Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #1101 - Fussy to Healthy Eaters With Karina Savage

Transcript

#1101 - Fussy to Healthy Eaters With Karina Savage · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

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  Speaker 1: It's the Happy Family's podcast.
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  Speaker 2: It's the podcast for the time poor parent who just
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  Speaker 2: once answers.
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  Speaker 1: Now children are eating. It's one of those things. I
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  Speaker 1: got a kid who she just eats yellow and white food.
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  Speaker 1: That's literally all she eats. It drives me up the wall.
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  Speaker 1: Fussy eating. I've got another one. I don't think she's
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  Speaker 1: a fussy eater, and my wife thinks that she's impossible
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  Speaker 1: to feed. And the whole thing about fussy eating is
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  Speaker 1: I don't think I'm a fussy eater, but I know
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  Speaker 1: when I go to other people's houses or when i'm
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  Speaker 1: I don't know, when I open up my parents' fridge
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  Speaker 1: and I'm kind of like, yeah, there's nothing there. And
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  Speaker 1: I've got this idea that we don't think we're fussy
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  Speaker 1: eaters until somebody else is feeding us, and then we
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  Speaker 1: discover that we're quite fussy. Karna Savage is a pediatric
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  Speaker 1: dietitian twenty three years doing pediatric dietetics, in other words,
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  Speaker 1: looking after food health nutrition for kids. Lives in Sydney
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  Speaker 1: with her husband and two kids, and the founder of
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  Speaker 1: Nourishing Kids, where she helps parents create healthy eaters in
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  Speaker 1: a stress free way. I need a little bit more
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  Speaker 1: of Karina Savage in my life. Actually, Karina, is it
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  Speaker 1: Karina Savage or Karna Savage? Every time I see Karina
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  Speaker 1: Savage time, every time I see the surname Savage, I'm like,
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  Speaker 1: you've got to make it friends, You've got to be savage.
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  Speaker 2: Oh we could, we we can do that for today.
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  Speaker 1: Karna is also a regular on National Warning TV on
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  Speaker 1: Sunrise on seven and has her own podcast called The
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  Speaker 1: Easy Feed. You should check it out. Karina, let's talk
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  Speaker 1: about kids and fussy eating. First off, what do you
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  Speaker 1: think about my take on everyone's fussy. It's just that
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  Speaker 1: when we feed ourselves, we don't know where fussy? Am
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  Speaker 1: I right? Or am I wrong? Like? Are we too
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  Speaker 1: hard on the kids?
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  Speaker 2: Oh?
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  Speaker 3: Look, I think we can be too hard on the kids,
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  Speaker 3: especially you know, they're still learning to like food, that
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  Speaker 3: they're developing. I think we've got this whole idea that
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  Speaker 3: our kids are fussy, but really they're just learning about
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  Speaker 3: life in general. Right, So, I mean, there are some
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  Speaker 3: super fussy eaters, there are adults that are super fuzzy eater.
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  Speaker 3: But sometimes I think we're too hard on ourselves and
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  Speaker 3: our kids, and we really need to take a step
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  Speaker 3: back and look at the big picture.
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  Speaker 1: I always say I'm not a fussy eater. I just
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  Speaker 1: like a certain quality or standard of food, and my
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  Speaker 1: wife just rolls her eyes at me and says, that
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  Speaker 1: makes you fussy. Anyway, let's dive into a couple of
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  Speaker 1: questions about kids and their food.
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  Speaker 2: Now, let me ask you.
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  Speaker 1: It's a dietitian, what's your favorite food?
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  Speaker 3: Well, I grew up with my mum's sides Italian, and
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  Speaker 3: I absolutely love Nyoki and I feel very blessed to
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  Speaker 3: have learned mine as Yoki recipe and something that I
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  Speaker 3: now cook with my children's. I love Yoki, But then
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  Speaker 3: I also have to be honest.
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  Speaker 2: Hot chips with chicken.
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  Speaker 1: And there's gotta be almost non nutritional value in a
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  Speaker 1: bag of.
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  Speaker 2: Chips, right, But do they're good? Oh?
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  Speaker 1: My goodness.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: So my favorite food is KFC is. Yeah, but I've
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  Speaker 1: sworn off and i haven't had it all year, and
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  Speaker 1: I'm really feeling good about the fact that it's gone.
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  Speaker 1: So yeah, feeling good.
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  Speaker 2: I've got a kid who, as I.
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  Speaker 1: Mentioned, yellow and white foods, and because I do try
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  Speaker 1: to stay with the nutritious stuff, it kind of it's
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  Speaker 1: doing my head in Here's what I want to ask you.
