Latest / Miss Understood with Rachel Uchitel / The Story Behind "The Dynasty" With Author Jeff Benedict

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The Story Behind "The Dynasty" With Author Jeff Benedict · Miss Understood with Rachel Uchitel

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  Speaker 1: real conversations in a new language today. Welcome to Misunderstood.
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: I'm Rachel Uchitel. So who watched the Super Bowl last night?
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: Who didn't watch now that more people than ever are
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: tuning into football because of Taylor Swift and her boyfriend's
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: love story? Intrigue around the attendance of Taylor, the second
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: ever end of season game to make it to overtime,
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: and rumors of a halftime appearance by surprise guests were
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  Speaker 1: expected to have driven viewership of the Kansas City Chiefs'
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  Speaker 1: second consecutive Super Bowl victory in into record-breaking territory, potentially
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  Speaker 1: overtaking last year's big game as the most watched Super
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  Speaker 1: Bowl ever and creeping toward the broadcast viewership record set
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  Speaker 1: by the 1969 moon landing. The Kansas City Chiefs know
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  Speaker 1: all too well they have a lot more winning to
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: do if they are to match the success of the
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  Speaker 1: Tom Brady era New England Patriots, but last night's triumph
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  Speaker 1: has cemented them as the NFL's newest dynasty nonetheless. Today
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: we have an incredible interview for you guys. You do
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  Speaker 1: not need to be a football fan to like this.
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  Speaker 1: So let me just make that caveat. But if you
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: are one, great. I got to chat with my friend,
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  Speaker 1: Jeff Benedict, who just happens to be a New York
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  Speaker 1: Times bestselling author of 17 books and an Emmy winning producer.
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  Speaker 1: Among some of these, his most recent are the three
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  Speaker 1: masterful sports biographies, Tiger Woods, LeBron and the Dynasty. One
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  Speaker 1: thing I love about Jeff's writing is that he has
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  Speaker 1: such a way of storytelling that completely grabs the reader
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  Speaker 1: and you become instantly invested. And I have to be honest,
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  Speaker 1: I'm not a huge sports fan, but the books kind
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  Speaker 1: of make you one. I think it's because at the heart,
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  Speaker 1: they're not really sports stories. They're about the underdog, family, dreams,
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  Speaker 1: team camaraderie, friendship. So his book, The Dynasty, has now
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  Speaker 1: been turned into a docuseries for Apple Plus and will
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  Speaker 1: premiere this Friday, February 16th. He spent five years inside
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  Speaker 1: the New England Patriots organization where he was given access
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  Speaker 1: like never before. He navigates the team's remarkable journey and
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  Speaker 1: boldly confronts the controversies that have marred its reputation, not
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  Speaker 1: shying away from topics such as spy gate and deflate gate.
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  Speaker 1: We get to know the players, coaches, and the owner
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  Speaker 1: in a whole new light. Brian Grazer and Ron Howard
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  Speaker 1: executive produced the 10-part series alongside Jeff Benedict, and we
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  Speaker 1: should expect a never-before-seen look into the inner workings of
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  Speaker 1: a champion football team, one that is supported by the
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  Speaker 1: chemistry of a quarterback, Tom Brady, and head coach, Bill Belichick,
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  Speaker 1: and sustained by owner, Robert Kraft. You do not need
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  Speaker 1: to be a football fan, as I said, to appreciate
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  Speaker 1: this amazing conversation. So please take a listen to my friend,
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  Speaker 1: Jeff Benedict. Jeff, my old friend, I'm so happy to
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  Speaker 1: have you here today. Thank you for joining me.
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: I'm thrilled to be here. Been looking forward to this
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  Speaker 2: for a while. Good.
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  Speaker 1: So I wanted everyone to know full disclosure. This is
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: not the first time we are meeting. I want to
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  Speaker 1: hear your record recollection of when my name came across your,
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  Speaker 1: your desk.
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  Speaker 2: Uh, my recollection of that is pretty crystal clear. Uh,
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  Speaker 2: so I was working on the tiger woods biography and, uh,
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: I wrote that book with a colleague, Armin Katayan. I
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  Speaker 2: usually write alone, but I wrote that one with my teammate.
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  Speaker 2: And we divided up the labor, so to speak. And
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  Speaker 2: he was calling all the people like golfers and those
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: people in Tiger's world. I was assigned all of the
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  Speaker 2: women in Tiger's world. So that that starts with like
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  Speaker 2: friends who befriended him when he was young, his teachers,
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  Speaker 2: you know, all that. So you were on that list, obviously.
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  Speaker 2: And I reached out to you multiple times while writing,
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  Speaker 2: trying to write the documentary. You and I never communicated,
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  Speaker 2: at least not verbally during that whole process. First time
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: we ever spoke. was a week before the book was published,
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  Speaker 2: you were on an island somewhere and you read the
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: New York Times review and you texted me because you
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  Speaker 2: had my number and asked if we could speak. We
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  Speaker 2: got on the phone and a couple weeks later, you
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  Speaker 2: and I met at the W Hotel in Times Square.
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  Speaker 2: I brought my daughter and we watched 60 Minutes together.
• 5:24
  Speaker 2: in a room. That was my introduction to you. And
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  Speaker 2: it's been great ever since. Right.
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  Speaker 1: That's exactly how I remember it. I remember I had
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  Speaker 1: my store at the time and I would get these
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  Speaker 1: messages from you and your co-author trying to get me
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  Speaker 1: on the phone. And I was like, no, I don't
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  Speaker 1: want to be a part of this. And then when
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  Speaker 1: I finally read the New York Times review and I
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  Speaker 1: saw how good, you know, the rave reviews you were getting.
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  Speaker 1: And then also when I started to read the book,
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  Speaker 1: I was shocked at how you got details so correct.
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  Speaker 1: And I had never spoken to you. And so I
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  Speaker 1: was like, well, this is the real deal. I want
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  Speaker 1: to know this guy. So it's always, it's been my
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  Speaker 1: honor and my pleasure to, to have gotten to know
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: you after all these years.
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  Speaker 3: So.
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  Speaker 2: Likewise, by the way, I have to say, I feel
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  Speaker 2: the same way. And my daughter, Maggie May, who came
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  Speaker 2: with me to meet you that first time in the
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  Speaker 2: hotel room, thinks very fondly of you because it stretches
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  Speaker 2: back to how this whole relationship started. So I got
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  Speaker 2: to meet your daughter. You got to meet mine. Right.
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  Speaker 1: That's right. And also, you know, you were... I guess, helpful,
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  Speaker 1: or I was helpful to you guys in getting that
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  Speaker 1: docu-series done, and you asked me to be a part
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  Speaker 1: of it. I didn't want to do it. I did
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  Speaker 1: it because of the trust that I had with you.
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  Speaker 1: I got myself in a lot of trouble after, but
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  Speaker 1: it didn't even mean anything to me that there was
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  Speaker 1: such controversy after. From the other side, I was... happy
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  Speaker 1: to do it. I wanted to do it because I
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: knew if the story was going to be told, I
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  Speaker 1: wanted to tell it in my own words. And also
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: I was willing to tell things that you had already
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  Speaker 1: written about that I was not the source of. And
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: I was just kind of reiterating those things that you
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  Speaker 1: had written about. So it was such an interesting process
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  Speaker 1: being part of something that was so big and was
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  Speaker 1: so well received by the public. What were your thoughts
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  Speaker 1: of the docuseries that came out of Tiger?
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  Speaker 2: It's a great opportunity, but it's a rare opportunity when
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  Speaker 2: you get to turn one of your books into a
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  Speaker 2: documentary or a scripted series or a movie or a
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  Speaker 2: Broadway play. Those are all pie-in-the-sky dream ideas that don't
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: usually come to fruition for any authors. So for me,
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: it was just a wonderful opportunity to have Tiger turned
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  Speaker 2: into a two-part documentary series for HBO. And really, you know,
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  Speaker 2: it reaches a different audience because people who watch HBO,
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  Speaker 2: you can get the story in front of a lot
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  Speaker 2: more people that may have read the book. And then
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: some people go and buy the book because they saw
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  Speaker 2: the series. And most people who read the book probably
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  Speaker 2: watched the series. But the other way around works great
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  Speaker 2: for the author. Right, right.
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  Speaker 1: So the reason why we're having you here is because
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  Speaker 1: The Dynasty is coming out this week on Apple. And
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  Speaker 1: so I wanted to talk to you all about that.
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  Speaker 1: But before we get into that, I wanted to kind
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: of find out from you how you got into writing.
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  Speaker 1: Because from what I know, that's not how your life
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  Speaker 1: started out. You didn't want to be some big writer, correct?
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  Speaker 2: Well, I don't know if I'm still I'm still not
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  Speaker 2: a big writer, but I'm I'm happy to be a writer.
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  Speaker 2: It definitely didn't start out that way. I grew up
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  Speaker 2: in a blue collar family. None of my you know,
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  Speaker 2: my parents and all my the men in my life
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  Speaker 2: and uncles, cousins, grandfathers, they were all blue collar. You know,
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  Speaker 2: they all worked with their hands. Most of them were
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  Speaker 2: in construction. And I could have done that. In fact,
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  Speaker 2: I did that when I was in college. I put
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: myself through college working construction partly. But I went to
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: law school to become a lawyer, and I'd hoped to
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  Speaker 2: use my brain a little bit for my job more
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: than my hands. But while I was in law school,
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: I started writing about violence against women. I didn't do
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  Speaker 2: that because I wanted to be a writer. I did
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  Speaker 2: it because I was trying to be a good advocate.
