Latest / GAIN Momentum / The LinkedIn Executive and Best Practices for a B2B Marketplace | with Zoe Koumbouzi
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- GAIN Momentum episode #56: The LinkedIn Executive and Best Practices for a B2B Marketplace | with Zoe Koumbouzi === Adam Mogelonsky: Welcome to the Gain Momentum podcast, focusing on timeless lessons from senior leaders in hospitality, travel, food service, and technology. I'm joined today by Zoe Koumbouzi. How are you? Zoe Koumbouzi: I'm very good, thank you. How are you, Adam? Adam Mogelonsky: I'm doing fantastic. We have a special episode today titled The LinkedIn Executive, part of our executive series where we're looking at how hotelier and travel Executives are adapting their roles in the face of shifting, technology and just an evolution of the workplace in a general sense. And we're talking today about LinkedIn. Marketing, which is to say that LinkedIn as a social media platform is growing as a [00:01:00] tool, both for news and keeping in touch and your professional network, but also for advertising your solutions, your company, your hotel. So Zoe, before we get into LinkedIn executive, I'm wondering if you could just Give us a background on your previous roles in marketing, for ReviewPro, for Shijie Group, and, uh, any other places in, other industries outside of hotel technology. Zoe Koumbouzi: Sure, LinkedIn is my absolutely favorite subject. I'm really glad to dive in today, Adam. my marketing journey has always had a major thread running through it, and that is my absolute passion, which is writing and communicating. Um, I was that kid that was always writing newspapers, booklets, little letters, and things like that. So, I started my career in print journalism a long time ago, um, before web content [00:02:00] existed. But when that came on the scene, I was like, Web content, blogging, social media when that came along. and then kind of by mid career, um, I was head of department at ReviewPro and then director of product marketing at Shigi. And so that's when I got deeper into the much more strategic aspects of managing, you know, a big company marketing department and a marketing mix for, I think, 60, 000 clients at that point. So. Coming to Shiji, um, actually leans much more into the product marketing side as well, which is a real passion for me, as it's very customer centric, and I love that. so yeah, to sum it up, I guess, I'm really grateful for all those experiences. Because throughout my marketing journey, I've had the experience to touch all different areas of marketing, um, sort of in a global company, which has really helped me with what I do today. So yeah,[00:03:00] Adam Mogelonsky: Awesome. So another aspect related to LinkedIn marketing and the LinkedIn executive is this word fractional for C suite roles. And if you were to look back, the Word fractional ascribed to, you know, fractional CMO, fractional CEO, fractional CTO. It wasn't really used a lot prior to the pandemic. It's really, it's, it is part of this new trend. And I'm wondering if you can unpack what this actually means in terms of tasks, time commitment, differentiators from a full time role. Zoe Koumbouzi: yeah, of course. fractional is a word I actually hadn't come across until this year, and now I'm a fractional CMO. So, um, well, it used to be called temporary business management. Fractional, like you mentioned, is a fairly new [00:04:00] term and it's risen by 57 percent since the pandemic. So it's really going along with this new way of working, um, that we've all experienced this hybrid, this, you know, people going freelance, people going fractional. and it's basically the idea that a company hires a CMO or a COO or any other C for a part time job. So, what you get really is the access to the kind of vast experience of, you know, someone like me who's been in many roles, who's had lots of experience, who's touched all areas of their profession, and you get me for a fraction of the cost and you, not as much time, right? So, how does that roll out? Um, it's a very flexible role. So, as a CMO, you might have two or even three fractional roles at the same time. And each one will have, you know, very different roles. Different and specific needs. So that might be growth. It might be expanding into new [00:05:00] markets. It might be scaling. It really depends on the company. You might be doing sort of some strategic work on, or some messaging. It could be really tactical. It could be a mixture of the two. And again, it's just when this range of experience comes in really handy. So, you know, it's really a form of working for more of your senior leadership, right? How does that fit into different business types? I think that's an important sort of question to address. Well, my view is that it's a really, really great way of working for startups. Because as a startup, what often happens is you don't have the budget. Um, and you're kind of in danger of, uh, employing maybe somebody who's a bit more of a junior marketer, but it's exactly the time in your business where you don't want somebody who's junior to be laying the foundations and doing the positioning and messaging for your baby, for your company. So it's great for those types of [00:06:00] companies to be able to hire a fractional leader for a short period of time to really get them going, or even to