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Prof T Prasad on Why Markets Make The Best Classrooms #065 · ContraMinds Podcast - Unlocking Personal Growth and Professional Excellence

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_03: So we make the students to start the startup in the day one saying that everybody has to register a company.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_03: If you don't register a company, you don't get loans.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_03: Once the company is created, the people put all their assignments to be part of it like that.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_03: And if you don't start a company, you don't get no no sir.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_03: I am not coming here for to start a company.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_03: Whether you want to start, whether you want to continue company or not, you cannot learn about company unless you do company.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_03: It's only a short-term two-year assignment for you.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_03: Once two years over, you dissolve the company.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_03: Actually, you dissolve the company, there is also an assignment.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_03: Do you know that dissolving a company is the biggest issue?
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_03: So 400 students come out with a I know 100 companies where two or three students come together.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_03: One more important thing: usually two, three students when they come together, it is double and triple the assignments.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_03: Like 30 assignments becomes 60, 60 becomes 90.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_03: It's an amazing time.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_03: They fight, they ditch.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_03: No, no, no.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_03: They also as well.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_03: What this is a life, man.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_03: No, no, he ditched me, went off.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_03: This is what is going to happen after five years for you.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_03: You should get ready for it.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_03: You write an assignment and give me how it ditched you.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_04: Hello everyone.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_04: Welcome to another edition of Contraminds.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_04: In this episode, we have a very accomplished educator, a radical thinker, and he's somebody who's evolved a path of thinking for himself on how to teach and group his students.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_04: I have today with me Professor Prasad, fondly called as Mandi sir, and he's a professor with IM Mumbai.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_04: Professor Prasad has completed his PhD in organizational behavior, and his interest includes leadership, startups, organizational culture, and he's also running the Center for Startups at IM Mumbai.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_04: He's run an award-winning pedagogic program called the Mahamandi, which has been widely recognized, and he's won several awards for this program.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_04: It's a great privilege to have Professor Prasad with us over to my conversation with Professor Prasad.
• 2:17
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• 2:20
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• 2:29
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• 2:39
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• 3:28
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you very much for the audience.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_03: And uh yes, my background, my brother, the path that I walked, that gave me an idea, and that helped me to create a method of learning, which we call it as pedagogy to andragogy to hetagogy.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_03: I I request the audience to look at hetagaji, which is basically Swaraja, Swatantra, Swayatha, Swayam, basically taking oneself, becoming the center for and be able to drive one's life.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_03: Actually, this was my path.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_03: If you look at around 30 crore souls, around 5 crore graduate students, around 20-25 crore, the school going students.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_03: If you look at 30 crore students, they don't have any work in the name of education, and they are basically said that absjure your work.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_03: If you're getting educated, you're not supposed to work.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_03: So that is the whole no changed my contrarian thinking saying that actually the the ills of education came from that particular instance.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_03: How come 30 crore people can't work for 20 years?
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_03: Hi, what is this?
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_03: And the whole education came out of it.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_03: Today, the the kind of attention deficiency which we are suffering.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_03: So, this particular method of learning came out of my personal experience.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_03: But when I looked at the unemployment, I looked at the placement, when I looked at this value creation, when I looked at the technology explosion, I can't stop myself.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_03: And the whole problem of higher education is this.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_04: But do you believe this is the problem with all Ivy League education, not just in India, but even in the US and Europe?
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_04: And in fact, you talk about the European model, which is actually having a certain kind of an apprentice model, which you believe works very well.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_04: So, can you talk to us a little bit about the European model?
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_03: Who are coming to Ivy League?
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_03: They're all no obes wealth, like wealthy people, they come there.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_03: But this 1%, 2% is not this thing.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_03: This Ivy League model can help for top 1%, 5%.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_03: They're happy, they're all good.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_03: Question is not about what happened to this top 1%, this thing.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_03: What's happening to the 99% is a bigger issue.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_03: So we require a contrarian thinking.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_04: So, how does Europe uh build this model and uh what are the tenets that you have picked up in how you now teach and how you make students learn in higher education?
