Latest / Best of Business / Max Whitehead: Be careful when placing a complaint with HR

Transcript

Max Whitehead: Be careful when placing a complaint with HR · Best of Business

0:09
Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News Talks it be
0:12
Speaker 1: follow This and a wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.
0:18
Speaker 2: In the glass.
0:26
Speaker 3: Right you Sam.
0:31
Speaker 1: Of his.
0:35
Speaker 3: Sam bro Wow, Western Sap, Super Classman, Even sel Man
0:59
Speaker 3: on Man a Complicate.
1:11
Speaker 2: Oh so I forgot to come in, come in. I
1:13
Speaker 2: was welcome back. I was enjoying and just enjoying a
1:18
Speaker 2: little listening to a little bit of Jimmy Barnes the
1:20
Speaker 2: working class Man, not as much as me. Yes, no,
1:23
Speaker 2: you don't talk yet. Have an induced hush hush, hush,
1:25
Speaker 2: hush hush, even though people know who it is. But
1:28
Speaker 2: just let me, let me go through the motions. Okay, Max, right,
1:31
Speaker 2: welcome back to Smart Money. And of course that song
1:34
Speaker 2: is the theme for our guest. He is an employment
1:36
Speaker 2: relations expert. And by the way we're going to kick
1:40
Speaker 2: things off, I'm going to have a chat with Max
1:41
Speaker 2: around just employment disputes. And it's a little bit on
1:45
Speaker 2: the back of NOL and Tarus dispute with you know,
1:50
Speaker 2: with Netball New Zealand and all that sort of thing.
1:51
Speaker 2: Because I'll be honest with you, my pet, Peeve, about
1:54
Speaker 2: this has been the breathless reporting of one side of
1:57
Speaker 2: the story and everyone's going, why don't we hear anything
1:59
Speaker 2: from Netball New Zealand. You know that handling this very
2:02
Speaker 2: this terribly. But the fact is is that it's it's
2:05
Speaker 2: a legal dispute, which where things have to remain confidential,
2:09
Speaker 2: especially when that comes to HR. So on the back
2:11
Speaker 2: of that, we're also going to talk about making an
2:14
Speaker 2: HR complaint and being confident that you can do it
2:18
Speaker 2: safely within the workplace, because that's another thing people might think, Oh,
2:21
Speaker 2: the HR, they've probably got a hot line to the
2:23
Speaker 2: CEO and everyone. No, no, I'm the stirer. So anyway,
2:27
Speaker 2: we're gonna have a chat with Max about that in
2:29
Speaker 2: just a moment, but also taking your calls on any
2:32
Speaker 2: questions you might have about employment relations, whether you be
2:35
Speaker 2: an employer or an employee. But anyway, obviously I've mentioned
2:39
Speaker 2: Max a few times. It's Max Whitehead. Hello, Max, how
2:43
Speaker 2: are you?
2:43
Speaker 4: Can I speak now?
2:45
Speaker 2: Tyra? Can Max speak now?
2:47
Speaker 4: Where I don't want to burn out my contract?
2:49
Speaker 2: No, she's freaking out. I said, sorry, she thought there
2:54
Speaker 2: was something that wasn't going to air anyway.
2:56
Speaker 4: Hello, lovely to be here. Did you like my dancing before?
3:01
Speaker 2: I was actually just saying to Tyra. In fact, I
3:03
Speaker 2: was going to that. Often when we play guest's favorite songs,
3:08
Speaker 2: they do a little groove, and I thought, we do
3:09
Speaker 2: have cameras in the studio. We could lift the video
3:12
Speaker 2: of that and post that online in a nice little
3:15
Speaker 2: little combination of dance moods. But probably given that we
3:19
Speaker 2: haven't warned you about it, we won't do it.
3:22
Speaker 4: Actually, I wouldn't mind, wouldn't you know it's in the
3:25
Speaker 4: spirit of the show.
3:25
Speaker 2: Well, it's fun of the show, But those dance moods
3:28
Speaker 2: they need some work.
3:30
Speaker 4: Oh, for goodness sake, how offensive is that? No, just kidding, Hey, folks,
3:35
Speaker 4: if you only had seen it.
3:38
Speaker 2: Anyway, Hey, now, look there is something about that, isn't it.
3:44
Speaker 4: Charity is definitely the big deal, and.
3:46
Speaker 2: It just blew me away the number of times you'd
3:49
Speaker 2: hear people saying, oh, I need more New Zealand need
3:51
Speaker 2: to need to talk speak up. It's like they can't.
3:55
Speaker 2: And in fact, any employer, I mean, I don't know
3:57
Speaker 2: if Nolan was a contractor or an employee or whatever
4:00
Speaker 2: whatever it is.
4:01
Speaker 4: I understand she's a contractor and she in voices once
4:04
Speaker 4: a month high.
4:05
Speaker 5: Because the there's the need for a legal dispute to
4:10
Speaker 5: be resolved confidential, confidentially, And on the other side, there's
4:14
Speaker 5: this public interest in the sport and that just two
4:18
Speaker 5: completely different worlds, aren't they.
4:20
Speaker 4: They certainly are. And of course a higher profile you go,
4:23
Speaker 4: the more sensitive is and the more damage that can
4:26
Speaker 4: be done. So the court of public opinion really get
4:30
Speaker 4: it wrong so often, so often. I mean, we've seen
4:33
Speaker 4: it so much, even with the American celebrities who might
4:37
Speaker 4: get themselves into bit of trouble and everyone's calling, well,
4:41
Speaker 4: that's it jail for that person, and it really is
4:44
Speaker 4: wrong because they haven't even had a chance to pipe
4:46
Speaker 4: up and say their own side of the story.
4:48
Speaker 2: Because the other side of it is, you know, there
4:50
Speaker 2: were players that expressed whatever they expressed, We're not going
4:54
Speaker 2: to know necessarily, But if Netball had sort of given
4:58
Speaker 2: too much information, then how safe would anyone working in
5:02
Speaker 2: that organization feel about a grievance Because when it comes
5:06
Speaker 2: to an HR issue, if you've something you are you're
5:08
Speaker 2: concerned about, I would have thought that confidentiality unless you're
5:12
Speaker 2: you know, you want to go down with the ship
5:13
Speaker 2: and be a whistleblower in public flames, confidentiality is everything.
5:20
Speaker 4: Well, there's a thing called natural justice, which you're you know,
5:23
Speaker 4: you did your law degree, so you go back and
5:25
Speaker 4: you'll probably remember that. And natural justice is now getting
5:28
Speaker 4: more and more closely defined and getting closer to employment law.
