Latest / The Diary of a CFO / 80/20 Rule for FP&A Experts to Transform Decision-Making Through Analytics with Andrew Hull

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80/20 Rule for FP&A Experts to Transform Decision-Making Through Analytics with Andrew Hull · The Diary of a CFO

0:00
Welcome back to the Diary of a CFO. I'm your
0:02
host for See Ya Come On, and today I'm bringing
0:04
you an episode I found very helpful from another
0:06
podcast called FDNA Unlocked, or Finance Meets
0:10
Strategy. It is hosted by my good friend Paul
0:13
Barnhurst, aka the FDNA guy, and if you don't
0:16
already follow him or listen to his podcast,
0:18
I highly encourage you to do so. In this particular
0:21
episode, Paul is interviewing Finance Executive
0:23
Andrew Hall and I really like how they broke
0:27
down what success truly looks like in FP &A and
0:30
how you can bring those best practices to your
0:33
organization. Enjoy. I would love to change FP
0:37
&A to be FA &P. One of the big problems is people
0:40
get too caught up on the planning and budgeting.
0:42
Do you believe the FP &A profession gets the
0:44
credit it deserves from the business? You know,
0:46
I've been in a couple other places where FP &A
0:48
is more of an afterthought and a little more
0:50
reporting and back shop. And did they get credit?
0:53
No. Now we can better manage the budget process.
0:56
I love really condensing the time frame. The
0:59
problem when you plan budgets over six months
1:01
is the base change. So many things change and
1:03
you got to reset it. What are some of those metrics
1:06
that you're always looking at to see how the
1:08
business is performing? Like any business, you're
1:10
always looking at profit, sales, trends, and
1:12
growth. One of the main things we're looking
1:13
at is variable margin. And for an FPA professional,
1:17
being able to truly split your P &L that comes
1:19
in the lines into drivers and really get at a
1:22
P &L that has fixed cost and variable cost. Set
1:25
a strategy for your team. Think about a vision.
1:27
If you learn to do that early in your career,
1:29
it's going to benefit you as you move up the
1:31
chain. Yeah, absolutely. I challenge people all
1:33
the time. One way to practice that is... Are
1:39
you tired of being seen as just a spreadsheet
1:41
person while others get a seat at the table?
1:44
Well, welcome to FP &A Unlocked, where finance
1:47
meets strategy. I'm your host, Paul Barnhurst,
1:51
the FP &A guy. Each week, we bring you conversations
1:54
and practical advice from thought leaders, industry
1:57
experts and practitioners who are reshaping the
2:00
role of FP &A in today's business world. Together,
2:04
we'll uncover the strategies and experiences
2:07
that separate good FP &A professionals from great
2:10
ones, helping you elevate your career and drive
2:13
strategic impact. This week, I'm thrilled to
2:16
be joined by Andrew Hull. Andrew, welcome to
2:18
the show. Thanks a lot. Looking forward to our
2:21
conversation. Yeah, excited to have you. Andrew
2:25
is a financial executive with progressive experience
2:28
in consumer packaged goods. He is passionate
2:31
about inspiring teams and partnering with business
2:34
leaders to deliver results. He has a breadth
2:37
of finance experience supporting sales, marketing,
2:40
operations, and corporate, and currently is the
2:44
VP of Unifi in Canada. He loves setting visions
2:48
and strategies and bringing them to life with
2:51
objective business perspectives, principled financial
2:55
analysis, and inspirational leadership. He also
2:59
loves winning. Who doesn't, right? and he brings
3:01
the competitive spirit to everything he does.
3:05
All right, so we like to start off every interview
3:09
with this question just to see the different
3:11
answers people give. In your mind, what does
3:14
great FP &A look like? What is great FP &A? That,
3:17
first of all, is super great to be here looking
3:19
forward to our conversation. I love the space
3:21
that you own too. I mean, I was thinking about
3:23
if I was starting out my career and if I want
3:25
to get into marketing sales, there's so many
3:27
podcasts and information out there, but to own
3:29
the FP &A space is amazing. So congratulations
3:32
looking forward to our conversation. Well, thank
3:33
you. I love doing it. So FP &A to me, there's
3:37
a couple of things. I mean, one thing I'd say
3:38
about create FP &A, I would love to change FP
3:42
&A. to be F, A, and P, because I think one of
3:45
the big problems is people get too caught up
3:46
on the planning and budgeting. You think about
3:49
the 80 -20 rule. I think back in my career, I've
3:51
probably done more 80 budgeting, planning, re
3:53
-forecasting less on the analytics. Love to see
3:56
that flip. You're thinking of starting your own
3:58
career. Where do you really add value? It's in
4:01
the analytics piece. In FP &A, specifically,
4:05
I've always thought there's kind of three elements
4:07
of FP &A. And what good looks like would, of
4:10
course, be starting with your technical skills.
4:12
I mean, how could you not start with being really
4:14
good at modeling system analytics? And I'm sure
4:17
we're going to talk a little bit about Excel.
4:20
It's the test of time. I love the program. People
4:22
are trying to get rid of it. Twenty years ago,
4:24
it's still there. So how do you not have great
4:26
Excel skills? The second part is, of course,
4:29
storytelling. I mean, in FPNA, you're faced with.
4:33
enormous amounts of information. How do you ultimately
4:35
bring it back to business owners and explain
4:37
a story? What are the numbers mean? But what
4:39
I always say is the most important part, and
4:41
this is maybe where I differ on some, is action.
4:45
I always kind of say you could be the best functional
4:47
expert at a system. You could be an amazing storyteller.
4:51
But if you don't drive an action out of what
4:52
you're doing, what's the point? So you have to
4:55
be amazing at getting actions done. So convincing
4:58
your audience through your storytelling, through
5:00
your analytics to make a decision. Are we going
5:02
to invest in capital? Are we going to cut a product?
5:05
Are we going to take pricing and following up
5:06
to make sure it gets done? So you have to bring
5:09
great analytics. You have to be able to tell
5:11
your story, but then you have to make something
5:13
different, impact the business. So that's what
5:16
I always say, kind of the three levels of FPNIC.
5:19
I really like that. I love the three levels example.
5:22
I totally believe with you, right? You could
5:24
do great analysis, but if you can't impact the
5:26
business, that last mile influence what happens.
5:29
kind of dies on the vine. And how many of us
5:32
have done that? Where we're certain something
5:33
will work, but nobody listens. And that's where
5:36
that storytelling and influencing skills are
5:39
so important. That's often where finance people
5:42
fall off or is a great analytic, great Excel.
5:44
They can storytell a little, but they leave the
5:46
meeting and say, Oh, you know, why didn't they
5:48
implement it? Well, maybe your story wasn't perfect.
5:51
Maybe you didn't bring that action ability to
5:52
it. Um, so totally agree. And the other thing
5:55
I love that you said, is, you know, you wish
5:58
it was F, A, and P. Remember having a CFO on
6:02
the podcast, C .J. Gustafson, and he referred
6:05
to, he goes, all too often the P is fat and the
6:09
A is skinny. It's like, we need to reverse that,
6:12
which is exactly what you were talking about.
6:14
I really, that stuck with me because I agree
6:17
with you. How often do we spend six months on
6:19
a budget and the numbers changed? How much from
6:22
beginning to end and how much benefit did we
6:24
get out of it? Probably not much. I was trying
6:27
to add up for this to do a little mental math
6:29
and how many budgets I've done and, you know,
6:31
over a hundred and probably the classic 10 ,000
6:33
hours and how many of those have they really
6:36
added value. And if I'd implemented the 80 20
6:39
through my career and somehow forced the budget
6:41
down and the analytics up, how much more I could
6:43
have impacted company. So it's a, I think it's
6:46
the 80 20 of F P and A and F A and P doesn't
6:49
have the ring that F P and A does, but I still
6:52
think if people put that in the back of their
6:53
heads. Um, how do I impact analytics more than
6:56
budgeting? Well, I might have to see how my podcast
6:59
does if I change the name to f a and p tomorrow
7:02
I don't know if it has to say ring, but hopefully
7:05
people get the point I'm sure they would so you
7:08
spent most of your career. I think your whole
7:10
career in cpg What have you found so interesting
7:13
about that industry or what kind of attracts
7:15
you to cpg? Yeah, I fell into it. My career started
7:19
at a Canadian university, Wilfrid Laurier, and
7:21
I got an internship at Procter & Gamble food
7:24
company. And I worked at Thai and sunlight detergent.
