Latest / OneLegUpAlex Media / Celebrating Independence Day Week With Richard Howell and OneLegUpAlex! 7-2-25

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Celebrating Independence Day Week With Richard Howell and OneLegUpAlex! 7-2-25 · OneLegUpAlex Media

0:00
Speaker 1: I see firewords, I see the patchams an uff it away.
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Speaker 2: That is from the musical seventeen seventy six, because on
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Speaker 2: July second, seventeen seventy six, John Adams proclaimed that this date,
0:20
Speaker 2: the second of July seventeen seventy six, would be the
0:23
Speaker 2: most memorable for America. It's the day the Declaration of
0:26
Speaker 2: Independence was approved. Now, the fireworks do come after the
0:31
Speaker 2: signing of the declaration on July fourth, and as we
0:34
Speaker 2: honor this history, this American history, I am excited to
0:39
Speaker 2: welcome back Richard Howell. You know him as a reenactor
0:42
Speaker 2: and a historian. Well, he joins me here on Alex
0:46
Speaker 2: Garrett's One Leg Up Network. Richard's so excited to have
0:48
Speaker 2: you on as we commemorate two hundred and forty nine
0:51
Speaker 2: years of American independence.
0:53
Speaker 1: Great to be back, It's great to be back. Well,
0:56
Speaker 1: today's today. They approved the resolution, which is why we
0:59
Speaker 1: sell break the fourth And Adams did celebrate the fourth
1:02
Speaker 1: after himself, so he was pretty clear and what day
1:06
Speaker 1: that we probably wanted to celebrate. But there were reasons
1:08
Speaker 1: why he said what he said about the second, which
1:10
Speaker 1: I think is important to talk about.
1:12
Speaker 2: So let's dive into it. Because obviously you are a
1:14
Speaker 2: big historian. You've done enactments about the microevolutional War. But
1:19
Speaker 2: I do feel like July second is worth noting, because
1:22
Speaker 2: not many do.
1:24
Speaker 1: No. I think you're right. I think it is worth noting.
1:28
Speaker 1: And you know, it's you know, with with me and
1:32
Speaker 1: and you know, and doing all the research I've done
1:36
Speaker 1: over the last several decades. It's there are a lot
1:39
Speaker 1: of dates that we should note that we don't. And
1:42
Speaker 1: obviously this is a good one because you know, you're
1:45
Speaker 1: two days ahead of the Declaration of Independence. And also too,
1:52
Speaker 1: you know, it celebrates the passing of the Lee Resolution
1:56
Speaker 1: or the Virginia Resolution, that was at the heart of
1:59
Speaker 1: the declare you know very much a story and it
2:02
Speaker 1: proves and it demonstrates that the declaration itself was a
2:07
Speaker 1: massive undertaking, a you know, a seminal work that took
2:14
Speaker 1: months to put together.
2:18
Speaker 2: And you would say, blood, sweat and tears went into
2:20
Speaker 2: this resolution because they literally fought.
2:22
Speaker 1: To be free. Right.
2:26
Speaker 2: And so when you say, when you say months and months,
2:29
Speaker 2: are we talking seventeen seventy five? Way back when or
2:33
Speaker 2: even before.
2:33
Speaker 1: That, well, you know, in different senses, way before. In
2:39
Speaker 1: other senses, throughout the war itself. What I was referring
2:44
Speaker 1: to more immediately was the declaration itself, or you know,
2:48
Speaker 1: the move to independence, which was not you know, decided
2:51
Speaker 1: within a couple of days. It was over, as you understand.
2:55
Speaker 1: I mean, it was over a number of months when
2:57
Speaker 1: people were becoming getting to that realization was in the
3:00
Speaker 1: backs of their minds before. But initially early on it
3:05
Speaker 1: wasn't seen as a move that had to be taken
3:09
Speaker 1: at that point, and.
3:11
Speaker 2: So well, it took about it was about a seven
3:16
Speaker 2: month thought process, or six months, he wrote in his
3:19
Speaker 2: letter to Abigail if this was done months ago, so
3:21
Speaker 2: obviously was on the back of his mind as well.