train up new staff as they come along. that's also a possibility scale ups. That's another, you know, you know, another different, you know, type of business. I think at that point you're wanting velocity. So you might get a CMO who's very specialized in exactly what you do and somebody who can really come in and pull your existing team together and give you that kind of ramp up and get you going and get you the traction that you need at that point in your business. Um, and then we've also got obviously enterprise companies and sometimes It's a little bit difficult maybe to see where a fractional would fit into an enterprise company, but I do believe it's a role that can, and sort of not only for your covering your parental leave or your sabbatical leave, but actually especially now companies doing more with less. When a kind of bulk of work [00:07:00] comes in or a change of direction for a company or perhaps a new product line or I don't know what, and you need somebody to get your team over the line, To sit with your other senior leaders and really ideate and really move forward. That's when a fractional CMO kind of, or C whatever role would come in really handy. So to conclude, like I think companies today are extremely lucky to have that handy. And there's more and more of us fractionals out there than ever before. So they can kind of bring us in and, take from that experience. Yeah. Adam Mogelonsky: Right, and it's almost a natural progression, and the reason I introduce the term fractional. It has existed before, but my belief is that LinkedIn as a platform is helping to facilitate companies finding these fractional leaders that they need. Would you feel that those two are interconnected in that [00:08:00] way? Zoe Koumbouzi: Yes. I haven't thought of it like that, but. You know, I think part of the rise of LinkedIn is it's absolutely dovetailing with where we are in terms of the world of work, not just in our industry, but in all industries. So the rise of fractional leaders. The fact that, we're not traveling as much for business, so we're doing our networking on LinkedIn. We're working at home, so we're doing some of our socializing on LinkedIn. It really has become, in the absence of being in the workplace as much, and of the whole idea of the workplace changing, it's really filled a gap. Absolutely, it's, um, right platform at the right time. Yeah, that's Adam Mogelonsky: Well, speaking of working from home, just to give our listeners and viewers some context on you, You are currently a fractional CMO working and living out of Barcelona. [00:09:00] So, you've lived in Barcelona now for over 20 years, I believe. Is that Zoe Koumbouzi: it. Yeah, 21 years now. Yeah. Adam Mogelonsky: So, what have you seen that is hyper local to Barcelona as it relates to the Travel tech scene, the hotel tech scene and the technology scene in Barcelona, as well as the attraction to the city for remote and hybrid work. Zoe Koumbouzi: Yeah, Barcelona. I think, um, travel, tech, hospitality, it's, feels very native to this city. Um, obviously, Barcelona practically lives off tourism, or being anti touristic, as many people around the world will have seen this summer. Um, obviously, Barcelona in terms of living here is a bit of a victim of its own success. So we have had problems with over tourism, you know, we've got sort of crackdowns on, [00:10:00] you know, on short term rentals and then hotels saying they can't really pick up the slack there because they're already full. So in terms of tourism and hospitality without the tech, we've got some work to do. I don't have the answers, but we've got some work to do in Barcelona. It still remains a great destination, but there's There's stuff. Um, in terms of tech, you know, I think the city has done an absolutely brilliant job of attracting new technology and companies and making it very attractive for people to work and live here. It already was. But, you know, we've got this kind of this Vendidos Arroba tech hub down in Poblenou, not far from where I live actually. you know, you're just seeing these massive offices go up all the time, all the time. And they've done a really, really good job. The infrastructure is good. You know, the lifestyle is good here. People are happy to relocate from other parts of Europe or all over the world to come to Barcelona. And we've got, you know, as well as [00:11:00] having some of the biggest hotel brands, obviously, we've got, you know, some tech providers like Shiji, like the Hotels Network, like Travelclick, to name a few. So. it's a buzzing place, you know, and we're also near enough to London and near enough to Berlin to be traveling up there when, when the time is right. So yeah, it's a, it's a good scene for travel tech, I'd say. Adam Mogelonsky: You know, it's, it's very interesting because you look at the quality of lifestyle in a place like Barcelona and how the city itself becomes an attraction for gaining quality team members who can work. Part time in the office and then also from home and then enjoy La Dos Vida, uh, of living in such a cool city like Barcelona. So you can totally see why it's an attraction for retaining talent. Zoe Koumbouzi: Absolutely. Absolutely. And we have, you know, new sort of, nomadic tourism [00:12:00] visas and things like that here as well. So they're definitely catching on to the trend and it's, they're