7:26
And I just fell in love with it. It's such an
7:29
amazing industry being in food and consumer packaged
7:31
goods. And I think what I love about it the most
7:33
to put it, the one word is its simplicity. I
7:36
mean, when you're working on a box of Kraft mac
7:39
and cheese, You can impact the financials, the
7:42
marketing, the sales, HR, the strategy. I mean,
7:44
it's only a box of Kraft Dinner. You could get
7:47
involved in the whole thing, which is, I always
7:49
think very different than if you're in banking,
7:51
you're working on convexity of a bond curve,
7:53
and maybe you understand the math, but you really
7:55
understand what you're talking about. And the
7:57
other thing that's amazing about the food industry
7:59
is you see your work on shelf. So as a consumer,
8:02
maybe you work on an innovation for Kraft Dinner.
8:05
Maybe you work on new advertising campaign. Maybe
8:08
you the financials on a reinvestment in new manufacturing
8:10
facility. You go to the grocery store and you
8:13
see it there right away. So you see the fruit
8:15
of all your work and you get feedback right away.
8:17
You talk to your friends about it so everyone
8:19
can engage in it. So I love that I've been able
8:21
to use my finance degree at the heart of what
8:24
I do. But I also use my business theory every
8:27
day, sales and marketing, packaging, branding,
8:30
everything. So it's just been an amazing. I've
8:33
had an amazing career. I just love the food.
8:35
Consumer practice gets industry fun. Do you have
8:38
a favorite product you worked on over the years?
8:41
Like is there a brand that you're just really
8:43
worth the great experience with it's like picking
8:45
children. I know I Worked at thousands. I really
8:49
love delisio pizza. It was a US brand of rebranded
8:53
relaunched in Canada We set off the brand strategy
8:55
the pricing strategy it grew from Small to 200
9:00
million a short time. We are so many this disagreements
9:04
and back and forth on what sort of advertising
9:06
we should be doing, price points and competitive
9:08
landscape. We sold the business. I actually worked
9:11
at Kraft most of my career. We sold to Nestle
9:14
and my career went to Nestle. So I got to see
9:16
the list, see another company and then Nestle
9:19
ultimately discontinued it in Canada. So I saw
9:21
the full life cycle of a $200 million brand from
9:25
inception and I worked on. acquisition, I worked
9:28
on divestiture, I worked on egg, I worked on
9:31
everything. So, and an incredibly tasty pizza,
9:34
rising crust pizza at the same time. So I never
9:37
thought about that before, but maybe that would
9:39
be my top one. Sounds like you got to see that
9:41
entire life cycle. Was there a part in that,
9:44
like during the life cycle that maybe you enjoyed
9:46
the most or lessons learned from getting to see,
9:49
it's not very often you get to see the entire
9:51
life cycle, right? That's pretty rare. So what
9:53
was maybe a key takeaway or learning from seeing
9:56
that whole thing? I mean, the divestiture is
9:59
always fun getting into the math and everything
10:02
that comes around the divestiture. But I think
10:03
probably where we added the most value for an
10:05
FP &A standpoint was when the brand was starting
10:08
to mature. So it kind of got to 170, $180 million
10:12
and really started slowing down. And we had to
10:15
spend a lot more time doing trade analytics.
10:18
It wasn't just show up and have 20 million more
10:20
sales. So we started a whole team. Looking at
10:22
all the ads and the price points and looking
10:25
at the lifts we got out of them Didn't make sense
10:27
to run a front -page ad at Walmart, you know,
10:30
we get a five million dollar lift But we had
10:31
to pay a lot of money to get it that that made
10:33
sense So where we added the most value from a
10:36
finance perspective was definitely that period
10:38
where we took the profitability up Maybe not
10:41
so much the sales. It was kind of later in its
10:43
life life stage of the product So I love that
10:46
stage doing the analytics on the brand and really
10:49
impacting the brand, the profitability, trying
10:51
to get the right trade promotion management mix.
10:54
Sure. That makes that makes a lot of sense. So
10:57
tell us about your current role. I know you're
10:59
a VP there in Canada and working for a consumer
11:02
packaged goods. Tell us about the company and
11:04
what you're doing today. Yeah. So it unifies
11:07
the largest food distributor in North America.
11:10
So we do about 30 billion dollars in sales. So
11:13
great organization. Like I said, I've started
11:15
my whole career has been in CBG. I started 18
11:18
years at Kraft. I did four at Nestle and now
11:20
I've been four years at UNFI. So I'm the lead
11:24
for finance in Canada. It's great company, really
11:27
good people, different being in a distributor
11:30
and kind of a CPG company. I mean, obviously
11:32
our margins are a little bit lower, public information
11:35
on margins and distribution industry. So I own
11:39
everything finance, treasury, cashflow, taxes,
11:43
banking, P &L, budgeting. Fantastic job what
11:47
I always want to do run a finance organization
11:50
So I get the leadership aspect a ton of analytics
11:53
budgeting a lot of time with a leadership team
11:55
a great leadership team in Canada and Get a great
11:58
organization in the US some companies I work
12:00
for we have another best relationship back and
12:02
forth, but we've got great leaders in the US
12:05
great strategy Really enjoyed the company. It's
12:08
been it's been fantastic and I really get to
12:11
use my whole finance degree on the whole gamut
12:14
of Beyond fpna accounting treasury everything
12:18
as well. So the first role where you've owned
12:21
everything where you've had all the different
12:23
functions Yeah, so at craft I moved through kind
12:26
of strategy up any corporate fpna marketing and
12:29
brand fpna operations so I've owned plants and
12:32
distribution centers and Nestle I ran sales finance
12:35
and then Category finance, but this is the first
12:38
one I've been able to see it all which is was
12:40
kind of always my goal to be able to get that
12:43
spot so Amazing experience exactly kind of what
12:46
I wanted. Well, congratulations. What, uh, what
12:49
was the hardest adjustment or maybe thing you
12:53
were surprised the most by is you went from maybe
12:56
having just an area to kind of having all of
12:59
finance. I had my big surprises because I think
13:02
the way my career was set up. Kraft and Nestle
13:05
were really good at rotating you through. So
13:07
I think you're starting, I think it was starting
13:09
your own career. I've had to get into a big company
13:11
that will move you laterally between roles. So
13:14
I did so many different functions that when I
13:16
got into this role, I've already done treasury,
13:19
I've already done accounting, I've already done
13:21
corporate, I've done a little bit of everything.
13:22
So to see it all together, I could leverage all
13:25
those little parts. You get some people off and
13:27
they're trying to rush their way up there. The
13:29
learning career curve, you know, it's not bad
13:32
taking some lateral roles along the way and make
13:34
sure you have a good understanding. And I really
13:36
think it's helped me in this job that I haven't
13:39
had a ton of surprises. And of course, I've got
13:41
a great team around me. I don't understand everything
13:44
going on, but I've got great leaders underneath
13:46
to help with that. So I'm not an expert yet.
13:48
It'd be a big change moving to distribution,
13:51
a lot different sort of financial model and where
13:53
we add value than what Nessia crafted, but no
13:57
major surprises. And I think that's partly due
14:00
to the kind of career trajectory moving around
14:03
and up at the same time. Yeah, that's great.
14:06
Cause I agree with you. Sometimes we are in such
14:09
a hurry to move up that we just take that next
14:12
role when we might be better off taking a lateral
14:14
in the long run and gaining some additional experience.
14:17
the better prepares us down the road. But when
14:19
we're young, we often don't want to hear that.