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  Speaker 1: When you I mean twenty three years dealing with parents
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  Speaker 1: and kids and feeding. What are some of the most
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  Speaker 1: common challenges that parents face when it comes to feeding
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  Speaker 1: their kids. Is it that I've just got this kid
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  Speaker 1: that only eats white rice or cheese or pasta, or
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  Speaker 1: is there something else going on that parents come to
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  Speaker 1: you a lot about.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, Look, definitely, the white diet, the beige dart, the
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  Speaker 3: fussy eaters drives parents nuts.
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  Speaker 2: And look, I think that's a symptom of many things.
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  Speaker 2: I think it's a symptom of our busy lives.
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  Speaker 3: I think it's a symptom of parents not necessarily taking
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  Speaker 3: that step back and looking at a couple of key
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  Speaker 3: strategies that will actually.
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  Speaker 2: Get some runs on the board, get their children eating better.
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  Speaker 3: I think we are too hard on ourselves sometimes, But
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  Speaker 3: at the same time, it's about just taking that step back,
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  Speaker 3: looking at how we can eat together.
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  Speaker 2: How we can roll with all of these healthy eating behaviors.
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  Speaker 3: So I think fussy eater is definitely one of the
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  Speaker 3: biggest challenges parents' face. But then time time is a
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  Speaker 3: real challenge. These days, more parents are working, both parents
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  Speaker 3: are working, you know, it's not necessarily that mum's home cooking,
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  Speaker 3: mum's working as well. How do we get good, easy,
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  Speaker 3: healthy food on the table consistently.
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  Speaker 2: I think that's a real challenge for parents. Social media
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  Speaker 2: is another one.
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  Speaker 3: You know, you see all these instagrammable lunch boxes, and
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  Speaker 3: it makes us as parents feel bad that our child
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  Speaker 3: doesn't have an Instagram or luge box. But really that's
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  Speaker 3: not necessarily the norm, so I think that's a challenge
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  Speaker 3: as well.
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  Speaker 2: Cost of living is another one.
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  Speaker 3: You know, fresh healthy food can sometimes cost more than
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  Speaker 3: the junk foods, So that's another fact.
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  Speaker 1: I've got a hypothesis here on this. By you, I
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  Speaker 1: get the whole time poor thing. And I also think
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  Speaker 1: as much as shows like Master Chef have highlighted that
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  Speaker 1: there are some few among us who can cook very
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  Speaker 1: very well, for me, I just become dispirited. I'm like, oh, gosh,
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  Speaker 1: I can't cook that. I don't have the time, I
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  Speaker 1: don't have the capacity, I don't have the skill. When
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  Speaker 1: you combine that with what I'm just going to call
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  Speaker 1: the big food industrial complex, I feel as though the
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  Speaker 1: entire Western world has designed this this industrial complex around
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  Speaker 1: food to literally, I don't know, to feed itself rather
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  Speaker 1: than to feed us. I don't want to sound all
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  Speaker 1: conspiracy theorists here, but surely these great, big monolithic food
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  Speaker 1: giants have got a lot to answer for.
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  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's a it's a real problem because
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  Speaker 3: they're so convenient, they're so easy. They've been formulated using
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  Speaker 3: millions of dollars to hit all the senses, so our
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  Speaker 3: kids love them.
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  Speaker 2: They're home fat and salt and sugar.
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  Speaker 3: They're easy, so you know, time for parents will sometimes
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  Speaker 3: just grab them, and it's about I mean, this is
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  Speaker 3: where I try and come in and say, look, here's
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  Speaker 3: some quick, healthy, easy recipes to get on the table.
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  Speaker 3: Don't feel bad about baked beans on toast, don't feel
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  Speaker 3: bad about eggs on toast.
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  Speaker 2: Drive past McDonald's.
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  Speaker 3: A KFC, you know, just you know, crack open some
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  Speaker 3: tin vegetables or even frozen veggies.
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  Speaker 2: I think it's a real issue, and I find kids
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  Speaker 2: snacks too, is a real concern.
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  Speaker 3: I'm often you know, some of my latest segments on
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  Speaker 3: TV have been about the way that food is produced
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  Speaker 3: these days and the ingredients that goes into foods these days.
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  Speaker 3: It's so different to twenty years ago, and the additives
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  Speaker 3: and the preserved is and the sugar and look, we
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  Speaker 3: don't even have good standards in Australia for what goes
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  Speaker 3: into our baby and toddle of food, in our kids food,
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  Speaker 3: it's a nightmare.
