tried it. I'm not good at it. My wife
28:59
Speaker 2: is amazing at it. She's a serial entrepreneur, you know.
29:02
Speaker 2: And you've got a handful of different things under your
29:04
Speaker 2: belt that you've done and I wished I had that skill.
29:06
Speaker 2: I just don't.
29:07
Speaker 1: It's galvanizing though, whether you're the boss or whether you're working.
29:11
Speaker 1: I think all of these are galvanizing for us and
29:14
Speaker 1: they're good for us for development as humans, being a
29:18
Speaker 1: better boss, being a better employer, being a better employee, Like,
29:22
Speaker 1: how do we I think it's all development, it's all
29:24
Speaker 1: help helping us learn and grow and become better people.
29:28
Speaker 2: On the hiring side, I always teach hiring managers there.
29:30
Speaker 2: You know, there's there's three things that if you're interviewing somebody,
29:34
Speaker 2: the candidate, there's three things they need to be convinced
29:36
Speaker 2: of during the interview. They have to be convinced that
29:39
Speaker 2: the company is good. They have to be sold on
29:43
Speaker 2: the job, the opportunity that you have. And the third
29:46
Speaker 2: thing is they have to be sold on you and
29:49
Speaker 2: not just you as a person, not you as an entrepreneur,
29:52
Speaker 2: but what are you going to do to help further
29:56
Speaker 2: them in their career. I try very hard to make
30:00
Speaker 2: promises and keep them when I'm interviewing people. They come
30:03
Speaker 2: to work for me of I believe you need this,
30:08
Speaker 2: and I'm going to invest in you so that when
30:10
Speaker 2: our days are done, you will have this because you
30:13
Speaker 2: don't have it now, you have the capacity to you know,
30:17
Speaker 2: manage people or whatever it is, or you know, learn
30:20
Speaker 2: technical things that they don't currently know or whatever.
30:22
Speaker 1: There's and.
30:25
Speaker 2: But we have to hold ourselves accountable to did I
30:28
Speaker 2: give them the tools I promised them? And if I did,
30:31
Speaker 2: held up my end and they didn't hold up theirs
30:35
Speaker 2: because of lack of skill or lack of attention or
30:38
Speaker 2: you know whatever. It is other things going on in
30:40
Speaker 2: their life, which happens. And by the way, some people
30:44
Speaker 2: can be stable for a number of years and then
30:46
Speaker 2: things go crazy. It happens, right. We tend to be
30:48
Speaker 2: pretty predictable as we become adults. We become preset in
30:51
Speaker 2: our ways and we become That's why behavioral interviewing works.
30:54
Speaker 2: It's it's based on past performances indicative. You know, people,
30:57
Speaker 2: we're talking about the great unknown commodity that there is,
31:02
Speaker 2: and we catch them at all different life people. We
31:05
Speaker 2: just do our best to help get them to the
31:06
Speaker 2: next place, and sometimes the next place is working for
31:09
Speaker 2: somebody else.
31:11
Speaker 1: The last thing I want to talk about is generation gaps. Yeah,
31:14
Speaker 1: I was talking to my wife this morning and I'm like,
31:17
Speaker 1: I just want to hire a bunch of forty year
31:18
Speaker 1: olds because I know how they think. I know what
31:22
Speaker 1: the music they were raised on. I know, I'm like that,
31:25
Speaker 1: and that's totally not.
31:27
Speaker 2: Know the music I was raised on. They do not
31:29
Speaker 2: know a single saw. So I've got I have a
31:31
Speaker 2: young lady that works for me. His name is Jenny,
31:33
Speaker 2: and she doesn't even know her song.
31:35
Speaker 1: It is tough the generational differences and the cultural differences
31:39
Speaker 1: of different generations. And you know, the millennials and the
31:42
Speaker 1: generation whatever is. I don't even know which one we're
31:44
Speaker 1: on now. But like, I think that I get along
31:48
Speaker 1: really well with the older generation older than me, even
31:52
Speaker 1: two generations older than me, Like I love them, like
31:55
Speaker 1: maybe two decades older than me. Yeah, Marilyn is I
31:58
Speaker 1: don't know how old she is, but she's not young.
32:00
Speaker 1: She has forty years of nursing experience. She's lovely, lovely.
32:04
Speaker 1: Lisa's these are my two nurspectitioners. Lisa's in your in
32:07
Speaker 1: your late forties, fifties, she'll like me if I see thirties.