14:22
Oh, wait, more money. More money. How do I go
14:24
to the top? Look at this. I've seen so many examples
14:27
of people going too fast and making some money
14:30
and doing okay, but then running into problems.
14:32
They haven't had the leadership experience maybe.
14:34
I had some great examples of a big team. So I
14:37
had team experience, a leadership experience,
14:39
which set me up for this. So one of the big advice
14:42
I give to people starting out is, is accept lateral
14:44
roles if it keeps growing, you're learning. So
14:47
lateral maybe into another brand, okay, but can
14:51
you get a lateral into another function? Can
14:53
you get into strategy or in a corporate or in
14:55
operations or see a plant get into the service
14:58
division, get into treasury? One thing that's
15:01
amazing I find with, you know, I used to think
15:03
FP &A was kind of the core of finance, but you
15:06
really realize that you've got to do accounting
15:08
roles. You've got to do treasury roles. You've
15:10
got to touch banking and insurance to be able
15:12
to do a CFO job. So FP &A is certainly the core
15:16
of it, but It's really important to get some
15:18
lateral moves to your career to be able to do
15:20
that as well. Yeah. As I've heard someone put
15:22
it, we had a guy on, they call it the finance
15:24
passport. Oh, that's a lot of it. If you want
15:27
to move up to CFO, there's certain things you
15:29
need to stamp, whether it's taking a role or
15:31
working on a special project, right? You don't
15:34
have to be an expert in all of them, but you
15:35
definitely have to be able to check the boxes
15:38
enough that somebody's comfortable to say, yeah,
15:40
you can run my finance function. I'm going to
15:42
steal that. Is that a wrong idea? I don't know
15:45
if it's someone else. No, the guy came from Jeff.
15:48
I'm trying to remember his last name. It was
15:50
almost two years ago. I interviewed him, but
15:52
it was something with Gartner. They used it at
15:54
the at the company and they talked about how
15:56
there's finance athletes and finance specialists.
16:00
And depending on the role you wanted, you needed
16:01
to stamp certain things in your passport, especially
16:04
if you want to move up to CFO or higher roles
16:07
with a broader responsibility. So it was a really
16:11
really cool framework they'd implemented in their
16:13
company and I interviewed him about it. Jeff,
16:15
I'll find the name and email it to you. I can't
16:17
remember offhand, but yeah, craft was great at
16:20
giving you the opportunities to, I'm going to
16:22
steal that stamp your passport because you just
16:23
rotate through so many elements. And I find when
16:26
I got to this Ross, I I've touched all this,
16:28
maybe not an expert. Maybe I forget some of it.
16:31
Certainly my Excel skills are not what they were
16:33
10 years ago when I was doing modeling, but I've
16:36
got a good passport to go with it. Sure, I think
16:39
what's pretty common most most CFOs are not spending
16:42
the same amount of time modeling as they were
16:44
as an analyst or a manager Yeah, funny story.
16:47
My team makes fun of me a lot when we go on screen
16:50
and do an analysis and I pull up Excel You can
16:52
see their faces like get this guy off Excel.
16:55
That's our job. He's not very good anymore So
16:57
back in the day I could run macros and V look
17:00
up with the best of them and now this new generation
17:03
Just blows me away And it's good. I don't need
17:05
that skill set anymore. I can do basic stuff.
17:07
I can analyze what comes out of Excel with the
17:10
best of them, but I get made fun of quite a bit.
17:13
I was there making fun of me even back at Kraft
17:15
and Nestle at my weakening Excel skills over
17:18
time. Hey, you know, that's usually what happens.
17:21
And as long as you can do the analysis and do
17:23
the job, that's what's important. As I say, no,
17:27
no, no business person ever asked, did you use
17:29
the latest formula in Excel for that? They really
17:32
don't care. The output, the assumptions, how's
17:35
it going to help me? So I'd love to ask, you
17:37
joined Unifi during the pandemic. What was that
17:40
experience like maybe for you coming into a new
17:43
company and just for the company as a whole?
17:45
I imagine that was an incredibly challenging
17:48
time with all the disruptions we had to supply
17:52
chain and everything going on. Well, it was an
17:54
amazing experience personally because I had to
17:56
learn sort of the leadership role of finance.
17:59
Um, I made sure that I talked to a lot of people
18:01
before I came in. It was the right culture, right
18:03
place. Uh, I had some friends here, some ex -craft
18:06
colleagues that made the transition really smooth.
18:08
So that was really good. The, the big thing for
18:11
UNFI and for a lot of food companies is our business
18:14
was on fire. I mean, if you look back and look
18:16
at public information on sales, obviously we
18:18
are stealing from restaurant chains. Um, what
18:21
I say a lot of it, this was in my career where
18:23
I've seen FP &A add the most value because the
18:27
general questions were. Why is our business doing
18:30
so well? And what is the underlying driver of
18:33
what that was? Is it actual case growth because
18:36
our business is doing well, our brands doing
18:38
well, or is this simply because we've got a trade
18:40
off for people trading down from restaurant chains?
18:43
That was the start of the pandemic. Then the
18:44
next question became when inflation hit and what
18:48
is right? What's driving the inflation? How do
18:51
we control it? What can we pass along through
18:53
the supply chain and then? How does this all
18:57
come together? So a ton of analysis on what's
18:59
the underlying inflation? What will continue?
19:02
What won't? We learned a lot going through that.
19:04
So great experience. Definitely a time for FPA
19:08
to shine. I saw my team and other teams in our
19:11
company do a ton of analytics and really help
19:13
kind of guide the company on where we're going.
19:16
Yeah. And I'm curious in general, going through
19:18
that experience, any advice on managing inflation?
19:22
Because I think that's something every company
19:25
Struggled with right is this transitory is the
19:27
permanent how much do i raise prices how much
19:29
will that hurt volume so many things go into
19:32
that how did you kind of think about that maybe
19:35
some lessons learned from going through that
19:38
definitely a lot of raw analytics we try to get
19:42
as much information we could whether it was sort
19:44
of nielsen information from the industry. um,
19:47
as much as we could on our own business. So a
19:49
lot of sort of good fundamental that was not
19:52
through a high level, like do quick analysis
19:54
that was down at skew levels on what's driving
19:57
pricing. So really good tools and modeling. I
20:00
mean, I think in business and finance, you really
20:02
need to know when you need to do an A plus job
20:05
and get something really good. And when you can
20:07
kind of float, I'd say to my team a lot, I'm
20:09
okay. You're doing a B job on this. You don't
20:11
need it to be perfect. That one needed to be
20:13
perfect because it was at such big consequences.
20:16
Um, so probably that was one is making sure that
20:19
because of the impact was so big, making sure
20:22
we had good, good, uh, analytics to go with it.
20:26
Maybe the better ones, a lot of conversation
20:28
with leadership and then a lot of, uh, potentially
20:32
risk taking on what do we think the market's
20:34
going to do? We did a lot of sort of game theories.
20:38
What will competitors do? What will other people
20:39
do? How everyone reacts. So a lot of the thing
20:41
I love about FP &A and math is the transition.
20:45
out of the analytic onto the whiteboard. So I
20:48
love getting together with cross -functional
20:50
leaders or president and everyone else and saying,
20:52
OK, this is what the math shows. Let's start
20:55
drawing some pictures out here of what could
20:56
happen. What if this scenario happens? What is
20:58
this scenario happens? What should we do? How
21:00
would we react? So great financial analysis and
21:03
something that needed an A plus, not a B job.
21:06
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21:09
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21:11
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teams go to think forward. Yeah. I loved how
22:13
you said the transition. You talked earlier about
22:16
storytelling, and I've shared this experience
22:18
many times on different podcasts. I still remember
22:20
one of the worst experiences I had presenting
22:22
something is it went terrible. Later, I asked
22:24
my boss what happened, and he's like, your analysis
22:27
was brilliant. Your presentation lacked and gets
22:30
exactly to your point of sometimes we struggle
22:32
to make that transition. So any advice thoughts?