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  Speaker 2: So yeah, I agree with you.
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  Speaker 3: I feel like it's making them money, but it's not
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  Speaker 3: necessarily doing the right thing for our children or for us.
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  Speaker 1: I'm talking to Corona Savage, Karna runs Nourishing Kids, been
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  Speaker 1: a pediatric dietitian for twenty three years. Karina, let me
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  Speaker 1: pick your up on something you just said. You said,
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  Speaker 1: go past the fast food joint because if you eat
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  Speaker 1: a tenni spaghetti on toast or a ten of baked
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  Speaker 1: beans on toast when you get home, Am I hearing
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  Speaker 1: you right? That that's to be better few kids?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah? At tinner baked beans? Not necessarily?
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  Speaker 3: Oh right, Okay, absolutely, there's you know, quick and easy
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  Speaker 3: food that you can make at home that's going to
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  Speaker 3: be probably cheaper and you shouldn't feel guilty about it
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  Speaker 3: because there's actually going to nourish them so much more
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  Speaker 3: than stopping off and getting the fast food. You know,
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  Speaker 3: look in the fridge, pull pull out literally a cara
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  Speaker 3: cucumber and caps can chop it up and pop bobbit
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  Speaker 3: next to some make beans on toast, and that's a
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  Speaker 3: very nutritious dinner and parents shouldn't feel guilty about that.
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  Speaker 3: And I think that's a really good, quick, easy meal
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  Speaker 3: to incorporate into your weekly menu.
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  Speaker 1: We have we have two nights a week in our
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  Speaker 1: food diary that are kind of like that. One of
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  Speaker 1: them is called whatever Wednesday. So we have that. We
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  Speaker 1: have no meat Monday, and we have Tyco Tuesday, which
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  Speaker 1: which is really just Mexican. It'll be any number of
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  Speaker 1: different Mexican dishes. And by Wednesday, we can't like, yeah, whatever,
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  Speaker 1: like just what's in the fridge? What can we make?
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  Speaker 1: And it literally it might be it might be some eggs,
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  Speaker 1: it might be some baked beans. Really really low key
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  Speaker 1: whatever Wednesday. And we also when Kylie and I go
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  Speaker 1: out on date night, we just say the kids that
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  Speaker 1: say yo yo night. Yo yo night means you're on
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  Speaker 1: your own. And so again the kids are literally just
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  Speaker 1: they've got to figure it out. They're on their own.
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  Speaker 1: We're teaching them culinary skills. Apparently, when I'm thinking about
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  Speaker 1: this big food industrial complex and the time poor issues
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  Speaker 1: and everything that you've said, I'm reminded of a book,
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  Speaker 1: one of my favorite books. It's by a guy called
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  Speaker 1: Michael Pollen. It's called Food Rules, and in that book,
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  Speaker 1: it's just a whole lot of dietary rules, really simple
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  Speaker 1: to read, like you can read the whole book in
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  Speaker 1: an hour hour and a half. And two of them
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  Speaker 1: have jumped out at me as i'm listening to what
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  Speaker 1: you're describing. Number one, when you do your grocery shopping
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  Speaker 1: shop the periphery of the supermarket. What he's basically saying
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  Speaker 1: is if you go up and down the aisles, that's
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  Speaker 1: what all the process stuff is. That's where all the
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  Speaker 1: stuff is that doesn't have real food in it. That's
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  Speaker 1: all the additives, all the chemicals, all the stuff that's
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  Speaker 1: been processed and manufactured. If it's manufactured, it's probably not food.
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  Speaker 1: Whereas if you do the periphery, you've got your fruit
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  Speaker 1: and your veggies, you've got your milk, and your dairy
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  Speaker 1: and your meat. Eat all that stuff's around the periphery
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  Speaker 1: of the supermarket. That's a rule that's really stuck with me,
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  Speaker 1: and I love that one. The other one that he
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  Speaker 1: talks about again tying in with everything you've just said,
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  Speaker 1: is this idea that you should really only eat food
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  Speaker 1: that your grandma or maybe in twenty twenty four, that
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  Speaker 1: your great grandma would recognize as food. So if you
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  Speaker 1: serve it up on the plate and she's like, what's this,
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  Speaker 1: you'd be like, Okay, this isn't food that my great
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  Speaker 1: grandmother would recognize. Therefore maybe it's not food at all.
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  Speaker 1: What's your take on that and how does that work
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  Speaker 1: in a family?
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  Speaker 2: Look, I love that.
