Latest / Booked On Rock with Eric Senich / John Lee Hooker Jr's Journey: Music, Addiction, and Redemption [Episode 253]

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John Lee Hooker Jr's Journey: Music, Addiction, and Redemption [Episode 253] · Booked On Rock with Eric Senich

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: We're totally boomed rock and roll.
• 0:04
  Speaker 2: I mean gotta leave you. You're reading little hands this.
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: It's time to rock and roll, Rock bad, roll out.
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: I totally booked.
• 0:15
  Speaker 3: Welcome back to book Don Rock the podcast for those
• 0:18
  Speaker 3: about to read and rock online. A booked on rock
• 0:21
  Speaker 3: dot Com every episode in both audio and video. Exclusive
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  Speaker 3: video highlights from episodes, a blog the latest rockbook releases,
• 0:29
  Speaker 3: and check out the all new booked on rock store
• 0:31
  Speaker 3: at Booked on rock dot Com. Our guest is John
• 0:34
  Speaker 3: Lee Hooker Junior. He's got a book out titled From
• 0:38
  Speaker 3: the Shadow of the Blues, My Story of music, addiction
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  Speaker 3: and Redemption. The son of blues legend John Lee Hooker,
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  Speaker 3: best known for hit songs like Boogie Chillin', I'm in
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  Speaker 3: the Mood in Boom Boom. John Lee Hooker Junior was
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  Speaker 3: born in Detroit and exposed to the music world from
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  Speaker 3: an early age, singing as a featured attraction in its
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  Speaker 3: father's shows. As a teenager, in nineteen seventy two, he
• 0:59
  Speaker 3: and his father performed live and recorded an album in
• 1:02
  Speaker 3: Soladad prison. Junior seemed to have a golden ticket to
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  Speaker 3: a successful music career, but trouble brood his father's marriage
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  Speaker 3: was in trouble and the family was ripped apart. Drug
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  Speaker 3: addiction and a series of related crimes, including as a
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  Speaker 3: con player, landed Junior in and out of jails and prisons,
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  Speaker 3: including the infamous San Quentin for three decades, shot, stabbed,
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  Speaker 3: and convicted multiple times. Junior was at his lowest point
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  Speaker 3: doing time at a Santa Rita jail, but he emerged
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  Speaker 3: clean and sober and began a successful career as a
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  Speaker 3: blues singer, earning two Grammy nominations and even opening for
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  Speaker 3: the Rolling Stones. The life of a blues musician had
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  Speaker 3: its rewards, but also its perils, and in twenty nineteen,
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  Speaker 3: Junior decided to devote himself fully to his faith. Today,
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  Speaker 3: Reverend John Lee Hooker Junior testifies, preaches, and performs gospel
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  Speaker 3: music in churches and prisons across the US and Germany.
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  Speaker 3: The playlist of John Lee Hooker Junior is in this
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  Speaker 3: episode show Notes. John Lee. I cannot thank you enough
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  Speaker 3: for being here.
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: Thank you for I really appreciate your invite, so thank
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: you for having me.
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  Speaker 3: Thank you for the book too. Because we chatted a
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: little bit before we started recording. I feel like this
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: came along in a good time for myself and just
• 2:12
  Speaker 3: looking at the big picture of life, and it's that
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: big word of surrender. We all try to have complete
• 2:18
  Speaker 3: control over all aspects of life, and you can't do that.
• 2:21
  Speaker 3: You got to surrender to the higher power, right exactly. Well,
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: we're recording this just three days before the release of
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: the book, which is February fourth. You've told your story
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: to churches and prisons around the country in Germany. How
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: does it feel to be able to share this story
• 2:35
  Speaker 3: now with the world through your book.
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: It is the ultimate answer to prayer. It is phenomenal
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: because now I'm able to share my story in a
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  Speaker 2: different language, in German language, to prisoners. Or went to
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: the women's prison here in Vector, and I went to
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  Speaker 2: the large prison in Humfield, in the small prison in
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  Speaker 2: full Up. So it's a great feeling. And I just
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  Speaker 2: thank God for the platform because on the platforms I
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  Speaker 2: can just tell what Jesus had done for my life.
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  Speaker 2: My life was a wreck. My life I'm not supposed
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  Speaker 2: to be here from my perspectives, especially from others, even
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  Speaker 2: my parents. Well, we don't think you're going to be
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: alive when you turn twenty three. And I wrote a
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  Speaker 2: song about that as well. But here I am telling
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  Speaker 2: my story interview after interview, church after churches, going back
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: to America and preaching testify and four churches there. I
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: will be going to four prisons in Alaska in May
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: on that tour. So it's just a blessing to go
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  Speaker 2: you through all the world and tell them about Jesus.
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: That's what I do.
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  Speaker 3: And the great thing about a book is it's going
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  Speaker 3: to live on after us, so it's there for people
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  Speaker 3: to read in the future. Let's go back to the past,
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: go back to the early beginnings. Your dad. He was
• 4:13
  Speaker 3: born in Mississippi Delta, into a family of sharecroppers. He
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  Speaker 3: left home as a teen to try to make it
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  Speaker 3: as a musician. He went to Memphis and to Cincinnati
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  Speaker 3: and under Detroit, where I believe you were born. And
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  Speaker 3: his first hit record, Boogie Chillin, was in forty eight.
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  Speaker 3: He became more famous in sixty two with the song
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  Speaker 3: Boom Boom, More money comes his way. Yeah, but he
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  Speaker 3: was far from living the wealthy lifestyle of a famous musician.
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  Speaker 3: You say the record companies took advantage of your dad.
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  Speaker 2: You know, when you are growing up, you don't notice
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  Speaker 2: those kind of things. But after you mature and you're reading,
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  Speaker 2: and your dad is ready to talk to you about
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  Speaker 2: things that are very important and to teach you from
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  Speaker 2: his mistakes, or not only his mistakes, but what people
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  Speaker 2: had done to him. And it was like one of
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: those warnings, and this is what you don't do, and
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  Speaker 2: this is what you do going forward in your career.
