Latest / Martyr's Row / Ep. 10 - Could Eve Speak Snake?

Transcript

Ep. 10 - Could Eve Speak Snake? · Martyr's Row

• 0:00
  Saint Peter, among many other saints, the blessed
• 0:04
  Apostle Peter was condemned to death and crucified,
• 0:08
  as some do write at Rome, albeit some others,
• 0:11
  and not without cause, do doubt thereof. Hegesippus
• 0:16
  sayeth that Nero sought matters against Peter
• 0:18
  to put him to death, which, when the people perceived,
• 0:23
  they entreated Peter with much ado that he would
• 0:26
  fly the city. Peter, through their importunity,
• 0:29
  at length persuaded, prepared himself to avoid.
• 0:34
  But, coming to the gate, he saw the Lord Christ
• 0:38
  come to meet him, to whom he, worshipping, said,
• 0:42
  Lord, hither dost thou go? To whom he answered
• 0:46
  and said, I am come again to be crucified. By
• 0:51
  this Peter, perceiving his suffering to be understood,
• 0:56
  returned into the city. Jerome saith that he
• 0:59
  was crucified, his head being down and his feet
• 1:03
  upward, himself so requiring, because he was,
• 1:07
  he said, unworthy to be crucified after the same
• 1:11
  form and manner as the Lord was. Hey, Stephen.
• 1:32
  Hey, Paul. You know, I have some news to say.
• 1:40
  Lay it on us. I was wrong. You were wrong? I
• 1:43
  know. You know, I feel like you're not one of
• 1:45
  those people that people rejoice over being wrong.
• 1:49
  They're like, yes. Because there's some people
• 1:52
  who are like, you were wrong. But you're not
• 1:59
  one of those people. Thank you. Yeah. That actually
• 2:02
  makes me feel good to hear. That doesn't mean
• 2:03
  that you're wrong. Or it's just people are not
• 2:05
  surprised. They're like, yeah, and what's new?
• 2:10
  That checks out. No, but I mean like, you know,
• 2:15
  when you aim high, sometimes you miss. That's
• 2:17
  true. And you aim high a lot too. I do. I feel
• 2:23
  like you gotta shoot for the stars. Then which
• 2:28
  star eventually I know You paused cuz you were
• 2:33
  waiting for it Sometimes you realize they're
• 2:35
  actually just balls of gas You're gonna burn
• 2:38
  out. Yeah, like wrong wrong star. Yeah, they're
• 2:42
  not potentially otherworldly beings. Yeah Anyways,
• 2:47
  but anyway you were wrong so in a You tell us
• 2:51
  how you were wrong you So in a previous episode
• 3:05
  previously on yeah, we cut back to it I Careful
• 3:11
  cuz you have to edit that. I know I just thought
• 3:13
  about that Just put any clip we want to right
• 3:17
  here and just there's no audio. It's actually
• 3:20
  you saying something It's us singing a song so
• 3:24
  I was wrong right here that was the wrong court
• 3:26
  That would be funny we could critique our own
• 3:30
  song that would be actually kind of interesting
• 3:32
  new segment It's like a season finale. We just
• 3:34
  added segments where all we're doing is critiquing
• 3:37
  the segment from the last episode Oh, that would
• 3:40
  be kind of interesting. No, it wouldn't. It's
• 3:44
  the commentary on a bonus channel. Yeah, because
• 3:47
  YouTube is full of that, full channels on just
• 3:50
  like, hey, look at this video, and look what
• 3:53
  they're saying. We react to our own videos, but
• 3:56
  with the contrary viewpoint. These guys are idiots.
• 4:02
  Get a load of this guy. They've never read the
• 4:04
  Bible at all. All right, so you were saying?
• 4:09
  Yeah, so on a previous episode, previously on...
• 4:13
  Martyrs Row. I had said that Psalm 91 wasn't
• 4:18
  discovered until the Dead Sea Scrolls. Yeah,
• 4:20
  yeah, that it was like a missing Psalm. Yeah,
• 4:22
  so it turns out that's actually not true. Makes
• 4:25
  sense. However, yeah, that checks out. So in
• 4:30
  the Hebrew text, there are 150 Psalms, as there
• 4:33
  are today. But Psalm 91 was found... Amongst
• 4:37
  I think four other Psalms that aren't in the
• 4:40
  Hebrew Bible. Okay with the Dead Sea Scrolls
• 4:43
  And so it's interesting about this was the first
• 4:46
  time we found this and the connection was made
• 4:47
  to exorcism. Oh That like those grouping of Psalms
• 4:51
  were specific to that category. Yeah and up until
• 4:54
  that point This was the new part that we discovered
• 4:57
  the part that I misunderstood when I was reading
• 4:59
  this. Yeah is that We didn't understand Psalm
• 5:04
  91 as an exorcist Psalm It's like a psalm of
• 5:06
  protection, because we look at it and it's like,
• 5:08
  protect against pestilence and terror and the
• 5:11
  errors of the night. It's actually referring
• 5:13
  to Canaanite gods. And so it's praying over those
• 5:19
  demonic powers of like, get them away from me.
• 5:22
  because we see it now in a new context. Correct.
• 5:25
  Grouped together with these other three Psalms.
• 5:28
  Yeah. That are non -canonical. Correct. It gives
• 5:30
  us context to what the Psalm is actually specifically
• 5:33
  talking about. Yes. And honestly, that's like,
• 5:37
  we're going to have future episodes where we
• 5:39
  kind of dig into the Psalms a little bit. We're
• 5:41
  going to have to. There's so much inside of them.
• 5:44
  Yeah, because the Psalms is one of those spaces
• 5:46
  where it's like, you don't typically think as
• 5:49
  Psalms as prophetic dreams or visions or maybe
• 5:55
  insights specifically into the worldview. You
• 5:59
  think of them a lot more as just like laments,
• 6:02
  prayers, songs. It's not necessarily like projecting
• 6:06
  into anything. Which honestly is kind of an interesting
• 6:09
  thought when I hear it now is because you look
• 6:13
  at like old hymns that we sing and even a lot
• 6:17
  of worship today it's like the idea is like how
• 6:19
  do we present theology through music yeah and
• 6:23
  it's like why wouldn't the Psalms be a similar
• 6:25
  way sure it might not be as grounded as far as
• 6:28
  like there's more poetic language in it so there's
• 6:31
  more to parse through yeah okay so like the Psalms
• 6:33
  like obviously use poetic language a lot of times
• 6:35
  but it's like it is theology yeah and it's like
• 6:39
  there's definitely ideas and stuff we can learn
• 6:40
  and glean from it it's not like oh it's a psalm
• 6:43
  so whatever Yeah, but it's also similar to a
• 6:47
  modern song. It is creating a framework of which
• 6:51
  to paint an image of what's going on. And it's
• 6:55
  not like pretend images. No, they're real images.
• 6:59
  Currently, a song written now is more popular
• 7:04
  or hits harder if it has some type of contextual...
• 7:09
  like pop culture reference yeah that's actually
• 7:12
  very clear and relatable not something completely
• 7:16
  made up yeah it has to relate to something yeah
• 7:19
  so in the psalms when when there's a picture
• 7:21
  painted it the psalm wouldn't be good unless
• 7:27
  the picture they were painting was a true reality
• 7:30
  yeah you know what i mean um yeah well it's like
• 7:33
  i guess even thinking of the the hymn by Martin
• 7:37
  Luther, Mighty Fortress. He says, a mighty fortress
• 7:40
  is our God, a bulwark never failing. It's like,
• 7:42
  well, he's not saying he's actually a wall. He's
• 7:44
  not just like some building. He's like, but it's
• 7:47
  that idea of like, that's how strong and mighty
• 7:49
  God actually is, that it's related to something
• 7:52
  that powerful. And it's like, it's setting that
• 7:54
  framework of how do we think about the mightiness
• 7:56
  of God? And I think along that side, what are
• 7:58
  those images that get painted of, this is the
• 8:01
  world that we're living in, what I'm going through?
• 8:04
  and how do we paint those images that relate
• 8:06
  to something very real? Yeah, that's true. Paul,
• 8:10
  what's your favorite poem? That's a good question,
• 8:15
  actually. Anybody listening, write down what
• 8:19
  your favorite poem is in the comments. This isn't
• 8:23
  traditional, but actually, just did a Tipsy Theology
• 8:26
  episode on this, which is the Sir Going in the
• 8:30
  Green Night. Which is like not I guess I don't
• 8:33
  think I'd traditionally put that in a poem. I
• 8:35
  feel like you need like a pipe right now Because
• 8:40
  the thing is is like if I if I ask most people
• 8:43
  I know what's your favorite poem? They'd be like,
• 8:45
  what are you asking me? What's a poem what is
• 8:52
  this what is a poem but I'm like great question
• 8:58
  Let me pick out from my catalog in my brain.
• 9:01
  And I think probably because that's the newest,
• 9:02
  the most recent one I've read. That makes sense.
• 9:04
  And I do enjoy it a lot. Yeah. And it's a very
• 9:07
  interesting, it's a very interesting metric and
• 9:10
  meter that they use in there, which is fun. But
• 9:12
  anyway, I'm getting nerdy about it. What about
• 9:13
  you? What's your favorite poem? No, get nerdy
• 9:15
  about it. Okay. So actually the author, original
• 9:18
  author of it is Unknown. Okay. That happens a
• 9:22
  lot with poems. Yes. And he was actually a contemporary
• 9:24
  to Chaucer. who was using a new framework, but
• 9:28
  this guy was trying to, he was like trying to
• 9:30
  bring disco back, essentially. So the unknown
• 9:33
  author was a contemporary to Chaucer. Yes. That
• 9:38
  rhymes, but also... That's true. But also, how
• 9:42
  does that... I'm a bit of a poet myself. But
• 9:45
  how does that make any sense? How is an unknown
• 9:48
  person a contemporary? Well, as far as the time
• 9:50
  it was written at. Just just the language used
• 9:53
  based on like oh, we know the time frame this
• 9:55
  was written. It must we just don't know who wrote
• 9:57
  it. Gotcha Yeah, I'm like that that doesn't check
• 10:01
  out His name is unknown author that's his name
• 10:05
  is God given name His God given name But so he
• 10:13
  was essentially the guy like trying to bring
• 10:15
  disco back where he's like alliteration was old
• 10:18
  -school he's like now I want it to be new school
• 10:21
  yeah yeah so he was retro yeah but it didn't
• 10:24
  work it didn't take off um but that was the way
• 10:27
  that he wrote yeah they're like not good and
• 10:30
  he's like let me take my name off of this but
• 10:33
  what's interesting is in each section that's
• 10:36
  written and he they don't have he doesn't have
• 10:38
  like verse numbers written in it okay which is
• 10:41
  also an interesting approach yeah um i mean the
• 10:44
  bible is written that way yeah yeah True. What?
• 10:48
  Well, so the main body of it... Can you imagine
• 10:52
  if it was? Verse four. Moses, what are you working
• 11:00
  on? I'm working on Exodus chapter three, verse
• 11:05
  four. Okay, Moses. Weirdo. yeah isn't that funny
• 11:13
  though that we just were like yeah we should
• 11:15
  put that in there yeah i mean it's helpful it
• 11:19
  is helpful but it's so funny because uh it's
• 11:21
  an index actually so i this was years ago um
• 11:25
  but i someone had to read was for a wedding they
• 11:28
  were doing a bible reading And so they just had
• 11:31
  a Bible. It wasn't like printed out in a piece
• 11:33
  of paper Okay, and the guy who had to go read
• 11:35
  was not a Christian didn't grow up that way So
• 11:37
  his understanding of Christianity was very very
• 11:39
  small. Sure. So it's funny They had him come
• 11:42
  up and read it and there's just a Bible sitting
• 11:44
  there and he's like, what do I do? Well, cuz
• 11:49
  they opened up he's like it's I it was What is
• 11:54
  the love is patient love is kind that first Corinthians
• 11:57
  12 Okay, that sounds no 13 13. Yeah, first Corinthians
• 12:03
  13 because 12 and 14 are spiritual gifts. Okay
• 12:06
  But yeah, so they're like, yeah just open up
• 12:08
  to that and he's like What? How do I do that?
• 12:14
  Oh They didn't even have it open to the no pass
• 12:16
  he had to open it up himself. He's like I Don't
• 12:22
  know how to do this seems like major oversight.
• 12:25
  Yeah Thought you were saying like he walked up
• 12:28
  and it was set to the page I was just opened
• 12:30
  up know where to get where no He didn't even
• 12:32
  know like where to go and then how to like how
• 12:34
  to get to where they just put the Bible there
• 12:36
  And just let it fall It was like decipher how
• 12:42
  do you like what do you mean 12? What is that?
• 12:46
  That's hilarious Was a small wedding or big wedding?
• 12:51
  Um, it was like a medium -sized wedding. Yeah,
• 12:53
  what number what's the number? Because medium
• 12:57
  size can mean anything. I want to say there's
• 13:01
  probably like a hundred people there. Okay, okay.
• 13:03
  Yeah. My wedding was like a hundred people. That's
• 13:07
  cool. I guess, I feel like that's large, but
• 13:10
  maybe it's not. Yeah, I always think of like
• 13:14
  150 plus is like large. That's too much. If you're
• 13:22
  planning a wedding and you're inviting more than
• 13:24
  150 people. You're doing too much. You're doing
• 13:27
  too much. Overachiever. Yeah. What are you, the
• 13:31
  emperor or something? Or you might just be greedy.
• 13:33
  Yeah. Just trying to get all those presents.
• 13:35
  Or you just can't decide who to cut. I wonder
• 13:37
  at what number though, in inviting people, like
• 13:41
  if you know there's 300 people at the wedding,
• 13:45
  how likely are you to just decide not to bring
• 13:48
  a gift? Oh, that's a good question. Like that
• 13:51
  probably goes up, right? Yeah. Because if you're
• 13:53
  one of 80, you're probably gonna be more likely
• 13:55
  to bring a gift. If you're one of 25, you're
• 13:58
  definitely bringing a gift. Oh, you have to bring
• 13:59
  it. They'll know. Everyone in that building will
• 14:02
  know. Ronda, where's your gift? They send you
• 14:06
  a letter afterwards, like, thanks for not sending
• 14:08
  a gift, jerk. Look what you did, you filthy animal.
• 14:14
  There's a picture of where the item they should
• 14:15
  have bought would have gone. Look how sad we
• 14:19
  are. Like, I wonder at what number of guests
• 14:22
  do people stop bringing gifts? There's got to
• 14:24
  be a number they would what do you guys think?
• 14:27
  What's the number? Yeah? I'm never bringing a
• 14:33
  gift. That's a lopement. So I guess you wouldn't
• 14:35
  bring a gift words are fun. They are fun So what's
• 14:47
  your favorite poem? Um, well, um Honestly like
• 14:53
  I used to have a Robert Frost book. Oh, nice.
• 14:56
  And I liked that because Robert Frost kind of
• 14:59
  leaned into the Emerson side of it, which is
• 15:06
  like every modern emo's favorite. It's so true.
• 15:12
  Yeah, just the contemplative side of things.