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  Speaker 2: And I was really interested in violence against women, both
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: sexual abuse and domestic violence. And in fact, in law school,
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: I worked in the prosecutor's office in Boston, and we
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: prosecuted those kinds of crimes. And I had an opportunity
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: to get some of my stuff published. Some of it
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  Speaker 2: got published in The New York Times as essays, op-eds.
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  Speaker 2: I started getting more attention. And at one point, the
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: chief prosecutor who I worked for I said to him,
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: I said, you know, I have a chance to sign
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  Speaker 2: my commercial publishing contract to write a book. And, uh,
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  Speaker 2: he said to me, I said, what would you do?
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  Speaker 2: Because I had always told him I wanted his job someday.
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: And he said, are you kidding me? Like he said,
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: I do 12 trials a year, 12, which means I
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: speak to 12 people per trial. It's 144 people a year.
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: He said in one night you can go on a
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: national network news program and you can talk to a
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  Speaker 2: few million people about violence against women. Who do you
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: think reaches more people? What do you think has more impact?
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  Speaker 2: He's like, you shouldn't even think about this. If I
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: had the chance to do what you have the chance
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  Speaker 2: to do, I'd do it and I'd never look back.
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: And I made a major pivot point in law school.
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: I stayed in law school, by the way, Rachel, I
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: got my degree. And I even got my law license.
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: But I knew I was going to be a writer.
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: And I've been a professional writer since my second year
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: of law school.
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  Speaker 1: so Jeff, how do you pick your books and your topics?
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: Well, that's changed over the years. If you ask me
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: that question, like, how do I do it right now?
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: That's a very different answer than I would have given
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: you when I started. So now, nowadays, I have a
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: different whole set of factors that come into play for
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: picking topics. And after.
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: The car is beautiful. Where did you end up going
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: for it?
• 15:08
  Speaker 4: This exclusive place that Dad has connections with. They have
• 15:11
  Speaker 4: more cars for more dealerships than like anywhere else.
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: You have to put me in touch. What's it called?
• 15:16
  Speaker 5: It's Dune ADL.
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: Where?
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: Dune ADL.
• 15:21
  Speaker 5: There's an accent on the E.
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: Do you mean.
• 15:24
  Speaker 5: Yes, I got it on Dune Deal Cars.
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: Lyft? Lyft?
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: Please you're going past Kimmage oh.
• 15:29
  Speaker 4: Kimmage no done deal cars you couldn't possibly go anywhere.
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: Else having done a series of biographies starting with Steve
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: Young uh the San Francisco 49ers Hall of Fame quarterback
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: and then Tiger and then Dynasty and then LeBron once
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: I got into that cycle which is primarily biographies of
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: extremely successful world-renowned athletes uh That's basically the credential now
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: is I try to pick people, people or organizations that
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: are considered the best in the world at what they do.
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: And so that doesn't necessarily mean it has to just
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: be athletes. I mean, most of the books I've written
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: are not about sports figures, but the past few have been.
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: But that's the standard, meaning the threshold is, in other words,
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: there's a lot of athletes that are really, really good,
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: really good. They're great. but they're not the greatest. And
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: so I would probably not do those books. And so
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: there's a limited pool of athletes that I could actually
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: write about. Once you get in the category of Tom Brady,
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: LeBron James and Tiger Woods, there's just not many people
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: in that pool, but that's, that's the threshold. And I
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: think for, for Simon and Schuster, you know, that's what
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: they want from me as well. So it has to
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: be something that, first of all, I'm, Passionate enough about
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: to spend two or three years of my life doing
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: and also that there's a big enough commercial market, meaning
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: there's interest in these this individual preferentially around the globe,
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: not just in the United States. And all three of
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: these those names I just mentioned fit that.
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: I'm just curious, now that you've said that, are you
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: in your relationship with Simon & Schuster now that you
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: can call them and say, here's who I really like,
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: or they come to you and say, we really want
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: to do a book on this because this will really succeed?
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: Are you guys doing that kind of collaboration at this point?
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely. And so I don't really do book proposals anymore.
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's the thing. If you just said in
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: the beginning, you know, obviously I had to do a
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: book proposal for everything in the beginning.
• 17:38
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: I don't do book proposals anymore. We have conversations. Here's
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: what I'd like to do next. And sometimes they bring
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: the idea to me. In fact, that is what happened
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: with LeBron. LeBron was not my idea, but I literally
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: didn't think about it. I was sitting in my publisher's
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: office with my editor and my agent, and I had
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: pitched the Dynasty as my next project, which they were
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: willing to do. but they wanted me to get access
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: to the organization first. And I knew that was going
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: to take, that was going to take some time to
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: build a relationship of trust. And I, and they said, well,
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: that's okay. Take as long as you need. But in
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: the meantime, you could just work on a different book.
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: And I said, well, I don't have a different book.
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: Like that is my, my great idea. And so I said,
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: maybe you could come up with an idea. And so
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: a few weeks later we met again and, and they
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: said the same four people I was sitting in that
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: office and they the publisher said, how about LeBron? And
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: I just, I literally didn't even, normally if someone brings
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: me an idea, I go through a process. I talk
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: to my agent about it. I talk to my wife.
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: I look at the numbers, all these different things. In
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: the moment, without even hesitating, I said, yeah, like, are
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: you kidding me? And I've said this, Rachel, to a
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: few people, particularly some friends. If I actually had thought
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: about it, I might have been too intimidated to do it. Yeah.
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: And so it was one of those moments of blink,
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: you know, just your first instinct is yes. Trust the instinct.
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: Do it. And don't look back. I mean, I'm glad
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: I didn't think about it.
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: So on the Tiger book, you did not have Tiger's approval.
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: You did not have access to him, but you had
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: access and you ended up gaining access to all the
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: people around him that made the difference enough that you
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: got all the stories that created this amazing book. So
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: in the situation of LeBron, did you know you were
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: going to get access?
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: How did that all work? So in biographies, unless it's
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: like in the Steve Young case, it's i think it's
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: relevant to bring that up steve hired me like he
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: commissioned me he paid me to be his writer to
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: write his biography um that's an autobiography and he controls
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: it he owns it like he literally owns the copyright
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: and i wrote that in his voice first person As
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: a ghostwriter, basically. Not even. He put my name on
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: the cover. Oh, he did? Yeah. He told the world
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: who his writer was. And that's the kind of guy
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: Steve is. That's what he did. And it's great. So
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: I wasn't a ghostwriter. But I did the same thing
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: that a ghostwriter does, which is write in the subject's
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: voice and from their perspective. It's their vision of the world.
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: A traditional biography, you don't do that. Like Tiger doesn't
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: commission me, doesn't pay me. He doesn't have editorial control.
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: Neither did LeBron. And those biographies, in my opinion, are really,
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: really good because they're they are subjective. And I'm not
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: saying Steve's wasn't subjective. Obviously, if Tiger or LeBron ever
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: decides to do a full-blown autobiography, where they're really, literally
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: willing to go where Andre Agassi went when he wrote Open,
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: those would be incredible books. But most people are not
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: willing to do what Steve Young and Andre Agassi did.
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: When Steve wanted to hire me, I told him, I said,
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: I'd love to do this, but we need to do
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: it like Agassi did with J.R. Moringer. Like, you got
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: to go the distance. You got to You got to
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: open your soul. And if you're willing to do that,
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: talk about anything and be honest about it, be unafraid,
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: then this is going to be a fantastic book. Most celebrities,
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: star athletes, musicians, actors, they have a really hard time
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: doing that. And so that's why the objective biography told
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: from the way we did Tiger and LeBron is usually better.
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: And especially like I would bring up the LeBron one
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: because some people were critical of of that book because
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: it's inspiring. And they're like, well, where's all the dirt?
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, why do you have to have that
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: to have a good book? Like, this is a great
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: story about an American. It's a great American story. This
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: is something that could only happen in America. And I
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: found it inspiring. And I wrote what I saw.
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: So.
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: You know, well, then that brings me to my next question. Like,
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: do you go in thinking that it's going to be
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: about one thing? And then as you gain access or
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: you're hearing stories, the book becomes about something else. Like
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: with the dynasty, I know this was your plan, but
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: you know, you would have maybe thought this was going
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: to be about Tom Brady. And then all of a
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: sudden you see, this is a love story. This is
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: about an underdog. This is whatever it becomes for you
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: in all these situations.
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: So I, I never go in with, um, With preconceptions
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: about what the story is going to be. I mean, obviously,
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: if you if your publisher says, how about LeBron? What
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: he's asking you is, what do you think about writing,
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: you know, the definitive biography of LeBron James? Well, you
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: know what that is that.
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: OK.
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: But what you're going to find in the course of
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: researching that life, that that's a mystery to me because
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: I don't know. And I didn't know about the Patriots.
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: I'd never covered that team. I'd never been around them.
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: I didn't know Tom. I didn't know Bill Belichick. I
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: didn't know Robert Kraft. I didn't know any of those guys.
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: So to go into it saying, oh, I know what
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: the story is. No opposite. I go in like a.
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: A kid in a candy store who wants to taste
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: everything that's on the shelf, all the different colors. I
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: want to open every jar, pull that out, taste that,
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: go to the next one. And at the end, figure
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: out which are the ones that the audience, the reader,
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: really needs to taste themselves. And you know going in
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: that with lives like Tiger's, LeBron's, the Belichick, Brady Crafts,
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: They're public figures, like the world knows about them. That's
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: why you can get those big book contracts. Your job
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: as a biographer, though, is to tell the world all
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: the things they don't know. Like it's the stuff you
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: don't see when you're watching the Masters on CBS or
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: watching the NBA finals on ABC or watching Tom Brady
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: give a press conference after a football game. None of
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: those things are revelatory, right? Because everybody got to see them.