22:35
You got all the analysis done. Any thoughts on
22:38
transitioning it to the whiteboard, making sure
22:40
the business It's the key takeaways. Is there
22:43
something you've done in your career when you're
22:46
putting together that presentation or, you know,
22:48
putting it on the whiteboard that's really helped
22:50
you connect with your business partners? Well,
22:53
plug for a friend. Ron Montero teaches some good
22:56
whole courses in this area. He's really good
22:58
at this. I wasn't taking away a lot of what he
23:00
said, but I just really liked the simplicity
23:04
of pictures and how do you get Generally, you've
23:08
got analysis with a million data points that
23:10
you've got to bring it down to a story. I love
23:12
getting it on the one page and I love getting
23:15
it into storytelling or pictures or visuals.
23:18
But at minimum, I got a lot of appendices. If
23:21
you want to go into details, it's all here, but
23:23
I'm going to give you one page with a story and
23:26
an actionable insight and a recommendation on
23:28
where to move. So how do you take all the hits
23:31
on a one page everyone goes to powerpoint get
23:33
on one page on powerpoint and this is my record
23:35
can i love to get pictures and if i can. On inflation
23:39
definitely inflation curves here's where we were
23:41
here's where it's going here's what we see you
23:44
know visuals really help people to bring it to
23:46
life so one page. Visuals simple in english.
23:52
um, you know Analogy sometime that a kindergarten
23:54
student would learn would understand or how do
23:57
you think to yourself? I've spent a hundred hours
23:59
looking at this That other person hasn't so how
24:01
do I explain to them in english? Yeah, I love
24:05
that. So i'm hearing the advice is and one of
24:07
the big things is really boil it down And get
24:10
it to that one page focus on english not finance
24:14
terms simple put pictures in there, but make
24:19
sure you also have a recommendation and a call
24:23
to action that you don't just give them the data
24:26
and leave it at that, that you help further the
24:29
discussion so that actions can be taken at the
24:32
end of the meeting or the whiteboard session
24:34
or whatever it might be. That's perfect. And
24:37
I think we're tired of the start that you need
24:39
the call to action. There's no point doing analysis
24:42
and tell a story if it doesn't come with a recco
24:45
that also gets implemented. It gets followed
24:47
up. It's actionable. It's simple. It makes sense.
24:50
and it ties back ideally to your company strategy
24:53
too. You're not coming up with a record that
24:55
doesn't tie back to what your leaders have told
24:57
you as a strategy for the company. Yeah. I love
25:00
that you mentioned a time back to the, to the
25:02
strategy. Cause often you see that's where you
25:05
kind of get off the rail. Sometimes some comes
25:07
up with an idea. It has nothing to do with strategy
25:09
and you get distracted and try implementing it.
25:11
You're looking back going, why did we do that?
25:13
That doesn't fit for us at all. I've definitely
25:16
seen that more than once. I want to go back to
25:18
unify for a minute. I know it's a. Obviously,
25:21
low margin, high volume business, right? You're
25:24
sending a ton of stuff out. Are there some key
25:27
metrics you really like to watch closely in this
25:30
business or what are some of those metrics that
25:32
you're always looking at to see how the business
25:34
is performing? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, like
25:37
any business, you're always looking at profit,
25:39
sales, trends, and growth. That would be anywhere,
25:41
but I would say fundamentally in this process,
25:45
just about any business, certainly in manufacturing,
25:47
one of the main things we're looking at is variable
25:49
margin. And for an FPA professional, being able
25:51
to truly split your P &L that comes into lines
25:55
into drivers and really get it a P &L that has
25:58
fixed cost and variable cost. So taking that
26:01
P &L and saying, okay, on every case we sell,
26:04
How much money do we make on that case on a variable
26:07
basis? And then we will make a different action
26:09
on that versus how we tackle our fixed costs.
26:12
So it's back to management accounting 101, splitting
26:15
your variable fixed costs. We spend a lot of
26:17
time looking at variable margin and we do that
26:20
total company. What's our variable margin? How's
26:22
that trending? And then what is it by customer?
26:25
And what is it by business unit or brand? And
26:28
then that comes obviously with trending and the
26:29
ups and downs and a lot of analytics that comes
26:31
with that. In distribution specifically, you're
26:34
doing a lot. I mean, the value added we bring
26:36
is ultimately the distribution element of it.
26:39
So the transportation. So we have a lot of metrics
26:42
that look at truck utilization. I mean, in a
26:44
day we want our truck to be full. A half -filled
26:47
truck is no good. So we look at truck utilization.
26:50
Labor obviously is a big one. So labor per case
26:52
sold would be a big one. And then our industry
26:55
too. I mean, we've got to keep our fixed costs
26:57
as low as possible. So SG &A is a percentage
27:00
of sales. One thing I'll bring up on that just
27:03
from an FP &A perspective where you can add value
27:05
is it's easy to do your fixed cost as a percent
27:08
and compare versus history. What I always like
27:10
to bring up as a good FP &A professional is you
27:13
should be looking for benchmarks. So the fact
27:16
that our SG &A percent is up or down is nice,
27:19
but what does good look like? What are our competitors
27:22
like? There's usually public information out
27:23
there on that. What's industry benchmarks? A
27:27
lot of tools out there to give you industry benchmarks.
27:29
So when you bring forward, You know, finance
27:31
is a percentage of total revenue and you say
27:34
it's X percent. Is that good? Is that bad? Is
27:37
that sideways? How does the industry compare?
27:39
What are our peers compared to that? What do
27:40
you hear in the industry? So it's great to provide
27:42
that point of comparison and managing as well
27:44
to help assess and bring a record for it on what
27:47
we should be doing. I agree with you. I think
27:48
it's a great point of benchmark and it's so much
27:52
easier to get analysis of competitors. I mean,
27:56
Generative AI is great at summarizing a 10Q or
27:59
10K. You know, use it to ask some questions and
28:03
get yourself started. It may not get you 100
28:04
% of the way there, but what if it gets you 80
28:06
% and saves you a day? Have you started using
28:10
ChatGBT and these other AI platforms? Like the
28:14
last year, I can't tell you how often I use them.
28:17
They're so powerful. I mean, a little bit of
28:19
personal stuff. I use it at work stuff all the
28:21
time. Incredibly powerful for saving time. Basic
28:25
stuff like take this email and make it more professional.
28:28
Simple stuff like that. Competitive analysis.
28:31
And I don't know about you, but I'm finding 98
28:33
% accuracy. I asked the questions and I read
28:36
through it. Say, okay, I just saved myself 10
28:39
hours and it probably has one little mistake
28:40
in it I could fix. So what about you and your
28:43
site? Are you using it a lot? Yeah, I definitely
28:45
use it quite a bit. I mean, I have a subscription
28:47
to Copilot, to ChatGPT and to Claude. So yeah,
28:51
I'm definitely using all three. I use Claude
28:54
a lot for summarizing my podcasts, because I
28:57
used to go back and rewatch him to write my post
29:00
and to come up with things, and now I just get
29:02
the summary. I have him give me key quotes, give
29:05
me the key takeaways, write the article, and
29:07
then I just go through and edit it. I rarely
29:10
have to go back to the transcript. Occasionally
29:12
I will, because I know they said something about
29:13
this or I don't like that. What exactly did they
29:16
say? But it saves me. I mean, it reduces it.
29:19
Probably from an hour, hour and a half I would
29:21
spend into 15, 20 minutes. It's a great time
29:24
saver. So that's one area I use it a lot. I've
29:26
used it in analysis. Today, I was using AI to
29:30
try to see how it did on creating clips from
29:32
a podcast. There's a lot of tools out there.
29:35
And I was just kind of testing it this morning.
29:37
So definitely use it quite a bit. Excel formulas,
29:40
it's great. If you can't remember the syntax
29:42
for something, just ask it. As long as it's not
29:45
a brand new formula, it will tell you exactly
29:47
how to write it. I will not be using it for Excel
29:50
formulas, but I use it for so many other things.
29:54
My team would laugh at me if I pulled out chat
29:57
GBT and started asking it Excel formulas, but.
