Latest / Leanne's Podcast / Wenna’s Story

Transcript

Wenna’s Story · Leanne's Podcast

• 0:07
  SPEAKER_03: Hey guys, welcome back to Motherhood Honestly.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_03: Season two is fine.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and I'm not sure how we made it this far.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_03: If you're new around here, this is the podcast where we talk about the bits of motherhood that don't always make it onto Instagram.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_03: The messy bits, the funny bits, the heartbreaking bits, and everything else in between.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_03: And if you've been here since season one, welcome back.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_03: You're the reason I'm started recording season two.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_03: You clearly enjoyed listening to Mums Over Share, so you're definitely in the right place.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_03: This season is bigger, more honest, and full of incredible women and maybe men, spoiler alert, sharing their journeys, and I cannot all wait for you to hear them.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_03: So grab a cup of, settle in, and let's get into season two of Motherhood Honestly.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_03: My next guest is someone you may recognise from her advocacy work online, raising awareness of neurodivergence and mental health.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_03: Winner became a mum at just 18, and her journey has included the NICU, postpartum depression, struggles with bonding, and a life-threatening experience with maternal sepsis after the birth of her daughter.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_03: Today she's a mum of two incredible children and a passionate advocate for neurodivergence, a senior HR partner, and a psychology student working towards her dream of becoming a clinical psychologist.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_03: Alongside everything else, Wenna also experienced the devastating loss of her dad last year, suddenly.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_03: Now she's channeling some of that grief into something incredibly meaningful by training for the London Marathon in support of the British Heart Foundation, helping raise awareness and support vital work in Heart Health.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_03: If you would like to support Wenna's fundraising, the donation will be shared at the end of the podcast.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_03: But today we're talking all things motherhood, so grab a cupper, settle in.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_03: This is Wenna's story.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome to the podcast.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for having me.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for coming on a lovely Wednesday morning.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_03: I've set you over a cup of tea.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_03: It was too early for a gin or a wine.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_03: I've got an orange juice, but I've just spilled it all down me.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_03: It's going well, guys.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_03: Um so I guess for anyone who doesn't know you, tell me a little bit about you and who you are.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, so I'm Wenna.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_04: I'm a mum of two teenagers.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_04: I have to make a point that one of them is an adult.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_04: Um, he likes everyone to know that he's an adult now.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so yeah, I'm a mum of two and I work in HR.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I'm also a part-time psychology student and a content creator.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_04: You're a busy gal.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_04: I am.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_03: And you were about to run the run the London marathon.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, yeah, I thought, you know, why not?
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_04: Throw that in there, mate.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_03: Just throw that in there.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_03: Why not?
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_03: We were just talking that you're married to your lovely husband Mark, who I used to work with, and we were just saying that he's like a golden retriever, isn't he?
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, absolutely.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, great guy.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_03: Um you described yourself as a chronic oversharer and an accidental advocate.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_03: Tell me about that.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_04: So um around it's coming up to about six years um ago, I got an autism diagnosis.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so went through that process um and one day decided to kind of share my story online.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_04: Not really thinking much of it, very nearly didn't press post.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_04: Same.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_04: Because I just thought, yeah, who who cares?
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_04: Like, you know, who cares?
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but apparently a lot of people do care.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and it's kind of just organically grown.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I now somehow, this sounds insane to even say it out loud, but have over a hundred thousand people that follow me.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know what's wrong with them, um, but that somehow they like me.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_03: So cool, so cool.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_04: But it's kind of just, and I say accidental advocate because I think I've kind of it's opened up opportunities to kind of do some real kind of advocacy work, yeah.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_04: Um, in a professional sense, but also, I mean, I only share about my own experience.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_04: I'm very kind of careful because I know you know everyone's experience is very different.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and obviously there's been developments along the way as well, um, and further diagnoses, yeah.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and it's just kind of grown from there.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_04: So it's you know, it's kind of a real mix of that raw, kind of unfiltered um, this is how my brain works, yeah.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and a mixture of that with kind of comedy and me laughing at my own jokes.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_04: I love your skits, you know.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_04: I love them.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_04: Why not?
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_03: Only because I can slightly relate to some of them.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_03: So I I I love them, I love them.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_03: Um so you are neurodivergent yourself and you were diagnosed later on in life.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_03: Um I know we're gonna talk a lot about that, but how much do you think understanding your brain has changed the way you understand your younger self?
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, massively.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_04: I think I've certainly think there's a real kind of process that you go through with like a diagnostic journey.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_04: So there is kind of grief in that.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_04: So you kind of look back, there's kind of a lot of empowerment that you kind of do look back and think, oh, that makes so much sense.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_04: And yeah, I was really struggling at the time, and you can kind of look back and give your younger self a bit of grace and more understanding, and think, oh, that's why I reacted like that, that's why I did that.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that's you know, whether that's mistakes, whether that's good things.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_04: I think it just kind of starts to really paint a kind of better picture of kind of why and how you've kind of ended up where you are.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I feel like in the last few years as well, especially like um neurodivergence is like blown up in the media, hasn't it?
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_03: Like hugely.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's so it's it's I don't know what your experience, but I guess for someone on the outside looking in, uh currently awaiting an ADHD diagnosis.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_03: Um you know, the information that's put out there, I I at the moment I feel like everybody gets an ADHD diagnosis.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_03: What's your thought on that?
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_03: Because I know everyone's like, oh yeah, I'm a little bit spicy.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_03: You know what you know you've said it on your skits and stuff.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_03: What's your thought on thoughts on that?
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_03: For someone who's had you know multiple diagnoses on it, yeah, and I've also worked in that world as well.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_04: So um I think it's important to say it's actually really hard to get a diagnosis, yeah.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_04: So, and that's you know, in terms of one, the accessibility, but also to kind of reach that kind of point.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_04: So the kind of to reach the the clinical um criteria is actually really difficult.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_04: So for someone like me that that is autistic and ADHD, yeah, um it's been you know, probably easier to kind of it's very clear to kind of meet that criteria, yeah.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but I think there's definitely a big stigma, again, because we do have the power of social media, yeah, which is a really great tool.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_04: So obviously it means that you know we're talking about that more, so it does, you know, it very much seems that it's easy, but is it easier?
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_04: Um, to some extent to be able to kind of get a diagnosis.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_04: Obviously, you know, when when we were kids, there's there's no way, like being girls, there's no way we would have, you know, it could have been very, very obvious.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_04: And for me personally, it wasn't obvious.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, it is now when I look again look back and I'm like wow, how do I mean even as an adult, I was shocked with the ADHD diagnosis, and I I think to myself, well, really, that was you know, not a surprise.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_04: Um, it's very obvious, but there just wasn't that pathway, just was not there.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_04: So um we've also so that's kind of been opened up, and also the kind of in terms of kind of going back to the kind of the clinical criteria that you know people if they are seeking a diagnosis should be looking at a multidisciplinary team, so it's not just one person's opinion.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_03: No, of course.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_03: I suppose there's a group of people that collectively decide yeah, your but your your diagnosis essentially and non non-diagnosis does happen.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, um, there are people that go looking, you know, for those kind of answers and they may then be put on a different route.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but I think a lot of the time, I think it is portrayed in the media, like, oh well, everyone's you know, a little bit this and everyone's a little bit that, and and there's even when you think about kind of autism, I think people think that the the kind of spectrum is very linear, but it's more kind of spherical.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_04: So you can certainly have traits of both, like people could or they could have have no traits at all, but is looking at that, how does that impact your life?
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_04: How much of that is impacting you daily?
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_04: And you know, they're both classed as you know, disabilities.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_04: So, you know, how you know, how long has that impacted you for?
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_04: Because if that's more of a kind of current thing, then yeah, you'd be looking at a non-diagnosis.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, if that's something that has kind of always been there, and it can change, it can evolve, you know.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_04: So, even for instance, kind of my sensory triggers might be different now as an adult as they were as a child.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, there are some that are still the same.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_04: Shout out to balloons, I still don't like them.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_03: Lucky there's no balloons in the house then, you're you're all clear of a balloon.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_03: It's funny that you say about the like the linear effect as well, because my podcast before with Vanessa, so she is neurodivergent herself and she teaches children, you know, send children.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_03: She was saying in school, she's a math teacher, that you know, if you think of an ADHD person, a child, it's a boy that can't sit still on his chair.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_03: If you think of an autistic person, it's someone that can't look you in the eye.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but and she had to go and research all of this because that's just not the case.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_03: They've been put in this one box where actually there's multiple different things, you know.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so it really opened my eyes to it as well.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, you can see now, like I make really intense eye contact.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_04: She is definitely doing me.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_04: I'm loving it.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_04: I'm loving it, guys.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_04: We've got my shades on.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_04: Where I think a lot of people think, what is this?
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_03: I think that's really nice though.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_03: Like I think that's a great connection, but you know, but again, you've been diagnosed as being autistic, yeah, but you've not taken your eye off off my stain of my orange juice.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_03: Just looking deep into your soul.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_04: Thanks for using.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you very much.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for sharing about that though, because um I know we're gonna go like more into it within the podcast, but it just it gives me a bit of a chance and and the listeners to know a little bit more about you.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I want to jump into the children.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_03: Let's call them children, not adults.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_03: Luca, I'm talking about you.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_03: Um I want to jump into so Luca's the oldest, right?
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, okay.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna take you back to the beginning because you fell pregnant with Luca at 18.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, and although he was planned, yeah, um, you faced a lot of judgment, didn't you?
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, still to this day.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, people will still make comments and be like, oh, you know, if they find out that I've got an 18-year-old, nearly 19-year-old, and they'll look at me and be like, trying to do the maths.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and you know, obviously I love the comments when people you know people are saying, You don't look old enough.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you very much.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, thank you very much.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but you know, there is always that judgment of kind of you know, or assumption that he was not planned.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, um, but you know, anyone that knows me knows that if I want something, I'm like, right, okay, I've made up my mind, we're doing this.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_04: And it was very much like that.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_03: And Mark was on board as well.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, absolutely.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_03: Mark was the second part of the equation.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_03: You and Mark have been together for a long time though, right?