doing a good job. Adam Mogelonsky: So to shift gears to back to LinkedIn, I guess the core of our topic today Transcribed Looking at LinkedIn for travel and hospitality, and of course, technology and food service per our podcast. How are these industries benefiting from this social media platform? Zoe Koumbouzi: Well, how are they benefiting? So, you know, LinkedIn is really the platform, you know, if you're in a B2B business, there's not really something else that compares to LinkedIn at the moment. If you think about people's personal marketing mix, like, I don't know what social media platforms you use, but me, for example, obviously I don't use Facebook, I don't use Twitter, X. And I actually went off Instagram last year, so that might be the same for other [00:13:00] people, they have a different mix, but the place that you can always find people is LinkedIn. So at the moment, LinkedIn has over 1 billion users worldwide. And it just seems to be this kind of linchpin because when you're using LinkedIn or you're searching on LinkedIn or you have a LinkedIn account is somehow, although it is social media and you do have to be careful of scrolling too much, it doesn't feel like it because it feels like you're expanding your professional network and you're, you're learning, which you are. I've learned a lot on LinkedIn and I've definitely expanded my network and my business. So saying that is really more than a social platform, it's actually just a marketplace for business at the moment. It's really, it's a huge marketplace and it's a great place to make business. it's a way to network and to keep in touch when we're in events. I was actually thinking the other day, like, how did people used to network before LinkedIn? as well, to [00:14:00] put it in context, you know, I've always worked in corporate and I'm now freelance, And I've sort of grown up as a freelancer in the age of LinkedIn. So, I don't understand how people did it before LinkedIn. I'm at a Adam Mogelonsky: They had a Rolodex, right? You had the, the actual roller where you inserted all your business cards in alphabetical order. Zoe Koumbouzi: Yeah, I mean, you know, I just, I, it's such a daily useful tool that I can't imagine how people sort of, especially internationally, you know, do business without it. But anyway, back to, you know, back to hospitality, um, it's so popular that I have actually seen new, newer companies opting only for LinkedIn and not having anything else at all. it's interesting, you know, of course, if you're if you are in on the hotel side You are going to need something like Instagram and TikTok because you are a B2C company But for B2B companies LinkedIn is really where it's at [00:15:00] so How are the industries benefiting you ask me? Um, apart from networking And what is known as social selling, which is basically selling, but on social networks, you can get very, very targeted information on LinkedIn. So if you do want to pay for it, um, you can segment down specifically into hotel brands and, you know, enroll and get really, really targeted about who you want to see your content. So that's, that's a very useful tool for businesses, obviously. saying that beats, um. LinkedIn is not the best source of direct lead gen, um, but it's very, very good for visibility and it's very good for kind of creating those warm leads scenarios so that you won't get you traditionally a lot of people signing up on a, you know, on a signup form or something like that. but as you know, with B2B especially, [00:16:00] and in, and in all businesses, like most, Clients will have made up or almost made up their mind before they actually speak to you. So it's really important to be thinking what they're consuming and where they're looking online before they find you, right? So of course they're going to go to your website and they're going to have a good look around, but they're also going to look on LinkedIn. And Quite possibly they're not just going to look at your company page, they're going to see people who are representing your company day by day and what those people are saying and what the thought leadership and, you know, every time somebody from your company posts on LinkedIn and they have it in their title or they're well known at your company, that's a touch point, you know, those, those impressions, those thousands of impressions that people usually get for their posts, that's thousands of people seeing your company brand. Thanks. It's quite astounding when you think as well about the [00:17:00] network effect that, you know, we may see the impressions on our posts, on a company we're managing, but the network effect means anybody interacting with that, reacting to it, obviously reposting it, has got the network effect as well, so it's very powerful when it, in terms of brand awareness, that's really the magic of LinkedIn for travel and hospitality. Adam Mogelonsky: a lot of follow up, I love what you said about LinkedIn being a marketplace now, but LinkedIn of course started as, as an online business card place, a place for networking and storing your contacts, your business contacts. And then it evolved a little bit more into a news site, which it still is through the newsfeed and thought leadership. So I'm wondering. There is a lot of news on LinkedIn. There's a lot of direct messages going around. There's a lot of people