• 15:16
  I actually just picked up a Longfellow, a book
• 15:19
  of Longfellow's poems. Yeah. And I'm excited
• 15:21
  to read those. Yeah. I mean, I feel like it is
• 15:25
  hard to pick up a book of poems and just start
• 15:27
  reading it, because I feel like your brain gets
• 15:28
  jumbled up. You have to pick one and then think
• 15:32
  about it for a little bit unless it stinks and
• 15:33
  you read another one. Yeah, we've kind of addressed
• 15:36
  this too, but even the readings that we do from
• 15:39
  Fox's Book of Martyrs, the way the words lay,
• 15:43
  we don't really talk like that anymore. And we've
• 15:46
  talked about this before, but it is just acknowledging
• 15:48
  it again. It's like, it is... I feel like it
• 15:51
  becomes poetic to us because it's language we
• 15:54
  don't normally use. And normally poetry is in
• 15:58
  a higher form of language. Yeah. I mean, even
• 16:01
  with the way Fox's is written, it's like there
• 16:03
  is kind of a poetic musical nature to it. That's
• 16:05
  true. Yeah. And definitely in poetry, if it's
• 16:09
  good, it's definitely musical. So I have a theory.
• 16:14
  This is a movie theory. So based on that specifically.
• 16:19
  So I think that like, there's a higher percentage
• 16:23
  of older movies that people can quote. Like,
• 16:28
  that you can watch the movie and you can quote
• 16:31
  what's about to come next. And I think the reason
• 16:35
  why newer movies, like shows are probably more
• 16:39
  quotable now. But those are like catchphrases
• 16:43
  and stuff. But like, I can watch the first Home
• 16:47
  Alone. mmm, and just kind of sing the near near
• 16:52
  like yeah, that's true and like that's I just
• 16:56
  gave away the punchline, but like the Like my
• 17:01
  theory is is like when you go back and you watch
• 17:03
  those movies. There's a Cadence to the phrasing
• 17:08
  of the dialogue That's singing. Yeah. Yeah. So
• 17:12
  like if you're if you're a person that's trying
• 17:15
  to be a movie maker or writing something, a narrative
• 17:20
  in this way. I feel like that's something that's
• 17:23
  really missing in modern film. It's a cadence
• 17:27
  to the dialogue. Are you familiar with Edgar
• 17:30
  Wright? I know who that is, but. Okay, he's a
• 17:33
  director. He did Baby Driver and Shaun of the
• 17:36
  Dead. Yeah, so that's kind of a similar. Because
• 17:37
  he's in that way. The way he writes his movies
• 17:41
  is with music in mind. So he's like, oh, I love
• 17:45
  this song. And so let me write the dialogue and
• 17:48
  the structure of the whole film around this music.
• 17:52
  Yeah, in the feel of the song. Yeah. Yeah, and
• 17:54
  that's like, that's why his movies were so...
• 17:57
  And they just feel good when you watch them.
• 17:59
  They do. Yeah. Because it's taking, like a song
• 18:01
  and the music of the song itself is setting like
• 18:04
  the frequency range of where, whether you're
• 18:07
  happy, mad, like if there's tension or whatever
• 18:10
  there is. But you can do that with dialogue.
• 18:13
  Absolutely, and like in a movie you're not going
• 18:15
  song to song to song. Yeah, you're typically
• 18:18
  going dialogue into a song transition Yeah, yeah,
• 18:21
  so Except for like baby driver like that type
• 18:25
  of movie is like everything is song is built
• 18:28
  around. Yeah Yeah, and they're like I feel like
• 18:31
  drive is kind of like that to the Well, let me
• 18:36
  not plug movies that people probably shouldn't
• 18:38
  watch Yeah, but that's one of those things is
• 18:46
  like if you watch an older movie like that, even
• 18:49
  those like 90s rom -coms, they have a cadence
• 18:53
  to them. Those are very, yeah. And so they feel
• 18:56
  warm, like they have this, like there's an aesthetic
• 18:59
  that's nice and all of that stuff too, but the
• 19:02
  dialogue is like, it's almost like the person
• 19:05
  writing it was thinking about how... there could
• 19:07
  be what you would call a near rhyme, whereas
• 19:11
  something in the line rhymes to another piece
• 19:15
  of the other line. It's not necessarily the last
• 19:17
  word, but a near rhyme or an internal rhyme would
• 19:23
  get you from line to line, where something in
• 19:26
  it creates some cadence from line to line in
• 19:29
  a dialogue. And I feel like that's intentional
• 19:33
  writing. and you can't really improvise that
• 19:37
  unless somebody is rhythmic in that way. That's
• 19:40
  true. But I feel like that's like a... And that's
• 19:42
  kind of like goes into the art of storytelling.
• 19:44
  Yeah. It's like there is like a structure and
• 19:47
  a harmony to it. Right. One of the things that
• 19:49
  I learned way back in the day, there's a guy
• 19:53
  who created like the story circle, I think is
• 19:55
  what he called it. Okay. And so he basically
• 19:57
  had like a circle he would draw with points.
• 20:00
  And he said the way to make harmony in your film
• 20:02
  is like, here's your starting point. Yeah. like
• 20:05
  down here should be where you kind of hit the
• 20:07
  low end. Okay. And it's like, so everything kind
• 20:10
  of mirrors itself. Yeah. So it's like, yeah,
• 20:12
  like you have these mirroring points where it's
• 20:14
  like, if this is where something new happens,
• 20:15
  this is where we see like a resolution to it.
• 20:17
  Okay. And it was that way of like, let me draw,
• 20:20
  like drawing a perfect arc to it, essentially.
• 20:24
  Yeah, like anything introduced should pay off.
• 20:26
  Yeah. That's actually a big thing. It's pretty
• 20:29
  cool. Yeah. Like in newer films too, it's like
• 20:32
  there's introduction of people or introduction
• 20:35
  of storyline that never pays off. Yeah. It's
• 20:37
  like, well, just leave it out. Yeah, what's the
• 20:39
  point of that? Yeah. But that's a, I feel like
• 20:43
  that's interesting. And then getting back into
• 20:45
  like the Psalms and the way that scripture is
• 20:47
  written, I feel like it's like, we've talked
• 20:49
  about this before, but like the comedic concept
• 20:53
  of economy of words. Yeah. even in the simple
• 20:58
  fact that the way that the Lord orchestrated
• 21:01
  what was going to be written in the Bible is
• 21:04
  picking, okay, here's 10 things that are happening,
• 21:09
  here's the one thing that actually echoes this
• 21:12
  thing back here, and then we'll prophesy to this
• 21:16
  thing over here. So it's like, we could have
• 21:19
  mentioned the other nine stories, but it doesn't
• 21:22
  actually play into the main through line and
• 21:27
  keep going. So that's why the symmetry of the
• 21:32
  66 books is so beautiful because it does call
• 21:37
  in, it's all tied and weaved together. And sometimes
• 21:41
  it'll be like it uses one word that calls back
• 21:44
  to a story from the Old Testament or in another
• 21:46
  place, even sometimes within its own book. And
• 21:49
  it's like, well, that's on purpose. because it
• 21:51
  wants you to think about that while it's talking
• 21:54
  about this. Another way it's funny, even just
• 21:56
  about the humor of it, it reminded me of, I heard
• 22:01
  this from a friend of mine who was studying Judaism
• 22:05
  for a little while, and one of the things he
• 22:08
  was joking about with us is the book of Ecclesiastes.
• 22:11
  So when we think of that book, traditionally,
• 22:13
  people are like, oh, it's kind of sad and depressing,
• 22:15
  and he's like, yeah, actually, traditionally
• 22:18
  in Jewish culture, they view that as a comedy.
• 22:20
  Right. And it's like, it's actually a comedic
• 22:22
  book. It's making light of. Yeah, which is funny
• 22:25
  if you think of like the Jerry Seinfeld, you
• 22:26
  know? Sure, yeah, yeah. It's all vanity! That's
• 22:30
  actually a good point. But it's like, oh, it's
• 22:32
  actually kind of funny when you think about it.
• 22:34
  When you read it, it's like, it is actually a
• 22:36
  really funny book. Yeah, that makes sense. In
• 22:38
  a very dark way. It's a dark comedy. Yeah. Well,
• 22:42
  and we're missing the way it was written in Hebrew.
• 22:45
  Yeah, exactly. That's true. Yeah, so that's kind
• 22:48
  of... Like that's the thing is like in the original
• 22:51
  language in the Hebrew or the Aramaic or the
• 22:54
  Greek it's written in a way and it's using pieces
• 22:57
  of the way that that language works in order
• 23:01
  to say something heavy in a light way. That's
• 23:05
  one of the beautiful things that can happen in
• 23:08
  songs as well because you can have this really,
• 23:11
  really happy like melody, music, hook. But then
• 23:16
  the words you're saying are actually really heavy.
• 23:19
  Yeah, yeah. And so you can get this heavy and
• 23:22
  important point across in a really happy package.
• 23:27
  Yeah, that's true. Which is kind of cool. And
• 23:29
  I think that that does happen in the Bible. But
• 23:32
  it feels a little darker because we're reading
• 23:36
  it in a very literal, flat language. Yeah, that's
• 23:40
  true. Which is unfortunate. It is. But... But
• 23:46
  yeah, I mean a good example of that is like Peter.
• 23:50
  So Peter, The Rock, Johnson. I did not see that
• 24:00
  coming. Because somebody like listening to this
• 24:06
  said that out loud before I did. They probably
• 24:08
  did. And I was like uh -huh. And then it paid
• 24:10
  off. And I was going a whole different direction.
• 24:15
  But like, the importance of names in the Bible.
• 24:17
  It's like, is it funny because you're calling
• 24:19
  Peter a rock but you're like an unstable person?
• 24:22
  I'm going that direction with it, and you're
• 24:25
  like, Johnson. No, let's bring levity to it.
• 24:32
  No, but that's like, that type of thing is like,
• 24:35
  every name means something. And we had an earlier
• 24:38
  episode talking about that and the intentionality
• 24:40
  of that and what the names in the Bible actually
• 24:43
  call to and speak to. It's like everything is
• 24:45
  fully tied in. Yeah. Which is so awesome. It's
• 24:49
  cool to see that. And yeah, I just think that's
• 24:54
  poetic. It is poetic. Right? That's what makes
• 24:57
  it so fun and interesting because there's so
• 25:00
  many layers. Yeah. So it sounds like Peter is
• 25:05
  like Should I go here? Because if I go here,
• 25:09
  I'm gonna get crucified and then has a vision
• 25:11
  of the Lord. And he's like, yeah. Yeah, and he's
• 25:14
  like, all right, turns around and goes and gets
• 25:15
  crucified. Which is also like this beautiful
• 25:20
  thing because it means that like even in Fox's
• 25:22
  Book of Martyrs, he's quoting what the Lord says
• 25:26
  to. Yeah, true. Which that's actually kind of
• 25:29
  wild. So Fox's Book of Martyrs has a quote from
• 25:33
  the Lord. Yeah. in quotations yeah like this
• 25:36
  is the lord speaking which is like to peter did
• 25:39
  who did peter tell that to before well he had
• 25:41
  to tell somebody right somebody wrote it down
• 25:44
  it's not in the bible though yeah like um i mean
• 25:48
  it's like when he was traveling he was with people
• 25:50
  yeah and so i'm sure he's like yeah so i just
• 25:53
  got a vision i'm going i'm going in this is why
• 25:55
  but we just talked about that the other day that
• 25:58
  like how many of these martyrs their stories
• 26:01
  how many of them are actually in the bible It's
• 26:05
  yeah, it's almost none of them true like Stephen
• 26:08
  is in the Bible Yeah, and he's one of the very
• 26:11
  few that are actually recorded in Scripture Yeah,
• 26:14
  so like you don't really see like I think John
• 26:17
  is also in John the Revelator. Yeah Because a
• 26:21
  big large part because of the his exile and everything.
• 26:25
  Yeah, and then of course Paul Yeah But even with
• 26:31
  Even with Paul, I don't know that we see the
• 26:33
  details of his death. I don't think so. We just
• 26:37
  know where he dies. We hear more about his death
• 26:40
  attempts. Oh yeah. They tried to kill a guy like
• 26:44
  four or five times. Attempted murders. Attempted,
• 26:46
  there it is. Yeah, it's not his attempt at death.
• 26:46
  The other way he sounded like he attempted. He
• 26:48
  did attempt. He did not. Yeah, it was like two
• 26:51
  or three times. Yeah. Yeah, one time they like
• 26:54
  dragged him out and stoned him and left him.
• 26:56
  And he's like, oh. And then he's just like. Rough
• 26:59
  day at the office. I got back up and came back
• 27:01
  into it. It's like, oh my goodness. Still got
• 27:04
  work to do, guys. You can't kill me yet. Kind
• 27:07
  of a busy man. Yeah. Which is wild. But yeah,
• 27:11
  that is interesting. So that means that, again,
• 27:14
  not important to the story. Yeah. But important,
• 27:18
  I think, to Christians to know how that story
• 27:22
  continued. Yeah. So again, it's one of those
• 27:25
  things where Fox's Book of Martyrs, not scripture,
• 27:28
  but has a literal quote from the Lord to Peter.
• 27:32
  Yeah. Showing that they were actually obedient
• 27:35
  unto death. Yeah, and the Lord was speaking to
• 27:38
  them directly. Yeah, yeah. Which is really cool.
• 27:42
  It is pretty cool. Yeah. And then it also shows
• 27:46
  the example of he wasn't supposed to run away
• 27:51
  from that. He was supposed to lean into that,
• 27:54
  which then I go to like, well, what's the extended
• 27:56
  story of that? Who needed to see that in order
• 28:01
  to come to the Lord? Who needed to know that
• 28:04
  story in order to find Jesus? You know what I
• 28:07
  mean? Yeah, because I mean, that's very specific.
• 28:09
  He's like, no, you need to go there because this
• 28:10
  is what's going to happen. Right. Yeah. Yeah,
• 28:12
  that's pretty interesting. You ready for a song?
• 28:16
  I'm ready. Three, two, one. And we're back. Welcome
• 28:20
  back. We got some noises. And there's a guitar.
• 28:26
  This is our first electric episode. It's actually
• 28:29
  kind of intimidating, isn't it? I feel like you're
• 28:33
  pretty natural on an electric. Oh, really? Yeah.
• 28:36
  I feel like it makes more sense for you to play
• 28:38
  an electric. I don't know why. That's kind of
• 28:41
  interesting. It's a Ben Gibbard vibe. That's
• 28:45
  cool. He is one of my favorite artists. Yeah,
• 28:48
  which it shouldn't be surprising Yeah, it's funny.
• 28:51
  Actually your your nephew Jack. Yeah, he played
• 28:55
  a show with me Last year, okay, and we were gonna
• 28:58
  do a death cab song nice and so I was like, yeah
• 29:01
  This is how it goes can't hurt it before so I
• 29:03
  started playing it. He's like my gosh. You sound
• 29:05
  just like That's awesome, I was like that's the
• 29:10
  highest compliment I could see you. Yeah We were
• 29:13
  talking about poetry earlier. Ben Gibbard was
• 29:15
  probably the first person for me where I was
• 29:17
  like, whoa, you can open up the details of a
• 29:25
  glove compartment in a vehicle. The whole song
• 29:30
  is about the glove compartment. You pulled something
• 29:33
  out of it and wrote a whole story about it. Yeah,
• 29:36
  one of my favorites that he did was in... for
• 29:39
  that reason was transatlanticism, the sound of
• 29:42
  settling. It's such a cool word play that he
• 29:46
  does in the picture. And I was like, yeah, I
• 29:49
  just love that. But I feel like him and even
• 29:53
  Paul Simon, in a way, it's like the amount of
• 29:56
  words that they use for one phrase. And it's
• 29:58
  like, I don't know how you stuck that word in
• 30:01
  there, but it sounds great. Yeah, and he wasn't
• 30:03
  the first to do it, but I think he was probably
• 30:05
  the first one. I definitely heard Ben Gibbard.