5:32
Speaker 4: Now employment law in New Zealand. Here it's good faith
5:35
Speaker 4: is the key, and I think it's getting very very
5:38
Speaker 4: close to a natural justice would be actually for contractors
5:42
Speaker 4: as well, and that that factor alone says that any
5:46
Speaker 4: celebrity who's going through this sort of thing, the employer
5:49
Speaker 4: or the principle of view of the arrangement cannot release
5:53
Speaker 4: any facts of information. They have a right to confidentially
5:57
Speaker 4: that individual and the right to dignity and the right
6:00
Speaker 4: to be treated fairly.
6:03
Speaker 2: I guess the question would be, I mean, look, this
6:06
Speaker 2: is not a sports talk show, but it was such
6:07
Speaker 2: a public sort of dispute. Was there anything you thought
6:11
Speaker 2: that Netball and New Zealand could have done differently in
6:13
Speaker 2: terms of handling it. My criticism would have been they
6:17
Speaker 2: simply should have just said, look, we know that there's
6:19
Speaker 2: a public interest in this, but there is also a
6:23
Speaker 2: very intense private interest which we need to protect, being
6:25
Speaker 2: the parties. Absolutely, and so you may want this information,
6:30
Speaker 2: but we are not in a position to give it
6:32
Speaker 2: to you full stop.
6:34
Speaker 4: And quite often, unfortunately the media will not publish those
6:37
Speaker 4: because there's almost a criticism of them for asking an
6:40
Speaker 4: awkward question. And you're quite right, I think that's exactly
6:44
Speaker 4: the answer that should be given, you know, for goodness sake,
6:47
Speaker 4: give this process a reasonable period of time to sort
6:50
Speaker 4: itself out before you make any judgment on anybody.
6:53
Speaker 2: Actually, just for that from some perspective, and we're not
6:57
Speaker 2: necessarily talk about Noel and Taro as dispute with Netball
7:00
Speaker 2: and New Zealand, which seems to have well, I'm not
7:02
Speaker 2: sure if it's totally been resolved watch the space. But
7:06
Speaker 2: one of the questions was, oh, this has been dragged
7:08
Speaker 2: on for you know, so many months. How long in
7:12
Speaker 2: your experience, how long do employment proceedings often, you know,
7:19
Speaker 2: what's the range in terms of how long they'll stretch
7:21
Speaker 2: out to win it when it's something fairly fundamental affecting
7:25
Speaker 2: someone's continued continuing to stay in a particular role.
7:31
Speaker 4: I had a case. I took it to the Employment
7:33
Speaker 4: Mediation Service, couldn't resolve it, so we took it to
7:36
Speaker 4: the authority. Five years five years tim it's still it's
7:42
Speaker 4: still wasn't resolved, and you know what the issue was,
7:46
Speaker 4: They shouldn't been paid any wages. Now do you think that.
7:50
Speaker 2: Would be a open and shut one show.
7:52
Speaker 4: You would, and I would think that's pretty disgraceful. Well,
7:57
Speaker 4: I was very disappointed in the employment authority over that,
7:59
Speaker 4: and it's still not resolved.
8:01
Speaker 2: You probably can't talk about that. Of course, if it's
8:03
Speaker 2: not resolved.
8:04
Speaker 4: Too much, Well, it's not going any further.
8:07
Speaker 2: Hey, So in terms of the HR disputes, and I mean,
8:12
Speaker 2: what is what is a reasonable time frame for most
8:15
Speaker 2: cases to get resolved when there's a conflict forgetting the
8:19
Speaker 2: hran there, when there's a disploy dispute between an employer
8:23
Speaker 2: and employee over conduct or something serious which is threatening
8:29
Speaker 2: their continuation and a role, what is the general time frame?
8:33
Speaker 2: How does it all? How does the process play out?
8:36
Speaker 4: So the employer has an obligation if there is a
8:38
Speaker 4: complaint made, the employer has an obligation in law to
8:42
Speaker 4: actually act as as soon as soon as practical, So
8:45
Speaker 4: they've got to do an investigation. Then they have to
8:47
Speaker 4: come up with a conclusion. But if they procrastinate and
8:52
Speaker 4: take their time over this whole thing, it can cost
8:54
Speaker 4: them a penalty. So I mean, I like the I
8:57
Speaker 4: like the employment law for that, but the judiciary are
8:59
Speaker 4: completely different. If it goes to the judiciary, they can
9:02
Speaker 4: take years and years and years and do and do,
9:06
Speaker 4: and quite frankly, now it's getting even longer if you
9:10
Speaker 4: do take it to the judiciary to get things any
9:12
Speaker 4: sort it out. Even the mediation service in our fraternity
9:15
Speaker 4: employment law is getting eight to ten weeks before you
9:19
Speaker 4: can even get a hearing, and an urgent hearing you
9:22
Speaker 4: might get in four to five weeks. Urgent means somebody
9:25
Speaker 4: who's still in unemployment.
9:26
Speaker 2: So what I mean and what are the costs associated
9:29
Speaker 2: with it? Because I think people have for an assume
9:31
Speaker 2: I've got a problem as an employee, you need to
9:33
Speaker 2: go to some sort of court process or mediation or
9:36
Speaker 2: arbitration things. It's not necessarily a cheap process either as well.
9:41
Speaker 4: The mediation service is free, but there's a cost to
9:45
Speaker 4: emotional cost. And of course people's feelings are very very
9:48
Speaker 4: high in the beginning, and they just keep going on
9:50
Speaker 4: and on and can get worse and quite often but
9:53
Speaker 4: in some cases they just deplete. And that's sometimes I
9:57
Speaker 4: swear that judics replay that hoping that people will withdraw
10:00
Speaker 4: their thing because they can't be bothered any longer.
10:02
Speaker 2: So what is the process if you've got a dispute?
10:04
Speaker 2: So where does mediation? Where does mediation? I know we've
10:07
Speaker 2: talked about this before, but remind us orcus, we's got
10:09
Speaker 2: new people coming in and I forget as well. To
10:12
Speaker 2: be honest, No, no, I do, yes, But what is
10:15
Speaker 2: if you've got an employment dispute is what's the beginning
10:18
Speaker 2: of the process.
10:20
Speaker 4: First off, you need to lodge it with you. If
10:22
Speaker 4: you're an employee, you lodge the complaint with your employer,
10:26
Speaker 4: and that's the first requirement of a process. Then you
10:31
Speaker 4: might lodge a personal grievance with them if you're not
10:33
Speaker 4: getting it justified, getting it sorted out, And in that
10:38
Speaker 4: letter you can actually offer the employee, Look, I'm happy
10:40
Speaker 4: to take a compensation to resolve it or whatever you
10:43
Speaker 4: might want to do, but you should point out in
10:45
Speaker 4: that personal grievance CET what remedy you want and then
10:49
Speaker 4: also ask them would you prefer we could take this
10:52
Speaker 4: to mediation. Now that's the process that I would normally
10:56
Speaker 4: adopt and recommend that people do. Now, as I just said,
11:00
Speaker 4: mediation can take eight to ten weeks and you can
11:04
Speaker 4: get private mediation, which can happen quite quickly, but it's
11:06
Speaker 4: going to cost you minimum of two to three thousand
11:10
Speaker 4: dollars just to have a mediation.