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  Speaker 2: I was taught to always do things by paperwork, no
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  Speaker 2: shaking hands, no matter how they look and how they
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  Speaker 2: smile and how they laugh and what they may have.
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  Speaker 2: Get it on paper. And that was about it. Get
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  Speaker 2: it on paper. You know. The scriptures teach that out
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  Speaker 2: of the mouth of two let every word be established.
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  Speaker 2: Make sure you and he went there, make sure you
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  Speaker 2: got a witness. And I lived by that, and I
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  Speaker 2: haven't had any problems because I lived by the contract.
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: I lived by two or more witnesses. And yeah, I
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: watched him get, not get, but I've learned that he
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: was burned by a lot of people who he thought
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: there were his friends. But long story short, he got retribution.
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  Speaker 2: Got retribution. He sued companies, and I would ask him,
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  Speaker 2: why do you keep pouring all this money into this lawyer.
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  Speaker 2: It's been three years. He said, it takes time, but
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  Speaker 2: we're going to get him, and he got him.
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  Speaker 3: He got him.
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  Speaker 2: So he had to change his name several times because
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: my dad was he didn't know how to read or write,
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  Speaker 2: and I would oftentimes read his contract and say, disci
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  Speaker 2: when here is okay, and yeah this makes sense, and
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: yeah it's okay to sign right here. Yeah, we were partners,
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  Speaker 2: just like you and your dad. I took care of him,
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: and he especially took care of me, burning Bestman VJ Records.
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  Speaker 2: So many record companies had tried or did burn him.
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  Speaker 2: His setbacks became his mantle to go forward. He learned
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  Speaker 2: from his mistakes and taught us what to do and
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  Speaker 2: what not to do.
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  Speaker 3: You mentioned my dad, We were talking about that too.
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  Speaker 3: My dad was a broadcast and a writer, and he
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  Speaker 3: was very similar to the relationship you had with your
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  Speaker 3: dad or just anything. We had so much in common.
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  Speaker 3: We were like best friends as much as father's son.
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  Speaker 3: And when he passed it it still is to this day.
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  Speaker 3: Think about him every day. But what's great with your
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  Speaker 3: story is that not only did he have a resurgence
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  Speaker 3: towards the end, but he saw you recover. And this
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  Speaker 3: is a great story. So we want to get to
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  Speaker 3: this now. You were born in Detroit nineteen fifty two,
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  Speaker 3: and you say that eventually you turn to drugs to
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  Speaker 3: escape the pain and hurt in your family. You dealt
• 7:33
  Speaker 3: with racism early on, which sure was difficult. It was
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  Speaker 3: also hard to see your dad leave for the road.
• 7:38
  Speaker 3: He was on the road a lot. But you later
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  Speaker 3: write about your mom's relationship with a neighbor, Bo Collins,
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  Speaker 3: that was the trauma that sent you down the path
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  Speaker 3: to drugs, and that really feels like the devil was
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  Speaker 3: at work there, like he managed to infiltrate your family
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  Speaker 3: through this neighbor. It affected everybody. Can you take us
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  Speaker 3: back to that time and how difficult that was for you?
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  Speaker 2: Oh? Well, you know, I didn't learn of the infidelity
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  Speaker 2: until I was ten, ten eleven. But my dad would leave.
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  Speaker 2: This gentleman would show up like he was the cat
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  Speaker 2: with the feathers hanging out his mouth. I don't kill birds,
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  Speaker 2: but he was a wolve in sheep's clothing. Let me
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  Speaker 2: just put it that away. That hurt. As a young boy,
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  Speaker 2: you recognize that something is wrong because you know two
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  Speaker 2: people who are say their husband and husband and wife,
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  Speaker 2: especially your mom and your dad, something is not right here,
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  Speaker 2: And when I would protest, I would be chestised physically,
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  Speaker 2: and that hurt. Then to watch my dad leave and
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  Speaker 2: to know that the big bad wolf is coming as
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  Speaker 2: soon as he disappears, that hurt. And I think I
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: became a little violent because when I would walk past
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  Speaker 2: the door to where I know they were, I would
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  Speaker 2: hit it so hard and walk or not walk, but
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  Speaker 2: run downstairs. And it was as if I was hitting him,
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  Speaker 2: you know, hitting him. And I noticed that I would
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  Speaker 2: say a curse word like damn, you know bow, and
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  Speaker 2: it damaged me. It damaged me. It damaged me to
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  Speaker 2: whereas I didn't have my dad there to say, June
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  Speaker 2: is it's late, You're not going outside? And my mom
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  Speaker 2: wasn't there to tell me. She told me before she left,
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  Speaker 2: don't go there, and don't go out and come back
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  Speaker 2: and blah blah blah. But I had to get away
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  Speaker 2: because I didn't like where I was living and I
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  Speaker 2: I didn't like what I was feeling and seeing. And
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  Speaker 2: there became the drugs. It was like a song I wrote.
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  Speaker 2: I put the the drugs and alcohol was like a
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  Speaker 2: band aid over a bullet wound. It stayed there for
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  Speaker 2: a while, but when the drugs left or the feeling left,
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  Speaker 2: I began to bleed again. So there was trauma. Then
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  Speaker 2: I I saw people shooting through our front doors. Got
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: by the name of Billy. Just violence, physical violence in
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  Speaker 2: my house between my mom and my dad. But he
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  Speaker 2: never fought back. He just just like defense, you know,
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  Speaker 2: and sometimes defense you can get hurt. And I watched
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  Speaker 2: him get hurt. That broke my heart. It broke my
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  Speaker 2: heart to see him go on tour often.
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  Speaker 1: And how long was he on the road for.
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  Speaker 3: I was going to ask you that it must have
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  Speaker 3: been most of the year.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, sometimes for a month, sometimes for three weeks. I
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: mean two weeks seemed like two months to me. And
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: I would hold his suits and cry, and they'd have
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: to pull me off of him because when he said
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: he was going, oh no, oh no, no, no, I'll
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: be back, I'll be back. Yeah. She would explain that
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: it's very important that I go so the bills can
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  Speaker 2: be paid.
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  Speaker 3: But at that age, how do you process that you're
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  Speaker 3: not really understanding any of it.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, And one thing led to another, the cigarettes, the
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: alcohol skipping school. I think you might read in there
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  Speaker 2: where a skip school. Liven just to get some drugs.
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  Speaker 2: I even came back and broke in my school and
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: came back again and broke into it, and that's when
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: I was arrested. And that led to the center on
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  Speaker 2: the cult that they flew me to as opposed to
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: sending me to prison for the first time. I violated that.
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: I violated that twice and then they finally sent me
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  Speaker 2: to prison at the age of eighteen, eighteen or nineteen
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: years old, and a lot of stuff. Heerd a lot
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: of stuff. I saw my friend not in see it,
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: but I knew my friend same age as I was. Seventeen.
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: We were in the county jail. He was raped. That
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  Speaker 2: broke my heart. I was raped, and I believe I
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: was at no I went to court the following morning.
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  Speaker 2: But the grapevine coming through the court wounds and whatnot
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: is the whispers and the whispers and the whispers. Yeah,
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: Shorty did this to Henry. So I see Henry on
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: our way to courtner did he see? Yeah? And I
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: was about to cry, I'm a kid, I'm a kid.
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: The same guy, his name was Shorty, came into my
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  Speaker 2: cell with the razor blade airing and grabbed me. Here
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: instincts instincts grabbed him and threw him up on the
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  Speaker 2: top bunk, pull him back down. I was just kidding,
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: but I was ready to die. I was ready to die.
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: I was ready to die. I was already so hurt
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: because when you're a youngster in jail, you want to
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: be with youngsters and it's like a commonality and a camaraderie,
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: you know, yeah, us, you know, because you have something
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  Speaker 2: in common. And to hear about this man doing this
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: to another man, this older man doing this to another man,
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: broke my heart. So I got all of this stuff
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  Speaker 2: from home, now all of this stuff in jail.
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: And wow, yeah, that story's in the book.
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  Speaker 2: Yes, sir, I look, I look. I look back, and
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: sometime sometime I tear up, but I look and see
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: where God has brought me from. That is that part along,
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: is to know that there was an attorney that asked
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: my sister, no as my sid so how's your brother?
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: He represented me day every time I got called him. Larry, Larry.
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: Larry called the attorney and he didn't see me for
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: a while, and he asked my sister, where's your brother?
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  Speaker 2: She says, you wouldn't believe it. Junior is a minister
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: now and he and first thing he says, surely there's
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: a God up above. Now that's what I say to myself.
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  Speaker 2: I knew you. I didn't know it then, but now
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  Speaker 2: I know that you was carrying me.
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  Speaker 3: Do you ever wonder why? Because some aren't fortunate enough
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  Speaker 3: to survive that, some their lives are lost before they
• 14:51
  Speaker 3: can learn that. You ever wonder why, I, you know,
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: giving that gift to be able to have that time
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: to turn my life around. And then you have friends
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: that you know I'm sure, yes, yeah.
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: Just last year, two of my friends gone as a
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: direct result of the drug addiction. I don't know what
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: was in the mind of God, why he chose me,
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: or why he didn't choose those people. But I know
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: that I was a willing vessel. I know that I
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: was a willing vessel. I used to walk. I used
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: to do all my dirty work and drugs over in
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: the Tenderloin in San Francisco, and at times when I
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: was just down. And now because my family says, uh
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: uh no, don't come here. We can't trust you. We
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: don't know where who you are. I used to walk
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: the backstreet and it's a song called he Walked the
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: backstreet and cried. I actually walked down those alleys and
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: cried and looked up to heaven and said, Lord, if
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: you're up there and you and hear me, take this
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: thing that's gotten me all messed up, Please take this
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: away from me. And he did.
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: Podcast we'll be back after this.
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: We're going to take a break, can't be back.
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: Was there a moment, because there's always I've seen it
• 16:21
  Speaker 3: happen with people I know where addiction starts fairly innocently
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: or seemingly harmless. Set a party, high school party or
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: junior high party, and they try something out, maybe out
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: of curiosity or peer pressure, and all of a sudden,
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: it's years long, sometimes decades long, lifelong addiction. Was there
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: a moment for you when you look back and say, boy,
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: that was that was the moment I knew I was
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: in trouble.
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it wasn't when I took my
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: first sniff of cocaine. It wasn't that. It was when
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: I first stuck and stuck a needle in my arm.
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: I had somebody stick the needle because I didn't know how.
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: But after a while I became addicted, and I knew
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: that I didn't have the money in my pocket to
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: feed or to get rid of the sickness that I had,
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: and all of a sudden, there was the dog in me.
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: I would steal from family friends. I once tried to
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: rob a blind man it's in the book. And the
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: blind man beat us up. He beat us up. But
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: it's the dog, it's the fiend. That's when I knew
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: that I was in trouble, especially when I didn't come home.
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: That's when I knew something is wrong.
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and physically, that's the withdrawals, right, that's.
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: Ca yeah, yeah, and it is. It's terrible. It's terrible.
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: Your bones, your nose, the bowels, the fever, the shakes
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: and everything. You be like, oh my goods. I mean,
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: you watched Doctor Jekyl and mister Hyde. You watch the
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: Werewolf the guy turned Bella Lagosi turn into the werewolf.
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: That's that's theater. But that's real in terms of a
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: drug addict, in terms of a crack addict, in terms
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: of a cocaine addict, in terms of any type of
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: addic it's something inside. And you know they call liquor spirits,
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: but it really is the spirit of the devil. Because
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: I had been to twenty five. I don't know so
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: many drug programs, Like I said, even caught. I want
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: so many programs out, psychiatrists, doctors, everything, rehabilitation centers. Nothing
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: could help me, nothing, change of environments, nothing could help
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: me until the lady said. One day when I was
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: on my way to prison, reluctantly, I went over with
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: the gang members to the church because they was trying
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: to get maybe they can meet a girl and a lady,
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: just little small. But she says, if you are tired
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: of being tired, and you're tired of drugs, if you're
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: tired of being homeless, if you're if you just sick
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: or tired, I know a man that can break those chains.
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: I know we can. And she said, if you believe.
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: And his name is Jesus says, she says, and if
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: you believe that he can. Got to be willing, and
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: all the gang members did, Red Card, Dave Rubbert, Dug,
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: all the big shots and big us. I got up
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: there with tears in my eyes, and she said, what's
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: your name? I said, John Lee. She said, brother John,
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: raise your hands in surrender. And I raised my hands
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: with tears coming down, and she led me to the Lord.
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: That's the word surrender.
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: Though.
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: Boy, it's a one little word, but it's so difficult,
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: so difficult. I think you have to get to that point, oh,
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: to surrender exactly. Yeah, my mom is listening to this,
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: I'm sure because she always listens to her son's podcast,
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: and she's got me the Bible for Christmas and this.
• 20:41
  Speaker 3: I'm sure she's smiling listened to all of this because
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: she's always telling me about this. Yeah, you have to
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: you have to just put your you gotta put your
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: trust in God because in Christ, because you can't control everything.
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: No, Jesus said, it's going to happen.
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: Jesus said in John fifteen five, I am the vine,
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: and you are the branches the vine. Apart from the branches.
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: Without me, you can't do nothing. And I know that
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: as a as a fact, that I can't do nothing
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: without him. As a song says, without him, I am
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: nothing without him. I would fail without him. I am rugged.
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: I'm like a ship without a sail. And before I left,
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: before I left America, my late pastor told me, he says,
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: wherever you do, always make sure that Jesus Christ is
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: the center of your life. And that's what I live
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: by him being the center, him being the center of
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: my everything.
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: One of the things I try to explain to to
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: my mom and folks like her. She comes from an
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: era where she grew up, she didn't drink or do drugs,
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: and she really doesn't understand why would you go to it?
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: And I think one story, I think I've told her
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: this before. The comedian already laying I remember once talked
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: about when he did heroin for the first time, it
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: felt so good.
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: He knew I'm screwed.
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: I am screwed, because that's the That's something important to
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: remember because that's when all the problems go away for
• 22:17
  Speaker 3: an hour, two hours, maybe three hours. Like I used
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: to go out drinking every weekend and I felt great
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: to three hours. Then you wake up the next day
• 22:26
  Speaker 3: and you're hungover, and now you gotta go back, and
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: you gotta wait until the next weekend comes around so
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: you can do again. Around and around you go. But
• 22:35
  Speaker 3: that is important to remember, is that the the temptation
• 22:39
  Speaker 3: is it is an escape. It is a band aid.
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: As you say, it's that's that's the evil trying to
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: pull you in, like this is gonna feel real good.
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: Just do it.
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: Same thing he told Adam and Eve right, you won't die.
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: He knows that the day that you eat of that apple,
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: that you're going to be just like him. And that
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: side is, oh, you can shoot some drug, you can
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: take some drugs. You feel good. Oh he was right.
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: I do feel good after effects. Later on down the line.
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: You talk about breaking into the school that you were seventeen,
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: and can you talk about why you did that? You
• 23:17
  Speaker 3: were stealing something to sell it, I believe, right, wasn't
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: that the story?
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: Okay? Well, I had case to place out because I
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: was in class and I noticed that when and that's
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: when they came out with the what do you call
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: the IBM with the balls round the round tapper, and
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: the alarm was two little magnets up at the door
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: and back. Then all you had to do was just
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: turn the lock on the top of the window. Turned
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: the top of the window, and I turned it and
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: made sure that it was unlocked it and eleven eleven thirty,
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: late at night, I came back. I knew that the
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: alarm would go off, and I climbed through the door,
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: climbed through the window, took the typewriters, pulled them down
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: by the cord let them drop. It took two and
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: ran to my little raggedy car and threw them in
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: the back seat and drove off. But here's what happened,
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: is that I came back again, thinking that I can
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: get away, and I came back again, but this time
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: they were waiting on me. So the alarm was a
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: silent alarm. It was they didn't nothing, none of that.
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: It was a silent alarm. And that was what deceived me.
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: That's what deceived me, because there was a silent alarm.
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: And when I pulled those typewriters back down there and
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: climbed out the window, Podice said, don't move. That's what happened. Yeah,
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: to get to get loaded, to feed the monkey that
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: was on my back, to feed that dog, that gorilla
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: that was on my back. And I'm a young man.
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: I'm a young man. I'm young, and I'm it's crazy.
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: There's a story in the book of when your dad
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: heard you singing for the first time. This is in
• 25:19
  Speaker 3: seventy one, your roommates with him. Was there ever a
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: point before that when you fow wow wow?
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: Was a point before that though, where you had a
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: desire to be a musician? Did you have any idea
• 25:30
  Speaker 3: that you had inherited your dad's skills?
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: You always you know your your your aunties and uncles.
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: Always you're gonna be just like your dad. And it's
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: always that that that desire because he used to sneak me.
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: Not sneak me, but he used to always take me
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: through the stage room door. And now you can't come
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: out here. You stay right there, because I used to
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: cry if I didn't go with him and him you
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: just stay right here now. And I peep through the
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: curtain and watch him and people are just smiling and
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: laughing and dancing and what not, and uh, just watching
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: him do what he did. Uh. Yeah. In one day,
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: I was in the bathtub, like like you mentioned, we
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: were roommates and I had start singing in the bathtub
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: and he heard me, and I can do I can
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: make my voice go here and I can make it roll.
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: I did it kind of like immature at that particular time,
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: but he hurt the potential. He heard the potential and
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: he said, why you could sing? Jo? Boy you were saying,
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: and I ain't joking, you could.
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: Say, boy.
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: He had a stunt of your dad.
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: He called his people say I heard that boy and
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: say that. I say, joja yeah. And one day I
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: think we were at the Keystone Corner in Palo Alto
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: and I he had flew me in again because I
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: was still on parole in Michigan, and he flew me
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: in and first time he said, I want to I
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: want to introduce my son on stage. And he would
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: tell Gino who was the bass player, Luther Tucker. He said,
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: y'all back Junior up now. He first time carrying. I
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: don't know what he meant by car what do you
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: mean by carrying me? And got on stage and for
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: the first time, I'm like, look at all these people.
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: And I had to look over at Luther Luther Tucker.
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: And when he would like that there, that meant that
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: it was my turn start singing. So I started singing.
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: When Luther did this here, I started singing. And uh,
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: after I got off stage, Uh, it sounded like the
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: people didn't clap their hands, they didn't give me a
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: wrong replut. So I felt really bad. That's been wrong
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: to a product. But that was my training, and uh,
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: one thing led to another, and on the field training
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: helped me. And uh, just listening to him sometime we
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: would be in his in the like I said. We
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: were roommates and I would be in uh we would
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: uh uh play And he just just work with me,
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: work with me, and don't no no no no no
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: no no no go do he said, but do you do?
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: You you hear it down down? Bet, I say, I.
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: Got it boy, And he had. He must have had
• 28:59
  Speaker 3: some great stories to tell you from his early days.
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: That's the thing with music to me is that's coming
• 29:07
  Speaker 3: from somewhere up above. To me, I can't imagine a
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: life without music. I am not a musician. I don't
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: have that ability. But what music does for me, it's
• 29:17
  Speaker 3: like I can get through any day if music's there.
• 29:19
  Speaker 3: And I would think that you agree with that, Like,
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: where does it come from? It's like a god given gift. Music.
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: It is, it is, it is music. I know music
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: came from heaven because David was a musician. Angels are
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: singing and Scrucius make a joyful noise unto the Lord.
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: I will singing to the Lord. And so yeah, music
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: came from heaven. Yeah, and you inspired inspired people to sing.
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: Podcast. We'll be back after this.
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: Oh, here's new way to the future. Did the horizon
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: never his mind on there be was.
• 30:10
  Speaker 3: Who were your favorite musicians growing up?
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: Well, I came up in the jazz. My dad was
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: the blues, and I came up jazz, cannon Ball, Adelie,
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: John Coletrane, Miles Davis and as a young kid, I
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: was listening to that. And the first thing I learned
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: was how to how to scat, and that was with
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: Louis Armstrong and and Sammy Davis Junior. So I learned
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: how to scat. Algiero Algiero was a was a scat man.
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: Then you had scatman's brothers. I don't know if you
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: ever heard you.
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: Can googleman's brothers.
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: So I grew up Gil Scott, Herron Gil Scott. So
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: I grew up on these guys. Those were the original rappers.
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: And I learned how to put words together, and most
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: of my songs I wrote all of my songs, with
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: the exception of being co written by my friend Larry Baptiste.
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: But I knew how to put words together and to
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: make them mean something. And my dad was a storyteller.
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: His most often didn't rhyme. You just tell the story
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: and he puts some your ma and put people. And
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: then sometime he grow Wow. My music I was able
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: to put together, make it rhyme, and make it mean something.
• 31:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you toured with your dad. Every show, every city
• 31:44
  Speaker 3: sold out. You opened with two or three songs right
• 31:47
  Speaker 3: to pump up the crowd about.
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: But you weren't enjoying yourself.
• 31:50
  Speaker 3: You sometimes cried in your room.
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: Looking back, Why do you think that.
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: Was because of I think you know my joy. My
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: joy was not a clean and sober joy. My joy
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: happened when I was under the influence. That's when I
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: had joy. My joy was when I had money in
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: my pocket, when I was loaded and I wasn't sick,
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: and I enjoyed myself. But I enjoyed myself because I
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: had a crutch. I had a crutch. That's the only
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: way I could enjoy myself. When I went to Canada
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: with them twenty seven days, I needed a crutch. I
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: found where the drugs were. I searched and found where
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: the drugs were. All have to do is ask, hey,
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: where do you smoke marijuana at around? He say they
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: are down there. If there was some marijuana, somebody knew
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: where some heroin was. Somebody knew where some cocaine was.
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: Somebody knew I needed to be fixed in order to function.
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: To function.
• 33:02
  Speaker 3: Chapter fourteen titled the Con in Detroit, I'm shot. This
• 33:05
  Speaker 3: is like a scene out of a movie, only it
• 33:07
  Speaker 3: really happened. Can you share this story.
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: I was a con artist, a manipulator, and I could
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: shake I don't have any cards here, but I could
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: shake cards. I can move the greasy pig. That's the
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: three tops with the three tops with the p They
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: called it the greasy pig because he's moving around. But anyway,
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: to make a long story short, I pretended I was
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: a great impersonator, and I knew that the day was
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: the first. And on the first there's a check that
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: most people get. It was called ADCD ADC checks, ADC checks,
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: and you kind of like knew where they cast checks at.
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: And here was a lady coming around the corner. I
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: think she had a child with her, and she had
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: a shopping bag, which was an indication that she had
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: been shopping. She got paid from her check, and I
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: stopped her. I had a fake roll of money like
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: this with a two dollar bill on it, but she
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: couldn't see that it was a two because I had
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: my hand like this. I had a money wrap that
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: said ten thousand that I got from the bank, and
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: I just flashed it on. I said, ma'am, have you
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: ever saw me do it? And to make a long
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: story short, I let her win. I let her win
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: twenty five dollars. I said, was that a lucky guess?
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: Or did you know all the time? Am I too fast?
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: Am I too slow? Or are you just that smart?
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: You're kind of slow. Anyway, I'm not going to go
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: through your holy elaboration. But she put up. I put up.
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: I put up the bank roll, but I wouldn't open
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: it up. I would tell her I bent the car.
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: I bent the card, accidentally dropped it so that she
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: could see that the bent car was red. So when
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: I challenged her, right with no money down, I challenged
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: her to find a red car. She turned the one
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: that was bent over. Huh, bet you to hold eight
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: hundred dollars right now, money on the wood. Make the
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: bet good. You got to put it up. She put
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: it up. I shook it. I made it act like
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: I made a mistake, dropped the red again so she
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: can see it, turned it back over. Shook and I'm
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: shaking double flash. But at the same time, when I
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: feel it I bend it. Here been another card, and
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: unbend the red. So now the black cart has bent
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: double flat, double flash, she said red. Did she see
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: another red? No, she said black, And she see another black.
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: So the one that's here right is a bent carter.
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: She turned over the car that she saw bent red.
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: She turned it over and she lost all of her money.
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: She said, please give me my money back. I said, ma'am,
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: you lost fair and square. And she started crying, and
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: she turned and went the other way, and I went
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: another way. I called a taxi on Jefferson and Mountclair.
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: Taxi jumped in the taxi. Here's how dumb I was.
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: I went and got my heroin and cocaine, and I
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: came back to the same place, same street, knocked on
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: the door so that I could shoot my dope, my
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: hair around and my cocaine. And I'm gonna spread because
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: I got money, big money. The guy I don't know
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: is I forget his name. He opens the door, but
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: he has this look on his face. And I walk
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: in and the guy from her husband comes from behind
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: the door, and he's got a thirty eight pistol. Give
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: me my wife money back, said man, I don't have
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: no money. To give me the money back I wouldn't
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: get and he shot me. Pow. I hit the floor,
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: and everybody like when I walked in, everybody is sitting
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: at the table just like this. And that's when he
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: came back, give me the and he shot me. Pow.
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: I fill and I crawled into a corner, said meil,
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: what are you doing? He said, give me the money
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: back or I'm gonna blow your brains out. So he
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: put the gun to my head and I'm covering like this.
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: I said, I swear to God, I don't have no money.
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: Do you think I would die over two of you
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: hundred dollars? My life is more. And he pulled the
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: trigger back and then put it back in and hit me.
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: And I still have the scar right there. And he
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: hit me over the head. He's trying to bust open
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: my head, but I had my hands right here and
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: he broke his hand and he said, to kill you. Now.
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: He's afraid now that because the loud gunshot. So he leaves.
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: What do I do? I get up because I still
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: got the drugs and I got all the money in
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: my back pocket. That's how dumb I was. I leave
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: that particular room and go next door, shoot my drugs
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: right and have them called nine one one. They called
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: the ambulance. I jump in the ambulance and they take
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: me to the hospital receiving the hospital in Detroit. And
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: that's how that went. But it was just I did
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: dumb things. He could have killed me.
• 39:00
  Speaker 3: But yeah, I was gonna say, even with your life
• 39:02
  Speaker 3: right there that moment, I'm gonna die right here. You
• 39:05
  Speaker 3: still didn't say, here you go, here's the money, right
• 39:08
  Speaker 3: still stubbornly say no, no, yeah.
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: And I tell people when I tell that story, I said,
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: I know God just did like this here. Yeah. Wow.
• 39:19
  Speaker 3: Well I would have thought that was the rock bottom moment,
• 39:21
  Speaker 3: but that was yet to come. That you were shot,
• 39:23
  Speaker 3: you were stabbed, convicted multiple times, But it wasn't until
• 39:26
  Speaker 3: you were at Santa Rita jail you hit rock bottom,
• 39:28
  Speaker 3: finally found your faith in ultimate recovery. What was that
• 39:31
  Speaker 3: rock bottom moment for you?
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: That rock bottom is? I mean, you've been homeless, you
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: done cried in the back of the streets. You know,
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: you can't call nobody that in your family. Hey, I
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: need not we heard that before you are We don't
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: know who you are anymore. We can't trust you. Nope,
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: So I couldn't call anybody. And then I was arrested
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: because I played the con game on a priest coming
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: from church, Catholic priest, and I pretended to be this
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: month from South Africa, and I had a letter signed
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: by Bishop Toutou, and I had the African South African
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: staff in the corner. Make a long story shortest in
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: the book. I knew the scripture says, your mama will
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: attest to this. Here God said, touch not mine annointed,
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: and do my profits no harm. Jesus said these words,
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: woe unto him who shall offend one of these little ones.
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: For he would rather a milestone tied around his neck
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: and cast into the sea than to offend one of
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: my little ones. Right, I broke this priest that was
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: on his way to the bank. I knew, I knew,
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: I knew, I knew. I knew that I was gonna
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: get caught one day, And sure enough, when they arrested me,
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: I didn't even complain. I didn't even complain. And that's
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: when I met Sister Yancey, and that's when my whole
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: life turned around. Don't get me wrong, I failed three
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: four times and I always quote the scripture because it
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: just applies. It's applicable to me, because it says that
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: a righteous man falls seven times and rises up again.
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't give up because I hated and Paul said
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: that the things that I wanted to do, that was good.
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: He said, I didn't do it, but that what I hated.
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: That's what I did, and that's what it was with me.
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: I hated what I did. I hated what I did,
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: but I had to do it.
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: Book Rock Podcast will be back after this well waiting.
• 41:58
  Speaker 3: Johnny Hooker Jr. Our guest is look Tired from the
• 42:00
  Speaker 3: Shadow of the Blues, my story of music, addiction and redemption,
• 42:03
  Speaker 3: and it is out this week. I think it's important
• 42:06
  Speaker 3: to talk about your setbacks because many addicts can give
• 42:09
  Speaker 3: up after they go back at some point, so this
• 42:12
  Speaker 3: is important. This happened three times for you after getting
• 42:15
  Speaker 3: sober in nineteen ninety eight. How did you manage to
• 42:17
  Speaker 3: get back on your feet that third and final time.
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: Well it might have been three and a half.
• 42:22
  Speaker 3: Four yeah, more than Okay.
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: There's a saying, and your mom and other people that's
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: listening to it might remember that when you're level with
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: the dirt. There's no other place to go. And I
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: want to say this here that I was conscious. I
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: was aware that if I died, that I was going
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: straight to hell. I knew that. I knew that. I
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: knew that. But there is a saying that when through
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: man's extremity is one God stretch out his hand to
• 42:59
  Speaker 2: give you an opportunity, and his word says, I will
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: not always strive with man. God's not going to keep
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: on putting his hand out. And I took that opportunity.
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: I says, Lord, I don't want to do this anymore.