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: You got to go find the things, and you know,
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: because you've read these books, they have to be laced
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: with things that you didn't know. Right.
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: We're going to get to Dynasty in one second, but
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: out of the Tiger and the LeBron, I'm curious, was
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: there one story that has always stuck with you that
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: you came across that you were like, wow, this is
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: so interesting or special or terrible?
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, with both of those gentlemen, I would say
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: there were many of those with both. And since LeBron
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: is more current, I'll tell you one from then. Like
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: when you talk about not knowing things when you start,
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: I had no idea that LeBron kept a journal when
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: he was a very young teenager for one year, basically,
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: of high school. And I was fascinated when I found
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: out that there was. And those those journal entries were
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: published in a in a magazine back in the day.
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: And I got access to all those. I read them all.
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: And when I built some timelines of LeBron's life, I
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: noticed really something really interesting, which was these journal entries
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: intersected with the first time he met Michael Jordan. And
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: Michael Jordan was his idol growing up. And he was
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: being compared to Michael Jordan when he was in high school.
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: Like he would be the next Michael Jordan, which is
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: a terrible burden. I mean, Tiger Woods had a similar burden, right?
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: When Sports Illustrated put him on the cover and his
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: dad compared him to like, you know, all these great
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: political figures. But in LeBron's case, he actually met his
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: idol when he was in high school. One summer, he
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: went to Chicago, uh, for a basketball tournament. And, um,
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: In between games, he got invited to go visit this
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: gym by a guy who worked out with Michael. He
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: took LeBron to Michael's private gym. And to make a
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: long story short, after showing him the gym, the gym
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: was empty. It was a quiet day. Michael wasn't there.
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: Michael's retired at this point. And LeBron sees the gym.
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: And after showing him the gym, the guy invited LeBron
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: to come back later that summer and stay with him
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: for a week or two and actually work out at
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: the gym. And LeBron did that. And when he went
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: back that summer to work out, a lot of NBA players,
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: star players, big players who were from Chicago, they would
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: use Michael's gym in the offseason to train and work
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: out in private. And LeBron got to go there. And
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: he saw all these pros running and training and lifting weights.
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: And he saw how they behaved as professional athletes. And
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: on the last day, they let LeBron get in a game.
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: Think about this. This kid's like he's a teenager and
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: he gets on the court with all these guys that
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: he's used to watching on TV. And the amazing thing
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: was he could actually run with them, meaning he could
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: keep up. He could compete. And if that wasn't stunning enough,
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: at the end of the day, when all those guys
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: got in their fancy cars and left and went wherever
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: they went. LeBron stayed behind to clean the gym with
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: the guy that had brought him there and they just
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: cleaned everything up and they were leaving, locking up, walked
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: outside and in drives Michael Jordan. LeBron's, he hadn't been
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: at the gym the whole week. LeBron, uh, knew who
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: it was and Michael got out of the car and
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: LeBron was really just kind of mesmerized. Like it, you know,
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: this would be like me meeting Paul McCartney and, uh,
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: Which I did, and I felt like I was levitating.
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: I mean, this is him meeting Michael, and Michael comes
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: up to him, and Michael knew who LeBron was. He
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: invited him back in the gym, and they spent, I
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: don't know, 15, 20 minutes talking in private. Michael didn't
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: give much advice, but he gave him his cell phone number.
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: Think about it. The next day... LeBron started high school
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: again his junior year. He shows up on the first
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: day of school, and he's got Michael Jordan's cell phone
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: in his pocket. And he doesn't brag about it. He
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: doesn't tell anybody about it. But he's got a direct
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: line to his idol. Just think about how rare that
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: is for any child, whether it's a girl who idolizes
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: Taylor Swift, a boy who idolizes Tom Brady. You have
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: your idol's phone number. And To me, there were so
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: many moments about LeBron's upbringing that were like that, that
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: were unknown, that say a lot about why he is
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: the way he is today.
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that. Did you ever find out, you know,
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: if LeBron read the book, what his thoughts were about it?
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: I did find some things out about that, which I'll
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: keep to myself because I can't say... They're private, but
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: I was told something very nice. He hasn't read the book.
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: At least he hadn't read it when I was told this,
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: which I would have been shocked if he had read it,
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: because I think that these gentlemen. People who have lives
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: that are as busy and eventful as they have. They
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: almost don't have time to read any books. And reading
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: a 550 page book is a commitment that most Americans
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: don't take the time to do.
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: Right um the car is beautiful where did you end
• 29:44
  Speaker 3: up going for it.
• 29:44
  Speaker 4: This exclusive place that dad has connections with they have
• 29:47
  Speaker 4: more cars for more dealerships than like anywhere else.
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: You have to put me in touch what's it called it's.
• 29:52
  Speaker 4: Dune adl where dune adl there's an accent on the e.
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: Do you mean.
• 30:00
  Speaker 5: Yes, I got it on Done Deal Cars.
• 30:02
  Speaker 3: Lift, please. You're going past Kimmage?
• 30:05
  Speaker 5: Oh, Kimmage.
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: No.
• 30:07
  Speaker 5: Done Deal Cars.
• 30:08
  Speaker 4: You couldn't possibly go anywhere else.
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: LeBron's one of the busiest people literally in the world.
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: He's not a president of a country, but he's... He's
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: one of the most visible people on Earth, and he's
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: got a packed life. And on top of that, he's
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: an actual committed wife, husband, I mean, and father. And
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: it's time consuming. So the last I was told he
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: hadn't read the book. Um, but I, like I said,
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: I would have been surprised if he had. Right.
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: Well, but he's not calling you and screaming at you
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: about how.
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: No. Yeah.
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: Right. Okay. That's what I was curious about. Um, something
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: that you said was interesting right there that, you know,
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: it's a commitment to read a 550 page book. Um,
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: And you would think your target audience are sports fans
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: who I don't know that they really read like that.
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: Do they?
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: They don't. They don't. Sports fans are the worst. It's
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: the worst audience in the world because they watch TV.
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: All they want to do is watch games. And look,
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: I watch games. I get it. But the fact of
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: the matter is that's there's a reason why. Very, very,
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: very few sports books make the New York Times bestseller list.
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: It's a rarity. It's extremely hard to do. So, yeah,
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: my audience, I'm targeting a different audience.
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: Right. But there's something about how you write your book,
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: and I will admit I'm not all the way through it,
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: but I have not... skipped ahead i have not put
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: it down i mean i've texted you and called i
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: told you this is an amazing book for not only
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: the sports like not only sports fan who may like
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: it right of course that's your obvious person who's going
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: to like to read about the patriots but for a
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: woman a woman who doesn't give a shit about football
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: and you know who didn't know anything about The Patriots.
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's an incredible book. If you like something
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: about an underdog, if you like a love story, if
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: you like, you know, I had no idea about these
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: people that were so hated or beloved. And I find
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: it fascinating and I really cannot put it down. So
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: it's I mean, that is why, obviously, I think these
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: kind of books do well because they're not really sports books.
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: No, and I love that you, you know, as a woman,
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: when you say, I don't really give a shit about football,
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: I'd love to hear that. Honestly, like, that's great, because
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: you're exactly the kind of person that I'm writing for.
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: I want women who don't give a shit about golf.
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: I mean, they don't know what a, I don't know
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: anything about golf myself. I've never picked up a golf
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: club in my lifetime. I've never played around a golf.
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: I don't know how. So obviously, I'm not writing for
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: golf people. I'm writing for Look, women read books. That's
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: who buys books. I know that.
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: Well, and we buy them for the boyfriends or husbands
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: in our life.
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: That's right.
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: And then we read them.
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: Once you get outside business books, though, which the Wall
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: Street guys buy, you know, when you get outside that genre,
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: women buy most books. And so there's a reason that I,
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: when I set out to do the Patriots book, there's
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: a couple of people falling in love and getting married
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: in that book. And it's actually... very directly relevant to
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: the story I'm telling. When Robert Kraft meets his wife, Myra,
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: that wedding proposal... It's just like you would think Steven
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: Spielberg made that up. Yeah. Because it just sounds like, oh,
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: come on. Are you kidding me? Like he met her
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: and the next day she proposed not. First of all,
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: she wouldn't go on a date with him. And 24
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: hours later, she asks him if he would marry her. Like,
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: are you kidding me? But then also when when Tom
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: Brady meets Giselle, I actually found that incredibly interesting that.
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: They are talking about getting married at a time when
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: Robert and Myra are celebrating 40 years of marriage. And
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: and by that time, Tom Brady looks at Robert. You know,
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: he's got a great relationship with his own dad, but
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: he also has like this kind of interesting like father
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: son relationship with Robert. And he was watching the way
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: Robert and Myra functioned as a couple. They looked at
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: Tom like a fifth son and they treated him like one.
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: And he's in that universe as he's meeting the most
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: famous supermodel in the world. And I just think the
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: way that rubs off, to me, that's all really interesting
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: and they're great portals into who these guys are. Yeah.
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: And actually something I want to mention to you too,
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: is I have actually teared up. Like I felt myself
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: choking up reading this book. I don't think that's ever happened.
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: And it's actually not regarding the stories with the women
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: in it. It's about like their feelings of winning or their,
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: you know, camaraderie with the team or things that are
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: happening to them that they have to overcome or. And
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: so anyways, it's a fantastic book for women who don't
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: give a shit about the Patriots. So we'll go from there,
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: but yeah, I just really, I love it. I'm so
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: proud of you.
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: I think on the next edition, we're going to get
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: a new blurb from Rachel. You could tell in the back, misunderstood.