• 30:08
  in detail before I heard Simon and Garfunkel.
• 30:14
  That makes sense, yeah. Yeah, or Paul Simon's
• 30:17
  stuff, but yeah. So, you got something? I have
• 30:21
  an idea for us today. Okay, let me adjust this.
• 30:25
  Oh, thank you. I don't want you to turn the...
• 30:28
  Just turn it all down accidentally. Yeah. Yeah,
• 30:32
  let's play with it. Yeah, is that good? Yeah,
• 30:36
  so we're gonna see how this goes. I played this
• 30:39
  once because I was like, oh this is a cool idea.
• 30:42
  So I played it and then I was like, time to go.
• 30:47
  So it's relatively fresh too. Yeah, here you
• 30:50
  go. He died so he could be redeemed Redeeming
• 31:22
  man to God A martyr's robe in testimony A martyr's
• 31:38
  robe He died so he could with our love. Yeah.
• 31:49
  That's awesome. It's pretty rough. I was like,
• 31:51
  oh, I forgot how that went. Well, the weird thing
• 31:54
  too is like, I'm going like, I need to turn up
• 31:56
  your mic. Oh yeah. But they won't feel that way.
• 32:01
  I hope not. Yeah. I find, I don't know why, I
• 32:03
  feel like I ended up singing so softly. Yeah.
• 32:06
  But I mean, they won't hear it that way. They're
• 32:09
  like. Ah! He is so loud! Please! Yeah, it's just,
• 32:17
  at some point we've gotta switch to headphones.
• 32:20
  Yeah, it would probably help us. Yeah, it would.
• 32:23
  I mean, there literally are headphones around
• 32:25
  us, but... We're just like, nah. Forget it. Too
• 32:28
  much. We'll figure it out later. I should have
• 32:31
  set them up tonight for this, but... Nah, it's
• 32:33
  alright. No, I like that. You wanna do it again?
• 32:35
  I would love to do it again. Okay. And if you
• 32:39
  have a second verse in mind, here's the thing
• 32:42
  we this is just going to be Now listen to our
• 32:46
  emo song. I Tried to get a little more poppy
• 32:49
  with this one. I it's not but it's not yeah Like
• 32:54
  it's it is poppy. Yeah, but it's just going to
• 32:58
  be emo You know, I think a lot of us cuz our
• 33:02
  subject is death. Yeah good point Fair enough.
• 33:06
  It's kind of funny. We were rejoicing in life
• 33:09
  and salvation. Yeah through death Well, we were
• 33:14
  just talking about that. Yeah, it's like being
• 33:16
  able to put a package around something That like
• 33:20
  makes you feel happy while you're saying actually
• 33:23
  really heavy stuff. Yeah He went to the cross
• 33:28
  died for us. It pierced his side, his blood flowed
• 33:32
  down. You're like, woo, amen. But you're like,
• 33:36
  I like this song. Yeah, I like it. Have you seen
• 33:40
  the meme where someone's like, oh, yeah, tomorrow's
• 33:43
  Black Friday. And he's like, oh, is that what
• 33:44
  you call the day I got crucified? No. We have
• 33:50
  a different name for that one. Yeah. That's a
• 33:58
  good one I Do like here's my pop you like taking
• 34:03
  the taking the the Like usage of everything and
• 34:08
  having a genuine conversation with with Jesus
• 34:11
  as if he doesn't already know But yeah, let's
• 34:21
  do it one more time sweet, I like it. Thank you.
• 34:24
  Let's see if I can remember. I'm not gonna make
• 34:26
  a verse to you You don't have to. It's fine.
• 34:28
  I mean, I could try, but, um, I don't know. Just
• 34:32
  go for it. I'll go for it. It sounds good. And
• 34:34
  if you have something, come in with it. Okay.
• 34:35
  Okay, sweet. To love him And then he died So
• 35:03
  he could be redeemed Redeeming man to God So
• 35:11
  he could live forever A martyr's role In living
• 35:19
  testimonies A martyr's role I think I'll just
• 35:43
  go for it. We just say this is a guitar solo
• 35:56
  here. Just insert guitar solo. And then go back
• 36:02
  to the chorus. A martyr's robe will live in testimony.
• 36:17
  A martyr's robe, he died so he could live. I
• 36:31
  like it. Thank you. It is more emo than I thought
• 36:35
  it would be. They always have those memes of
• 36:42
  what you think you doing a Phil Wickham song
• 36:46
  sounds like in your head and then what the live
• 36:49
  stream actually sounds like. It's like for you
• 36:53
  it's like, oh yeah, this one's gonna be really
• 36:55
  poppy and as soon as you start seeing it watch
• 36:57
  the playback you're like It's just going to be
• 37:02
  emo Honestly though, I like it and I kind of
• 37:17
  want to hear it again I'll play it again The
• 37:21
  thing is, here's the thing. Here's the thing
• 37:24
  about podcasts. Here's the thing about creating
• 37:25
  anything. You should do what you want to listen
• 37:28
  to. Right now, I want to hear it again. That's
• 37:31
  awesome. That makes me feel good. They're like,
• 37:34
  we can just rewind it. You have the little 15
• 37:37
  second thing. If you want to jump ahead, you
• 37:38
  can. Yeah, the song is like 30 seconds long.
• 37:40
  But let's do it again, because I'm learning it
• 37:42
  now. Do you want to come up with something? I
• 37:44
  don't know. We'll see. Okay, I'll look over at
• 37:47
  you. I'll leave the space. And if not, just sing
• 37:49
  a guitar solo. I won't look, I won't look. I'll
• 37:51
  study the first verse a little bit more so I
• 37:53
  can sit in the vein. Okay, sweet. Take three.
• 38:17
  taught us how to love Him. And then He died so
• 38:27
  we could be redeemed. Redeeming man to God so
• 38:35
  we could live forever. And might as well live
• 38:43
  in testimony. The martyrs wrote he died so he
• 38:52
  could live forever with our Lord. Do you know
• 39:06
  what they were doing? As if they knew that we
• 39:14
  had killed one. I think that worked. I think
• 39:56
  it did actually. That was like a pretty solid
• 39:57
  verse. That was pretty good. I just needed to
• 39:59
  hear it one more time to like get in the vein
• 40:01
  of what we were saying. Like ingest it a little
• 40:04
  more. Yeah, but also like they wouldn't have
• 40:08
  killed him if they knew. Right. 3, 2, 1. Yeah,
• 40:16
  let us know if you want us to make a Spotify
• 40:18
  artist page. Yeah. I don't... Martyrs Row might
• 40:22
  already be a band. Like... like Death Row records.
• 40:26
  We should probably check that out. We should
• 40:29
  probably make sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We should
• 40:31
  take our graphic and just add a guitar. Why did
• 40:33
  we say we should at the same time? That was weird.
• 40:37
  We're in sync now. Oh yeah, instead of the he
• 40:40
  can be holding a guitar. He's like holding a
• 40:41
  guitar. And that's the artist photo. That's a
• 40:44
  good idea. Makes me kind of fun. Yeah. I'm into
• 40:47
  it. Let us know if you want us to do that. Yeah.
• 40:50
  The truth is, is like. it would be, it might
• 40:53
  be a completely different audience of people
• 40:56
  that would listen to that. And they're like,
• 40:57
  we hate the podcast, love the album. And it's
• 41:03
  all just Midwest emo for you. We're like way
• 41:07
  out of context. Cause like a few episodes back
• 41:11
  it's just a song about Andrew. They're like,
• 41:15
  this is on a different level. Like man, I wish
• 41:18
  these guys would tour. Yeah, I don't know. I
• 41:20
  don't know. Oh, that'd be awesome. Let us know
• 41:23
  if you feel like we need to add the segments
• 41:24
  too, because that's a thing we've been talking
• 41:27
  about. I think, I don't know, I think we're...
• 41:29
  I feel like we could have some fluid segments
• 41:31
  in here. True. Of like, when we have it, we have
• 41:33
  it. Yeah. Yeah. We need just like hard cut to
• 41:36
  like some advertisement. Just like right in the
• 41:39
  middle of a serious... Right now. Yeah. In the
• 41:41
  middle of a serious conversation. Pocket tees.
• 41:46
  Do you love wearing t -shirts but have nowhere
• 41:48
  to put your calculator? pocket tees Do you like
• 41:53
  when there's a logo and there's just a pocket
• 41:56
  interrupting it? That's my favorite. That's what
• 41:59
  I look for That's what I feel like this shirt
• 42:05
  is if you're just listening too bad I think um
• 42:10
  Cuz I don't I don't wear pocket tees. I know
• 42:12
  that's what you love. You have two pockets on
• 42:14
  your shirt Yeah, but it's not a t -shirt. That's
• 42:16
  a good point. And there's buttons on them. Yeah.
• 42:18
  Which I think is important because I think one
• 42:20
  of the things I'm afraid of is someone's just
• 42:22
  going to walk up and just boom. That's like that
• 42:26
  fear. So like if I never wear a pocket tee, I
• 42:27
  won't have to worry about it. Yeah, that's my
• 42:30
  point. Yeah, you want someone to do that. No,
• 42:32
  no, no. So like, no, I actually feel the opposite.
• 42:37
  I feel like when I have a pocket on, somehow
• 42:40
  the shirt feels sturdier. Really? Yeah, it feels
• 42:44
  more protective even though there's not a pocket
• 42:46
  on both sides because that would be ridiculous
• 42:48
  looking. Who would do that? Like What if you
• 42:52
  had a shirt that like a pocket tee we call like
• 42:54
  the ultimate tee and it's just like six pockets
• 42:58
  Oh, it's as many pockets you can put. Yeah, like
• 43:00
  one on the sleeves, too Or just like mimicked
• 43:03
  so like one on both Sides of your chest and then
• 43:07
  same placement on the back. That could be kind
• 43:09
  of fun. No Yeah, I feel like you should do that.
• 43:13
  And then you could put a chain in this pocket
• 43:15
  that goes over your shoulder to the other pocket.
• 43:19
  I don't know. Put your wallet. I'm thinking like
• 43:21
  a businessman. What else can I sell to these
• 43:23
  people? They love pockets. I want to fill them.
• 43:28
  You should also sell patch pockets. So it's like
• 43:32
  a piece. You can put it anywhere you want. So
• 43:34
  if you have a shirt and you're like, it's not
• 43:35
  a pocket tee, but I wish it was. That actually
• 43:37
  would be awesome if you could just go. Like,
• 43:39
  you could just take the pocket off and put it
• 43:41
  somewhere else. Yeah. It's like a Velcro shirt.
• 43:47
  It'd be so itchy. But you could put the pocket
• 43:49
  anywhere. Like, I love this pocket tee, but I
• 43:53
  wish the pocket was here. I love that. Yeah.
• 43:59
  Well, so with that said, I actually have a real
• 44:01
  question for you. OK. Not just about pockets?
• 44:05
  No, I am curious about that overall still. I'll
• 44:09
  refrain. Let me see if I can answer tonight's
• 44:11
  question as simple as possible. Okay. I think
• 44:15
  this is a pretty easy one. Or today. Today. They
• 44:19
  don't know. Well, we've already established this
• 44:21
  podcast only happens at 4 a .m. Yeah, that's
• 44:24
  true. So. Don't say it. So. I'm thinking about
• 44:31
  the word now. This is gonna throw me off. Oh,
• 44:34
  I wasn't. I wasn't. I'm thinking about it now.
• 44:37
  Don't. I won't. You have a question, think about
• 44:39
  that. I have a question for you. Okay. So, Adam
• 44:43
  and Eve. Yeah, I know him. Eve specifically.
• 44:46
  Yeah. Oh, that guy. Great at Yahtzee. Tell me
• 44:54
  about him. Yahtzee. Talk about apple pickers.
• 45:00
  Can they grow an orchard? They don't listen very
• 45:04
  well. No, can they? I mean, that's a question.
• 45:06
  That actually is a good question. Yeah But let's
• 45:09
  answer your question. But so Eve. Okay. Could
• 45:12
  Eve speak snake? Yes. Yes or no? Podcast over.
• 45:22
  See you next week. Thanks for listening guys.
• 45:24
  3, 2, 1. Gotcha. Could Eve speak snake? Could
• 45:32
  Eve speak snake? I feel like this is like a tongue
• 45:35
  twister. Could Eve speak snake? Sounds like a
• 45:37
  vocal warm -up. Could Eve speak snake? Could
• 45:40
  Eve speak snake? Mommy made me hash my M &M's.
• 45:51
  Could Eve speak snake? Could Eve speak snake?
• 45:55
  Could Eve speak snake? Oh boy. Some people already
• 46:01
  turned it off because we said the episode was
• 46:03
  over. Nice. Good, that's all I needed. Here we
• 46:07
  go. Could Eve speak snake? So what we're saying,
• 46:12
  what you're asking is in the garden, Eve is all
• 46:19
  of a sudden talking to what modern pop culture
• 46:25
  would say is just a snake that can talk. Yeah.
• 46:29
  So and they had they have a little back -and
• 46:31
  -forth kind of like in the jungle book. What
• 46:33
  was that snake's name? Shere Khan. I know that
• 46:36
  was the tiger maybe What was this was a snake
• 46:39
  but the snake was trying to eat the boy? Yeah,
• 46:43
  and then eventually they get the the boy out
• 46:45
  of the jungle. I can't think of his name right
• 46:47
  now Anyways, the jungle book based on Adam and
• 46:49
  Eve Yeah, the the monkey was like Bungaloo or
• 46:57
  something. Oh blue blue. He was a bear. There
• 47:00
  you go What's the Panthers name? I don't share
• 47:05
  color here. I think was it Bagheera. Yeah So
• 47:09
  yeah, maybe sure con is the I think that's the
• 47:11
  tiger Okay at the end. Oh You're right. Yeah,
• 47:17
  I can't read the snakes name Comment below. Yeah,
• 47:20
  what's the snakes name in the jungle book? Cuz
• 47:23
  he's Mowgli. Oh You're right It's Mowgli, Bagheera.
• 47:27
  This is really bothering you. Yeah, it is. Okay,
• 47:30
  I'm gonna let it go. Eve. Could Eve speak snake?
• 47:37
  Oh. So that opens up a lot of other questions.
• 47:43
  Because pop culture, current pop culture is really
• 47:46
  just like veggie tales. Yeah, like kids cartoons
• 47:49
  is like, but they probably made it like a chocolate
• 47:51
  Yeah, what what that's gummy worms No, that would
• 47:57
  be like anti veggies. Yeah. Well, they did like
• 48:00
  chocolate and some of theirs. How dare they I
• 48:03
  know was that in the The Babylon episodes. Yeah,
• 48:08
  that was the me shack. I checked me shack in
• 48:10
  a bed to go the bunny The bunny. Which isn't
• 48:15
  that kind of sad we called them by their slave
• 48:17
  names? Yeah, that's definitely a different episode.