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_03: Most of the people talk about apprentices, internships talk about it.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_03: I I don't like basically even apprentices, I I criticize basically.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_03: Please understand, the even European countries are facing today's problem.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_03: 50 years back, apprentice was a great thing.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_03: Today, apprentice internship cannot serve the purpose.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_03: We require entrepreneurial methods like that.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, and there are amazing kind of uh writing coming up, but academics are completely they are close, they're closing their eyes.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_03: Please understand with the placements with the kind of internships which they are talking about, they are ruining, they are harming the generation actually.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_03: So, education to all is not happening.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_03: Number one, number two, even the best educated are uselessly used, very low-level usage is going to be there.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_03: That's a big kind of thing.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_03: Today, the whole corporate problems came because of this particular bad use.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_03: So, I even don't subscribe to the the European model, US model, but we have our own Indian model actually.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_03: Basically, please understand work-based education is a very simplest thing.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_03: This doesn't mean that vocational education.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_03: Lot of people think that vocational education, no, it's not actually an ITI engineer when they do a Karakpur student, for example, a mechanical engineering, electrical student who breaks this tube light on the railway tracks.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_03: I have seen one video where you know one student was breaking his tube light on the stake, saying that what useless thing this particular degree.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_03: How come an ITS IIT student says that electrical engineering, mechanical engineering is useless?
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_03: And the professor says that you will have a use after 10 years, 15 years, 20 years.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_03: No.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_03: Can I get use today one rupee?
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_03: Demonstrate one rupee, I can make it two rupees.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_03: Demonstrate one rupee, I can make five rupees.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_03: So opportunities are there.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_03: We require to be radically think differently, but most important thing is that non-violently, inexpensive way, not expensive way.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_03: This is contrarian is always inexpensive, not expensive.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_03: It is not wasteful, it is very productive.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_03: That's contrarian.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_03: Is never itself wasteful, actually.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_03: So when you say radical, it should be fruitful, it should be non-violent.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_03: And my point is that whether it directors of this university, vice-chancellors, directors of this, IITs, IMs, whether they do it or not, students are going to do.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_03: So the issue is that conceptual to application to value creation.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_03: Application is basically can be looked at in a productive, working, value generative style.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_03: The name is the tag is selling.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_03: Selling is not exploitational.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, marketing people can understand this far better than anybody else.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_03: There is a need which you are fulfilling, you are soliciting whether you can fulfill the need.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_03: In return, there is going to be a benefit.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_03: It is a mutually, it's like a marriage, it's like a relationship.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_03: And learning is not avoiding failures, fearing failures.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_03: The contrarian thinking is inviting failures.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_03: Only thing is medicated, meditated, planned, experimented kind of thing, so that it's not suicidal.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_04: So how do you do it?
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_04: How do you do it, Professor?
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_04: So wonderfully.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, can you talk to me about one prop that you pick up and talk about how you do that?
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, nice.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_03: You know, if you do care Bombay, this is a very common kind of a Diwali Kandil.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_03: This is a Diwali Kandil.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_03: So, but this is being sold by uneducated people for IIT professors, and IIT professor never ceased an educative product.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_03: Actually, there is an amazing kind of engineering in it.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_03: See the kind of pattern, how beautifully it came out of it like that.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_03: Look at the kind of thing.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_03: So, simple question which I ask my students is how many pieces are there in it?
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_03: This is an amazing kind of question, like that.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_03: There is a fixed number of pieces in it involved in that.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_03: Actually, if you look at the pieces, same pieces, only colors got changed.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_03: This is basically rhombus.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_03: Rhomboid rhombus, actually.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_03: So there are 30 rhombites, which has got at 60 equilateral triangles, came out and came out with a particular kind of a shape.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_03: No math students should understand immediately saying that if I put 30 rhombuses together, it covers this sphere of the particular globe.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_03: The more important thing, it is not about practice, is the whole question is that you go out, sell this is the mathematical product, come back, then you talk about it, is the whole issue.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_03: This is the whole idea.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_03: I give this particular try to my engineering college students, engineering my engineering students who come for an MBA and say want to do uh a customer relationship, you want to create value, you want to satisfy this thing, you go sell this as engineering product.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_03: This is no sell it's an engineering product, it's a biology product.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_03: Is there nothing doing it is an engineering product?