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: I don't give a shit about football, but. Yeah, it's
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: a great line. Yeah. Okay.
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: So these topics or everything about what goes into the
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: book has to be such a huge part of your
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: life for so many years, I would guess.
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: Doing the research, writing the book, and then, you know,
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: making it into a docu-series, which they all seem to
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: be coming, right?
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: You know, you have to really like your subjects and
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: you have to really like, you know, and get the access.
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: So I want to talk to you about access, but
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: let's get into the dynasty in particular. Can you define dynasty?
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: Because we've heard it used with the Yankees. I think after,
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: you know, if the Kansas City Chiefs win this weekend,
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: this will come out after, but we'll know, you know,
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: dynasty will be used again with that. So define dynasty
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: to you.
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: Sure. So there's a more modern definition of dynasty that
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: I think has been applicable since like the 70s or 80s.
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: And that really is defined as winning three championships with
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: the same nucleus. Okay, so let's not talk about the
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: Yankees from the Joe DiMaggio, Mickey Mantle era, or the
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: Celtics from the Bill Russell era. Those dynasties, they won...
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: Many more than three, right? They just won again and
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: again and again and again. In the modern era, where
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: the game has changed quite a bit, it's a lot
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: different today. To win three championships with the same nucleus
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: is extremely hard to do. So the Kansas City Chiefs
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: are not a dynasty yet. If they win the Super Bowl,
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: they will have won three with the same nucleus. Patrick
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: Mahomes as a quarterback, Andy Reid as a coach, and
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: the Hunts as the owner. That's a that's a dynasty.
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: If they win a third one, they've got three. They're
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: in the club. There's only there's a very small number
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: of football franchises that have done that. The Green Bay
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: Packers did it, you know, in the 60s. The Steelers
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: did it in the 70s and the 49ers did it
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: with Joe Montana and Bill Walsh and and DeBartolo in
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: the 80s. The Patriots are different because they didn't win three,
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: they won six. And they didn't do it in a decade.
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: They did it over the course of two decades. So
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: the Patriots are, you could call them a double dynasty
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: if you want, or just it's the greatest dynasty, which
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: is how I refer to it, because no one's come
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: close to doing what they did. There are other teams, Rachel,
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: like the Steelers have won six Super Bowls, which is
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: as many as the Patriots have won. But the Steelers
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: won four. in the seventies with one nucleus. And then
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: many years later with a totally different team and in
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: a different, different era, they want a couple more.
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: Right. Okay. So now I want to hear what, what
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: it took to kind of, to make this book. What,
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: how hard was it to get the kind of access
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: that you were given to make it as thorough as
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: it was?
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: Um, it, you know, it's one of the, um, Harder
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: things that I've done in my career is navigating all
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: of that. I started with I'm kind of an old
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: fashioned person in a lot of ways in terms of
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: how I do certain things. And I started like my
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: literally my very first step in this process. And it's
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: like a baby step compared to where you got to
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: end up. This is like looking up at Mount Everest
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: when you're on the bottom and you move an inch.
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's how far you got to go. And
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: I started that first step was sending a letter to
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: Robert Kraft, the owner of the team. And my thought
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: was a lot of people had gone through Tom and
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: Bill over the years for stories, for books, for all
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: kinds of stuff, for films. no one had really ever
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: approached the owner and no one had ever tried to
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: tell a story through the eyes of the owner. And
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: I thought that was the way in. And so I
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: wrote to him and initially I didn't hear from him,
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: which was not surprising. What was very surprising to me
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: was eventually like five or six months later, one day
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: I went to my mailbox and there was a letter
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: from him personally saying, And before I even opened it,
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: I had decided that he was different. Regardless of what
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: this letter says, the fact that he took the time
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: to write me a personal letter the old fashioned way.
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: In other words, it wasn't the vice president of communications
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: for the Patriots. It wasn't an email from an assistant
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: or just a nothing. It was an actual letter in
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: the mail. I still have it. It's to me, it's
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: a it's a very important memento in the history of
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: this process. That led to a series of correspondence, which
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: ultimately resulted in me getting an invitation to come up
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: to the Gillette Stadium and meet with the owner in person.
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: And I did that numerous times over the summer in 2018.
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: These were get acquainted meetings. This is not me working
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: on a book. This is us figuring out whether I
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: can work on a book and whether this will work.
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: And he asked me a lot of questions. I asked
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: him a lot of questions. But interestingly, I think maybe
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: for your audiences, the kinds of things he asked me
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: might surprise people. Like he was asking me things like,
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: are you married? How long have you been married? Do
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: you have children? Yes. How many do you have? He
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: was really I mean, I look back on it now
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: and I see he was really trying to understand not
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: who I was as a writer. I mean, he could
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: look that up, but what are you like as a person?
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: And it's interesting, like, you know, and I think that
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: there were things that we had in common, right? And
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: so I was asking him a lot of questions about
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: his dad and his mom and his relationship with his
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: father and his mother. And so there was some, what
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: would I call it? I mean, a rapport that was
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: formed early. It was conversational early. And at some point
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: there was some comfort level established and there were a
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: lot more steps that came after that. But, you know,
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: I had to build relationships with a lot of people.
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: But I started with the owner because to me, he
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: was the most important person for me to get access
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: to and learn from and talk to.
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: And then from him, was he able to open the
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: doors to everyone else or did did it kind of
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: end there with him and you had to go around
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: the other way?
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: Well, I still had to do my job, right? Like
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: you can't, you still have to be able to connect
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: with other people, a lot of other people and everybody's different, right?
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: Tom is different than Robert. Bill is different than Robert.
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: And those, those outreaches went differently and had different results.
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: I don't mean like bad and good. I mean, the,
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: the degree of participation and, or the degree of openness
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: was different. Um, depending on who I was dealing with.
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: But I saw them as the principals, and then there
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: was a whole cast of characters on the second ring
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: that I thought was really important.
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: And then when you just talk about the process of
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: putting it all together and laying it out, because there
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: just must be so much information in front of you
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: and so many stories. And what struck me in reading it,
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: especially at the beginning, and you're not reading about touchdowns
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: and football until later when we get into some games,
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: is you know, how do you even decide what comes first?
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: How do you decide to, how you're going to write it?
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: It's like really poetic how you write it because, you know,
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: you can write things in an outline and know what
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: you're going to put, but then the way you write
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: it is so eloquent and draws the reader in. The
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: way you start the book with Drew Bledsoe on a
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: hospital bed is like genius. You know, it pulls you
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: in as a reader. I don't even know who that was,
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: you know? And I was like, oh my God, this
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: is great, you know?
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you're actually that opening scene. So I could just
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: talk really briefly about the first scene in the last scene,
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: because the first scene was something I had to recreate
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: from 2001. The last scene happened in real time while
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: I was there.
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: So they're different. The first scene is a surgical procedure
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: where a hundred million dollar quarterback is about to go
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: under the knife. And because he has blood pumping through
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: a ruptured artery and filling up his lung. And if
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: they don't stop, get the blood out of the lung
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: and stop the bleeding, he's literally going to die, which
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: would have been the first time in the history of
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: football that someone had died from something like that. And
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: what I wanted really badly was I wanted the reader
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: to be able to look over the shoulder of the
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: surgeon who's looking down and opening up Drew's chest and
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: I mean, there's a lot of reasons why I want
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: to do that. Partly it's because you want to show
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: the reader on the first page, this is going to
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: be intimate. You are going to be inside this organization.
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: You're going to be in rooms like an emergency room,
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: an operating room, which usually you're never allowed to go.
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: And second of all, I was trying to set the stage.
• 44:18
  Speaker 3: The car is beautiful. Where did you end up going
• 44:21
  Speaker 3: for it?
• 44:22
  Speaker 4: This exclusive place that Dad has connections with. They have
• 44:24
  Speaker 4: more cars for more dealerships than like anywhere else.
• 44:27
  Speaker 3: You have to put me in touch. What's it called?
• 44:29
  Speaker 5: It's Dune DL.
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: Where?
• 44:33
  Speaker 5: Dune DL. There's an accent on the E.
• 44:37
  Speaker 3: Do you mean.
• 44:38
  Speaker 5: Yes, I got it on Dundale Cars.
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: Lift?
• 44:40
  Speaker 3: Please. You going past Kimmage?
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: Oh, Kimmage.
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: No.
• 44:45
  Speaker 5: Dundale Cars.
• 44:45
  Speaker 4: You couldn't possibly go anywhere else.
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: Because when Drew wakes up from that procedure and he's
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: groggy because he's been under the influence of a drug
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: that was designed to dim the pain during the procedure,
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: when he wakes up and he's foggy and he's just
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: trying to figure out where he is and the first
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: thing he sees looking up from his bed is three
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: figures standing over him. It's in order. It's Robert Kraft,
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: Bill Belichick, and Tommy, as Drew called him, Tommy Brady,
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: the kid that no one knew yet. who had not
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: ever started a football game in the NFL yet. He's
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: so unknown that when he showed up at the hospital
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: to check on Drew, they wouldn't let him in because
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: the hospital staff didn't know who he was. When he
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: wakes up and sees those three men standing over him,
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: it is unfathomable that he's looking up at the future
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: of the greatest football dynasty ever. At that moment, they
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: are so far from that, it is almost laughable. Right.
• 45:47
  Speaker 2: But that's the future. And so that's why that scene
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: had to be recreated with interviews with all of the
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: people who are in that room. The most important one
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: of all is the surgeon. And the surgeon has never,
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: ever talked about that. So I had to go through
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: a lot of legal steps just to get the authority
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: for him to be authorized to talk about that procedure
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: because of medical privilege. So it's complicated and it takes time. Right.
• 46:17
  Speaker 5: Of course.
