Latest / The Right Time with Bomani Jones / Howard Bryant on 1996 World Series: The Braves’ Heartbreak & Birth of a Yankees Dynasty | 10.06

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Howard Bryant on 1996 World Series: The Braves’ Heartbreak & Birth of a Yankees Dynasty | 10.06 · The Right Time with Bomani Jones

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  Speaker 1: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to The Right Time presented by PrizePix.
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: My name is Bomani Jones. Thanks for listening wherever you
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• 0:19
  Speaker 1: a hater. It is Time Machine Tuesday. We got my man.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: man the myth the legend the author of the excellent
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  Speaker 1: kings and pawns that because it's always sitting here on
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  Speaker 1: the desk i put up with howard brian is on
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  Speaker 1: how are you sir.
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  Speaker 2: Good morning bromani jones are we going back going back
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  Speaker 2: to you know are we going back to pain for
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  Speaker 2: you we're going back to pain.
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  Speaker 1: We're we're going to go to some happiness that lead
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  Speaker 1: or like pain that leads we're kind of going to
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  Speaker 1: start with Okay, we're going to talk about the 1996
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  Speaker 1: World Series.
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  Speaker 2: We are in the 30th anniversary.
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  Speaker 1: Very important, by the way. Many things to say about that.
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  Speaker 1: It is a hugely important World Series in terms of
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  Speaker 1: the way... It's one of those pivots.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, in terms of the way that we think about
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  Speaker 2: the history of baseball. And massively underrated in that regard.
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  Speaker 2: When people say, like, the what if and how things turn,
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  Speaker 2: if that series goes in the other direction... We had
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  Speaker 2: a whole different history. Yep.
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  Speaker 1: Like the fulcrum, obviously, for this is game five of
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  Speaker 1: this series. We will slowly build up to 15-year-old, 16-year-old
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  Speaker 1: Beaumont getting kicked in the nuts by a guy named
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  Speaker 1: Jim Leyritz.
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  Speaker 3: We have time to get there.
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  Speaker 1: But I think the lead up to this, obviously, is
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  Speaker 1: the 1980s, which I think is interesting because the 80s
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  Speaker 1: has a main character for the Braves that turns into
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  Speaker 1: a main character for the Yankees, which is Joe Torrey. Um,
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  Speaker 1: something that I think people of a certain generation do
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  Speaker 1: not quite remember is that Braves won the Braves won
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  Speaker 1: the National League West in the first year of the
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  Speaker 1: division in 1969. And then they won it again in
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  Speaker 1: 1982 when their manager was Joe Torrey. They fired Joe Torrey.
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: I want to say after 83 or 84, though, the
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  Speaker 1: word in my house was always is because they wanted
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  Speaker 1: him to fire Bob Gibson because Bob Gibson was the
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  Speaker 1: pitching coach. I don't know if that was actually true,
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  Speaker 1: but I am certain that Bob Gibson was an awful
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  Speaker 1: pitching coach. I cannot imagine the pressure that comes from
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  Speaker 1: trying to live up to the standard of Bob Gibson.
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  Speaker 2: As your pitching coach. The fact that he and Joe
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  Speaker 2: were best friends. Yes, yes.
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  Speaker 1: And also like back to an era when your coaches
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: were allowed to hit you, which means that it's always
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: possible that Bob Gibson would punch you because Bob Gibson
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: was punching people into his 80s.
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  Speaker 2: Driving miles to chase people in road rage. Road rage,
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  Speaker 2: road rage.
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  Speaker 1: Bob Gibson was so terrifying that white people of the 60s,
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: Talk about how terrifying Bob Gibson was and laugh about it.
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  Speaker 2: And love him now. It seemed like they loved him then.
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  Speaker 2: They did, but he's now the example of everything that's
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: gone wrong. You know, that Bob Gibson were around. I mean,
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  Speaker 2: how many times can you name a black man out
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  Speaker 2: there that white people want disciplining them? Bob Gibson were here. Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: He wouldn't let that happen. But they also know that
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  Speaker 2: Bob Gibson.
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  Speaker 1: Would hit those wavering Negroes also in the kidneys for
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: taking too long going around the bases.
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  Speaker 2: And you know his response for it, right? His response
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  Speaker 2: for that was, well, they were the best players. They
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  Speaker 2: were the ones who were going to beat me. I
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: had to put them down. Yep. Yep. Yep. Bob Gibson, right?
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  Speaker 2: I had to put them down. Whoever it was. I
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  Speaker 2: had to get it.
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  Speaker 3: I love the idea of Tim McCarver coming from white
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  Speaker 3: Memphis and learning about black people through the lens of.
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  Speaker 2: I'm terrified of Bob Gibson. I got Bob Gibson. I
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  Speaker 2: got Bill White. I am terrified. I got Bill White.
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  Speaker 2: I got Flood. I got Brock. I got Gibson. Yes.
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  Speaker 2: My favorite, Halberstam tells that story. The late, great David
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  Speaker 2: Halberstam in the book October 64, where, you know, when
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  Speaker 2: you walked into that Cardinals clubhouse, Bob Gibson was going
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  Speaker 2: to test you to see what kind of man you were,
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  Speaker 2: especially what kind of white man you were. in the 1960s. And,
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  Speaker 2: you know, um, McCarver was drinking a soda with a
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  Speaker 2: straw one day and Bob looked at him and said, Hey,
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  Speaker 2: can I have a sip? You know, and McCarver, of course,
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  Speaker 2: you know, white kid from Memphis was not going to
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  Speaker 2: let some black man share his straw. So McCarver was
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  Speaker 2: pausing going, what do I, and like, what do I do?
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  Speaker 2: I mean, I can't offend the great Bob Gibson, but,
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  Speaker 2: but I ain't drinking off no black man. And he
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  Speaker 2: looked at Gibson and he said, I'll save you some. Well,
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  Speaker 2: that was the pitch. In today's 21st century, youngins don't
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  Speaker 2: know what that means. But I mean, that was, and
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  Speaker 2: Gibson didn't want his soda. He just wanted to see
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  Speaker 2: what kind of man he was. Yes. Yes. We all knew.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, I don't drink off anybody's straw today, but
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  Speaker 2: back then we knew exactly what was what was happening.
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  Speaker 3: Yep.
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  Speaker 2: And let my daddy tell it.
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  Speaker 1: That's part of why Joe Torre was no longer the
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  Speaker 1: manager of the Atlanta Braves. And through most of the 80s,
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  Speaker 1: the Braves and the Yankees were sorry, though it is
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  Speaker 1: a bit inexplicable how the Yankees, whose top of the
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  Speaker 1: lineup was Ricky Henderson, Willie Randolph. Don Mattingly, and Dave Winfield,
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  Speaker 1: yet did not win a division.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, and did not win a division with that bunch
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  Speaker 3: of guys.
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  Speaker 1: And the Braves were just out there playing for crowds
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  Speaker 1: of 15, 16 people.