11:12
Speaker 2: How much of a block is it? Do you find
11:14
Speaker 2: with people that you know you have to take a
11:18
Speaker 2: logic with your employer, And as soon as you do that,
11:21
Speaker 2: I mean, there'll be a lot of people who would
11:23
Speaker 2: be weighing up, do I really want to do this?
11:25
Speaker 2: Because all of a sudden you become that employer and
11:27
Speaker 2: you just assume, well, my progress through this company stops
11:32
Speaker 2: today exactly. I mean, that's the problem, isn't it.
11:35
Speaker 4: The bonus is not going to happen. My pay increase
11:38
Speaker 4: is not going to happen. I know that from the
11:40
Speaker 4: moment I lodge a complaint and I'm going to be
11:43
Speaker 4: number one target. If there's a restructure for a redundancy,
11:48
Speaker 4: that's immediately what goes to everyone's mind. So the job's
11:51
Speaker 4: nearly wound up before even start by raising a complaint.
11:55
Speaker 4: Now it shouldn't it shouldn't in law, the employe should
11:59
Speaker 4: not make a bias because a person has a right
12:02
Speaker 4: to lay a complaint and the legislation is designed to
12:05
Speaker 4: be able to try and take that through a but
12:09
Speaker 4: it does happen, of course, and it's subconscious sometimes.
12:12
Speaker 2: Do you ever know of anyone who's taken aggrievance who
12:15
Speaker 2: still manages to progress through a company, or is it
12:17
Speaker 2: do you generally have to write off your relationship with
12:20
Speaker 2: that company once you've become a litigant.
12:22
Speaker 4: Well that's a good question, but I think in my experience,
12:25
Speaker 4: very few, and there has been a few have risen
12:29
Speaker 4: afterwards because they've raised a legitimate issue and taken it
12:33
Speaker 4: to the employer in a very mature and professional manner,
12:37
Speaker 4: and with that they gained the respect of the employer
12:40
Speaker 4: and the employee goes, my goodness, we weren't aware of
12:42
Speaker 4: this was happening, so let's try and resolve it. So
12:44
Speaker 4: there are, but that's very few.
12:47
Speaker 2: Would depend on how big. It depends on how big
12:50
Speaker 2: or smaller company is. So if you've a small company,
12:53
Speaker 2: then you have a sort of personal relationship with the boss,
12:55
Speaker 2: could really put a dent on that. Whereas if it's
12:57
Speaker 2: a massive company where you've brought something to their attention
13:01
Speaker 2: and there's enough of a mood within the board who
13:03
Speaker 2: think actually this person's done us a favor. But I mean,
13:06
Speaker 2: you know that sounds are still pretty unlikely, doesn't it.
13:10
Speaker 4: I know, it can be quite legitimate because sometimes they've
13:13
Speaker 4: got a middle manager and the board of know that
13:16
Speaker 4: they're a bit problematic and a bit moody and perhaps unpredictable,
13:21
Speaker 4: and they're waiting for someone to make a complaint. Now
13:23
Speaker 4: that can happen, and the individual comes up and does
13:26
Speaker 4: it in a very professional and respectful manner, they could
13:31
Speaker 4: be quite quite pleased to have it.
13:33
Speaker 2: Okay, wex We love your calls on this as well.
13:36
Speaker 2: Taking a grievance against a company or not a company,
13:39
Speaker 2: an employer or whatever. And I mean, if you have
13:42
Speaker 2: done it, what was the price that you did pay
13:44
Speaker 2: for it? But on the other side of things, the
13:47
Speaker 2: HR when it comes to HR, which is a you know,
13:50
Speaker 2: that can be a grievance about someone else you having
13:53
Speaker 2: to work with or whatever, what's what is what are
13:57
Speaker 2: the legal requirements of that? Because companies, you know, will
14:00
Speaker 2: tell you that you go to HR and that should
14:02
Speaker 2: all be confidential. What are the rules around that? And
14:05
Speaker 2: how much of that relies on simply the company's practice?
14:08
Speaker 2: And because I know a lot of I've to people
14:10
Speaker 2: not in this company, but just generally that they are
14:13
Speaker 2: deeply suspicious of whether in fact something that once it's
14:17
Speaker 2: with HR, it's in the company's files somewhere, and it's
14:21
Speaker 2: going to be very difficult. Well, a lot of trust
14:25
Speaker 2: confidentiality with HR.
14:26
Speaker 4: Well, a lot of employees think that HR is there
14:30
Speaker 4: for their benefit, but they forget who actually is paying
14:34
Speaker 4: the wages of the of HR, and of course the
14:39
Speaker 4: employer is so actually what they are there is a gatekeeper,
14:43
Speaker 4: is somebody that's supposed to keep the filter all the
14:47
Speaker 4: issues so they resolved and the employer doesn't have to
14:49
Speaker 4: suffer any litigation or problems later on, or that individuals
14:54
Speaker 4: not a problem is anymore. So quite often HR can
14:58
Speaker 4: be part of the problem, and my experience of reason
15:01
Speaker 4: is getting more often, but it should be.
15:04
Speaker 2: I mean, what are the expectations of confidentiality and.
15:07
Speaker 4: That's that's should be taken. And if there's a breach
15:10
Speaker 4: of that, well, for goodness sake, come and get someone
15:12
Speaker 4: like me, because that in itself can actually be almost
15:16
Speaker 4: almost a constructive dismissal, but it almost can cause difficulties
15:21
Speaker 4: and a personal grievance can come from that.
15:23
Speaker 2: So who has to keep I mean, what is it
15:27
Speaker 2: defined within certain roles or is it defined about who
15:31
Speaker 2: can't find out about it? I would imagine the obvious
15:34
Speaker 2: would be there's someone who's harassing someone else in the workplace, Well,
15:39
Speaker 2: that person who's the accused harasser should not know who
15:43
Speaker 2: the accuser is necessarily. But then that's the whole issue
15:47
Speaker 2: of how do you confront your accuser?
15:49
Speaker 4: I E.
15:49
Speaker 2: I mean look at Andrew Bailey. God, he was sit
15:51
Speaker 2: stuck withn't he?
15:52
Speaker 4: Oh?
15:52
Speaker 2: He was?
15:53
Speaker 4: And well, yes, that's another count of words.
15:56
Speaker 3: It is.
15:56
Speaker 4: It is, and we should talk about that later on.