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: Go ahead. One at the end, which is, you know, actually,
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to go to the end because I
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: don't want to give the ending away. The next chapter
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: is in the present. Right. The prologue is in the ER.
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: Chapter one starts in the moment. And that's a scene
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: where Tom Brady in 2018 is walking into his suite
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: at the stadium. Excuse me, 2019. Right. He's walking into
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: the suite in the stadium, and it's about to start
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: his last season in New England. He's got one year left,
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: and he's going to leave and go to Tampa at
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: the end of that year. When he walks into that room,
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: he's looking out at the glass at an empty Gillette Stadium.
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: There's no one in there. This is the suite that
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: usually Giselle and the children sit in on game day
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: to watch him play. So he's never looking down at
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: the field from that view. He's always on the field.
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: And I was just taken by this idea that here's
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: Tom Brady, who never has time to take a moment
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: to reflect. And he never has this perspective from up above.
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: I wonder what he's thinking when he looks out at
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: the empty Gillette Stadium after 19 years in New England.
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: Came there as a boy that no one knew, unmarried, single,
• 47:35
  Speaker 2: a nobody. who goes on to marry one of the
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: most beautiful women in the world, have children, be a dad,
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: build a business, become a superstar, all of that, he
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: becomes a man in full in that building over the
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: course of 20 years. What's it like to look out
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: at this at the back end of it? And I
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: asked him that when he came in. And he stood
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: there and looked out and reflected out loud, which is
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: why I was able to tell you what's in his
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: head now. And I don't tell you in the chapter,
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: I don't put myself in the scene because it's not
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: about the writer. It's so much better when it's just
• 48:12
  Speaker 2: all the light is on him because nobody cares about
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: the writer. They want to know what Tom is thinking.
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: And I just thought it was an incredibly powerful way
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: to open up when he's looking back at the end.
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: That's why that chapter is called End Game. It's chapter one,
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: but it's End Game. And then you can go back
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: to the beginning and then start again. But, you know,
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: I spent a long time figuring out how to do
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: all that. Like, it's way faster to write it. But
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: what takes time is to diagram it. It's like building
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: a house. The architectural plans take a long time for
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: me to draw out. Once I have the plan, I
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: can write like the wind. Right. Right.
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: And it's so interesting though, because you paint such a
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: good picture. I mean, you, I could literally picture it
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: in my head as I'm reading it because the details
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: are so good and, and the emotion is there, you
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: know what I mean? And it's very clear that it
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: is a view coming from someone who had access to
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: be in that room with all these people, whether it
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: was in reality or just through hearing stories. So, I mean,
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: you really feel like you're in the room. I'm curious,
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: you know, with all the access you did get to,
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: you know, the main three that you end up really
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: talking about, Belichick, Kraft, and Brady, was there something that
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: stood out about why this was such a winning team?
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: Are there three reasons this was, you know, they were
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: such winners?
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: Well, one of the best things that happened to all
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: three of these men is they were vastly underestimated by
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: their peers. And when you're underestimated, that just pisses you off.
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: I mean, there's it really we're all like that. It's
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: human nature when you know you're really good at something
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: or you're you're working really hard. Maybe it's just when
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: you're in school, like as a student and you're and
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: you're underestimated by a teacher. It does something to your psyche.
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: And for a lot of people, it breaks you. You know,
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: like it's. I mean, I was underestimated a lot. You know,
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: it drives me as a writer because I know what
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: it's like to be underestimated. And I think it's common
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: in so many genres and businesses and just in life
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: in general. And while it while it's happening, you hate it.
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: But I think for these three guys, it was a
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: wonderful thing because they were all underestimated in their own spheres.
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: And they they are such incredibly competitive, determined men in
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: their own right. By putting them together, there's you know,
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: Tom would play with anger. You know, Michael Jordan played
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: with anger. You know, he went out when he stepped
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: on the court. He was there to beat you into
• 50:56
  Speaker 2: the ground. Tom played with anger and he played really
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: well with anger. Tom is not an angry human. You know,
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: when you meet Tom and anywhere off the football field,
• 51:05
  Speaker 2: he's one of the kindest, most thoughtful, gentle humans you'll
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: ever come across. He is like that in real life.
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: But when he's on the football field, he's a killer.
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: And and Bill is Bill has this incredible reservoir of drive.
• 51:22
  Speaker 2: And so you put them together. That's why I compare
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: them to Lennon and McCartney in the book, because when
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: Bill put his headset on and Tom put his helmet on,
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: they didn't have to be best friends off the field.
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: They had a magical language between them, just like John
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: and Paul did whenever they were in the studio at
• 51:42
  Speaker 2: Abbey Road. They just made magic. And then when they
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: walked out of the studio, they went their separate ways.
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: And I think that's the beauty of Bill and Tom.
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: And then you got Robert, who... I mean, this guy,
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: he's 82 years old. And every time I'm around him,
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: I'm just like, how does someone at that age possess
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: the drive and the energy even after never? I'm not
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: even talking about just saying because he's older. I'm saying
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: he's already accomplished so much like what's left to prove.
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: But that's the thing about all three of these guys.
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: It's their... That's not how... They think differently than everyone else. Like,
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: they're going to drive full speed until they're not with
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: us anymore. That's how they're made. And I think that
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: combination of the three of them, it's kind of scary. Like,
• 52:31
  Speaker 2: for 20 years... It's not surprising that they ran roughshod
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: over the league for 20 years.
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: And I've heard you talk about how, you know, when
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: people have asked them after a Super Bowl game that
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: they won, you know, what's next? They said, well, we're
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: thinking about how we could do better tomorrow. It was always,
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: you know, that was never going to be the top.
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: It was there was always somewhere else to climb.
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: What's your favorite Super Bowl? The next one. Right. That's
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: the answer. It's the next one. Right.
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: And also something that I read in your book too,
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: I found it interesting when a lot of media would
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: get stuck on side notes, right? They would ask about scandals.
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: They would ask about what happened in the game, whatever,
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: but they will always be like, Seattle's next or, you know,
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: wherever they were going, whatever their topic was on their mind.
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: And they never got sidetracked and tried not to let
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: the press sidetrack them unless they really needed to address something.
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean?
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: It's a great it's a great lesson for life. Like
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: it drives you nuts if you're if you're part of
• 53:30
  Speaker 2: the press corps or you're one of the other teams
• 53:33
  Speaker 2: and the Patriots are accused of. Something. They're always getting
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: accused of something. And Bill's answer to every question is
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: we're on to Cincinnati. We're on to Cincinnati. It doesn't
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: matter what the question is. That's the answer. That is
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: annoying as hell when you're a journalist trying to do
• 53:52
  Speaker 2: your job. But he's actually teaching his players a very
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: valuable lesson, which is don't listen to all that outside noise.
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: Just focus on your job. If you just do your
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: job and do it well, the rest will take care
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: of itself. I'm telling you that the no other team
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: can do that. Like if you had laced layered these
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: kinds of accusations and not just I'm not just talking
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: about Spygate and Deflategate, but let's just talk about the
• 54:21
  Speaker 2: year they went undefeated the whole season and went all
• 54:25
  Speaker 2: the way to the Super Bowl and then got a
• 54:27
  Speaker 2: absolutely soul crushing loss to the Giants. That's the kind
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: of defeat that destroys a team, like from the heart,
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: just rips your heart out. The Patriots came back, like
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: they came back and went to the Super Bowl like
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: five more times and won three more after that with
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: the same guys that went through that thing. And so
• 54:49
  Speaker 2: I think there's just that, that it's almost as cold,
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: just determined. You are not going to distract me or
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: move me off my mark. Right. Yeah.
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: Um, how much credit should Bill Belichick really get? Does
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: he deserve it? Or, you know, are all these wins,
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: the six wins that they got due to Tom Brady
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: and without Tom Brady is his record kind of shit
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: in your opinion?
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Um, I think it's a disservice to, to all
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: three of these guys. And I mentioned Robert in the
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: same breath as the two of them, because I, I
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: honestly think that, um, Bill and Tom deserve equal credit.
• 55:30
  Speaker 2: I mean, this was a partnership to teams. They won
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: six Super Bowls together. And the reason I include Robert
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: in the equation, I would almost you'd never be able
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: to include an owner in the in this question, except
• 55:45
  Speaker 2: in this case, I think Tom and Bill probably would
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: have split up. before they won the last three Super
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: Bowls if it wasn't for Robert. You know, Robert kept
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: them together for the second decade. So if things had
• 55:58
  Speaker 2: gone the way they should have gone, like all their
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: predecessors that built dynasties, they would have broke up after
• 56:05
  Speaker 2: about 10, 12 years tops. And at that time, everyone
• 56:08
  Speaker 2: would have still said, wow, what a great run. They
• 56:11
  Speaker 2: won three Super Bowls. They went to four or five.
• 56:13
  Speaker 2: I mean, that's a great run. They did an amazing job.
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: But to win three more, that was really Robert's diplomacy,
• 56:20
  Speaker 2: keeping his two stars together. And that's all behind the scenes.
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: You know, because you're reading it, but that's all the
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: behind the curtain stuff that you can't see on TV. Right.
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: What also is really evident, I mean, Robert Kraft, the
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: way you write about him is so interesting. He's, you know,
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: for someone like me who's just read about him in
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: the news or sees him, you know, he's the guy
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: that had this incident at a massage parlor a couple
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: years ago, you know, and this older gentleman. But there's
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: I mean, this man is so impressive and obviously has
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: a whole backstory and, you know, that some people don't
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: think of when they're just looking at him now, right?