3:23
Speaker 1: Oh it was, yeah, And and understand in the case
3:27
Speaker 1: of both Adams and both Lee's, you know, the war
3:32
Speaker 1: had raged, particularly in Massachusetts, but Virginia too had its
3:35
Speaker 1: share of fighting, and it would have a lot more
3:38
Speaker 1: later on. So it was a culmination not just of
3:44
Speaker 1: the culture in New England and in Massachusetts, but what
3:47
Speaker 1: physically was happening up there.
3:50
Speaker 2: And for full disclosure, you're coming to us from Massachusetts,
3:53
Speaker 2: aren't there?
3:55
Speaker 1: I am, But when I speak, I don't speak, Uh,
3:58
Speaker 1: some people do. By the way, and that's fine if
4:01
Speaker 1: that's their perspective. But I mean to me, it's important
4:04
Speaker 1: to speak more from an ecumenical standpoint. I happen to
4:08
Speaker 1: live here, but I could certainly give you the history
4:11
Speaker 1: of Pennsylvania and Virginia in South Carolina as I can
4:14
Speaker 1: with Massachusetts. And it's important because you know Patrick Henry's
4:20
Speaker 1: seminal speech at Saint John's Church in March of seventeen
4:26
Speaker 1: seventy five, late March seventeen seventy five, where he's talking
4:30
Speaker 1: about armies already on the March. It was not only prolific,
4:34
Speaker 1: it was highly accurate. And he would have known because
4:38
Speaker 1: he was corresponding with the men from Massachusetts. They were
4:40
Speaker 1: all on the Court committees of correspondence, most of them,
4:43
Speaker 1: I should say were, And I mean we're talking less
4:47
Speaker 1: than we're talking within two weeks of Lexington and Conqueror.
4:50
Speaker 1: We're talking a month after the Salem incident. It just
4:53
Speaker 1: happens to be. They started in Massachusetts, but there was
4:56
Speaker 1: a reason why. But as soon as the fighting started,
5:02
Speaker 1: particularly after the last seminal event that we had on
5:06
Speaker 1: June fourteenth, you know, the two hundred and fiftieth anniversary
5:11
Speaker 1: of the establishment of the Army in October fifteenth, where
5:17
Speaker 1: we're going to have the establishment of the US Navy.
5:23
Speaker 1: You know, those events in and out of themselves are
5:27
Speaker 1: not moved to independence because there have been civil wars
5:30
Speaker 1: in the English speaking realm for hundreds of years over
5:33
Speaker 1: these issues, and this was just the litist in a
5:37
Speaker 1: series of them, but well probably the biggest of them.
5:40
Speaker 1: But I mean, certainly, you know, it did not necessarily
5:45
Speaker 1: mean independence at that time, but it was starting to
5:47
Speaker 1: dawn on people. And the reason it was, it's very simple.
5:53
Speaker 1: There was no redress certainly to the Crown. Forget it.
5:55
Speaker 1: They had the Olive Branch petitioner went out to him,
5:59
Speaker 1: you know, soon after Lexington had conquered, he ignored it.
6:04
Speaker 1: You also had no redress with Parliament because the Tories
6:08
Speaker 1: went through George the Third and we talked about how
6:10
Speaker 1: that happened controlled Parliament. Now they were going to lose
6:13
Speaker 1: control of it in late seventeen eighty one, early seventeen
6:16
Speaker 1: eighty two, which is why the war ends part of it.
6:20
Speaker 1: And of course the Supreme Court, their High Court just
6:25
Speaker 1: recently separated a few years ago, was part of the
6:28
Speaker 1: House of Lords. So the Chief Judge Chief Justice was
6:33
Speaker 1: a Tory, so there was no recourse. There was literally
6:35
Speaker 1: nobody to appeal to there. And that's why you see
6:39
Speaker 1: the break after you know, a year and three months
6:42
Speaker 1: of warfare almost that's when you see this break happening, and.
6:47
Speaker 2: This break meaning we break away from.
6:49
Speaker 1: We declare independence.
6:51
Speaker 2: Now you know, we didn't even catch up with you
6:54
Speaker 2: in April when you were part of the historic reenactment
6:57
Speaker 2: of the Paul Revere Rye. But let's talk about that
6:59
Speaker 2: for a minute, because obviously we're not in America two
7:02
Speaker 2: fifty yet. We're getting there. But that ride sort of
7:05
Speaker 2: is a kickoff to all of this, isn't it?