32:10
Speaker 1: But she's awesome too. But there's the new people that
32:15
Speaker 1: we hire, the medical assistant, kind of an entry level
32:17
Speaker 1: position type thing. They tend to be younger. And it's fine.
32:21
Speaker 1: I love my I have younger kids. I love them.
32:23
Speaker 1: But there are cultural differences that are a little bit
32:26
Speaker 1: more challenging too.
32:26
Speaker 2: I think to me the thing when I realized that
32:32
Speaker 2: the younger people could actually help me because they are
32:36
Speaker 2: creative solution problem solvers in ways that you and I
32:39
Speaker 2: can't think of. It's not always technology, but it often is.
32:43
Speaker 2: It's second nature to them, where you know, it's we're
32:47
Speaker 2: comfortable with it, but it's not second nature. Again, I
32:50
Speaker 2: started my career in recruiting before there was a computer.
32:52
Speaker 2: I tell that to my recruits and they're like huge
32:54
Speaker 2: filing cabinets, and they said, what's a filing cabinist? I said, exactly, exactly.
32:58
Speaker 2: This is how far apart we are. They don't even
33:02
Speaker 2: know what a filing cabinet is because they don't even
33:04
Speaker 2: exist anymore. Really, but I would say that that one.
33:11
Speaker 2: You know, we're all wired a little differently. You and
33:13
Speaker 2: I both probably get along better with people, but there's
33:16
Speaker 2: unbelievable talent in this. I think the biggest thing is
33:21
Speaker 2: we have to find out what motivates them. I am.
33:26
Speaker 2: You know, my parents were baby boomers. They were give
33:31
Speaker 2: everything to the company. And by the way, my parents'
33:35
Speaker 2: generation all worked for the same company for day near
33:37
Speaker 2: their whole lives. You know, my mother in law, my
33:41
Speaker 2: father in law, my stepfather, that raised me my biological father.
33:47
Speaker 2: They all came out of college and had one job
33:48
Speaker 2: there in her right, the relationship between employees and employers
33:52
Speaker 2: were completely different than and we have this younger generation
33:56
Speaker 2: now that are searching for something to belong to. They
34:01
Speaker 2: don't yet have that kind of commitment, and our job,
34:05
Speaker 2: hopefully if done right, is to show them, no, there
34:07
Speaker 2: can be longevity. You can you can have a great
34:11
Speaker 2: job working for the same people for a long time, right,
34:14
Speaker 2: But my job is to find out what makes you tech?
34:16
Speaker 2: How do I get the best out of you? What
34:18
Speaker 2: motivates you? You know? And again falling back to the
34:22
Speaker 2: natural inclination. So the natural man in this case, John
34:26
Speaker 2: is I will question you don't have to answer this,
34:29
Speaker 2: just hypothetical, but are you do you get along with
34:35
Speaker 2: better with people your own age because they react better
34:40
Speaker 2: to how you like to be managed, and that's how
34:43
Speaker 2: you're managed. That's the answer to that. But our natural
34:46
Speaker 2: inclination is to manage people the way we like to
34:48
Speaker 2: be managed. And there is some generational different managing that
34:52
Speaker 2: goes along with this, and that again rolls back to
34:55
Speaker 2: the I have to spend a half hour week talking
34:58
Speaker 2: to people that work for me, even though in many
35:00
Speaker 2: cases we talk every day. It's work, you know, it's
35:04
Speaker 2: just just answering a quick question here, or how do
35:06
Speaker 2: I solve this problem, or you know, whatever my job is,
35:08
Speaker 2: you know, clear the construction out of the way, clear
35:10
Speaker 2: the barriers, let them be successful, and and give them
35:16
Speaker 2: crazy credit for the work that they've done. Don't take
35:18
Speaker 2: credit for anything. I do not take credit for anything
35:21
Speaker 2: that comes out of my department. I give it to
35:23
Speaker 2: whoever earned it, because it's not me. My job is
35:26
Speaker 2: directing traffic. Their job is executing all day long. But
35:31
Speaker 2: I want to reiterate, it took me a long time
35:33
Speaker 2: to figure that out. I was managing people to wait.
35:35
Speaker 2: I wanted to be managed, and I was failing.
35:39
Speaker 1: I feel like there's so many nuggets you're sharing with us.
35:41
Speaker 1: It's so good. I appreciate the gold mine. It's really good.