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, 20 years.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_03: 20 years.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_03: I'm on year four when um Lord help me.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so yeah, just that's that's amazing.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_03: That's 20 years, that's amazing.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, 20 years together, 10 years married.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, gosh, yeah.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_03: Shout out, Mark.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_03: Love that.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_03: With Luca, you I'm gonna try and say this right.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_03: You experienced hypermesis myth.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_03: You say it.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_04: No, I can't pronounce it either.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_04: Hyperamisis Gravidarum, basically continuous sickness, yeah, like really extreme and severe like sickness throughout.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_03: It's not even just like the morning, it's like constant constant.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_03: How difficult was that?
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_03: Because I I've spoken to a few people that have had it and it it changes you, like it was hell, hell.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I mean, there's still some things I can't eat and drink, or like certain like I can't be around like the smell of bleach now, like other certain like triggers, which I think you get when you're pregnant anyway, but yeah, just yeah, it was awful.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, I to begin with lost so much weight.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_04: I was working in retail at the time.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_04: Um pistol bitted, so you did first job, yeah, exactly.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_04: Luxury retail, and I'd be turning up, you know, and sometimes late for work because I'm I would think at the time of first being pregnant, um, I didn't pass my driving test until I was like 20 weeks pregnant.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_04: Pretty sure they took pity, but I'll take it.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_03: I will vomit over this steering wheel if you do not pass me.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, exactly.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_04: So, you know, turning up to work with like you know, sick on me and just trying to kind of scrub it off in the in the staff toilets, it just it was just awful.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_04: How long did that last?
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_04: So the whole pregnancy, literally until I gave birth, and then I was like, Oh, I don't feel sick anymore.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_03: Like it was instant, it was so weird, so weird.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_03: I couldn't imagine it.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_03: I couldn't, I couldn't imagine it.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_03: Um, your water started leaking at 39 weeks, and you were told initially that it was your bladder.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_03: How did you know that something wasn't right?
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_03: Because I could imagine many women are told this, you're just weing yourself, you know, because that does happen in pregnancy.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_03: How did you know that this this was was something wasn't right?
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_04: Well, first of all, my wee um doesn't smell super sweet.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_04: Sorry, I'm not perfect.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_04: We can't have it all.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_04: It smells dehydrated, we can't have it all.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_04: No, um, and you know yourself though.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_04: I know myself, and you know, I was heavily pregnant.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_04: I wasn't I wasn't, you know, too proud to think, oh no, you know, I've wet myself or anything like that.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_04: I think it just didn't feel right, and we'd obviously had the 20-week scan.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_04: I think we had had um not another scan, but kind of where they kind of measure your bump and they were a bit concerned that he wasn't really growing, and this had started to happen.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and I got checked out, and I remember going into the hospital um to be checked, and and this is the first time, and they said, No, we think you know, we think you're just obviously um it's just a bit of a loose bladder, you're heavily pregnant, things are getting pressed on.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and they said, Oh, we've got your blood results.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_04: I was like, You haven't drawn any blood, and so straight off the bat, I'm thinking, I'm clearly a teenage mum, I'm gonna have to really advocate for myself here.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and I was really fortunate to have an amazing community midwife here, um, and my mum, who were like, absolutely not, you need you need to get a second opinion.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, um, and obviously that still took a bit of time to then kind of get back in.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_04: And I think then by the time so I remember going in um on the Monday, and I remember it being a Monday, and because he was born on Pancake Day.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_04: So I love that.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_04: I know.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_04: Um Do you like pancakes?
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_04: I do.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_04: I missed out that yeah, I was busy.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_04: Love that.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_02: Shrew, Jesus.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_04: So I remember I remember going in and um they kind of checked me and they were like they said, Okay, actually, we do believe that you actually don't have much left, so we're gonna have to get you back in to be induced.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_04: So they said you can go home, go and kind of get some, you know, get what you need to get, um and then come back in.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_04: But in the meantime, I'd actually gone into labour.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: Oh gosh.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_04: So I'd gone to bed um early, wasn't feeling particularly well, and again, I just thought being in a hospital, waiting around, being heavily pregnant, I was just fed up at that point.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, he was so I was overdue at this point, and I was just like, like, get him out.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_04: Get him out, yeah.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and where he was pressed, I mean, that was definitely I was at the pineapple in your pants stage, like he he was fully engaged, and he was also back to back.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_04: So I was just feeling grin.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_03: Pineapple in your pants is my new saying.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_03: I've mentioned that.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_04: I've got a pineapple in my pants.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it was getting spicy down there.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_04: So I was just like didn't you nearly give birth on the toilet?
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, so so my body is very much having having two babies, it it's done the same with both of them.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_04: It just it will start off, it thinks it knows what it's doing.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_04: It's a bit like my brain, really, and then it'll just be like, Oh, I'm not really sure.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_03: Not sure now.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_04: So didn't progress.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_04: So I I go in, and again, they're looking at this teenage mum coming in, and I was like, Okay, the contractions are quite close together.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_04: Um, obviously, I need to be in here at some point anyway to be induced.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_04: So they were like, Yeah, come in.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_04: So um, I go in and they were like, You're at two centimetres, and I was like, Oh my god, this is gonna be a while.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_04: And it was it was very much like you can go and take some paracetamol.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_04: I'm like, if you look at my notes, I've got an allergy, like it was just very yeah, just very flippant, like you're making a bit of a fuss.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_04: And I was like, Look, I am really uncomfortable, it's it's feeling really painful, and I guess that is because it he was back to back, so not a nice experience.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_04: So we're there, things just don't really progress in terms of my cervix, doesn't but the pain does, so right, we're still I think hours later at about kind of four centimetres at this point.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_04: They still haven't kind of because things are slowly progressing, they're not putting me on the drip.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_04: So they're just kind of seeing how things go, yeah.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_04: And I remember being put up, um, so I wasn't in the delivery suite to begin with, um, and I remember one of the midwives saying to me, again, maybe just because my age, because it was my first baby, saying, When you feel that you want to throw yourself out of this window, and we're probably on I don't know, quite high up at this point.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_02: Level seven in the jail.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that um when you want feel like you want to throw yourself out of the window, then we'll look at kind of more pain relief.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_04: Because I was at I was very open to drugs, you know.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, give me all the drugs, like I'm not being brave now.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_04: Don't be brave, absolutely not, and I think I think the only thing they'd offered me so far, so obviously he couldn't take paracetamol.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, what is that gonna do?
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I know what is well just throw out, like come on.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_04: Um, they offered me a tens machine, which poor Mark, it was his first time too.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_04: He uh he he was in charge of the controls and he was like, Yeah, I feel like I'm gonna and it's hard for dads, isn't it?
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, like yeah, to watch the yeah, they don't want to feel like they've been getting involved.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_04: Unfortunately, he turned it up full whack thinking that would be, and I was like, straight off the bed.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_03: So just you know your listening, do not turn it over to turn straight away, Mark.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, we laugh about it now, obviously.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_03: Do you know what?
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_03: I think he taught you would do something the same, and then he'd be like, sorry, yeah, exactly.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_04: So blessing.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_04: Everyone loves a triumph.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_03: No, absolutely.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like that's you know, that's the most important you can pick.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_03: I've just turned it up high so it stops a pain.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_03: That's not how it works.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_03: It's not how it works.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_04: So, yeah, so that's so that just put me off, and I was like, do not touch me with that machine ever again.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so I'm just kind of trying to kind of ride the pain.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_04: They're looking at me like I'm just being, you know, being silly about it.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_04: And I was like, no, I I actually will chuck myself out this window, like you need to take me down to delivery, and they're still like, no, not progressing very much, but they within about an hour they do take me down, and we're just kind of left to it because again, things are slow.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and then I go from four to ten very, very quickly, and all of a sudden I'm there and sat on the bed, and I'm like, right, Mark, I need I really need to poo.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_04: Like, I just need to kind of I think have one last poo before I give birth.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_04: I obviously don't realise that I've progressed so like quickly, but I've been there for hours at this point.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_04: I'm tired, I'm grouchy, got no pain relief, and um so we go across the corridor into a shared bathroom.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_04: I sit on the toilet, and he's looking at me, and he's like, Oh my fucking god, that's a head.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_04: And he's literally doesn't say anything else.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_04: He literally puts his arms under my arms and he drags me back across into like the delivery suite, goes to get some help, and it's like, no, no, no, like the head is there, like the baby is coming.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_04: The midwife that had been with me had to swallow her pride.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_04: Hmm.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_04: Um and you know what?
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_03: You'll always remember that movie wife, don't you?
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, exactly.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_04: The other one was lovely and a lot more empathetic.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but yeah, and then within minutes they gave me a bit of um gas and air.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_04: Um bit late.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah, bit late.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but then I was having a bit of a well of a time with that, and then at one point was just like when it basically just like imitated her passing out.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_04: So I was like, oh, actually, I need to, and one of the best bits of advice I'd had, um, I think from my mum and just other women uh kind of around me was make sure you listen when there's when you're pushing, yeah, make sure you listen exactly, you know, to what they're telling you.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_04: So when they're saying stop, you need to stop, yeah, even if you feel like you need to push.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_04: So I was I was doing my best, which is why I didn't really want to be off my face.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_04: So whilst that was good for pain, I was I was to be present and stuff, yeah.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_04: So and he was born pretty quickly then.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and um, everything seemed fine.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_04: Um, obviously, there was a couple of minutes which felt like about three to five business days where he didn't cry.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_03: Um that period of time is long.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_04: Oh my god, it's awful.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_03: And it could be like 20 seconds, but it's the longest 20 seconds, yeah.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_04: Absolutely.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and we didn't know what we're having either.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_04: So really, no.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_04: So they were like, you know, here is your beautiful baby boy.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_04: They placed him on me, and I was I was just in shock.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, like it had gone from nothing to everything, yeah.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_04: And I I mean, I just thought within minutes, I thought I'd just go in for a cracking poo.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_04: And and yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's scary how quickly labour can like change.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, do you know what I mean?