• 48:21
  We should write that down. I think their Hebrew
• 48:25
  names were probably easier to say, aren't they?
• 48:28
  I don't know because I can't remember. Comment
• 48:29
  below their Hebrew names. Eve speak snake. That's
• 48:39
  definitely a t -shirt. It's a t -shirt? Yeah,
• 48:44
  so the question kind of comes from like the idea
• 48:48
  that like okay Eve is in the garden all the sudden
• 48:52
  she's talking to a snake. Yeah. We're reading
• 48:55
  into that big time because like for me I've never
• 48:58
  talked to a snake. Personally, I haven't either.
• 49:02
  Well, also, in the story, that's the first time
• 49:05
  you're seeing a snake. There aren't just snakes.
• 49:08
  It's a wild way to open up the book. It is. And
• 49:12
  we're talking about Genesis 3? Yeah, Genesis
• 49:17
  3. So pretty early. Yeah, the first two chapters,
• 49:22
  everything is made. And like, okay, so check
• 49:24
  this out. And then never again. but the idea
• 49:31
  is like okay so Eve talking to a snake it's hard
• 49:33
  to like unpack this without just spending the
• 49:36
  rest of the episode unpacking it but maybe that
• 49:40
  is what we're doing I guess that's kind of what
• 49:41
  we're here for so I think the first question
• 49:45
  is Eve doesn't seem surprised that's the first
• 49:52
  thing that strikes me that's not a question yeah
• 49:55
  because I mean she's not she just answers them
• 49:57
  it's like it strikes me that she's just like
• 49:59
  Oh, yeah, so uh anyway, yeah, she's just talking
• 50:02
  you're a snake and you're talking. Yeah. Yeah
• 50:05
  So maybe the first question that we should ask
• 50:08
  is is the translation correct? It's a good question
• 50:14
  is is she talking to a snake yeah, um, we could
• 50:19
  also get into like is she talking the way that
• 50:22
  we talk about talking Meaning like is she verbalizing
• 50:27
  sounds from her mouth because there are the thoughts
• 50:29
  that it's like oh, maybe there was like a telepathic
• 50:32
  Yeah, that like in which is still weird. There's
• 50:35
  a telepathic snake Yeah, well technically all
• 50:38
  things would have been telepathic right? How
• 50:41
  would all things be? I'm just saying like Eve
• 50:44
  would have also been communicating telepathically
• 50:46
  Yeah, that's true, but it would kind of solve
• 50:48
  the problem if it was an actual snake. Yeah that
• 50:51
  Eve is speaking Definitely English. Yeah, like
• 50:56
  Western American English. She was a blonde hair
• 50:59
  blue eye white American in the garden Southern
• 51:02
  California So Barbie she's Barbie so like anyway
• 51:10
  What are up with these apples wasn't with these
• 51:16
  apples snake are they gonna like make me smart
• 51:23
  Can I sell them? Can I sell them? No, but, okay,
• 51:28
  so like... To who? Well, that's the question,
• 51:34
  right? That's the other question! Who is she
• 51:36
  selling them to? Yeah, so like, okay, so Snake...
• 51:42
  The... Man, there's so many little... She sells
• 51:44
  apples by the seashore. Okay, let's actually
• 51:51
  talk about it. Yeah. um yeah so uh there's like
• 51:56
  you have to kind of take it apart piece by piece
• 51:58
  the reason why you have to take it apart piece
• 52:00
  by piece is because they're giving us so little
• 52:02
  in just this spot and we talked about on a previous
• 52:05
  episode the idea that like everything especially
• 52:08
  genesis like one through ten it's kind of um
• 52:12
  it's kind of answering the question what and
• 52:16
  why are we here yeah and and what's going on
• 52:20
  yeah like what like I'm looking around what's
• 52:23
  happening. Yeah. It's answering those questions.
• 52:26
  So as it answers those questions, it's doing
• 52:29
  it kind of as quickly as possible in the least
• 52:33
  amount of words it needs to. So all of the context
• 52:37
  must have been understood. Yeah, correct. So
• 52:41
  so in our modern translation, there's a bunch
• 52:45
  of like nuances and things that we kind of miss
• 52:47
  because you have in Genesis, especially in Genesis
• 52:51
  1 and 2, you have a lot more like poetic style
• 52:56
  literature in order to paint a picture with words.
• 53:01
  Yeah, yeah. So like because of that then you
• 53:04
  get to Genesis 3 and because we have the privilege
• 53:10
  of being able to read the rest of the Bible,
• 53:13
  we can inform Genesis 3 Going backwards from
• 53:17
  what we know at the end. Yeah. Yeah, so but the
• 53:21
  original reader They wouldn't have been able
• 53:23
  to do that except they already would have known
• 53:26
  the context, right? So they understand the world
• 53:29
  that's being talked about. Yeah, so if we go
• 53:32
  to that then we go alright The first question
• 53:35
  I have is like wait snake She's talking to a
• 53:39
  snake. So is she talking and the snake is just
• 53:43
  feeding? the information to her brain telepathically
• 53:46
  that makes the most sense until we start to go
• 53:51
  well what what was the original hebrew word for
• 53:56
  the snake yeah and i don't know if we want to
• 53:59
  jump to that yet but yeah i mean we could brush
• 54:03
  that quickly to you um but it The other thing
• 54:06
  I do want to say with that is I think it's like
• 54:09
  for us to say, oh, they're speaking telepathically
• 54:11
  is us reading into the text. Right. And so what
• 54:15
  we like to do is best we can is like, well, let's
• 54:17
  start with what it actually says. Yes. And it
• 54:20
  doesn't say that. Right. And so at the best I
• 54:22
  could also, if we want to believe that it causes
• 54:24
  so many other problems of like, OK, so that doesn't
• 54:27
  happen now. Yeah. So it's like, oh, that was
• 54:31
  a result of the fall. It's like, well, was it?
• 54:33
  Because God tells us what happened Yeah, like
• 54:36
  this is a result of the fall and the animals
• 54:39
  losing their telepathic ability isn't one of
• 54:41
  them. No, it's not so it's like, okay, so Let's
• 54:45
  start with what's actually written and so so
• 54:48
  Genesis 3 1 says now the serpent Was more crafty
• 54:54
  than any other beast of the field that the Lord
• 54:57
  God had made So he's introducing a character.
• 55:01
  Yeah, so he's not just saying The snake talked,
• 55:04
  right? He's saying, all right, new character
• 55:07
  on the scene, this character's important, let
• 55:10
  me develop him for you. It's gonna pay off, it's
• 55:14
  worth being in the story. Trust me here. Now
• 55:16
  the serpent was more crafty than any other beast
• 55:19
  of the field that the Lord God had made. He said
• 55:22
  to the woman, okay, so the serpent is male. He
• 55:29
  said to the woman, female. Did God actually say,
• 55:38
  we could stop right there and go, how does he
• 55:42
  know what God said? The serpent says, did God
• 55:48
  actually say, you shall not eat of any tree in
• 55:51
  the garden? So, the first thing he does is begin
• 55:57
  to contradict or, or sow a seed of descent of
• 56:06
  what God said, which means that he would have
• 56:10
  either had heard it, God say it, or he would
• 56:15
  have had a discussion with Eve about what God
• 56:19
  said, or someone told him what God had said.
• 56:27
  It's gotta be one of the three things. So does
• 56:30
  that like so then the question is well, how long
• 56:32
  was the serpent in the garden? But then it goes
• 56:35
  on and says and the woman said to the serpent
• 56:38
  We may eat of the fruit of the trees in the garden
• 56:42
  But God said you shall not eat of the fruit of
• 56:46
  the tree that is in the midst of the garden Neither
• 56:49
  shall you touch it. At least you die. So We could
• 56:53
  be missing the first part of this. Yeah, where
• 56:56
  Eve says God said We should not eat of any tree
• 57:04
  in the garden. Mm -hmm But why would she say
• 57:08
  that and then turn around and say the opposite?
• 57:10
  Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so that means that She didn't
• 57:14
  this conversation. We're not coming into the
• 57:16
  middle of a conversation. Yeah Well, and there's
• 57:19
  a good chance that we miss like hey, how's your
• 57:21
  day going? Pretty good. How about you snake?
• 57:24
  Yeah, good point So did God actually say yeah,
• 57:27
  but it's like that's not important Cause it's
• 57:29
  like, they're focused on what's the, what are
• 57:31
  the details here? What's the important stuff?
• 57:33
  Yeah. I mean, there's, it looks - So we're getting
• 57:35
  to the body of the conversation. It does look
• 57:37
  like we're coming into the middle of a conversation.
• 57:40
  Yeah. So like potentially the serpent and Eve
• 57:43
  are hanging out by the tree. Right. Or they've
• 57:47
  come across each other's paths. Yeah. Cause like
• 57:51
  if I was standing in the grocery store, for example,
• 57:54
  and someone just comes up to me like, So did
• 57:57
  the clerk actually say you can't steal from them?
• 58:00
  It was like, what are you talking about? My first
• 58:05
  response to a stranger coming up to me like,
• 58:07
  so did they actually say you can't buy anything
• 58:09
  in the store? I'd be like, who are you? They're
• 58:15
  like, what in the world? My response initially
• 58:19
  would not be to answer them. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 58:21
  Yeah. Yeah, of course. Because there's like,
• 58:23
  even the way she's talking, there's like a familiarity
• 58:25
  to that. There is. It's a pretty fluid conversation.
• 58:28
  Yeah. Yeah, so it must have started before that.
• 58:31
  Yeah. But here's the other thing that's interesting.
• 58:36
  The serpent is not in the tree. Yeah. And they
• 58:39
  are not at the tree. Yeah. Because it says, You
• 58:45
  shall not eat of any tree in the garden and the
• 58:47
  woman said to the serpent We may eat of the fruit
• 58:49
  of the trees in the garden But God said you shall
• 58:52
  not eat of the fruit of the tree that is in the
• 58:54
  midst of the garden Neither shall you touch it
• 58:58
  least you die. Yeah, so she's not at the tree
• 59:01
  because she like she's not she's not like And
• 59:08
  the serpents like hey did God say you couldn't
• 59:10
  eat any Why wouldn't he say, you can't eat of
• 59:14
  this tree? Yeah, yeah. He's not on the tree.
• 59:17
  So why are all of our depictions a snake around
• 59:20
  a branch? Wrapped around it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah,
• 59:23
  I mean, there's a lot to be said about that,
• 59:25
  especially when it comes to... And also, it would
• 59:26
  raise questions about her, too. Yeah. Because
• 59:29
  it's like, if she's like, you can't even touch
• 59:30
  it, well, then why is he coiled up around it?
• 59:33
  Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Because if that was her,
• 59:36
  I'd be like, wait a second. Yeah, it's almost
• 59:38
  like... Somebody artistically took all the ingredients
• 59:42
  and just put them on the same page. Yeah, how
• 59:44
  do you tell the one story altogether? Yeah, and
• 59:46
  just look at it all at once. Yeah Yeah, which
• 59:50
  makes sense. Yeah But it says so you shall not
• 59:54
  eat of the fruit of the tree that is in the midst
• 59:56
  of the garden Which is interesting because in
• 59:58
  the midst it doesn't say in the middle Yeah,
• 1:00:00
  so it's it's in the midst of the garden which
• 1:00:03
  is interesting language Because it It doesn't
• 1:00:09
  necessarily imply that it's one fixed tree in
• 1:00:13
  a specific location. It could potentially be
• 1:00:16
  talking about the tree of life, which the Bible
• 1:00:21
  says is Jesus. Interesting. All the Catholics
• 1:00:27
  just perked at you. That's a speculative conversion.
• 1:00:33
  conversation and not necessarily what's written
• 1:00:35
  right here. But it doesn't say in the middle,
• 1:00:38
  it says in the midst, right? So, neither shall
• 1:00:41
  you touch it, at least you die. But the serpent
• 1:00:43
  said to the woman, you will not surely die. The
• 1:00:47
  serpent says this, you will not surely die, for
• 1:00:50
  God knows that when you eat of it, your eyes
• 1:00:53
  will be opened and you will be like God, knowing
• 1:00:57
  good and evil. So when the woman saw that the
• 1:01:01
  tree was good for food, and that it was a delight
• 1:01:04
  to the to the eyes and that the tree was to be
• 1:01:08
  desired to make one wise she took of its fruit
• 1:01:12
  and ate so she saw that there was something to
• 1:01:15
  be gained by eating of the fruit she took of
• 1:01:19
  its fruit and ate and she also gave some to her
• 1:01:22
  husband who was with her and he ate they're assuming
• 1:01:26
  we know who her husband is yeah Then the eyes
• 1:01:31
  of both were opened and they knew that they were
• 1:01:34
  naked. So yeah, so in the middle of all of this,
• 1:01:40
  you have this moment of, oh, there is knowledge.
• 1:01:43
  There's something to be gained from this tree.
• 1:01:46
  It is appealing to me. Therefore, I will eat
• 1:01:50
  of it and gain what is appealing to me. I will
• 1:01:53
  grab it and it'll be mine. And it is funny. This
• 1:01:57
  is a total side point. To like what is actually
• 1:02:01
  being said and it's so interesting Especially
• 1:02:04
  when they line it up and actually when we go
• 1:02:06
  into even the word serpent In here, it's like
• 1:02:10
  the deception in the layers of it that get added
• 1:02:12
  on it's like it actually is pretty clever And
• 1:02:15
  it's funny cuz like I feel like so often for
• 1:02:18
  many of us we fall for the same lie repeatedly
• 1:02:20
  Yeah, which is did God actually say right and
• 1:02:23
  it's like and then followed by a lie. And then
• 1:02:27
  we start to engage with it. And then it gets
• 1:02:29
  to the point where it's like, oh, God knows good
• 1:02:31
  and evil. And it's like, that's not true. God
• 1:02:34
  knows good. We're the ones who know evil, because
• 1:02:37
  we now experience it. That's what they were doing.
• 1:02:40
  It's this experiential knowledge of depravity,
• 1:02:43
  of going against the Lord. And it's like, God
• 1:02:45
  doesn't know what that is. He just made that
• 1:02:48
  up. But it sounded good. And it sounded believable.
• 1:02:51
  That's interesting. So you're saying God doesn't
• 1:02:53
  know evil. In the sense of he's never committed
• 1:02:56
  evil. Sure. So he's not engaged in evil. Yeah.
• 1:03:01
  He knows about it. Like a conceptual side, but
• 1:03:04
  an experiential end of it. Yeah. God hasn't experienced
• 1:03:08
  evil. Right. Yeah. I mean, yeah. In the sense
• 1:03:11
  of him committing evil. Yeah. Sure. Yeah. But
• 1:03:15
  and there's like, there's, ah man. There's a
• 1:03:18
  lot even on just that side point. I know Well,
• 1:03:23
  because you know we talked in the last episode
• 1:03:26
  about The the temptation of Jesus. Yeah the temptation
• 1:03:31
  of Jesus The devil Says to him do this. Yeah,
• 1:03:39
  or I'll give you this if you do this, right in
• 1:03:44
  here the serpent is asking a question. Yeah.