to network with. How can companies or [00:18:00] people within those companies break through the digital noise, Zoe Koumbouzi: Yes, so important question, important question. We're bombarded daily, um, with infinite, what feels like infinite scrolls and news feeds. So look, I think breaking through all of that, there's not a magic answer. Um, and like anything in life, it's all about consistency. So if you really want to triumph on a platform like LinkedIn, it's not about that one post you'll do or that one campaign you'll do. It's really about first organizing, like setting up the consistency in your messaging. And it's really important that companies are revising their positioning and messaging on a regular basis. Not just, it's not just a one time event and that is being rolled out. Consistently and clearly by all the different members of the company. That's really important [00:19:00] because consistency is really, really key. it's a great time for travel tech on LinkedIn because we're dealing with a real sea of sameness. Um, and that we're just seeing almost the same messaging and almost the same branding again and again and again. And if, you know, there's been many consolidations in our industry and that can leave clients a little bit confused as to what people are actually offering anymore on these platform approaches. But companies who actually confront this, And you actually manage to think of innovative and impactful ways to communicate what they're really, really trying to solve, really get down to what they're trying to solve. They can stand out. And, um, you know, that's really going to stand out in the long term and be, and be good with consistent messaging. apart from that, to stand out on LinkedIn, um, It's [00:20:00] important as a company to get absolutely obsessed with educational content. It's, you know, you can't be too generous on online with what you're giving and what you're talking about and what you're showing. You've got to get inside your customer's head and really understand, you know, that classic question like what keeps you up at night? Um, but you know, you've got to understand them and tap into their pain points and then. Answer those questions, speak to those, speak to those pains rather than sort of throwing solutions at them the whole time. And if you do that, and if you manage to get that into an educational, genuinely, you know, like a data report, which, you know, I've worked on many of those, or like a really informative webinar with peers on it and with a lively discussion, that's how in the long term with consistency, you can win as a company on LinkedIn. And it's not easy. It's not easy because it's a, it's a platform that's much, much, [00:21:00] much more geared to the individual and to personal branding, but it is possible. You can do it. Adam Mogelonsky: Well, mentioning it isn't easy is. It's very important to mention because LinkedIn marketing and LinkedIn educational content requires a lot of work. Like when you say being obsessed with educational content, the word obsession is, the perfect word because to be obsessed with something means you're devoting a lot of time and energy to it. So a lot of people within companies don't necessarily have that time. Whether they're not incentivized through their company to focus on LinkedIn, not yet, or they have other obligations like, you know, family. So I'm wondering is, if you had to drill down, what roles within a hotel organization or a hotel tech organization or any other company would benefit the most [00:22:00] from really becoming obsessed with LinkedIn utilization? Zoe Koumbouzi: there are, uh, strategies and processes for, for content and to make it, make it easier on a personal, as well as a company level. But short answer, which roles would benefit? Everybody, like all staff should be active on LinkedIn. Um, I mean, it's true that many people want to be active, but they just really don't know where to start or don't have time or feel they don't have time. But I think it's important for companies not to just be leaving that to individual people to kind of sort out in their spare time and just actually train the staff so that they can all be working towards a company goal. You know, like, It's true that LinkedIn accounts are not owned by the company and it shouldn't be, and people can literally do whatever they want. But it's actually [00:23:00] precisely that that makes it so powerful. So if you, and if you think about it, employee advocacy is like the new form of social proof. It really is. So, you know, I always say if companies want to get started, they can use a very, like a very, very simple strategy. Which is, like, choose a handful of people who are already semi active and sort of willing to do it. And this can be any level of the company, it doesn't have to be your executives, it can really be anybody. and invest in some training and support, help them, and then trust them. Because that's also a really key element of, you know, And I think this is, you know, where, where some companies are hesitant, train them, trust them. People are going to do it anyway. So you may as well train them and trust them. And then you've got this actual kind of like, you know, you've got this flow of LinkedIn, you know, potentially [00:24:00] LinkedIn influencers, you know, the potential of it's massive. I mean, I would