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  Speaker 2: Well, there's a commonality there that I love about this, actually.
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  Speaker 2: When you talk about it going back to the 80s,
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  Speaker 2: it does. I mean, it might go back to the 70s,
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  Speaker 2: late 70s, but it really does go back because you've
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: got two characters that people don't talk about anymore. One
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: is George Steinbrenner, one is Ted Turner, right? Both of
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  Speaker 2: these guys, neither one in the Hall of Fame Because
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  Speaker 2: baseball has penalized them for those years when they spent
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  Speaker 2: and spent and blew the economics of the sport out
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  Speaker 2: of control. And neither one of them won for it.
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  Speaker 2: And so you have Ted Turner on the one hand
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  Speaker 2: raising salaries through free agency because let's not forget, you know,
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  Speaker 2: the 80s are the first 10 years of free agency,
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  Speaker 2: 76 up into 86. And then you've got George. who
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  Speaker 2: goes back to back in the World Series, loses the
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  Speaker 2: World Series in 81 after being up 2-0 to the Dodgers.
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  Speaker 2: And then he can't win. And what does he do?
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  Speaker 2: Just keep spending and spending and spending. And the answer
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  Speaker 2: is obviously he spent on bad pitchers because that offense
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: was dynamite. I mean, that offense is enough to beat anybody,
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: but they couldn't pitch. And so when you start getting
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: into the 90s, you've got these two characters who are really,
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: really defined no longer by their managers, but by their owners.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, but also interesting because....
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: Ted turned the operation over to Bobby Cox, I want
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  Speaker 1: to say in 1987, as the general manager.
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  Speaker 2: Not as the manager.
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  Speaker 1: He had been the manager in the late 70s and
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: early 80s, but he turned the front office over to
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  Speaker 1: him and they built this thing from the.
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  Speaker 2: Ground up, prospect-wise.
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  Speaker 1: But what that meant was, last in 86, second to
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: last in 87, last in 88, last in 89, last
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  Speaker 1: in 90. And this is like young me getting into
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  Speaker 1: baseball and I'm just watching my team get slaughtered every night.
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  Speaker 1: My father is openly lamenting that he has walked me
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  Speaker 1: into a lifetime of rooting for losers.
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  Speaker 3: But like, you'd see little glimmers, right?
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  Speaker 1: They brought Tom Glavin up, but you could only feel
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  Speaker 1: good about Glavin once he actually got good. Cause otherwise
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  Speaker 1: he's throwing that shit up there all soft. That didn't
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  Speaker 1: feel good. Smoltz made you, they got Smoltz for Doyle
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: Alexander and a deadline deal in 87. But as soon
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: as you saw Smoltz, you were like, Oh, there's something here.
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  Speaker 1: It took him a while to like fully get it together.
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  Speaker 1: But you started to see it. Steve Avery gets drafted
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: and it's a bit of a slow burn on that one,
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  Speaker 1: but he finally gets there.
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  Speaker 3: I guess once he's about 21, 22, It's there. He
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  Speaker 3: starts rolling.
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  Speaker 2: Right.
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  Speaker 1: But for that time, the Braves are building. The Yankees
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  Speaker 1: are still chasing.
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  Speaker 2: Right. Still spending all that money to get guys.
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  Speaker 1: And then is it 1990 that the Howard Spira situation happened?
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  Speaker 1: For those who don't know, Dave Winfield, George Lombardo hated
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: Dave Winfield to the point that he had a known
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  Speaker 1: gambler tailing him. to get information to ruin his reputation,
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  Speaker 1: which led to Steinberg being suspended.
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  Speaker 2: Yes.
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  Speaker 3: Full year.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. 90 full year. And on top of that, um,
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  Speaker 2: you know, the Yankees, it's interesting because it's interesting what
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  Speaker 2: memory does to you because, you know, because you talk
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  Speaker 2: about suffering. Did you really suffer? Oh, I mean, wasn't
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: really suffering. I mean, Joe Torre got fired in 84. Right?
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  Speaker 2: They went to the playoffs in 82. They won 89 games.
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  Speaker 2: They won 88 the next year. And then they went
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  Speaker 2: 80 in 82. So they did have... They went five years.
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  Speaker 2: You know, they went a good... Seven. They went a
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  Speaker 2: good six years. Seven. Yeah, it was... 84 to 91.
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  Speaker 3: 84 to... 85 to 91. 85 to 91.
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  Speaker 2: And it's really six and a half because it didn't
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  Speaker 2: get going until the All-Star break. Yeah, I mean... I mean,
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: you had Chuck Tanner. Chuck Tanner was a good man.
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  Speaker 2: I love Chuck. He was one of my favorites. I
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  Speaker 2: bet he was. I bet he was. He was one
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  Speaker 2: of my all-time favorites, and he was a night owl.
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  Speaker 2: Chuck would call you at, like, 2 in the morning. Howard, Chuck,
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: what's good? I'm like, what do you want? I mean,
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: but he was great. Old-school baseball man. Loved, loved, loved Chuck.
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: All right, Russ Nixon, bad manager. But then, you know,
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  Speaker 2: by 91, you're straight. Yeah, but how— And straight for
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  Speaker 2: a really long time.
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  Speaker 1: You have to understand— I don't have a memory of 1984.
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  Speaker 1: I don't have a memory of 1982. So the people
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  Speaker 1: that were there the whole way, maybe they didn't feel
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: like they suffered.
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  Speaker 3: All I knew was losing. Like when I look back.
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  Speaker 1: At the people and the things that I convinced myself
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: to be happy about, like the elevated sense in my
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: brain of Zane Smith, remembering that time Deion James hit
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: 312 in 1987. And, you know, you got the OG Murph. Like,
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: ain't a whole lot in Atlanta that everybody agrees with.
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: Was your father a sports fan? Yes. Okay. Yes, this
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: is his fault. Yeah, so he did right by you, though,
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: at least, because he understood, right? I remember when the
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: Celtics lost to Washington in the playoffs, and I was balling.
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: I was, like, nine years old, you know? It had
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: to be, I remember what year it was, 75, I think.
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: And I was younger than that. I was like seven.
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  Speaker 2: And my dad wasn't a sports fan. And he was like,
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: what do you want something to cry about? He's like,
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: your team lost. So what? They're the Celtics. They win
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: all the time. What are you going to win? You
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: think you're going to win every day? You think that's
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: what life is? You think you're going to win every,
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: you know, your team's supposed to win. You lose. We
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: all lose. Now shut up. Now, maybe that was just
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: because it was the Celtics and you're supposed to win,
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: so your dad was a little nicer to you than mine,
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: or maybe he was just a bastard. I don't know.
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: My dad, hey, man, he was in it with me
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: with the Braves. You got to remember, he's like an
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: Ice Bowl Cowboys fan.
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. Like, you know, so, like, he been through
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: the fires, right?