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_03: It's just like you say, you've come from four centimetres, you're like, I'm just gonna go and have a poo, and then Mark's like, hold on a minute, that's not a poo.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_03: You know, like it's crazy.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so Luca was born, yeah, and you you sent something that wasn't right.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, so we stayed in the delivery, so we had my cold tea and toast.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_04: We did oh fantastic.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_03: Oh yeah.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_03: Do you know actually?
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_03: I've never told anyone this.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_03: When they bought even though I had a C section, not my fault, they bought me tea and toast, and Tommy ate half of mine.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_03: He's like, I'm starving.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_03: So I've literally just been ripped over and I feel like you need to steal his toast.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_03: Can I can I have a slice of that?
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_04: I feel like for when like if he makes toast, you just need to forever steal his toast.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_03: I only got half a slice thanks to my husband.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_03: Um so yeah, sorry.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_03: Um so yeah, Luca had been born and you you sent something wasn't right.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, so by the time we got put up onto the onto the ward, he uh he wasn't matching at all, which I know is quite normal.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_04: Obviously, I had um they had kind of come around and kind of you know done the whole thing of like grabbing your boob, trying to kind of you know, yeah, get things kind of going.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_04: Um and he kind of later that evening, so he was born kind of early afternoon, um, and later that evening he was very shaky, and I obviously didn't know what to expect from you know, yeah.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_04: No, I had no clue, no idea.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but I just knew it was just that instinct something is not right.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so I had him checked, and the midwife came over and she kind of saw what I was explaining.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_04: I was saying, like, he's a bit shaky, he's not he's not kind of latching at all, like I'm just a bit concerned.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_04: Um, she did some checks and then kind of picked him up properly and said, I'm just gonna get him checked by someone else.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_04: He didn't come back up.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_03: So he took they took him from you, yeah.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_04: So they took my baby, and the next thing you know, another midwife came to talk to me and she said he's in um he's in the NICU downstairs.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_04: And I was just like, What was wrong with your brain?
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_04: I was absolutely terrified.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_04: I had I mean at this point they had no idea what was going on.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, um, and obviously I just knew that wasn't good.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, like just knew that wasn't good.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, um they said you can come down him come down and see him, he's just having some more tests.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_04: Um, you can kind of come down an hour, which felt like the longest time.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I bet.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_03: Is Mark still with you at this point?
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_04: So no, so Mark had Mark had gone home.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_04: Um and I think I they let me down to see him again.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_04: We still had no answers.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_04: Um I had let Mark know at this point.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but I think by the time I'd been allowed to see him, like visiting hours were over as well, so it wasn't a case of he could just pop straight back, yeah.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_04: And they're so much stricter in the yeah, obviously.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_04: Um and so they did over the next few days, they did a few tests, um they did in the end, they did a blood transfusion, um, and they did like a lumbar puncture, which even on an adult, that needle to kind of aspirate is huge.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_04: So he had like a little like a little hole at the bottom of his spine for a long time.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_04: Um fully healed now.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_03: Um but for you to see that.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_03: Just wonderful.
• 27:25
  unknown: Yeah.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_03: It turned out he had an infection, right?
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, so he had caught an infection um because my waters had been kind of leaking gradually for so long.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and obviously that is why there is a rule there.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_04: So if your waters go, you need to be induced.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_04: But I think unfortunately, because I had kind of just organically and just naturally gone into labour, they were like, Well, we'll just see, but there was no I don't think anyone knew it was gonna take that long.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, but I think even being induced, uh, there was still probably a risk because I've just been left for so long.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_03: Gosh.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_03: So he um he was in the NICU and I guess so you're separated from him essentially.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_03: Um do you think like being separated from him for like that long period of time affected you affected your bond with him?
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_03: Because I know we're gonna talk a little bit about that.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_04: Um yeah.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_04: Massively.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, I so I was nine, so I was nine just nineteen when I I had in.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm up on this ward, surrounded by so at the JR, obviously it's quite a big kind of ward, yeah.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_04: It's lots of babies.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_04: You can hear babies everywhere.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_04: So all night, which is absolutely, you know, absolutely fine, but not when you don't have your own baby there.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_03: And you're like every cry access to that baby in 24-7.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_04: No, that every cry, it's kind of you know, setting your boobs off.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_04: It's just yeah, it's just that, you know, what your body and your mind thinks it should be doing.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_04: You're like, I I can't, you know, I don't know what's happening right now.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_04: Hormones are all over the place, and this is even before like day three when it's like really bad.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_04: And in the end, they moved me to a private room because I was just like sobbing.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_04: I was just not in a good way.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_04: I was just kind of I think very shocked from the kind of ordeal of the birth being really, really slow, then super, super quick.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and then and the normal thing happened of you, Mark, and and Luca going home, and yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_03: Of course.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I want to move a little bit on to now, so you guys got home, and I mean I'm gonna make a bit of a jump now from you guys getting home to around about six months.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_03: You were diagnosed with post-partum depression.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, tell me about the first six months before that when you guys got home.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_04: It was really, really hard.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_04: I remember um I remember crying to my mum about breastfeeding, so because he'd been so poorly, I couldn't actually feed like directly, and I was doing the most inefficient thing of it, just expressing, yeah.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_04: Which um I now know my boobs are just not made for like I just don't produce enough milk.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, um, and I found that really difficult, and I remember crying to my mum and her saying, he is your baby, you can you can do you can feed him how you want to feed him.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_04: As long as he's happy and healthy, do what is right for you.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and whilst I knew that, yeah, I think you just not think like I just wasn't thinking straight, sleep deprived, all of that.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, you're all over the place.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_04: I'm just like, I don't know who I am.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_04: I think I get it, I complet I get it.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I mean I think you know, like when Mark used to go to work, or even like the first time he um left me in hospital, even when I was kind of put up in the private room, I just cried.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_04: I was like, I can't, I can't do this, like just really, really hard.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_04: So yeah, those first six months was just really uh just I don't know, just really hazy.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_04: Um and not from I mean Luca slept through pretty early on, he was a really easy baby.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, um, I think it was just uh such a shock to my system, and uh because that I was almost like uh trying to push a bond that just wasn't her yeah, and I can really relate to that because you know obviously I went through something really similar when the bond isn't there, and I think there's an expectation around you, isn't there, that you know you've got this beautiful lovely baby, and you you know and you should love it and bond with it, and it's the best thing ever, and that's just not the case.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_03: You know, you said you don't remember the first two years, and we we've spoken about this before we started recording.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_03: I obviously am the same.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_03: What did that feel like for you?
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_04: I just remember being in uh just a bit of a cloud of well, obviously, you know, postnatal depression was the cloud for me, but I think you know, change in medication all the time.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_04: So I was put on to um a few different medications, which um there were kind of so many, and there was there was a reason I think which I would find out later on in life why those particular medications weren't working for me at the time.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, they were kind of um exacerbating other symptoms, so like anxiety and kind of panic.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_04: Um even though they were kind of treating the kind of the low mood, they were kind of it was kind of bittersweet because they were just making other things worse.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_03: I'm nodding and smiling because I had the same issue, so and I had to try many different ones before I found the one that worked.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_03: Um and that's not they think you know, you just think I give you one medication and that's gonna heal you, it doesn't.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_03: No, you know.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_03: Um did you talk to anyone about how you were feeling?
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_03: Obviously, I started from the going to the GP, but like Mark, your mum, like friends that did you did you talk to anyone?
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_03: Were you quite open about it?
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_04: So it was really hard, I think, with kind of friends.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_04: So, you know, I had I think a couple of really supportive friends, but they were teenagers themselves, they weren't you know parents.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_04: It was a really you know, and I very much had a kind of a real kind of be in my bonnet of I may be a teenage man, but I'm gonna prove you all wrong.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, which didn't help at all because it's you know, it was really, really difficult.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_04: And I think there was that kind of stubbornness there of not showing any kind of you know element of I can't do this.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_04: So I did speak to Mark about it, and but I think and I did speak to my mum as well.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_04: Um, they were both great, but I also I think at that stage went through a kind of self-destruct of pushing everyone away, yeah because of the shame of how I felt.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_03: And I again I think you protect your own peace, don't you?
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you don't want to bring anyone down with you, but I suppose essentially as well, especially for your age, and this isn't isn't me judging you for the age, but I suppose at that time all you mates are going out, yeah.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_03: You kind of paved the way for this early motherhood, so you've got to look like you've got your shit together, right?
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, because you're the first one.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_04: I've made this decision, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_03: So there's like a level of responsibility that you think you have, yeah.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_03: Um, when actually that's not that's not the case, like feel the feels that you need to feel, yeah.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but I think that's not just like for young ones, that's anyone.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you've got to look like you've got your shit together, but actually in reality, you don't.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_03: No, you know, like since doing this podcast, oh my god, nobody's got their shit together.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_03: No, like six months ago, I was like, fucking hell, everyone's got their shit together.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, nobody does.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_03: No, you know.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so I I guess moving on from that, you then had a lovely Freya.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_03: So it was years later you became pregnant.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_03: Was it like three or four years?
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_03: No, or so a big gap?
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_04: There is a big gap because for nearly four and a half years between them.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_04: So I so about a year after having Luca, I was diagnosed with endometriosis, had surgery, it did come back.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and so I struggled with kind of second infertility.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so obviously I decided to um get a Labrador puppy.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_04: Um you know, make sure Luca has a little friend.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and because of, you know, just it's just typical, isn't it?