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, so what is engineering in it?
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_03: I give this to the biology student, say that you should tell it, sell it as an engineering product.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_03: So a a boy and a girl, an engineer and answer and a doctor both together go there and they will be able to change their reverse roles and they'll be doing the exercise so well, and they might start a company tomorrow.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_03: The simple question I will ask you, do you have this in your home?
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_03: I can say 99% people say that we don't have this particular toy now.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_03: This thing.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_03: I say that all useless things are there in your home.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_03: Why don't we have a useful thing so that your body pain will not be there?
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_03: For example, this is a simple, this is sold for 800 rupees.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_03: You come out to the airport of this particular no international airport.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_03: I bought one and I copied it actually.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_03: Simple product, why you require 800 rupees for it?
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_03: Because a physics professor is useless.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_03: That is the reason why it became 800 rupees.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_03: If if a physics professor should be able to sell every day 100 toys, thousand toys, then he will be automatically teaching with the thousand toys to the physics to the people.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_03: The question is that if I throw it, it should come back.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_03: If I am spending, I should get back my money.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_03: Contrarian thinking is when you spend today, get after 10 years, is not a contrarian thinking.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_03: Contrarian thinking is I will spend from this packet, I will get from that packet.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_03: The urgency to retrieve the value is the most important thing in business.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_03: The business logic is not to spread 10 years, 20 years, 30 years, 50 years after I get a value.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_03: Instantaneously, no, some people say no, no, you it's not possible to do it like that.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_03: Think contrarian.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_03: Is it possible or not?
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_03: Design it like that.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_03: Today we are talking about you know samples with a 10 ml.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_03: We are talking about I was I was really got separate.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_03: I was putting my hair, no, this aisle.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_03: So you got a two rupees bucket like that.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_03: I was looking at a coffee, this small such, no, two rupees.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_03: So you can retrieve the money quickly, more important rather than getting after no ten years to find out five or two.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_04: So, what do you do is that you check you send these students to the market and they actually start selling this.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_04: So, therefore, for example, you they start thinking about value proposition.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, what is this?
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_04: What is this?
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_04: Absolutely.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_03: Tell me how many math students have got a this try in their toilet.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_03: I asked these students if I put two these things, what happens?
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_03: Most of the people cannot tell it because they never played it.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_03: There is a difference in terms of one and two.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_03: Simple thing it is, it's such an idiotic thing.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_03: You don't require to.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_03: I I got imported 3,000 rupees for this toy.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_03: This is the pathatic thing of this particular country, make in India, import India is the whole this thing like that.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_03: I tell the student saying that if you are a physics student, you should be able to sell thousand toys, ten thousand toys, and this is kind of thing.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_03: So please, I mean he will understand physics very well if it is played with this particular toy, like this.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_03: So, one of my students, this boy, you know, this boy Ravi Jalan and also his wife Disha Katrani, and Disha is from ISB Hyderabad.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_03: Sir, I am students also love ISB girls.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_03: It's not that no, only ISB boys will love IM girls actually.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_03: It's not that.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_03: I don't mind for it.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_03: Why should I bother about it?
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, Ravi Jalan and also Disha, they started this company.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_03: They just came for I mean, Sharp Tank very recently is my student.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_03: He sold these toys and he exports toys internationally today.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, he's there on Sharp Tank, and he says, Sir, there is a huge market for toys, and he sold these toys in Bombay Street as an assignment.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_03: If you don't sell it, you don't get marks.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_04: So tell me, uh so, therefore, now when I go to the market, when I start actually uh you know getting to understand this, uh then I come back to the class.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_04: How do you now tell them that okay, positioning means this, culture means this, leadership means this, pricing means this?
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_04: So, how do you now convert this into the classroom and how do you then bring it for them to learn?