16:00
Speaker 4: But quite often individuals out there and be aware of
16:03
Speaker 4: this if you're raising a complaint, and quite often people say,
16:06
Speaker 4: oh I'd like to keep this confidential. HR. People should
16:09
Speaker 4: never ever accept a confidential chat. The reason being is
16:14
Speaker 4: because if there is a legitimate issue to be resolved,
16:17
Speaker 4: they're going to have to raise it and HR human
16:20
Speaker 4: resources with an individual to try and fix it. And
16:24
Speaker 4: that that individual who's been accused of something is allowed
16:28
Speaker 4: to know who their accuser is.
16:29
Speaker 2: Well, that's that that gets back to the noling taro thing.
16:32
Speaker 4: Yes, because oh I don't know whose circumstances but I
16:35
Speaker 4: mean they're all over the players.
16:37
Speaker 2: The players were given confidentiality because you know, obviously they've
16:42
Speaker 2: complained about the coach. It seems fairly obvious that the
16:45
Speaker 2: charts are being selected if you've annoyed the coach by
16:48
Speaker 2: complaining those days. So it is. It is difficult, doesn't it.
16:51
Speaker 4: It is very difficult, very very difficult. I've even heard
16:55
Speaker 4: over that that particular case. How are the other players
16:59
Speaker 4: than the staff people considering her coming back? I don't know,
17:02
Speaker 4: but no, we wouldn't get an answer. He wouldn't have
17:05
Speaker 4: an answer. So he's doing the right thing but not
17:07
Speaker 4: answering the question.
17:08
Speaker 2: But she can't respond to the criticism unless it's a
17:11
Speaker 2: generic criticism from particular players about something that everyone's experiencing
17:16
Speaker 2: and some have got a problem with it. I guess
17:18
Speaker 2: it's easier to keep that confidential because you can still
17:21
Speaker 2: present the facts. Well, I think it's difficult.
17:23
Speaker 4: I think the employer in that particular case, the individuals
17:28
Speaker 4: were wrong to actually promise they could have confidentiality, because
17:33
Speaker 4: that because the person who's been complained against has a
17:38
Speaker 4: right to know who the complainant is, and to deprive
17:42
Speaker 4: them of that, you're breaching the good faith obligations, and
17:45
Speaker 4: I think it's that natural justice as well.
17:48
Speaker 2: It's a no when scenario then, isn't it, Because you've
17:51
Speaker 2: got players who don't want to have a coach he's
17:53
Speaker 2: prejudiced against and we want to Then again, if they're
17:55
Speaker 2: pointing out facts that are ascertainable without reference to who
18:00
Speaker 2: the individuals are, that's different, hasn't it. If someone's got
18:03
Speaker 2: a certain method of I don't know, doing something which
18:07
Speaker 2: everyone is going through and there are few people have
18:10
Speaker 2: got a problem with it. I guess you don't need
18:12
Speaker 2: to know who's got a problem you, Yeah, the one.
18:16
Speaker 4: Yeah, if it's across the board, then maybe you don't
18:19
Speaker 4: need to know the individual. But I mean you're still
18:22
Speaker 4: entitled to know who the complainant is, and I think
18:25
Speaker 4: it's reasonable that they do know.
18:27
Speaker 2: I guess that if you went to for instance, getting
18:30
Speaker 2: away from the netball, if you went to HR and
18:32
Speaker 2: you said, I've got to complain against X, but I
18:35
Speaker 2: want it to be confidential, then at the very least
18:40
Speaker 2: at that stage you are confidential until work tell you.
18:44
Speaker 2: If you want us to proceed with this, you're going
18:47
Speaker 2: to have to we need to present the person needs
18:50
Speaker 2: to know what they.
18:50
Speaker 4: Are, and that's that's exactly the conversation should have.
18:54
Speaker 2: Otherwise, if they decide we're not going to take this
18:56
Speaker 2: any further unless you forgo confidentiality. So if they don't
19:02
Speaker 2: take any further, then that should all be confidential, but
19:04
Speaker 2: they can't take any steps.
19:05
Speaker 4: Well, it happens often, and that's exactly what happens to
19:08
Speaker 4: You've just put the scenario which happens in stage two.
19:12
Speaker 4: So stage one, the worker goes in and goes like,
19:15
Speaker 4: I've got a problem with Max and he's causing me difficulties,
19:18
Speaker 4: but I don't want I don't want you to I
19:21
Speaker 4: want to keep that confidential from Max. And then HR
19:24
Speaker 4: should the part two. HR should say we can't resolve
19:28
Speaker 4: any matters if we can't confront Max. And he has
19:30
Speaker 4: a right to know that you're complaining and it's from you.
19:34
Speaker 4: So I think it's really common and that does happen.
19:38
Speaker 4: That conversation does happen. So the worker should be told
19:41
Speaker 4: by HR, we have to use it. If you don't
19:44
Speaker 4: want to do you want confidentiality, we can't do anything
19:47
Speaker 4: for you. You're on your own.
19:49
Speaker 2: Tricky one, isn't it. We'd love your cause on this
19:51
Speaker 2: but also if you've got any questions for Max White,
19:54
Speaker 2: he's an employment relations expert, then give us a call.
19:57
Speaker 2: And I mean, if you want me to throw a
19:59
Speaker 2: theme to you as to what you might want to
20:02
Speaker 2: talk about. The broad question would be do you actually
20:05
Speaker 2: trust HR and the confidentiality process at your workplace? And
20:10
Speaker 2: I've got to say, I just hope I'm never in
20:12
Speaker 2: the ballpark of having to do it.
20:14
Speaker 4: The thing is tim that ninety seven percent of all
20:16
Speaker 4: employees work for an employer who's less than well, most
20:21
Speaker 4: most enterprises are smaller than twenty twenty employees, so they're
20:25
Speaker 4: all smaller businesses. In New Zealand, very little actually have
20:29
Speaker 4: like a huge HR department and a huge they just
20:31
Speaker 4: government departments and new and probably the organizations like this one.
20:36
Speaker 2: Remind me to ask you about bonuses as well, because
20:38
Speaker 2: you did mention about if it we're complaining, you might
20:39
Speaker 2: not get a bonus. But where there actually bonuses are
20:42
Speaker 2: for some things that you can objectively argue for. If
20:45
Speaker 2: everyone else has got one, why not me. We might
20:47
Speaker 2: get into that, but right now it is twenty seven
20:51
Speaker 2: minutes past five, eight hundred eighty ten eighty is the
20:55
Speaker 2: number any questions you've got for Max. He's an employment
20:58
Speaker 2: relations expert. We'd love to hear from you. We'll be
21:01
Speaker 2: back in just a moment. Oh eight hundred eighty ten
21:03
Speaker 2: eighty text nine two nine two. This is news Talk,
21:05
Speaker 2: said B. Yes, News Talk, said B. Taking your calls.
21:07
Speaker 2: I eight hundred with Max Whitehead is an employment relations expert.