29:59
Well, you know, you should do that just to see
30:00
what they do. You know, wait, is it April 1st?
30:03
Now you say it, maybe I'll wow them and get some
30:05
new funky formula and say, hey, your H lookup
30:08
looks like you forgot to put the index formula
30:10
inside it. So. Well, good luck. Let me know how
30:12
that treats you. I'll be curious to see what
30:14
you end up with. Probably not well. So you had
30:18
mentioned in your LinkedIn bio that you love
30:21
setting visions and strategy, but those are two
30:24
things you love doing. What is it you love about
30:27
that? Why those, those elements? The heart of
30:32
it, it's, it's fun is the simple word. It's super
30:35
enjoyable getting involved in strategy and vision.
30:37
I think part of it, after doing my MBA, I got
30:40
a lot more exposure, a lot more readings to that
30:42
side. And you, you just, it's incredible to see
30:45
something come together. Uh, and it's need an
30:48
FPA, usually doing analytics, bringing recommendation
30:50
on certain parts of a business. But if you could
30:52
start with setting the vision strategy or as
30:56
maybe you're more junior in your career, maybe
30:58
it's just a brand, maybe it's a division of business,
31:00
you get more senior, the whole company. If you
31:03
can set a strategy and a corporate direction,
31:06
have the leadership to have your team follow
31:08
you and then bring analytics to back it up and
31:10
make recommendations on the way. So powerful.
31:13
I was using a Delicio example before a little
31:15
bit of setting strategies along the way and bringing
31:18
analysis and bringing it together. So it's fun.
31:21
It brings together. I find a lot of my education
31:24
from school because you can bring in marketing,
31:27
HR, sales, finance, bring it all together, bring
31:30
a corporate strategy in. I always to challenge
31:33
my teams, even if they had a team of two or three
31:36
people, I'm like, build a strategy for your team.
31:39
Like, why would I do that? I'm like, cause you're
31:40
practicing. Cause one day you're going to have
31:42
to build a vision for a team of 40, a team of
31:45
a hundred. And then one day you're going to have
31:46
to bring a corporate strategy forward for a whole
31:49
organization. So practice it on smaller things
31:53
wherever you can. So ultimately it's super fun.
31:56
I love the fundamental SWOT and past and Porter
31:59
whiteboarding it, getting thoughts down and then
32:02
taking all these thoughts and saying, how do
32:03
I get this down into two or three sentences that
32:06
we're going to get out to organization in a simple
32:09
message. Well, I love that and I love the examples
32:11
you gave for young employees of hey set a strategy
32:14
for your team think about a vision Because if
32:16
you learn to do that early in your career It's
32:19
gonna benefit is you move up the chain Like you
32:21
said now the more senior you get the more you're
32:24
gonna have opportunities to work on vision and
32:26
strategy and the more important It's gonna become
32:28
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I challenge people all
32:31
the time practice on junior stuff I mean anything
32:34
I talked to people a lot about is One way to
32:37
practice that is let's say you're in a bank or
32:40
big multinational company or food industry and
32:42
you're more junior, so it's a little hard to
32:44
get involved. What I did early in my career was
32:46
I got on boards, board work outside of my company,
32:50
generally a non -for -profit when you're starting
32:52
out. What's amazing, and that could be anything
32:54
from your daycare, your church or sports organization
32:57
or volunteer, other sort of volunteer organization,
33:01
is you go from being a junior analyst on a massive
33:04
company to being a board chair, a treasurer on
33:07
maybe a hundred thousand dollar business. But
33:09
what's amazing about that is you can set the
33:11
strategy for that company and you can practice
33:13
those skills. You can give back. And even though
33:16
it might be your daycare and maybe the budgets,
33:18
you know, a million dollars, you're like, but
33:20
I'm setting the corporate strategy. I'm building
33:23
the exec, the CEO's compensation plan, all the
33:27
stuff that might take you 30 years later to get
33:29
to when you're running Coke one day. But It's
33:31
one advice I like to give people is is get volunteer
33:34
board work because you're doing this in your
33:36
day job when you're in your career and find a
33:38
way to practice this. So as you move up, you
33:40
can steal those experiences along the way. That
33:42
is really good advice. I like the idea of board
33:45
work. You know, when I was in grad school, I
33:47
competed in some strategy case competitions and
33:50
it was a lot of fun as a team. I love doing that.
33:53
Although I remember, you know, you didn't get
33:55
to bed till three, four in the morning and you're
33:57
back up at seven and you're just. Like, okay,
33:59
can I do a good presentation on two hours of
34:01
sleep? Love case competitions. I mean, that's
34:04
the other advice I give people is around education.
34:07
How do you keep your education going? I found
34:09
my MBA super valuable just from a strategic landscape,
34:14
more courses, more theories, deeper into porters
34:17
and pests and all that sort of stuff and tools
34:19
you could bring forward. So how do you bring
34:21
your job experience, your education, and hopefully
34:24
some outside work as well? Case competitions.
34:27
That was amazing experience, team building and
34:29
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That's Campfire. Yeah, no, they were a lot of
35:54
fun. I love, I love doing them and agree the
35:56
team aspect of the collaboration, the learning,
35:59
but you're in a real kind of, you know, pressure,
36:01
low risk pressure environment, like right. What's
36:04
the worst happens from a risk standpoint? The
36:05
judge doesn't like what you presented. You move
36:08
on. It's not like you actually have to guide
36:11
a company. And if you do the wrong thing, you
36:13
could, you know, a bunch of people could be laid
36:14
off. Yeah. Yeah. Love those experiences. So I'm
36:18
going to kind of go back here a little bit. You
36:22
know, you talked about how we need to reduce
36:24
the amount of time we send on planning, right?
36:26
The 80 should be on the analytics. So as you
36:28
look back over your career, any advice on how
36:31
we can better manage the budget process? What
36:34
should companies be doing in your, in your opinion
36:37
to shorten that timeframe? You get to be able
36:40
to spend more time on analytics. Great question.
36:43
I, I, um, I asked so many of my industry peers
36:46
that question and there's just no gold standard
36:49
model. I found all my years, Pepsi seemed to
36:52
do it the best. A couple examples of some stuff
36:54
they did, but some concrete advice. So things
36:56
I like saying to people is, and this is, I don't
36:59
want to say controversial, but not everyone agrees.
37:01
I love really condensing the timeframe. Cause
37:04
I find you use the example earlier, a six month
37:06
budget cycle. The problem when you plan budgets
37:09
over six months is the base change. So many things
37:11
change and you got to reset everything. How do
37:14
you say, listen, we're locking ourselves down
37:16
for two months. We're going to go hard, set a
37:18
budget, come out. So I like compressed timelines.
37:21
I really like doing a budget once, doing a really
37:24
good job once a year. Nestle kind of ran often
37:27
more of a rolling forecast. So you're updating
37:29
it frequently, frequently, frequently. I really
37:32
like that one time, try and do it right, as right
37:35
as possible in the 80 -20 rule and then move
37:37
on. I love and i've done this so many different
37:40
ways and there's no perfect way but you need
37:43
that mix of top down and bottom up so you need
37:46
your executive team doing a really good job of
37:49
a top down budget so listen guys we're trying
37:51
to grow sales at three percent profit 2x cash
37:55
flow at y here's the constraints a couple key
37:58
assumptions we want inflation played here this
38:00
plan here this plan there and then you need to
38:02
drive empowerment in your team to build the bottom
38:05
up budget because you want ultimately the empowerment
38:08
that comes through the team. Now, ideally the
38:10
two of them match and then you have all your
38:12
cost centers that tie to your top down, your
38:14
bottom up and they built the bottom up, you built
38:16
the top down and everything works and it never
38:18
works out perfectly. But that would be the perfect
38:21
budget. A bottom up where everyone's involved,
38:24
their power to set their own things, building
38:25
their own assumptions and it matches to a top
38:28
down. Shareholders are asking for X or corporate
38:31
strategies Y and they all match up. but invariably
38:33
you've got a couple tough meetings in the middle
38:35
where you've got to push some teams a little
38:37
more do things a little differently but those
38:39
are probably some of the big things compress
38:41
timelines use your planning system i like using
38:45
it once maybe twice max and then get into excel
38:48
so i really like excel for high level rno's your
38:52
three months into your year go into excel do
38:55
an rno or you know we have five million upside
38:57
on sales two million upside on profit here's
38:59
the couple drivers make sure everyone agrees
39:01
don't go back and put that in your planning system
39:04
again don't do a bottom -up by skew keep everyone
39:07
out of that think about that fa and p and it's
39:10
always a trade -off when you're a non -finance
39:12
professional it's easy to say okay finance team
39:14
go do another bottom -up build i want to get
39:16
that to the exact dollar the trade -off is you're
39:19
taking all those resources away from people that
39:22
could be doing analytics to drive the business.