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, actually, before they go it naturally, they are already bombarded with marketing classes, communication classes, economics classes, they got bored of it.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_03: The moment they got into the the market, customer they understood the whole kind of thing, saying that oh ho, this is the whole world positioning, pricing, targeting, customer pain point.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_03: Actually, we are just releasing them to the market, Mandy, Bajar, Santa, Angadi.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_03: They come back with amazing kind of insights, and they are made to write assignments.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_03: If they don't write an assignment, you don't get marks.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_03: Go to my Mandisar website and you can see thousands of students videos on it like that.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_03: Uh you know, graduate students, undergraduate students, actually they start thinking about actually market is basically imagination more than just I mean reading from the book and they can also talk like a coatler, they start understanding saying that, they look at competitors, they look at other people, they look at simplest people and say that how differently they are doing it.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_03: So, multiple subjects, communication, economics, strategy, operations, pricing.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_03: Every every subject will be able to give them an assignment, and they will be creating these assignments.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_03: And I have something basically saying that I loved your word basically, a necklace of assignments.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_03: That we will we'll talk more on that as you ask.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_04: I I really want to get there, uh, Professor, because I heard you say that I think the whole education system is built on fragmented assignments, right?
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_04: Because I read you know, I do economics, I do some assignments.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_04: I do, you know, there is an assignment.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_04: There's a chemistry, there is assignment.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_04: I do uh you know uh uh entrepreneurship, there is an assignment.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_04: But I think you made a very interesting point saying that if you want students to learn better, actually assignments need to be connected.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_04: So explain that that actually amplifies learning, is what you said.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_04: Tell me tell me a little bit about that.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you you go to any college, no C we do it like that, and you have to submit it in so in time, all is fine for the church, and they do it very I mean do it like that, and the the insistence insisting by the faculty is extreme kind of thing.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_03: Actually, faculty take as if that's a prestige for them to make the students' assignment.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_03: This is the good thing which they do it like that, but the problem is after assignment, what they do.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_03: The problem with economics professor with the marketing is that they have a they have a tug of what no, I am bigger than you, they don't talk to each other actually.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_03: Have you seen any time economics and marketing professor coming to the class?
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_03: Rarely, yeah, rarely, the student will get confused.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_03: So the problem is that the the connecting, the collaborating, assembling, aligning is missing.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_03: I feel ashamed when I looked at the number of assignments which go to Radhiwala sin, including IAMs, PhD theses, PhD thesis will go to Radhiwala.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_03: Actually, I put I put out my thesis actually.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_03: So this is a hard effort like that.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_03: No, no, no, uh no no, don't say every thesis cannot be done.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_03: Who said every thesis to do it?
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_03: You do one thesis out of hundred, you make it like that.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_03: The question is that so we make the students to come out with each of the assignments is a jewel, a diamond, a good stone after fit.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_03: But only thing is if you put all of them into one particular bus.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_03: And automatically it comes out into a kind of a flower bokeh.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_04: So, do you really do that in your institute, for example?
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_03: So, this is a company laulte.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_03: This is an assignment, and this is comes out different assignments being done by economic communication strategy kind of thing.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_03: So, this is one my assignment for entrepreneurship.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_03: Completing he will write it like that.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_03: Actually, the student will see the relationship of one subject to the next subject to the next subject to the next subject to the next subject.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_03: Actually, what faculty cannot see, he will fill the gaps.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_03: A faculty can never see it.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_03: Economics profession, why he will see a strategy?
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_03: Why strategy profility marketing?
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_03: Why marketing profitability entrepreneurship?