• 1:03:50
  Instead of saying, do this, like, do this act.
• 1:03:54
  Yeah. At the beginning, the serpent is being
• 1:03:57
  cunning. Yeah. And it's trying to ask a question
• 1:04:02
  in such a way that would cause humanity to choose
• 1:04:09
  evil. Yeah. Not to be obedient to what the serpent
• 1:04:13
  is saying. Yeah. But instead, them coming up
• 1:04:17
  with it as if it's their own idea. Which is,
• 1:04:20
  and that's a level of culpability. Yeah. Where
• 1:04:23
  it's like if you're, if I'm being forced to rob
• 1:04:25
  a bank, like someone's grabbing my arms and like,
• 1:04:27
  brr, it's like, well, I'm not really guilty.
• 1:04:30
  Yeah. Cause I didn't have any say in this. Right.
• 1:04:32
  But it's like, no, they had say, they decided
• 1:04:34
  this was good. Yeah, they weren't being obedient
• 1:04:38
  to the serpent. Yeah. They were being disobedient
• 1:04:41
  to God. Yes, yeah. So they were being obedient
• 1:04:45
  to their own desires. Which means that sin is
• 1:04:49
  actually introduced, like temptation is here,
• 1:04:53
  and then sin bears fruit as they decide to serve
• 1:05:00
  themselves with something they see is good in
• 1:05:04
  their eyes. And that goes back to our conversation
• 1:05:07
  about our last episode. Where it's like they
• 1:05:12
  were the authority of earth. Yes, they were given
• 1:05:14
  dominion So they were the only ones that had
• 1:05:17
  the authority to introduce that right into to
• 1:05:20
  affect the whole world in that way because it
• 1:05:21
  was their responsibility Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and
• 1:05:25
  it's interesting even Taking taking the view
• 1:05:28
  of what does God do after he creates something
• 1:05:31
  he calls it good, right? And what does Eve do?
• 1:05:34
  She looks at the tree says I'm calling this good.
• 1:05:37
  Yeah Yeah, she's like no, this is good So when
• 1:05:41
  the woman saw that the tree was good for food,
• 1:05:44
  that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the
• 1:05:48
  tree was to be desired to make one wise. So it's
• 1:05:52
  implying that she didn't do that. She's like
• 1:05:55
  elevating her own idea of what is right and wrong.
• 1:05:58
  What is good and what is evil. But it also implies
• 1:06:01
  that she hadn't done this before. That there
• 1:06:05
  was a measure of knowledge given for her to even
• 1:06:09
  consider that that was good. And we've talked
• 1:06:13
  before about the concept of good being synonymous,
• 1:06:17
  especially in Genesis the beginning, with orderly.
• 1:06:21
  That when God calls it good, He's calling it
• 1:06:24
  orderly because it was chaos. So it was evil
• 1:06:29
  or it was bad, it was chaos, and He called it
• 1:06:34
  good or orderly. Yeah, He created the order.
• 1:06:38
  So like, this is, it's almost like she's saying,
• 1:06:45
  she's looking upon it and she's seeing that it
• 1:06:48
  is part of the order. And being a part of the
• 1:06:53
  order, it's something that she then feels she
• 1:06:55
  can partake in. Yeah, even though God told them,
• 1:06:59
  no that's chaos. Yes. Yeah, that's de -creation.
• 1:07:03
  Which is an interesting idea, that the tree of
• 1:07:07
  life the introduction or the possibility of chaos
• 1:07:12
  yeah yeah like sitting in the midst of the garden
• 1:07:17
  that's that's an episode that the tree itself
• 1:07:21
  is temptation yeah is an interesting idea and
• 1:07:25
  speculation on this it is but which is fun it
• 1:07:29
  is um but to get because we could do like a side
• 1:07:33
  episode of speculation on what these things are
• 1:07:36
  based on what you look at in ancient culture.
• 1:07:40
  Because there's very much a symbolic, philosophical
• 1:07:43
  view of it. Yeah, so when you look at ancient
• 1:07:50
  archaeological sites around the world, a lot
• 1:07:55
  of times they'll use a tree as a pathway or a
• 1:08:02
  portal from this life to the next. It shows up
• 1:08:08
  in a lot of ancient art. It shows up in a lot
• 1:08:12
  of ancient carvings. In temples, it shows up
• 1:08:15
  in those spaces where there's a tree and the
• 1:08:19
  tree is the movement from this life to the next.
• 1:08:22
  It is the pathway. So through the tree is the
• 1:08:26
  pathway. So there's like a side conspiracy speculation
• 1:08:33
  that that like this is not in the Bible. Yeah,
• 1:08:38
  this is our thoughts. This is finally us going
• 1:08:42
  like, hey, this is a fun thought, but this is
• 1:08:46
  not in the Bible. But like, yeah, like what if
• 1:08:51
  the tree itself was actually a portal from Earth
• 1:08:55
  to the heavens? Yeah. And so instead of them
• 1:08:59
  being on Earth and what they do on the Earth,
• 1:09:03
  they are essentially stuck on the earth. So like,
• 1:09:09
  what if, again, is it okay if we do this, Paul?
• 1:09:13
  That's up to you. I'm fine with it. I feel like
• 1:09:14
  I have to ask permission. I know. Part of me
• 1:09:17
  is like, I wanna talk about it, but I feel like
• 1:09:18
  it'll dominate the episode then. No, no, because
• 1:09:21
  I just wanna finish the thought and then we can
• 1:09:23
  get out of it. Okay, let's do that. It'll tease
• 1:09:25
  when we actually spend a full episode on it.
• 1:09:28
  Do you wanna do that? I kinda do. Okay. So then
• 1:09:31
  like teaser for for a speculation episode, but
• 1:09:34
  like what if the The tree of life itself and
• 1:09:39
  again, I'm gonna say it over and over again So
• 1:09:41
  it's like a almost like a watermark on a picture
• 1:09:44
  This is not in the Bible spec you it's not yeah.
• 1:09:48
  Yeah but based on what we see from of ancient
• 1:09:51
  artifacts and the understanding and the representation
• 1:09:53
  of what a tree was, movement from this life to
• 1:09:56
  the next. It could be that the tree in the garden
• 1:10:00
  was actually a portal from earth to heaven because
• 1:10:05
  Adam and Eve were confined to the earth. They
• 1:10:09
  could not pass from earth to heaven. And the
• 1:10:12
  reason why we would know this is because they
• 1:10:14
  don't go see God. God comes and sees them. So
• 1:10:18
  he comes down and walks with them in the cool,
• 1:10:20
  that's how it's, like the earth is his footstool.
• 1:10:23
  It's part of the cosmic temple. It's his footstool.
• 1:10:28
  And so he comes down and he, so if the tree is
• 1:10:32
  a portal to the heavens, then it would be them
• 1:10:34
  going up to the heavens without permission and
• 1:10:38
  leaving where they are supposed to steward. So
• 1:10:41
  leaving their job post without permission. So
• 1:10:44
  it's potentially that's interesting them accessing
• 1:10:47
  the heavens Almost the same way that Nimrod tries
• 1:10:51
  to with yeah babble Which is? Yeah, my brain
• 1:10:56
  went another direction with it to you. Okay,
• 1:10:59
  I should save it. Yeah. Yeah, I'm gonna save
• 1:11:00
  it so like that's this is like we're we're finally
• 1:11:04
  at a spot where like we might have a little bit
• 1:11:07
  more speculative episodes where we just like
• 1:11:09
  like warning, this is not. This isn't grounded.
• 1:11:13
  Yeah. Or we don't necessarily have footnotes
• 1:11:18
  for other people, other scholars that have gone
• 1:11:20
  this direction. Yeah. Yeah. But it is like, it's
• 1:11:23
  an interesting thing to think about. So let's
• 1:11:26
  go back to, let's go back to what we do know.
• 1:11:29
  Yeah. So, I mean, let's jump to the idea of the
• 1:11:31
  snake. Yeah. And I think it's, it's fun how they
• 1:11:35
  set it up to you, especially when you look at
• 1:11:37
  the Hebrew word. that's there for serpent. Yes.
• 1:11:40
  So he says, now the serpent was more crafty than
• 1:11:43
  any other beast of the field. Yes. Which is very
• 1:11:46
  interesting, that line in and of itself. Yeah,
• 1:11:48
  because that's the introduction. Yeah. And so
• 1:11:51
  what's fascinating is, even when we look at the
• 1:11:53
  word serpent, which in Hebrew is nakash. Yeah,
• 1:11:57
  or nahash. Nahash, yeah. That's where you want
• 1:12:00
  to go with it. You're more Hebrew deaf than I
• 1:12:05
  am. I'm not more Hebrew than you. You might be,
• 1:12:10
  I don't know. So in the root of that Hebrew word,
• 1:12:14
  it can actually be taken three different ways.
• 1:12:16
  It says a noun, a verb, or an adjective. So in
• 1:12:20
  its noun form, it means serpent. In its verb
• 1:12:25
  form, it means deceiver or diviner. Okay. And
• 1:12:29
  in its adjective form, it means shining one.
• 1:12:32
  Yeah. Or shining. Yeah. And so all three of those,
• 1:12:36
  this is something that would be, again, we've
• 1:12:38
  talked about this on a previous episode. It's
• 1:12:41
  like, that is intrinsic to the language of the
• 1:12:45
  words where it's like someone, an ancient Hebrew
• 1:12:48
  reading that would be like, oh yeah. Yeah. And
• 1:12:51
  it's like, yeah, I get it. But for us, we're
• 1:12:53
  like, It says serpent. Right. Now what's interesting
• 1:12:58
  is it kind of outlines, it kind of explains those
• 1:13:01
  other things slightly in saying like, well it's
• 1:13:04
  crafter than any other beast. It's like, well
• 1:13:06
  it's bringing up the fact that it's deceptive.
• 1:13:08
  Sure. And then it's also placing it in a category.
• 1:13:11
  Yeah. So it's like, it's kind of bringing that
• 1:13:13
  out in the text, but not in the same way with
• 1:13:16
  the same language we get from the root. Nahash
• 1:13:20
  right well and and also going back to and we've
• 1:13:23
  we talked about this a little bit Going into
• 1:13:26
  some of the genealogies. Yeah within Genesis
• 1:13:28
  1 through 10 and One of the things that's interesting
• 1:13:33
  here, too is Adam and Eve their names are representative
• 1:13:39
  of humanity at large Yeah, yeah, so like doesn't
• 1:13:44
  Adam mean human? Yeah, essentially. Essentially,
• 1:13:48
  yeah. Or man, which means human, I guess. Right.
• 1:13:52
  So you have this specific name that's representative
• 1:13:58
  of a general category. Yeah. And in this it says
• 1:14:03
  the serpent. So I think a lot of times it's like
• 1:14:08
  this specific serpent of representing serpents.
• 1:14:14
  Because it doesn't say like John, the serpent.
• 1:14:19
  You know what I mean? Yeah, it's true. But in
• 1:14:21
  the same way that Adam also means man, which
• 1:14:26
  is representative of humanity, it kind of goes
• 1:14:29
  to the question of the serpent. Are there other
• 1:14:33
  serpents? Yeah. But before we get there. Well,
• 1:14:37
  can I also say really quick on this while we're
• 1:14:40
  still in Genesis 3. I think the other question
• 1:14:44
  that I ask myself... Wait, wait. Hold on to that.
• 1:14:47
  Because I want to stay on Nahash for a second.
• 1:14:50
  Okay. Okay. So Nahash, like, I've... The Hebrew
• 1:14:55
  root word, root of the word Nehash, which refers
• 1:15:00
  to a serpent, is also the root, it's also the
• 1:15:03
  root of the Hebrew word for copper, brass, or
• 1:15:06
  bronze. Although they have distinct meanings,
• 1:15:09
  the connection between these words becomes apparent
• 1:15:11
  when considering the symbolic representation
• 1:15:14
  of serpents in the ancient world. Serpents were
• 1:15:17
  often associated with divinity, wisdom, and the
• 1:15:20
  idea of enlightenment, shining, or gleaming.
• 1:15:25
  In Hebrew, the word Nahash can also be interpreted
• 1:15:28
  as the shining one or the one who shines, which
• 1:15:32
  is where the connection with the term Nehachet.
• 1:15:36
  which is bronze, copper, brass, emerges. The
• 1:15:41
  international standard version, the ISV of the
• 1:15:46
  Bible, for example, translates Nahash as shining
• 1:15:50
  one. So in the ISV, Genesis 3 .1 reads, now the
• 1:15:56
  shining one was more clever than any animal of
• 1:16:00
  the field that the Lord God had made. That's
• 1:16:03
  interesting. It is, and I don't like how they
• 1:16:05
  translated animal instead of beasts. I agree,
• 1:16:08
  yeah. Beasts of the field instead of any animal
• 1:16:11
  of the field. Because I think that beast is a
• 1:16:14
  particular word. It is. Yeah. And it potentially
• 1:16:19
  doesn't mean animal. Yeah. Well, because I think,
• 1:16:23
  and I'll say this real quick, since you brought
• 1:16:25
  up the word animal. Yes. That's kind of where
• 1:16:27
  I was going. And it's like, let's think about
• 1:16:32
  it in this way, too. And this is kind of like
• 1:16:34
  a Argument of like this is kind of ridiculous.
• 1:16:37
  I just say that's the argument I'm about to make
• 1:16:40
  but it's like a ridiculous one We're giving we're
• 1:16:43
  giving a snake an animal if that's all it is.
• 1:16:47
  Oh, right a lot of credit So we're saying that
• 1:16:50
  an animal. Yeah has the power to ask questions
• 1:16:54
  like that, right? And it's like well There are
• 1:16:59
  some intelligent animals out there. Yeah, but
• 1:17:02
  I mean they're not gonna convince me of anything
• 1:17:05
  If they could talk sure so it's like we're saying
• 1:17:08
  that an animal Convinced to two humans essentially.
• 1:17:13
  Yeah to doom the whole earth. Yeah That's giving
• 1:17:17
  a lot of credit to like a tiny little nickel
• 1:17:19
  -sized brain animal. Yeah, it's also lessering
• 1:17:23
  the ID like it's lessening lessening the idea
• 1:17:26
  that Like so there are beasts of the field there
• 1:17:30
  are I'm not gonna call them animals. There are
• 1:17:33
  beasts of the field. Yeah Which means there are
• 1:17:36
  other things on the earth. Which is pretty important.
• 1:17:45
  So when you look at that and you go, it's just
• 1:17:48
  another beast. Then you go, okay, well when you
• 1:17:52
  say it's just another animal, that's degrading.
• 1:17:55
  When you say it's just another beast, that's
• 1:17:58
  potentially interesting in a way that's... Probably
• 1:18:02
  necessary to the story. Yeah because there's
• 1:18:06
  a lot of there's a lot of places like speaking
• 1:18:09
  of Speaking of Nimrod. Yeah. Yeah who yeah or
• 1:18:15
  speaking of the the future Nimrod Nebuchadnezzar
• 1:18:21
  who ends up going out and Becoming like a beast.