35:44
Speaker 1: And I grew up in a mining town. Yeah, that hits.
35:47
Speaker 1: I know. I said that was the last comment, but
35:49
Speaker 1: I really got one more. It was from our dog Talk.
35:52
Speaker 1: But we might want to start up podcast called talk
35:54
Speaker 1: and we're just out walking the dogs talking about stuff.
35:57
Speaker 2: But better than poot bag, which is the other thing
36:00
Speaker 2: we could call it.
36:02
Speaker 1: That's true. Yeah, But on one of our doc talks,
36:07
Speaker 1: I asked you, what do you look for as you're
36:11
Speaker 1: interviewing people? What question do you ask That would say,
36:14
Speaker 1: is your question of questions? And I remember your response,
36:17
Speaker 1: but I want you to share it with our listeners
36:18
Speaker 1: because it was profound.
36:21
Speaker 2: Yeah. So I believe to my core that successful people
36:27
Speaker 2: have been through difficult things and have figured out how
36:30
Speaker 2: to pick themselves up, dust themselves off, and get back.
36:32
Speaker 2: And there's a professor out of Stanford named Angela Duckworth
36:36
Speaker 2: who has written and spoken about this more than anything,
36:38
Speaker 2: and it falls under the category of grit. And she
36:42
Speaker 2: has her own acronym for grit. And it doesn't matter
36:44
Speaker 2: what that is, but high level it's it's about long
36:48
Speaker 2: term focus to a task. But I sum it up
36:51
Speaker 2: a slightly different of people who have overcome difficult things
36:55
Speaker 2: in life. They're winners and and the inverse is if
37:02
Speaker 2: coming to work for me and I'm exposing them to
37:06
Speaker 2: the most difficult thing they've ever done, I've got a
37:09
Speaker 2: fifty to fifty shot of whether they're going to make
37:12
Speaker 2: it or not. My wife, her mother died when she
37:16
Speaker 2: was like eight. That gave her a gear that I
37:19
Speaker 2: will never have. I mean, I can't tell you how
37:23
Speaker 2: that changed the trajectory of her life in a unbelievably
37:27
Speaker 2: positive way. At the time, as traumatic as you could
37:31
Speaker 2: possibly imagine. I can't imagine losing not just a parent,
37:35
Speaker 2: but your mother. Yeah, and she has no memory of
37:39
Speaker 2: her mother healthier mother had died of kidney failure. She
37:42
Speaker 2: was sick and on dialysis. My wife's whole life. And
37:45
Speaker 2: that doesn't mean that somebody has to die. But I
37:47
Speaker 2: believe that by figuring out how to extricate yourself from
37:53
Speaker 2: whatever difficult circumstances that life is dealt to you. If
37:58
Speaker 2: you figure that out, you've got grit and you can
38:04
Speaker 2: walk through brick walls. You know. That's not to say
38:07
Speaker 2: that you're not going to have your struggles. It's to
38:09
Speaker 2: say that your struggles aren't going to overwhelm you and
38:12
Speaker 2: you're just going to walk in one day and quit
38:13
Speaker 2: because it's the hardest thing you And it's possible. We
38:16
Speaker 2: talked about some of these generational things. It's possible we
38:19
Speaker 2: have a group of kids that we've insulated from difficult things,
38:23
Speaker 2: and their entree into the work world might be the
38:26
Speaker 2: first difficult thing they did to me, it's even more
38:28
Speaker 2: important to ascertain you know what, you know, what's the
38:31
Speaker 2: biggest struggle you've ever been through. I'm hiring people who
38:34
Speaker 2: are accountants, and you're familiar with tax season. We call
38:38
Speaker 2: it busy season. It's three to four months of just hell.
38:43
Speaker 2: It's brutal. It's six seven days a week, it's NonStop.