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_03: No, no, no, no, it's my not subject, it's your subject, they say that.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_03: But the whole KD making is should be done by this particular student.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_03: He understands the taste of the KD, he understands the value of the KD.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_03: One of the biggest issues, this particular thing is teachers have got rivalries, they got a competition.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_03: I published more, you published less, or you published more, I published less.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_03: This is the including top.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_03: Everybody has got this thing.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_03: They never bother to bring these assignments together.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_03: One request from your contrarian thinking is to the vice chancellors and directors, please ensu to see that into the assignments bring together, make a quilt, padika.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_03: Tamil, they call it as padikka, hindi they call it as razai.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_03: Grandmas do all wasteful things, bring together and create an amazing kind of a this thing.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_03: Please, this is not my my sub this thing.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_03: There is one uh Saras Saraswati.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_03: I request you to put up this part of this particular this thing.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_03: Then she talks about effectuation principles.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_03: One of the principles she talks about Saras is from Tamil, amazing lady.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_03: She contributed amazingly the methodology of the way of learning entrepreneurship.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_03: She completely changed.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_03: She said that it is not that only rich people, children can make it, it's basically you don't require resources, whatever resources you have based upon that, you can do a contrarian thinking.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_03: I wish you should invite Saras for a uh a presentation on it.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_03: The problem, this particular responsibility is on the student, how he will make I mean no, how he will combine this particular 207 bones.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_03: If your 207 assignments are there, if you combine them, it becomes a skeleton.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: Beautiful.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_03: No, no, he is putting head here and leg here.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_03: He will understand that legs will come here only, not here.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_04: The gynecologist should talk to the uh cardiologists, and if all of them work together, only the human being can be actually made to live.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_04: Similarly, what you're saying is assignments, assignments need to be built like a connected piece across uh students' course, and that is critical.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_04: And you are really emphasizing the fact that when they go to the market, the problems are not subjects, but they actually are a common problem, and there is an economic problem, there is a marketing problem, psychological problem.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_04: All this need to be brought together and therefore bring the assignments together.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_03: And and please understand the pain is not taken on the teacher, pain is taken by the student.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_03: Please, when delivery is done by the particular girl, doctor is not taking pain.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_03: The pain is taken by the this thing.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_03: The student will take it and they enjoy it.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_03: Please, they enjoy it because they know that the more they have a pain after fate, they are benefited, they are getting value out of it.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: Contraminds is a podcast dedicated to decoding people, minds, strategy, and culture.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_00: We interview and learn from high performers so that you can apply these lessons on your journey to becoming the knowledge worker athlete you are meant to be.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_00: The Contraminds podcast is available on all leading podcast players.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: And if you are interested in revisiting past episodes or taking a look at our show notes from this episode, please visit us at www.contraminds.com.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: And now back to the show.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_04: So uh so Professor Prasad, one question that I have is you are one uh you know uh I would say teacher who really I heard you say exam marks are not the best markers for learning.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_04: Right?
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_04: So why do you say exam markers are not the best markers for learning?
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, no, this was good 50 years back, 100 years back, they were good, but today it's not actually you know they are every student, 10 people are observing he should not copy, he's not imported, he's not deported.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_03: That's the whole problem, and he is anyhow doing it.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_03: So exams have lost their relevance in the new context.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_03: For example, I mean, the answers which they can give it is can be very different like that.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_03: So, from information to such anatom to action, application, creation of value is a new exam.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_03: We are not I mean, divide a lot of people say that no, no, no, they have to come to the class, they have to come to the class.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not saying that they are not coming to the class, we are just saying that the assignments are seemed to be looking together so that value is created.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_03: If they are spending 20 lakh rupees, can they make one lakh, two lakh, three lakh out of these 20 lakh rupees?
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_03: It's not a bad idea.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_03: No, no, you are money-minded, you are only you are only lakshmi conscious, you are not looking at a saraswati.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_03: No, utility of this thing cannot be measured.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_03: Actually, utility can be contrarian thinking.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_03: That's what the whole program is that how a grandfather is so chan away, how a grandson will think contrarian today.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_03: Whole idea is that so it can be done this way.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_03: So we make the students to start the startup in the day one, saying that everybody has to register a company.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_03: If you don't register a company, you don't get marks.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_03: Once the company is created, the people put all their assignments to be part of it like that.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_04: Very nice.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, so you are you are forcing people to really start a company.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, general company.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, and if you don't start a company, you don't get no no sir.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_03: I am not coming here for to start a company.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_03: Whether you want to start, whether you want to continue company or not, you cannot learn about company unless you do company.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_03: It's only a short-term two-year assignment for you.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_03: Once two years over, you dissolve the company.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_03: Actually, you dissolve the company, there is also an assignment.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_03: Do you know that dissolving a company is the biggest issue?