• 1:18:26
  Yeah That's like a did he turn into Like did
• 1:18:32
  he shape -shift and become a fox? You know what
• 1:18:35
  I mean? Right. Or does he become something that
• 1:18:39
  is closer to the beasts of the field than a human?
• 1:18:44
  Right. Yeah. So some yeah, so yeah, and if it's
• 1:18:48
  shape -shifting Then there's something else going
• 1:18:52
  on in that that space. It causes us to ask more
• 1:18:54
  questions. It does. Yeah, so different questions.
• 1:18:57
  So when we look at the Nahash or the Nakash It
• 1:19:01
  doesn't matter. I like Nahash. Well technically
• 1:19:04
  the H, you would say it with that sound. So it's
• 1:19:10
  easier to write it like that. Which is kind of
• 1:19:11
  fun to do. But when you look at that, the serpent
• 1:19:15
  or the shining one, there's references to that
• 1:19:20
  kind of throughout that become pretty important.
• 1:19:23
  Well I think one of the biggest things that I'm
• 1:19:25
  gonna tease now is I'm really happy you brought
• 1:19:28
  that up about it's reference to metals. Yes.
• 1:19:32
  Like that's a very specific category descriptor.
• 1:19:35
  Yes. That will be important later. How much later?
• 1:19:39
  Probably not very much further. Well, so I think
• 1:19:43
  the question that comes from this now is, and
• 1:19:47
  I'll make fun of ourselves in this, because before
• 1:19:50
  we're like, oh, people are saying it's telepathic.
• 1:19:53
  Well, that's reading into the text. Yeah. And
• 1:19:54
  now it's like, OK, you're saying that not only
• 1:19:57
  was this thing not a snake, But you're saying
• 1:20:00
  there's a lot of other things in the garden,
• 1:20:02
  aren't you reading into this? Yeah. Well, okay,
• 1:20:12
  let me do this first. Yeah, so maybe a little
• 1:20:16
  bit later. Let me do this first. So let's actually,
• 1:20:21
  like I said before, we have the advantage now
• 1:20:24
  of being able to jump to the end. and give ourselves
• 1:20:27
  context for what the beginning is actually saying.
• 1:20:31
  Because we weren't there when it was written,
• 1:20:34
  so we weren't in the proper context. So let's
• 1:20:38
  jump to the end, Revelation, and figure out who
• 1:20:44
  the serpent is. If there is something more specific
• 1:20:48
  going on with the serpent in the garden. So in
• 1:20:52
  Revelation 12, seven, it says, now war arose
• 1:20:56
  in heaven. Michael and his angels fighting against
• 1:20:59
  the dragon. And the dragon and his angels fought
• 1:21:03
  back, but he was defeated and there was no longer
• 1:21:07
  any place for them in heaven. And the great dragon
• 1:21:11
  was thrown down. That ancient serpent who is
• 1:21:16
  called the devil and Satan. the deceiver of the
• 1:21:21
  whole world, he was thrown down to the earth
• 1:21:25
  and his angels were thrown down with him. Yeah.
• 1:21:29
  So, this is Genesis 3. Yeah. When you think about
• 1:21:32
  that, even, it's like, that ancient serpent's
• 1:21:35
  like, okay, that puts my mind somewhere. Right.
• 1:21:38
  And then it says he was the deceiver of the whole
• 1:21:40
  world. Deceiver of the whole world. Well, who
• 1:21:42
  did he deceive? He deceived mankind. The whole
• 1:21:45
  world. Yeah. So, and when did he do it? Genesis
• 1:21:50
  3 when he deceived the whole world yeah through
• 1:21:55
  Adam and Eve yeah humanity yeah right yeah who
• 1:22:01
  had dominion over the whole world yeah yeah yeah
• 1:22:05
  and what did the whole world look like at that
• 1:22:07
  time yeah like so okay so The ancient, we're
• 1:22:12
  like almost to that. We're so close. I know.
• 1:22:15
  But I'm glad you're here. The ancient serpent
• 1:22:17
  who is called the devil and Satan. And he's called
• 1:22:21
  the devil and Satan at different points. So it's
• 1:22:25
  kind of cool because John in this vision is basically
• 1:22:31
  tying the whole Bible together and going, hey,
• 1:22:34
  this is all the same guy. Yeah. This is all the
• 1:22:38
  same being, right? Yeah, it points back to an
• 1:22:42
  original rebel. I'm gonna put it that way. Yeah,
• 1:22:45
  so like the the original like Where where it
• 1:22:49
  came from in the first place? Yeah. Yeah, so
• 1:22:52
  so then we go alright well back to Genesis 3
• 1:22:55
  well Genesis 3 is The serpent that's the first
• 1:22:59
  time we're introduced to him and we say alright
• 1:23:02
  the serpent is The Nahash which could be serpent
• 1:23:07
  or the shining one And how about we go to 2 Corinthians
• 1:23:12
  11, 14, where Paul says, and no wonder, let me
• 1:23:23
  go to 13. So 2 Corinthians 11, 13, for such men
• 1:23:27
  are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising
• 1:23:30
  themselves as apostles of Christ, and no wonder,
• 1:23:33
  for even Satan disguises himself as an angel
• 1:23:37
  of light. So what does that reference? Yeah,
• 1:23:43
  well, he probably did it more Than once and is
• 1:23:47
  continuing to do it. Yeah, because it says for
• 1:23:50
  even Satan disguises that's active Himself as
• 1:23:55
  an angel of light. Well, when did when do we
• 1:23:57
  know he did it at least? pretty close to the
• 1:24:00
  first time How about Genesis 3 when when the
• 1:24:04
  serpent or Satan or the devil the ancient serpent,
• 1:24:12
  disguises himself as the shining one. Yeah. In
• 1:24:17
  the garden. So he's disguising himself in the
• 1:24:21
  garden as a serpent. And essentially, they're
• 1:24:23
  even saying he's as an angel of light. Right.
• 1:24:25
  So it's like, oh. So does that mean that the
• 1:24:28
  serpent? There's a lot of language in there.
• 1:24:30
  Yeah. So is the Nahash an angel of light? And
• 1:24:33
  so there's actually a few verses that I have
• 1:24:36
  written down. OK. that apply to this, and I was
• 1:24:39
  looking at the same language. The big thing in
• 1:24:44
  particular is like, okay, we see how our angels
• 1:24:47
  described. What do they look like? And in particular,
• 1:24:52
  a few verses that I have here, this is Ezekiel
• 1:24:56
  1 -4. And it says, as I looked, behold, a stormy
• 1:25:01
  wind came. out of the north, and a great cloud
• 1:25:04
  with brightness around it, and fire flashing
• 1:25:07
  forth continually, and in the midst of the fire,
• 1:25:10
  as it were, gleaming metal." And he's referring
• 1:25:13
  to seeing an angel, for lack of a better term,
• 1:25:17
  right now. Sure, a being. A being, yeah. And
• 1:25:20
  even when we go to Psalm 104, it says, he makes
• 1:25:23
  his messengers, he being the Lord, wins his ministers
• 1:25:27
  a flaming fire. It's like, oh, okay, so now there's
• 1:25:29
  fire. Exodus 3 to in the angel the Lord appeared
• 1:25:34
  to him in a flame of fire and out of the midst
• 1:25:36
  of a bush he looked and Behold the bush was burning
• 1:25:39
  yet. It was not consumed. It's like, okay lots
• 1:25:41
  of fire lots of light Yeah, now let's jump back
• 1:25:45
  to Ezekiel 8 to I read those out of order slightly
• 1:25:48
  Then I looked I being Ezekiel and behold a form
• 1:25:52
  that had the appearance of a man Below what appeared
• 1:25:56
  to be his waist was fire Above his waist was
• 1:26:00
  something like the appearance of brightness like
• 1:26:02
  gleaming metal. Mm -hmm. It's like, oh Yeah,
• 1:26:07
  that's interesting So it's like when we see the
• 1:26:12
  descriptors of what these beings look like Yeah,
• 1:26:16
  the as as he says a living creature Right. It's
• 1:26:19
  like well, there's a lot of light a lot of metal.
• 1:26:23
  Mm -hmm and fire right Yeah We're not talking
• 1:26:34
  about the same being every single time, but we
• 1:26:36
  see very similar descriptors. We're also looking
• 1:26:42
  at the fact that the serpent, the ancient serpent,
• 1:26:46
  the devil, Satan, disguises him as the deceiver.
• 1:26:49
  So he's not just the deceiver in that he makes
• 1:26:52
  people or brings them questions like he brought
• 1:26:57
  Eve, which is to get us, get people to then go
• 1:27:04
  against the law of God on their own. It's not
• 1:27:08
  just that deception, but instead also masquerading
• 1:27:12
  as an angel of light. he actually disguises himself
• 1:27:17
  to appear as something that he's not. Well, we
• 1:27:21
  see Jesus even saying something similar about
• 1:27:24
  that disguising where he says, and don't preach
• 1:27:27
  any of your gospel, whether a man tells you or
• 1:27:30
  an angel tells you. Yeah. And it's like, oh,
• 1:27:33
  that's what he's talking about. Yeah, exactly.
• 1:27:36
  So then I feel like we have to talk about Isaiah
• 1:27:39
  14. Yeah. from What what verse let me pull it
• 1:27:50
  up because there's yeah because in Isaiah 14
• 1:27:55
  you have a pretty pretty direct description of
• 1:27:59
  this as well in this specific instance and something
• 1:28:03
  interesting that happens through Ezekiel and
• 1:28:05
  Isaiah is that you get these descriptions of
• 1:28:09
  You get these descriptions of essentially the
• 1:28:13
  ancient serpent or a like lowercase g God that
• 1:28:22
  or a prince of the air that is that that the
• 1:28:29
  Lord is speaking to as if like like the the way
• 1:28:34
  it happens is like I am I Become not an angel,
• 1:28:41
  but I become the human messenger and the one
• 1:28:44
  that's speaking through me is the Lord. And I'm
• 1:28:47
  speaking to you who is the human representative
• 1:28:51
  of the other entity. So it's this image of, especially
• 1:28:59
  in Ezekiel. Which is what you're referring to
• 1:29:02
  with this mostly. Yeah, in Isaiah as well. Yeah,
• 1:29:06
  I would say starting in, I mean even verse 12
• 1:29:08
  is a good place to start. Yeah, so the setup
• 1:29:13
  of this though is, is when the Lord has given
• 1:29:17
  you rest from your pains, verse three, Isaiah
• 1:29:21
  14, verse three, when the Lord has given you
• 1:29:23
  rest from your pain and turmoil and the hard
• 1:29:26
  service with which you were made to serve, you
• 1:29:29
  will take up this taunt against the King of Babylon.
• 1:29:34
  So this is Isaiah speaking to the remnant. of
• 1:29:39
  Israel, so those that are left from Israel that
• 1:29:44
  are in Babylon. It says, he will give you rest
• 1:29:49
  and you will take up this taunt against the king
• 1:29:52
  of Babylon. Well, what he then says and goes
• 1:29:56
  on to say doesn't sound like he's talking to
• 1:30:00
  the person. It sounds like he's talking to the
• 1:30:02
  entity behind the person. And that's one of the
• 1:30:05
  things that we've talked about this before, but
• 1:30:08
  the princes of the air, the rulers, the spirit,
• 1:30:12
  the principalities and powers and the rulers
• 1:30:16
  of the air of which Jesus says that Satan is
• 1:30:21
  the prince. overall, the rulers of the air, you
• 1:30:27
  have this image where it's like it almost starts
• 1:30:31
  from the man, the king, the one that they can
• 1:30:33
  see, and starts to shift up to the entity behind
• 1:30:37
  them, right? So that was verse three kind of
• 1:30:40
  setting that up. Yeah, and then picking up in
• 1:30:43
  verse 12, it says, how you were fallen from heaven,
• 1:30:48
  O day star, son of dawn, how you cut down to
• 1:30:52
  the ground, you who laid the nations low. You
• 1:30:55
  said in your heart, I will ascend to heaven,
• 1:30:58
  above the stars of God, I will set my throne
• 1:31:00
  on high, I will sit on the mount of assembly.
• 1:31:04
  In the far reaches of the north, I will ascend
• 1:31:07
  above the heights of the clouds, I will make
• 1:31:09
  myself like the Most High. But you are brought
• 1:31:14
  down to Sheol, to the far reaches of the pit.
• 1:31:18
  Those who see you will stare at you and ponder
• 1:31:21
  over you. Is this the man who made the earth
• 1:31:24
  tremble? Who shook the kingdoms? Who made the
• 1:31:27
  world like a desert and overthrew its cities?
• 1:31:30
  Who did not let his prisoners go home? All the
• 1:31:34
  kings of the nations lie in glory each in his
• 1:31:37
  own tomb But you are cast out away from your
• 1:31:41
  grave like a loathed branch Clothed with the
• 1:31:45
  slain those pierced by the sword who go down
• 1:31:48
  to the stones of the pit like a dead body trampled
• 1:31:51
  underfoot." And it continues on from there. Yeah.
• 1:31:56
  Yeah. So like you have this image of, you said
• 1:32:00
  in your heart, I will ascend to heaven above
• 1:32:02
  the stars of God. I will set my throne on high.
• 1:32:06
  I will sit on the mount of assembly in the far
• 1:32:09
  reaches of the north. I will ascend above the
• 1:32:12
  heights of the cloud. I will make myself like
• 1:32:15
  the Most High. It's even fastening further down
• 1:32:18
  that right there is like, whoa Yeah, but even
• 1:32:21
  further down we look at this in the idea of like
• 1:32:23
  who is he actually talking to sure in verse 18
• 1:32:26
  It says all the kings of the nation's lying glory
• 1:32:29
  each in his own tomb But you are cast out away
• 1:32:34
  from your grave. Mm -hmm. It's like well, hold
• 1:32:37
  on They seem like he's talking about two different
• 1:32:41
  things. Yeah Yeah, he's like all the kings They
• 1:32:46
  go over here. But you, you're different. You
• 1:32:49
  go over here. Yeah. So is it not a human king?
• 1:32:53
  Right. So we're not talking to the king of Babylon
• 1:32:55
  anymore? Yeah. Or are we talking to the king
• 1:32:58
  of Babylon? Yeah. But the actual... There's a
• 1:33:01
  subtext to what's being happening. A backstory.
• 1:33:03
  Yeah, because you have the imagery that Paul
• 1:33:07
  gives us in Ephesians that there are... that
• 1:33:10
  we do not fight against flesh and blood. That's
• 1:33:12
  all over the Old Testament. It's all over the
• 1:33:15
  Old Testament. This is a perfect example of like,
• 1:33:18
  I don't think he's talking about a human anymore.
• 1:33:21
  He's talking about who's behind the human, which
• 1:33:25
  leads into a bunch of different things. But Ezekiel
• 1:33:29
  28, this kind of gets wild, too. This is what
• 1:33:32
  I've been waiting for. Yeah, Ezekiel 28, starting
• 1:33:36
  in verse 11. So this is speaking to the King
• 1:33:40
  of Tyre, and it's a lament over the King of Tyre,
• 1:33:44
  who was a real person. And I will say for context,
• 1:33:48
  previously it's a lament over the Prince of Tyre.
• 1:33:52
  You mean on a previous episode? Of the Bible?