7:09
Speaker 1: Very many ways? And in Paul Revere himself because he
7:13
Speaker 1: developed an alarm system. I think we talked about this
7:15
Speaker 1: once before too. He had developed an alarm system in
7:19
Speaker 1: seventeen seventy four that didn't just spread through New England,
7:23
Speaker 1: but working with again other committees of correspondence, which were
7:28
Speaker 1: the members of the legislature, the leading provincial statesmen of
7:32
Speaker 1: the time, getting together and determining the course of action
7:36
Speaker 1: to protect themselves because it wasn't a matter of if,
7:39
Speaker 1: it was a matter of when hostilities were to break
7:41
Speaker 1: out and so when his writers would go down, they
7:46
Speaker 1: would meet up with other writers who knew them, and
7:48
Speaker 1: they would spread the word all the way to Georgia.
7:50
Speaker 1: And that happened, and it happened on April nineteenth. I mean,
7:53
Speaker 1: it took a few days obviously at that time to
7:55
Speaker 1: get farther down, but it does get down there.
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Speaker 2: What would with the reenactment? What was there your role?
8:03
Speaker 1: Oh? Well, you know, they did two parts of the
8:06
Speaker 1: Paul Revere Ride because you know it's quite lengthy, and
8:11
Speaker 1: so they did the part in Boston where he crosses
8:14
Speaker 1: over into Charlestown. That was another friend of mine who
8:17
Speaker 1: did that, and that part of it ended in Charlestown
8:23
Speaker 1: and then in Cambridge where he rides out right next
8:26
Speaker 1: door I'm sorry, Somerville, you know, which is used to
8:31
Speaker 1: be part of Charlestown. So my part was with our
8:35
Speaker 1: fellow Lexington minutemen, we recreate the ride from the center
8:40
Speaker 1: of Lexington to the Hancock Clark House, which is only
8:43
Speaker 1: a few blocks away, and that is where he actually
8:46
Speaker 1: warns Adams and Hancock about what is happening. He goes
8:49
Speaker 1: to at that point, which is the home of Jonas Clark,
8:53
Speaker 1: famous Black robe regimen gentlemen and very influential in the
8:58
Speaker 1: town of Lexington and Mary to Handclock's cousin because their
9:02
Speaker 1: grandfather had been the first minister there. Now Clark never
9:05
Speaker 1: met him because he died two years before Clark takes
9:09
Speaker 1: over his parsonage, but very very interesting, So we recreate
9:13
Speaker 1: that history there.
9:15
Speaker 2: You know, I would say Revere and then you know
9:18
Speaker 2: John Adams. People kind of know of him with Masschuss,
9:21
Speaker 2: but it's worth reiterating. He's also would you say he's
9:24
Speaker 2: one of the proud sons of mess Ters. Is he
9:27
Speaker 2: glorified up there or what is y? How measures feel
9:30
Speaker 2: about him today?
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Speaker 1: I think it's funny because over the years, in the decades,
9:35
Speaker 1: the focus had been taken away from the founders and
9:37
Speaker 1: taken the more contemporary people, and that's shifted back again.
9:42
Speaker 1: So Adams, I mean, I'm going to say we kind
9:46
Speaker 1: of hit bottom at the bi centennial when it came
9:49
Speaker 1: to misinterpreting the American Revolution, in other words, what I
9:51
Speaker 1: call the Deconstructionist era, which was roughly seventy five years
9:55
Speaker 1: before that. You know, around nineteen hundred you start to see, hey,
10:00
Speaker 1: you know, this Constitution is really not that great and
10:03
Speaker 1: these founders really weren't, and it got worse and worse
10:06
Speaker 1: as that error progressed. Well, I'm going to say Adams
10:12
Speaker 1: had quite a renaissance obviously with the vice Centennial. People
10:17
Speaker 1: up until that point had only known him as the
10:19
Speaker 1: guy that succeeded George Washington as the president. But then
10:23
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, the stories were coming out that
10:26
Speaker 1: he was the man responsible ultimately for nominating, at first
10:30
Speaker 1: openly and then secondly behind the scenes, Washington's appointment as
10:34
Speaker 1: Commander in Chief of the Army for the June fifteenth Day.
10:39
Speaker 1: The other thing is his role in the Declaration of Independence.