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_04: Um, as soon as I had a very bouncy puppy and a, you know, an almost four-year-old, um, it was like, oh, you're pregnant!
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_03: I love that though.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_03: I I would love to get a puppy, honestly.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm gonna track now.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_03: I'd love to get a dog, but I just yeah, do it three.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, for us, guys.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_03: Tony if you're listening, Labrador, Labrador.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_03: Um your pregnancy with Freya, uh, was it different like emotionally?
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_03: Because you were like older and like knew yourself a little bit more, and obviously you've experienced like four years of motherhood.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_03: Like, tell me a little bit about that.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, so I I think I'm still very young.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_04: I'm in my early 20s at this point, um, but just kind of knew what numers are better, new in terms of kind of parenting, like new, like um like I don't know, like pregnancy groups or you know, like you know, mother and baby groups, not for me, they're just not for me.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_04: Same, yeah.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_04: I was like don't want false friends, no thank you, or anyone, and yes, my baby does not sleep through, yeah.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_04: Or just you know, to feel like any more of a failure while everyone's doing you know a bit of dick measuring, no thanks.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_04: So yeah, absolutely not.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_04: So yeah, so I kind of like things like that.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_04: I knew I knew um myself so much better at that point, well, as anyone can in their early 20s.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, come on, yeah.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so pregnancy was very, very different.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_04: I didn't show with her.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_04: I remember bumping like not until I was about she was a bigger baby than Luca, so completely different.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_04: So I put on loads of weight with Luca because I've been so poorly, and then was just trying to eat whatever I could because just to keep something down, yeah.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and then with Freya, just looks I probably look more pregnant today, to be honest.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, I just look like I'd had a big lunch.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_04: I remember bumping into people and then being like, How are you?
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_03: And be like, Yeah, great, no one knew.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_04: And I just kind of kept it.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_03: So they always say that in a second, you normally show you, but more, right?
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, so and just very kind of very neat and tidy bump.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and it wasn't until I was probably about 38 weeks that I started to have like a proper bump.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, um, a little bit of sickness at the start, but nothing, so completely different experience.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_03: Do you then think this is a girl?
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_04: So we actually, so we didn't want to find out with Freya, we went for the 20-week scam, and um we thought we saw something on the scan, so we were like, oh my god, we're having a boy.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_04: We've accidentally like found out.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_04: I then had an extra scan, um, because they were again were worried about the size of my bump.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_04: Um, she was a very averagely sized baby, she was seven pounds, like seven pound five, very average.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but they were worried, I think, on like the measurements, they were like, Oh, she's gonna be tiny.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_04: Like, she's just fine.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_04: I think she was just, I don't know, IKEA furniture was very flat-packed, maybe.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so on I had like an extra scan um just to check her size at I think it was about 36 weeks, and they said, Oh, do you know what you have?
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_04: And we said, Oh, we think so, we think.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_04: So, no one had actually confirmed which so just for anyone out there, don't guess.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_04: No, don't guess.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_04: Like, obviously, there's a reason I don't work in that that role, but no.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_04: Um don't quit your day job.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_04: Brilliant.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_04: And um, we said yes, and they were like, Oh yeah, so they started talking about um, okay, so um this is the labia.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_04: Sorry, Freya, we're just talking about this, you know.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_04: Um, with um and just kind of going through again, kind of definitely like female anatomy, and we sat there like, oh no, hang on a minute, we're having a boy.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_04: And they were like, no, like put the screen around properly to be like, you are definitely not having a boy.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_04: Like not a boy, yeah.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_04: Um so we were like, oh wow, we've accidentally found out again.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_03: So that's exciting though, yeah, isn't it?
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_04: Very exciting, and I but I at this point I bought some kind of a lot of it was like kind of Luca's stuff.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I was like, Oh my god, do I get girl stuff?
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_03: And you've only never been a boy mum, you're like, what do I do now?
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, so I was really and we have a lot of boys in the family, so I was really just I don't know, taken aback and didn't believe it.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_04: I was like, I'll believe it when I see it.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_04: So until she was placed in my arms, I was like, uh I just won't believe it.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_04: But yes, so she was in fact a girl.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_03: So you um you planned to have a home water birth, and you said that your lavador, what's the labrador called?
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_03: So he was called Otis.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_03: Otis.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_03: So Otis knew something was happening before you did.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_03: And um tell me a little bit about the experience compared to Luca's birth and your decision to plan a home water birth.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_04: So we wanted something, I think, because of kind of feeling very trapped for me, feeling very trapped in the hospital, both kind of during labour afterwards as well.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_04: I did not want to be back in that environment.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_04: Um, they didn't seem as high risk, so that I took that as right, this is a green light, I can kind of do what I want.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_04: Um, had had a really good pregnancy, um, and so we decided to have um awards both birth at home.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_04: And so on the day, um, I was just kind of minding my own business.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_04: I think I was watching One Born every minute.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_04: Love it, you know, as you do, as you do, as you do.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_04: Get some tips, yeah.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_04: Um so I'm just eating a ham sandwich, you know, sat on the sat on the seat.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_04: So you're full-term by this point.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah, you're full term, full term, and um I'm on mat leave, I'm just chilling, you know, and my yeah, my dog at the time, he would not leave me alone.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_04: Really, and I'm just like, why'd you keep looking at me?
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_04: And he kept placing his head on my legs, like when I sat down, and I just thought, oh, he's just a needy puppy, you know.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so didn't really think for much of it.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_04: Uh I think Luca was at um he was at nursery at the time.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so I'm having a nice kind of relaxed morning.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_04: Sit down to eat my lunch, um, and all of a sudden, they go pop.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_04: And I was like, okay, okay.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_04: A bit different than last time.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_04: A little bit different.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_04: That's not my bladder.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that's definitely not my bladder.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_04: So um I call the community midwife, and they're like, okay, let's kind of keep an eye.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_04: They hear that I'm watching One Born Every Minute in the background as well, and thing, and they're like, Are you sure you should be watching that?
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_04: I was like, I've done this before, I'll be fine.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_04: Also, for anyone, I don't know about you, but for anyone that hasn't been through labour and has watched One Born Every Minute, I don't think it's anything like that.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_04: Uh my experiences have been very different to that.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean, look, I obviously planned to have a water birth and then did not get that experience, so yeah.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not gonna say um that they what's uh what am I trying to say?
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_03: It it looks a lot nicer than what it is on telly, maybe.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, just very different.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_04: Just not uh some things look worse as well.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it's very I just think every birth's different.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_04: Exactly.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_03: So you're never gonna watch a birth where it's on one one every minute or on a movie that's exactly like yours.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_03: No, never.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and the problem is I compare, so I think yeah, probably so easy to compare.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_04: That's why I think it's important to be like but looking at you two completely.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_03: I know we're gonna go into this two different births.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but yeah, I do love watching one one every minute.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_03: All the cute babies, I'm like, oh my god.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, that's lovely.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_03: Spectacular, give me 14 more.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so you yeah, so you decided to have your home birth.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_03: So we're gonna talk about something now that's quite difficult.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_03: Um so you get the pool set up and the community midwife are aware that you're in labour.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_03: Talk me through the next.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_03: Few hours of what happened.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm kind of in and out of the pool, in between, kind of in the pool, getting snacks.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_04: It's quite chilled.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_04: It's lovely.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_04: Right?
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_04: You know, we've got candles on.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_04: They've bought a whole canister of entinox just for me.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, lovely.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_04: I'm like a big one as well.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm like, I'm ready.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_04: And I've got um I've got like a whole team with me.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_04: It's super chill.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_03: And this is at your home.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_04: At my home.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_04: Luca is there.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_04: So my brother had come over, he was on kind of dog and um four-year-old kind of watch.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_04: Um, in a completely different part of the house, because obviously that'll be a bit weird, wouldn't it?
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_04: But so everything is just nice and chill.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_04: So um at one point they get me out of the pool, and the midwife's like, right, I'm just gonna kind of exam you, and again, I haven't progressed.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_04: I think I stayed at about five centimetres for a long time, just it wasn't kind of progressing very much.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but still it's nice and chill, we're fine.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_04: She kind of does some, does my ops and stuff, and all of a sudden she's like, Your blood pressure is really, really high.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_04: So obviously, they've been checking this as we've kind of been, you know, the hours have gone on.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and it um it had been my blood pressure is normally super, super low.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so you kind of have your normal, don't you?
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_04: So they've obviously got all these readings and it's just shot up out of nowhere.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_04: I felt alright.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_04: I felt tired, if anything.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_04: Obviously, I'm in labour, you know.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_04: Cut myself some slack.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_04: Absolutely.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_04: But I was feeling alright within myself, yeah.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_04: And they kind of sat me down and they said, Really sorry, like you now don't meet the criteria to give birth at home.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_04: We're gonna have to escort you to the hospital, and we can do it two ways.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_04: We can either call you an ambulance or Mark can drive you and we'll escort you.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_04: So, early hours of the morning, I'm then escorted to the JR.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and again, because of the waters, they know my history as well.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_04: And they're like, We we're not even gonna give you a choice here, we're gonna we're gonna introduce you.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm like, Okay, absolutely fine.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_04: Um, whoa, that is intense.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_03: I can imagine.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_03: She Freya arrived very quickly, didn't she?
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_04: Very quickly.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_03: Talk to me about the time frames.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_04: If you can remember.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_04: So we're talking.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_04: So obviously, they tried the pettery, yeah, and I've been told it's probably not gonna do much.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_04: So I was just like, come on, give it to me.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_03: Give me the pettery.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_04: I can tell you, come on, this is a good vein, put it in.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_04: Give me that IV.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_04: So I mean it's magic stuff, but obviously it's very different from a slow labour to being then suddenly this is like a hormone-induced drip, right?