actually even tie staff's KPIs to impressions. And I don't know why nobody's doing this. I've never heard of anybody doing this. I would love to, if anybody's doing this, let me know because I think it's extremely forward thinking, you know, and people seem to frown upon using social media at work, but this is B2B. Would you frown upon emailing or phoning? I've worked with some amazing salespeople and, you know, this is even way before the pandemic. And I asked them like, what's your secret? And they were like, LinkedIn. All the way back then, I mean, the highest revenue salespeople and, you know, they really, really knew what they were talking about. So you know, my, my advice to companies would be like, everybody should be involved in LinkedIn, but you can train a handful of people specifically, give them the confidence, give them the tools to go ahead and become in house influencers and then provide [00:25:00] company wide training for the rest of your staff. You can share useful links with that, you know, and I'm, I know, you know, I did that, companies do that. Thanks. Keep in mind that it does go beyond just re sharing the company's press releases because a trustworthy personal brand is about the person so they, they, you know, they can't be robotic. And it's funny, little anecdote, I've heard of a small company, not in our industry, that was actively using staff profiles for like a really, really long time. I'm really dubious about it because I think we're very good at spotting fake people. We're good at spotting AI. And, um, I don't think at the end of the day, also adding all that AI to all people's different accounts, I don't think it's scalable. Even though it's AI, I don't think it's scalable. I think it's much more scalable to train [00:26:00] your team and trust your team and get, let them get on with it, you know, and reward the ones that do it well. So don't make it an afterthought because there's really a lot of possibility if you embrace it like that. Adam Mogelonsky: Well, yeah, you, you, you talk about LinkedIn as a learning vehicle and as a B2B vehicle. And to say, don't be on LinkedIn at work is essentially saying like, Don't pick up the phone and call your client to maintain the relationship or don't attend that networking event that's happening tonight where there's going to be, you know, alcohol and you know, you need to subsidize Uber rides, et cetera. So it's very important to think about it that way, but it speaks to the shifting nature of, of the workplace because obviously you don't want people on social media at work, but if you really drill down drill to it, you don't want people on Instagram and TikTok Wasting their minds away, but you would love to have them reading news articles on on LinkedIn [00:27:00] and connecting with potential leads or strategic partners. Zoe Koumbouzi: Yeah, absolutely. And so. If you tie your staff's KPIs to their LinkedIn impressions, you're going to solve that problem. Because they're not just going to be scrolling aimlessly and get caught up in Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah. Zoe Koumbouzi: something that's not relevant to their job, right? They're going to start to post strategically, connect with the right people who expand their network, and actually take the time to build a personal brand and make it a good one. Adam Mogelonsky: The phrase I use for that, that I live my life by is show me the incentive and I'll show you the behavior. Zoe Koumbouzi: Yeah. We are, you know, programmed in certain ways. Adam Mogelonsky: yeah. So let's drill down to how you specifically help people with their LinkedIn profiles, their LinkedIn marketing, their LinkedIn thought leadership. And I want to start at the [00:28:00] top. So you talk about training and how you have select profiles who are. Advertising for the company and a lot of times that comes down to the actual executives, whether C level, VP, EVP, SVP, whatever, the brand spokespersons. What best practices would you give And train for these executives, to better use LinkedIn. Zoe Koumbouzi: when you're using LinkedIn for your personal branding, there are obviously loads of kind of practical, practical advice. I'm not going to go too deep into that sort of practical advice, you know, like Get your profile right, there's, there's a lot of different elements to that, you know, get a strategy in place, make sure that your commenting, commenting is super important. 50 percent posting, 50 percent commenting. Um, but I think the biggest [00:29:00] advice that I would give to leaders is just build up your personal brand, to the point that you're dominating your niche with thought leadership qualities. So that when people are thinking about. The need for a service or a product, you're literally positioning yourself there with that service or product. Make yourself a no brainer so that if somebody needs something, they think somebody needs LinkedIn, they think Zoe. But you know what I mean? You know, you want to be associated with your technology and you know, it's not, it's not just for freelance consultants. It's like, if you're, you could be a PMS, upsell, revenue. When I think of those technologies, there are actually people on LinkedIn that I think of associated with them. They're associated in my mind. And so by seeing that all the time, by [00:30:00] branding yourself in this thought