21:12
Speaker 2: By the way, if you do miss any of the
21:15
Speaker 2: any of the broadcasts and you think I want to
21:17
Speaker 2: go back and hear that, just go to iHeartRadio and
21:20
Speaker 2: look for the Weekend Collective and just click on that
21:23
Speaker 2: and awhere you go. I've actually did it. There's a
21:25
Speaker 2: new version of iHeart Radio. It's been updated where you
21:28
Speaker 2: can literally save the Weekend Collective as a pre set
21:31
Speaker 2: and you click on it and let's go. Do you
21:32
Speaker 2: want to listen to the panel? Do you want to
21:34
Speaker 2: listen to the health Hub? Do you want to listen
21:35
Speaker 2: to Max on Smart Money? And away you go. Okay,
21:39
Speaker 2: it's that easy, right, let's go to the call show
21:42
Speaker 2: we Max.
21:43
Speaker 4: Yep, bring it on. Steven Hi, Hey, Steve.
21:47
Speaker 6: Game X. We don't have to start a listening. I
21:50
Speaker 6: thought I was listening to John Hart. You sound very
21:53
Speaker 6: much like John Hart, who was with Fletchers for a
21:57
Speaker 6: long time.
21:57
Speaker 4: Oh gosh, I remember the name from way back, but
22:00
Speaker 4: I thought he was an all black captain coach coachy,
22:06
Speaker 4: same guy. Oh look, I can tell you a story
22:09
Speaker 4: about him, because way back in time he actually.
22:12
Speaker 6: My story a go go, fair enough, fair enough.
22:15
Speaker 4: That's why we had shut up, Stephen go. I've been told.
22:22
Speaker 6: Thanks man, Yeah, thanks for letting me talk. I'm in
22:26
Speaker 6: my sixties and started working the seventies, and redundancy wasn't
22:31
Speaker 6: even a word, I guess. Anyway, I worked for a
22:34
Speaker 6: pretty well known timber and hardware company for twenty years,
22:38
Speaker 6: worked my way up the ladder, and anyway, he got
22:42
Speaker 6: made redundant for being there for twenty years, and it
22:45
Speaker 6: was a it was a friendly redundance. There was a
22:48
Speaker 6: good payout. My was pissed off about. I got a
22:52
Speaker 6: letter to say that I could respond within so many
22:55
Speaker 6: days if I felt I was being poorly treated, which
22:58
Speaker 6: I did, but that meant nothing. So then I joined
23:02
Speaker 6: another company and started at a similar sort of position
23:07
Speaker 6: and worked there for seven years, and then got made
23:10
Speaker 6: redundant and again got this letter that said, you know this,
23:14
Speaker 6: if you have any problems with this, or if you'd
23:17
Speaker 6: like to give your thoughts, then do so, which of
23:21
Speaker 6: course I did. I still got made redundant. And my
23:24
Speaker 6: philosophy on being redundant at that point was whether there's
23:28
Speaker 6: another there's another job coming somewhere. Anyway, So I was
23:32
Speaker 6: near retirement and I started working for a I won't
23:36
Speaker 6: say the name of the company, but anyway, enjoyed it.
23:41
Speaker 6: And COVID came and we all got letters to say
23:45
Speaker 6: that we would be made redundant but if we if
23:49
Speaker 6: we wish to provide some input into why we shouldn't be,
23:53
Speaker 6: then we we could. And again I did. Now on
23:57
Speaker 6: those three occasions and I'm back working. I'm back doing
24:02
Speaker 6: a job I love. But anyway, on those three occasions,
24:05
Speaker 6: the letters meant nothing. It was like the management made
24:08
Speaker 6: up their mind. And when I talked to my ex
24:11
Speaker 6: friends at the last place I've made redundant from, there's
24:15
Speaker 6: a lot of redundancies going on, they get the same
24:17
Speaker 6: letter that says, if you wish to say something about this,
24:21
Speaker 6: but that input from the person being made redundan is
24:25
Speaker 6: just needless wasted time because they've made up their mind.
24:32
Speaker 6: That's what I wanted to get across.
24:34
Speaker 4: Is there a question in there.
24:35
Speaker 6: So how can the employee fight back.
24:41
Speaker 2: Against the redundancy?
24:42
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, yeah, well that consultation process is there. Actually,
24:48
Speaker 4: I'll tell you what Steve to do, exactly thing I
24:51
Speaker 4: advise any person going through it. You ask the employer questions.
24:55
Speaker 4: You have a right to have all the information regarding
24:58
Speaker 4: the company. So if they're saying financially we can't afford
25:01
Speaker 4: you anymore, we're going through hard times, well, then asked
25:04
Speaker 4: to see all their financial records, asked to see all
25:08
Speaker 4: their overheads, asked to see a management still getting coro
25:13
Speaker 4: club access? Or how many company cars have we got
25:15
Speaker 4: right now? I mean, these awkward questions they have to answer.
25:19
Speaker 2: But what if they answer them and they are squandering
25:21
Speaker 2: a lot of money on management and stuff? What Stephen
25:24
Speaker 2: would say, Well, what can I do if it turns
25:26
Speaker 2: out they've got you know, the CEO is driving a
25:29
Speaker 2: Rolls Royce for a company car. What do I do then?
25:32
Speaker 4: So you can put up an argument and saying well
25:33
Speaker 4: they should actually go to a downgrade the motor vehicle.
25:36
Speaker 4: But ninety percent of the time, Tim the employer doesn't
25:40
Speaker 4: answer the questions, going well, what businesses that are yours?
25:43
Speaker 2: And what if they don't answer the question.
25:44
Speaker 4: Then you've got them. It's a gotcha moment. Good faith
25:47
Speaker 4: says that they've got to be responsive and they've got
25:50
Speaker 4: to get back to you and communicative and they can't
25:52
Speaker 4: lie to you. Okay, So it's a gotcha moment and
25:55
Speaker 4: twenty thousand dollars a maximum fine for employers who who
25:59
Speaker 4: don't respond to you reasonably have those sort of things.
26:03
Speaker 2: Did you do any of that, Stephen? Did you quest
26:05
Speaker 2: them on stuff?
26:05
Speaker 6: Or of course we lawyer each time wrote them letters.
26:12
Speaker 6: All came to nothing other than a lawyer's bill for
26:14
Speaker 6: me on each occasion.
26:18
Speaker 2: You mentioned before in the earlier part of describing you
26:21
Speaker 2: talked about a friendly redundancy. What was the context in
26:24
Speaker 2: which you said a friendly redundancy or did I must
26:26
Speaker 2: hear that?
26:28
Speaker 7: Okay?
26:28
Speaker 6: So after twenty years with it was Cardhold Harvey, I
26:32
Speaker 6: am and I was in a reasonably good position. It
26:37
Speaker 6: was one of their first redundancies. So when they started
26:40
Speaker 6: making international paper more Cardhold Harvey back in the day
26:44
Speaker 6: when they started making kiwis redundant, they were very careful
26:47
Speaker 6: and very hospitable about the amount of money that they
26:52
Speaker 6: the redundancy.