10:43
Speaker 1: People were starting to remember that Jefferson had written it,
10:45
Speaker 1: because that had been forgotten a little bit too, But
10:47
Speaker 1: he had written it, but Adams was the vocal progenitor
10:52
Speaker 1: for it on the floor of the Congress, and Jefferson
10:55
Speaker 1: gave him credit for that. He said he was the
10:57
Speaker 1: one that shepherded through with his voice. Adams gave Jefferson
11:01
Speaker 1: the credit, saying he's the one to put it together
11:03
Speaker 1: with his pen. Each man really complimented the other.
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Speaker 2: Now, speaking of Jefferson, have you ever been to the
11:08
Speaker 2: Jefferson House or do they do any events at the
11:10
Speaker 2: Jefferson House that you know, never have they have.
11:13
Speaker 1: Ironically, the last one I did, it's a little off topic.
11:16
Speaker 1: It was to celebrate Lafayette's final visit to America, and
11:21
Speaker 1: both Jefferson and Adams were alive at that time, and
11:24
Speaker 1: I took partner reenactment not just at Monticello, but at
11:28
Speaker 1: the University of Virginia. We created a dinner and it
11:31
Speaker 1: was held in that very rule and just a couple
11:35
Speaker 1: of months prior we created it at the Adams homestead
11:38
Speaker 1: as well, when he went to visit there.
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Speaker 2: Oh cool. Well, this is the thing about you and
11:43
Speaker 2: the enactment is that the founding of the military turn
11:46
Speaker 2: fifty years ago made all of this possible for you.
11:49
Speaker 2: So I'm sure you not only are proud of our military,
11:52
Speaker 2: you're kind of there's sort of a gratitude for it
11:55
Speaker 2: because hey, it's given you your your line of work,
11:57
Speaker 2: because you deal with the muskets, you deal with all
12:00
Speaker 2: the armaments.
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Speaker 1: Right, Yes, Oh sure, you know, and I've certainly learned
12:04
Speaker 1: a whole new dimension, you know, since getting into that.
12:08
Speaker 1: I was blessed enough to start with a horse dragoon
12:11
Speaker 1: unit for ten years and then an artillery unit for
12:14
Speaker 1: five years, and then got into the Lexington Minutemen. You know,
12:17
Speaker 1: its basically an infantry unit, for lack of a better term,
12:22
Speaker 1: which it is. So I did learn, you know, all
12:25
Speaker 1: those aspects of the fighting I land at least.
12:30
Speaker 2: That's so. That's so interesting. And I've yet to do
12:33
Speaker 2: see one of those reinactments. I gotta I gotta catch
12:35
Speaker 2: it one of these years. You know, this seems very interesting.
12:38
Speaker 2: And you've done We've done a lot before, but you've
12:40
Speaker 2: done Gettysburg. You've done all the different circuits, right.
12:43
Speaker 1: I did Gettysburg as a passive one. I was dressed,
12:47
Speaker 1: but I have never I've been asked to, but I've
12:49
Speaker 1: never actually fielded in civil war, although I have Civil
12:51
Speaker 1: war uniforms too. Wow.
12:53
Speaker 2: What are you wearing right now as we talk to you,
12:55
Speaker 2: by the way, Well, what I have.
12:57
Speaker 1: On we call these small clothes, and small clothes happened
13:04
Speaker 1: to be the vest of the waistcoat and the breeches
13:08
Speaker 1: and the shirt, and I have a next stock on
13:10
Speaker 1: and I have a frilly shirt on. For the podcast,
13:13
Speaker 1: I figured i'd wear my my finery. And so these
13:18
Speaker 1: are actually a uniform piece for a continental officer. I
13:22
Speaker 1: have a I have a major general regimental cote upstairs
13:28
Speaker 1: that matches this. It's just so hot today. I didn't
13:32
Speaker 1: have it on, but.
13:35
Speaker 2: I asked one of my earlier guests today, Richard Battle,
13:38
Speaker 2: about this. I feel like generals back in the day
13:41
Speaker 2: are so much more revered. I mean, obviously Washington reviered,
13:44
Speaker 2: then the list goes from then on. Why aren't today's
13:48
Speaker 2: generals that continue to, you know, keep the military going,
13:52
Speaker 2: keep leading the military revered as much.