• 1:33:57
  Previously on the Bible. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So
• 1:34:00
  the chapter starts with the prophecy against
• 1:34:02
  the Prince of Tyre. And the reason I bring that
• 1:34:05
  up is because now we're talking about the Prince
• 1:34:07
  of Tyre than immediately the King of Tyre. Right.
• 1:34:10
  Yeah, because up in the verse 1, because your
• 1:34:15
  heart is proud and you have said, I am a god,
• 1:34:18
  I sit in the seat of the gods in the heart of
• 1:34:21
  the seas, yet you are but a man and no god, though
• 1:34:24
  you make your heart like the heart of a god.
• 1:34:27
  You are indeed wiser than Daniel. No secret is
• 1:34:30
  hidden from you. By your wisdom and your understanding,
• 1:34:32
  you have made wealth for yourself and have gathered
• 1:34:35
  gold and silver into your treasuries. By your
• 1:34:38
  great wisdom in your trade, you have increased
• 1:34:40
  your wealth and your heart has become proud in
• 1:34:42
  your wealth. Therefore, thus says the Lord God,
• 1:34:45
  because you make your heart like the heart of
• 1:34:47
  a God, not the heart of God, the heart of a God.
• 1:34:51
  Therefore, behold, I will bring foreigners upon
• 1:34:53
  you and the most ruthless of the nation. And
• 1:34:56
  I'm going to jump ahead. And it's interesting
• 1:34:58
  there because. to really emphasize this point.
• 1:35:00
  He's saying, you want to be like a god, but you're
• 1:35:04
  a man. You're just a human. And then we get here.
• 1:35:07
  Yeah, and then jumping down to verse 11, it says,
• 1:35:20
  Thus says the Lord you were the signet of perfection
• 1:35:24
  full of wisdom and perfect in beauty You were
• 1:35:28
  in Eden the garden of God Every precious stone
• 1:35:34
  was your covering Sardis topaz and diamond Barrel
• 1:35:42
  he well I was gonna say I was gonna it names
• 1:35:45
  other gyms. Yes, but I was just going to stop
• 1:35:49
  and go back to, you were in Eden. Yeah. What?
• 1:35:55
  Yeah. Hey, Ezekiel, say this to the King of Tyre.
• 1:36:04
  Okay. Well, we just talked to the Prince of Tyre
• 1:36:07
  and the Prince of Tyre, he's a human, but the
• 1:36:10
  King of Tyre apparently was in Eden. Yeah. The
• 1:36:15
  garden of God. This is not like, the thing about
• 1:36:20
  this is when you look at this, it says moreover
• 1:36:23
  the word of the Lord came to me. This is not
• 1:36:27
  him speculating. This is him restating, writing
• 1:36:34
  down what the Lord said. Yahweh is saying this.
• 1:36:41
  You are the signet of perfection, speaking of
• 1:36:44
  the king of Tyre, which, clearly in Deuteronomy
• 1:36:50
  32 fashion, in Ephesians fashion, this is a lowercase
• 1:36:58
  G God. Whereas before he said the man is actually
• 1:37:02
  but a man, not a God who you're pretending to
• 1:37:06
  be. Now I'm going to speak to the lowercase G
• 1:37:09
  God that is behind you. I'm going to speak to
• 1:37:13
  him directly. You were the signet of perfection,
• 1:37:16
  full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. You were
• 1:37:18
  in Eden, the garden of God. Every precious stone
• 1:37:21
  was your covering. And jumping down on the day
• 1:37:24
  that you were created, they were prepared. You
• 1:37:28
  were an anointed guardian cherub. I placed you.
• 1:37:34
  You were on the holy mountain of God in the midst
• 1:37:38
  of the stones of fire you walked. You were blameless
• 1:37:44
  in your ways from the day you were created till
• 1:37:47
  unrighteousness was found in you wait So the
• 1:37:53
  king of Tyre Definitely talking about a lowercase
• 1:37:58
  G God Potentially a Cherub no no definitely an
• 1:38:07
  anointed guardian Cherub now is this talking
• 1:38:10
  about the ancient serpent. Well, can I bring
• 1:38:14
  up another question first? Do it. Because some
• 1:38:17
  of you that may be more studied that are listening
• 1:38:19
  might be like, well, hold on a second. Yeah.
• 1:38:24
  And it's fair to do that because reading this
• 1:38:29
  passage in particular, there is a majority view
• 1:38:32
  that doesn't view it as a divine being. But they
• 1:38:37
  actually look at this and they see a correlation
• 1:38:41
  between this and talking about Adam. And most
• 1:38:46
  of that reading comes from the Septuagint reading,
• 1:38:50
  and because it reads this, it reads, I placed
• 1:38:53
  you with the cherub in the holy mountain of God.
• 1:38:57
  Now the Masoretic text reads differently from
• 1:38:59
  the Septuagint into what we're reading here.
• 1:39:04
  And it doesn't... indicate Adam there at all.
• 1:39:07
  But the other interesting thing about this that
• 1:39:08
  I think go against, because I'm not in agreement
• 1:39:10
  with the majority view of this, and there's a
• 1:39:13
  few reasons why. That's one of them as far as
• 1:39:16
  like the Masoretic versus the Septuagint readings
• 1:39:18
  of it. And Paul, what's the Septuagint? That's
• 1:39:21
  the Greek translation of the Bible. And the Greek
• 1:39:24
  translation of the Bible was commissioned for
• 1:39:32
  the library. of a king who was developing a library
• 1:39:37
  of all religions on the earth trying to put together
• 1:39:43
  what all people said about their gods. That's
• 1:39:49
  why the Septuagint was translated into Greek.
• 1:39:54
  I actually didn't know that. That's interesting.
• 1:39:56
  That's good to know. So a non -Jewish person
• 1:40:01
  said, I want to develop a library and I want
• 1:40:05
  all of the religious texts in this library. So
• 1:40:11
  go ahead and do the same thing with the Hebrew
• 1:40:13
  text. That's why the Septuagint was created.
• 1:40:16
  That's fascinating. Yeah. Yeah. So it's like
• 1:40:21
  the King James a little bit. Uh oh. You said
• 1:40:24
  it. We were all thinking of you. I did. Although
• 1:40:28
  the King James sings. It does sing. It does sing.
• 1:40:32
  It's quite beautiful. Respect to the King James.
• 1:40:36
  We don't honor you, but... But I'm happy you're
• 1:40:39
  here. Happy you're here. So yeah, so with that...
• 1:40:43
  I mean, we honor, you know... We honor the Lord.
• 1:40:46
  Yeah. But not King James. He was a terrible person.
• 1:40:50
  Yeah. He also commissioned the Bible to gain
• 1:40:53
  some support. And the death of the man who translated
• 1:40:57
  it or printed it. Yeah. And many other people.
• 1:41:02
  And he didn't stop there. He killed a lot of
• 1:41:04
  people. Yeah. So yeah, so with that, it's like...
• 1:41:08
  What lowercase g god was behind him? Same one.
• 1:41:12
  Okay, now we're really... Now we're really...
• 1:41:14
  Speculation! Well, because King James was actually
• 1:41:18
  not just... He would have been the head of...
• 1:41:22
  England but also the head of the church the way
• 1:41:24
  that the yeah because he was starting to seize
• 1:41:27
  some power no no just like that was the way that
• 1:41:30
  Europe was designed well that was after the seize
• 1:41:32
  of power because originally yes Pope was actually
• 1:41:35
  the real leader yeah he was under the Pope you're
• 1:41:37
  right and then there was a flip yeah but yeah
• 1:41:41
  so in this like that's the Septuagint reading
• 1:41:43
  versus the Masoretic I'm more in line with the
• 1:41:46
  Masoretic reading of it And for a couple of the
• 1:41:48
  reasons, too. The other one is this talks about
• 1:41:50
  the hubris or the pride of this character they're
• 1:41:53
  talking about. Oh, yeah. And that is completely
• 1:41:56
  absent from any image we get in Genesis or any
• 1:41:59
  other passage in Scripture about Adam. There's
• 1:42:02
  never a talk about, oh, his pride of him being
• 1:42:04
  so beautiful and the best. And he's like, you
• 1:42:06
  know what? Actually, that image isn't there.
• 1:42:09
  So it's like, how can we talk about Adam's pride?
• 1:42:12
  when the Bible never does. So that's a correlation
• 1:42:15
  that can't be made. And the other one, the final
• 1:42:18
  nail in the coffin for me on this, is I'll go
• 1:42:22
  as far as to say every scholar, I've never heard
• 1:42:25
  anyone disagree with this statement, that there
• 1:42:27
  is a very close relationship between Ezekiel
• 1:42:30
  28 and Isaiah 14, which we had just read. And
• 1:42:34
  they don't deny that connection at all, but they
• 1:42:38
  disregard The differences in their reading because
• 1:42:41
  they'll read Isaiah 14 the way we talk about
• 1:42:44
  it, right? Then they read then they read it Ezekiel
• 1:42:46
  28 completely isolated even though they say yeah,
• 1:42:49
  there's definitely a connection here Well, I
• 1:42:50
  would ask this question. When does the naturalization
• 1:42:53
  of Scripture begin? Mmm, cuz like one of the
• 1:42:56
  things that we talk about a lot is having a spiritual
• 1:43:00
  worldview. Yeah and looking at the Bible and
• 1:43:03
  going, what is going on here spiritually? What's
• 1:43:06
  happening on the other side of the veil that's
• 1:43:09
  influencing? Because it seems like the biblical
• 1:43:14
  writers are writing almost more about that than
• 1:43:19
  what's affecting on the earth. It's kind of like,
• 1:43:23
  and even right here, you're going between like,
• 1:43:26
  all right, here's who we can see. The Lord says
• 1:43:28
  talk to them that you can see. Now talk to the
• 1:43:31
  person you can't see who's actually running everything.
• 1:43:35
  And you see that over and over and over again.
• 1:43:37
  But a lot of the naturalization of stuff comes
• 1:43:39
  with the Hellenization. So the Greek culture.
• 1:43:46
  And so that's where the - That's the birth of
• 1:43:48
  logic and the philosophers. Which is where the
• 1:43:51
  Septuagint comes from. So it would make sense
• 1:43:55
  that all of a sudden you're getting a naturalist
• 1:43:57
  reading into this spiritual passage that's looking
• 1:44:04
  beyond what we can see. You know what I mean?
• 1:44:07
  So the historical layout of that actually makes
• 1:44:10
  a lot of sense that they would just insert Adam
• 1:44:12
  into this and go, they can't be talking about
• 1:44:15
  - Because I don't like it. Because what this
• 1:44:18
  says, so that was a really good aside, it gives
• 1:44:20
  some context. So then, okay, so it keeps going.
• 1:44:24
  Ezekiel 28, 14. I just love this passage because
• 1:44:27
  it's like, this is, there's so much going on
• 1:44:30
  here. And to be completely honest, to be completely
• 1:44:32
  honest, this for me really answers the question
• 1:44:40
  subtext of your original question. Which, what
• 1:44:44
  was your original question? Did Eve talk snake?
• 1:44:50
  Did Eve talk a snake? Talk in snake Yeah, okay,
• 1:45:02
  so What this and the reason why this excites
• 1:45:04
  me is because it starts to paint this image.
• 1:45:06
  Yeah that is like pretty unique like it doesn't
• 1:45:09
  we don't have this image a lot of other places
• 1:45:12
  actually in the scriptures so you were in Eden
• 1:45:16
  the garden of God every precious stone was your
• 1:45:19
  covering on the day that you were created they
• 1:45:23
  were prepared you were an anointed guardian cherub
• 1:45:27
  so the Lord is saying this king of Tyre or whoever
• 1:45:33
  he's speaking directly to They were an anointed
• 1:45:38
  guardian cherub. And some people would speculate
• 1:45:40
  like this probably isn't talking about the ancient
• 1:45:46
  serpent, the devil, Satan. Which is almost way
• 1:45:51
  more interesting to me. Yeah, I agree. So he's
• 1:45:54
  saying, you were an anointed guardian, cherub.
• 1:45:56
  I placed you. You were on the holy mountain of
• 1:45:59
  God in the midst of the stones of fire you walked.
• 1:46:03
  You were blameless in your ways from the day
• 1:46:05
  you were created till unrighteousness was found
• 1:46:08
  in you. So I'm going to stop and say a lot right
• 1:46:11
  there. Yeah, because because what this means
• 1:46:13
  is if this is not the Satan, if this is not the
• 1:46:20
  ancient serpent, then it is a cherub yeah and
• 1:46:25
  here's the thing we know that at minimum we know
• 1:46:30
  from Genesis 3 that uh there were at least two
• 1:46:35
  cherub yeah that guarded the gates correct when
• 1:46:39
  God shut the gates to Eden yeah he puts the cherub
• 1:46:44
  there so at the east and the west gate wasn't
• 1:46:46
  it yeah So he puts the cherub there and the cherub
• 1:46:50
  are guarding the gates. So those cherub either
• 1:46:54
  just magically appear or they were already there
• 1:46:56
  and they were guardian cherub, right? But this
• 1:47:01
  is talking about an anointed guardian cherub
• 1:47:05
  that the Lord himself placed in on the holy mountain
• 1:47:10
  of God. And it doesn't say after I shut the gates.
• 1:47:17
  And if this is not the ancient serpent, then
• 1:47:23
  it's someone else. Right. And potentially one
• 1:47:28
  of many. Yeah. Which would make sense in the
• 1:47:32
  Deuteronomy 32, princes of the air, the sons
• 1:47:35
  of God, the... It makes sense in all of these
• 1:47:39
  things. But, okay, so... Yeah. But then it says...
• 1:47:43
  I place you, you are on the holy mountain of
• 1:47:45
  God in the midst of the stones of fire you walked.
• 1:47:46
  You were blameless in your ways from the day
• 1:47:49
  you were created till unrighteousness was found
• 1:47:51
  in you. So a cherub can sin? Yeah. Are we sure?
• 1:47:58
  That's what it's telling us. That's what God
• 1:47:59
  says. Yeah. Right here. So a cherub can sin.
• 1:48:06
  And that's one thing that shouldn't surprise
• 1:48:08
  us too much because we see that even later in
• 1:48:11
  Jude, and we see that in 2 Peter, where it's
• 1:48:14
  like, yeah, they do fall. So the next verse says,
• 1:48:19
  in the abundance of your trade, you were filled
• 1:48:22
  with violence in your midst, and you sinned.
• 1:48:27
  Yeah. Boom. Pretty straightforward. So you didn't
• 1:48:30
  have to jump around. No. So I cast you as a profane
• 1:48:36
  thing from the mountain of God. And I destroyed
• 1:48:40
  you, O guardian cherub, from the midst of the
• 1:48:44
  stones of fire. Your heart was proud because
• 1:48:48
  of your beauty. You corrupted your wisdom for
• 1:48:51
  the sake of your splendor. I cast you to the
• 1:48:55
  ground. I exposed you before kings to feast their
• 1:48:59
  eyes on you. by the multitude of, there's no
• 1:49:03
  time jump. So there are kings that are witnessing
• 1:49:08
  this. Who are these kings? Well, if this is the
• 1:49:11
  king of Tyre, then presumably it's other cherub.