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: Baseball, I feel like when he was younger, worked out
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: well for him because he was at that age where
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: he just rooted for the teams that had the black people.
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: So when Cleveland won in 48, that was his guy,
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: and he rooted for the Dodgers because that's what black
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: people did.
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  Speaker 2: Like, he had that.
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: But no, man, it was tough. But the thing was
• 11:49
  Speaker 3: that happened.
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: For the Braves in 91 was that they hired an
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: actual factual, like, general manager. Like, Cox was great for
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: building the farm system. Then they hired Josh Scherholz, who
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: had built a world champion in Kansas City. And when
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: it brought over like a handful of his Kansas City guys,
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: he also did something very underrated, which is they took
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: the dirt out of the infield that had been at
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: Fulton County Stadium that was Georgia red clay and just terrible.
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: And he bought dirt from Kansas City and brought it in.
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: And suddenly the defense got better. Like it was no longer.
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: Keystone cops out there. I mean, the Braves were bad
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: at everything. I just can't explain like skip, skip, carry
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: starting games with like labs.
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  Speaker 2: To the slaughter.
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: The Braves take the field like that. This was literally
• 12:31
  Speaker 3: what it was. It's just skip.
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: And they were a national team by the national team.
• 12:35
  Speaker 3: It's skip and Ernie Johnson just entertaining themselves.
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: During these games.
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: And so the part for me as a personal attachment,
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: you have to remember is we moved to Houston in
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: August of 87. So right before I turned seven, The
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: only thing that was there that was familiar to me
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: was Superstation was still broadcast. So like I'm holding on
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: to the brain.
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: Right.
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  Speaker 3: In a very strong way.
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: But what's also interesting for that time period and talking
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: about the Yankees, the Yankees in that time period to
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: me were like the Green Bay Packers where I'm watching
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: and I keep hearing things about them. But I don't
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: understand why this is a big deal, because the last time.
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: They were good, I wasn't born.
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: That's right. Right.
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: Like the like this idea of the Yankees. didn't make
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: any sense to me because I'd seen.
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: There was literally, one, they were in the American League
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: and in that day and time, if you were in
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: an American League city, the National League meant nothing and
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: vice versa. Like you picked your league and you saw
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: the other guys at the All-Star game and when you
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: watched the World Series.
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: Which is the reason, which is the reason, you know,
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: Bud Selig and I used to, used to argue this
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: point all the time when he was, you know, how
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: come nobody cares about the All-Star? I said, because technology is,
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: When I was a little kid growing up in Boston,
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: the only time we saw the National League, I never
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: saw Mike Schmidt play. We saw him in the game
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: of the week periodically. It was always like Dodgers, Phillies
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: or Mets, you know, Mets, Dodgers or Cubs, Cardinals. Or
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: it was the World Series or the All-Star Game. It
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: was the only time we saw them. They didn't exist.
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: And now, you know, you've got a gazillion channels and
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: now you've got interleague. The other league doesn't matter anymore.
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: Now you've got everyday interleague. It's not the same thing anymore.
• 14:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: Like, I remember when Bo Jackson hit that home run
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: of the All-Star game in 1989.
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: Bo Jackson was my favorite player.
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure I'd seen Bo Jackson actually play a
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: baseball game until that game, right?
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: There was different factors. Did he ever? Did he ever?
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: But we get to 91 with the Braves, and now
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: they're finally good. I want to say that at the
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: All-Star break, they were 39-40. and a pretty decent gap
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: behind the dodgers and then had an all-time great pennant
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: race another thing that's been kind of legislated out is
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: the idea or notion of a pennant race of course
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: now it's better in the sense that there are more
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: teams that feel like they have a chance but there's
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: something about two maybe three teams every day you're waking
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: up and you're checking the standings and seeing did somebody
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: move up where did it go did we get the
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: results in from the late game in time for la
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: so forth and so on, all of that. But the
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: Braves made the mad dash comeback. They win the National
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: League in 91. They win the National League in 92.
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: And these were all exciting series. It was game seven
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: against Pittsburgh. They were down 3-2 in that series. And
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: then they won that one. 92, Francisco Cabrera gets the
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: hit in game seven. Nice throw, Barry. The saddest moment
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: of Barry.
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: Bonds' life, man. It's not a bad throw, by the way.
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: No, it wasn't. It was actually a pretty close play.
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: It was not a bad throw. It didn't have enough
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: on it, but it was right on line. It was
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: not a bad throw.
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: And I will also note, number one, the game was tied.
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: And number two, that Pittsburgh bullpen was going to give
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: that game up one way or another.
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: You mean when Stan Belinda came in the game, you
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: weren't like, oh. That was exactly what I was about
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: to say.
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: The fact that Stan Belinda was the person that was
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: throwing that pitch in the first place was a terrible sign.
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: And that is all optics to me because no disrespect
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: to Stan Belinda, although he was not a great closer.
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: I mean, he's a playoff closer. I mean, this is
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: why we look at guys who throw hard. He didn't
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: throw hard. And if a guy doesn't throw hard, you
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: feel like you got a chance.
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: My dad, that is always his baseball thing.
• 16:02
  Speaker 3: I like guys who throw hard.
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: Like, he's the original analytics guy. It had no idea.
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: He'd be like, Maddox, yeah, Maddox, you know, like, I've
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: not seen good, but I like guys who throw hard.
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: And if you ask anybody that watched those brave teams,
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: if it was a game, you won it. Who did
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: you want to pitch it? There's no question.
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: Smokes. Yeah. I mean, and you got Maddox and Glavin
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: painting the corners on both sides. One painted one side
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: and the other painted both sides.
• 16:26
  Speaker 3: And Maddox didn't not throw hard.
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: Glavin did not throw hard. But you want somebody that
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: throws hard. And so they had those pitchers. 93 hurt,
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: but it was kind of like, okay, you understood it.
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: And that pennant race was so grueling. It just hurt
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: because the 93 Phillies are my single least favorite team
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: of all time. And looking back on it, I can't
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: believe that Donald Trump wasn't in box seats for every
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: game that they played.
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: They... As a redneck team boy. Oh, my God.
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: Like, I can just imagine that whole team should have
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: had hats that said, I was stupid on it.
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: You know, like, they just, ooh, I hated that team.
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: Lenny Dykstra. You should have Ricky Jordan on your podcast.
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: That's what it was like to be teammates with that team. Oh,
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: my God. What was that like?
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: Ricky Jordan, Wes Chamberlain.
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: Wes Chamberlain. Charlie Hayes on that team, too?
• 17:14
  Speaker 3: Charlie Hayes was on that team.
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm. Can't imagine. Get them brothers in there to say,
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: what was it like being around Dalton and Dykstra and
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: Eisenreich and the rest of them and Mitch?
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Mitch Williams. Pete Incaviglia, John Kruk.
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: And Inky and Kruk, yeah. Oh, man.