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and like the pettery up inside your fluve.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_03: Love that.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and you have both, and then so that was what like ramps it up basically.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and we're talking like within half an hour.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and I guess it pain was just very so I I am a very I mean the only time I will be silent, I am a very quiet birther.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_03: Um you're not a moo.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_04: No, not a moo.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_04: No, I think for me, because it's just bloody nackering, yeah.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_04: I think I and like I have to zone out, like the only way I can kind of cope with it.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_04: So have to zone out.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_04: So I yeah, I had her.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_04: All seemed fine.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and she was a girl.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_03: It was a girl, guys.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_04: Maybe it was correct, so and much better experience because she wasn't back to back, she was in good position.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_04: So um, yeah, it was it was just really great, and I I felt that kind of that instant connection, which I hadn't felt with Luca.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and so kind of sat there very excited, you know.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_04: Me and Mark already, like, oh, you know, can't wait for Luca to meet his little sister.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_04: Very conscious that my brother has got Luca at home, and I think um, like with the dog and things like that, Mark said, look, I'll go in kind of um sort the dog out and I'll go and pick up Luca and then we'll come, we'll come straight back.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_04: And my mum arrived not long after uh sorry, not long before he um left.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so it felt like kind of fine for him to leave.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_04: Plus it's our second and it's like why wait around, we're gonna like it.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna be out with that's right.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, exactly.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_03: And that didn't happen.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_04: No.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_03: So whilst holding Freya, you you lost consciousness.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, so I'm kind of I'm sat there with my mum, I'm kind of you know, doing the the thing of all this happened and kind of going through kind of you know what happened with my labour.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_04: So she was aware that I was in hospital and kind of why.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and I started to I remember having um what I thought at the time was after pains, and everyone had warned me that after your first the after pains you get worse, yeah.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_04: Um so I assumed I'm mid-conversation with my mum, um, I'm holding Freya and kind of just having a chat, and in between talking, I'm like, oh hang on a minute, like oh.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_04: And we're both assuming these are afterpains, just normal afterpains, and they start getting a little bit worse.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_04: But again, I you know, this is my first second baby, so yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_04: I'm just thinking again, it's just things are moving, and um put it down to that.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_04: Next thing I know, I like again just having a chat like we are now, yeah.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_04: And then next thing you know, I wake up and there is a there's a room full of like doctors, midwifes, like there's a whole like gang in in the delivery suite with me because I'm still in there, and one of the midwives is physically pumping um a bag of antibiotics, and there's multiple into me.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_04: Like they're trying to get it into me.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_04: Obviously, it's you know, IV, but they're trying to pump that in as quickly as possible.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_04: My mum um is then kind of really just I can see the she's I think very calm in situations like that.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_04: She's a bit like me, very good in a crisis, yeah.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_04: But I can see she's masking like how scared she is.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and I'm just confused, like, what the fuck is going on?
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_04: Like, where's my baby?
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_04: So I can see Freya is fine, she's absolutely fine.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and um I think at this point as well, they go and kind of take her um off, and they but they let me know, they're just like, Look, well, we're trying to get you sorted out.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_04: I have no idea what's going on.
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_04: That they say we're just gonna um take her for a little bit, she's absolutely fine, we're just trying to get you sorted.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_03: At this point, did you know there was something what was wrong with you?
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_04: No, no idea.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_04: I was just like, I think my first thought, I'm kind of trying to look down, so I'm kind of laid down, trying to look down, and I'm like, Well, I'm not bleeding.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_03: What yeah, what is down?
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, hemorrhaging, hemorrhaging, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and I mean it's difficult because even if you don't hemorrhage, there's always more blood than you realise, like you know.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so I was just really, really confused.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_04: Um, the so it was a student midwife um who was kind of talking to me.
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_04: She was also the first person in the room.
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_04: So what had happened um is I'm sure my mum told me kind of nearer the time, but I was not well enough to even take it in, but obviously had lots of conversations about it since.
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_04: So what happened during a con this conversation with my mum where everything seemed fine and I just felt a bit of pain, I had lost consciousness, nearly dropped Freya.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_04: Um luckily the kind of the bed guard rail was there.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_04: My mum grabbed her, um, and that's the first time she held her granddaughter trying to run to get help to save her own daughter.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my god, that gives me chills.
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_04: And the she said that student midwife was absolutely incredible.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_04: Really, she said she was on it straight away.
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_04: Again, you know, called for she then had to kind of bring people in.
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_04: Um and so they managed to kind of you know hook me up to everything that I needed to, you know, needed to be.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I regained consciousness um after some time, and I'm then taken to intensive care um with Freya.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_04: So we're kept together.
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_04: Um again, she's absolutely fine, perfect.
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but I'm not in a position to hold her.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_04: Um I'm not in a position to kind of like change her um or even kind of look after myself at this point.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah um and I'm then told about kind of being on all these antibiotics, and I'm then told that I have maternal sepsis and for me, because that was my second time having sepsis in general, yeah, um, I previously had it when I was 14, um it kind of clicked like I knew that pain.
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_04: There is no pain like sepsis.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_04: It is I mean it's organ failure, isn't it?
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_04: So it hurts.
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_04: Um so those after pains were my organ shutting down.
• 53:47
  SPEAKER_03: Tell me about the recovery of that.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_03: Because essentially you've also just given birth.
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_03: You've got a brand new newborn baby, you've got a four-year-old boy at home, your husband, who has probably no idea this is happening.
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, tell me it told me about that.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_03: Like, obviously, I know.
• 54:05
  SPEAKER_03: So you were you you were in you were in hospital for a week after it.
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_03: And then you you got home and you were still very unwell at the time.
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_03: Talk me through those first few days.
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_04: So I think I was very keen to get home, I think, because again, I was kind of not around Luca, and I wanted to be with him.
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_04: I wanted to kind of just be at home and like but the thing is, if you've ever been that poorly in hospital, you do have that kind of you can think that you're ready to go home, and it's always a shock.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_04: Always, it's always like, oh, actually, I am quite unwell still.
• 54:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, because you think in your brain, when you get home, you'll feel better, and sometimes that's not the case.
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_04: No, no.
• 54:51
  SPEAKER_04: So I yeah, I went home.
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_04: I couldn't do anything for Frere, definitely couldn't do anything for Luca.
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_04: He's a bouncy, you know, four-year-old.
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_04: Absolutely.
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so Mark had a newborn baby to take care of, a four-year-old.
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_03: Otis.
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_04: And yeah, a very bouncy Labrador, um, and then a very poorly wife.
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_04: And we had the the midwives were coming out, you know, kind of daily, sometimes twice a day, um, and were um really, really good, also because I was kind of bedbound as well.
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_04: So where I'd had the um I'd had the injection because I'm um I've got oneg blood, so I had to have the um injections.
• 55:40
  SPEAKER_04: Can't for the life of me remember what they do.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_04: Do you mean like the blood thinning blood thinning injections or uh so the ones that you have to have, if you are oneg, yeah, you have high risk of miscarriage.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_02: Right, okay.
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_04: Um, because your body can just be like, what is this?
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_02: Fine, okay.
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_04: Um so you have to have injections throughout your pregnancy and even afterwards.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_04: I'll have to find out my name like that.
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_04: It's been a it's been a long time.
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_04: But essentially, um, one of them um had resulted in quite a nasty hematoma on on I think it was my leg.
• 56:19
  SPEAKER_04: Um and um so they were then concerned about that.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_04: And back then you didn't have you weren't just automatic.
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_04: I think it's very standard now to be kind of prescribed blood thinners, you weren't really back then.
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_04: Not back then, no, so which is a blessing and a curse, because obviously the risks are huge, um, but obviously also taking the blood thinners is not nice, no, it's not fun, is it?
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_04: No, so had all of that, I was just very unwell.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, people wanted to come and see Freya, um, and I you know, I think I was just in a really vulnerable kind of place and just felt very again very trapped.
• 57:02
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 57:02
  SPEAKER_04: So whilst I bonded with her, it was very hard on me mentally.
• 57:07
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_04: Um and just really just didn't want to say anyone.
• 57:12
  SPEAKER_04: I just felt absolutely horrendous.
• 57:15
  SPEAKER_03: You you said to me you don't talk about it a lot because you're worried about frightening like pregnant women about it.
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 57:22
  SPEAKER_03: Why do you think it's important to talk about maternal sepsis?
• 57:25
  SPEAKER_03: Because it's something that I wasn't aware of until you, you know, wrote to me about it.
• 57:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_03: Something that I wasn't aware of.
• 57:31
  SPEAKER_03: So I I guess, you know, some of the signs of it, you know, I I know that you didn't really know what was happening, but I know you had it previously when you were younger.
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_03: Are there any signs uh of sepsis, you know, without creating that unnecessary fear for pregnant women?
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 57:48
  SPEAKER_04: So I think um I think things like feeling and I don't even remember feeling this at the time, and I guess it was hard because I'd just kind of given birth.
• 58:03
  SPEAKER_04: But so things like your temperature is gonna, you know, change, you've got um, you know, your blood pressure.
• 58:10
  SPEAKER_04: So that high blood pressure was likely the first sign there.
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and you know, the signs of sepsis, um, you know, other signs can be kind of feeling a bit confused.
• 58:21
  SPEAKER_04: Obviously, I've just had a baby, I'm gonna feel like a bit kind of frazzled, yeah, and not really with it.
• 58:27
  SPEAKER_04: So they were very much masked.
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I've had so altogether I've had sepsis three times in my life.
• 58:34
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so just unfortunate, like it's not, you know, it's not a case of you have it once, and you know, but just unfortunate.
• 58:41
  SPEAKER_04: If I have an infection, it just goes from naught to you know a hundred.
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_04: And I think there, so kind of yeah, confusion, uh feeling genuine, you know, genuinely kind of unwell, yeah, as well.