38:49
Speaker 2: You know, we feed you like nobody's business because it's
38:52
Speaker 2: too expensive to have you go out to lunch. You know,
38:55
Speaker 2: we just we need you there working. And if you've
38:59
Speaker 2: never been through something hard, there's no way you're going
39:01
Speaker 2: to get through tax season. You're going to implode because
39:04
Speaker 2: it will be the hardest thing you've ever done. But
39:07
Speaker 2: if you've been through something difficult and you figured out
39:11
Speaker 2: whatever gear that is, that will propel you the rest
39:15
Speaker 2: of your life in success. Life's not going to be
39:18
Speaker 2: without struggles, but you're going to realize you can do
39:21
Speaker 2: things that you think you can. I don't talk a
39:23
Speaker 2: lot about it, but we lost a grandchild about seven
39:25
Speaker 2: years ago, and I remember my son in law just
39:28
Speaker 2: like you know, in days preceding her death, he was
39:32
Speaker 2: looking at my wife and I who again, this unbelievably
39:35
Speaker 2: powerful team who have completely different strengths taking care of
39:39
Speaker 2: all the things that needed to happen. And he was like,
39:44
Speaker 2: how are you too functioning? And I said, I'm sorry.
39:47
Speaker 2: This is not the first horrible thing we've been through.
39:49
Speaker 2: It is the worst thing we've been through, but it's
39:52
Speaker 2: not the first. And I'm so sorry that my worst
39:56
Speaker 2: thing is your first. But you will come out of
39:59
Speaker 2: this and be invincible. Yeah, and he is, you know,
40:04
Speaker 2: because he figured out how to work through the hardest
40:09
Speaker 2: thing any parent could ever possibly go through. And you
40:14
Speaker 2: know the only reason why my wife and I were
40:16
Speaker 2: functional is we've been through difficult things before. It was
40:19
Speaker 2: not our first rodeo. It sadly was our kids first road.
40:23
Speaker 2: They're so amazing now, you know. And the good news
40:26
Speaker 2: is is that hindsight has given them the ability to
40:28
Speaker 2: see that she just wasn't meant to be with them.
40:30
Speaker 2: And it doesn't make it better, but it makes it
40:34
Speaker 2: palatable to accept it. Like you, he's got to Michael
40:38
Speaker 2: backgrit and resolved to the fact that her body just
40:41
Speaker 2: wasn't working.
40:42
Speaker 1: Oh, it's beautiful. I love this angle on grit and
40:45
Speaker 1: on going through hard things.
40:46
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it doesn't embrace all that traumatic, right, Yeah,
40:50
Speaker 2: it just has to be difficult.
40:51
Speaker 1: Yeah, in my journey in dealing with grief and trauma
40:54
Speaker 1: and things personally, but then also helping others in those
40:58
Speaker 1: spaces I've come to and to look at it and A,
41:04
Speaker 1: it's hard, and it's not mine to take. Actually, it's
41:08
Speaker 1: yours to have and hold and be with And I
41:11
Speaker 1: can be there with you and hold space, but it's yours.
41:15
Speaker 1: I think it's beautiful to we're here to grow and
41:18
Speaker 1: learn and do hard things and suffer and that is hard,
41:23
Speaker 1: but it's it's cool that in building a family, we're
41:27
Speaker 1: all building. Right to look at those hardest things you've
41:30
Speaker 1: ever done as positives. Really, wow, cool, You've done some
41:34
Speaker 1: hard things, so when I ask you to do this,
41:36
Speaker 1: you've done and conquered hard things. You can conquer this too. Yeah,
41:39
Speaker 1: that's really cool. And what the final nugget I think
41:43
Speaker 1: of today's episode. But I really appreciate you and your
41:46
Speaker 1: depth and breadth of understanding, your compassion, and yeah, thank
41:50
Speaker 1: you for being on the podcast today. Pleasure Michael Webb,
41:53
Speaker 1: it was awesome. Tell us your brand, tell us how
41:55
Speaker 1: folks can get a hold of you if they need to,
41:57
Speaker 1: or all that stuff.
41:58
Speaker 2: Lincol is probably always the easiest way they get a
42:00
Speaker 2: hold of me. Michael Webb, the employment expert.
42:03
Speaker 1: That's right, Accounting, placement, recruitment, all other things.
42:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a handful of Michael Webbs out there, but
42:10
Speaker 2: if you put in the employment expert, you'll find me there.
42:12
Speaker 1: You go. Well, to our listeners, thank you for tuning in,
42:15
Speaker 1: and I hope you learned some cool stuff. I always learn.
42:18
Speaker 1: I love interviewing folks and I love the pearls of
42:21
Speaker 1: wisdom that they share with us. We've shared many pearls
42:24
Speaker 1: of wisdom as our dogs drop nuggets, and we picked
42:28
Speaker 1: them out. So anyway, like and subscribe, or just turn
42:30
Speaker 1: it off and go outside and hunt mushrooms.