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: What about Steve Jelts? Juan Samuel. Well, Juan Samuel was
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: there a little earlier.
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: But still. Sammy got traded for Dykstra.
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: That is right.
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: That is right.
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: He wound up going to the Mets.
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: 86 Mets.
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: That's the pro-man book I do need to read is
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: the book.
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: On the 86 Mets. And it is also true that
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: the 93 Phillies are a direct descendant of the 86 Mets. Yes. Yes.
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: Without question.
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: But that's what the Braves are doing, right?
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: They win the World Series in 1995, which is interesting
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: because people think of the Braves as all the times
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: they came up short. I think often, especially later in
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: the run, there was a lot of overachieving that got missed.
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: But Cleveland won 100 games in a 144-game season, and
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: their best player had 152 extra base hits in a
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: short season.
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: For my money, maybe the MVP.
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: They hated him. I mean, and they didn't even give
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: it to a white dude. Like, they just hated him.
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: Hot take.
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: If Kirby Puckett's a Hall of Famer, Albert Bell kind
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: of sort of has a very similar statistical case.
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: Not only is Albert Bell not a Hall of Famer, right?
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think he should have been. Albert Bell
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: was off the ballot in the first year. Yeah, yeah.
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: He got less than 5% in the first year.
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: Loads of man with Hall of Fame statistics. I guess
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: Kirby Puckett also has the two World Series. You ever
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: have an uncle that you feared?
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: Yes. Yeah, that's him. I used to fear my Uncle Charles.
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: I just feared that man. I feared him when we
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: all were grown up and you looked at him and said,
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: oh man, you're only 5'7. But at the time, he
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: might as well have been 8'7. That was Albert Bell
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: when you walked into the clubhouse. I walked in when
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: he was with the White Sox. One of the first
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: times I walked in the clubhouse. And there he is.
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: And media, get the fuck out. I was like, ain't
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: nobody saying anything to you. I was just walking off
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: the field to go through the clubhouse to go upstairs.
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: I did not stop to talk to anybody. I was
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: making my way out of the clubhouse. Media, get the
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: fuck out. And the Braves beat them. Like Manny Ramirez
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: is on that team. Manny Ramirez, Kenny Lofton, Albert Bill.
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: That's one of the greatest lineups of all time. You
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: had Paul Sorrento hit an eighth on that team. Yes.
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: Dave Winfield, Eddie Murray.
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: Although, when he wasn't on the postseason, I don't think.
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: Carlos Baerga. That was his last year.
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Carlos Baerga's on that team. Yeah, Sorrento.
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: Jim Tomei. Tomei, of course. His kill was playing shortstop.
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: Sandy Alomar, like that was ridiculous.
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they were beasts. Matt Williams was on that. Matt
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: Williams was a third baseman.
• 20:13
  Speaker 3: Yes, he was.
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: And they had just been sorry. Yeah. They had just
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: been sorry not long before that. They had just built
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: Jacobs Field.
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: Yep, and the Braves beat them. That's right, because they
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: had timed that to get into that stadium. I think
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: if there had been playoffs in 94, they would have
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: made it. And then they timed it to be good
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: when it was– that they were good, and then they
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: just lost to the Braves. The Braves are riding high.
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: The Braves get into the 96 postseason, and they're down
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: to the Cardinals 3-1. And those next three games, they
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: go bananas. I think there was one close game.
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: 14-0, 3-1, 15-0? Yes, yes.
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: And I remember, as a fan, never did it dawn
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: on me that they were going to lose that series.
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: And isn't it an interesting thing when you recognize that
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: obviously New England Patriots fans know this. When all of
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: a sudden you go from loser to winner, and suddenly
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: when you go from loser to winner, now there's a
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: level of confidence that you have that you never thought
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: was possible with these guys. I mean, even to this day,
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: I still look at the Patriots and go, the Patriots?
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: I mean, the Patriots meant nothing. The Patriots were for
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: NFL films to showcase... Bob Greasy and OJ Simpson, right?
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: Who are they crushing every time? The Patriots. They're running
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: all over the Patriots. Yes, the Falcons in the 49ers clips. Exactly.
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: And so, but now, the Braves, you go to the
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: World Series in 91, you go to the World Series
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: in 92, you win the World Series in 95, you
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: destroy the Cardinals in 96, and you destroy them not
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: just by, you know, by beating them, but by You know,
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: they've got an elimination game at home in St. Louis,
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: and they lose 14 to nothing. They score one more
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: run the rest of the series. Yes. They get outscored
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: 30 to 1.
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: They ran through them.
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: That's what I'm saying. Like, it was... 30-1 in three games? Yeah.
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: But see, the thing about it with the Braves, because
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: it had been such a building action, you had time
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: to get comfortable with the idea that, like, you've done
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: the losing, you've done the things, okay, they've overcome this,
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: and then the Cardinals, whatever, okay, they're going to blow
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: the Cardinals out of there.
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: They blow the Cardinals out of there.
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: At the same time, the Yankees, 94, the Yankees were
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: the best team in the American League.
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: Then there was no postseason. Ninety five. The first year
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: that we have the wild card round in the postseason,
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: they lose that heartbreaker game five to Seattle where Randy
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: Johnson comes out of the bullpen.
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: It was a Griffey scores. The scores, the winning run
• 22:46
  Speaker 3: in game five.
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: From the double in the corner by Agate Martinez. Yeah. Yeah.
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: I mean, it was like it was, by the way, Bo,
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: after being up to. Oh, yeah. Forget that part. They
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: were up to all and lost three in a row.
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: I forgot about that. And that was still show Walter.
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: Like that was the last series of show Walter before
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: he went and took a job that didn't even exist yet.
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: Well, he was fired. Yes. You know, that was all
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: the higher Joe. And that is the very interesting thing
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: about the whole thing. Like these are pivots. There's certain
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: hinges on the door that change history. If you're the Yankees, Um,
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: now the Yankees are on their way. I mean, George
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: gets suspended and it is interesting. We didn't get to that.
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: The big pivot is George gets suspended. And since he's
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: not there, people can actually do their jobs.
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Stick Michael builds that team. And so the way,
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: so at the same, you know, in, in a similar
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: vein that Bobby Cox is actually building to get, you know, to,
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: to circumvent the, you know, the craziness of the mad
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: owner stick is doing the same thing because George is suspended. Right.
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: So the, you know, I mean, George, George would have
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: traded Bernie Williams. George would have traded Mariano Rivera. George
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: would have blown that whole thing up before it even
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: got started.
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: You mean Jay Buhner for Ken Phelps wasn't a great idea?
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: Kind of a bad deal. Kind of a bad deal.
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: And all of that. I mean, think about it. That
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: 1990 team, they traded Ricky back to the A's in 89.
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: And you had an outfield out there of Luis Polonio,
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: He kind of had a sex offender problem himself. And
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: Deion was on that team, but he didn't have a
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: sex offender problem. Then you had Mel Hall out there
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: as well, who's still in prison, isn't he? Yes, he is.