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and then kind of at that point, that's probably where you need to kind of get you, you know, have some observations done.
• 59:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 59:02
  SPEAKER_04: Um all sounds very basic and very, you know, that could be a virus or that could be any kind of like infection.
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_04: Um it's just uh it's always worth getting checked out.
• 59:12
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, always save your life.
• 59:14
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, absolutely.
• 59:15
  SPEAKER_04: And it can it can it's so quick.
• 59:19
  SPEAKER_03: Um You said afterwards you'd never go through pregnancy and birth again.
• 59:25
  SPEAKER_03: Was that an easy decision for you?
• 59:29
  SPEAKER_04: No.
• 59:29
  SPEAKER_04: No, no.
• 59:31
  SPEAKER_04: I think um I upon kind of my discharge from the hospital with Freya, I wasn't treated incredibly well.
• 59:44
  SPEAKER_04: Um and for legal reasons can't really say much else about that.
• 59:49
  SPEAKER_04: But um I am very proud of again being 23 and uh advocating for myself.
• 59:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 59:56
  SPEAKER_03: Good for you.
• 59:57
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 59:58
  SPEAKER_03: Because there's a lot of women in that position they don't and they they feel like they can't, you know.
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and also shout out to Mark for being the supportive husband, because I'm sure that he it just must he must have been absolutely terrified.
• 1:00:10
  SPEAKER_04: And he's he again is very calm in a crisis, but he, you know, he must have been so scared.
• 1:00:18
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, and we've spoken about it since, and he said he was, but he just takes it in his ride.
• 1:00:22
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, he's just I mean, we've you know, in 20 years, we've been through so much, but he always is just super calm, yeah, super pragmatic to a point it's annoying.
• 1:00:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I know.
• 1:00:33
  SPEAKER_03: Why can't we be so realistic about break with me, man?
• 1:00:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, come on.
• 1:00:37
  SPEAKER_03: That's what he's very much like.
• 1:00:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, just have a breakdown.
• 1:00:40
  SPEAKER_04: Don't don't give me, you know, really good convictions.
• 1:00:49
  SPEAKER_03: No, yeah, understood.
• 1:00:51
  SPEAKER_03: Well, shout out Mark, he's you know, I know him personally, he's a great guy.
• 1:00:55
  SPEAKER_03: Um let's talk about motherhood now, yeah, because the kids are very different.
• 1:01:00
  SPEAKER_03: So Fred is 14, yeah, and Luca is 18.
• 1:01:03
  SPEAKER_03: He's a he's an adult when I just want you to know that he's an adult.
• 1:01:06
  SPEAKER_04: That was that was the that was the kind of the cabin of coming on here.
• 1:01:10
  SPEAKER_04: He was like, make sure you mention that I'm an actual adult because whilst he is still a teenager, um, he doesn't like that term because he's an adult now.
• 1:01:18
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, so he just wants everyone to know that.
• 1:01:20
  SPEAKER_04: Like, great, okay.
• 1:01:22
  SPEAKER_03: Um you told me a little bit about them.
• 1:01:24
  SPEAKER_03: So Frey's 14 and she wants to work in motorsport.
• 1:01:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, marry an F1 driver.
• 1:01:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, I love that.
• 1:01:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and she will.
• 1:01:30
  SPEAKER_03: She absolutely that termination comes from.
• 1:01:33
  SPEAKER_03: Um me, yeah, yeah, 100%.
• 1:01:35
  SPEAKER_03: Even now, in the last hour of me told you, I know it's come from you.
• 1:01:40
  SPEAKER_03: Um and Luke is 18 and he's just joined the fire service as an uncle firefighter.
• 1:01:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, what goes through your mind watching your tiny adult now, like out there in the world, you know, what tell me a little bit about that.
• 1:01:54
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, obviously, as a mum, it that is terrifying.
• 1:01:56
  SPEAKER_04: Just anyway.
• 1:01:57
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, it's it's so difficult because in my head he's still about 12, and I'm like, you're not you're not a real adult, like you're not not not real.
• 1:02:05
  SPEAKER_04: Don't be a fake adult look.
• 1:02:07
  SPEAKER_04: Like, come on.
• 1:02:08
  SPEAKER_04: Um, yeah, so shout out to uh you know firefighter Fullerton.
• 1:02:12
  SPEAKER_04: But he he is I don't know, he's very much like his dad, he is so good with people, just so good, and again, so you know, in a crisis, he's just incredible.
• 1:02:25
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, but whilst I'm super proud of him for being like that and wanted to go into kind of that career as a mum, knowing that he's out.
• 1:02:35
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, you know, even when he's just out in you know, his other part-time role, and just you know, or knowing that he's just he's out of out of the house, I'm like, oh my goodness.
• 1:02:46
  SPEAKER_03: You actually said something to me, you felt like you grew up with him, yeah, you grew up together, yeah.
• 1:02:50
  SPEAKER_03: And I love that, yeah, because you know, you're you're still young and he's do you know what I mean?
• 1:02:55
  SPEAKER_03: I love when you said that about yeah, just sort of being able to like grow up together, yeah.
• 1:03:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, um do you think all your experiences have changed the way that you parent now?
• 1:03:10
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:03:11
  SPEAKER_04: Now they're older, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:03:13
  SPEAKER_04: And you have to adapt and you have to change, and also think with different children as well, because you know, Freya at 14 now is very different to how Luca was at 14, they're different people, right?
• 1:03:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, okay.
• 1:03:25
  SPEAKER_03: And is there anything you'd wish you'd done differently as a mum?
• 1:03:30
  SPEAKER_04: I think definitely stop wasting time.
• 1:03:35
  SPEAKER_04: Just I don't think I necessarily compared myself to anyone else.
• 1:03:40
  SPEAKER_04: I think I've always been quite happy to kind of I don't know be my own person, but I think stop wasting time trying to prove a point.
• 1:03:50
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 1:03:51
  SPEAKER_04: And trying to prove that you've got it together because I mean I'm the complete opposite now, like I'm very open.
• 1:03:55
  SPEAKER_04: I'm like, I just win everything and I'm don't have a clue day to day.
• 1:03:58
  SPEAKER_04: I'm like, all right, we're doing this.
• 1:04:00
  SPEAKER_03: I believe other parents on the uh do that as well.
• 1:04:02
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:04:03
  SPEAKER_04: And I think I don't think and even I think even back then, I don't think I ever thought I was a great parent.
• 1:04:09
  SPEAKER_04: I think because I thought I wasn't, I think I really felt like I had to kind of make that up and and really try to kind of prove that I was better than how I felt inside.
• 1:04:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:04:23
  SPEAKER_03: Um moving on now, I want to talk about the neurodivergence, your advocacy and your identity.
• 1:04:29
  SPEAKER_03: So you talk really openly about it, so you've got a huge following on social media.
• 1:04:34
  SPEAKER_03: You've trained clinicians and you've spoken in workplaces about supporting autistic and ADHD individuals.
• 1:04:39
  SPEAKER_03: What do you think people still misunderstand about?
• 1:04:42
  SPEAKER_03: I know we spoke briefly about it at the start, but what do you think people still misunderstand about it?
• 1:04:49
  SPEAKER_04: I think kind of how it presents for people, it presents very, very different.
• 1:04:54
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, even within my own household, um, we're all neurodivergent, but we're all very, very different.
• 1:05:01
  SPEAKER_04: Like um, so even those of us again in our house that share the same diagnosis looks very, very different.
• 1:05:10
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:05:10
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and obviously we're gonna have similarities because we're related, yeah.
• 1:05:15
  SPEAKER_04: Or um I I think it's sometimes when you know, like I've spent a long time trying to unmask, and I very much have got to a good place with kind of being autistic, and I'm much more kind of out there with that.
• 1:05:32
  SPEAKER_04: And I think sometimes that can be a I think because it's a little less obvious, I feel a bit more comfortable, yeah.
• 1:05:40
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and definitely less obvious than what people expect.
• 1:05:43
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, you know, they see that I can hold a conversation, I can make eye contact.
• 1:05:47
  SPEAKER_04: I'm like, yeah, but spend a bit more time with me or put me in a stressful situation, you're gonna see that kind of that scaffolding around me fall apart.
• 1:05:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:05:56
  SPEAKER_04: So, or if I'm just not in a comfortable situation, like if you put Me in front of a stranger and I don't feel comfortable.
• 1:06:03
  SPEAKER_04: Like you would like, obviously, I'm chatting to you, I know you.
• 1:06:06
  SPEAKER_04: Do you feel comfortable?
• 1:06:07
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, I think I do.
• 1:06:08
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, carry on.
• 1:06:15
  SPEAKER_04: Are you feeling awkward?
• 1:06:19
  SPEAKER_04: You absolutely do.
• 1:06:20
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:06:21
  SPEAKER_04: And that's such a skill, honestly.
• 1:06:23
  SPEAKER_04: But I think I I I still very much master ADHD.
• 1:06:29
  SPEAKER_04: Like, you know, I can I can be very reserved.
• 1:06:35
  SPEAKER_04: I'm definitely kind of uh I suppose like an extroverted introvert.
• 1:06:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:06:40
  SPEAKER_04: Um if I'm yeah, like if I'm comfortable, then you know, I'm there cackling away and just bouncing from subject to subject.
• 1:06:49
  SPEAKER_04: Um just again that pure determination, just like right, I've got a goal, I want it done yesterday, kind of great, but I can still I'm very conscious that I can be quite an intense person, and like I've spent a long time making myself smaller.
• 1:07:08
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and see, I'm already kind of digressing from your actual question.
• 1:07:11
  SPEAKER_04: Go right, honestly, go for it.
• 1:07:13
  SPEAKER_04: You know, going with the vibes here.
• 1:07:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:07:17
  SPEAKER_04: So I it's something I'm still kind of working on.