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: Something that really struck me is how much he believes
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: in team. All of them seem to be very... you know,
• 57:07
  Speaker 1: it's almost like they don't believe in individuality. They are
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: who they are because they believe in being a team
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: and they believe in winning. Those seem to be the
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: two things and they care about each other and they
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: care about winning. And they also, Robert, you said made
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: such an effort to make sure that everyone on his
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: team does work with charity or gives back. That was
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: so important to him. And I think, I mean, is
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: that what sets them apart or do all owners make
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: their teammates do that?
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: No other owner does that. I mean, he's the only
• 57:37
  Speaker 2: owner in the NFL that does most of the things
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: that he does. You know, he takes NFL players to
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: Israel on a regular basis. And not just his own players.
• 57:49
  Speaker 2: He's brought a lot of players from other teams to Israel.
• 57:53
  Speaker 2: He pays for it all. He brings them to the
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: Holy Land. He negotiates the labor deals. He does the
• 58:00
  Speaker 2: television contracts. He He does... You know, when all this
• 58:05
  Speaker 2: stuff was happening with Donald Trump a few years ago,
• 58:07
  Speaker 2: when he was saying all these ridiculous things about NFL
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: players and driving a racial wedge, you know, between the
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: league and its fans and doing all this stuff, Robert
• 58:19
  Speaker 2: is the guy who kind of quietly behind the scenes
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: is bringing people together. Right. He's really good at a
• 58:27
  Speaker 2: lot of different things. And I think one of the
• 58:29
  Speaker 2: things he's probably best at is... doing things and getting
• 58:32
  Speaker 2: no credit, you know, and, and most people that do
• 58:35
  Speaker 2: great things, they, they, you know, they want the credit
• 58:37
  Speaker 2: for it too. It's like, Hey, I kind of did that.
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 58:40
  Speaker 2: For him to be successful though, at what he does, he,
• 58:44
  Speaker 2: he has to not take credit and he has to
• 58:48
  Speaker 2: be unseen most of the time. And I think that
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: that's humanly a hard thing to do.
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 58:54
  Speaker 5: Well, and as you mentioned, the car is beautiful.
• 58:57
  Speaker 3: Where did you end up going for it?
• 58:59
  Speaker 4: This exclusive place that data's connections with. They have more
• 59:02
  Speaker 4: cars for more dealerships than like anywhere else.
• 59:04
  Speaker 3: You have to put me in touch. What's it called?
• 59:06
  Speaker 4: It's Dune ideal where dune ideal there's an accent on
• 59:12
  Speaker 4: the e do you mean yes i got it on
• 59:15
  Speaker 4: done deal cars.
• 59:16
  Speaker 3: Lift please you're going past oh kimmage.
• 59:20
  Speaker 4: No done deal cars you couldn't possibly go anywhere else.
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: The Patriots are no stranger to controversy, as he had
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: some of his own. I'm curious, you know, he seems
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: the type that would be terribly heartbroken over what happened,
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: you know, obviously with the gates, with the spy gate
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: and the deflate gate. But what about Aaron Hernandez? Do
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: you think that that affected him personally? I mean, I
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: know he felt lied to from reading this in your book.
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: I know he cut him pretty quickly. But then when he,
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: you know, when he was not only convicted of murder,
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: but then when he killed himself, how do you think
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: that that affected him?
• 59:59
  Speaker 2: I know how it affected him because he, you know,
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 2: he talked about it with me and the interviews that
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 2: I did with him. And I tried to bring that
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 2: out in the book. He. It really hit him hard.
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 2: hard because he trusted him and it's hard to fool Robert.
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 2: He's a very sophisticated, smart person. He's good at reading
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 2: people and he misread Aaron. Yeah. Um, he had a
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 2: hard time believing that he could do those things that
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 2: he was accused of doing and ultimately was convicted of doing. Yeah.
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 2: And I think it was painful for him because it, uh, This,
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 2: you know, when players join that team, you know, they're
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 2: reminded that you're wearing the family name on your uniform.
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 2: And because all the players do works of charity and
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 2: commit a certain amount of their resources to nonprofit work
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 2: and all this other stuff, it's very community-based. So when
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 2: you have something like that happen, that's the opposite, the
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 2: starkest opposite of what the organization has tried to build
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 2: for the last 30 years in New England. So It
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 2: was painful. It cast a pall over the whole team,
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: the whole organization. And it's sad. It's really sad. It's
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 2: a sad chapter. And honestly, it was not a chapter
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 2: that I enjoyed writing. I mean, there were some hard
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 2: things I wrote about that didn't bother me that much,
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 2: but that one was also hard to write. Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: And then regarding Spygate and Deflategate, like what was real?
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: You know, the media had so much to say about it.
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: I don't even really know how that ended. I mean,
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: I know from what I'm reading, I'm right there now
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: in what I'm reading. But like, what was real? Because
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: to me, like Deflategate sounds so dumb.
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 2: It is dumb. It's dumb. I mean, Spygate was, in
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 2: my opinion, was more real. That doesn't mean it was
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 2: it had a significant impact on the outcome of games.
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 2: But the fact is, in Spygate, there was an acknowledgement
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 2: and admission of wrongdoing where they were taping signals from
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 2: the New York Jets sideline. And they acknowledge that and
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 2: they were punished for it, as they should have been. Now,
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: whether that had anything to do with why the Patriots
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 2: were beating the Jets like a drum... I don't think
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 2: it had anything to do with that. And the thing
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 2: I like to remind people about Spygate is that happened
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 2: in the first half of the first game of the
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 2: 2007 season. The second half, they absolutely destroyed the Jets
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 2: when they weren't taping. And then the rest of the season,
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 2: when they obviously weren't taping, they went 15-0. And the
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 2: games weren't close. They were beating really good teams by...
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 2: They were basically demonstrating to people in overdrive that this
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 2: has nothing to do with filming. And I believe that's true,
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 2: but it doesn't change the fact. And this is the
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 2: problem with there. We all know perception is powerful. That
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 2: shouldn't have been going on. And it's it's unfortunate that
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 2: they did it because there's always going to be people
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 2: who latch onto that and say, see, that was real.
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 2: I think Deflategate was a whole lot of craziness about nothing.
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 2: There were balls that had funny air pressure that day.
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 2: It was cold. It was rainy. The Patriots killed the
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 2: Colts that day, and I think the evidence shows pretty
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 2: clearly that this was really all brought about because the, the,
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 2: the Colts and the team before that, that the Patriots
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 2: had beaten the Ravens, they kind of were communicating and
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 2: complaining about the Patriots winning so much. And that was
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 2: the start of this thing. And Tom Brady kind of got,
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 2: you know, he took the brunt of this and it
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 2: tarnished his reputation, which I think is on it's unfortunate
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 2: that he played long enough to kind of, you know,
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 2: Wear that off ultimately And winning all those extra Super
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 2: Bowls But he won four more after that But I
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 2: think that the Deflategate thing Was a whole lot about
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 2: nothing Spygate I think.
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: Had more substance And do you think Deflategate wouldn't have
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: been Such a big deal if Spygate hadn't happened Because
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: they were already accused of cheating.
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 2: No question Deflategate wouldn't have gotten any traction If it
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 2: wasn't for Spygate They'd already had a gate that's the problem.
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 1: Right OK, so your book comes out. The Dynasty came
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: out in 2020 during COVID. You kind of and the
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: end of that, Tom Brady had, you know, already said
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: he was leaving the Patriots. I'm curious if you know
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: what that conversation was like between Belichick and Kraft when
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: they found out that he was moving to another team,
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: that he was going to the Bucs.
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 2: Yes, at the beginning of our interview, you talked about
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 2: the prologue. The scene you're describing or asking about is
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 2: the epilogue. Oh. Yeah, so I won't give it away,
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 2: but what I will say... Is I was waiting to
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 2: see what the decision was going to be because that's
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 2: how I was going to close the book.
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 4: OK.
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 2: And I'm not saying I predicted that because I didn't.
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 2: I was surprised. So I'm acknowledging I was surprised. But
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 2: I will tell you how I wrote it because you
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 2: asked about intimacy earlier and writing and all that. I
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 2: wrote the last chapter, which is a scene where Tom
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 2: notifies Robert and Bill that he's decided to leave. which
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 2: is going to effectively end the dynasty by definition, the
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 2: quarterback's leaving it's over. I wrote that over the course
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 2: of two days, that last scene. And I wrote it
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 2: in my office on a Saturday and a Sunday, and
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 2: I wrote it while listening to Abby wrote. And I
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 2: listened to it again and again and again, because for me,
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 2: This was that moment like this is the end. You're
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 2: seeing the end of something transformative that we'll never see again.
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 2: I felt that way. I feel that way about the
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 2: Beatles breaking up. I love you, too. I love the
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 2: Rolling Stones, but they're never going to be the Beatles.
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 2: There's only one of those. And I think when when
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 2: John and Paul called it quits like that's just it's sad.
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 2: It's heartbreaking. But it was time. And this was time.
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 2: It was heartbreaking, sad, but it was time. And that scene,
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 2: I wrote it to that music for a reason, because
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 2: I wanted the reader to feel the sadness of it. Right.
• 1:06:42
  Speaker 2: It's the the last second of the book. The last
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 2: image is Robert Kraft standing alone in a doorway at
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 2: his house in the dark while Tom Brady's taillights of
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 2: his car flash. disappear as he goes through the electronic
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 2: gate at robert's house and disappears into the night it's
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 2: it's heavy wow um do.
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: You think we'll ever see a quarterback like tom brady
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: again do you think patrick mahomes is is similar no.