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: Man, my bad, Deion.
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: I didn't realize that Howard was running through all the
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: dudes that had treated women badly.
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: My fault.
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: That's all me. I wasn't trying to imply nothing. I
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: was just remembering who played in the outfield.
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: Exactly. But, I mean, that team, you want to talk
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: about falling all the way off the cliff. And they're
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: making their way back. And now they're a good team.
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: But they still haven't been to the World Series since 1981.
• 25:02
  Speaker 3: Yep.
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: They haven't won the World Series since 1978. They feel
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: like they got cheated in 1994. And they lose in
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: a heartbreaking way in 1995. And by the way, that's
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: Don Mattingly's only playoff appearance. Yep. And then they immediately,
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: you know, are like, okay, we want Tino Martinez. And
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: so Donnie's done anyway. And so what is sort of
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: fascinating about all of it is, is that the Braves
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: and the Yankees are moving right around the same time,
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: but the Braves get there faster. But they're both on
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: a collision course. Yes.
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: They're both heading in the right direction by the time
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: you get to, you know, I mean, they very easily
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: could have met in the World Series in 94. They
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: could have. I mean, Montreal was a great team, but
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: there's no guarantee who was going to do what once
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: you get to the playoffs. And so it's fascinating that
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: when it all comes together, not only are the Braves
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: and the Yankees playing each other in the World Series,
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: but they're also playing with Joe Torre, who obviously has
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: a serious connection to Atlanta. That's his team, his town.
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: And of course, he tells that famous story. when they
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: go down Oh two in the world series, you know,
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: Oh two at home. Now you're going down there for three.
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: Don't worry. This is my town.
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: And I remember that. Yeah. And that team was built.
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: That's Derek Jeter shows up in 96, obviously, but it's
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: like Rivera Rivera is the setup man on that team.
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: You've got Andy Pettit on that team. You've got Bernie Williams. Um,
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: Tino was okay. I know Cecil field was on that
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: team was Tino on that one.
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah, like all these guys, it's not big. It's not names.
• 26:48
  Speaker 3: Derek Jeter, obviously. I mean, Derek Jeter says nothing big deal.
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: My favorite baseball story ever is Hal Neuhauser working as
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: a scout for the Astros when they had the number
• 26:57
  Speaker 3: one pick in 1992. Says we should take Derek Jeter.
• 26:59
  Speaker 3: And they take Phil Nevin.
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: And Hal Neuhauser retired because clearly he doesn't know anything
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: about baseball.
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: If they couldn't listen to me on this one, he retired.
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: I quit.
• 27:09
  Speaker 3: I'm not coming back and doing this. But that team
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: is set up.
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: The Braves are now a mix of their homegrown guys,
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: but also your Greg Maddox, your Fred McGriff. Grissom is
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: playing center field on this team. It's not the team
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: completely that it was in 91, but it's still largely
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: foundationally that team, and they're coming off a World Series.
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: The 96 Yankees were loaded. The 96 Yankees are... You know,
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: they're there. They are. You've got not only do you
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: have Cecil Fielder on the team, you get Darryl Strawberry
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: on that team on the bench.
• 27:44
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: You get Wade Boggs on that team. You know, you
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: had Ruben Sierra was a DH. I mean, you had
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: really good players. I mean, guys who were very, very,
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: very well known. I mean, Dwight Gooden and Darryl Strawberry
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: on that team. Right.
• 27:58
  Speaker 3: Exactly.
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: And you had Gooden through no hitter that year. Yeah.
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: And so, you know, you had you had a lot
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: of players. And they were absolutely, in a lot of ways,
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: they were ready. And you had Coney, of course, who's
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: already a champion. Yeah, David Cohn. I mean, they were straight.
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: And you had the closer, you had Wettlinger closer. I mean,
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: they were ready to play. And so it's really interesting
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: when I think about the 96 team. The thing that
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: I think about the most with them is... Right there.
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: Coming up next, what Howard Bryant thinks the most about
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: the 96 Yankees. Football is heating up and everyone's pulling
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: up because PrizePix has all your picks in one place.
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• 29:13
  Speaker 1: on this season? They say defense wins championships, but that
• 29:16
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• 29:59
  Speaker 1: are back with Howard Bryant talking about the 96 World Series.
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: He's going to talk about what he remembers most about
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: that team, but I want to set up that series
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: right fast because I think before we get straight to 0-2,
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: it is important to remember how we got to 0-2, right?
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: Braves win two games at the old stadium with an.
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: Unforgettable moment of Andrew Jones hitting two home runs and
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: first two at-bats at Yankee Stadium. Kind of the best
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: and worst thing to ever happen to him. I feel
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: like if that doesn't happen, our expectations aren't so jacked
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: up of what he could be And it took us
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: so long to simply be satisfied with him being the
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: greatest defensive center fielder who ever lived.
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: And he's a teenager.
• 30:35
  Speaker 3: Yes, 19 years old. If you are a Braves fan,
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: got this. Because the Yankees, there's nothing intimidating about the
• 30:42
  Speaker 3: Yankees at.
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: All at this point, right? Like, they are.
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: You might as well have been playing basketball against the
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: University of San Francisco. You know, they won championships. Bill
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: Russell ain't on that team. Like, what it is that
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: we're really talking about.
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: And, well... Yeah, there's that. What was that thing you
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: were thinking about? It's not just that, Beau. It's something else, too,
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: which is, and as we find out over time when
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: you talk about great teams, you're not just playing the team,
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: you're playing the aura, right? I mean, you are playing them,
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: especially if you're afraid of them and you know you're
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: afraid of them. The Atlanta Braves have no reason to
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: fear anybody. You're the defending World Series champions, right? You've
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: already been battle-tested. You got your heart broken in 91.
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: You got your heart broken in 92. You got upset
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: in 93. You win the championship in 95.
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: And- Hold on, you have six straight Cy Young awards
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: on your pitching staff.
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: On your roster. On top of that, you overcome a
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: 3-1 against the Cardinals. And so in a type of
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: fashion that made you look like you were playing a
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: little league team, right? You killed them. And so here
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: you come in. So let's think about this, all right?
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: So you're down 3-1. in an elimination game in St. Louis,
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: you win 14 to nothing. Okay? You go home for
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: game six, you win 3-1. You're home for game seven,
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: you win 15 to nothing. You go to the World
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: Series in Yankee Stadium, you win 12 to one. Like,
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: so look at that stretch. You've scored 14-3, 15-12. And
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: then the next night, you shut them out 4-0. You're
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: killing everybody. Like, so not only are you killing everybody,
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: Not only are you the defending champions, you're going home
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: for three. Get two of those games. Win that series.
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: Win those three games. You know, win that three-game series.