13:56
Speaker 1: Because so much had changed in how the government worked,
14:03
Speaker 1: how it was seen. We have far more generals today
14:09
Speaker 1: we've ever had in our history, meaning that a lot
14:12
Speaker 1: of them are made generals for political reasons. So when
14:16
Speaker 1: we've had recent year combats, obviously some exceptions, I think
14:20
Speaker 1: we're getting back to that now. But you know, with
14:23
Speaker 1: about five years ago, ten years ago, certainly these were
14:28
Speaker 1: not the battlefield commanders of your and you really didn't
14:32
Speaker 1: see that very much after the Civil War, obviously with
14:38
Speaker 1: war becoming far more mechanized over the years, but it
14:42
Speaker 1: was a different kind of man. It was there as well,
14:44
Speaker 1: and not just the technology. That's why.
14:47
Speaker 2: Also also today's generals s feel a little more political.
14:50
Speaker 2: If I can say that, well.
14:51
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, they're not always tried and proven, so it's different.
14:57
Speaker 1: You know, these men literally died for the country, but
15:00
Speaker 1: these men, I'll stop there, but it's not quite the same.
15:04
Speaker 1: And so it wasn't and I think again it's changing now.
15:07
Speaker 1: But I will say this much at the time with
15:11
Speaker 1: a declaration and why people fought. You know, oh, these
15:14
Speaker 1: men fought for no money. What a travesty. They weren't
15:16
Speaker 1: paid that. They didn't do it for money. They did
15:19
Speaker 1: it to maintain their livelihoods and their lives. There were
15:23
Speaker 1: times when they needed to break away because their farms
15:25
Speaker 1: and their livelihoods and their families are literally falling apart,
15:29
Speaker 1: and they would go back, but you know, many of
15:32
Speaker 1: them would stay as well, and their families would heave too.
15:34
Speaker 1: So they did as best as they could. And it
15:37
Speaker 1: wasn't just you know, on the on the more humble
15:41
Speaker 1: end of the spectrum. The Adams and the Jeffersons went
15:45
Speaker 1: through it too, and they had a lot where they
15:48
Speaker 1: had literally the women had to keep those families together,
15:52
Speaker 1: especially not just their husbands going off, but their sons
15:55
Speaker 1: were starting to go off too, and so you know,
15:58
Speaker 1: you had that and of course not only were they
16:01
Speaker 1: watching their husbands and their sons go off, their brothers,
16:03
Speaker 1: their nephews, their fathers in some cases, and if the
16:07
Speaker 1: lady was older, she would see a couple of three
16:09
Speaker 1: generations going out in many.
16:12
Speaker 2: Well, you know, it's amazing we in New York have
16:13
Speaker 2: the sons of the American Revolution and they kind of
16:16
Speaker 2: highlight all of that as well. Have you been connected
16:18
Speaker 2: with them at all?
16:19
Speaker 1: Or oh yes, yeah, so I work with different essayar
16:22
Speaker 1: groups over the years, different events and such and DAR events. Obviously,
16:28
Speaker 1: essayrs are becoming more active over the years. Used to
16:31
Speaker 1: be the drs did most everything the essaars, but the
16:35
Speaker 1: essays are able to do a little bit more as
16:37
Speaker 1: they were able to recreate because they are men. You know.
16:41
Speaker 1: The uniform for you know, membership the females are somewhat
16:46
Speaker 1: limited there because in continental units you did have some
16:50
Speaker 1: uniform pieces for women, you know, the staff. That was
16:53
Speaker 1: not uncommon in European armies either, so kind of where
16:58
Speaker 1: that came from. But usually they would dress up in
17:01
Speaker 1: the period clothing for the women like you would see
17:03
Speaker 1: at the best tie ross house. You know.
17:05
Speaker 2: You know, you were also part of the very first
17:08
Speaker 2: inkling of a revolution, which was to me the Boston
17:10
Speaker 2: Tea Party. I mean, when they dumped the tea in
17:12
Speaker 2: the river, that kind of was the spark that ignited this,
17:16
Speaker 2: all right, Oh.
17:18
Speaker 1: Yeah, well it was part of it. It was a culmination.
17:21
Speaker 1: And it was funny because I had done another segment
17:24
Speaker 1: earlier and one of the things I had talked about
17:27
Speaker 1: leading up to the declaration, what about this taxing situation?