26:53
Speaker 2: So they got you a decent payout.
26:54
Speaker 4: That's what he got. Yeah.
26:56
Speaker 6: Yeah, they gave us a waking great.
26:58
Speaker 4: Payout, which is pretty rare.
26:59
Speaker 6: To Stephen, Well, you had your superation annuation on top
27:04
Speaker 6: of that, so it's very rare.
27:08
Speaker 4: Yeah.
27:08
Speaker 6: But look, I'm talking about those people that are going
27:11
Speaker 6: to be made redundant in the next two years one year,
27:14
Speaker 6: and they get this letter that says, you know, if
27:16
Speaker 6: you wish to discuss it with us, or if you
27:18
Speaker 6: wish to put your decide, tell us that we're doing
27:22
Speaker 6: something not right or this is not a good decision.
27:25
Speaker 6: But everybody I know has done that and never won once,
27:29
Speaker 6: never kept their job.
27:30
Speaker 4: Well, that's why I'm saying to you that if the
27:32
Speaker 4: employer fails to answer that question reasonably, then that's grounds
27:36
Speaker 4: for a breach of good faith. Twenty thousand dollars. Fine
27:41
Speaker 4: for that, we could take election.
27:43
Speaker 2: Good stuff. Hey, thanks for you, of course, Stephen. Actually
27:45
Speaker 2: it's good to hear that for people who think they've
27:48
Speaker 2: got no choice but to accept redundancy. I mean, there
27:51
Speaker 2: would be people who think, okay to ask all these
27:53
Speaker 2: questions when I'm still out of a job. But I
27:54
Speaker 2: guess if you become a squeakier wheel maybe doesn't mean
27:59
Speaker 2: you might get a better payout.
28:01
Speaker 4: Sometimes you could probably get a yeah, you might get
28:04
Speaker 4: a better pay it because there'll be settlement if they
28:06
Speaker 4: failed to answer the question, Max raises it, or somebody
28:09
Speaker 4: raises it with a personal grievance or even a breach
28:12
Speaker 4: of good faith allegation, then there's sometimes a payment saying well,
28:17
Speaker 4: we'll give you five thousand dollars if it goes away.
28:19
Speaker 2: Okay, right, hey, thanks for you, of course, Stephen really
28:21
Speaker 2: appreciate it. It is twenty two and a half minutes to
28:25
Speaker 2: six News Talks a b oh eight hundred eighty ten
28:28
Speaker 2: eighty Yes News Talks a B Tim Beverage Worth, Max
28:31
Speaker 2: white Hair taking your calls. Richard High Hi, Richard.
28:34
Speaker 7: Hi there, Max. I just wanted to ask you about
28:39
Speaker 7: those questions that you suggested people should ask employers, which
28:46
Speaker 7: I totally agree. Was how I'd have to say that
28:50
Speaker 7: neither of the questions as I heard them talked about
28:55
Speaker 7: from the employer to gentlemen or the answers that they
29:00
Speaker 7: gay meet that sort of criteria, which is you know
29:04
Speaker 7: that they said, you can tell us why you don't
29:07
Speaker 7: think you should be made with und it And he said, well,
29:11
Speaker 7: I don't know what he replied, but what you said
29:14
Speaker 7: they should ask, in fact, is show us the figures
29:17
Speaker 7: that indicate that you're in deep shit and redundancy is
29:21
Speaker 7: the only solution that you've got.
29:25
Speaker 4: Yeah, because.
29:27
Speaker 7: Well you know there's more. I mean, I wouldn't you know,
29:30
Speaker 7: it'd be difficult to answer question even if you were
29:34
Speaker 7: an employer that said, well, why am I being made?
29:37
Speaker 4: Well? See in the Unemployment Relations Act is a definition
29:41
Speaker 4: for good faith. So if the employer is making a
29:44
Speaker 4: it's in section four if you want to read it,
29:46
Speaker 4: because it's quite interesting. Here, the different employer is about
29:49
Speaker 4: to make a decision which may mean the end of
29:51
Speaker 4: your employment, then their obligation is to do two things. One,
29:55
Speaker 4: this provides of all the information but wait for this
29:58
Speaker 4: about the retention of your employment. And two is to
30:01
Speaker 4: provide you an opportunity to make a comment. Now, obviously
30:05
Speaker 4: two they are all agreeing to, but number one, they'd
30:08
Speaker 4: don't obviously give you enough information. Some of them do,
30:12
Speaker 4: but very very few. But they should be flooding you
30:15
Speaker 4: with information regarding that you know, what is it that
30:19
Speaker 4: possibly could retain your employment? And quite often the employees
30:23
Speaker 4: don't know what the employer knows, they don't know what
30:25
Speaker 4: they don't know, and so one question could lead to another.
30:31
Speaker 7: Yes, but I mean, I'm just thinking. I've always got
30:34
Speaker 7: the philosophy when you ask a question, you should already
30:37
Speaker 7: know what the answer is going to be. You'll have
30:39
Speaker 7: a pretty good idea as to what the answer is
30:41
Speaker 7: going to do. And you know, like when you ask
30:44
Speaker 7: a question, why am I being I don't think you
30:46
Speaker 7: should make me with it? That's not even.
30:48
Speaker 6: Really a question.
30:49
Speaker 4: No, it's not.
30:50
Speaker 7: No, they don't actually have to ask. What you need
30:53
Speaker 7: to do is show us the information that you know
30:56
Speaker 7: validates your decision to make staff with under other than
31:00
Speaker 7: take other actions.
31:01
Speaker 4: No, I totally agree with you, and you're dead right
31:03
Speaker 4: because those are the silly questions that some people do raise.
31:08
Speaker 4: Is I don't think I should be made And that's
31:10
Speaker 4: really just a comment rather than a question. So you
31:13
Speaker 4: make you make your point pretty good there, Richard. So
31:16
Speaker 4: I do agree with you. It's got to be a
31:18
Speaker 4: genuine question in regarding straight to going straight to the
31:21
Speaker 4: heart of the of the and relative to the redundancy.
31:27
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, okay, Hey, thanks Richard, thanks for call mate. Yeah, cheers,
31:33
Speaker 2: I've got a few texts here. One says this, one says, Tim,
31:36
Speaker 2: why is it that complaints and grievances always viewed by
31:41
Speaker 2: as negative by employers rather than a genuine process that
31:44
Speaker 2: could change and improve company processes. That's from Tony.
31:48
Speaker 4: I think that's there's some truth in that well.
31:51
Speaker 2: And I guess there'll be every many companies would say, no, no,
31:54
Speaker 2: we we love complaints because we love it as an
31:57
Speaker 2: opportunity to review what we're doing.