39:24
So have faith. You've got a good budget. You
39:26
can do an R and O and get it plus or minus in
39:29
Excel and then free up everyone's time to do
39:32
analytics to drive the business. So that's a
39:34
couple ideas on budgeting. Yeah, I appreciate
39:38
the advice. Yeah, everybody's going to have a
39:39
different opinion, but I can understand the compressed.
39:41
I often think it's too long. You know, bottoms
39:44
up is great. I love when you said the ideal is
39:47
when they match. I can't say I've experienced
39:50
them matching. That's the dream for all of us,
39:54
right? To get that, that bottoms up done and
39:57
the board looks good. All done. I don't think
40:01
it's ever matched for me. I've certainly had
40:03
examples where it's close enough and you tweak.
40:05
I always find you, you got to do the top down
40:08
first and you let the organization know, listen,
40:10
we're trying to get back to shareholders with
40:12
this plan. If you're in this range, we're talking.
40:15
If you're planning something completely different,
40:17
we have a big problem here. And then come tell
40:19
me early in the process. Okay. You set a 5 %
40:22
sales growth target. I'm looking at minus two.
40:24
We need a meeting right away. Not at the end
40:26
of planning to say we have a big gap. Early conversations
40:30
back and forth. So hopefully you get to a 5 %
40:32
top down, a 4 % bottom up, and then you can,
40:35
you know, tweet. Couldn't agree more with those
40:39
conversations, bring issues early, have an idea
40:42
of what's expected when you start. I had one
40:45
year with the business where they wouldn't give
40:47
us any numbers, like just build it all up and
40:49
then see if it comes back at the end. And we
40:51
had to cut everything across everybody, you know,
40:54
based on a top -down approach and nobody recognized
40:57
their numbers. And it was just, it was just a
40:59
nightmare. It always is when that happens. Everyone's
41:02
lived through that. They go build it and come
41:04
back and show me. And someone says, I don't agree.
41:06
You got to give some guardrails at least play.
41:09
This is the sandbox you can play in. The other
41:12
thing I really like doing is portfolio management.
41:15
So it works in the food industry or works everywhere
41:18
to say, OK, let's let's put all of our brands
41:20
or if you're in the banking industry or banking
41:22
products in a grid of what's growing and what's
41:25
making the most money and therefore what do we
41:27
want to promote? So if you have brands in this
41:30
category, you're more likely to get more marketing
41:32
budget, more capex spending. If you're a divest
41:35
brand or a hold onto brand, you know, don't bring
41:38
a record or bring your advertising up. We're
41:40
not going to give it to you. Don't ask for CapEx
41:42
to build an innovation on a new skew. It's not
41:44
going to happen. So I think your strategy team's
41:46
got to do a good job of saying to all the business
41:49
units, here's where you fit into the master story.
41:53
You know, you guys are a hold, you're a grow,
41:55
you're a divest, you know, you're an invest brand.
41:58
Yep. No, I hear you. I think that's great. great
42:01
advice for every brand to kind of understand
42:04
here's how we're thinking about you strategically
42:06
here's your framework you need to operate in
42:09
because it saves you so much time if you know
42:12
up front versus guessing yeah that should be
42:15
strategy fp and a along with the strategy department
42:18
and marketing putting that together agreed all
42:21
right so we're going to move into our fp and
42:22
a section this we have a couple questions around
42:24
fp and a kind of looking for some kind of quick
42:27
short answers we'll start with the ones we ask
42:30
everybody What is the number one technical skill
42:33
that FP &A professionals should master? I love
42:37
to hear your answer. It's gotta be Excel. I don't
42:40
know how it's not. If you go back and ask people
42:44
20 years ago, let's get rid of Excel, let's get
42:46
into all these other systems. I've watched it
42:49
the last 20 years and everyone comes back to
42:51
Excel. There's a couple neat systems out there,
42:53
Power BI looks really good, but I don't know
42:56
how you don't have amazing Excel skills. We'll
42:59
talk about the soft side and probably storytelling
43:01
other stuff, but you have to start with Excel.
43:04
Tell me what, what are other people saying? Is
43:06
there a dream system that's going to replace
43:08
Excel? I mean, spreadsheets are going, aren't
43:11
going anywhere. Obviously, you know, a lot of
43:13
startups use Google Sheets, which is very similar
43:15
to Excel. I mean, I think every FPNA professional
43:18
has done have spreadsheet skills and those are
43:21
preferably going to be Excel. No question. I
43:23
think some of the other answers, I guess, sometimes
43:25
you hear financial modeling. I've heard simplicity.
43:30
I've even heard one say anticipation, a couple
43:32
say accounting, but definitely the most common
43:35
answers for sure are some combination of spreadsheets
43:39
and modeling. I don't know how it's not. I mean,
43:41
I'm sure everyone's met at a genius Excel modeler
43:44
that can't get themselves out of it and present
43:46
it. That's where the soft skills come in. But
43:48
you have to start with that. Like if I didn't
43:50
have those skills back in the day, I don't now,
43:52
but I wouldn't be where I am. Yeah. As I've often
43:55
heard it said, your technical skills get you
43:57
your first job. Generally your soft skills get
44:00
you promoted. It's good. Yep. It's good analogy
44:02
for sure. What's the number one soft, softer
44:06
human skill we need? I mean, I don't know how
44:09
it's not storytelling. We talked a little bit
44:11
of a four, but ultimately your technical skills
44:14
generally have a oodles and oodles of data and
44:17
it's your job because management doesn't have
44:19
the time to get through it all, conceptualize
44:22
it up. and make it simple. And you're asking
44:24
for advice on presenting before. How do you get
44:26
that onto one page? I have done this analysis
44:29
on this scope. I've looked at all this. My conclusions
44:32
are A, B and C. And based on that, my recommendation
44:35
is to do D. And here's potentially a visual of
44:38
what that looks like. You have to be able to
44:41
tell it in English to tell it simply without
44:44
an Excel formula. You're never going to say I
44:46
did a V lookup to get no one cares how you got
44:49
it. I pivoted this and put no, I don't care.
44:51
How do you bring simple answers in for management
44:55
to take action? I was talking about that earlier.
44:57
Then beyond the storytell, bring a recommendation
45:00
and bring it that ties back to the corporate
45:03
strategy. So the corporate person you're presenting
45:05
to says, my strategy is X. They're listening
45:07
to me. I can see how it links to our corporate
45:09
strategy. It makes money. It's solid Reco. It's,
45:12
you know, it's doable. So it'd have to be storytelling
45:15
with a, you know, a bias for action. I really,
45:18
I love the bias fraction and yeah, storytelling
45:20
is one we hear a ton, uh, communication. I've
45:23
heard active listening, sometimes, uh, business
45:25
partnering, you know, there's a lot of interaction
45:27
between them, uh, persuasion, but you know, it's
45:31
usually almost always some form of communication
45:35
is generally the answer I hear that by far the
45:39
most often. There are some others, but those
45:41
will be the most common persuasion is a good
45:43
one. You have the insights and the knowledge.
45:46
How do you persuade your leaders to take action?