leadership way, and by the way, I work for X company, when people are ready to, you know, to think of a provider, guess what? You'll be on the shortlist because they see you, they trust you, and you know, sales, it's about trust, it's about relationship. So, I think that the brand equity really is there, make yourself a no brainer, position yourself as a thought leader and then everything else comes along. Adam Mogelonsky: I love that you've mentioned that term, make yourself a no brainer because really that, that's what brand equity is. And of course you go to any university that they'll define brand equity as whatever. Diplomatic slash technical term, but really it's make yourself top of mind, make yourself a no brainer to reach out to whether that leads to an actual financial agreement of any sort, but you're, you're filling that funnel, uh, which is what you want LinkedIn to do for you. Zoe Koumbouzi: Yeah, yeah, exactly. And it doesn't [00:31:00] matter. I mean, we're kind of toggling between being a, being a freelancer and being, you know, working for a, for an actual, you know, company. But we're all in sales at the end of the day. Everybody, everybody who's working is kind of selling, but you know, it doesn't matter if somebody reaches out to you just, just to say hello or you have, you know, you have a connection with them. I think that's the other thing about LinkedIn. You, it's not about being disingenuous and I think. Like something that I really see a common thread when, when I do coach people and talk to people about it is that they say, I don't want to be fake, I don't want to be fake. And it's actually the polar opposite. You've got to learn to be yourself. That's definitely a journey that I've been on and it's, you think you can't do it and then you realize, Oh, I do it at work. Why can't I do it here? This is actually an extension of my workplace. It's fine. So, you know, I think it's important to be genuine. It's [00:32:00] important to be generous. you know, and that's how the world of work plays out. And you just get opportunities and people think of you or you think of somebody else and, you know, that's how it goes around. And it's the same if you're a provider, because at the end of the day, sales, sales works like that, whether you're in a company or whether you're doing it for yourself. Adam Mogelonsky: Well, you mentioned a provider. And let's drill down. We've talked about best practices for executives. Now let's look a little bit more granularly to hotel technology companies. and other vendors trying to get the eyes and ears of their target buyers, whether those are hospitality companies or otherwise. What best practices would you advise for these vendor companies to enhance their business development prospects with target buyers through LinkedIn? Zoe Koumbouzi: I think it's just super important always to talk about problems That your customers are [00:33:00] facing and not always talking about the solutions. So getting inside the bias head, understanding them, you know, speaking for them, speaking on their behalf. You know, that's how you connect in general with people. You know, you speak to their pains, and their challenges. And this applies to businesses as well. So, um, networking, you know, for B2B World is done on LinkedIn and it's done at events. So lean into that, you know, do reach out in the DMs, do create a genuine network for yourself, human to human, um, connect with people, talk to them, just like you would anywhere, you know, we're so isolated away, you know, in our homes now, it's important to reach out and that's how you do business and, you know, like we mentioned earlier, business is not just about you. You know, it's like the classic, you know, seven ways to influence. It's like, it's not a win lose, it's a win win. [00:34:00] That's how business has to be. That's good business. So reach out to people, talk to people, connect, educational content. And if you want to get more technical about it, and if I was in business development and sales, I would look at each and every person that has reacted, commented. You know, and shared the post of your company, for example, but also the influencers and the like executives or the people that are active in your company. I would look into every single one of those people as a warm lead because they have expressed an interest in your company. if the post is nothing to do with business at all, which is fine, by the way, if it doesn't, not everything has to be about business. It doesn't need to be personal, but if it's to do with anything to do with your business and somebody has clicked, that is a lead. So get in touch with them, talk to them, tell, [00:35:00] ask them why they liked it. I've done that before on my posts, you know, or, or people have reached out and I'm like, well, you know, have, connection requests and you start talking to them. So business development, that's how I would do it. scour the comments. Online behaviour speaks volumes. What people, what people like, what people comment on, it speaks volumes and so you should be scouring the comments and reactions for your company on a regular basis. Adam Mogelonsky: you talk about reaching out and I'm wondering if you could give us some do's and don'ts of sliding into the DMs. Zoe Koumbouzi: Do's and don'ts. Um, it's a tricky one. It is a tricky one. Uh, you