• 1:07:21
  SPEAKER_04: It's definitely a work in progress, and I'm years into this journey, so um, I'm very, I think, in a privileged position, just in terms of kind of like my background, both kind of professionally and just kind of being in that world of again accidental kind of advocacy.
• 1:07:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:07:37
  SPEAKER_04: But I think what people one of the biggest things people don't realise is how much it can affect you.
• 1:07:44
  SPEAKER_04: There are, whilst I can show up, you know, people listening uh, you know, might again think, oh, she definitely doesn't have her shit together, but she sounds alright, like she works, she parents, you know, she studies, she's an idiot, and she's also running a marathon.
• 1:08:00
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, that's pure delusion, isn't it?
• 1:08:02
  SPEAKER_04: Um I'm coming to that.
• 1:08:03
  SPEAKER_04: I'm coming to it.
• 1:08:05
  SPEAKER_03: Honestly, when I show up, I was like, fuck off.
• 1:08:08
  SPEAKER_03: This girl is so busy.
• 1:08:10
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, she literally, like, I yeah, no, we're gonna get into it.
• 1:08:13
  SPEAKER_04: Anyway, sorry.
• 1:08:14
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that I think you know, there are like you know, it affects me daily, and on top of being autistic and ADHD, I'm also um dyspractic as well.
• 1:08:26
  SPEAKER_04: So that comes, I mean, people think, oh, you're clumsy.
• 1:08:29
  SPEAKER_04: I'm actually really, really good at sports.
• 1:08:32
  SPEAKER_04: Um because of that, I think that persistence.
• 1:08:34
  SPEAKER_04: And I think when I was younger, didn't obviously didn't know, so just tried and tried again.
• 1:08:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but determining it, pure determination.
• 1:08:42
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, pure determination.
• 1:08:44
  SPEAKER_04: Like, I'm actually a problem sometimes.
• 1:08:46
  SPEAKER_04: I'm that determined.
• 1:08:47
  SPEAKER_03: Um what do you like in Monopoly?
• 1:08:48
  SPEAKER_03: Is board game night hell in your house?
• 1:08:50
  SPEAKER_04: Oh my god, like it is I'm not coming to you for a game of Uno.
• 1:08:55
  SPEAKER_04: Do you know what?
• 1:08:56
  SPEAKER_04: I'm actually not a very competitive person, but in a team, so Monopoly, fine.
• 1:09:02
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, I can't speak for Mark the most.
• 1:09:06
  SPEAKER_04: He's super super chill, but put him in in a competitive like sport, board game, whatever it is, Mario Kart as well.
• 1:09:12
  SPEAKER_04: Although I'd just like to say for the record, I have beaten a few times.
• 1:09:17
  SPEAKER_04: I know that'll annoy him.
• 1:09:22
  SPEAKER_03: I can imagine that actually.
• 1:09:23
  SPEAKER_03: Don't ever let him be the banker.
• 1:09:25
  SPEAKER_04: No, no, oh, absolutely.
• 1:09:27
  SPEAKER_04: Like honestly, yeah, it's it's probably not the best best game to play in our house.
• 1:09:32
  SPEAKER_04: But I think, yeah, I mean, for me, it's not it doesn't show up in kind of competitiveness, it shows up in just kind of like stuff for for me or for other people.
• 1:09:40
  SPEAKER_04: Like, yeah, I know, like if one of my friends or family needs needs help and support, then I am absolutely determined to move heaven and earth, and I will be like, right.
• 1:09:48
  SPEAKER_03: That's an amazing trait to have though.
• 1:09:50
  SPEAKER_03: You should be proud of that, you know.
• 1:09:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:09:52
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so you're studying psychology, and you said to me that you'll be Dr.
• 1:09:55
  SPEAKER_03: Fullerton one day.
• 1:09:56
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I will.
• 1:09:57
  SPEAKER_03: What does that mean to you?
• 1:09:59
  SPEAKER_04: A lot.
• 1:09:59
  SPEAKER_04: I think it's super cool.
• 1:10:04
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, it's for anyone that is kind of works in that in that world or is kind of studying or has studied, um, they will know that the kind of to be a clinical psychologist it is incredibly it's one of the most competitive.
• 1:10:20
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but all I can say is watch me.
• 1:10:23
  SPEAKER_03: You know what?
• 1:10:24
  SPEAKER_03: Good for you.
• 1:10:24
  SPEAKER_03: I and I cannot wait.
• 1:10:26
  SPEAKER_03: I'll be your first patient, genuinely.
• 1:10:28
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you're writing a book about discovering how your brain works in your 30s.
• 1:10:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 1:10:34
  SPEAKER_03: Tell me about that book.
• 1:10:36
  SPEAKER_04: So it has been definitely kind of a passion project that I was when I first started writing it, um I was just desperate to kind of get it out there.
• 1:10:46
  SPEAKER_04: But I've I've kind of taken obviously life, as you can tell, with all my many, you know, things going on, has kind of got in the way, and I I don't want to rush it.
• 1:10:56
  SPEAKER_04: So um it has been almost finished for a while, but then there's just life happens and things happen, and I'm like this hard to go in there.
• 1:11:04
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely, yeah.
• 1:11:05
  SPEAKER_04: So I just want to I think when I first started writing it and what I knew about myself compared to now, I think very, very different people, and I'm glad that I haven't rushed it.
• 1:11:17
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but it will definitely be more kind of a memoir, um, and my kind of journey and experience of kind of you know, I think I've I've also got OCD as well, um, and not the good kind.
• 1:11:34
  SPEAKER_04: Um so you talk about that in the book.
• 1:11:37
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:11:38
  SPEAKER_04: So and I think kind of how that ties in with it definitely is tied in with kind of again that that postpartum depression side of things as well, because it's um I have the kind where it's like intrusive thoughts, yeah.
• 1:11:51
  SPEAKER_04: So really, really difficult.
• 1:11:53
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and and also how that comes into play like throughout kind of the rest of my life as well, and how that interferes with being autistic and ADHD and uh dyspraxia, you know, and how yeah, how that's kind of a big thread throughout as well.
• 1:12:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and then I guess Elephant in the Room, London Marathon taught me about that, like because I saw it and I was like, What?
• 1:12:20
  SPEAKER_03: I am also insane in your social media on your social media, you look like you're like, I don't know why I'm doing this.
• 1:12:27
  SPEAKER_03: You're like, I'm not, yeah.
• 1:12:29
  SPEAKER_03: Tell me about it because I'm not running, it's so boring.
• 1:12:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, boring.
• 1:12:33
  SPEAKER_04: Were you a runner before you start could not a couple months ago couldn't even run to the end of the drive?
• 1:12:38
  SPEAKER_04: I'm like Phoebe from Friends, yeah.
• 1:12:39
  SPEAKER_04: Or Kermit the Frog.
• 1:12:41
  SPEAKER_04: I'm very, you know, so if you see me running around, just flapping just just ignore me, like I'm just in my own world.
• 1:12:47
  SPEAKER_03: What made you want to do it?
• 1:12:49
  SPEAKER_04: So um I lost my dad last year, suddenly.
• 1:12:52
  SPEAKER_04: Um he was the strongest man that I knew.
• 1:12:54
  SPEAKER_04: He was a carpenter for nearly 50 years, and unfortunately we lost him to cardiac arrest.
• 1:12:59
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so it turned our world upside down.
• 1:13:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:13:02
  SPEAKER_04: Um and I earlier this year, and I do it every year because I'm just, you know, I just love seeing people kind of succeed, seeing people happy.
• 1:13:15
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and I always watch the videos from the London Marathon, like on TikTok or whatever, and I'm like, oh my god, that's amazing.
• 1:13:22
  SPEAKER_04: So this idiot thought, do you know what?
• 1:13:25
  SPEAKER_04: I'm just gonna apply for a charity place, thinking there is no way I'll I'll I'll get a place anyway.
• 1:13:34
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm midset in the gym.
• 1:13:36
  SPEAKER_04: Um and a couple of months ago, and I get um I get a call, and the poor guy next to me on the machine next to me, oh my god, because I'm there, got my headphones on on a c you know, on this call, and I'm there like sobbing.
• 1:13:51
  SPEAKER_04: Um they were like, Yeah, you've got a place.
• 1:13:53
  SPEAKER_04: We've read your story about uh, you know, about your dad, and we'd really love to offer you a place.
• 1:13:59
  SPEAKER_04: Um and then yeah, I was stunned, absolutely stunned.
• 1:14:04
  SPEAKER_04: So that's so incredible though.
• 1:14:06
  SPEAKER_04: What charity are you running for?
• 1:14:07
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm running for the British British Heartford Charity Foundation.
• 1:14:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and you've got like a given page just so you've got to be a little bit more.
• 1:14:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but just giving page, yeah.
• 1:14:14
  SPEAKER_03: Wicked.
• 1:14:14
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, I'll add it on to the end of the podcast.
• 1:14:16
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you so much.
• 1:14:17
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely, that's incredible.
• 1:14:18
  SPEAKER_03: Good luck to you.
• 1:14:18
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 1:14:19
  SPEAKER_03: I'm enjoying watching your training videos because it is funny because you literally look so miserable, and I'm like, well, it's not having a great day.
• 1:14:25
  SPEAKER_04: I've just won, and again, I think like my other content about like being autistic and ADHD, whilst there's kind of you know the raw, real truth, there's got bits of comedy in there, but I'm gonna be real, I'm not gonna lie and be like, this is great, because it's not it's so many tests to you.
• 1:14:40
  SPEAKER_03: I've ran is it 26 miles, right?
• 1:14:42
  SPEAKER_03: 26.2 miles.
• 1:14:43
  SPEAKER_03: 26.2 miles, and I loved it.
• 1:14:45
  SPEAKER_03: Like that's a lie.
• 1:14:46
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:14:46
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, everyone says like the atmosphere on the day is fantastic.