45:51
Yeah. I really honor my career. I thought, but
45:52
it's just a good idea. Everybody will follow
45:54
along. Yeah. I quickly realized that's not how
45:57
life works. I, you're young and egotistical,
46:02
maybe a little, and you've done the analysis
46:03
and you know, you're right. And I used to say
46:05
to people, but I know I'm right. Why aren't they
46:07
going along with me? Well, I didn't tie it into
46:09
corporate strategy. I didn't make it simple.
46:12
I just said I'm right and go with me. Um, and
46:15
you really learn it's important to bring people
46:16
along and give them context, but keep it simple.
46:20
The facts without the story really often don't
46:23
speak for themselves to the broader group. They
46:26
may to you who did the analysis, uh, without
46:29
that persuasion and that story telling a lot
46:31
of times it's just like, well, no, but then here's
46:32
what I always believed in. I don't buy your numbers.
46:35
All right. This is a fun one. I like gas cause
46:37
I just love to see the different answers you
46:39
get. If you could wave a magic wand. and change
46:42
one thing about FP &A, what would you change?
46:47
I mean, I think it's back to that FP &A, FA &P.
46:51
I mean, I could... I figured you were gonna go
46:53
there. That's what I was expecting. I mean, the
46:55
backup one would be AI to build an amazing budgeting
46:58
system that saves all of us hours and hours of
47:01
work, and that'll happen one day, but... I think
47:04
the main one is really just getting people mentally
47:06
focused on how do I get myself out of trying
47:08
to do 100 % perfect forecast. Cause if you six
47:11
month of forecast, by the time you get to the
47:13
end, you've got all this new information, your
47:15
budget's wrong. Like how do you get your mindset
47:17
of one day a week, I'm doing budgeting and forecasting
47:20
and four days a week I'm doing analytics. And
47:23
even if my budget, I did a B, B plus, I got the
47:26
company going the right direction. I'd much rather
47:28
have someone who has a couple of errors and doesn't
47:30
have a perfect budget. Who brings five analysis
47:33
where we take pricing, change, mix, discontinue
47:35
this, invest over here, bring a strategic analysis
47:38
on asset allocation. I take that any day over,
47:41
you know, a perfect budget. Um, so I think a
47:45
F A and P mentality. I like it so that we're
47:49
going to change it to F A and P. And, uh, you
47:52
know, when it comes to shortening the budget
47:54
and be able to focus on analytics, being a business
47:56
of one, it's great now. Yeah, my budget spend
47:58
a few hours. I got good enough. Let's just start
48:01
doing stuff. It's probably a lot easier without
48:03
a boss, eh, who wants a, you know, doesn't always
48:06
agree with not wanting a perfect budget, but.
48:08
Yep. I just got to go. Is there enough cash flow
48:10
to pay all my bills this month? The timing. Okay.
48:14
Is this idea working? Nah, let's try something
48:17
else. It's a pretty, pretty simple budget process.
48:20
All right. So this is a question I haven't asked
48:23
this one before. Wanted to get your thought.
48:25
As you know, as you look out at the business
48:27
and look at your career, do you believe the FP
48:29
&A profession gets the credit it deserves from
48:31
the business? Kind of the respect that it should
48:34
have. That's interesting. I mean, I'd say it
48:38
all depends on the group. I mean, I'm being part
48:41
of some really strong FP &A functions and some
48:43
not so strong. Obviously, you get more credit
48:45
with better functions. I use Kraft as an example.
48:48
Kraft had FP &A at the heart of what it was doing.
48:51
I mean, philosophically, you were a business
48:53
partner. You're involved in everything. And what
48:55
I drove from a finance function is we said, okay,
48:59
we've got to hire the best people out there.
49:00
So we were at the best universities in Canada
49:03
and Ontario, the best MBA schools, hiring the
49:06
best and brightest. So that built the best people
49:09
in. We invested in technology and tools. So when
49:12
we were made the center, we brought everything
49:14
and got with it, got the right people. So I would
49:16
say a hundred percent, there were awards for
49:19
finance professionals. There was always cross
49:22
-functionals, one together, finance was included.
49:25
I really like that culture of putting finance,
49:28
not at the center, but an integral part of the
49:30
business. You know, I've been in a couple other
49:32
places where FPD is more of an afterthought and
49:35
a little more, you know, reporting and back shop.
49:38
And so did they get credit? No. Um, now this
49:41
is that a circular reference that because you're
49:43
doing reporting, maybe you don't get the best
49:45
people in and you're going to get the best people
49:47
and they're not bringing analysis and recos forward.
49:50
So it's kind of a circular reference. So I'd
49:52
say that. Places where I've been, where we have
49:55
really good at the 18, I got a great at P and
49:58
18. Now I think they get credit for some of the
50:00
great work they do, but I think it's a little
50:02
bit. What's the business asking for? If you set
50:05
up a finance function, if the president say sets
50:07
up it to be a reporting function, then you're
50:10
probably not going to get credit because you
50:11
might not deserve credit because you're doing
50:13
reporting. If the president leadership team sets
50:15
it up as an analytic function that we want value
50:18
added up. Um, so you need to bring good governance,
50:21
good controls, but Analysis is a big part of
50:24
it. I'm sure you get the credit you deserve.
50:27
It makes a lot of sense. And I'd agree with that
50:29
as I look back at my career is it's really, are
50:32
you doing analytics? Are you asking to be strategic?
50:34
If you're just doing reporting, it's hard for
50:37
people to really be like, Oh, wow, that's a great
50:39
report. You added so much value. And so some,
50:43
there's a cultural aspect to it, but there's
50:46
also that. How do you, when you get into that
50:49
role, if they're just asking for reporting, how
50:50
do you build a relationship so you can go beyond
50:52
that? Right? How do you try to help the business
50:55
realize that you can add value and sometimes
50:58
you can do that in some companies and sometimes
51:00
you're not going to do it until you go to a new
51:01
company. I think some of the best people that
51:04
worked in FP &A for me, usually some form of
51:07
self -starter and really junior, you might give
51:09
them a report and they do find a way to simplify,
51:13
automate, and they come back and say, Hey, that
51:15
last person took a week to do that. I do it in
51:17
a day now. What can you give me these other four
51:20
days? And I'd like to take on this project and
51:22
can I go look at this and then, you know, someone
51:24
like that's always going to get the credit they
51:26
deserve. So, you know, how can you be a self
51:28
starter and look at simplifying your reports
51:30
yourself to free up time to do the 80 % on the
51:34
eight? I love that. Yeah. So nothing is better
51:37
than having a self starter with strong technical
51:39
skills that can take things and automate them
51:42
and then come ask you, what else can I do? I
51:44
mean, I've had a few like that and make your
51:46
life so much easier as a manager. All right,
51:49
we're going to move into the get to know you
51:50
section. Have just a couple of questions here
51:52
to get to know you a little more personally.
51:54
What's your favorite hobby or passion when you're
51:57
not at work? What do you like to do? I love to
52:00
golf, but I'll say on an FP &A podcast, one of
52:02
my favorite things is to play poker and poker
52:06
is such an amazing game to hone. You're not doing
52:10
calculus and trigonometry. but you're doing math
52:13
probability. I love that part, but I love people
52:16
watching storytelling. So poker is about telling
52:20
a story. I'm telling you what hand I have, and
52:22
I want you to make a mistake on your betting,
52:24
because I'm telling you I have this hand, even
52:25
though I don't. So I love the aspect of that.
52:29
I love the competitive part of it. You know,
52:31
being with friends and having a good time and
52:33
being competitive. But I love that poker brings
52:36
an element of math, but an element of psychology
52:38
as well. So I would. You'll see me out playing
52:42
golf or playing poker with my friends. So favorite
52:47
type of poker? Do you have a certain game you
52:49
like to play? Texas Hold 'em. I don't think we
52:53
used to play goofy games years ago. It's all
52:55
we play now. Got it. I like it. All right. If
53:00
you could recommend one book to our audience
53:02
to read, what's the book you're going to recommend?