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 2: I don't think he's similar and that's not taking anything
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 2: away from patrick i think patrick is amazing i think
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 2: he's the best player in the nfl today um i
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 2: think he's alone he's in a class of one in
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 2: the nfl right now This is his moment. I think
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to predict how many Super Bowls he's
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 2: going to win, you know, but no one's ever won
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 2: seven and no one's ever played 23 years at the
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 2: peak of his career. When Tom retired last year, he
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 2: could play right now and he'd still be top three,
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 2: four in the league. He was when he left after
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 2: 23 seasons. It is almost impossible to play quarterback in
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 2: the NFL without at peak performance for more than 12 years.
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 2: I mean, the data is just overwhelmingly obvious about that.
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 2: And that is from players that in Tom's era were
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 2: pocket passers. And what I mean by that, not to
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 2: get too technical, Rachel, is Tom didn't run with the football.
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 2: Peyton Manning didn't run with the football. They were pocket passers,
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 2: meaning they stayed in the pocket and they threw. They
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 2: rarely scrambled. They rarely ran. Patrick Mahomes is a running machine.
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 2: It's one of the reasons he's so electric and dynamic.
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 2: And all I'm saying is that in this business, it
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 2: is very, very hard to survive when you take hits
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 2: year after year after year after year. So this is
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 2: not about talent. It's about endurance. It's about survival. in
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 2: the NFL. Steve Young was a running quarterback, and he
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 2: was the best to ever do it. And there was
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 2: a point where he couldn't do it anymore because his
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 2: body just wouldn't allow it. It was too dangerous. And
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 2: I'm saying that I think what patrick patrick's playing in
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 2: a new era of football and it's all about the
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 2: quarterback and the mobility and the running and all that
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 2: and i think it's going to be hard for any
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 2: quarterback any quarterback to play 23 years at the top
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 2: of their game and win seven super bowls i just
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 2: i'm not sure we'll ever see that again Right.
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 1: So you're an executive producer on the docuseries. Talk to
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 1: me about the process of how that happens. You write
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 1: the book and then someone and then that gets picked
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 1: up or, you know, as you're writing, this is a possibility.
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 1: Break that down.
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 2: So I've had five of my books turned into television
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 2: shows or films now. And so when I first started
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 2: doing it, I knew nothing about it. Now I know
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 2: a little bit about it. And so, but one of
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 2: the things is like, you know, writing in a way
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 2: that makes a book more adaptable to screen. And so I,
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 2: I try to do that anyways. And, and then learning
• 1:10:04
  Speaker 2: more about how to, how to pitch a book for
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 2: a television show, for a series, for a movie. And yeah,
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 2: Also getting more familiar with the kind of people you
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 2: want to work with because you've maybe worked with them
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 2: on something else. And so I started thinking about the
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 2: Dynasty as a documentary series before I started writing the book.
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 2: When I was researching the book and outlining and sketching scenes,
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 2: I was already thinking this would make a great docuseries.
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 2: And so I started working formally on the docuseries as
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 2: soon as I wrote that last scene in the book,
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 2: the Tom saying goodbye scene. I had about eight months
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 2: before the book went on sale from that moment. And
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 2: I spent most of that time working on the legwork
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 2: to sell the series, to sell the book as a
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 2: series idea. And then it's a matter of meeting with producers,
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 2: meeting with directors, finding a production company, finding a streaming
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 2: service or a studio. And I was intimately involved in
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 2: every step of that. Whereas I can say, honestly, in
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 2: the beginning, when I first started trying to sell books
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 2: for development, I wasn't intimately involved. I didn't know enough.
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 2: I didn't know anything. I didn't know anybody. But now
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 2: I do. And so I'm much more just like with
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 2: my books. Nowadays, I'm involved in every detail, like cover design,
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 2: the font of the letters on the spine of the
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 2: book jacket. I'm involved in all of that.
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 3: Mm hmm.
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 2: And I now I'm a much more involved in the
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 2: adaptation process to, for films.
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 1: So what can we expect from this series? I mean,
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 1: did the guy, did all the main players get involved?
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 1: Did they sit for interviews?
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 2: Yes. Every one of them, Belichick, Brady craft, uh, All
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 2: the main players, Randy Moss, Drew Bledsoe, Rob Gronkowski, Julian Edelman,
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 2: Ty Law, Teddy Bruschi, all those guys, Rupert Murdoch, Jon
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 2: Bon Jovi. It's the whole cast. It's a lot of
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 2: different people that are either really in the thick of
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 2: this story or had interesting intersections at some moment in time.
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 2: That was worthy of putting them in there. And by
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 2: the way, a lot of the adversaries, the foes are
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 2: in here too. The New York Giants, the Rams, like
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 2: the Jets, those, we have representation from those guys as well.
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 2: I mean- Michael Strahan is a great voice in the series.
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 2: He's terrific. I mean, and obviously the Giants beat the
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 2: Patriots twice in Super Bowls, and Michael's very happy to
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 2: talk about that. Right, right.
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 1: Now, incidentally, did these guys talk to you about reading
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 1: the book this time?
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 2: Oh, some of them did. I mean, obviously not in the...
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 2: You know, we would not ask them a question like
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 2: that on camera. No, no, just for you. Yeah. Yeah,
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 2: a lot of them did, and a lot of them
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 2: were very... Look, you know this because you went through
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 2: this with Tiger. I mean, when you write a book,
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 2: there's a couple things that happen. Some people won't talk
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 2: at all, and you're a perfect example. You have legitimate
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 2: reasons that could range from, I just don't know this guy.
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 2: I don't know if I can trust him. I don't
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 2: know if I really want to talk about this. Who
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 2: knows how this book is going to come out? All valid.
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 2: All valid. Then you have people who say, well, I'll
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 2: talk to you, but... They're talking to you, but they
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 2: hold stuff back because they're not sure they really want
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 2: to go the distance with you, but they'll give you
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 2: some stuff. And then you have a few rare people
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 2: who actually go the distance. Well, once the book comes out,
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 2: all those people who were like, you know, I'll give
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 2: you a little bit. If they now can see it
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 2: and go, wow, he really did me well. He didn't
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 2: take advantage of me. He didn't abuse my relationship of trust.
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 2: Now they're willing to go the distance with you in
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 2: a film. Or someone like you who didn't want to
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 2: talk at all now says, well, yeah, I'll talk. I
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 2: wasn't going to talk before, but I'll talk now. And
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 2: so we had a lot of that. And it was,
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 2: you know, very helpful.
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 1: And does it follow, does the docuseries follow the arc
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 1: of the book or it's all new stories?
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 2: It follows the arc of the book. So the series
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 2: is based on the book. And and it follows that arc.
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 2: The difference, of course, is that the series comes out
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 2: four years after the book finished. So it also has
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 2: an element of covering the you know, the end the
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 2: end part that that I had stopped writing for. Right.
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 1: And so much. And it's so timely. Obviously, you guys
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 1: are putting it out right after the Super Bowl. And
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 1: also all this interesting stuff with Belichick that came out.
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 1: I'm curious your thoughts on Belichick not finding a home yet.
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it did come out. The timing of this is just, again, spontaneous.
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 2: You can't really do much about it. But I think he'll...
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 2: I hate to make predictions, but I suspect he wants
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 2: to keep coaching. And I think he will coach again.
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 2: I think legacy and achievement and history matter to him.
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 2: And I think that he will get another chance. But
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 2: coaching NFL is like a carousel. The coaches fall off
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 2: all the time. So I think he'll have an opportunity. Right.
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 1: Has there ever been a person you wanted to write
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 1: about or do a book about that wouldn't give you
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 1: access or that doesn't, you know, that it just nobody
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 1: wasn't as interested as you are?
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 2: Yes. I'm doing that book right now. That's my next book.
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 1: Can we talk about it or no?
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 2: I can't.
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 1: But will you tell me off camera?
• 1:16:03
  Speaker 2: Yes, I will. I will.
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 1: A couple other random questions. What do you think of
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 1: the Brock Purdy story?
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 2: You know, I think it's, when you say the Brock
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 2: Purdy story, which story are you talking about? Yeah.
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 1: Coming from like third string, like, you know, this young
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 1: kid who kind of like Brady wouldn't have gotten a
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 1: chance if somebody else didn't get hurt. And then the
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 1: next person, and now we're going to the Superbowl. So,
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 1: and he's still young.
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 2: I loved it. I just wanted to make sure that's
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 2: the story you were talking about. Yeah, I love that story.
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 2: I mean, how can you not like that story? You
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 2: don't have to like the 49ers to like that story.
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 2: It's a great story. I think that's the beauty of sports,
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 2: those kinds of stories. It's great. Right.
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 1: Taylor and Travis, are you, like, what's the big deal? Like,
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 1: isn't this good for the NFL? What do you think
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 1: Robert Kraft and all those people think about it?
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 2: Look, it's great for the NFL. It's, you know... Anybody
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 2: who's complaining about this, just, you know, come on. I mean,
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 2: I'm not a Chiefs fan, but what's happened this year
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 2: has been great for the league. I think Taylor Swift is,
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 2: you know, she's the biggest star in the world right now.
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 2: I don't, you know, that's a fact. I mean, that's
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 2: not an opinion. It's a fact. Yeah. And the fact
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 2: that she has... been involved with the NFL this year
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 2: is great for the league. You know, there's a lot
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 2: of people paying attention to the NFL that weren't before.
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 2: And it's the other thing is great storyline. I mean,
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 2: when when, you know, Travis's brother. uh, loses to is
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 2: knocked out of the playoffs and retires in the next game.
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 2: He's in Buffalo in the cold and he rips his
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 2: shirt off and jumps out of the box. And he's
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 2: hoisting little girls up that are whose parents are Buffalo
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 2: bills fans. And he's holding the kids up so they
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 2: can wave to Taylor and drinking beers with the fans.