31:59
Speaker 4: But how often, how often, quite often the complaints are
32:03
Speaker 4: pretty negative against the management, so and that's why they
32:06
Speaker 4: are probably a bit averse to it, not openly but
32:09
Speaker 4: covertly behind the scenes.
32:12
Speaker 2: You mentioned that HR. It's worth remembering that HR are
32:16
Speaker 2: there to protect the employer. Really, they're sort of to
32:19
Speaker 2: filter complaints and sort of try and manage the process.
32:22
Speaker 2: Is that you saying that if you've got a serious issue,
32:27
Speaker 2: don't waste your time with HR.
32:31
Speaker 4: I think you can raise things of HR, but if
32:33
Speaker 4: you're not getting anywhere, you should go and get other
32:35
Speaker 4: help because HR are there to defuse any potential issues.
32:40
Speaker 4: And you imagine they're tactics and doing that. That's actually
32:44
Speaker 4: the smiling crocodile come and talk to us. Come and
32:48
Speaker 4: talk to us because we can help you. And sometimes
32:51
Speaker 4: they can, but quite often their advice is really, well,
32:55
Speaker 4: it's much loaded to ensure that the person who pays
32:57
Speaker 4: their pay is going to be better off and then
33:00
Speaker 4: the worker.
33:01
Speaker 2: I had never thought of it from such a cynical
33:03
Speaker 2: point of view, but now you pointed out, it feels like,
33:05
Speaker 2: of course that's the way it would roll, I guess.
33:08
Speaker 4: And it's common. And of course they always try to
33:12
Speaker 4: be very very friendly. They are smiling people and the
33:16
Speaker 4: very nice crocodiles. They're very nice to talk to. But
33:19
Speaker 4: and the reality is and they actually hold a lot
33:22
Speaker 4: of power. Someone goes straight to the top and have
33:25
Speaker 4: access to the CEO or the managing director, and so
33:29
Speaker 4: it don't underestimate the powerful people.
33:32
Speaker 2: Now this one ties into something I didn't actually mean
33:34
Speaker 2: to touch on, which a sick leave. But this is from Craig.
33:38
Speaker 2: It says, how can my work keep using my annual leave?
33:43
Speaker 2: As I had run out of sick leave. Have asked
33:45
Speaker 2: them not to, but they said I have to use
33:48
Speaker 2: up some of my annual leave. Was obviously he used
33:51
Speaker 2: up all a sick leave. I'm guessing he might be
33:54
Speaker 2: out of luck.
33:55
Speaker 4: No, no, no good on your tim though he's not
33:57
Speaker 4: out of luck, they cannot use his annual leave for
34:00
Speaker 4: when he is sick. He's got to get his permissioned
34:03
Speaker 4: before they can do that. So, in fact, I've had
34:06
Speaker 4: a question today.
34:08
Speaker 2: You have a chronic you know, I don't know you've
34:10
Speaker 2: done something you can't work and you've I don't know
34:13
Speaker 2: how many weeks sickly people have. But if you've used
34:15
Speaker 2: that up, then what's the employers out on that as well?
34:21
Speaker 2: Because you know an employer does want people to be
34:23
Speaker 2: at work.
34:24
Speaker 4: Yeah, good, good question. Because what happens like you get
34:26
Speaker 4: ten days sick day and perhaps you've broken a leg
34:29
Speaker 4: or something, and so you're going to be off for
34:30
Speaker 4: six weeks. As soon as your ten days runs out,
34:34
Speaker 4: the employer doesn't have to pay you anything. So it's
34:38
Speaker 4: about pay.
34:39
Speaker 2: So okay, So that Craig's option is that he keeps
34:43
Speaker 2: us annual leave intact, yes, but that he just doesn't
34:46
Speaker 2: get paid exactly. So as employer arguably is doing him
34:52
Speaker 2: a favor by saying you should probably use your aunual leave.
34:55
Speaker 4: For this, well, he should get agreement before he actually
34:57
Speaker 4: goes and helping this particularly, Craig said them there, didn't
34:59
Speaker 4: he that he asked them not to.
35:02
Speaker 2: Okay, so they asked him not to. But I'm not
35:04
Speaker 2: sure if Craig realizes that the alternative is not getting paid.
35:08
Speaker 4: It's a zero bank account now, so it's not.
35:11
Speaker 2: That friendly sort of option for him, is it. So
35:14
Speaker 2: you either use your annual leave get paid, or you
35:19
Speaker 2: keep staying out of work for sickness and no money.
35:23
Speaker 4: Yep, you got it. And injury injury is a different
35:27
Speaker 4: thing because acc keep paying you eighty percent.
35:30
Speaker 2: Yeah, and if you self employed eighty percent of eighty percent,
35:33
Speaker 2: which I always thought was a bit ropey. But anyway,
35:36
Speaker 2: m right, tell you what, we might just quickly take
35:39
Speaker 2: a break. We'll come back with a couple more. We've
35:41
Speaker 2: got a quite a few texts for Max here, as
35:43
Speaker 2: we often get because sometimes people don't really want to
35:45
Speaker 2: attach their voice to agrievance. They've got just in case
35:47
Speaker 2: their bosses listening and goes that sounds suspicious. We'll be
35:52
Speaker 2: back in just a moment. It's twelve minutes to six
35:53
Speaker 2: news Talk, said B News Talks head b Tim Beverage
35:56
Speaker 2: with Max Whitehead. Not long to go, So let's have
36:00
Speaker 2: a look at a few of the texts. My husband's
36:03
Speaker 2: been employed by a large New Zealm company for the
36:05
Speaker 2: last four years. During that entire time, he's been on
36:07
Speaker 2: a fixed term contray. He's just been informed his contract
36:10
Speaker 2: won't be renewed. The company has told me he can
36:12
Speaker 2: apply for the same role he's been doing, but the
36:15
Speaker 2: new position is thirty thousand less a year. They've said
36:18
Speaker 2: there's no guarantee he'll be successful. They further emphasize that
36:22
Speaker 2: if he does secure another job, Oh god, that's just
36:26
Speaker 2: disappeared on me. That's but yeah, before I find the
36:29
Speaker 2: end of that.
36:29
Speaker 4: One, that's an interesting scenario.
36:33
Speaker 2: Contractor. Yeah, they're getting rid of the role he's been
36:36
Speaker 2: doing as a contractor, so he's sort of.
36:38
Speaker 4: No, he's on fixed term, which keep continuing. And then
36:41
Speaker 4: they said, we're not going to renew that our.
36:43
Speaker 2: Fixed term contract. That's right. Yeah, is that a contractor?
36:46
Speaker 2: Is that?
36:46
Speaker 4: Well? I think contract machine means employment fixed term. That's
36:50
Speaker 4: a technical term dodgy.