17:33
Speaker 1: What about this tea situation? And you know, for years
17:37
Speaker 1: and years after that generation passed and things got watered
17:42
Speaker 1: down a bit. The Victorian era, later Victorian era, tried
17:46
Speaker 1: to resurrect it, and they didn't have everything quite there.
17:49
Speaker 1: So the deconstructionists were able to come in and knock
17:51
Speaker 1: the legs out from under them, but they created more
17:54
Speaker 1: mysts that were worse. The reason that tea got dumped
17:59
Speaker 1: was one those ships that had come over were American ships.
18:04
Speaker 1: They were not owned by English or English whigs or
18:08
Speaker 1: even English tories. They were owned by and there's a difference.
18:11
Speaker 1: They were owned by the Americans, and in every case
18:15
Speaker 1: saved one that tea was brought aboard without their knowledge
18:22
Speaker 1: or their permission, and by the time they had sale,
18:26
Speaker 1: they discovered this was in their hold. And the reason
18:29
Speaker 1: they didn't want it was because they knew one there
18:33
Speaker 1: was a lot of controveriversity with it. They didn't want
18:36
Speaker 1: to destroy the other trade they had because they had
18:39
Speaker 1: valuable goods that people needed, not just in Boston, but
18:42
Speaker 1: in other towns, because some of those ships are going
18:44
Speaker 1: to other towns where they received similar treatment. They themselves
18:50
Speaker 1: did not want to be forced thunder that tax that
18:54
Speaker 1: that was put on the tea was put on there
18:57
Speaker 1: so the king would be able to pay off administrators
19:01
Speaker 1: in the colonies that were henceforth paid by the colonies themselves.
19:05
Speaker 1: So once you did that, guess who they were going
19:07
Speaker 1: to be be. Well, he first of all would put
19:09
Speaker 1: his own men in there, and then he'd be able
19:11
Speaker 1: to pay them out of the money he was raising here.
19:13
Speaker 1: And they said, this isn't even done to our legislators.
19:15
Speaker 1: This is completely illegal by English constitutional law, which they had.
19:20
Speaker 2: By the way, it sounds like the not in my
19:22
Speaker 2: backyard has been a thing that's not just a modern
19:25
Speaker 2: day theme. It's dated back two hundred and forty nine
19:28
Speaker 2: plus years. I mean even the the you know, the
19:31
Speaker 2: colonials and those who thought the revolution did not want
19:35
Speaker 2: the government in their hair at all.
19:37
Speaker 1: No, And it happened in England. It happened in the
19:40
Speaker 1: English Civil War, it happened in the glorious Revolution of
19:44
Speaker 1: sixteen eighty nine, And those are events that were very
19:48
Speaker 1: much in these men's minds. And it was in England too,
19:50
Speaker 1: by the way. And there's a reason why things exploded
19:54
Speaker 1: here and not there, because they could have easily exploded
19:57
Speaker 1: there as well. But George the third was trying to
19:59
Speaker 1: play it smart. But that's why they dumped the tea
20:02
Speaker 1: in the harbor. Now, what they were trying to do
20:05
Speaker 1: was sail back out. But another story that's not well
20:08
Speaker 1: known is the British Admiral mull and Narrow threatened to
20:11
Speaker 1: blow those ships out of the water and sink them
20:13
Speaker 1: if they tried to get away. So that's when the
20:16
Speaker 1: owners came in with the sons of liberty and they said, look,
20:21
Speaker 1: you know, we'll give me you get on the ship,
20:24
Speaker 1: make sure that we don't in trouble with the customs.
20:26
Speaker 1: People don't interfere with us, and which they promised that
20:29
Speaker 1: was going to happen. So they helped each other and
20:31
Speaker 1: their cruising those captains to partn it. The only ship
20:34
Speaker 1: that was an exception to One of the ship's captains
20:37
Speaker 1: was a Tory, and he saw the t allowed the
20:41
Speaker 1: tea to come on. But he was the only official.
20:42
Speaker 1: But he was the captain, so he could do it.
20:45
Speaker 1: He was the only one, and his owner really was
20:48
Speaker 1: very angry with him that this had happened, and his
20:50
Speaker 1: crew turned around and helped dump some of the tea overboard.