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  Speaker 3: I love both of those and I think you know,
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  Speaker 3: a lot of what I talk about inside and Russian
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  Speaker 3: Kids is just trying to strip it back, getting it
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  Speaker 3: back to basics.
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  Speaker 2: And I absolutely agree.
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  Speaker 3: If you don't know what that ingredient is, or your
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  Speaker 3: grandma wouldn't know what that ingredient is, just leave it
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  Speaker 3: on the shelf.
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  Speaker 2: It's about trying to.
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  Speaker 3: Not feel like you have to fill your kids lunchboxes
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  Speaker 3: with all this package stuff just because that's what their
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  Speaker 3: friends are having, or serve up.
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  Speaker 2: The you know, the dunk dinner because that's all they're
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  Speaker 2: going to eat.
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  Speaker 3: Is about trying to strip it back and go, look,
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  Speaker 3: let's eat together, Let's just put decent food on the table.
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  Speaker 3: Fussy eaters do still need what I call some safe foods,
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  Speaker 3: and that's where we go into those strategies about incorporating
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  Speaker 3: the foods that they are enjoying and then put some
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  Speaker 3: of the foods that their learnings like on the plate,
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  Speaker 3: but absolutely trying to strip it back to basic food.
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  Speaker 3: I always encourage people to look for shorter ingredients lists,
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  Speaker 3: less additives and preservatives, and trying to keep it as
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  Speaker 3: simple as possible, because it's so easy now just to
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  Speaker 3: grab things that our kids like, but they're not good
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  Speaker 3: for them. And it's almost become a norm because everyone's
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  Speaker 3: doing it, and that's a concern because it's definitely getting
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  Speaker 3: out of control and we don't have that, as I said,
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  Speaker 3: enough regulations.
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  Speaker 2: At protecting our children.
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  Speaker 3: So really trying to strip it back yet, shop the periphery,
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  Speaker 3: hit the ingredients list as small as possible, trying to
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  Speaker 3: buy fresh or as close to nature as possible. I say,
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  Speaker 3: you know, if it hasn't come out of the ground
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  Speaker 3: or off a tree, then it's probably quite highly processed.
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  Speaker 3: And that's when we start to get into trouble because
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  Speaker 3: over the weeks and the months and the years, all
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  Speaker 3: that processed food is really changing our gut health and
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  Speaker 3: our gut health is the center of our universe from
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  Speaker 3: a health perspective.
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  Speaker 1: So Karina, two questions on this. First off, it feels
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  Speaker 1: like everyone knows the stuff that you're saying, but because
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  Speaker 1: of the reasons we've discussed, I mean, we're really fighting
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  Speaker 1: against psychology, We're fighting against marketing giants, we're fighting against
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  Speaker 1: this big food industrial complex, we're fighting against physiology because
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  Speaker 1: we're so drawn and our kids are so drawn to
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  Speaker 1: these less healthy foods. You've talked about gut health and
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  Speaker 1: going to come back to that in just a sec
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  Speaker 1: but maybe just a simpler question first, As a dad
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  Speaker 1: who's got this kid who is kind of painful around food,
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  Speaker 1: we put food on her plate that she likes, and
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  Speaker 1: we try to introduce new foods and come up against
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  Speaker 1: all kinds of resistance pretty consistently. What are the biggest
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  Speaker 1: misconceptions that parents have about getting their kids to eat
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  Speaker 1: healthy stuff.
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  Speaker 3: I think the first misconception is if their child doesn't
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  Speaker 3: eat it, A lot of people fulfill it's their own fault,
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  Speaker 3: it's the parent's fault. And I talk a lot in
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  Speaker 3: Nussan Kids about the fact that it's not necessarily the
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  Speaker 3: parent's fault.
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  Speaker 2: It's the child still learning to like food. Now. Absolutely
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  Speaker 2: there's things that parents can.
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  Speaker 3: Do to increase familiarity and trust in food over time,
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  Speaker 3: but it's certainly not the parent's fault because it is
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  Speaker 3: very normal for children to refuse foods. It is very
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  Speaker 3: normal for children to take time. I call it continuum
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  Speaker 3: of learning to like a food, from complete food refusal
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  Speaker 3: right to the other end where they are loving the food.
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  Speaker 2: But there's lots of little.
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  Speaker 3: Micro jumps along that journey, and often we don't recognize
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  Speaker 3: if a kid's picking it up, squishing it in their hands,
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  Speaker 3: picking it up, licking it, chewing it, spitting.
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  Speaker 2: Out again, that can actually be progressed.