36:51
Speaker 2: So they're going to offer the same job at thirty
36:54
Speaker 2: k less.
36:56
Speaker 4: That's that sounds dodgy to me too.
36:58
Speaker 2: Sounds like you need to get some advice, doesn't it.
37:00
Speaker 4: Yep, they should come to me because obviously if the
37:02
Speaker 4: job still exists, then for fixed terms to be terminated,
37:08
Speaker 4: they've got to have a genuine reason to terminate it.
37:10
Speaker 2: Well, it's not terminated, no, No, he's just been told
37:12
Speaker 2: his contract will not be renewed. So the contract is
37:15
Speaker 2: coming to an end. Yes, so we're not renewing it.
37:18
Speaker 2: We're establishing from now on it's going to be done.
37:21
Speaker 2: Is this role at thirty k less?
37:24
Speaker 4: Again, there's got to be a genuine reason why it
37:26
Speaker 4: came to an end. And if it's not specified at
37:28
Speaker 4: the beginning of the fixed term, they can't use that
37:31
Speaker 4: as the reason that it came to an end. No.
37:33
Speaker 2: But what I mean, if it's fixed term, he's done
37:35
Speaker 2: four years or four years is up? Can't they do
37:37
Speaker 2: what they want?
37:38
Speaker 4: No, they've got to have a good reason for it
37:39
Speaker 4: come to an end, and it's not coming to an end.
37:42
Speaker 2: So fixed to okay? So fixed is a fixed term contract?
37:45
Speaker 2: A fixed term contract then.
37:46
Speaker 4: Or what it is? But I mean, the only time
37:48
Speaker 4: that a person can end a contract for a fixed term,
37:51
Speaker 4: even though the date's been specified in the contract is
37:54
Speaker 4: if it's for a genuine reason which was specified at
37:57
Speaker 4: the outset.
37:58
Speaker 2: So it should specified. It comes to an end in
38:00
Speaker 2: four years. Isn't that a genuine reason, like four years
38:02
Speaker 2: is up.
38:03
Speaker 4: No, it's got to have a good reason. Got to
38:06
Speaker 4: have a good reason because it's got be specified in
38:09
Speaker 4: the written contract at the outset. So at the moment
38:12
Speaker 4: he signed up, the only reason you're going to end
38:14
Speaker 4: this contract is because of this and this and so
38:16
Speaker 4: with teachers, it's.
38:17
Speaker 2: The point in the fixed term contract.
38:19
Speaker 4: Well, if quite often it's funding, they won't get funding.
38:22
Speaker 4: It could come to an end. Like teachers and things
38:24
Speaker 4: like that, there are good reasons. It's a project. It
38:28
Speaker 4: usually comes to an end. And I tell you what it's.
38:31
Speaker 4: It's something that's broken quite often and too often.
38:35
Speaker 2: Gosh, that sounds that does sound quite That does sound
38:39
Speaker 2: quite complex. Because if I was an employer and I
38:41
Speaker 2: employed someone for a fixed term contract, I guess it
38:45
Speaker 2: would be I would be having a fixed term because
38:47
Speaker 2: the role had come to an end.
38:49
Speaker 4: So yeah, I mean, I think the caller should give
38:52
Speaker 4: me that textas should give me a call. I think
38:55
Speaker 4: there's some grounds behind that, and I'd like to know
38:57
Speaker 4: but a lot more information about it, and even see
38:59
Speaker 4: the contract.
39:00
Speaker 2: Hey, look, we've had a lot of text and I'm
39:01
Speaker 2: fraid we're not going to get to them all because
39:03
Speaker 2: by the way, there's beens. What's the story with the
39:05
Speaker 2: latest sick leave rules? Is there something around six year?
39:11
Speaker 4: Yeah, so everybody used to get ten days before and
39:14
Speaker 4: even if somebody only worked one day a month, get
39:17
Speaker 4: got ten days sick leave paid sick leave. Whereas now
39:21
Speaker 4: it's going to be pro rated. So what happens from
39:23
Speaker 4: day one? That's right, it's a proportion what is it,
39:28
Speaker 4: zero point threes So of every how they work they
39:33
Speaker 4: get Actually it's it's actually given to them a little
39:36
Speaker 4: bit more, a little bit more, a little bit more,
39:37
Speaker 4: until it builds up and they've got a fair period.
39:40
Speaker 2: It means that if you're a part time worker, you
39:42
Speaker 2: don't get the same entitlement for sick leave as a
39:44
Speaker 2: full time working base.
39:45
Speaker 4: So it's zero three zero yeah, point zero three eighty
39:50
Speaker 4: five every hour they work. That's accumulating for them to
39:53
Speaker 4: actually have for sick leave.
39:56
Speaker 2: Okay, right, well that was a quick explanation. There we go.
39:58
Speaker 4: Well you imagine that person worked once a month.
40:00
Speaker 2: I thought we just finished with a nice text. This
40:02
Speaker 2: is from Well it says I had a great experience
40:04
Speaker 2: with HR when I had issues with my boss. They
40:07
Speaker 2: looked after me during a nancy process, probably because I
40:10
Speaker 2: had a good case for a personal grievance which I
40:12
Speaker 2: didn't pursue. Is that a happy, happy story?
40:16
Speaker 4: Well, you know, maybe that's why they looked after you,
40:19
Speaker 4: because they needed to ensure the boss didn't come to grief. Okay.
40:24
Speaker 2: And if people want to get in touch with your Max,
40:26
Speaker 2: because god, it's times up.
40:28
Speaker 4: Really it's a big hint there. I think Tyra's trying
40:30
Speaker 4: to tell us I wind it up.
40:30
Speaker 2: There's always a subtle hint when the music starts playing.
40:33
Speaker 4: So give me a call on eight hundred and twenty
40:35
Speaker 4: four to seven ninety three ninety three and just call
40:38
Speaker 4: Max for the facts.
40:39
Speaker 2: Excellent. And if you if you want to catch up
40:42
Speaker 2: with any of these hours, do go to News Talk
40:44
Speaker 2: said B look for the podcast or iHeartRadio. They've redone
40:47
Speaker 2: the whole app where you can simply save the Weekend Collective.
40:50
Speaker 2: Go to the Weekend Collective, save it as a preset
40:53
Speaker 2: and just now click on that and it'll say here
40:54
Speaker 2: are all the different hours, and away you go. You're sorted.
40:58
Speaker 2: Thanks to my producer, Tyre Reward, and we look forward
41:01
Speaker 2: to your company again. Same time next weekend Sunday at
41:04
Speaker 2: six is next. We'll just leave it with a little
41:06
Speaker 2: bit of it.
41:07
Speaker 1: Stay for more from News Talks at b Listen live
41:39
Speaker 1: on air or online, and keep our shows with you
41:41
Speaker 1: wherever you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio