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Interview with Earl Thomas: What AI Can’t Replace - The Power of Human Connection · The Inspired Speaker Network

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Your travels have brought you to the Surfing
0:11
Your Edge podcast, where we explore what it
0:14
takes to create the bigger, bolder, badass life
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you know you were born for.
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Not a life that simply looks good on
0:21
paper, and not another spin on the self
0:24
-help hamster wheel.
0:26
If you're ready for more joy, more peace,
0:28
and more contribution, you're in the right place.
0:32
I'm Kristine Goad, the Surfing Your Edge coach.
0:35
Let's get surfing.
0:37
Hello, and welcome to another episode of Surfing
0:40
Your Edge.
0:41
I am here today with my very first
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guest for the show.
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Her name is Jennifer Britton, and I think
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you're going to love her.
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Jennifer is an award-winning author, coach, educator,
0:52
and founder of Potentials Realized, where she's spent
0:55
more than 20 years working with leaders, coaches,
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teams, and entrepreneurs worldwide.
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She's a pioneer in group and team coaching,
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and has written eight books.
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She's about to release a brand-new book
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called FlowFlex Scale, Nine Catalysts for Thriving as
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a Solopreneur.
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And drawing on her early leadership work with
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the United Nations and decades as an entrepreneur,
1:17
Jennifer brings a fascinating perspective on the future
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of work, human connection, sustainable growth, and creating
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meaningful impact.
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I hope you love our conversation.
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Let's get surfing.
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Okay, I am so excited to have Jennifer
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with me today.
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Jennifer Britton, you are one of my little
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heroes, and you don't even know it.
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Well, thank you.
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Thank you for being here today.
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This is actually going to be our first
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in-depth, one-on-one conversation.
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We've been in many Zoom rooms together, and
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we've followed each other through those rooms and
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groups we've contributed to.
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But this is my first time having you
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all to myself.
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I'm excited, Kristine.
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I know from your work and our conversations
2:07
just how important the work is that you're
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doing right now, and helping the world, helping
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all of us surf our edges.
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Certainly, we're in a moment where our ability
2:18
to do that, to sort of stretch out
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and get out of our comfort zone is
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key.
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And I'm really looking forward to sitting down
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and, yeah, having a conversation, because I think
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there's a lot of adventures we can Zoom
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into today.
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There absolutely are.
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So I just read your super impressive bio
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to everyone.
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And as we just discussed, you and I,
2:44
off-camera, you started your business on April
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Fool's Day in 2004.
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So you have a deep business experience to
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pull from, and I want to talk to
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you about that today.
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But I also want to talk to you
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about your personal mission on the planet, and
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why you're here, and what might be shifting
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for you.
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I love it.
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Love it.
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I hope everyone's ready to buckle in for
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some stories, because I come from a long
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lineage of storytellers, actually.
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Oral historians, as my grandmother was known for.
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And she lived till the ripe old age
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of 99.
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So in my mid-years, I'm hoping there'll
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be many more books and oral stories to
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come out from my mouth.
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Awesome.
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Do you want to tell us about the
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current book that you're writing?
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I'm sorry.
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The book that's written and about to be
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birthed.
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So, well, I have two.
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So as a writer, so, you know, a
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little bit, you heard my bio, right?
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I'm a woman.
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I guess in today's world, we call them
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my multi-hyphenate, right?
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That is the current term.
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I think of myself as a multidisciplinary.
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And so I always have multiple projects on
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the go.
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And so coming out this, in the next
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month or so, depending on when you're listening.
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So let's call it sort of late summer,
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early fall, 2026.
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FlowFlex Skill, the Solopreneurial Operating System for Business
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Growth and Momentum is coming out.
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This is a book that has been six
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years in the making, actually.
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It's gone through many iterations.
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I first started penning it in July of
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2020 as part of an annual, well, you
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know this, but I'll share this with your
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guests.
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I write every July for 72 hours with
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a group of about 50 other writers.
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We do 72 hours of nonstop writing for
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adult literacy.
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And so my 2020 manuscript that came out
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that year was what is now FlowFlex Skill.
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But in those days, it was called Drovepreneur
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for digital, remote, online, virtual entrepreneurs.
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And literally the title stopped me.
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So there were other books that came out.
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And I just didn't know what to call
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this body of work.
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And about 18 months ago in the business
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coaching work that I do, it became really
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apparent because we'd started these conversations in 2017.
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But it was like, there's really nine areas.
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So like, why not bundle them as FlowFlex
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Skill?
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So here it is a year after that
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major sort of shift, which I hope we'll
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sort of talk about that.
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Because I think as seasoned professionals, as new
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professionals, we're always iterating, right?
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The world is always asking for something new.
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So with that, let me turn it back
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to you.
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As you can see, I'm a seasoned podcaster,
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so I love talking.
5:32
So back to you, Kristine.
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So you mentioned that the world is always
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shifting.
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And it's interesting to me that you started
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this particular book in 2020 when the world
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was undergoing a major shift.
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And I was one of those people that
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was really hoping we would harness what we
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learned in that time to create a slightly
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different world together as humans.
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And I don't think we did.
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I think we just pushed play again, and
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we went right back as fast as possible
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to where we had been before.
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And here we are in 2026, and I
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feel like we are revisiting several of those
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themes again.
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And the world is changing rapidly.
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We are finding powers, I think, becoming ever
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more concentrated in fewer and fewer hands.
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And that power is not necessarily working to
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benefit all life on this planet.
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And people are starting to feel, I think,
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less and less secure in their lives and
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in the decisions they're making.
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And I'm feeling like many of us are
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kind of holding on, right?
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We're going to wait this out.
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We waited out COVID.
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Now let's wait it out.
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And it's really interesting.
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So I'll put a couple of pieces on
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the table, right?
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Because your guests may or may not know
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this about me.
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So two things.
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One, I'm currently working on a new book.
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So the next book is actually about coaching
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for the future of work.
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So for the last few months, I spent
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a lot of time looking at the research
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and looking at these emerging trends.
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The second data set I think that is
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important is my former work, right, what I
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did before starting this business in 2004.
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And that was really working, as you know,
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in the field of international development and helping
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countries articulate and realize their potential, right?
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That's why I call my business Potentials Realized,
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because that's been the body of my work
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since the early 1990s.
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And, you know, I have a master's in
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environmental studies.
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So you and I have sometimes connected around
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this.
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And I think, you know, my research work
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as a master's student was all about grassroots
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development.
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So as much as I think people are
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stuck right now, I think we also see
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glimmers of hope at the grassroots.
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And I don't think even in moments like
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this, you know, and we certainly saw this
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in 2020, you know, the grassroots movements will
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always catch a fire, right?
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Fire is my future self in coaching.
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And I think there's reason for that, because
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I think I do see a lot of
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embers, whether it's here in Canada, whether it's
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around the world with my connections.
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I see there, yes, there are definite moments
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of stuckness, but I also see some really
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interesting community-based movements.
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And I feel lucky, you know, it's summer,
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I've had the chance to work out of
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sort of my little village in the world.
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It's a community of 300 people.
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And it's where my great great, my great
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grandmother was born in the 1880s.
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And, you know, having that stability in place
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and space for me is really critical, like,
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and my body knows it, right?
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Like, my pulse rate has dropped 10 beats
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a minute for the last six weeks.
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As soon as I get on the land,
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like, my body knows and whatever is happening
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in the world.
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And this has been consistent my entire life,
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right?
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Even when I was working globally, I would
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come back to Canada.
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I usually have a month off or six
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weeks and I would literally land, go to
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my parents' house and then say, okay, we're
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going north.
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And I would spend all my time up
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north and then go back to the airport
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and fly off to my duty station.
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And people would be like, you must have
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had a really good time away.
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And it's like, yeah, and it's like, literally
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the place in the world that I can
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get grounded.
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So I share that because I think with
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whatever is happening in the world, and my
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former work was rebuilding countries post-natural disaster,
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post-volcanic activity, post-hurricane.
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You know, these are really significant seismic transformations.
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And it's, you know, we need to say
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that.
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We can't step over the shifts.
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And when people are ready, I think then
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that's where my work comes in.
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How do we envision again?
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How do we dream?
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How do we think about what's possible?
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And then what do we do?
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Even in micro steps.
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And that brings us back to FlowFlexSkill because
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FlowFlexSkill is about daily steps, consistent action, creating
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momentum.
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It's not these huge leaps, right?
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We might think it's a leap.
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But if we look at it backwards, it's
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these little pieces done consistently that really start
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moving the needle in good times and in
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disruption.
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Okay.
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I'm throwing my questions away.
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We can go on.
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We can go to questions.
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We can go to whatever.
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What am I sparking in you?
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No, well, just a whole bunch.
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One is I have three threads, I think.
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My original thread was I'd like us to
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discuss whether or not times of change are
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a good time for us to change.
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You know, I think I know you know
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what my answer is there.
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You just then talked about ways to keep
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yourself grounded and taking small steps.
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And then is there a third?
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I think there's a third, but I'm going
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to hold on to that.
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So I'm just going to say straight out
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that I think that when everything is changing,
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that's a great time to change everything.
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Right.
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And a lot of us, it might feel
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like we can hold on and wait and
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things will go back to normal.
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And then we can take some steps that
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might feel uncertain.
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I would probably caution that that's not the
12:04
right step to take to hold on.
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What do you think?
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Such a great question.
12:10
You know, I think there's a couple layers
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to this.
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There's the personal, there's the professional, there's the
12:16
societal.
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Right.
12:17
And I think depending on where you are
12:20
in the world, there's a cultural layer to
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this as well.
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So, you know, I can only speak from
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my own experience.
12:25
But I think in moments of change.
12:27
Right.
12:27
It is if we are holding too tightly
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onto the past, are we open to what
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door or doorways are opening for the future?
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And that's not easy.
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Right.
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I personally, I know myself, I have always
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been on the front end of change, whether
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it's technological change, whether it's, you know, and
12:48
I think really it's technological change that has
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shaped my career.
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I remember vividly the day that the Internet
12:54
came in and, you know, I was managing
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over a hundred staff and volunteers from four
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countries in, you know, really in South America.
13:05
And they were working in the north end
13:06
of the Amazon.
13:07
Our connection every day was by long range
13:10
radio.
13:11
Our radio would go on and you think
13:13
about those old mash radios.
13:15
Right.
13:15
If you think about the old mash TV
13:17
show, they used to have the radio guy.
13:20
Right.
13:20
And so our radio would go on at
13:23
dawn at like five thirty in the morning
13:25
and it would run until dusk about seven
13:28
o'clock at night.
13:29
And that was a lifeline of connecting to
13:30
these project teams.
13:32
So I share it because right.
13:35
Like, what are the lifelines and what are
13:36
we listening for?
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And and, you know, if we're not if
13:40
we're too stuck in in the past, what
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happens?
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And so disruption happened with the Internet prior
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to the Internet.
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You know, everything was done by long range
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radio.
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My headquarters was here in Canada.
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I'm like thousands of miles away.
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And, you know.
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The facts literally disappeared overnight.
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We used to send out emails from the
14:04
capital city.
14:05
It would sit on a server at the
14:07
University of the West Indies in Trinidad, and
14:10
then it would be released to the rest
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of the world.
14:12
This is like six months of my life,
14:15
but it saved us thousands of dollars.
14:17
All of a sudden we had money that
14:18
we could do things for a project.
14:20
Right.
14:21
So I say this because when things change,
14:24
right, like new capacities become available, there's new
14:27
things that are available.
14:30
And I also know as a leader, how
14:33
many people find change really hard, whether it
14:35
is technologically induced change, whether it's societal change.
14:39
And so, again, how do we create environments
14:41
where people feel like they are ready to
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move?
14:44
I think that's another piece of this puzzle.
14:46
And that's the role of leadership, hopefully the
14:50
role of leadership.
14:51
And it also ties in really well to
14:53
what we were talking about in terms of
14:55
grounding and how to take the small steps
14:58
like if change is scary for you and
15:01
it's it's scary for everyone.
15:03
But I think some of us are a
15:09
little more tied into the the possibilities that
15:13
come with change.
15:14
But if but regardless of where you are
15:16
with your fear level around change, you said
15:20
coming back to the land is one of
15:22
the ways that you ground and regenerate and
15:25
feel comfortable and confident and remember who you
15:27
are.
15:28
Do you have any other suggestions for things
15:31
you've seen work or things you've tried?
15:34
So, again, I think journaling is an amazing
15:37
one.
15:37
For years, I journaled every night.
15:41
I have a box, literally a huge, big
15:44
box, a red plastic tub of my my
15:47
memoirs.
15:47
They will be my memoirs, right?
15:49
Like of almost 15 years of journaling nightly,
15:54
sometimes by candlelight, because it was a blackout.
15:57
There was no power in the entire country
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and I would have my candles going.
16:03
So, you know, I think journaling is a
16:06
way to slow us down because in times
16:09
of change and times of fear, what happens?
16:12
Our brains start to race.
16:14
How do we slow it down to start
16:16
making sense of the world?
16:18
Right?
16:18
Part of change is also about creating a
16:21
new language for ourselves, creating a new mental
16:23
framework for how we see the world.
16:25
How we perceive the world, how we see
16:27
ourselves in the world.
16:28
And so as a writer, right, this is
16:31
where I think stories are really important.
16:33
I think connections and conversations are really important.
16:37
You know, as much as I talk about
16:38
being on the land, like I am very
16:41
still at my age, I'm very deeply connected
16:43
to to nature.
16:45
Right.
16:45
It's for me, it's about community and nature.
16:48
And that's when I'm happiest, whether I'm, you
16:50
know, out walking or out like this morning,
16:54
you know, getting back to the gym and
16:55
people like, we haven't seen you in a
16:57
few days.
16:57
They're like, you're looking good.
17:00
And it's like, yeah, I feel really good
17:02
because I'm able to follow my own rhythms.
17:04
So, like, I think in addition to getting
17:07
grounded, journaling, you know, like, what are your
17:10
rhythms?
17:10
And part of FlowFlexSkill is really about helping
17:14
people start discerning what is their natural rhythm.
17:16
In my family, you know, I am the
17:19
early bird.
17:20
My son is a night owl.
17:22
He's 21 now, but like, it's really interesting
17:26
in our household, two night owls and an
17:29
early bird, like, we operate in different times
17:33
of the day as a family.
17:35
And then there are moments when we come
17:36
together as well, which, how do we also
17:40
allow for difference and distinction?
17:43
And I think that's part of today's struggle,
17:45
right?
17:46
Is, you know, maybe not an appreciation of
17:49
just how unique everyone really is and our
17:52
unique rhythms and needs, right?
17:57
So I sort of am sharing my story,
17:59
but this could be very different.
18:01
I know my pathway has been very different
18:03
from others.
18:04
And so what I'm sharing might not necessarily
18:07
turn people's crank.
18:08
So I'd invite your listeners to think, you
18:10
know, what is the thing that gets you
18:12
grounded, regardless of where you are, what you're
18:15
doing?
18:15
It might be doing dishes, right?
18:19
It might be playing the piano.
18:21
It might be going out for a walk.
18:25
So many things we can do.
18:26
Yeah.
18:27
And I think one of the shifts that
18:29
technology and the way work is moving is
18:34
that we are now more able than ever
18:39
to probably follow more of our own rhythms,
18:42
to create our own rhythms and create a
18:46
life that feels good to us and doesn't
18:48
necessarily fit into a mold that someone else
18:50
handed us.
18:52
Yeah.
18:53
And I think back to sort of where
18:54
you were pointing us a few minutes ago,
18:56
Kristine, of like, you know, what has changed?
19:00
What hasn't changed?
19:01
Like, like you said, you know, in 2019,
19:03
I launched my first podcast.
19:05
It was called the Remote Pathways Podcast.
19:08
I had put a stake in the ground
19:09
in 2019 saying, we are going to be
19:12
shifting everything we do.
19:14
It was, you know, late 2018, I put
19:17
out a book called Plan, Do, Track.
19:19
It was for virtual and remote professionals.
19:21
The year before, my traditional publisher had said,
19:24
not interested in your next book, Jen.
19:26
It was called Effective Virtual Conversations.
19:29
Like, the world isn't virtual.
19:31
We're not interested.
19:32
And I was like, well, I think the
19:34
world is.
19:34
And so I started my own media house,
19:37
right?
19:37
Like, and it was like, it was a
19:40
quiet success until the pandemic.
19:42
And, you know, I really, as an advocate
19:45
for remote work, flex work, I do still
19:48
feel and we are seeing pockets in the
19:51
world where, you know, flexibility is, is happening,
19:55
whether it's because of economics, whether it's because
19:59
of even places like Toronto, people have refused
20:02
to go back to the office because they
20:04
can't commute, right?
20:05
Like, you're gonna get me to come in
20:06
for, you know, commute three hours a day
20:08
to come into an office space where there
20:10
is no space because you sold part of
20:12
the landscape.
20:13
It's, it's a really interesting sort of moment.
20:17
And I think we have the, the voice
20:20
of the community.
20:21
And we also have the voice of leadership.
20:23
And sometimes there is alignment.
20:26
Sometimes there's not, but that's part of the
20:29
role of the leader.
20:30
How does the leader listen?
20:33
And how does the leader bring people together
20:36
to affect change?
20:38
Yeah.
20:39
So the theme, I think we're for, for
20:44
the conversation we're having today is a little
20:46
bit about reinvention and reimagining.
20:50
And I'd like to talk to you about
20:52
where you are in your business.
20:56
And this year, in particular, what do you
21:00
feel is shifting for you?
21:03
What isn't shifting?
21:04
Like, I think, as a small business owner
21:06
of many, many years now, like, AI has
21:09
been such an interesting disruptor, if we go
21:13
back to that terminology.
21:14
And I think it's creating opportunities.
21:17
It's also creating massive changes.
21:20
Like, you know, I, I work, I write
21:22
in the area of coaching, right?
21:24
It's been a big part of my life,
21:27
seeing the industry get born, you know, see
21:30
it grow, see it automate.
21:31
And there's a moment where it's looking to
21:33
how do we find the feet, you know,
21:35
like, what are what is what does coaching
21:37
look like in the new world?
21:39
And it's interesting, because again, we can, I
21:41
think one of the one of the most
21:43
interesting things right now is, and to invention,
21:48
reinvention, re-envisioning, I think we also want
21:51
to watch out for like the echo chambers
21:53
we find ourselves in.
21:55
And one of the appreciations I have, and
21:58
this is probably why I like to move
21:59
around so much and physically, like working out
22:02
of different spaces is because every time I
22:06
shift, I become very aware of the lens
22:09
of the perspectives of the voices in that
22:12
space.
22:13
And so it helps me question and challenge,
22:17
like, I, you know, I'm a critical educator
22:19
by training.
22:20
So it's part of my, it's part of
22:21
the work that I do in the world.
22:23
But it helps me look at, like, is
22:25
this an assumption?
22:26
Or is this like the truth?
22:28
And is this a perspective?
22:30
Or is this my perspective?
22:32
And so to come back to, like, what
22:35
is changing in the business world?
22:36
Like, so much is changing right now.
22:38
And in one space that I work out
22:41
of, it's very AI enabled, right?
22:44
In other spaces, I work in supporting teams,
22:47
you know, like, teams have embraced AI, they
22:51
get frustrated with what's happening with AI.
22:54
Other teams are like, we're not doing that
22:56
at all.
22:56
And so as a coach, it's a really
22:58
interesting moment to sort of say, what is
23:01
going to happen?
23:03
So even yesterday, I had an invite from
23:06
an entity, and they wanted me to come
23:09
and speak.
23:10
And I said, Well, is it important to
23:12
talk about what is happening in the industry?
23:15
Because we now have court cases, right, that
23:17
there has actually been legislation passed of what
23:20
happens in AI enabled landscapes.
23:25
And it is really interesting for the profession
23:28
where, you know, whether it's therapy, or whether
23:31
it's coaching, how many people have just jumped
23:33
on the bandwagon of like, oh, yeah, we're
23:36
going to do this.
23:37
And there now have been court cases, which
23:39
have set precedence to show that you have
23:42
a responsibility to ensure confidentiality.
23:46
If you're saying we're providing confidential spaces, you
23:49
have a responsibility.
23:50
So it's, it's shakeups like this that are
23:53
like, wow.
23:54
And so for me, you know, at 23
23:57
years into business, it's also a question of
24:00
where do I put my focus?
24:04
Three years ago this summer, it's almost three
24:06
years ago to the day that I moved
24:07
into this location.
24:09
And so my son had just gone off
24:14
to university, and let I let go of
24:17
the big house because I didn't want to
24:19
keep shoveling snow.
24:20
In the middle of winter, I was, you
24:23
know, like, my heart is always been up
24:25
north.
24:26
So I moved midway between there and the
24:29
cottage, and still wanted to be close enough
24:32
so that I could jump on a plane
24:33
anytime I wanted.
24:34
And of course, as soon as we moved,
24:36
the phone calls came back and said, we
24:39
need you back in the Caribbean.
24:40
And it was like, okay, I'll get on
24:43
that plane, not knowing sort of that first
24:45
plane ride, just how much that was going
24:48
to shift things.
24:49
But it also means like, how do you
24:52
keep all the plates spinning?
24:53
So back to your original question of reinvention,
24:56
you know, like, as the world changes, where
24:58
do I want to put my attention?
25:00
Do I want to keep doing what I've
25:01
been doing for 23 years?
25:03
And I think I'm really, you know, at
25:05
this stage, clear, like, I would love to
25:07
find a home.
25:08
Part of my 2026 goal this year is
25:10
to find a home for some of the
25:13
training that we've been doing.
25:14
You know, last year, I was approached for
25:16
a strategic acquisition of the business.
25:19
I'm not ready to let the whole business
25:20
go, but I'm ready to let parts of
25:22
the business go.
25:23
And in that time, it was not the
25:24
right fit.
25:25
But I do hope, and maybe your listeners
25:27
out there, I do hope that sometime in
25:30
the next 6 to 12 months, that actually,
25:32
I'm able to find a home for some
25:34
of my bodies of work so that they
25:36
can live on in other people's hands.
25:39
Because I don't know if we remain the
25:42
same person all our life, right?
25:44
I work in personal development and leadership development.
25:48
We can't stay the same.
25:50
And if we try to stay the same,
25:52
then, you know, are we holding ourselves back?
25:55
There's that sort of point of view too.
25:58
So I think from a business level, you
26:00
know, AI is creating opportunity on all ways,
26:04
whether it's about the human experience, experience in
26:08
AI-enabled spaces, or it's about the AI
26:10
experience in AI-enabled.
26:13
And I'm certainly in the camp of the
26:15
human, the human experience with potential, you know,
26:19
AI-human collaboration, because that's another interesting area.
26:23
But that's not group coaching, which I've been
26:25
so well known for over 20 years.
26:31
I'm wondering how, you know, when things are
26:37
shifting?
26:38
I mean, you're very clued in, obviously.
26:41
I'm very what?
26:42
Clued in?
26:42
Clued in.
26:44
Maybe some days, but we still have blind
26:46
spots, I would say.
26:48
But I think, you know, if I can
26:50
anticipate your question, is the question really like,
26:53
how do you know when things are shifting?
26:56
Yeah.
26:56
I love this question, because I think it's
26:59
gonna sound, it probably will sound maybe a
27:01
little bit more confident and clear than I've
27:08
been thinking, like, the last three years.
27:10
So back to the story of, like, reinventing
27:12
myself, it actually started three years ago, in
27:15
totally uprooting community.
27:17
You know, I'd lived in that community for
27:20
17 years, raising a family, left everything, left
27:24
all my habits, you know, moved here, and
27:28
totally different environment, like, different mix of people,
27:33
and had also transitioned my parents, who I
27:37
was a caretaker for.
27:38
They both were declining significantly in the pandemic,
27:42
and so much that we had to move
27:44
them into our house.
27:46
You know, my dad was going through his
27:49
final phase of life with stage four cancer,
27:52
and there was a lot going on.
27:55
So to many of the things that we've
27:57
talked about today, in terms of, you know,
27:59
finding your grounding, I had to practice what
28:02
I preached, right?
28:03
How did I find time to journal, to
28:05
reflect, to go outside, to remember that there's
28:08
a bigger, there's a bigger world, you know,
28:11
and I, you know, caretaking has been an
28:14
important part of my world, but it's very
28:16
easy to get sucked into as well.
28:18
And so, with this transition, and it's not
28:23
comfortable, right?
28:24
Like, I think anytime we do see people
28:27
who grow, there's the messy middle, right?
28:30
There's this, it's not even days, possibly not
28:34
even just weeks or months, it can be
28:36
years of like, churning, right?
28:38
It's not comfortable.
28:39
And I still think there are parts of
28:42
my continued evolution that aren't clear to me,
28:45
they're getting clearer every day, but there's a
28:48
lot of soul searching, and a lot of,
28:51
you know, reflection on who am I, what's
28:54
important to me, for me, as knowing my
28:58
strengths, like, legacy is always important.
29:02
I do that through writing, but even my
29:04
writing is changing, right?
29:05
It's even my readers are like, but this
29:08
book isn't just for coaches.
29:09
And it's like, no, it's not just for
29:11
coaches.
29:11
And you know what, for the last eight
29:13
years, I've not just written for coaches.
29:15
So it's taken eight years for even the
29:17
marketplace to recognize that shift, which I think,
29:22
you know, our identity, we see ourselves, and
29:25
then the world sees us as well.
29:28
And so how do we shift?
29:31
We may shift before the rest of the
29:33
world notices we've shifted to.
29:36
But it's not comfortable.
29:38
It's like, it's like the snake skin, right?
29:40
And I use that analogy, because there are
29:44
a lot of snakes where I am in
29:46
the summer.
29:47
And at least once a season, I'll see
29:51
the snake skin on the rocks, right?
29:54
Because the snakes live in the rocks.
29:56
And when I see that, it's just a
29:59
reminder, like, yeah, like, what needs to be
30:01
shed, but I don't think it's comfortable, right?
30:04
Like, I don't think a shake a snake
30:07
shedding its skin is probably a comfortable experience.
30:12
Yeah, I hear you on that.
30:14
And for my own transitions, recently, like starting
30:19
this podcast.
30:21
It started because a friend of mine who's
30:23
a voice coach and, you know, a speaking
30:26
coach came to me and said, I'm starting
30:28
a network.
30:29
I would really love you to podcast on
30:31
it.
30:31
Do you want to start a podcast?
30:33
We're starting in three weeks.
30:34
And I was like, Oh, sure.
30:39
It's something that's been, you know, percolating.
30:43
I've been doing live shows on Facebook for
30:46
years.
30:47
And I loved that.
30:48
But it was, you know, and it had
30:49
been occurring to me that I needed to
30:51
do it in a more planned and professional
30:53
way.
30:54
So it was the right thing.
30:56
Not sure it was the right, it didn't
30:58
feel like necessarily the right time, but it
31:00
was definitely the right offer.
31:01
And so I kind of have this vision
31:05
of it being like a magic carpet.
31:07
And instead of sitting on top of the
31:09
magic carpet and flying, I'm like, holding on
31:12
to the back end of pulling me through
31:15
the air.
31:17
What a great, what a great metaphor, you
31:19
know, and bring it back to vision, right?
31:21
Like, I think it's interesting that you talk
31:23
about the magic carpet ride, because a year
31:25
ago, 2020, I usually do business visioning work
31:30
in the spring.
31:31
And so it must have been 2024.
31:33
I had this vision, actually, of a magic
31:36
carpet ride, too.
31:37
But I wasn't, I wasn't hanging on the
31:39
back, but I was like, navigating on the
31:41
front.
31:42
And it's just interesting how, you know, our
31:45
roles also may shift.
31:47
And sometimes, you know, change is happening or
31:49
our identity is shifting so much, it does
31:51
feel like we're hanging on.
31:53
And I guess, in my work, it's always,
31:56
you know, what do you need to trust?
31:58
Right?
31:58
How do you trust that wherever this journey
32:01
is taking you, that it's going to be,
32:04
it's going to be a good ride?
32:06
Maybe not an easy ride, but it's gonna
32:09
be a good ride.
32:10
Right, right.
32:11
Yes, you will definitely learn something and find
32:14
yourself in a different place on the other
32:16
side.
32:16
Yeah.
32:17
And, and to, you know, one of the
32:20
other themes that's sort of emerging in our
32:22
conversation today is like, how are we with
32:24
learning?
32:24
Right?
32:25
Like, I think, in today's world, we have
32:28
to keep learning as well as we have
32:30
to keep challenging our assumptions.
32:32
Right?
32:33
To grow means we have to learn and
32:37
learning is not easy.
32:39
Learning is not neat.
32:41
Right?
32:42
To really learn something new, we have to
32:44
go back to beginner.
32:45
And I remember actually, 20 plus years ago,
32:48
become trained to be a coach.
32:49
And the first thing they would say is
32:50
like, just learn to be a beginner, you
32:52
know, beginner's mind.
32:54
But that's easier said than done.
32:56
Because you know what, to go back to
32:58
like kindergarten is, it's pretty darn messy.
33:02
And I've seen that, again, as a professional,
33:06
in even in my writing, you know, like
33:08
I am a new fiction writer, I won't
33:13
say new anymore, because I've now got four,
33:15
I'm working on like book four this Labor
33:18
Day in an intensive spurt.
33:20
But every time I write, they're getting better.
33:25
Right?
33:25
They're getting better.
33:26
And it's been a good reminder that, you
33:28
know, we can only learn something if we
33:31
do it.
33:32
And that too, is at the heart of
33:34
FlowFlex skill.
33:35
It's about the daily action, you got to
33:37
keep showing up, you got to keep pushing
33:39
yourself.
33:40
I saw it three years ago here, like
33:43
re-establishing my routines, I was like, what
33:45
do I want to need to do to
33:47
be healthy, happy, you know, I'd achieved everything
33:52
in my business, and I'd achieved the house
33:56
of my dreams.
33:57
You know, like where I live, it's gorgeous.
34:00
It's beautiful.
34:01
I saw this house, I wanted it for
34:05
like a year and a half, I rarely
34:07
want anything, right?
34:08
But this was like, I want to live
34:10
there.
34:11
And it just so happened a year and
34:13
a half later that I got I got
34:15
the property even at a lower price, which
34:18
was even better.
34:19
And, you know, like, I hadn't thought about,
34:23
well, what does it mean to live there?
34:25
Like, what do I need to be happy?
34:27
Because winters are isolating, right?
34:30
It's cold, it's isolating, it's on the lake,
34:33
which is beautiful.
34:34
But I'm a tropical girl, right?
34:36
Like, I love the 15 years I spent
34:39
in the tropics.
34:40
But we have to sometimes let things go.
34:43
And who's to say everything is going to
34:46
be forever.
34:48
I think some people want the forever.
34:50
I know for me, as my mother would
34:52
probably say, Jennifer, you're a Sagittarius, you love
34:55
adventure.
34:56
And I do.
34:56
I think the older I get, the more
34:58
I realize, if I don't have it, I'll
35:02
create it somehow.
35:04
Which leads me directly into my next question,
35:08
which is what is pulling you forward?
35:11
What adventure do you see teasing you over
35:14
the horizon?
35:17
Which theme do we put in the mix?
35:20
I think I think there's a lot, right?
35:21
So we're getting into that season change.
35:24
Part of the transition that started three, four
35:26
years ago was my vision that like, I
35:28
wanted to be working out of my three
35:30
B's all the time.
35:32
Where I live in the shoulder season, Baysville,
35:36
beautiful Muskoka, which I work out of all
35:38
summer.
35:39
So April to September, I think this year,
35:42
and then getting back to the Caribbean, right?
35:45
Getting back to Barbados.
35:46
And so we're coming into that season.
35:48
Just yesterday, I was looking at flights and
35:52
thinking, if like, what kind of work, right?
35:56
What would take me what would take me
35:58
there for short or long term?
36:01
And as you know, I, there's a big
36:03
part of my heart that is still wanting
36:09
to contribute to the global sphere.
36:11
You know, my skills, I miss using my
36:16
skills many days.
36:18
I came back to Canada for two reasons.
36:20
One, I lost vision in my one of
36:23
my eyes permanently.
36:25
I still have scar tissue.
36:26
So I can't navigate the world like I
36:30
could have 30 years ago.
36:32
And with technology now, I don't think I
36:34
need to, right?
36:35
Like, I think I think I could could
36:37
do things that just weren't possible 30 years
36:39
ago because of technology.
36:41
But I also think, you know, as much
36:44
as coming back was not in my plan,
36:49
and maybe this should have been an interesting
36:51
story to have gone down.
36:52
But, you know, April Fool's Day 2004 was
36:55
a very intentional day because I'd had this
36:59
eye incident as I like to call it
37:02
in 2002.
37:03
I had just been selected for after a
37:06
year of interviews, I'd been selected for pretty
37:09
much a lifetime diplomatic post as a young
37:12
professional.
37:13
There were 10,000 applicants, and 30 of
37:15
us made it to an interview.
37:17
And 15 of us were selected.
37:20
And the day that the email came in
37:22
was the day after my eye had happened.
37:25
But as you know, as my loved ones
37:29
say, if I had gotten that work, I
37:31
probably would not physically be here, just knowing
37:34
the way the world has turned out.
37:36
And, you know, the the beauty of having
37:40
the choice, I could have sat behind a
37:42
desk.
37:43
That wasn't me, I really felt the call
37:46
to be an entrepreneur to set to set
37:49
up potentials realized.
37:51
And starting, you know, starting afresh on April
37:55
Fool's Day, the question was, you know, are
37:57
we are we cheating the universe?
37:59
Or is the universe going to laugh at
38:01
us?
38:02
And I didn't know, I didn't even know,
38:04
like, at that point, that 13 months later,
38:08
my son, who is now 21, would be
38:11
born, I never thought that I'd be a
38:13
mom, but it's been like such a joy,
38:15
such a wonderful part of my life.
38:17
And you know me, I'm always talking about
38:19
him, because he's, he's my best.
38:21
He's my best buddy, right?
38:23
We were quarantine buddies.
38:24
And it's just like, wow, you know, like,
38:28
you don't know, I think sometimes you don't
38:30
know.
38:33
And maybe, you know, I've, on some parts,
38:36
saved the sort of this part of the
38:38
story for the end of our conversation.
38:40
But I would have had no idea in
38:42
2002, when my eye happened, just how differently
38:47
my whole life would go.
38:49
And I think even now, there are days
38:51
when I was like, I wish I could
38:52
be like, 30 again, I wish I could
38:55
go and do what I love to do,
38:57
and where I have made a really big
38:59
difference, I believe, in the world.
39:00
And I still make a difference in different
39:03
ways, you know, and I have a feeling
39:05
my gut is saying, you know, my heart
39:07
is saying there's going to be another adventure,
39:09
as long as I allow for it to,
39:12
right, like, I think there's an allowing.
39:14
And we can't always, we can't always see
39:18
what lies ahead.
39:19
But we have to trust, have to trust.
39:22
So.
39:22
That was beautiful.
39:24
Thank you.
39:25
And I learned, I have so many more
39:27
questions that we don't have time for today.
39:30
So I will definitely have five minutes left,
39:32
Christie, we can take a lot.
39:37
I have a couple of questions for you.
39:39
One I'm asked when I'm one I would
39:41
like to ask is for our listeners.
39:43
If someone is feeling that call to something
39:48
different, and also feeling unsure about how it's
39:54
going to go, what advice would you give?
39:56
Like, how do you find your way forward
39:59
from that place?
40:01
So I'm not gonna give advice, because I'm
40:02
a coach.
40:03
But like, I would invite people to go
40:05
back to their vision, right?
40:06
Like, what is the pull?
40:07
Like, there's so much more power in the
40:09
pull versus the push.
40:11
Right?
40:12
And I sort of say that if I
40:13
use my eye as an example, right?
40:16
Like, I could have been pushed into sitting
40:19
at a desk in New York City.
40:20
And that was not, you know, they were
40:22
like, oh, you could sit in HR.
40:24
And I was like, I really want to
40:26
I wanted the pull of like, I'm a
40:27
creative.
40:28
I've always known that about myself, you know,
40:31
people have recognized that in me, and I
40:32
wanted to create a business.
40:34
And I figured, you know, what's the worst
40:36
thing?
40:36
Like, literally, we said, what's the worst thing
40:39
that could happen?
40:41
Right?
40:42
Part of my heart, and I think, you
40:44
know, certainly our family having, like straddling Canada
40:49
and the Caribbean, there's been a 20 plus
40:52
year tension.
40:53
And when we got a call a few
40:57
years ago, saying, mom's in ICU, you got
41:00
to fly back.
41:01
It was like, there was no question.
41:03
It was like, okay, we're gonna get on
41:04
the plane.
41:05
But that was such an emotional plane ride
41:07
to go 20 years have passed.
41:10
But as soon as our feet hit the
41:12
tarmac, it was like, and why?
41:15
Because like, I think there's a part of
41:16
vision, right?
41:17
Like, there's a part of vision as a
41:18
part of who we are, regardless of how
41:20
much time has passed.
41:21
And I'm sure our listeners all over have
41:25
friends, family members that you might not have
41:27
seen in years, even in a decade or
41:32
two where you can pick up and while
41:34
life is different, I think there's always a
41:36
core of who we are that remains the
41:38
same, regardless of the good and not so
41:41
great experiences in life, because it would be
41:44
easy to listen to this and think, oh,
41:45
everything is peachy keen, right?
41:47
Not always, but how do we, how do
41:49
we reframe?
41:50
And I think that is part of the
41:51
change process as well.
41:53
It's very hard when we go through it.
41:55
There are many things that we probably don't
41:58
ever imagine will be part of the experience.
42:01
But how do we translate that?
42:04
How do we readjust the way we look
42:07
at it?
42:07
Because every experience helps us grow as easy
42:11
or as painful as that is.
42:13
And so I think what the advice is,
42:18
is not advice.
42:19
It's go back to your vision.
42:20
What do you want to create?
42:21
And go back to who you are.
42:23
Like, what's going to make you happy?
42:25
What's going to make you have moments of
42:28
joy, experience awe, which in hard times are
42:33
hard to do.
42:34
I think my learning in the pandemic, when
42:37
this business was 10xing, and I was also
42:40
responsible for my parents, and it was a
42:45
legal responsibility, but it was also, you know,
42:48
a joy to be there and have a
42:52
business that even today allows me to go
42:56
in and see my mom who's so well
42:59
cared for, but I can spend time.
43:01
And I know, like, I've been a fixture
43:04
there for like three years.
43:06
When I go in, everyone knows me.
43:10
And my mother, whose cognitive decline is such,
43:15
she's always like, everyone is so happy when
43:18
you come, Jennifer.
43:19
That's true.
43:20
Because again, it's a different perspective, right?
43:23
I come into their world, which is an
43:27
amazing world, but it's very heavy, very, very
43:30
heavy.
43:31
So again, maybe we only got one more
43:36
question in.
43:37
So that's okay.
43:38
We've got actually, I'm gonna ask you one
43:40
more.
43:41
And that is, um, what edge are you
43:45
surfing right now?
43:47
Gosh, what edge am I not surfing?
43:49
I think the biggest edge that I'm surfing
43:51
is, I'm going to put it simply as
43:56
this, it's continuing to hold the multiplicities of
43:58
life.
44:00
I think that is really the edge and
44:03
know that it's okay.
44:05
Because I think we are in a world
44:07
that likes to simplify.
44:08
We're in a very complex world, but this
44:10
is the world that I have always navigated.
44:14
And so when I've been told, oh, you
44:18
can't do multiple things, it's like, no, I
44:20
can.
44:20
And actually it makes me very happy.
44:22
So I think that is the edge to
44:24
be an advocate for multiplicity, to be an
44:28
advocate for also like trusting.
44:32
Because I think in, in not knowing, it's
44:36
easy.
44:37
It's easy to get fearful.
44:40
It's easy to be unsure that when we
44:43
can trust, whether it's self-trust, trust in
44:47
others around us, trust in a greater power,
44:50
that's when I think we can be of
44:53
service, which is really key to who I
44:56
am as a human.
44:57
Thank you again for having me.
45:00
I do need to head on out, but
45:02
I will see you soon and hope that
45:04
the listeners have enjoyed today's conversation.
45:08
Alrighty.
45:08
And I will see the rest of you
45:10
in another week.
45:11
And until then, I am wishing you wonder.
45:14
Take care, everyone.
45:16
Before we go today, I wanted to come
45:19
back to a few things that Jennifer said
45:20
that are still stuck spinning in my head
45:24
that I think you might want to remember
45:26
as well.
45:27
One is her description of the messy middle
45:30
of reinvention.
45:32
We might feel like we're changing, and yet
45:34
the rest of the world is responding to
45:37
an older version of who we are.
45:39
So we're always playing this game of tug
45:42
of war and waiting for the rest of
45:45
the world to catch up with who we
45:47
feel we are in any moment.
45:50
I also loved her question, what needs to
45:54
be shed?
45:54
And this is a big one because a
45:56
lot of times, sometimes, maybe not a lot
45:59
of times, sometimes the thing we're being asked
46:02
to release isn't something that's failed.
46:05
It may be something that we've built beautifully.
46:08
It may still be working.
46:09
It might be something we're known for.
46:11
It might be even something that we still
46:13
love, but that no longer contains all of
46:17
who we're becoming.
46:20
Sit with that one for a minute.
46:23
And then finally, there was Jennifer's reminder about
46:26
the power of the pull versus the push.
46:29
And for this one, it means coming back
46:32
to what makes us feel alive, what brings
46:36
us joy or awe, and trusting those clues,
46:39
even when we can't see exactly where that
46:42
road would take us.
46:44
So if you'd like to stay in Jennifer's
46:47
world, I highly recommend you do.
46:49
Look for her forthcoming book, Flow Flex Scale
46:53
Nine Catalysts for Thriving as a Solopreneur.
46:56
You can also find Jennifer J.
46:58
Britton on LinkedIn and listen to her on
47:01
the Flow Flex Scale podcast, Coaching Many, and
47:05
the Remote Pathways podcast.
47:06
I'll put all of those links along with
47:09
Jennifer's other resources in the show notes.
47:12
And I will leave you with this question
47:14
for the week.
47:16
What is pulling you forward so strongly that
47:19
you might be willing to shed an old
47:21
version of yourself in order to follow it?
47:25
And until next time, I am wishing you
47:27
wonder.