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: And you're world champions. You're back-to-back champions now. Right? So
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: now you're going into the 97 season, not only having
• 32:44
  Speaker 2: all that in the past, but you're the back-to-back World
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: Series champions as well. Like, it's all set up. for
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: the Braves dynasty. Everything is lined up right then and
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: there when you get on that plane to go to
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: Atlanta for game three. And then they lost. And then
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: they didn't win another. Not only did they lose, they
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: don't win another game.
• 33:04
  Speaker 3: They didn't win another game.
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: Dude, game five.
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: Honestly, man, the, the details of all that don't, I've
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: never bothered to be concerned with the, with the.
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: Have you ever watched, have you watched that game since?
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: Hell no. Why would I do that? Like, it's on
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: all the time. I didn't know. Yeah.
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: But that's, I mean, it's, it's a hundred other things
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: all at the same time. That thing is all like,
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: I just, I don't, I don't do recreational sadness, Howard.
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: Well, the reason why I asked is not because I
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: want you to flog me. I know you don't. I
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: know you don't. I'm just explaining to you how I
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: get down.
• 33:37
  Speaker 3: That's all.
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: Yes. But the reason why I asked was because of
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: the phenomenon called flashbulb memory. Was it the way you
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: remember it? Oh, gotcha. And also because whenever there's a comeback,
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: whether it be 28 to 3 or whatever you want
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: to call it, whatever, you know, you know, whatever comeback
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: it takes to, whether it's the 35 to three, you know,
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: bills in the Oilers, right. It always takes two. And
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: when you watch that, you know, you sort of forensically
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: look at it and go, how did this go wrong? Right.
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: How did this happen? And baseball, it just happens in
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: a flash. And by the way, it was game four.
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry. You know, that's the, that's the Laird's home
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: run game. Right.
• 34:19
  Speaker 3: I mean, and that's the, For those who don't know,
• 34:21
  Speaker 3: the Braves are ahead 6-0.
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: They're up 6-0, then 6-3, and the Leritz ties it
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: off Wohlers.
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: 6-0. Let me tell you the thing about Wohlers, man.
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: As my man Ron Washington would say, that's how baseball go. Yeah, yeah.
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: The Wohlers thing was the Braves' bullpen had always been
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: an issue, right? In one form or another, they were
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: always cobbling together. They out there trying to get it
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: done with All kinds of dudes that used to play
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: for somebody else. Juan Berenguer, Alejandro Pena, and then eventually
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: they get to Wohlers, and hey, man, that dude was
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: throwing 100 miles an hour when not everybody did that.
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: It was kind of amazing. But that's it.
• 35:08
  Speaker 3: All he had was gas.
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: The control was not necessarily there, but it was not...
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: It didn't ever feel like Wohlers was throwing filthy gas.
• 35:20
  Speaker 3: It was just gas. Straight line gas.
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: And you just kind of had to hope that he
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: didn't put it in a bad place.
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: Or, you know, walk the bases loaded.
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: Yep, that was always on the board. And he threw
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: that pitch to Lairitz. And it was a no-brainer home run, too.
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: It was the crack of the bat.
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: It was in Atlanta.
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: It was crack of the bat. This series is about
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: to be over. They just needed to hold on. And
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: he hit that.
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: One out of there. And There was nothing left to do.
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: The series was over.
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: It was a 1-0 in the game after that. Honestly,
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: I had forgotten that there was even extra innings in
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: this game.
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: This is really truly a trauma response. I can't believe this.
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: It all seemed set up. Everything was there. You go
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: through all this, you get back-to-back championships. That's a whole
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: different place in the sport. Everything feels great. We didn't
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: have to go back to no New York.
• 36:19
  Speaker 3: And then it was very clear, you guys aren't winning.
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: And don't win another championship until 2021.
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: Correct.
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's one of the swings. I remember talking
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: to Henry Aaron about this because there's a precedent here. 57-58.
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: 57-58.
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: So the Milwaukee Braves beat the Yankees in seven games
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: in 1957, Henry Aaron's only championship. Milwaukee Braves win the championship.
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: The next year, rematch. And... The Braves are up 3-1.
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: Lose three in a row, lose the World Series, never
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: get back. That was it. And one of the things
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: Henry always used to talk about was he would say,
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: we had to have that one. If we got that one,
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: not only would we have been back-to-back, not only would
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: we have been back-to-back beating the Yankees back-to-back, which nobody does.
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: I don't think anyone had beaten the Yankees in back-to-back
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: World Series since the Giants in, what, 21, 22? And
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: we would be remembered as one of the great teams
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: of all time. Nobody talks about us. Nobody remembers us
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: as one of the great teams of all time. We
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: had Warren Spahn and Lou Burdette and Eddie Matthews and me,
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: and nobody talks about us. And how come nobody talks
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: about us? It's not just because we moved to Atlanta.
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: It's because we didn't win that world series. Yep. You know?
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: And so when I think about 96, one of the
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: things I remember most about it is, um, you know,
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: my man Glenn Stout said this years ago, you know,
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: devastating losses have devastating consequences. And the very interesting thing
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: about it is that, you know, the word on the street,
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: everybody knowing what was going on up at River Avenue, right?
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: Was George going to fire Joe after one year after
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: losing like that? Was he going to blow the whole
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: thing up? I mean, There's a good chance that all
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: those things happen. Andy Pettit was the guy, and he
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: got destroyed. And maybe George would have looked at him
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: and said, ah, you know, you're not New York ready, right?
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: And who knows what would have happened? And instead, it
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: launches the thing in the other direction. And all of
• 38:33
  Speaker 2: a sudden, the Yankees are back. And now, if young
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: Bomani Jones had no idea what the Yankees were all about...
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: Now you're about to find out what baseball is like
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: when the Yankees are good.
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: Well, also, for the Braves, as it plays out, I
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: really lock in on the next three years.
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I was going to say one quick thing
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: about that. One of the things about that, too, that
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: I find fascinating, in the Braves' favor, they didn't stop. No.
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: They kept winning. They go back to the World Series
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: in 99.
• 39:02
  Speaker 3: They won the division nine more times.
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: Exactly, and then they just keep dominating. So it wasn't
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: like the whole building collapsed.
• 39:11
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: They just never, you know, and when they played the
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: Yankees in 99, those Yankee teams were just, that Yankee
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: team was just a beast. Yeah, but the Braves won
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: like 108 games that year. True, and the Yankees swept them.
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: Doesn't own the team anymore. Time Warner owns the team.
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: So now some of the decisions, all right, something else
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: is going out. You know, we're having to trade something
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: to get the budget to the right place. And so
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: the Braves, after being like, we're just doing this with
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: great pitching all the way through. Some years it was
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: great offense. Some years it was a great bullpen. Like
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: it was all the way cobbling it together. 97, after, oh,
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: let's see. We talked about them blowing it there. Game six,
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: Charlie Hayes catch the fucking ball at third base. Yeah,
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: Yankees win. Everybody jumping up and down and stuff. It's
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: cops on horses. Nothing good has ever happened with the
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: cop pull up on a horse.