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: And I was at rock bottom. And guess what I did.
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: I called somebody who birthed me. Mom, where you been
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: in the streets. In the streets, all right, take a
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: taxi and knock on the church door when you get here.
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: And there was Mama, There was my mom. Everybody else
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: we don't my dad, nobody else but my mother said
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: come on. And I was sleeping in the back of
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: the taxi because I'd been up three days. And the
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: man says, sir, you're here, walked to the church door,
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: looked at in mother, hooker. Here here's you come. Paid
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: the taxi man forty five dollars. She lived next door
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: to the church. Go in there and get cleaned up
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: and put these clothes off. I think it was my niece.
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: She's a big girl. And put on my niece big
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: old shorts. And there was a sling shot and there
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: was a shirt, and I took a shower and went.
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: So she made me a sandwich. I'm going back to church,
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: and laid a blanket out with a pillow, and I
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: was gone, and the rest is history. I never looked back.
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: I never looked back. She nursed me back to health man.
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: And what year was that?
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: About two thousand something like that, two thousand.
• 44:49
  Speaker 3: Well, we know, did all this happen before your dad
• 44:52
  Speaker 3: passed away?
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: So he was able to get my dad.
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: That's huge, you know, that's yeah my dad.
• 44:57
  Speaker 3: Did you what about your mom?
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: When did your mom.
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: Pass She passed nine years ago.
• 45:04
  Speaker 3: Okay, so she was able to also experience your recovery.
• 45:07
  Speaker 3: Then she oh, yeah, oh that's great. Is that right?
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: Here is what they here's what my desk. He said.
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: You know what I want is before I go is
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: to see you clean and sober. My mother came to
• 45:22
  Speaker 2: my ordination because she used to always come to court
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: and watch them send me a prison or visit me
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: in the hospital. My mother came to my ordination and
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: watched me get ordain as a as a minister. And
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: my dad used to always happily announce my coming. Reverend Jr.
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: Is on his way and when I come in, and
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: sometime i'd have my collar on. Remend Junior, I go,
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: come on, come on and have a seaboy, tell me
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: about Jesus.
• 45:59
  Speaker 3: Well, I don't think you could even understate how important
• 46:02
  Speaker 3: that must be for you, the piece that you have
• 46:04
  Speaker 3: knowing your mom and dad, you know you had, you
• 46:07
  Speaker 3: had that completion with him before they moved on. Yes,
• 46:11
  Speaker 3: before they passed on and went to heaven, they were
• 46:14
  Speaker 3: able to see their son. Yes, he's okay, he's my mom.
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: I gotta tell you this quick story. My mom was
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: so proud.
• 46:24
  Speaker 3: Right, I'm getting goosebumps here, Johny just think my mom.
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: My mom told me one time, boy, look at you,
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: Reverend Junior. You remember back when you as a young man,
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: You remember you ran off with the rent money And
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: I'd say, yeah, Mom, but now that bought you a home.
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: That's all your Don't get smart with.
• 46:47
  Speaker 3: Me, Oh man, I love it. I just it's an
• 46:53
  Speaker 3: outstanding story. And then you had a one on one
• 46:54
  Speaker 3: with your dad where he encouraged you to pursue a
• 46:57
  Speaker 3: music career.
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and like I said, he gave me all the ropes,
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: came to something. He came to Not only did he
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: come to prison and do a show with me, he
• 47:11
  Speaker 2: came to prison to do a show with me, but
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: he used to come to my couple of my events
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: and just sit there and didn't say, didn't see, just
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: make sure the place was filled up, and then he
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: would leave. He would leave. Then sometimes you wouldn't even
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: know he was there because he did want people, you know,
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: taking the focus off of me and putting it onto him.
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: So he just come in look and tell.
• 47:40
  Speaker 3: Don't tell incognito, you incognito.
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: But he's so recognizable.
• 47:45
  Speaker 3: Let's say, how did he do that? He have to
• 47:47
  Speaker 3: wear record hat and sunglasses.
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: And you had, sorry, that big hat and sunglasses and
• 47:54
  Speaker 2: you're though.
• 47:59
  Speaker 3: At your first album, Blues with a Vengeance. By the way,
• 48:02
  Speaker 3: I put together a playlist of your music so people
• 48:04
  Speaker 3: can click the link on the show notes. It's just
• 48:07
  Speaker 3: great stuff. I was listening to it as I was
• 48:09
  Speaker 3: reading the book and preparing the questions, So give it
• 48:11
  Speaker 3: a listen. Your first album, Blues Are a Vengeance, released
• 48:14
  Speaker 3: in two thousand and four, nominated for a Grammy Award
• 48:17
  Speaker 3: and won the WC Handy Award for Debut Artist. Your
• 48:20
  Speaker 3: third album, All Odds Against Me, released in two thousand
• 48:23
  Speaker 3: and eight, also received a Grammy nomination. So a Grammy,
• 48:26
  Speaker 3: a Grammy win is coming. I know. Talk about the
• 48:28
  Speaker 3: songs that you write. You don't sing about money, women
• 48:31
  Speaker 3: and wine. Those are the usual blues quit that subjects.
• 48:34
  Speaker 3: So your lyrics are about your faith.
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: Yep. My producer, my co writer who arranges my music said, John,
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: I call me brother Rare, brother Rare. I would if
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: I was, I would just keep You got a unique sound.
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: Even my dad say, nobody's got your sound. You are?
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: Do you original? You know? Then you got some haters
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: that say the only reason this is that is because
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: its name is. But when you come to realize the
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: Grammys only deal with authenticity, that the Academy only want originals.
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: They don't take no cop You can't even sound like
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: a little bit about somebody without you know what I mean.
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: And so I was nominated the first time and uh
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: four yeah, four years later nominated again, and I just
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: I just love to write. I got a song coming
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: up that's going to be released in May, and it's
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: called Heaven Rules. You can say it's rap, but what
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: it really is is me preaching and doing some singing.
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: Heaven Rules with a background of about well they three four.
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: They put three layers of a choir behind it. Make
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: it sound like it's.
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: Fifteen people when it's that come out.