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  Speaker 3: We don't necessarily acknowledge that as progress moving along that
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  Speaker 3: continuum to eventually accepting the food. So I think not
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  Speaker 3: recognizing those small winds can be an issue because you think, oh,
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  Speaker 3: they've just refused it again, they're never going to eat it.
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  Speaker 3: So our own mindset and our own energy at the
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  Speaker 3: table can play a big role. Sponges and they absorb
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  Speaker 3: everything from us. So if we're only negative, if we
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  Speaker 3: talk about them being a fussy eater to our friends,
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  Speaker 3: then our external words become their internal words. They then think, oh,
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  Speaker 3: I'm a fussy eat and that reinforces it. I think
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  Speaker 3: making sure that when we're serving up food it's tasty's
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  Speaker 3: we keep mial times fun and like we roll model
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  Speaker 3: those healthy eating behaviors ourselves, because sometimes when I'll speak
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  Speaker 3: to families and the child's fussy, you know, halfway through
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  Speaker 3: the console, it'll be like, oh and oh yeah, that's
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  Speaker 3: exactly the same.
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  Speaker 2: Sorry.
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  Speaker 3: So it's about role modeling those healthy eating behaviors right
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  Speaker 3: from the get go, because children tend to learn to
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  Speaker 3: like foods that are familiar to the family, and if
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  Speaker 3: they're having family meal times where they see the rest
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  Speaker 3: of their family eating and enjoying food, then eventually they
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  Speaker 3: will learn to like that. Well most of them time,
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  Speaker 3: they will learn to like those foods themselves. So there's
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  Speaker 3: lots of I call it a feeding ecosystem. There's lots
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  Speaker 3: of little factors which will influence at child's willingness to
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  Speaker 3: eat a food. But it's about trying to get some
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  Speaker 3: of those fundamentals right and then they will eventually get there.
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  Speaker 1: Listening to what you're saying, Krener, I'm thinking when I
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  Speaker 1: was a kid, I don't think that I was fussy
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  Speaker 1: but there's heap of food that I wouldn't eat that
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  Speaker 1: I absolutely love now exactly. So I'm looking at my
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  Speaker 1: kids and I'm thinking, with a couple of them, in particularly,
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  Speaker 1: why can't you eat this avocado? Like avocado is so good?
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  Speaker 1: And when we make it into this salsa with the
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  Speaker 1: corn and the cherry tomatoes and we put it with
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  Speaker 1: poached eggs like heaven, and they don't even like poached eggs.
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  Speaker 1: I'm like, what is the matter with you? Why do
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  Speaker 1: you only eat scrambled or fried? And yet as you
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  Speaker 1: get older you do kind of expand. So I guess
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  Speaker 1: there's some hope there for any parent who's saying, yeah,
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  Speaker 1: my child has these fussy eating habits, or my child
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  Speaker 1: has some sensory issues. We're just not making progress over time.
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  Speaker 1: As they get older, they usually will.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's true.
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  Speaker 3: And actually on that sorry, it's understanding why they're fussy
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  Speaker 3: in the first place is a really key factor, because
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  Speaker 3: you see these things on Instagram about, you know, just
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  Speaker 3: make a funny face on the plate. But if they've
• 14:56
  Speaker 3: got sent three issues, it's not necessarily going to fix it.
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: So I talk lot about why I've got a fuss
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: eating program that sits inside Nurishing Kids and we go
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: into detail why understanding why a child is fussy because
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: then you can then put the right fix in place.
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: So it's getting that match up as well, because yeah,
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: cents three could be avocado could be a sensory issue there.
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I love this. I want to ask you
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: about the gut biome, but we're out of time.
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: Do you reckon? Do you reckon that?
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: You'd be happy to come back on the podcast and
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: have a chat about that maybe in a week or so.
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I love it.
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: I'm a gut health geek, so anytime more than happy
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: to All.
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: Right, sounds great.
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: Karina Savage is a pediatric dietitian. She runs Nourishing Kids.
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: Karina whereabouts can people find more about Nourishing Kids, the
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: membership and the service that you offer.
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: Yes, so if they can head to my website which
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: is www dot nourish with Karina dot com. So it's
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: Nourished with Karina k A r i NA dot com
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: and all the information there.
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: All right, let's talk gut biomes next week. It's something
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: I'm fascinated by. I'm looking forward to that. Karina Savage
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: is a pediatric dietitian living and working in Sydney. Nourishment
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: with Karina dot Com is the website. We'll link to
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: that in the show notes, and we'll chat more next week.
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: The Happy Families podcast is produced by Justin Rawan from
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: Bridge Media. More information about making your family happier is
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: available at happy families dot com, dot a you