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_04: Correct.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_03: Taking divorce is much difficult compared to getting married.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and men should understand.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_04: So, literally, you actually get them to register a company, and then you then all assignments for that company on strategy.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_04: What is the product, what is the distribution, what is the pricing, everything is then linked back to that one thing, and therefore, then I started learning about business, and that's how the MBA comes to life, is what you're saying.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, the spirit, the the spirit is being put into it like that.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_03: Please understand, we have to put the spirit into it like that, and it is his company, it's not my company, it's his company.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_03: So, 400 students come out with a I know uh 100 companies where two, three students come together.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_03: One more important thing, usually two, three students when they come together, it is double and triple the assignments.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_03: Like 30 assignments becomes 60, 60 becomes 90.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_03: It's an amazing time.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_03: They fight, they ditch.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_03: No, no, no.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_03: They also I said what this is a life, man.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_03: No, no, he ditched me, went off.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_03: This is what is going to happen after five years for you.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_03: You should get ready for it.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_03: You write an assignment and give me how he ditched you.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_03: What are the principles you have to take into consideration?
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_03: Somebody is ditching you.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_04: So basically, you are saying that if there is a co-founder fight, you should know how to handle it.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_04: Absolutely, or if you have a fight with your uh leadership, then how do you handle it?
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_04: So, you're saying all this gets embedded in the way you actually build this Mundi, and then the Mandi becomes standing, and therefore the company, and therefore you connect everything.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_04: And how are other professors reacting to your idea?
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_04: And do they cooperate to ensure that something like this happens?
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, thanks to my colleagues for the last 20-25 years.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, some of them are really good at which they cooperated, and uh, I thank uh my colleagues, and it could happen, but of course, there are deviants, they say they don't want to be.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_03: It's okay, no problem for that.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_03: But once students get an idea that it couldn't happen, that's where we want to drive it.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_03: Like you can imagine, four or five faculty are more than enough for me to make a beginning like that.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_03: Student understands, the patient understands whether the other doctors are doing or not is least important for me.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_03: And I got a fund from the Department of Science and Technology.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_03: I'm I'm running Native Center for Student Startups, and I got a unicorn scheme out of this process, and when they put together they understand better, and teachers' acceptance doesn't matter today.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_03: Actually, that's what I feel it.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_03: But there are people, there are people.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_03: Most of the people they say that what you're doing, good work, but please.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_03: I said, Okay, it's no problem for that.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_04: So you also talk about a very, I would say, controversial point that you make, which is to say intelligent students become employees.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_04: So I think what do you and what is the long-term impact of that?
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's it's most damaging like that.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_03: Please, idiotic people become in implies nothing, I mean the economy will not be affected, but intelligent people are misused by the unintelligent people as owners.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_03: Please understand.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, I mean you know that.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_03: I mean today, you look at the hard words and I will be recruited by whom?
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_03: Who are the people?
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_03: Be a past, become past.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_03: So, how they use it?
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_03: So, we need an educated who is ethical, educated who is an excellent, rather than uneducated, we are expecting to be ethical and also excellent, which is impossible.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_04: So it's almost like what you say is that we are generating more job doers, but you are saying your vision is to actually create students who are job givers.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_03: Definitely.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_03: Even I would like to put it this like that even 10% of the population, if you are able to create job givers, that's more than enough.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_03: How come you can say that 10% cannot be done?
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_03: They are not born for it.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_03: Who said it is a lie?