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: That comes out in May. With the video, I'm gonna
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: make sure that I sent it to you all.
• 50:06
  Speaker 3: Well, I've got your email so you could respond to
• 50:09
  Speaker 3: mine and send it to.
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: You.
• 50:14
  Speaker 3: Got you got a fan here. Podcasts will be back
• 50:18
  Speaker 3: after this. Now you wait here, I'll be right back.
• 50:23
  Speaker 3: Let's finish with a great story, the story of you
• 50:26
  Speaker 3: praying with Keith Richards of the Rolling Stones.
• 50:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so the Rolling Stones, they're their own boss can't
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: tell them, but uh, you can also offer them some
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: or offer them choices. Well, we got these people here
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: that are available. I would love to think I would
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: love to think that they say, well take Junior Hooker. Anyway,
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: I received a phone call from my manager, Ron Kramer,
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: because we were about to go and do a European tour.
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: My European band lived in Berlin, and they asked me
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: to stop over in Austria with my guitar player and
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: open up for the Rolling Stone. You gotta be because
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: I got a picture of my dad, right and Keith
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: Richards in my photo album, right. So I took that
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: picture out of make sure, I put it in my
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: little briefcase and accepted it and went on stage, came
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: back and got something to eat. So we're standing in
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: the cafeteria and someone walks up and said, mister hooker,
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: Keith Richards would like to talk to you. Really, I
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: mean I want. I wasn't going to say can I
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: meet him? Can I? Because I don't do that. I
• 51:54
  Speaker 2: know some people say, you mean you didn't go and
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: knock on the door. No, I just it's just something
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: about me that I just you know, I just didn't
• 52:03
  Speaker 2: if you if if you walked past me like Lenny
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: Kravis did, Lenny Cravis walked.
• 52:10
  Speaker 4: Hey, Lenny, Hey, John Junior. Can we get a picture.
• 52:17
  Speaker 4: But I'm not going to say knock on your door?
• 52:20
  Speaker 4: And so go on, And they escorted me, but come on,
• 52:24
  Speaker 4: my guitar play? Can I get my guitar? Come on, man,
• 52:29
  Speaker 4: you get Tar went over to his place. He was
• 52:32
  Speaker 4: fitched in. Can't get in there. This is in Austria.
• 52:36
  Speaker 4: We went in and Keith when he saw me, he.
• 52:39
  Speaker 5: Looked, bye, Joe, it's junior. Hoo good, this is John's boy, Connie.
• 52:49
  Speaker 5: You look just like your dad.
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: And he was so playful that I was not accustomed
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: to it because he was hug Oh my goodness, and
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: it just made me laugh because I've heard.
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: That about him.
• 53:11
  Speaker 3: He's very down to earth.
• 53:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. He told stories about him and my dad.
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: And I remember the jacuzie right through the sliding door
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: right there in the middle. Yeah, I was there and
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: John planning the guitar and I'm singing, and just a
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: lot of great stories. I showed him the photo of
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: him and my dad. I remember that, just like I
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: can remember my right hand. As a matter of fact,
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: there's a couch just like that. And incidentally, it was
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: a couch just like the one him and my father
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: were sitting. And cameras are flash of we post. So
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: now it's time for us to go. And I asked
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: Keith before I left, Keith, is it okay? If I prayed?
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: Were you before we look? And he read back, you know,
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: what Jr. By Jove, I need prayer, and we all
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: everybody in the room. My guitar player, Jeffrey James, he
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: put down, he quit talking because he wanted prayer also,
• 54:18
  Speaker 2: and help everybody's hands. And I'm praying. I'm praying in
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: the spirit of God, in the name of Jesus. And
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: I can feel Keith. He's just looking at me because
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: I look up and I talk to God and I
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: have to see Keith looking at it, just looking finished,
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: praying and left out. And he says, By Jove Jr.
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much for that. And your dad. I
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: loved your dad. He was my friend. Nobody liked your dad,
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: he says, he says. And listen, JR. If I ever,
• 54:56
  Speaker 2: if we ever want to need you again, I know
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: where to find you at. And that's in prison.
• 55:09
  Speaker 3: Key's gotten himself into some trouble in the past.
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: Oh my goodness. We bust up labor.
• 55:17
  Speaker 3: From the Shadow of the Blues, my story of music,
• 55:19
  Speaker 3: addiction and redemption. It's out on February fourth. You can
• 55:22
  Speaker 3: find it wherever books are sold. Now. I know you
• 55:25
  Speaker 3: have a website, but you can tell people about it.
• 55:26
  Speaker 3: Where can people find you online?
• 55:29
  Speaker 2: Exactly follow me on Facebook, follow me on Twitter, Instagram. Www.
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: John Leehooker Junior dot com. If you drop the Junior
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: you'll get my dad's website. It's foundation, no problem. But
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: if you would like to speak with me, look what
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: we have online, our music, our catalog. It'll show you
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: how to order the book with four distributors. And if
• 55:59
  Speaker 2: you need to leave me a message, or have some
• 56:02
  Speaker 2: questions or just want to chat, go click on ministry
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: and you can type a letter to me and I'll
• 56:09
  Speaker 2: tack you right back.
• 56:11
  Speaker 3: That's outstanding.
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: This.
• 56:12
  Speaker 3: I can't recommend this book enough to people just as
• 56:15
  Speaker 3: fans of music, but also just from a spiritual sense.
• 56:18
  Speaker 3: If you are in a position where you really need
• 56:21
  Speaker 3: some encouragement, this is the book to read. John Lee
• 56:24
  Speaker 3: Hooker Junior. Thank you so much.
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: Thank you Eric, what a professional interviewer you are. You
• 56:30
  Speaker 2: made me feel just so relaxed. And tell your mom
• 56:34
  Speaker 2: God bless her.
• 56:36
  Speaker 3: Yes, and I'm sure my dad's listening listening down as
• 56:39
  Speaker 3: we speak. He's smiling, so thank you, and you're so
• 56:42
  Speaker 3: is your dad.
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: Thanks God bless you.
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: Start. That's it.
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: It's in the books.