know, I've been on both sides. Do's, I would just human to human, you know, which is not something I've coined. You'll see that on LinkedIn, but I do believe in it. Speak to other people with genuine [00:36:00] interest. ask how you can help them as well, build connections. look at what people are up to. You know, if you do, if you do kind of have a target buyer, have a look on their profile, see what they've been up to recently. Have they been to an event that perhaps you wanted to go to? Are they interested in something else that you have an interest in as well? So, you know, there's plenty of people to do business with out there, and there's no need necessarily to do business with people that don't share your common interests. So you can find people that do, and you can start there at least. So I'd say, you know, DM people with purpose, be spammy. I'm sure nobody watching this would ever be spammy anyway, but, um, it's happened to me and it's not, um, it's happened to all of us and it's, and it's not great. So just. Be yourself, but be a good person, just as in life. Adam Mogelonsky: Well, speaking about being a good person [00:37:00] and talking about how good your company is through your LinkedIn thought leadership, this raises the prospect of using LinkedIn as a recruitment tool. And I'm wondering if you could offer some guidance there in terms of how hotel and travel companies can better use LinkedIn as a recruitment tool, especially because of the L word in hospitality, that is the labor shortages that we're always faced with. What would you advise for on that front? Zoe Koumbouzi: Yeah, it's an important issue. Um, you know, assuming your company is a great place to work, which is an absolute basic requirement, and has to, and is not always the case, so that has to be addressed first, and you can't dress something up that's not. Staff. Staff, staff, staff. If your staff is using LinkedIn, and going back to my first point, and they are happy and thriving, each of their posts is an advert [00:38:00] to work at your company. Each and every post is an advert for you, if they're happy at work. So, you know, you can make corporate branding, of course, part of your strategy. You can talk about really popular, I'd say even viral topics on LinkedIn, like, um, work from home and, um, burnout and how you deal with diversity inclusion. And, you know, things that you, they have to be things that you're genuinely implementing at your company, you do care about, it can't, Be hot air. And so you can do that and you should do that. You should be using company events, yes, as part of your LinkedIn strategy. People love to see, you know, how you treat your staff, how that's going for them. And yeah, and I think, Apart from the corporate branding side, I mean I'm not in HR, but if I was in HR you can learn a lot about people by looking at their posting and commenting history. So if you're [00:39:00] actively recruiting and headhunting, which you know, especially for certain roles you really have to as an HR in a company, you have to really search for people. You can learn a lot about them and even get to know them if they're semi active on LinkedIn. Even before you've met them and they don't even have to be posting because you can see what they've commented on and what they've reacted to if you want to get really deep. So as a, you know, as a company, I would really look into that and see what people's values are. And that is a heads up as well to, you know, to people not to scare people to be like, oh, you're being watched, but more like show yourself and your values and it will help you in the job process. And the same for companies. Show yourself and your values and it will help you in the recruitment process. But the values have to be good in the first place on both counts. Adam Mogelonsky: So on, on the note of values, uh, we'll close out here. Do you have any other final thoughts, to. Help people navigate [00:40:00] this process of figuring out LinkedIn. Zoe Koumbouzi: So, you need to know two main things. When you are setting out on a LinkedIn journey, be that for a company or for yourself, for your personal brand, you need to know who you are and you need to know what your goals are. many of the issues about, I don't have time, I don't know what to post, or what will people think, which is the number one people I don't, people don't post on LinkedIn, can be solved by those two introspective questions. Who are you? What are your goals? Once you've got that down, you can start to post and everything else kind of will fall into place around it. And also just have fun. Just enjoy it. Adam Mogelonsky: Well, I would, I would reframe that to go back to something else. You said, what are you obsessed about? Zoe Koumbouzi: Exactly? Obsessed, passionate, you know, um, [00:41:00] enthusiastic, all of the above. Um, communicate that. People love that. We love to find out about what other people are passionate about and maybe it's something we can connect over. Adam Mogelonsky: yeah, Zoe Koumbouzi: absolutely. Adam Mogelonsky: Well, Zoe, thank you. It's been a great chat and, um, uh, you've really helped people to better interpret LinkedIn and, uh, and love what you're doing. Thanks for coming on, Zoe. Zoe Koumbouzi: Thank you, Adam. I love seeing your posts in my feed as well. Adam Mogelonsky: Guess it's not too long, hopefully.