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_03: Actually, we are making misfits.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_03: This is the damage which education is doing, and especially higher education is doing.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_03: They are forcing people to become knockers, employees, servants, S Bas.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_03: Forcing 100% placement means there is 10% error.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_03: Because 10% people they don't fit to become employees.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_03: No, no, they are expressed that they want to become.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_03: Actually, we you create that seed behind them saying that startup, they join the company within no time, they will leave out like that.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_03: I'll give an amazing example for it like that.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_03: For example, I was talking about the gentleman called Nodi Imagi Make.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_03: He joined E and Y.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_03: He joined E and Y.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_03: He loved the girl Disha there, both started a company.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_03: Four years worked and came out like that.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_03: But this particular seed has come in the classroom.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_03: That's the whole idea.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_03: For example, there is a company called Lantan, which was started by Mandeep Maneet Gohin.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_03: He joined Flipkart.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_03: He joined Flipkart, worked for only six months.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_03: He joined the company with a condition saying that I will not work for more than six months with you.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_03: I will do six years work in only six months for you.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_03: Any entrepreneur will say, any founder will say, Bansal will say, We love you.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_03: And he joined there, he worked for six months, one year.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_03: He got out and he got a funding in his thing.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_03: Actually, they were interested to fund the company, Lolted.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_03: But he said, I don't want it for you.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_03: This thing I got from uh ITC some topics you could do in invested in it like that.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_03: So, this idea is that placement should be able to create a kind of a unhappiness for them saying that I need not, yeah, yeah, nothing wrong with that.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_03: There's nothing wrong.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_04: So, so literally, uh, you've got you know, Cashify is a unicorn, you've got uh, you know, almost about top 10 unicorns were actually built through the assignments and through the Mundi kind of a learning that people did.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_04: And these companies I just calculated, uh Professor Prasad, uh, almost about 10 to 15,000 jobs they have been able to create.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_04: So that's the kind of employees that these companies have created, right?
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_03: Amazing kind of companies which you got in Nagpur, Indian Autogas by this Rahul Gugalya, amazing kind of gentlemen.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_03: The gentleman came in the classroom.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_03: I still recall.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_03: He said, Sir, I am resting the company.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_03: I said, Wow, beautiful like that.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_03: So square heads by Vivekarwal, amazing.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_03: They send me the t-shirts.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_03: Actually, there are bun, I mean, so many t-shirts with me.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_03: Actually, so they they send me, and I'll be you know, using like the Cassify.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you can use this.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, okay.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_03: This is electric vehicles charging network he created.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_03: Amazing gentleman, SP Institute of Management, SP Institute of Engineering.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, this thing, and after that, he did his thing.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_03: Maxon, the gentleman like that.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_03: So it's much easy.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_03: Please understand the method of learning.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_03: We should be able to change it.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_03: That's the whole idea.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_03: This boy came and he started a company.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_03: So it's it's a rule that everybody should receive a company.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_03: Automatically, once you made a rule and they love it, they don't hate it.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_03: Actually, I go to different universities across the country, Mahindra University, Andrag University, I go to Veltec University, Aadar.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_03: I go to I was at um you know the uh dental college called uh Sabita University Dental College, Virapa.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_03: Uh Virapa is Viraya is the the kind of thing.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_03: Is a former son he created an amazing kind of dental and engineering college in in Chennai.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_03: I went there, so I go to different colleges and speak about it.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_03: We make undergraduate students loving it.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_03: Unfortunately, so-called Ivy League, these things they are still copying XYZ, and copy masters cannot become big.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_03: Copy masters will be written there only.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_03: This is the problem.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_04: How does your institute support you and how does the government support you in this cause?
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_04: And is this something that has been widely adopted?
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_04: Because I am Mumbai is probably at the epicenter of economy, right?
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_04: It's the financial capital of India.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_03: So uh I got best support from my directors earlier, also, and even my current director also and encourages so much for that, they support me, and uh I mean, otherwise, I will not be able to do it.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_03: Even allowing this kind of thing itself is a big kind of thing.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_03: But our only thing is the the we require to make it much much bigger is the whole idea, like that.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_03: So, unless we do it, it cannot be going for.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_03: So, if we if we have to create, we can create this thing, it's it's not difficult like that.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_03: This is by you know uh Bansal created, but these are not from the college kind of thing, they just randomly just by fluke they happen, but here it is by design we are trying to make it.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_03: The the Prime Minister of India is talking about startup India.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_03: We celebrated 10 years, there are no jobs for the student, it doesn't mean that it's a nightmarish, no, it's not actually it's much better to be there, no job, so that you are forced to think contrarian way and you are able to create results.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_03: And time has come for education, education to all, education, best education to all can come out with when I stand on my own legs.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_03: Actually, standing on my legs, keeping my head held high is not a bad idea.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_04: What does uh success mean to you?