53:04
I'll give you two quick ones. If you're looking
53:08
for strategy books, this is my favorite. It's
53:12
always on my desk playing to win. It was written
53:14
by one of the old executives of Procter & Gamble
53:18
and it's kind of a must read. So if your manager
53:22
or boss says to you, I want you to build a strategy
53:24
for this brand, this whatever, this division,
53:27
this unit, this brand, you got to read that book.
53:30
It's not a huge read. It dumps it down, explains
53:33
corporate strategy and it's really about congruence.
53:36
So it really focuses, focuses you and make sure
53:39
that you're thinking through the whole value
53:41
stream. You're being congruent on your strategies
53:43
all the way through. So it's a lot of fun. A
53:46
great book on a personal level. If, if someone's
53:49
looking more for development, one of my favorite
53:51
books is one called strength finder. Um, I'll
53:54
give you the 32nd behind that. One thing in my
53:57
career, really big in a sort of development planning,
53:59
I really used to emphasize a lot. These are the
54:02
things you got to get better. These are the things
54:03
I got to get better at. I had this one employee
54:06
who was so amazing at one thing and I didn't
54:09
understand why we were spending so much time
54:11
on his little tiny development needs and holding
54:13
it back because he was so good at this other
54:15
stuff. And what strength binder talks about is
54:18
you got to where you are in your life because
54:20
you have strengths. And so why not double down
54:24
on those strengths? You can still improve your
54:26
weaknesses, but take your strengths. Maybe it's
54:28
your presentation skills, your analytics, storytelling,
54:30
whatever it is, but double down on your strengths
54:33
rather than Spending all this time trying to
54:36
fix development needs and weaknesses. Of course,
54:38
there's a mix of both of them, but if, if you
54:40
look up strength finder, it's a really short
54:42
book. It also comes with an exercise on how you
54:45
determine what your strengths are. But I think
54:47
about stars I work with, like our friend Ron
54:49
in his career, you know, you see strengths that
54:52
they have, and I'd rather see Ron double down
54:56
on his strengths and grow through the company
54:58
with that. Then spend all this time doing development
55:02
plans on small things, you know, So development
55:05
plans are important, but I just love Strength
55:07
Miner. It really changed my mindset on, I'm going
55:09
to really double down on what I'm good at. That's
55:12
great. And I've seen some other things about
55:14
that. You're going to get more benefit over the
55:16
long run by focusing on your strengths and making
55:19
them just excellent. Make sure you really stand
55:22
out than trying to get all your deficiencies
55:25
to good. Get them to the level you have to, to
55:28
move up, but don't try to make them great. Really.
55:32
focus on your strengths to really set yourself
55:36
apart. I think it's - Perfect analogy. I never
55:39
really thought of it that way, but yeah, if you
55:40
get your development needs, at least they're
55:42
at the good level. Maybe they're not going to
55:43
become overarching strength, but once you get
55:45
them there and you got to make sure you don't
55:47
have a career staller. I like to talk to employees
55:49
about like, listen, this is not only a development
55:52
needs, a career staller. Like you have a big
55:54
problem. We got to address that, but you don't
55:55
have career stallers and they're just development
55:57
needs. You keep working on it, but you really
55:59
say, okay, what I'm amazing at Is presenting
56:02
in front of audiences and that's what's going
56:04
to make me a CEO one day. How do I keep working
56:07
that keep getting in front of people keep showing
56:09
what I'm good at. I could go work on my technical
56:11
skills, but that's what's going to make me, you
56:14
know, the CEO one day, not being a technical
56:16
expert because your development needs now. As
56:19
an analyst, as a manager, as a director, as a
56:21
VP, they all evolve. You know what my development
56:24
plan as now as a VP is much different than when
56:27
I was a, you know, junior analyst. Oh, I'm sure
56:31
it's changed a lot. All right. So we'll do one
56:33
more question. Then we're going to go ahead and
56:35
wrap up. If you could be any superhero, who would
56:39
you be and why? I'm not really a superhero guy.
56:43
I don't like the not a big Marvel comic and all
56:45
that sort of stuff. So I'm going to say a kind
56:48
of goofy one. And I love Sherlock Holmes. I love
56:51
detective and analyzing and problem solving.
56:54
And I just used to love the British Sherlock
56:57
Holmes TV series. And they've done different
57:00
iterations of them, but I, I, I would be that
57:03
I'd want my brain to be even more powerful to
57:06
solve problems and, you know, called not necessarily
57:09
the business world called bad people out, but
57:11
find problems. And, you know, and the, I guess
57:13
it would be solving crimes on that side in the
57:16
business world, you know, solving problems. So
57:17
I, you know, I always joke about why I'm a Sherlock
57:19
Holmes and I love an Excel being a Sherlock Holmes.
57:23
I can't do the formulas. with all these uh this
57:25
new generation out but what I can do is look
57:28
at a spreadsheet and say that doesn't make sense
57:30
I don't know what form I don't even understand
57:32
that formula but that number coming out is not
57:35
right so go back and look at that and that they'll
57:37
sometimes say oh the Sherlock Holmes of my Excel
57:40
templates yes being able to pass that sniff test
57:43
and look at something and just say it's wrong
57:44
you don't need to understand the formula you
57:46
don't need to understand all the inputs but you
57:48
can just look at an output and be like That doesn't
57:51
100%. That's need to figure out why. Definitely
57:54
one of my strengths. Love it. And I love the
57:58
Sherlock Holmes example because my wife loves
57:59
Sherlock Holmes. Oh, there you go. British. So
58:02
what a whether he other things Superman or Batman
58:05
or the Hulk. You know, I haven't asked that question
58:08
very many times, right? I kind of mix it up.
58:11
I've been trying some new ones lately, so I can't
58:13
think of any good answers to that one yet, but.
58:16
I would imagine if I started asking it more,
58:18
yeah, the Batman, the Superman, you know, the
58:21
normal ones we get. Like somebody one time, you
58:25
know, wanted to be able to be invisible. Yep.
58:27
Might be nice. Yeah, I wouldn't mind that one.
58:30
Sometimes be a fly on the wall of some of those
58:32
mediums. Yeah, exactly. Well, thank you so much
58:35
for joining me today. I've thoroughly enjoyed
58:37
the conversation. You know, and if somebody wants
58:39
to learn more about you or possibly get in touch,
58:42
what's the best way for them to do that? I mean,
58:45
definitely through LinkedIn. Uh, I mean, I'm
58:47
on LinkedIn every day looking at stuff. I, you
58:51
know, I love now. I don't know if you play it.
58:52
LinkedIn has added a bunch of games on there
58:54
now, which are really fun little puzzles and
58:56
games. Oh, I love it. Such a great brand strategy.
58:58
Cause it pulls me into LinkedIn. Then I see what's
59:01
going on with my contacts. I just love LinkedIn
59:03
to keep up with the industry and everything's
59:05
going on. So that would be a way to reach me.
59:07
My emails on that and all my contact information.
59:10
So anyone's ever interested in talking or whatever,
59:13
um, that would place be the place to get a hold
59:15
of me. Well, perfect. Yeah, no, I have played
59:17
the games and obviously I spent a lot of time
59:19
on LinkedIn as well. So I understand that one.
59:21
So thank you, Andrew. I really enjoyed chatting
59:23
with you and I'm sure my audience will enjoy
59:25
this as well. So thanks again. Thanks a lot.
59:28
It was amazing. I appreciate it. That's it for
59:31
today's episode of FPNA Unlocked. If you enjoy
59:34
FPNA Unlocked, please take a moment to leave
59:37
a five star rating and review. It's the best
59:40
way to support the FPNA guy. and help more FP
59:43
&A professionals discover the show. Remember,
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you can earn CPE credit for this episode by visiting
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EarmarkCPE .com, downloading the app, and completing
59:56
the quiz. If you need continuing education credits
59:59
for the FPAC certification, complete the quiz
1:00:02
and reach out to me directly. Thanks for listening.
1:00:05
I'm Paul Barnhurst, the FP &A guy, and I'll see
1:00:09
you next time.