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: But whatever, I'm sure. Except that Wade Boggs is now
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: on the horse. Yeah, yeah. And you know what?
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: That makes me wonder if Wade Boggs pulled up on
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: somebody and beat him with a blackjack. That's what I
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: think about when I see the cop on a horse.
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: And that is a Boston moment that people... Wade Boggs.
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: Is on a horse wearing pinstripes. I mean, yeah. Black
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: man don't walk around Boston that night. Let me tell
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: you something also.
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: Wade Boggs is the ultimate, like, for those of us
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: who grew up in a certain generation of race relations,
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: Wade Boggs, as he's known in my house, he ain't
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: no Tony Gwynn.
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: Oh, boy. And also, never mind the fact that he
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: had the whole affair with Margot Adams. He did. And
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: in that interview, was it Playboy or whatever, where that
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: interview talked about how much Wade didn't like his black teammates,
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: how he used to say, what did he say? Margot
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: talked about how Jim Rice wanted to be white and
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: how he couldn't stand Oil Cam Boyd, right? And said
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: something like, what did he say? He said something like,
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: you know, you know, I mean, I could never be
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: with a black woman because what would people think? Right?
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: I mean, Margot just laid him out that the chicken
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: man was the biggest racist in the clubhouse, which had
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: a lot of competition in that Red Sox clubhouse. But still,
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: it is a pivotal, pivotal moment. And it doesn't get
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: a whole lot of discussion, but it was really two-pronged.
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: But I did, and I still feel like, The Braves
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: still held up their end, right? I mean, even though
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: they didn't get back. They got back to the World
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: Series once. They didn't win. But as a sports fan,
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: as a fan of your team. Well, hold on.
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: We didn't get to talk about them getting robbed the
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: next year when Eric Gregg decided to.
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: Fix the game. And I was about to bring up 97.
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: And right when you said that, I was thinking, oh,
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: and let's not forget the Eric Gregg game.
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: Man, I said he fixed the game, and that's not fair,
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: because that makes it sound like he was trying to
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: do it for gambling or something like that.
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: He was Enrico Palazzo.
• 42:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah, he just got really.
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: Excited about calling them strikes. The strikes that he was calling, yes,
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: that is exactly it. Like, when it is that Frank
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: Drevin needs to stretch the game out, and he's at ball...
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: Right down the pipe, ball. Eric Gregg was doing the opposite.
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: That last pitch to Fred McGriff is right down the opposite.
• 42:35
  Speaker 3: He called that a strike before.
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: He even crossed the plate.
• 42:37
  Speaker 3: And it was down the opposite batter's box.
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: I once went, I was in Miami, and they made
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: a 30 for 30 about the Hernandez brothers, about Levon
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: and El Duque, right? And so I'm in this room
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: full of Miami Cubans. And obviously, Levon winning the World
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: Series and being um lcs mvp and world series mvp
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: it's a triumphant moment and him having a game where
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: he broke the league championship record uh for strikeouts is
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: it is a triumphant moment in the movie for everybody
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: in that room except for me and i'm like how
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: how are you gonna write how you gonna explain this
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: because you're gonna have to show the pitches And they're
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: just like, I don't know.
• 43:23
  Speaker 3: It's just, it was a really wide strike zone that day.
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: And they showed them bogus at, oh.
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: My God, it was thrilling me being in there. Isn't that,
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: isn't it? It's one of those times where you look,
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: you know, and I remember, cause I had no dog
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: in that fight. You know, one, it was a national league.
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: I didn't care. I mean, it was like, you know,
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: and the Levon Hernandez story was kind of interesting and
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: you know, the Braves were the Braves. And so it
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: was just, but I remember watching that game and I'm like,
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: this is what it must be like. when you know
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: you're being robbed. Literally being like, when you're like, oh,
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: the refs are against us. Why don't you stop pointing? No, no, no.
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: You're literally being robbed. You're not hearing me right now.
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: This is like a ring camera. You're watching the guys
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: on the porch stealing your Amazon packages. And people also
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: have the argument again.
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: Well, you know, the Braves should have been more aggressive.
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: They don't make bats long enough. to hit those pitches.
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: Oh my goodness. Oh my God. It was, it was, it's,
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: it was tremendous theater. It was laugh. It was literally laughable.
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: It was that bad. And I, you know, and I,
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: and I, you know, got to meet Eric Gregg once.
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: I'm just good dude. Right. I mean, he had a
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: bad day and it was, and became, I know, miss
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: you with that. I know. No, no, no, no.
• 44:38
  Speaker 3: I'll tell you what's so funny.
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: After he died, I once wrote an article about how, wow, man,
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: he just had a bad day. I've been so fierce
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: with this man for years. I'm gonna let it go.
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: And I let it go that day.
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: I was lying. I was lying.
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: I have never felt that way since that day. I
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: never felt like it before that day.
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: But you were human that day because a man died
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: and it was only a baseball game. It was only
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: a baseball game. However, however, that shit was wild. It
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: was wild. And every time I see those clips, I
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: start laughing because all I can think of is the
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: naked gun. So shout out to you, the late, great
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: Leslie Nielsen.
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: Then the next year, man, Kevin Brown was out here
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: throwing 98-mile-an-hour sinkers.
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, nobody was touching Kevin Brown.
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: There was nothing to be done. Like, it was just,
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: it was like, oh, okay. So it was one thing
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: when they were, it felt better, Kevin Brown. It just
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: felt weirder with Kevin Brown, I guess because it was
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: the Padres, but I guess.
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: It was the Marlins also.
• 45:34
  Speaker 3: But at least he was throwing actual, factual gas.
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, and they were great. I mean, I think,
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: and then they got swept by the Yankees too. So,
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: you know, in the World Series. But- You know, but
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: nobody was beating that 98 team. Nobody was beating that team.
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: Except the Cleveland Indians who had them two games to
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: one at home. They did. And the Indians had beat
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: them the year before, right? Yeah, beat them, beat Rivera.
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: Sandy Alomar took Rivera deep. And Rivera's first year as
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: a closer. And so it's a really interesting time period
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: because everything sort of exists by a hair. If this
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: goes this way, if that goes, you know, there's all
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: kinds of opportunities. And, and then of course the fraud
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: of the Marlins that, you know, the Marlins win the
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: world series and then completely dismantle the whole team and
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: then do it again six years later. And I believe
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: the Marlins are still, if I'm not mistaken, the Marlins
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: are still the only team in baseball history to win
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: a world, you know, to, I think they've, they've made
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: the playoffs like four or five times. They've never won
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: the division. Wow. Yeah.
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: They've never won a division title. They've got two world
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: series and never won a division. And it's, you know,
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: once again, it's that sort of wild-ass baseball thing that
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: makes baseball great, makes baseball different from everybody else. And
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: the fact of the matter is the Braves are always
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: going to be that team that you look at whenever
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: you're doing your insane lists and rankings of whether or
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: not they were a dynasty. And they're clearly a dynasty.