20:54
Speaker 1: So you know, he was a man on one, but
20:56
Speaker 1: he was the only one that had a claim to way. Yeah,
20:59
Speaker 1: I knew it was there, and so it was a
21:02
Speaker 1: very very pernicious operation on the other.
21:06
Speaker 2: End, Richard, I got to ask you, that's what I
21:08
Speaker 2: have rich Howell, and always glout to have you on
21:10
Speaker 2: my podcast. And it's amazing how a simple fate a
21:14
Speaker 2: meeting on July fourth, twenty twenty two has led to
21:17
Speaker 2: us having a friendship now, right, It's awesome how that's
21:20
Speaker 2: worked out. But Richard, I got to say this, you've
21:24
Speaker 2: been doing these reenactments and all that. Are you still
21:28
Speaker 2: in awe that these gentlemen just use muskets.
21:32
Speaker 1: We have tanks.
21:32
Speaker 2: Now, they had muskets to deal with and operate, and
21:36
Speaker 2: yet they were effectively able to you know, defeat the British.
21:40
Speaker 2: Is that still sticking in the back of your mind, Like, wow,
21:42
Speaker 2: that is amazing when you think about the mechanisms they
21:45
Speaker 2: had compared to today.
21:49
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, you know, it's studying warfare back to antiquity.
21:55
Speaker 1: It's not always the armament. It's the men and how
21:59
Speaker 1: they're led, uh, and the conditions at home that lead
22:03
Speaker 1: to the success and failure of these armies. And I mean,
22:09
Speaker 1: it wasn't like anybody had a technical advantage over anybody else.
22:12
Speaker 1: It's a little bit more like that today. But then
22:17
Speaker 1: you know, obviously because of the status that the that
22:21
Speaker 1: the UK had at that point, they certainly did have
22:25
Speaker 1: the weapons, but their navy had neglected it terribly. The
22:29
Speaker 1: army to a degree, have been neglected terribly. Understand, when
22:34
Speaker 1: the war starts, your average American militiamen had more battlefield
22:39
Speaker 1: experience than your average red coat in the ranks or
22:42
Speaker 1: your young officers in the ranks. Now that changes after
22:46
Speaker 1: they've leave taken out of Boston, after they're thrown out
22:49
Speaker 1: of Boston, Washington drives how out of Boston with Henry
22:52
Speaker 1: Knox's cannons, which we're going to be celebrating at the
22:54
Speaker 1: end of the year, the Ox Trail from Tekwonder Roga
22:57
Speaker 1: another great story. You know, the British Army now is
23:04
Speaker 1: not only equipped and supplied to a degree, now they're
23:08
Speaker 1: battle hardened. That's when they turn into the formidable force
23:11
Speaker 1: that becomes extremely difficult to defeat. And unfortunately for New
23:15
Speaker 1: Yorkers they have to bear the brunt of this. Initially
23:18
Speaker 1: they do quite well, but still, you know, they never
23:22
Speaker 1: really leave the confines in New York City. They really
23:25
Speaker 1: can't get out of there, but they do raids. They
23:28
Speaker 1: never left really the city of Boston except on one
23:32
Speaker 1: time when the shooting started. It almost tappened twice, but
23:36
Speaker 1: they never are able really to leave the city confines
23:38
Speaker 1: of Boston, except to that nun for ray in a
23:41
Speaker 1: bunker Hill and Charlestown, which they had previously and gave
23:44
Speaker 1: it up. So understand that the American colonies were a
23:53
Speaker 1: component part of the British Empire in ways that were
23:56
Speaker 1: on parallel in history. It hasn't been repeated the settlements.
24:00
Speaker 1: The fact that you had a duplicate parallel society really
24:06
Speaker 1: developing here. Obviously developed a little differently for the logistical
24:10
Speaker 1: reasons and cultural reasons, but it developed, and you never
24:14
Speaker 1: really quite saw the equal of that, even with the
24:17
Speaker 1: larger land empires at the time, because France and Spain
24:20
Speaker 1: had larger land empires at that time. You never saw
24:23
Speaker 1: it with the Russian empires or you know, later empires,
24:27
Speaker 1: which were pretty much dealing with you know, different circumstances there.