• 1:14:49
  SPEAKER_04: Absolutely.
• 1:14:50
  SPEAKER_03: But the training is I I I when is it when is it next year?
• 1:14:53
  SPEAKER_03: April, end of April.
• 1:14:55
  SPEAKER_03: So how is the training going?
• 1:14:56
  SPEAKER_03: Genuinely.
• 1:14:57
  SPEAKER_04: So I uh ran 7k the other day.
• 1:15:00
  SPEAKER_04: Go on, girl, that's wicked.
• 1:15:02
  SPEAKER_04: So the fact that I ran for an hour and five minutes without stopping is I can't I can't comprehend.
• 1:15:10
  SPEAKER_04: I cannot comprehend that.
• 1:15:12
  SPEAKER_04: That's amazing.
• 1:15:13
  SPEAKER_03: What do you listen?
• 1:15:14
  SPEAKER_03: Do you listen to music or you're podcasting?
• 1:15:16
  SPEAKER_03: Um I was actually listening to one of your podcasts.
• 1:15:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:15:19
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't set that question up, guys.
• 1:15:20
  SPEAKER_03: I genuinely wanted to know what you uh did.
• 1:15:23
  SPEAKER_03: That's exciting.
• 1:15:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah?
• 1:15:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:15:25
  SPEAKER_03: Well, you know, you can listen to your one next Friday, guys, Friday the night.
• 1:15:27
  SPEAKER_05: It's out.
• 1:15:28
  SPEAKER_03: Um well done though.
• 1:15:30
  SPEAKER_03: I'm really proud of you for doing that.
• 1:15:31
  SPEAKER_03: That's that's incredible.
• 1:15:32
  SPEAKER_03: And raising the money for the charity that's close to you as well.
• 1:15:36
  SPEAKER_03: I think you'd dad'd be really proud.
• 1:15:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, definitely.
• 1:15:39
  SPEAKER_03: Um, we're coming towards the end of the podcast, but I've got a few like hot questions, hot seat questions for you.
• 1:15:44
  SPEAKER_03: All right, hit me.
• 1:15:45
  SPEAKER_03: Are you ready?
• 1:15:46
  SPEAKER_03: No.
• 1:15:50
  SPEAKER_03: Um you said something I love.
• 1:15:52
  SPEAKER_03: You said motherhood is bloody hard and it's hard at every stage.
• 1:15:55
  SPEAKER_03: What does motherhood mean to you now?
• 1:15:57
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, everything.
• 1:15:58
  SPEAKER_04: Like, I know I seem like I'm a very busy person, well, probably because I am, but they are always like I will drop anything.
• 1:16:09
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, like they're my top priority, and I my favourite time is dinner time.
• 1:16:15
  SPEAKER_04: We still, I mean, again, as they get older, they're out whether it's working or at friends, you know, it's not kind of seven nights a week, they're eating dinner together, so that is, you know, but majority of the week, um with you know, it's such a special kind of time, and we're talking, I mean, again, very, you know, random conversations, but absolutely love it.
• 1:16:40
  SPEAKER_04: And it's our time to just kind of go for our days, ask random questions, you know, even if it's you know really inappropriate questions.
• 1:16:49
  SPEAKER_04: Luca, I'm looking at you.
• 1:16:51
  SPEAKER_04: Um the one that dives in with the questions.
• 1:16:57
  SPEAKER_04: Oh god, not so much now, but as a like especially especially as a teenager who would ask the most like the strangest questions.
• 1:17:06
  SPEAKER_03: So sorry, everyone.
• 1:17:07
  SPEAKER_03: That's the one at my door.
• 1:17:08
  SPEAKER_03: If anybody wanted to know, it was the Amazon man.
• 1:17:13
  SPEAKER_03: This is the thing about doing it at home sometimes.
• 1:17:16
  SPEAKER_03: Um so yeah, Lucas questions.
• 1:17:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, most inappropriate.
• 1:17:21
  SPEAKER_04: Yes, and I think that's one of the as I definitely say to people that have got, you know, like my kind of friends and family that have got kind of you know younger children.
• 1:17:30
  SPEAKER_04: Um it's not necessarily advice, it's just kind of like this, you know, that kind of like not like this is really hard.
• 1:17:38
  SPEAKER_04: It's one of the hardest things is is trying to keep a straight face sometimes if they're doing something naughty.
• 1:17:42
  SPEAKER_04: I'm not saying those questions are naughty or anything like that.
• 1:17:45
  SPEAKER_04: I know what you mean though, yeah.
• 1:17:46
  SPEAKER_04: You you've just got to be that sensible adult in that moment, and sometimes that's so hard.
• 1:17:51
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like technically you and Mark are still kids.
• 1:17:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean, yeah, in our heads, still teenagers.
• 1:17:56
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 1:17:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, um, what has being a mum taught you about being resilient, about resilience?
• 1:18:02
  SPEAKER_04: Everything um I think you know, on your hardest, darkest days, you've still got you've still got to get up, you've still gotta, you know, look after your babies.
• 1:18:13
  SPEAKER_04: Um and that I think even now the I always I mean I always say to Luca again, even though he's an adult, like you know, he's my baby.
• 1:18:24
  SPEAKER_04: That's you know, that's never gonna change whether he, you know, when he moves out or you know, whilst he's busy, you know, saving cats up trees, um, because that's all he's doing, obviously.
• 1:18:34
  SPEAKER_04: Um complete denial.
• 1:18:36
  SPEAKER_04: Simon's out.
• 1:18:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, complete denial.
• 1:18:38
  SPEAKER_03: He's not doing actual farmers, obviously you're not.
• 1:18:40
  SPEAKER_03: No, duh.
• 1:18:41
  SPEAKER_03: No, because he's 12.
• 1:18:42
  SPEAKER_03: Um really safe job.
• 1:18:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, because he's not even an adult.
• 1:18:47
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, go.
• 1:18:48
  SPEAKER_04: So I think, you know, it's just taught me, I think, everything about resilience, and and looking back, looking at the pregnancies, again, very different.
• 1:19:00
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, you know, looking at the births, looking, you know, and just thinking how young I was, and and that's not always a bad thing.
• 1:19:08
  SPEAKER_04: Sometimes that you know, there's lots lots of positives in that, but just looking back and thinking how much you know I as a mum have overcome, and you know, just as a parent in general, yeah.
• 1:19:21
  SPEAKER_04: Um and you know, being I think being in a position now to be proud of that.
• 1:19:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think you should be really proud of you and mum.
• 1:19:30
  SPEAKER_03: Um what's something you wish every new mum could hear?
• 1:19:41
  SPEAKER_03: What you know now?
• 1:19:48
  SPEAKER_03: What would you think they would want to hear?
• 1:19:52
  SPEAKER_04: Put that doubt in your head and tell it to be quiet and to sit down.
• 1:19:59
  SPEAKER_03: My final question.
• 1:20:01
  SPEAKER_03: So you've experienced post-part depression, stay in the cue, sepsis, neurodivergence, infertility, grief, and so many huge challenges, and you're only like 18.
• 1:20:13
  SPEAKER_03: Obviously.
• 1:20:13
  SPEAKER_03: Um when you strip all of that back, what does it be what does being Luke from Freya's mum mean to you?
• 1:20:21
  SPEAKER_04: It's my whole world, like it means everything.
• 1:20:24
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I watched I told you this would get me.
• 1:20:29
  SPEAKER_03: It's okay, it's fine, honestly, it's fine.
• 1:20:32
  SPEAKER_03: Take a minute.
• 1:20:33
  SPEAKER_03: It's a hard I think it's a hard question because you think back to all those things like I've just said, shrivel that back.
• 1:20:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:20:39
  SPEAKER_03: And you're mum, and you're a great mum.
• 1:20:42
  SPEAKER_04: I think I look at them, I still look at like even now, like I don't think hopefully that will never change, but I look at them now and I'm like, wow, we've we did that, like, like look what you know we've made, and you know, look at the people that they're kind there, I mean, they are amazing people, and you know, not just from the kind of careers and their goals and dreams that they want to have, but just you know, how they are, like, even if it's you know, a kind of a silly teenage argument or you know, as in directed towards us, you know.
• 1:21:16
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, or I just think, well, they're you know sharing their their thoughts and you know how lovely that is to see.
• 1:21:26
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, obviously teenagers can be very mean, but I think it's just it's just everything.
• 1:21:34
  SPEAKER_04: It's the best, I don't want to say best job because it's not do you know what I mean?
• 1:21:38
  SPEAKER_04: It's just like the kind of like that kind of calling, and I never felt that I was particularly maternal, but they you know, they are the people that I may have, you know, made them, but they've made me.
• 1:21:51
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:21:51
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, that's got me.
• 1:21:55
  SPEAKER_03: Well, thank you so much for coming on today.
• 1:21:57
  SPEAKER_03: You've been incredible.
• 1:21:59
  SPEAKER_03: Um I just said to you, you can come back.
• 1:22:01
  SPEAKER_03: I want you to come back because I feel like there's a lot more to talk about.
• 1:22:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:22:04
  SPEAKER_03: Um maybe about the London marathon.
• 1:22:07
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my goodness.
• 1:22:08
  SPEAKER_03: Good luck with it.
• 1:22:10
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna add to your donation page at the end.
• 1:22:12
  SPEAKER_03: And I I wish you all the best with the training because I I can do it.
• 1:22:17
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it's not I'm not a runner, I'm not even a walker sometimes, you know.
• 1:22:21
  SPEAKER_03: So fair play to you for doing it.
• 1:22:23
  SPEAKER_03: I think you should be really proud of yourself.
• 1:22:24
  SPEAKER_03: And shout out Freya, Luca, and Mark, um, because they're your family and you're you're great.
• 1:22:29
  SPEAKER_03: So thank you so much for coming on.
• 1:22:31
  SPEAKER_03: No, thank you for having me.