• 1:49:19
  Or it's lowercase kings here, and potentially
• 1:49:23
  just human rulers. I think with the language
• 1:49:29
  of it though, I think there's a case to be made
• 1:49:30
  that it is talking about other cherubs. Especially
• 1:49:34
  when we look at, there's a phrase that's been
• 1:49:36
  used twice in here, in this passage, and it's
• 1:49:38
  stones of fire. And I find it interesting first,
• 1:49:43
  even just in the English grammar that we see
• 1:49:45
  in this, it says, I placed you, I being God,
• 1:49:49
  semicolon, on the holy mountain of God, semicolon,
• 1:49:54
  in the midst of the stones of fire you walked.
• 1:49:57
  And it's like, okay, it's getting more specific
• 1:50:00
  as it's going on, and it's adding new details
• 1:50:02
  to every single piece of it. And so what's interesting
• 1:50:06
  is, and this goes back to earlier when we talked
• 1:50:08
  about descriptors, it's like, well, stones of
• 1:50:12
  fire is a very, very interesting word picture
• 1:50:18
  to place. And it's like, well, what else do we
• 1:50:20
  see described as fire? Cause it's like, it's
• 1:50:22
  one of those things to look at this and go, oh,
• 1:50:24
  it's talking about like, a fiery mountain, maybe?
• 1:50:27
  Well, it says in the midst of the stones of fire
• 1:50:30
  you walked. Yeah. You were blameless. And if
• 1:50:33
  we put it at the mountain of God, the stones
• 1:50:36
  of fire, it's like, okay, let's just take that
• 1:50:38
  for how we could read it. And then it's talking
• 1:50:41
  about a fiery mountain. It's like, okay, so we
• 1:50:43
  should see this in other places in Scripture.
• 1:50:45
  Right. Well, it's like, well, what do we see
• 1:50:46
  in other places in Scripture? There's only, there's
• 1:50:51
  one main mountain. that's talked about as being
• 1:50:54
  fiery, and that's Mount Sinai. I don't think
• 1:50:57
  he's talking about Mount Sinai. That doesn't
• 1:50:59
  come in, that's not what he's talking about here.
• 1:51:02
  There's no reference there. But the other place
• 1:51:05
  is Revelation 8 .8. And I just want to read that
• 1:51:09
  real quick. I don't know if you expected this.
• 1:51:12
  No, I didn't. And I don't want to hijack what
• 1:51:15
  you have. But I'll walk through this quick. I
• 1:51:19
  have nothing. I have nothing to offer. It highlights
• 1:51:23
  what you're getting into. And so Revelation 8
• 1:51:26
  .8 reads this way, the second angel blew his
• 1:51:29
  trumpet and something like a great mountain burning
• 1:51:32
  with fire was thrown into the sea and a third
• 1:51:36
  of the sea became blood. Now it's interesting
• 1:51:39
  in here because it's very common to see mountains,
• 1:51:44
  nations be referred to as mountains inside of
• 1:51:46
  scripture. And so what we're seeing here is this
• 1:51:49
  judgment placed on nations. And it's being tossed
• 1:51:53
  into the sea. We see that similar judgment language
• 1:51:56
  in the Psalms or in Zechariah. And here's another
• 1:52:01
  interesting one. This is Jeremiah 51, 24 through
• 1:52:05
  25. And it says, I will repay Babylon and all
• 1:52:10
  the inhabitants of Chaldea before your very eyes
• 1:52:13
  for all the evil that they have done in Zion
• 1:52:16
  declares the Lord behold I am against you oh
• 1:52:19
  destroying mountain declares the Lord which destroys
• 1:52:23
  the whole earth I will stretch out my hand against
• 1:52:25
  you and roll you down from the crags and make
• 1:52:29
  you a burnt mountain it's like oh so not only
• 1:52:32
  is he calling Babylon a mountain he's saying
• 1:52:36
  you're a burnt mountain yeah and there's that
• 1:52:39
  judgment that's being placed in there And then
• 1:52:42
  on top of that, let's jump to Habakkuk 3 .6.
• 1:52:45
  Let's do it. Deep cut. Habakkuk. It says, he
• 1:52:50
  stood and measured the earth. He looked and shook
• 1:52:52
  the nations. Then the eternal mountains were
• 1:52:55
  scattered. The everlasting hill sank low. His
• 1:52:59
  were the everlasting ways. Says he shook the
• 1:53:02
  nations, then the eternal mountains. Yeah. So
• 1:53:06
  that's really interesting. Yeah, and I think
• 1:53:08
  when we look at the language here the way I see
• 1:53:10
  it and the way I'm reading it is We see all these
• 1:53:14
  descriptors between nations and mountains. Well
• 1:53:17
  jumping back to Deuteronomy 32 8 What did he
• 1:53:20
  do? He separated divided the nations by the number
• 1:53:22
  of the sons of God He placed the sons of God
• 1:53:25
  over the nations and the nations are mountains
• 1:53:28
  prophetically in this language So he's talking
• 1:53:31
  about the the the stones of fire Yes, like well,
• 1:53:37
  hold on a second. Isn't he talking about the
• 1:53:40
  sons of God over the nations? So this guardian
• 1:53:43
  cherub that he's talking about He walked amongst
• 1:53:46
  the stones of fire. He walked amongst the rulers
• 1:53:50
  of the nations the sons of God Yes, so it's placing
• 1:53:53
  him in that category of like this is who you
• 1:53:55
  were. Yes, I So I as we've been like talking
• 1:54:05
  about this, I keep thinking about this one passage
• 1:54:08
  and it's in, and I'm just gonna hit it for a
• 1:54:12
  second. Love it. But it's Mark 11 and it says,
• 1:54:19
  starting in verse 20, as they passed by in the
• 1:54:22
  morning, they saw the fig tree withered away
• 1:54:25
  to its roots. And Peter remembered and said to
• 1:54:29
  him, Rabbi, look, the fig tree that you cursed
• 1:54:31
  is withered. And Jesus answered them, have faith
• 1:54:35
  in God truly I say to you whoever says to this
• 1:54:38
  mountain be taken up and thrown into the sea
• 1:54:42
  and does not doubt in his heart but believes
• 1:54:45
  that what he says will come to pass, it will
• 1:54:48
  be done for him. Therefore, I tell you, whatever
• 1:54:51
  you ask in prayer, believe that you have received
• 1:54:53
  it and it will be yours. And whenever you stand
• 1:54:56
  praying, forgive if you have anything against
• 1:54:59
  anyone so that your father also who is in heaven
• 1:55:01
  may forgive you your trespasses." I keep thinking
• 1:55:06
  about the fact that the Old Testament refers
• 1:55:11
  a lot to mountains. as representation of those
• 1:55:17
  spiritual kings that are in place behind the
• 1:55:25
  rulers that we can see. And I always thought
• 1:55:29
  like - And we see that judgment in Revelation.
• 1:55:31
  Yes. And so I always thought about that passage
• 1:55:35
  in Mark, like, you know, faith the size of a
• 1:55:38
  mustard seed, tell the mountain to be removed
• 1:55:40
  and it will be cast into the sea. What is the
• 1:55:44
  sea? It's the abyss. The sea is the... Because
• 1:55:50
  first, what is the mountain? That's the nations.
• 1:55:53
  Those are the ones behind the nations. Those
• 1:55:55
  are the sons of God. Those are the princes and
• 1:55:59
  principalities of the air. And when you cast
• 1:56:03
  them into the sea, you're telling these lowercase
• 1:56:07
  g gods where to go. So when you say to this mountain,
• 1:56:12
  be removed and be cast into the sea, you're saying,
• 1:56:16
  spiritual entity coming against me, you have
• 1:56:21
  to flee in the name of Jesus. Then they will
• 1:56:25
  then be taken up. That great mountain will be
• 1:56:30
  taken up and cast into the abyss, Sheol. Which
• 1:56:34
  is like, that's like a... a really recent revelation
• 1:56:39
  of that. Isn't that so cool though? It's crazy.
• 1:56:41
  It's right there. It finally makes sense. Now
• 1:56:43
  I just need a backwards engineer and go up and
• 1:56:46
  figure out what the fig tree is. I'm still working
• 1:56:48
  on that. That's it. What is the fig tree? I'm
• 1:56:49
  still working on that. So cast the mountain into
• 1:56:52
  the sea. Yeah. Is send the prince of the air,
• 1:56:57
  the princes of the air into the abyss. Yeah.
• 1:56:59
  Yeah, which is like it's right there. It's like
• 1:57:02
  that's what he's saying. Yeah, it's all through
• 1:57:04
  the Old Testament. It's in Revelation It's right
• 1:57:06
  there. So cool. It's so obvious Yeah, and what's
• 1:57:10
  what's funny cuz like what what it's doing then
• 1:57:13
  painting this picture this language Yeah, when
• 1:57:15
  we take that and we apply it to you what Ezekiel
• 1:57:18
  is saying. Mm -hmm He's saying there. Let me
• 1:57:21
  paint this whole image for you. Yeah of not only
• 1:57:24
  what's happening, what the judgment is for these
• 1:57:28
  fallen, these cherub that have sinned, but let
• 1:57:31
  me also tell you where he came from and what
• 1:57:35
  his place was and where he was. And he says,
• 1:57:39
  God tells us where he put them. I put you in
• 1:57:41
  the garden. You had a job to do in there. And
• 1:57:45
  then you sinned, and so I cast you down and humiliated
• 1:57:48
  you in front of everybody. But it's also interesting
• 1:57:51
  because we see a timeline here. We do. Cause
• 1:57:53
  it's like, he's not saying he sinned in the garden.
• 1:57:56
  Right. He's saying you sinned now. And it's like,
• 1:57:59
  oh, well that's really interesting, isn't it?
• 1:58:02
  That's a different episode. It is. I had to say
• 1:58:09
  it. I know. I had to say it. I know. No, so that's,
• 1:58:15
  yeah. So going back to the original question,
• 1:58:19
  did Eve speak snake? So the whole thing with
• 1:58:26
  that is I think what the rest of the Bible paints
• 1:58:30
  as an image in this and the question of why is
• 1:58:34
  Eve not afraid or why is it not weird that she's
• 1:58:37
  talking to a snake? Well, first of all, it's
• 1:58:40
  a serpent. It's the shining one. It's the ancient
• 1:58:46
  serpent. It's a cherub. Yeah. It's the devil
• 1:58:53
  It's not a snake Yeah, and and we have good reason
• 1:59:02
  to believe through passages like is from Isaiah
• 1:59:05
  14 and Ezekiel 28 and and in other places just
• 1:59:09
  looking at the fact that cherub would Would have
• 1:59:13
  been present in the garden They were definitely
• 1:59:18
  present on the mountain of God. Yeah And that
• 1:59:21
  definitely is another episode the mountain of
• 1:59:23
  God. That's a big episode but But you look at
• 1:59:28
  this and really the thing we wanted I think we
• 1:59:30
  wanted to explore the most is our Adam and Eve
• 1:59:34
  by themselves in this garden No, yeah, it's simple
• 1:59:40
  no, yeah, and I feel like if we take just what
• 1:59:43
  we see in Genesis Well, you know, there's at
• 1:59:44
  least two cherub. Yes And that's it No, it's
• 1:59:49
  like, that's not it. Yeah, and it's kind of this
• 1:59:55
  movement too because you see that like the cherub,
• 2:00:00
  they were guardians, but it's almost like they
• 2:00:06
  had this movement from heaven to earth. They
• 2:00:09
  could move between the two things and like being
• 2:00:12
  like God. or being like the gods like being like
• 2:00:17
  the lower we didn't quite get there but being
• 2:00:19
  like the lowercase g gods being like those spiritual
• 2:00:22
  beings who could move back and forth between
• 2:00:24
  heaven and earth that they would have been potentially
• 2:00:28
  aware of yeah and we see here that like obviously
• 2:00:32
  she had seen it she had seen a cherub um and
• 2:00:37
  and knew what it was and wasn't frightened by
• 2:00:40
  it yeah otherwise That is important to the story.
• 2:00:44
  That's the thing I would want to say. And here's
• 2:00:47
  why I know that. Everywhere that an angel appears,
• 2:00:52
  the Bible tells us that the angel says, do not
• 2:00:55
  be afraid. So the Bible itself is telling us
• 2:01:00
  it's important to know that a human seeing a
• 2:01:05
  spiritual being is terrifying. It's telling us
• 2:01:10
  that. So why is this human not terrified? Like
• 2:01:15
  why is that not happening when it happens everywhere
• 2:01:18
  else in scripture? Well the only explanation
• 2:01:21
  and the simplest explanation is she knew cherub.
• 2:01:29
  Or they knew cherub. And the garden was full
• 2:01:33
  of beasts of the field. Nice tie in. And it's
• 2:01:39
  one of those things where you look at that and
• 2:01:40
  you go, all right, well, the serpent was one
• 2:01:43
  of the beasts of the field and there's potentially
• 2:01:47
  multiple beasts of the field, different types
• 2:01:50
  of beasts of the field. But in this particular
• 2:01:55
  instance, you look at that and you go, yeah,
• 2:01:59
  so one of the... Because we need to wrap this
• 2:02:03
  up but one of the most interesting things to
• 2:02:05
  me is and that's kind of where I feel like this
• 2:02:09
  question comes from for me is The representation
• 2:02:14
  of cherub in the tabernacle and With the children
• 2:02:21
  of Israel and the fact that like God tells Moses
• 2:02:26
  Put a cherub on the mercy seat put two cherub
• 2:02:29
  on either side of the mercy seat and then Solomon
• 2:02:32
  has cherub in in the temple There's there's cherub
• 2:02:35
  their guardian cherub that are represented all
• 2:02:38
  the way through like they are they are a fixture
• 2:02:41
  of of Israel but the thing is is like we don't
• 2:02:45
  actually get a description of a cherub right
• 2:02:48
  until Ezekiel yeah, and if that's true so like
• 2:02:53
  We were told about cherubs way early on. But
• 2:03:01
  we don't actually get a description of a cherub
• 2:03:03
  until Ezekiel. Yeah, much later. Yeah. That doesn't
• 2:03:07
  make sense to me. How did they know what it looked
• 2:03:11
  like? Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. How do
• 2:03:13
  they know what a cherub looks like? I mean, the
• 2:03:17
  easy example is, well, when Moses said, put a
• 2:03:20
  cherub on it, that he also showed Moses a cherub.
• 2:03:24
  Right. The problem is everybody else knew it
• 2:03:28
  was a cherub. It's not like Moses had to go around
• 2:03:31
  and be like, it's a cherub, guys, it's a cherub,
• 2:03:33
  this is a cherub, that's a cherub, this is a
• 2:03:35
  cherub. And another good episode is cloud by
• 2:03:41
  day, pillar of fire by night. That's a good question.
• 2:03:44
  Pillar of fire by night, maybe they did know
• 2:03:46
  what cherub were, or seraphim, or yeah, that's
• 2:03:50
  a whole can of worms. We're getting ahead of
• 2:03:52
  ourselves here. to answer the question. You want
• 2:03:59
  to ask it one more time? I keep forgetting what
• 2:04:01
  it is. Did Eve speak snake? Say it with me. Did
• 2:04:12
  Eve speak snake? Yes, she did. Three, two, one.
• 2:04:19
  See you next time.