24:32
Speaker 1: They're native born, you know, you know, colonial populations were
24:38
Speaker 1: much smaller and so much different. So these men fought
24:43
Speaker 1: in the wars before that. Some of them were in
24:45
Speaker 1: the British Army and the British or a should we say,
24:47
Speaker 1: the English Army and English Navy, so they weren't completely
24:52
Speaker 1: you know, naive when it came to the ways of warfare.
24:55
Speaker 1: Many of them knew exactly what to do, which is
24:57
Speaker 1: why we were able to pull off what we did.
25:00
Speaker 2: In amazing fashion. Well, I gotta say this because days
25:04
Speaker 2: like July second, and of course July the fourth, and
25:08
Speaker 2: all the history of unfunding Fathers, you would also agree
25:11
Speaker 2: that that inspired the veterans and the soldiers that fought
25:15
Speaker 2: in World War One and World War two, and now
25:17
Speaker 2: that inspiration has trickled into those that fight today. I mean,
25:21
Speaker 2: the founding fathers were our original veterans, and soldiers. Oh yeah,
25:26
Speaker 2: the Verra PRIs him that way, do we.
25:28
Speaker 1: They were definitely the example Alex until nineteen fifty when
25:33
Speaker 1: the Korean War hitting in Vietnam. After that, I'm sure
25:37
Speaker 1: the military talked about them, but the political types did not.
25:41
Speaker 1: And my Centenno hits since seventy five, two years after
25:46
Speaker 1: our involvement in Vietnam, ends you know, much different, because
25:50
Speaker 1: all of a sudden it starts coming back again, slowly
25:55
Speaker 1: but surely, coming back to the point where today you
25:59
Speaker 1: saw the army raid. Who did they lead off with
26:01
Speaker 1: the old Guard?
26:02
Speaker 2: Sure?
26:03
Speaker 1: You know?
26:03
Speaker 2: And that was that pready excite? Did that a parade
26:06
Speaker 2: like make you feel anyway like emotional? Or or how
26:09
Speaker 2: did that watching that make you feel?
26:12
Speaker 1: Well? You know, it's funny because we've seen I've seen
26:14
Speaker 1: you'll guard at some of our events. They we'll show
26:16
Speaker 1: up at our events to Donald Williamsburg quite a bit
26:18
Speaker 1: because they're in the vicinity, uh or kind of in
26:20
Speaker 1: the vicinity. But it's good to see that, you know.
26:23
Speaker 1: It's sort of a carryover from that old time to
26:27
Speaker 1: kept that tradition going. And part of their their mission,
26:31
Speaker 1: part of their duty is to promote that. Part of
26:36
Speaker 1: the early history of the army.
26:39
Speaker 2: Now before we go into July fourth, because I want
26:41
Speaker 2: to air that part on Friday. By the way, our
26:43
Speaker 2: our on July fourth, I know, you know there's a
26:47
Speaker 2: there's always a parade. I guess in Philly on July second.
26:49
Speaker 2: Is that is that accurate? And where in Philly I
26:56
Speaker 2: believe they still do a parade for July second. I
26:58
Speaker 2: believe they did prade it.
27:00
Speaker 1: Yeah, I you know, it's funny. All the times I've
27:03
Speaker 1: been down there, I should have remembered that. I know.
27:06
Speaker 1: I think it's I think it's accurate. I mean, you know,
27:09
Speaker 1: it's funny. One of the questions I've been asked recently was, well,
27:12
Speaker 1: when did this? It may have been you and I talking,
27:16
Speaker 1: you know, when did this? You know, July fourth thing
27:19
Speaker 1: really take hold. The first parade that still in continuous
27:24
Speaker 1: ues today is in Rhode Island, Bristol. They started in
27:28
Speaker 1: seventeen eighty five, So July fourth wasn't anything that came
27:32
Speaker 1: about later on. The controversy so called to the degree
27:36
Speaker 1: it was, and it wasn't much of one then as
27:38
Speaker 1: it is become later with some people, you know, was
27:43
Speaker 1: later on.
27:45
Speaker 2: That later on would indeed be July fourth, seventeen seventy six,
27:50
Speaker 2: and when we return on Friday, we'll continue with Richard
27:54
Speaker 2: Howell to talk about what the significance of July the
27:58
Speaker 2: fourth and pen Say means and how we can keep
28:02
Speaker 2: the country going two hundred and forty nine years later