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_03: Success is basically I say very simple kind of thing.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_03: I should be able to know what is the truth in this world, that's the whole idea.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_03: Truth and in a non-violent way, and I should be able to stand truth, non-violence, and also self-reliance.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_03: Simple.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, I am not dependent on somebody else, and I can make help others to depend on me.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_03: That can be self-reliance and also Atmanidvar, and also be able to help others, but at the same time, I am not violent, but I am radically different, as you said about yes, and it can be as non-violent as possible.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_03: In the ultimate this thing, Satasodhana.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_03: What is the truth in this world?
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_03: Why am I leaving?
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_03: Who am I?
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, correct, correct.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_04: So uh the next question that I have is uh what's one piece of advice that you got in your life, which you love you would have got a lot, but which you really value and remember even today.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_03: No, actually, I mean be on your own independent because the times are basically to be an independent, be innovative, think about yourself, you'll be able to take things, decisions like that.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_03: The times are ripe for individual to be innovative.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_03: Times are ripe.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_03: If the individual is not innovative, he becomes one more another brick in the wall.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_03: We don't want another brick in the wall.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_03: We want to become another mansion, we want to become another kind of thing rather than one more brick in the wall.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_03: So individuals can be innovative today.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_03: Technology is ripe for it, times are ripe for it, and I see amazing kind of opportunities for the youth.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_04: Uh if uh you were to call three people, uh living or dead, for dinner, uh who would you call and why you would you call them, and what would you like to learn from them?
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_03: Of course, Gandhi, Ambedkar.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_03: I love these amazing to see, like, and also uh uh greatest engineer uh uh Mokshaguna Vishwesh Ray.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_03: I generally discuss these case studies.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_03: They are unique people which they brought it like of course Bhagavad Singh can be there in that.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_03: But Gandhi Ambetka.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_03: Actually, I wish to have both of together and then do it like that.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_03: Actually, I love this actually.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_03: I can show two of them in there always in my in my cabin actually.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_03: Nice.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_03: I see no conflict between these two, actually.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_03: It's absolutely no need for it like that.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_03: Actually, I give these two books to my students.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_03: Say that I say that if you buy one, the other should become free for you like that.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_03: No gift as it is.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_03: That is my kind of thing.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_03: So these are these are people amazingly thought about they are not 50 years back people, 100 years back people, they are next 50 years people.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_03: One talked about Vavastha, other talked about Vekti.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_03: One talked about system, one talked about internal system.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_03: Of course, I mean Maksaguna Vishwavish again is an amazing towering personality.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_03: And who can who is even far beyond than even Gandhi and Vedkarina for that?
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_03: Whatever, whatever, whatever figures like that these people like that.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_03: So angsters should look for these kinds of things.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_03: Of course, we have every other corner, we have these people actually, aren't they?
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you, Professor Prasad.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_04: Lovely talking to you.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_04: The enthusiasm, the authenticity, the commitment, the love and passion for what you do.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_04: Really came out in this conversation.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you very much for.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_03: I'll sing the song and close it if you don't mind.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_04: Sure, sure.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_03: Becho becho becho sequ seeka usiko becho.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_03: Jabjapsika Turanthu Becho.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_03: Jaha seeka vahi becho.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_03: Jitana seeka pura becho.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_03: Jabja seika turant dabi becho.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_03: Dishika usiko becho contrarian se seekna contrary ko ulta bech.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_03: That's a contrarian theki.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_04: Thanks.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_04: Thanks, Dr.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_04: Prasad.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you very much.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_04: It's lovely talking to you.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_04: Thanks for listening to this episode.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_04: For selected links and detailed show notes, visit www.contramines.com.
• 45:04
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• 45:09
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• 45:15
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• 45:17
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• 45:27
  SPEAKER_04: Thanks for listening and stay safe.