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: they clearly gave their fans everything that you could give them,
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: except obviously they didn't, you know, they had some really,
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: really tough, tough losses, but 14 straight division titles. I mean,
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: every single year, every single year, you know, that your
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: summer is going to be a great summer. Now who
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: knows what's going to happen when you get to October,
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: but can you give your fans more than that? Like
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: I remember talking to some Braves fans and they would say, well,
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: you know, I would have taken two world series, you know,
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: four division championships and like six, you know, 89 lost
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: seasons for those two championships. I'm like, no, you wouldn't. No, no, no.
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: I've never complained once about them not winning more world series.
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: Like I feel like post 96, like it's almost a
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: different thing after 96. Those teams were not as good.
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: They were not as dominant. And a lot of those
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: appearances in the playoffs were on the basis of the
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: greatness of the manager, who was not a great manager
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: if you were trying to win seven games, but was
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: an excellent manager over 162.
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, 90 games.
• 48:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, there's no way around it.
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: But I've never been a person that's looked at it
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: with some measure of regret because, oh my gosh, they
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: didn't win more championships.
• 48:31
  Speaker 3: I will never forget.
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: I feel like in my life, my team, capital M,
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: capital T, My team has won two championships, the 2005
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: Texas Longhorns in football and the 1995 Braves. I don't
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: know if I could ever be as happy as I
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: was when they won that. Doing it again, it never
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: would have felt the same. It would have been fine.
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: It would have been great. Obviously, I would have loved
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: to have had it. But it was something to be said.
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: Like you said, a whole summer, I'm going to tune
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: in and watch a good baseball team. I'm going to
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: watch Greg Maddux make that ball do things that I
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: didn't even know was possible.
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: That could be done.
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: I'm going to watch Andrew Jones run through center field
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: and shag balls that I just can't believe any human
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: could do and then maybe.
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: Run up the wall just for fun. What more do
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: I need? Then you're going to get something that most
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: sports fans never get, which is to feel what it's
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: like to be loathed by everybody else in sports because
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: your team is so damn good. The Braves were villains
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: in the National League. Like it was like enough already. Right.
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: I mean, it wasn't like they were like the benign
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: team that won and everybody liked them. I mean, they
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: were they demolished the National League East every single year.
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: And no, they were they were the bullseye of every
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: other team in the league. And they had it all.
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: They had the pitching and they had the players. And
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: let's not forget, you know, you they had the glamour.
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: You had David Justice and Halle Berry sitting there. Right.
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: They they were the center of.
• 50:05
  Speaker 3: Of baseball the owner mary jane fonda and.
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: The owner was married to jane fonda right i mean
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: so they had it all and um and also i
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: think the other thing to remember about that team when
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: you think about them was that even though they did
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: have those devastating playoff losses they also had that sort
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: of can't be killed thing because of what they did
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: in night in 96 it was like They are a
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: playoff tough team, and if you're up two games to
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: one in a five-game series, you might not get that
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: fifth game.
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: I mean, they did it in 91 where they're down
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: 3-2 going to Pittsburgh, and they threw a child, Steve Avery,
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: and not much older than John Smoltz, and they brought
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: it home. You know, with Steve Avery's best friend on
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: the team being Deion Sanders, because we forget that Deion
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: in that 92 World Series was a beast.
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: He was great, exactly. Tim McCarver didn't forget him. Nah.
• 50:57
  Speaker 3: Hey, I tell you this, boy.
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: Growth is realizing how deadly wrong Deion was for that.
• 51:04
  Speaker 3: At the time, I was absolutely team Deion. Adult me
• 51:07
  Speaker 3: is like.
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: What were you doing? Yeah.
• 51:10
  Speaker 3: Like, all he did was say, maybe you should be
• 51:12
  Speaker 3: with the team.
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: That's right. And you took a bucket of ice-cold water
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: and poured it on a former player.
• 51:20
  Speaker 3: And called him a bitch.
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: And called him a bitch.
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: And as Michael Wilbon said, and I believe he is correct,
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: I do not believe that that is a fight that
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: Deion Sanders would have won.
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: No, you don't mess with Tim McCarver. Tim McCarver. Tim McCarver.
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: You know what? One of the things that I try
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: not to do, try not to do it, but I
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: don't always succeed, is professional athletes are different. Like, they're just,
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: their bodies are different. Like, I remember the first time
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: I met Shaquille O'Neal, and I remember staring at his
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: foot the whole night in the green room at Staples
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: Center one night. Guy's got a size 22 foot. I'm
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: just looking at this leather, right? I'm like, That's a
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: human being sitting next to you. And we're not the
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: same species. And you look at catchers. Go look at
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: Joe Torre's hands. Joe Torre's hands is the size of
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: this laptop. You know what I mean? I mean, I
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: remember talking to Tim McCarver and sitting next to Tim,
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: and he had that buttery Memphis accent. Howard, how you doing?
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: And you look at him and you're like, that's a
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: big old burly. He could have been from Southie. You know,
• 52:21
  Speaker 2: beat your ass.
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: I shook Shaq's hand one time, and I couldn't believe,
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: and I got pretty good-sized hands. I couldn't believe I
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: was able to get this part high enough to bring
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: it around, to be a full participant in the handshake.
• 52:40
  Speaker 2: Don't shake Adrian Peterson's hand.
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: I'm terrified of that idea, because apparently he just clearly
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: gets his jollies.
• 52:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he did. I shook his hand when he was
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: the guest editor at ESPN the magazine once. And he
• 52:51
  Speaker 2: tried to break my damn hand. I was like, that
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: shit ain't funny. Nah, I'm hitting him with that. What's up,
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: big dog? Right here, baby. We weren't doing Little Fist
• 52:59
  Speaker 2: Pump at that time. We just shook his hand and
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: he turned the bones in my hand into powder and
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: I never forgot it.
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: Like, he the only person his age that don't want
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: to dap but wants to shake people's hands.
• 53:09
  Speaker 2: Exactly. Like, ah, that boy was taught respect. Why you fumbling?
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: That actually is the most ironic thing in the world.
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: The man with the greatest handshake in the world had
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: a fumbling problem.
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: We call that justice.
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: And on that note, Howard Bryant, Canes and Paws, you
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: can still get it at one of Howard's other 37
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: books available at booksellers all over the world.
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: My brother, I appreciate you. Love the throwback.
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: Ladies and gentlemen, thanks so much for joining us here
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: on The Right Time.
• 53:43
  Speaker 3: We do this four days a week. Ryan Brumley handling
• 53:45
  Speaker 3: everything behind the scenes. Thank you, sir.
• 53:47
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• 53:53
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• 53:57
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• 53:59
  Speaker 1: of days.
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: Take it easy. This has been a Playmaker Production.