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 2: I mean, how is that not good for the NFL?
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 2: It's just, it's camaraderie. It's all that stuff. It's, And honestly,
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 2: one of the reasons I do like writing about sports
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 2: versus politics is because sports is a great way to
• 1:18:13
  Speaker 2: bring people together. And even when you fight about sports,
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 2: we all know it's really just kind of in fun,
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 2: like it's a game. The Yankee-Red Sox rivalry or the
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 2: Lakers-Celtics rivalry, those are great rivalries, but at the end
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 2: of the day, there's a lot of respect, mutual respect
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 2: both ways between the cities and the fans and the people.
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 2: It's not this meanness that you see in politics that's
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 2: so divisive and ugly. And that's one of the things
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 2: I like about the Taylor Swift-Kelsey story is it's actually,
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 2: to me, showed a lot of unity. I was at
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 2: the game when the Chiefs came to Foxborough this year,
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 2: to Gillette Stadium, and Taylor Swift came to the stadium.
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 2: And she hasn't special place in New England. She played
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 2: her first live stadium show ever at Gillette Stadium in
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 2: New England. Patriots fans, New England fans connect with Taylor
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 2: in a different way because of that. She played three
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 2: shows there this year. She played her rain show there.
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 2: Did the fans boo her? No, I knew they wouldn't
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 2: do that. Like when, when they showed Taylor Swift on
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 2: the big screen in the stadium, she's there to root
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 2: for the other team and the Patriots fans were cheering
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 2: for her. Like to me, that's a great storyline in sports. Yeah.
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 1: And it's such a nice crossover. I mean, listen, I
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 1: am now watching football when Kansas city comes on and
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 1: my daughter has, you know, the Jersey and she gets
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 1: so excited and she's not playing roadblocks. She's playing these
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 1: football games now. her computer and she knows all about
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 1: it and she knows the players and she's so excited.
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 1: And I love that. And, you know, to see, and
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 1: I know you'd know this, to see the excitement on
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 1: your child's face in the stadium, watching Taylor Swift perform
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 1: is like no other feeling, you know, to see how
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 1: excited your kid is about something. And so I think
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 1: of all people that could be involved in a very
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 1: male driven sport, Taylor really crossed the bridge there. And,
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 1: and it's, phenomenal. It's so fun. I'm excited to watch
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 1: this Sunday.
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 2: I'm so glad you brought that up because here's a
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 2: story that most of your viewers won't know and it's
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 2: really cool. When the Chiefs came to Foxboro this year
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 2: to play the Patriots, Robert Kraft actually gave Taylor Swift
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 2: a gift. They created a ticket from the very first
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 2: show that she played at the stadium way back at
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 2: the beginning of her career. And they presented it to
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 2: her while she was at the stadium rooting against the Patriots.
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 2: And that kind of, I think, when you asked the
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 2: question earlier about Robert Kraft and how he's different, there's
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 2: a whole entertainment side of him that people don't recognize either,
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 2: like his relationship with Taylor Swift, the Rolling Stones, all
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 2: these different like Bono and Elton John. I mean, he's
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 2: built like real relationships with all of these entertainers because
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 2: he has brought them all to Foxborough, Massachusetts, not Boston,
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 2: not Boston, not New York, Foxborough, you know? And, and
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 2: I think it's just, it's part of that bigger thing
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 2: that the Patriots have done over the last 20 years. Yeah.
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 1: What's your favorite sports movie?
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 2: My favorite sports books would be easier to tell you.
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 2: But movie, I would say, gosh, I'd have to really
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 2: think about that.
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 1: Well, like Jerry Maguire, Air, Moneyball, Rudy, For Love of
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 1: the Game. I don't know.
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 2: I would probably say, I mean, I liked all those games.
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 2: Error was hilarious, but I wouldn't call it my favorite
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 2: sports movie. Jerry Maguire is probably top three for me.
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 2: If you're going sports genre, I'd put Jerry Maguire top three.
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 2: I love the movie that Robert Redford made, and I'm
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 2: forgetting the name, many years ago, where he was a
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 2: baseball player.
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 1: If you build it, he will come, or the Bull
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 1: Durham one?
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 2: Well, no, that was Kevin Costner. Oh, sorry. Sorry. I
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 2: like that one too. I like Tin Cup. I like
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 2: Bull Durham.
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Okay.
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 1: What was your favorite book that you ever wrote out
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 1: of all of them?
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 2: Wrote? Yeah. Do you have a favorite? Yeah. I don't know.
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 2: I mean, the experiences are different with all of them
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 2: and my career has changed a lot over the years.
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 2: Like there were some books I wrote in the very
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 2: beginning of my career when I didn't have much of
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 2: a career and those books are, Pretty near and dear
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 2: to me, like Without Reservation, Little Pink House. Yeah. Those
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 2: books mean a lot to me. And they always will.
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 2: I think Dynasty will always be right up there just
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 2: because it was something I wanted to do for so long.
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 2: And I finally got to do it. And it means
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 2: something deep to me, you know, and Steve Young, just
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 2: because Steve Young was someone that was like a. He
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 2: was a role model of mine when I was a
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 2: kid and but I'd never met Steve until the day
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 2: I literally had never talked to Steve in my life
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 2: until the day he asked me over the phone if
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 2: I would consider writing his book with him. And I
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 2: was in my mid to late 40s. And I was
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 2: like having a role model call me up and ask
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 2: me to do that was I couldn't believe it because
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 2: I had so much respect for him as a man.
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 2: And so that one, the Dynasty. Without Reservation, Little Pink House.
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 2: Those are probably four of my favorites. Yeah.
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 1: And you took me to one of the screenings, I think,
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 1: of Little Pink House. And it was such a phenomenal movie.
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 1: You know, people should definitely get the movie, get the book, whatever.
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 1: Totally different topic. But, you know, you write about true life.
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 1: that have happened to people. And, you know, again, kind
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 1: of this underdog story that is just, it's really emotional
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 1: and phenomenal. And if people don't know that story, it's
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 1: something they should know about, you know? So I loved that.
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 2: I loved Catherine Keener's portrayal of Suzette Kelo was dynamite.
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 2: It was like, again, when I think about things I've
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 2: got to do to be able to work with Catherine
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 2: Keener on a movie was incredible. You know, it really was.
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 1: And that was so fun, too, because I had so
• 1:24:43
  Speaker 1: many questions after. I remember being like, are they still together? And,
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 1: you know, I'm getting to ask you all these intimate
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 1: things on the side that you only you would know.
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 1: So I loved going to that. All right. So you
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 1: said you have something in development that you can't talk about.
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 1: Is there anything in development that you can talk about?
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 2: Not really. I have I mean, I'm working on a
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 2: book right now that I've started a year ago. And
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 2: it's one like the dynasty that I've wanted to do
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 2: for a very, very, very long time. Very meaningful to
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 2: me personally. And and I have a another television show
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 2: in the works, but it's not something that I can
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 2: talk about yet because that's up to the streamer.
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 1: OK, no problem.
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 1: So where can people find you if they want to
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 1: look up any of your books or more about you?
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 2: I'm on my website is Jeff Benedict dot com, which
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 2: is really easy. It's got everything there. I'm author Jeff
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 2: on Twitter and author Jeff Benedict on Instagram. Both both
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 2: of those sites have a lot about me. But my
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 2: books are, you know, my books are available everywhere. Amazon,
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 2: Barnes and Noble, you know, all the dynasty and LeBron
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 2: and Tiger and those others are, you know, on any
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 2: any platform that sells books should have them.
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 1: And if you guys liked what you heard here or
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 1: you're interested in trying them out or reading them yourself
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 1: or getting them as a gift, by the way, they're
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 1: gorgeous books. The covers of them are some of my
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 1: favorite books I've ever seen. And they're amazing. Everybody should
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 1: try them out. Thank you so much again, Jeff, for
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 1: being here with me. I really appreciate you. Oh, and
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 1: the Dynasty comes out on Apple on February 16th, correct?
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 2: That's right.
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 1: Okay, so everybody should watch it there. I'm sure everybody
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 1: is already very excited. When I put on my social
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 1: media that I was even having you on, I got
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 1: a plethora of DMs.
• 1:26:43
  Speaker 2: Wait, what?
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 1: Oh my God, I can't wait to see this. I'm
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 1: so excited. So I will be texting you that night.
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 1: I can't wait to see how people receive it and
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 1: how it does. But good luck to you. I really
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 1: appreciate you.
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for listening to Misunderstood. I'm your host,
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 1: Rachel Yucatel. Please be sure to subscribe to the show
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 1: and give us a five-star rating and review. You can
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 1: support the show by joining our Patreon at patreon.com slash
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 1: misunderstood with Rachel Yucatel. Do you have ideas for the
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 1: show or want to reach out? Email us at infomisunderstoodpodcast
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 1: at gmail.com. That's spelled M-I-S-S understood. Thank you so much,
• 1:27:33
  Speaker 1: and I'll see you next time.
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 3: The car is beautiful. Where did you end up going
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 3: for it?
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 4: This exclusive place that Dad has connections with. They have
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 4: more cars for more dealerships than like anywhere else.
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 3: You have to put me in touch. What's it called?
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 5: It's Dunaidial.
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 2: Where?
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 3: Dunaidial.
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 5: There's an accent on the E.
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 3: Do you mean.
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 5: Yes, I got it on Dundale Cars.
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 2: Lift?
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 3: Please. Are you going past Kimmage?
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 5: Oh, Kimmage.
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 1: No.
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 5: Dundale Cars.
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 4: You couldn't possibly go anywhere else.